Topic: Game Scalping

[EasyCure]

This branched off a derailing situation in the Wii Fit thread

I went around from store to store the morning it came out, buying one at 6 different stores. Then I sold them on eBay and got about $120 for each one ($30 profit per box).

no offense, but i hate people like you

[Morari]

I went around from store to store the morning it came out, buying one at 6 different stores. Then I sold them on eBay and got about $120 for each one ($30 profit per box).

no offense, but i hate people like you

Agreed.

[Pale]

I went around from store to store the morning it came out, buying one at 6 different stores. Then I sold them on eBay and got about $120 for each one ($30 profit per box).

no offense, but i hate people like you

Ditto.... minus the first three words.

[Kairon]

Geez guys. There's nothing wrong with that. This is America, land of the free and home of the ebay.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I hate people that hate people who hate laziness from those who supposedly want a game. 

[IceCold]

Didn't GP and Pale get into a huge argument about this?

[Pale]

Arguably one could say that scalping games is fine if the people purchasing them for the sole purpose of reselling are ALWAYS doing it by the same means as the people who want to play the game.  The problem is, as seen with concert tickets, if it is allowed to go on and supported, it will quickly evolve into people obtaining the products in unreasonable ways.

Besides that, there is no other way around it.  It is making money by taking direct advantage of other people, and that just isn't cool.  It's all the more frustrating that it is often done (and I am NOT calling anyone in this thread jobless, just stating a fact) by jobless people who make all of their money by gaming the system in some way.

[shammack]

Arguably one could say that scalping games is fine if the people purchasing them for the sole purpose of reselling are ALWAYS doing it by the same means as the people who want to play the game.

Wait, why would that be fine?

[Pale]

I was saying arguably, because one could pose that the people that end up paying the higher price could have just gone and buy it the same way the other person does.

I still don't agree with that either.  I was just pointing out that on some levels I don't see how anyone could claim there was nothing wrong with it.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I think companies should sell everything at cost so they aren't taking advantage of people.

[DAaaMan64]

So when Majora's Mask's MSRP was 79.99 and most every retailer sold it for 59.99, who's being taken advantage up?

[Pale]

Edit: in response to GP...

Hah, with all due respect, that is the silliest argument ever.  But you do have a flare for the dramatic.

A manufacturer creates a product, marks it up to a suitable profit, and makes it available to a retail outlet so that customers can get at it.

A retail outlet obtains a product from a manufacturer, marks it up again to cover their costs, and makes it easily available to a customer.

A scalper runs around and snatches up a product (often through means not available to the every day person) to create a false scarcity, marks it up, and takes advantage of a potential customer.

Scalpers make it so people's lives are more difficult.  If you can't see that, I'm sorry.

And please don't pick apart my generalizations with "oh except one time Wal-Mart screwed me" stories.

[Pale]

And by the way, I'm totally fine with free market economies.  My beef isn't with the price that rare items obtain on ebay... my beef is with how they became rare.

Anyone who doesn't see a problem with this can't tell me they are ok with lining up at a local box office for concert tickets for hours and hours in advance, only to find out that the best available a mere 30 seconds after they were supposed to go on sale is 10 rows back.

So it's perfectly fine that the only way you can sit in the front row is by paying off some guy who's friends with the right person?

[GoldenPhoenix]

And by the way, I'm totally fine with free market economies.  My beef isn't with the price that rare items obtain on ebay... my beef is with how they became rare.

Anyone who doesn't see a problem with this can't tell me they are ok with lining up at a local box office for concert tickets for hours and hours in advance, only to find out that the best available a mere 30 seconds after they were supposed to go on sale is 10 rows back.

So it's perfectly fine that the only way you can sit in the front row is by paying off some guy who's friends with the right person?

I think you are creating a straw man, we are talking about people who stand in line for hours and get something without any "inside" help. If people don't buy the products at excessive prices scalpers would go broke and wouldn't do it. So the consumer is just as responsible for being a lazy butt and decide to instead purchase it at a marked up value because they didn't want to stand in line early. It is basic opportunity cost, what is the opportunity cost for you not getting someplace early to get an item. Is it worth it to stay at home and purchase it on ebay or elsewhere where at a marked up value? I know with tickets or any item I take full responsibility if I don't get it. I should have gotten to a place earlier, and since I didn't I'll either have to wait or pay a higher price.  I try this concept of taking responsibility instead of getting after others who actually spent their valuable time waiting.

Also is there a particular reason why you are taking my comments so seriously? I was joking around about the selling at cost. In fact I don't see why you feel the need to attack me I wasn't insulting you nearly as much as you are insulting those of us who sell rare items on ebay.

[DAaaMan64]

His mom just touched him funny.

[Spak-Spang]

I have no problem with the fact that people can do this, I mean they are taking their time, and resource to collect a valuable and then sell it to someone else that wanted an easier convenience than waiting in line to get one.

The thing is, I hate that people are doing this.  It is a complete dick move.  You are robbing people that would have gone to the store the joy of picking it up, just for you to make $30.00 of profit.  It is basically being a complete asshole.

Hey, instead of thinking of yourself and profit, why not just buy the game, and allow the retailers, and the normal chains of commerce to work, so everyone that wants the game can get it for the retail price.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

His mom just touched him funny.

new meaning to "Wii Play" among "casuals"

[GoldenPhoenix]

I have no problem with the fact that people can do this, I mean they are taking their time, and resource to collect a valuable and then sell it to someone else that wanted an easier convenience than waiting in line to get one.

The thing is, I hate that people are doing this.  It is a complete dick move.  You are robbing people that would have gone to the store the joy of picking it up, just for you to make $30.00 of profit.  It is basically being a complete asshole.

Hey, instead of thinking of yourself and profit, why not just buy the game, and allow the retailers, and the normal chains of commerce to work, so everyone that wants the game can get it for the retail price.

Then aren't you robbing those who may not want to go to the store early but instead decide to wait and purchase it later? If everyone who wanted one got one at launch there would be no other outlet for those who wanted it but could not get it because it sold out (which a valuable item like Wii Fit would be with or without people trying to make a profit). It goes both ways.

Video games, tickets, and things like that are not things people need, and things people can wait on. If people didn't like the practice maybe they shouldn't by the items like what happened with the PS3 where the market tanked after launch, with many scalpers losing their butts. There is still risk involved.

[Pale]

I just think it's irresponsible for people to rationalize it as being fine.  Just admit that it's kind of a jack ass thing to do and be done with it.  And I did differentiate between the two types...

In my opinion, someone who gets up super early and waits in lines in order to buy a bunch of things and sell them on ebay for more money is just kind of an ass hole.

Someone who uses who they know to buy things early is a scammer.

And I'm sure the next argument will be "but they were available when I walked in so its ok."  Even if they were available, it doesn't change the fact that people will come after you looking for it.

And your latest rationalization of saying you are providing an outlet for those people that didn't want it at launch but wanted to buy it after it's sold out is frustrating too.  The point is that if scalpers didn't snatch them up they WOULDN'T be sold out as soon.  You are in essence screwing over a normal shopper in favor of someone who is ok with paying more money.

Why do you think stores are starting to put limits one how many of something people can buy?  Because they are sick of their customers getting screwed over too!

[ShyGuy]

TLDR;

The difference between a ticket scalper and someone who buys Wiis to sell on eBay is that a person who purchases a ticket to an event doesn't own anything, they merely get a license for a seat at the venue. The Venue owners have the right to set policy about reselling seats, thus anti-scalping rules. Since Wii-fit is an actual tangible item, it should fall under the rules of an open market and allow people to resell their own personal property.

[Pale]

That's an interesting vein of thought on the whole thing and very well might be the case in the laws, but I would have to say I disagree with it.  A ticket to an event in my mind is the equivalent of a product.  And I'm not really claiming it should be illegal, just that it's kind of a mean thing to do to other potential purchasers.

I guess I just wish the people who did it would man up and admit that they are doing it for their own personal gain instead of trying to paint it as if they are doing a service to others.  While they are at it, they shouldn't be surprised when someone says it's a pretty cruel thing to do when others are trying to find and purchase the game.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I'm not even sure your rude and foul language deserves much of a response Pale, you obviously feel the need to attack me when I haven't even attacked you. My point is that a company determining the value of a product based on what the market will accept is not that much different from the market determining the value of a product after it leaves retail shelves. If you want to get into "ripping" people off wouldn't Nintendo overcharging for the Wii even though it is almost a certain fact they are making tons of profit off it, they are charging what people will pay even though it is far and away more profit than the competition.

In regards to my point regarding selling one ebay to people who are willing to pay more for the comfort of staying at home. Well that is a secondary market that needs service as well for hot selling items. While it may take longer for a hot item to sell out without scalpers it will still sell out fast, and who is going to serve that other market? Believe it or not but the point of selling commodities is for personal gain whether it is on a corporate level or an individual level. I do NOT think it is unethical to buy non-essential items and mark them up, it is a luxury item not a need like food or medicine. Making a profit is not bad unless you are clearly trying to deceive someone.

Regardless I wish you'd tone down the language. I've been trying to keep it civil without calling people nasty names. Or saying how much I hate individual people (Seems pretty silly to hate people over entertaining related things).

With that said I'm going to step away from this. It will just go round and round causing my head to fall off.

[Kairon]

The only reason we see it as a "dick move" is because the companies are artificially mandating lower prices than a market would demand, usually for their own understandable reasons (public perception, or maybe to put pressure on competition). Resellers take advantage of that to fill an economical niche in the supply-demand equation?

[Ian Sane]

The difference between a ticket scalper and someone who buys Wiis to sell on eBay is that a person who purchases a ticket to an event doesn't own anything, they merely get a license for a seat at the venue. The Venue owners have the right to set policy about reselling seats, thus anti-scalping rules.

The "you buy a licence" thing is something that companies are starting to apply a lot.  They claim stuff like CDs and DVDs are merely licences to use the IP stored within.  I think that's total BS and I'm sure if the "licence" definition could be applied to all products they would try it.  The "licence" model is an off-switch that allows the manufacturer to decide when the product you bought is to break and require some other payment to keep working.  It's a scary idea so I consider a ticket to be a product that anyone can resell.

To me a big difference though is that a ticket is a very limited item and games typically aren't.  If someone stockpiles all the tickets to a show that really sucks because once that show is over, it's over.  If you want to go you have to pay the scalper if the event is sold out.  But someone buys all the Wii's at launch?  Well that sucks but I can wait for the product to become more available and it will.  Individual games are a little different but with consoles, there's more on the way.  So you're not forced to pay an inflated price provided you wait.  It's a bummer but at least there are options, unlike with tickets.

I have no problem though with stores offering limits on how many items one can buy.  I see grocery stores do that with sale items so it doesn't bother me.  I have no problem with the box office offering the same limit on tickets.  But I can't stand anti-scalping laws.  To me that's beyond the level of control government should have over someone.  So if any laws for example about this would gaming would bother me the same way.  But stores can put in limits, that's fine and I think it's a great idea.

Someone who scalps games is a bit of an assh0le but what can you do?  Being a jerk isn't against the law, nor should it be.  I don't really care so much though if these people jump through the same hoops that I have to to get the hot ticket item.  If you camp out, you earned it.  Now if you've got some sort of shaddy in, that's crap but I don't think that's very common with videogames.  I'm quite certain that's an issue with tickets but not with videogames.

[EasyCure]

i think i'm the only person here that knows where Pale is coming from.

GP, in none of Pales posts did it seem like he was calling you out or reffering to you specifically with any of his vulgar language. He (we) merely despise the act. We know nothing can change it, we just want the people to do it to atleast admit that what they're doing is hurtful to some people. It's the blind "we're doing a service for people who don't want to leave their home to shop, we're making it convenient for them" and not thinking about everyone else.
The group of people willing to pay such inflated prices for something like a Wii on sites like Ebay is a niche minority compared to average joes that would rather pay retail prices for something they want or rather have the security of picking up an item in-store, or even the people that simply can just barely afford said item and get robbed the opportunity of purchase. It's these people that scalping hurts, and it would be nice that it's admited; Scalpers hurt the average consumer.

Now imagine you're a scalper and you line up early to get the hottest new item so you can sell it for profit by whatever means you'd like, and the only other guy there was a scalper too and bought up all the allotted stock before you did. Wouldn't you feel like you were cheated? Thats why people on the side of the fence Pale and I are on think its "a dick move."

Re-selling items for profit isn't illegal (with exceptions like Event Tickets mentioned earlier) but that doesn't mean you're robbing tons of average people the opportunity to purchase something they'd like to own as well as taking away the freedom of a consumer to just walk into a store and leave with said item.

Edit to respond to Ians post:

Acquiring videogames with "some sort of shaddy in" is pretty common in my area actually. I know people who'll break street dates for their friends or hold off pre-orders and i think thats all BS. Do i care, not if it doesnt affect me of course but no matter what i think its a horrible thing to do. As for your comment on how ticket scalping and videogame re-selling is different, i see your point in how limited a ticket to a concert or even is. However i still think the whole "well too bad, wait for it" bit is BS. There are still people out there who can't find wii's because they're always sold out, so you have to wonder how many of those get sold out by re-sellers even now, a year after wii's release. A whole year later and people are still getting robbed out of the convenience of going to a store and picking up a wii just so someone with deeper pockets can hit "buy now" and get it shipped to him. That's just wrong in my book.