I guess they're looking at production costs. You know the hardcore/PS3/360 bunch will write Nintendo off for these sort of decisions. But just look at how far flash has come. By next year you could probably buy a 64GB SD card for relatively cheap or a 16GB card for next to nothing. Nintendo is putting the price point in the consumers hands.

8GB is the same amount of storage which the original Xbox had. Its going to be no where near enough for DLC addons and so on. I predict this is going to be yet another excuse 3rd parties are going to use in order to screw Nintendo over yet again. HDD support is a standard feature, so it makes no sense for Nintendo to reject it.

If this rumor is true, this is a sick joke.  My 360 has 120 GB and my PS3 160 GB, and if I didn't routinely delete install data for games I'm no longer playing I would have run out of space a long time ago.  Even deleting old install data, I still only have something like 40-50 gb left on my PS3.

When we have downloadable games and DLC that are multiple GBs in size, only having 8 GB of storage is pathetic.  I sense another patch job in the works to allow SD card storage just like the Wii.

If true, the flash memory would be used for caching to improve game performance and reduce load times. I am sure that on-board storage for downloadable games, DLC, etc. would be stored on expandable SD cards.

I'm fine with it coming with only 8GB, so long as there's a Hard Drive bay and I can buy a hard drive later on.

This has got to be a joke.  There is no reason to use flash memory.  Yes, it has faster read times, but it has slower write times so there is no benefit there.  Intel and Microsoft already tried using it as a high-capacity temporary storage location and it was a total failure for that very reason. 

But the biggest problem is it costs about 10 times more per GB.  Besides, right now you can get 16gb drives for $30, yet this thing isn't coming out for over a year and a half?  By that point 16 gb drives will probably be $10.  So 8 gb is nothing right now, not to mention in 18 months.  If they just bundle it with whatever SD card costs $15 at the time we would have more storage capacity than this. 

If this is true it is an absolutely stupid decision in every imaginable way, and I guarantee that 3rd part DLC content providers will reject the new system because of it.  The next Xbox and PS3 will certainly have at least 320 gb hard drives, more likely 500.  If this announcement is true then Nintendo has already lost the hard-core market with just this one decision.  There is no way any hard core gamer will take a system with 1/20th the storage space of current-gen systems as a legitimate next-gen system.

I agree. I laugh every time I think about about those kiddie consoles that pale in comparison to the 16TB that is available on my PC. We won't even count the NAS either. ;)

Seriously though. It does seem like a bonehead move if true. Still, about the only thing internal storage is good for is save data and DLC... unless they intend to use it as swap space?

What do you mean "patch job"? The rumor is that the console will ship with SD card storage support.

Hard drives are an outdated technology. Get with the times people, Nintendo has.

In the sense that it's a bandaid being placed on an axe wound.  Given this pitiful main storage amount, I'd be surprised if we could actually play the games off the SD card.  We'd probably have a 5-6 GB limit on game size, which would have to temporarily copy into memory like we have with the Wii.

I don't know the technical ins and outs, but it seems like if they design it that way from the beginning, the console could be capable of launching from an SD card. Definitely correct me if this isn't possible, though.

It's what they did for the 3DS so I don't see why it wouldn't carry over for the Wii2/Cafe

The question is whether the Wii 2's internal memory is designed in such a way that the system doesn't have to temporarily copy the data from the SD card before it can be run.  What we have right now with the Wii's SD card support is functional and certainly better than what we started with, but I would hope for better from the next Nintendo console.

Well, the other thing mentioned in this rumor is 25gb game discs. Will this make the 360's DVD look old and busted?

The reason Wii worked the way it did and couldn't be fixed later was because of how the system was designed. Starting with 3DS, a background OS is in place and any changes to that OS will affect all software designed to run on the system instead of each piece of software being designed to run on a specific version of FW (don't remember what it was called) that future updates wouldn't affect.

So if a game was written to load from the internal memory, then a patch that allowed SD card loading wouldn't even matter because the game wouldn't recognize it. And since the system was written without SD loading in mind, no software can actually take advantage of the update. It was a shortsighted mistake that Nintendo has already addressed. "Jimae-shugi" and whatnot.

Yes. And it's most likely blue laser based meaning Bluray w/o the licensing. Just like Wii was DVD w/o licensing and GC was miniDVD w/o the licensing.

This is pretty much going to screw Nintendo on DLC and downloadable games.  Odds are they'll still get the main release but the other consoles will get exclusive DLC and we'll get the same bullshit where a downloadable title is on every format except Wii Ware due to size restrictions.  I predict the Super Wii will lose some third party games because of this and will commonly get the "worst" version of multiplatform releases.

Unless this thing comes with an insanely large SD card but how big to those get and how expensive is it?  The biggest ones I see in stores are 32 GB which is nothing compared to a hard drive.  This is like cartridges vs. CDs again.  Nintendo is all uppity about load times which NO ONE cares about.  Meanwhile hard drives cost less money for more space.  That is why CDs owned the shit out of cartridges and it's the same thing here.  Just looking at Futureshop's web site the biggest SD card they have is 64 GB and it costs $300 while the first TB size hard drive I load up costs only $70.  This is idiotic.

And what I just realized is that for third party games I don't need to buy a Super Wii.  Odds are the Super Wii will get lots of multiplatform titles.  But I already gave up on the Wii and bought a PS3 so I don't need to buy these games on the Super Wii when I can get them on the PS3.  With the storage space issue I can't see myself EVER buying the Super Wii version unless it has some exclusive content to it.  All this time I've been thinking of how Nintendo needs to attract third party support, and they do, but that isn't going to sell anyone who owns another system unless the Super Wii versions are better.  I never thought about that until now.  So if the controls are goofy or the storage space or online play is shitty, I'll just get the PS3 version.  And so many people gave up on the Wii and bought another system so few would be "tied down" to the Super Wii.

Nintendo is more or less showing up for the core gamers crowd five years later after everyone already has another console.  The reason to get the Super Wii will naturally be the first party games but if there are any typical Nintendo goofy shit that compromises multiplatform third party releases in any way those games are going to sell like shit on the Super Wii.

Nintendo has zero wiggle room for fucking around unless they just want to be the casual guys.

Ummm... you are trippin. 64GB SD card is less than $100 and even a 64SSD is only $128 or so.

& 256GB is the largest SD card right now
128GB SD card cost ~$200 & a 128GB SSD ~$230

& if the extra features of the Wii2 version of multi-plat games couldn't convince you to buy the Wii2 version because they don't have the other 120GB of HDD space you wouldn't even need for that game, then good riddance. Nintendo may have lost you but it's not you they are trying to get back.

I am okay with SD storage.  I don't see a need for more than that, with increasing speed and size for a good price.  It's more convenient, smaller, produces less heat, and is potentially faster.

Oh, and 25 GB is good, though I'm sure some will want BR support for movies.  It would be nice, but I think optical formats aren't as relevant as they used to be.  Good HD implementations of the streaming services would be great, though.

I think people are jumping the gun here. People complained/gloated for years that the Wii didn't output in HD. Nintendo claimed it wasn't HD because there wasn't enough market penetration on HD televisions yet. Fast forward a few years, and Microsoft stops including HD cables out of the box with the XBox because internal surveys discovered that only something like 10% of users were actually even using HD cables or utilizing them correctly with TV settings to make it actually make a difference. My point with this is that HD was, and to an extent still is, a talking point. True, 3rd parties got pissy about it and for the most part stopped bothering with ports, but that was really more of a hardware issue. If the Wii could have produced the graphical output of Gears of War in SD, I don't think the HD red herring would have mattered.

So with this potential storage kerfuffle: Sounds like the 8 gigs onboard is indeed probably for game caching, and that the main storage solution will be an SD card slot. People are saying that this will screw up DLC allotment and downloadable game sizes, ect. On the first point, I agree that the SuperWii could miss some DLC. But how many people actually care about DLC outside of core enthusiasts? I'd wager most people aren't necessarily even aware of it most of the time. I have a 360 and I've never bought DLC, partly because I think it's a bullshit business practice, but mostly because very little of it seems appealing or worthwhile. Likewise I have never downloaded a full game. I'd really rather own the disc for sentimental and resell value, and I think most consumers are still in this position. As a result, my 120 G harddrive has barely been scratched. I've tried downloading games from disc to the console, but wasn't able to detect any difference in load times or anything, so I desisted. I have downloaded a few games from Arcade, but these haven't been particularly large, and with the strict low-size requirements on the Wii gone, I don't see why any download-only games wouldn't work on SuperWii.

So, while collectively these issues might be a probably to a segment of heavy usage enthusiasts, big picture I don't think the average consumer is going to care, and that's Nintendo's bottom line. I wouldn't consider myself an average consumer, and this information still isn't making me bat an eye.

If this turns out to be true, I guess Gamecube games on Virtual Console will be out of the question at worst or difficult to manage at best. That is assuming the SD Card will work in the Super Wii as it does in the Wii.

Hey, maybe they'll let us use a hard drive through USB. That would be swell.

This console is supposed to be the one that "brings the core audience back", so I do think it matters what we want out of it.  This whole "well, I guess they don't need this thing we don't to pay for" attitude is a large part of what led to the Wii being summarily abandoned by the 3rd parties.  And sorry, but I'm not going to spend whatever hundreds of dollars on a "next generation" console that's notably inferior to the 360 and PS3 consoles I already own.  Storage size matters as companies are trying to more directly target their consumers and cut costs by going digital.  While we have bad DLC out there, we also have quality DLC like those in Fallout 3 and Mass Effect 2, which range from 500 MB to well over a GB in size for each file.  With these specs, there's nowhere to put that.

And let's say that Nintendo intends us all to use SD cards for storage.  Nintendo won't mandate that people use that, so we're still tethered to size limits built around an 8 GB storage capacity.  Sorry, but digital downloads have long-since surpassed that kind of storage.

Why would you assume that? Why wouldn't you assume that it would work the same was as it does in the 3DS and allow you to launch directly from the SD card?

Why don't you upgrade your HDD then? I installed a 500gb HDD on my friend's PS3 replacing his old 80gb. Its ridiculously simple to do and all you need is a screwdriver. I heard the 360 only accepts proprietary expensive Microsoft approved HDDs, so upgrading that is more expensive, but the PS3 will accept any generic 2.5" HDD with no problem.

I should do that.

What if the hard drive is THE CLOUD? 8gb is just for temp files. Nintendo bleeding edge cuts everyone's eyelids clean off.

Also, MagicCow is pretty smart.

Well I said I wouldn't buy the Super Wii version unless it had some extra content.  So, yeah, if there are extra features then the storage issue wouldn't turn me off.  But if it's the exact same game I might as well go PS3 so as to preserve my Super Wii storage space.

Exactly.  Nintendo has been all "well you don't really need this" and "that's good enough" since the N64 and that is the root of all of their problems.  Always excuses and workarounds and this arrogant expectation that people will cut them slack for no reason.  As long as they continue with this attitude they'll only succeed with kids, casuals and die hard Nintendo fans ie: people too loyal or ignorant to call them on their bullshit.

If they're going to get this wrong, and they are getting it wrong, especially when inadequate storage was an issue on the Wii, what else are they going to flub?  That's the thing.  If they can't get this right, and this is EASY stuff, will they have a good online plan?  Not an improved online plan, because improving from their very crappy one is not hard, but a GOOD one.  Can they actually design hardware third parties will want to use and have good development kits and offer a business model that makes it worthwhile for third parties to bother supporting them?

If you can't get the little stuff right how can you get the big stuff right?  With the Gamecube I think the problem that almost all of the little stuff was just slightly wrong and as a result the whole system was just incredibly average and unexceptional.  It was like for every bulletpoint the Cube was never the best choice and was frequently the worst.  If you're trying to win people back how can do that when you provide them with endless reasons to ignore you?  The N64 and Wii had serious flaws that completely sabotaged third party support.  The Cube meanwhile was just there being completely unexceptional and often being inferior.

The Wii successor has to be the BEST console.  Not an okay console or "good enough" but the best.  Or at least it should strive to be the best.  But we already know that for the storage bullet point it will be the worst and this is completely avoidable and obvious and is in comparison to a system that is already 6 years old.  With Nintendo's track record they aren't going to get this wrong and everything else right.  This is going to be just one of many completely avoidable mistakes.

Ian, why must you always be the buzz killing pessimist who has to assume that only the worst case scenario is most likely?



Me: OMG I won the Lotto!!! HAHAHA!!!
Ian: But now you gotta pay the taxes and they are gonna take as close to 50%...
Me: bu.....
Ian: and don't forget those credit card debts and student loans....
Me: ....
Ian: and now you know that you have to dodge family and....
Me: ...:(
Ian: and ... and .... and :words:

If true this shouldn't be a problem I think. SD cards are cheap and are getting larger. Those that would be willing to buy DLC would be willing to pick up a SD card or cards. Also aren't they less likely to go bad compared to a hard drive? Lack of moving parts and all that? Or is that just in regard to Flash memory. The biggest issue with this might be that it makes it easier for people to pirate DLC or to hack the system. For this reason alone I hope this is false.

Flash memory I can deal with. 8GB should be fine for most DLC. Think about which games get DLC the most and how big it usually is. FPS in terms of map packs, music games for songs, and games like Fallout 3. When most people move on to the next FPS they usually don't go back. So cleaning house for them shouldn't be a problem. Games like Fallout might be a problem. Combined the Broken Steel and Point Lookout download content  for Fallout 3 is over 1gb I believe. However DLC like this is rare. Between VC games, downloadable scaled games, DLC such as costumes, maps, modes, etc 8GB or around a little higher should be enough really.

What this will be to small for and wouldn't work with would be downloading of movies, music, TV shows, and the installation and downloading of full console games. PS3 and 360 have services like this. If Nintendo isn't going to have services like this on their system then they don't need massive storage. If they allow streaming like Netflix or music programs why do they need 100GB+ hard drives?

Still more storage is always good. If Nintendo is really talking to developers when it came to developing this then I expect them to have more storage in the end. Kotaku is the source of this remember. That should say enough.

1985: NES launches but the cartridges have to be blown on in order to work.

1991: SNES launches with cartridges that do not have to be blown in order to work, but has a slow ass processor.

1996: N64 launches with a powerful processor, but is missing an optical drive.

2001: The GC includes an optical drive, but uses tiny discs and has no online support.

2006: The Wii adds big discs and online support, but is missing HD.

2011-2012: The Cafe launches with HD, Online, and Blu-ray but is missing HDD.


It seems like whenever Nintendo addresses the problems of their previous consoles they always neglect some other important detail.

Because so far just cleaning house every once in a while is keeping the storage problem in check.  If I find that I can no longer keep it in check, like you said it's easy to upgrade.  It's not like I'm trying to manage 8 GB of storage when my games have multi-GB files.

EDIT: And you might want to update your listing of Nintendo screw-ups with the N64.  Remember that that console didn't have a dedicated sound system either, so the console had to divide processing power from the game to do music.

1) This is still unconfirmed.
2) Hard drives = moving parts = more potential for hardware problems.
3) Who's to say they won't support a USB hard drive in addition, offering developers the option to require it?

Exactly, this is all still unconfirmed, and who's to say that Nintendo isn't planning a WiiFit type game that requires the HDD and they pack it in.... something like a Pokemon RPG with a packed in 60GB HDD?

But why would I be willing to buy an SD Card if I can get the same DLC for the PS3 without buying an SD Card?  See, that's just the standard Nintendo excuses again.  Yes, there is a workaround and, yes, this is totally doable but why should anyone jump through hoops for one console when they don't have to for the other one?

If they allow for the option to connect a USB hard drive then it will probably be fine.  But since when does Nintendo provide options?

To me it's just as simple as the idea that if the other consoles don't require me to "make do" then Nintendo shouldn't.  Hell, the big problem with the friend codes was that the other guys don't make their users go through that hassle so why should we have to?  If that was the only way to play online games of any sort it wouldn't matter.

Why should I be willing to buy a Move controler if I can get the same waggle for the Wii without buying a move controller?

Protip: 3DS comes with an SD card bundled. Maybe this will too.

But why shoudl you be willing to buy an external USB HDD to get the same DLC for PS3 w/o buying an external USB HDD? See, I can play this stupid game too. Yes, there is a workaround, yes this is totally doable but why should anyone jump through hoops for you when you will never be satisfied regardless of what they do?

If they pack an extra SDHC card in teh box of say 16GB or so then will you shut up? Nintendo did it with the extra 2GB card for the 3DS so it's not like it hasn't happened before.

To me it just seems like if Nintendo didn't do the exact same thing as the other consoles, then they didn't do it right. The big problem is that you would be happier with a console that is not Nintendo's but complain because the other console makes don't make games as good as Nintendo. Simple solution is to own both. Now go find something else to complain about.

I agree with Ian. Being able to buy SD cards and expand the storage is nice, but not everyone is going to do it, and since that wouldn't be an out of the box feature its something that developers aren't going to take into consideration. The Gamecube technically was capable of online play because Nintendo made a broadband adapter and a modem for it, so a workaround for the Gamecube did exist but since this required an additional purchase and wasn't a standard built in feature there was only one or two games which ever made any use of it.

So SD cards are probably going to be the same way, where there will be a small handful of games which require them or make use of them, but that's it. Unless Nintendo included it by default its not going to be supported by developers. Instead of requiring a work around, what is more likely to happen is those features will be stripped out of the Cafe version, or those games may not even come to the Cafe at all.

And like I've said before, 64gb isn't enough. 160Gb of storage on a PS3 or 360 isn't enough for people who make lots of download. So being able to expand the Cafe to 64gb doesn't solve the problem; it only mitigates it.

Having an SD card slot built into the system that allows for direct loading off of an SD card isn't a "standard built in feature" because you have to buy the SD card that goes into the slot?

I need to take a break from the internet today.... just for a little while.
You're making my head hurt.


edit: and adding a 64GB SD card to your system woudl then expand it to 72 GB (8 + 64), but I still don't understand what you would be using all that space for when

Also a faster Bluray drive would solve the need for game installs unless your motive was purely to not swap disc to play different games. But I've already pointed all this out in the Rumor thread where the quote above is from.

Cloud gaming/storage anyone? I have a feeling Nintendo is going to do something "cloud" based this time around.

It isn't because they're doing it different, it's because they're doing it different and WORSE.  Flash memory costs MORE money for LESS storage.  It's simple arithmetic.  And being chincy with the storage was a problem with the Wii and yet here they are being chincy with the storage yet again.

I legitimately consider it to be inferior because it blantantly is.  No one is telling me it's better or as good.  They're just giving me the same lame "well we can make do" excuses that always come up when Nintendo does something goofy.

I would rather not have to buy a hard drive for the Super Wii when I didn't have to with the PS3 but at least then it's hard drive vs. hard drive and not flash storage vs. hard drive.

And we're speculating over what Nintendo is going to do with the Super Wii and how they could improve things.  Storage was an issue on the Wii and here they are with something inferior to what the competition has had for YEARS.  Well what they hell did they learn from the Wii storage problem if they can't recognize the potential issue with this storage implementation?  It suggests that they learned nothing and are oblivious to what the problem ever was in the first place.  And if they're oblivious about this then they're probably oblivious about a lot of stuff like third party support or online gaming.

Nintendo lives in their own little bubble so they frequently screw up routine stuff that anybody with the most basic knowledge of the videogame industry as a whole would get right.  Well this whole thing just reaks of the sort of idea that a company living in a bubble would come up with.  Bubble Nintendo ain't going to cut it.  Bubble Nintendo is always going to be behind the times.  They have to change if they want different results.

Cloud gaming is extremely impractical for the vast majority of consumers.  We just don't have the infrastructure in place to supply that huge amount of high-speed internet worldwide to most consumers.  I could see Cloud being used for saves, but saves take up so little space and aren't the problem here.  The big problem is DLC and game installs, neither of which can be helped by Cloud storage.

This is the onboard storage we are talking about, not the expandable memory.
Nintendo learned their mistake with SD Card support on the Wii and fixed it on the 3DS, now you can load software straight from the SD card. Also this "rumor" never said there won't be optional HDD support, all it said was "will not include a traditional hard-drive".

As far as onboard memory goes

And I also said it before but I'll say it again, Nintendo could always throw in a free SD card with the system like they did with the 3DS.
Even if they just match the included flash by giving a free 8GB card, you would still have 16GB available @ launch, and that sounds like plenty until you use one of those those other SD cards you likely have laying around somewhere or go buy a bigger one.

Sheesh, you sound like Congress arguing over budget cuts.  Whether we have 8 GB or 16 GB of storage at launch like your hypothesize, the underlying problem is that that's still way too small.  My original PS3 had 80 GB of storage, and even that was too small for the means of installing and downloading games.  If Nintendo's serious about solving storage issues, we need to be talking in the > 100 GB range, especially since by the time this console launches downloadable and mandatory-install games will only have gotten bigger in size.

I would be surprised if Nintendo allowed mandatory installs. I'd also like a link confirming any downloadable game that was designed as a downloadable game that's even close to 8 GB.

I'd certainly prefer there were more storage than this, but in the end it's not important what I want, but what third parties want. What everyone in this thread is worried about is how this might affect support for the system. Based on everything we've heard so far (which, admittedly, is far from comprehensive) everyone who has seen the hardware is happy with it. Let's hold off on declaring the system dead at least until it's been officially announced.

250 GB HDD or bust, as far as I'm concerned.

Do it right. Do it well. Nintendo, I'm watching you.

when these hard drives in the ps3 and 360 start dying off I am going to laugh and laugh.

I don't care for them but if it comes down to "mandatory install or we just don't bother releasing a Super Wii version at all" I think I would take the mandatory install.  I just want them to be flexible for third parties.

When Nintendo is in its 3rd year of Wii 2 and it has no 3rd party support because of stuff like this, I am going to laugh and laugh.  If Nintendo doesn't want to use HDDs, fine but offer a good alternative.  This rumored storage size is a joke.

Microsoft doesn't allow mandatory installs on the 360, and they've managed to maintain fairly decent third party support.

Why would be be installing games? The only reason for that beyond laziness on the PS3 was slow Bluray drives which casued them to duplicate a lot of data all over the disc and I would hope that Nintendo would spring for newer faster drives than what are in the PS3 (assuming they are using bluray).

You probably won't be downloading movies (we'll probably just be streaming) and I've detailed the size of most other downloadable stuff, so what is all that extra space for?
Demos? I know those can get pretty big, but how many of them do you need at once?

What do you need 100+ gigs for anyhow? Piracy?

Full downloaded games, demos/game trials, DLC packs, game installs, and videos.  That eats up space very quickly, even on the 360 where installing is not mandatory (but can help very much in speeding up loading times).

Did people complain this much about the lack of a hard drive in the 3DS?

So wait, you care about speed when its dvd vs hard drive, but don't care about speed when it's hard drive vs solid state memory?

Loading times will already be improved therefore eliminating the need for game installs by not using a 1xBluray drive and instead using a much more recent 8xBluray drive instead1

Most DLC is under 100MB, demos can get a little big, but they can be made to be within a certain size limit if need be and I don't think Nintendo will be allowing full retail games to be downloaded.

I'm not sure why you would have videos (gameplay videos? videochat logs?), but I'm sure there would be better places to store them, like online?

You can forget any kind of reliance on cloud storage. That is far outside of Nintendo's networking capabilities. Even if they hired an outside firm to manage it for them, it wouldn't be a key feature because a large percentage of console owners don't connect their systems online at all.

Oh!

Because I don't have a 3DS and wasn't aware of this particular ability.
Nintendo seems to be recognizing the importance of a system's storage solutions so I do hope that Project Cafe will have something that makes it easy to store gigs of stuff if I so choose so. I guess SD cards could work, but I would at least prefer the ability to hook up a hard drive.

You really think Nintendo would include a faster Blu Ray drive (this is assuming they go BR)? And I recall you mentioning a non-proprietary HDD in the other topic? Are we talking about the same Nintendo? Because the Nintendo I'm privy to makes everything proprietary and takes the cheaper option every single time. I sure would have liked a faster optical drive when playing Super Smash Bros. Brawl.

I am still going with my hunch that Nintendo will provide a HDD port for the Super Wii and expect the consumer to provide their own hard drive because the technology is so widely proliferated that anyone ahould be able to get a large enough HDD to accomodate their own needs and tastes. Let's also assume that Nintendo will allow external HDD support via a USB port, which would be another better solution. Nintendo got criticized big time for the way the Wii's system memory was handled with the SD card, so I see them bypassing all the BS and allowing consumers the quickest and easiest way to solve the storage issues: HDD.

But what about the longevity of the HDD technology? It would seem that although the technology does have moments of faultiness, overall the technology is relatively cheap and easy to replace that Nintendo should be alarmed with failing HDDs.

I have demos, games, HD movies on my PS3 and it's only taking up 17 gigs. Really, you people are crazy. You don't like it? Don't buy it, simple as that. Plus, most people don't but DLC. For instance, I don't and many of my friends who are "hardcore" gamers don't either.

I doubt cloud storage would work for people in larger cities, it just isn't feasible.

Same. In fact, I've only used around 4 GB on mine.

If you weren't aware of that, then you might not have also been aware that Nintendo packed in a free 2GB SD card with the 3DS too.

So it's entirely possible and plausible that if there is no HDD built in, that Nintendo would pack in a free SD card (already installed) to increase storage space out of the box.

I would guess at minimum 8GB and at best 32GB (like my phone)
4GB SD card goes for less than $10 ($4 - $8)
8GB SD card retails for close to $15 ($11 - $18)
16GB SD card goes for around $25 ($20 - $30)
32GB SD card will run you about $50 ($44 - $56)

I would imagine in the bulk Nintendo would order these things, they could get them at a fraction of the price I would pay above and cost them next to nothing in the grand scheme of things to include out of the box.

Nintendo didn't use proprietary SD cards even though they did sell a Nintendo branded version for 30% above retail value for those that didn't know any better.

I assume they might do the same with HDD's too just so that there is one in the console gaming section for the casuals to purchase without having to go shop around or wander around the store.

My perception of data storage is not in-tune to home console systems at all since my gaming system other than a Wii is a PC with a 500 GB hard drive full of music, pictures, videos, and games. The Super Wii will probably have mostly games on a drive and little of the rest. Blindly assuming (once again) that Nintendo won't go Steam-y with all games, I can see how having a big SD card will be pretty okay.

Oh, I was aware of the nice little SD card that came packed in. I just wasn't aware of the details in how the card can be used and accessed.

Is the iPhone4 more powerful than the 360?

I see no reason for an incredibly large HDD, and I also see no reason to limit that feature. SD cards are good enough for most people, but allowing people to install their own HDD's would be a much more elegant solution.

If they are really trying to capture the 'hardcore' market, they shouldn't contain themselves.

and for everyone that thinks that just because no HDD is in the box means that there won't be any HDD support, just remember that Nintendo almost pulled the trigger on HDD support for the Wii and even updated the firmware with some USB HDD & keyboard compatibility.

I just assume that they figured there was no point to HD support on the Wii since none of the older games could even take advantage of it and they should save it for the next round of consoles.


Time for a trip in the way back machine
~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/03/29/nintendo-revolution-to-support-external-hdds-and-other-3rd-party-s/

And we all know that Nintendo never lets an idea just die... it just get thrown back into the pot to cook some more until the time is ready.
I think that time is now. and I know that we are ready.

As long as it's expandable I see no problem. The 3DS is expandable, it comes with 2 gig SD card, and I can swap it out anytime I want.

Maybe this is a misunderstanding and it is really the controllers that have 8GB of flash storage.  That would actually be reasonable, probably adding $3-4 to the price of the controller by the time the system actually comes out.

there is no console, it's all in the controller.

The home console is actually just streaming the video and audio to the TV. The true power is in your hands!

Its inferior in terms of cost and storage capacity, but you have to admit there are some aspects to it which are superior to a HDD. For example, you don't have moving parts which means it isn't likely to wear out. Plus even though the cost per GB is much greater than that of a HDD, it is cheaper to toss an 8GB flash thing onto the console than to add even the cheapest available HDD. 8GB of flash may cost $8 or something, but a hard drive might cost $50, so flash is still cheaper per unit. Its only much more expensive on a per GB basis. I guess the read/write access speed of flash is also much quicker than that of a HDD and that may be useful somehow. *shrug*

I wish it could be both instead of either or. $10 onboard flash and a $50 hard drive is still only $60 and if that meant paying that much more for the console I would do it. Having both would be the best of both worlds.

Going to put another bit of my 2 cents in here.  Flash is fast.  I recently bought a MacBook Air for my wife because it has almost no moving parts, she couldn't break the power adapter tip like she normally does with the Magsafe plug on it, and the aluminum case and not moving part makes it relatively drop resistant.  Spec wise I opted for the tricked out 11 inch so it has the slightly faster processor but I really did that for the more memory.  All this is to tell you that spec wise its really equivalent to a computer from about 4 years ago.  My machine upstairs is technically faster.  The thing blazes.  10 seconds from power button to Useable OS.  3 Second Shutdown.  Instant waking and sleeping.  You click something and the animation is whats holding its back.  We are talking serious responsiveness here.  All that is due to its use of Flash for storage.

Flash is fast for reading, but it is slow for writing.  The things people are talking about here, using it is a temporary storage location for streaming or in-game content, would see no benefit because they require both reading and writing. 

As I pointed out before, Microsoft tried using flash memory as a temporary storage location in Windows Vista, but the slow write times meant it had no real benefit.  Intel even released a dedicated mini flash memory drive to take advantage of this, called Turbo Memory, but once again the slow write times meant it didn't help in real life.

So it does not offer any benefit as a temporary storage locations, the space is too small to be useful as a permanent storage location, this is a console not a handheld so the small difference in power consumption is not a real issue, since this is a console it isn't going to move while running so the moving parts are not a major issue, and it costs about ten times more per GB.  There are simply no benefits whatsoever to using flash memory in a console for consumers.  None.  The only possible benefit is that the lowest-price flash memory might cost less than the lowest-price hard drives (it is already hard to find any flash memory below 2 gb these days, by late next year 4 gb will probably already be on the way out).  But that is simply Nintendo cutting corners to the detriment of consumers.

If I'm not mistaken the write time of Flash memory is faster then the Read time of Optical media.  I went to find a good chart with all of them on but I can't find it.  Nothing and I repeat nothing will ever be a better scratch pad then RAM.

The game would loading to the faster reading Flash as your playing and the unneeded data would just fall off as you pass it in the game so effective the game is streaming on this faster reading memory instead of the slower optical media which could all start when the initial logo credits are running.  Essential this is what hackers did to play GCN roms if memory serves but with a network connection.

I think the important thing is that the Super Wii has sufficient storage for saves, patches and DLC and will continue to several years from now when it will likely have to compete with PS3 and Xbox 360 successors and will want to be included in multiplatform releases.  I think HDD support is the way to ensure that but those specifics are not that important.  What matters is that three years from now Nintendo is not running into storage problems because they handcuffed themselves to something that is too restrictive.  It is imperative that Nintendo design their storage solution with the future in mind instead of what will save them some money for next quarter.

The correct solution is a longterm one and in this case I fear Nintendo is being shortsighted.

Rumor says that they are not including a HDD, not that they won't support one.

Just wait till E3 and stop giving yourself premature gray hair.
Iwata has said a lot of encouraging things lately and we should atleast give him the chance to back it up.

I hope the rumor is false, or at worst it just means there is going to be a low end version of Cafe which lacks a hard drive ala the 4gb Xbox 360 but doesn't exclude an additional high end model which does include a HDD. I would gladly pay an additional $50-$100 more for a higher end Cafe that includes a HDD and other bundled perks. If the 360 can do that, why can't Nintendo? The low end 8gb model can be marketed to casuals and the high end can be more for hardcore gamers who tend to spend more on DLC and therefore need the extra storage.

I can tell you why.  SKU confusion.  For anyone who reads or post on this forum this is not a large problem but, for the rest of the world having multiple different SKU's muddles things and the feelings of people who know who parents and like get the "inferior" version.  If getting the console doesn't make Timmy happy, which is the parents reward, then getting him other products from that company/for that system may also not make Timmy Happy, a no reward all loss situation.

The same people who be labeled hardcore would be willing to just buy a HDD, undo the two screws to put it in, and then go brag how their is now awesome because it has an HDD and their l33t  because they did the mod themselves.

SKU confusion is something to think about but I wouldn't get too hung up on it. After all, Apple's newest iPad version has 18 SKUs, and it's still one of the most casual-friendly gadgets in existence, from a marketing standpoint. People might be a bit confused by it but I don't think it's a deal breaker for anyone.

Does anyone want Nintendo to pull a MS and sell them a $35 HDD for $100?

I'd rather buy it myself and spend the extra money on a game or 2.

Besides, chances are that if they don't include one at launch they would include it with a big game like Pokemon MORPG.

Flash has several advantages:
Cheaper unit cost (at ~32GB and under)
Smaller
Quieter
More durable

I would guess that a very significant proportion of xBox users don't use more than 8 GB (especially since Microsoft sells the Arcade 360 :-) )  Think about the number of people who never go online with their console.

The hard drive size on modern consoles are vast overkill for most people, and are only so big because the unit cost on a 50GB and 500GB hard drive is the same.

I do fine with a 4GB flash drive on my 360, though I'm not a heavy gamer with that system.

With SD support and external HD support, I'd prefer Nintendo to ship with flash.

The only other option I would like is a hard drive without an optical drive, with a Steam-like service.  That isn't going to happen this next generation though.