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Episode 249: Raindrops Keep Fallin' On My Head

by James Jones, Greg Leahy, Jon Lindemann, and Jonathan Metts - July 3, 2011, 3:18 pm PDT
Total comments: 59

Games, emails, and controversy -- what more could you want in a Nintendo podcast?

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We don't often get to deliver impressions of unreleased games in New Business, but James does just that with Solatorobo. It's a fantastically pretty 2.5D game that XSEED is bringing to America, and we do our best to save it from obscurity. James also has a few thoughts on completing Ocarina of Time 3D, and he has some quick comments on an equally quick game, GO Series: 10 Second Run on DSiWare. Jon seeks redemption by starting and completing a game in the span of just one week -- it's Halo: ODST, and despite it being a spin-off, he finds it to be quite typical of the franchise formula. Jonny finally digs into Shantae: Risky's Revenge, and it is indeed a Castlevania-style adventure full of exploration and character upgrades. The boobs are maxed out from the start, though. Per a fan's request, Jonny also reports on Kotaku's localization of Retro Game Master (a.k.a. Game Center CX), the wacky Japanese TV show that spawned our beloved Retro Game Challenge for DS. Finally, Greg celebrates (mourns) yet another delay and platform change for the new Pikmin by checking out the New Play Control version of the first game.

In the second segment, we start with a lengthy and passionate analysis of the ongoing drama over Nintendo's apparent decision to withhold American releases for Xenoblade, The Last Story, and Pandora's Tower. Since this recording, Nintendo of Europe has confirmed all three games for release in that territory, meaning that English translations will be completed regardless. Surprisingly, we got no emails on that subject, but you did write in about jet packs & grappling hooks, expectations for multiplatform games on Wii U, Nintendo's plan to sell more accessories in the next generation, and the RFN crew's take on Infamous and Metal Gear Solid.

Finally, we are happy to announce a special live call-in event to celebrate our fifth anniversary and 250th episode! Please join us online for a couple of hours starting Saturday, July 9 at noon Pacific, 3pm Eastern (7pm GMT). We'll set up a live audio stream and chat room here on the site, and also provide Skype info so you can call in and speak with the RFN gang. We would love to hear your thoughts on the state of Nintendo and answer your questions about the show or gaming! The whole webcast will be recorded and included with our normal recording for Episode 250, releasing just one day later. We hope to see (and hear) you there!

This podcast was edited by Greg Leahy.

Music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is used with permission from Jason Ricci & New Blood. You can purchase their newest album, Done with the Devil, directly from the record label, Amazon (CD) (MP3), or iTunes, or call your local record store and ask for it!

Additional music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is copyrighted to Nintendo, and is included under fair use protection.

Talkback

I'm not seeing why OoT 3D is a sign that Ocarina itself needs a break - I mean, it's not like they've done full-price retail re-releases of it before (2 ROM dumps given away as incentives for purchasing other products, and one VC release). Then again, I lack the necessary tools to play the 3Dmake. Still, Ocarina's the last Zelda I bothered to play through and I get 100% completion on it, so I guess that makes me more willing to defend it.

James's eShop issue: What. The. Hell. As if we needed more proof that Nintendo's online plan should involve backing several trucks up to Valve HQ.

Who does that ODST tropper think he is, Charles Nelson Reilly?

When Jonny's New Business began, I saw the skies open up, and I could hear all the way to Alaska... and I heard Zach cheering. Also, Retro Game Challenge 1 is on Amazon.com for $12.71, so you're officially running out of excuses. Unfortunately, the editor of 2's fan translation (Ray Barnholdt) just got let go from GamePro, so there may be some more progress on it soon.

As it relates to OpRainfall, the thing that I don't get from a profit/loss perspective for NOA is based around the accounting concept of goodwill. (Jonny mentioned it in relation to Squenix, but with a different meaning.) Loosely, it's defined as the value of a brand's reputation with its clients (thank you, Wikipedia). Right now, Nintendo's reputation is getting raked over the coals by the very people - us - who are likely to promote Nintendo to our friends and family. I can't promote a company to my family if I don't trust them to release the content that I want to play on it. It'd be interesting to see if we get a writedown on that with Nintendo's next set of financials.

EnnerJuly 03, 2011

Good show.

In Metal Gear Solid, I think the Patriots some how have affected everyone so that whenever they are mentioned some people only hear La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo. The lengthy cut scenes and codec segments are always a point of contention with the series; I for some sick reason have always enjoyed them. I think it's because having such long breaks in game play are so wrong and games really shouldn't do them that I find the continuing audacity of the Metal Gear Solid series to have them to be always novel.

As for the controls, they do take some getting used to because the game allows you to do so much. Arguably, there are too many unnecessary things the controls allow for that really hurt how the game controls. At least they can make for funny Youtube videos of players pulling off crazy tricks.

I think the reason The Twin Snakes's cut scenes get the shaft from fans is not because they are crazy but because Solid Snake is the one doing crazy things. Solid Snake is the grounded person of the series, the straight man, the sane man in the asylum and such. I don't think fans ever envisioned him as a flamboyant super hero soldier. That's understandable, but I still like The Twin Snake's cut scenes being so gloriously silly.

BboyJuly 03, 2011

Rain drops keep fallin' on my brain ~ Jay-Z
I had no idea what that was referencing... until now.

Does anyone else think that FFVI is maybe somehow NoA trying to compensate for the missing games?

Killer_Man_JaroTom Malina, Associate Editor (Europe)July 04, 2011

We will have to agree to disagree on Mega Man 6. I think, at this point, the level design was feeling serious fatigue. And the music is sadly unmemorable. Plus, there are little things that really started to grate on my nerves, like the slower screen wipe (yes) and the animation that tried to play every time you put on a Rush Adaptor.

For the record, I hold Mega Man 5 in much higher regard. It may even be my favourite of the NES sextuplet of Mega Man games. MM6 has nothing on Gravity Man's awesomely trippy stage.

Bboy, sounds like you need to catch up on Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid!

Scatt-ManJuly 04, 2011

Just a quick appreciation post. Thoroughly enjoyed the Operation Rainfall chat, chaps. I'm not one for participating in these things, but I love hearing about it all.

KDR_11kJuly 04, 2011

Grappling hooks and jetpacks are good because they add a form of movement that's heavily skill based. You can follow the regular boring path and just do safe swings or you flip out and go crazy, traversing difficult sections in mere seconds where a single misplaced grapple will send you into a bottomless pit. It's one of the reasons Ninja Cop is awesome.

BTW, Terraria has both grappling hooks (both in the single and triple variety) and rocket boots.

EnnerJuly 04, 2011

I'm curious to know what you meant when you said that the Metroid Other M was done "kind of unprofessionally"? I've been trying to figure out what aspects of the localization could be considered unprofessional and had no luck so far. The closest I could think of is that the Japanese director of the game was very close to the English localization and that made the it a more literal translation rather than an adaptive one.

Reminds me of English-language anime and manga fans that cry for more literal translations that keep as much of the Japanese-ness as possible.

I was referring to the voice acting and how it was poorly coordinated with the writing, which was a horrible translation (if perhaps accurate in a literal sense) in the first place.

KDR_11kJuly 04, 2011

I really don't think it was the fault of the marketing that Other M flopped. Reggie not understanding that shit games don't sell is only a testament to him being a non-gamer. He doesn't recognize it as shit, he thinks it's full of cutscenes and no fun to him so the hardcore gotta love it.

I believe NoE switched to translating straight from Japanese for all languages a while ago to speed up the localization process and reduce delays between the US and the PAL release.

EnnerJuly 04, 2011

Quote from: Jonnyboy117

I was referring to the voice acting and how it was poorly coordinated with the writing, which was a horrible translation (if perhaps accurate in a literal sense) in the first place.

Ah, "poorly coordinated" as also in poorly directed? Or that the actors, actresses and directors didn't seem to be able to talk things out with the writers? For some nitpicking reason, I'm not sure if it's right to call Metroid: Other M's English localization unprofessionally done. Then again, some of the results were bad and it seems silly to say, "You made a bad product, but did a good job." I guess this is something for me to wrap my head around for a while.


EDIT: Forgot to add an interview with a voice actress for Other M:
http://www.gametrailers.com/video/exclusive-voice-metroid-other/707254
Maybe it will provide insight to the development of the voice work for Metroid: Other M.

TJ SpykeJuly 04, 2011

Quote from: KDR_11k

I really don't think it was the fault of the marketing that Other M flopped. Reggie not understanding that shit games don't sell is only a testament to him being a non-gamer. He doesn't recognize it as shit, he thinks it's full of cutscenes and no fun to him so the hardcore gotta love it.

Shit games can sell well, just like shitty movies can do well (*cough*Wedding Crashers*cough*). Good marketing (like being the only good parts of something into the trailer to trick people into thinking the whole product is that good) can help a bad product do well.

Operation Rainfall was a longshot at BEST, it's like when a basketball player shoots the ball from the other end of the court at the end of the game. There's like a 1% chance it will work, and nobody should be surprised if it doesn't work. The campaign was not gonna have any influence on Nintendo's decision, especially when a better organized campaign like from Starmen.net hasn't worked. I do hope those three games will come out here eventually, but my faith in the company isn't shaken.

I don't expect as many Wii U accessories as Wii had since it will use existing Wii accessories (Wii Remote/Wii RemotePlus, Nunchuk, and Wii Balance Board are already confirmed).

KDR_11kJuly 05, 2011

Quote from: TJ

Shit games can sell well, just like shitty movies can do well (*cough*Wedding Crashers*cough*). Good marketing (like being the only good parts of something into the trailer to trick people into thinking the whole product is that good) can help a bad product do well.

The first step for that is to have a product that looks appealing at first. Other M didn't do that.

alegoicoeJuly 05, 2011

Ninja Gaiden bosses suks, this games are made for masochists.

ShyGuyJuly 05, 2011

I think you guys are on to something talking about how NOA brought over Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter to North America but are ignoring these latest titles and several others. I think Nintendo of America has a very simple formula that they are applying to there releases. They look at the amount of Japanese sales and if they meet their minimum, they bring the game to NA.

The problem is, the Japanese and American markets have different tastes in games, so they are missing out.

CericJuly 05, 2011

Quote from: ShyGuy

I think you guys are on to something talking about how NOA brought over Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter to North America but are ignoring these latest titles and several others. I think Nintendo of America has a very simple formula that they are applying to there releases. They look at the amount of Japanese sales and if they meet their minimum, they bring the game to NA.

The problem is, the Japanese and American markets have different tastes in games, so they are missing out.

Their new plan is instead of addressing the problem head on they are going to introduce a series of TV Programming and Water Additives to just turn the NoA Region into Japan 2.  Thus expanding the Glorious Nippon Empire.

Once proven successful with this new large population of Nihon-jin next will be Korea and then NoE.

StardustJuly 05, 2011

Really great show.


No seriously, good show.


no, im not kidding.


okay, im done.


Anyway, this whole discussion got me so motivated to go to op rainfall's blog and join in the fight against NOA, now im gonna send nintendo a letter along with spamming their walls on facebook with "why nintendo, why?"because (even though i love the work NWR does for nintendo) i am one of those nintendo guys who only picks up his wii for VC and the occasional zelda game.

noname2200July 06, 2011

Quote from: ShyGuy

I think you guys are on to something talking about how NOA brought over Dragon Quest and Monster Hunter to North America but are ignoring these latest titles and several others. I think Nintendo of America has a very simple formula that they are applying to there releases. They look at the amount of Japanese sales and if they meet their minimum, they bring the game to NA.

My guess is that Monster Hunter and Dragon Quest are only getting some attention from NoA because of a mandate from NCL. Perhaps I'm just jaded, but I have a hard time believing NCL didn't have to sweeten the pot somewhat for Capcom and Squeenix to get even the small amount of support they've received from those two companies. Since there probably wasn't any such push from NCL on the Rainfall games, NoA is fine with pretending they don't exist.

Now, part of me understands the business logic behind this. None of the Rainfall games are going to sell jack, comparatively speaking, and NoA seems to be bizarrely obsessed with only having mega-hits this generation. I completely agree with Jonny and Greg as to why they'll sell poorly, but the time to fix that was four years ago, not today.

Of course, as someone who really wants to play Xenoblade none of this stops me from feeling bitter. Nor does their spotty localization record this generation give me much faith for the 3DS and Wii U. I'm prepared to import the game(s) and mod my Wii to get my fix, but I have to wonder if NoA's fixation with only localizing "sure things" will come back to haunt them. It's already helped to eliminate all my enthusiasm for Wii U, but realistically I'm one of maybe a few dozen people who feel this way, so I'm guessing the answer is "no."

For the record, I'm not a Nintendo apologist. I'm pissed off about this, too. I'm just trying to be more realistic and trying to comprehend NoA's actions. Yes, it is all ultimately NoA's fault, but regardless: these games very likely would not sell at all. It sucks, but that's what the Wii has become in the States.

ShyGuyJuly 06, 2011

If you look at the PS3, they had plenty of first party "failures" at the start of this generation, but they kept on plugging away, and they are in a much better position now when it comes to an attractive software library.

I hope it was clear that I wasn't calling Neal an apologist. (Our podcast has a colorful history with that term!) That argument is just one part of the apologist's perspective on this issue, and Neal happened to be the first person I saw throw it out there (on Twitter). He seemed to do it reluctantly, too.


Regardless, my stance remains that Nintendo could sell these games and make them a success if they really wanted to. It would require a totally different marketing strategy than they have used before, but we are talking about at least three games that could justify such effort, not to mention all the potential titles that could be on the way for Wii U. The recent listener suggestion of "black label" games as a sub-brand is one of many ways NOA could tackle this opportunity. Certainly it would be easier if they had any momentum at all with the target demographic, but it's never too late to start. I say again that millions of such gamers already own a Wii, so it's really not a big leap to convince them to turn it on and play a new game that looks and sounds awesome. If Nintendo can't sell a "AAA" game to an existing userbase, what does that say about the company's effectiveness?

No worries on my end, Jonny. You made it pretty clear, but I still felt the need to clarify for anyone. :)

It honestly comes down to the fact that I'm sad that NoA wouldn't be able to market these games to NA as they are now. It's almost as if NoA stopped caring about people like me (and the NWR audience) because, well, we'll buy whatever games they put out for us. We'll eat up whatever Iwata Asks bullshit they throw at us, etc. etc.

The people they seem to be focused on are everyone, but they never actually learned/remembered how to effectively market to a big, constant segment of the gaming populace. I hope they get their shit together, but they need a much bigger fall than the lackluster 3DS post-launch period to learn the error of their ways. Who knows, maybe they'll never have that wake-up call, and maybe they'll succeed while alienating us even more. We'll bitch about it, but let's get real: we're all getting Smash Bros. Wii U/3DS however we can. We all want the new Mario and Zelda games.

It's just ultimately frustrating...

Killer_Man_JaroTom Malina, Associate Editor (Europe)July 07, 2011

Seeing Nintendo of Europe go to this effort has me curious as to how they plan to market this trio. Or maybe they don't have a plan. Maybe it'll be three soft launches, as with select DS games like the oft-mentioned Jam With The Band and the craziness with Inazuma Eleven. I'm so glad they're being released here, but it's probably not a smart venture.

motangJuly 07, 2011

I am glad to hear that I am no alone in thinking inFAMOUS is a good game, just too damn repetitive. I have to beat that game, but just go tired of it a moved on to Uncharted then to Prince of Persia (yes I am new owner of a PS3 so I am playing through a huge back catalog of awesome games), and next up is Batman Arkham Asylum.  ;D

CericJuly 07, 2011

Quote from: motang

I am glad to hear that I am no alone in thinking inFAMOUS is a good game, just too damn repetitive. I have to beat that game, but just go tired of it a moved on to Uncharted then to Prince of Persia (yes I am new owner of a PS3 so I am playing through a huge back catalog of awesome games), and next up is Batman Arkham Asylum.  ;D

I've actually decided to wait on Batman: Arkham Asylum in hopes of a WiiU version with enhanced controls.  I played the demo and know I probably like it.

noname2200July 07, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

It's almost as if NoA stopped caring about people like me (and the NWR audience) because, well, we'll buy whatever games they put out for us. We'll eat up whatever Iwata Asks bullshit they throw at us, etc. etc.

I have to wonder if NoA in particular is feeling pretty smug/snakebit this generation on its localizations. Smug, because without exception every game that got localized in Europe but not America this generation has bombed horribly (Another Code, Last Window, Disaster, Jam with the Band, etc.). Snakebit, because the two games which I've heard NoA had a huge hand in creating, Elite Beat Agents and Sin and Punishment 2, were both commercial failures (albeit two of my favorite games this gen). EBA in particular might be why NoA is unimpressed with forum users' demands for bringing a game over.

CericJuly 07, 2011

EBA needed to be advertised.  I don't know how much more Praising could have been done in the non-mainstream.  This game does fall into the size of fan base as Layton and more accurately Pheonix Wright.  Devoted Fans.  I even bought the Two Japanese ones because I liked EBA that much.

noname2200July 07, 2011

Maybe, and if so it would fall under the "can't market no more" camp.

CericJuly 07, 2011

Quote from: noname2200

Maybe, and if so it would fall under the "can't market no more" camp.

How hard would it have been.  Amusng Blues Brother Style Commercial getting to a place to Cheer and the sudden surprise is their Cheering something weird.  It almost fits exactly with their DS marketing.

Fiendlord_TimmayJuly 07, 2011

Yay, my question was read! I totally agree with the complaints about infamous. It did get a bit repetitive by the end, and the movement speed was a serious problem. But I have high tolerance for those types of things, so it didn't particularly detract from the overall experience. I think one of the reasons I liked it so much was because of the totally insane story. I loved how it went so unapologetically over the top by the end.

Greg's reaction to the statement that the Patriots were run by an evil organization was priceless.

I am currently playing through the first Metal Gear Solid for PS1. I like it so far, and the cutscenes aren't bothering me too much yet. I do have some problems with the controls, though. And the game is absolutely hideous. I might just try out the gamecube version to see if it fixes some of my issues.

Quote from: Ceric

EBA needed to be advertised.  I don't know how much more Praising could have been done in the non-mainstream.  This game does fall into the size of fan base as Layton and more accurately Pheonix Wright.  Devoted Fans.  I even bought the Two Japanese ones because I liked EBA that much.

For whatever it's worth, I saw Elite Beat Agents ads at least twice a week for a 2 month period around its release. It's part of the reason why I bought it - though I hate Walkie Talkie Man to this day.

LOL yes, definitely playing through the original Metal Gear Solid is an eye-opening - or rather eye-burning - experience.  I'm always amazed at how jittery the polygons are; they look terrible.  That was back when Sony felt compelled to have PS1 compete with N64 in terms of 3D games.

I can't believe Elite Beat Agents didn't get a good advertising campaign.  I could have been classic.

Quote from: NWR_Lindy

I could have been classic.

Wut?

NinSageJuly 11, 2011

YO!  I was out of town so ... I know fewer people will see/read this but... here are my responses to another highly enjoyable episode!

1. NPC chatter in FPSs is just stupid.  I think developers are starting to get too "cute" with the phrases and its turning their own games into (even bigger) jokes.

2. I have loved each WayForward game I've played! Like a concerned parent, I hope they're making money and getting by OK.

3. To me, episodic gaming is yet another misstep in the wonderful (read: awful) world of DLC.

4. I never beat Ninja Gaiden 1 w/o save states.  But I did own Ninja Gaiden II back in the day and played it so much I could beat it relatively easily. (heavy emphasis on "RELATIVELY").

5. It's nice that Kotaku is providing some interesting content.  Too bad the site on the whole is too toxic for me to ever set foot on again!

6. OpRainfall....

6A. whoa, whoa, whoa.  back the truck up. *beep*beep*beep* ... OK, let's say Nintendo no longer knows how to market "core" games.  Here are two MASSIVE variables that were not being considered in that statement:

First, gamer tastes have changed.  Nintendo doesn't do a lot of dude-bro FPS or violent "realistic" games like Assassin's Creed. 

That's what's popular now from the "hardcore" perspective.  Clean, respectable protagonists bopping around zapping aliens without cussing or shooting up steroids don't sell like they used to.

Second, any "core" Wii game faces a severe uphill battle in that gaming media is not going to help them out.  Game isn't in HD? That's 1-2 points right off the top of the review score.  Game uses any amount of this new fangled motion whutsits? It's automatically not for the "hardcore". Sad? Yes. Stupid? Yes. True? Yes.

6B. Yea, the Walmart crowd wound up being the Wii's bread and butter.  But that's because, as I said, the gaming market has shifted to this "m for mature" style and so Nintendo went blue ocean to keep from finishing 3rd place again.  Try not to blame them because the expanded audience actually liked gaming enough to make it a successful move.

6C. I do agree that, if sales considerations are the problem, Nintendo is acting like the foolish third parties who don't support the Wii and then complain that there are no sales.

7. Jet packs, grappling hooks and MegaMan 6 are awesome.

I was soooooo excited about Dark Void.  I still plan to play it someday.  I bet I'll like it.

8. I have all the ZoE games but I have yet to play even one of them! I know I will someday thoroughly enjoy them!

9. Loved the first MGS.  Haven't been motivated to play the rest of them.  Though I have an especially high tolerance/affinity for both ninjas and cutscenes so I bet I would be a good target for the rest of the franchise.
.... though I do have a compulsion to understand plots so.... hrm.

CericJuly 11, 2011

Yeah, you should have been in the Chat Saturday.  It was fun.  I wish we had more opportunities to listen to NWR Podcasts and do real time chat with others.  Its fun to have the side talk.  Even though I missed most of the call-in while chatting...

broodwarsJuly 11, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

I was soooooo excited about Dark Void.  I still plan to play it someday.  I bet I'll like it.

Dark Void is one of the most disappointing, unfinished, buggy pieces of **** I've ever played.  Stay far, far away from it, no matter how much the demo makes things look like they could be cool.  I picked the game up for $10 in a Gamestop Bargain Bin, and I still feel ripped off.  It's a pity, too, because the idea of merging a jetpack with something like Uncharted sounds great on paper.

Play Dark Void Zero instead. It's awesome.

NinSageJuly 12, 2011

Yea, I've heard Dark Void Zero was the more enjoyable title in the series =P I just got a DSi (XL) last week so maybe I'll look into it!

Isn't there even a sound of someone blowing in a cartridge before you start? Or am I thinking of another game?

@ broodwars

Was it just a matter of not taking care of glitches or would it still be disappointing if it all worked perfectly?

broodwarsJuly 12, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

@ broodwars

Was it just a matter of not taking care of glitches or would it still be disappointing if it all worked perfectly?

If you took away all the crashes (seriously, this game crashes so often I Platinum-ed the game just to see if it was even possible) and bugs both minor and major, the game would be merely average.  I'm not kidding when I say that this game is unfinished.  The various levels feel like they were stitched together from whatever the developers found still kind of worked a month before release, because there's almost no semblance of continuity.  There are some cool ideas, but they just aren't executed well.

NinSageJuly 12, 2011

@ broodwars

Man, that's such a shame! I hold Capcom in high regard but they sure had a rough patch in '09-'10 between Dark Void, Bionic Commando and (some might say) RE5.

Think there was a specific reason they had to rush on Dark Void?

Also, what does "platinum-ed" mean? Is that like when a game is done and it goes "gold"?

broodwarsJuly 12, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

Also, what does "platinum-ed" mean? Is that like when a game is done and it goes "gold"?

It means that I got the Platinum trophy for the game on PS3 by collecting all the game's trophies (or acquiring all the achievements, for you 360 users).  I usually don't bother for games I hate, but I seriously wanted to see, given all the crashes I'd seen, if it was even possible to get all of them.  Because frankly, I'm pretty sure some money exchanged hands between Capcom, Sony, and Microsoft to allow that game to ship.  There's no way all those crashes and bugs were not seen during certification, and under normal circumstances 1st party would have forced Capcom to fix them.

My theory almost panned out as I expected, too.  The game crashed 3 times on one of the final levels during my Hard Mode run, as well as once refusing to spawn the thing I had to destroy to complete the level.

I harbor similar suspicions about Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas.  There had to have been some very fishy shenanigans during certification for those games to pass, because they are textbook crash factories on both platforms but especially on PS3.

Quote from: NinSage

Isn't there even a sound of someone blowing in a cartridge before you start? Or am I thinking of another game?

Actually, in the DSiWare version at least, you blow into the DS microphone to blow the dust out of the cartridge before you start it up. It's cute for a while, but it eventually gets kind of annoying.

CericJuly 13, 2011

Certification isn't what it use to be.  I'm hoping Nintendo sticks with its guns and not let glitchy software onto their system with the newer systems.

NinSageJuly 13, 2011

@ broodwars

Wow. That's saddening. Ah well.  Maybe I'll pick it up for the PS5 someday as part of Capcom's "we're sorry for these games" package =P

@ Insanolord

Ah yea, that's right.  hmm, I could see that getting annoying.  They should have had it randomly boot  up with a "corrupted" screen every 1/5 of the time.  That would have been a nice solution.

@ Ceric

I completely agree.  It's amazing how as technology has gotten more powerful and budgets have gotten exponentially larger, that glitches have actually gone UP in frequency.  It's a sign of an industry that is trying to be bigger that its legs can support.  If they just slowed things down, they could be walking tall.  Instead many sprint towards fractured tibias.

.... metaphorically speaking. =P

Mop it upJuly 13, 2011

In the case of something like Dark Void, I wonder if they said something along the lines of "We'll fix those issues later with patches!" Perhaps they actually did plan to do that, but I'm going to assume the game sold poorly and that probably means they never bothered. Of course, the game isn't going to sell if it is no good. Then again, many companies don't seem to understand the big secret to selling games: make them good.

NinSageJuly 14, 2011

I completely agree, my Moppy friend.

EnnerJuly 14, 2011

I would give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't think they would be able to fix issues post-release. PC gamers barely stand for that crap and I would imagine console gamers would just get rid of the game. I would imagine that the Dark Void team had a hard release date and shipped out the game as best they could. Looks like their best wasn't nearly enough.

broodwarsJuly 14, 2011

Quote from: Enner

I would give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't think they would be able to fix issues post-release. PC gamers barely stand for that crap and I would imagine console gamers would just get rid of the game. I would imagine that the Dark Void team had a hard release date and shipped out the game as best they could. Looks like their best wasn't nearly enough.

Considering that the main game looks like its levels are held together with scotch tape, I think it's fairly certain that Capcom just put out an ultimatum that they game had to ship when it did and the devs just handed over what they had.  And then Capcom turned around and blamed Western Devs as a whole for screwing up their earnings forecasts, since Bionic Commando (which I've heard is a better game than it's given credit for) also didn't sell well.

Bionic Cqommando's pretty fun. I tried it in the free-play area at PAX last year and ended up buying it when I got back.

EnnerJuly 14, 2011

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: Enner

I would give them the benefit of the doubt that they didn't think they would be able to fix issues post-release. PC gamers barely stand for that crap and I would imagine console gamers would just get rid of the game. I would imagine that the Dark Void team had a hard release date and shipped out the game as best they could. Looks like their best wasn't nearly enough.

Considering that the main game looks like its levels are held together with scotch tape, I think it's fairly certain that Capcom just put out an ultimatum that they game had to ship when it did and the devs just handed over what they had.  And then Capcom turned around and blamed Western Devs as a whole for screwing up their earnings forecasts, since Bionic Commando (which I've heard is a better game than it's given credit for) also didn't sell well.

Bionic Commando (2008) gets the most important thing, the swinging, right. However, everything else ranges from mediocre to bad. The poor gun play is marred by an annoyingly weak pistol that you will have to rely on because ammunition for other weapons is low. The levels are constrained with death walls, deadly water, and frequent loads. The bionic gives you such freedom of movement but the levels aren't quite open enough to take full advantage of it. Also, the story is stupid and ends with a quick timing event which I guess is par for course for the shooter genre.

Game has some cool boss fights. The best ones show up early.

NinSageJuly 15, 2011

The new Bionic Commando started off on the wrong foot for me when I saw the new "x-treme" look/attitude for the protagonist.

That sort of thing turns me off immediately.

I actually wrote High Voltage Software an email about my disgust at what they did to Michael Ford in Conduit 2.

Yeah, Bionic Commando is decent. It's nothing special, but it's worth a quick playthrough.

As for Dark Void, I think situations like it and New Vegas are symptomatic of an industry that has yet to really take QA seriously across the board.  Some companies care about the state of their games before they ship, and some don't.  It'll take time and monetary losses to prove to companies that proper testing of their games actually saves them money.  But like Broodwars said, I'm sure on certain levels companies know that certain games aren't going to sell no matter what they do, so they just push the game out the door and hope for the best.

CericJuly 18, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Lindy

Yeah, Bionic Commando is decent. It's nothing special, but it's worth a quick playthrough.

As for Dark Void, I think situations like it and New Vegas are symptomatic of an industry that has yet to really take QA seriously across the board.  Some companies care about the state of their games before they ship, and some don't.  It'll take time and monetary losses to prove to companies that proper testing of their games actually saves them money.  But like Broodwars said, I'm sure on certain levels companies know that certain games aren't going to sell no matter what they do, so they just push the game out the door and hope for the best.

If a game is suspected to do so bad that game crippling bugs aren't going to hurt sells.  Do everyone a favor and just cut your losses and can it.

That's one of the reasons I love Nintendo. They have their faults, but they'd never let shit like that make it through to a shipped product.

broodwarsJuly 18, 2011

Quote from: NWR_insanolord

That's one of the reasons I love Nintendo. They have their faults, but they'd never let **** like that make it through to a shipped product.

Yeah, Nintendo would never ship a title with game-crippling bugs. *cough*Metroid: Other M*cough*

Bugs exist in every game that ever ships.  With games as huge and complicated as they are, it's just impossible to find and fix every issue in every game a company ever makes (and every issue caused by trying to fix every issue).  It's just a matter of how easily they can be found and the damage they can do.  Nintendo does do better QA than most, but bugs still slip through.

That said, horrible QA is the main reason I'm not buying Elder Scrolls 5: Skyrim when it releases.  Bethesda has more than earned its reputation for having utterly inexcusable levels of game-breaking issues in its games, something that is only marginally improved with patches over time.

There's a huge difference between Other M and something like Dark Void or Fallout, which is what I was referring to. And Nintendo would never release a game they new had a bug like that; Other M made it through because they never caught that particular issue.

CericJuly 19, 2011

Personally if I come upon a game crippling bug in 1 play through of a game I think that's ridiculous.  Gold copies should have at least 5 play threws done to make sure nothing major got missed.  I doubt that happens to what becomes the gold copy.  I'm sure they test different segments but not go through the whole game like a player so many times.

Games will have bugs, that's true of any complex piece of software.  I can accept that just not when they crash things.

broodwarsJuly 19, 2011

Quote from: Ceric

Personally if I come upon a game crippling bug in 1 play through of a game I think that's ridiculous.  Gold copies should have at least 5 play threws done to make sure nothing major got missed.  I doubt that happens to what becomes the gold copy.  I'm sure they test different segments but not go through the whole game like a player so many times.

Maybe they do.  It probably depends on the kind of game, how long it is, and how many testers there are.  I'd wager 99% of the bugs that are found by consumers were probably found by testers at some point.  If you find a bug in a modern piece of software, it's probably there because Dev decided it either wasn't worth fixing or they couldn't figure out its origin.

CericJuly 19, 2011

Quote from: broodwars

Quote from: Ceric

Personally if I come upon a game crippling bug in 1 play through of a game I think that's ridiculous.  Gold copies should have at least 5 play threws done to make sure nothing major got missed.  I doubt that happens to what becomes the gold copy.  I'm sure they test different segments but not go through the whole game like a player so many times.

Maybe they do.  It probably depends on the kind of game, how long it is, and how many testers there are.  I'd wager 99% of the bugs that are found by consumers were probably found by testers at some point.  If you find a bug in a modern piece of software, it's probably there because Dev decided it either wasn't worth fixing or they couldn't figure out its origin.

Agreed and as long as they aren't game crippling and very numerous I'm tolerant of that.

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