WiiGCWiiU

Comparing Wii U's Sales to GameCube, Wii

by Neal Ronaghan - April 22, 2014, 12:33 pm PDT
Total comments: 152

Spoiler alert: It is very depressing.

A season changes and another month passes, which means we likely had more confirmation that the Wii U is not selling well. With very few, if any, releases, the expectations from month-to-month are dismal. But exactly how bad? According to analyst David Gibson, a little more than 70,000 Wii Us were sold in March 2014. That means the Wii U was thoroughly outclassed by the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, which both posted sales numbers in the 300,000 range. That’s not a competition; that’s a slaughter.

Here’s the full rundown of what we know for each system (most are approximate numbers, not exact):

  1. PS4 - More than 311,000
  2. Xbox One - 311,000
  3. 3DS - 159,000
  4. Xbox 360 - 111,000
  5. Wii U - 70,000
  6. Wii - 28,000
  7. Vita - 10,000

Yes, the Xbox 360 is still beating the Wii U monthly. It’s not like the Wii U had much to offer this month (I defy you to name a notable release in March), but still: a nearly 9-year-old system is beating Nintendo’s latest console handily.

Let’s have some more fun with numbers. Let’s go back to comparable moments for each of Nintendo’s recent systems. Here are the sales from the Wii U, Wii, and GameCube from their second March on the market:

  • Wii U (March 2014) - 70,000
  • Wii (March 2008) - 721,000
  • GameCube (March 2003) - 165,000

Taking it a step further, here’s where each of those three systems were at sales-wise overall at those same points:

  • Wii U - Between 5 and 6 million units worldwide as of March 2014
  • Wii - About 25 million units worldwide as of March 2008
  • GameCube - About 9.5 million units worldwide as of March 2003 (Update: We originally had 14.5 million units for GameCube but we were mistaken. Thanks to all who pointed out the correction.)

People keep comparing the Wii U to the GameCube, but look at those numbers. They are not comparable. The Wii U is selling about half as much as the GameCube. And the GameCube is still a year away from its swift and quick collapse. The GameCube might have been in third place in its generation, but it wasn’t anywhere close to the complete and total bomb that the Wii U is.

It’s a broken record at this point, but the Wii U continues to underwhelm. With indie games getting delayed, little-to-no third-party support, and a swiss cheese-like first-party calendar, things don’t look like they’re going to get better. An optimistic goal is for the Wii U to maybe cross 10 million sold worldwide, which would put it on par with the Sega Saturn and the TurboGrafx-16. With that depressing news, the best bet might be to enjoy Mario Kart and Smash Bros. and join me in asking the stars “When’s Quality of Life coming out? Can I play Mario on that?”

Images

Talkback

Ian SaneApril 22, 2014

I would say this is depressing but I actually don't find it that way.  This has been a long time coming.  I've been jerked around by Nintendo enough over the years that I don't care.  The "real" Nintendo, the one I became a fan of in the first place, has been gone for years.  I don't see Nintendo at the end of their rope, I see the Nintendo imposter that took their place and I don't give a shit about them.  The real Nintendo got cancer in 1996 and died at some point during the first half of the 00's and was replaced by some pod person Nintendo.

The Dreamcast was depressing because Sega had seemingly gotten their shit together.  They were seemingly doing everything right and had a great product but failed nonetheless.  That's sad.  The Wii U deserves to fail so it doing so is no tragedy.

The one part I do find despressing is that I fear Nintendo will just give up on games.  They COULD learn from this but I fear they won't and that the Quality of Life thing is them leaving the traditional gaming market to focus on health related software like Wii Fit or Brain Age.  This should be the swift kick in the ass they need to get their act together but it probably isn't and that would suck.  I would be upset if there was a chance for the "real" Nintendo to return and they made no effort to act on it.  I would rather they try and fail with a Dreamcast then to just quit.

KhushrenadaApril 22, 2014

Man, this is like comparing apples to Segway scooters. There were way more apples sold this month than Segway scooters. What a surprise! Guess Segway should stop making them and come out with an apple cart instead. Here's a comparison for you. In the month of March, the Wii U sold more units than Xbox360 in Japan. See, making up comparisons to suit your agenda is easy. That's why I always compare myself to everyone and everything. It should come as no surprise that I always come out on top because nothing can compare to me.

PhilPhillip Stortzum, April 22, 2014

Quote from: Ian

I would say this is depressing but I actually don't find it that way.  This has been a long time coming.  I've been jerked around by Nintendo enough over the years that I don't care.  The "real" Nintendo, the one I became a fan of in the first place, has been gone for years.  I don't see Nintendo at the end of their rope, I see the Nintendo imposter that took their place and I don't give a shit about them.  The real Nintendo got cancer in 1996 and died at some point during the first half of the 00's and was replaced by some pod person Nintendo.

The Dreamcast was depressing because Sega had seemingly gotten their shit together.  They were seemingly doing everything right and had a great product but failed nonetheless.  That's sad.  The Wii U deserves to fail so it doing so is no tragedy.

The one part I do find despressing is that I fear Nintendo will just give up on games.  They COULD learn from this but I fear they won't and that the Quality of Life thing is them leaving the traditional gaming market to focus on health related software like Wii Fit or Brain Age.  This should be the swift kick in the ass they need to get their act together but it probably isn't and that would suck.  I would be upset if there was a chance for the "real" Nintendo to return and they made no effort to act on it.  I would rather they try and fail with a Dreamcast then to just quit.

I feel retarded for reading this post. You just seem incredibly sore, and the "Real Nintendo" nonsense (whatever the hell THAT means) lowered my IQ by quite a bit.

Nintendo is still creating fantastic games in multiple genres and multiple franchises.

Unless you're just angry that Nintendo stopped catering to you 100% of the time. God forbid it makes games for other types of people and not just whiny bratty gamers who cry if they aren't the center of attention 24/7.

Sorry, but this real Nintendo or this old Nintendo crap is stupid as hell. Don't even get me started and the stupid and tasteless cancer analogy.

Don't get too upset about that, it's just Ian being Ian. At the very least, he's consistent, as I've been around these parts upwards of 6 years now and he's pretty much always been that way.

You may consider this comparing apples to oranges, but if you start comparing apples to apples things look even worse.

Wii U is selling much worse than GameCube in a much larger market.  It's also selling much less than Wii in an expanded market that the Wii itself created.

What's worse is that Nintendo is really only half-heartedly supporting it.  It's doing as much as it can, I guess, but that isn't enough and everybody knows it.

ejamerApril 22, 2014

Quote from: Khushrenada

Man, this is like comparing apples to Segway scooters. There were way more apples sold this month than Segway scooters. What a surprise! Guess Segway should stop making them and come out with an apple cart instead. Here's a comparison for you. In the month of March, the Wii U sold more units than Xbox360 in Japan. See, making up comparisons to suit your agenda is easy. That's why I always compare myself to everyone and everything. It should come as no surprise that I always come out on top because nothing can compare to me.

So are you really suggesting that Wii U is a healthy console?


As much as I enjoy Wii U and want it to be successful, part of being realistic is accepting that what I want and what actually *is* aren't the same thing.

Quote from: NWR_Lindy

You may consider this comparing apples to oranges, but if you start comparing apples to apples things look even worse.

Wii U is selling much worse than GameCube in a much larger market.  It's also selling much less than Wii in an expanded market that the Wii itself created.

What's worse is that Nintendo is really only half-heartedly supporting it.  It's doing as much as it can, I guess, but that isn't enough and everybody knows it.

I don't think the market's that expanded from where it was with the GameCube. It certainly was for a while with the Wii, but I think a lot of that audience has moved on, which is a significant part of Nintendo's problem here.

NeifirstApril 22, 2014

The author knows that Wind Waker released in March 2003 on Gamecube, right?  That might have something to do with higher sales that month.  It also cost $149, which is still over $100 cheaper even after adjusting for inflation.

Nobody would argue that Wii U is a success, but if you're going to write a story on sales, provide a bit better-researched background information.

broodwarsApril 22, 2014

Man, the Wii U wishes it was the GameCube: the GameCube had BETTER better 3rd party support (despite having a far more dominant competitor in the PS2 and being closer in the timeline to that period when Nintendo WAS a tyrannical dictator over 3rd parties), better parity between cross-platform games, and had a software lineup that's generally beloved.

It's pretty clear at this point that the Wii U has no chance at recovering as a viable competitor to its competition: In less than 6 months, the PS4's already eclipsed the Wii U's total lifetime sales without Sony even really releasing its big titles yet (aside from Infamous). The Xbone isn't far behind, despite an even worse software lineup. Mario Kart & Smash Bros. may temporarily boost Wii U sales for a month, maybe two, but as no previous Wii U software has done more than that there is no reason to believe those 2 games will suddenly change that situation.

At this point, the best Nintendo can do is what they did with the GameCube and what Sony did with the PS3: dig in, build-up their infrastructure of 1st party developers, and release a strong lineup of 1st party games with a smattering of 3rd party partnership games that at least leave the Wii U as a fondly remembered system. Unfortunately, so far I see no evidence that Nintendo is making that hard (and expensive) sacrifices required to build for the future. Instead, Nintendo just seems to be spinning its wheels doing the same things over and over again...expecting a different result. I believe that's called "insanity" (or "stupidity", depending on your point of view).

Hopefully we start seeing some big moves from them soon. Despite my rather cynical views on Nintendo these days, I want the Wii U to be a system I have reason to remember fondly. I want Nintendo to surprise me by growing & evolving. They're just not giving me any indication that they've learned anything yet from the complete ass-kicking they've been receiving for the last 3 years.

broodwarsApril 22, 2014

*notices the double-posted word in his above post.* I hate our inability to edit Talkback posts. -_-

PhilPhillip Stortzum, April 22, 2014

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Don't get too upset about that, it's just Ian being Ian. At the very least, he's consistent, as I've been around these parts upwards of 6 years now and he's pretty much always been that way.

Oh, it's more that that is a common opinion among so many gamers, that somehow Nintendo "abandoned" them, despite having so much content for both those who don't play a lot of games and those who do. I mean, I won't do list wars here, but there's was a lot of so-called core content for so-called core gamers.

It's simply immensely irritating to read this misinformation from folks who want to be the center of each and every publishers' attention 24/7.

Kytim89April 22, 2014

While I am not ready to close the book on the Wii U just, there idea of the Wii U being the grand selling that any of its predecessors managed to be is a pipe dream. Although I am confident that the Wii U will surpass the Dreamcast's total sales, but it might not ever manage to beat twenty million units sold, perhaps it will fizzle out at fifteen million instead. As for placing blame, everyone else on this forum does a good job of pint out Nintendo for their faults and their guilt is certain.

Nintendo is really in the same position Sony was in last generation with PS3. Nintendo is actually the least conservative with the Wii U then they have been in the past. The streaming technology is Nintendo's blur ay and cell processor. It's costing them a lot of money. 

StealthApril 22, 2014

Sorry but these comparisions are apples and oranges. The numbers do not mean anything

lolmonadeApril 22, 2014

So…I'm one of those people who bought an Xbox 360 recently..I'm typically one to buy a system at the end of its life cycle and pick up a handful of exclusives I never got around to playing. 


Not saying Wii U's sales aren't horrible, just saying the 360 is catching more the "I may as well now that it's on its way out" sales (especially since some retailers here have been having good sales on them to get rid of stock, lately) while the Wii U is still the "new" system. 


Maybe that makes it worse...

PhilPhillip Stortzum, April 22, 2014

The Xbox 360 is getting more support than the Wii U, I would say, so it's not surprising.

the asylumApril 22, 2014

Its almost as if the casual audience has all but completely moved on to smartphones and facebook games

Now watch as we get not one, but TWO Mario Party games next year

ZSaberLinkApril 22, 2014

FYI everyone, the GC had only shipped 9.55 million units by March of 2003. Neal went and put the 2004 numbers... Come on NWR, don't spread ridiculous misinformation yourself...

Ian SaneApril 22, 2014

What's interesting is that right now I would say the Wii U has the best lineup of games.  The PS4 has Infamous and the XB1 has Titanfall but aside from that they don't really have any other must plays yet while Nintendo's first party titles ensure that if you bought a Wii U today there would be at least three or four games that would demand a purchase.

The problem is that the other consoles look like they have a future and the Wii U doesn't.  A console is very much an investment.  It's an expensive purchase so it's common to get only one and hope you picked the one that will get the games you want in the future.  With the Wii U it's all but certain that the third party support won't be there so unless you like Nintendo games enough to be willing to part with everything else, you're not going to go with it.  And Nintendo so far has been very slow with their releases so the assumption is that there will only be a handful of worthwhile games a year and there will be large gaps between their release dates.  That's a lot of compromise to ask a customer to put up with.

On a personal level, the second it was clear this was another Wii, I didn't want it.  I found the Wii to be incredibly disappointing and I'm not going to support Nintendo going in that direction.  So that just makes it that much harder for Nintendo to sell me a Wii U.  It won't take just a good game.  It needs to be a statement of sorts that things will be different this time and so far they have not shown that.  I don't think with the product they have they even CAN show that.

You can call the core gamer view of the Wii and Wii U "misinformation" but what it is is opinion.  And if that opinion is misguided or misinformed then Nintendo needs to improve their marketing to get a more accurate impression out there.  But I don't think it is inaccurate.  The third party support is terrible and Nintendo is slow to release their own titles.  These are valid complaints.

I don't want Nintendo to focus on non-traditional controls because I feel it compromises the responsiveness of their control schemes.  I don't want last gen hardware because it makes third party multiplatform support impossible.  Imprecise controls and poor third party support are completely valid complaints and Nintendo didn't address them with the Wii successor.  They can fix the controls but if they don't use the Gamepad then it's an unnecessary cost increase to the consumer.  And they cannot fix any of the issues that come with outdated hardware at all.  That's impossible to fix without going with a brand new console entirely so if this matters to a potential customer, that's a permanent non-purchase.

And one big part of it all is that I'm sick of Nintendo consoles having poor third party support.  They've been asking their customers to "please understand" this nonsense for 18 years.  It was one thing to deal with when it seemed like a temporary problem but as the norm, it sucks and it's unrealistic to expect people to be cool with that.  I think with each console more and more Nintendo fans hit their breaking point regarding this issue and Nintendo seemingly makes zero effort to address it.

Hey all - sorry for having the wrong year's numbers done for GameCube. It isn't 14.5, but rather 9.5 million units. Not quite as huge of a disparity compared to the Wii U, but still not kind of awful. Entirely a mental error and our fault.


I appreciate all the comments and I'm sorry if you think these comparisons don't hold water in your eyes.


My motivation for writing this is that a lot of folks tell me "this is a GameCube generation" when that isn't the case. The Wii U is doing terrible. It's doing worse than the GameCube. Market's might be slightly different. Games might be coming out at a different clip, but regardless of when Wind Waker came out or when Mario Kart comes out, the Wii U is doing worse than the GameCube.


As I said in the article, at this rate, the Wii U might be selling something more comparable to what the Saturn or the TurboGrafx-16 sold when all is said and done. There is no way to spin that positively.


If this is comparing apples to oranges to you, then whichever fruit is the Wii U is the foulest smelling and worst tasting fruit ever.

smallsharkbigbiteApril 23, 2014

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

I don't think the market's that expanded from where it was with the GameCube. It certainly was for a while with the Wii, but I think a lot of that audience has moved on, which is a significant part of Nintendo's problem here.

Depends on how narrowly you define the market.  Clearly more people play games today than did 5 years ago.  Unfortunately for Nintendo, Apple makes the casual gaming/multi-media device now. 

Quote:

On a personal level, the second it was clear this was another Wii, I didn't want it.

It's not remotely another Wii.  The pro controller is phenomenal, the gamepad is a great traditional controller with a screen, and Wii U isn't powerful but it's much closer to the PS4 than the Wii was to the PS3.  The biggest problem with the Wii U is a lack of games.  Nintendo has struggled to provide their normal breath of games because they weren't prepared for HD and terrible 3rd party relations have changed to non-existant. 

Quote:

Man, this is like comparing apples to Segway scooters.

What would be a better comparison then?  The two numbers that mean something are expected sales (9.0M vs. 2. :cool; and profit (negative).  There is no argument that the Wii U is selling well or selling as much as Nintendo needs it to. 

StealthApril 23, 2014

Neal Apologized for using the wrong numbers. Big of him

PhilPhillip Stortzum, April 23, 2014

I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.

So many articles, so many discussions as to why it's not selling, so many "look at how shitty these sales are! rofl" pieces that it gets to the point where it just becomes noise.

It's repeated ad nauseum, again and again, and it's just boring now.

It should be the clear that the Wii U is a flop. It should be clear that is a historic failure, and that Nintendo dropped the ball so hard that it went all the way through the Earth's core and out the other side. It's embarrassing how pathetic Nintendo's failure and mismanagement are. It's a humongous fall from grace between the Wii and the Wii U, and it shows to me at least that Iwata and his crew were picking at their butts and throwing feces at one another instead of coming up with an intelligent strategy for the system. The Wii U feels like it HAS no strategy. It's just throw stuff against a wall and see that it sticks.

So after the 455th article about the Wii U selling like water to a drowning Nintendo executive, it gets really tiring and tedious to continue to read about the Wii U's sales, only this time the discussion is worded slightly differently to fool people into thinking something has changed.

Nope. "The Wii U has sold like shit, and it continues to sell like shit."
That would be my headline, and the body of it would read, "The end."

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

I don't think the market's that expanded from where it was with the GameCube. It certainly was for a while with the Wii, but I think a lot of that audience has moved on, which is a significant part of Nintendo's problem here.

Depends on how narrowly you define the market.  Clearly more people play games today than did 5 years ago.  Unfortunately for Nintendo, Apple makes the casual gaming/multi-media device now. 

By "market" I was referring to the market for dedicated game consoles. If anything, it may have gotten smaller. A lot of people bought Wiis (and PS2s before that) who'd probably stick to phones/tablets/Facebook now.

the asylumApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Phil

I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.

So many articles, so many discussions as to why it's not selling, so many "look at how shitty these sales are! rofl" pieces that it gets to the point where it just becomes noise.

It's repeated ad nauseum, again and again, and it's just boring now.

but it makes me feel so good

KhushrenadaApril 23, 2014

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Quote:

Man, this is like comparing apples to Segway scooters.

What would be a better comparison then?  The two numbers that mean something are expected sales (9.0M vs. 2. :cool; and profit (negative).  There is no argument that the Wii U is selling well or selling as much as Nintendo needs it to. 

I think a better comparison would be Kings of England and buildings with Corinthian posts. When you compare the Wii U situation in that manner, then it just goes to show how offbase everybody is with this talk of doom and gloom for the system.

KhushrenadaApril 23, 2014

Edit: Sorry I made a mistake in that last post. I meant to say a better comparison would be Irving Berlin songs and the changing fashions of Aztec clothing in the 13th century.

ToraApril 23, 2014

Nintendo's finished.  Guess all their years of ass-hatery finally caught up them.  And with the 3DS doing worst than the original DS, I fear the worst for the Big N, which isn't Big any longer.

syn4aptikDave Mellert, Associate EditorApril 23, 2014

You guys are crazy, Neal is dead-on with this analysis.


Considering the surprising success of the 3DS and the inability of Nintendo to create HD games at a reasonable clip, I wouldn't be surprised if this is Nintendo's last true home console (although I could see a handheld that streams to the TV).

ToraApril 23, 2014

Also, Let's face it, the old Nintendo who grew up is gone.  Nintendo caught a virus of casualty and can't bring them selves to try on their products any longer.  Hell, they need help from 3rd parties to make HD games.  That aren't even in 1080p by the way.  The new Nintendo doesn't even try to be appealing, and the lack of support on their under powered, lackluster Console, which deserves to sell poorly to begin with.  Hell, even if it had support for it would still be a scam next to the other consoles, let alone PCs.

xcwarriorApril 23, 2014

DOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!

Yeah, I get it. Things look bad for WiiU. Not for Nintendo folks. 3DS is doing just fine. Nintendo survived Virtual Boy, and Gamecube. They're going to survive the WiiU failure as well.

I've at least realized now that Mario Kart 8 isn't going to sell systems. And hey, it's going to be intesting in July when we have a new president of Nintendo when Iwata is switched to a new position (No one is fired in Japan).

But folks, Nintendo isn't doomed. Nintendo hasn't lost it's way, they just forgot how to market a console. They still have handhelds down pat.

ToraApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Stealth

Sorry but these comparisions are apples and oranges. The numbers do not mean anything

How doesn't it?  It's more like comparing different brands of apples.  Some apples sell better and are better received because they have more quality, quantity and price ect.  Nintendo's console was already weak, and the stronger competitors are making it even hard for them to surmount adversity.  They can't even come close to their previous consoles which is sad, considering the Wii did so much for them.  May this be a kick in the ass so they'll change back to the Nintendo we all grew up with.

ToraApril 23, 2014

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

I don't think the market's that expanded from where it was with the GameCube. It certainly was for a while with the Wii, but I think a lot of that audience has moved on, which is a significant part of Nintendo's problem here.

Depends on how narrowly you define the market.  Clearly more people play games today than did 5 years ago.  Unfortunately for Nintendo, Apple makes the casual gaming/multi-media device now. 

By "market" I was referring to the market for dedicated game consoles. If anything, it may have gotten smaller. A lot of people bought Wiis (and PS2s before that) who'd probably stick to phones/tablets/Facebook now.

Those casuals went on to buy the big boy consoles.  Same will happen with this gen of casuals.  Eventually anyone who is interested in games will reach the point where they will own a PS or XBOX or PC.  Nintendo doesn't have the longevity it once had.  They need to stop living in the pass and face reality.  Their inability to do so has been their collective ruin.

broodwarsApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Phil

I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.

No more, I'd say, than there was a sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii's massive success during its heyday.

It's been curious watching these forums over the years and watching the rise and fall of the love for sales numbers among Nintendo fans:

GameCube years: "Sales don't matter! We have great games, and that's all that matters!"

Wii years: "It doesn't matter that Nintendo isn't making what we want! Look at all that money they're making, and that's all that matters!"

Wii U years: "Sales don't matter! We have...OK...ish...games, and that's all that matters!"

It's amusing watching how quickly everyone here seemed to love sales numbers when Nintendo was printing money with the DS and Wii, yet now despise and mock their importance now that the Wii U is a colossal, borderline-catastrophic failure not even Nintendo wants to make games for and the 3DS is kind of treading water.

Quote from: Tora

Those casuals went on to buy the big boy consoles.  Same will happen with this gen of casuals.  Eventually anyone who is interested in games will reach the point where they will own a PS or XBOX or PC.

I seriously doubt this. Nintendo caught lightning in a bottle, twice, being at the right place at the right time with the DS and Wii. They got in just before the smartphone and tablet boom and cleaned up with a novel idea. Some may have stayed and gone on to other consoles, but most of the audience that made Nintendo the second-largest company in Japan for a while has likely moved on to smartphones, tablets and Facebook games. Why pay hundreds for a dedicated game machine when the stuff they can get on the platforms they already have is good enough?

Quote from: broodwars

Wii years: "It doesn't matter that Nintendo isn't making what we want! Look at all that money they're making, and that's all that matters!"

Please direct me to these threads you're speaking of. People may have touted the numbers, as the winners in such things tend to do, but I don't remember many people saying they were all that mattered. They were used in arguments for why companies should better support the system, but lots of people had good things to say about what was actually there as well.

ShayminApril 23, 2014

I think the real tragedy here is the Vita doing 10k, or 1/7 of the total of the doomed console.

PhilPhillip Stortzum, April 23, 2014

I think two of the best games of the generation in both Super Mario Galaxy games, two Metroid titles, the return of franchises like Donkey Kong Country, Punch-Out!!, and Sin & Punishment, two Kirby games, a new 2D Mario platformer for consoles, a new Wario Land, a new Battalion Wars, a new Mario soccer game, one new Zelda game, a new Mario Kart, and a new Smash (I'm probably forgetting other games) makes it so those who say Nintendo didn't make what they wanted on the Wii look like total spoiled brats. Isolated incidents like E3 2008 and the lack of localizations for Pandora's Tower and The Last Story don't change those facts.

Of course, there's a lot of revisionist history going on with folks happy the Wii U is bombing, perhaps because these individuals actually believe Nintendo turned its back on them or whatever with the Wii (besides producing a lot of top-shelf content). Maybe even they're getting a sense of revenge over Nintendo now that the company is doing poorly, so maybe I'm in the wrong discussion here. *shrugs*

Also, yes, broodwars, I'd love to see these posts you're talking about. I'm sure your generalization of this forum's users and how everyone was saying the same thing is 100% true about sales mattering last gen but not this gen. Surely you can find them, since EVERYONE or a MAJORITY of people were saying such things, right?

broodwarsApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Phil

Also, yes, broodwars, I'd love to see these posts you're talking about. I'm sure your generalization of this forum's users and how everyone was saying the same thing is 100% true about sales mattering last gen but not this gen. Surely you can find them, since EVERYONE or a MAJORITY of people were saying such things, right?

Then go look. I'm not going to do your homework for you. That's just a general impression of how the forums were during the Wii years (which is all I have ever presented it as): a lot of gloating over sales figures and how nothing bad Nintendo ever did ever mattered, because at the end of the day they were still printing money.

Quote from: Phil

Of course, there's a lot of revisionist history going on with folks happy the Wii U is bombing, perhaps because these individuals actually believe Nintendo turned its back on them or whatever with the Wii (besides producing a lot of top-shelf content). Maybe even they're getting a sense of revenge over Nintendo now that the company is doing poorly, so maybe I'm in the wrong discussion here. *shrugs*

Yes, I am enjoying seeing Nintendo no longer insulated from the need to change by their massive mountain of money. I am enjoying seeing all those people sulk who were so sure that Nintendo churning out extremely safe sequels to half-baked Wii installments of their famous franchises would be the path to the Wii U's success. I am enjoying the Wii U's failure, because it means that maybe, just maybe Nintendo will actually learn to adapt to the marketplace and learn the hard lessons every other company learned 9 years ago.

And yes, I am especially enjoying that all those casuals they appealed to last gen left them, just as most of us said they would rather than transitioning into deeper experiences.  The Blue Ocean strategy was ultimately a failure, just as suspected.

MagicCow64April 23, 2014

Let's look at the bright side: we're going to find out what Nintendo does once it has delivered its worst-selling mainline console in history. I could see them doubling down at E3 and announcing a steady flow of software through 2015. Or we could get a Zelda Wii U bone and a huge shift toward QOL with hardly any new top-shelf Wii U games announced from here on out. Exciting times! Although really the (unlikely) best-case scenario here is that Mario Kart and Smash jolt enough juice into the system to get it back on a trajectory of 20 million or so lifetime, sub-Gamecube but not a Dreamcast or Saturn level of failure.

And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of shit that deserves what it gets.

xcwarriorApril 23, 2014

Quote from: MagicCow64

Let's look at the bright side: we're going to find out what Nintendo does once it has delivered its worst-selling mainline console in history.

Virtual Boy, just saying.

Quote from: broodwars

And yes, I am especially enjoying that all those casuals they appealed to last gen left them, just as most of us said they would rather than transitioning into deeper experiences.  The Blue Ocean strategy was ultimately a failure, just as suspected.

Blue Ocean strategy was a HUGE short term success, just not a long term one. If it had been a failure, there might not any Nintendo system right now, just handhelds. Even then, DS was a huge success thanks to Blue Ocean, and 3DS still has some of that.

Quote from: Shaymin

I think the real tragedy here is the Vita doing 10k, or 1/7 of the total of the doomed console.

What's a Vita? ;)

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: Phil

I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.

No more, I'd say, than there was a sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii's massive success during its heyday.

It's been curious watching these forums over the years and watching the rise and fall of the love for sales numbers among Nintendo fans:

GameCube years: "Sales don't matter! We have great games, and that's all that matters!"

Wii years: "It doesn't matter that Nintendo isn't making what we want! Look at all that money they're making, and that's all that matters!"

Wii U years: "Sales don't matter! We have...OK...ish...games, and that's all that matters!"

It's amusing watching how quickly everyone here seemed to love sales numbers when Nintendo was printing money with the DS and Wii, yet now despise and mock their importance now that the Wii U is a colossal, borderline-catastrophic failure not even Nintendo wants to make games for and the 3DS is kind of treading water.

Even when Wii sales were killing it, the gaming media for the most part focused on the lack of 3rd party support. Gotta focus on the negative, it's what people read.

I have fun with my WiiU, I'm sure 3 or 4 others on this website who actually own it do too. How about a little less bashing for the few fans it has?

broodwarsApril 23, 2014

Quote from: MagicCow64

And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of **** that deserves what it gets.

You haven't been paying much attention, have you? In the wake of the recent NPD numbers, I saw a fresh batch of articles from the so-called "Western game media-sphere" talking about how poorly the Vita has done. The thing is, unlike the Wii U, the Vita has a good library; fairly consistent software releases; and is a good value proposition between the PS+ games, the cross-buy support, and the PS4 remote play integration.  The Vita's a larger sales figure than the Wii U, but you wouldn't know it by all the software being released for it (albeit not exclusive software).

The Vita gets bagged on all the time, and it was getting those articles you claim don't exist long before the Wii U even released. It's just that, unlike the Wii U, the Vita's actually a good system. fired>

It's very easy to make claims when you don't have to substantiate them.

broodwarsApril 23, 2014

Edit (wouldn't bother noting it except it completely changes the meaning of the sentence): The Vita's a larger sales failure than the Wii U...

Quote from: MagicCow64

Let's look at the bright side: we're going to find out what Nintendo does once it has delivered its worst-selling mainline console in history. I could see them doubling down at E3 and announcing a steady flow of software through 2015. Or we could get a Zelda Wii U bone and a huge shift toward QOL with hardly any new top-shelf Wii U games announced from here on out. Exciting times! Although really the (unlikely) best-case scenario here is that Mario Kart and Smash jolt enough juice into the system to get it back on a trajectory of 20 million or so lifetime, sub-Gamecube but not a Dreamcast or Saturn level of failure.

And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of shit that deserves what it gets.

I don't have high hopes for E3 2014. I figured Nintendo's E3 last year would blow me away with surprises. Instead, it was a slew of solid games that we already knew about (save DKC: Tropical Freeze, which demoed to me as "DKCR 1.5"). I figured Nintendo's E3 two years ago would blow me away, but that was basically just Nintendo Land and ZombiU as the "showstoppers." I want Nintendo to blow my goddamn mind at E3 2014. I want to be on my plane ride home ecstatic for the fall and beyond. I just can't have high expectations anymore. That being said, while I'll go into E3 2014 with measured, borderline pessimistic, expectations, I will hold out hope for the surprise and the unexpected.

And the thing with the Vita is expectations weren't high. You're right; a lot of major outlets do gloss over the system's complete and total failure, making phantom statements about how "Vita sales are up thanks to PS4" that are unsubstantiated. The Wii U is a bigger target because Nintendo is so wildly off with their expectations. Sony's been real quiet about how miserable Vita sales are, but also, I believe the software attach rate for Vita is through the roof. I also know from talking to indie devs that Sony makes it very affordable and easy to port/make your game on Vita.

I'd like the record to know that if I ran Sony World Report, I'd likely write this same type of article for Vita. If anyone wants to contract me to write that for a Sony web site, I'm listening.

MagicCow64April 23, 2014

Quote from: broodwars

You haven't been paying much attention, have you? In the wake of the recent NPD numbers, I saw a fresh batch of articles from the so-called "Western game media-sphere" talking about how poorly the Vita has done. The thing is, unlike the Wii U, the Vita has a good library; fairly consistent software releases; and is a good value proposition between the PS+ games, the cross-buy support, and the PS4 remote play integration.  The Vita's a larger sales figure than the Wii U, but you wouldn't know it by all the software being released for it (albeit not exclusive software).

The Vita gets bagged on all the time, and it was getting those articles you claim don't exist long before the Wii U even released. It's just that, unlike the Wii U, the Vita's actually a good system. fired>

Except every Vita piece is exactly what you just wrote: noodling about how this gosh-darned awesome system doesn't seem to be doing too well, but dog gone-it it's awesome anyway! Completely different tone of coverage.

MagicCow64April 23, 2014

Quote from: NWR_Neal

I don't have high hopes for E3 2014. I figured Nintendo's E3 last year would blow me away with surprises. Instead, it was a slew of solid games that we already knew about (save DKC: Tropical Freeze, which demoed to me as "DKCR 1.5"). I figured Nintendo's E3 two years ago would blow me away, but that was basically just Nintendo Land and ZombiU as the "showstoppers." I want Nintendo to blow my goddamn mind at E3 2014. I want to be on my plane ride home ecstatic for the fall and beyond. I just can't have high expectations anymore. That being said, while I'll go into E3 2014 with measured, borderline pessimistic, expectations, I will hold out hope for the surprise and the unexpected.

And the thing with the Vita is expectations weren't high. You're right; a lot of major outlets do gloss over the system's complete and total failure, making phantom statements about how "Vita sales are up thanks to PS4" that are unsubstantiated. The Wii U is a bigger target because Nintendo is so wildly off with their expectations. Sony's been real quiet about how miserable Vita sales are, but also, I believe the software attach rate for Vita is through the roof. I also know from talking to indie devs that Sony makes it very affordable and easy to port/make your game on Vita.

I'd like the record to know that if I ran Sony World Report, I'd likely write this same type of article for Vita. If anyone wants to contract me to write that for a Sony web site, I'm listening.

Yeah, I don't really have high hopes either. Just trying to be optimistic! I think it's probably more likely that we'll see the beginning of the end of Nintendo's dedication to the home console space, lots of attention on Vitality Sensor 2.0, Zelda WiiU, Smash info dump, updates on announced games, and one big new title, one or two new small-to-midrange titles. For what it's worth, I imagine we'll also probably see Sony basically give it up on the Vita as much more than a spendy PS4 accessory.

KhushrenadaApril 23, 2014

Lordy, lordy, lordy. So much ado about nothing. Because that's what Wii U sales are, amirite? Hi-yoooo!

It's times like this and articles like this that remind of this article at Pietriots. You can click it here.. Sure, you may want to argue different points in it. But I think the last paragraph is what rings true with me the most.

But let's take a moment to look at some of the cray-cray going on in this thread.

Tora writes

Quote from: Tora]

Sorry Tora but that's a no.

Nintendo doesn't try with their games? Let's take a quick look at some of their franchises.

Mario - Had massive success and critical acclaim for Super Mario Galaxy. Repeatedly called innovative. (I may not be a fan but even I wouldn't say that they were being lazy or not trying with the game.) Super Mario 3D Land was a new approach to Mario 3D platforming that got more critical acclaim and is considered one of the top 3 games for the 3DS. The sequel 3D World has also been massively praised and acclaimed. Plus, NSMB U has been the best 2D Mario platformer released since probably Super Mario World. It just gets overshadowed due to the New brand aesthetic wearing thin. The franchise is at the top of its game.

Zelda - This one is all over the map depending on who you ask but the latest entry on the 3DS was also just critically acclaimed not only as being well designed but also for trying to shake up the Zelda formula with dungeon progression. *Gasp* Actually trying new things! I don't understand. You said they didn't. Skyward Sword has divided people but I work with a fellow who is a huge Final Fantasy fan and more of a PC gamer. Yet, he keeps urging me to get around to playing Skyward Sword and says its the best Zelda. I find it hilarious how he keeps explaining how great the motion controls are and the ways you have to counterattack. Nintendo also re-released a couple Zelda games in the Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time. In both cases, they redid the graphics and tweaked a few things about the games to give them more polish (although some people still wanted more). They could have just released them as they were already. Rayman 3D didn't exactly seem to do much to repolish itself. There have been other lazy ports to the Wii U while a better release of game has gone to the other consoles. But I'm sure that was 3rd parties trying unlike Nintendo.

Donkey Kong - DKCR was the return of the Country franchise and a hardcore game through and through. DKC:TF might not be a leap forward but it is still probably the better game and the DK franchise is at the best its been in years.

Animal Crossing - It just had its best version come out last year on the 3DS.

Fire Emblem - Its popularity has skyrocketed with Awakenings release last year. Interestingly, a big credit goes to the change of being able to have permadeaths turned on or off. Good thing Nintendo tried something new there.

Kirby - This franchise has been on a steady rise. Looking at the last 6 games released for it, the weakest is Squeak Squad. Canvas Curse, Mass Attack and Epic Yarn were all new ideas for the character. Superstar Ultra may have been a re-release but new content was added into it, it was up-rezzed and it is what I consider the best Kirby game made so definitely worth a play. Return to Dreamland is probably the second best traditional Kirby game made after Superstar. And there have been rumblings with Triple Deluxe that it could be better than both of those. Kirby is killing it.

Pikmin 3 - It actually got a release and tries new things and was also well received critically.

Kid Icarus - It got revived but has had an uneven reception with some praising it and others criticizing it. I'd still say it is the high point of that particular franchise. Maybe that's because it was made with little effort. Oh no, wait. That wasn't it at all.

Pokemon, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Professer Layton, may not be doing too much different in their franchises and opinions will vary as to which games are better in their series but they are all stable franchises and they do try new things. Right now, it just seems to be about passing judgement on something before actually trying it as evidence by the Mario Kart and Smash Bros. reception.

Could things be better? Sure. F-Zero was at a huge high when GX was released and has now gone dormant. Star Fox has been unable to get past its 64 version. Metroid is on a cool down phase. Yoshi can't seem to find a way to move past Super Mario World 2. The Paper Mario franchise is losing appeal for experimenting too much. Oddly enough, The Thousand Year Door seems to be the high point of the franchise and yet it's a very close copy to the original and may be the least experimental. Seems gamers don't always like when Nintendo tries.

Yet, there's so much more going on. Luigi's Mansion just got a sequel that is better than the original. The latest Mario Golf seems to have the potential to be the best in that series and it took almost 10 years for this latest sequel to be released. There's all the Mario Sports titles that could have new iterations released. The Mario and Luigi franchise got a new release last year. Advance Wars is dormant with the last one trying to change things up with a new cast and aesthetic. The Battalion Wars franchise was created from it. Nintendo even put in some new entries for Wii Fit, Crosswords and the Brain Age series even if you don't care for them. Pilotwings got a new entry.

I'm not going to keep going through every single game and franchise that Nintendo could be making games for right now. It's an embarrassment of riches that other game companies dream of. Yet, despite this and the cries of so many gamers for Nintendo to make a sequel for this or that, they also want new IP's which Nintendo has done (they're just never the new IP's people were dreaming up in their heads). That's a lot of ideas expected from one company. Thus, I'm not surprised that not every game released is going to be the best version ever. That's the cost of trying new things or working to meet demand. Yet, the fact is that with the Wii U and 3DS, we are seeing some of the best entries made in a lot of these franchises and to say that Nintendo isn't trying or needs to go back to the Nintendo of old is plain ignorance. There is nothing wrong with the current design of games.

(And I didn't even get a chance to get into some of the other bad points in this thread. Oh well. Tomorrow is another day.)

PhilPhillip Stortzum, April 23, 2014

Then go look. I'm not going to do your homework for you. That's just a general impression of how the forums were during the Wii years (which is all I have ever presented it as): a lot of gloating over sales figures and how nothing bad Nintendo ever did ever mattered, because at the end of the day they were still printing money.

So you can't come up with any posts? If it's so common, then you should be able to get LOTS of posts. You're the one who brought this up in the first place.

Rather typical. I'd say that was unexpected if only I didn't know your M.O.

Yes, I am enjoying seeing Nintendo no longer insulated from the need to change by their massive mountain of money. I am enjoying seeing all those people sulk who were so sure that Nintendo churning out extremely safe sequels to half-baked Wii installments of their famous franchises would be the path to the Wii U's success. I am enjoying the Wii U's failure, because it means that maybe, just maybe Nintendo will actually learn to adapt to the marketplace and learn the hard lessons every other company learned 9 years ago.And yes, I am especially enjoying that all those casuals they appealed to last gen left them, just as most of us said they would rather than transitioning into deeper experiences.  The Blue Ocean strategy was ultimately a failure, just as suspected.

Kytim89April 23, 2014

When Nintendo dies the industry dies along with them. The issues facing Nintendo are not so much issues facing just Nintendo, but symptoms of a disease infecting the entire gaming industry as a whole. Look at Sony, despite the record sales and profits from the PS4 Sony is still bleeding revenue and could be on the verge of insolvency. As for Microsoft, the fact that the new Spider-Man game is skipping the XBone while being available for the Wii U tells me that Microsoft shot themselves in the foot with their newest console. 

broodwarsApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Phil

Rather typical. I'd say that was unexpected if only I didn't know your M.O.

My Modus Operandi? My modus operandi is watching fanboys twist themselves into delightful little displays of self-righteous anger and agony until they cease to amuse me. I don't go searching for posts to amuse you because I have better things to do with my time, like spending 3 hours dodging 200 consecutive lightning bolts in Final Fantasy X, as I did tonight. The moment these little forum wars warrant more than 5 minutes of my time, I'll put the effort in to placate you.

Seriously, I really think some of you are WAY too emotionally invested in video game companies, particularly Nintendo. "The old Nintendo is dead!" "So-and-so abandoned us!" How overly and pathetically dramatic... I legitimately cringed.

If you're going to refer to Ian, do us all the pleasure of addressing him directly. I don't make a habit of writing lengthy tirades about how Nintendo "abandoned me." Nintendo did what they did, and I moved on and found a much more continually rewarding primary console holder in Sony. I do, however, enjoy a good "I told you so," and I was saying the casuals would betray Nintendo years ago the moment effort was introduced into their gaming world.  Now that they have, I'm enjoying watching Nintendo scrambling to catch up with the rest of the industry after their 9 years of stagnation.

I made it quite clear earlier my grievances with Nintendo: they're a backwards, stubborn, lazy company that has spent the last 10 years putting the minimum amount of money & effort into their work to get by. They've been needing a good ass-kicking for quite a while now. I'm enjoying that it's here. They make things I enjoy, and I continue to enjoy some of them but I'm not Nintendo's cheerleader anymore. When they fuck up, as they often do, I have and will continue to call them out for it.  Out of respect and common courtesy for the rest of the folks here and their wish to bask in their love for Nintendo, I restrict my criticism to a handful of topics a day, and largely in the Talkback threads. Take your issues with Ian's continual 5 paragraph essays up with him.

broodwarsApril 23, 2014

Hmm...could've sworn I bracketed that quote correctly. Oh well, properly formatted:

Quote:

Seriously, I really think some of you are WAY too emotionally invested in video game companies, particularly Nintendo. "The old Nintendo is dead!" "So-and-so abandoned us!" How overly and pathetically dramatic... I legitimately cringed.

If you're going to refer to Ian, do us all the pleasure of addressing him directly. I don't make a habit of writing lengthy tirades about how Nintendo "abandoned me." Nintendo did what they did, and I moved on and found a much more continually rewarding primary console holder in Sony. I do, however, enjoy a good "I told you so," and I was saying the casuals would betray Nintendo years ago the moment effort was introduced into their gaming world.  Now that they have, I'm enjoying watching Nintendo scrambling to catch up with the rest of the industry after their 9 years of stagnation.

I made it quite clear earlier my grievances with Nintendo: they're a backwards, stubborn, lazy company that has spent the last 10 years putting the minimum amount of money & effort into their work to get by. They've been needing a good ass-kicking for quite a while now. I'm enjoying that it's here. They make things I enjoy, and I continue to enjoy some of them but I'm not Nintendo's cheerleader anymore. When they **** up, as they often do, I have and will continue to call them out for it.  Out of respect and common courtesy for the rest of the folks here and their wish to bask in their love for Nintendo, I restrict my criticism to a handful of topics a day, and largely in the Talkback threads. Take your issues with Ian's continual 5 paragraph essays up with him.

If you think you're spending too much time on these forums I can definitely help you with that.

smallsharkbigbiteApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Phil

I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.

So many articles, so many discussions as to why it's not selling, so many "look at how shitty these sales are! rofl" pieces that it gets to the point where it just becomes noise.

It's repeated ad nauseum, again and again, and it's just boring now.

I actually think NWR does a good job at staying balanced and not being negative. There are many other Nintendo sites that run articles every time Nintendo doesn't get a game, or doesn't do an event or a developer rails Nintendo and there is no thread on here. I think it would do you well to not take things so personally. Your first thread you called Ian retarded and his argument one of the stupidest. Those personal attacks are out of line, he didn't personally attack you. You can respond to his old/new argument without those attacks.

Quote:

So after the 455th article about the Wii U selling like water to a drowning Nintendo executive, it gets really tiring and tedious to continue to read about the Wii U's sales, only this time the discussion is worded slightly differently to fool people into thinking something has changed.

Nope. "The Wii U has sold like ****, and it continues to sell like ****."
That would be my headline, and the body of it would read, "The end."

You have to realize that your responses to this thread are part of the problem. If every one of these threads was 5 posts of people crapping on Nintendo these threads would die quickly. But instead it's 5 posts crapping, then 5 posts defending, then 5 posts crapping, then 5 posts defending until it's the most popular thread. You can't change peoples opinion. The internet is a wasteland of negativity. You'll be much happier if you realize you can still enjoy the Wii U and its games even if others don't. Nintendo doesn't need you to defend them, they are capable of doing it themselves.

SorenApril 23, 2014

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

I actually think NWR does a good job at staying balanced and not being negative.

Have you seen the last few editorials? This month we've already had 2 editorials slamming Mario Kart 8 and this one on Wii U's sales. 3 out of 4 editorials in April isn't really staying balanced.

Segnit BGSApril 23, 2014

Ian Sane, you must be the most diehard Nintendo fan to still be around this place in 2014.

To the younger Nintendo fans; the standards of support and loyalty you offer to Nintendo is much lower than the standards offered by Nintendo fans from the N64 era and before.

The reality is that the biggest Nintendo fans have been neglected the most by Nintendo. To not much drama or fanfare, Nintendo has turned its back on the real Nintendo fans, leaving behind either the most obscenely irrational fan or just the younger generation (say younger than 25) who have yet to tire of experiencing a half dozen sequels to an old concept rooted in the 80’s or 90’s while the rest of the world has moved on to full blown interactivity and fresh IP such as Minecraft, Dayz and Star Citizen.
These days Nintendo simply makes great games of old concepts but back in the day they pioneered new genres and tread on unblemished snow. Back then they were leaders in cutting edge game design and consequently at the forefront of charting the future path of interactive entertainment. Not just a Nintendo making quality games like today but a Nintendo demonstrating to the world that gaming need not play second fiddle to other industries in the entertainment sector.
Despite the derision and the scorn that old timers suffer at the hands of newer more energetic fans, at this point it would be wise for the revival of Nintendo to adopt an internal policy of a ‘Fire Ecology’, and stick to it no matter the pains it takes.
It took Disney 19 years to go from Lion King to Frozen and I don’t want to have to wait that long before I can see Nintendo to move on from just making fun quality games.

AdrockApril 23, 2014

This entire thread is hilarious. Do continue.

Quote from: Soren

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

I actually think NWR does a good job at staying balanced and not being negative.

Have you seen the last few editorials? This month we've already had 2 editorials slamming Mario Kart 8 and this one on Wii U's sales. 3 out of 4 editorials in April isn't really staying balanced.

We also have other types of articles, such as news, previews, reviews, and features. I encourage you check them out, because our editorial section is only one small area of the site.

Just this week, Justin Baker put up this really lovely NES Remix 2 review. It looks fun. http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/37200/nes-remix-2-review

Kim reviewed Disney Magical World at the beginning of the month, too. If you liked Animal Crossing, it's probably something you should check out! http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/37079/disney-magical-world-review

And hey, we had this interview with Prismatic Games go up. Their Kickstarter for Hex Heroes, a totally rad RTS party game for Wii U is ending today and is super close to the goal. http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/37171/interview-with-prismatic-games-on-hex-heroes

And man oh man, if you never played Guacamelee, you should read Zach's preview and get ready for a really well-made Metroid-style game! http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/hands-on-preview/37198/guacamelee-super-turbo-championship-edition-impressions

smallsharkbigbiteApril 23, 2014

Quote:

Have you seen the last few editorials? This month we've already had 2 editorials slamming Mario Kart 8 and this one on Wii U's sales. 3 out of 4 editorials in April isn't really staying balanced.

One month is the determination of balance?  I guess I think their are different levels of negativity. The MK gameplay argument wasnt really negative to me. The article says MK looks amazing but it is disappointing that the gamepad usage is worse than Sonic Transformed had. It looks like fact to me that the gamepad will have worse usage than transformed so I don't really see the article as negative/controversial.

This article isn't even that bad. Mostly sales facts with an opinion than sales are dissapointing. Had the author opined the that Nintendo was failing or what they were doing wrong I could see this as a negative piece but that's not in here.

The only one I think is overtly negative is the MK lazy article. Calling a game lazy before it's released is pretty bold.

Quote from: NWR_Neal

We also have other types of articles, such as news, previews, reviews, and features. I encourage you check them out, because our editorial section is only one small area of the site.

Just this week, Justin Baker put up this really lovely NES Remix 2 review. It looks fun. http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/37200/nes-remix-2-review

Kim reviewed Disney Magical World at the beginning of the month, too. If you liked Animal Crossing, it's probably something you should check out! http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/review/37079/disney-magical-world-review

And hey, we had this interview with Prismatic Games go up. Their Kickstarter for Hex Heroes, a totally rad RTS party game for Wii U is ending today and is super close to the goal. http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/37171/interview-with-prismatic-games-on-hex-heroes

And man oh man, if you never played Guacamelee, you should read Zach's preview and get ready for a really well-made Metroid-style game! http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/hands-on-preview/37198/guacamelee-super-turbo-championship-edition-impressions

DROPS THE MIC

KhushrenadaApril 23, 2014

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: Phil

I must also say that there is sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii U's massive failure.

No more, I'd say, than there was a sick, almost perverse obsession with the Wii's massive success during its heyday.

It's been curious watching these forums over the years and watching the rise and fall of the love for sales numbers among Nintendo fans:

GameCube years: "Sales don't matter! We have great games, and that's all that matters!"

Wii years: "It doesn't matter that Nintendo isn't making what we want! Look at all that money they're making, and that's all that matters!"

Wii U years: "Sales don't matter! We have...OK...ish...games, and that's all that matters!"

It's amusing watching how quickly everyone here seemed to love sales numbers when Nintendo was printing money with the DS and Wii, yet now despise and mock their importance now that the Wii U is a colossal, borderline-catastrophic failure not even Nintendo wants to make games for and the 3DS is kind of treading water.

Getting back to this point for a moment, I'll give you my perspective on sales talk from my being on these forums during this same time.

With Gamecube, it was frustrating that it just couldn't seem to get an traction or pick up sales especially when it did offer a lot of great games and gaming experiences. It was also frustrating that 3rd parties didn't support the console that much but it was just accepted that sales for the console needed to be better to get 3rd party support like PS2.

Things looked even worse when Sony announced the PSP coming to the handheld space and the DS was creating a lot bewilderment. But then, it took off and it signaled a first significant victory against Sony. Hype about the Revolution started getting people excited about the next round of consoles and maybe Nintendo could take back the market. However, with news of it being underpowered or having the name Wii, many people became pessimistic about it. Yet, it took off on release and signaled another major victory. Up to this point, I'd see things like Nintendo is the past, Sony is the present and Microsoft is the future. Being a long time Nintendo fan, it was great to see Nintendo kick butt and become market leader. Up to this point, it hadn't happened where a company losing marketshare was able to gain it back. Atari faded, Sega faded, Nintendo was seeing lower and lower console sales. For the first time, it showed that a new release of consoles could change the fortunes of a company and it really was a fresh start.

Or so we thought. However, despite finally acheiving a large marketshare and being market leader, to many Wii owners frustrations, 3rd parties still chose to ignore the console in favor of Microsoft and Sony. It is at this point that Nintendo fans started turning on 3rd parties and the fanbase started getting divided into hardcore and casual debates. Nintendo did what we thought was necessary. Gain control fo the market which should have brought back 3rd party offerings. However, since the console was different than what 3rd parties like to develop for, it was shrugged off to the detriment of many companies actually. We are at a point where 5 million sales for a game is considered a loss.

With this divide, sales figures were then used as a way to mock 3rd parties for not coming back to Nintendo when they could be making money instead of sticking with Sony and Microsoft and putting out low performing software. The sales figures of Nintendo games was used as showing what high quality software could do on the platform. And when peaople did want to complain about Nintendo going casual, those numbers were used to show that it was a valid and smart business decision from the sales it had gotten.

With the Wii U, those sales have faded obvioulsy for various reasons. But with the Wii's high sales not changing anything in regard to 3rd party support or gamer's opinions/habits, I think the love of sales figures as you call it has faded since they seem to have little bearing on the quality of software and the ability to attract 3rd parties.

As for your comments on games, the fact of the matter is Nintendo is still making great games and has done so through the GC, the Wii and now the Wii U.

KhushrenadaApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Segnit

The reality is that the biggest Nintendo fans have been neglected the most by Nintendo. To not much drama or fanfare, Nintendo has turned its back on the real Nintendo fans, leaving behind either the most obscenely irrational fan or just the younger generation (say younger than 25) who have yet to tire of experiencing a half dozen sequels to an old concept rooted in the 80’s or 90’s while the rest of the world has moved on to full blown interactivity and fresh IP such as Minecraft, Dayz and Star Citizen.

Although I probably will regret it, please cite examples of Nintendo turning its back and neglecting fans.

As for the world moving on, I had to look up Dayz and Star Citizen to see what they were. Star Citizen doesn't even release until 2015 so how have gamers moved on to it when it can't be played and Dayz has sold 1.8 million copies since release. Super Mario 3D World has sold 1.95 million copies. Doesn't look like an example of gamers moving on to me.

AdrockApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Khushrenada

Although I probably will regret it, please cite examples of Nintendo turning its back and neglecting fans.

Something, something motion controls. Something, something last generation hardware. Something, something sequels.

I'm pretty sure I just saved at least five people several paragraphs of ranting, but they'll probably write them anyway.

SorenApril 23, 2014

Quote from: NWR_Neal

We also have other types of articles, such as news, previews, reviews, and features. I encourage you check them out, because our editorial section is only one small area of the site.

The editorial section might be a small area of the site, but it's the area of the site that represents NWR's views on the topics they choose to cover.


Notwithstanding the excellent work done on the rest of the site, which you just showed. Top notch.

Quote from: Soren

Quote from: NWR_Neal

We also have other types of articles, such as news, previews, reviews, and features. I encourage you check them out, because our editorial section is only one small area of the site.

The editorial section might be a small area of the site, but it's the area of the site that represents NWR's views on the topics they choose to cover.


Notwithstanding the excellent work done on the rest of the site, which you just showed. Top notch.

We also have podcasts and other venues that show off our opinions, too. You can also follow us on Twitter for even more opinions. Additionally, reviews are opinion pieces as well, and any hands-on preview will have some sort of opinion in it, too.

I appreciate the kind words, but opinions come from more places than one section of the site that is probably one of the least populated areas.

Thanks for reading. I have no issues with you thinking this article and Alex's MK8 article are negative. They are. It's just that we are what we are. Sometimes we're more negative, sometimes we're more positive. The best part is that sometimes some staffers are more positive than others about different topics.

Ian SaneApril 23, 2014

You know why this sort of thing keeps getting brought up?  Because it matters in regards to Nintendo's future.  Something is going to happen.  Hopefully it's some reaction from Nintendo at E3.  Maybe Nintendo does nothing but in that case the market's rejection of the console will effectively kill it and that will affect Nintendo's future.  Something will happen.  Heads will roll at Nintendo or they'll try something different with their next console or there won't be a next console and they'll be handheld only or they'll go third party or they'll go in a non-gaming direction altogether.  The Wii U's fate will be of considerable importance in the Nintendo story.  This is a turning point, hopefully the nadir before a return to glory but it could also be the "jump the shark" moment that signified the downfall.  That's why we keep talking about it because it matters.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterApril 23, 2014

Man I really didn't think Wii U would perform under Gamecube numbers. I had such high hopes. Well higher hopes anyway.

On the plus side I'm pretty much getting what I want minus Soul Calibur. Oh and at the very least the Smash and Mario Kart servers should be lag free even if you are playing on the top of Mt Everest. :(

ToraApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Kytim89

When Nintendo dies the industry dies along with them. The issues facing Nintendo are not so much issues facing just Nintendo, but symptoms of a disease infecting the entire gaming industry as a whole. Look at Sony, despite the record sales and profits from the PS4 Sony is still bleeding revenue and could be on the verge of insolvency. As for Microsoft, the fact that the new Spider-Man game is skipping the XBone while being available for the Wii U tells me that Microsoft shot themselves in the foot with their newest console.

The failure of Nintendo is their fault and their fault alone.  PS4 is outselling even the Wii, which is what happens when you actually release a quality product with decent price, as well as guaranteed continual support.


People act like it isn't Nintendo's fault.  When in reality the Wii U is a weak product and deserves its weak sales.

ToraApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Khushrenada

Lordy, lordy, lordy. So much ado about nothing. Because that's what Wii U sales are, amirite? Hi-yoooo!

It's times like this and articles like this that remind of this article at Pietriots. You can click it here.. Sure, you may want to argue different points in it. But I think the last paragraph is what rings true with me the most.

But let's take a moment to look at some of the cray-cray going on in this thread.

Tora writes

Quote from: Tora]

Sorry Tora but that's a no.

Nintendo doesn't try with their games? Let's take a quick look at some of their franchises.

Mario - Had massive success and critical acclaim for Super Mario Galaxy. Repeatedly called innovative. (I may not be a fan but even I wouldn't say that they were being lazy or not trying with the game.) Super Mario 3D Land was a new approach to Mario 3D platforming that got more critical acclaim and is considered one of the top 3 games for the 3DS. The sequel 3D World has also been massively praised and acclaimed. Plus, NSMB U has been the best 2D Mario platformer released since probably Super Mario World. It just gets overshadowed due to the New brand aesthetic wearing thin. The franchise is at the top of its game.

Zelda - This one is all over the map depending on who you ask but the latest entry on the 3DS was also just critically acclaimed not only as being well designed but also for trying to shake up the Zelda formula with dungeon progression. *Gasp* Actually trying new things! I don't understand. You said they didn't. Skyward Sword has divided people but I work with a fellow who is a huge Final Fantasy fan and more of a PC gamer. Yet, he keeps urging me to get around to playing Skyward Sword and says its the best Zelda. I find it hilarious how he keeps explaining how great the motion controls are and the ways you have to counterattack. Nintendo also re-released a couple Zelda games in the Wind Waker and Ocarina of Time. In both cases, they redid the graphics and tweaked a few things about the games to give them more polish (although some people still wanted more). They could have just released them as they were already. Rayman 3D didn't exactly seem to do much to repolish itself. There have been other lazy ports to the Wii U while a better release of game has gone to the other consoles. But I'm sure that was 3rd parties trying unlike Nintendo.

Donkey Kong - DKCR was the return of the Country franchise and a hardcore game through and through. DKC:TF might not be a leap forward but it is still probably the better game and the DK franchise is at the best its been in years.

Animal Crossing - It just had its best version come out last year on the 3DS.

Fire Emblem - Its popularity has skyrocketed with Awakenings release last year. Interestingly, a big credit goes to the change of being able to have permadeaths turned on or off. Good thing Nintendo tried something new there.

Kirby - This franchise has been on a steady rise. Looking at the last 6 games released for it, the weakest is Squeak Squad. Canvas Curse, Mass Attack and Epic Yarn were all new ideas for the character. Superstar Ultra may have been a re-release but new content was added into it, it was up-rezzed and it is what I consider the best Kirby game made so definitely worth a play. Return to Dreamland is probably the second best traditional Kirby game made after Superstar. And there have been rumblings with Triple Deluxe that it could be better than both of those. Kirby is killing it.

Pikmin 3 - It actually got a release and tries new things and was also well received critically.

Kid Icarus - It got revived but has had an uneven reception with some praising it and others criticizing it. I'd still say it is the high point of that particular franchise. Maybe that's because it was made with little effort. Oh no, wait. That wasn't it at all.

Pokemon, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Professer Layton, may not be doing too much different in their franchises and opinions will vary as to which games are better in their series but they are all stable franchises and they do try new things. Right now, it just seems to be about passing judgement on something before actually trying it as evidence by the Mario Kart and Smash Bros. reception.

Could things be better? Sure. F-Zero was at a huge high when GX was released and has now gone dormant. Star Fox has been unable to get past its 64 version. Metroid is on a cool down phase. Yoshi can't seem to find a way to move past Super Mario World 2. The Paper Mario franchise is losing appeal for experimenting too much. Oddly enough, The Thousand Year Door seems to be the high point of the franchise and yet it's a very close copy to the original and may be the least experimental. Seems gamers don't always like when Nintendo tries.

Yet, there's so much more going on. Luigi's Mansion just got a sequel that is better than the original. The latest Mario Golf seems to have the potential to be the best in that series and it took almost 10 years for this latest sequel to be released. There's all the Mario Sports titles that could have new iterations released. The Mario and Luigi franchise got a new release last year. Advance Wars is dormant with the last one trying to change things up with a new cast and aesthetic. The Battalion Wars franchise was created from it. Nintendo even put in some new entries for Wii Fit, Crosswords and the Brain Age series even if you don't care for them. Pilotwings got a new entry.

I'm not going to keep going through every single game and franchise that Nintendo could be making games for right now. It's an embarrassment of riches that other game companies dream of. Yet, despite this and the cries of so many gamers for Nintendo to make a sequel for this or that, they also want new IP's which Nintendo has done (they're just never the new IP's people were dreaming up in their heads). That's a lot of ideas expected from one company. Thus, I'm not surprised that not every game released is going to be the best version ever. That's the cost of trying new things or working to meet demand. Yet, the fact is that with the Wii U and 3DS, we are seeing some of the best entries made in a lot of these franchises and to say that Nintendo isn't trying or needs to go back to the Nintendo of old is plain ignorance. There is nothing wrong with the current design of games.

(And I didn't even get a chance to get into some of the other bad points in this thread. Oh well. Tomorrow is another day.)

Hmm..Let's see.


Mario- I agree Galaxy was probably the best Nintendo game released since N64, and is the height of Nintendo quality, and still is.  3D Land not so much.  While the game was fun, it was crying out 'lack of effort' through and through.  Especailly with the boss fights.  God that was awful.  It was such a downward slope of quality when compared to Galaxy.  Please don't bring up NSMB series.  We've seen four of them in a 6 year radius.  The consensus is has been lackluster. It's not a special thing if you keep releasing old school offerings, it just makes nintendo seem stuck in the pass to people.  Which is why I think the Wii U isn't doing good.  Nintendo-halfassery might work ok on a handheld, where the quality is generally lower, but it's so evident in their console releases, espeically since the Wii came out.


Zelda- ALBW had the same problem with 3D Land and NSMB.  Relying to heavily on a tired formula, with only minor changes made.  Also, it's another example of Nintendo not utilizing their own hardware to its limit, which is never a problem for the other consoles.  Skyward Sword was even more tried.  It's like that slap on a gimmick to a game with the same stuff they've been doing for years and expect people to rave at how new it is.  And usually the gimmicks or 'innovations' are met with mixed response.  Again with the remakes.  Living off pass success.


Donkey Kong-  DKCR, along with Metroid prime, are some of the only Nintendo games with polish.  Though it doesn't surprise me seeing as it was developed in the west, and there is a completely different mentality in place.  RETRO actually tries to make their stuff deep and creative.  MP had 3 games in the series and it didn't start to feel stale IMO intil halfway through the last game.  DKCTF,  living off nostalgia once again.  When are nintendo gonna have the guts to release a real 3D Donkey kong game?  Is yet to be seen...Or anything open world for that matter...




Animal Crossing- Can't comment to much on this series, seeing as it's not a game I'm in any way interested in.




Fire Emblem -  Saying Fire Emblem skyrocketed is a HUGE overstatement.  Yes, it sold better than the older games, but I'd attribute that to the new art style, and more focus towards casuals as well as the marriage system.  It is still in no way a popular or crazy sucessful game.  Also, adding one new feature that should have been in the series in the first place is in no way any call for praise.  Last year, I remember people bragging about "oh FE:A did 200,000 copies in one month.  So impressive! Sony's dead."  I'm like if that's what you're bragging about I don't even need to say how stupid that sounds.


Kirby -  Kirby is a lot more daring than the other Nintendo franchises, seeing as it's comfortable in changing it's scope, but look how that turned out for them on DS.  Now they're back to making tired Kirby. 


Pikmin -  Never played it, but all I hear about it is people complaining that it's too similar and needs more/better modes.  As well as crappy DLC.  Not my words.


Kid Icarus - Sakurai doesn't dissapoint, but this game was mixed for a reason.  The controls where IMO, god awful.  It didn't feel right, even though this is the first thing Nintendo's got to a need IP in a while.




Pokemon, Smash Bros., Mario Kart, Professer Layton -  Smash bros has basically been the same, Mario Kart 7 changed Mario Kart a little bit, and Pokemon is almost an exact carbon copy.


Paper Mario TTYD wasn't experimental, but it was progressive.  If only Nintendo had natural progression to all their games, it would make their PR problem so much better.


I'm not saying they aren't making games, I'm just seeing lack of ambition in 90% of their products.  Especially went put next to Sony which are consistently making great games with new I.Ps

Quote from: Ian

You know why this sort of thing keeps getting brought up?  Because it matters in regards to Nintendo's future.  Something is going to happen.  Hopefully it's some reaction from Nintendo at E3.  Maybe Nintendo does nothing but in that case the market's rejection of the console will effectively kill it and that will affect Nintendo's future.  Something will happen.  Heads will roll at Nintendo or they'll try something different with their next console or there won't be a next console and they'll be handheld only or they'll go third party or they'll go in a non-gaming direction altogether.  The Wii U's fate will be of considerable importance in the Nintendo story.  This is a turning point, hopefully the nadir before a return to glory but it could also be the "jump the shark" moment that signified the downfall.  That's why we keep talking about it because it matters.


Hard to argue with this.  It does matter.  It's very hard to imagine where Nintendo goes in the next 3-4 years.

TriponApril 23, 2014

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: MagicCow64

And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of **** that deserves what it gets.

You haven't been paying much attention, have you? In the wake of the recent NPD numbers, I saw a fresh batch of articles from the so-called "Western game media-sphere" talking about how poorly the Vita has done. The thing is, unlike the Wii U, the Vita has a good library; fairly consistent software releases; and is a good value proposition between the PS+ games, the cross-buy support, and the PS4 remote play integration.  The Vita's a larger sales figure than the Wii U, but you wouldn't know it by all the software being released for it (albeit not exclusive software).

The Vita gets bagged on all the time, and it was getting those articles you claim don't exist long before the Wii U even released. It's just that, unlike the Wii U, the Vita's actually a good system. fired>

Just to note, that better system sold a little north of 10,000 units in March. If the market isn't accepting Wii U, it certainly isn't accepting the Vita.

TriponApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Tripon

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: MagicCow64

And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of **** that deserves what it gets.

You haven't been paying much attention, have you? In the wake of the recent NPD numbers, I saw a fresh batch of articles from the so-called "Western game media-sphere" talking about how poorly the Vita has done. The thing is, unlike the Wii U, the Vita has a good library; fairly consistent software releases; and is a good value proposition between the PS+ games, the cross-buy support, and the PS4 remote play integration.  The Vita's a larger sales figure than the Wii U, but you wouldn't know it by all the software being released for it (albeit not exclusive software).

The Vita gets bagged on all the time, and it was getting those articles you claim don't exist long before the Wii U even released. It's just that, unlike the Wii U, the Vita's actually a good system. fired>

Just to note, that better system sold a little north of 10,000 units in March. If the market isn't accepting Wii U, it certainly isn't accepting the Vita.

Referring to NPD numbers for March btw.

ToraApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Phil

Then go look. I'm not going to do your homework for you. That's just a general impression of how the forums were during the Wii years (which is all I have ever presented it as): a lot of gloating over sales figures and how nothing bad Nintendo ever did ever mattered, because at the end of the day they were still printing money.

So you can't come up with any posts? If it's so common, then you should be able to get LOTS of posts. You're the one who brought this up in the first place.

Rather typical. I'd say that was unexpected if only I didn't know your M.O.

Yes, I am enjoying seeing Nintendo no longer insulated from the need to change by their massive mountain of money. I am enjoying seeing all those people sulk who were so sure that Nintendo churning out extremely safe sequels to half-baked Wii installments of their famous franchises would be the path to the Wii U's success. I am enjoying the Wii U's failure, because it means that maybe, just maybe Nintendo will actually learn to adapt to the marketplace and learn the hard lessons every other company learned 9 years ago.And yes, I am especially enjoying that all those casuals they appealed to last gen left them, just as most of us said they would rather than transitioning into deeper experiences.  The Blue Ocean strategy was ultimately a failure, just as suspected.

I'm just laughing at some of the folks about being abundantly happy over Nintendo's failure. I sort of picture them in a dark room with no windows, with the only light in the room being the computer screen's glare from yet another Nintendo is doomed article, all the while laughing maniacally. Keep fighting the good fight, I guess. It's great when companies that champion gaming are failing! BWAHAHAHA! It's especially great to be happy with failure because you think a company should cater to you and you only.

Seriously, I really think some of you are WAY too emotionally invested in video game companies, particularly Nintendo. "The old Nintendo is dead!" "So-and-so abandoned us!" How overly and pathetically dramatic... I legitimately cringed.


Some people actually want to play Nintendo games and don't feel justified buying a weak over priced product.  It's the same thing that happened with the PS3, but Nintendo doesn't give a shit to try and fix the Wii U.  Instead they'll just release their planned games and fade away without attempting to salvage it (Mark my words) even though trying to save it is also a lost cause.  Wii U discontinued by Q2 2015.

broodwarsApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Tripon

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: MagicCow64

And if you need any further proof that the Western game media-sphere has it out for Nintendo, ask yourself where all the "Vita is Doomed" articles are at. Now there's a truly dead device that the NeoGaf-type crowd insists is just super-duper awesome and there's some kind of conspiracy of confusion preventing it from taking off, whereas the Wii U is simply a piece of **** that deserves what it gets.

You haven't been paying much attention, have you? In the wake of the recent NPD numbers, I saw a fresh batch of articles from the so-called "Western game media-sphere" talking about how poorly the Vita has done. The thing is, unlike the Wii U, the Vita has a good library; fairly consistent software releases; and is a good value proposition between the PS+ games, the cross-buy support, and the PS4 remote play integration.  The Vita's a larger sales figure than the Wii U, but you wouldn't know it by all the software being released for it (albeit not exclusive software).

The Vita gets bagged on all the time, and it was getting those articles you claim don't exist long before the Wii U even released. It's just that, unlike the Wii U, the Vita's actually a good system. fired>

Just to note, that better system sold a little north of 10,000 units in March. If the market isn't accepting Wii U, it certainly isn't accepting the Vita.

And I don't believe I ever said the market was accepting the Vita. In fact, I believe I was stating the very opposite. That said, as a Vita owner I don't regret for a moment my purchase of the system. By contrast, I'm rapidly regretting my Wii U purchase, as it's increasingly clear that Nintendo never had any idea what they were going to do with the thing other than churn out 2D mascot platformers.

On a sidenote, this is rapidly becoming my most anticipated E3 in years. The stakes are so high for all 3 of the major platform holders, and we know so little about games coming out this Fall and beyond. It should be a fun show, provided Nintendo actually decides to "show up" this year with something other than a weak, barely functional Direct and a modest floor presence.

AdrockApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Tora

Instead they'll just release their planned games and fade away without attempting to salvage it (Mark my words) even though trying to save it is also a lost cause.  Wii U discontinued by Q2 2015.

Oh, I see we have another person predicting an early death for Wii U. It's "by Q2 2015" this time which is April 1. Care to make a wager? The last guy chickened out. Will you?

Luigi DudeApril 23, 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXU8w336oGs

Might as well just put this clip in everyone of these threads since the idea Nintendo will discontinue the Wii U anytime soon is just as laughable.

Once again, this isn't early 2000 Sega who was literally broke with no cash left to spend and needed to be bought by Sammy just to survive.  Nintendo has the money to actually continue the system.  The fact there's a Mario Kart 8 bundle coming pretty much shows they do care about trying to keep the system alive.

If there was any danger of the system being discountinued by early 2015, they would have released Donkey Kong during Fall 2013 like it was planned, and rushed Mario Kart 8 so it was released before the end of March 2014.  Then Wii U version of Smash Bros would have been the Summer game and they would have gotten Aonuma to start cutting dungeons so Zelda Wii U could make a Fall 2014 release since they needed to do anything to boast Wii U sales as quickly as possible before this imaginary cut-off date of early 2015 arrives.

Mario Sunshine and Wind Waker show Nintendo can rush games out with a lack of content if they need to.  The fact Nintendo is not rushing there Wii U games so far but actually allowing them to take their time shows the system is still planned on having the typical lifespan that most Nintendo systems do.  A company that has no faith in it's product and wants to get rid of the Wii U as quickly as possible wouldn't be spending extra money to finish polishing the games for it if there was a near kill-switch deadline that the system needed to sell a certain number of units by that some of you seem to think.

SorenApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Adrock

Quote from: Tora

Instead they'll just release their planned games and fade away without attempting to salvage it (Mark my words) even though trying to save it is also a lost cause.  Wii U discontinued by Q2 2015.

Oh, I see we have another person predicting an early death for Wii U. It's "by Q2 2015" this time which is April 1. Care to make a wager? The last guy chickened out. Will you?

You just can't question that kind of wisdom. Wii U will be discontinued just a few months after Smash Bros is released. Bank it!!

ShyGuyApril 23, 2014

NWR: Were the news is usually late and the opinion pieces are usually negative!

The gaming press obsesses over the Wii U's failure like the tabloids obsess over Lindsay Lohan over-dosing.

Sorry, this just in over the news wire- Wii U sales are low and multiple mistakes have been made regarding the release of the platform. In other SHOCKING news, PS4 is outselling the Xbox One and AAA studios continue to close. 

kkl97April 23, 2014

Wii U sales have definitely been dismal compared to their previous consoles. However, if Nintendo wants to turn it around, I believe there is still a chance for them to do so. They will most definitely finish last in the console race, but I think they can redeem themselves by acquiring developers or publishing games that are not the usual Nintendo 'norm'. For example, Titanfall is not your typical Nintendo type of game, but I'm sure their system can run it if they approach or bought a developer that is capable of producing such games. But all this has to be done NOW. I always wondered why Nintendo never bought any big developers with all the money they have in the bank. With all the franchises that were available with the THQ bankruptcy, they could have built a bigger portfolio for themselves. It was good to hear Iwata talking about acquiring different companies. Hopefully, it will not be just japanese developers but also western developers. Most games nowadays take at least 2-3 years in development to be released so if they want to bring back some respectability for their console, it has to be done now.

Ian SaneApril 23, 2014

Quote from: kkl97

Wii U sales have definitely been dismal compared to their previous consoles. However, if Nintendo wants to turn it around, I believe there is still a chance for them to do so. They will most definitely finish last in the console race, but I think they can redeem themselves by acquiring developers or publishing games that are not the usual Nintendo 'norm'. For example, Titanfall is not your typical Nintendo type of game, but I'm sure their system can run it if they approach or bought a developer that is capable of producing such games. But all this has to be done NOW. I always wondered why Nintendo never bought any big developers with all the money they have in the bank. With all the franchises that were available with the THQ bankruptcy, they could have built a bigger portfolio for themselves. It was good to hear Iwata talking about acquiring different companies. Hopefully, it will not be just japanese developers but also western developers. Most games nowadays take at least 2-3 years in development to be released so if they want to bring back some respectability for their console, it has to be done now.

This reminds me of when a sports team is clearly not a contender and they start stocking up on draft picks and trading for prospects to rebuild for the future.  Nintendo should definitely increase their development since the slow pace of releases on the Wii U demonstrates that they're not up to par.  Ideally by the time the Wii U successor is released they could have a large enough group development teams that they could effectively support the console by themselves at first because you can assume the third party support won't be there.  I agree that they should also seek out Western devs and go for devs that make games out of Nintendo's comfort zone.  Nintendo should have high standards of quality but shouldn't feel handcuffed to only certain types of games.

But then they talked about the extra demands of HD development back when other companies were struggling with it so they should have been well aware of it and they still got caught off guard.  I still don't get that.  Was their talk just spin and they didn't actually believe any of it?  Did they think it just wouldn't apply to them or that the Wii U would so easily recreate the Wii's success that game droughts wouldn't matter?

nickmitchApril 23, 2014

I think Nintendo thought 3rd parties would fill in more of the gaps.

But yeah, Nintendo could really use this time to build their personnel numbers.  Honestly, buying some teams and letting them make whatever and throwing it on the eShop could be how Nintendo finds their next big franchise.

kkl97April 23, 2014

Quote from: nickmitch

I think Nintendo thought 3rd parties would fill in more of the gaps.

But yeah, Nintendo could really use this time to build their personnel numbers.  Honestly, buying some teams and letting them make whatever and throwing it on the eShop could be how Nintendo finds their next big franchise.

This is another thing that really bothers me with Nintendo. They hold such tight leashes on how certain things should be done that a lot of potentially great ideas were probably tossed away before it could be really thought out. Their development teams may be creative, but their execution is so conservative and set in their own ways. I'm not sure if that is how businesses in Japan work in general, but in my brief time traveling in Japan, I noticed that they have a really disciplined but restricted caste system. You are pretty much doing as you are told. You do not question the higher ups. They do not respond well to changes. I think Nintendo in some ways falls into this category.

If third parties are not willing to develop games, they have to either create their own teams and build up their talent or buy the whole team. I'm sure if they are open-minded with their development, talented individuals will seek them as well. Most of us grew up with Nintendo and the same people would love to develop for the company they were so fond of back in the day.

Segnit BGSApril 23, 2014

Quote from: Khushrenada

Quote from: Segnit

The reality is that the biggest Nintendo fans have been neglected the most by Nintendo. To not much drama or fanfare, Nintendo has turned its back on the real Nintendo fans, leaving behind either the most obscenely irrational fan or just the younger generation (say younger than 25) who have yet to tire of experiencing a half dozen sequels to an old concept rooted in the 80’s or 90’s while the rest of the world has moved on to full blown interactivity and fresh IP such as Minecraft, Dayz and Star Citizen.


Although I probably will regret it, please cite examples of Nintendo turning its back and neglecting fans.


Rather than pursue an avenue of discussion that’d fracture the conversation further, it’d be far more productive carrying a policy of just trusting that most people are honest to themselves. So for example when fans - perhaps such as yourself - who’re currently satisfied with the quality of Nintendo products say something like “Nintendo is at the top of their game at the moment, damn the naysayers!”, then those - such as myself - holding negative feelings about Nintendo must still listen to such sentiments because they are genuine. Because you are genuine. Alternatively there is no reason to suspect that people who used to be Nintendo diehard’s but have since deserted them are fake.
And those are two extremes. Opinions don’t have to be so clearly defined to be so mutually understandable.
As for why I bring up Minecraft, Dayz and Star Citizen it’s simple. All of those IP’s are brand new. They had $0 in marketing, zero brand recognition, and zero brand loyalty and became absolute hits. Both Minecraft and DayZ inspired new genres spawning dozens and dozens of imitations and offshoots, each selling truckloads themselves.  You are right in that DayZ alone has sold 1.8 million units but its sales trajectory easily leaves room for more than a doubling of that figure. 0 to 1.8 million in just 5 months and the game is still in alpha, broken, imbalanced and selling rapidly.
As for Star Citizen, there is a unique reason for mentioning it. Ever heard of the expression “don’t just complain, vote with your wallet”? Well, as of the time of writing the project has raised $42,807,552 with still no gameplay available. Star Citizen might fail or end up a scam but what cannot be denied is that there are a LOT of gamers out there and so starved of space simulation that they are willing to take a risk and back an ambitious dream project.
If you ask any publisher – including Nintendo - if they’re happy to have missed the opportunity of engaging with such a generous consumer base and passing up on owning a new widely ambitious IP, what do you suppose their response will be?
I don’t want to fixate on any of these games because it’s the idea behind them that counts. The Nintendo I knew and loved was the cutting edge of gaming and game design. They were pioneers of new genres.
One day - perhaps in the distant future - we’ll have games be like Avatar or Star Trek; entire worlds to explore, ecosystems to protect, tragedies to uncover, dramas to unfold, population to protect, opinions to manage and justice to fight for. Games like Minecraft, DayZ and Star Citizen, though rudimentary, are on that path. Nintendo must again show interest in big ideas.
Smash Brothers was a big idea in its day. Mario Kart was a big idea in its day. Pikmin was a big idea in its day. Metroid was a big idea in its day. Goldeneye was a big idea in its day, Mario Galaxy was a big idea in its day. But since those days Nintendo became much more profitable before the decline, and yet the proportion of games with big ideas has gone down to zero even though quality has arguably remained as high as ever (i.e. Pikmin 3, Super Mario 3D World).

Mop it upApril 24, 2014

Wow, this thread is nuts.

I mostly agree with Phil, Khushrenada, Adrock, and Insanolord. I don't think I really have anything else to add though, they covered a lot.

I will say though, that I have conflicting feelings about the Wii U. Nintendo have certainly made some mistakes with it, and that should naturally result in lower sales. But sheesh, I don't feel the Wii U is as bad as its been selling, as I feel it already has a better library than the likes of GameCube and Dreamcast. And Miiverse shows that people generally like the system. Nintendo need to admit the mistakes they've made and correct them (they've done some of the first, but the second is the important one), and lower sales will help with that. But, I fear that if things continue like this, they'll just give up on the whole thing. And that would be a shame.

I want Wii U sales to pick up not because I necessarily think it deserves better, but because I want Nintendo to have enough reason to try again.

Evan_BApril 24, 2014

Hi, I'm that guy who hates Super Mario 3D Land.

I came in here to contribute, because I love Nintendo and I hate everyone.

So, as a Nintendo fan, one who grew up with a Game Boy and a PC and didn't receive a proper home console until the Gamecube when I was about nine or ten, and someone who firmly believes that Nintendo hasn't really changed from a software development standpoint, but the gamers that enjoyed their titles have changed, I wanted to say that I love the Wii U. I think its capabilities are neat and impressive, I think there's a ton of good ideas built into the system, and I believe that it can only get better with each new software update.

But, it is also a complete and utter shit-show. And I think coverage discussing that fact is extremely important. As RFN put it so bluntly- the Wii U is what happens when all of the risky business decisions Nintendo has banked on since the DS finally caught up with them. An innovative and unique idea that sacrifices the overall performance of the system to function, no multiplatform releases to buff out the miserable, repetitive library, no competency on Nintendo's part to release games steadily and with enthusiasm, and an over-reliance on marketing to a young audience to sell the system have all come to this. They have clung to tradition and a suicidal, high-stakes concept of hardware and refuse to adapt to what players really want- new experiences in gameplay and franchises, and hardware that has the ability to play a majority of titles.

Is this entirely their fault? No, I don't think so. Technology has evolved at such a rapid pace that I believe a conservative approach is really the only way to survive in the industry- but it also comes at the price of having your tech appear dated. In pushing their console first, Nintendo solidified the idea that it would be a halfway point between generations, in a number of ways. It's clear that it's an awkward console to develop for, at least by western standards, judging by the numerous comments made by developers.

Not even their method of pushing a bleeding console with their A-list titles has worked for them- at least, the Mario-related attempts haven't. I doubt Mario Kart will do much, and with the 3DS Smash Bros. coming out first, they're committing the Wii U version to obscurity. So what does Nintendo have left? I hope to god they understand the sort of situation they're in, and if they intend to have their video games be lucrative, they need to wake up and come out swinging in the next 12 months. Their disturbing silence these past few months can be taken either way, but ultimately, I think there is a reason they still exist today- because they can make good business decisions and turn a bad situation into a good one. They've proven that previously.

I love Nintendo, but I hate them very much at the moment. I love the Wii U, but I hate everything that makes it an easy pass for others. But I honestly cannot stand people who blindly defend the company just as much as I can't stand those who shit on it because it's not similar to the other contenders. We should be realistic in looking at sales figures and supporting an industry that is unique- most of all, we should support an industry that focuses on technical quality and productivity, something that, though Nintendo personally exemplifies with its titles, is not seen often in multiplatform and Triple-A gaming experiences- yet is also perpetuated by Nintendo's ass-backwards design and programming philosophy.

That's all I'm going to say about that.

MarioApril 24, 2014

I see Ian Sane is still rehashing the same posts from 2004.

Segnit BGSApril 24, 2014

What's your view Mario?

CarterSApril 25, 2014

I think that, if this were Nintendo's last home console, it would be the end of my days as a console user. I only ever play console games on Nintendo platforms anyways, and I play the rest on a gaming PC. That being said, I've registered, and will probably never log in again, seeing how the staff has responded to this grossly misinformed post.

marvel_moviefan_2012April 25, 2014

I agree with the feeling that if you have anything negative to say even if it is how you genuinely feel people just dismiss your views and move on. I love NINTENDO, I grew up with their games but lately I am tired of their bull shit. I have had enough, apparently MORE people share my view than those who blindly love the system no matter what.


THIS is what pisses me off about the NEW Nintendo fan: If you ask which system was better SNES or Genesis you will get all Nintendo all the way, most will cite the "better" games, the "better" graphics, and the "better" innovation as to why it is the "better" system. Sales wise it did outsell the Genesis but in terms of quality games it is about pure equal from a subjective stand point. With Game Cube Nintendo fans bragged about how much more powerful it was than the PS2 and bitched all day long at how it was "stupid" for PS2 to be selling like it was. With Wii it was suddenly cool to buy an under powered console because who cares the motion controls were good, except the fans were not the ones buying the console, the hard core gamers were not buying the console, it was MOSTLY casual gamers who were only into Wii Sports and when they went to town to purchase a game for it they obviously bought the one their family would enjoy hence why Nintendo games sold the best, because they catered more to families.


Now the Nintendo fans, or the cheerleaders if you will, claim graphics don't matters, 'specs' don't matter, being innovative doesn't matter, all that matters is great games, even if the hardware is lackluster. I JUST bought a PS3 last year, I am loving ever minute of it and the library couldn't be better and I am already considering a PS4 this early because I can see how it has a bright future, but somehow I must be lying when I say that I WOULD have been interested in a new Nintendo console if it was I don't know on par with the competition. Here is a news flash, *I* Did buy an N64 and a Game Cube so I clearly count in that number of fans who stuck it out during the hard times, with Wii i lost interest, obviously a lot of others shared my feelings which explains the reason the sales are shit at the moment.


My reasons for not wanting to get a Wii U are because I hated the Wii. I understand some fans loved it and will claim it had all these great games, well here is the thing you can't cite ever fucking game they  make and say here is proof they made great games, some of those games are shit. The SNES had over forty games released by Nintendo alone, less than 15 of them are regarded as classics or remembered by the masses today. You make any top 25 list of the best SNES games and damn it to hell every single time you will see a MIX of third and first party games and only the BEST of the first party games get a mention, not shit like Uniracers or that weird Yoshi game nobody remembers. Nintendo has always made great games and they always have had shit but their third party partners were there to fill in the gaps.

Sony relied nearly entirely on third parties alone, the first PS1 had few true first party games. When I look at Game Cube I can write up an easy list of great games first and third party that I would go back and enjoy today, on the Wii I can name maybe five, total, that I would go back to, the rest I ALREADY played on the fucking PS2 a year or more before they were released on the damn Wii in the first place. The rest are garbage to me.


With Wii U I see at most five games I would buy, ALL first party. People talk like Wii U had great 3rd party support and then lost it, NO they had shit for third party support most of it was just last gen games or the same multiplatform stuff everybody was going to get, Game Cube had at least one of the best games that generation as a 3rd party timed exclusive and it still has some of the best games ever, same with n64, and even SNES/NES.

Super Mario 3D World looks like the best game out now, DKC:TP looks okay but even that is dividing the fans some love it as a throw back to the SNES games, others hate it and want a "N64" type sequel or something. Same with Mario. The point is we all have different wants and desires, Nintendo USED to cater to a larger audience because we USED to buy their machines and we USED to get excited for their machine. i stood in line in the fucking cold to get a Wii and I nad no regrets for the first year. I struggled to save up enough to get a game Cube because I couldn't live without I needed it in my life. I picked up an N64 with my first paycheck from my first real job and I didn't care that I had no games I was just happy to own the system and the one game I cold afford. Wii U is different, I have no excitement for it, nobody does.


There are those of you who bought it despite there being no excitement and you somehow either one really have no standards, two you are lying and secretly do regret it, or three you just love Nintendo so much you can't see their faults. Or maybe it's just your too young to remember the Nintendo we grew up with.


Want to know how fucking powerful THAT Nintendo was, just go to Youtube and look at all the people STILL making videos doing nothing but playing those old games, talking about those old games or shit just look at how successful James Rolfe was with his videos mocking the WORST they had to offer back then. Nintendo used to be a cultural force, an icon that literally meant playing video games. Nowadays they are a fucking joke and I am sorry but I don't care if you love the system, I hate it, and I can see that more people feel similar to how I do than you so I can say this, if the Wii U does continue to flop you will either face reality then or turn into bitter blind loyalists like the Sega fans have become. At least Atari fans had the good graces to move on. I know a lot to reed most will gloss over and pick out the one or two sentences they take issue with and have a field day but my point is there was a time when I was excited for Nintendo. Yes I remain hopeful they can turn it around and like many I post my issues in a public news forum where there is a slim chance someone of their marketing researchers might take notice and also just to vent, because that is how people are, if everybody just kept quite nothing would change. And voting with our wallets, clearly we have sent that message by not supporting an inferior product.


Right now I will get a Wii U the day it is discontinued and clearnced out ONLY because I know how the after market works and this shit will be a gold mine in fifteen years. The machine SUCKS I don't care how many games theymake for it the machine is a damn dissapointment it is the machine they SHOULD have released in 2006, or 2010 the damn latest.

SorenApril 25, 2014

Exemplary tale, mate.

pokepal148April 25, 2014

Quote from: Mario

I see Ian Sane is still rehashing the same posts from 2004.

And then he complains about Nintendo rehashing their games, hypocrite :D

I might as well add my thoughts to this robust discussion.

Nintendo isn't going to kill off Wii U.  It may have a truncated lifecycle when compared to most consoles nowadays, but it will still be around for 4-5 years, 2016, 2017 would be my guess.  They'll try to break even on the project if nothing else, and make as much money off of software as they can until that time comes.  Their focus now is not so much "turning it around" as it is "riding it out".

I think Nintendo is moving in the direction of having a single OS that will allow them to port things around as they see fit. I don't know if there's going to be another console necessarily, but I don't think anybody has to worry about Nintendo devices going away.  They're going to take a page out of the iOS/Android (and heck even Windows) playbook and create an overall system architecture that they use across multiple hardware platforms (always remember that Iwata holds Apple in high regard).  This will allow them to release products - the health stuff is a good example - that all retain a familiar Nintendo look'n'feel but do things slightly or completely differently from their video game stuff. But more importantly, developers will have a single set of tools to work with.  This is typical Nintendo M.O.: observe market trends for a frustratingly long time, cherrypick the ideas they like, and then execute on them.

Good article: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/nintendo-s-next-console-and-mobile-will-be-like-brothers/1100-6417496/

I've long held that Nintendo has wanted out of the console space since the GameCube days, but could never figure out a better way to deliver its experiences to consumers. Wii was an embodiment of this; Nintendo didn't want to jump into the arms race, but they knew a console was the only way to do what they needed to do so they released one with dated graphics hardware.  Now with mobile hardware being much more powerful they'll be able to do a lot more going forward (and in an arena where there is less emphasis on cutting-edge visual fidelity).

It is fascinating to watch the Wii U slow motion trainwreck, however.  I feel it really does signal a shift in the industry away from traditional consoles (Sony is already experimenting with Vita TV in Japan), and a sign that Nintendo needs to rethink its entire strategy from the bottom up. What it used to do doesn't work any more, and unfortunately they were the last ones to admit it.

Mop it upApril 25, 2014

Why does everyone keep generalizing so much?

marvel_moviefan_2012April 26, 2014

If you want specifics I can do that. While it is very true Nintendo games have not changed we can pretty much all agree on that, the industry has changed. Gamers have grown to expect bigger and deeper experiences. Nintendo games are still fun, there is no denying that, if you gave me a Wii U for free I would probably play Mario 3D world and DKC every day. But that is not enough for me, I want more, and here is my problem, if I get a Playstation I know I am going to get the major games I want, Castlevania, Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, Resident Evil, Ninja Gaiden, Final Fantasy, Devil May Cry, God of War, Ratchet and Clank, Gran Turismo, and on top of all that I am going to get brand new experiences that I have never played before. I am going to get a machine that has ZERO limitations, it pushes technology to the limits, it has a fully integrated and simple online infrastructure that allows me to connect with strangers and best friends in a single instant, none of those things are true with Wii U, if I want to play a game online I have to KNOW the damn person a head of time, I have to trade friend codes with them and then I have to play on unreliable servers because Nintendo refuses to invest properly.


When I had a Game Cube there were very few games I couldn't get on the machine, sure there were a few I missed out on, like the FF, Kingdom Hearts, and a few others, but for the most part the games Game Cube had to offer were sufficient. I was okay without Final Fantasy because I had Star Fox Adventures, I had Tales of Symphonia, I had Crystal Chronicles, I had Zelda Four Swords, I didn't have to miss out on Mortal Kombat I had it day one and despite being a delay on Deception I had that too. I had Soul Calibur 2, I had Smash Bros. Melee and I had about five or so DBZ fighting games. Then I wasn't so upset that I couldn't play Silent Hill 2 because I had the best Resident Evil games I could get, if I wanted it I could have bought Eternal Darkness and had a similar experience and with Resident Evil 4 and REMake I was all set.


With Wii it was different, the best I could get was a handful of typical Nintendo fare, which to be honest were still good games, but I really started to notice the gaps for the first time, even with N64 there were droughts but there were not that many gaps, just about any major genre and franchise was available, RPG's were not but I had a PS1 for that and was just fine.


Now it is even worse with Wii U, there is not ever going to be a Mortal Kombat ever, Warner has already stated this, even though there is a brand new MK game in the works. There is a Super Street Fighter IV, the entire Tekken and Soul Caliber franchise missing from the Wii U line up, well unless you count a spin off that is just one game. The Wii could have been the console for FPS games and instead it turned into a dumping ground for mini game collections.


MY personal biggest issue despite the lack of games is the damn price, an issue I also have with PS Vita and 3DS by the way. I was aprehensive about buying a DS because it was a mere $30 more expensive than previous hand helds, the 3DS has been out what three years and still hasn't even dropped to what DS launched at, don't give me any inlfation BS because Nintendo kept their consoles  and hand helds priced the same for two decades, Sony seems to have learned that lesson too. Wii U costs fifty dollar less than a PS4 and is technologically on par with a $150 cheaper PS3 with a vastly superior library. I was OKAY with buying a Game Cube at a reasonable price because it was on par with the competition and it had a decent selection of games. With Wii the machine didn't have nearly all the games I wanted, and to be honest the ones that I would have enjoyed came out AFTER I sold the damn thing (hence why droughts are a BAD thing you can't string people along forever) but despite the lack of games it was reasonably priced and the virtual console gave it added value,  at least for a couple of years.


With Wii U the virtual console is a damn joke and aside from a very small handful of Nintendo remixes most of the eShop games can be had elsewhere already. if Wii U was priced let's say $200 right now I might get one but for what I get it is over priced and for the most part there is no value, the few games it does have might be the best damn games ever made this gen, but there are too few of them to justify a $300 console considering that 9 year old consoles with huge libraries and comporable tech are for sale for less and the next gen consoles are vastly superior techwise and library wise and are not that much higher priced. for the value I can get a PS4 for a hundred dollars more, pay the same price for games,a nd know that the industry is commited to the machine, at least for the forseable future. nintendo may or may not be commited fully to Wii U but the industry has moved on the consumer has moved on and why should I spend my hard earned money on a failed machine? After the fact Sega President made a claim that marketing the Saturn was damn near impossible, it might not be a direct comparison but I think five years from Now Iwata will be saying the about Wii U.

MagicCow64April 26, 2014

Once again, walls of confused and angry text from people who hated the Wii, hate the WiiU, want to see Nintendo crash and burn. I get it: you like Playstation! You've got that! You can get all the Gran Tristero, Gall of War, etc., to your heart's content! Follow your bliss! What I don't get is people repeating the same screeds over and over again. If Nintendo broke your heart with the Wii, so be it, but that was eight years ago. Nintendo's not doing what you want, and will continue to not do that. Let it go! Move on! Finally donate your dead kid's toys! As of now, you're just hurting yourself. Why not migrate to Sony World Report and speak to folks there about how much you love your deeper video game experiences on that platform? No amount of wailing here will ever get you a Zelder Scrolls or F-Forzero or Super Mario Online or whatever weird fantasy game that skins Nintendo properties onto the PS4/Xbone properties you already seem completely satisfied by.

broodwarsApril 26, 2014

Quote from: MagicCow64

Once again, walls of confused and angry text from people who hated the Wii, hate the WiiU, want to see Nintendo crash and burn. I get it: you like Playstation! You've got that! You can get all the Gran Tristero, Gall of War, etc., to your heart's content! Follow your bliss! What I don't get is people repeating the same screeds over and over again. If Nintendo broke your heart with the Wii, so be it, but that was eight years ago. Nintendo's not doing what you want, and will continue to not do that. Let it go! Move on! Finally donate your dead kid's toys! As of now, you're just hurting yourself. Why not migrate to Sony World Report and speak to folks there about how much you love your deeper video game experiences on that platform? No amount of wailing here will ever get you a Zelder Scrolls or F-Forzero or Super Mario Online or whatever weird fantasy game that skins Nintendo properties onto the PS4/Xbone properties you already seem completely satisfied by.

It warms my heart to see fanboys as butthurt as this by the presence of opinions other than their own.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28snhq40C8o

Segnit BGSApril 26, 2014

I wonder what kind of person you have to be in real life to write something so ill intentioned. It'd be great if you didn't take things so personally. Also, people are more important than a brand, don't forget.

Segnit BGSApril 26, 2014

Previous post @MagicCow64

PS: Why not edit button?

AdrockApril 26, 2014

Someone disliking something I like doesn't affect my enjoyment of it. Opposing views can be great for discussion though it pretty regularly devolves into clusterfuckery on NWR. How many times do the same things have to come up? I'm fairly confident I can provide counterpoints using nothing but old posts.

Still, it continues to baffle me that anyone would willingly participate in discussions about a company they claim offers them little to nothing in the way of entertainment. Oh, they used to. Okay. But they don't now? I'm sorry to hear that, but how many times do you all have to complain about it (not to Nintendo themselves, I might add, which is doubly confusing as well as counterproductive) before you get over it and do something else? Sure, if that's what you all want to do, but I can't say I understand it.

Segnit BGSApril 26, 2014

Adrock, it's not a reasonable thing to - unilaterally or in a partisan way - request a moratorium on certain subjects. Nevertheless, your desire to see a stop to disgruntled Nintendo fans expressing negative sentiments on a Nintendo fan site won’t go unheeded, as some percentage of the people (me included) will inevitably take the hint.

However those who ignore your request, staying behind to continue to publicly petition for change within Nintendo, those are great fans and great people. Because by sticking around they’re doing the Nintendo community a major service. How so? Well as a general rule of life, as the diversity of opinion is reduced anywhere, there will be an inevitable rise in radical opinion. It was true for the Guyana tragedy in the 70’s, it was true for the puritan Massachusetts Bay colony in the 1670’s, and it is true for any totalitarian dictator in any part of the world, present or past. It rings true in political, religious, economic, military and entertainment circles alike.

Wishing for exclusion is not a healthy state. Seeking isolation from criticism is not forward thinking.

It is always disappointing to see the deleterious nature of some of the remaining Nintendo fans, especially because I know we all love the same company that gave us commonly shared and cherished experiences not matter our (i.e. everyone’s) age or gender differences.

When people choose to criticize Nintendo, the criticisms must always be judged by their own merits. Attacking the critic or showing discontent towards them rather than the merits of the criticisms themselves, is at best an asymmetric form of non-engagement and at worst a personal attack that contributes to a qualitative deterioration of the discussion. It is a Red Herring and an Ad Hominem.

AdrockApril 26, 2014

I feel as if you didn't read a word I wrote. First, I made no such request for a "moratorium." Go ahead, actually read the post this time. I said I didn't understand the act of continued voluntary participation in discussions regarding a company that, apparently, no longer offers what you're looking for. You can, however, do whatever you please.

Second, registering discontent on a message board that isn't affiliated with Nintendo is doing nothing for your cause. What you're doing is the equivalent of standing on a random street corner with a picket sign and a bullhorn. If you want your words to reach Nintendo, perhaps consider actually sending them to Nintendo in a polite, yet firm manner. Not purchasing their products, which many of you have already done, is the only other recourse.

Third, you are not doing NWR any great service and claiming such is laughable at best and insulting at worst. Ian, for example, has constantly repeated the same complaints across three separate generations. That isn't excessive to you? You all either enjoy stroking yourselves to your own complaining, or you think every other forum member suffers from short-term memory loss thus requiring reiteration of these same complaints. I'm just going to spoil this bit for you: we're all aware of the issues, all of us, even and especially the ones who still like Nintendo despite the issues. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm perfectly fine with opposing views. However, it would be greatly appreciated if you all would stop acting like your criticisms are more valid just because you say them louder and with more frequency. I'm not wishing for exclusion. State your case, state it proud, but for the love of Jebus, state it once. Even someone with the most rudimentary comprehension skills can understand what you mean the first time.

Fourth, the people who aren't repeatedly and/or as openly criticizing Nintendo are also not beyond criticizing Nintendo. No one here is claiming Nintendo is perfect. We simply don't agree with the validity of all of your criticisms. More importantly, we just don't feel the need to clog the forums and steer so many threads in that direction.

Mop it upApril 26, 2014

Quote from: Adrock

I feel as if you didn't read a word I wrote.

Everything you said was a good point, and a good post overall, but I feel like this is what's happening the most in this and a few other threads. There have been some real gross generalisations made about certain groups of people, and that feels like the result of just plain ignoring what people are actually saying, or ignoring the parts of it that go against the generalisations.

MagicCow64April 27, 2014

Quote from: Segnit

I wonder what kind of person you have to be in real life to write something so ill intentioned. It'd be great if you didn't take things so personally. Also, people are more important than a brand, don't forget.

Somehow I think I come across as taking it less personally than the people who post sputtery 2,000 word posts about how much Nintendo has failed them personally.

@Adrock

Thank you for posting a less "ill-intentioned" version of what I meant.

It doesn't bother me that other opinions exist, a la Brood Wars trolling, but I am getting increasingly awed/irritated at the pathological regurgitation of the exact same same arguments for literally years. I have no idea what people are possibly getting out of it, and it certainly is doing nothing at this point to elevate the forum. At least Iansane, perhaps the most autistic poster of all, writes cleanly and coherently, unlike these new pop-ins.

What's really a shame here, aside from the now endemic thread de-railing, is that these conflicting viewpoints aren't about anything anymore. Actual game discussion threads are dead.

broodwarsApril 27, 2014

Quote from: MagicCow64

It doesn't bother me that other opinions exist, a la Brood Wars trolling, but I am getting increasingly awed/irritated at the pathological regurgitation of the exact same same arguments for literally years. I have no idea what people are possibly getting out of it, and it certainly is doing nothing at this point to elevate the forum. At least Iansane, perhaps the most autistic poster of all, writes cleanly and coherently, unlike these new pop-ins.

1. I don't "troll." "Trolling" infers I don't actually believe what I write and just write whatever I think will get a rise out of you. No, I just enjoy the sight of people who seeminglycan't think for themselves, which is what most fanboys are, writhing in despair. "Asshole" would be a more apt description.  ;)

2. And what "new pop-ins", would those be? I could probably count on one hand the number of notable new posters on this site in the last year. All of the longstanding Nintendo cynics like myself have been here at least since the start of the Wii years, if we weren't lurkers beforehand.

3. I believe someone here asked why people who have such issues with Nintendo would frequent a Nintendo-centric website. From my perspective, it's the same reason why so many people frequent Xbox Live despite its earned terrible reputation: because it's where their friends are. In NWR's case, it's also where my favorite podcasts are, which I can enjoy without being a Nintendo sycophant.  Likewise, it's also possible to be a fan of something in general without being fond of what they're currently doing. Nintendo's like that drug addict in the family in that regard, actually.

marvel_moviefan_2012April 27, 2014

Quote from: MagicCow64

Once again, walls of confused and angry text from people who hated the Wii, hate the WiiU, want to see Nintendo crash and burn. I get it: you like Playstation! You've got that! You can get all the Gran Tristero, Gall of War, etc., to your heart's content! Follow your bliss! What I don't get is people repeating the same screeds over and over again. If Nintendo broke your heart with the Wii, so be it, but that was eight years ago. Nintendo's not doing what you want, and will continue to not do that. Let it go! Move on! Finally donate your dead kid's toys! As of now, you're just hurting yourself. Why not migrate to Sony World Report and speak to folks there about how much you love your deeper video game experiences on that platform? No amount of wailing here will ever get you a Zelder Scrolls or F-Forzero or Super Mario Online or whatever weird fantasy game that skins Nintendo properties onto the PS4/Xbone properties you already seem completely satisfied by.

because it is possible to WANT to like the Wii U and be dissapinted at the same time. because maybe I would prefer if Nintendo would actually TRY harder and make their machine worth owning, or maybe just maybe it is the WII U I have a problem with and  not their games or their company? Do I HAVE to worship Nintendo to be here? Is there some creed that says in order to be a FAN you have to be a blind loyalist who can't wish for them to do better? FUCK YOU! So what if I want to express MY reasons for why I am not getting a Wii U, I am still interested in the machine and the games, obviously I am waiting for a PRICE DROP I said that, at it's current price I am not interested, so I have as much a right to be here and to complain as the cheerleaders have to sit on the side lines and sing endless praises to Nintendo like some sort of weird cult.

marvel_moviefan_2012April 27, 2014

Also I forgot to add that I actually LOVED the Game Cube damn it and I defended it to the death, I tried to do the same with Wii but I lost interest, and I gave examples of games from BEFORE Playstation that used to be on Nintendo systems WHY do current Nintendo fans FORGET that all those games you claim to hate started ON NINTENDO SYSTEMS. Because at one point I could buy a NINTENDO console and get every game I wanted, that changed and has been getting worse each generation, maybe I never wanted to get a Playstation before maybe I would rather JUST buy a Nintendo machine and be done with it, but as it currently stands I can't do that. IF I have to resort to making Wii U a second console, which HEY I might do at some point, I won't until they get more games and the price comes down. And just because I am not that interested in the machine does not mean I am not interested in some of the games. Like I said, if you would READ my post, my issue with Wii U, and 3DS, is they are too high priced for what you get, outdated tech. If they were priced right I would consider them like I had previously hey NEWS FLASH I BOUGHT A WII on launch day, before the craze and before the droughts kicked in just like YOU all bought Wii U. I did not buy a Wii U, I am not happy with the current offerings so I try to express my reasons not so much in hopes that Nintendo will notice, shit they could care less anyways they learned long ago they can survive off their die hard blind loyalists long ago they can lose market share, they can turn long standing fans into disinterested individuals.


I never said I HATE Nintendo or the Wii or the Wii U, ever. I said I have grown tired of these LAST two generations where games I would buy are not available, it was NOT that was before, to some extent on N64 and lesser extent Game Cube but not like now, not this bad. Also it should matter to you because instead of insulting me for LIKING Nintendo maybe try to calmly and rationally explain to me how DESPITE all their problems YOU can still be a fan. it makes less sense to LIKE Nintendo today than it does to wonder what happened to them.


I don't care about the company or the brand personally that make, or used to make, games I enjoy period. They stop making games I want I stop giving them money they start losing money they go out of business. It matters because I actually DID want a Wii U, but then as I remembered how bad things were last gen, how hard it was to stay loyal during the end of the Game Cube life anyways, and how bleak thinks look. Hey I NEVER Said I was wishing for their demise so don't just put words into my mouth because I disagree with you it means I share the exact same opinion as every other person you disagree with, maybe we might agree on some things but we will never know because all you can do is attack me for liking Nintendo? Don't you also LIKE Nintendo? I am still interested in a 3DS, I said that many times, but the machine is too expensive for me, I can't afford it and I refuse to pay that much for a toy, which is essentially what it is. Playstation has added value as an entertainment device and a game machine but Nintendo consoles are at their core just toys. The reason I don't go to playstation world report as you say is because I JUST got a Playstation last year, I had a Ps1 like MOST of you did too, and I got a PS2 years latter like MOST of you did too, because I am NOT a Nintendo fan I am a video game fan and I actually do like Nintendo games I just like OTHER games that I USED to be able to play on my Nintendo machine, I even pointed out examples of games on GAME CUBE that are missing from Wii/Wii U, so it is just the Wii brand Not Nintendo as a whole hell DS/3DS has ALL the games Wii/Wii U are missing so there is still a case to say Nintendo COULD be great but they are not, you should be worried because as an early adopter if Nintendo can not convince me, a gamer who has previously owned every major console to date, not to buy a Wii U, and their sales are as bad as they are, then there IS a very real chance it might get replaced sooner or latter, despite all the talk about war chests and crap Nintendo is not the type of company to sit on a failed product for too long, they were quick to drop several products when it became apparent they were losing them money. Game Cube was profitable, not successful but profitable Wii U is losing money Nintendo can afford to do so but won't. they NEED to win ME over, and those who like me USED to be like you, it's just we say the ice berg hitting the Titanic and got in the life boat while your sipping your champagne wondering where everybody went.

Segnit BGSApril 27, 2014

Complaining publicly is good. Sending direct messages of discontent through private means isn't a substitute for public discontent. You’re not actually suggesting that, therefore I must have misunderstood you. Apologies.

It is nevertheless a good suggestion that, in addition to public discontent on a not so random forum, sending emails directly to Nintendo is a positive. I’m sure some have done that already while others might do so on the back of your suggestion. For Nintendo, having fan emails that, upon closer inspection corroborate sentiments in the public domain (NWR) will undoubtedly have some impact.
As for the broken record remarks. Well complaining repeatedly is also a useful form of protest. Now we agree that all protest is not equal. Some are more tasteful than others, some more classy, while others might be downright abusive.

In this case, was it appropriate to regurgitate old criticisms under the article “Comparing Wii U's Sales to GameCube, Wii”? According to the context of article, the only answer which makes sense is a ‘yes’. Because omission from the discussion on what everyone’s best guesses are as to why Nintendo is currently in deep trouble with the Wii U, would be a massive oversight. Omission of the best reasons simply because they’ve been expressed ad nauseam in the past is nonsense. I don’t think anyone has suggested this so obviously I have misunderstood.

Bringing old but still valid points at appropriate times is the only way it can work.
At the end of the day, all of what I’ve said above is just beating around the bush. The heart of the matter is that criticism of Nintendo is not well received by some Nintendo fans who are happy with the status quo. This isn’t unique to NWR, Nintendo or gaming. It is a universal human trait. The solution is to not be excessively sensitive about it while still being sensitive enough that you can weed out bad arguments from the good ones.

However, what should be common and apparent to all here is that every single member here is asking for a better Nintendo. Some think that existing Nintendo is good enough as is. Ask Iwata and he would probably disagree with that notion himself.

Finally, those fans who’re happy with the Wii U but can sympathize with the other side. You are awesome!

broodwarsApril 27, 2014

It's also worth noting that there really isn't any more point in complaining directly to Nintendo than there is complaining about them here. What few ****s Nintendo corporate gives about what its fans think extends only as far as Japan's border. They will NEVER care what their American or European fans think, as they have proven repeatedly in the past. Remember: the former President of NoA being moved to an even more quiet desk job in Japan was considered a step up by Nintendo corporate. What exactly would be the point in expressing our grievances to someone like Iwata in person? They don't care, and they never will so long as we're not Japanese.

MagicCow64April 27, 2014

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: MagicCow64

It doesn't bother me that other opinions exist, a la Brood Wars trolling, but I am getting increasingly awed/irritated at the pathological regurgitation of the exact same same arguments for literally years. I have no idea what people are possibly getting out of it, and it certainly is doing nothing at this point to elevate the forum. At least Iansane, perhaps the most autistic poster of all, writes cleanly and coherently, unlike these new pop-ins.

1. I don't "troll." "Trolling" infers I don't actually believe what I write and just write whatever I think will get a rise out of you. No, I just enjoy the sight of people who seeminglycan't think for themselves, which is what most fanboys are, writhing in despair. "Asshole" would be a more apt description.  ;)

2. And what "new pop-ins", would those be? I could probably count on one hand the number of notable new posters on this site in the last year. All of the longstanding Nintendo cynics like myself have been here at least since the start of the Wii years, if we weren't lurkers beforehand.

3. I believe someone here asked why people who have such issues with Nintendo would frequent a Nintendo-centric website. From my perspective, it's the same reason why so many people frequent Xbox Live despite its earned terrible reputation: because it's where their friends are. In NWR's case, it's also where my favorite podcasts are, which I can enjoy without being a Nintendo sycophant.  Likewise, it's also possible to be a fan of something in general without being fond of what they're currently doing. Nintendo's like that drug addict in the family in that regard, actually.

(1.) Fair enough, I'm quitting smoking at the moment and probably am not coming across as the nicest guy in the universe myself. Though I don't think my postings on this website are evidentiary of a lack of self-determination.

(2.) Folks like Marvel Movie Fan, Segnit, and a few other near 0/0 who have swum into talkback threads in the last few weeks. Perhaps just ex-lurkers, but boy are they dropping walls.

(3.) That's the most coherent answer to the question I've seen. I'm not involved in the multiplayer/podcast community stuff so I'm probably missing part of the picture. The history is why I stick around too, despite the doldrums lately. I've been hanging around since the PlanetN2000 days, posting or not, and I really don't want to move.

eathdemonApril 27, 2014

I am mostly a PC gamer at this point. I own a 3ds I will not pay $300 for a system with almost no games on it, and is over 10 to 15x weaker then my pc. I will be buying ssb4 for the 3ds. would I buy Mario, Zelda, and other Nintendo games for other platforms if they came out? yes I would, and so would most gamers. the issue is me, and allot of others want more then just Nintendo games. we want Mario, and Zelda, but we want bioschock, mass effect, fallout, and many other games that will never end up on a Nintendo system.


The next issue is online, and the piss poor online that they have. I do not live in the same area as my friends, and playing with them online should not be as annoying as it is on Nintendo systems. in addition to the not very developed online play, any eshop purchases are tied to the system and not the user. as someone who buys 90% of my games digitally, that is not acceptable.


On a side note, screw them for their anti YouTube policy. that policy is stupid, but if you do not believe me look at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MyXcr6sDRtw

smallsharkbigbiteApril 27, 2014

Quote:

You all either enjoy stroking yourselves to your own complaining, or you think every other forum member suffers from short-term memory loss thus requiring reiteration of these same complaints.


Adrock, I normally like reading your posts but this is pretty harsh.  I think both sides of the argument enjoy stroking themselves.  You said in your prior post that you could mount a defense based completely on old posts.  Both sides regurgitate the same arguments repeatedly.  Both sides could let this thread die and let it go.  Who cares whether the first or last post was pro/anti-Nintendo.  It's not either sides job to educate the other side. 

Quote from: Adrock

What you're doing is the equivalent of standing on a random street corner with a picket sign and a bullhorn.


If that's true, then the equivalent of defending Nintendo against said people is:

You are walking to work and someone is standing on the corner yelling things loudly that you don't like in an area that you frequent (the nerve).
So you get your own bullhorn and stand on the opposite side of the street yelling at them trying to cancel them out, yelling louder and stronger than them hoping to silence them. 

Neither thing is productive.  Attacking just one side of the argument isn't going to solve the problem. 

I also hate the personal attacks.  I get it's annoying when people come in and say "Nintendo sucks because x!", but do we really need to respond with "You suck because y!"?

Quote from: broodwars

It's also worth noting that there really isn't any more point in complaining directly to Nintendo than there is complaining about them here.

This is true, in the sense that zero isn't more than zero.

marvel_moviefan_2012April 27, 2014

the problem is growing though, I USED to be on the pro-Nintendo side where they could do no wrong, I woke up. The reason I am so vocal about it is not because I am trying to be heard, but I am trying to understand how anyone can still be pro-Nintendo these days. I guess you could take it as a challenge to win me back ;), as Nintendo themselves have failed to do. Also I would get a 3DS tomorrow for the same games I am not ever going to see released on Wii U, but I would really prefer a console I enjoy Nintendo games but I hate handhelds so that is where I am. IF they follow up with the proposed Hybrid or Tablet style gaming machine that does both, I might get it ina heartbeat. The Wii U is a massive flop there is no point in denying that now, but I am not saying it sucks I am saying that they need to make changes.

AdrockApril 27, 2014

Quote from: broodwars

It's also worth noting that there really isn't any more point in complaining directly to Nintendo than there is complaining about them here.

Then why do it? If you aren't going to complain directly to Nintendo because you believe it's pointless, shouldn't you not complain here also because it's pointless?

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Adrock, I normally like reading your posts but this is pretty harsh.  I think both sides of the argument enjoy stroking themselves.  You said in your prior post that you could mount a defense based completely on old posts.  Both sides regurgitate the same arguments repeatedly.  Both sides could let this thread die and let it go.  Who cares whether the first or last post was pro/anti-Nintendo.  It's not either sides job to educate the other side.

I think you're completely missing the point. One side specifically keeps bringing it up. There's no counterargument if the argument isn't rendered to begin with. Additionally, that discussion has had its day, many times in fact. I suppose the counterargument-crowd could take the high-road though I'm not terribly surprised that they don't as this is a Nintendo-centric website. My "random street corner" analogy wasn't entirely accurate. They're going to a specific and carefully chosen street corner with their picket signs and bullhorns, but it's still the wrong street corner.

We can't have normal discussions here because threads keep being steered toward things that have been discussed to death. I decided not to get involved in that collective nonsense this time and yet have been drawn into a different kind of nonsense though in my defense, I am responding now because you specifically called me out.

Quote:

iAttacking just one side of the argument isn't going to solve the problem.

Targeting the source of the problem might.

smallsharkbigbiteApril 27, 2014

Quote:

I think you're completely missing the point. One side specifically keeps bringing it up.

The he started it argument.  That never went well with my parents.  They always countered with "Well, I'm ending it!"  I still think both sides like to get their jabs in when they can.  Either way, I don't think continuing a fight because someone else started it is a good idea. 

Quote:

There's no counterargument if the argument isn't rendered to begin with. Additionally, that discussion has had its day, many times in fact. I suppose the counterargument-crowd could take the high-road though

I'm not sure their is a moral highground here, we are talking video games after all.  I mean is it morally wrong to suggest Nintendo isn't doing well?  Remember 5 years ago when everything turned into a it prints money thread?  Should we have banned those people?  Those Gifs were pretty awesome though.  Maybe somebody should make better Gifs for our current discussions.  The pro Nintendo group could photoshop Iwata on Arnold from the terminator.  It could say "Those that doubt my leadership will be terminated."  The doomed group could have a Gif of a ship full of Wii Us going down over the Pacific with the caption "And nothing of value was lost."  Someone more creative could probably come up with better Gif ideas. 


You seem to not like these Nintendo is doomed discussions.  Am I right?  I'm more concerned about your sanity than moral highground.  The definition of insanity is doing the same things over and expecting new results.  What happens when you respond to these Nintendo is doomed threads?  Did they either clarify their argument, tell you that your counter arguments weren't valid, or bring up new reasons why Nintendo was failing?  Then did you feel the need to counter argument their counter argument?  Did your attempt to end the argument extend the argument several pages until someone grew tired of going in circles?  Nobody ever wins these arguments.  I mean, I guess I would say if you love these discussions, then yes, respond to every person who criticizes Nintendo and keep extending those threads.  Otherwise, just let it go, it's not worth getting riled up and similar to your argument above you can't change anything.  99.99% of the time nobody ever changes their opinion based on a forum reply. 

Quote:

We can't have normal discussions here because threads keep being steered toward things that have been discussed to death. I decided not to get involved in that collective nonsense this time and yet have been drawn into a different kind of nonsense though in my defense, I am responding now because you specifically called me out.

Quote:

iAttacking just one side of the argument isn't going to solve the problem.

Targeting the source of the problem might.

I disagree.  Based on the title of this thread I knew it would devolve into this, but far from every post does.  I ignore posts and topics all the time that I simply don't care to discuss.  I don't want to sound too negative, but is it possible that forum discussions are suffering around here because Nintendo is not bringing many new games to the market to discuss?  It seems to me you can only do so many Final Four of the last 15 years, or what's the best Zelda topics before people get tired of that as well.  But as I said above, I don't think you targeting individuals is going to solve anything but increase these thread counts.  You could message forum moderators and try to get them to lock these discussions and ban repeat offenders.  But that puts NWR in a tough spot too because these threads always end up being the most popular and either way they act could send a portion of their userbase looking for new forums. 

broodwarsApril 27, 2014

Quote from: Adrock

Quote from: broodwars

It's also worth noting that there really isn't any more point in complaining directly to Nintendo than there is complaining about them here.

Then why do it? If you aren't going to complain directly to Nintendo because you believe it's pointless, shouldn't you not complain here also because it's pointless?

Because while, in the end, it might be"pointless", at least on forums like this one we can have the discussion. Nintendo isn't interested in discussing anything. They dictate and expect everyone to just fall in line, with the occasional lip service paid to their Japanese investors once or twice a year.

pokepal148April 27, 2014

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: Adrock

Quote from: broodwars

It's also worth noting that there really isn't any more point in complaining directly to Nintendo than there is complaining about them here.

Then why do it? If you aren't going to complain directly to Nintendo because you believe it's pointless, shouldn't you not complain here also because it's pointless?

Because while, in the end, it might be"pointless", at least on forums like this one we can have the discussion. Nintendo isn't interested in discussing anything. They dictate and expect everyone to just fall in line, with the occasional lip service paid to their Japanese investors once or twice a year.

I'd say this is more 'echochamber' then discussion.

broodwarsApril 27, 2014

Quote from: pokepal148

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: Adrock

Quote from: broodwars

It's also worth noting that there really isn't any more point in complaining directly to Nintendo than there is complaining about them here.

Then why do it? If you aren't going to complain directly to Nintendo because you believe it's pointless, shouldn't you not complain here also because it's pointless?

Because while, in the end, it might be"pointless", at least on forums like this one we can have the discussion. Nintendo isn't interested in discussing anything. They dictate and expect everyone to just fall in line, with the occasional lip service paid to their Japanese investors once or twice a year.

I'd say this is more 'echochamber' then discussion.

It's only an "echo chamber" if the people providing the counter argument suck at arguing their point.  :P: ;)

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorApril 27, 2014

Or gave up a long time ago...

What I think is interesting is that Sony is "winning" right now by using Nintendo's playbook. That being, "provide games that appeal to everyone".  Nintendo's various decisions have pretty much backed them into the corner of their systems appealing to existing Nintendo fans and few others (with the sales numbers backing that up).

Sony, meanwhile, has pretty much pulled a SNES on the industry:

- Nicely-powered system for the price
- Easy to develop for
- Lots of third-party support

I'm not even pretending like I'm saying something new and novel here. But after reading through this mega-thread it makes me realize how difficult Nintendo makes things sometimes. Their problems are entirely created by themselves, and I have no idea why. It's like they purposely want to limit the appeal of their console to both developers and gamers, for some unknown reason.  I get that they're all about unique hardware, but with Wii U they aren't even using it so who cares? It's really baffling.

Use a PC-based architecture, make it as powerful as a PS4 or better, pack in a Pro Controller, and go from there. Pack-in weird controllers with games instead. It's not difficult.  People act like nobody would want a PS4 with Nintendo's games. Correction: EVERYBODY would want that.  "Oh but Nintendo hardware is unique and that's what I love about them if they did that they would be just like everybody else" WRONG.  Nintendo's games are what always set them apart, not their wacky gimmicky controllers. They only went that route because they didn't want to get into the console graphics arms race and needed another type of differentiator.  They need to come back to the fold a bit and accept that their controllers aren't really THAT much of a selling point any more, especially since the novelty of motion control has faded (see: Kinect not being a system-seller for XB1, Sony's move controller not having much of an impact on the market).

AdrockApril 27, 2014

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Either way, I don't think continuing a fight because someone else started it is a good idea.

I'm not necessarily condoning it, but I understand why people would defend Nintendo given that this is a Nintendo-centric website. I understand that more than people going to said website with an ax to grind.

Quote:

I'm not sure their is a moral highground here, we are talking video games after all.

Of course there is. Take video games out of it if it makes this easier. By "take the high-road," I meant the counterargument crowd could decide not to argue back. At the same time, people could just not start fights to begin with which prevents the problem entirely.

Quote:

You seem to not like these Nintendo is doomed discussions.  Am I right?  I'm more concerned about your sanity than moral highground.

First, you claimed in a previous post to hate personal insults then you personally insult me here by questioning my sanity. Nice.

Second, while I don't particularly enjoy those discussions, I'm specfically opposing the repetition of those discussions rather than their content. It comes up way more frequently than any other topic, often in completely unrelated threads. Entire discussions are halted which is what I find most disappointing.

Quote:

Nobody ever wins these arguments.  I mean, I guess I would say if you love these discussions, then yes, respond to every person who criticizes Nintendo and keep extending those threads.  Otherwise, just let it go, it's not worth getting riled up and similar to your argument above you can't change anything.  99.99% of the time nobody ever changes their opinion based on a forum reply.

This is the second time you've brought this up and I don't understand why you're specifically addressing this to me when I have not directly participated in this latest anti-Nintendo/pro-Nintendo argument, nor have I ever tried to change anyone's opinion in the past. My responses in previous discussions have referred specifically to something that didn't make sense to me, rather than an attempt to persuade them otherwise. My contribution to this thread, however, can be summed up with: Why are we even talking about this again?

marvel_moviefan_2012April 27, 2014

Quote from: UncleBob

Or gave up a long time ago...

I gave MY Reasons why I think the Wii U sucks, NONE of the other 'side' can give a single reason why the Wii U is supposedly so great they just repeat they love Nintendo, I love Nintendo too but not enough to just buy their crap when it isn't up to their usual standard. Why is it an argument, because someone says what they don't like about the system, what might change their mind, and all the pro camp does is say wait till this comes out or wait till next year, fine if wait till next year is the best you got then fine until then as of RIGHT NOW the selection sucks sure there are games promised that might change things but why should anyone be expected to buy an over -priced last gen machine with an extremely limited game selection?


I want Mop it Up, Uncle Bob and Adrock to back up their side, you love the wii u> WHY? Explain it to me why it is so great, I already gave my reasons why it's not. Maybe there is something you know about it I don't fine convince me that paying $300 to play FIVE games is intelligent? As of right now that is all I know about, if there are more games inform me, what are they? As of right now all I ever hear is wait till X comes out then when it does wait till Y comes out then it does wait till Z comes out, there isn't much else to get excited for, so unless I am missing something there is not sane reason so own a Wii U right now. If there is please enlighten me.


YES I like Nintendo games, so do most of us, but I don't have to like every game they make, it sounds to me like some of you just buy every game they make no matter what because THEY made it, if that is not true then explain yourself WHY is the Wii U not a piece of shit?

smallsharkbigbiteApril 27, 2014

Quote from: Adrock

Quote:

You seem to not like these Nintendo is doomed discussions.  Am I right?  I'm more concerned about your sanity than moral highground.

First, you claimed in a previous post to hate personal insults then you personally insult me here by questioning my sanity. Nice.

I was thinking if you do a you'll get c when you really want b which would make you go crazy.  If you took it as me explicitly saying you were crazy me inferring you were crazy I'm sorry.  I've used this metaphor lots of times and I'm not sure any ones questioned me as personally attacking them but I'll watch using it in the future. 

Quote:

This is the second time you've brought this up and I don't understand why you're specifically addressing this to me when I have not directly participated in this latest anti-Nintendo/pro-Nintendo argument, nor have I ever tried to change anyone's opinion in the past. My responses in previous discussions have referred specifically to something that didn't make sense to me, rather than an attempt to persuade them otherwise. My contribution to this thread, however, can be summed up with: Why are we even talking about this again?

Quote:

Something, something motion controls. Something, something last generation hardware. Something, something sequels.

I'm pretty sure I just saved at least five people several paragraphs of ranting, but they'll probably write them anyway.

Did you get your clarification on that?

broodwarsApril 27, 2014

I'm perfectly happy with people liking the Wii U. That's one of the reasons why I leave most of the threads on this site alone and just let people enjoy talking about Nintendo. There are aspects of the Wii U I genuinely enjoy, for all my many, MANY problems with it and modern Nintendo in general. Just yesterday, I was enjoying Yoshi's Island on the thing, which looks astonishingly great for a GBA port played blown-up on an HD system (with the smoothing filter on, at least). Likewise, I love my Vita, and it's sold worse than the Wii U. Where I take issue is with where this all started: someone complaining that writers for this site don't routinely kiss up to Nintendo and pretend everything's rainbows and butterflies just because it's a Nintendo website.

I don't feel that people are obligated to "defend" the Wii U just because other people don't like it. I just take issue with the "HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE NINTENDO ON A NINTENDO-CENTRIC WEBSITE" attitude.

marvel_moviefan_2012April 27, 2014

That is what I am asking, I don't care if they like it but they act like me not liking it is a crime, I gave my defense. If it matters to them why I can't like it why can't it matter to me why they do? I am genuinely curious I don't follow the news much I just read the forums lately. As pointed out most of the news is negative so if there is a reason to like it I am seriously curious, I mean I did like every past console so maybe there is something about Wii U am not educated on? I remember when Game Cube was slowing down people were quick to offer reasons why it was worth owning, I did the same I defended the Game Cube, which is funny because that machine used to get so much hate not it's being regarded as a success mainly because of the Wii U failing so hard.


Let me phrase it this way, Mop it Up asked for specifics, I gave mine then their posts delved into fine go away and play Playstation, i already said I did that but that should not be the attitude it should be hey here is a guy who USED to love Nintendo , Wii U is struggling, lets get him excited for it instead of making him not only turn to hate Nintendo but also anyone who would like Nintendo.


I am not sorry for my attitude I grew bitter BECAUSE I defended Nintendo when they didn't deserve it and I got tired of being hated for liking Nintendo.

I like my Wii U. I own a ton of games for it and will continue buying them as long as they come and have really enjoyed my time with the system. I am also not interested in the slightest in trying to convince anyone who thinks otherwise to change their mind. This is a subjective thing here, and if your position were weak enough to be defeated in this setting it wouldn't be strong enough for you to raise it in the first place. This whole unending debate is pointless.

AdrockApril 27, 2014

Quote from: marvel_moviefan_2012

I want Mop it Up, Uncle Bob and Adrock to back up their side, you love the wii u> WHY?

You're welcome to peruse my post history if you want.

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Did you get your clarification on that?

No. Not really. You just quoted an obvious joke post meant to illustrate the repetitive nature of these arguments.

Quote from: broodwars

I just take issue with the "HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE NINTENDO ON A NINTENDO-CENTRIC WEBSITE" attitude.

I really hope this isn't addressed to me because I feel like I've been abundantly clear on this.

smallsharkbigbiteApril 27, 2014

Quote from: Adrock

No. Not really. You just quoted an obvious joke post meant to illustrate the repetitive nature of these arguments.

It was funny, just grabbed your first quote.  I could have grabbed several of your other posts which weren't jokes and clearly blamed one side for this cluster and said we should target them with attacks. Like I said I generally like that you are balanced, but I don't think you've been on this thread.  You haven't been drawn into a back and forth argument about specific points, but you've not added much that is helpful in this thread and your side is clear so it's hard to pretend you are neutral.  If you want this and other threads like it to end,

Quote:

This whole unending debate is pointless.

.  That's all you really had to say, not pick and root for a sick. 

Mop it upApril 28, 2014

Firstly, I never said nor implied that I love the Wii U, and even in this thread, I said I was conflicted about it. But I s'pose I need to make that post a few more times for it to not be ignored. ;) Heck, I haven't seen a single person here who denies the problems of the Wii U and blindly loves everything that Nintendo do, and I have no idea where anyone gets an impression like that. When these sort of ridiculous generalisations pop up, I see little reason to say much.

Secondly, it isn't my job to convince anyone to buy a Wii U. That's Nintendo's duty and they aren't doing a good job of that. So I say the same thing as Arbock: check our posting history or go look through other sections. Everyone have difference preferences and one system can't please everyone. If one doesn't like something from Nintendo, they can state their piece and move on. It'd be nice if that last part happened more often...

AdrockApril 28, 2014

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

It was funny, just grabbed your first quote.  I could have grabbed several of your other posts which weren't jokes and clearly blamed one side for this cluster and said we should target them with attacks. Like I said I generally like that you are balanced, but I don't think you've been on this thread.  You haven't been drawn into a back and forth argument about specific points, but you've not added much that is helpful in this thread and your side is clear so it's hard to pretend you are neutral.

Whether you think I've remained neutral here is really beside the point. Obviously, I disagree, but more importantly, I'd really appreciate if you would kindly not twist my words around. I never said we should target anyone with attacks. The following seems to be what you're referring to so I'll elaborate.

Quote from: Adrock

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

Attacking just one side of the argument isn't going to solve the problem. 

Targeting the source of the problem might.

You used the word "attack" while I carefully chose the word "target" in that I am holding the anti-Nintendo side responsible for constantly driving discussions in that direction. That is hardly a call to arms, nor is it me absolving the other side for continuing the back and forth. It seems to me that the easiest way to solve the problem of these never-ending arguments is if we didn't have them in the first place. Since we're all aware of Nintendo's shortcomings, it would be super-fantastic if they weren't repeatedly brought up in so many threads. See? Target the source, nip the argument in the bud before it even blooms. Will it work? It might.

I haven't added much to this thread though I don't think anyone else has either due to the pointlessness of the discussion itself. However, in my defense, I've mainly been responding when me or my posts have implicitly been addressed. Such as:

Quote from: Mop

So I say the same thing as Arbock

Oh wait, that isn't about me.

marvel_moviefan_2012April 28, 2014

I guess I misunderstood the argument then, for that I do apologize. I guess we can all agree Nintendo made us this way so maybe we can get a class action suit going then.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorApril 28, 2014

Quote from: marvel_moviefan_2012

I want Mop it Up, Uncle Bob and Adrock to back up their side, you love the wii u> WHY? Explain it to me why it is so great, I already gave my reasons why it's not.

Sorry dude.  I'm too busy playing games on my Wii U to spend time rehashing the same arguments that's been on this website since the GameCube days.  It's not worth my time to repeat them over and over.  But you go right on ahead repeating the same arguments from the other side.  I'll just be here playin' mah video games.

marvel_moviefan_2012April 28, 2014

but thats the point, the Game Cube was a different scenario I already said I loved the Game Cube how is that relevent here? I could defend the GC all day long, I can't find anything to like about Wii U so it's not the same argument obviously

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorApril 28, 2014

Argument: "Nintendo doesn't cater to my wants."

Response: "Go buy something else."

That is the same argument that has been hashed and rehashed since the GameCube days in some form or another.  I'm just not interested in it again.

marvel_moviefan_2012April 28, 2014

By this same point in time the Game Cube already had a library more than twice that of the Wii U and still was churning out major third party exclusives, by this point in time the Game Cube was still riding the hype train it had a year to go before Xbox stole it's thunder and moved past.

The only complaints I had about Game Cube were not playing DVD's and that was not a deal breaker for me. Wii U has at most five first party games that I might be interested in. Now even if you personally like the other what is it, four that are out that I don't care for, that is what nine games, please tell me you did not spend $350 bucks on a game console for less than 10 games. By this same point in Game Cubes life it was still getting all the major third party support minus the Sony faithful who were still drowning in Playstation money.



I am serious this is an entirely NEW discussion because first this is not the same as game Cube obviously and second um I wasn't here for that and third I LOVED the Game Cube and still do.


Even the people here who still support the Wii U bitch about the game selection, and the lack of features, it's almost like, to me, you just bought it because it was made by Nintendo and you don't care if it doesn't produce the experiences you want, or you have grown to believe you don't miss those experience despite likely still enjoying them on DS/3DS while shrugging them off on Wii U? If that is not true please tell me otherwise because I am dying to know why it is the same as owning a Game Cube when I don't see it that way at all, especially since looking back at my library that I had on Game Cube there are hardly any of those games anywhere to be found on the Wii U.


Right now it has Pikmin 3, Zombie U (as far as I know the only major if not only 3rd party exclusives), it has 2 New Super mario games people here have talked trash about, a Wind Waker HD remake, and a new DKC and a new 3D mario and what two Sonic games again people here shit all over. So enlighten me how spending money on a machine that has so few games is worth that kind of money? The Wii had games, I will give it that, but they were increasingly more casual and less the kinds of games I was into, all that aside at least it had support, it had games, Wii U has none of that, even the first year of Wii was better than all of Wii U till now.


I just don't see how saying you liked the Game Cube is enough to say you like Wii U when I LOVED the Game Cube too, somehow it's not resonating apparently.

marvel_moviefan_2012April 28, 2014

Quote from: UncleBob

Argument: "Nintendo doesn't cater to my wants."

Response: "Go buy something else."

That is the same argument that has been hashed and rehashed since the GameCube days in some form or another.  I'm just not interested in it again.

Thats bull shit, the game cube did cater to my wants, the Wii U is not, I am curious what you like about it, seriously just name me ten games that make it worth owning, because that is why you like it right to play games, or is it you just like Nintendo and HOPE they will maybe eventually release a game or two twice a year? It is not the same GAME CUBE HAD GAMES.

Ian SaneApril 29, 2014

Within this pissing match a good point was made:

Quote from: NWR_Lindy

What I think is interesting is that Sony is "winning" right now by using Nintendo's playbook. That being, "provide games that appeal to everyone".  Nintendo's various decisions have pretty much backed them into the corner of their systems appealing to existing Nintendo fans and few others (with the sales numbers backing that up).

"Nintendo makes games for everyone" is a historical reputation that I think Nintendo has lost sight of.  I think their rep is more "games for the lowest common denominator" but I think that comes from a desire to make games for everyone but with Nintendo getting lost somewhere along the way.  On the N64 Nintendo often got accused of making kiddy games and while that wasn't a completely fair image, they did seem to have this mistaken assumption that because a kid-friendly game CAN be enjoyed by everyone that it appeals to everyone.  The idea that teenagers and adults might not want to play games with cutesy visuals didn't cross their minds.

This mistaken assumption continued with them expanding their audience to casuals.  They saw it as expansion, many more experienced gamers saw it more as a switch to a new audience.  Nintendo thinks a game like Wii Sports appeals to everyone because it has a low barrier of entry.  They don't pick on the fact that a more experienced gamer might find the game dull because it lacks depth and complexity.

The Wii and Wii U are both designed to, at least in theory, have a low barrier of entry.  The low specs are to offer a cheap product.  The wacky controllers are to make up for the diminished specs and offer a control scheme that is theoretically more intuitive to inexperienced players.  They're making the mistaken assumption that a low barrier of entry is the same thing as making a product for everyone because anyone can play it.  The problem is they're really making a beginner or casual product, the videogame equivalent of those Squire guitars you can buy in a box at Wal-Mart.  They're ironically being TOO inclusive where their product actually becomes more specialized to a specific audience.

But Sony gets this "everyone" approach and unlike Nintendo seems to know how to actually implement it.  And it makes sense that they would figure this out because they had "everyone" consoles with the PS1 and PS2 and then screwed it all up by making the PS3 more of a luxury item.  Once the price came down it became more of an "everyone" product and bounced back.  They screwed up and they learned.  The "everyone" console is a great idea and is exactly what Nintendo should make but they don't know how to implement that strategy correctly anymore.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorApril 29, 2014

GameCube had games you wanted.
Wii U doesn't.

So... buy something that has games you want.  What is so hard to understand about that?

I could list off the Wii U games I've purchased and what I like about them.  I could go into detail about the downloadable stuff that I've bought and enjoyed.  I could go on and on and rehash everything that's already out there in reviews, news articles, other forum posts... but none of it is going to change your mind.

Do I think the Wii U is a wonder machine that everyone should own and you're stupid if you don't and it's perfect for everything and everyone?  No.  Are there issues with the machine, the marketing and beyond?  Sure.  Does it suit *my* wants more than a PS4 and an XBox One?  Yes.  And that's why I bought it and that's why I'm happy with it.

If it's not giving you what you want (either because your tastes have changed or because you think Nintendo has changed) - then don't buy one.  Buy a PS4 or XBox One.  But don't sit there and act like I'm in the wrong because I enjoy my Wii U and that I owe you some kind of explanation as to why I enjoy it.  I owe you nothing.

Buy the system that gives you what you want.  Play games on that system.  Be happy with the games you're playing.  It's that easy.

I liked the soda Josta.  It was my favorite soda of all time.  I would seriously do a happy dance if Pepsi brought it back.  But they haven't and they're not going to.  Now, I could deny myself any soda because Pepsi isn't providing me with what I want.  I could go on Pepsi-websites and write multi-paragraph rants about how Pepsi isn't the company they used to be because they don't provide me with what I want.  But I don't.  I find something that serves my wants in the place of Josta, drink it, and be happy.  Am I as happy as I would be with a nice, cold Josta?  No.  But I'm much happier than I would be if I denied myself any soda or if I spent all my time focused on negative things like not having Josta.

Argument: "Nintendo doesn't cater to my wants."

Response: "Go buy something else."

smallsharkbigbiteApril 29, 2014

-@Adrock, I didn't twist your words.  I've been very clear that I think your reply #99 was an attacking thread that incited several responses including mine.


I must be missing the joke in that post because you continue to argue you are the victim here, so I guess I'm the inciter. 

JoshuaJSloneApril 29, 2014

Wii U is a sales turd, but slightly less of one than you make out. GameCube had shipped 9.5 million through _March_, while Wii U was at nearly 6 million through _December_. We don't have a number for Wii U through March yet, and back in 2003 they weren't reporting numbers every quarter so we don't have GameCube through December either.

Quote from: JoshuaJSlone

Wii U is a sales turd, but slightly less of one than you make out. GameCube had shipped 9.5 million through _March_, while Wii U was at nearly 6 million through _December_. We don't have a number for Wii U through March yet, and back in 2003 they weren't reporting numbers every quarter so we don't have GameCube through December either.

That's what we said in the original article that this comments thread is attached to.

To be more specific, Wii U sold 5.86 million units as of December 2013. By estimates, they might/maybe/possibly could be around 6 million units as of March 31, 2014.

We do know that Wii U has sold, at best, somewhere in the ballpark of 200k units in North America in Jan through Mar. That's likely the best-selling region for the system. I'll be surprised if the Wii U crosses 6m for the entire fiscal year.

Quote from: Ian

Within this pissing match a good point was made

Lord knows I tried to derail this thread back onto something that wasn't a pissing match.

I think Nintendo's philosophy of "making games for everyone" still stands. However, they only apply it to their own games and have lost sight of the fact that other companies (third-parties) can help them in this way as well. Too much navel-gazing and inward-looking from them (and that extends to other boats that they've missed over the past decade, like the rise of online multiplayer and smartphone anything).

Mop it upApril 30, 2014

The GameCube was a disappointment for me. Super Smash Brothers Melee and Metroid Prime are about the only two games that made it worth owning, and without them I would have regretted buying one and probably would have sold it off. I've come to appreciate it a bit more in retrospect, but it's still one of my least-favourite systems.

The Wii U may be a similar case, though. Mario Kart 8 is the reason I have one, and to a lessor extent the new Smash Brothers. The reason I bought one early was because I won some extra money from a casino, so I figured I'd play a few other games on the system in the mean time.

Quote from: Adrock

I've mainly been responding when me or my posts have implicitly been addressed. Such as:

Quote from: Mop

So I say the same thing as Arbock

Oh wait, that isn't about me.

Oh, I'm sorry. I guess the "r" and the "d" are a little too close together... Except wait, that's a "b." Maybe I was thinking of the user Arbok? Hm, I'm probably just making it worse by explaining...

pokepal148May 01, 2014
smallsharkbigbiteMay 01, 2014

Quote from: NWR_Lindy

I think Nintendo's philosophy of "making games for everyone" still stands.

I think sometimes they apply it to their own detriment.  I.E. MK8 not having in game chat.  That's pretty much standard for every system.  There concern is obviously kids hearing things they shouldn't hear.  That's a valid concern, but they should have more parental lock features that can remove chat for children rather than strip a feature that a large portion of people would like.  You could make it the default off feature for parents that are too lazy to set up a game, but ultimately if parents decide they don't care if their 8 year old hears all that is going to be said on the internet then there isn't much you can do.  Nintendo can't be a parent for the parent. 


I also think making games for everybody may require multiple games to satisfy the demands of all groups.  I.E. Eternal Darkness.  That game was awesome and I'd love to see a sequel but current day Nintendo seems unlikely to try another game similar to that.  Tastes are just too unique nowadays to expect more than a few types of games to really target everybody.  I'd like to see Nintendo say yeah, we have some games that target everybody, but we also want to strive to satisfy people that want games that have more unique demands too. 

Ian SaneMay 01, 2014

Quote from: smallsharkbigbite

I think sometimes they apply it to their own detriment.  I.E. MK8 not having in game chat.  That's pretty much standard for every system.  There concern is obviously kids hearing things they shouldn't hear.  That's a valid concern, but they should have more parental lock features that can remove chat for children rather than strip a feature that a large portion of people would like.  You could make it the default off feature for parents that are too lazy to set up a game, but ultimately if parents decide they don't care if their 8 year old hears all that is going to be said on the internet then there isn't much you can do.  Nintendo can't be a parent for the parent. 

That's a great example.  Even if they're thinking that Mario Kart is a kid-friendly series, and it is and should remain so, they don't have a more grown-up racing series that isn't concerned about protecting kids.  There is no Nintendo equivalent of Gran Turismo or Forza Motorsport.  They have F-Zero but that doesn't sell like Mario Kart so they don't bother with that anymore.  They could be excused for playing down to the lowest common denominator in their more family-friendly games IF they offered more games for older audiences but they don't.  So Mario Kart isn't the kids racing game with the restrictive voice chat it's the "everyone" racing game that's supposed to also be for adults but forces them to deal with restrictions as if they were also kids.

I think it's pretty ridiculous to attribute the lack of in-game voice chat in Mario Kart to a desire to protect kids. I'm pretty sure they could run into whatever worst-case scenario you want to come up with in the pre-game lobbies. If anything, that would be worse, because there's no pesky gameplay to distract everyone from that kind of thing.

smallsharkbigbiteMay 01, 2014

I thought lobbies were friend code only chat minimizing risk of a children hearing things they shouldn't. Honestly I'm open to ideas on why it wasnt included, but I can only come up with protecting children. It also seems consistent with other Nintendo decisions to me.

Black ops 2 does in game chat on the Wii U so it is certainly possible. Is your thought Nintendo is lazy or doesn't think it's important?  Among the list of available choices I don't think children is ridiculous.

I was saying that it doesn't make sense to say that's why it's in the lobbies but not during gameplay. Limiting it to friends is likely at least somewhat due to that. Honestly, I'd probably never want to voice chat with people I didn't already know, so that's not really relevant to me.

smallsharkbigbiteMay 01, 2014

Having moved several hours from some of my best friends it would be very appealing to me. Heck, I usually only get about an hour of time after I put my kids to bed so it would be appealing for my local friends too.

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Honestly, I'd probably never want to voice chat with people I didn't already know, so that's not really relevant to me.

For me, that's the irony of it: Wii U is the platform where I have BY FAR the most people I'd like to voice chat with.

BnuyenMay 17, 2014

Everyone keeps complaining about the WiiU.The 3DS was gonna flop too, remember people? BOOM Ya'll couldn't have been more wrong.STFU and stop telling Nintendo what to do with the WiiU.It's Nintendo. You know they got Aces up their sleeves ready.

bnuyen you are wrong their hadnhelds have always sold strongly their consoles have not always bounced back and 3DS HAS the third party support Wii U is lacking so your dilusional.

ejamerMay 17, 2014

Quote from: NWR_Lindy

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Honestly, I'd probably never want to voice chat with people I didn't already know, so that's not really relevant to me.

For me, that's the irony of it: Wii U is the platform where I have BY FAR the most people I'd like to voice chat with.

I agree with both quotes here, and find it very frustrating that Nintendo STILL can't manage to get voice chat into their games in a more meaningful way.

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