Topic: Nintendo online argument

[denjet78]

GAH!!!

All these people complaining and whining about stuff that they don't even need to play games online! You don't need all of the features of Live to play games online. All you need is a way to connect 2 or more players and then P-L-A-Y! What is this online experience that everyone wants that doesn't even involve games? You want voice chat, you want IM, you want to be able to send pictures and video back and forth. Um... do you intend to actually use this network for what it was intended for EVER?

Whine whine whine whine whine!

I hate online because of all the crap that goes along with it. Having to deal with morons all day long, random retards. Being yelled at by people because I'm a "noob" or some other such garbage. Treated like crap by more experienced players because I can never seem to find anyone on my level. You know, people who just want to play games to have fun, not to vicariously lust over slaughtering your friends digitally.

Nintendo's Friend Codes do away with all that extraneous crap. I don't care if "hardcore" (whatever that means) gamers think they're just to protect the "KIDDDYZ" because they're not. They clean the whole situation up. You want to play with someone, you give them your friend code and they give you theirs. And then... now guess what? I know this is going to scare some of you because I didn't even know you could do this either but...

YOU PLAY THE DAMN GAME!

Developers are pissed off because they can't use all the other extra features to distract from the fact that most online games blow. If you didn't have the ability to talk smack to your buddies most people who do play online games currently, wouldn't. The whole situation has just gotten way out of hand.

As soon as someone can actually prove that Nintendo's online strategy is hurting online gaming (See that key word there: "GAMING". Not "extra crap that I can do just becausing", but gaming.) then you'll actually have a point. But you won't because you can't. Developers can still make all the same games that they do for other platforms no matter how much they whine and insist that they can't. Again, you're just connecting player "A" to player "B". What's the problem? And yes you can even have voice chat. If Nintendo did it on the DS they can sure as hell do it on the Wii. They're just cutting through all the extra muck and getting right to the heart of the matter: Playing games.

Sometimes I wish the internet had never been invented...

[Pittbboi]

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All these people complaining and whining about stuff that they don't even need to play games online! You don't need all of the features of Live to play games online.

It seems like you missed out on the last page of this thread. Nobody wants Xbox Live. We want an online service that works and isn't going to turn of developers for any reason. You may have a strict criteria for what makes an enjoyable online gaming experience, but not everyone does. And frankly, if Mortal Kombat doesn't have online features for the Wii version (and the Wii version only), and Square-Enix is having problems realizing any of their online visions due to Nintendo's rigid restrictions, I think that's valid cause for worry for the Wii's online offerings, and desire to complain.

You can hate online gaming all you want, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

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As soon as someone can actually prove that Nintendo's online strategy is hurting online gaming (See that key word there: "GAMING". Not "extra crap that I can do just becausing", but gaming.) then you'll actually have a point.

*cough* http://www.joystiq.com/2007/02/01/square-enix-blames-wii-friend-codes-for-lack-of-ffxi/ *cough*  

[Smash_Brother]

Personally, I want to see Nintendo franchises online because I think they have more promise online than most games.

Wii Sports online? HELL yeah! Excite Truck? Ditto. Animal Crossing where you don't have to worry about connecting and telling people you're going to be on every time you want to visit a friend's town? Online MK battle games? Online SSBB? Red Steel 2 with online swordfighting?

You don't get these types of experiences online from other franchises: generic racers and shooters just don't pack the potential punch that Nintendo's franchises can if they go online.

[Crimm]

Granted, FFXI is dead now.  But still, this could roll over into other S-E projects.

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi

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All these people complaining and whining about stuff that they don't even need to play games online! You don't need all of the features of Live to play games online.

It seems like you missed out on the last page of this thread. Nobody wants Xbox Live. We want an online service that works and isn't going to turn of developers for any reason. You may have a strict criteria for what makes an enjoyable online gaming experience, but not everyone does. And frankly, if Mortal Kombat doesn't have online features for the Wii version (and the Wii version only), and Square-Enix is having problems realizing any of their online visions due to Nintendo's rigid restrictions, I think that's valid cause for worry for the Wii's online offerings, and desire to complain.

You can hate online gaming all you want, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

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As soon as someone can actually prove that Nintendo's online strategy is hurting online gaming (See that key word there: "GAMING". Not "extra crap that I can do just becausing", but gaming.) then you'll actually have a point.

*cough* http://www.joystiq.com/2007/02/01/square-enix-blames-wii-friend-codes-for-lack-of-ffxi/ *cough*

Actually, I read all of it and I only saw whining because you have to use a friend code. That's it. Just because you have to enter a number. That's ALL anyone really came up with to attack Nintendo's online policy.

As for MMOs that is a sticky point. They're not very popular though. FFXI's sales numbers are beyond pitiful. But Nintendo is going to have to find a way around it. I think that's the only genre of online game that the whole friend code system borks. If you want to complain about that then that's your prerogative and I actually completely agree with you.

Funny that it took this long for someone to introduce a REAL problem with Nintendo's online network.

[Smash_Brother]

I think an MMO built custom for the Wii could be pretty incredible, shame it'll likely never happen with the current infrastructure, though.

[Shecky]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I hate to say it, but I'm going to have to agree with Pittboii, it is inexcusable if Nintendo is chasing away would be third parties by having such a lame online system. Nintendo needs to open up and allow companies full access to the online feature and try not to limit it so much with things like friend codes.

Ugh, Posts:0 is right....

You do realize that developers are asking for "Xbox Live" for Nintendo right?  They're complaining that Nintendo is making it difficult for them to tie into the unified community Nintendo's established (have they yet?)  They want to know how to tie in achievements, rankings, ladders, friends....  However Nintendo is not providing them with that info, hence no online for you.

Companies have full access to the libraries necessary to communicate online [Source: Elebits].  "Full access to the online feature" is "Where's our Nintendo Live, and why don't we have the libraries to interface to it?"

If Xbox Live is the Gold Standard and companies will settle for nothing less, then forget online gaming on the Wii.  Nintendo doesn't have the resources in terms of brains and network expertise to pull it off any time soon.  Rather you should be complaining that companies get their act together and maybe work on platform independent hubs, for their own companies or a collaboration of them.  

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: Shecky
If Xbox Live is the Gold Standard and companies will settle for nothing less, then forget online gaming on the Wii.  Nintendo doesn't have the resources in terms of brains and network expertise to pull it off any time soon.  Rather you should be complaining that companies get their act together and maybe work on platform independent hubs, for their own companies or a collaboration of them.

Oh my god...

SOMEONE ACTUALLY GETS IT!

Thank you for existing! Just... thank you!

[Blue Plant]

We'll still need keyboard compatibility for these alleged MMORPGs.  Let's all bitch about that first.  Okay?  Okay?  Okay.

On-screen typing is for dinosaurs.   On-screen pointer typing is for tiny lizards.

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: Blue Plant
We'll still need keyboard compatibility for these alleged MMORPGs.  Let's all bitch about that first.  Okay?  Okay?  Okay.

Three letters: U S B

Or they could make it wireless. It could function on one of the controller frequencies.

They could also make a wireless mic/headset. Isn't Nintendo supposed to be working on something like that for the DS? I don't think it's wireless though but if they really wanted it to be I'm sure they could do it.

Someone came out with a creepy controller/keyboard nightmare like thing for PSO on the GC. I'm sure they could make something just as terrifying for the Wii. Just imagine, a motion sensitive... keyboard?

[Blue Plant]

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Originally posted by: denjet78

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Originally posted by: Blue Plant
We'll still need keyboard compatibility for these alleged MMORPGs.  Let's all bitch about that first.  Okay?  Okay?  Okay.

Three letters: U S B

Yes, I know, but they still need to send us an update for a keyboard to actually be recognized.

I think people should really stop nagging so much about what we're not getting (and not paying for!).  The only thing I'm willing to agree on is they shouldn't hide online details from third parties.  But I damn well know that things are/will be more open than if Yamauchi were still in power.  

Nintendo just needs time to build up an online community.  Microsoft had how many years to get Live up to its current state? (Why does it sound like this argument is made over and over and just falls on deaf ears each time?)

Maybe a nice cash incentive would get Nintendo to hurry it up.  How's $49.99 a year sound?

[Nephilim]

I believe USB keyboard could be done game to game, all the game needs is a driver system, much like ps2 games

[NWR_pap64]

I am too lazy to read what you guys have said, but I said it once and I'll say it again: fans, as well as developers, are expecting too much from Nintendo when it comes to online games.

I agree that XBOX Live set the standards way too high for developers to pursue, so now we get fans that want Nintendo to emulate that when its clear Nintendo has other ideas.

Like I mentioned before, give Nintendo time. The system was JUST released, and the system already uses minor online components, which is more than what the PS2 and XBOX did in their first year.

I agree that they need to find a better friends system, but outside that people are demanding too much. Yes, I want as many online games as possible but I sure will not throw a fit when Nintendo can't fully handle them.

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: Blue Plant

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Originally posted by: denjet78

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Originally posted by: Blue Plant
We'll still need keyboard compatibility for these alleged MMORPGs.  Let's all bitch about that first.  Okay?  Okay?  Okay.

Three letters: U S B

Yes, I know, but they still need to send us an update for a keyboard to actually be recognized.

I think people should really stop nagging so much about what we're not getting (and not paying for!).  The only thing I'm willing to agree on is they shouldn't hide online details from third parties.  But I damn well know that things are/will be more open than if Yamauchi were still in power.  

Nintendo just needs time to build up an online community.  Microsoft had how many years to get Live up to its current state? (Why does it sound like this argument is made over and over and just falls on deaf ears each time?)

Maybe a nice cash incentive would get Nintendo to hurry it up.  How's $49.99 a year sound?

The update could come on a disk or be downloaded when you first boot up a game that uses it. That's not a big issue. Nintendo doesn't even have to have anything to do with it. The developer just needs to know how to be able to access the USB ports. Nintendo may or may not be keeping that information to themselves though. This is the first time the topic has ever come up as far as I'm aware.

Nintendo's online network is free and we all know how notorious they are when it comes to making money. The fact that they're not charging at all means one of two things: They've lost their collective minds or they've figured out a way how to get it to work without having to lose any money in the process. Sony's probably losing a fortune just trying to play catch-up with MS and MS charges for their network. Well if you want to actually play games they do. Nintendo seems to be the only company that's been able to hit the internet sweet spot.

[MarioAllStar]

My ideal Nintendo online system:

Each person has an an account tied to their system. It might be number (like current Wii Numbers) or it might be a user name of their choosing. If I want to play with my friend, I just add him to my friends list. If he wants to do the same he can, but he doesn't have to. Everyone has the option to show their online status to people on their friends list. When I see that a friend is online, I can send a request asking them to play a game. During gameplay, if I find an opponent that I like to play against, I can add him/her to my list to play against later. If a parent is concerned about online play, they can use parental controls to only allow play and/or communication between approved friends.

* * *

After reading that, does anything really sound out of the question? Most of my suggestions deal only with how the friends list is maintained. I think that Nintendo's current network could allow all of the above, but their policy stands in the way.

I am not a hardcore online gamer. I owned an Xbox years ago with an Xbox Live subscription and ended up selling the system. I don't need the insults, elitism, or any of the other crap that comes with Xbox Live. Nintendo can create an online system that is as fun and simple as the Wii itself, they just need to think differently.

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
My ideal Nintendo online system:

Each person has an an account tied to their system. It might be number (like current Wii Numbers) or it might be a user name of their choosing. If I want to play with my friend, I just add him to my friends list. If he wants to do the same he can, but he doesn't have to. Everyone has the option to show their online status to people on their friends list. When I see that a friend is online, I can send a request asking them to play a game. During gameplay, if I find an opponent that I like to play against, I can add him/her to my list to play against later. If a parent is concerned about online play, they can use parental controls to only allow play and/or communication between approved friends.

That sounds a lot like what they did for MP:H. You could add random online players to your rival list and then play against them again later. You just couldn't chat with them or really get into any kind of contact with them outside of the game. I think that would be a good system for Wii, even if they kept the anonymous rival system. I don't see an issue with that at all. The only thing on that list that Nintendo isn't already doing is allowing you to see your friends when they're online and I don't think that would be really hard to fix.

[Blue Plant]

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Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
I am not a hardcore online gamer. I owned an Xbox years ago with an Xbox Live subscription and ended up selling the system. I don't need the insults, elitism, or any of the other crap that comes with Xbox Live.

I see what you mean... (Warning to minors: Very heavy language and typical fool behavior.)

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: denjet78

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Originally posted by: MarioAllStar
My ideal Nintendo online system:

Each person has an an account tied to their system. It might be number (like current Wii Numbers) or it might be a user name of their choosing. If I want to play with my friend, I just add him to my friends list. If he wants to do the same he can, but he doesn't have to. Everyone has the option to show their online status to people on their friends list. When I see that a friend is online, I can send a request asking them to play a game. During gameplay, if I find an opponent that I like to play against, I can add him/her to my list to play against later. If a parent is concerned about online play, they can use parental controls to only allow play and/or communication between approved friends.

That sounds a lot like what they did for MP:H. You could add random online players to your rival list and then play against them again later. You just couldn't chat with them or really get into any kind of contact with them outside of the game. I think that would be a good system for Wii, even if they kept the anonymous rival system. I don't see an issue with that at all. The only thing on that list that Nintendo isn't already doing is allowing you to see your friends when they're online and I don't think that would be really hard to fix.

I agree. I don't see anything wrong with that solution. Nintendo needs to do whatever they need to do to allow for the most versatile system they can within the constraints of friend codes.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Shecky

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I hate to say it, but I'm going to have to agree with Pittboii, it is inexcusable if Nintendo is chasing away would be third parties by having such a lame online system. Nintendo needs to open up and allow companies full access to the online feature and try not to limit it so much with things like friend codes.

Ugh, Posts:0 is right....

You do realize that developers are asking for "Xbox Live" for Nintendo right?  They're complaining that Nintendo is making it difficult for them to tie into the unified community Nintendo's established (have they yet?)  They want to know how to tie in achievements, rankings, ladders, friends....  However Nintendo is not providing them with that info, hence no online for you.

Companies have full access to the libraries necessary to communicate online [Source: Elebits].  "Full access to the online feature" is "Where's our Nintendo Live, and why don't we have the libraries to interface to it?"

If Xbox Live is the Gold Standard and companies will settle for nothing less, then forget online gaming on the Wii.  Nintendo doesn't have the resources in terms of brains and network expertise to pull it off any time soon.  Rather you should be complaining that companies get their act together and maybe work on platform independent hubs, for their own companies or a collaboration of them.

I don't like the friend codes and wish they would be eliminated, but I'm willing to bend a bit, not to the point though of each game having one. My main problem with Nintendo isn't solely because of their online system, but that it seems from this they are trying to hoard all the online information for themselves, that to me is a big problem if it is true. If the publishers are only concerned about the things you mentioned, then I can give Nintendo SOME slack, but if it is more than that, such as not sharing how to get their games online, that is inexcusable.

[IceCold]

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That sounds a lot like what they did for MP:H. You could add random online players to your rival list and then play against them again later. You just couldn't chat with them or really get into any kind of contact with them outside of the game. I think that would be a good system for Wii, even if they kept the anonymous rival system. I don't see an issue with that at all. The only thing on that list that Nintendo isn't already doing is allowing you to see your friends when they're online and I don't think that would be really hard to fix.

I agree. Metroid Hunters online was exactly how it should be; extra stuff like voice chat with people on your friend list, but also the ability to just play anyone randomly, plus the Rivals feature.

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: GoldenPhoenix
I don't like the friend codes and wish they would be eliminated, but I'm willing to bend a bit, not to the point though of each game having one. My main problem with Nintendo isn't solely because of their online system, but that it seems from this they are trying to hoard all the online information for themselves, that to me is a big problem if it is true. If the publishers are only concerned about the things you mentioned, then I can give Nintendo SOME slack, but if it is more than that, such as not sharing how to get their games online, that is inexcusable.

A different code for each game is a bit ridiculous. I can see it happening with Pokemon though simply because it's going to be able to interact with the DS titles. They may simply not be able to interact any other way.

I don't think Nintendo is hording their online information. As has been pointed out, Elebits is online in Japan. I don't know if it is here in the US. I haven't kept very good tabs on it because I don't even have a Wii yet. *sigh* Anyway, Konami has the libraries necessary to get online and they don't have the best relationship with Nintendo as it is. The information is out there. Developers simply aren't using it. The question now is, why aren't they?

It was basically the same situation with the GC. Nintendo made the libraries available but no one used them. Why?

[Pittbboi]

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Like I mentioned before, give Nintendo time. The system was JUST released, and the system already uses minor online components, which is more than what the PS2 and XBOX did in their first year.

I'm sorry, but I can't give Nintendo that slack. If this were last year and they were testing online out with the cube then it would be understandable. But this is new gen, and online isn't new. Nintendo should have learned from the mistakes of others.

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I agree that XBOX Live set the standards way too high for developers to pursue, so now we get fans that want Nintendo to emulate that when its clear Nintendo has other ideas.

What ideas does Nintendo have? Because they're not giving any indication that they have ideas. Just ways of cutting cost.


I'm sorry, but all of you sound like you're coming up with bogus reasons for why Nintendo shouldn't do things, and that makes you inherently wrong. The main beef is with the friend code system, and the only way you guys can justify it is by comparing it to Xbox live. That's not fair at all. Nintendo could provide a much better online system if they just did away with friend codes. They don't have to compete with Xbox Live.

Xbox Live isn't the gold standard. They're just an example of online done right. There are many other ways of doing it without charging.

 

[Kairon]

I don't see why Friend Codes elicit so much hate. If it was game by game, sure, but a single friend code is just a numerical screen name.

The REAL problem with Nintendo's online is not friend codes (assuming the single friendcode per system solution), but the paucity of news suggesting the readiness of the network or third party involvement.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[MarioAllStar]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
I agree. I don't see anything wrong with that solution. Nintendo needs to do whatever they need to do to allow for the most versatile system they can within the constraints of friend codes.

But why does that constraint need to be there? Like I have stated time and time again, Nintendo just needs to make online play part of their parental controls. Parents can restrict the experience for kids (like no in-game communication), and the rest of us can have a better online system. One big barrier is just the fact that both people have to add each other before playing together. Why can't a friend just say, "This is my Wii Number, invite me to a game of Smash Bros. later"? That would make things so much easier.

Oh, I would like to add to my ideal Nintendo online setup by saying people should be able to choose a Wii to associate with their number/name. That is, I should not have to manually set Miis to each person on my friend list--a person should be able to choose their own Mii avatar.

[segagamer12]

I agree pittboi, its not like Nintendo IS new to onlin DS is online and even way back as far as NEs they had some online stuff. no there is no excuse for not having online at launch I agree with that, have complained before also. I dont put much faith in Nintendo online all I care about is that its free and that VC is better than Live Arcade and so far thats all that matters to me. I wish we could play Mario Party online that would be sweet, but it wont likely happen. after seeing the ds attempts at online, not bad but not good either I dont expect Ninty to do a dman thing to pursuade devs to take advantage of it. besides activitions what 3rd parties utilise ds onine anyways?