Topic: GameCube’s Mid-Term Report Card

[odifiend]

Ian: my oversight on the Sega pseudo-sports, but when I originally said two games I was counting SMB 1&2.  I think their philosophy that PSO is original is crap.
Eidos, responsible for TS2, i didn't bash.  If that game was a monkey it would be... umm... donkey kong, even though he is an ape opposed to a monkey, well you know what i'm saying.
Oh and I completely agree with you that having the minor 3rd party developers is not a bad thing at all.

[Kyosho]

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It's impossible to prove indefinitely whether DVD playback or console color really are what's "dragging" Nintendo down, so to speak (really, there's not as much "dragging" as many of you believe), but it's my opinion that they affect sales very little.

MC, this is what I told consumers when I used to work @ EB whenever they asked me which console they should get:

If you want an Xbox, you get DVD playback, an internal hard drive, the latest graphics, a PC in itself, and sports games.  You will lack console-ish RPGs and quality 1st/3rd person adventure games.  Most of the library is less than stellar.  However if you're a sports fan, you will adore the Xbox especially when you play in high definition.  

If you want a PS2, you already get an outstanding library from PS1, as well as DVD playback, and a lot of support from many companies hence the vast library of games it already has.  The only negative is the hardware is a tad outdated at this time.  Buy this system if you want a wide array of game choices and are willing to sacrifice a little bit of hardware.

If you want a Gamecube, you get the Nintendo franchise games, these cute minidiscs, and quality 1st/3rd person adventure games like Zelda and Mario.  You will lose out on sports games because Sega is not going to make anymore sports games.  The library is smaller so you have less choice to choose.  You have the option to hook up your GBA to your Gamecube for certain games via a connector if that game has that option.  Buy this system if you like Nintendo's franchise characters or if *you* prefer to have your kid playing games that are presented more colorfully.

Those are the most NEUTRAL viewpoints that I can give.  I was absolutely not favoring one side, and I was just simply saying how it is

The outcome: If the mother's kid was less than 12 and was not technical savvy or did not have a rocking home theatre w/ big screen at home, they usually ended up buying the Gamecube.  Xbox's were sold most to young adults who were in college or ones that were uninterested in Nintendo's "kiddy" image at that time.  The PS2 sold the most simply because people bought it for GTA or liked it when I said "a wide array of games."  When it came down to second features such as DVD playback and such, many showed a lack of interest in the Gamecube because it has nothing to offer them outside of gaming.  So in essence, Nintendo did not really take a step forward.  The PS2 and Xbox both offered something for the ADULT who was buying the system for the kid a little incentive.  You see, Sony and Microsoft know how to market it well.  Not only is the kid happy, the adult was too.

So as you can see, Cowboy/Ian arent as wrong as you make them out to be.  

[odifiend]

My bad on forgetting Billy Hatcher too.  My brain just implements the defense of forgetting for games that I personally wish didn't exist.  I remembered about PSO 3 but felt no need to include as it is not out yet.  The main point of my rant a couple posts up is that Sega's huge games (games that sold well or games it and Nintendo pushed) were nothing more than ports.  Therefore to go out and buy a Dreamcast for $25 and the games for $10 is a cheaper solution and therefore I feel no gratitude toward Sega.

[Mario]

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If you want a Gamecube, you get the Nintendo franchise games, these cute minidiscs, and quality 1st/3rd person adventure games like Zelda and Mario. You will lose out on sports games because Sega is not going to make anymore sports games.

There's still EA sports games... honestly Sega sports games dont sell that well, EA sports games are much more popular, you dont lose out on sports games if you have a GameCube.

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Buy this system if you like Nintendo's franchise characters or if *you* prefer to have your kid playing games that are presented more colorfully.

Or if you like brilliant games? I know i dont buy a game for the franchise, i buy it if it's a good game.

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My bad on forgetting Billy Hatcher too. My brain just implements the defense of forgetting for games that I personally wish didn't exist. I remembered about PSO 3 but felt no need to include as it is not out yet. The main point of my rant a couple posts up is that Sega's huge games (games that sold well or games it and Nintendo pushed) were nothing more than ports. Therefore to go out and buy a Dreamcast for $25 and the games for $10 is a cheaper solution and therefore I feel no gratitude toward Sega.

Well PSO 3 is out in Japan, and it sold pretty well, not amazing, but good enough. Super Monkey Ball, Beach Spikers, Sega Soccer Slam and Billy Hatcher and the soon to be released Sonic Heroes aren't on DC. Neither is F-Zero GX, but im not sure if that counts as a "Sega" game.

[Kyosho]

Mario, the whole point of the post was to put up a neutral perspective at the issue of hand.  If I said Nintendo makes brilliant games, i'm letting my personal opinion become involved instead of just giving simple facts.  As for the whole Sega issue, at the time, I sold more Sega games than EA games for the Xbox.  For the Gamecube, well let me put it bluntly, very few actually bought sports for the Gamecube.  The control interface simply sucked compared to the PS2/Xbox.

[Mario]

Yeah i realise that, but saying

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If you want a Gamecube, you get the Nintendo franchise games, these cute minidiscs, and quality 1st/3rd person adventure games like Zelda and Mario. You will lose out on sports games because Sega is not going to make anymore sports games. The library is smaller so you have less choice to choose. You have the option to hook up your GBA to your Gamecube for certain games via a connector if that game has that option. Buy this system if you like Nintendo's franchise characters or if *you* prefer to have your kid playing games that are presented more colorfully.

isn't really putting GameCube in a positive light, why would anyone buy a GameCube after hearing that? How would they have any idea really great games like Animal Crossing, Viewtiful Joe, Super Monkey Ball, Pikmin etc. even exist? I wish people would actually play these games before dismissing them as kiddy crap, oh well. And yes i know how much sports games are sold on GameCube, not nearly as much as PS2 and Xbox, and i also know that EA sports games sell more than Sega sports games, by far.  

[mouse_clicker]

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Last time I checked it was the Xbox that had Panzer Dragoon Orca and the PS2 that had Shinobi, new expansions of Sega's classics.

And last I checked Shenmue 2, Panzer Dragoon Orta, Gun Valkyrieand Jet Set Radio Future all sold horribly on the XBox despite being very good games, and yet Sega continues to support it- makes you wonder what Sega's "motives" are, doesn't it? As for Sega classics, the Gamecube does have the most complete collection of Sonic games on any one system to date- I know that's not exactly the same thing, but you can't say the Cube is completely without classics.

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Oh yes we are getting Sonic Heroes, but since the game might actually be good, the game is to be released on all platforms.

Now that's purely your opinion- personally, I loved Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, and apparently so did the public because both sold very well- I believe SA2 even outsold its Dreamcast counterpart, which is pretty impressive for a port on a supposedly ailing system.

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Capcom promised us exclusive RE. They have since released RE on PS2 (not true sequels, yet, but still). Not that was really their fault (RE 0 sales weren't what they expected). We don't have Megaman X, no plans of getting Onimusha, no devil may cry which are games they are famous for. But Capcom is not nearly as bad as Sega as they have blessed us with VJ.

That's Resident Evil..... exclusive. Is there something you missed about that? Nobody wants to play Gun Survivor, it shouldn't even be considered a RE game! You also forget about Killer 7, Dead Phoenix (it is still coming out), and Gotcha Force.

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MC, I have to say I didn't get how purple and morality fit together, but Cowboy is right: its all about the image. The gamecube is not so uncool but purple wasn't all that becoming. It did look lame and I don't know a single person with a purple cube even though I know about 20 owners of the cube. What is more if you notice in recent Nintendo ads, Nintendo is pushing the platinum gamecube so even they relized this. Personally, I don't understand why they weren't pushing the black cube earlier.

Changing the color and design of their console just so their owners can look cool is not what I want Nintendo doing- read my editorial, because I really don't want to have to repeat that again and again. I know that purple isn't the BEST color to have chosen, I'm just saying it shouldn't be considered a reason for Nintendo's much heard of downfall. I agree that it would have been best for Nintendo to push the black Gamecube and simply offer the purple ones for those who wanted them, but I don't think it's worth crying over that they DIDN'T.

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Oh and as bad as Acclaim, Edios, and Atari are if they never supported the Cube we wouldn't have got Burnout 2, Timesplitters 2 and IKARUGA~ so although they for the most part suck I think having their support for the 1 or 2 good games they release every generation is worth it.

That I agree with, but remember that Acclaim, Eidos, and Atari didn't make Burnout 2, Timesplitters 2, and Ikaruga, respectively, they just published them- the the loss of the publisher doesn't necessarily mean the loss of the developer. Specifically, I believe Free Radical has a new publisher now, and Treasure has such a close relationship with Nintendo I wouldn't be surprised if they were made a future 2nd party. Criterion is the only real loss of the three, although it is a sore loss- Burnout 2 is one of the funnest videogames I've played in a very long time.

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It almost worked like GTA's streaming city. It wouldn't load the whole map at once, it would only load the room you were in. Then the game would detect where you were going and start loading the next section.

I'm pretty sure you're right, but I have heard another reason for that- I'll see if I dig up what I remember reading about it. Keep in mind, though, even GTA had to load between islands- True Crime is a better example, since its city is much larger than either GTA's and streams the entire thing, eliminating any loads whatsoever.

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isn't really putting GameCube in a positive light, why would anyone buy a GameCube after hearing that?

I have to agree with you there, Mario- Kyosho's descriptions don't sound too neutral. Here's what I would have said:

With a PS2 you get DVD playback right out of the box, PSX playback, and a very broad variety of titles that suit almost any need. Specifically RPG's are abundant. Online play is available and supported.

With an XBox you get DVD playback with the purchase of a kit, great graphics, a hard drive (which means no need for memory cards), and a library of PC style games. Online play is available and heavily supported.

With a Gamecube you get great graphics, Nintendo's wordclass games (such as Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc), and the ability to connect to the Gameboy Advance. Online play is available.
       

[Mario]

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And last I checked Shenmue 2, Panzer Dragoon Orta, and Jet Set Radio Future all sold horribly on the XBox, and yet Sega continues to support it- makes you wonder what Sega's "motives" are, doesn't it?

Interesting fact, Sonic Adventure 2 on GC has outsold every single Xbox Sega exclusive combined, hows that for a good lol.

Your descriptions are much more fair mouse clicker. If i was a casual gamer who had no idea what to get, after hearing those descriptions i would be forced to actually check out the exclusive games for each console then make a decision that best suits my gaming needs. Bah, as if a casual gamer would think like that . It really annoys me how some people buy an Xbox for sports games that are available elsewhere, or buy a PS2 for Tony Hawk or Lord of the Rings. Oh well.

[Kyosho]

Neutral means favoring no specific side, positively or negatively.  I simply stated exactly what is factual and advertised by the respective companies.  You will also noticed I listed BOTH Pros and Cons.  Mouse you pretty much said exactly what I said for PROs.  When you sell consoles, people will also ask what are the CONs of a system.  It's easier to distinguish between systems that way unfortunately.  If you're one-sided, you can always boast more about your favorite system.  I never did that because I didn't own any of those systems, and I was following protocol by being professional about it.  I only bought the Gamecube after I quit EB.  Also one more thing, those are not the exact words I chose.  Those are a summation of what I've said in conversations.  Conversation usually begins "What kinda games are you interested in?" And that's when you start talking about stuff.  But if you just ask for an overall summation of each system's weak and strong points then you would get something similar to that.  Most casual gamers if not all that have asked were able to make a decision on the spot (with some more thinking obviously) after I gave them that explanation.  If they had a confused look, I would further ask them some more questions to become more knowledgeable of the tastes for that particular person, and then go from there.  The main point is to inform, the second point is to sell.  

At the time I was working, Viewtiful Joe was not even close to being out, and Animal Crossing was bought mainly by younger people.  Maybe nationwide statistics show EA coming on top on their sports games, but I've had more customers come back saying that EA sports games are worse than their Sega counterparts for certain sports.  I've played almost the whole entire GC library while I was working there, so it's not like I didn't know what I was talking about.  If people were interested in the Gamecube before they asked me, it was because their friends had SMB or Nintendo-franchise related, so you may rule that assumption out.  

THat's not to say I didn't sell GameCubes when people came up and asked me questions.  You guys should both work in retail to get the idea of what people are wanting in their systems as well as what types of people buy what instead of basing this on statistics and your own assumptions.  Much of the conflicting opinions are also demographic related.

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It really annoys me how some people buy an Xbox for sports games that are available elsewhere, or buy a PS2 for Tony Hawk or Lord of the Rings.

It's because Xbox is THE best system for sports for the adult sports fanatic.  The controller is more comfy in their hands, and what else better than playing on their high definition TV via component adaptors? Other systems may also support HD, but none have come as crisp as the Xbox's sports games.  The CSR are there to help you choose what is BEST for YOU, not what is the BEST system.  The day someone tells me to buy a Gamecube for sports games is the day I quit console gaming.

[mouse_clicker]

Unless you're asked bu the customer themselves, you don't list any cons when you're trying to sell something, Kyosho. In addition, you weren't just giving "Factual" statements- you were giving your opinion in some areas and hinting in others. It was not a balanced comparison.  

[odifiend]

I hate to be a Sega basher again, but SA DX added nothing really great to the Dreamcast original.  As for SA: Battle, I own it and have beaten it to completion but I played the original SA2 extensively before I got it.  Except for the new multiplayer levels and the addition of Green Hill it is unchanged (also they changed the much better Dreamcast unlockable costumes into the redundant costumes on the GC).  Still, the public I don't think loved the SAs as much as they simply loved Sonic.  Also you compare GC sales to Dreamcast sales?  The Dreamcast when it got SA2 was about ready to be dropped in favor of the PS2.  Sega was also probably near bankrupt because I don't remember seeing very many adds for the game in the US.  SA2: Battle however was hyped as the 1st time Sonic would be on a Nintendo system, hell I even saw Nintendo ads on MTV, Cartoon Network and other widely watched stations.  The situations were different so comparison here means nothing.  Sega used the hype of SA2B to sell their prequel along with lower price tag.  Good for Sega, that's good business but that doesn't mean their games, especially DX, were good.
About resident evil I just find it a bad sign that Capcom is searching for ways to get out the exclusive deal.  I've already heard that Capcom meant RE 4 exclusive only.  Well that is good now, what does that mean for RE 5?  Capcom because of lackluster sales has been forced to take back the flagship of their deal with Nintendo.  It just looks bad, that's all I was saying.  I didn't forget about Killer 7 and I don't know if things have changed (they might have and I missed it) but it seems that Dead Phoenix is on the very downlow right now.
MC: I'm not crying over the color.  It's just that you  are famous for your line, "you think you can run Nintendo better than Nintendo."  The color issue could have been easily spotted and even more easily resolved.  Instead it took Nintedo a year to release the Platinum cube and about another year to start selling the cube as platinum as opposed to purple.

[Kyosho]

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Unless you're asked bu the customer themselves, you don't list any cons when you're trying to sell something, Kyosho. In addition, you weren't just giving "Factual" statements- you were giving your opinion in some areas and hinting in others. It was not a balanced comparison

Again, you should work in retail.  It's better to not have a pissed off customer coming back saying "he didn't tell me this."  Like I said before, #1 = inform, #2 = sales.  After you inform, then you leave him/her their own decision.  Any consequences will be their own fault, not yours.  I've seen employees/co-workers get hassled around because they don't inform about cons.  There is always a little catch in everything you buy.

Now that I look back, yes I did give an opinion, but it was an opinion built on experience instead of personal preference.  That's where a biased opinion and a neutral opinion comes into play.  When I had first started, I gave mostly pros for each system.  Did it really pay off? No.  I've sold more systems giving a full breakdown of each system than just skirting only the good stuff about each system.  

And about the color thing, to be quite honest, I would never have bought a Gamecube if it was only available in purple.  Thank God for black and platinum.  Simply didn't match the furniture, and it's just a very weird color to be seen on a TV stand.

[mouse_clicker]

Odifiend, all you're doing now is whining about how you didn't like SA 1 or 2, then make excuses for why it sold so well on the Gamecube- if people bought it simply because it was Sonic, why didn't Super Mario Sunshine sell a lot better? Maybe comparing sales of SA2:B to the Dreamcast vcersion wasn't very accurate, but like Mario pointed out, it sold better than all of the XBox's exclusive Sega games combined- the fact of the matter is, it sold very well, despite being an old Dreamcast port with, as you put it, little more than a few multiplayer additions. I find no reason to believe what you said about Resident Evil- REmake sold some 800,000 copies, which, although no being on the same level of the PSX games, is not bad at all. I believe RE:0 sold around that number, so the sales are only lackluster when compared to what they would have been on the PSX/PS2. Then again, Capcom knew they were going to take a sales hit when they released the games on the Gamecube- almost ANY game would sell better on the PS2.  

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Now that I look back, yes I did give an opinion, but it was an opinion built on experience instead of personal preference. That's where a biased opinion and a neutral opinion comes into play. When I had first started, I gave mostly pros for each system. Did it really pay off? No. I've sold more systems giving a full breakdown of each system than just skirting only the good stuff about each system.

Then I would say this: The PS2 is admittedly weaker, not always that reliable, and has quite a few mediocre games. The XBox can be just as unreliable as the PS2 and will only really appeal to people who like PC style games. The Gamecube will only really appeal to people who like Nintendo's style, whatever that may be, and doesn't have much of a variety beyond that, as well as having almost no online support.

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And about the color thing, to be quite honest, I would never have bought a Gamecube if it was only available in purple. Thank God for black and platinum. Simply didn't match the furniture, and it's just a very weird color to be seen on a TV stand.

That's what I call being shallow- it's pathetic that you would actually refrain from buying a console because it "simply didn't match the furniture"- are you listening to yourself? I can understand buying a black Gamecube over a purple one for this very reason, but to actually not buy a console AT ALL because of such a materialistic reason is one of the saddest things I've ever heard. Kyosho, that has dispelled any respect I had left for your opinion- how the hell can I debate with someone about image when he would rather look cool than enjoy himself? This is over.  

[NWR_Lindy]

Originally posted by mouse_clicker:

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With a PS2 you get DVD playback right out of the box, PSX playback, and a very broad variety of titles that suit almost any need. Specifically RPG's are abundant.

With an XBox you get DVD playback with the purchase of a kit, great graphics, a hard drive (which means no need for memory cards), and a library of PC style games.

With a Gamecube you get great graphics, Nintendo's wordclass games (such as Mario, Zelda, Metroid, etc), and the ability to connect to the Gameboy Advance.

MC, you completely left out online gaming in these descriptions, like it's a total non-factor in anybody's buying decision.  You gotta add that in to make these lists completely unbiased.  If I was a sports fanatic (for example), the ability to play/not play sports games online would definitely factor in to any console purchase.  Same thing with RPGs - someone that loves the Final Fantasy series would find FF Online very tempting (although this isn't the best example since FF fans would likely have the PS2 already, but you get the point).

Also, I think the Gamecube color issue was huge.  It left a really bad first impression.  The public was waiting for something really slick-looking, and instead they get this off-the-wall purple lunchbox.  Personally I didn't care (I'll always buy a Nintendo console regardless) but I'm certain most people were like, WTF?!?!  The whole purple thing gave those that regard Nintendo as "kiddie" even more ammunition, and made it easier for a lot of people to go with the incumbent PS2 strictly on aesthetics alone (whether it's shallow or not, it happens).

The bottom line is that a purple Gamecube looks like a toy for kids, while a PS2 looks like a stereo component and therefore a toy for adults.  The XBox is just fugly, and yet it still looks better in a stereo rack than the Gamecube.  You can't discount aesthetics - the GameBoy Advance SP has proven that (why do you think it got write-ups in moronic magazines like Maxim and FHM?  Because it looks cool).  The average gamer is now 29 years of age (link), and 29-year-old gamers want cool-looking equipment.  They don't want stuff that looks like a Fisher-Price toy.

silks

[DrZoidberg]

i have a purple cube, it's homo-erotic powers make me a hit with the ladies. i would rather get purple than black/platinum, those colours are too generic. i'm glad more than one colour cube is available, pleases everyone.

[mouse_clicker]

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MC, you completely left out online gaming in these descriptions, like it's a total non-factor in anybody's buying decision.

Honestly, that was a mistake- I'm REALLY sorry about that. Online play should go under advantages for PS2 and XBox and disadvantages for Gamecube. Seriously, I was so bent on the games I forgot that. I edited my posts to include it.

As for image, I am NOT saying the purple Gamecube was the RIGHT move- stop assuming! I was simply saying that it's not THAT big of a deal- the only person I've met so far that would actually refrain from buying a Gamecube if it were only offered in purple is Kyosho, and that should go a long way towards discrediting anything he's said. Yes, Nintendo should have pushed the black Gamecube from the beginning. No, it was not that big of a deal.  

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The average gamer is now 29 years of age (link), and 29-year-old gamers want cool-looking equipment. They don't want stuff that looks like a Fisher-Price toy.

Obviously they're insecure- people shouldn't care what their equipment looks like- it's quite ironic that a 15 year old boy, essentially, is telling you this. I understand the whole matching thing, but the world won't end if everything isn't the same monotone color.

[Kyosho]

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Then I would say this: The PS2 is admittedly weaker, not always that reliable, and has quite a few mediocre games. The XBox can be just as unreliable as the PS2 and will only really appeal to people who like PC style games. The Gamecube will only really appeal to people who like Nintendo's style, whatever that may be, and doesn't have much of a variety beyond that, as well as having almost no online support.

That is perfectly acceptable.  Seriously, Mouse, get a retail job @ a video game store.  That will clue you in as to what I'm talking about.  For now, you're just trying to defend yourself using hypothetical logic.

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Obviously they're insecure- people shouldn't care what their equipment looks like- it's quite ironic that a 15 year old boy, essentially, is telling you this. I understand the whole matching thing, but the world won't end if everything isn't the same monotone color

it's not ironic at all.  If anything, this just shows how ignorant some people are.  This is where age is a factor.  As you grow older, you will see that there are reasons for multi-toned colors in furniture.  You will see what happens when something does not match.  Maybe for you, it's a TOY, but for me it's a TOY and a piece of furniture that I set next to my TV.  If only one is satisfied, then it's not worth it for my earned $$$ to be spent on it.  It's easier to say "it's purple who cares" when your parents buy it for you.  You never see someone with a beige desk, rosewood drawer, and black bookshelves unless they have severe bad taste.

I guess this thought has never occurred to you... why would Sony and Microsoft make the color of their consoles black and not puce or green? Just think about that for a second.  

[mouse_clicker]

Kyosho, the shallowness you have depicted in this thread has been deplorable, and I quite simply cannot debate with someone who cares more about image than quality. I'm not going to regard anything you say henceforth because the simple fact that colors matching matters more to you than the actual games negates pretty much anything you have to say on the subject. Maybe because you're "older" you can't understand that image means jack diddly squat, that it should not be the trump card, but I do understand it, as do many, many others- in fact, it's almost the definition of being a Nintendo fan, not caring about how something LOOKS, but rather how it PLAYS. I don't care if you just plain DON'T like Nintendo, but I will not stand for this. I'm surprised you can even carry on after making such a comment.    

[weyoun6]

After Reading this thread I finally decided to jump in. I am new to PGC, having just recived a Gamecube for christmas (My first console since NES). I'm a PC gamer, and I like to play what I concider "intelligent" games, i.e. SimCity, Strategy games, etc...  
Many of my friends like Nintendo games, which is why I got one. However, most people are not like me. The casual gamer - when making a purchase, does not research online to see which has the best games, or most beloved following.
The casual gamer (the people who buy 98% of all games out there)  goes by word of mouth, what they see, and what the salesman tells them. When the casual gamer steps into his/her local gaming store, the first thing they will notice is the style of the console (yes, style does matter, otherwise cell phones would not be replaced by teenages every year, and the list will continue on in the reasons) The second thing they will see is the quality of graphics - You see things like "gameplay" and "quality" do not come out of a few minutes with a system. "Gameplay" does not sell. The last thing before the store rep comes up to bug them, is the vast shelves of games for the xbox and ps2, whilst the gamecube is stuck in the deep corner. If they see a gamecube at all - first impression (which does matter) will be
1. Not many games
2. It's purple
3. its cheap.

Now, the majority of people are not die hard gamers, the just simply want to have some fun after working, or to bring some friends over to play games. What do you think that person will do when confronted with this situation? Of cource they will go for the flash, most people do not have the time to burn to be come knowlegable about gaming. All they want is a diversion. so they buy the PS2 or Xbox, because their friends have them, and they look better than that thing in the corner that looks like a giant lego block with a handle.
If they do any research at all, they'll see that most reviews of multi system games , the gamecube is last as to which is the "better version" And unfortunatly to the people who love nintendo games, like my self, being 3rd place  does not help to be inspired for the future. Most of the games on the cube are quite excellent. but they are not revolutionary. To be successful - they need to be stunning - to make a statement. People need to say - I WANT that! when they see it. And thats just not the gamecube.  

[KDR_11k]

They should make the N5 white and include instructions on how to paint it...

[skyline]

MC, being 15 quite honestly puts you in a different mindset than the 20-something year-olds on this thread. I wouldn't go so far to say that I wouldn't have purchased the gamecube just because it was purple, but believe me, when I was waiting in line on launch day (nowhere near the lines for the ps2, may I add), I was telling myself that if they ran out of the black console I would have waited or went elsewhere to get it, I would never have bought the purple one. Even after I got the black one it still seemed too "kiddy" to put in my hi-tech home theater setup so I bought the Panasonic Q, which is definitely better looking than anything out there. Nintendo caters to the Japanese much more than to us Americans. Different colors for consoles work in a place like Japan. Sony has like 8-10 colors available, M$ has a white and grey Xbox, and Nintendo got orange, red, green, and hell, even striped. But in the US, you got black, and well, more black. Different colors just won't work in the US. Sony and M$ targets the young adults, and well, Nintendo targets the kids, which explains why you defend them the way you do. Of course color / design sophistication / online play isn't important to you, since you are the age group that Nintendo is pursuing, and those things aren't really important for a person your age (at least they weren't really important to me when I was 15). What you have to understand is that the gamers who have stuck by Nintendo for 20+ years want to stick by Nintendo, but the company is refusing or having a hard time "growing up," if you will. This caused many players to jump ship and defect to Sony. The problem is your age and the mindset it brings to the discussion. Now that I am 23, I definitely think that there are more things that are important about consoles, not just the quality of its games. It's like everything else in life. When you're 15, the important things in life are probably getting your permit / license, high school, getting a car, friends, even video games. As you grow older, you will find that other things will start to eclipse those in importance, such as what college / university you want to go to, dating, your job / career, even marriage. You see that as you get older, your wants and attitude about certain things change. That's why you don't care about the color of the console, online play, machine design, etc. for your gamecube but one day you will care like the rest of us. You are at a very young age, too young in fact to really understand some of the concerns made in this thread. Someone like you who has grown up in the post-Nintendo dominated era will never truly understand the disappointment that us gamers had to go through when Nintendo slipped from an undisputed first to a distant third. We experienced Nintendo and the revival of the gaming industry first-hand. We grew up as Nintendo grew up. Now our tastes have become much different, but Nintendo does nothing to cater to us anymore. They try to create another generation of gamers as they did us, but it won't work if you are in a distant third place. In fact even little kids that I see when I go to EB, Gamestop, etc. play PS2 and XBox, and the Gamecube at the other side of the store empty and secluded. We don't want that. Our demands of a realistic Zelda, DVD or multimedia playback, online support, a sophisticated looking machine, etc. go unheeded. If you have been following the news lately you will see that things are becoming more and more consolidated. Game machines that act as DVD recorders and players, with hard drives and a TiVo-like function (sound familiar?). These will eventually replace all the devices you have in your living room. Even PDAs / cell phones are merging. Everything is about consolidation and all-in-one, and that is where the industry is headed. Nintendo better highlight this in the next generation. As I read this thread I saw that people were mostly making valid comments about what Nintendo is doing wrong. The reason why you fight back the way you do is really because of your difference in age, experience with Nintendo, etc. that is crucial with understanding the general discussion at hand.

One more thing: Quality does portray a lot about image. If you make a purple plastic console that appears low in quality, it will severely hurt your image, no matter how high quality your games are.

[odifiend]

MC: what the hell are you talking about SMS didn't sell well?  It just didn't meet Nintendo's expectations for a Mario title, largely due to lack of people owning a GCN at the time.  You also have this ability to completely miss what people are getting at simply by locking in on one sentence.  I said that SA 1&2 (GC) were not high calibur games especially for this generation.  I explained that it was largely due to advertising that the games sold.  What your saying now based on your comment is that if a game sells well, it is good.  Ever here of Enter the Matrix or DBZ: Budokai?  Also what does it matter if the two Sonic games released on the Cube sold better than any of the XBox exclusive games?  My issue is with why they exclusive in the first place with the great relations that you claimed Sega and Nintendo have.  Why are they exclusive if they'll just sell poorly on the XBox?
Re: RE, you said it yourself compared to the PSX sales they were nothing.  In fact were did you get the # 800k because I really doubt it.  Most people in Japan refused to buy it because they already played it and you should know about Nintendo's success with the older crowd in North America.  Give me a URL.

[BigJim]

Late to add this, but:

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-965830.html
"Analysts estimate that building the global network for Xbox Live will account for at least a quarter of the $2 billion Microsoft has said it intends to spend to establish its video game console."

It's a long-term expense plan, but they obviously don't expect to ever break even, much less make a profit, because even if there were 10 million Xbox Live users, it'd still take 50 years worth of subscriptions to break even without some other kind of revenue generated from it.

So it's not profitable. If these numbers don't make it obvious, absolutely nothing would convince 'em.  

[Cowboy Bebop]

Mouse, as I said before you and I may find it wrong (sorry Kyosho) that someone wouldn't buy a console because of it's color and shape, but that doesn't mean people don't.  It's a reality.  "Shouldn't" does not equal "Don't".   Just because you don't know anyone that thinks that way doesn't mean a large number of people don't.  How many 20+ friends do you have?  How many 30+ friends do you have?  How many married friends do you have?  I agree with you it shouldn't matter, but that doesn't change the fact that it does.  Take a look around your school, how many people there are concerned about their image.  I'd guess at 90% or better.  Are you saying that Nintendo should ignore 90% of the population?  Judging by your previous arguments I'd guess you'll say they shouldn't.  I would have happily bought a purple GameCube if that was my only choice, but luckily it wasn't.  I paid extra to import my spice cube from Japan, mainly because the purple and black ones released at launch in the US didn't appeal to me.  I would have gotten a platinum one if they had been available.  Just because I'm concerned with aesthetics does that make me shallow too.  You can disregard my comments if you want to because of it, but I've gone out of my way to not discount your comments as those of just a 15 year old kid.  But, like it or not, age does color ones opinion.  I'm over twice your age (33).  I've owned just about every game system from the original stand alone Pong up to a GameCube and PS2.  As they came out.  You can look back at the NES and SNES days and say in your "Editorial" that they didn't have crap games back then and the ones they did have floundered on the shelves.  Having lived through it I can say that's not true.  There's been plenty of crappy games on every console.  There were plenty of crappy games that sold tons of copies based on Image alone.  "E.T." for the Atari 2600 being just one famous example.  It's not a new phenomenon.  I think my age gives me a broader perspective then someone who has just been involved in this generation and the last.   That doesn't make me right and you wrong, but I think it does show that I'm basing my opinions on more experience then you.  I may disagree with you, but I don't think I have the right to disregard your opinions.  No matter how naive they may seem.  Just as you shouldn't disregard someone's opinion.  No matter how shallow it may seem.

[Cowboy Bebop]

Quote
Originally posted by: BigJim
Late to add this, but:

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1106-965830.html
"Analysts estimate that building the global network for Xbox Live will account for at least a quarter of the $2 billion Microsoft has said it intends to spend to establish its video game console."

It's a long-term expense plan, but they obviously don't expect to ever break even, much less make a profit, because even if there were 10 million Xbox Live users, it'd still take 50 years worth of subscriptions to break even without some other kind of revenue generated from it.

So it's not profitable. If these numbers don't make it obvious, absolutely nothing would convince 'em.

Nice link BigJim.  I guess I was wrong, Microsoft is losing money on Xbox live.  Your math is wrong though.  It would take one year of Ten Million Xbox live users to break even, ten years at one million users, and 20 years at the current 500 thousand subscriber level.

That 500 million probably also includes advertising and incentives to developers to include live support.   The costs are spread over 5 years.  Also, the majority of the costs are a one time fee.  A fee that will have to be paid at one time or another by anyone entering the on-line market.  This generation or next.  They're also building their own proprietary network, instead of using the existing infrastructure.  Which is more expensive then Sony's approach.  It also doesn't necessarily prove on-line is unprofitable.  It just shows Microsoft's on-line plan is unprofitable.  Microsoft's plans for the Xbox as a whole are unprofitable, so your argument would state that all games consoles are unprofitable.