Topic: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean

[MoronSonOfBoron]

As an aside, I believe the magnetic field sensory technology is also being used for Razer's PC motion controller. The company providing the technology, Sixense, was in talks with all three console makers about licensing the technology in early 2009. Does anyone know for sure if Sony licensed it from Sixense after all?

[Stogi]

We're not Nintendo stockholders.

Speak for yourself...

[Ian Sane]

Like 3rd party support was all that good on the GC and the N64?

It wasn't and that was something I wanted Nintendo to address.  We've now had 14 years of this crap.  But at least those consoles weren't the market leader so there was some justification.  Now Nintendo has become the market leader but this position only benefits THEM and not US.  With all other console generations the market leading console benefitted that console's userbase with the best third party support.
 
Regardless of who we all support, competition inspires quality.  Nintendo talks about how they have their own market seperate from Sony and MS and thus don't compete with them.  The hell with that!  All the console makers being in the same market and competing directly with each other results in better consoles for all of us.  If Sony can compete in Nintendo's market it will light a fire under Nintendo's ass.  Sony doesn't have to usurp Nintendo but merely threaten them.  It's in our best interest that no console maker have enough power and security to slack off or take advantage of us.  They should all be checking over their shoulder.  So we should hope to some extent that Sony acheives some success with this, at least enough to keep Nintendo on their toes.

[ThePerm]

Whether you think the hardware is out of date or not, the fact is its still highly profitable. That's all that matters to a business like Nintendo. Only fans like us care about graphics or A.I. Nintendo only cares about making money, and the Wii excels for that.

I don't work for Nintendo.  All I give a damn about is what they do for me.  I want them to be profitable but only in a way that benefits me.  I had to buy a PS3 to get access to good third party support because Nintendo practically repackaged a Gamecube and called it "next gen".  They fucked up OUR third party support so they could make their console as cheap as possible and still make a profit on the hardware off of us.  They compromised the quality of their console and the quality of being a Wii owner to make an extra buck off of you and me.  You say Nintendo only cares about money as if it's a good thing.  Why does ANYONE on this forum act like that?  Are the Jonas Brothers the best band in the world because they make so much money?  I would assume that for anyone who truly has a love of videogames that money, sales, etc are irrelevent unless we're specifically talking about the business of games.  And even then it should entirely be related to how it benefits us gamers such as how it affects third party support, prices, the creation of sequels, localizations, ports to consoles we own, availablility of games in stores, and the continued viability of developers we like.
 
The Wii is out-of-date because it doesn't support features that ALL the competing consoles do.  The Wii is out-of-date because it misses out on almost every multiplatform game worth a **** because of it's glorified last-gen hardware.  It fails to suit my needs as a gamer because of it's inferior hardware.  Not because I just have a hard-on for specs but because of the real effect that the inferior hardware has had on the console's selection of games.  To properly serve my needs as a gamer, Nintendo needs to release a Wii successor by about late 2011 or so.  We're not Nintendo stockholders so we shouldn't care about how much money they make.  A company manipulating us for profit should be vilified, not praised.

The flaw in that argument is that it acts like Nintendo had good third party support to begin with. Nintendo hasn't had great third party support since the SNES days. 3rd parties treat Nintendo like they make kiddie peace of **** consoles. They have a dumb as **** sense of what is cool, and they think that is what they should support. The Ps3 is the titanic and if they want to support a system that is a sinking ship than they can join all the dumbassed companies in the industry death thread. Here is what I know. The Wii controller is a genius and wonderful input device, it is better than a regular controller and is not a gimmick, unless you want to go by the positive gimmick definition. I have played games that use the device properly and some that haven't. 3rd parties don't get it, and that is the problem. The Wii is the number one console because it has a couple of games that use the device correctly. Third parties hate Nintendo, and no matter what ingenious things they do, they will continue to treat the company like ****. The only thing i could wish Nintendo to do is make as much money as they can and buy all the damn third parties and get them to shut the **** up and get their **** together, and even then that isn't that great of an investment.

[Stogi]

It's in our best interest that no console maker have enough power and security to slack off or take advantage of us.  They should all be checking over their shoulder.  So we should hope to some extent that Sony acheives some success with this, at least enough to keep Nintendo on their toes.

I think I said this exact sentiment a page ago but in a more positive manner and with less words.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

How am I supposed to play Gran Turismo 5 with this control scheme?  Is there a Car Cockpit controller shell I can activate with the Orb?

[NWR_insanolord]

How am I supposed to play Gran Turismo 5 with this control scheme?  Is there a Car Cockpit controller shell I can activate with the Orb?

I don't want to be Sony's spokesman here, but pretty much anything that could be done with a NES style Wii remote, including Mario Kart style tilt-steering controls, could already be done with Sony's original half-assed Nintendo ripoff, the Sixaxis.

[BlackNMild2k1]

bulb gets in the way of reaching any buttons. Unless you have freakishly long thumbs.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

How am I supposed to play Gran Turismo 5 with this control scheme?  Is there a Car Cockpit controller shell I can activate with the Orb?

I don't want to be Sony's spokesman here, but pretty much anything that could be done with a NES style Wii remote, including Mario Kart style tilt-steering controls, could already be done with Sony's original half-assed Nintendo ripoff, the Sixaxis.

But SicksAxes is the past, we're talking about... Sony and The Future.

[BlackNMild2k1]

PS Move Bundle Details

You will be able to get involved with PlayStation Move in several ways:

• Camera + controller (including a “starter disc” with a range of demos for games releasing later in the year)
• A single controller for people who already have a PlayStation Eye camera
• A full console pack which includes PS3, dualshock3, Move controller + camera
• Finally some of our biggest games will be available with a Move controller included[/l]

So you don't even get a casual game with the bundle, but a demo disc full of samplers.... :/

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

For only $100, you get the "SMove" Bundle with an included "Move Play" disc, a $150 value!

[Chozo Ghost]

The Wii still has a lot of room yet for price drops and bundle deals to keep it going for a few more years. I believe by this point in the GC's life it was down to $99, but the Wii has only seen one price drop in its whole life. If the PS3 really starts to take off Nintendo could start doing that.

One price drop and One color....

/cry

Nintendo's huge success this gen has been both a blessing and a curse for Nintendo fans. If the Wii had been struggling then we would have seen more colors and price drops by now for sure. We might also have seen more games and bundled deals.

The GC era sucked for Nintendo as a business, but it was a swell time to be a Nintendo fan. We got plenty of new core IPs (Luigi's manson, Geist, Pikmin, etc.) which generally failed in a commercial sense, but they were great games in a critical sense.

The Wii isn't bad either if you're a casual gamer, but we're missing out on "hardcore" material.

[Chozo Ghost]

The Wii is out-of-date because it misses out on almost every multiplatform game worth a ****

If that is the reason the Wii is out of date, then by that same logic wouldn't you say the GC and N64 were out-of-date as well? The GC was fairly decent hardware in its day, second only to the Xbox, yet it was in last place in terms of multi-platform support. The same is true with the N64. The N64 was actually the most powerful system of its time, but it lacked 3rd party support.

So I just don't understand how you can say that Nintendo forfeited multiplatform support by "repackaging the GC". The Wii may be inferior hardware, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the 3rd party support situation. Even when Nintendo had hardware on par or even superior to its competitors they still got shat on by 3rd parties. So what is your excuse for then?

[SixthAngel]

The one game I have some real interest in is the sword fighting game.  I love the Resort sword and this actually looks a bit different since it has a shield.  If you have two ice cream cones it could make some awesome sword and shield combat. 
Why did they have to make everybody some kind of NFL reject though?  The fighters even have the black stuff under their eyes.

Nintendo's huge success this gen has been both a blessing and a curse for Nintendo fans. If the Wii had been struggling then we would have seen more colors and price drops by now for sure. We might also have seen more games and bundled deals.

I agree with you here, the GC was getting rocked so they slashed the prices hard.  I picked up the GC way late in the game and it was dirt cheap.

The GC era sucked for Nintendo as a business, but it was a swell time to be a Nintendo fan. We got plenty of new core IPs (Luigi's manson, Geist, Pikmin, etc.) which generally failed in a commercial sense, but they were great games in a critical sense.

The Wii isn't bad either if you're a casual gamer, but we're missing out on "hardcore" material.

While I agree that Nintendo has not made a lot of new IPs outside of the Wii line (Disaster, the new RPGs, etc) they have done an excellent job of reviving games that their fans have typically loved (Excite____, Punch Out, 2d Mario, Sin and Punishment 2).

This Wii linup is very retro except for Retro

[Ian Sane]

The Wii may be inferior hardware, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with the 3rd party support situation. Even when Nintendo had hardware on par or even superior to its competitors they still got shat on by 3rd parties. So what is your excuse for then?

The N64 and Cube had poor third party support because they were unpopular.  Actually the N64 did largely suffer from being too different because of the cartridge vs. cd thing.  But the Cube lost out because it was the lowest selling console.
 
But the best selling console ALWAYS has the best support.  Previous Nintendo consoles that were the market leader had this.  So has every market leading Nintendo portable.  So why does the Wii have the WORST?  I think the fact that the Wii's hardware is so vastly underpowered compared to the PS3, X360 and PC is the most likely reason.  It comes down to either making a game that one can easily port between three plaforms or an exclusive that's only on one.  You can't make a game for the PS3 and just port it to the Wii.  It isn't simple to just down-port like that.  By being too different Nintendo seperated the Wii so instead of it being Wii vs. PS3 vs. X360 vs. PC it became Wii vs. PS3 & X360 & PC.  The Wii has to provide a better potential market than ALL THREE COMBINED.
 
What's more likely?  That third parties neglect the market leading console because the hardware is vastly underpowered compared to all the other formats or that every single third party has some grudge against Nintendo and intentionally avoids the market leading console entirely to stick it to them.  I know that sometimes it feels that way but it's far too fantastic.  EVERY third party feels this way?  Every single one is willing to allow personal feelings to interfere with business?  Bullshit.

[ThePerm]

yes, yes. Third parties never see logic, they look at focus groups and listen to market analyst. Who are all wrong and fail to adapt. Most developers shot themselves in the foot this generation by not supporting Nintendo last generation. Your right companies can't make a game on Ps3 and xbox 360 and port them to the Wii, but you see thats the problem. Thats not a good business approach. Ps2 was the weakest console last generation, and if anything console makers would make something on ps2 and at least port it to xbox. Developers should get off their asses and make something decent for Wii. It should be of the same quality as Resident Evil 4 for gamecube. Only Capcom and Nintendo have decent engines running on the Wii, if factor 5 were still around they could just build off of Rogue leader. Unfortunately, Capcom has gotten lazy and only makes rail shooter games and gimped ports. Dead Rising would be a perfectly fine port if they didn't take away goddamn JUMPING.

[Peachylala]

Unfortunately, Capcom has gotten lazy and only makes rail shooter games and gimped ports.

Millage may vary with Okami. RE4 Wii was amazing. The rest can go to hell.
 
I hope Capcom suffers another bankrupty scare. =D
 

[KDR_11k]

I don't know if the terra sensor is anything like it but the EM tech on my Wacom pad spazzes out if there are any EM fields nearby (which happens easily in the modern electronics-everywhere household).

If HD was really enough to lift Move above the Wii Nintendo wouldn't have ignored it four years ago. The Wii is based on graphics being good enough that people aren't willing to pay more for better graphics. While hardcore gamers will of course care the majority won't, especially the "casual" gamers. Sony is already seeing that problem with the PS2 and games like Buzz and SingStar, those games don't need HD at all and owners of a PS2 have no reason to buy a PS3 for games like that. Would games like Wii Fit or Mario Kart Wii really be much better in HD? You'll see hardcore games make good use of the HD on the PS3 but those aren't the games that will increase the market for the PS3.

[Ian Sane]

If HD was really enough to lift Move above the Wii Nintendo wouldn't have ignored it four years ago.

I think it's giving Nintendo far more credit than any company deserves to assume that if they didn't do it that it must not be that important.  Nintendo isn't perfect.  Neither is Sony or MS.  All three companies have made mistakes.
 
The PS2 required a multitap to accomodate four players during a time where all other consoles had four controller slots as standard.  Did this relate at all to the PS2's success?  Obviously it wasn't a big enough issue to damn the machine but I wouldn't assume that since Sony did that and won that that was the right decision to make.
 
I'm quite certain that the Wii was as successful as it was because of Wii Sports.  People saw this game where you swing the controller and the character on screen does the exact same thing and it blew their minds.  They had to have it and they bought the Wii for that.  I don't think the price had anything to do with that.  People paid out of the ass for Rock Band because, again, they saw a concept that was so appealing to them that they just had to have it.  Without this killer app the price and accessability and all of that would have meant squat.  The whole music game craze had the same level of mainstream appeal and it was almost the opposite of the Wii as it involved games that cost way more than the average game costs.  Hell the Wii was sold out for YEARS.  With that kind of demand I'm certain Nintendo would have charged at least $100 more than they did.
 
Plus we haven't seen a direct comparison.  Before it was motion control vs. HD.  Nothing offered both and I would say that motion control appeared to be more important to consumers.  But now it's not an either/or situation.  The differences are gone.  It's basically the Wii vs. the Wii plus MORE.
 
The game of course will make the difference as they always do.  The Wii won because it had the killer app that the other consoles could not have.  And Sony needs a similar killer app to truly gain any steam against Nintendo.  People will pay what it takes to get that game they have to have, unless you're like charging $10000 or something.

[ThePerm]

price point is very important too, the Wii until the xbox 360 price drop was the only console with a reasonable price point. Hopefully, Nintendo should lower their price around e3. Now the Question is how much should they lower the price to? 179, 159, 129, or the very low price of 99.

[Guitar Smasher]

The Wii was sold out in January.  I don't expect any significant price cuts this until the holiday season.

[NWR_insanolord]

The thing is, I highly doubt Nintendo would be the market leader if they'd gone with hardware on par with the 360, as they wouldn't have been able to get the price low enough that the blue ocean crowd would be willing to pay it. Remember, the cheapest 360 at the time of the Wii launch was already $50 more, and Microsoft was taking a huge loss on it. Popular and underpowered or unpopular and on the same technical level, either way you get crap third party support.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The Wii was sold out in January.  I don't expect any significant price cuts this until the holiday season.

The unrivaled market leader.

[TJ Spyke]

Exactly, the Wii only dropped from $250 to $200 (after 34 months) because Wii sales finally started to sag. Nintendo will not drop the Wii's price again until that happens again.

As for PlayStation Move, it will not be even a minor threat to Wii. For one, it will just be a peripheral (and not a standard controller like Wii Remote it). Second, it will be $100. Also (and this is not major) is that it just looks idiotic. If Nintendo had released a controller like that, you would have Sony fanboys laughing at the stupid glowing ball on top of it.

[Chozo Ghost]

What's more likely?  That third parties neglect the market leading console because the hardware is vastly underpowered compared to all the other formats or that every single third party has some grudge against Nintendo and intentionally avoids the market leading console entirely to stick it to them.  I know that sometimes it feels that way but it's far too fantastic.  EVERY third party feels this way?  Every single one is willing to allow personal feelings to interfere with business?  Bull****.

I think its because they're trapped in a vicious cycle where they believe only Nintendo games can sell on Nintendo platforms, so they either don't make any games or they just make crap, and then it ends up becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy, because if they don't make games or only make crap then no one is buying it and therefore people are only buying Nintendo games on that platform.

Some 3rd parties have seen success on Nintendo consoles, but the only way it happens is if they treat the console with respect and give a serious effort and then actually advertise the games once they're made. Very few 3rd parties actually do these things, so their **** ends up being a huge failure, but they blame Nintendo for that and don't acknowledge the real reason for why that is.

Ian, you say games can't be ported to the Wii because of the inferior hardware, but I think that's bullcrap. What do you have to say about games like Street Fighter IV making its way to the Iphone? The Iphone does not have cell-processors and gigs of RAM. If that game could be done on that device then I'm sure it could be done on the Wii as well. It just makes no sense at all. Many 3rd parties do have an irrational grudge against Nintendo hardware. Its either for the reason I pointed out, or because they still hold a grudge from the days when Yamauchi ran the company and bullied them around, or it may be because they see the consoles as "kiddie", or because they are jealous of the popularity and success of Nintendo first party games and would rather not compete with them directly because it makes their own efforts look that much worse.

These are the real reasons 3rd parties hate and avoid the Wii. If it isn't all of those reasons then its some of them, or some combination of them.