Wii

'No Plans' to Release Xenoblade, Last Story, Pandora's Tower in North America

by James Jones - June 29, 2011, 7:29 pm PDT
Total comments: 112 Source: http://www.facebook.com/Nintendo/posts/12608968414..., Nintendo via Facebook

A post on Nintendo's official Facebook page will disappoint participants in the Operation Rainfall campaign.

Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower aren't coming to North America. After a short period of silence, Nintendo followed up on their promise to comment on the efforts of fans to convince them to release the trio of Wii titles with a posting on their official Facebook page.

"Thank you for your enthusiasm. We promised an update, so here it is. We never say 'never,' but we can confirm that there are no plans to bring these three games to the Americas at this time. Thanks so much for your passion, and for being such great fans!"

This response comes as a major disappointment to fans who have been attempting to convince Nintendo of America via a campaign of letter writing, emails, Facebook posts, tweets, and even pre-orders that they collectively dubbed "Operation Rainfall." Their efforts garnered significant media coverage, even in Japan. Despite Nintendo's acknowledgement of their efforts, so far they seem to have been unsuccessful. Operation Rainfall will continue with a targeted letter campaign set to span the month of July.

This news came only one day after Nintendo of Europe announced a September 2 release date and a special Classic Controller Pro bundle for game. This also follows last week's news that not only would Europe be getting Xenoblade Chronicles, but the region will also get Mistwalker's The Last Story.

Talkback

broodwarsJune 30, 2011

What a coincidence!  I will never say 'never', but I can confirm that I have no plans to buy a Wii U or a 3DS from Nintendo of America at this time.  Thanks so much for your utter lack of passion, and for being such a douche of a company division!  Even Nintendo of Australia is outperforming you, and that is saying something!

I'm also seriously considering doing something that I really don't want to do: wait and buy Skyward Sword used and ignore the Virtual Console/WiiWare for the rest of this console generation.  I'm really disinclined to give Nintendo of America a dime of my cash for the rest of this generation.

This is the same position they took at E3. "No plans" is a non-commitment. If they were actually considering a release for these games, however unlikely that seems, they would say this same phrase right up to the announcement. See: Presidential candidates.

broodwarsJune 30, 2011

Quote from: Jonnyboy117

This is the same position they took at E3. "No plans" is a non-commitment. If they were actually considering a release for these games, however unlikely that seems, they would say this same phrase right up to the announcement. See: Presidential candidates.

Would that make NoA Rudy Guliani then circa 2008 Republican nomination bid?  Doing nothing for months on end while their rivals (NoE and Nintendo of Australia) do all the work and gain all the support, inevitably causing their campaign to collapse when they try to half-ass it at the last minute?

Kytim89June 30, 2011

This is perhaps one of the most dissapointing moments in gaming history fo me. Nintendo of America has basically said "Fuck YOU" to all of its fans in north America. As a loyal fan of Nintendo, I have to say that my blood is boiling. This is truelly one of Nintendo's low points, and that says alot. How can Nintendo claim to be wanting to cater core gamers and at the same time cut its primary market out of the share of good games.

As a result of this conundrum, all Nintendo fans should boycott Nintendo. Do not buy Skyward Sword for two months post realse and do not buy any of their products new, but used. I will certaibly buy the 3DS used at this pooint because I fell cheated by Nintendo.

I also call for the resignation of Reggie Fils-aimme. If he is the one responsible then he must go. We need a president in NoA that will pander to American audiences. One that will give us what we wnat as gamers, which is good quality titles for our systems.

*Cancels pre-order for Skyward Sword.*

Sorry, but I can not play one good title and be reminded that of the three that willbe inside my Wii console unless I resort to piracy, which seems increasingly  tantalizing at the moment.

happyastoriaJune 30, 2011

The last game I played on the Wii was Lost in Shadow, that was about 6 months ago. I'm sorry, but **** the Wii U, and **** Nintendo! Hell, RFN can't go an episode without mentioning a non-Nintendo related game! Nintendo can't be that dense!

By the way, the new Zelda game looks like ****.

I was deciding to get a 3DS or 360 next month. I now know my choice! 360 all the way! Why? Well, it's pretty simple - the 360 has games!

Kytim89June 30, 2011

Sony and Microsoft would habe given north America these games.

broodwarsJune 30, 2011

Quote from: Kytim89

Sony and Microsoft would habe given north America these games.

Maybe, maybe not.  But they would have allowed a company like Atlus to release them in North America instead (see Demon Souls on PS3, a game that was published by Sony in Japan).

I just don't understand NoA here. I wouldn't like it, but I would understand if Nintendo as a company wasn't releasing these games outside of America.  None of them performed well in Japan, so it's just not good business sense.  However, these games are being released in seemingly every region but North America and will already be localized in the appropriate languages for NA release.  The only reason I can think of for why NoA won't join in the fun is that they simply don't care about ending one generation and starting another on the right foot with their fans.

EnnerJune 30, 2011

Ouch.


Sad to hear this, though I'm not quite as angry about as the some of the above are. I only got my Wii last year so I do have older games out there that I haven't gotten to yet. Still, I like the what I see from Xenoblade, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower and I hoped that there would be a North American release.

TalesOfFanJames Dawson, AlumnusJune 30, 2011

I really have no shortage of games to play on the Wii at the moment and I've had it since launch, but I am a little upset that we won't be getting these. I was really looking forward to Pandora's Tower.

broodwarsJune 30, 2011

Quote from: Enner

Ouch.


Sad to hear this, though I'm not quite as angry about as the some of the above are. I only got my Wii last year so I do have older games out there that I haven't gotten to yet. Still, I like the what I see from Xenoblade, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower and I hoped that there would be a North American release.

The big problem in all this is that it does not bode well for Nintendo of America supporting the Wii U.  After a big E3 Press Conference where they hyped that they wanted us all to come back to them, they turn around and refuse to release games that the core audience cares about...despite NoE picking up the tab for all of them, leaving NoA with just manufacturing and advertising costs.  How can you take them seriously after this?

Kytim89June 30, 2011

The best thing we can do is keep bombarding NoA with letters and raising hell until they give into our demands. I say we all have a million man march on NoA head quarters.

Quote from: broodwars

Even Nintendo of Australia is outperforming you, and that is saying something!

Hmm... I wouldn't go that far, that's plummeting into territory you can't come back from.
We get an occasional special edition of something, and sometimes a game or two that doesn't come out in the states, but overall the situation is pretty devastating here. Games often arrive six months late, sometimes (like in the case of Trauma Center or Phoenix Wright) up to two years later than the rest of the world, and they insist on charging double the US retail price. We still have no R ratings classification so anything with more than a few drops of blood or exposed cleavage immediately gets banned.
Not to mention, the state of the DSi shop and the eStore down here. Literally half the titles that the rest of the world gets, no 3D E3 trailers to watch, no DSi trailers to watch, NO SHANTAE, and once again the games costing more, in the case of the eShop it's triple the price of US titles. Link's Awakening cost $9 here, that's more than SNES games cost on Wii's VC.

I'm glad I imported my 3DS, honestly. If anyone wants to resort to homebrew channel to play the UK versions of these games, I'm sure eBay can provide. Homebrew channel is free, easy to install and safer than modding.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJune 30, 2011

So much emo in this thread.

Gonna go cut myself now.

It's funny, because if these games came out in North America, they'd probably sell like crap. The only way this can be disproved to me is if Xenoblade sets the European sales charts ablaze. The odds of that happening are slim to none. NoA might have handled this somewhat poorly, but let's get real: these games wouldn't sell if they were the only games on Wii right now (which they would've been! badumching!).

broodwarsJune 30, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

It's funny, because if these games came out in North America, they'd probably sell like crap. The only way this can be disproved to me is if Xenoblade sets the European sales charts ablaze. The odds of that happening are slim to none. NoA might have handled this somewhat poorly, but let's get real: these games wouldn't sell if they were the only games on Wii right now (which they would've been! badumching!).

I've said from the very beginning that these games would sell poorly.  They did in Japan, and they will everywhere else.  The thing is, NoA could pull an Atlus and announce that they're bringing these over as "special limited editions" (with very limited runs), and they'd probably make some profit out of this, especially since NoE is paying some of the more egregious costs already.  And at this point, Nintendo needs every bit of good press and good relations with their future Wii U customers that they can get, even if that means taking a modest loss on at least Last Story and Xenoblade.

Really, if Atlus and NISA can find a way to make people buy games like Demon Souls; Disgaea; Hyperdimension Neptunia; Personas 3 and 4; and Catherine in the US, Nintendo of America has no excuse with Last Story, a game made by the guy who did Final Fantasy.

Kytim89June 30, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

It's funny, because if these games came out in North America, they'd probably sell like crap. The only way this can be disproved to me is if Xenoblade sets the European sales charts ablaze. The odds of that happening are slim to none. NoA might have handled this somewhat poorly, but let's get real: these games wouldn't sell if they were the only games on Wii right now (which they would've been! badumching!).


Xenoblade will sell like hot cakes in Europe because of all the Americans importing the game to play on their homebrewed Wiis.

@broodwars

Totally agree. I kind of wish they'd just let Atlus, XSEED, and Ignition each take a game to publish in North America. They could make a game out of the game's releases. I just wish I had more faith in NoA to 1) release these games and 2) if they ever do, actually put effort behind their release. All NoA knows now is marketing to the fickle Wii Sports/Wii Fit audience and how to let down their die-hard fans at the end of console cycles.

The Last Story was even co-developed by AQ Interactive. Who owns XSEED? AQ Interactive.

Brilliant, so I buy a US Wii and Nintendo of Europe suddenly pulls their finger out and becomes better than NOA.


Sods Law at its finest.

NinSageJune 30, 2011

Hey all,

Quick question ...

I've never claimed to understand the complexities of who has the right to publish X if it is developed by Y.  So, can someone detail why a seperate publisher couldn't speak up and offer to publish some or all of these games?

Seems like smaller publishers would kill for the kind of exposure Operation Rainfall has gotten these games.

Thanks in advance!

Killer_Man_JaroTom Malina, Associate Editor (Europe)June 30, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

I've never claimed to understand the complexities of who has the right to publish X if it is developed by Y.  So, can someone detail why a seperate publisher couldn't speak up and offer to publish some or all of these games?

Seems like smaller publishers would kill for the kind of exposure Operation Rainfall has gotten these games.

All three of the games in question were published in Japan by Nintendo, so if a smaller publisher wanted to take it, they'd probably have to enter negotiations and work out a deal before they are allowed to publish it elsewhere.

broodwarsJune 30, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

Hey all,

Quick question ...

I've never claimed to understand the complexities of who has the right to publish X if it is developed by Y.  So, can someone detail why a seperate publisher couldn't speak up and offer to publish some or all of these games?

Seems like smaller publishers would kill for the kind of exposure Operation Rainfall has gotten these games.

Thanks in advance!

If I remember correctly, Atlus has come forward and said that they would bring one or more of these games over if if Nintendo corporate would let them.  Unfortunately, Nintendo probably owns the publishing rights to these titles outside of Japan.  For another company to publish them in North America, Nintendo has to sell them the publishing rights, and Nintendo probably doesn't want to do that in case these titles actually end up being some kind of hit.  Besides, it would really expose how terrible Nintendo of America's marketing consistently is if Atlus were able to turn The Last Story into a mega-hit in NA when NoA couldn't do that with Metroid Other M and so many other titles this generation.

leroypantweatherJune 30, 2011

i will play these games, and now i will do so with an extra 150 dollars in my pocket...no hard feelings nintendo you did your best  :'(

Piracy is not a legitimate response. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Boycott Nintendo if you want because of this, but, frankly, they will not notice / make the correlation. If Wii U doesn't sell, it will be on its own (de)merits.

MaxiJune 30, 2011

I'm going to mention a few things that may make sense to you guys and gals.

First of all boycotting any and all Nintendo products from this point forward will have a negative effect.Why you might ask? Well it is because if you boycott Nintendo's games then they might as well not bring out any new IPs to the west.You will be basically be getting the well known titles like Mario,Zelda,and Metriod and the like again.This type of response from Nintendo will in turn be interpretted by Nintendo fans that Nintendo never has any New IPs and essentually this whole forum will be Ian Sane's running around here.

Secondly the if you decide to boycott the title 3rd parties will either look at the Nintendo fanbase as a bunch of people that has to have their way or they are going to complain about things. This will cause 3rd parties to respond in two ways. Either they will fill the void of games missing in the lineup or they will take the games away from the Wii U. Which will essentually leave hardly any games for the Wii U. It will essentually be like in the N64 era as far as game droughts.

Now for me personally I still have lots of games I need to get for the Wii still. To those that are complaining.Do you have every single Wii game you want at this point in time? If not then I suggest you go out and get them since the Wii U will be coming out in about a year.

ShyGuyJune 30, 2011

Protest outside of Nintendo headquarters in Redmond. Start a picket line and yell "scab!" at people who cross the line.

EnnerJune 30, 2011

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: Enner

Ouch.

Sad to hear this, though I'm not quite as angry about as the some of the above are. I only got my Wii last year so I do have older games out there that I haven't gotten to yet. Still, I like the what I see from Xenoblade, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower and I hoped that there would be a North American release.

The big problem in all this is that it does not bode well for Nintendo of America supporting the Wii U.  After a big E3 Press Conference where they hyped that they wanted us all to come back to them, they turn around and refuse to release games that the core audience cares about...despite NoE picking up the tab for all of them, leaving NoA with just manufacturing and advertising costs.  How can you take them seriously after this?

Short answer would be that I never took Nintendo of America too seriously. It sucks that things have changed since the days I hear about Nintendo of America picking up some of the tab to get Tales of Symphonia (GCN) for North America.

As for audiences, I'm guessing Nintendo of America has a specific definition of the core audience and it doesn't include JRPGs. It would be nice if they shift the games to a different publisher who has an accommodating definition.

Maybe be I should be more angry because I would like to see these games come out in North America. Also, publishers such as Atlus and Nippon Ichi have demonstrated that success is possible with smaller profile Japanese games. Finally, there aren't many other meaty games coming out for North American Wiis. There is really no good reason that one of these games can't come out in North America (Perhaps there is a hefty license fee, but still....). Bah, I don't want to waste time and effort of getting mad at Nintendo of America for not giving me a few games that look interesting that I would probably buy months after release when they get discounted. There are bunch of other games that share a similar situation to Xenoblade, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower to me; I didn't get extremely miffed on those either. The fact that Xenoblade and The Last Story have come far closer than those other games only just makes it more disappointing to me.

Oh well, there are other upcoming North America game releases to anticipate. Damn shame that there aren't more from Nintendo.

Everyone saying that Nintendo should do something that would certainly lose them money clearly aren't at all familiar with the company. This is about money. It always has been. You're reading way too much into this if you think it has anything to do with how they'll support the 3DS or Wii U.

SundoulosJune 30, 2011

Losing money on these games isn't a given; as others have said, Nintendo could either license it to a company like Aksys or at least make a limited release to test the waters.  The puzzling thing is that even in relatively recent history Nintendo has  published games with limited audiences in the past, such as Chibi Robo, Odama, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Baten Kaitos 2 and arguably Dragon Quest VI.  Last year, they chose to help with the publishing and marketing of Monster Hunter Tri...  So, I wonder what's changed between now and then?  It doesn't really make sense to me.  Arguably, they're in a better market position now than when they released the many of those other games...maybe that's the difference.

Frankly, a built-in hype machine seems to be forming around these games;  is there a legitimate business reason why wouldn't Nintendo take advantage of that?  Who's to say that any one of them wouldn't turn a profit?  For all we know, the Wii U is still nearly 1 to 1.5 years away.  That Wii release list looks pretty sparse.  If I cared about anything they're planning to release other than Skyward Sword, I probably wouldn't be this troubled by it.

I know it's not Nintendo's MO, but in this case I do think it would behoove them to provide more communication to their fans than this.  The big problem with their response here is that between their apparent marketing of the Wii U and their response to a very motivated fanbase, they're sending mixed messages to their overall audience.  The way they've handled this situation so far seems as if they're answering from an ivory tower.  It's a good opportunity to build good will and reinforce fan loyalty, and honestly, they're throwing it away.

I'm not surprised by this response from NOA, and I don't plan to "cut off my nose to spite my face" by either making a self-professed "ban on Nintendo" or by refusing to buy a 3DS or Wii U.  Frankly, I would like to play games on both; but, frankly, it does give me serious pause about being an early adopter of either system.  Honestly, since at least one of my kids is getting close to the age where he can start playing games, I most definitely will probably start basing many more of my gaming/purchasing choices for him, anyway.

Still, if I cared more about more of the games that the other two systems were publishing, yes, they probably would get my money first.  (Still waiting on The Last Guardian, Sony!!!)

AdrockJune 30, 2011

This is certainly disappointing but I'm not boycotting anything. I'll admit that I was certain months ago that at least Xenoblade and The Last Story would make it over due to the caliber of talent behind those games (though Mistwalker's Archaic Sealed Heat didn't). This isn't that surprising. These  are core titles for a niche subset. Unless it's Final Fantasy, you're not looking at killer sales in this genre. As we all know, there are other ways they can be brought over which is probably the worst part about this situation. A total bummer but I'll live and I'm certainly not going to refuse purchasing Skyward Sword as some silly form of protest. All that accomplishes is me NOT playing the newest Zelda game. F that noise.

Quote from: Sundoulos

The puzzling thing is that even in relatively recent history Nintendo has  published games with limited audiences in the past, such as Chibi Robo, Odama, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn, Baten Kaitos 2

Three of those were GameCube games. The fourth came out in the Wii's first year. That's not recent history.

Quote:

and arguably Dragon Quest VI.  Last year, they chose to help with the publishing and marketing of Monster Hunter Tri...  So, I wonder what's changed between now and then?

Both of those games were very successful in Japan. These titles are not.

Quote:

Arguably, they're in a better market position now than when they released the many of those other games

Not really. There are more Wiis out there, but Wii software sales are way down.

Quote:

Frankly, a built-in hype machine seems to be forming around these games;  is there a legitimate business reason why wouldn't Nintendo take advantage of that?

While at least somewhat impressive, the hype surrounding the games isn't anywhere close to big enough to be a factor in this.

Quote:

It's a good opportunity to build good will and reinforce fan loyalty, and honestly, they're throwing it away.

Nintendo is certainly facing problems, but losing fan loyalty isn't realistically one of them. Nintendo has the most loyal fan base of any game company, and they know it. Effectively no one will actually stop buying Nintendo products for any real length of time because of this.

CericJune 30, 2011

This is whats wrong with US in general.  Congress can do want they want because they are not really accountable to their Citizenship.  NoA can do what they want because they are not really accountable to their Citizenship.

I like to be able to play Pandora's tower and I have an interest in Xenoblade but, I love my Nintendo Community and I will support these efforts because that is what the Community wants.  Its not really about the games anymore, is it, honestly? 

Its about wanting to be heard and taken into account. 
Its about wanting to have variety. 
Its about wanting parity. 
Its about wanting the respect that Loyalty Truly deserves.

At the beginning all NoA had to do was offer a means to get the European versions for this region.  Be that Club Nintendo, special order, etc.  Now I don't think the Community would be happy without a full Retail Release.  We can have Shovelware but we can't have Niche Titles? 

The shear Variety of games on the PS2 is what made it so popular.  XBLA on 360 with its epic variety helps the 360.  Nintendo seems to be refusing to have this variety.  Much like a TV Station that will only show Mega-hits but, have nothing other times but syndicated junk.

What is bringing new dedicated Nintendo Fans into the fold?  Into are Faith if you will. 

I would argue that the the N64 and GCN had brought more people to the loyalist side then the Wii even though it did bring more people in general.  A stream may seem to be nothing to a Boulder but over time the stream will make it a boulder no more.

Quote from: Ceric

What is bringing new dedicated Nintendo Fans into the fold?  Into are Faith if you will. 

Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, etc.

CericJune 30, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

Quote from: Ceric

What is bringing new dedicated Nintendo Fans into the fold?  Into are Faith if you will. 

Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, etc.

Can I get 2 Forumers to Comment that they joined and became active in this community because of the Wii versions of those games.

Because of those games and because of Operation Rainfall are two different things. Some people just dig controversy.

OpRainfall has all this support, but I guarantee that if these games ever come out, more than half of the people upset about this won't get the games.

How many people are lifelong Nintendo fans because of Baten Kaitos and Odama?

CericJune 30, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

Because of those games and because of Operation Rainfall are two different things. Some people just dig controversy.

OpRainfall has all this support, but I guarantee that if these games ever come out, more than half of the people upset about this won't get the games.

How many people are lifelong Nintendo fans because of Baten Kaitos and Odama?

Slightly different Beast but I do know 1.  Probably the only one though.

I can also guarantee that as well because of the reasons I stated earlier.  Though how many people do you have to have to make this game not a loss?

I can't believe it would be a super lot.  Especially if you made the first run only be enough for the converted pre-orders and maybe 1-2 extra copy.  Heck, don't include the CCPro either.

Some things you do not because they'll net you a huge physical profit but, it gets you mindscape, "Good" Press ,and won't incur a loss.

Though the ship has sailed for this to be one of those things.  The Damage is done and NoA will not give in more than likely because the benefits are now way smaller then they were.  That doesn't mean that they should just sit their and let all this just keep battering them.  Finding a way to redirect the fandom into something more positive should be a goal now.

Bman87301June 30, 2011

Relax people, this isn't as bad as it seems. My suggestion is to keep sending your letters and keep pre-ordering Monado. Even if NOA doesn't reconsider (which they very well still could if the fans don't back down), that still doesn't mean other publishers won't pick them up-- especially in the case of Xenoblade-- the money's already on the table, so someone's going to want to cash it in. I'm convinced Xenoblade is already guaranteed to come stateside from someone, unless people start being stupid and begin cancelling their preorders.

I actually see NOA's statement as a good sign-- I see this as their way of testing us to see if we start backing down. They realize the Amazon preorders aren't guaranteed sales, as people can just cancel their preorders once Xenoblade gets a release date, and this whole movement could just turn out to be smoke and mirrors by a small, yet very organized niche (which actually could be the case).

They wouldn't bother commenting on the matter at all if they weren't taking this serious. We've already made them flinch-- don't get discouraged, keep it up!

NeoStar9XJune 30, 2011

This certainly does suck. As I said before it will affect how I go about the Wii U. I've calmed down from my initial reaction last night but this was to be expected. Like many companies it's all about the money with Nintendo but I think this does hurt their credibility some when it comes to the Wii U. For the longest time I've looked to my Nintendo consoles as my primary ones. Foolish I know but I happen to like their IPs more so then any other company. Have since the NES. Though no longer. Will I write off Nintendo completely? I don't think so after thinking things over. However they will no longer take a prominent spot in my gaming. They've moved down the list in terms of the console space.

I'll get the Wii U when there are enough games on it that warrant the purchase. Until then I'll be focusing more on my PS3, 360, 3DS, PC. Do I trust Nintendo? No. Perhaps I shouldn't have as I'm just a number to them in the grand scheme of things. If I boycott it will mean nothing. So I'll still buy Zelda as I like Zelda. Will I mod my system to play these games now? I don't think so. To much trouble to do something I shouldn't have to. I simply don't care any longer. Will I hope the Wii U does well? Nah. What happens to it happens to and it's on Nintendo's head. I no longer feel any "desire" to support them. Maybe I never should have. I'll buy the products that are out and that will be that. I'll no longer hope for anything from them.

CericJune 30, 2011

Quote from: NeoStar9X

This certainly does suck. As I said before it will affect how I go about the Wii U. I've calmed down from my initial reaction last night but this was to be expected. Like many companies it's all about the money with Nintendo but I think this does hurt their credibility some when it comes to the Wii U. For the longest time I've looked to my Nintendo consoles as my primary ones. Foolish I know but I happen to like their IPs more so then any other company. Have since the NES. Though no longer. Will I write off Nintendo completely? I don't think so after thinking things over. However they will no longer take a prominent spot in my gaming. They've moved down the list in terms of the console space.

I'll get the Wii U when there are enough games on it that warrant the purchase. Until then I'll be focusing more on my PS3, 360, 3DS, PC. Do I trust Nintendo? No. Perhaps I shouldn't have as I'm just a number to them in the grand scheme of things. If I boycott it will mean nothing. So I'll still buy Zelda as I like Zelda. Will I mod my system to play these games now? I don't think so. To much trouble to do something I shouldn't have to. I simply don't care any longer. Will I hope the Wii U does well? Nah. What happens to it happens to and it's on Nintendo's head. I no longer feel any "desire" to support them. Maybe I never should have. I'll buy the products that are out and that will be that. I'll no longer hope for anything from them.

That really is a loss for Nintendo, especially having a more Multi-platform friendly system coming.  How long till they stop becoming the Icon of gaming?

Retro DeckadesJune 30, 2011

It's true what some people are saying about the Wii U and loyalty to the company in general.

For whatever reason, I tend to have strong brand loyalties -- with Nintendo, it's fierce. I've been with them since the NES, and I don't plan on changing now. However, when it comes to rewarding my loyalty I feel that they haven't done a terrible job. Sure, it may have taken them a little longer than I would have liked to introduce Club Nintendo to NA, but the bottom line is that they really don't HAVE to do anything. However, I definitely believe that it's in their best interest as a company to do so.

That being said, I believe that it's incredibly short-sighted of them not to reward the loyal fans by delivering games such as Xenoblade and The Last Story to us here in North America because us loyal fans are the ones who will be buying the Wii U. If Nintendo thinks for a moment that all of the casual gamers who bought Wiis and keep Mario Kart Wii and Wii Fit atop the sales charts will feel compelled to purchase a Wii U, I think they will be disappointed. I have very little doubt that those people have no brand loyalty to Nintendo because gaming is probably not something that they take seriously. They will most likely have picked up an XBOX 360 with a Kinect by this point, if anything, and I don't think they'll see the reason to pick up a Wii U for Mario Kart or New Super Mario Bros. because they figure they already have them.

NeoStar9XJune 30, 2011

Quote from: Ceric

That really is a loss for Nintendo, especially having a more Multi-platform friendly system coming.  How long till they stop becoming the Icon of gaming?

I know I'm just one person and what I feel or do really doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Nintendo won't hurt or even know. Just wanted to post my feelings on the situation.

CericJune 30, 2011

Quote from: NeoStar9X

Quote from: Ceric

That really is a loss for Nintendo, especially having a more Multi-platform friendly system coming.  How long till they stop becoming the Icon of gaming?

I know I'm just one person and what I feel or do really doesn't matter in the scheme of things. Nintendo won't hurt or even know. Just wanted to post my feelings on the situation.

Calling Family Guy fans.

Their was an episode where someone called the FCC and made a complaint.  They then extrapolated it out because so few people have the guts to make that call where that 1 person really represented something like 1,000 people.

This is actually done for ratings and like because you can't survey everyone, even though cable systems and Internet TV do allow for this but, that doesn't get over-the-air people etc.

For every 1 active poster on this forum I'm fairly sure their are 5-10 lurkers at least.  Being just one person publicly voicing that opinion is really equivalent to more then just 1 person.  What you feel does matter in the Grand Scheme of things.  That's where it truly does matter.  Now in the more local scheme of things you're probably right.

Just to everyone in general.  What we do matter.  Our opinions are valid.  Don't ever think otherwise.  I will disagree with you and be perplexed by your inconsistency but, I will also agree with you and act on what you say.  Overall, I will probably enjoy the trip.

Ian SaneJune 30, 2011

My beef with this in entirely that there is NOTHING on the Wii right now.  Nintendo has a new console due next year and they obviously want existing Wii owners to buy a Wii U.  Therefore, even if these games wouldn't sell that well, there is some value in having some Wii releases to fill the gaps.  At the very least it gives the impression that the Wii is still a healthy console.  It keeps some momentum.  It has the gaming press covering the Wii with some reviews at least.  The Wii U launch is probably at least a year away.  Between now and then Nintendo is going to have, what, two console games released in that entire time?  That will just kill any momentum they have and they pretty much will have to start all over with the Wii U.  Plus they want to attract the core gamer back and this just doesn't look good from a PR perspective.

I remember when the N64 was nearly done and there were requests to have Sin & Punishment localized.  That didn't happen but it probably should have.  Between Conker's Bad Fur Day and the Gamecube launch there was a span of at least 6 months where Nintendo as a console maker was completely irrelevent.  Then they tried to start new with the Gamecube and never really got any momentum going.  Sin & Punishment was never going to be a huge hit but putting in that gap would have meant that IGN and Gamespot and the magazines at the time would have had SOMETHING to cover.  A new Nintendo game on the shelves can have the benefit of merely indicating that the system isn't finished.  Xenoblade's release doesn't just act as a game to sell but as a marketting tool just to have some activity of sorts going on the Wii front.  Something so that the Wii userbase doesn't think the Wii is finished.  Something that keeps gamers talking about the Wii.  That has some value to it.

NinSageJune 30, 2011

Quote from: Killer_Man_Jaro

...if a smaller publisher wanted to take it, they'd probably have to enter negotiations and work out a deal before they are allowed to publish it elsewhere.

I guess I just don't see why that would be so impossible. Right, fellas?

Quote from: broodwars

If I remember correctly, Atlus has come forward and said that they would bring one or more of these games over if if Nintendo corporate would let them.  Unfortunately, Nintendo probably owns the publishing rights to these titles outside of Japan.  For another company to publish them in North America, Nintendo has to sell them the publishing rights, and Nintendo probably doesn't want to do that in case these titles actually end up being some kind of hit.  Besides, it would really expose how terrible Nintendo of America's marketing consistently is if Atlus were able to turn The Last Story into a mega-hit in NA when NoA couldn't do that with Metroid Other M and so many other titles this generation.

I can't find anything like that from Atlus.  Linky link?

I don't think NoA is worried about its ability to sell Wii games =P

So you're thinking maybe NoA will just wait and see how they do in EU?
Could suck if EU sales are good due to all the importing/modding that will take place without announcements.  Then, NoA announces/releases them stateside but everyone who wanted them already has them!!

But yea, otherwise, it seems silly that NoA would find these games too niche to sell, but too mainstream to let others sell.

---

In any case, I'm not giving up! Operation Rainfall costs me very little to be part of, and the potential reward is worth it.  Not just for these three games, but for gaming in general.

Bman87301June 30, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

Quote:

and arguably Dragon Quest VI.  Last year, they chose to help with the publishing and marketing of Monster Hunter Tri...  So, I wonder what's changed between now and then?

Both of those games were very successful in Japan. These titles are not.

What are you talking about? I know The Last Story was huge in Japan. And I'm pretty sure Xenoblade and Pandora's Tower did pretty well too.

The real difference between then and now, in the case of Monster Hunter Tri, is that the Wii's lifecycle wasn't as close to the end as it is now... and Capcom still did most of the job anyway. In the case of Dragon Quest VI, it was because DQ IX sold well enough.

Regardless, DQ and Monster Hunter aren't comparable to these three games. It's like comparing a giant blockbuster (in Japan) to a small niche title. Oh wait, it is!

ejamerJune 30, 2011

Hmm... I understand people arguing that this was never going to happen because cash is king for Nintendo. As a company, they don't even do fan service unless it's profitable fan service so new IP titles are rare anyway. All of these titles are risky when it comes to selling in North America and since NoA is judged on the profits they generate the company simply isn't willing to take that risk.


But if -- at the tail end of the lifespan for one of the most successful and profitable consoles ever, at a time when neither Nintendo nor third party developers have anything else of merit to release -- they can't support fans by translating these games then it tells me that a PS3 is a better use of my money than a Wii U.  This isn't a personal or emotional reaction, it's common sense. When one vendor can't or won't provide what you want, go somewhere else. Sony has a lot of problems and makes a lot of questionable decisions, but ongoing support and refusal to import titles isn't something that PS3 gamers need to be concerned in my experience.




That said, it's disappointing that I won't have the opportunity to enjoy these games or Fatal Frame or Another Code R or Pikmin 2 NPC. At least Nintendo did release some enjoyable smaller market games like Metroid Prime Trilogy, Sin & Punishment 2, sequels to Battalion Wars and Fire Emblem, and even Excitebots (which received no support but was at least released).

CericJune 30, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

Regardless, DQ and Monster Hunter aren't comparable to these three games. It's like comparing a giant blockbuster (in Japan) to a small niche title. Oh wait, it is!

But it did take a long time for that series to come Stateside if memory serves even being successful in Japan.  Which one was the first one they released before it became pretty consistent that we were getting them?

Also RIP Excitebots.

ShyGuyJune 30, 2011

This started back with Disaster Day of Crisis and Fatal Frame 4. Don't get me started on Another Code R.

My only hope is that we can someday see these games as downloadable titles on the Wii U. Going digital would reduce Nintendo's cost and make the games a lower financial risk.

Shout out to Bill Aurion and Mother 3!

KDR_11kJune 30, 2011

Quote from: Kytim89

I say we all have a million man march on NoA head quarters.

I say there aren't even a million Nintendo fans who'd want to buy these games.

CericJune 30, 2011

Quote from: KDR_11k

Quote from: Kytim89

I say we all have a million man march on NoA head quarters.

I say there aren't even a million Nintendo fans who'd want to buy these games.

I was waiting for that but, I though it be what was bolded.

If I was closer I go on that march for the fun of it and socializing.  Which Reminds me... I need to look if PAX East dates are up yet.  I'm going to make it this time.  Though I do say that every year.
Alright April 6-8 according to Wikipedia.

If you didn't buy Excitebots, you're part of the problem.

I don't have any reasoning for that other than Excitebots is amazing. Seriously, go play it right now.

CericJune 30, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

If you didn't buy Excitebots, you're part of the problem.

I don't have any reasoning for that other than Excitebots is amazing. Seriously, go play it right now.

Second it.  Then Curse the timing on that manic circling motion.
I'm sad that the series is probably dead.

NemoJune 30, 2011

Nintendo systems have always been my primary console. I tend to buy these obscure games like Excitebots and Sin & Punishment. I don't own a 360 or PS3... but I'd say it's time for me to get a 360 since Nintendo doesn't want to release these good looking games.

I'm pretty angry about this situation, and part of me wants to "boycott Nintendo" or something. Realistically, I'll still get Nintendo products I want (like Zelda), but I'm now less excited for the Wii U (and with a 360, I probably won't get a Wii U at launch).

UltimatePartyBearJune 30, 2011

It seems to me that this would be the wrong time to give in to Operation Rainfall, anyway.  If NoA wanted to take advantage of the grass roots hype train, it should let it build up some more, especially since the fans are planning to keep a month long letter writing campaign going.

I don't think NoA is going to do anything, but Atlus or somebody else would certainly benefit from waiting a little longer to announce anything.

Personally, I'm keeping my hopes down.  I just wanted to point that out.

Boycotts are ineffective unless you can activate a majority of the customer base, which is not happening in this situation. Not even 1%.


The letter-writing campaign is actually one of the more potentially effective strategies over the past few decades of grassroots activism.

ShayminJune 30, 2011

For the people who asked about Dragon Quest VI, it got published here for the same reason Fortune Street and DQM Joker 2 (not even the expansion pak! Oi!) are coming out here: Iwata told Hori that NCL would do everything in their power to make DQ as big in the West as it is in Japan. That's a directive coming down from the top.

Now, why they haven't taken that same tack with Xenoblade/TLS is beyond me, especially since they're all about competing with other forms of entertainment and I've definitely cut down on the TV I watch since I suddenly developed Lindemann Syndrome for JRPGs.

If only they could make a deal with Square Enix to market them as:
Final Fantasy Blade
Final Fantasy Story
Final Fantasy Tower

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJuly 01, 2011

Quote from: ShyGuy

Don't get me started on Another Code R.

Apparently, Another Code R is stupid and no one cares about it.

AIN'T THAT RIGHT, KARLIE?!?!?!?!?
::MAD::

GalfordJuly 01, 2011

Wow my login still works.

Nintendo at E3 stated they were looking to get core gamers back.  Even if these games didn't sell well it would give the perception Nintendo is listening.  With NoA giving the response it has I don't think Nintendo wants core gamers back, and core gamers tend to have long memories...

I can't shake the feeling WiiU is really the Gamecube round 2...

CericJuly 01, 2011

I think this movement is now over ripe for NoA to really capitalize on it.

KDR_11kJuly 01, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

If you didn't buy Excitebots, you're part of the problem.

Or European :P.

broodwarsJuly 01, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

If you didn't buy Excitebots, you're part of the problem.

Or just don't like racing games in general, unless they throw on a massive heap of Awesome Spectacle like the awesome Split/Second.

Actually, a much more likely death-knell for these games was the utter flop of Sin & Punishment: Star Successor, a game that (unlike Excitebots) we actually knew existed more than 4 weeks before it released; had some amount of marketing; and was a a sequel to a fairly niche game.

Either way, I used the last of my Wii Points today purchasing Final Fantasy VI, and yeah...unless Nintendo of America radically changes their localization policies, I'm done with buying things from Nintendo for the foreseeable future.

Killer_Man_JaroTom Malina, Associate Editor (Europe)July 01, 2011

It's understandable that many of you are upset about this news. However, responding to it by refusing to buy anything more from Nintendo is not going to solve the problem. As others have already pointed out, minority boycotts have zero influence on how a company conducts their business, and you're also excluding yourself from the good products that do come out. If it really annoys you, buy a copy of these games from Europe and find a method to play them - it's hardly piracy, you've actually paid for the games.

KDR_11kJuly 01, 2011

Quote from: broodwars

Actually, a much more likely death-knell for these games was the utter flop of Sin & Punishment: Star Successor

I don't think that did any better in Europe.

broodwarsJuly 01, 2011

Quote from: Killer_Man_Jaro

It's understandable that many of you are upset about this news. However, responding to it by refusing to buy anything more from Nintendo is not going to solve the problem. As others have already pointed out, minority boycotts have zero influence on how a company conducts their business, and you're also excluding yourself from the good products that do come out.

Not if you buy used, which has the simultaneous effects of screwing Nintendo; saving me money; and still allowing me to play what few Nintendo games still appeal to me.

Really, though, this has been building with me for a long time this generation.  The powder keg was the 2008 E3 Press Conference and subsequent Holiday 2008 game drought.  Ever since then (despite having eventually gotten over the Press Conference itself) and purchasing my first non-Nintendo consoles, I've really lost a lot of interest in Nintendo and their games.  Although there are games on the Wii that I will defend as "good" or at least "decent", there really aren't many games on the console that I can just gush about as a gamer, which has not been the case with previous Nintendo consoles.  This latest incident was just the last straw with me.  The RPG genre is my favorite, and I've had a lot of trouble finding JRPGs I want to play on any console this generation. 

And for no logical reason, Nintendo of America would rather have Wii owners not using their consoles for the better part of a year than release 2 well-regarded RPGs that are already going to be localized.  You know what?  **** them.  I'm done with this B.S.  I don't have to put up with nonsense like this on my other consoles, and Wii owners shouldn't have to put up with it here.  They shouldn't have to hack their Wiis to play these games just because Nintendo of America's leadership is incompetent.  I like this site; the podcasts; and my fellow readers/listeners here, but I'm done with supporting Nintendo this generation and the next if they're going to treat their customers this way.

SundoulosJuly 01, 2011

Quote from: MegaByte

If only they could make a deal with Square Enix to market them as:
Final Fantasy Blade
Final Fantasy Story
Final Fantasy Tower

Even that doesn't seem to carry as much weight as it used to. :)

KeyBillyJuly 01, 2011

I think this is very applicable to Wii U purchase decisions, since it shows that Nintendo is still primarily interested in giving us casual stuff (understandable), along with a few core titles here and there, rather than trying to achieve the diverse library of titles that the competing system offers.  Even when the investment is minimal to drive brand loyalty, they simply refuse.  They have it down to a science exactly how little they can do and still get people to buy in.

The question is if having Mario and Zelda is enough to warrant a console purchase anymore.  This will likely not be a standalone console, but an add-on to the 360 or PS3.

NinSageJuly 01, 2011

@ broodwars

I'm sorry this was your last straw with Nintendo.

I guess you won't be hanging around here anymore?

broodwarsJuly 01, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

@ broodwars

I'm sorry this was your last straw with Nintendo.

I guess you won't be hanging around here anymore?

Like I said, I like the site and the podcasts, which is helped a great deal when a large portion of Radio Free Nintendo is devoted to games from other platforms (I kid, of course, since hearing about the latest Nintendo software can be cool as well).  ;)  I still like talking about stuff with you guys and this is still one of the better sites on the internet, so I'll stick around.  It's not like the 360 or PS3 have a fan site that can compare with this one.  I'm just not giving Nintendo any of my money for the foreseeable future.

4-DJuly 01, 2011

I don't know what more Nintendo fans could've done. This tells me that Nintendo of America could care less what the fans are clamoring for. Like it's been suggested above, NoA should at least release a limited edition of Xenoblades since Europe already localized it. Does Nintendo really care about its hardcore audience? I think people should definitely buy as much Nintendo merchandise used for a while...

Luigi DudeJuly 01, 2011

The only way Xenoblade is coming to America is if it gets sales in Europe that Iwata himself considers good, which might cause him to order Reggie to release the game in America because he feels the game could get similar sales in America.  Since the North American and European markets are very similar to successful Nintendo games, a successful game in Europe would mean the game can be successful in America as well.

So right now, the PAL sales charts for the weeks after Xenoblade comes out are the only thing that matters.  If Xenoblade opens nicely and stays on the charts for a while, that's a good sign.  If it doesn't even appear on the charts or very low, then that's the final nail, it'll never come here.  So lets hope NOE gives the game a great marketing campaign that makes it a success like they were able to do with Monster Hunter 3 and Dragon Quest IX, because right now NOE is ironically the only hope us American Nintendo fans have.

ShayminJuly 01, 2011

I can see it now: Xenoblade clears 200k in the UK because of Americans importing, so a US release gets ordered - then it bombs in NA because everyone bought the import.

NinSageJuly 01, 2011

Quote from: Shaymin

I can see it now: Xenoblade clears 200k in the UK because of Americans importing, so a US release gets ordered - then it bombs in NA because everyone bought the import.

hmm, where have I heard that before? =P

Quote from: NinSage

Could suck if EU sales are good due to all the importing/modding that will take place without announcements.  Then, NoA announces/releases them stateside but everyone who wanted them already has them!!

PS - Shaymin kicks ass.  One of my favorite Pokémon of all time.  If only I knew how to use him well in online battles so he didn't have to sit the bench all the time =)

PPS - I just got back from Gamestop and saw a little girl with a Shaymin plush tucked under her arm.  Quite cool/adorable.

Quote from: 4-D

I don't know what more Nintendo fans could've done. This tells me that Nintendo of America could care less what the fans are clamoring for. Like it's been suggested above, NoA should at least release a limited edition of Xenoblades since Europe already localized it. Does Nintendo really care about its hardcore audience? I think people should definitely buy as much Nintendo merchandise used for a while...

Nintendo's "hardcore" audience didn't buy Sin & Punishment 2, Excitebots, Metroid: Other M, etc.

I was half-kidding with the "if you didn't buy Excitebots, you're part of the problem." That's honestly why we're not seeing those games here: Poor sales for previous "similar" games.

Too bad those games are nothing like these games.

broodwarsJuly 02, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

Quote from: 4-D

I don't know what more Nintendo fans could've done. This tells me that Nintendo of America could care less what the fans are clamoring for. Like it's been suggested above, NoA should at least release a limited edition of Xenoblades since Europe already localized it. Does Nintendo really care about its hardcore audience? I think people should definitely buy as much Nintendo merchandise used for a while...

Nintendo's "hardcore" audience didn't buy Sin & Punishment 2, Excitebots, Metroid: Other M, etc.

Sin & Punishment is a niche franchise within a genre even more niche than the JRPG (bullet hell side-scrolling shooters.  Seriously, this franchise is so niche it's a popular genre on the Xbox 360 in Japan!); no one knew Excitebots even existed until just before it came out; and Metroid Other M is an extremely troubled (but still decent) game.  And Nintendo of America never did figure out how to market to people beyond the casual Wii Fit audience. 

Like MegaByte said, these games are in an entirely different league than these Japanese Role-Playing Games.  One's a game that Nintendo was foolish to commission in the first place (though I appreciated it); another Nintendo was foolish not to do any PR or marketing on; and the last is a AAA Nintendo 1st party franchise title that Nintendo was foolish to put in the hands of a man who didn't care that he was killing his own fanbase.  Other M is probably the closest to these games in terms of production values, and it didn't fail because there wasn't a market for it, but because it just wasn't that good of a game (especially when it comes to the writing).

Luigi DudeJuly 02, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

Nintendo's "hardcore" audience didn't buy Sin & Punishment 2, Excitebots, Metroid: Other M, etc.

The NPD had Metroid: Other M over 300,000 copies by the end of November 2010 in North America, and could easily be at 400k or even 500k in America by now.  The Japanese version of Xenoblade only sold around 150,000 copies.  Metroid: Other M is one of the reason Xenoblade should be released in America because it showed that North America is still Nintendo's largest market when it comes to traditional core games and could be the most successful territory for Xenoblade because of it.

Hell, Other M did much worse in Europe and yet NOE has no problem still releasing Xenoblade.  It all comes back to NOA being asshats who don't want to release anything that won't be a big hit unless they're forced by NCL to do so.

ShyGuyJuly 02, 2011

How many PS3 games has Sony published then refused to release in North America?

broodwarsJuly 02, 2011

Quote from: ShyGuy

How many PS3 games has Sony published then refused to release in North America?

I can only think of one off the top of my head (there's surely more, just one notable one I can think of) in Demons Souls, a game they allowed Atlus to bring to North America instead.  It should be noted that Atlus turned the game into a big hit over here in NA, so much so that there's a spiritual sequel also on its way to North America this year.

I think a better question to ask, though, is "how many PS3 games has Sony published in Japan then refused to release in North America while there was a substantial software drought on the console?"  The easy answer to that one is "zero", an answer Nintendo can't give right now.  Even on the GameCube, Nintendo brought over Baten Kaitos Origins as a swan song for the platform, despite every shred of data showing that the game would not sell well (and indeed it didn't, unfortunately).

Luigi DudeJuly 02, 2011

Quote from: broodwars

Even on the GameCube, Nintendo brought over Baten Kaitos Origins as a swan song for the platform, despite every shred of data showing that the game would not sell well (and indeed it didn't, unfortunately).

That's because during the Gamecube era, Tatsumi Kimishima was the president of NOA.  Baten Kaitos Origins being localized was one of the last decisions he made before Reggie became president.  So even though Reggie was the president of NOA when the game was released, the decision to bring the game over was Kimishima.

Basically a lot of the problems with NOA's terrible localization can be blamed on Reggie being a terrible president.  The previous presidents of NOA, Arakawa and Kimishima would actually push hard to try and get certain series in America.  Arakawa in particular sense he is the reason we got Pokemon over here since NCL originally thought the series wouldn't do well in America but Arakawa fought hard to convince NCL it could be a success in America as well.

Reggie on the other hand doesn't give a damn about what could be a success and instead only wants to release what he knows will be a success.  He's the perfect example of a no risk businessman who always goes the safest way to maximize profits.  The only time Reggie takes a risk is when Iwata orders him to, and sadly Xenoblade isn't one of those times.

(Unless it does well enough in Europe)  :-\

What annoys me is that even if they do release both The Last Story and Xenoblade, who is going to buy 2 epics RPG's one after the other?
Xenoblade should have been released months ago and The Last Story should have been an October release (before Skyward Sword).

Instead North America might get one of them up to a year after their initial release, and the other forever lost to the ether. (and modders/importers)

I'd almost prefer not to have known these games ever existed, just accepting that Nintendo have abandoned the Wii and have no games in pipeline and get on with counting down the days to Wii U. Instead US Wii owners are feeling rejected and pissed off.

If I was still living in the UK and as bitter I was during the SNES/N64 days, I might be saying things like "SUCK ON THEM APPLES AMERICA, NOW YOU KNOW WHAT IT FEELS LIKE! THIS IS FOR MARIO RPG AND CHRONO TRIGGER - BWA HA HA HAAAAA"

But I'm not, so I won't. :P:

NinSageJuly 02, 2011

broodwars on S+P2: Agreed.
Luigi Dude on Other M: Strongly Agreed.
ShyGuy on Sony: Thank you.
famicomplicated on life: Strongly Disagreed.

Metroid: Other M did not meet their sales expectations, regardless of what data you throw out. There is a legitimate interview with Reggie (I believe Kotaku in December 2010) where he says that Other M underwhelmed them saleswise. Also, do you really think Xenoblade/The Last Story would outsell, or even come close to, a franchise game?

I brought up the other niche games because, the way I see it, that's the way NoA sees it. Those games are similar in the fact they're niche and aimed towards the "hardcore" market. S&P2 might be super niche, but that doesn't make these three RPGs any less niche.

Indeed, if NOA really sees the market as two simple groups, casual and hardcore, then they've got serious problems. Heck, Miyamoto even said that they were looking at Sin & Punishment 2 sales to see about a new Star Fox, and despite certain similarities, I don't even think that was wise. And just as bad, if they're making all decisions based on potential individual sales, that's also very short-sighted.

broodwarsJuly 02, 2011

Quote from: MegaByte

Indeed, if NOA really sees the market as two simple groups, casual and hardcore, then they've got serious problems. Heck, Miyamoto even said that they were looking at Sin & Punishment 2 sales to see about a new Star Fox, and despite certain similarities, I don't even think that was wise. And just as bad, if they're making all decisions based on potential individual sales, that's also very short-sighted.

Not to mention, if they don't want to bring these games over because they're "hardcore" and Nintendo's done a poor job of marketing core games this generation, what makes them think the Wii U will be any different?  Why even bother trying to market it to the core when you've already decided that core games won't sell anymore?  It's not like the core audience is going to forget how crappy the core gamer experience was on the Wii in NA, especially when the new console keeps the "Wii" branding.

Like you said, if Nintendo only looks at this as a binary situation instead of a case-by-case basis, they are both short-sighted and foolish, and they deserve to fail hard next generation with the Wii U.

EnnerJuly 02, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

...
I brought up the other niche games because, the way I see it, that's the way NoA sees it. Those games are similar in the fact they're niche and aimed towards the "hardcore" market. S&P2 might be super niche, but that doesn't make these three RPGs any less niche.

From what I hear, it's two RPGs and an action/beat'em up game. Also, even the two RPGs seem to have a lot of action mechanics as well as strategy ones.

Also, I contest that racing games (like Excitebots), action games (like Metroid: Other M), and RPGs are not as popular to the point of being a niche market. On other systems (home and portable), games in such genres can sell some 100ks of units. Looking around some charts, it seems like a mistake that Excitebots was never released in Europe because that is where it would have its best chance at selling.

Argh, that is a frustrating assumed view for NoA to have. Sin & Punishment: Star Successor is certainly a niche genre as a shoot'em up. But the other games were either thrown out to die (Excitebots) or were unattractively weird to the point of instilling caution (Metroid: Other M). If selling less than 400k in any given territory qualifies as being a niche game/genre, then I can't argue that Xenoblade and etc. won't find  themselves there. It's just that... maybe if... ugh, I don't know what to think anymore.

Kytim89July 03, 2011

Nintendo of America should be courteous enough to get Skyward Sword released here six months earlier since the Europeans are getting these game and not us.

AdrockJuly 03, 2011

Skyward Sword isn't even out in Japan because they're still "fine tuning" the game. Nintendo of America couldn't release it early if they wanted to.

Kytim89July 03, 2011

Quote from: Adrock

Skyward Sword isn't even out in Japan because they're still "fine tuning" the game. Nintendo of America couldn't release it early if they wanted to.


That was a bit of sarcasm on my part.

YmeegodJuly 03, 2011

It's just NoA with Reggie in charge.  I never did like that guy since he's posted a bunch on negative comments on RPG's in the past.

If you look at charts the US outsells the Japanese market in RPG's in more cases than it loses and there isn't a single case where the European market outsold the US.
During the GC era, Nintendo was commited to releasing just about everything the Japanese market had to offer like Cubivore and that damn Giant game but with the WII.

I will end up buying the WII U but like most people stated, it's not going be my primary system. 



Kytim89July 03, 2011

There is still a chance that Nintendo HQ could take notice of the fans of north America wanting the games and over riding Reggie's decision. Has homebase said anything or is it up to NoA's call? Honestly, RPGs seem to do well in America, so I am assuming that Nintendo should just release the game in limited quantities in North America and if there is high demand then release more units.

Kytim89July 03, 2011

There is still a chance that Nintendo HQ could take notice of the fans of north America wanting the games and over riding Reggie's decision. Has homebase said anything or is it up to NoA's call? Honestly, RPGs seem to do well in America, so I am assuming that Nintendo should just release the game in limited quantities in North America and if there is high demand then release more units.

AdrockJuly 03, 2011

My understanding is that it's Nintendo of America's call unless Iwata tells them otherwise. They've been given a great deal of independence but they still answer to NCL.

JRPGs used to be kind of popular here back when FFVII burst onto the scene with all of its CG glory but besides Final Fantasy, popularity has died down tremendously. That's why series like Xenosaga were discontinued. There were supposed to be 3 more chapters but so much for that. Gameplay-wise, from what I've seen, The Last Story and Xenoblade seem to stray from the norm so Nintendo could take a chance. Unfortunately, they both look like straight JRPGs and would likely be lumped in with the rest and forgotten. It's a niche genre so odds are against those games being the next Mario or Zelda for Nintendo. I'd love to see Nintendo do a limited release or let another company publish the games. It's just not going to happen.

At this point, the best chance these games have is seeing a character from each game making it as part of the playable roster (not cameos) in Smash Bros 4 to give them some exposure and even that is a shot in the dark.

leahsdadJuly 03, 2011

Quote:

JRPGs used to be kind of popular here back when FFVII burst onto the scene with all of its CG glory but besides Final Fantasy, popularity has died down tremendously.

Aah, those were the days.  It was actually nice to own a PS/PS2 back then, before every game was either an FPS or an open world sandbox.  Well, except for the PS load times.  And the PS2, man, that was just a glut.  4 Xenosaga games,  2 FF's, 2 FF offshoots, Star Ocean, Grandia, 2 Kingdom Hearts games, Saga, Skies of Arcadia, and remember that stupid one with like 5 or 6 games where you were inside a computer?  I think Japan overdid it there.

EnnerJuly 03, 2011

Unless I'm mistaken, the Xenosaga series wrapped up at three when they looked at the momentum they had and realized they can't justify their seven game plan. Did they leave a story unfinished?

Oh, and the stupid one set inside a computer is .hack (Dot Hack). The game's setting is an MMORPG and the franchise has a 4 game series and a 3 game series on the PS2, a PC online game, and a PSP wrap up game.

AdrockJuly 03, 2011

Xenosaga wrapped up the story arc of the first 3 games as planned but it did not wrap up the series. I believe KOS-MOS survived kind of and the next chapter was supposed to begin hundreds of years later. There were supposed to be 3, maybe 4 more games. Or something. It's been a while since I've read up on Xenosaga. All I know for certain was that Namco discontinued the series and we'll likely never see the rest of it.

Luigi DudeJuly 04, 2011

Looks like Reggie showed NOE not to f*ck with him.

http://translate.google.fr/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http://www.boursier.com/actualites/news/jeux-video-un-depart-chez-nintendo-441097.html

The guy who started this whole mess, Mathieu Minel, by saying NOA didn't show Xenoblade at E3 because they had no plans to release it is now leaving the company.  He's been there for 12 years, but it just so happens over a week after he said something that caused North American Nintendo fans to riot against NOA, he end up leaving.

Not hard to see what happened here.  Reggie probably called up Iwata and told him someone who works for NOE is causing trouble for him by hurting NOA image.  Since someone like Iwata probably doesn't want internal drama like having NOA and NOE publicly fighting each other, he gets rid of the source of said trouble right away.

TJ SpykeJuly 05, 2011

Quote from: Ymeegod

I will end up buying the WII U but like most people stated, it's not going be my primary system. 

Why not? Not only will it have the typical Nintendo games, but right now it looks like it will have third party support just as good as Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 have, so you get the best of both worlds.

CericJuly 05, 2011

Quote from: Luigi

Looks like Reggie showed NOE not to f*ck with him.

http://translate.google.fr/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=fr&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http://www.boursier.com/actualites/news/jeux-video-un-depart-chez-nintendo-441097.html

The guy who started this whole mess, Mathieu Minel, by saying NOA didn't show Xenoblade at E3 because they had no plans to release it is now leaving the company.  He's been there for 12 years, but it just so happens over a week after he said something that caused North American Nintendo fans to riot against NOA, he end up leaving.

Not hard to see what happened here.  Reggie probably called up Iwata and told him someone who works for NOE is causing trouble for him by hurting NOA image.  Since someone like Iwata probably doesn't want internal drama like having NOA and NOE publicly fighting each other, he gets rid of the source of said trouble right away.

If Reggie had to call Iwata he's not very powerful.  That should have been at first an NoA to NoE call or Vice-Versa.

Mop it upJuly 05, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

Nintendo's "hardcore" audience didn't buy Sin & Punishment 2, Excitebots, Metroid: Other M, etc.

I was half-kidding with the "if you didn't buy Excitebots, you're part of the problem." That's honestly why we're not seeing those games here: Poor sales for previous "similar" games.

Is ExciteBots really a hardcore game? I mean, it was packaged with a Wii Wheel which seems to be labeled as the epitome of casual, and unlike Mario Kart Wii, the wheel is the only available control scheme. Maybe that was its problem, people probably passed it off as either casual trash or a Mario Kart clone, neither of which it is of course.

TJ SpykeJuly 05, 2011

Well, when you don't advertise a game and don't even tell the press about a game until about a week before it releases, it's not gonna sell well. They did advertise the hell out of Sin & Punishment though, and Other M.

CericJuly 06, 2011

I have never seen an ad for Sin and Punishment.

Which considering I frequent a Gaming site almost hourly it seems.  You think I would have seen those sort of adds.  But I can tell you about Diapers and Mario Emulators.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorJuly 06, 2011

I've also never seen an ad for Sin and Punishment.

But, between Adblock and DVR, if it's not on a billboard, I'm not likely to see it. :D

CericJuly 06, 2011

Quote from: UncleBob

I've also never seen an ad for Sin and Punishment.

But, between Adblock and DVR, if it's not on a billboard, I'm not likely to see it. :D

I don't really do either but, I don't watch a lot of TV either though I do Hulu quiet a bit and it has ads.  I'm sure a lot of my demographic does as well.

Talking about that in front of Cars 2 their was a commercial for Nintendo DS. With kids and like.  My first thought was... Why wasn't the 3DS even mentioned?

I've seen tons of ads for Sin & Punishment 2. It was all over TV around its release.

I'm going to curb that debate, though, because we all don't have the same TV-watching habits, and we're also not the market that Nintendo needs to advertise that game to (we know about it already. Others don't.).

CericJuly 06, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

I've seen tons of ads for Sin & Punishment 2. It was all over TV around its release.

I'm going to curb that debate, though, because we all don't have the same TV-watching habits, and we're also not the market that Nintendo needs to advertise that game to (we know about it already. Others don't.).

I didn't know about it at launch and when it was flopping ruining are chances to get other games.  Same with ExciteBot and I liked ExciteTruck and would have bought it then.  I step away a for a bit from being steeped in gaming news and I missed it.

ymeegodJuly 07, 2011

Didn't enjoy the new excite series, I miss excitebike N64.  Excitebots is just plain strange and it really doesn't have much to do with driving then it has to do with minigames like waggling or some other crap.  When was the last time you played a racer when racing wasn't the point but gather points was? 

Well I found that there's software hacks to make the WII region free without any mods so what the release dates for these games anyhow?

CericJuly 07, 2011

Quote from: ymeegod

Didn't enjoy the new excite series, I miss excitebike N64.  Excitebots is just plain strange and it really doesn't have much to do with driving then it has to do with minigames like waggling or some other crap.  When was the last time you played a racer when racing wasn't the point but gather points was? 

Well I found that there's software hacks to make the WII region free without any mods so what the release dates for these games anyhow?

I like the Excite Series precisely because its about the tricks and the points.  Also technically Mario Kart is about the points because you can Win without winning an actual race.

TJ SpykeJuly 07, 2011

Actually, it's almost impossible to win a cup in Mario Kart without winning a race. Just about the only way is if you finish 2nd every race, and anybody who finishes 1st in a race never does better than 3rd in the other races. So I suppose it's possible, but almost guaranteed never to happen because the odds are so low.

CericJuly 07, 2011

Quote from: TJ

Actually, it's almost impossible to win a cup in Mario Kart without winning a race. Just about the only way is if you finish 2nd every race, and anybody who finishes 1st in a race never does better than 3rd in the other races. So I suppose it's possible, but almost guaranteed never to happen because the odds are so low.

Never said it was easy.

If memory serves most major racing leagues have a point system that also rewards the driver.  That's why some drivers will finish a race they can't win because you get points for doing so.

pgadalaOctober 13, 2011

This is an absolute outrage. I guess Nintendo of America is scared that these kinds of games don't pander to a wide enough audience. I'm still upset that Fire Emblem hasn't even been getting any new releases overseas!

Oh well, I guess I'll have to get these three games shipped to me from Europe when they're all released...

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