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Wii

There is No Definitive Zelda

by Evan Burchfield - August 28, 2006, 11:30 am PDT
Total comments: 85

An open letter to Nintendo.


Dear Nintendo:

There is a high level of frustration among Zelda fans right now, which is itself a feat that you should note. We are, after all, a very resilient bunch. We have put up with Twilight Princess' repeated delays and stylistic changes while patiently ignoring the dearth of official details and the game's recent lackluster E3 appearance. At times, it seems like you are throwing roadblocks in the way of us devoted Zelda players, and the latest and most bitter of these was the announcement that both a GameCube and Wii version of Twilight Princess would be released simultaneously. Now, I understand that you have tremendous faith in Wii and want Zelda to prove the new console's worth; at the same time you have clung to the release of a GameCube version as a sign of goodwill to those who purchased the system for Zelda alone. This is, I suppose, fine by me. Really, for the Nintendo faithful it should be a no-brainer: buy a Wii, get Zelda. From our mentality, the Wii version of Zelda is preferred since Wii is your new system and we're getting it anyway. Unfortunately, the problem facing Zelda fans now is that you have decided not to implement GameCube controls for Twilight Princess on Wii, confusing gamers as to which version truly is the next Zelda game.

I prefer things to be definitive. When I purchase something, I do not want to be forced to purchase an addition for it to be complete, or have to upgrade in the future. You as a company, Nintendo, have avoided the Deluxe-Redux-Substance path and your customers are happier for it. When I purchased The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker I was confident, based on your track record, that there was not going to be a Special Edition waiting eight months down the road, which is something that I as a movie collector wish I could know every time I bought a DVD. The movie market is even more vicious than the game industry when it comes to “double-dipping." Very soon I may have to buy yet another DVD of Dracula, something I'm getting tired of doing. But there is something that's even worse for a movie collector than double-dipping: sometimes there are two versions of the same movie released on DVD around the same time but with different special features. This is a rare occurrence and usually only happens when more than one company has the rights to release a movie on DVD – it is almost never the fault of a malicious studio. Please hear me: I would never call you malicious, Nintendo. But as improper as this decision would be in the movie world, it does feel as though you have made this decision with Zelda on Wii.

So far the only credible excuse thrown around for the lack of GameCube control on the Wii version of Zelda is that the Wii hardware simply doesn't allow it. The rumor is that when a GameCube disc is in the system the GameCube controller ports work, but when a Wii disc is inside the system the GameCube ports turn off. This theory, I assume propagated by fanboys, has been debunked by your very own official magazine, as reported by the blog Nintendo Wii Fanboy in a news post about future Wii title Rampage: Total Destruction. According to the Fanboy, Nintendo Power has stated that Rampage will allow the player to choose between Wii control and GameCube control. This is all without mentioning that Masahiro Sakurai, your Smash Bros. main man, advised us at E3 not to throw away our GameCube controllers when we get Super Smash Bros. Brawl on Wii. With both of these details considered, it seems to me that you don't have any excuses left: you have gone out of your way to emphasize that the two versions of Twilight Princess are identical in gameplay and you are confident enough in the two control schemes that you are releasing the game with both on the same day. If the statement in Nintendo Power is to be trusted, then there are no technical limitations preventing GameCube control that the consumer could fathom. If you're leaving it out due to limited space on the DVD or some complex programming issue, I kindly ask that you say so. Otherwise, we will have to assume that you are leaving GameCube control out deliberately, a choice that is still confusing to all of us.

If Twilight Princess on Wii had GameCube controls it would definitely be considered the preferred version, not to mention sell more. The only people who would buy the GameCube version would be those reticent to purchase a Wii at all. You have made the GameCube version enticing, though, by telling us that it is still the full Zelda experience while retaining that classic mode of control that you innovated way back for Ocarina of Time. This control method is often imitated - it has been the de facto standard for 3-D adventure games ever since Ocarina was released. Some Zelda gamers are wary of the Wii control scheme based on E3 reports and forcing them to choose between the two does not relieve their tensions. One method must be better than the other, but with two versions of the game available how do we decide? By leaving GameCube control out of Twilight Princess you are shifting sales from the Wii version to the GameCube version, perhaps with the hope that some will “double-dip" and purchase both. Of course I believe it is foolish to purchase both since past Zelda games have offered incentive to play the game twice, and as far as we know there is not a way to transfer your saved game from the Wii to the GameCube version. Despite this, I must admit that as a completist I feel compelled to purchase both versions as well, but in the end I will only purchase one at full price on ethical grounds alone.

If you really want to play hardball Nintendo, then go ahead. It is obvious you have faith in the Wii version so much that you don't want players to even have the option to play Zelda the old fashioned way. You want Zelda on Wii to be definitive, as I do. I think it is ironic, though, that in your efforts to prove the Wii version definitive you may be driving people away from it, thinning sales for one of your flagship Wii launch titles. By exalting one control method over another but making both available separately, you ensure that there will not be a definitive version of Twilight Princess at all; we will have two separate and distinct Zelda games that each have their own allure. I myself am torn and disappointed that I have to make this choice.

Your Fan,


Evan Burchfield



Talkback

PopeRealAugust 28, 2006

I think the Wii version is the definitive Zelda. If there is one thing we can count on, is that Nintendo will not release a new Zelda with crappy Wii controls. This will be a major showcase for the system, and they know they have to get this right. If they don't, it is a very bad sign and the Wii will be in a lot of trouble. After all, if the big N can't get it right, then no one will. I have faith that everything will be fine.

Infernal MonkeyAugust 28, 2006

The GameCube version. So far we've heard nothing about the graphics being updated for Wii (aside from widescreen), and the Wii exclusive 'puzzles' will more than likely be out of place tacked on junk like WHACK A MOLE.

PopeRealAugust 28, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
The GameCube version. So far we've heard nothing about the graphics being updated for Wii (aside from widescreen), and the Wii exclusive 'puzzles' will more than likely be out of place tacked on junk like WHACK A MOLE.


Do you really think Nintendo will put "tacked on junk" in a brand new Zelda which also happens to be launching with a new system? If they do it will spell more than disaster for the Wii version of Twilight Princess, it spells disaster for the Wii.

MarioAugust 28, 2006

Quote

Do you really think Nintendo will put "tacked on junk" in a brand new Zelda which also happens to be launching with a new system?

Well they've already put those Wii controls in, so yes... face-icon-small-happy.gif

Great editorial! I feel the same way and could end up passing on both versions.

PopeRealAugust 28, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Mario
Quote

Do you really think Nintendo will put "tacked on junk" in a brand new Zelda which also happens to be launching with a new system?

Well they've already put those Wii controls in, so yes... face-icon-small-happy.gif

Great editorial! I feel the same way and could end up passing on both versions.


If the Wii controls turn out to be tacked on junk, we should all pass on the Wii, just not Zelda. Afterall, the Wii controls are what set this system apart from others.

ShyGuyAugust 28, 2006

Dear Evan,

I hope you've never owned a Gameboy. Every time I get the definitive one, a new and improved model comes out.

"torn and dissapointed" lol emo face-icon-small-wink.gif

Ahh, the perils of choice.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

PaleMike Gamin, Contributing EditorAugust 28, 2006

Too true Kairon, too true. >.>

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorAugust 28, 2006

You know what gets me? People complain about Zelda being multi-platform and yet no one complains that Madden, Sonic, Call of Duty or whatever other game is multi-platform. Sure, the Wii version of TP is going to offer things that the GCN version doesn't, but hey, Madden 07 for XBox 360 feautres online play and the GCN version doesn't.

I mean, Nintendo's kind of in a dammed if they do, dammed if they don't kinda situation. They could have scrapped the GCN version all together or never have made the Wii version to begin with, but either way, one of the two groups gets screwed (those who want Wii controls and those who don't)... and that's just not fair to them.

So, then, you get to the subject to this editorial - should Nintendo offer a version that has both GCN and Wii controls in it for one low price? Well, aside from the fact that Nintendo probably will offer some kind of Collector's Edition to start out with, why should they? Does EA offer a Collector's Edition of Madden with GCN, DS, GBA, PS2, PSP, XBox and XBox 360 versions all in one?

And don't give me that crap about Nintendo being above that... For a company that's pulled crap like Pokémon Blue and Pokémon Red, I think we all know better.

Well, I've got to go now. I've spoken bad about Nintendo, so I have to give myself 30 lashings.

PaleMike Gamin, Contributing EditorAugust 28, 2006

My problem with everyone's argument is the assumption that because Nintendo isn't telling them every little detail about the reason for the decision, that means they are doing it just to money grub. Buying both versions is just silly. There are plenty of other possibilties for the decision.

Also. The Wii controls are better anyway so who really cares?

BigJimAugust 28, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Pale

Also. The Wii controls are better anyway so who really cares?


Zuhhh, wow it's almost like staff trolling. face-icon-small-tongue.gif

1. How many people played the newly re-tooled/refined Wii version, and
2. How many people played the GameCube version?

What we have in the classic controller format is spectacular, IMO. It's highly questionable to draw any conclusion from outdated Wii controls and zero experience with the GCN version. Though we at least have some idea how the GCN version will work.

Anyway, when I first started reading the letter, it sounded like "Nintendo owes us something." (They owe us nothing.) Then it seeks a definitive choice... There is no bait-and-switch or upsell (except to Wii). We know the differences are minor. We can make a somewhat educated choice right now.

But making them separate SKUs was a dumb idea, especially since they're virtually the same game with Miyamoto deciding to speak for everybody that Zelda fans don't look for graphic improvements. How true. People don't EXPECT next-gen graphics from next-gen systems. Only a moron would have that expectation. (yes that's sarcasm)

GoldenPhoenixAugust 28, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Pale
My problem with everyone's argument is the assumption that because Nintendo isn't telling them every little detail about the reason for the decision, that means they are doing it just to money grub. Buying both versions is just silly. There are plenty of other possibilties for the decision.

Also. The Wii controls are better anyway so who really cares?


Yeah for Pale, this whole "open letter" seems to be yet another example of people whining without seeing the final product. So you have to choose which version of Zelda you want, so what? Like another poster said that happens all the time, you just have to decide what has the most pros versus cons when deciding which version. Also to those that are saying they may not buy Zelda, that is probaly the most ridiculous thing I've heard. Chances are quite high that the game will be amazing for BOTH Wii and GameCube, it has even been in development for a long time even longer than OOT. Throwing hissy fits because you have to choose which version you want to get is childish, get over it and enjoy what may be the best Zelda ever.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterAugust 28, 2006

Just what we needed, even more whining and bitching about Twilight Princess on Wii...

I agree with Unclebob. This is basically a lose/lose move in which fans will bitch at Nintendo no matter what they end up doing. If they completely scrapped the GC version in order to create a Wii version, fans will bitch because they didn't get to play TP as it was originally was. If they release both the Wii version and the GC version, fans will bitch about buying both versions, And I'm pretty sure that if they released the Wii version with optional GC controls they will bitch about how the Wii were tacked on at the last minute.

Honestly, you guys are making mountains out of molehills. Like many of us have stated, Nintendo isn't that dumb that they would screw what could be the most anticipated Zelda game since Ocarina of time. They KNOW that fans are eagerly awaiting for this game as Wind waker was not able to please gamers the same way Ocarina of time and Majora's mask did, so they are going all out with Twilight Princess.

Just let it go. Wait for the game to be released, pick up whicever version you want, play ALL THE WAY THROUGH then come to a conclusion about the game. I think you'll sleep better that way face-icon-small-wink.gif .

mantidorAugust 28, 2006

this is not a lose/lose situation, if Nintendo had decided not to do this wii version I asure you that at worst, some fanboy would speculate how TP with remote might work and thats it, NO ONE would be mad or whiny, at all, maybe slightly dissapointment in rare cases.

Personally I dont give a crap about the wii version so I don't care about the lack of GC controls for it, I have to be thankful that at least they didn't scrap completly the GC original. And yes, even if that version had GC controls I would still buy the other one, and yes, Im very interested in the new console, believe it or not, I have high hopes for Corruption, and Galaxy looks to be awesome, as well as many third party games, something that was really surprising. But this decision about Zelda is the worst possible idea ever in my eyes.

As to why they remove GC controls from the wii version is obvious the possibility of many people buying both was important, its naive to think is not, and as silly as many of you believe it is to buy both, theres plenty of fans that will do it. Some may think that both versions ended up being radically different and can't be played with the other controls, but Nintendo also said that both were identical, so its not a sure thing. Its still a posibility, is not the first time Nintendo outright lied about this game anyway.

NephilimAugust 28, 2006

makes me wonder if n64 players were upset OOT didnt use the same controls as the nes games

PryopizmStan Ferguson, Staff AlumnusAugust 28, 2006

When a person ignores that the kernel of the complaint is Nintendo double-dipping without providing a single definitive experience, and, instead, build a straw man argument, it's very easy to make someone appear foolish. Of course, anyone who has bothered to read the article (agree or disagree) will see through it immediately and find out quickly who the foolish one is.

SarailAugust 28, 2006

Geez, Evan...

You sure have been whining a LOT as of late. Starting to get old, man. Yes, indeed.

Athrun ZalaAugust 28, 2006

I don't really see a problem with this

First, if the game had remained thus far a GC only game, it would've been moved to Wii anyways....you know why? because they wanted to make TP even BETTER than OoT, which has been clasified as the BEST GAME EVER by basically every person that walks the Earth, and that CAN'T be done in just 2 years (original release date). So the game would've been delayed (it's Nintendo we are talking about....) which in the end would've been unfavorable to Nintendo as the GC is pretty much dead, and the only pleased ones would've been the hardcore fans.
Second, they tried to please everyone by not cancelling the GC one (to keep their promise and such) and releasing a modified version for the Wii to boost sales, get more revenue and a better launch lineup.
Thirdly, Nintendo would be heavily criticized/flamed/whatever if they cancelled one of the 2 SKUs now, and they have to at least have one incentive for the GC version (classic controller and not needing a new console).
And finally, Nintendo is running a BUSINESS here, they WILL TRY to get more profits when they can.....that's just how business works and that can't be changed for now.

Another thing is that I personally believe that they went for 2 SKU in the first place because the GC and Wii data couldn't fit on the same discs (remember that the puzzles and such have to be changed to fit the the new controller)

All in all, I'll get the Wii version, it's just a simple choice you have to make....it's not like your life will be a living hell because of it....
and remember that you DON'T HAVE to BUY BOTH versions, just find a friend who gets the other one, it's not that hard face-icon-small-wink.gif

GoldenPhoenixAugust 28, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
I don't really see a problem with this

First, if the game had remained thus far a GC only game, it would've been moved to Wii anyways....you know why? because they wanted to make TP even BETTER than OoT, which has been clasified as the BEST GAME EVER by basically every person that walks the Earth, and that CAN'T be done in just 2 years (original release date). So the game would've been delayed (it's Nintendo we are talking about....) which in the end would've been unfavorable to Nintendo as the GC is pretty much dead, and the only pleased ones would've been the hardcore fans.
Second, they tried to please everyone by not cancelling the GC one (to keep their promise and such) and releasing a modified version for the Wii to boost sales, get more revenue and a better launch lineup.
Thirdly, Nintendo would be heavily criticized/flamed/whatever if they cancelled one of the 2 SKUs now, and they have to at least have one incentive for the GC version (classic controller and not needing a new console).
And finally, Nintendo is running a BUSINESS here, they WILL TRY to get more profits when they can.....that's just how business works and that can't be changed for now.

Another thing is that I personally believe that they went for 2 SKU in the first place because the GC and Wii data couldn't fit on the same discs (remember that the puzzles and such have to be changed to fit the the new controller)

All in all, I'll get the Wii version, it's just a simple choice you have to make....it's not like your life will be a living hell because of it....
and remember that you DON'T HAVE to BUY BOTH versions, just find a friend who gets the other one, it's not that hard face-icon-small-wink.gif



Exactly, I think this descision falls under two things. Profit and trying to push a new control scheme. I think they want to force Wii gamers to use the new control scheme to prove a point, but if they want traditional they can get the GC version. It isn't really that confusing, if you are still concerned which version to get well wait for some hands on reviews on the final builds. Both games are the supposedly the same despite the different controls so I guess you are right there is not a "difinative" version but if they are both amazing games does it really matter that much it is what you prefer control wise.

MarioAugust 28, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: DeadlyD
makes me wonder if n64 players were upset OOT didnt use the same controls as the nes games

Makes me wonder how on earth OoT would be possible on SNES

wanderingAugust 28, 2006

I am also worried that there will be no definitive Zelda - but for a different reason. Oh, I'd like both control schemes included in the Wii version, don't get me wrong (and if Evan's or other's complaints helped bring that about, that'd be swell.) But what I worry about is that neither the Wii nor the GameCube version will be ideal. And, if that turns out to be the case, giving me an option between the two versions when I boot up my Zelda Wii disc wouldn't make much of a difference.

GoldenPhoenixAugust 28, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
I am also worried that there will be no definitive Zelda - but for a different reason. Oh, I'd like both control schemes included in the Wii version, don't get me wrong (and if Evan's or other's complaints helped bring that about, that'd be swell.) But what I worry about is that neither the Wii nor the GameCube version will be ideal. And, if that turns out to be the case, giving me an option between the two versions when I boot up my Zelda Wii disc wouldn't make much of a difference.


I think that both versions will be great! Like I said the game was in development for about as long as Zelda OOT before the Wii version was even considered. That along with it being based on the Wind Waker engine, I just don't see any of these worries of it lacking being credible! They've had about an additional year to polish things up and add Wii control, so all I can say is I can't wait face-icon-small-smile.gif

The TravellerAugust 28, 2006

I think that since they have changed the controls since E3 it will work much better. Using the sword with the wiimote wont get tiring, I see it working only on the vertical and horizontal slashes. So you could easily dip it up and down and move it left and right slightly.

Anyway thats not the point. Why hasnt anyone brought up the possibility of using the Wii's "Normal" controller?

IceColdAugust 28, 2006

As far as I am concerned, this is a tired, tired argument. I hope it falls asleep from exhaustion soon.. When Wii controls were first rumoured (a hell of a long time ago), I wrote long-winded posts about how I was against them being implemented, as I was worried about the negative effects stemming from the decision. When they were finally confirmed, I was disappointed, but I have gotten over it since. There's nothing we can do, and I'm sick of all the discussion about it. Sure, this won't be the true Zelda built exclusively with the Wii in mind, utilising the controls and the hardware to their fullest extent. But it will still be a damn good game, and the controls will be fine. There were mixed impressions from E3; some glowing, some biting. I have decided to not let any one of them influence me.. Playing a game with a whole new control method, especially one which is so familiar on other controls, can't be easy. This is even truer at E3, where there is so much pressure, and the environment is far from comfortable. I remember when I first used the N64 analogue stick, I hated it. I just couldn't control it well, after years of playing with a D-Pad. This is a similar situation, except even more accentuated.

I am going to wait until the final build of TP gets into the hands of the media. When people actually have time to adapt to the controls under suitable conditions, we'll see what the impressions are then. At this point of time, I would take Miyamoto's word over any single person's experience with the game at E3. I've said this before; if there's anyone who can pull this off, Nintendo can.

NephilimAugust 28, 2006

"Makes me wonder how on earth OoT would be possible on SNES"

well downloadable content isnt available on gamecube, yet is on wii

GoldenPhoenixAugust 28, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: IceCold
As far as I am concerned, this is a tired, tired argument. I hope it falls asleep from exhaustion soon.. When Wii controls were first rumoured (a hell of a long time ago), I wrote long-winded posts about how I was against them being implemented, as I was worried about the negative effects stemming from the decision. When they were finally confirmed, I was disappointed, but I have gotten over it since. There's nothing we can do, and I'm sick of all the discussion about it. Sure, this won't be the true Zelda built exclusively with the Wii in mind, utilising the controls and the hardware to their fullest extent. But it will still be a damn good game, and the controls will be fine. There were mixed impressions from E3; some glowing, some biting. I have decided to not let any one of them influence me.. Playing a game with a whole new control method, especially one which is so familiar on other controls, can't be easy. This is even truer at E3, where there is so much pressure, and the environment is far from comfortable. I remember when I first used the N64 analogue stick, I hated it. I just couldn't control it well, after years of playing with a D-Pad. This is a similar situation, except even more accentuated.

I am going to wait until the final build of TP gets into the hands of the media. When people actually have time to adapt to the controls under suitable conditions, we'll see what the impressions are then. At this point of time, I would take Miyamoto's word over any single person's experience with the game at E3. I've said this before; if there's anyone who can pull this off, Nintendo can.


Great post Ice, I do think the best thing EVERYONE can do is wait until people are able to get their hands on the final build. Could Nintendo be double dipping? Perhaps but all that means is you better be careful what you choose, it isn't that hard and gamers have been doing that for quite awhile with multiplatform games with some versions missing some features.

PaleMike Gamin, Contributing EditorAugust 29, 2006

I'm not trolling. With all the negativity around this game its just important to me to point out that not everyone feels the same. Evan's opinion is legitimate and there are probably more readers who agree with him than readers who agree with me.

Again, all I'm saying is that not everyone on staff hated the controls at E3.

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorAugust 29, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Pryopizm
When a person ignores that the kernel of the complaint is Nintendo double-dipping without providing a single definitive experience, and, instead, build a straw man argument, it's very easy to make someone appear foolish. Of course, anyone who has bothered to read the article (agree or disagree) will see through it immediately and find out quickly who the foolish one is.


Again, as I said in my post, no one complains that EA Sports releases different, multiple versions of the same game across different consoles.

For a company that released 15-20 year old games, individually, at $20 each with (virtually) no new content, it's hard for me to understand why anyone thinks Nintendo would be above this "double dipping".

Outside of that, I don't really see this as "double dipping", per say. First, each game is made for a different system - one is designed for play on the GameCube and one is only for the Wii. Did anyone ever complain of "double dipping" when a movie studio would release a movie on VHS and DVD at the same time? Second, Nintendo is being pretty upfront about two different versions - it's not as if they're releasing the GCN version, then three months later, popping out the Wii version.

GoldenPhoenixAugust 29, 2006

I was thinking that maybe it is possible that the Wii version does have some slightly different puzzles that are only Wiimote compatible, that would be a legitimate reason not to have GC controls in it.

KDR_11kAugust 29, 2006

Or different combat balancing. Just minor changes to the gameplay can be a reason to ditch the GC controls since the game wouldn't play the same on the GC and Wii anyway.

Maybe it'll be like the rumble pack with Ocarina, where if you have it you'll feel a rumble as a clue - an extra feature that's there if you have the Wiimote, but doesn't directly affect the story. But with the amount of extra dev time involved with this one, there has to be extra content (e.g. more puzzles) in the Wii version.

This is a unique situation. Nintendo needed a reason to make people buy Wii, and since the GameCube is dying, it made perfect sense to move what would have been the biggest Cube game ever over to Wii. And if you're going to move it over to the Wii, you might as well take the time to add extra stuff that's Wii-exclusive, including the control scheme. It's a showpiece game, so Nintendo has to make it a showpiece for everything Wii has to offer, especially the control scheme. I can see why they dropped GC controls...why have them in there? Why not force people to use Wii the way it's supposed to be used, to get the whole experience? Don't let them cop out by using GC controls, that accomplishes nothing for Nintendo's mission.

This is just like Wind Waker. Before that released, people were up in arms and acting like it was going to outright suck. When everything was said and done, it turned out to be a GREAT game.

And yeah, I played Zelda at E3, and thought that the controls were fine. Aiming with the bow and arrow was too difficult, but nothing that couldn't be solved with a few more months of polish.

Ian SaneAugust 29, 2006

"You know what gets me? People complain about Zelda being multi-platform and yet no one complains that Madden, Sonic, Call of Duty or whatever other game is multi-platform. Sure, the Wii version of TP is going to offer things that the GCN version doesn't, but hey, Madden 07 for XBox 360 feautres online play and the GCN version doesn't."

Actually we did complain about that, like three years ago. It just isn't talked about much anymore because the Cube is nearly done anyway.

My beef is the whole thing about the Cube controls supposedly not working. That just sounds like a flat out LIE because the SSB guy suggested otherwise. Plus using needless limitations YOU put in your own hardware as an excuse is pretty weak. There's an obvious incentive in trying to get people to buy two versions. We've got a motive, a wishy-washy contridiction, and a company that has a reputation for jerking people around. That just makes it a little hard to believe this whole Zelda stuff is innocent.

And those wishing this argument will go away, sadly it never will. We still talk about Wind Waker's graphics. With two versions there will always be discussion about which version is better and that will respark this argument again.

Karl Castaneda #2August 29, 2006

Hey, it's funny, Ian - since you came back from vacation, you seem a lot more laid back. When I read your posts, I don't get a stressed-out voice in my head anymore. It's nice.

As for this issue, I haven't played either version, so I'm not qualified to say which one's going to be better. Soley based on what I've seen, I want to try out the Wii version first. I've played Zelda on the GameCube - I know what to expect there. On the Wii, though - that's a new adventure. Maybe it'll rock, maybe not, but I'm willing to take that chance.

UltimatePartyBearAugust 29, 2006

I have trouble ascribing this just to greed. I think the Zelda development team is full of creative people, and it's quite possible that they wanted to use the Wii controller from the moment they started thinking about the possibilities. The two versions would then be a compromise that lets the team do what they want while still fulfilling the promise of another Zelda for the GameCube.

On the other hand, it's a fact that Nintendo is greedy. I tend not to view that as evil, though. Murder is evil. Rape is evil. Taking advantage of your customers' fanaticism and collecting impulse is just business.

Ian SaneAugust 29, 2006

"I can see why they dropped GC controls...why have them in there? Why not force people to use Wii the way it's supposed to be used, to get the whole experience? Don't let them cop out by using GC controls, that accomplishes nothing for Nintendo's mission."

Doesn't that suggest a sign of weakness though? Why would people "cop out" if using the motion controls truly was the better way to play it? If these new controls really are the big deal they're being promoted as then it shouldn't matter. People will pick the new controls because they're supposedly more exciting, more inviting, and more fun. Supposedly people are to be naturally attracted to them. I think not including the old scheme shows a lack of a confidence in the new control scheme, like they have to avoid people making direct comparisons between the old and the new. A really great new control scheme should be so good that direct comparisons should be welcome because the new one is just going to cream the old one.

The thing is the "cop out" is still there, it's just that people have to buy a different version to cop out. I'd argue that's worse because someone who doesn't want to try the new controls won't because they'll buy a version that doesn't offer them. If one version had both control schemes then even the skeptics would probably try the motion control method just because it's there and they're curious. But with this they either have to take the plunge or play it safe.

NinGurl69 *hugglesAugust 29, 2006

I'll get both versions and tell you about the differences next July, mmkay guys? THAT'LL SOLVE EVERYTHING, RIGHT?

Really.

Really, the Wii version is the definitive one simply because I think it will ultimately sell *MUCH* better than the GameCube version. It is the one people will be TALKING about, since that's the one they'll HAVE.

The GameCube has an insignificant, horrible so-called "fanbase". What incentive is there to continue supporting the dead system? Will all those late adopters who picked up Super Smash Bros. Melee for $20 throw their weight behind TP-GC? Will the early GameCube adopters, thirsting for a new console, take a few steps back and fall down a generation of stairs to buy a game designed for the previous system? I'm not even going to make the assumption that the early GC adopters are "hardcore" Nintendo fans, cuz looking at sales for titles such as Pikmin 1/2, StarFox Assault, and Metroid Prime 2 (heck, RE4), it doesn't seem like there's enough "early adopter fans" available/living/breathing/internetting to care for a severely delayed last-gen game in the presence of an upgraded version on a new system they ALREADY PLANNED to buy (cuz you know, they're so-called early adopter hardtime longcore Nintendo playing Pokemon graduates).

PaleMike Gamin, Contributing EditorAugust 29, 2006

I don't think it's a lack of confidence Ian. I think Nintendo understands the fact that the controls are significantly different than anything gamers are used to. There is a learning curve to the the new scheme. There is probably a certain concern that new players will jump off that curve too early, damming the new scheme before they truly understand it. Having both control modes would allow for just such a situation.

The reason why I liked TP so much at E3 was because it did still control in the most classic sense. The pointing was just used in parts where pointing made sense. This has changed slightly since the cryptic talk that they are putting all sword control into the motion sensing now. That right there proves that NO ONE has played the Zelda game as it will be when it delivers.

If people are this concerned about enjoying the Wii version with the fancy controls, maybe they should start being concerned over whether they will like the Wii at all, seeing as, in many ways, those things are one and the same.

NinGurl69 *hugglesAugust 29, 2006

I see Pale is successfully holding back the launch of PlanetWhiineCube.com

Ian SaneAugust 29, 2006

"If people are this concerned about enjoying the Wii version with the fancy controls, maybe they should start being concerned over whether they will like the Wii at all, seeing as, in many ways, those things are one and the same."

Admittingly I have been concerned about that from day one.

I'm amused by the suggestions that we should just wait until it's out before discussing the merits of either version. What do you think we do at this site, honestly? Nintendo wants the games to be discussed early...that's why they let us play the games before they are finished. Yes, you have to temper many arguments with the fact that the games are not finished and that we have played only a fraction of them, but that doesn't mean the discussion is worthless.

KDR_11kAugust 29, 2006

I think if they changed some mechanics for the Wii version allowing GC controls would break the game. E.g. the counter system in Wind Waker was too damn easy to use, what if they now expect you to perform the counter yourself and actually guide the sword to hit the weakpoint for MASSIVE DAMAGE instead of simply pressing "dodge and hit weak point"? What if enemies have more complex attack patterns in the Wii version that require faster actions to defend against? What if they tried to remove context-sensitive button hotspots completely so you'd have to notice a mechanism without the game telling you "hey, you can use that!"?

Bill AurionAugust 29, 2006

I can't wait for the actual game that everyone will be playing, regardless of what version they purchase...The end...

mantidorAugust 29, 2006

"If people are this concerned about enjoying the Wii version with the fancy controls, maybe they should start being concerned over whether they will like the Wii at all, seeing as, in many ways, those things are one and the same."

I disagree, Im not concerned about the other games, hell even madden sounds interesting, which is a huge achievement. Its analog to what happen with Mario 64 DS, I never was interested in the game at all for a similar reason, but that doesnt mean the other games for the DS sucked when I finally played them.

SvevanEvan Burchfield, Staff AlumnusAugust 29, 2006

Although I appreciate thoughtful discussion on all sides of this issue, I wanted to throw out one thing: I was not intending yet another Wii vs. GC controls debate. The quality of the Wii controls is unknowable now, and I await the chance to play the game again with a fresh outlook. The main point is whether Nintendo should encourage us to buy the Wii version when they are leaving out a separate version of the game they have already developed and are releasing separately. They want the Wii version to be definitive, but they're not proving it with their actions - indeed their actions will lead people away from the "ultimate" Zelda and towards its bastard (read: classic) brother.

Some excellent points about learning curve and the risk of including both control methods in the game were made, and I agree: if Nintendo includes both schemes on the Wii disc, it is possible that players would discard Wii controls before they master them and resort to the familiar GC controls. But these people will have the opportunity in the future to play the Wii version for no extra cost, and this could ingratiate the Remote to them. In contrast, under Nintendo's current plan to release two separate versions, those who out of fear purchase the GC version instead of the Wii version will not have the same opportunity. Also, a Zelda game originally engineered for GameCube should not be the make-or-break Wii game, but Nintendo has set it up that way.

Finally, a point that I chose not to include in the editorial: there are 21 million GameCubes out there right now but only 5 million Wiis are promised before the end of 2006. With a Zelda game of this magnitude I think Nintendo is hoping TP will outsell Wii machines, which will only happen if they sell a ton of copies for GameCube as well. Perhaps Nintendo is making sure that Zelda sells on BOTH systems, discarding the idea of a definitive version and making each version separate and valuable for their respective audiences.

And finally, to everyone: forgive my drama and constant complaining. It is not my intention to be the staff whiner, but it has been my action and that's not appropriate.

PryopizmStan Ferguson, Staff AlumnusAugust 29, 2006

Damn you, Evan! You stole our thunder!

Darn you Evan! Why do you have to be all perfect and everything! Just when we thought we'd found achink in your armor and would have just cause to villify you, you go all logical and sensible and level-headed on us!

Oh no, you're not getting away that easy! One of these days you'll slip up, and then LIKE HOUNDS we'll be on you!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Quote

Originally posted by: Svevan
And finally, to everyone: forgive my drama and constant complaining. It is not my intention to be the staff whiner, but it has been my action and that's not appropriate.


You're not to blame; that's just how you talk.

BigJimAugust 29, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Pale
If people are this concerned about enjoying the Wii version with the fancy controls, maybe they should start being concerned over whether they will like the Wii at all, seeing as, in many ways, those things are one and the same.


Hence my adoption of Wii60. Whether intentional or by accident, they're gonna be a second console.

Perhaps the problem is Nintendo's lack of sufficient communication to make the case for the new control scheme in the first place. It's becoming apparent that they need the new controller more than we do. The more I think about the 2 different Zelda controls, the more I think neither one will be particularly better than the other. They'll both be good so we could be happy with either one. So the controller very quickly becomes "Meh". It's Cocoa Pebbles now with more chocolatey flavor, but it still tastes the same.

Edit: With exception to the few new types of games that might crop up strictly due to point/movement capability, and not just replacing buttons with movement.

MarioAugust 29, 2006

Quote

If people are this concerned about enjoying the Wii version with the fancy controls, maybe they should start being concerned over whether they will like the Wii at all, seeing as, in many ways, those things are one and the same.

Not at all. I'm massively excited about games that use the Wii controller properly, like Rayman and Wario Ware.

18 DaysAugust 29, 2006

sparkling innovations

Quote

Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
You're not to blame; that's just how you talk.


hahaha brilliant.

IceColdAugust 29, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Jonnyboy117
I'm amused by the suggestions that we should just wait until it's out before discussing the merits of either version. What do you think we do at this site, honestly? Nintendo wants the games to be discussed early...that's why they let us play the games before they are finished. Yes, you have to temper many arguments with the fact that the games are not finished and that we have played only a fraction of them, but that doesn't mean the discussion is worthless.
Well, as I said in my other post, this is a completely different situation than most impressions. It's a radically different control scheme for a franchise that we have played with traditional controls for a long, long time. Of course it will be hard to adjust to the new interface. That's why we should wait for the final build and for the media to spend more time on it before making a decision.

Aussie Ben PGCBen Kosmina, Staff AlumnusAugust 29, 2006

Hey Evan, interesting editorial. I don't really agree with all of it, but the whole point of an editorial is to voice your opinon, correct? :P And besides, it's done what it's supposed to do: stir up conversation. So here's my two cents.

Nintendo is as guilty as everyone else when it comes to double dipping. Link's Awakening = Link's Awakening DX. Link to the Past = Link to the Past GBA. If it's felt that those don't count due to the added content, then how about the NES Classics - full price for a NES game that's about 8K in size. When Nintendo does it, they excel at it. The only difference with these games is that they were not released simultaneously as the originals, which is the case with Twilight Princess.

I do agree that there is no conceivable reason as to why the Wii version should not support the GameCube controller, especially when third-party titles are quite capable of doing so. I mean, really, RAMPAGE will do it, but not Zelda? Blush. I guess Nintendo feels really confident about the Wii version, eh?

And to those saying "Oh I'm totally not buying this Zelda since they said they would be doing this", I call bullcrap on that! You are most likely the hardcore Nintendo fans. You haven't played a new Zelda game for three years. Nintendo doesn't even NEED to promote this game to you, because you already know about it. You sell the game on your own - there is no way that you won't play the latest Zelda game. Even if you don't buy it right away (doubtful), you'll buy it later.

But really though, if this frightening new control system is bothering you, why not just purchase the GameCube version and play it on your Wii, which is backwards compatible with GameCube games anyway?

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorAugust 30, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Aussie Ben PGC
then how about the NES Classics - full price for a NES game that's about 8K in size. When Nintendo does it, they excel at it.


Well, to be fair, they wern't released at full price...

Aussie Ben PGCBen Kosmina, Staff AlumnusAugust 30, 2006

Maybe not in YOUR country. :-P

GuyAugust 30, 2006

It's an okay letter--a little nerdy at times, a little sobby at others--but it's written in the neutral, straightforward, and patronizing manner to which companies respond. I think it'll be a success and provoke a lengthy reply (provided Nintendo knows where it's coming from). Good job.

Ian SaneAugust 30, 2006

"Also, a Zelda game originally engineered for GameCube should not be the make-or-break Wii game, but Nintendo has set it up that way."

I think this a great point. They probably should be promoting Metroid Prime 3 more as the flagship title since it's a major game AND isn't an enhanced Cube game. If I buy a Wii at launch it will be for THAT game, not Zelda.

In truth, they haven't started promoting anything much yet. I personally don't feel that they've hyped up Zelda much more than they have Metroid Prime. All we're really judging from is E3 2006.

Anyways, it would be ridiculous to not take advantage of the Zelda name. And since its a game that's simply so complete already, it's much much easier to show off comfortably than to take time away from other games to polish them up just for PR.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

PaleMike Gamin, Contributing EditorAugust 30, 2006

Well, they aren't really promoting anything right now. face-icon-small-wink.gif

ShyGuyAugust 30, 2006

Well, we've heard a good chunk of the staff and regulars weigh in on this. Now I only have one question: What does Bloodworth think? Where's he been anyway?

PaleMike Gamin, Contributing EditorAugust 30, 2006

He just got back from a long vacation of sorts. Not sure if he's caught up in the forums yet.

NinGurl69 *hugglesAugust 30, 2006

21 million GameCubes sold, huh?

Only 300,000 GameCube "users" will care to buy it, worldwide, at most. So much for using Zelda to die in style. The userbase does not exist, most of the units were sold(as used) to Gamestop stores, more people will get it on Wii and wait for new Wii shipments when the Wii launch alotment run out, and 80% of the 300,000 GameCube buyers are already PGC visitors.

TP:GC is just a collector's item for people who maintain old hardware.

This is true.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Smoke39August 30, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Aussie Ben PGC
But really though, if this frightening new control system is bothering you, why not just purchase the GameCube version and play it on your Wii, which is backwards compatible with GameCube games anyway?

Because the GC version doesn't have widescreen?

control > graphics

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

UncleBobRichard Cook, Guest ContributorAugust 30, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Aussie Ben PGC
Maybe not in YOUR country. :-P


Ouch.

Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Also, a Zelda game originally engineered for GameCube should not be the make-or-break Wii game, but Nintendo has set it up that way."

I think this a great point. They probably should be promoting Metroid Prime 3 more as the flagship title since it's a major game AND isn't an enhanced Cube game. If I buy a Wii at launch it will be for THAT game, not Zelda.


You and about three other people. It's Metroid. While Metroid may have a decent following in the states, if I'm correct, it's never made much of a splash elsewhere. And even Metriod Prime 1 and 2 didn't do all that spectacularly well.

Personally, I like the fact that Nintendo isn't just marketing a single "make-or-break" game for the Wii, but plenty of future AAA titles.

wanderingAugust 30, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
'm not even going to make the assumption that the early GC adopters are "hardcore" Nintendo fans, cuz looking at sales for titles such as Pikmin 1/2, StarFox Assault, and Metroid Prime 2 (heck, RE4), it doesn't seem like there's enough "early adopter fans" available/living/breathing/internetting to care for a severely delayed last-gen game in the presence of an upgraded version on a new system they ALREADY PLANNED to buy (cuz you know, they're so-called early adopter hardtime longcore Nintendo playing Pokemon graduates).

Based on my brief time playing them and/or from what I've read, Pikmin 2, Star Fox Assualt and Metroid Prime 2 all pale in comparison to their originals. I don't own any of them. Is this proud owner of Eternal Darkness, Pikmin, Killer 7, Resident Evil 4 and Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes a former Nintendo fan? We report, you decide.

MarioAugust 30, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: Aussie Ben PGC
Maybe not in YOUR country. :-P

Not in Aus either, they were only $30.

ootlerAugust 30, 2006

I intend to buy the cube version because I'm poor.
For this reason I'm glad it's being released on two platforms.
Opinion is going to be divided I suppose as to which is the better version.
I imagine both will be good. Nintendo in-house stuff always is.
All the hysteria is a waste of time, as of course is my typing this comment.
However, it's 4:44am on my clock and I'm in the process of waiting to die.
Might as well do something futile as opposed to nothing, it's the essence of humanity.

EasyCureAugust 30, 2006

Quote

"I can see why they dropped GC controls...why have them in there? Why not force people to use Wii the way it's supposed to be used, to get the whole experience? Don't let them cop out by using GC controls, that accomplishes nothing for Nintendo's mission."

Doesn't that suggest a sign of weakness though? Why would people "cop out" if using the motion controls truly was the better way to play it? If these new controls really are the big deal they're being promoted as then it shouldn't matter. People will pick the new controls because they're supposedly more exciting, more inviting, and more fun. Supposedly people are to be naturally attracted to them. I think not including the old scheme shows a lack of a confidence in the new control scheme, like they have to avoid people making direct comparisons between the old and the new. A really great new control scheme should be so good that direct comparisons should be welcome because the new one is just going to cream the old one.

The thing is the "cop out" is still there, it's just that people have to buy a different version to cop out. I'd argue that's worse because someone who doesn't want to try the new controls won't because they'll buy a version that doesn't offer them. If one version had both control schemes then even the skeptics would probably try the motion control method just because it's there and they're curious. But with this they either have to take the plunge or play it safe.



this coming from someone who has stated multiple times that if nintendo decides to include optional GC controls into its games then it is sending the message that Wii controls might not be as revolutionary as they claim to be. which is it ian?

wanderingAugust 30, 2006

Quote

However, it's 4:44am on my clock and I'm in the process of waiting to die.
Might as well do something futile as opposed to nothing, it's the essence of humanity.

Go run around town naked. Right now.

IceColdAugust 30, 2006

Quote

Based on my brief time playing them and/or from what I've read, Pikmin 2, Star Fox Assualt and Metroid Prime 2 all pale in comparison to their originals.
How dare you say that Pikmin 2 paled when compared to it's predecessor?! It was basically a perfect sequel; the essence of the first game was intact, but there were lots more features and some minor flaws from the first game were corrected. Overall, it was just much better.. Metroid Prime 2 was also just as good as the first one, although it didn't, of course, have the same impression and impact as MP, which was the first 3D Metroid game. Technically, though, it was improved over Metroid Prime. And, in regards to Assault, are you talking about Adventures as its original? Because Adventures was terrible; it wasn't even close to a StarFox game. Assault was a better game if you think of what the StarFox franchise is supposed to represent..

Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
Quote

However, it's 4:44am on my clock and I'm in the process of waiting to die.
Might as well do something futile as opposed to nothing, it's the essence of humanity.

Go run around town naked. Right now.


And take pictures. lots of pictures.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

TrueNerdAugust 30, 2006

I certainly have not combed through all 75 posts in this thread, but I fail to see the hullabaloo about all of this nonsense.

The Wii version is the wild card here, obviously. I think worst case scenario is that the new controls fail to enhance the game, but the experience will not be ruined. Unless the Wii changes it's name to CD-i, Zelda will not be a broken game on the Wii.

Let's break it down.

What sounds better: Swinging the sword by swiping a controller or hitting a button?
What sounds better: Pulling off a spin attack by shaking a controller or holding down a button and releasing it?
What sounds better: Aiming your bow and arrow by pointing a controller or by moving an analog stick?

Clearly we all have an idea of what we think will be better and obviously there are other differences between the two versions, but the point remains:

Does either choice really sound that bad? And sound so bad that they will ruin a game in a franchise with an unblemished record?

I don't think it does.

I'm getting the Wii version for those reasons and because I'm pretty damn curious, but mostly because I am confident that the "bad" version of this game will still be better then just about every other game ever.

eljefeAugust 31, 2006

As an impartial observer, since I'm buying neither the GC nor Wii edition of TP, I think this debate is rather silly. That being said, the individuals who are upset that they won't be able to buy TP:Wii and have the GC-controls as an option are basically asking for two game for the price of one. Which is fine, anyone who wouldn't want more for their money is stupid. But think, are there unnavoidable reasons why Nintendo has polarized the Zelda fanbase?

What if, contrary to their PR-speak, TP:Wii is SO DRASTICALLY CUSTOMIZED for the nunchaku controls of Wii that it is UNPLAYABLE WITH THE GAMECUBE controller?

That is a crazy hypothesis...I hope its true just for the sake of having rad new controls for ALL Wii games (even ones I'm not going to purchase).


More likely they are polarizing fans just to see who has complete trust in Wii. In that respect this is no different than the NO HD debate (that applies to Hi-Def and Hard Drive).

Basically, Nintendo keeps forcing people to answer "Will you gamble with us?" For each issue it seems the same people have the same answer.

doubt vs trust
fear vs courage

did I over-analize that? yes, indeed..

KDR_11kAugust 31, 2006

I hope they did so much stuff that requires the new controller that the Wii version wouldn't be playable on the GC controller. At very least they'll change balancing so the faster aiming for ranged weapons won't make the game too easy.

Ian SaneAugust 31, 2006

"this coming from someone who has stated multiple times that if nintendo decides to include optional GC controls into its games then it is sending the message that Wii controls might not be as revolutionary as they claim to be. which is it ian?"

Let's go with what I said regarding Zelda. I think I've changed my opinion about it. Zelda is an odd example though because it's really a Cube game that has been brought over to the Wii. A game designed from the ground up for the remote shouldn't have GC controls because it should use the motion control so well that you couldn't play the game with the Cube controller.

"What sounds better: Swinging the sword by swiping a controller or hitting a button?
What sounds better: Pulling off a spin attack by shaking a controller or holding down a button and releasing it?
What sounds better: Aiming your bow and arrow by pointing a controller or by moving an analog stick?"

For the first two I'd pick the button one and for the third I'd pick motion control. The first two are just gestures and a button press is way more accurate and easier to do. Actually aiming with motion control is more like aiming with a mouse and would be more accurate. Sword swinging and spin attacks were easy as hell to pull off before while bow aiming while moving has always been wonky with the old method. There's room for improvement with the aiming anyway.

KDR_11kAugust 31, 2006

I don't think the sword attacks are going to be more difficult to execute, they might decide to offer more moves because the input allows for more easily inputtable combinations

wanderingAugust 31, 2006

Quote

How dare you say that Pikmin 2 paled when compared to it's predecessor?! It was basically a perfect sequel; the essence of the first game was intact, but there were lots more features and some minor flaws from the first game were corrected.

That's exactly why I think it's a horrible sequel. (Keep in mind I've only played it for a few minutes at a demo kiosk.) My idea of a perfect sequel is Majora's Mask: it takes the fundamental gameplay from the first game and then takes things in an interesting new direction. If they had done that with Pikmin 2 - if, say, the premise of the game is that you have to bring the Pikmin back to your home world to help with something, and now you're playing in an urban environment instead of a natural one- that would be great. But instead, Pikmin 2 is to Pikmin 1 what the American Office (tv series) is to the british version: just like the original version, except more, more, more! Which sounds great, until you realize that it isn't just like the original at all....because, as uncomfortably similiar as the rehash is, the magic and soul of the first has almost all gone.

Quote

And, in regards to Assault, are you talking about Adventures as its original?

No, talking about 64. (Keep in mind I haven't played Assualt at all.)

mantidorAugust 31, 2006

Pikmin 2 and MM are both perfect sequels. Pikmin 1 was flawed so it needed desperatly those changes, Ocarina was near perfect so it needed a new and interesting direction instead, to become... I don't know... uber perfect I guess.

IceColdAugust 31, 2006

Quote

Which sounds great, until you realize that it isn't just like the original at all....because, as uncomfortably similiar as the rehash is, the magic and soul of the first has almost all gone.
Maybe you should try playing Pikmin 2 some more; I assure you that is not the case..
Quote

No, talking about 64. (Keep in mind I haven't played Assualt at all.)
Ah. That explains it - I was confused because Pro was talking about how later Cube games sold worse than the earlier ones, and he referenced Star Fox, so I thought you were talking about Adventures, since you replied to him.. *breathe*

wanderingAugust 31, 2006

Quote

Maybe you should try playing Pikmin 2 some more; I assure you that is not the case..

As soon as it becomes player's choice.

...what's that? It is already? Pikmin 2 get!

KDR_11kSeptember 01, 2006

My idea of a perfect sequel is Majora's Mask: it takes the fundamental gameplay from the first game and then takes things in an interesting new direction.

People buy a sequel because they want more of the same, people buy a different game to play something else.

Ian SaneSeptember 01, 2006

A perfect sequel is one that gives you more of what you liked before but does so in a way that makes it feel fresh usually by adding new ideas or twisting things around a bit. Pikmin 2 fits this to a tee. A perfect series is one that is so good that each installment is an essential play even though sequels have topped it. Like with Zelda every game is worth playing and there's usually enough newness each time that it doesn't feel stale.

Bad sequels are stuff like Tony Hawk where it just feels like more levels and if you saw a screenshot from the sequel you might assume it was from the first game.

GoldenPhoenixSeptember 02, 2006

Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
That's exactly why I think it's a horrible sequel. (Keep in mind I've only played it for a few minutes at a demo kiosk.) My idea of a perfect sequel is Majora's Mask: it takes the fundamental gameplay from the first game and then takes things in an interesting new direction.


Ewwww Majora's Mask is not even close to being my favorite Zelda game, I rank it down at the bottom with Zelda 2. I'm usually not a fan of sequels but I think the best ones are the games that are like the previous in how they play but have fresh new enviroments, enemies, levels, along with other things.

You left your italics open, hurt my eyes, so I fixed it - Ed

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