Once again NOA proves they no longer care about real gamers and only care about nongamers. This continued focus on worthless products like this is tiring. I am no longer a Nintendo fan because I cannot take any more of this obsession with these games. The normal games have suffered so much because of the hundreds of non-games. Shame on you Nintendo!

It'll be interesting to see how well this does in the US. I can't imagine it being as big a hit here as it was in Japan, but I have no idea why I think that.

I found the demo fun, just it counts my 9's as 4's ugh

Artimus what in the world are you talking about? This may be for a different group of people, but they're certainly still games. I'd hardly call titles that have sold over a million copies "worthless". There's clearly something addictive about them if they're getting people who have never cared about games to pick them up.

Traditional titles like Mario Kart have never been better. The teams working on these projects are small and some of the staff are from outside of Nintendo. They're certainly not taking focus away from other games. For that, you'll need to blame the massive Zelda team and Revolution development.

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Originally posted by: Artimus
Once again NOA proves they no longer care about real gamers and only care about nongamers. This continued focus on worthless products like this is tiring. I am no longer a Nintendo fan because I cannot take any more of this obsession with these games. The normal games have suffered so much because of the hundreds of non-games. Shame on you Nintendo!

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I think he was being sarcastic because people constantly complain that Nintendo is thinking too much about this non gamer games. Some think that they will cater too much to this new audience and leave the hardcore gamers out in the cold. I know they haven't and theres a 99.9% itll never happen.

Wow, it looks like Nintendo is doing everything they can to avoid another DS drought this year. I really like how they're spacing out their titles this year, I think it will ultimately translate into more consistent sales numbers. That being said I really hope this game is released with budget pricing. If they release it at 20 bucks, I think consumers will be much more willing to take a risk on it (and buy the follow up the next month).

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Originally posted by: Artimus
Once again NOA proves they no longer care about real gamers and only care about nongamers. This continued focus on worthless products like this is tiring. I am no longer a Nintendo fan because I cannot take any more of this obsession with these games. The normal games have suffered so much because of the hundreds of non-games. Shame on you Nintendo!

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
The GC, on the other hand, has been left out in the cold to die.

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This will be the real test to see if the non-gamer strategy flies in North America. This is the big non-gamer success in Japan yet it's always been questioned if it do as well here.

Electroplankton wasn't the best test because it bombed everywhere. Nintendogs wasn't the best test because as a puppy simulator it still has a lot of resemblance to "real" games. But the brain testing games are totally unlike anything you typically see on a games system. Unlike Nintendogs this really looks like a title that traditional gamers wouldn't really be all that interested in. So thus it's the perfect test.

*rolls eyes*

Whose test is this? Your test? I don't think NOA is looking at this as a test.

I thought NIntendo might bite the bullot and release both games on one package.
If the game bombs and than the next month another version comes out I doubt retailers will carry it
so its a gamble. I might pick it up for a budget or regular pice.
No way I will pay $34.99 or $39.99 for it.

On a sidenote anyone know how that brain test game on PSP is doing sales wise?

"Whose test is this? Your test? I don't think NOA is looking at this as a test."

Nintendo is banking a lot on their non-gamer strategy. However the strategy is an answer to a "crisis" that apparently exists in Japan but doesn't exist here in the biggest game market in the world. Thus I think it's pretty important to see if it works here as well. It won't do Nintendo any good for example to fill the Rev launch with non-games for example if non-games don't sell in North America. They would launch with a weak lineup of games no one wants to buy.

It's just common sense to make sure a worldwide strategy created in response to a localized issue truly works worldwide before putting too many resources into it.

So is Big Brain Academy the equivalent of Brain Training for Adults? If so, I'm all over it. I'm just not sure I could get into the kid one, as it would probably be too simple for someone my age.

Ian: I don't think non-games are what comes out of the non-gamer strategy, games with simple controls and pick-up-and-play mentality are for non-gamers. This is just Nintendo cashing in on the software toys market.

Big Brain Academy is the second one. It's sort of confusing with all the different names and translations.

The second one? Meaning the second Brain Training for Adults (which was released three or four weeks ago in Japan)or Brain Training for Kids (which was released after Brain Training for Adults)?

This is great! I've been hoping this would localized. Artimus, you are trippin'! I wonder if I got this and a DS for Momz would it ward off alzheimers?

I've never been a fan of Nintendo's non-gamer strategy. This isn't to say I didn't love Nintendogs (it did get tedious after two weeks, but that's besides the point), and this isn't to say that I'm not a fan of the Rev controller, but the real reason I don't like the strategy as a whole is because...well, it's going to fail. Not in Japan of course. Nintendogs is one of the biggest sellers of all time over there, and a recent poll (in Famitsu I believe) shows that Rev interest is skyrocketing. But in America, it's going to be an absolute failure. I don't know about in Japan, but I know over here that all - not most or some, all - mainstream gamers are stupid and braindead and would rather have Halo 19: COMBAT STILL NOT EVOLVED and Madden 20012: YA REALISTIC RAINFALL SRSLY than play with a dog or use their brains. Nintendogs...wasn't a failure, but it didn't appeal to the mainstream. This doesn't even appeal to me as a gamer, forget the mainstream.

I know Artimus was being sarcastic, but if the focus remains on non-games, this coming gen may very well be Nintendo's last generation as a console maker.

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Nintendogs...wasn't a failure, but it didn't appeal to the mainstream. This doesn't even appeal to me as a gamer, forget the mainstream.

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I'm probably gonna pick this one up. It's perfect for me, since I really haven't flexed any brain muscle since college classes. I blame TV, it's ruined my imagination and my ability to... um... uh........

Brain Training exists to help the DS print money for Nintendo. Be glad it's had lots of success so far, generating a lot of R&D funds without the help of POKINGMON.

I LOVED the demo, and I generally hate learning and using my brain in general. But once you see hilarious floating head, you just want to keep playing.



"IT'S GREAT FOR YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY"
"What about me?"
"NO. ONLY YOUR FRIENDS AND FAMILY"

The thing to keep in mind is that winning massive support in Japan will drastically increase games being localized stateside. Think about it. If Japanese companies like Capcom, Square Enix, Namco/Bandai, etc all see Nintendo as a massive force to be reckoned with in Japan (via their non-gamer strategy), they'll makes games on the Rev, pure and simple. And that creates more third party support, which of course breeds a larger and more varied library, in which case those not into non-games won't have to worry; there'll be tons of other games to choose from. The beauty in it is that if Nintendo secures a bunch of third party support (as can be seen with the DS), it won't matter as much what Nintendo puts out; they won't be your only option anymore.

Oh neat, they've thrown SuDoku into the American version.



Everyone seems to get excited in the pants over that lately!

That box art looks suspiciously like my avatar.

"Way to miss the boat completely. The non-gamer strategy is there to create a new market, not appeal only to the old one."

True but what if Nintendo fails to create this new market in North America? Then they risk being stuck with a bunch of games that the existing market has no interest in.

People bring up the DS a lot as proof that everything is going great. But the first six months of the DS life was horrible. There weren't any really great games. At that point the lineup was largely glorified mini-game stuff. I think it's a big example of neglecting the existing gamer market for the non-gamer one. So if they do the same thing with the Rev but the non-gamer stuff doesn't take off in North America they're screwed. Therefore it's incredibly important that that strategy is somewhat proven to work over here.

Plus personally I think it's a little silly to try to attract a new market when Nintendo can't even attract the existing market worth crap. I think Nintendo should concentrate more on regaining the huge amount of console market share they've lost before attracting a new unproven market. Non-gamer product is not going to attract the existing market back so if it fails to catch on Nintendo's got nothing.

"The thing to keep in mind is that winning massive support in Japan will drastically increase games being localized stateside. Think about it. If Japanese companies like Capcom, Square Enix, Namco/Bandai, etc all see Nintendo as a massive force to be reckoned with in Japan (via their non-gamer strategy), they'll makes games on the Rev, pure and simple. And that creates more third party support, which of course breeds a larger and more varied library, in which case those not into non-games won't have to worry; there'll be tons of other games to choose from. The beauty in it is that if Nintendo secures a bunch of third party support (as can be seen with the DS), it won't matter as much what Nintendo puts out; they won't be your only option anymore."

Yeah but if Nintendo's success is based on non-gamer stuff then won't third parties be more likely to release their own non-gamer stuff? That doesn't help me any. I only care about third party support that provides more games I'm interested in. I will still help to an extent but it really depends on what's being made. And saying it won't matter what Nintendo puts out because they're not our only option makes no sense. Nintendo is the most important developer for a Nintendo fan. If they're not releasing stuff I'm interested in then there's no point in owning their console at all. If Nintendo wasn't a crucial part of the equation then I think all of us who care about third party support would have jumped to Sony along with Square back in 1997.

It all depends on what is actually being made. Nintendo could sell more consoles then Sony ever has but if it was with the supreme non-gamer console they might as well have gone under. Who cares about Nintendo's success if they achieve it with an audience you're not a part of?

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Nintendogs wasn't the best test because as a puppy simulator it still has a lot of resemblance to "real" games.

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Who cares about Nintendo's success if they achieve it with an audience you're not a part of?

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Huh... this actually looks interesting. I'll probably be picking it up.

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Originally posted by: KnowsNothing
That box art looks suspiciously like my avatar.

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That would sell five million copies in a day =o

LOL!! /\ /\

Seriously though, I'm psyched about this too....but I gotta give the award to most anticipated game to that DS Tetris.....yeah BUDDY!!

Perhaps I am missing something in Ian's comment, but what in the world is the big deal about DS struggling game wise, the first six months (though some of the games along with the system sold quite well). Most new systems (ESPECIALLY HANDHELDS) struggle for a few months before they find their way, the DS was a completely new concept to handheld gaming so of course there was a small dry spell, it was bound to happen especially with Nintendo pushing it out for christmas.

Yeah, don't mind Ian. He feels the need to paste his one block of text into every single thread, no matter what the thread is about.

"Brain Training!"
"WHERE IS GAMECUBE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT. I DON'T KNOW IF NINTENDOGS WILL SELL, NINTENDO IS IN TROUBLE BECAUSE THERE IS NO GRAND THEFT AUTO, I PREDICT CERTAIN DOOM"

"DS is a massive success!"
"WHERE IS GAMECUBE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT. I DON'T KNOW IF NINTENDOGS WILL SELL, NINTENDO IS IN TROUBLE BECAUSE THERE IS NO GRAND THEFT AUTO, I PREDICT CERTAIN DOOM"

"LOST is a good show!"
"WHERE IS GAMECUBE THIRD PARTY SUPPORT. I DON'T KNOW IF NINTENDOGS WILL SELL, NINTENDO IS IN TROUBLE BECAUSE THERE IS NO GRAND THEFT AUTO, I PREDICT CERTAIN DOOM"

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Originally posted by: kirby_killer_dedede
I know Artimus was being sarcastic, but if the focus remains on non-games, this coming gen may very well be Nintendo's last generation as a console maker.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
True but what if Nintendo fails to create this new market in North America? Then they risk being stuck with a bunch of games that the existing market has no interest in.

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I really wantred to get electroplankton as a musician it so interests me more than I can tell. But brain training is actualy perfect for a handheld, when you go on road trips or if your stuck somewhere waiting for a long time its nice to have a game that you can show to family memebrs who arent into games at all, besides teh UNIVERSALY accpeted Tetris.

Oye. This conversation again. Nintendo can make all the Brain Age and Nintendog games they want AS LONG AS they don't neglect their more involved GOOD epics, create new ones, AND get more 3rd party support (of "gamer" games) as well. "Good" is subjective, but such is life if you claim to be an everybody company.

And before anybody says they won't neglect them, or there will be more 3rd party support, there's no proof of that yet. However, my Cube will have basically collected dust for over a year by the time Zelda is released. If the past predicts the future, then a segment of Nintendo fans are screwed... at least on the console front.

Thank god for MK DS... i.e. digital crack. Wish it could be taken intravenously.

"I don't want games for 'everybody', I want games for ME!" - Ian's logic to Nintendo's previous strategy of "games for everyone" that they had since the NES.

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Oye. This conversation again. Nintendo can make all the Brain Age and Nintendog games they want AS LONG AS they don't neglect their more involved GOOD epics, create new ones, AND get more 3rd party support (of "gamer" games) as well. "Good" is subjective, but such is life if you claim to be an everybody company.

And before anybody says they won't neglect them, or there will be more 3rd party support, there's no proof of that yet. However, my Cube will have basically collected dust for over a year by the time Zelda is released. If the past predicts the future, then a segment of Nintendo fans are screwed... at least on the console front.

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Wait, what, you're trying to say one caused the other?

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"Honestly, I think Brain Training is WAY more of a 'game' than Nintendogs. Brain Training is about doing challenges, beating scores, etc. Nintendogs you just poke a dog and watch what it does."

To me the difference is that Nintendogs really wouldn't work at all except in game format. But the Brain Training games look like something that could be replicated on paper with a pencil. Brain Training is something that doesn't have to be made in videogame format in order to work. So I see it as more of an example of a non-game and a better test. Nintendo is taking something that doesn't have to be a videogame and making it a videogame to attract people who don't game to their system. It's like putting crossword puzzles or board games or free flash games on a game system and hoping that the people who already have access to these things will buy a game system to play them.

And when I talk about the non-gamer strategy in relation to the DS I'm not just talking about the really "pure" non-games like Electroplankton. I'm also including the short simple glorified mini-games that were all over the DS when it was first released. Nintendo talks a lot about people being intimidated by complex controls and such. Those sort of simple games with little depth are designed for that group. That group is part of the non-gamer market Nintendo is trying to attract. So I consider effort put into those sort of titles as resources used for the non-gamer market. And you can say that Nintendo is focusing on both groups and that non-games don't take up a lot of resources but for the first six months or so of the DS Nintendo didn't release any meaty titles designed for the existing game market. It was all glorified mini-games. The only title with any sort of serious depth was a port of game any serious gamer has played a million times before already.

The DS was the first system Nintendo released with this non-gamer strategy in mind and until game like Advance Wars and Mario Kart came out there were no games released for it I was even slightly interested in. That's why I'm afraid Nintendo's strategy is going to neglect existing gamers. Because from my point of view they already DID with the DS. Therefore they better make sure this strategy works in North America because if they pull the same crap on the Rev they're screwed. They're comprimising their service to one group to try to appeal to a new group that may in fact not care at all.

Those minigames weren't for non-gamers, they were filler because the DS was rushed and Nintendo couldn't get anything better out in time.

Ian, for all your worries you have to admit that as it stands right now the DS is a pretty good platform.

Even if the Rev is identical it's only a matter of time before proper gamer's games come out to shut you up.

"Those minigames weren't for non-gamers, they were filler because the DS was rushed and Nintendo couldn't get anything better out in time."

That's pretty likely. I do think the DS was rushed in North America. If that's the only reason those games were made then it's not as big of an issue. Obviously Nintendo can't rush the Rev launch.

"Even if the Rev is identical it's only a matter of time before proper gamer's games come out to shut you up."

But will the Rev even make it far enough if it is anything like the DS? The DS had an advantage in that it was the follow-up to the GBA. It coasted on the strength of it's predecessor just like the PS2 initially coasted on the PS1's strength. But the Rev has no such safety net. If it fails to impress in the first few months it's finished, period. Nintendo absolutely cannot be thinking "well this worked okay for the DS" when making any decisions regarding the Rev.

"To me the difference is that Nintendogs really wouldn't work at all except in game format. But the Brain Training games look like something that could be replicated on paper with a pencil. Brain Training is something that doesn't have to be made in videogame format in order to work. So I see it as more of an example of a non-game and a better test. Nintendo is taking something that doesn't have to be a videogame and making it a videogame to attract people who don't game to their system. It's like putting crossword puzzles or board games or free flash games on a game system and hoping that the people who already have access to these things will buy a game system to play them."

Printing a picture of Dr. Kawashima's head on a piece of paper and expecting someone to answer multiplication problems with NO means of progress monitoring or other lively feedback is LAME, BORING, A WASTE OF TIME, AND A WASTE OF PAPER.

"OH GEE, I'LL JUST BUST OUT SOME PENCIL AND PAPER ON THE TRAIN HOME AND TEST MYSELF WITH THESE QUIZES I DOWNLOADED OFF THE INTERWEB!"
Never happening. Why bother.

2 million+ Brain Training owners in Japan VS. One Ian Sane.

You fail.

"2 million+ Brain Training owners in Japan VS. One Ian Sane.

You fail."

2 million members of a market that is supposedly shrinking vs. one member of the largest game market in the world that according to annual reports just keeping growing and growing.

Stuff like Brain Training is a response to Nintendo's belief that people are getting bored with games. It's a conclusion they came to looking at the Japanese market. In North America this "crisis" doesn't exist. Gaming has been getting more and more popular. Let's see if Brain Training sells 2 million copies over here. That's why I consider this game the big test.

And quizes could EASILY be replicated on paper. It would be like those books they have for crossword puzzles and word searches. Those exist so obviously some people use them. On paper it wouldn't be exactly the same experience but it would be pretty damn similar. You don't need a screen to answer questions and answer keys are pretty damn common in puzzle books.

So what you're saying, Ian, is if at least 2 people in "the largest game market in the world that according to annual reports just keeping growing and growing" buy Brain Training, THEN you fail?


BTW, I replicated Burnout: Revenge in my car on the way to work today. I'm a Non-Gamer!

If they really added Sudoku to the American version, it's over. That ALONE will get this game out the door...

According to AMN, it's going to be just 19.99!!!!!!

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But the Brain Training games look like something that could be replicated on paper with a pencil. Brain Training is something that doesn't have to be made in videogame format in order to work.

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To me the difference is that Nintendogs really wouldn't work at all except in game format.

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I have the demo on my DS as we speak. I will be buying the full version. End of story.

Every single person I know who has played the demo has decided to buy it. The game sells itself.

What the hell is Soduko?

Seems hype...

It's a fairly boring game that seems to be a gigantic Pokemon style success with fairly boring people! Even the PSP got in on the action.

"To me the difference is that Nintendogs really wouldn't work at all except in game format."

Sup, Nintendogs is back to being a GAME...Walk in circles everyday! As if the comment itself wasn't hilariously awkward already...

What's wrong with a game working just with pen and paper? Didn't like Dungeons and Dragons, Battletech* or Warhammer*?

*= The rules say that you can use bits of paper or anything else that strikes your fancy instead of any official miniatures

Requiem: Wikipedia knows.

Sudoku is just a craze. It's an old number puzzle that's just hit the newspapers lately with a lot of success. I just imagine IM doesn't do so well at it, there's certainly no reason to hate it.

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Nope, I wasn't. All I was saying is that as long as they don't interfere, then go nuts. That seems to be most people's opinion.

There has been a growing drought in the second half of the Cube's life, for whatever reason, which is not comforting. Surely some of the silence means they're working on next-gen. I just have a wait and see attitude about their strategy until we know what they've been working on. I'd be more enthusiastic if Cube hadn't underperformed in general, if Iwata didn't give a 50 minute speech about non-gamers, and then introduce the Revmote in the context of attracting them... so I feel more "show me the money" this time around.

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I think Sudoku is so profitable because unlike crossword puzzles they require almost no thinking (and certainly no dictionary) to make up, Wikipedia discusses various computer algorithms to generate Sudoku puzzles and rate their difficulty.

Sounds overly complicated....

"Dogs really do exist in the real world! =o"

Well yeah. But then you can play football in real life too but that's a pretty weak arguement against Madden.

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Dogs really do exist in the real world! =o"

Well yeah. But then you can play football in real life too but that's a pretty weak arguement against Madden.

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Microsoft people were idiots for bundling Solitare with Windows. I can play that in real life! Non-game = teh d00m

I just completed my very first Soduko puzzle (the sample one on Wikipedia) and I'm really psyched for this game. That was fun.

"Microsoft people were idiots for bundling Solitare with Windows. I can play that in real life!"

Solitare is FREE. If MS tried to sell it as a standalone game things might be different. Or more specifically if Solitare and Minesweeper were key parts in a strategy to sell game systems then things might be different.

That's like the whole point. Non-gamers don't need to buy a Nintendo game system to play the types of games targetted at them. They can get the same types of games on the internet for free or free with their PC or play it on their cell phone or whatever. They already own the equipment and they can get the games for free or for a much lower price then anything Nintendo can offer. The only people who need to buy dedicated gaming systems are people with a serious interest in gaming where Solitare and Bejeweled just doesn't cut it.

People buy Tetris, and they can get that anywhere.

"People buy Tetris, and they can get that anywhere."

That's true. Though back in 1989 it wasn't quite as easy to get a hold of which is probably why it did so well for the Gameboy. Plus back then there were no cell phones for people to casually game on the go. That's a good example though. The only major difference I can think of is that Tetris is popular among serious games while Solitare and Pop Cap games and stuff like that isn't so much.

Does anyone know how well Bookworm sold on the GBA? That's a perfect example of free game being made available for sale.

I'm also curious what Teris Worlds sales for the GBA are like. That's really the first portable Tetris game released in an era where everyone has a cell phone and the first major portable Tetris game that isn't made by Nintendo. I imagine "Nintendo's Tetris" sells far better than regular Tetris games typically do.

Look at cellphones. There's a huge market for crappy games (do you think you can get anything for free for these things?).

A free game made available for sale... Hm... Bejewelled? Counterstrike?

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Originally posted by: Artimus
According to AMN, it's going to be just 19.99!!!!!!

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A free game made available for sale... Hm... Bejewelled? Counterstrike?

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