Topic: Game Scalping

[GoldenPhoenix]

Actually if a scalper bought everything before me good for him/her. I should have got there before them, though anytime I've done that the limit has been 1 per person except for tickets. But hey even then I didn't hold any grudges except for ONE time where I was in line for a ticket and the store decided to make it a lottery so all of us that were there for hours lost our place in line (In fact the front guy had to go near the back). Then again I think there was some shenanigans going on there that I'd really not like to delve into.

[Pale]

I'm not attacking you personally.  I'm stating that the act of hording a rare item (thus increasing its rarity) and then selling it at a marked up price is an ass hole thing to do.  I would state that same opinion regardless of who was the one doing it.

As for your direct points, I still think your secondary market hoo hah is a load of rationalized poo.  NONE of those people paying top dollar on eBay are doing it out of appreciation for the scalpers.  Do you seriously think people would rather pay a marked up price on ebay than pay list price on another real online store?  Come on.

There is also a HUGE difference between your free market concept and reselling horded items.  For example, companies WANT as many people to buy their product as possible.  Scalpers want VERY FEW people to buy the product at a marked up price from them.  Scalpers DON'T care about the general potential customer, real companies DO.  It is completely and totally different in almost every way.

[Maverick]

Is it a "dick-move"?  Yes.  Should be regulated somehow or made illegal?  No

It's just one of those shitty things that people do.  It isn't "wrong", it is perfectly within somebody's right to re-sell something they purchased for a higher price than they paid.  Something is only worth what somebody will pay for it.

But scalpers are still ass-holes.

[animecyberrat]

where'd my posts go?

[Spak-Spang]

I have no problem with the fact that people can do this, I mean they are taking their time, and resource to collect a valuable and then sell it to someone else that wanted an easier convenience than waiting in line to get one.

The thing is, I hate that people are doing this.  It is a complete dick move.  You are robbing people that would have gone to the store the joy of picking it up, just for you to make $30.00 of profit.  It is basically being a complete asshole.

Hey, instead of thinking of yourself and profit, why not just buy the game, and allow the retailers, and the normal chains of commerce to work, so everyone that wants the game can get it for the retail price.

Then aren't you robbing those who may not want to go to the store early but instead decide to wait and purchase it later? If everyone who wanted one got one at launch there would be no other outlet for those who wanted it but could not get it because it sold out (which a valuable item like Wii Fit would be with or without people trying to make a profit). It goes both ways.

Video games, tickets, and things like that are not things people need, and things people can wait on. If people didn't like the practice maybe they shouldn't by the items like what happened with the PS3 where the market tanked after launch, with many scalpers losing their butts. There is still risk involved.

As I said, I don't have a problem that people do it...or that they can do it (better)...I just hate that it is done.

What these "scalpers" are doing is taking advantage of the limited supply, just to make a quick buck.  And I believe they their actions are exploiting people, and exploiting Supply and Demand, and it is frustrating. 

If a game or system, or tickets or whatever comes out and people wait inline all over the world and make that choice that the product is worth it to them to get on day one...then they have equal chance or greater depending on their commitment level to wait for the product.  If it is sold out so be it.  Another shipment will come out eventually.  But the system gets broken when an E-bay seller is only waiting in line not for the desire of playing the game or whatever the product, but just to sell it again for more money.  For everyone of those Ebay Sellers that buys one someone waiting or line, or that goes to the store that wants to play the game loses out.  That SUCKS...and all for a few bucks?

What is worse, is some of these Ebay sellers are more like Ebay businesses and they buy several units and hold them until rarity...artificially creating more demand and rising the price. 

I think that is an extremely self-fish and annoying practice, that should not be encouraged, and really should be discouraged. 

[Flames_of_chaos]

I think in the US they are trying to crack down on ticket scalping since some companies created bots to buy all the tickets and now suddenly all tickets that went for an average of 40 - 250 dollars now are on ebay or another 3rd party ticket company for 400 - 5000 dollars or even more. I think that this really kills the economy and hurts a lot of legitimate customers just so a greedy organization or people can make an crazy profit.

I'm sorry GP but I'm with Pale and everyone and am against your beliefs. I remember the Wii launch how there were a lot of let down honest parents that missed the intentionally came down at 7am to buy a system and missed the ticket allotment or drove 40 - 100 miles just to try to secure a ticket. And there are also people who can't afford to camp out at like 5am not because they are lazy or want to buy it at a increased price but because they have other responsibilities or commitments such as work.

[Tanookisuit]

To chime in, I just disagree with GP's  assumption that there are only 2 types of people- those who can get up early and wait in line, and lazy people.  Many people, like myself, had to work the morning of release.  I personally can't believe it has sold out like this, due to the price point.  I should've reserved one.

I do think that people who go out and buy extra to sell on eBay are, indeed, jerks.  It's one thing 6 years from now when Wii Fit is possibly a rare collector's item, but on launch day it's just mean-spirited.  When the Wii launched, I got to a Sears at 5:30am to find two jerk-ass kids in the front of the line not there to buy a Wii, but simply there to SELL THEIR PLACE IN LINE.  I was unable to purchase a Wii from that location.

[ShyGuy]

I should make clear that I think stores should limit one per customer, not because it's a question of morality but a question of customer relations.

The problem with decrying this game scalping is that it's based soley on the motivation of the person purchasing the system. let me illustrate:

Person 1 buys a Wii after standing in line. The next day his transmission goes out and he has to scrape some quick cash together. He sells his Wii on eBay/Craigslist. Was he wrong?

Person 2 buys a Wii after standing in line for her boyfriend's birthday present. The next day they breakup. Wanting to get rid of the Wii she sells her Wii on eBay/Craigslist. Was she wrong?

Person 3 buys a Wii after standing in line. They intend to "scalp"l the Wii on eBay/Craiglist. Once they get the Wii home they decide to to give it a try and find out they love it, so they keep the Wii. Were they wrong?

[EasyCure]

I think that is an extremely self-fish and annoying practice, that should not be encouraged, and really should be discouraged. 

LOL! i'm sorry i just had to point that out, it made me crack up for some reaoson.

Flames of Chaos' post remind me of when i worked at the nintendo store for the wii launch and thats when i realized just how much scalping items suck.
I went to work at 7am and i saw a line wrapping around the block and it was one of the forst "whoa.." moments i ever had. My main job that morning was to keep unloading the wii's we had recieved everyday for about a week prior to launch, there were so many of them; you couldn't walk thru the offices or the employee break room w/o seeing wii's stacked up to the ceiling, lining the walls. We had a chain going, downstairs one crew would load boxes into the dumbwaiter, upstairs me and another cew would be stacking up wii's close to the door to hand out to the guys at the register. After doors opened it was my job to restock and open bags for the cashier to simply place the wii in and get the customer out the door quickly so we can serve the next customer. That whole launch week was like that and i saw some pretty f*cked up things.

First day there was an incident with a woman that one of our security gaurds noticed. A customers "sister" was waiting in line for her and handed off her bracelet to the paying customer.. at the cost of a few bucks. This "sister" was homeless woman that was paid to stand in the cold overnight just so some woman can show up whenever she pleased and cut hundreds of people in line. Sure she might of not been a re-seller and thus not really on topic with this thread, but thats still wrong.

Second day we busted some people that had tried to make elaborite copies of the wristbands we were using for the first few people that'd line up outside before employees got there, so we  can give them a break and let them go get breakfast or find a restroom.

Those were some of the major things i saw go down but not all. There were times when we'd get police to stop guys from selling their wii's down the street from hour store before they enticed an angry mob from the crowd towards what was probably close to the middle of the line. If you think getting cops involved is a bit drastic, know that in NYC you can't sell anything on the street w/o a permit. The crowd reactions to some shady guy walking away from the Nintendo Store holding a Wii over his head and yeling out prices was awesome though, lots of boo's and FU's. There were also situations where people would try to sneak their friends on the line, tons more homeless people being paid to wait out in the cold, and even we heard one guy tried to sell someone an empty wii box.

Ever since i saw this sort of thing first hand, i've hated scalpers. Before i used to think it wasnt a big deal and really didnt hurt anyone, not anymore.


edit: it wasn't a wristband system we used, it was a ticket system we used.

[Maverick]

First day there was an incident with a woman that one of our security gaurds noticed. A customers "sister" was waiting in line for her and handed off her bracelet to the paying customer.. at the cost of a few bucks. This "sister" was homeless woman that was paid to stand in the cold overnight just so some woman can show up whenever she pleased and cut hundreds of people in line. Sure she might of not been a re-seller and thus not really on topic with this thread, but thats still wrong.

Why is this wrong?  That woman agreed to a service for payment.  It doesn't affect anybody in line 'cause they would have been in the exact same place if the woman had not paid somebody to stand for her.  I'd do it for someone, but I'd charge a hell of a lot more than a few bucks.  I was tempted to give up my place for the Xbox 360 launch day to a kid offering 300 bucks for my spot.

[Pale]

I think the problem with that situation Maverick is that many people would view it as taking advantage of the homeless person and not paying them enough in return.

That's definitely going to be a gray area and peoples opinions I'm sure would depend on just how much they were getting paid to wait there.

[Maverick]

Eh, my point with that one is that it is NOT "taking advantage of" because it was a choice.  Obviously the few dollars she earned from the activity was worth it for her.  If I was homeless, I would take every opportunity to earn a few dollars to feed myself for the next day.

Wealth is relative, and priorities change based on responsibilities.  A homeless person's only responsibility is to survive from day to day, in this case the "work" of sitting in line for hours on end would be well worth a hamburger or two.  Obviously she felt the same.

Sorry, I'm teetering on total derailment.

[Pale]

No no, I hear ya.  But even though a homeless person may be totally happy with doing it for only 5 bucks, it won't change the fact that a good chunk of this world will still see it as taking advantage of them and their situation.

It's comparable to sweat shop factory conditions.  Every employee is doing it because some money is better than no money, but does it make it right?

[Maverick]

It's comparable to sweat shop factory conditions.  Every employee is doing it because some money is better than no money, but does it make it right?

If it's not forced labor, then yes it is right... wait a minute, you're trying to trap me in a political discussion aren't you?!   

 

[Pale]

Heh, no not trap you.  Just drawing the comparison.  For me to decide if either was right, I would want to be able to compare what they were being paid with the local cost of living and make my own judgement.  =P

[EasyCure]

i'm not going to get into a debate about a homless woman being paid to stand in line as unethical or anything towards said homeless.

The reason i brought it up was because it DOES affect the people in line. The woman that paid off the homeless woman was most likely someone local. By paying this person to stand in line all night, the real buyer got to go home and sleep in a nice warm bed while hundreds of honest people camped out for hours. That November 19th she woke up most likely at her regular time, had breakfast and pampered herself a bit before strolling up 48th Street a few mins before work to find her contact and see how far ahead in line she was. The homeless woman makes it to the doors, the Buyer pays her off in front of security who notice it and said something. The Buyer then starts a scene in which she's trying to pass of the homeless woman as her sister until she's escorted away by police. Was she escorted away because she paid a homeless woman to stand in line? No, she was escorted away because of disordely conduct in a place of businessl.

It may seem like it was harmless because it was just one person, and you figure that would only affect the very next person on line, but thats not looking at the big picture. If she had gotten that wii thru those means, hundreds of people would of gotten screwed because of that one person.

To me its not about legality, just about moral ethics. She could of been one of many people that paid another person to hold a place in line, but was just the only one caught. Anyone who was on that line with either intent to re-sell or got on the line thru shady means cheated everyone else who was waiting. The saddest part of all though isn't that nothing can really be done about it, but that nothing can be done because its just human nature. I remember when they needed an extra person to go out there and help count heads to see how many people were left before we ran out of wii's for the day. I'd walk up the block asking people to raise their hands only if they were the one buying (ie, if you're there to keep your brother/sister/boyfriend/girlfriend company, keep your hand down) and you'd see a few people raise their hands.. then you'd see tons more whispers in their friends ears, then more hands go up... You didn't have to hear what they said to know what there intent was. "well i've been standing here this whole time anyway, maybe i can buy one and sell it" Human nature is a disgusting thing sometimes.


edit: oh god pale and maverik C left out intentionaly are going to derail this thread too

[Flames_of_chaos]

Man EasyCure that sucks but I know its a common thing in NYC since I live so close to there and I occasionally visit there for fun. I wonder if I ever saw you in Nintendo World since I go there occasionally. But in Japan its the same thing like how for the PS3 launch wealthy Japanese people paid off poor Chinese people to wait in line buy a PS3 and hand deliver it to the wealthy folks home. There was a incident where Kutaragi was pissed since he was greeting the first few people who bought a PS3 at launch and of course the poor Chinese people wouldn't understand what Kutaragi is saying because Kutaragi is obviously Japanese.

[Maverick]

C left out intentionaly

Now that's just uncalled for.   

[animecyberrat]

Well since my posts all vanished into thin air I think I have to start over.

I was thinking though, if some states do outlaw scalping of tickets, couldn't they also outlaw the practice of doing the same for video games? But if they do that how do they regulate it?


I personally take this stance on the issue, if I buy something at a discount or get a good deal on it, I have no problem whatsoever marking it up to at or near it's regular cost or higher to make me a profit. I however will NEVER buy something brand new, mark it up above the retail price and deprive someone else of enjoying something I had no intention of buying otherwise.

The problem is, the people willing to pay the higher prices, they could all just end up waiting a few more weeks instead of falling into this trap. It is one thing to get all worked up for a rare item you know is going to be hard to get, but it is something else to pay a higher price for something you know is going to be around for a while and in mass production for a long time.


So in that sense, scalping something like WiiFit is just stupid and wrong I figure, but snatching a copy of Pikmin 2 at a yard sale for five bucks and tossing it up on ebay for a tidy profit, that is fine by me.

[EasyCure]

C left out intentionaly

Now that's just uncalled for.  

i was trying to lighten things up!

my bad

[Maverick]

Okay you're off the hook, but Pale still hasn't apologized! 

[UncleBob]

I would like to point out... someone mentioned earlier that the resellers run the risk of getting stuck with the product if they can't sell it.

While this is true for something like concert tickets, for items like Wii/WiiFit - it's not true at all.

Resellers know what they can/can't do - and they'll buy something (Wiis, Tickle Me Elmos, HotWheels, whatever) in large quantities.... selling them off at higher prices as long as possible.  If they get near the end of their return period (say 90 days at Wal*Mart) and it appears that they're not going to get a significant amount in exchange for the item, they will bring it back to the retailer and get their full money back.

So, in the mean time, a potential *real* customer is out of the option to buy the item.
The store is out the chance to make money on the item (at Wal*Mart, at least, we're not supposed to resell returned Wiis, we have to ship 'em back to Nintendo).

Now, take into account that the scalper probably didn't buy any games/accessories to go with it...

The store is going to get less systems allocated to them in following shipments.  Shipped quantities are directly related to same-transaction attach rates.  Meaning that even more "real" customers are going to lose out on the chance to buy a Wii at this store because the store didn't get as many (or any) in the next week.

Second, if the item *does* sell on eBay, it's going to be shipped somewhere else.  Meaning that the store's overall attach rate is going to fall, since the California customer that bought the Wii on eBay probably isn't going to drive to my Wal*Mart to buy their future games/accessories.  Meaning that the store is likely to receive even *less* Wii's because of this.  And less accessories.  And less new releases (both number of copies and assortment).  Which, again, means the customers get screwed.

[ShyGuy]

I can sympathize UncleBob, but those sound like problems that are up to WalMart to solve.

[Kairon]

Resellers are like parasites. No one really likes 'em, but they're a natural part of the world and who are we to argue with mother nature, or the tenets of capitalism?

[UncleBob]

I can sympathize UncleBob, but those sound like problems that are up to WalMart to solve.

Which they (and other retailers) do - by things like putting limits on purchases and forcing bundles onto customers.

Of course, then everyone whines about the limits and forced bundles.