Author Topic: Super Smash Bros. Brawl  (Read 466575 times)

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Offline Luigi Dude

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #850 on: July 27, 2006, 01:31:36 PM »
Megaman is also Capcom's most popular charactor and best known.  They've made more Megaman games then any other franchise they've had and used him for cameo's in alot of games as well.

Because of this I'm sure Nintendo would also want Megaman since he would fit the best because of his popularity and history.  Snake and Sonic both fit that status and Megaman is the only other charactor that has appeared on a Nintendo system with this type of status, so from him not to appear would just be mind boggling.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #851 on: July 27, 2006, 09:57:24 PM »
Yes, if Capcom is in and Inafune doesn't go psycho again we'll get Megaman. But I wouldn't take it for granted that Capcom contributes. And of course Inafune seems to be a PSP fanboy lately.

Offline Mario

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #852 on: July 28, 2006, 07:42:52 AM »
I think it's time Tingle graduated to being a playable SSB character. His cameo in SSBM was just a taste! Now that he has his own game there's a huge chance of him being in this!

Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #853 on: July 28, 2006, 08:02:02 AM »
I think he'll probably replace Mr. Game & Watch as the most hilariously useless character available.

Offline Mario

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #854 on: July 28, 2006, 08:04:37 AM »
Oh yeah, the character everyone spends hundreds of hours doing tasks trying to find out who that last empty space is, only to say "what the hell?".

Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #855 on: July 28, 2006, 08:36:30 AM »
Actually, Mr. Tingle would be a great character...just like Mr. Game and Watch.  Basically, G&M is a great insult character to use to beat your opponent with...much in the same vain as Jigglypuff.

If Mr. Tingle was an unlockable with some interesting and useful moves it would a great addition.  

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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #856 on: July 28, 2006, 11:46:43 AM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang "Don't worry I will handicapped myself...I will play as Mr. Tingle."


I became a great Bowser player using that excuse.
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Offline Luigi Dude

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #857 on: July 28, 2006, 01:01:30 PM »
I'd like Tingle to be in the game just to see Matts reaction at IGN.
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Offline KDR_11k

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #858 on: July 28, 2006, 08:29:25 PM »
Basically, G&M is a great insult character to use to beat your opponent with...much in the same vain as Jigglypuff.

Hey, no dissin' the 'puff!

Offline IceCold

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #859 on: July 31, 2006, 09:22:00 PM »
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Offline Spak-Spang

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #860 on: August 01, 2006, 09:18:31 AM »
KDR:  Oh I am not dissing the Puff.  She can be a great character, but it takes GREAT skill to be able to use her effectively.  

Basically, I am saying it is good useable character, that is embarrassing to be beat by, because who the character is.


Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #861 on: August 08, 2006, 12:27:26 PM »
Taken from an argument in another thread...

Quote

The Marios themselves are top tier too, so it's a poor example


The current agreed SSBM tier list is as follows:

Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo


This was updated based on recent tournament winnings from just last month by SBR who keeps track of these things based on nation wide tournaments.

Quote

The same is true for Melee, but you will never admit to it.


No, I'm pretty sure that players who have naturally superior reflexes will have no trouble overwhelming and chain comboing their opponents into submission because the game moves that much more quickly, giving people who aren't typically gamers less time to react than SSB did.

Like I said, I think 75-85% of SSBM's current speed would be perfect for Brawl.  
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Offline Strell

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #862 on: August 08, 2006, 12:38:01 PM »
God, stfu already.

Some of us don't go to tournaments.

Like 99.9% of us.

So we don't f*cking care.

Take your personal agenda bullsh*t elsewhere.
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Offline Ceric

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #863 on: August 08, 2006, 12:42:24 PM »
I think it lose some of its charm slower.  Also I'm going to say this now and you can get offended if you want but if you only play final destination then I consider you a loser.  If they wanted flat levels they all be flat.  I'm sure it's a tournament thing but it makes this whole thing feel artificial.  Though mark my words when brawl comes out if most of the levels are flat like that I'm going to have a rant so long and incoherent it won't be funny. <rest left out for not wanting to be banned or morale decapitating the developement before they release the game and give me a reason for them to deserve it>
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Offline Stimutacs Addict

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #864 on: August 08, 2006, 12:45:46 PM »
a little harsh, and a tad to blunt.

I don't go to tournaments either, but the unbalance I see in the game is annoying. You have to work really, really hard to beat sheik with link... but that makes it just so much more rewarding.

There will always be tiers; the current game is still my all-time fav. fighter (better than WCW/NWO Revenge); WiiConnect24 will correct any problems with the next game.

finally, my reflexes aren't godly but I've gotten used to melee's speed... anything slower will just seem... well.. too slow. I might like to try it out to see how quick I can be, but ultimately I love the game the way it is.
I'll shut up now...

Offline vudu

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #865 on: August 08, 2006, 12:48:53 PM »
I have to agree with the majority here.  We're not trying to pick on you, but what you're looking for won't necessarily make the game more fun.  (That's what counts; fun.)Most of us don't really like fighting games.  That's why we like Super Smash Bros so much.

I watched the Ness vs Ness fight (you can see it here) and it was the most boring thing I've ever watched in my life.  If I had been in that fight you can bet your ass I would have been shooting myself all around the level with my electricity ball and I would break out the bat like it was nobody's business.

Most of us just want a fun game--give us crazy (and nostalgic) levels, cool weapons, some new fighters, maybe a couple extra single player modes and we'll be happy.
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Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #866 on: August 08, 2006, 12:56:43 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric I think it lose some of its charm slower.  Also I'm going to say this now and you can get offended if you want but if you only play final destination then I consider you a loser.  If they wanted flat levels they all be flat.  I'm sure it's a tournament thing but it makes this whole thing feel artificial.  Though mark my words when brawl comes out if most of the levels are flat like that I'm going to have a rant so long and incoherent it won't be funny. <rest left out for not wanting to be banned or morale decapitating the developement before they release the game and give me a reason for them to deserve it>


I don't just play final D, and the level variety is one of the aspects which makes any SSB worth playing. I was immensely pleased with the sheer number of levels in Melee except for a few cases of the "flat stage + 3 platforms" layout being used a bit too often.

I just don't think the emphasis should be on reflex over strategy and timing. The original SSB favors players who know how to watch their opponents to see when they expose their weak points (like after finishing an up+b, for example). The strategy comes from trying to force your opponent into that situation and, IMHO, made SSB what it was.

Melee obviously favors the same, but the timing windows are drastically smaller because the game moves drastically faster. Likewise, properly defending yourself is more difficult because everything happens much faster than it did in the original.

From the sounds of it, this was not Sakurai's intention, and the fact that he went so far as to mention that the game speed will be adjusted is further indication of this.

Ideally, however, the game should have a "speed adjustment" setting which changes the game speed to your desired setting. That way players who want to play the game on ultra-turbo mode can do so but those who would like something which feels more like the original SSB could have that too.

They already did this in Hyper/SloMo and practice modes in Melee. There's no reason why a speed selector couldn't be part of the main game as well.

Quote

finally, my reflexes aren't godly but I've gotten used to melee's speed... anything slower will just seem... well.. too slow. I might like to try it out to see how quick I can be, but ultimately I love the game the way it is.


This is one more reason I'm glad they're slowing it down a bit: I'm 25 now and I'm not getting any younger. My reflexes can only get worse from here on in and I'd like to be able to enjoy Brawl for as long as possible.

Quote

I have to agree with the majority here. We're not trying to pick on you, but what you're looking for won't necessarily make the game more fun. (That's what counts; fun.)Most of us don't really like fighting games. That's why we like Super Smash Bros so much.


That's fair. I only suggest balance and adjustment of the game speed because I DO feel it will make the game more enjoyable. A lot of the regular SSB players I know were turned off by Melee due to its focus on speed over strategy.

To be honest, one of the reasons I loved the original so much was due to the fact that, unlike "Street Fighter SuperMegaTurboAlphaIII", SSB's combat was paced and as such put more strategy into the game.

Quote

Most of us just want a fun game--give us crazy (and nostalgic) levels, cool weapons, some new fighters, maybe a couple extra single player modes and we'll be happy.


Ironically, that's all I wanted from the SSB sequel: more stuff, same EXACT engine.

I have reasonable hopes for Brawl simply because Sakurai has expressed interest in bringing the game back to its roots a bit. I not hoping for SSB 2.0, but some minor tweaks and balancing of existing characters and Brawl could replace SSB as my favorite.
"OK, first we need someone to complain about something trivial. Golden or S_B should do. Then we get someone to defend the game, like Bill or Mashiro. Finally add some Unclebob or Pro666 randomness and the thread should go to hell right away." -Pap64

Offline Arbok

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #867 on: August 08, 2006, 01:04:25 PM »
I'm just throwing in the towel at this stage, as the discussion seems to be moving further and further away from the original debate about the tiers ruining the game.

Also, I'm well aware of the Smashboards tier list, but never agreed with the fact that Marth is outside of the top when those players are so common in the Japanese tournaments, among other things. The fact that it's constantly updating makes it seem less like these tiers are so set in stone that it hampers the game much either, and, again, it makes no consideration for other styles of play, like the diverse stages and free-for-alls.
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Offline Luigi Dude

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #868 on: August 08, 2006, 01:18:07 PM »
I have to disagree with that.  Out of my group of friends I have the worst reflexes of all of them but I'm one of the top Melee players.  I'm a Luigi player while the rest play as Marth, Fox, Shiek, Donkey Kong, Roy, and Samus.

Plus I never put faith in Tier list.  
I like how Fox is top Tier yet, I beat the Fox player of the group most of the time I play him.  He's a really good player too, but I'm just better as Luigi.  The two that match my level are the Marth and Samus player and we're about even in wins against each other.

Plus the Samus player played a tournament while at college last year and came in second place.  The winner was a Jigglypuff player.
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #869 on: August 08, 2006, 01:20:59 PM »
It's funny.  Looking at that tier breakdown, I realized that the characters I most enjoy using tend toward the bottom of the list, and the characters my best friend prefers tend toward the top.  Even so, I win most of the time we play.  Of course, we always pick random stages, almost always play with a couple of high-ish level cpu players in the fray, and play timed matches.  That's no doubt very different from tournament play.  With the exception of sudden death, I find one on one matches in Melee incredibly boring.  In the original, I liked stock matches, but once it was down to two people in Melee the fighting got too predictable.  Anyway, I'd say our reflexes are close to even, though I have better timing in general, but I tend to think ahead more.  I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but he has told me that it sometimes feels like I'm playing Super Smash Chess.  So I'd say reflexes aren't quite as important to good playing as being able to think on your feet.  Also, I'd say timing instead of reflexes, which is related, but not quite the same.

Offline Smash_Brother

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #870 on: August 08, 2006, 01:22:20 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok I'm just throwing in the towel at this stage, as the discussion seems to be moving further and further away from the original debate about the tiers ruining the game.


I never said they RUINED the game, but that I didn't like having to factor them in when considering tests of skill.

If they RUNIED the game, I wouldn't play it, which is CERTAINLY not the case.

Quote

Also, I'm well aware of the Smashboards tier list, but never agreed with the fact that Marth is outside of the top when those players are so common in the Japanese tournaments, among other things. The fact that it's constantly updating makes it seem less like these tiers are so set in stone that it hampers the game much either, and, again, it makes no consideration for other styles of play, like the diverse stages and free-for-alls.


The top and high tiers seem to be trading back and forth on occasion, but the same bunch seems to stay up there.

But look at the link I posted from the SSB forums: the debate we're having is the one which is still had to this very DAY across SSB boards everywhere, and most seem to be split 50/50 between those who feel the tiers matter and those who don't think they matter at all.

I just happen to be from the former camp, but if this discussion hasn't been resolved across SSB messageboards yet, then I can't fathom how we'd resolve it here.
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Offline Ceric

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RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #871 on: August 08, 2006, 01:24:22 PM »
I wouldn't mind a speed slider that wouldn't take away. (DDR has it.  My freinds swears that every song is easier and better at 1.5)
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Offline Arbok

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #872 on: August 08, 2006, 01:49:57 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
I have to disagree with that.  Out of my group of friends I have the worst reflexes of all of them but I'm one of the top Melee players.  I'm a Luigi player while the rest play as Marth, Fox, Shiek, Donkey Kong, Roy, and Samus.


I love Luigi players. He's harder to control then most, and I never was able to get the character to his true potentional, but in the right hands he is truly scary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDVtQ-q15nA

Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
I wouldn't mind a speed slider that wouldn't take away. (DDR has it.  My freinds swears that every song is easier and better at 1.5)


Same. The speed in both Melee and the N64 version were fine for me, and a way to alter this beyond the "Slow, Normal, Hyper" would probably be best with something 5 or 6 degrees of speed to play with.
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Offline UltimatePartyBear

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #873 on: August 08, 2006, 02:11:12 PM »
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
I love Luigi players. He's harder to control then most, and I never was able to get the character to his true potentional, but in the right hands he is truly scary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDVtQ-q15nA

So scary that CF player fled off the stage from him twice.

Offline Spak-Spang

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RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
« Reply #874 on: August 08, 2006, 02:14:52 PM »
I have stated this before...but since this thread likes to restate things.

I personally found the speed and pacing of the original to be alittle easier to get into and more fun in 3-4 player games.

I just found that the original was much easier to keep track of players, and plan attacks.  My group never really played with Fox and Falcon so I never knew if they were balanced or not.  But I do know my group never tried to break the system and develop cheap manuevers.  

When Melee came out, the graphics, added moves, and overall depth of the game was music to all my friends ears...but soon I was the only person that played the game.

The level design was either too big, making it hard to engage in battle and keep track of everything on screen, or too small for the additional speed increase in the game.

Now, a moment on that Speed.  Ever since Shaq Fu, I think people believed that Speed made a fighting game.  But although Shaq Fu advertised being the fastest fighting game...it wasn't fun or engaging.  The speed sometimes hindered the game.  

In Melee, I think the new added Speed hurt the game.  All the added depth to the game became harder to pull off with the new speed, and sometimes pointless to pull off.  Why catch an object thrown at you, when while you are spending that time catching the object your opponent is on the  other side of you planning a new attack?  Yes, I know there could be reasons for it...but it felt less important or cool.

Melee is still a brilliant and truly special game, but it can be tweaked and improved upon.  Just like Melee improved upon the original in scope.  

However, slowing Melee down and somewhat simplifying the game will be an overall plus to the series.  

1)The varying shield strengths thing needs to go.  complicated and pointless.
2)Speed needs to be slowed down.  Somewhere inbetween Melee and the original will be perfect.
3)Damage and Smash abilities for all characters need to be tweaked much better.
4)Weight classes need more benefits and consequences to balance eachother out more.  

Do these much needed improvements from Melee's design mean that Melee is bad.  Hell No.  It just means that fighting games are hard to develop and achieve perfect, and this game could use more tweaks to the overall system.

Remember, this may be the last Smash Brothers game we get.  Lets hope that it is as perfect of a game as we can get.

Can lets hope they add:

Mega Man
and
Bomber Man.

(yea...I am a broken record, Sue me.)