Author Topic: Nintendo online argument (Read 38615 times)

nitsu niflheim · « **Reply #25 on:** February 02, 2007, 02:08:47 AM »

do you think it would be difficult for a developer to bypass Nintendo's online friend code system. In theory I suspect that it could be rather easy, I mean the internet channel doesn't seem to use the friend code to browse the internet, so why doesn't a developer just bypass the codes and connect directly to their own servers and all that jazz. would make most online games more user friendly.

Adrock · « **Reply #26 on:** February 02, 2007, 02:31:39 AM »

The Internet Channel was also made by Opera under Nintendo's own specifications. Also, it's not connecting to another Wii. And I'm assuming if developers could get around it they would. Don't 3rd party DS games still rely on friend codes?

I just don't see how Nintendo can be so strict with the games yet provide the trial version of Opera for free. Isn't that just as dangerous? I've been told that you can access myspace and porn. I'm too lazy to test it out myself because typing "boobs" on google is too much of a hassle for me using the Wii remote and if I really wanted, I have a computer right here anyway. I just don't know what the friend codes do anything except hassle everyone.

JonLeung · « **Reply #27 on:** February 02, 2007, 02:43:37 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: nitsu niflheim
do you think it would be difficult for a developer to bypass Nintendo's online friend code system. In theory I suspect that it could be rather easy, I mean the internet channel doesn't seem to use the friend code to browse the internet, so why doesn't a developer just bypass the codes and connect directly to their own servers and all that jazz. would make most online games more user friendly.

They technically can, but seeing as how every game "licensed by Nintendo" for play on a Nintendo system probably goes through a screening process, maybe not so much in content these days, but modes like online they will likely do look at, so they wouldn't be able to get that by them.

I was surprised when I saw that CastleVania: Portrait Of Ruin (DS) allowed you to visit random people's shops without needing their Friend Codes. I only went online with Mario Kart DS for one day long before so I had forgotten that there was a mode in that too where could race people of a similar skill level that you might not personally know. (I haven't gone online with Metroid Prime: Hunters.) If there was voice chat or a way to communicate with people that you find and play against randomly, they could give you their friend code, so it's not really that different other than the slight inconvenience to the players, isn't it?

Remember the commercial for the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection with the ninjas? You can go against random people and similarly skilled people and they even advertised this.

I suppose the issue is that we'd want the convenience of just leaving our online code/gamertag/username on a forum and be challenged by or play with anybody from that forum instead of registering all of them individually. But if you're old enough to be on an Internet forum you're old enough to know not to give personal information to people you meet online that you don't know and shouldn't trust.

On that note about the Opera browser/Internet Channel, I'm surprised that there's no disclaimer about the uses of it. Maybe the final version will have such a warning screen, not that we would want it.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #28 on:** February 02, 2007, 03:16:23 AM »

Nintendo's online is not going to be as good as Microsoft's, or probably even Sony's. It sucks, but I don't care that much myself. I have a PC for online games, should I want to play them that badly.

Edfishy · « **Reply #29 on:** February 02, 2007, 04:33:20 AM »

Hm... I thought I recall Nintendo's research showing that most casual gamers and newcomers alike are often intimidated by playing an on-line game thanks to rude and unsportmanship-like messages from their opponents. On the other hand, casual gamers have no problem being told how bad they suck by their own friends, hence the friend codes. I must have missed the part where they were speaking specifically about protecting children, which seems to be the most common argument against Nintendo's friend-code system.

Something that may be an interesting fix for the casual gamers is to force a player to go through a "Party Mode" when playing on-line against unknown players. The Party Mode would require a player to bring a few friends with him into the on-line game during his first X.xx hours, thereby boosting the confidence of the casual gamer through strength in numbers. After a few sessions, the casual player should no longer be considered a "newbie" and will be free to play alone, if he desires. Alternatively, if the player chooses to bypass the "Party Mode" and simply "Go it Alone"(A hardcore gamer's choice), he'll be given a brief warning about the potential courtesy of other players and a suggestion to "bring some backup".

Pittbboi · « **Reply #30 on:** February 02, 2007, 04:51:46 AM »

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What Nintendo does is provides developers with a service, if they want to use they can. But that doesn't stop them from using their own networks. Unlike Live, Nintendo's service is "open" meaning if they have the stucture they can use their own service instead of Nintendo's.

I don't know. If it were really so easy for developers to bypass Nintendo's crappy friend code system, I don't think developers would be complaining about it. They'd just be making the online games they wanted. But so many developers have said the reason why their Wii games aren't online is because of the Wii's shoddy online structure, and now developers are outright lambasting it. That's bad. This isn't like Nintendo's lack of graphical/HD capabilities in comparison to the competition: Their online structure is something that they can and SHOULD change. Even if these are games that you personally don't care about, the fact that the Wii is missing out on any games and/or features, or frustrating developers needlessly with an online system that they can change (and almost their entire fanbase and developer network WANTS them to change) is BAD. Especially now that the Wii is supposed to be the console for everyone.

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Though there are a few games I like online because it just makes to much sense. (Pokemon MMORPG I'm looking at you.)

yes, Yes, YES. I have not played a Pokemon game since Yellow was released, and this is STILL the game that would make me cream my pants.

Nephilim · « **Reply #31 on:** February 02, 2007, 05:20:11 AM »

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Online isn't necessary, but if done right, it can only make a game better.

whats that got to do with nintendo kids saying "online gaimg sucks, i demand nintendo dont do it" attitude?

companys are making 100s of millions of dollars of online
GAW 360 was mainly hyped because of its online coop, halo1&2 for online play, heck im sure if red steel had online (even its its broken state) everyone would of bought it just for a online wii game

Ian Sane · « **Reply #32 on:** February 02, 2007, 05:29:10 AM »

Nintendo seems to always do things differently than everyone else. Now in some cases this is excellent. They seem to be able to do things that no one else can. For example every franchise they've transfered from 2D to 3D has turned out great. Nintendo is fantastic at finding solutions.

But it seems that if other companies have found an ideal solution Nintendo's own take always f*cks things up somehow. They seem focused on doing things different but their focus should be doing things BEST. That means doing something different when there are problems involved in existing ideas but also implementing good ideas other companies come up with. If someone else had found the perfect solution Nintendo somehow finds a way to screw it up.

Online gaming is not that new of concept. Other consoles have done it and it's been done on PCs for years. Nintendo is behind. They should be using the experience of other companies to their advantage. But instead they're doing it their way even though it isn't needed. They're doing something weird for no reason. I just wish that in situations where Nintendo was the follower they just did things as people expect instead of always being different.

We don't want to use friend codes. Somehow online gaming in it's numerous forms has not required this so quit making everything screwy.

Plus in this case I see the potential for "Nintendo's wacky solution to a problem that didn't exist or was already solved" to turn away third parties. Not like cartridges did but still. After ten years of sh!tty third party support (and shrinking market share to go with it) Nintendo shouldn't be giving third parties excuses to not support them, particularly when it is because of a policy Nintendo is in complete control of.

And if Nintendo isn't providing third parties with the proper tools to go online then that's completely unacceptable regardless of what online solution they use. That's like not supplying dev kits.

Kairon · « **Reply #33 on:** February 02, 2007, 07:26:50 AM »

I'll have to say, although I have NO ISSUES whatsoever with Nintendo's online plan (it can't and shouldn't try hard to compete toe-to-toe with the PS3 and X360 in this regard), if it's true that many third parties are shut out of the development process (despite Konami's access to it for a near-launch game) that IS unacceptable.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #34 on:** February 02, 2007, 07:53:32 AM »

Give me co-op BWii NOW

YOU WILL SAY WOW

Shecky · « **Reply #35 on:** February 02, 2007, 12:50:36 PM »

1) There is no requirement for friend code use even in Nintendo 1st party games. You can play online without ever having to mess with them... ever.

2) I'm sure the *final* dev kits have access to the wireless nic; however, Nintendo may be slow to provide the hooks into it's own integrated "Nintendo Wi-Fi" architecture. That doesn't prevent you from making online games, it just give the developers an easy out to say that they didn't bother b/c it wouldn't be like other online offerings.

Ceric · « **Reply #36 on:** February 02, 2007, 01:46:12 PM »

Frankly I have no want or need to talk with people I don't know on a game. Unless thats part of the game. Thats my favorite part of the DS online. I can get in to a game and people will actually play instead of talking. If you want to talk thats what Forums and Chat rooms are for and I encourage you to use them.

When I go online to play a game I want to play a game. I use to be big into Counter Strike back in the day. I enjoy the game and how the teams work. Why I got out? I got tired of everyone claiming everyone else was cheating and then all the talk became terrible. Then voice chat came and it got worse.

Then in PSO all I wanted was to get a group and kill things with the group. Sometime it worked out but sometime people just sat there and talk. Which was annoying and sort of hard with the GCN controller.

Now with my friends sure, I love to exchange strategy while playing. Other people its way to much a crab shoot going more and more to the bad side.

Though I would like to be able to invite people after a game to talk but I could live without that.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #37 on:** February 02, 2007, 02:21:27 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Ceric
Frankly I have no want or need to talk with people I don't know on a game. Unless thats part of the game. Thats my favorite part of the DS online. I can get in to a game and people will actually play instead of talking. If you want to talk thats what Forums and Chat rooms are for and I encourage you to use them.

When I go online to play a game I want to play a game. I use to be big into Counter Strike back in the day. I enjoy the game and how the teams work. Why I got out? I got tired of everyone claiming everyone else was cheating and then all the talk became terrible. Then voice chat came and it got worse.

Then in PSO all I wanted was to get a group and kill things with the group. Sometime it worked out but sometime people just sat there and talk. Which was annoying and sort of hard with the GCN controller.

Now with my friends sure, I love to exchange strategy while playing. Other people its way to much a crab shoot going more and more to the bad side.

Though I would like to be able to invite people after a game to talk but I could live without that.

See that is why voice is important, if a company ever wants to release a game with alot of strategy for Wii, then you would require voice to communicate. I personally think voice communication should be optional.

Adrock · « **Reply #38 on:** February 02, 2007, 03:07:42 PM »

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DeadlyD wrote:
whats that got to do with nintendo kids saying "online gaimg sucks, i demand nintendo dont do it" attitude?

It doesn't. That's just my opinion on online games... unrelated to the line I quoted from you hence why it's in its own separate line... Jeez, chill...

Quote
Ian Sane wrote:
Online gaming is not that new of concept. Other consoles have done it and it's been done on PCs for years. Nintendo is behind. They should be using the experience of other companies to their advantage. But instead they're doing it their way even though it isn't needed. They're doing something weird for no reason. I just wish that in situations where Nintendo was the follower they just did things as people expect instead of always being different.

We don't want to use friend codes. Somehow online gaming in it's numerous forms has not required this so quit making everything screwy.

I agree with that completely. I'm sure there are ways to improve upon what the competition (namely MS) has done with online gaming, but Nintendo sure as hell hasn't improved a thing with their friend code system. With Nintendo parading their philiosophy of simpler games and ease of use, I wonder why they'd settle for such an asinine online structure.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #39 on:** February 02, 2007, 03:14:06 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
Give me co-op BWii NOW

Hell yes.

I'd buy it.

Kairon · « **Reply #40 on:** February 02, 2007, 04:36:41 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Pittbboi
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Though there are a few games I like online because it just makes to much sense. (Pokemon MMORPG I'm looking at you.)

yes, Yes, YES. I have not played a Pokemon game since Yellow was released, and this is STILL the game that would make me cream my pants.

GOD. When will this DIE?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! Can't you all see how much ABUSE will happen within POKEMON MMOS? Can't you see the INNUMERABLE DIFFICULTIES, the INNUMERABLE reasons why this is a BAD idea? AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Oh, btw, about 1.4 million Wiis have gone online out of 3+ million sold. That's a lot, so there's no question that SOME online functionality is in demand. However, not even all those may be able to connect consistently. Heck, I haven't been able to connect consistently at all... only whenever I go home from the dorms, too many ports blocked.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Hocotate · « **Reply #41 on:** February 02, 2007, 05:26:52 PM »

Pokemon MMO? eeeeewwwwwwwwwww.

denjet78 · « **Reply #42 on:** February 02, 2007, 05:29:09 PM »

Nintendo's online system is going to be simpler than the others, there's no way to get around that. If Nintendo were to try to build a Live type online network it would cost them several times more than it cost MS to build and even maintain. Why? Because MS has internal divisions and corporations that they can tap to build and maintain the system for them. Nintendo simply cannot compete with the same online experience as Sony and MS. They simply couldn't afford it. They shouldn't be forced to loose money just to make you happy. If Sony and MS want to do that, that's their prerogative, but you can't blame Nintendo for not wanting to waste money. They're not a not-for-profit after all.

But I do understand Nintendo's online structure. They're trying to make it as safe and streamlined as possible for the user. A lot of people here seem to think it's overly complicated but really, it's anything but. You're not having to waste time trying to figure out how to get the network to work. You just exchange friend codes and enter them into your game and you can play together. There's no hunting and searching. Waisting time on all the fluff like creating a profile or having to put up with people chatting online endlessly when all you want to do is play. It's stripping all the excess off and leaving just the pure "online" gaming experience.

Online gaming isn't about bragging to everyone about how many times you killed that "noob" or listening to 12 year olds swear over voice chat just because they can. It's about playing the games, or else it should be.

KDR_11k · « **Reply #43 on:** February 02, 2007, 06:51:14 PM »

Disney has an MMO, Nintendo could look at that to see how to safely implement a Pokemon MMO (you can only piece together predefined phrases).

Kairon · « **Reply #44 on:** February 02, 2007, 08:04:43 PM »

There's also no PvP in toontown, a BIG PART of what's expected for Pokemon.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

KDR_11k · « **Reply #45 on:** February 02, 2007, 08:38:12 PM »

Yes but with predefined phrases they don't have to worry about molesters so they can make it a full MMO.

denjet78 · « **Reply #46 on:** February 02, 2007, 10:05:50 PM »

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Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Yes but with predefined phrases they don't have to worry about molesters so they can make it a full MMO.

People will still find a way.

I have... a... Peter. Would you... like to play... with... it...?

It's so hilarious making the speech synthesizer software in Windows swear. :p

KDR_11k · « **Reply #47 on:** February 02, 2007, 11:37:30 PM »

They can make implied sexual remarks but that's not the issue, the issue is paedos using these games to lure children in. Predefined phrases would prevent them from e.g. pretending to be a kid, get close to another kid and arrange a meeting to "let me show you my Pokemans!"

Maverick · « **Reply #48 on:** February 03, 2007, 05:37:14 AM »

Does XBox Live have some sort of child molestation problem that I'm not aware of?

segagamer12 · « **Reply #49 on:** February 03, 2007, 05:45:50 AM »

I wont get into this one. All I will say is dont base your likeing of online play on DS online, Ds online SUCKS BALLZ compared to Live and therfore should not be used as the basis of Online being good or bad.

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Author Topic: Nintendo online argument (Read 38615 times)