Smash Bros. was unveiled at a closed door meeting, not a open roundtable.

Matt said no pics, o no, he will tell us Kid Icarus! lol

Only a new Zelda will make this worthwhile, unless they unveil an awesome 3rd party game which they won't.

If they show Pikmin 3 and say 2009 I will be happy.

ZELDA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buy as many montion+s as you can!

Tears of joy and I havn't seen a thing!

I'm looking forward to seeing this new depiction of a Link that's "more adult than ever." I hope it shows up on the Interwebs soon!

Yeah, I hope a picture of this new Link shows up somewhere.

I hope somebody ask about the motion camera that they are developing with Ubisoft.
they already brought up the cameras from Sony & MS

I already planned to buy Wii Sports Resort, but I encourage everyone to buy a Wii MotionPlus so it will convince Nintendo to incorporate it into the next Zelda.

My imagination of the new zelda vs what I got...

I liked his response to the achievements question (though I'm not entirely against them myself): "I'm not a big fan of using the carrots to motivate people to play. I want people to play because they enjoy playing and want to play more."

No pictures where allowed though. I hope just one person broke that rule. Keeping that picture secret doesn't help anything. Showing us just makes our mouths foam! haha

Quote:
New super mario brow wii can't support online because is using up all of the wiis processing power

ahahahaha, oh wait :'(

That is pretty sad....

The four players in NSMBWii is that complex? Given that games like Conduit and Mario Kart Wii have 12-person online... but then again, Brawl supported up to four and that had some bad lag. Given that Brawl depends a lot on accuracy, where Mario Kart Wii deals with its lag by making attacks and positions less precise, NSMBWii seems to depend on accuracy as well, from what I've seen.

Quote from: stevey

Quote:
New super mario brow wii can't support online because is using up all of the wiis processing power

ahahahaha, oh wait :'(

Right. Tell High Voltage Software that.

Quote from: ThomasO

The four players in NSMBWii is that complex? Given that games like Conduit and Mario Kart Wii have 12-person online... but then again, Brawl supported up to four and that had some bad lag. Given that Brawl depends a lot on accuracy, where Mario Kart Wii deals with its lag by making attacks and positions less precise, NSMBWii seems to depend on accuracy as well, from what I've seen.

And Yoshis, don't forget Yoshis. They just eat up processing power, hur-hur.

Link more grown up than ever before?  I hope he's still pretty! D:

Quote from: NovaQ

Quote from: ThomasO

The four players in NSMBWii is that complex? Given that games like Conduit and Mario Kart Wii have 12-person online... but then again, Brawl supported up to four and that had some bad lag. Given that Brawl depends a lot on accuracy, where Mario Kart Wii deals with its lag by making attacks and positions less precise, NSMBWii seems to depend on accuracy as well, from what I've seen.

And Yoshis, don't forget Yoshis. They just eat up processing power, hur-hur.

Thread win for NovaQ.

The roundtable was nice. I wasn't expecting any megatons but the Zelda tease was nice. Good to know that Wii Sports Resort is a tease of what to expect in any future game.

Quote from: ThomasO

The four players in NSMBWii is that complex? Given that games like Conduit and Mario Kart Wii have 12-person online... but then again, Brawl supported up to four and that had some bad lag. Given that Brawl depends a lot on accuracy, where Mario Kart Wii deals with its lag by making attacks and positions less precise, NSMBWii seems to depend on accuracy as well, from what I've seen.

I don't know what happened with Brawl. When I played it online a few weeks after launch it was fine, I never experienced lag until I tried playing it online again a few months later (normally lag goes down over time, not gets worse).

Well, I'm not necessarily disappointed about lack of online play, its multiplayer feels like a very together experience, rather than several playing together but far and apart. The game play of NSMBWii also seems like it could be a nice draw for griefers, which I hated in MKW and Brawl.

double post, sorry  :-[

I don't play my Wii with anybody else locally, so no online play is a huge disappointment to me. Hopefully the single player is good.

I'm not surprised to hear that a new Zelda is in the works but if they don't have anything to show now then it probably won't be released until another two years or so. Still, it is good to know it is coming eventually.

Quote from: TJ

Quote from: ThomasO

The four players in NSMBWii is that complex? Given that games like Conduit and Mario Kart Wii have 12-person online... but then again, Brawl supported up to four and that had some bad lag. Given that Brawl depends a lot on accuracy, where Mario Kart Wii deals with its lag by making attacks and positions less precise, NSMBWii seems to depend on accuracy as well, from what I've seen.

I don't know what happened with Brawl. When I played it online a few weeks after launch it was fine, I never experienced lag until I tried playing it online again a few months later (normally lag goes down over time, not gets worse).

Me too, I played a lot of lag free Brawl with friends in the NW, SW, SE, and me in the NE (As far away as you can get in the US) without incident. Brawl is capable of it, but it's a narrow window and a lot of things can gunk it up....

Quote from: stevey

Quote from: TJ

I don't know what happened with Brawl. When I played it online a few weeks after launch it was fine, I never experienced lag until I tried playing it online again a few months later (normally lag goes down over time, not gets worse).

Me too, I played a lot of lag free Brawl with friends in the NW, SW, SE, and me in the NE (As far away as you can get in the US) without incident. Brawl is capable of it, but it's a narrow window and a lot of things can gunk it up....

Thinking about it, it might be because Europe and Australasia were added to the mix: more distances to cover. The lag could've been made less worse if there was the option to play regionally rather than only worldwide altogether.

Miyamoto, you fantastic person. You're gonna make me end my boycott.

Odd that there was no mention of Pikmin 3.

New Zelda is hardly an announcement.  New Zelda is inevitable.  It could be years away.  I'm happy that it's adult Link though.  The Celda fans have the DS games so I think it's only fair that realistic Zelda gets the consoles.

No Pikmin 3 info of any sort is disappointing.  Nintendo has shown some 2010 titles at E3 this year.  So is Pikmin 3 a 2011 title?  Had they just started it last year?

Realistically though I didn't really expect Miyamoto to be announcing all sorts of games at this thing.  That's what the conference is for.  I think last year was an exception because Nintendo shit the bed and Miyamoto felt pressure to say SOMETHING to calm things down.

Just imagine how epic next years E3 could be.

Galaxy 2, Metroid, Zelda, Pikmin 3

I include Galaxy and Metroid because they arn't playable to my knowledge.

Quote from: Ian

New Zelda is hardly an announcement.  New Zelda is inevitable.  It could be years away.  I'm happy that it's adult Link though.  The Celda fans have the DS games so I think it's only fair that realistic Zelda gets the consoles.

No Pikmin 3 info of any sort is disappointing.  Nintendo has shown some 2010 titles at E3 this year.  So is Pikmin 3 a 2011 title?  Had they just started it last year?

Realistically though I didn't really expect Miyamoto to be announcing all sorts of games at this thing.  That's what the conference is for.  I think last year was an exception because Nintendo shit the bed and Miyamoto felt pressure to say SOMETHING to calm things down.

http://kotaku.com/5276531/miyamoto-sorry-he-has-no-new-pikmin-for-us-yet

I thought that idiotic term "Celda" died years ago when the game got universal praise from critics and sold millions of copies, thus proving haters wrong.

I love Celda games.

So do I, Wind Waker is my second favorite Zelda game (after Twilight Princess). I just hate the term Celda.

I love games which pass off poor graphics as a stylistic choice. :D

Please don't turn this into another argument about which art style is better.  Different people prefer different styles, the end.  GAWD. O:<

I actually view Celda as a term of endearment now for the game. I like it so I call it and games like it Celda. It's not a negative word when I use it.

I feel like the graphical style really changed the feel the game and the term "Celda" makes it distinct from the rest of the series like it is.

Who first coined the term "Celda"? Wasn't it fans of the game? I didn't think it was meant as a derogatory term...

The new Link will have a beard.

Just you wait and see...

It was from people who were bashing the game just because it was gonna use cel-shading (the same people bashing a game before they even played it themselves).

Maybe it could become a good term. "Yankee" started out as a insult that the British would call Americans, now it's a term of pride.

Yeah, some forums actually censored the word 'Celda' at one point because of the flame wars that ensued from it.

Glad you came up with Yankee there, TJ, as another real life example came to my mind that I'd rather not bring up that went through a similar transition.

Same with the word n*gga.
We hold it near and dear to our hearts....
everybody uses it as a term of endearment now... well except the racist.

Quote from: Smash_Brother
The new Link will have a beard.

Just you wait and see...

I'll cry! D;

Quote from: Smash_Brother

The new Link will have a beard.

Just you wait and see...

That reminds me of a drawing I saw by somebody who could never beat the first Zelda game. The drawing was Link as a senior, because the person imagined that that's how old Link would get by the time he could beat the game...

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Same with the word n*gga.
We hold it near and dear to our hearts....
everybody uses it as a term of endearment now... well except the racist.

Everyone does? I thought only black people could use it or else it was racist.

The term dike also got retaken as a normal term, though that one started out OK but was taken over by others for negativity and then retaken recently.

Quote from: Smash_Brother

The new Link will have a beard.

Just you wait and see...

Would he loose his girlie charm and replace it with rugged manliness?

Quote from: Mop_it_up

Quote from: Smash_Brother

The new Link will have a beard.

Just you wait and see...

That reminds me of a drawing I saw by somebody who could never beat the first Zelda game. The drawing was Link as a senior, because the person imagined that that's how old Link would get by the time he could beat the game...

Yeah that was from Iam8bit a few years back.

Quote from: Stratos

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Same with the word n*gga.
We hold it near and dear to our hearts....
everybody uses it as a term of endearment now... well except the racist.

Everyone does? I thought only black people could use it or else it was racist.

The term dike also got retaken as a normal term, though that one started out OK but was taken over by others for negativity and then retaken recently.

Not everybody, but its pretty common to see whyte boyz & other wannabe's greeting each other that way.

You gotta know someone like that though who uses it. You can't just run around saying it if your as pale as I am.

Not to get of topic, but either a word is racist or it isn't. I hate when I hear a black person say it's OK for them to use it but not anyone else. You can't can't have a word be OK for some people to use and not others.

Like BnM said, a lot of people use it now in a non-racist way so it is becoming more acceptable to use. JUST LIKE (returning to topic) Celda is now considered an acceptable term for the cel shaded Zelda games.

SPEAKING of Zelda, I am curious to see what they do for the multiplayer since it was revealed that it will support up to 4 players in game.

Train Wars?

I personally loved the multiplayer in the last DS Zelda and would love to see that expanded. Two people vying for triforce shards and two hunting down players would be really neat.

sure we can. we had to take ownership of the word.
Other people in the past have proven to use the word as a negative label, and black people took the word and redefined it among themselves.
I personally don't use it (it may slip out on a rare occasion or two) and my friends know not to use the word (around me) either.
Not that it really bothers me, but they do it out of respect, since I don't even use the word myself.

It has become more of a mainstream hip hop greeting or term, but that doesn't mean that just anybody can use it, and definitely not anytime they feel like it. If the wrong person says that at the wrong time infront of the wrong people, they might have just started an incident, whether they meant it negatively or not.

but anyway.... Did you guys hear about Mature Link... yadda yadda yadda... insert joke about having a beard here.



Zelda

Link in Twilight Princess seemed pretty mature to me, not sure what else they really need to do.

Has anyone leaked the picture yet? You know someone got a shot of it on a phone or something.

Quote from: TJ
Link in Twilight Princess seemed pretty mature to me, not sure what else they really need to do.

IGN said more grown up, not more mature.  Implying older.  He's still pretty young in TP.

Yeah, I think Link has never been older than his late teens in Zelda games.

Yeah, Link in TP was not Mature to me. Probably because he didn't speak. And that ridiculous getup before you got your proper outfit. I hated that. Was it just pieces of cloth held together with a belt? I also felt it was a bit anticlimactic how he got his real tunic. After having your dear old Grandma hand sew you one it felt wrong to just 'magically' have one appear on you.

Also, his oldest recorded age in a game has been 17 in Zelda 2 on NES. I think that is still technically the latest game in the cannon outside of the Wind Waker/Celda games.

Quote from: TJ

Yeah, I think Link has never been older than his late teens in Zelda games.

So I guess we're going to see a twenty-something Link who's fresh out of college and just secured a mundane office job?

becoMing A father Leads ONe to mature rather quickly

Quote from: TJ

Link in Twilight Princess seemed pretty mature to me, not sure what else they really need to do.

Get rid of the lame-o earrings.

Quote from: Zap

becoMing A father Leads ONe to mature rather quickly

Well with all the lady friends he seems to attract on his travels he was bound to hook up with one at some point, right? The question is, who? I guess Marin.

An actual adult Link? now I'm interested.

Still, I'm surprised the development is apparently so far behind, it's been 3 years already.

I guess they had to wait for Link to get a little older.

That's assuming development is behind. They could just be holding onto the game. If the game uses Motion Plus and the peripheral gets off to a rough start, Zelda will basically validate its existence because we all know fans would buy anything for the next big Zelda.

I bet its further along than you think, they just didn't want everyone getting over-hyped and over-looking Zelda: Spirit Tracks.

Quote from: Stratos

Quote from: Zap

becoMing A father Leads ONe to mature rather quickly

Well with all the lady friends he seems to attract on his travels he was bound to hook up with one at some point, right? The question is, who? I guess Marin.

Agreed

Marin > Malon

Even though Marin turns into a stupid bird at the end..... She wanted Link's babies so bad.

Quote from: Adrock

That's assuming development is behind. They could just be holding onto the game. If the game uses Motion Plus and the peripheral gets off to a rough start, Zelda will basically validate its existence because we all know fans would buy anything for the next big Zelda.

Except the number of Zelda fans that would buy Motion+ just for this game aren't many compared to all of the customers I'm sure Miyamoto and Nintendo hope to reach with this game. During a roundtable discussion earlier tonight, Miyamoto said that the game may be Motion+ exclusive if the accessory is really successful. The developers may be kind of stuck right now trying to decide if they should go M+ exclusive or design the game to be used without it. That would slow progress, I imagine.

I don't think that would stop them. If Motion Plus makes the game better, it'll use the peripheral. Case in point, Twilight Princess. The game didn't need to use the Wii remote, but it certainly added something to the game and Nintendo wouldn't have bothered if they didn't think it would work.

TP's Wii controls were tacked on and awful.  Bad example.

Quote from: Adrock

I don't think that would stop them. If Motion Plus makes the game better, it'll use the peripheral. Case in point, Twilight Princess. The game didn't need to use the Wii remote, but it certainly added something to the game and Nintendo wouldn't have bothered if they didn't think it would work.

I don't think it would stop them, either. I wonder, though, if it would slow development time and/or make the game feel like it's "stuck" in between the two control sensitivities (M+ and regular Wiimote). Call me crazy, but I feel like TP suffered the same effects because of its eventual dual development.

Quote from: Smoke39

TP's Wii controls were tacked on and awful.  Bad example.

Right, what he said. Kinda.

New idea: This Zelda is the new Majora's Mask. Majora required the expansion pak. If the new Zelda requires M+ it may help bring more people on board the M+Express.

Hey, the more parallels with MM, the better, I say.

You know, as long as it's still its own game.

Quote from: Smoke39

TP's Wii controls were tacked on and awful.  Bad example.

It was the same thing except the aiming the bow was better. Tacked on, sure, but I felt it worked. To each his own.

As long as it doesn't have a timed element then I don't care how much of it parallels Majora's Mask.

I hope it isn't too motion-intensive because this isn't the type of game you play in quick bursts like Wii Sports...

Quote from: Adrock

Quote from: Smoke39

TP's Wii controls were tacked on and awful.  Bad example.

It was the same thing except the aiming the bow was better. Tacked on, sure, but I felt it worked. To each his own.

They weren't the same.  Camera control took a huge step back, item selection was awkward, and simply remapping B to waggle for combat just felt wrong, particularly when playing as a wolf.  I honestly couldn't stand it. XP

The Wii controls for the game were vastly superior to the GameCube version. Camera was never a problem for me, item selection felt natural, waggling for combat made it feel more fun. I also loved playing in wolf form (although controls weren't as good as wolf mode). It was by far the best Zelda experience ever.

Waggling for combat could have felt more fun if they'd put any effort into it.  Why do I still have to move forward to perform a stab?  Why can't I just wave the remote up to do a jump attack?  I kept wanting to use the remote like it was a sword and had to keep reminding myself to think of it as a glorified B button.  Even without the motionplus sword combat could have been much more visceral than it was.

Quote from: Mop_it_up

I'm not surprised to hear that a new Zelda is in the works but if they don't have anything to show now then it probably won't be released until another two years or so. Still, it is good to know it is coming eventually.

Yes except you'll have the awkward decision as to whether to purchase Zelda on Wii w/ motion plus or Wii 2 w/ tacked on head tracking and hologrammophonic controls. And a mirrored world of course.

Give me motion Zelda.  I want to twist the Master Sword as I drive it into a Moblin.

Better yet, give me MOTION CREMIA.

Quote from: blackfootsteps

Quote from: Mop_it_up

I'm not surprised to hear that a new Zelda is in the works but if they don't have anything to show now then it probably won't be released until another two years or so. Still, it is good to know it is coming eventually.

Yes except you'll have the awkward decision as to whether to purchase Zelda on Wii w/ motion plus or Wii 2 w/ tacked on head tracking and hologrammophonic controls. And a mirrored world of course.

Hey, if it's mirrored again, it'll be back to normal, right?

Are there any clear pictures of this older Link any where? all i've seen is the NWR blury tiny one.

Quote from: Caterkiller

Are there any clear pictures of this older Link any where? all i've seen is the NWR blury tiny one.

where did you see that?

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Quote from: Caterkiller

Are there any clear pictures of this older Link any where? all i've seen is the NWR blury tiny one.

where did you see that?

Either in a staff blog or talkback section.. one of those forums i barely visit but should

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Quote from: Caterkiller

Are there any clear pictures of this older Link any where? all i've seen is the NWR blury tiny one.

where did you see that?

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=28435.msg518437#msg518437

So it looks vaguely Twilight Princess-ish? Twilight sequel confirmed? I'd like to see Midna return in some fashion. I liked her.

Midna was the only character that was remotely interesting, but I wouldn't want to revisit that Hyrule again any time soon.

Who said it had to be set in Hyrule? Did Majora's Mask take place in Ocarina's Hyrule, or even Hyrule at all?

Ugh, whatever. I meant, the world in general presented in Twilight Princess wasn't very interesting. It was like Ocarina of Time but annoying and there were collect-a-thons everywhere, they even made collecting heart pieces more annoying. I don't want to derail this topic into a TP thread. The game was good, but riddled with questionable design choices.

OK, I understand, I though you were talking about the literal game region, but you were speaking more of art style and tone. I can understand that.

There is still time after all, it is just concept art. It could turn out to be a whole lot different. It could even change directions to a more cel-shaded look if Miyamoto felt like it. That would actually make a lot of sense I think to make it more of a Wind Waker style game but with no water to sail on.

I think a different kind of art direction than the one in Wind Waker could do wonders for the series. Maybe something that resembled an oil painting, something Baroque/Rococo inspired (that's Baroque as in the 18th century art style, not the game), for example. I guess my issue with Wind Waker's art direction was that it was too radical a change while many other design concepts didn't evolve much from OoT/MM. It was like Nintendo missed the point. People lashed out at the graphics for being "not Zelda," which I agreed with to a point back then (now, it's just an accepted fact) but I found it charming enough that the same art direction could have been applied to a completely new and original series not tied to the rules and confines of the Zelda series and been one of that game's main selling points, the thing that made it stand out, rather than a Zelda game that alienated some fans. In other words, the Zelda brand was used to sell the art direction rather than the art direction selling the game.

My hope, though, for any sequel, not just for Zelda, is that the developers learn from mistakes made in previous installments. Twilight Princess seemed to be a response to people's distaste for Wind Waker, but many things remained largely unchanged. There was still a very large open main hub world with almost nothing to do. That was true over 10 years ago with Ocarina of Time and was still true in 2006.

I don't want to judge the new Zelda based on one fuzzy pic of concept art. However, making Link older doesn't inherently change anything.

I still haven't sat down and categorically explored the reasons I was disappointed with TP. *sigh*

However, I WILL say that the one experience in that game that I absolutely LOVED and couldn't have been done elsewhere was the western town section with the bow. MAN I LOVED the bow in that section of TP.

I only played about an hour into Twilight Princess and lost my save when I installed the homebrew channel, all this debate recently about the game is making me want to check it out for myself.

Oil painting huh? That is a nice idea. I to really want a new visual style for the next Zelda, too much of every other game looks exactly the same. 

Quote from: Adrock

I think a different kind of art direction than the one in Wind Waker could do wonders for the series. Maybe something that resembled an oil painting, something Baroque/Rococo inspired (that's Baroque as in the 18th century art style, not the game), for example.

Quote from: Caterkiller

Oil painting huh? That is a nice idea. I to really want a new visual style for the next Zelda, too much of every other game looks exactly the same.

I was thinking the exact same thing. And who knows, Jonny described the single Zelda artwork as a watercolor piece in his detailed write-up of Miyamoto's roundtable discussion. How awesome would it be if the new Zelda looked like a living watercolor or oil painting? I can even imagine the title screen simply being an impressive still "painting," and when you start a new game, the camera fades into the painting, which starts moving to begin the opening cutscene. (They could even do mini-paintings with the same effect in the file select screen.)

I'm trying to tie new Wii Zelda discussions to a dedicated thread, which you can find here.

Chris Kohler has a good interview with Miyamoto up http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/shigeru-miyamoto-interview/

Quote from: Adrock

Midna was the only character that was remotely interesting, but I wouldn't want to revisit that Hyrule again any time soon.

I kinda agree.. Those other characters who are heroes like Link that go around and investigate the strange goings-on probably have a lot of interesting depth, but they are such minor characters that they don't really get a chance. Nintendo franchises have no trouble introducing lots of new characters, but what's missing is the depth. We had that with Midna, but what about all these other characters? What are their back stories? Unfortunately, we will probably never see or hear from or about them again in any future Zelda game, so that really sucks....

I loved that Hyrule. If they clean it up a little (make the graphics specifically for the Wii), I would love to re-visit it. Twilight Princess was the best Zelda game and I loved that version of Hyrule (although I will admit that I didn't love the Twilight Realm, except the castle at the end of the game).

"Miyamoto: I’ve talked to (Galaxy director Yoshiaki) Koizumi about that a lot, but this time I’d like to go with as little story as possible"

Oh Miyamoto, you overachiever you. Always raising the bar and going above and beyond the call of duty

Super Mario Galaxy already has as little story as possible. Part of it (the storybook) was even optional. Having less means having none, you're just going to get thrown into the game without a prologue whatsoever. Which would be fine by me, I hate sitting through those things.

Quote from: Mop_it_up

Super Mario Galaxy already has as little story as possible. Part of it (the storybook) was even optional. Having less means having none, you're just going to get thrown into the game without a prologue whatsoever. Which would be fine by me, I hate sitting through those things.

I loved the Rosalina side story. It was like a beautiful, mournful ballad. On one hand it is perfect and you can't top perfection, but on the other I want to see more.

Quote from: Mop_it_up

Super Mario Galaxy already has as little story as possible. Part of it (the storybook) was even optional. Having less means having none, you're just going to get thrown into the game without a prologue whatsoever. Which would be fine by me, I hate sitting through those things.

I completely agree with the above statement and am fully in favor of all games using as little story as possible.

Quote from: insanolord

Quote from: Mop_it_up

Super Mario Galaxy already has as little story as possible. Part of it (the storybook) was even optional. Having less means having none, you're just going to get thrown into the game without a prologue whatsoever. Which would be fine by me, I hate sitting through those things.

I completely agree with the above statement and am fully in favor of all games using as little story as possible.

I wouldn't mind it being like the original LoZ:

Turn on the game, read a paragraph, boom you're in the middle of nowhere and all you see is a cave.. HOLY SHIT I GOT A SWORD.. :explore;

I've never understood why games have cutscenes where you can't control anything. The whole point of playing a game over watching a movie is that you get to control the action. One area where games still need to evolve is storytelling; find a way to present a story whilst still giving you control over something. And no, though "interactive" cutscenes where you have to sometimes press a button don't cut it.

Its because game designers are very controlling. Plus the media is limited. People have a story to tell and want it told THEIR way. Plus it is close to impossible to make something completely open to player control without the story falling apart into a jumbled stack of chaos.

I learned this when I was playing this story telling game (think D&D but without the paper and stats and everything. It's all verbal). I got a turn to lead a game and was frustrated at how no one would go along with my story and mechanics like I had planned. They kept "breaking" my game so that any character I felt was critical to my story I had to either let them kill or make it flee. Many designers want a controlled experience but games are anything but this typically because or the openness of user input.

Story means that designers have to account for anything happening in anyway. Cut scenes allow them to force the game to go the way they want it to go.

I just experienced a frusturating cut scene in Bioshock. Cut scenes FTL

I actually don't mind cutscenes, if they are skippable. It is so annoying dying and having to watch a long cutscene again, or replaying a game and having to watch it again when I just want to play the game.

Has this been posted?

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/zelda-wii-motionplus/

Speaking exclusively to Wired.com, however, he said that he’s pushing the game’s developers to create a Zelda experience that requires the extra features.

“The goal at this point is that we would make Wii MotionPlus required in order to play Zelda,” he said.

It’s reasonable to assume that Zelda’s use of MotionPlus might depend on how many of the devices Nintendo sells between now and the game’s far-off release date. But Miyamoto says that’s not actually the case.

“The bigger hurdle for us is not really whether people have a Wii MotionPlus or don’t have it, it’s whether or not the experience is one where people will think they want to have a Wii Motion Plus in order to experience it,” he said.

more of the interview at the link above.

But it looks like Zelda Wii will most likely require M+, so hopefully that means that Nintendo will start bundling it in with the system.

Or they will bundle it with Zelda. They did a bundle with DK64 of the expansion pak and they did that specifically to pave the way for Majora's Mask requiring it. Though the Wii looks like it will have a longer lifespan than the N64 so they might be more open to bundling the Wii with M+.

Maybe we can have a black Wii bundle with black sontrollers and black M+. I'd buy a new system just to get that.

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Has this been posted?

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/zelda-wii-motionplus/

Speaking exclusively to Wired.com, however, he said that he’s pushing the game’s developers to create a Zelda experience that requires the extra features.

“The goal at this point is that we would make Wii MotionPlus required in order to play Zelda,” he said.

It’s reasonable to assume that Zelda’s use of MotionPlus might depend on how many of the devices Nintendo sells between now and the game’s far-off release date. But Miyamoto says that’s not actually the case.

“The bigger hurdle for us is not really whether people have a Wii MotionPlus or don’t have it, it’s whether or not the experience is one where people will think they want to have a Wii Motion Plus in order to experience it,” he said.

more of the interview at the link above.

But it looks like Zelda Wii will most likely require M+, so hopefully that means that Nintendo will start bundling it in with the system.

If that is true, it's completely opposite of what Miyamoto said at the roundtable. He had said the next Zelda would only use Wii MotionPlus if enough people had it.

I don't see Nintendo including Wii MotionPlus ever with the system. Don't forget (as Stratos said) that The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask required the N64 RAM Expansion Pack in order to play it buy Nintendo didn't bundle it with the system. Whenever Nintendo sells a game that requires a accessory they just bundle it with the accessory.

This indecisiveness is ridiculous. They need to get the game up and running in time for Christmas 2011.

But MM came out in like the last 18months of N64, it was too late to consider a bundle at that point. Besides there was only like 4 games that made use of that expansion pack.

With the Wii, it comes already comes bundled with WiiSports which is now getting a sequel to that uses M+. All they have to do is upgrade the current bundle to one including WiiSports Resort. Its a much different situation.

I don't see the need to bundle Wii MotionPlus when most games will not use it (or at least not require it). I think Nintendo sees this too. Not to mention the fact that they would lose out on a lot of money. Donkey Kong 64 came out in 1999 and required it too.

Also, dozens of N64 games made use of the Expansion Pack (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_accessories#Expansion_Pak for some).

The nunchuck isn't required in a lot of games.

Also, of that list of N64 games only 4 required it for gameplay reasons. The rest it was purely aesthetic and you can't even tell or confirm that it did anything to improve some of those games.

Only a few games, such as Rare's Donkey Kong 64, the single player mode of Rare's Perfect Dark, the multiplayer mode of Blizzard's Starcraft 64 and Nintendo's The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask required it for play.

Wii sales are slowing, and demand could be increased by adding value to the package again.
How would you do that?
Price Cut!! - not likely
New Bundle!! - more likely

Instead of a price drop down to $199 they could just include a WiiSports Resort and keep the $250 price point.
Now all new users have M+ and all developers can develop for it without fear of supporting a peripheral without enough market penetration.
It will become a sort of Wii standard.

Quote from: Stratos

The nunchuck isn't required in a lot of games.

Also, of that list of N64 games only 4 required it for gameplay reasons. The rest it was purely aesthetic and you can't even tell or confirm that it did anything to improve some of those games.

Only a few games, such as Rare's Donkey Kong 64, the single player mode of Rare's Perfect Dark, the multiplayer mode of Blizzard's Starcraft 64 and Nintendo's The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask required it for play.

Thanks for supporting my point with facts.

It could just be bundled with the new controllers as one bundle, though it doesn't look like they will do that since they are already selling them separately.

They have to sell it separately for the 100million+ wiimotes already out there.

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Wii sales are slowing, and demand could be increased by adding value to the package again.
How would you do that?
Price Cut!! - not likely
New Bundle!! - more likely

Instead of a price drop down to $199 they could just include a WiiSports Resort and keep the $250 price point.
Now all new users have M+ and all developers can develop for it without fear of supporting a peripheral without enough market penetration.
It will become a sort of Wii standard.

Quote from: Stratos

The nunchuck isn't required in a lot of games.

Also, of that list of N64 games only 4 required it for gameplay reasons. The rest it was purely aesthetic and you can't even tell or confirm that it did anything to improve some of those games.

Only a few games, such as Rare's Donkey Kong 64, the single player mode of Rare's Perfect Dark, the multiplayer mode of Blizzard's Starcraft 64 and Nintendo's The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask required it for play.

Thanks for supporting my point with facts.

No, your point was that only 4 N64 games used the Expansion Pack. I showed you were wrong. As of right now only 2 games will require WMP (Wii Sports Resort and Red Steel 2). I don't see Nintendo bundling it with the Wii unless a decent amount of games start requiring it.

Video games sales in general are decreasing, not just the Wii. The Wii is also stil easily outselling the competition with the current model. The only thing I can see Nintendo doing this year is bringing that black Wii over to us.

Maybe if they make Wii 2 it will include an uber Wiimote, M+, Nunchuck and Classic Controller combo?

Remember the Rumble pack started as a sold separately + bundled with game on the N64 but nearly every system since has included it from the get go as part of the actual controller.

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Thanks for supporting my point with facts.

No problem :)

Quote from: Stratos

Also, of that list of N64 games only 4 required it for gameplay reasons. The rest it was purely aesthetic and you can't even tell or confirm that it did anything to improve some of those games.
Only a few games, such as Rare's Donkey Kong 64, the single player mode of Rare's Perfect Dark, the multiplayer mode of Blizzard's Starcraft 64 and Nintendo's The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask required it for play.

Never quote a Wikipedia page that is riddled with "citation needed". Hi there, my name's citation.

There was one other game which required the Expansion Pak for gameplay features and that is San Francisco Rush 2049. It enabled track 6, in-game music, ghosts in time trial, and a few other minor features. Granted, this isn't as major as something like the single-player mode of Perfect Dark, but every other game which used it did so for a hi-res mode. And it is very easy to tell when a game is running in high-res because it looks a lot more crisp, though this comes at a reduced framerate.

For the most part the Expansion Pak is equivalent to the component cable for the Wii.

But, I think the point here is that the Expansion Pak was absolutely required for only two games. However, it was released at a time when sales of the N64 were dwindling and it didn't exactly reinvigorate the system as Nintendo had hoped. And another important thing to remember here is that the Expansion Pak wasn't originally intended to be used with regular N64 games, it was originally designed for the 64 Dynamic Drive. Nintendo never exactly had big plans for it like they do with Wii Motion Plus.

There was one bundle which included the Expansion Pak, which was the Donkey Kong 64 Jungle Green bundle. I don't see why Nintendo couldn't offer more than one bundle with Wii as well. They've done it with just about all of their previous systems.

Good point about the different bundles on N64 Mop it up.

Also, agreed it was dangerous of me to quote a 'needs citation' article but I figured it was close enough to use in this context.

Though, I remember reading a few reviews and previews that stated that they couldn't tell what was different on certain N64 'optional' games. The pak did reportedly help with certain things like framerate in older and 'not optimized for expansion pak' games though.

Quote from: Stratos

The pak did reportedly help with certain things like framerate in older and 'not optimized for expansion pak' games though.

Who reported that? That is entirely inaccurate. Games can't utilize a device they weren't programmed for. The Expansion Pak cannot help with the framerate in any games, not even those designed for it. That task is entirely up to the CPU. And since the Expansion Pak doubled the amount of data the CPU needed to process, many Expansion Pak-compatible games had a decreased framerate.

Strangely though there is one game that is incompatible with the Expansion Pak. Space Station Silicon Valley will freeze up if the accessory is in the system. Even weirder is that not all copies seem to be plagued with this bug...

Maybe a different bug caused the system to crash in SSSV and the rereleased version had the fix, so those don't have the internal system conflict with the ExP.

It was minor differences supposedly. Most of my information in the N64 era came from IGN back when the name IGN was actualy an acronym for something and when they were known as www.n64.com

And games can use extra ram if coded a certain way. I remember a lesson on it in one of my programming classes where we edited the code in an old snake game to work properly on a faster system...now that I think about it, I believe that is a different idea and you are right. I was thinking of something else. Oops.

More from the interview posted earlier.

Miyamoto realizes that Zelda players might not want an excessive amount of motion controls in their adventure game, which has typically been about puzzle-solving and storylines rather than too-intricate action sequences.

“There may be a group of people out there who look at people playing motion control games and have a hesitancy to try to play those because they’re worried that they might not look so cool, swinging a Wii remote around. But in watching people play New Super Mario Bros. Wii, even though it’s just a simple shaking motion, I’m watching people play (it) with a big grin on their face.”

“So I’m hoping that we might be able to create a similar-feeling experience for Zelda,” he said.

Miyamoto went on to say that the game is still in a rougher state of development, which is why Nintendo declined to show any of it at E3.

“The development of Zelda has been focused strictly on the gameplay structure at this point. We haven’t devoted much in the way of efforts to things like graphical representation, and story, and those types of production elements,” he said.

Miyamoto said at E3 that although the current goal is to release the new Zelda in 2010, it could be pushed back. With two heavy hitters, Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Metroid: The Other M, already on for next year, it seems most likely that we’ll have to wait until 2011 to play Link’s next great adventure.

IGN = International Gaming Network?

There are known launch copies to not have the glitch. It isn't as simple as a later version fixing it.

IGN = Information Gamers Network

Imagine Games Network is what I recall it being.

Imagine, thats what it was.

I knew that Information sounded off.

Remember when the first 'sold out'?

Memories...  :rolleyes:

You can't spell "ignorant" without "IGN".

I actually remember what GameFAQs was like before the C-Net buyout. It used to be such a different place, one that was actually respectable. The site being bought like that made some people feel like others had profited on their works.

I hope NWR never sells out.

Though if they do I propose we rebel and start our own new forum called Neo-NWR or  Neo-PGC

I have conflicted feelings about NWR selling out. I mean sure there is the risk they could lose their integrity but it would be nice if these folks got paid for their work...

Quote from: TJ

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Has this been posted?

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/zelda-wii-motionplus/

Speaking exclusively to Wired.com, however, he said that he’s pushing the game’s developers to create a Zelda experience that requires the extra features.

“The goal at this point is that we would make Wii MotionPlus required in order to play Zelda,” he said.

It’s reasonable to assume that Zelda’s use of MotionPlus might depend on how many of the devices Nintendo sells between now and the game’s far-off release date. But Miyamoto says that’s not actually the case.

“The bigger hurdle for us is not really whether people have a Wii MotionPlus or don’t have it, it’s whether or not the experience is one where people will think they want to have a Wii Motion Plus in order to experience it,” he said.

more of the interview at the link above.

But it looks like Zelda Wii will most likely require M+, so hopefully that means that Nintendo will start bundling it in with the system.

If that is true, it's completely opposite of what Miyamoto said at the roundtable. He had said the next Zelda would only use Wii MotionPlus if enough people had it.

I don't see Nintendo including Wii MotionPlus ever with the system. Don't forget (as Stratos said) that The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask required the N64 RAM Expansion Pack in order to play it buy Nintendo didn't bundle it with the system. Whenever Nintendo sells a game that requires a accessory they just bundle it with the accessory.

But what if more than one game makes use of it? Should the accessory be bumdled with each game? The problem there is a gamer could end up with many more M+ things than he needs or would ever use...

Nintendo could offer both bundled and non-bundled versions of Wii Motion Plus games like others have. I think they did this with either Donkey Kong 64 or Majora's Mask but I would have to check...

Nintendo didn't bundle the Rumble Pak, Memory Card 59 or the Expansion pack with every game that made use of it.

They will just release one or two high profile games with it and then the rest will require it but not be bundled with it.

You have the two EA M+ sports games with the bundle, you have Red Steel 2, you have WS: Resort and then Zelda (if it does in fact bundle, this still remains to be seen). That's more than enough games-two 1st party and three 3rd party- to distribute it enough. Maybe throw in one more bridge title from Nintendo and we should be set. Maybe the Retro project could be Nintendo's #3 M+ specific game since we seem to believe that they are now M+ experts according to Ubisoft?

They will sell boat-loads of WSR when it comes out, and there are alot of fence sitters finally jumping in when WSR hits (for the M+).

Nintendo should just bundle the system with the game and call it a day.

Black Wii with all black controller, nunchuck & M+, WiiSports & WSR bundled in. Thats what I'm looking for and hoping Nintendo would consider it.

i bet Miyamoto doesn't rove NWR like he roved planetgamecube

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/specialArt.cfm?artid=2118

where is that video?

With Wii Sports Resort and Red Steel 2 both being bundled with the game automatically, and 2 other games having a bundle option (Tiger Woods PGA Tour 10 here in America, both Tiger Woods and Grand Slam Tennis in Europe) plus it being available separately, I think plenty of people would have it before the next Zelda releases (probably Holiday 2010). If Nintendo was really worried they could just make a bundle available.

"It’s a particular challenge for me, and the way that I develop games, because we tend to not release games before they’re done"

Did Miyamoto just diss the gaming industry?

Miyamoto is right, too often a publisher will release a bad game just to get it out there (especially with movie tie-in games that have to be out in time for the movies release). Miyamoto has said that a delayed game is eventually good but a bad game will always be bad (or something like that).

Quote from: TJ

I think plenty of people would have it before the next Zelda releases (probably Holiday 2010). If Nintendo was really worried they could just make a bundle available.

I probably won't have one by then so if Zelda requires it then I hope there is a bundle option.

Quote from: Kashogi

"It’s a particular challenge for me, and the way that I develop games, because we tend to not release games before they’re done"

Did Miyamoto just diss the gaming industry?

Yes, yes he did. In fact I seem to recall him having do so in the past as well.

Quote from: Mop_it_up

Quote from: TJ

I think plenty of people would have it before the next Zelda releases (probably Holiday 2010). If Nintendo was really worried they could just make a bundle available.

I probably won't have one by then so if Zelda requires it then I hope there is a bundle option.

You don't want WiiSportsResort, Mop it up? Why is that, may I ask?

Quote from: Stratos

You don't want WiiSportsResort, Mop it up? Why is that, may I ask?

No, you may not ask. But since you did: The draw of Wii Sports is its multiplayer aspect, and a friend of mine will probably be getting this. This isn't the type of game I'd really play by myself so there's not much point buying something I'd play only with a friend who's going to own it.

I got a feeling your going to be hanging out with your friend alot more.

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

Has this been posted?

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/zelda-wii-motionplus/

Speaking exclusively to Wired.com, however, he said that he’s pushing the game’s developers to create a Zelda experience that requires the extra features.

“The goal at this point is that we would make Wii MotionPlus required in order to play Zelda,” he said.

It’s reasonable to assume that Zelda’s use of MotionPlus might depend on how many of the devices Nintendo sells between now and the game’s far-off release date. But Miyamoto says that’s not actually the case.

“The bigger hurdle for us is not really whether people have a Wii MotionPlus or don’t have it, it’s whether or not the experience is one where people will think they want to have a Wii Motion Plus in order to experience it,” he said.

more of the interview at the link above.

But it looks like Zelda Wii will most likely require M+, so hopefully that means that Nintendo will start bundling it in with the system.

Nice find. You should post this over in the new Zelda thread, too - especially for the quotes you pulled from it in a later post from this thread.

feel free to transfer over what you feel is relevant to the conversation in that thread.
quote away... :)

Quote:
But in watching people play New Super Mario Bros. Wii, even though it’s just a simple shaking motion, I’m watching people play (it) with a big grin on their face.

Has Miyamoto ever considered that the people playing it had big grins on their faces because the game kicks ass and not necessarily because of shaking the remote?  Wario Land: Shake It! involves shaking the remote but I've never heard anyone praise the game because of it.  Those that have actually played that game like it because it's a fun game.  It has good level design and gameplay mechanics.

I want Zelda's motion controls to feel like they NEED to be there and for them to feel completely natural like I would never want this to control another way.  If it's just "whee I shake the remote!" that gets boring after like two times doing it and then it just becomes a chore.  Ocarina of Time was the first Zelda game to use the analog stick.  But it wasn't like there was some thrill to using it.  It was just smooth, accurate controls and you couldn't imagine it any other way.  Nintendo didn't try to use the analog stick specifically to make Zelda more fun.  Its implementation was strictly practical and functional and improved the game in a more subtle way.  That is what Nintendo should do with M+ Zelda: practical usage not novelty usage.  Remember the audience here.

With M+ it seems that our interpretation of what Nintendo's plans for it were and what their actual plans are seem very different.  Most of us thought that this was like the new standard and that damn near every Wii game was going to use this.  That isn't the case.  Nintendo announced several major Wii titles at E3 that don't use M+ at all, and I think we expected ALL of their new games to use it.  So I think Nintendo sees it more like the N64 expansion pack in that it's something that will be used by some games.

What if the next Zelda's aiming controls are more practical than analogue stick aiming just like TP's? Then where will we be

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

feel free to transfer over what you feel is relevant to the conversation in that thread.
quote away... :)

Thanks!

Quote from: Mop_it_up

Quote from: Stratos

You don't want WiiSportsResort, Mop it up? Why is that, may I ask?

No, you may not ask. But since you did: The draw of Wii Sports is its multiplayer aspect, and a friend of mine will probably be getting this. This isn't the type of game I'd really play by myself so there's not much point buying something I'd play only with a friend who's going to own it.

But what of the possible online features it will have since online is confirmed? It might have online play. What then?

Quote from: Ian

Quote:
But in watching people play New Super Mario Bros. Wii, even though it’s just a simple shaking motion, I’m watching people play (it) with a big grin on their face.

Has Miyamoto ever considered that the people playing it had big grins on their faces because the game kicks ass and not necessarily because of shaking the remote?  Wario Land: Shake It! involves shaking the remote but I've never heard anyone praise the game because of it.  Those that have actually played that game like it because it's a fun game.  It has good level design and gameplay mechanics.

I want Zelda's motion controls to feel like they NEED to be there and for them to feel completely natural like I would never want this to control another way.  If it's just "whee I shake the remote!" that gets boring after like two times doing it and then it just becomes a chore.  Ocarina of Time was the first Zelda game to use the analog stick.  But it wasn't like there was some thrill to using it.  It was just smooth, accurate controls and you couldn't imagine it any other way.  Nintendo didn't try to use the analog stick specifically to make Zelda more fun.  Its implementation was strictly practical and functional and improved the game in a more subtle way.  That is what Nintendo should do with M+ Zelda: practical usage not novelty usage.  Remember the audience here.

With M+ it seems that our interpretation of what Nintendo's plans for it were and what their actual plans are seem very different.  Most of us thought that this was like the new standard and that damn near every Wii game was going to use this.  That isn't the case.  Nintendo announced several major Wii titles at E3 that don't use M+ at all, and I think we expected ALL of their new games to use it.  So I think Nintendo sees it more like the N64 expansion pack in that it's something that will be used by some games.

Quoted from NovaQ in the Zelda Thread:

Quote from: NovaQ

Further quotes of interest from the Wired interview that IGN referenced (and BlackNMild2k1 posted elsewhere):

Quote from: Wired.com]“The


Ian, to me it sounds like M+ in Zelda will be a legitimate use as opposed to 'deluxe waggle'.