It must suck balls to be a Nintendo developer.

This looks like a lot of fun but... I couldn't care less if it ever existed.  It just looks like DKC by the numbers.  This looks less like Retro's game and more like Retro doing Rare's game.  Metroid Prime might have been a sequel but by bring Metroid to 3D, Retro was free to do a lot of creative things.  There is no creativity in this, it's just a new Donkey Kong Country game.  And that's cool and all, but that's a waste of Retro's talents.  Why have all these different devs if everyone is just going to make the same stuff EAD would make?  There is no variety.  Rare and Silicon Knights used to provide variety but then Nintendo shoved Star Fox down Rare's throats and Metal Gear Solid down SK's and immediately after that those relationships ended.  It's like Nintendo doesn't want any developer that actually contributes something new.  They just want a bunch of codemonkeys to make more of the same.  They might as well be EA or Activision.  They're the same thing now.

Not knocking the game.  It's probably be great.  But who cares?  Really, who wanted Retro to work on this?

Perhaps Retro wanted to work on this?

Man Mop it up called it.

Look Ian the DK series recently hasn't been that good. Aren't you interested in seeing what Retro can do with it after the outstanding job they did with the Metroid Prime series? I certainly am looking forward to it.:)

Can't we all be happy about Donkey Kong getting a new GOOD game instead of wondering if Nintendo jammed this project down Retro's throat?

And Ian, you DO realize that Rare was pretty much ruining themselves around that point in time right? Also, on SK... Too Human. All that needs be to be said.

You mean getting to work with one of the best publishers in the world, and get tons of times and money to work on the games? Yeah, it sucks as much as having to worry about what to do with your billions of dollars.

Ian, Nintendo didn't force Silicon Knights to do anything. They asked SK to do it because Dyack wanted to work with Kojima. The game sounds really good and I am glad Retro Studios is making it. I don't get all the bitching people are doing.

To me, Retro and EAD Tokyo are the two developers in Nintendo's roster that should be given creative freedom. If they what to do something fresh and crazy then let them go for it.

I suppose the three staff members who left to form Armature Studios was a direct result of saying no to Donkey Kong.

That's pure speculation and you know it.

People should stop acting like Nintendo forced them to do this (even if they do, so what? They are a Nintendo studio and do what they are told, the same way the average person does what there boss tell them too). I think it's more likely that Retro asked to do it (that is what happened with Rare, Nintendo asked them what game they wanted to make and Rare asked if they could make a Donkey Kong game).

What did I call?

I consider a big part of why Retro did such a good job with Metroid Prime is that they did something very unique and original with the Metroid property.  They pretty much invented a new genre to bring the franchise into 3D.  But this is just sidescrolling Donkey Kong.  What can Retro truly do here that isn't just building on what Rare did with it, which realistically was just what Nintendo had been doing with Mario all along?

Metroid Prime was just so awesome and creative that I really wanted to see what Retro could do with complete freedom.  This would naturally provide LESS freedom than Metroid did.

As good as this looks it's a formula that's existed since 1985.  And we already have Warioland and NSMB Wii so it's not like this fills some important genre gap on the Wii.  People complain about FPS games on the Xbox 360.  Okay, can we complain about 2D platformers on the Wii?  And I LOVE that genre and I'll probably love this but I want something new.

The most interesting thing Nintendo revealed at E3 was Kid Icarus because we don't know what 3D Kid Icarus would play like.  It's new and exciting and I want more games like that, where when you first see them you wonder about the possibilities.  That's the type of wonder Metroid Prime created for me.  I know what DKC Returns is going to be like, it's going to be like DKC.

I don't see why a videogame has to do something new in order to be fun and exciting. Simply being a quality title that's well-made should be enough. It's like if people said "I don't want to watch baseball anymore, or footbal, basketball, etc. I want a new sport, otherwise it's boring and a waste of all those athletes' talents."

The response some people would have in regards to this. You mentioned it in the chat Mop it up.

Ian first of all it was Miyamoto that said put Metroid in the first person perspective.

Secondly 2D games are basically non existant with a few exceptions like NSMB Wii, Muramasa, and Wario Land. The difference between Shooters on 360 and 2D platformers on Wii is that the gap between the two is big in terms of number of titles so don't even start comparing the two because it isn't going to work.

Also another thing if Nintendo showed off only new IPs you would gripe that there isn't established games shown. Its always something with you.

Showing off ONLY new IPs would be pretty extreme.  So I dislike extremes?  Doesn't that make sense?  Can I have some balance?  How about we keep the franchises that people really care about like new Zeldas or Mario platformers and replace the less essential stuff like the numerous Mario spin-offs with something new?  It doesn't have to be all or nothing.  Is this like the graphics vs. gameplay BS where people act like the two are incompatible?

Sorry to bring up the sworn enemy but somehow this gen Sony has managed to combine older IPs like God of War, Killzone and Ratchet & Clank with new IPs like Uncharted, Infamous, and LittleBigPlanet.  It's possible to provide both.  Sadly Sony just isn't as talented as Nintendo.  If Nintendo did the same approach it would blow us away.

Not exactly.  The trailer makes the game look a lot like a hybrid of the Country games and Jungle Beat.  Like I said in the other thread, it has the level design of Country, combined with the enemies and stage interactivity of Jungle Beat.  So I'd say this game is going to end up being a lot more unique then you think.

I'm pretty underwhelmed by this game too.  Donkey Kong Country sequel is great and all, but I expected the "What's Retro doing?" hype train to take me somewhere completely different.

Everybody would be really excited about this if it were made by a different developer.

I guess that's the point. It'd be nice to be getting this game and still having the "What's Retro Doing?" hype train rolling.

Given their potential and talent, i was expecting a big grand Zelda-like (in terms of universe) game with detail and intrigue like how they layered Metroid.

I am optimistic about Donkey Kong Country Returns, and also suggest that people have a little more faith in it and Retro Studios. That's my two pennies on the matter.

I wouldn't be so worried about this.  The name "DKC: Returns" sounds to me like this is a once of, a tribute kind of thing.  I don't think that there will be a sequel, so I imagine when this is done and dusted Retro will start working on an entirely new project.

Make no mistake.  I have complete faith that this will be an awesome game.

This is dead on.  Look at the scope of Metroid Prime with the huge world and all the cool details in the scans.  Those games were EPIC in a way that Nintendo seems to never want to be anymore.  You just let your mind wander about what they could do with a different genre or without having to follow any Metroid conventions and it's just amazing to think of what they could do.

Hell it's not even Donkey Kong, I think the choice of genre is underwhelming.  You can only do so much with a 2D platformer.  The scope of such a game is so much smaller than that of Metroid.  You're going from a very open design to a very linear one.  You're going from something that will let you cut loose with backstory and details to something that is very simplistic.

Can you imagine how fans would react is Blizzard announced a kart racer?  Kart racers are cool but people associate Bilzzard with something bigger.  Not all genres are equal.  There are certain ones you expect to just be quick and fun while there are others that take you on an epic journey.  I want an epic journey game.  This looks like a super fun weekend.

In a way it was almost like Retro themselves had become a franchise in our minds.  And this franchise was as well regarded as Zelda and Metroid.  Mario might be the bigger seller but Zelda and Metroid are the "sacred" Nintendo franchises.  It's something about the adventure genre.  It's big, it's intimidating, it's epic.  The fans like those elements of it.  This is why Link's Crossbow Training and Metroid Prime Hunters create controversy.  The fans don't like the idea of their sacred franchise being dumbed down and when you move into something more linear and action-based that's what you're doing.  You're making the game for people who can't think.  Shoot this, go this way.  Don't get lost, don't get stumped.  Zelda and Metroid aren't for everyone but that's fine.  It's supposed to be more for those willing to take the time and effort to tackle something deeper.  It's the appeal of non-linearity.

This is like if you turned Zelda into a level based sidescroller.  It feels wrong, even if turns out to be good.  We associate Retro with a certain scope and sidescrolling games are a step below.  Non-linearity is associated with epic games and we associate Retro with that.

If Retro didn't show up this year, it'd be a "Was Retro NST'd?" train instead.

This game looks fantastic. Everything about it screams nostalgia. I love it!

Today was like the rebirth of SNES and N64!

This 2D platformer can't take as much manpower to make as a Prime game. I bet Retro has another project further out.

Does anybody think this is Retro's way of getting ready for another upcoming title. Perhaps a sequel to Super Metroid? 2D Metroid on a home console.

Don't play with my heart man; that's just cruel.

ummm thats Metroid other M, notice the trend towards 2d as of late, im not saying its a bad thing.

as was said this looks like pretty formulaic Donkey Kong. Its DKC without the pixelation of prerendered sprites, with dynamic lighting. IT'll be great, and its nice to see after years of absence, but not much new here.

Considering what Retro has been capable of, and what they are doing now, it seems a waste that they would be making updated sequels to old games(although given their name that is exactly what they should do)

Now lets extend our "what is Retro doing? hype." to "what is Armature doing? hype", lets just hope that whatever they are doing ends up on the Wii. I hate it that every time something like this happens, the leaving group goes and jumps ship. 

IMO, this game is a colossal waste of Retro Studios' talents.  A 2D Donkey Kong Country game is something I'd hand to the "Wario Land Shake It!" developers, not to developers who had shown considerable talent making graphically-impressive 3D First-Person Adventure titles.

The Wario Land: Shake It developers were too busy making Kirby: Epic Yarn to make this.

Personally, 2D platformers are probably my favorite genre of games, and I'm ecstatic that Nintendo is bringing them back in force. Bring on Yoshi's Island Wii at E3 2011!

Maybe Retro just wanted to do something different instead of making the huge, grand, Zelda-like games all the time.  Eight years of doing that would certainly grind on your whole team after a while.

Konami should get that memo for Hideo.

yeah Retro wanted to do something different? Well the head designers and directors all did...they formed another studio.

And we haven't seen anything yet from that studio, which is being funded by EA.

Man the life boats...?

im sure they'll be a good studio, like i said though....THEY BETTER MAKE GAMES FOR NINTENDO OR ELSE....
i wont buy their product

This game does indeed look incredible, but am I the only one slightly disheartened by the apparent lack of Kremlings? It looks like that flying tiki ship thing has stolen DK's banana  hoard, I hope somewhere K. Rool is controlling it.
I'm also surprised that there doesn't seem to be anything to pick up and throw around. We see Barrel Cannons (that all look like the automatic kind, no button-pushing or timing shown yet) but the only way to fight enemies looks to simply be jumping on them.

It's only been, what, a year?  That's about half as long as a decent game takes to develop when you already have a studio up and running.  Give them time.

That would be perfect and probably leave them with an engine that could also be used for DKCR.

I am a little let down that this is what Retro is doing, but I'd be considerably more let down if it turned out that they were doing Metroid yet again.

You realize the original head designers were removed from Retro as well back when they were working on Metroid Prime.  They had four games they were working on at the time and no real focus.  It was hard to work there but then Nintendo stepped in and got rid of the original head guys and cleaned shop on all games except Metroid because they needed focus.

People who leave Nintendo studios to form another studio always seem to have horrible games.  I won't trust whatever they are working on until reviews are out about the finished game.

This is not necessarily true: Sakurai (Meteos) comes immediately to mind, Free Radical went on to create Timesplitters, Zoonami's made Bonsai Barber (albeit Nintendo-published), etc. 

According to the Iwata Asks involving Retro the decision to make DKCR was made after those people left.

Not to mention that Nintendo didn't force Retro to make it, they asked Retro if they were interested in making it. The current president of Retro said he wanted to do it since he worked on the DKC games for SNES (which is also why Retro was recommended to Miyamoto for it). Speaking of Armature Studios, I think the last time we heard from them was when they were formed several years ago.

Studios like that where they form because of some bizarre personal conflict or are 'heralded' members of a respected team tend to fizzle out quickly I've noticed. Zoonami has been MIA outside of small oddities. There are a few who make it but I wonder if because these studios are born of disagreement they continue to struggle with that after reforming.

Platinum is kind of one. They have made several games, but none of them (outside of Bayonetta) have been a million seller. Though Bayonetta only sold over a million combined on both HD systems.

There will be no crocodiles in the game which I believe instantly means no Kremlings. As for the barrels I played the game quite a bit at E3 and there are moving barrels that you have to sit in and time to shoot. Not just auto blasters. One can also pick up the barrels lying around carry them around until it is ready for the throwing. You can bet steel barrels will make a return as well as other objects to pick up and toss at baddies.

Ironically, just as Cater brought up the barrel blasters I just played through and lost a life in Tree Top Town in DKC1 on VC. Guess my DKC2 sugar high made my DKC1 skills a tiny bit rusty (which is kind of weird considering they both share the same engine excluding mild differences).

Jeff Spangenberg isn't running Armature
its game director Mark Pacini, art director Todd Keller, and principal technology engineer Jack Mathews. So the lead designer, tool designer, and artist of Metroid prime 2 and 3, and to some extant 1

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2009/12/the-man-who-never-wanted-to-make-the-citizen-kane-of-games/#more-371797

i'd imagine it would be depressing for those 3 to work at Retro though, considering the head programmer died of Pancreatic cancer. They all left 4 months later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Haigh-Hutchinson

Wow, Mr. Haigh-Hutchinson made a good number of my favorite childhood games. He will be dearly missed.