3DSWiiU

Sakurai Says Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS Will Change Direction

by Patrick Barnett - April 25, 2012, 7:36 pm PDT
Total comments: 44 Source: http://wii.ign.com/articles/122/1223770p1.html, (IGN)

It looks like connectivity will be key to these games.

The key to Smash Bros. on the Wii U and 3DS will be dual support, Masahiro Sakurai told IGN in an interview.

Sakurai said "There is a certain dead end we come to if we just expand the volume of the game. I intend to change direction a little as we go. The key to that's going to be its dual support for 3DS/Wii U. I'm really just getting started on this so it's going to take time, but I'll come up with something that uses that link as the game's central axis, so I hope you're looking forward to it."

The simple addition of new characters does not appear like it will cut it for Sakurai this time around. He plans on focusing on connectivity between the 3DS and Wii U throughout development.

Super Smash Bros. was originally announced last year at E3 for both the Wii U and 3DS. However, due to his work on Kid Icarus: Uprising, Sakurai was unable to devote time to Smash Bros. development. With Kid Icarus's recent release, it appears Smash Bros. is now getting his full attention.

Talkback

AVApril 26, 2012

I'm 100% fine with this.


Fighters tend to stay stagnant and do minor things to keep the fans happy, so I'm glad they are not coasting on previous success

RachtApril 26, 2012

I'm not.


I'm not one of them, but what about people who have no want or desire to own a 3DS or get involved in handheld gaming? Will they not get to experience the full implications of the next Smash because of this?


Sounds a little arrogant, if you ask me.

OblivionApril 26, 2012

Fan Wank? You can't please everyone.

AdrockApril 26, 2012

I'm curious how they're going to interact with each other.

I'm also curious what Sakurai means by "change direction." I'd like to see the gameplay evolve well beyond the minor changes that Brawl introduced. He also mentioned the issue of simply increasing volume not cutting it. I agree. That should be one aspect of the new games but certainly not the extent of it.

Luigi DudeApril 26, 2012

This isn't really new though since Sakurai said the same thing at last years E3.  He's just repeating what he already said.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/117/1174416p1.html

Quote:

Sakurai has only started to assemble his thoughts on the next Smash. Bros titles. According to the translation, he doesn't feel a simple extension of Melee and Brawl will work. In other words, Sakurai doesn't want to simply expand stages and character counts, or enhance the graphics and call it a day. That was one of the reasons he didn't simply walk away from a 3DS-based Smash Bros. and work with Wii U.

Currently Sakurai's thought process is focused on the notion that a portable experience is a more personal one. Only one player is likely to be using a portable system, and it might be interesting to allow that player to customize Smash Bros. fighters on the 3DS, which could then be brought over to the larger world of a home console Smash Bros. Sakurai's thinking is that an element of communication between the two versions will make both better.

From Sakurai's comments at E3 and now, as well as how Kid Icarus turned out I think it's pretty obvious character customization is going to be a big part of the next Smash Bros.  The 3DS version will be a bigger single player experience filled with things to collect to that can be used to customize your characters and then you can send your customized characters to the Wii U version which will be the bigger multiplayer game.

It sounds like it'll be like Pokemon Stadium were the handheld is the Adventure game and the console is the Multiplayer game.

TJ SpykeApril 26, 2012

I am confident in his abilities. Personally, I loved Brawl, but I do agree that it might get stale if they just took the same game and added more characters. Several fighting game series do little to change and just get stale.

house3136April 26, 2012

Considering Nintendo is releasing New Super Mario Bros. 2 on 3DS, and a new side-scroller on Wii U sometime this fall, I wonder if they’ll have some sort of connectivity?

Sakurai could probably get this Smash Bros. combo out for holiday 2014; but Sora is going to have to expand to keep up with Nintendo’s schedule. I’m thinking Nintendo may help them out, as it seems they have been placing a lot more trust and emphasis on 2nd-party developers. Although, Luigi’s Mansion 2 and Paper Mario haven’t gotten release dates yet, I feel Nintendo has reserved those for an official reveal at E3, again.

Spak-SpangApril 26, 2012

I am not happy about this. 


I personal have respect for his ability to craft games...but I also know he has made some mistakes...and one of those mistakes was the single player story mode of Brawl...now he is going to change the game more.


I hope it is for the better...but I am not confident that connectivity is the way to go.  The reason being is that the Wii U version doesn't need connectivity with the 3DS to play...because the WiiU has a touch screen. 


I think the same is true with the 3DS version...you don't need or shouldn't need a Wii U version to play.  I feel like they are trying to justify the existence of both games, but honestly you don't need to justify it.  It is ok to say, hey this game is the portable version of your favorite game series...and this console one is the next big console version.  Look the portable one does this and has 3D...and the console version has these things available.


We will have to see what happens I guess.  However, I do agree more characters is not the answer.  I actually think less characters or the same number of characters with 0 clones is the way to go.  Sure new characters are great...and I want them but I want them if they play different and add new strategy and design to the game.  I don't just want another character that is a heavy Mario or a light weight Pikachu. 


So to me, I really want to see what new characters can be thought up that adds to the game design. 


I really don't think he's saying it will be necessary to own both, just that if you do there will be some cool bonus features. As one of the few people who really loved the idea of connectivity between the GameCube and GBA and was really upset about the near-total lack of it between the much more universally owned and much more convenient to connect Wii and DS, I'm excited for this, and hope there will be more games that do it.

AdrockApril 26, 2012

Quote from: Spak-Spang

I think the same is true with the 3DS version...you don't need or shouldn't need a Wii U version to play.  I feel like they are trying to justify the existence of both games, but honestly you don't need to justify it.  It is ok to say, hey this game is the portable version of your favorite game series...and this console one is the next big console version.  Look the portable one does this and has 3D...and the console version has these things available.

I don't see it that way at all. I doubt you need both versions as if there's some kind of requirement here. I certainly don't know what Sakurai is planning. However, it sounds like he wants the games to work in tandem, as complements to each other rather than being completely separate entities, like how there's a console Mario Kart and a portable Mario Kart though they will most likely function independently should users so choose. That said, I don't see the harm in the Smash Bros. Wii U and Smash Bros 3DS interacting with each other. If Sakurai finds a way to make connectivity unique and fun and if both game ultimately benefit from it, I'm all for it.

OblivionApril 26, 2012

Spak, who cares if he made the Subspace Emissary? You didn't have to play it. Wanted to unlock the characters? Do it the old fashioned way. Are you honestly that affected by having a apparently bad story mode? The story mode didn't affect Brawl in any negative way.

Sakurai got Kazushige Nojima to do the story in Brawl, but he did most of the writing work in Uprising himself. I'd say that game by far redeems his potential for a good story mode from both a content and design perspective.

AdrockApril 26, 2012

Quote from: Oblivion

The story mode didn't affect Brawl in any negative way.

Depends on how you look at it. Having a giant cock spray painted on the side of a building doesn't affect the integrity of the structure but it's most likely negatively affecting the business that's housed within the building. The Subspace Emissary, to put it lightly, wasn't that great. It's a black mark on an otherwise solid title.

Top notch metaphor, Adrock.

red14April 26, 2012

I guess it's safe to say that the Wii U will not support GameCube controllers. One of my friends hates using the Wii remote to brawl, and I already sold Brawl over a year ago. I know I'll be getting Smash Bros. on Wii U (and maybe 3ds), but I'm starting to think I'll have to get Brawl back just for that reason.

OblivionApril 26, 2012

Quote from: Adrock

Quote from: Oblivion

The story mode didn't affect Brawl in any negative way.

Depends on how you look at it. Having a giant cock spray painted on the side of a building doesn't affect the integrity of the structure but it's most likely negatively affecting the business that's housed within the building. The Subspace Emissary, to put it lightly, wasn't that great. It's a black mark on an otherwise solid title.

I agree with Insano. Great metaphor, one that actually persuaded me.

Spak-SpangApril 26, 2012

I had nothing wrong with the story...I had everything wrong to do with BAD game play in story mode...and worse HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE character design for enemies, that made me hate playing through the game.  When they had interesting traditional characters I was happy. 




And, I am not saying that you will be required to have both...but he said he wanted to make connectivity a focus on the two games.  This to me screams that there will be much greater value and incentive to own both.  Like modes or abilities or options not available unless you have the other. 


Personally, I don't like that...I think it is unfair and silly to think that somebody should own a separate system and game to get the full features on another game. 


Now, if Sakurai is NOT going that route...and is doing something more subtle then I am cool with that.  Options like faster character unlocks through Street Pass with the 3DS and Wii U.  Characters being unlocked in one becoming available in the other as an incentive is cool too.  Just as long as all content available for the game is unlockable by itself it is fine with me.


Spak-SpangApril 26, 2012

Quote from: Oblivion

Spak, who cares if he made the Subspace Emissary? You didn't have to play it. Wanted to unlock the characters? Do it the old fashioned way. Are you honestly that affected by having a apparently bad story mode? The story mode didn't affect Brawl in any negative way.

Yes, because in Melee the story mode was my FAVORITE part of the game.  It was what I played the most of when my friends weren't around...and it was really great.  I remember going through the Adventure mode of Melee once a night with different characters until I beat it with all of them.  I really enjoyed adventure mode...but Subspace was horrible.  I felt like the design was just wrong on so many levels.

OblivionApril 26, 2012

Bad enemy design? They were all based off of pre-existing characters, you know.

Spak-SpangApril 26, 2012

http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/gamemode/modea/modea06.html

I recognize R.O.B...from a game.  I don't recognize any of those other characters...but they all suck in design.

That's been Sakurai's biggest weakness. His common enemy design isn't so hot. It wasn't very good in Uprising either, despite the main character designs being amazing.

Luigi DudeApril 26, 2012

I still don't see why people act like because of the way the Subspace Emissary turned out, that means a story mode in another Smash Bros will turn out the same way.  Good designers like Sakurai learn from their previous mistakes.  It's pretty obvious Sakurai knows what went wrong with the Subspace Emissary and will fix its biggest problems for the next game.


Plus Kid Icarus: Uprising shows Sakurai still knows how to make a great single player adventure game.  Back when Sakurai started making Brawl in 2005 the last single player adventure type game he made was Kirby Super Star back in 1996.  After that he did the original Smash Bros, then Melee, then Kirby Air Ride, and then Meteos right before Brawl so it's no suprise he was rusty on a 10 hour adventure mode since he hadn't made one in 10 years.  Well with the next Smash Bros he's starting it right after making Kid Icarus: Uprising which is considered great by most people.


So instead of being rusty like when making Brawl, he's coming off of a hot streak with Kid Icarus.  So yeah I'm expecting the story mode to be much better this time and something that's actually great on its own.

FZeroBoyoApril 26, 2012

After Kid Icarus: Uprising, I expect single-player elements in both Smash Bros. games to have a KI:U feel. Crazy dialog and meta jokes? Maybe not, but perhaps common enemy designs, items, etc.

famicomplicatedJames Charlton, Staff AlumnusApril 26, 2012

I'd suspect this means a rounded "action RPG / platformer" type game on the 3DS, which lets you exchange upgrades and collectables (stickers/coins etc) with the Wii U version.


I just hope they are different enough from one another to warrant 2 purchases.


I can see the 3DS one coming out 6 months to a year before the Wii U one, letting players develop their skills and upgrades well in advance of the HD version, Sora might even collect feedback from players and apply that to the console version.


Has this kind of thing ever been attempted before on such a huge scale? My mind boggles at how they can do this successfully and within 2/3 years.
4/5 could be too long. (yet plausible!)

syrindigoApril 26, 2012

WHY WOULD YOU NOT WANT THIS?!?!


Everyone knows he's going to use this to let us power up our characters on the 3DS and throw them on to the Wii U and beat the hell out of each other.... THAT IS FRIKIN AWESOME.

AdrockApril 26, 2012

My hope for the Adventure Mode, if it absolutely must exist, is that it take place in the actual individual universes or at least have the levels closely resemble them. I want to trek through actual Mario levels and punch/stab Goombas in the face. Melee's Adventure Mode generally changed the look but didn't stray as far as The Subspace Emissary. I know Smash Bros. takes place in its own Trophy/Toy Box World but that's what sucks about it. Nintendo's history is what makes Smash Bros. awesome. Ignoring that takes away the game's greatest asset.

hibern81April 26, 2012

Sounds cool to me!  No reason to be  getting your panties in a ruffle for a game that has just barely started production.  Give it time.

AdrockApril 26, 2012

I'm pretty excited despite the limited info available if only because I like the series. I was hoping the 3DS version would get axed so Sakurai could focus his energies on the Wii U game and maybe get it out faster but if he can juggle both games simultaneously, I see nothing wrong with that. More things for me to play.

Luigi DudeApril 26, 2012

Quote from: Adrock

I'm pretty excited despite the limited info available if only because I like the series. I was hoping the 3DS version would get axed so Sakurai could focus his energies on the Wii U game and maybe get it out faster but if he can juggle both games simultaneously, I see nothing wrong with that. More things for me to play.

Well the 3DS version will probably run on a modified Brawl engine just like NSMB DS 2 is running on a modified NSMB Wii engine.  This should allow them work on the 3DS version much easier since all of Brawl's returning characters will basically be done already and can easily be edited to make any move or design changes.  The same for stages where reusing Brawl's existing assests will allow for much quicker development.


I imagine the 3DS version will be out sometime in 2014 because of easier development while the Wii U version won't hit until 2015.  Of course this won't be too bad since we'll all have the 3DS version to keep us busy for a year before the Wii U version which I imagine Sakurai would like since we'll have are customizable characters ready to use on day 1 for the Wii U game.

AdrockApril 26, 2012

That's a bit disconcerting. I don't want it to seem like they're just retreading ground. I already own Brawl. I don't need a Brawl version 2. I hope it's not too, too similar.

YoyomomApril 26, 2012


"The simple addition of new characters does not appear like it will cut it"? Oh my. I hope Sakurai knows what he's doing. The reason we loved Smash bros in the first place is because of our favorite Nintendo console characters. And I refuse to believe you can have enough characters. There's always that one character you've always wanted to see in a game with Mario, Link and the others. It's been that way since the dawn of smash bros, or even before that.


Then again, if Sakurai plans on giving us the ability to make custom characters, it may make up for the rejection of that one character.

Luigi DudeApril 26, 2012

Quote from: Adrock

That's a bit disconcerting. I don't want it to seem like they're just retreading ground. I already own Brawl. I don't need a Brawl version 2. I hope it's not too, too similar.

Just because it's using the same engine doesn't mean it'll play the exact same.  All it means is when they design the characters, they'll already have 39 existing already done so it won't be like Melee or Brawl where all the returning characters need to be completely overhauled because their previous character models and animations were out of date with the hardware.  Since the Wii and 3DS are pretty close in power, Brawls existing characters won't need to be updated that much expect for characters like Link and Zelda who'll have their Skyward Sword designs now.

In comparison, the Wii U version will have to be completely redone from scratch since there's a huge gap between the Wii and Wii U and all of Brawl's assests will be too out of date for that game.  This is the real reason I think Sakurai wants to make a 3DS version because he knows the Wii U version could easily take over 3 years to make because of what making everything from scratch on an HD system and he wants to get a handheld Smash Bros that can be made reusing Brawls assests out quicker to help make the wait for the Wii U version easier since that game will take a long time to make even if they weren't making a 3DS version.

AdrockApril 26, 2012

Quote from: Luigi

Just because it's using the same engine doesn't mean it'll play the exact same.  All it means...

It could mean a lot of things which is what makes it disconcerting.

And I didn't suggest that it would play the exact same way, I said, "I hope it's not too, too similar." The mechanics of Brawl are largely unchanged from Melee; it didn't evolve the gameplay as much as Melee did over the original. If Sakurai and his team are in fact using the Brawl engine, concern that the 3DS version falls too close to Brawl isn't at all preposterous. I don't want simple tweaks. I'd prefer the development team rethink the gameplay from top to bottom, evolving what works and tossing what doesn't out entirely. Still, Sakurai claiming that he plans to "change direction" is a good sign.

The GameCube and Wii aren't too far off in power. Was that extra horsepower really the motivator to create Brawl's assets from scratch? Sakurai and Game Arts didn't reuse Melee's assets but they did have access to Melee's source code. That said, I'd prefer the 3DS team build their game's assets from scratch, merely using Brawl's source code as a guide rather than reusing entire assets. Who knows what the art style is going to be like but if the 3DS game and the Wii U game are going to connect to each either and work in tandem, I'd would like some parity between the 2. Brawl was in development for a little less than 2 and a half years so I'd expect roughly the same here.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterApril 26, 2012

I certainly remember Sakurai saying the first course of action was to port over the contents of Brawl to the Wii U and 3DS, so it would make sense the 3DS version would come out first. But I also remember even earlier after Brawl had released he said he could not port over Brawl because the hardware difference would be too great, so which is it?

It was recently after Smash U was announced that he said he would be moving the contents of Brawl over to the next game. I suppose one can do that but still have to build character models from the ground up.

nacorious1April 26, 2012

cant wait :)

Quote from: Yoyomom

"The simple addition of new characters does not appear like it will cut it"? Oh my. I hope Sakurai knows what he's doing. The reason we loved Smash bros in the first place is because of our favorite Nintendo console characters. And I refuse to believe you can have enough characters. There's always that one character you've always wanted to see in a game with Mario, Link and the others. It's been that way since the dawn of smash bros, or even before that.


Then again, if Sakurai plans on giving us the ability to make custom characters, it may make up for the rejection of that one character.

I don't think he's saying he's not going to add new characters, but that he needs to do more than just that. Sakurai's got great ambition, as is usual with him; hopefully he manages to pull off what he's set his mind to.

Ian SaneApril 26, 2012

Brawl is actually so forgettable to me that when I looked at that page with the list of generic enemies I didn't recognize ANY of them.  And I beat the damn thing!  Realistically in SSB there shouldn't be original enemies.  It would make more sense to put in enemies from Nintendo games.  The story mode should have us fighting Koopas and Metroids and Moblins.

One reason that fighting games don't change things up too much is that doing so would turn off the existing fanbase.  Fighting games are almost all about the engine.  The fans want new characters and tweaks to the existing characters to improve balance but the whole thing is almost like a sport.  They like the way the game handles and don't want to fuck with it.  Or maybe a good comparison is the different editions of AD&D.

I think it would be a funny idea if SSB switched to Street Fighter II quarter-circle style special moves.  Boy would that piss a lot of people off.  No I don't seriously want them to do this.

A Nintendo-themed Kingdom Hearts style game has been on people's wishlist for a long time.  A good concept for connectivity would be to make such a game on the 3DS and have it connect with the fighting game on the Wii U.

GoldenPhoenixApril 26, 2012

Whatever he does, all I ask is no more clone characters, at least when it comes to characters that shouldn't be clones. Alternative forms for a particular character is fine to clone, as long as it doesn't take too much away from developing other areas, but make every distinct character fresh and unique.


I hope they just ax subspace emissary (or some other alternative) and go back to the more simple 1 player modes of the previous games. Sadly I don't think Sakurai will let go of that idea, he seems to like cramming everything he can into a game, even if I feel it would be better to direct the vast majority of the resources to crafting characters, levels, and balance.

For once, I'm with Ian; it would be awesome if Sakurai played up the single player in the 3DS one to the point of being a Nintendo-ized Kingdom Hearts-ish kind of game, but only if he writes the story himself in a similar style to Kid Icarus: Uprising's awesomely insane story.

Luigi DudeApril 26, 2012

Quote from: GoldenPhoenix

Whatever he does, all I ask is no more clone characters, at least when it comes to characters that shouldn't be clones. Alternative forms for a particular character is fine to clone, as long as it doesn't take too much away from developing other areas, but make every distinct character fresh and unique.

The only clone character in Smash Bros that doesn't make any sense is Ganondorf.  All the other clones in Melee and Brawl have made sense because they're based on characters from the same series that are similar to each other in the games they're from.


Of course since it sounds like customization is going to be a huge part of the next Smash Bros technically there won't be anymore clones since the player will be able to customize how their characters play.  So if people don't want Ganondorf to be a Caption Falcon clone, they can just equip him with something that will give him different attacks and then he'll know longer be a clone.


Seriously, people need to look up Kid Icarus: Uprising and all the customization it allows when talking about what Sakurai will do with the next Smash Bros.  You can tell he was planning something like this when he started doing this in Brawl's Subspace Emissary with the stickers to the trophies to change stats for that mode, and then took it to the next level with Uprising and all the weapons that can be created that change how Pit plays.  This pretty much points to the next Smash Bros having a deep customization system like Uprising does which will basically allow the player to change the way the way characters will play.

Mop it upApril 26, 2012

Hopefully they'll be changing direction in more ways that simply adding connectivity between the two games, and hopefully that will be in addition to adding in more content like characters and stages instead of replacing them, and hopefully everything isn't dictated by Sakurai this time.

That sounds like a lot of hope, but I'm not very hopeful. Smash Brothers isn't a game suited for single player, and if they are still going to focus on stuff like that, then I'm not even going to waste my time hoping the game will be what I want from a Smash Brothers game.

Spak-SpangApril 26, 2012

Who cares if the clones make sense or not...they weren't fun characters...and those characters could of been made with new moves. 


The thing with clones is it a lazy way of adding characters, and it tends to treat those characters as less important. 


I would love for a Smash Brothers Game on the 3DS to be more focused on single player...as long as you aren't allowed to take weapons and leveled up characters from the 3DS game into the Wii U game.  That is where I say NO.


Since my favorite mode from Melee was the Adventure mode, that expanded single player game would make Smash Bros. 3DS the version of the game I would want.  However, I don't want generic enemies.  I honestly wanted to stop playing the single player modes, because the enemy design was so bad it sucked all the excitement from the game.

SMWizApril 27, 2012

What I personally would like to see in the next Smash Bros. game is the inclusion of more classic stages--especially the ones from the N64. Those were some great stages, but the only one to make it to Brawl was Corneria. Very few N64 stages made it into Melee and few Melee stages made it into Brawl. In Brawl's stage builder, I recreated (to the best of my ability with the limited pieces) several of the classic stages. From the developer's statements, it does not seem like he would be particularly interested in adding these classic stages, but it is something I would love to see.

tendoboy1984May 27, 2012

Quote from: Adrock

I'm curious how they're going to interact with each other.

I'm also curious what Sakurai means by "change direction." I'd like to see the gameplay evolve well beyond the minor changes that Brawl introduced. He also mentioned the issue of simply increasing volume not cutting it. I agree. That should be one aspect of the new games but certainly not the extent of it.

Aside from Final Smashes, Brawl did little to change the formula that had been improved by Melee. Melee was where the series truly defined itself.

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