Topic: Wii is so not hardcoreend

[Mario]

The problem with Matt is that he calls them out on stuff that isn't even wrong like the existance of Tingle and meaningless spec numbers, which upsets Nintendo fans like me who don't agree with his opinion and don't like that lots of people listen to it.

[The Omen]

Quote
TextAnd, just like Jeremy likes to point out, Sony is banking on the iPod people out there -- those bazillions of people who gladly pay upwards of 350 bucks for a music player."

Okay, did he really bring up Apple?  An apt comparison it is not.  There are many different types of Ipods varying in cost.  I can get a 30 gig IPOD right now for 239.99. I can get the shuffle for under $80.  A better comparison would be Apple computers.  The Mac is looked at as the greatest piece of tech ever.  Geeks love it.  Problem is COST.  Offering a superior product at twice the cost of a full featured PC means the market tends to go for the PC 80% of the time.  I believe Apple has less than 10% of the market.

So in that regard, since the PS3 will be over double the price of the Wii how can he really think it won't effect the market negatively for Sony?  Sure, some gamers can afford it, but most cannot.  Being an adult doesn't mean I want to spend my mortgage payment on a PS3.  In fact, these so called older gamers have a lot more bills in general.

This guy is very defensive, and as someone else said, it appears he's a tad bit worried.  

[jasonditz]

Well, the "twice the cost" thing isn't really the case anymore... Intel Macs are very sensibly priced (though there are no truly "low end" systems in the mix). The MacPro, for its hefty price tag, still is considerably cheaper than a comparably featured Dell.

Anyhow, I know that's not the point, but nearly all the Mac people I know have a DS, and many are already talking about the Wii. The people that are willing to "pay a little more" for their experience aren't just looking to pay more, they're looking for the experience, and if the experience they want is in the cheapest system, so much the better.

Mac people are an important gaming market for Nintendo and Sony to fight over (and IMO Nintendo's got a big edge in this regard) because:

* They/We have lots of disposable income which means we're the sort who are liable to end up with 50-100 games in a console's lifespan.
* We're generally not getting a great gaming experience on our computers.

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
The problem with Matt is that he calls them out on stuff that isn't even wrong like the existance of Tingle and meaningless spec numbers, which upsets Nintendo fans like me who don't agree with his opinion and don't like that lots of people listen to it.

The Tingle thing is a very poor example. That isn't a complaint in the serious sense, but more a fun campaign. Does he hate Tingle? Yes. So do half of the people who know who he is. Does he want him to die? Yes. Does he really CARE if he does? No.

And I don't know what you're referring to about specs. He had no complaints about the Wii specs, all he did was post them. If there's an issue with the specs then the issue is with Nintendo.

[Deguello]

Matt is just an irresponsible journalist.  He posted those spec numbers without any sort of source other than "unnamed third party developer" and since then those numbers have basically been debunked.

The addition of any sort of 16x9 progressive widescreen to any game has nothing to do with Matt's opinion at all.  That is a total non sequitir.  Matt also tried to influence the DS/PSP in a similar way, stating condescendingly that he wasn't even interested in handhelds before the PSP, and that Nintendo should up the specs or something.  Well, that's all well and good, but I bet he doesn't talk much about portables any more, if you know what I mean.

It must totally infuriate him when Nintendo is successful and they did it without taking his advice.  It's a daily reminder of just how little influence he really has.  He even campaigned to keep Smash Brothers in Japan because it was "too weird."  I mean seriously.

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Deguello
Matt is just an irresponsible journalist.  He posted those spec numbers without any sort of source other than "unnamed third party developer" and since then those numbers have basically been debunked.

The addition of any sort of 16x9 progressive widescreen to any game has nothing to do with Matt's opinion at all.  That is a total non sequitir.  Matt also tried to influence the DS/PSP in a similar way, stating condescendingly that he wasn't even interested in handhelds before the PSP, and that Nintendo should up the specs or something.  Well, that's all well and good, but I bet he doesn't talk much about portables any more, if you know what I mean.

It must totally infuriate him when Nintendo is successful and they did it without taking his advice.  It's a daily reminder of just how little influence he really has.  He even campaigned to keep Smash Brothers in Japan because it was "too weird."  I mean seriously.

LOL. None of this is true.

The specs were from the sheets given to developers at the time, not an unnamed nobody. They've been improved since, but were proven to be accurate. He posted them because there was a ton of speculation. He had no negative comments. One day you're complaining there's no news, next day you're peeved because it's not as powerful as the PS3.

Uhhh...Matt did influence one developer, check the mailbags. He's also heavily pushed it and mentioned it to Nintendo repeatedly. He's not influencing Nintendo there, he's influencing smaller developers who think no one cares. It's a good thing too, because we're talking about ADDING 16x9/pro. scan not removing a 4x3 mode.

He took back what he said about the DS. He doesn't talk about it much now, he has NEVER talked about portables much at all over the YEARS. But he has said several times since that he was wrong and the DS has turned out fantastically. So he was wrong? He thought the PSP looked better. He's not allowed to believe that?

I've never seen him mad about Nintendo not taken his advice. When they don't and they do well he's happy for them. When they don't and it turns out he's right he's sad. It's tough love, but it's love.

Can you please provide the Smash Bros. info in a link? I agree that would've been rather stupid, definitely. But that would've been 1997 or so? And once in 10 years isn't anything to crucify him for.

I just don't get the hatred for him. Have you people even read major gaming sites? He is by far the best section head of ANY major site. GameSpot? Crap. GameSpy? Crap. IGN everything else? Crap. He works endlessly for Nintendo fans and he loves Nintendo to no end. The difference? He doesn't lie, and he's not a fanboy.

Look at the comments that this thread was originally about. Is that how you want Nintendo fans to look? Always fanboy, always bashing other people? Making ignorant marks just to pimp your console no matter what? Heck, he admits to love big tech and super-graphics, but he's never ONCE criticized the Wii's power. He admitted he didn't know how Nintendo could make it work, but then before everyone came over at E3 he said he was sold. He loves the Wii.

I think we're lucky that the most influential Nintendo journalist is an honest one. Is he frustrating at times? Yeah. But he doesn't go around giving us a bad name. He's the best know of the IGN editors. Consider that. Who is the best known IGN editor? The Nintendo guy. We're bound to disagree with him on some things, naturally. I disagree with some PGC previews, reviews and editorials too. But if you actually look at the facts, and what he actually says, not these tired propagated stereotypes that have no bearing on reality, you'll see he loves Nintendo and he wants to give us as much info as possible and to see them do extraordinarily well.

[Kairon]

Matts not bad guys. In fact, he's pretty cool even.

It's just that he DOES work for an entertainment site called IGN, so there are obviously going to be some rough edges there, and he hasn't drunk the kool-aid.

Heck, Ian hasn't drunk the kool-aid, but we still love him, don't we!

Nintendo fanbois shouldn't discriminate on people who don't drink kool-aid. (And vice versa, non-kkol-aid drinkers shouldn't belittle us when we be-wii-ve!)

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Deguello]

"Uhhh...Matt did influence one developer, check the mailbags."

Is it so hard to get a name of one of these developers?  I mean seriously, everytime Matt enters a discussion, all third party names go unmentioned.  And is it possible to pony up a link?  And Seriously?  Do you honestly believe Matt has any say over any developer doing anything?  I mean like the developer saying "Oh gee, I wonder if we should do anything to this game, hey look Matt says he likes widescreen progressive scan!  We should appease him and thank heavens that he pointed out something that the GC could do to us, because we would have never figured that out for ourselves."  And of course he's disappointed when Nintendo doesn't listen to him.  Just listen to him harp on endlessly about voice acting in Zelda and how disappointed he is that it probably won't feature it.  Normally this would be inconsequential, but we are talking about a site the takes away points for not having any kart skins.  I mean seriously, it would be like I got a bug up my ass about Captain Falcon not being in F-Zero: Maximum Velocity and trashed the game because of it.  It's just not good journalism or good criticism.

The problem with the Specs story is that he presented them as final and allowed the "source" to throw out crap like "souped-up Xbox."  And I never complained for lack of news.  And if he did it because people complained for lack of news, that makes him even more irresponsible than I imagined.  You don't fabricate an incomplete and unresearched news story because it's a slow news day.

And his newfound silence about portables is SERIOUSLY why I dislike him.  He never even cared about handhelds UNTIL Sony made one to compete with Nintendo.  He even posted a stupid and inflammatory comment about a "top level Nintendo developer" sayign that they could get a better looking game of their GC game working on the PSP.  Do you know which "top level Nintendo developer" it was?  It was Saru Brunei and their GC game Cubivore.  I mean seriously, Cubivore.  The straight N64-to-GC port.  This metering of information makes him grossly irresponsible and disingenuous.  Then for 4 months he was all about the PSP, and now he doesn't talk about any of them anymore, basically because his predictions proved false, he lost his credibility on that issue and just slash-burned his way out of it.

I don't want Matt to be an insipid rah-rah fanboy, but it could help him out a lot if he was a better journalist.  You can't juxtapose This IGN Playstation goober to Matt and say we should thank our lucky stars that Matt isn't as bad as the other.  The IGN Playstation guy is an idiot, but Matt is not vindicated by him.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

Ouch Deguello that is harsh lol. Personally I like Matt, but I have never been a big fan of "Unnamed sources" whether it be a gaming site like IGN or any supposed inside information. One thing I do agree with him on is his push for developers to put in progressive scan, from what i heard it isn't that hard and since the Wii is at a small disadvantage without true HD capabilities I think companies should at least try to make the games look as good as possible!

[Kairon]

But yeah, Matt is an idiot sometimes. But this side of him has been coming out less and less lately. *sigh*

The only cure for that is kool-aid.

Edit: Matt's problem is that he's a hardcore gamer. Seriously. He likes Metroid. METROID! That's a game that isn't very casual friendly at all.

This is a problem because Matt might not understand that the future of Nintendo and videogames in general is not the hardcore gamer, but the blue ocean. It's not the big hardcore release, but the long tail.

Basically, Matt has always been a rough fit for Nintendo because he's becoming more and more of a Dinosaur type of gamer, and all of his pat vitriol for Nintendo has resulted from his difficulties adapting to this brve new world of gaming where he's more of a niche minority than a demigod.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[Ceric]

It is when they've signed an NDA.

[Deguello]

I just wonder sometimes if he does all that stupid stuff because he needs attention or if he is just bored.  If the former, he probably needs to get that fixed.  If the latter, he should do something else.

And the funny thing about the widescreen Progressive scan stuff is that Matt not only likes it, he wants Nintendo to FORCE DEVELOPERS to use it.  I mean seriously, he wants Nintendo to play god with third parties again, when their past relationships with some of them are tenuous already.

I think Matt is a fanboy, just a different type.  He's the Han Shot First, "they can never do anything right," "How lost they are without me" type that Star Wars has to endure.

[The Omen]

Quote
? Do you honestly believe Matt has any say over any developer doing anything? I mean like the developer saying "Oh gee, I wonder if we should do anything to this game, hey look Matt says he likes widescreen progressive scan! We should appease him and thank heavens that he pointed out something that the GC could do to us, because we would have never figured that out for ourselves."

Obviously, you don't understand what he's doing at all.  He's not telling them what to do.  And no, they wouldn't listen to him.
He's not the influence over the developers, WE are.  He's giving US the shout out that "Hey, these guys are too lazy to put a stinking 16x9 pro scan mode in this game.  Demand better."  He using his status on a huge gaming site to help make sure the laziness inherent with the GC generation won't go unchecked.  So you don't think he has a huge influence?  That's not the point.  He DOES have a huge audience.   The developers know that Nintendo fans are a fickle lot, and any appearance of laziness means a no thanks from them.  Hence, when Matt says this developer is being lazy with the Wii, it's directed to his readers, us.   The negative response is what the developers will listen to.

[Kairon]

So... Matt's using us, his trusting readers, as unwitting pawns against developers?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Deguello]

I'm sure all of Matt's readers have Widescreen TVs.

[Ceric]

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I just wonder sometimes if he does all that stupid stuff because he needs attention

Yes.  Yes he does.  Its not a personal matter, I'm sure he likes the attention somewhat.  But he's on a site that generates revenue from ads and he has a family.  Over time IGN seems to have let Matt stray away more and more from the other editors.  Why?  Because he gets the attention.  He had for a while one of their slowest channels news wise.  Kept it alive and popular.  People like him.  They value his opinion.  That's one of the reasons his blog is the most popular.

The sad fact is that if Matt slipped and starts to lose most people attention then he's canned.  No paycheck for him.  I'm sure if Matt was instead the lead editor of PGC here he wouldn't put some types of articles up even if it was slow.  PGC isn't out to make a profit and no one is paid just dedicated.  That could be the difference of letting news slip from an Undisclosed source instead of waiting for when they can be named.

Oh also, Yes I do have a Widescreen TV.  You be hard pressed now to find a true upgrade that isn't 16x9.  All the Demo Kiosk seem to be using 16x9 TV's.  All the tradeshows use 16x9 TVs.  All the places where you have to prove your product before it can go to market for the most part.

[Strell]

Listen.

Matt Camsasmasamasascaimcaicmaicaicaia doesn't deserve this much discussion about him.

Seriously.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

True that.

We should be talking about how many of Ubi's Wii games are being developed by Ubi Shanghai.

[Kairon]

All of them. Even Rayman. Ancel is really Chinese.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

OH GAWD

WORST LAUNCH EVAR

[Artimus]

Quote
Originally posted by: Deguello
Just listen to him harp on endlessly about voice acting in Zelda and how disappointed he is that it probably won't feature it.  Normally this would be inconsequential, but we are talking about a site the takes away points for not having any kart skins.  I mean seriously, it would be like I got a bug up my ass about Captain Falcon not being in F-Zero: Maximum Velocity and trashed the game because of it.  It's just not good journalism or good criticism.

Now it makes sense. Someone is pissed off he didn't give Double Dash a 9.0. I didn't realize people really cared that much. You know what? I love Nintendo as much as anyone but I think 7.9 was too HIGH for Double Dash. 7.5 was more fair. OMG ITZ TEH TRUTHZ!!!!?q@@ Who are you to declare what is and isn't qualified as a flaw in a game, anyway? But because I'm tired of this silly say-so, let's look at part of the conclusion for the Double Dash review:

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The production values put into Mario Kart: Double Dash are extremely disappointing; honestly, do we really need two item buttons (X and Y) instead of dedicating one of them to a look-behind function? Having played a title like SSX 3, which redefines what you can do with arcade racers -- how much you can offer the players -- I feel like Mario Kart: Double Dash is missing so much
...
I expected so much more than this ho-hum effort. I had hoped for deeper controls, more than one selectable costume, skins for the karts, maybe GBA link-up support, more intriguing level designs, more characters, much more high-quality music -- the list goes on. I mean, it's still an enjoyable game, but not on the level it could have been.

Ahh yes. The only reason he didn't like it is because there's only one skin per cart. Clearly it has nothing to do with him feeling the game is control wise a step back from MK64 and not a good value for a new version of the game. Oh no.

Oh, wait, what's this? GameSpot gave it the same score?! 9 of its 83 reviews were 79 or lower? Another 16 of the 83 were 80s?! OMG you'd almost think he wasn't alone.

Seriously. Are you kidding me? All this comes down to is you're angry he doesn't pimp Nintendo endlessly.

And please show me where he harps ENDLESSLY about Zelda's voice acting. I seem to recall he's said he'd love to see Zelda have it on a couple occasions. I also seem to remember him saying it looks like TP will be the best Zelda ever. Hmmm...is it actually possible he'd like to see something added to a game but can still love the game!? No way! That would go against blind loyalty!!! I bet you'd find most people, not only him, think voice acting (if well done) would add to the game. PC games have been using it for over a decade. We're not talking about Link having a voice, remember.

But, please, do show me this endless harping.

[JonLeung]

I think anything that anyone says on the Internet is going to be criticized endlessly.  Popularity and controversy go together.  Matt Cass-etc. is a popular/controversial editor for a likely popular/controversial console's section on a popular/controversial site.

Love him or hate him, agree with him or not, whatever.  I see little point to argue about what he thinks and says - or what anyone thinks and says, really.  We all have our own opinions.

I seriously doubt he has any say about the fate of the Wii or any Nintendo console or anything major so I'd just move on.

Well, you can do what you want, it just seems like he has too much attention already, and unfortunately I may be contributing to that.  So that's it from me about this.

[Deguello]

Well Artimus is surely full of piss and vinegar.  

That selection from the review is actually quite telling of his awful criticisnm.  The phrase "production values" should never ever be in a serious review.  You know what game has a lot of production values?  EA's From Russia With Love.  It is amorphous and has different meanings to different people.  Furthermore, he reviews the game based upon what his expectations of the game were going in.  "I expceted?"  I mean seriously, video game reviews aren't forum posts.  You can't do a serious review like that.  He even compares it to a game that's not even in its genre.  He is basically reviewing the game for what's not there, instead of what is.  You can't do that, it just isn't good criticism.  That basically means that I should never ever review an RPG or an MGS game, because I don't care about storylines and cutscenes and I DO expect gameplay, both of which are incredibly lacking there.  You should only review what is there, not what you expected to be there, but isn't.

You can't review a game with a laundry list of your expectations and dock points accordingly.  It just isn't good critique and it contributes to the homogenization of games where they all have to fill out certain base criteria before they are accepted.  It stabs at the very heart of innovation.

And yes Matt has wanted voices in Zelda for a long time, even so much so that he said it wouldn't be "epic" without them.  There even some quote where Reginald Fils-Aime had to tell him that is foolish.  And this all leads back to that "production values" thing.  Who cares if it is the best game of the year, no voices = low production values = let's take off some points.  All it takes is for him to bring his list into the room when he reviews it and the hype you say he has for it goes out the window once he doesn't hear the voice acting that isn't there.

As I said before, I don't care if he likes Nintendo or not.  He can fanstroke them all day long like that IGNPlaystation guy or he can bitterly hate them with all his passion.  I don't care.  It's his past irresponsible journalism and his FANBOYISH expectations which color his critique that concern me.

and you know what, I am seriously tired of talking about him.

Getting this topic BACK ON TRACK or else.

[ShyGuy]

Wii is the hardcorest of them all!

[wandering]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
Matt's problem is that he's a hardcore gamer. Seriously. He likes Metroid. METROID!

And your problem is that you have no taste in games. Seriously. You don't like Metroid. METROID.

Quote
Basically, Matt has always been a rough fit for Nintendo because he's becoming more and more of a Dinosaur type of gamer, and all of his pat vitriol for Nintendo has resulted from his difficulties adapting to this brve new world of gaming where he's more of a niche minority than a demigod.

So gamers who prefer games that aren't designed for dinosaurs are dinosaurs now?