WiiU

The Triumphant Return of Cel-da

by Andrew Brown - January 24, 2013, 6:39 am PST
Total comments: 37

Wind Waker again? Yes please. 

Much of the murmuring about last night's Nintendo Direct that I've borne witness to seems to have completely overlooked the information about the unique plans for Nintendo's next big Zelda game, in favour of gushing over the HD remake of Wind Waker. I'm thrilled with both announcements and can't wait to see more details emerge come E3, but when in Rome (or in this case, Hyrule)... ahem;

WIND WAKER IN HD. The news came completely out of nowhere and it's not something I'd considered myself wanting or even thinking about - hell, I was looking forward to getting the original version on the Virtual Console when GameCube games eventually release, but hey - I'll gladly take this instead. One more justification to buy the same game again without discarding my original copy!

The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker is tied for my favourite Zelda game in the whole franchise (for those curious, tied with Majora's Mask and Skyward Sword equally).
Absolutely everything about the game just fit together in such a melodious way, it's as close to playing perfection as I'd ever come before, with few titles that have since lived up to the impression it left.

Gorgeous.

I honestly can't understand the straggling few who still whinge and complain about the game's art style after sitting down and playing the game, considering it had so much more detail, emotion and life than any of the Zelda games before it.

But I'm not gonna go into further detail on the topic, if you're reading this you're probably already a fan of the original game and will agree that it was a truly inspiring experience. You guys rock. But, how would Nintendo improve upon perfection? Iwata stated that they want to improve the overall experience of the game.
No, not by removing/reducing the sailing. That was perfect too, go stand in the corner.

I'm torn with the idea of potentially adding motion controls, as that would then require Nintendo to create new contextual scenarios in which slashing direction and such would factor into the gameplay. At the same time, Skyward Sword controlled like such a dream that it would be a lot of fun to see how the Great Sea world would evolve in such situations.

And what of the Tingle Tuner? For those who never tried it out with their GBA, the device allowed you to plot journeys on a sea chart while sailing, set waypoints in dungeons and purchase items and attack enemies via radio support. It even included a series of mini-quests in the first few dungeons and towns that would unlock a set of treasure chests containing golden Tingle statues that were sent to his island, and trigger the appearance of Tingle's surly brother Knuckle, the only way to properly complete the figurine gallery side-quest. The addition of the GamePad could make this a built-in feature without the need for additional hardware or cables.

I wish I lived on Windfall Island.

If there was one major request I'd like to make for this new updated version of the game though, it would be to include the two missing dungeons that were infamously scrapped during development of the original. Either way, I'm sold from the get-go and the release can't come soon enough.

I just wonder what happened to all that talk of a Majora's Mask remake or potential Link to the Past sequel for 3DS... I hope you haven't forgotten, Nintendo!

Talkback

FjurbanskiJanuary 24, 2013

"considering it had so much more detail, emotion and life than any of the Zelda games before it."

And after it.

I agree. There's no need to decrease the sailing. All they really should do as far as structure and pacing, I think, is add the last two dungeons and incorporate the collection of the triforce pieces into those dungeons. Perhaps add them into other parts of the game as well.

Pixelated PixiesJanuary 24, 2013

I love Wind Waker but it certainly not perfect.

I really hope Iwata's comments about 'tuning' the gameplay is a sly reference to the Triforce piece hunt at the end of the game, which was monotonous as all hell.

I'd also really like to see them restore the two dungeons that were planned but ultimately dropped from the game.

Ian SaneJanuary 24, 2013

Quote:

I honestly can't understand the straggling few who still whinge and complain about the game's art style after sitting down and playing the game, considering it had so much more detail, emotion and life than any of the Zelda games before it


I honestly don't get the praise the game gets from some people.  I think it's a good game but I don't find it to be exceptional in any way in comparison to the rest of the Zelda series.  I find it at best to be a perfectly competent Zelda game.  It's pretty much Ocarina of Time with sailing and cartoon graphics.

I also don't get this desire people have where they really like some game and can't wait to BUY IT AGAIN when they already own it.  If you sold your copy or something, I get it.  If you don't own the game why not buy this version?  But if you already have access to it and can play it at any time?  You can already even play your Cube copy on your Wii so it's isn't like it requires access to archaic 20 year old hardware.

It's not just games but albums and movies and such get special editions and people who already have it trip over themselves to buy it again.  Nintendo, and all these other videogame companies, want you to buy it again because the profit margin for them on something like that is huge.  They effectively don't have to create a new product and you give them money.  It's like charity.  And the problem is that this behaviour is repeatedly rewarded so videogame companies know that they can pad release schedules with re-releases instead of new games.  If you didn't buy games you already own, companies like Nintendo would be forced to release more NEW games because they couldn't rely on cash-ins like this.

There is nothing aside from a whole game's worth of new dungeons that would ever make me consider buying this, simply because I already own Wind Waker.

Evan_BJanuary 24, 2013

Th visuals look absolutely awful. They're destroying the cel-shaded art style the original had with this new lighting engine.

Very disappointing.

FjurbanskiJanuary 24, 2013

Quote from: Ian

I also don't get this desire people have where they really like some game and can't wait to BUY IT AGAIN when they already own it.  If you sold your copy or something, I get it.  If you don't own the game why not buy this version?  But if you already have access to it and can play it at any time?  You can already even play your Cube copy on your Wii so it's isn't like it requires access to archaic 20 year old hardware.

It's not just games but albums and movies and such get special editions and people who already have it trip over themselves to buy it again.

Well, unlike movies and albums, we'll more than likely be able to see a more noticeable quality increase with this game. Not only will the game be in HD, but they already said they would be updating the graphics, adding changes to the gameplay, off TV play, and who knows what else. So yeah, I already own WW, but it's safe to assume that this WW won't be exactly the same as the version I own and will definitely be worth my money (especially seeing as how I bought WW used for $15 bucks all those years ago. Nintendo didn't get my money for it anyway. lol)

Bman87301January 24, 2013

It's frightening when I find myself actually agreeing with Ian Sane, but I'm not excited for this in the least either. To me, Wind Waker has always stood out as the biggest misstep for the franchise. I always find it baffling how some people keep consistently claiming they can't understand how other people who've sat down with it can't get over the style. I feel precisely the opposite, I was actually a defender of the style choice from the time the game was first revealed. I wasn't thrilled that it was using a prepubescent Link, but was confident that story and gameplay would balance it out-- To my utter disappointment, it didn't. I could write an entire book on what all I didn't like about it (none of which had anything to do with the cel-shading), but needless to say, there was a lot. Was it bad game on its own merits? No. But as a mainstream installment of the Zelda franchise, it most definitely was. And I know I can't be alone on that opinion. A lot of people try to claim that the reason it didn't sell well was because people didn't give it a chance because of the cel-shading-- I don't buy that for a second. It was the GAME ITSELF that disappointed me, and I know others had to feel the same way.

TJ SpykeJanuary 24, 2013

Um, no one ever said Wind Waker didn't sell well. In fact, it sold 4.6 million copies (and it has a 96% average on Metacritic). That means haters of the game are in the extremely small minority. It's one of the best Zelda games. The only flaw is that the Triforce Hunt can be a little tedious if you didn't bother getting any of the maps before it.

I like WW, but I also agree it is not something truly exceptional. When I first finished the game, I felt that parts were rushed. The visuals are one of the driving reasons why people hold this game up. Nintendo need to go back and add the extra areas into the game, then the game will finally be complete. I still find it strange how you get the third spiritual stone thing.

They also already had tweaked the Triforce hunt when the game originally released outside of Japan. I never found it annoying because I had most of them already anyway. It will be interesting to see what further changes they make.

house3136January 24, 2013

As someone who doesn’t love Nintendo enough to constantly put down every decision they make, I must say I’m enthusiastic about this title. I never played the original Wind Waker, (sorry, my life got in the way) and I’m looking forward to purchasing this asap. This game is most likely being remade by an outside studio, like Grezzo did with OoT3D, instead of EAD resources; this is the type of  developer expansion I don’t think will hurt Nintendo. I don’t see what the problem is; Nintendo is revitalizing a game that many, like me, haven’t had the opportunity to play, let alone with a complete makeover. Used GameCube copies don’t sell for $30 and up because they’re common.

When Wind Waker came out, I wasn't totally sold on it. However, time has been outrageously kind to it. I replayed it like two years ago and adored it from start to finish. I think it is a true work of video game art, warts and all.

I'm excited to see some potential tweaking and graphical upgrades, because I adore this game. I can't wait.

Quote from: Evan_B

Th visuals look absolutely awful. They're destroying the cel-shaded art style the original had with this new lighting engine.

Very disappointing.

The screens in the pictures we've seen so far are most definitely still cel-shaded though - it might look less like flat colours but it still certainly looks like a cartoon. Perhaps just more like a modern CG cartoon than a 2D animation on a 3D plane. I'm interested to see where it's going - I'll admit the haze over the ocean shot is a little worrying, I hope they don't so something silly like add motion blur to all the sailing.

Luigi DudeJanuary 24, 2013

Considering Aonuma and Miyamoto apologized for the Triforce quest at the end of the game and said two dungeons were cut years ago, I'd say the remake will be worth it because Wind Wakers flaws will finally be fixed.  I also imagine they'll fix the sailing were it isn't as tedious anymore.

My guess is they'll use the game pad to allow people to change wind directions at any moment now which will fix things greatly.  Or they'll just make the boat control like the boat in Skyward Swords sand ocean were you have full control now and don't have to worry about any wind bullshit.

So I'd think having potential new dungeons and fixed boat mechanics will easily make this remake worth it.

Mop it upJanuary 24, 2013

I liked the art style but felt it was too plain in places, and the screens seem to look even more plain than before. I'd have preferred it if they had taken it in a direction closer to the concept art, that made it look more like a drawing instead of less.

WindyManSteven Rodriguez, Staff AlumnusJanuary 25, 2013

Wind Waker was a dream game for me. (Guess why! I bet you can't.) It was one of the very, very few games where I was literally overcome with awe. Like, awesome in the actual sense of the word, not the bastardized sense that everyone on the Internet overuses.


That feeling sticks with you a while.

WINDYMAN LIVES

AdrockJanuary 25, 2013

Quote from: Luigi

Or they'll just make the boat control like the boat in Skyward Swords sand ocean were you have full control now and don't have to worry about any wind bullshit.

Do you really think they're going to take the wind aspect out of the game?

I haven't played Wind Waker since it came out, but I recall having to get a sail for King of the Red Lions. The boat doesn't have a motor so unless they change the game entirely, I think controlling the wind is one aspect that's staying mostly the same. I can Nintendo making it so you didn't have to play the song every time you had to change wind directions. For example, you'd play it every time you left an island just to summon (?) the wind, but you could use the GamePad after that to control the wind. Then again, off-TV play is confirmed so I don't know how they'd handle that without the 2nd screen.

Quote from: Mop

I liked the art style but felt it was too plain in places, and the screens seem to look even more plain than before. I'd have preferred it if they had taken it in a direction closer to the concept art, that made it look more like a drawing instead of less.

Hey, yeah! Put a paper grain filter over the screen and a scratchy poly-outline effect to the character models, and it would look just like the art in the manuals. They could still use the upgraded lighting and cel-shading together with these... It could be beautiful, but at the same time I've seen some bad polygon outline glitching. It's a fine line before it all goes south, they'd need to be very careful.

ShayminJanuary 25, 2013

Quote from: Adrock

Do you really think they're going to take the wind aspect out of the game?

Please?

If they did that would they just call it "The Legend of Zelda: The Waker"?

TJ SpykeJanuary 25, 2013

The wind was a key part of the game (and a very good part), I don't know if it would be possible to take the wind part out of the game since it plays a vital part.

It'd be like taking the ocarina out of OoT. You could make the game work without it if you really wanted to, but it'd be a huge change.

StogiJanuary 25, 2013

So....stupid...

I like the style of Wind Waker a lot, but man...Skyward Sword is just prettier in every way. The blur into a Monet style impressionism is just...well...perfect.

EasyCureJanuary 25, 2013

Quote from: TJ

Um, no one ever said Wind Waker didn't sell well. In fact, it sold 4.6 million copies (and it has a 96% average on Metacritic). That means haters of the game are in the extremely small minority. It's one of the best Zelda games. The only flaw is that the Triforce Hunt can be a little tedious if you didn't bother getting any of the maps before it.

this is what bugs me about the people who complain. I feel like Zelda is about exploration and adventure, so I try to do anything and everything before the end of the game.. so I already had a lot of those maps! That shit wasn't tedious at all because I wasn't rushing to beat the game :D

Quote from: Stogi

So....stupid...

I like the style of Wind Waker a lot, but man...Skyward Sword is just prettier in every way. The blur into a Monet style impressionism is just...well...perfect.

While I agree, I don't think the character designs would look good in SS's style.

To Ian: I might not change your mind about Wind Waker, but I still want to share with you the reasons why I get it..

Besides SS, Wind Waker's style made the game more of an experience than a game. Personally I think  it's a tad weaker in overall gameplay than say, OoT, but as an overall experience - the memorable stuff you walk away with only after it comes to an end.. Wind Waker has so many other Zelda's beat.. at least out of the 3D titles (including the DS titles). This might sound odd but I put the 2D games in a different category because your imagination fills in a lot of the gaps on those older games, making those games much more unique to individual players than the overall presentation Nintendo offers you in the 3D titles..

When I think of Wind Waker, I remember the feeling I got watching the intro, how the music perfectly set the mood telling me the ancient legend. I remember suddenly waking up in a daze, not expecting to be part of this giant epic unfolding before my my sleepy eyes. I remember going into dark caves with Links eyes being the only visible thing in the room  until a flaming keese startles me. I remember insert spoilers here and then that amaaaazing finally, and feeling "wow, that truly was a journey". It was the first time I felt like I was really there.

Even with how amazing OoT was and still is.. it still felt like a video game. In OoT I remember C buttons and Z-targeting, ya know? The art-style for WW is what made the game come alive. Link really was incredibly expressive, as was Tetra. Their personalities is what made the world come alive and make the overall experience feel like more than a game, and at least to me personally is something sorely missed from the pre-Nintendo 64 era. ALttP is still a better experience in my mind, over all zelda titles, because as a kid the game made my imagination soar to some crazy heights that wouldn't be captured in a video game because it played out like a movie in my mind.

Pixelated PixiesJanuary 25, 2013

Quote from: EasyCure

Quote from: TJ

Um, no one ever said Wind Waker didn't sell well. In fact, it sold 4.6 million copies (and it has a 96% average on Metacritic). That means haters of the game are in the extremely small minority. It's one of the best Zelda games. The only flaw is that the Triforce Hunt can be a little tedious if you didn't bother getting any of the maps before it.

this is what bugs me about the people who complain. I feel like Zelda is about exploration and adventure, so I try to do anything and everything before the end of the game.. so I already had a lot of those maps! That **** wasn't tedious at all because I wasn't rushing to beat the game :D


I'm not a hater. Wind Waker is one of my favourite Zelda games, but the Triforce hunt was complete bull****. Just as the game is ramping up to it's epic finale it forced me to halt everything, go collect a bunch of rupees, go to Tingle to have my maps translated, realise that I don't have all the maps, go find all the maps I missed, gather more rupees, get those ones translated, and then go to each individual point on the map in order to drag up the chest and retrieve the shard...not fun.

It's great that you already had the maps, but given that so many people found themselves in the same position as myself, you have to admit that the game did a really poor job of communicating what the Triforce Shard maps were or why the player needed to collect them. During my first play through of the game I did find, what I thought was, a decent amount of shard maps, but I didn't know whether or not these maps and the shards were something that I was supposed to be actively pursuing throughout the game. It seemed to me to be an inconsequential sidequest, a collectible hunt, there for people who enjoy finding every little item (similar to the medallion pieces you find in Minish Cap). I never thought for a moment that such a tedious quest would be required to finish the game.

I've played through Wind Waker about 3 or 4 times now, but I still really hate the Triforce hunt. It's Zelda padding at it's worst.

chickenspyJanuary 25, 2013

Another aspect that made that game so great was the introduction of reaction attacks. They improved on it in TP, but it was such a groundbreaking thing to the zelda combat system to me.

I'll add in that Wind Waker's camera system is the single best implementation of a 3D camera I've seen in a Nintendo game. It had the standard "center behind link" and "target enemies" that Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask did, but then the GameCube's C-stick could instantly swivel the view around, change the view's elevation or zoom in or out effortlessly and smoothly at any time you wanted. It was so fluid that the camera controls were second nature by the time you left Outset Island on the pirate ship. I loved zooming the camera right down behind link's back and sailing from an over-the-shoulder perspective from sea level, it made each journey that little bit more immersive and showed just how huge and open the world was.

I've also noticed that Nintendo have neglected to show a sword in any of these new HD screens - is this cleverly concealing the addition (or exclusion) of motion controls? If Link were to suddenly have the sword in his right hand, or even have it strapped to his back and angled towards his right side, it would almost positively confirm that the controls are being redone from scratch to incorporate the Wii Remote.

Ian SaneJanuary 25, 2013

EasyCure, I get what you're saying about the effect the art style could have on you.  I never really liked the art style so any charm it carried was lost on me.  Thus the gameplay was more what made the game work for me.  In terms of gameplay, it's hard to compare to the impact of playing OoT when it was a current game; there just wasn't anything more ambitous in videogames at the time.  Since WW's gameplay is really just a refinement of OoT, it lacks the same impact.  Of course OoT is totally a "you had to be there" game.  For a newcomer I would suggest WW over OoT (though I think the Cube version TP would be the ideal introduction to the series; it's such a polished example of the typical Zelda experience that it seems generic to longtime fans).  Another problem I have with WW is that a big part of the appeal of Zelda is exploration.  In theory sailing would be good for that but the Waterworld setting is just too empty.  There are all these little areas but they don't connect or flow into each other.  I think the ocean setting would work better on the Wii U because the hardware boost would allow for a bigger area and larger land masses.

My beef with the Triforce hunt is really having to pay Tingle to get the maps read.  Finding the map shards was actually kind of fun but having to effectively grind for cash SUCKED.  Nintendo did that with both WW and both Metroid Prime games.  It was like some weird Cube era Nintendo trademark to put some dumb fetch quest padding near the end of their games.

FjurbanskiJanuary 25, 2013

Quote:

I've also noticed that Nintendo have neglected to show a sword in any of these new HD screens - is this cleverly concealing the addition (or exclusion) of motion controls? If Link were to suddenly have the sword in his right hand, or even have it strapped to his back and angled towards his right side, it would almost positively confirm that the controls are being redone from scratch to incorporate the Wii Remote.

Obviously I don't know the answer to that, but I would bet that motion controls are not happening for this game. They said that Off TV Play would be supported, and that should mean no motion plus will be used for this game. Unless of course they expect me to prop up the gamepad and use motion plus at the same time, therefore sitting too far away to see the action.

Quote:

My beef with the Triforce hunt is really having to pay Tingle to get the maps read.  Finding the map shards was actually kind of fun but having to effectively grind for cash SUCKED.  Nintendo did that with both WW and both Metroid Prime games.  It was like some weird Cube era Nintendo trademark to put some dumb fetch quest padding near the end of their games.

Definitely. I don't think the Triforce hunt needs to be taken out completely. It fit in pretty well with the story, and it did give you good feelings of exploration and actually being a pirate/sailor. Sailing the seas and finding treasure is fun. Besides, if they took it out completely we'd miss out on some cool things like the ghost ship. It just needs some pacing adjustments. Don't force us to go back to tingle every time and pay money. Maybe let us use the Tingle Tuner to remotely contact him. If they add in those two extra dungeons they could incorporate a few Triforce pieces into the dungeons. Maybe make our boat go a little faster. So just make some adjustment and it'll be more fun.

CericJanuary 25, 2013

If this game replaces the WW combat that I really enjoyed I will personally hunt EasyCure down carrying my 2nd Amendment.  Then have him finish the Tri-Force hunt on my Cube version.


Triforce hunt needs tweaked.  End of Changes.

StogiJanuary 25, 2013

I wonder if this game will be 1080p.

CericJanuary 25, 2013

Quote from: Stogi

I wonder if this game will be 1080p.

3D

That would be awesome weird.

AdrockJanuary 25, 2013

Quote from: Fjurbanski

They said that Off TV Play would be supported, and that should mean no motion plus will be used for this game. Unless of course they expect me to prop up the gamepad and use motion plus at the same time, therefore sitting too far away to see the action.

Not necessarily. Motion controls could be a TV-only option. I'd rather it be there than not.

StogiJanuary 25, 2013

But there's absolutely NO NEED for motion controls.

Though, it might make the slinghshot easier. And flying the birds easier. And possible changing the wind more fun. Still...

No need.

CericJanuary 25, 2013

Quote from: Adrock

Quote from: Fjurbanski

They said that Off TV Play would be supported, and that should mean no motion plus will be used for this game. Unless of course they expect me to prop up the gamepad and use motion plus at the same time, therefore sitting too far away to see the action.

Not necessarily. Motion controls could be a TV-only option. I'd rather it be there than not.

Quote from: Ceric

If this game replaces the WW combat that I really enjoyed I will personally hunt EasyCure and Adrock down carrying my 2nd Amendment.  Then have him finish the Tri-Force hunt on my Cube version.


Triforce hunt needs tweaked.  End of Changes.

AdrockJanuary 25, 2013

You can still have your precious GamePad controls. I'd like the option of Wii version Twilight Princess controls if only for aiming. Otherwise, sword swinging is just the A button mapped to waggle.

Quote from: Stogi

But there's absolutely NO NEED for motion controls.

Though, it might make the slinghshot easier. And flying the birds easier. And possible changing the wind more fun. Still...

No need.

There's no need for a Wind Waker remake considering the original holds up and it could easily be download only as is on the eshop, but it's happening anyway. Just because something isn't necessary doesn't mean people don't still want it. Twilight Princess was better on the Wii than GameCube. I'd rather have those controls as an option. Now, I wouldn't want Skyward Sword controls because Nintendo would have to revamp the entire battle system and it wouldn't even be the same game.

FjurbanskiJanuary 25, 2013

Quote from: Adrock

Not necessarily. Motion controls could be a TV-only option. I'd rather it be there than not.

They could do that, yes. But I don't see them going that route. On the TV you play with motion plus, then you turn off the TV and pick up the gamepad and play the exact same game with a completely different control scheme? It just seems like something that, although possible, would be counterintuitive and they wouldn't bother with.


But at the same time, if the options are there and people can do just whatever they want (Motion/No motion, on Gamepad/off Gamepad), then bring it on.


EDIT: Although one thing that I definitely want them to do is to give me the option to use the gamepad's motion to fine tune my aiming, like in OoT 3D. The aiming in Zelda was never accurate until TP, and Gamepad aiming works well and quickly. So give me that option and I'll be happy.

Ian SaneJanuary 25, 2013

I don't like motion control at all but I see no problem in offering TP style wiggle waggle as an option for those that want it.  See, Nintendo, that's how options work.  Providing an option I would never ever want has no negative impact on me whatsoever, so I'm in favour of it.  What does it matter to you how we play our games?  Start with the control scheme you want and then let us map it however we want and provide whatever options are feasible.

I tend to forget that most people did not play TP with the conventional Cube controls like I did.  At one point someone pointed out the camera control in WW I was just thinking "well TP's camera was great as well" and then I realize "oh yeah..."

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