Topic: Nintendo online argument

[KDR_11k]

Does XBox Live have some sort of child molestation problem that I'm not aware of?

No but there are no games suitable for kids on the whole damn platform.  

[wandering]

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Originally posted by: Maverick
Does XBox Live have some sort of child molestation problem that I'm not aware of?

http://gamepolitics.livejournal.com/171996.html

[Maverick]

I don't think that's true.  Certainly the X-Box demographic is older than a lot of Nintendo's, but I've been playing Viva Pinata for a while now and it was certainly not designed for older gamers.  It's still fun of course, but it maily appeals to kids.  (Also, when I was younger, I certainly just only play "kiddy" games).  I think the main thing should be to focus on having parental controls that would lock out potentially dangerous features for those too young or immature to handle an online environment.

I also think you're underestimating the age of a lot of Nintendo gamers.  It's not like only eight year olds like Pokemon.

Edit:  wandering, I was really unaware that had happened at all.  However I don't think that this one isolated incident suggests there's a fundamental problem with the way online gaming is approached.  People just need to take responsibility for their own actions, and make sure their children know the dangers and are responsible enough to protect them.  I've read someone on here say that "it doesn't matter what parents SHOULD do..." but yes, it does.  It is not Nintendo's responsibility to protect children, it is their parents', and Nintendo should not sacrifice a good product for the sake of "Nannying" people.  If they choose to do that, it is of course their right as a company, but it comes at the price of an improved product and more customers.  

[Smash_Brother]

Hmm, it's crap like that that makes Nintendo look in the right for doing what they do with friend codes.

Still, friend codes aren't a perfect solution, as there are colossal lists of friend code swap threads all over the internet where any pedophile could easily add kids to his list.

[Maverick]

The best solution to child molestation via the internet is to educate children on the dangers of communicating with strangers and preparing them to avoid such dangerous situations.  If a child is not old enough to understand the dangers, then he or she should not be on the internet, period.  This goes for game consoles as well as the WWW.  

Edit:  Changed "only" to "best" as I didn't want to come off as some sort of dogmatic prick.   :-P

[Ceric]

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Does XBox Live have some sort of child molestation problem that I'm not aware of?

No but there are no games suitable for kids on the whole damn platform.

You can see that lately Microsoft has been trying to get some Children oriented games.  Trying to broaden there general appeal.

[ShyGuy]

Maverick, you dogmatic prick!

Responsibility is unavoidable in society. If parents aren't responsibile, then Nintendo will take away control to protect themselves.

[Smash_Brother]

Better to be a dogmatic prick than a pragmatic d*ck.

[Maverick]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Better to be a dogmatic prick than a pragmatic d*ck.

Sig GET!

[Pittbboi]

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GOD. When will this DIE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Can't you all see how much ABUSE will happen within POKEMON MMOS? Can't you see the INNUMERABLE DIFFICULTIES, the INNUMERABLE reasons why this is a BAD idea? AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

You always respond this way, but you never list what those reasons are.

I really don't see how the bad outweighs the good. Pokemon is all about community, collecting, trading,  battling, tournaments, traveling to gyms and collecting badges. Different servers can stand for the different leagues. Seriously, this game makes way too much sense not to happen at some point. Or at least Nintendo should give us a console Pokemon RPG that they take a lot more seriously than Pokemon XD--THAT game is ew. It seems like Nintendo won't make this game because of the minority that may abuse it.  

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Nintendo's online system is going to be simpler than the others, there's no way to get around that. If Nintendo were to try to build a Live type online network it would cost them several times more than it cost MS to build and even maintain. Why? Because MS has internal divisions and corporations that they can tap to build and maintain the system for them. Nintendo simply cannot compete with the same online experience as Sony and MS. They simply couldn't afford it. They shouldn't be forced to loose money just to make you happy. If Sony and MS want to do that, that's their prerogative, but you can't blame Nintendo for not wanting to waste money. They're not a not-for-profit after all.

Wanting Nintendo to do away with friend codes doesn't necessarily mean that we want them to start competing with Xbox Live. Nintendo may not be able to compete with Microsoft's online service, but that should not stop Nintendo from providing the most competent online service that they can. And friend codes are a hindrance, there's just no getting around that. There's also no getting around the fact that developers don't like it. Squeenix doesn't like it and is in talks with Nintendo to come up with ways to bypass it. That tells me that developers who bash it aren't just looking for excuses to not give their Wii games online features; Nintendo's online infrastructure really is hindering their online visions for their own games. I understand that Nintendo wants to protect the naive dummies [children] who make their way onto the internet, but Nintendo's current approach is seriously throwing a wrench into them ever having a successful online infrastructure (something that they could have without competing with Xbox Live).

Nintendo's going to have to learn that if they really want the Wii to be the everyone console they're going to have to open it up to everyone, and not cripple it just because there's a minority out there who may abuse it.  

[KDR_11k]

Nintendo should not sacrifice a good product for the sake of "Nannying" people.

Problem is every time they don't do that people sue them over something. Where do you think that "health warning" at bootup comes from? People sue Nintendo for the most idiotic reasons (I think they even got sued over GTA!). I have no idea why those idiots never sue Sony or MS, perhaps because their brains are too defective to comprehend the idea that Nintendo doesn't make every single videogame out there.

Still, friend codes aren't a perfect solution, as there are colossal lists of friend code swap threads all over the internet where any pedophile could easily add kids to his list.

Yes but there are limits to how much you can prevent user errors. You can be damn sure Nintendo will get sued over it anyway and I wish we still had Yamauchi so a few more of the world's idiots would meet the bumper of a car.

The best solution to child molestation via the internet is to educate children on the dangers of communicating with strangers and preparing them to avoid such dangerous situations. If a child is not old enough to understand the dangers, then he or she should not be on the internet, period. This goes for game consoles as well as the WWW.

Yes but putting responsibility on the user's shoulders has never done well with the press. Unfortunately the parents who are dumb enough to think that keeping a kid away from harm is a substitute for teaching it how to avoid harm are also the parents who are the least likely to notice if their kid gets abused by a paedo.

Whenever someone invents something foolproof the universe invents a better fool.

[Kairon]

I think Nintendo sees Friend Codes as a safety net that non-gamers and parents are more likely to see as a plus than a negative.

It may be a sales decision: Will the average trying-to-be conscientious parent buy their child the XBox 360 after stories of all the immature language on that network that you can't filter out, (12 year old yelling at his mom for chocolate milk overhe4ard through XBL voice chat) or would they buy the Wii, which in addition to a plethora of other features, also provides them a comforting, almost impenetrably safe barrier where the child can only converse or listen to players that they've met in real life?

If that's the case, we may be going about it completely wrong. Hardcore gamers will never be fully satisfied with Nintendo's online because Nintendo's online functionality was SIMPLY not made with them in mind. It's a pure not-compete decision on Nintendo's part, instead gearing their online to a different market and different concerns.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Plugabugz]

If a child demands a games console and then demands online play to go with it the child probably deserves a slap for demanding too much and not paying the bills.

[jasonditz]

I'm not opposed to keeping online centered around circles of friends... I despised the online experience on the DC and even more on the PS2 largely because most people are asses. I just wish they'd let us use usernames instead of hard-to-remember friend codes. They let us link our online shopping account to our Nintendo.com account, why not let us use that for buddy lists as well?

I don't want to go online to play basketball and discover that the guy I'm playing against is using the "spam pause when you're shooting foul shots" exploit.  

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: jasonditz
I'm not opposed to keeping online centered around circles of friends... I despised the online experience on the DC and even more on the PS2 largely because most people are asses. I just wish they'd let us use usernames instead of hard-to-remember friend codes. They let us link our online shopping account to our Nintendo.com account, why not let us use that for buddy lists as well?

I don't want to go online to play basketball and discover that the guy I'm playing against is using the "spam pause when you're shooting foul shots" exploit.

I think in discussions like this we need to distance ourselves from what we "want" to what is best. Having friend codes, and elminating voice chat (or having it be limited) hampers what kinds of online games we can have. Personally if I was to compromise I would be ok with one friend code being linked to your Wii, but having multiple ones for games is flat out ridiculous. Oh well, I hope Nintendo gets over their current trend of limiting the Wii online experience or it could potentially harm them. It is sad to see a system with such revolutionary controls be so limited in the multiplayer experience, there could be some truly unique online games.

[Luigi Dude]

If Nintendo was charging money like Xbox Live then all these complants would be valid, but they're not.  I dont see a reason to complain this much when we're getting online for FREE.  When somethings free, people can't really complain about the quality since it's not costing anyone a thing.

Even though I dont like the idea of friend codes either, if that's what it takes to get free online, then so be it.

[MarioAllStar]

Friend codes are not a requirement of a free service, they are a safeguard put into place by Nintendo. The only money it might save them is in the form of avoided lawsuits, but they could just use parental controls to avoid that problem.

I could excuse a small (very minimal) amount of advertising with Nintendo's online service in order to pay for it, but friend codes are just unnecessary road blocks. I don't need voice/video chat or anything like that, but I would really like it if Nintendo put a little more effort into their online plan. Since the service is free, I do appreciate any effort they make, but the current setup is probably hurting them in the eyes of Xbox/PlayStation owners. Not their target audience, I know, but a sale is a sale.

[Pittbboi]

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It may be a sales decision: Will the average trying-to-be conscientious parent buy their child the XBox 360 after stories of all the immature language on that network that you can't filter out, (12 year old yelling at his mom for chocolate milk overhe4ard through XBL voice chat) or would they buy the Wii, which in addition to a plethora of other features, also provides them a comforting, almost impenetrably safe barrier where the child can only converse or listen to players that they've met in real life?

But on the flip side, if it's true that Nintendo's online infrastructure is turning off developers (which seems to be the case), and that mentality spreads, then it really won't matter how safe friend codes make Nintendo's online. Responsible parents care about the safety of their children, yes, but they also care about value. Xbox Live, while not taking extreme safety measures, may be considered the more valuable service when Nintendo's online service is safe, but has nothing of real worth to play on it as a result.

And besides, what's to stop people they "know" from using inappropriate language online?

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Hardcore gamers will never be fully satisfied with Nintendo's online because Nintendo's online functionality was SIMPLY not made with them in mind.

And this is a perfect example of what "hardcore" gamers feared despite people telling them to shut up and stop being so pessimistic. If this is true then it completely contradicts Nintendo's claims of the Wii being the everyone console. They don't have to make Xbox Live, but making their online service so rigid and focused on the non-gamer, kid safe crowd (who aren't really interested in online anyway. Online is still mostly "gamer" territory) is keeping them from providing even a basic, but competent service.  

[Luigi Dude]

The thing is, the amount of people that go online though is really only a very small percent.  The Xbox which was the system build to be all about online gaming, had only a few million people actually use it out of a userbase of around 24 million.  The PS2 did even worse with having sold over 100 million units, yet only a few million people using it's online as well.  That means only around 2-5% of the entire gaming public even cares about online.

More people went online with Nintendo's Wifi for the DS in it's first year, then went online with Xbox Live for the Xbox in it's first year.  The reason is simple, people dont want to have to pay for online gaming.

As long as it's free, that's all people are going to care about.  So if friend codes are going to only anger the 5% of the videogame public that actually cares about playing games online, then I dont see Nintendo changing there plans anytime soon.  And with most people not caring about online anyway, Nintendo doesn't really have a reason to change right now either.

[Crimm]

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Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
If Nintendo was charging money like Xbox Live then all these complants would be valid, but they're not.  I dont see a reason to complain this much when we're getting online for FREE.  When somethings free, people can't really complain about the quality since it's not costing anyone a thing.

Even though I dont like the idea of friend codes either, if that's what it takes to get free online, then so be it.

That's bull crap.  They are charging, it's part of that $49.99 you play for your games.  They aren't giving us online as a gift, they're doing it as a feature of the game.  They're doing it to increase the relative value of the title, and making us more willing to play for it.  Ergo, we are paying for online, just not for a subscription.

[GoldenPhoenix]

I hate to say it, but I'm going to have to agree with Pittboii, it is inexcusable if Nintendo is chasing away would be third parties by having such a lame online system. Nintendo needs to open up and allow companies full access to the online feature and try not to limit it so much with things like friend codes.

[segagamer12]

I agree that the one friend code per wii was the ideal solution, not 1 per game that will suck. I think we should all just send emails, consistantly, to nintendo telling them this, seriously as fans and supporters if our voices arent heard we are going to be ignored.  

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: Pittbboi

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Hardcore gamers will never be fully satisfied with Nintendo's online because Nintendo's online functionality was SIMPLY not made with them in mind.

And this is a perfect example of what "hardcore" gamers feared despite people telling them to shut up and stop being so pessimistic. If this is true then it completely contradicts Nintendo's claims of the Wii being the everyone console. They don't have to make Xbox Live, but making their online service so rigid and focused on the non-gamer, kid safe crowd (who aren't really interested in online anyway. Online is still mostly "gamer" territory) is keeping them from providing even a basic, but competent service.

I don't recall that at all. Hardcore gamers worried about epic games, not epic online. There was NEVER a glimmer of hope to me that Nintendo would EVER offer a hardcore online service on the level of even PSN.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Maverick]

If they must keep the friend code system, the best solution would be to use one friend code per Wii (the system as a whole) and attach it and online functionality to the address book.  That way we don't have to enter the code over and over again and can just select "Bob" to join our game.

[Pittbboi]

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I don't recall that at all. Hardcore gamers worried about epic games, not epic online. There was NEVER a glimmer of hope to me that Nintendo would EVER offer a hardcore online service on the level of even PSN.

Oh, I wasn't just talking about online with this. The general fear the "hardcore gamer" (ick, I hate this label. I'm not a hardcore gamer at all and I still had this fear because I'm definitely not a non-gamer) had was that in their earnestness to appeal to the non-gamer in general, Nintendo was going to slowly but surely neglect the gamer crowd. Nintendo shucking the gamer with their online system is but one facet of this. Last gen was the time for testing online gaming. But this gen online gaming in all of its forms is becoming more and more popular. Gamers want it. Nintendo gamers want it.  Nintendo neglecting the growing popularity of, and demand for, quality online gaming just to protect the dumb little kiddies (who aren't really into online at this point, anyway) and their fragile little minds is an example of part of that fear being realized.