Topic: Sony's Motion in the Blue Ocean

[Kairon]

terrestrial magnetic field sensor

Woah. What?

[KDR_11k]

Wasn't there an EyeToy game called Move?

If the SubCon (is it controlled by Wart?) and Move controller are both connected wirelessly... is the SubCon communicating with the Move or is it a separate bluetooth device for the PS3? Because I seem to recall hearing about a hard limit of 7 bluetooth devices for the PS3...

[Shaymin]

Line of the night: "Sony released the WiiHD so Nintendo wouldn't have to"

[Caliban]

terrestrial magnetic field sensor

Woah. What?

That's the one thing that caught my attention. I looked into it on google, but I have no clue how it could be used in the gaming field. A one seriously big WTF.

To me it seems the Arc will have less problems with calibration.
The gyroscope on the Wii Motion Plus is a cool technology, and it works , but it just seems to me that its calibration issues are going to be an obstacle for developers and gamers.

Actually I am mistaken lol. I read on kotaku that they had to calibrate when changing games, which doesn't seem that bad because at least it's not needing to calibrate ever so often, but the need to calibrate is still there.

$100? *sigh* I guess it makes sense. $40 for the camera, and $50 for the Move. What about the Sub-Controller, how much is it going to cost? My bets are on $29.99.


All in all, I would say that with Sony and Microsoft releasing their versions of waggling instruments is just a preemptive for Nintendo to release something even better and cheaper.

[MegaByte]

The terrestrial magnetic field sensor, more commonly known as a magnetometer, can be used to keep track of orientation in conjunction with the accelerometer and gyroscope.  This is how it can keep accurate track of your movements even if the camera can't see you.  It's also used as a compass in cell phones.

[Caliban]

terrestrial magnetic field sensor

"Magnetic sensors,
on the other hand, detect changes, or disturbances, in magnetic fields that
have been created or modified, and from them derive information on properties
such as direction, presence, rotation, angle, or electrical currents. The
output signal of these sensors requires some signal processing for translation
into the desired parameter. Although magnetic detectors are somewhat more
difficult to use, they do provide accurate and reliable data — without physical
contact."

So basically Sony added on to the device an extra layer of precision.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Line of the night: "Sony released the WiiHD so Nintendo wouldn't have to"

My #1 Candidate for Line of the Night goes to Gamestop's on the floor Rep.
While talking to Zipper and numerous other Sony Dev's about games using Move he would say something along the lines of:
"Can you tell me more about Wii Motion....uhhh, Wii Move..... sorry, Playstation Move?"

He said this so many times throughout the night of GS Live from the floor coverage, that I'm surprised the Devs kept talking to him.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Press Release

OVERVIEW
 
PlayStation®Move offers a new and innovative gaming experience for the PlayStation®3 (PS3™) system
by fusing realistic, high-definition gaming along with accurate, intuitive control. Consisting of
PlayStation®Move motion controller, PlayStation®Move sub-controller and PlayStation®Eye camera,
PlayStation Move enables sophisticated motion control and immersive gameplay only possible on the PS3
system. 
 
PLAYSTATION®MOVE MOTION CONTROLLER
 
The corner stone of PlayStation Move, PlayStation Move motion controller combines advanced motion
sensors, a dynamic color changing sphere, vibration feedback, and an easy to use button interface. Equipped
with three-axis gyroscope, three-axis accelerometer and terrestrial magnetic field sensor, PlayStation Move
motion controller tracks the precise movements and the angle of the controller. The PS3 system also detects
the absolute position of the controller in 3D space by using PlayStation Eye camera. Highly sensitive
movement tracking can be accurately traced back to the game, allowing intuitive gameplay as if the player
is within the game. 
 
  KEY FEATURES:
o  Works with PlayStation Eye camera to accurately track player position
o  Includes action buttons of DUALSHOCK®3 and SIXAXIS® wireless controller for direct
input
o  Sleek and Wireless
o  Built-in rechargeable Li-ion battery
o  Advanced motion sensors in the controller precisely track both fast and subtle movements 
o  Color of the sphere's light provides visual feedback during gameplay 
o  Vibration feedback is felt during specific actions 
o  Bluetooth® technology supports wireless gaming
o  Simultaneously use up to four motion controllers with a PS3 system
o  Charge the controller and automatically pair it with the PS3 system via a USB cable (Type
A - Mini-B)

PLAYSTATION®MOVE SUB-CONTROLLER 
 
PlayStation Move sub controller is a supplementary controller, developed to further expand the experience
that PlayStation Move games can offer. It can be used in most PlayStation Move games that require
navigating an in-game character as it replicates the control features of the left side of DUALSHOCK 3 and
SIXAXIS wireless controller into one’s PlayStation Move experience. PlayStation Move sub controller
adds an analog stick, directional buttons and two face buttons into the PlayStation Move's control scheme.
In addition, the sub-controller contains the L1 button, L2 button and L3 button for actions and commands
common in advanced gaming. 
 
  KEY FEAURES:
o  Wireless control completely untethered from PlayStation Move motion controller
o  Intuitive navigation of in-game characters
o  Easy and intuitive XMB™ menu navigation
o  Built-in rechargeable Li-ion battery
o  Charge the controller and automatically pair it with the PS3 system via a USB cable (Type
A - Mini-B)
o  Sleek curved body design that easily pairs with the motion controller 
 
Note: DUALSHOCK 3 and SIXAXIS wireless controller can be used in place of the sub controller for all games
that are compatible with the sub controller
 
PLAYSTATION®EYE CAMERA 
 
As an integral part of PlayStation Move, PlayStation Eye camera is designed specifically to work with the
next generation of PlayStation Move gaming titles being developed for the PS3 system. When used with
PlayStation Move motion controller, PlayStation Eye camera precisely tracks a user’s movement and the
motion controller’s sphere to help bring every move into the game. In addition, PlayStation Eye camera
captures a player’s voice or image and when combined together with PlayStation Move games, will bring a
whole new entertainment experience to user only possible on the PlayStation® platform.
 
  KEY FEAURES:
o  Engineered to perform in low-light conditions so that the rooms do not have to be lit
brightly for the camera to deliver crisp, perfectly exposed video
o  Two position zoom lens for close-up and full body options
o  At 60 frames per second, captures a sharp, clear picture at 640 x 480 resolutions 
o  Frame rate of up to 120 frames per second for improved tracking, responsiveness and
smoothness 
o  A sophisticated microphone with the ability to reduce background noise and focus on
spoken word for smoother, more accurate speech recognition 
 
PRICING AND AVAILABLILITY: 
Available in North America fall 2010. Pricing to be announced.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Third Party Developers and Publishers Supporting PlayStation®Move platform

Company Name (in alphabetical order, as of March 10, 2010)
   
505 Games U.S.
Activision Publishing, Inc.
AQ INTERACTIVE Inc.
ARC SYSTEMS WORK CO.,LTD
ATLUS Co., LTD.
Bigben Interactive
CAPCOM CO., LTD.
CCP   
Crave Entertainment   
CYBERFRONT Corporation
Disney Interactive Studios
Electronic Arts Inc.
FromSoftware, Inc.
Game Republic, Inc.
GUST CO., LTD.
HUDSON SOFT CO., LTD
IREM SOFTWARE ENGINEERING INC.
Koei Co., Ltd.
Konami Digital Entertainment Co., Ltd.
Majesco Entertainment
Marvelous Entertainment Inc.
NAMCO BANDAI Games Inc.
ONGAKUKAN Co., Ltd.
Oxygen Games
PAON CORPORATION
Q Entertainment Inc.
Q-GAMES, LTD.
SEGA CORPORATION
Sony Online Entertainment
Spike Co., Ltd.
SQUARE ENIX GROUP
TECMO, LTD.
THQ Inc.
UBISOFT®
Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment
Zoo Entertainment, Inc.

PlayStation®Move motion controller

Product name: PlayStation®Move motion controller
Product code: CECH-ZCM1
Release date: Fall 2010
Recommended retail price: To be decided
Color: Black
Mass: Approx. 145 g
External dimension: Approx. 200mm X 46mm (height X diameter)
Battery type: Built-in, rechargeable lithium-ion battery
Voltage: DC 3.7 V
Operating temperature: 5 degrees C ~ 35 degrees C

PlayStation®Move sub-controller

Product name: PlayStation®Move sub-controller
Product code: CECH-ZCS1
Release date: Fall 2010
Recommended retail price: To be decided
Color: Black
Mass: Approx. 95 g
External dimension: Approx. 138mm X 42mm (height X diameter)
Battery type: Built-in, rechargeable lithium-ion batter
Voltage: DC 3.7 V
Operating temperature: 5 degrees C ~ 35 degrees C

[BlackNMild2k1]

Engadget: PlayStation Move first hands-on (update: video!)

• The controllers are light. Much more akin to the DualShock3 than the Wiimote in heft, and we're guessing that's due to Sony's continued love of rechargeable batteries.
• The main controller does have some subtle vibration (not DualShock or Wiimote level, but present), but we're not sure yet about the subcontroller.
• We hate to say this about "pre-alpha" software, but we're feeling lag. An on-rails shooter we tried out, dubbed The Shoot, was discernibly inferior to shooting experiences we've had on the Wii, both in precision and refresh rate of the aiming cursor.
• The gladiator game is about as fun as it looks, we'll have video after the break momentarily. Unfortunately, while it's less of a defined experience than something like the sword game on Wii Sports Resort, you're still working through a library of sensed, pre-defined actions instead of a true 1:1 fighting game with simulated physics. Not that it isn't possible with PlayStation Move, just that it's not this.
• The lightness of the controllers means we might be feeling less of that Wiimote fatigue, always a good thing! There's an aspect of the controller that feels a little cheap, but at the same time we wouldn't call it fragile.
• As far as we can tell, the control scheme for Socom 4 is quite similar to dual-controller shooter setups on the Wii, with the camera moving based on your aiming cursor hitting the edge. It's hard to see this as the preferred hardcore setup, but we're told it's configurable, so we'll try and see what else is on offer.
• The system seemed to have a bit of trouble understanding the configuration of our body in a swordfighting stance: even though we selected "left handed," it was putting our sword arm forward instead of our shield. Right-handers didn't seem to have similar problems, and we're sure this will be ironed out in time, but it certainly shows that the controllers aren't magical in their space-detection prowess.
• As would be expected, you're supposed to stand relatively center on the TV, and at a certain optimal distance. The system is forgiving, but there's a sweet spot that users will undoubtedly have to learn.
• Lag is less prominent on Socom 4, and we'd say we're pretty accurate with the controller already, though the framerate choppiness of this pre-alpha build obviously hampers that a bit. We did get a slight feel of being in "scene to scene" shootouts instead of a free-roaming FPS, perhaps a design choice to mitigate the limited camera movement offered by the controller, but we'll have to see more levels to know for sure.[/l][/l]

[/list]

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

The Shoot = The Lag

we might be feeling less of that Wiimote fatigue = Weak Man Children

perhaps a design choice to mitigate the limited camera movement offered by the controller = HD gaming, prepare to get Casualized

Give my Conduit control scheme a try.

[Ian Sane]

Regarding third party support I think the hardware difference has always been the main concern.  I think for example that Capcom had every intention of porting Dead Rising to the Wii but ran into a wall regarding the hardware and realized they couldn't get the amount of zombies on screen that they wanted so they busted out this Chop 'Til You Drop nonsense.  It isn't just HD support making the difference.  The more powerful hardware allows for more objects on screen, better framerate, more complicated AI, larger open spaces.  It's not as simple as making the graphics look less nice.  The secondary reason was the core vs. casual stuff.  The controller wasn't really the issue so I don't things will change unless Nintendo matches the PS3 hardware.  Multiplatform development should be as effortless as possible.  Nintendo fails regarding it because there are too many hurdles.  "Well if you just put in the extra effort..."  **** that.  That's a lame excuse.  Nintendo always has excuses.

The price for this seems high but I think we really should see this as like a new console.  I really doubt Sony has the PS4 on the doorstep.  It took them years to get the price down to something reasonable.  If they upped the hardware again they would just create the same problem again.  This is all Sony can do to create a next gen of games.  So on that note it's like a new console at $400, but if you already have the regular PS3 you can upgrade for $100.  That ain't Wii cheap but it's not PS3 launch bad.  Going from a Wii to this is pricey but don't look at it as buying a second console.  This would be like buying a successor, a new console to go with a new gen.  If/when Nintendo releases a successor for the Wii THIS is what it will compete with.  Sony and MS are showing this instead of new consoles.  Nintendo is the only one that has to release a brand new console because their hardware is too out-of-date.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Correction from an earlier post

A smarter controller: I played SOCOM 4, a third person-shooter, with the Move pointed at the TV like a gun and the sub-controller in my left hand to command character movement. Wii games that were controlled with Remote and Nunchuk could be befuddled if the player pointed the Remote away from the screen. If you were playing a shooter and aimed just off the screen, the game's camera might start spinning or the game would pause and ask for the player to point at the TV again.

The guys from Ubisoft said this problem was solved with the inclusion of M+ and that you could technically even shoot at enemies that were off screen. They were playing around with it for Red Steel 2(I'm sure ShyGuy could find the interview).
Still not as accurate as PSEye/Move(for off screen tracking), but it works exactly the same as if someone where blocking the camera like the Kotaku person said.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"Capcom had every intention of porting Dead Rising to the Wii but ran into a wall regarding the hardware"

Boy, they sure did.  Their 5th-rate port dev had tons of trouble getting simple things right.

"It's not as simple as making the graphics look less nice."

Yes, it's that simple.  Oneechanbara has streets, hospitals, whatever, full of zombies, runs at a solid 60fps, and presents itself much better than Flop Till You Port.

"Well if you just put in the extra effort..."

Then you might make good games.  Nintendo puts in extra effort on things that count.

"Going from a Wii to this is pricey but don't look at it as buying a second console."

Another console is a second console, especially if it launches with knock-offs of games that came out 4 years ago.  You say these things, but do YOU even want this?  What are you on?

I don't even think you've sank your teeth into Wii Sports Resort, so just get out.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Regarding third party support I think the hardware difference has always been the main concern.  I think for example that Capcom had every intention of porting Dead Rising to the Wii but ran into a wall regarding the hardware and realized they couldn't get the amount of zombies on screen that they wanted so they busted out this Chop 'Til You Drop nonsense.  It isn't just HD support making the difference.  The more powerful hardware allows for more objects on screen, better framerate, more complicated AI, larger open spaces.  It's not as simple as making the graphics look less nice.  The secondary reason was the core vs. casual stuff.  The controller wasn't really the issue so I don't things will change unless Nintendo matches the PS3 hardware.  Multiplatform development should be as effortless as possible.  Nintendo fails regarding it because there are too many hurdles.  "Well if you just put in the extra effort..."  **** that.  That's a lame excuse.  Nintendo always has excuses.

Capcom didn't even make Chop Till You Drop, CTYD didn't come out till like a year after the original and obviously you haven't seen Samurai Warrior 3. dozens upon dozens of individual enemies on screen at the same time with a solid frame rate. Capcom didn't even try and there is no reason to make excuses for them. You need hardware like PS3 to do the same game in HD, but the games can be scaled down to SD. They were making the same exact games that they are making now in HD for the PS2 & Xbox last gen in SD and the Wii is more powerful than either of those. Lets stop being the enabler by making excuses for them

The price for this seems high but I think we really should see this as like a new console.  I really doubt Sony has the PS4 on the doorstep.  It took them years to get the price down to something reasonable.  If they upped the hardware again they would just create the same problem again.  This is all Sony can do to create a next gen of games.  So on that note it's like a new console at $400, but if you already have the regular PS3 you can upgrade for $100.  That ain't Wii cheap but it's not PS3 launch bad.  Going from a Wii to this is pricey but don't look at it as buying a second console.  This would be like buying a successor, a new console to go with a new gen.  If/when Nintendo releases a successor for the Wii THIS is what it will compete with.  Sony and MS are showing this instead of new consoles.  Nintendo is the only one that has to release a brand new console because their hardware is too out-of-date.

Your right. Sony has just revealed WiiHD, but what I'm actually waiting for is Wii2.
We don't want more of the same, we want something new.

What Sony has done (going by that conference) is taken all our favorite hand drawn animated cartoons and bastardized them with 3D computer animation instead of doing something original.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Correction from an earlier post

A smarter controller: I played SOCOM 4, a third person-shooter, with the Move pointed at the TV like a gun and the sub-controller in my left hand to command character movement. Wii games that were controlled with Remote and Nunchuk could be befuddled if the player pointed the Remote away from the screen. If you were playing a shooter and aimed just off the screen, the game's camera might start spinning or the game would pause and ask for the player to point at the TV again.

The guys from Ubisoft said this problem was solved with the inclusion of M+ and that you could technically even shoot at enemies that were off screen. They were playing around with it for Red Steel 2(I'm sure ShyGuy could find the interview).
Still not as accurate as PSEye/Move(for off screen tracking), but it works exactly the same as if someone where blocking the camera like the Kotaku person said.

In other words, there hasn't been anything to cry about since Metroid Prime 3 provided the re-centering Stand-By function for the cursor (and Conduit can wait where your cursor last left the screen).  For these shooty games, your TV screen is basically the available range of an Analog Stick, or better yet, a mousepad.  The camera will spin fastest when the cursor approaches the edges of the screen, so please, learn to not fly off your freakin' mousepad, last-generation gamers.  There was a time gamers were thought of as intelligent, adaptive, and dependable -- all myths?

If you can't positively see and interact with something on your screen, then the controls are not the issue, tell whoever it is to get the **** out of the way of your Casual Gaming.

[Ian Sane]

You say these things, but do YOU even want this?  What are you on?

Well I already have a PS3 and right now that plus the Wii is sufficient.  It's all about the games.  I'm pretty cynical about motion control.  I think, frankly, that it's a lame gimmick.  No one has sold me on it yet.  So we'll see if anyone can.  I'm not interested in Move until it shows me something that I just have to play.  Same with M+ (Zelda will probably do it).  I would see it more like a new console generation though.  I actually would probably wait until the Wii2 was revealed and factor that into my decision.
 
One thing to note is that no one really though a game were you have to pay $100 for a guitar controller would take off and even after it did people were skeptical about whether there was a market for a game that required you to buy several instrument controllers and yet it took off.  Now I know the music genre is fading out but if you make that game that people just HAVE to have, they'll spend the money.  No one but Nintendo thought that non-gamers would buy a videogame console but they did once they saw Wii Sports.  There could always be a game released for the Move that people are so interested in that they'll buy all the stuff they need for it without batting an eye.
 
What excites me about this is that it will put pressure on Nintendo to get their act together.  I feel they're coasting.  This eliminates the whole uniqueness of the Wii.  Hell, the Wii is, on paper, now disadvantaged.  The Move may never have a worthwhile game on it but the threat of that will keep Nintendo on their toes, at least at first.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Wii is an idea, not a controller.  The full spectrum encompasses:

- "Sports"
- "Fitness"
- "Racing"
- Lightgun & Classic "Arcadey" Gaming
- Nintendo's meaty adventures (which don't have as much pull as the top 3, believe it)

The music genre, platform agnostic, had an explosive period, but it's been steered to be unsustainable.  Wii's spectrum continues to keep it advantaged.  Sony's limited scope and experience is keeping them disadvantaged.  "SMove" has to demonstrate that copying one aspect of the Wii (and copying the fail'd knockoff software that flooded Wii) is sustainable, and not a fad.

Sony is 4 years late to Nintendo's game and almost halfway done with their PS3 "10-yr plan."  Will they spend the next 6 years copying more of their competitor's products?  Is this how it's supposed to move forward?

[Ian Sane]

 Sony is 4 years late to Nintendo's game and almost halfway done with their PS3 "10-yr plan."  Will they spend the next 6 years copying more of their competitor's products?  Is this how it's supposed to move forward?

I think this moves the PS3 forward a lot more than just doing nothing.  Times have changed and motion control is an expected feature.  So Sony has adapted their console accordingly.  Nintendo is behind the times as well, just in a different way than Sony and MS were.  And Nintendo is still behind while Sony is not.  The PS3 now has virtually no restrictions in regards to game design.  It has motion control, normal controls, multiplayer, online play, a hard drive, HD support, and it's the most powerful console.  If you want to make a game on the PS3 the sky is the limit.  If you can't make your game on that console you can't make it on any console.  But the Wii?  From DAY ONE it was restricted.  As a gamer I feel some admiration towards a company that provides options.
 
And copying the competition's idea is not always a bad thing.  If anything this ensures compatibility between PS3 and Wii motion controls.  Nintendo decided to be the oddball with the Wii and their third party support (or should I say OUR third party support since WE the Wii owners suffer for it) sucks because by being different they're incompatible.  If Nintendo had such a good idea why SHOULDN'T Sony copy it?  MS is probably shooting themselves in the foot because Natal is so different.  If a good third party game is made for the Wii (that's a big IF) porting the controls to the PS3 would not be that difficult.  But porting it to Natal might be a huge challenge.  Today the Wii just lost an exclusive with Aragorn's Quest.  It's not a big title but Sony just gained a multiplatform release.  That wouldn't have happened if Sony didn't do something fairly conventional.
 
It's not about being unique or different.  That's the sort of dumbass attitude that lost Nintendo the top spot in the first place.  It's about providing the best solution for your userbase.  And that means introducing new ideas, improving flawed ideas and using existing ideas that are already the ideal solution as they are.  Sony has noticed that their console lacks something that is pretty popular and now they've made that available to PS3 owners.  How is that a bad thing?  That's how the Playstation became successful in the first place.  Sony was flexible while Nintendo told you what you liked.

[vudu]

The PS3 now has virtually no restrictions in regards to game design.  It has motion control, normal controls, multiplayer, online play, a hard drive, HD support, and it's the most powerful console.  If you want to make a game on the PS3 the sky is the limit.

Unfortunately, no one will play your game because no one owns the damn console (and the few that do don't buy games for it).

[BlackNMild2k1]

BBC: PS Move... Wii's wand with a coloured ball at the top

After the announcement, the audience were given a chance to play around with the Move, which resembles Wii's wand with a coloured ball at the top.

Initial reactions were muted.

CNet's Dan Ackerman was less than impressed by the PlayStation Move
"I was disappointed with the amount of real innovation we saw. In terms of ideas, it is very similar to what we have seen with the Wii and if you are Sony, you can't help but want to ape that success," Guy Cocker, UK editor of gaming site GameSpot told BBC News.

The latest figures show that Sony has sold more than 33m of the PlayStation 3, PS3s, versus over 67.5m units for the Wii and more than 39m for Microsoft's Xbox 360.

Dan Ackerman, who is a senior editor with the review site CNet.com, said it is unlikely that the Move will present much of a challenge to Nintendo initially.

"Nintendo has such a lead in this market that both Sony and Microsoft are competing to be the number two choice in the living room.

"PlayStation Move isn't that innovative. It doesn't do anything that differently than the Wii but everyone feels they need to get into this space," said Mr Ackerman.

Microsoft plans to introduce a controller-free system known as Natal. It will let players operate Xbox games using gestures and body motions instead of pressing buttons or waving a device.

I can't wait for E3, good or bad, it's gonna be so entertaining!!

And copying the competition's idea is not always a bad thing.  If anything this ensures compatibility between PS3 and Wii motion controls.  Nintendo decided to be the oddball with the Wii and their third party support (or should I say OUR third party support since WE the Wii owners suffer for it) sucks because by being different they're incompatible.  If Nintendo had such a good idea why SHOULDN'T Sony copy it?  MS is probably shooting themselves in the foot because Natal is so different.  If a good third party game is made for the Wii (that's a big IF) porting the controls to the PS3 would not be that difficult.  But porting it to Natal might be a huge challenge.  Today the Wii just lost an exclusive with Aragorn's Quest.  It's not a big title but Sony just gained a multiplatform release.  That wouldn't have happened if Sony didn't do something fairly conventional.

Move over Wii, Sony wants to Play

[Chozo Ghost]

Nintendo is the only one that has to release a brand new console because their hardware is too out-of-date.

You sound like one of those analysts who are consistently proven wrong about the Wii, but keep making the same prediction over and over again as if waiting long enough will make it true. From what you're suggesting, it seems like you think the Wii is just a fad and will fade away, but that's what analysts have said about it from the beginning, and its still going strong.

Whether you think the hardware is out of date or not, the fact is its still highly profitable. That's all that matters to a business like Nintendo. Only fans like us care about graphics or A.I. Nintendo only cares about making money, and the Wii excels for that. Sure, the Wii 2 is in development and will come out whenever its supposed to, but don't count on Nintendo rushing it out just because Sony released a new $100 peripheral that may end up with a poor adoption rate. As you probably already know, peripherals seldom perform very well compared to bundled hardware. Just ask the 32x, Sega CD, or the 64DD if you don't believe me.

The Wii still has a lot of room yet for price drops and bundle deals to keep it going for a few more years. I believe by this point in the GC's life it was down to $99, but the Wii has only seen one price drop in its whole life. If the PS3 really starts to take off Nintendo could start doing that.

[NWR_insanolord]

From everything I've seen of this, it doesn't seem appreciably better than what's currently available on the Wii. It's yet another example of Sony blatantly copying something from Nintendo, which is annoying, but they've had a lot of success by doing that in the past. And in the end, if the software is there, I'll buy it. The Wii control scheme is capable of a lot of cool games that I'm very interested in seeing happening, and I'd prefer to see them realized on the Wii, but if this is the way they come then I'll play them that way.

[Stogi]

The Wii still has a lot of room yet for price drops and bundle deals to keep it going for a few more years. I believe by this point in the GC's life it was down to $99, but the Wii has only seen one price drop in its whole life. If the PS3 really starts to take off Nintendo could start doing that.

One price drop and One color....

/cry

[Ian Sane]

Whether you think the hardware is out of date or not, the fact is its still highly profitable. That's all that matters to a business like Nintendo. Only fans like us care about graphics or A.I. Nintendo only cares about making money, and the Wii excels for that.

I don't work for Nintendo.  All I give a damn about is what they do for me.  I want them to be profitable but only in a way that benefits me.  I had to buy a PS3 to get access to good third party support because Nintendo practically repackaged a Gamecube and called it "next gen".  They fucked up OUR third party support so they could make their console as cheap as possible and still make a profit on the hardware off of us.  They compromised the quality of their console and the quality of being a Wii owner to make an extra buck off of you and me.  You say Nintendo only cares about money as if it's a good thing.  Why does ANYONE on this forum act like that?  Are the Jonas Brothers the best band in the world because they make so much money?  I would assume that for anyone who truly has a love of videogames that money, sales, etc are irrelevent unless we're specifically talking about the business of games.  And even then it should entirely be related to how it benefits us gamers such as how it affects third party support, prices, the creation of sequels, localizations, ports to consoles we own, availablility of games in stores, and the continued viability of developers we like.
 
The Wii is out-of-date because it doesn't support features that ALL the competing consoles do.  The Wii is out-of-date because it misses out on almost every multiplatform game worth a **** because of it's glorified last-gen hardware.  It fails to suit my needs as a gamer because of it's inferior hardware.  Not because I just have a hard-on for specs but because of the real effect that the inferior hardware has had on the console's selection of games.  To properly serve my needs as a gamer, Nintendo needs to release a Wii successor by about late 2011 or so.  We're not Nintendo stockholders so we shouldn't care about how much money they make.  A company manipulating us for profit should be vilified, not praised.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I don't work for Nintendo.  All I give a damn about is what they do for me.  I want them to be profitable but only in a way that benefits me.  I had to buy a PS3 to get access to good third party support because Nintendo practically repackaged a Gamecube and called it "next gen".  They fucked up OUR third party support so they could make their console as cheap as possible and still make a profit on the hardware off of us.

Like 3rd party support was all that good on the GC and the N64?

The Wii is out-of-date [and] needs to release a Wii successor by about late 2011 or so.

That's how I've scheduled it my head.