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Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: jasonditz on May 10, 2006, 02:03:28 PM

Title: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: jasonditz on May 10, 2006, 02:03:28 PM
Both Kotaku and IGN confirm a secret unveiling of the SSB Wii title.

Oh... and both of them say Solid Snake is in the game. WTF?!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2006, 02:05:26 PM
O_O what? where?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 10, 2006, 02:06:54 PM
First of all, Snake doesn't belong in the game at all. Konami=/=Nintendo. Secondly, he won't fit AT ALL.

I'm disappointed. Perhaps IGN is joking?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on May 10, 2006, 02:08:00 PM
Won't fit?  Are you kidding?  He'll be a cross between Ganondorf and Captain Falcoln.

Could my dream of a Nintendo vs. The World be coming true?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: jasonditz on May 10, 2006, 02:08:47 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
O_O what? where?


IGN story

Kotaku story

Note that the Kotaku story mentions all the characters IGN mentions plus two others:

Wario and the Nintendogs
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Jin-X on May 10, 2006, 02:08:55 PM
http://revolution.ign.com/articles/707/707504p1.html

Snake!!, Kid Icarus.

arg. beaten by mere secs. Well Nintendo sure pulled a fast one on us.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 10, 2006, 02:10:28 PM
What...the...hell?

OUT OF NOWHERE!

I demand pics now!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 10, 2006, 02:11:04 PM
Nintendogs... What?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: jasonditz on May 10, 2006, 02:11:18 PM
Wednesdayaton?!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Jamaican Mario Scholar on May 10, 2006, 02:11:56 PM
I can't imagine a Nintendog doing a double jump..
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: jasonditz on May 10, 2006, 02:14:33 PM
Darn Kotaku and their tendancy to keep making new links for the same story.

This one say the game will "likely" use the Gamecube controller, and not the Wii controller.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Wesisapie on May 10, 2006, 02:17:02 PM
time to stop complaining about "NO SSB ".... what else do you want them to do? how about making the console free? i guess still some people would not be happy.

but lets be honest this was COMPLETELY out of the blue!!! not using wii controller (using gamecube instead) because it "kind of gets in the way" or something. interesting......

this is probably the biggest surprise of e3 from nintendo!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2006, 02:17:06 PM
Metaknight!

Im being a hypocrite Ive never played a kirby game but metaknight is so cool!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 10, 2006, 02:17:44 PM
I'm glad I was at home instead of work when I read this.  When I saw MetaKnight and Pit on there I clapped my hands and yelled quite loudly without even thinking.  But seriously, Nintendogs?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 10, 2006, 02:18:55 PM
PITT!

Wario?!?!!

WARIO!!!!!!!!!

I LOVE YOU NINTENDO!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 10, 2006, 02:18:57 PM
I feel betrayed.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: jasonditz on May 10, 2006, 02:19:56 PM
Sounds like it's not coming out until 2007. Better late than never I guess.
 
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Wesisapie on May 10, 2006, 02:20:26 PM
****pics******

enjoy!

http://www.joystiq.com/media/2006/05/DSC_3379.jpg

http://www.joystiq.com/media/2006/05/DSC_3381.jpg  

http://www.engadget.com/media/2006/05/DSC_3387.jpg

http://www.engadget.com/media/2006/05/DSC_3388.jpg

http://www.engadget.com/media/2006/05/DSC_3368.jpg

edit: some other characters there...?  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Karl Castaneda #2 on May 10, 2006, 02:20:45 PM
I am a happy dork.

Happy happy happy.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 10, 2006, 02:21:33 PM
PIT IS ****ING HOT!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on May 10, 2006, 02:23:05 PM
"The result is Super Smash Bros. Brawl, one of the first Wii titles to avoid motion-controlled attacks."

Someone tell Ian so he'll finally STFU about that.

In the mean time.

CARDBOARD BOX FTW.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 10, 2006, 02:23:16 PM
Images from conference!





Link to more images.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 10, 2006, 02:24:22 PM
Am I the only one who feels a little sad that it's not exclusive to Nintendo characters anymore?

Anyway, great news otherwise and glad to see this title isn't getting ignored as it's what I'm most looking forward to on the system.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 10, 2006, 02:25:29 PM


Hahaha, looks great!  I can always...not play as the 3rd party characters, so whatever...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Wesisapie on May 10, 2006, 02:25:58 PM
NINTENDOG PIC



CHARACTERS  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 10, 2006, 02:26:54 PM
I take it the cardboard box is Snake's Down+B.  That's hilarious.  The Smash Bros. logo on the box is a nice touch.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: joedick on May 10, 2006, 02:30:02 PM
IGN is saying that nintendogs are an 'item' not characters.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: TerribleOne on May 10, 2006, 02:30:07 PM
oh great.. we get to witness people stealth their way with snake to knockin people off the course...

on a serious note... i think with snake in the game it probably means that many other outside characters might be included like sonic cuz seriously... snake? wat will his special moves be.. hide under a box?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 10, 2006, 02:31:12 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
Am I the only one who feels a little sad that it's not exclusive to Nintendo characters anymore?


I do...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: 1day on May 10, 2006, 02:31:49 PM
"During E3 Last year, Miyamoto approached Masahiro Sakurai, the series creator and now independent developer, insisting that he make a new Smash Bros. To make it happen, Nintendo put together a team to assist Sakurai. The result is Super Smash Bros. Brawl, one of the first Wii titles to avoid motion-controlled attacks.


Super Smash Bros. Brawl be fully compatible with the GameCube controller. Sakurai's reasoning is simple. He doesn't want to alienate gamers that prefer the traditional gamepad.


The game will feature online multiplayer.

Super Smash Bros. Brawl will not be a launch title. Sakurai has confirmed a 2007 release."

GCN CONTROLLER USABLE

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/05/10/super-smash-bros-brawl-revealed-for-wii-featuring-solid-snake/
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 10, 2006, 02:32:08 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Crimm
Link to more images.


I can die happy now...

EDIT: Hey 1day, got a link for those quotes?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 10, 2006, 02:33:32 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: TerribleOne
snake? wat will his special moves be.. hide under a box?


Cheesy dialog about Peach's butt.  He could be a lot like Star Fox, gun toting.
Now we need Sonic and MegaMan.  That would make this game ultimate ruleage.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 10, 2006, 02:34:20 PM
Makes sense, though I do wish they'd put in the effort to make the control unique...Oh well, it's SMASH BROTHERS!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: jasonditz on May 10, 2006, 02:34:43 PM
I wonder if Snake's inclusion means anything deeper. This isn't like putting Sonic in: Snake has become almost synonymous with Sony over the past decade. Is this maybe a sign that wii might be getting its own Metal Gear game as well?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: jasonditz on May 10, 2006, 02:36:14 PM
Mega Man and Simon Belmont really ought to make appearances as well.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 10, 2006, 02:39:52 PM
Open shut case... close the polls, the game of 2007 is already coming!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Wesisapie on May 10, 2006, 02:40:08 PM
solid snake in a nintendo first party game... its ... just....     SNAKES ON A PLANE!!!!

THAT IS ALL I CAN SAY!! excuse the pun. direct hit on sony warship indeed... hahaha...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 10, 2006, 02:42:25 PM
Snake is probably the only third-party character I would ever forgive nintendo for putting in smash brothers. Maybe even thank, after a while.

But yeah, what? OUT OF NOWHERE.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 10, 2006, 02:43:42 PM
I mean, Solid Snake is HUEG.  If they really wanted to spit in Sony's eye they would have gone after Crash Bandicoot.

It's not like Vivendi is doing anything good with him.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 10, 2006, 02:47:26 PM
"Under the direction of series creator Masahiro Sakurai, Super Smash Bros. Brawl will feature two control modes: motion-controlled and classic, GameCube-style combat. That means players who prefer to play the game with the traditional control setup can do so using the GameCube controller they're already accustomed to while the new motion control adds a new dimension previously not available in fighting games."


Good, the motion-sensing is still in for those who want to play that way! =D
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 10, 2006, 02:47:28 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Crimm
If they really wanted to spit in Sony's eye they would have gone after Crash Bandicoot.

It's not like Vivendi is doing anything good with him.


Yeah... cause no one likes him anymore. :P
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Jin-X on May 10, 2006, 02:48:08 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Crimm
I mean, Solid Snake is HUEG.  If they really wanted to spit in Sony's eye they would have gone after Crash Bandicoot.

It's not like Vivendi is doing anything good with him.


Nobody cares about Crash, Snake is a far bigger slap than Crash. Also Ign says you can play it with Wiimote as well as GC pad as has been reported.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 10, 2006, 02:52:52 PM
"Sakurai said the decision to include Solid Snake when Hideo Kojima himself practically "begged" to include the Metal Gear character in the last Smash Bros. game. When asked about the possibility of Sonic the Hedgehod appearing in the game as well, Shigeru Miyamoto said: "There are probably possibilities for other third parties as well, and maybe that even now there are corporate discussions going on about including some of these other characters."
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: thepoga on May 10, 2006, 02:54:43 PM
SONIC!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2006, 02:57:06 PM
It would be terrible if Snake is in being such an oddball among the rest and not sonic, the third party character that makes the most sense to belong to this game.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on May 10, 2006, 03:00:55 PM
http://media.revolution.ign.com/media/748/748545/imgs_1.html

HOLY F*CKING CRAP!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: stevey on May 10, 2006, 03:02:31 PM
OMG this better not be fake what next halo people lol
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2006, 03:03:45 PM
I really dont like Zero Mission's suit, besides samus haircut is horrible [/lamecomplain]

The rest is too damn fantastic

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 10, 2006, 03:04:19 PM
"It would be terrible if Snake is in being such an oddball among the rest and not sonic, the third party character that makes the most sense to belong to this game."

Sorry, try again. Snake fits in with Link and Samus.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 10, 2006, 03:04:42 PM
NEED...VIDEO...NOW...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on May 10, 2006, 03:06:36 PM
I'm sad about it not being Nintendo only.
But I hope the do the whole stumbling into summon elses universe with the new non-nintendo characters.  I always find the comments and bewilderment in those things funny.


On the whole Snake thing.  He did have a game on the cube and...

According to the controller Sony and Nintendo is sort of related by blood... ;-P

(Ok it's a plug but I thought that it was funny idea and made those pics.)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caliban on May 10, 2006, 03:06:48 PM
Nintendo is kicking everyone's arses in this year's E3, Kudos to Nintendo!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2006, 03:07:48 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"It would be terrible if Snake is in being such an oddball among the rest and not sonic, the third party character that makes the most sense to belong to this game."

Sorry, try again. Snake fits in with Link and Samus.



but a Mario vs Sonic fight is the type of event gaming has been waiting for decades, its bigger than anything else.


Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: JoeSmashBro on May 10, 2006, 03:08:04 PM
I AM SHOCKED. I AM FLOORED. THAT'S WHY I'M TYPING IN ALL CAPS AND USING MANY EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!11
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 10, 2006, 03:11:45 PM
Son of a bitch trailer IGN Insider only!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: eljefe on May 10, 2006, 03:11:47 PM
sadly

it looks like this will be the first smash game I won't own

thank you, all those who feared change. I'll be back when they add motion controls...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: jasonditz on May 10, 2006, 03:12:44 PM
Mario versus Sonic is too big to pull off in SSB. That deserves a game all its own. Maybe where you can play as either character and go through a bunch of missions to "Get" the other. Sort of like what they did in Sonic Rush with Blaze the cat, only the characters are each in the other's universe. Sonic running around the mushroom kingdom... Mario battling his way through Mobius.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on May 10, 2006, 03:13:50 PM
They did Bill and other have mentioned it.  It's a dual system.  There motion controls if you want them but classic if you don't.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Garnee on May 10, 2006, 03:13:55 PM
Is this what being in Heaven feels like?

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 10, 2006, 03:14:17 PM
"thank you, all those who feared change. I'll be back when they add motion controls... "

Motion controls are in there. Gamecube is just an option.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: SixthAngel on May 10, 2006, 03:14:30 PM
Its not like Metal Gear was an awesome original game for the NES or anything before Solid came out.
Despite the fact that Metal Gear games all go to playstation (I only had the first solid title)  I still think Nintendo when someone says Metal Gear because it was one of my favorite NES games.  This is probably why I don't see it as that strange for Snake to show up.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nick DiMola on May 10, 2006, 03:14:55 PM
OMGWTFBBQ!!!!!11!!!! This is f*cking amazing! I love you Nintendo sooooooooooooooooo much!

Solid Snake is a total kick in the junk to Sony. Nice move Nintendo, I love you more with each passing day.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: The Omen on May 10, 2006, 03:15:35 PM
Quote

Tue May 09, 2006 10:43 PM  

The Omen:

I think we're all forgetting tomorrow still exists. There's bound to be interviews and info exchanged behind closed doors, and we're definitely going to hear more than we have now. I'm not saying everything, but more.


(and now, for some long overdue narcissism) Wow, I'm incredible!

Quote

thank you, all those who feared change. I'll be back when they add motion controls...


?  The name still stinks.  And shame on you for never owning a Smash game before...tsk tsk...  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2006, 03:16:29 PM
I think IGN reported there are motion controls as well. If there are not, is because theres a reason. All my doubts about the implementation of the controller, even my long rants about Zelda, are gone, I knew Nintendo wouldnt screw this up.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nick DiMola on May 10, 2006, 03:19:43 PM
I was just thinking, Nintendo announced all these new characters, how awesome would it be if they continuously updated the game throughout the life of the system. New characters, new levels, new modes. My God this is going to be the most amazing smash bros game yet.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: toad on May 10, 2006, 03:21:31 PM
wheres bowser???? and peach???? and luigi???? and toad???? MANY MORE CHARACTER BETTER BE REVEALED lol im jj i happy with wat we gott
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Garnee on May 10, 2006, 03:26:06 PM
OMFG HAX TEH INTERNETS EXPLODE @ SSBB LOLOMGWTF
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caliban on May 10, 2006, 03:28:55 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
Son of a bitch trailer IGN Insider only!


Go check again, you'll be surprised !
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 10, 2006, 03:31:27 PM
I checked, downloaded, saw and, well, probably better not describe the rest.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caliban on May 10, 2006, 03:35:28 PM
IT"S SOOOOOOOOOO FREAKING AWESOME! the trailer I mean. Is Nintendo trying to give me a heart-attack from so much excitement? Holy gosh, awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: AnyoneEB on May 10, 2006, 03:36:22 PM
toad: Bowser, Peach, and Luigi are already in the game. I see no reason to expect them to cut characters that were in SSB:M, although they will probably cut some levels again. I expect a lot of secret characters (at least as many as SSB:M).
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: eljefe on May 10, 2006, 03:38:17 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: PaLaDiN
"thank you, all those who feared change. I'll be back when they add motion controls... "

Motion controls are in there. Gamecube is just an option.

that was easy

I'm back

*loading trailer now*
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 10, 2006, 03:39:45 PM
My purpose in life is now to get this game! I need to find a huge version of that trailer to save, as I'm going to run that thing into the ground.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on May 10, 2006, 03:40:05 PM
The part where Samus loses all her armour is the best.  There should be more of that in Nintendo games.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Garnee on May 10, 2006, 03:40:17 PM
I watched the trailer.  There's no way in Hell there will be a game better than this.   Ever.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on May 10, 2006, 03:41:46 PM
PETITION TO HAVE REGGIE IN SSBB: http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/putfilsaimeinsmash/signatures.html

SIGN IT, LEST YE INCUR HIS EARTH-SHATTERING WRATH.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kraven on May 10, 2006, 03:42:20 PM
Does the trailer cut out at a point during the snake part for anyone else?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 10, 2006, 03:43:39 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Kraven
Does the trailer cut out at a point during the snake part for anyone else?


it kept cutting out at around 15% for me at first, but it runs all the way now with no problems.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Garnee on May 10, 2006, 03:44:50 PM
Character idea: Phoenix Wright, Edgeworth, and Gumshoe. Gumshoe could use the Blue Badger as a weapon. =P


Maybe Samuel L. Jackson could be a character? He'd attack with swears and beer. His taunt would be "ENGLISH MOTHER F'ER, DO YOU SPEAK IT?" and his level could be a plane with snakes on it.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 10, 2006, 03:46:41 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
The part where Samus loses all her armour is the best.  There should be more of that in Nintendo games.


Would those be part of the "touch generation" of games I can play on my Wii?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on May 10, 2006, 03:48:54 PM
IGN's Video of the trailer

First of I like Opera but I don't think it's a good fit for this but I like the ending.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on May 10, 2006, 03:49:50 PM
Kraven: It cuts out right after revealing his status as a new character.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: eljefe on May 10, 2006, 03:51:47 PM
why does Nintendo do this to me?

I'm actually looking for reasons to write off some games simply because I CAN"T AFFORD ALL OF THEM

Brawl is must-have now

I said wow (at the graphics and animation)
I laughed (at Wario's nuclear fart...only Nintendo would pull that one)
and
I feel like playing it NOW

I wonder if the sound effects come thru well on the Wiimote speaker? The sound of the trailer was impressive.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 10, 2006, 03:53:43 PM
BEST...TRAILER...EVER!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 10, 2006, 03:56:04 PM
My god, the very end.  Hilarious.

NEED NOW!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MANTI5 on May 10, 2006, 03:57:11 PM
Bowels are evacuating everywhere.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2006, 03:58:18 PM
"estimated download time 2 hours"

T___T

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ThePerm on May 10, 2006, 03:58:21 PM
it looks kickass...itd better be online
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on May 10, 2006, 03:58:22 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Crimm
Would those be part of the "touch generation" of games I can play on my Wii?


Sure, if that's how you want to put it.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kraven on May 10, 2006, 03:58:57 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Kraven: It cuts out right after revealing his status as a new character.




No it was during the part when the old dude was talking to Snake, but I redownloaded and I see all of it in its glory now.  Score!

SSBB for teh win!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2006, 03:59:19 PM
Its confirmed online

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Louieturkey on May 10, 2006, 04:06:06 PM
I thought we knew online already, just that at this time they can only do 2 player.  They are trying to get it to work with 4 player hopefully before they have to release it.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 10, 2006, 04:10:41 PM
You know, I think they would have an easier time getting two players at one site and two at another.  Three at one one at another.
The less sites the less badwidth.  

I kind of hope for that.  If I wanted to play with one friend online and the 2 others that live in town at once, I wouldn't want to have to have 4 Wiis.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ThePerm on May 10, 2006, 04:15:52 PM
oh yeah, reggie and iwata..along time ago

im just saying it kicks ass so much..it must be.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Fro on May 10, 2006, 04:26:26 PM
Just when it couldn't get any better...

Guess who's doing music for the game (he did the main theme that you hear in the trailer)?

Nobuo Uematsu!

http://www.smashbros.com/en/music/index.html  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Louieturkey on May 10, 2006, 04:34:33 PM
I just wii'd my pants with that news. The composer for all things Final Fantasy is doing the Smash Brothers Brawl music??!!!!!!!!  I saw him in a Friends of Final Fantasy Concert in San Francisco.  That man is so cool and his music is awesome.  Have to get the soundtrack now as well.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2006, 04:34:43 PM
This is insane, the FF guy? OMG!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 10, 2006, 04:37:13 PM
I could cry... Nintendo should of just scrapped the whole press conference and talked about the details for Smash Bros., I think I would have been 10 times as happy.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Fro on May 10, 2006, 04:39:08 PM
Main Theme
http://www.smashbros.com/en/music/mp3/main_theme.mp3
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: nickmitch on May 10, 2006, 04:42:16 PM
Ok, so for my senior year, I'm having 2 study halls and PEIII just so I have time to play my Wii (after the football season). I'll also have to put my social life off for another year. . .
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Shecky on May 10, 2006, 04:48:38 PM
Trailer comments.... Best part is when they're updating the characters from SSB:M in the beginning and Kirby has a slightly look on his face after he doesn't change (what's to change )... I love it!  lot of hints given, SSB item for massive combos (or if your a sony rep... MASSIVE DAMAGE!! :p) ... Nintendogs item that obstructs the screen - brilliant!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2006, 04:50:01 PM
OH GOD

THE VIDEO!

THE MUSIC, is with choirs and all...

Im going to cry T_T
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Famicom on May 10, 2006, 04:51:30 PM
Link's Triforce combo special looks wickedly awesome!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Louieturkey on May 10, 2006, 04:55:12 PM
This is definitely one game I don't want to live without.  From reading the bit about the music, I think Nobuo Uematsu is only doing the theme to the game.  Still awesome though.

That story on how Masahiro Sakurai came to be director of the game, it seems he made a lot of sacrifices to do this game.  The fact that Eiji Aonuma's words to him are what convinced him is pretty amazing.  I'm glad he decided to do it because I agree that it would have lost some part of its soul if he was not a part of it.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Zach on May 10, 2006, 04:59:42 PM
Quote

Ok, so for my senior year, I'm having 2 study halls and PEIII just so I have time to play my Wii (after the football season). I'll also have to put my social life off for another year. . .


meh, social life, who needs that, my friends are going to think I died (unless they get a Wii too, so I can kick their @sses)  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ThePerm on May 10, 2006, 04:59:47 PM
http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3story.html?sid=6150506&pid=928518

"The next questioner raised a major issue, asking if Super Smash Bros. Brawl would support the Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection. Sakurai said his team will try to take the game online, but he thinks it would be a hard to make four-player online work."

they'd better.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: cubist on May 10, 2006, 05:00:24 PM
My nephews were raised on Super Smash Bros. Melee...and they were here to watch the trailer with me...they jumped up and down and threw high-fives all over the room.  It's hard putting them to bed when they're this excited.  I'd have to say that Nintendo definitely came through.  Although, this trailer would've been best served to end their press conference.  Nintendo has definitely kicked some ass and taken some names this year.  

Two words:  KILLER APP!!!  

 
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 10, 2006, 05:01:30 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: cubist
Two words:  KILLER APP!!!


Oh hell yeah, say it again! I have never been this excited about a game before, as I am for SSBB.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 10, 2006, 05:03:56 PM
If they'd put it at the end of the presentation no one would have cared for the other games today.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 10, 2006, 05:05:57 PM
Oh wow.  Wow wow.
Wow wow wow wow wow wow wow wow.

I friggin said it.  So many times.
This is. . . I didn't think E3 could get any better, even if they did reveal Smash Bros.  This exceeds expectations.  As usual, they thought of everything.

I was originally opposed to 3rd party characters, but I love the way they incorporated Snake.  Classic Nintendo humor, while still maintaining his character.  He fit surprisingly well.  It's actually reassuring, to see these characters seem to work so well together.  I like the idea of game characters (especially Nintendo and others) and gamers getting along together (even if they are technically fighting in the game, it's good-humored, friend-like fighting ).

Best news.  I loved the trailer, it was awesome.
Nintendo is king.  That's all there is to it.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: cubist on May 10, 2006, 05:07:24 PM
That's true.  Just about ready to load that trailer on to my iPod so I can watch it on the showfloor tomorrow morning.  I didn't get to go today as planned...like some of us here...work beckons...but I'll be there bright and early tomorrow.  Doors open at 9am.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kraven on May 10, 2006, 05:21:13 PM
The best part is when you see Samus come down and start charging up and then BOOM she pwns the n00bs.  Ownage to the max.

Those combos look exceedling sick, Kirby boiling Mario, that Tri Force combo guarantees me playing as Link in this game and Marios fire balls look like a combination of Ho Ohs attack and Raikous from SSBM.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 10, 2006, 05:30:10 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
"Under the direction of series creator Masahiro Sakurai, Super Smash Bros. Brawl will feature two control modes: motion-controlled and classic, GameCube-style combat. That means players who prefer to play the game with the traditional control setup can do so using the GameCube controller they're already accustomed to while the new motion control adds a new dimension previously not available in fighting games."



Where did that quote come from, most sites still say it is GC controller only.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Jensen on May 10, 2006, 05:34:00 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Crimm
You know, I think they would have an easier time getting two players at one site and two at another.  Three at one one at another.
The less sites the less badwidth.  

I kind of hope for that.  If I wanted to play with one friend online and the 2 others that live in town at once, I wouldn't want to have to have 4 Wiis.
It is more of a lag issue, getting everything to work in an intricately balanced game that has a lot of focus on timing.

I love the Nintendog blocking the screen.
 
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BigJim on May 10, 2006, 05:34:07 PM
Oh my god, that trailer is insane. Wow. Why did they hold this back?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on May 10, 2006, 05:34:14 PM
The only problem I can see is that, since you can use the GCN controller also, the motion control won't be used to its full potential. I wanted a completely redesigned scheme which advanced the game further, but as it stands, the motion controls may seem tacked on. And if they are truly different than the traditional controls, which control scheme will have the advantage during fights?

However, the rest is unbelievable..

Jim: You said "wow"
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Zach on May 10, 2006, 05:42:45 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: BigJim
Oh my god, that trailer is insane. Wow. Why did they hold this back?


They might have been afraid that if they showed SSBB at the press conference, people would assum it was playable, and then burn down the convention center the next day when there was no SSBB station.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Sessha on May 10, 2006, 05:44:32 PM
That's what I was thinking, I don't know if they would tack on the motion controls.  If that is the case I would think the Wii controller would have an advantage.  You may be able to dodge or run faster.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Jdub03 on May 10, 2006, 05:53:18 PM
im thinking smash attacks and special attacks will be mapped to the motion controller. moving would be done with the analog and maybe dodging with the nanchuku(tilt left or right maybe.  I cant wait.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Shecky on May 10, 2006, 05:55:37 PM
I'm thinking they could push new characters/content to you, while you sleep...

This game is set up to be modular like that... new levels, new characters, new trophies... hmmmmm  

Edit: Avatar change for a week, b/c of this announcement.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on May 10, 2006, 06:01:21 PM
I think they didn't show this at the conference because that was more of a mainstream thing, they invited lots of mainstream media who likely wouldn't have cared about Smash Bros.

Man, this is so freaking sweet. I'm watching the trailer over and over again.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MattVDB on May 10, 2006, 06:02:38 PM
I have to admit, most of Melee, as of late, has been 2 player.  The fact that they have that up and going now, is awesome news.  If they can get 4, it's butter, but not deal breaker.

The new video though absolutely kicks, can't wait.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 10, 2006, 06:07:03 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: MattVDB
I have to admit, most of Melee, as of late, has been 2 player.  The fact that they have that up and going now, is awesome news.  If they can get 4, it's butter, but not deal breaker.



If they can't get 4 people playing over Wifi to work, hopefully they can at least get 2 people on Wifi with the rest as bots if people want, so at least the field is full for those who like it that way.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caterkiller on May 10, 2006, 07:21:24 PM
GOOD GOD MAN! HOLY SMOKES AND GADZOOKS! This truely tops off E3 like nothing else could, well maybe if Nights ever shows up. But I mean sheash, the graphics look wonderfull, the new characters and special attacks looks soooo  amazing I just... It amazes me how games get me so emotionaly driven, and I thought for sure we would all be dissapointed by no appearance of Smash at all. 3rd Party characters will no doubt drawn in a new crowd, Solid Snake?! There is no way that Sonic won't appear on this, especialy with Nintendo of Japan taking in suggestions from the public as to who they would like to see in the game.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Chris1 on May 10, 2006, 07:25:28 PM
How awesome!! Please let Wind Waker Link and Tetra be in this also!!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on May 10, 2006, 07:45:47 PM
Can't see the video from where I'm at.

Quote

Main Theme
http://www.smashbros.com/en/music/mp3/main_theme.mp3

Smash Bros. is completely undeserving of that music. Beautiful.

 
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hocotate on May 10, 2006, 08:17:09 PM
I said I just wanted to be completely surprised... and boy was I!!! Solid Snake!? Now pretty much anyone and anything is a possibility as a playable character in this. Nintendo has just won back the industry.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: TrueNerd on May 10, 2006, 08:43:58 PM
I love going on the internet not expecting any surprises and BAM! Super Smash Bros Brawl smack me right in the kisser! Did Nintendo purposely hold back their best stuff from their conference, or was that a mistake? Anyways, w00t! Let's hope they get that wi-fi multiplayer number up to four, because that would be the only thing holding this back from perfection.

Kid Icarus is TOTALLY being resurrected.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 10, 2006, 09:38:35 PM
Alright, just checked back after work, saw the updates. Saw the pictures. I had a major joygasm. Like, the kind you need to clean up with a mop. I can see Wario's TASTE BUDS. Anybody who thinks Wii's graphics aren't good enough can suck it.

It's nice to hear Hideo Kojima was begging Nintendo to put Snake in, because I always thought he hated Nintendo. On the other hand, what if this gives Sony or Microsoft ideas...?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KirbySStar on May 10, 2006, 10:10:34 PM
lol if it's Microsoft it'll be hilarious because really what do they have to work with?  Bungie, Rare, and Lionhead characters and maybe a touch of DOA.  Pathetic.

If Sony did it, it might be cool but it would instantly be touted by people as a knock-off.

Besides now that Snake is in SSBB it opens up doors for other third parties which would be much more willing to hand characters over to Sakurai and get his special care and treatment.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 10, 2006, 10:15:54 PM
I don't think I want all kinds of third party characters. Snake, maybe Sonic and Viewtiful Joe, but any more than that and it'd get a bit iffy.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: The Traveller on May 11, 2006, 12:01:09 AM
Really all they need is the following : Sonic, Megaman, Snake, Cloud. O and reggie!  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nile Boogie on May 11, 2006, 12:27:45 AM
God loves us and Nintendo for this is good works indeed. The trailer is the most wonderful thing I have laid eyes on in quite some time. Indeed beautiful! How am I going to work thinking about this game?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on May 11, 2006, 12:33:01 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Shecky
I'm thinking they could push new characters/content to you, while you sleep...

This game is set up to be modular like that... new levels, new characters, new trophies... hmmmmm  

Edit: Avatar change for a week, b/c of this announcement.


I'm more interested in the ability to release balancing patches. Perfect balancing on launch is impossible but with user feedback it should be possible to make all characters be balanced a few months after the release. No more tiers.

I like the Pit design and I hope Snake can still attach C4 to things like he did in World Fighters. Konami loves putting their characters in unrelated games (Wai Wai World, Konami Racers, World Fighters, etc) so maybe we'll see Belmont, too. Perhaps Capcom is willing to contribute Rock and Roll? Who else would we need for the entire Captain N team (except for the Captain himself, obviously)?

Suitless Samus looks good considering what they had to work with.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on May 11, 2006, 12:43:11 AM
Uhh I don't like the idea of patching GAMEPLAY, that's only for crap games. SSBM had a perfect balance to me, I doubt there will be issues with balance in this, with the ultra mega super development team behind it.

Suitless Samus looks like the model from the end of Metroid Prime 2: Echoes.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Shecky on May 11, 2006, 01:06:36 AM
Nintendo (Japan) is asking gamers to "fill in" the SSBB roster, or at least that's how IGN translates: Nintendo asks fans to fill in roster

I'd hate to be the poor intern at the other end of those requests!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Sessha on May 11, 2006, 01:30:19 AM
I would like to see more earthbound characters.  Like Poo.  Poo and Wii go hand in hand.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 11, 2006, 03:06:16 AM
Tingle for playable character!!

Ive never been good at this game, but If hes included I'll train everyday with him to beat and humilliate all those Tingle haters as hard as I can.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on May 11, 2006, 03:08:25 AM
YES! I support mantidors post! I'd have so much fun beating up TP Link with Tingle.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: eljefe on May 11, 2006, 03:13:33 AM
after re-watching it

Pit is the most impressive thing I've seen/heard about Wii recently

I've never played (or seen) Kid Icarus, tho I heard of it.

The character model is beautiful. His animations are fluid. I mean..his wings are CONSTANTLY in motion, and the sound they make...wow.

My favorite part of the clip is when Pit breaks his bow into two swords. I don't know if that's true to the original games, but, he looks like he might be a VERY versatile fighter.

wow
wow
wow  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 11, 2006, 05:01:29 AM
Super Smash Bros. Brawl is coming, and we finally have solid information.

The best thing I could think of happening is Nintendo finally listening to its fans.

Pit is included
Wario is included
Metaknight is included
Samus without Suit (who wanted this?  I must THANK THEM!!!) is included.

But the real wildcard is Solid Snake.  As mentioned by everyone else it means Smash Brothers is truly open to all 3rd party characters.  If Sonic was thrown in I would not have believed this...but Solid Snake is just bizzarre in a GREAT WAY.

Like everyone else says I think Sonic is a definate in this game...but characters we are unsure of, but I believe must be in the game are:

Mega Man
Bomber Man

Perhaps even something odd like Ryu or Chun Li...I would perfer Chun Li, because we need more female characters.

The last two probably won't happen...but I can't see any reason why Mega Man or Bomberman who are the two of the most iconic video game characters, and have been on every Nintendo system available won't be included in this game.

I am very excited and right now they have already added enough to get me excited about the game.  If they only added Sonic, Mega Man, and Bomber Man it would be perfect in my opinion.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Athrun Zala on May 11, 2006, 05:26:23 AM
THE game of 2007

I love SSB, so this one will be a must, especially with all the new stuff (characters go SSJ XD), prettier graphics, online!, and new characters!!!

if we get Sonic, Megaman, Simon Belmont, Jill Valentine, VJ, i'll be really happy ^_________^


hmm.........what if SquareEnix is on board?? FF galore? *¬*
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 11, 2006, 05:29:51 AM
 
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: PaLaDiN on May 11, 2006, 05:33:26 AM
I don't really want to see more third-party characters. Snake is enough... he fits in and is bound to be different from the rest.

If they must add more characters though... I guess Sonic? Megaman just seems like a weaker Samus, so I don't want him in there. Simon Belmont would be cool because we don't have a whip character.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MANTI5 on May 11, 2006, 05:52:07 AM
I think Megaman (not X) could work without coming off as a Samus clone. He could use some of his classic power-ups that would set him apart.

Sonic is almost a given and Simon could be cool.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: silverwings07 on May 11, 2006, 06:12:55 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: MANTI5
I think Megaman (not X) could work without coming off as a Samus clone. He could use some of his classic power-ups that would set him apart.

Sonic is almost a given and Simon could be cool.


Megaman could become a cross between Samus and Kirby, actually.  It be kinda neat to see his steal-powers ability in the smash universe.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MattVDB on May 11, 2006, 06:56:43 AM
As much as I doubt it would happen, it would be nice to see Master Chief.  Now, hear me out on this one.  Snake is one of PS's biggest franchises.  Though not exclusive, it's huge.  Yesterday I would never have considered Master Chief, but (and this is a big but) as of late Microsoft has been recommending the Wii in combonation with the 360 (coining the term Wii60).  What a powerful marketing tactic it would be for them to offer Master Chief.  

Think of it this way, by putting him on the Wii, they are advertising themselves and the Wii.  Basically they are calling attention to everything but the PS3, which is pretty much in line with everything else they've done.  Anybody see this, or am I just really crazy?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on May 11, 2006, 07:19:37 AM
I kind of see it MattVDB.  I can even almost see Microsoft going after such an opportunity.  So, you're not really crazy, just fairly crazy.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on May 11, 2006, 07:23:26 AM
Wow, so there's super power combo items?


Very interesting....

I'm actually glad it's an item and not a power-bar or some lame street fighter knock-off.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Sessha on May 11, 2006, 07:26:08 AM
I wonder if the attack will issue in real time or it will go to a cutscene, I hope realtime if it's a cutscene it would interrupt play.  I just remembered I would really like to see Geno or Mallow those guys were so cool.  A Crybaby and a possessed doll.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: archioverload on May 11, 2006, 07:29:08 AM
Missing Olimar. Damn.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 11, 2006, 07:32:28 AM
They've revealed what, nine characters?  Give it time.  The last one had twenty seven.  This one could conceivably have even more.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 11, 2006, 07:49:56 AM
SSBM had 25, I believe, but yeah, there's time yet for more characters.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Athrun Zala on May 11, 2006, 08:01:16 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: MattVDB
As much as I doubt it would happen, it would be nice to see Master Chief.  Now, hear me out on this one.  Snake is one of PS's biggest franchises.  Though not exclusive, it's huge.  Yesterday I would never have considered Master Chief, but (and this is a big but) as of late Microsoft has been recommending the Wii in combonation with the 360 (coining the term Wii60).  What a powerful marketing tactic it would be for them to offer Master Chief.  

Think of it this way, by putting him on the Wii, they are advertising themselves and the Wii.  Basically they are calling attention to everything but the PS3, which is pretty much in line with everything else they've done.  Anybody see this, or am I just really crazy?


you know, i kinda thought that, well, not Master Chief (too dearly to MS) but maybe Banjo-Kazooie is a possibility.....
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: OverHeat on May 11, 2006, 08:14:28 AM
Wow. I am stoked. This game looks to be the shizNITE!

Online; For me personally, not having four player will be quite a blow. I always felt SSB games were a bit boring with only one on one. In fact, I remember getting the N64 version and playing it with a friend of mine for about 2 hours. After that we kinda sighed and said to each other, "Street Fighter?"  "Street Fighter." The next day two of our other friends came over and they wanted to try out this new Mario VS Link game. We didnt stop playing until the next morning at 9am when one of them had to go to work. THEN we didnt mind playing one on one as much, because it was practice for when everyone came over.  
But still, to me, SSB doesnt really shine until there are four people playing together.

3rd Party Characters; AWESOME. Gripe all you want, the more the merrier. I got over seeing characters together in games that made no sense for them to be together in a looong time ago. I guess I am the only person here who ever played X-Men VS Street Fighter, Marvel Super Heroes VS Street Fighter, etc. I mean, come on, Ryu VS Hulk? Yeah, RIGHT. No character is too odd ball for this game, ESPECIALLY if Snake is in it. Isnt he "Mr. Sneak around" guy? How opposite of SSB can that be?

If you want to complain about it because you were hoping for more Nintendo characters and you are afraid that doing this is going to reduce the amount of Nintendo characters you will see, then I have to say I understand where you are coming from and you are probably right. But you know what? I dont think thats gonna stop you from playing this game. In fact, think of all the Nintendo haters who look at that game and say "Aww its all Nintendo's stupid characters?! pfffft! Who gives a crap!" Then think about what they will say when they see their "boy" Solid Snake in there.

Other Characters;
I wouldnt mind seeing(3rd party only)
Simon Belmont(CastleVania)
Megaman(duh)
Viewtiful Joe(duh)
Rolento(Street Fighter Alpha 2&3)
Terry Bogard(Fatal Fury)
Leon(R.E.4)
Sonic(duh)
Raiden(Mortal Kombat)
Master Chief(Halo)

If Nintendo could actually pull off that many different characters from that many different games and companies, they would have practically something for everyone. Again, for anyone who actually thinks "What foo?! XXX wouldnt fit in SSB!" Remember this is a WISH list. This aint gonna happen. Also understand I can only watch Ken pummel on IronMan like he was a chump so many times before my whole thought proccess of "What foo?! XXX cant fight with XXX!" is completely shattered.
Because ultimately, I mean, you know, correct me if I'm wrong here, but... this IS a video game right? We are gods as far as video games are concerned and can do what ever we want with them right? So then, no character is to oddball to fit in any game. Hell! I'll add one more character! Dodge Viper(GranTurismo)
Hey! Does anyone remember that SSB knock off Konami did a while ago? I wonder if they could work it for Nintendo so Optimus Prime could be in SSB too?  >=)

I also found Jump! Superstars to be one of the greater fighting games ever, as it was really just SSB with Shonen Jump characters. I wonder if Nintendo could get some of those characters in SSB? I know you will immediatly point out that most of those characters are already licensed to other companies (at least the ones that are out here in the US), but isnt that the whole point of the Snake in SSB thing? With that, I guess I need to add a few more characters to my wish list!  

Naruto(duh)
Kakashi(Naruto)
Goku(DBZ)
Piccolo(DBZ)
Luffy(One Piece)
*Zoro(One Piece)

*sorry, I REFUSE to call him by his US changed name "Zolo". Thats just stupid.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on May 11, 2006, 08:23:32 AM
I think importing characters from other fighting franchises is lame. part of the fun in smash is seeing these relatively normal characters fighting out of hteir element. That's actually why I didn't like marth/roy; they didn't feel smash-y enough
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MANTI5 on May 11, 2006, 08:27:15 AM
I don't think they should venture too far away from Nintendo characters, or those closely associated (Megaman, Castlevania, etc.) with them. Snake is a neat suprise and Sonic would be a good addition but Street Fighter, Mortal Kombat, and Fatal Fury characters? That's a bit silly. As is Naruto, DBZ, etc.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: OverHeat on May 11, 2006, 08:27:17 AM
Marth and Roy were awesome. Normal?? Oh /really/? What messed up neighborhood do you live in where a plumber that eats mushrooms to grow twice his size is "normal"? Where a pink blob who inhales people to "steal" their powers is "normal"? Where a friggin ELF is "normal"? Huh? HUH?! Because...because....well, I wanna live there too.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: OverHeat on May 11, 2006, 08:28:54 AM
A bit silly. Huh... I will have to remember that while I am running upside down on a mini planet with a plumber from Brooklyn.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Khushrenada on May 11, 2006, 09:44:58 AM
I don't think anyone's mentioned this but the ship Meta-Knight is on and flys around in the background comes from Kirby SuperStar for the Snes and I just love the reference. Plus, it looks like that might be one of the stages.

As for third party characters, I personally don't want a lot included. Megaman I can understand becuase he's got a pretty strong Nintendo background. I guess you could include Sonic but to me he has a different vibe or feel compared to the other characters. Maybe it's the Sega influence.
Bomberman I could understand too because as Spak-Spang mentioned, Bomberman has been on plenty of Nintendo consoles.

One character that no one has mentioned but I think might be worth including is Earthworm Jim. He had acouple good games on the Snes and has been forgotton but he might be a character worth including.

Frankly, I don't want to see characters from other fighting games being included. Not sure why but something inside me hates the idea.

Snake I actually don't mind being included because in some wierd way he seems to fit in with the Nintendo characters. Maybe its the warped sense of humor. I love the Smash Bros. trailer with him and the trailer for Metal Gear Solid 4 they showed last year also cracked me up.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: OverHeat on May 11, 2006, 09:49:32 AM
Yes I did notice the Meta-ship, and thought that was pretty f'n cool myself. Alot of that video struck me as in-game styled. I could totally see that level starting out just as it did in the demo. In the hanger with platforms. Ceiling opens during the fight and access to more platforms above is made, probably forcing you to go up there. At some point deeper in the fight, the ship swoops down at the fighters, scooping them up off the platforms and onto the top of the ship.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 11, 2006, 09:58:50 AM
Snake is an oddball for the series...but he works in that he offers completely different ways of play.

I want characters that add some sort of variety, or sparkling innovation about them to make them unique.

Mega Man can obviously steal powers, and that will be a blast...but its his classic moves that I am most excited about.

Bomberman would be interesting, but hard to develop special moves for.  However, the fact he could have Detonation Bombs that you can let blow up at any time.  Throw Bombs that instantly Blow up, and Lay Bombs that have a time fuse...he could have some extra spice.  I think it would be cool to have his third jump be propelled from a Bomb blast...much like the Earthbound character.

Sonic I really can't think of too much original things for him.  He would be a rather bland addition...but still welcome.

Viewtiful Joe:  This character will rock.  I think it would be great to see him have time altering powers.  Like he can temporarily speed up time, but it does damage to himself slowly...or Let out a Radial attack that slows all characters down that don't block it.  Viewtiful Joe could really be a unique and special fighter.

If you are going to do Street Fighter the only two characters I would use would be either Ryu or Chun Li...and I would perfer Chun-Li to get another female character.

Simon Belmont...not really neccessary.  But could be interesting.  He has an Arcing Axe attack, Holy Water Ground Attack, and Cross Boomerang.  Not the most interesting of special moves, but definately workable.  

We need more heavy characters though...and we really haven't found any great characters that could be slow and powerful.  I guess Wario works for being another heavy weight.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Frozen Atlantic on May 11, 2006, 10:02:29 AM
OMG OMG OMFG!

SSBB FTW!
SOLID SNAKE FTW!
THIRD PARTY FTW!

But don't let people from other fighting games in. And try and make all the additions unique in their style of play.

Solid Snake. Megaman. Sonic. Joe.

And...

Cloud Strife. I'm not even an FF7 fanboy, I haven't played it all the way through. But.. Link vs. Cloud. And I know he's enver even been on a Nintendo system, but... Link vs. Cloud, dude.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MattVDB on May 11, 2006, 10:15:54 AM
Am I the only one that finds it odd at how similar Link and Samus look?  I mean really:



What is even more odd, is that I don't mind.  I personally couldn't stand the look in Prime 2, but in Brawl, I don't seem to mind.  Odd.  I'm just torn now between who I'll play as.  I've been a Samus man for years, but now I have 2 to pick from...  Hmmm...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 11, 2006, 10:22:03 AM
haha they are very alike.

I really cant stand this suitless samus in any form be it Zero mission, echoes or brawl... Fusion was so great I dont know why the had to change it to this.

But armored samus will be there anyway.



 
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MattVDB on May 11, 2006, 10:24:01 AM
Oh, and I forgot to mention.  In the original SSB my favorite combo was Samus and Beamsword.  The fact that she now has one built in is so cool.  Definately a GOTY for me.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 11, 2006, 10:29:49 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
We need more heavy characters though...and we really haven't found any great characters that could be slow and powerful.  I guess Wario works for being another heavy weight.


How' bout King Hippo, for those wanting to bring together the Captain N crew?  He's the only villain from the show that would really work well.  I'd want Little Mac to join the roster, too, if that happened.  He's not slow and powerful, but as long as we're dreaming about third party characters, I'd like to see Ryu Hayabusa.  I still think of Ninja Gaiden when I think of my NES.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 11, 2006, 10:37:44 AM
PartyBear:  That may be a great inclusion.  One) it would be a really different fighting style which is a must.  Two) it is yet another untapped video game franchise for Smash Brothers...  and Three) It could lead to another sequel for Lil Mac and Punch Out.  

You could even forgo King Hippo and Design Lil Mac to have the weight of a heavy Weight and speed like a Middle Weight.  He just can't jump very well.

You could bring King K. Rool from the Donkey Kong series for a heavy character...or King DeDeDe...but since we have Meta-Knight we really don't need him.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ThePerm on May 11, 2006, 10:40:16 AM
mario was in twin snakes, now snake is in brawl
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: odifiend on May 11, 2006, 10:46:06 AM
No mention of Llyod from Tales of Symphonia?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 11, 2006, 10:59:23 AM
" I don't think anyone's mentioned this but the ship Meta-Knight is on and flys around in the background comes from Kirby SuperStar for the Snes and I just love the reference. Plus, it looks like that might be one of the stages."

It's kinda obviously a stage :P And yes, incredibly awesome.

As for naked Samus (plz Nintendo), well, Zero Suit Samus, does anyone else think that it'll be a situation similar to Zelda/Sheik?  We did see her lose the suit after doing her super move.

Third party characters should be kept limited, and they should be as iconic as the Nintendo characters.  Snake works.  Jill Valentine and Leon would all be way too similar in terms of design and control, plus they're not nearly as recognizable.  Too generic, in a way.
Megaman could work.  Same goes for Sonic and Bomberman.  Pacman could work but let's face it, he's lame; no personality.
Simon Belmont, I dunno.  He could be different enough.
I think they'll handle it well, though.  They always have before, with everything else
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Jiggy37 on May 11, 2006, 11:46:26 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
We need more heavy characters though...and we really haven't found any great characters that could be slow and powerful.  I guess Wario works for being another heavy weight.

Jill from Drill Dozer. We need a mech character, more female characters, more heavyweights, and a female heavyweight power fighter. Jill fulfills all of those conditions.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on May 11, 2006, 11:47:49 AM
This talk of adding characters bores me.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: JGarcia050 on May 11, 2006, 01:15:13 PM
what about King K. Rool from Donkey Kong for another heavy and powerful character
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mikintosh on May 11, 2006, 01:36:16 PM
As for characters who might not be coming back (I saw somewhere that not all the Melee characters are safe), I'd wager Zelda's gone, or at least her Sheik half, as Ocarina's now almost eight years old and Nintendo's really pushing Twilight Princess. Also, some of the non-Pikachu Pokemon may be traded out for newer ones, and I think Marth and Roy are definately out.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Frozen Atlantic on May 11, 2006, 01:44:25 PM
I can believe that. But Jigglypuff's probabably safe, she's been in all of them, right?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MANTI5 on May 11, 2006, 03:14:10 PM
I'd say Marth and Roy are gone along with Pichu.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 11, 2006, 03:22:41 PM
I LOVE Roy and Marth.  They better leave at least one.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Shecky on May 11, 2006, 03:22:47 PM
No love for Marth and Roy?  I say at least one is back...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: odifiend on May 11, 2006, 03:24:19 PM
Well Fire Emblem characters are easily interchanged (like Pokemon).  Ike will probably be there if they insist on removing Marth and Roy.  Unless we have clones tripping over each other, I don't really see why any characters need to be removed - Smash bros. clone Luigi was enhanced so that he was different enough from Mario that he was no longer a clone.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: nickmitch on May 11, 2006, 03:26:29 PM
I don't think their getting rid of Jiggly, but it is possible. Mewto is out though.
Mr. Gamea and Watch may not be too safe either.
And also, Jeff and Poo from Earthbound would make nice additions. Paula would be too similar to Ness.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: AnyoneEB on May 11, 2006, 03:34:27 PM
odifiend: Llyod? Yet another sword fighter? I guess he does have the demon-techs, but I would rather have someone with more different attacks. Like Colette. B = Angel feathers: everyone dies.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: odifiend on May 11, 2006, 03:49:10 PM
anyoneEB, It is all about style, baby!  Tales protagonists definitely have some awesome techs that would fit well into smash bros. (Beast) so I stand by my nomination.  Colette, bah.  I mean they could do it if they had to, but she isn't the best fit and third party characters are going to have to be iconic or main exclusive characters.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mikintosh on May 11, 2006, 04:23:35 PM
I'd add Ganondorf to the probably cut list too, come to think of it, b/c as cool as he was, he really didn't offer anything Captain Falcon didn't, and he's not heading a franchise either. And as for Luigi, they better get him his own voice instead of just using Mario's (which they totally did) or...well, nothing, but they should.

I kinda want Daisy in, but Peach might be iffy, so having them both's probably unlikely.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 11, 2006, 04:25:15 PM
Well, Marth has always been and always will be my main man for SSBM.  We've been through thick and thin together, and I ain't about to forget that.  Marth rocks, always will.
However, I can see myself playing with another character this time around (Link and Kirby were mine in the original, then Marth, now maybe Meta Knight).  I've always wanted Meta Knight in the game.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nephilim on May 11, 2006, 04:26:01 PM
Mikintosh: what u want daisy and peach? but u dont want ganon
sad....
Daisy cant add anything that peach cant do
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Athrun Zala on May 11, 2006, 04:30:16 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Jill Valentine and Leon would all be way too similar in terms of design and control, plus they're not nearly as recognizable.  Too generic, in a way.
Leon maybe, but Jill...not really, my sis is a non gamer (the last game she played was SMW....10 years ago) yet she does recognise Jill (as "the girl form the zombie game", but still....)

Quote

Originally posted by: Mikintosh
Also, some of the non-Pikachu Pokemon may be traded out for newer ones, and I think Marth and Roy are definately out.
noooo, don't take Roy out T_T

Quote

Originally posted by: TVman
Mr. Game and Watch may not be too safe either.
he's pretty unique, iconic, and fun to play as, I don't really see him being taken out (unless they were running out of space :P

oh, and Lloyd would be interesting (although I would prefer Zelos, or Collette....we need more girls! ^^), but as the game isn't as iconic or popular I don't know :S


on a side note, if they do add Cloud, it would be another kick in the nuts to sony fans XD
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on May 11, 2006, 05:06:45 PM
Quote

Am I the only one that finds it odd at how similar Link and Samus look? I mean really:

Not to mention the guy in my avatar (and Shecky's - that stealer.)

Anyway. Finally saw the trailer. My favorite part was Pikachu's and Kirby's "transformations." (That was a joke, right?)

...Oh, looking back, Shecky already mentioned that.

Curse you Shecky!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Shecky on May 11, 2006, 05:20:02 PM
"Not to mention the guy in my avatar (and Shecky's - that stealer.)"

Geez!  I can't win...

"Anyway. Finally saw the trailer. My favorite part was Pikachu's and Kirby's "transformations." (That was a joke, right?)

...Oh, looking back, Shecky already mentioned that.

Curse you Shecky!"





Kirby's expression is priceless...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on May 11, 2006, 05:20:59 PM
Quote

Not to mention the guy in my avatar (and Shecky's - that stealer.)
Haha.. first he stole from couchmonkey and then you
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 11, 2006, 05:23:23 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
Quote

Am I the only one that finds it odd at how similar Link and Samus look? I mean really:

Not to mention the guy in my avatar (and Shecky's - that stealer.)

You do not deserve that avatar... >=|
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on May 11, 2006, 05:53:38 PM
Pit isn't a guy? What?

Or am I supposed to refer to him as his heavenly highness or something?

Quote






Kirby's expression is priceless...

Heh. See, why not make that your avatar?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Khushrenada on May 11, 2006, 06:00:35 PM
I posted this in the talkback thread and just thought I'd post it here since it touches on some things being mentioned in this thread. Plus, I like to cut and paste.




Man, I was at IGN and I see this little icon that says Smash Bros. I click it on it and takes me to a pic of Mario and Snake and I think to myself, this can't be it but to my surprise it is. I wonder if this has to do with the fact that the first Metal Gear Solid appeared on the NES. But if its true Hideo Kojima himself practically "begged" to include Snake in the last Smash Bros. game, I wonder if Nintendo made some type of deal to do this that involves more support from Kojima.

Now Wario was pretty much a lock considering he has plenty of unique moves and adventures of his own. He definitely deserved to be included.

Pit, I also expected because he's been mentioned about so much lately. Nintendo Power mentioned him as someone they'd like to see in the next game and recently ran a flashback on the game Kid Icarus. But, I expected him to be a real hidden character like Mr. Game and Watch and really surprise us.

Meta-Knight is another charcter I've been hoping for. Frankly, the Kirby universe is full of great characters and should be represented by more. I just hope they also add King Dedede as well. I'd love to battle with him.

Zero-suit Samus is the one I find most surprising. I felt if they did another Samus it would be Dark Samus or the SA-X Samus. Zero-suit just had a weak ray gun and ran around a lot. Still, she is one of the finest looking Nintendo characters. I'll choose her over Candy Kong any day.

Quick list of other characters I want to see in the game:

King K. Rool - (He's got plenty of moves)
Dixie Kong - (People always list Diddy but Dixie has more unique moves)
Ridley - (forget size issues, I want to swoop down on Samus and rumble in Norfair)
Captain Olimar - (I like him and think he could be interesting)
King Dedede - (I mentioned him already and I want to mention him again)
Star Wolf - (Give Falco his own set of moves and make Wolf a clone if necessary. I don't like clones but I really think they should include more villians)

Quick list of others that would be nice - Toad, Daisy, Diddy Kong, another F-zero character, Pokemon to replace Pichu (Squirtle), another zelda character (Ganon), Starman, Mario RPG character (Smithy or Geno), Banjo-Kazooie (seems more likely now), Marx and Wart.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 11, 2006, 06:07:13 PM
I like Pichu.  My friends put him on as the computer player (usually level one, or when we're feeling dangerous, level two) if there are less than four of us playing, and we aren't doing a serious "test-your-skills" match.
It's so much fun to just beat up on him.  Good ol' Pichu

If he is replaced, we need a comparably meek character to attack, I demand it be so.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Shecky on May 11, 2006, 06:08:44 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
Pit isn't a guy? What?

Or am I supposed to refer to him as his heavenly highness or something?



I think he just wanted you to refer to him by name, instead of just some guy

Quote


Heh. See, why not make that your avatar?


I suppose I could do that...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on May 11, 2006, 06:21:30 PM
Quote


I think he just wanted you to refer to him by name, instead of just some guy

Yeah, but if I did that, it wouldn't have made sense for me to point out my avatar, and then I couldn't have mentioned that you stole it, and then my "curse you, shecky!" line at the end of the post wouldn't have been funny. My carefully constructed Jenga tower of cleverness would've collapsed.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mikintosh on May 11, 2006, 06:24:55 PM
I think Ganon will be out just for economy of characters, and for that reason I don't think Daisy'll have a shot either; I was just think out loud. If they did have a character like King K. Rool, they'd probably have to take out either DK or Bowser lest they have to many similar heavyweights, and I don't think they're gonna do that.

If they bring back Falco, he better be significant retooled, b/c he was almost unusable in Melee.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Zach on May 11, 2006, 06:29:58 PM
Speak for yourself, I played as falco all the time
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: JGarcia050 on May 11, 2006, 07:10:58 PM
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: JGarcia050 on May 11, 2006, 07:12:43 PM
sry bout that blank reply....but anyways....what about Crono as a possible 3rd party character...that would be sweet
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MANTI5 on May 11, 2006, 07:30:00 PM
TANOOKI MARIO
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dryden on May 11, 2006, 07:30:26 PM
No, the Chrono series fell out of existence when Square and Enix merged.  I'd love it too, but... *sigh*...

Instead, lets have Shigeru Miyamoto as a playable character.  Hey, I'd be proud to have him as a trophy.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 11, 2006, 08:31:40 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Mikintosh
As for characters who might not be coming back (I saw somewhere that not all the Melee characters are safe), I'd wager Zelda's gone, or at least her Sheik half, as Ocarina's now almost eight years old and Nintendo's really pushing Twilight Princess. Also, some of the non-Pikachu Pokemon may be traded out for newer ones, and I think Marth and Roy are definately out.


Umm... what? No... why would they cut out Shiek simply because Ocarina is eight years old? Anyone care to mention how old Ice Climbers was when Melee was released? The cuts, I imagine, will come from the clones. They aren't going to slash out characters that have complete unique move sets, that would be a waste and very foolish. Come on guys, this is Sakurai.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 11, 2006, 09:50:20 PM
Didn't someone say that they said all characters from Melee would be in SSBB? I don't see why they wouldn't.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Shecky on May 12, 2006, 01:13:18 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
Quote


I think he just wanted you to refer to him by name, instead of just some guy

Yeah, but if I did that, it wouldn't have made sense for me to point out my avatar, and then I couldn't have mentioned that you stole it, and then my "curse you, shecky!" line at the end of the post wouldn't have been funny. My carefully constructed Jenga tower of cleverness would've collapsed.


Oh yeah, I understand...

Bill though... he's a little dense sometimes.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 12, 2006, 01:38:33 AM
Jiggy37:  Jill from Drill Dozer is brilliant.  It adds everything I think we need...but makes it bonus by making it a female heavy weight...and her character would be fairly unique.  I can see her drilling Massive Damage across the screen.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 12, 2006, 01:43:53 AM
Gannondorf as we know him will be out.  However, too many people wanted to see him with a unique move set and his giant sword.  I believe a fully nonclone version of Gannondorf is coming...and it will be monsterous.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UncleBob on May 12, 2006, 01:48:25 AM
Personally, I'd be thrilled if all the clone characters returned with unique movesets.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on May 12, 2006, 02:14:43 AM
I'd like to see all the clone characters return with new moves - minus Dr. Mario.  Make him a costume or something, he could still throw pills instead of fireballs.  Also, I think it would be neat if they updated "kid Link" to be "cel kid Link", but I guess they might have trouble making his design fit with the rest of the cast.

It looks like they're introducing super moves, at first I thought it was a bad idea, but then I saw that you probably need to pick up an item, which makes it okay.  It's like grabbing the Homerun bat or the Hammer.  I wonder if it will enhance all of a character's special moves?  That would be even cooler!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on May 12, 2006, 02:16:52 AM
Quote

Also, I think it would be neat if they updated "kid Link" to be "cel kid Link", but I guess they might have trouble making his design fit with the rest of the cast.

Unlike Snake?

Celda Link definately needs to be there, he'd kick ass.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UncleBob on May 12, 2006, 02:43:02 AM
If Wind Waker Link is there, I'm totally going to make a computerized match were a ton of WW Links fight a ton of TP Links just to see who's better.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 12, 2006, 02:52:48 AM
I like Wind Waker Link, and you can make him faster, and give him a dodge special to seperate him from Adult Link.  (Remember that nice dodge and attack moves in Wind Waker)

Adult Link will have some sweet new powers.  The Boomerang can have a Tornado to seperate it from Wind Waker Link.  I would also like to see Young Link, use more powerful items (Specials) for being able to Smash Attack and such...and Adult Link be more about the Sword Fighting Skills.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 12, 2006, 03:09:58 AM
I like the idea of WW Link using more items to separate him.  His Up+B recovery move could be the Deku Leaf, and his spin attack would become the Hurricane Spin so he could move around on the ground a bit when he did it.  He could use the grapple to grab somebody, then throw them to the ground and put on the Iron Boots for a hurtin'.  It would be pretty funny if there was a secret move that let him change the wind direction in Wispy Woods, too.

I still have doubts about him looking right if he were cel shaded while nobody else was, but for some reason I don't think it would be as bad anymore after seeing Meta Knight in action.

Additional:  A sweet new item would be the cucco.  You could pick it up and you would flutter down slowly, though you couldn't attack with your hands (maybe you'd bash people with the cucco like any other item), and if the cucco got hit too many times, hundreds of them would swarm the screen, damaging everybody.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caterkiller on May 12, 2006, 03:35:52 AM
If Mr Game and Watch doesn't look out of place than no one will.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 12, 2006, 04:18:46 AM
Another item idea:  One that turns a character back into its original sprite form, or a reasonable facsimile for those that were never sprites.  They'd be temporarily limited to their original abilities and sound effects, too.  I just can't think of what the item itself should look like.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 12, 2006, 04:35:01 AM
a NES controller.

which character doesnt have a sprite counterpart? I think all of them have it, even snake.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 12, 2006, 04:40:16 AM
Why are we worried about looking right?  You have Kirby and Pikachu fighting Solid Snake...there is nothing right about that...and at the same time everything is right about it.

Wind Waker Link will look amazing in the game.  

See I think Wind Waker Link should have:

Bomb-Chus for his Bombs...that don't cause alot of damage, but do supply a Smash Blast when they explode.

Flaming Arrows:  This was a great idea, but not immediated well.  It should burn on the opponet after it hits for a time doing continual small amounts of damage.

Deku Leaf: This is a great idea.  Adds a different type of recovery for Link...and can be used on the ground to push opponents away.

Boomerang needs to be replaced with something else.  Another classic Zelda power.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 12, 2006, 04:56:50 AM
mantidor:  Gannondorf for one, though he could turn into 8-bit Ganon.  Captain Falcon has never shown up in 2D except as a still, to my knowledge.  I don't know about the Fire Emblem characters, but it seems unlikely.  The Pokemon sprites don't have a lot of animations for moving around and attacking, as I recall (though I never played later Pokemon games).  The Fox and Falco sprites only ever showed their heads talking.

Spak-Spang:  I don't mean "look right" as in "OMG How can a mouse fight a person?"  I mean that I have trouble picturing a cel-shaded character interacting with non-cel-shaded characters.  Dynamic lighting in particular would make it look weird.  It's not a big deal, though there may be a technical problem with using a different rendering technique on one of the characters from a programming standpoint.  I'm not sure about that.  Anyway, after watching the video, I don't think it would look as wrong as I once thought, and if it is a problem they could shade him the same way they do Kirby and Meta Knight.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 12, 2006, 06:04:32 AM
Ok.  Reaching back into Zelda's past here are some items young Link could use and would work.

Magic Powder:  Does Little Damage, but as damage percentage increases the chance of turning enemy into another form increases.  (Enemy is temporarly without powers.)

Cane of Bryna: Could be used as his Block, since his shield won't be as strong as Adult Links.  

Magic Cape:  Make Link Invunerable to attack, but damage slowly increases as you use the item.  (Perhaps too poweful...but would make a great Item to find in the game.)

Icerod/Firerod:  Hey instead of Bow/Arrow and Boomerang how about this combo.  Freeze and Burn.  

Basically I am pulling items from Link to the Past, however Link to the Past Link was young, and could easily fit in as the Cell-Shaded Link.

I would like to keep all traditional Zelda items to Adult Link though.  So what do you guys think?

Also A fairy Item would be cool.  When released it starts to go towards the person with the highest damage %, however it can be snagged by other players for the health benefit.



Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 12, 2006, 06:40:56 AM
Golden Sun characters would be great.

A swordsman who can use psyenergy attacks.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on May 12, 2006, 07:16:01 AM
So any word on LAN or more than 4-player battles?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 12, 2006, 07:41:02 AM
Ok.  I don't think I want another RPG character that is also a swordman.  (Sorry Crimm)

I would love a Goldensun character...perhaps a Female Mage, with strong magic attacks, and even perhaps a healing ability.  That could be cool.

Hold Down Special to heal slowly, but you can't attack.  If someone touches you while you are healing it heals them too.  Hehehe...could you imagine the use of that in team battles.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on May 12, 2006, 07:54:40 AM
Maybe a wind-up Mario as an item for some purpose or another (could follow you and mimic your attacks, increasing damage until it winds down or gets hit).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on May 12, 2006, 08:01:09 AM
Seriously, guys, this will whole 6-pages of character wishing or item ideas will not influence the game. Your just leading yourself up for dissapointment.

Let's talk about something relevant like LAN or 4+ player battles....
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 12, 2006, 08:26:54 AM
LAN is something that I see being completely and utterly pointless for a Super Smash Bros. game. I mean, it's good for things like shooters, to remove the split screens, but you don't have split screens in SSB. As for 4+ player battles, no more than 4. And I hope they actually do get the net coding down.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: AnyoneEB on May 12, 2006, 08:51:46 AM
Why not more than four? SSBM fit at least 6 life counters on the bottom, and if you were using a wide screen even that would not be a problem. 8 player SSB would be awesome, although, I admit that, like the GCN LAN games, the LAN mode would probably be rarely used.

It would be a major disappointment if online play was limited to two players. I hope Nintendo has the sense to include it even if it lags sometimes.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 12, 2006, 09:09:09 AM
More than four folk battles could be cool, if the stage were large enough, but I really prefer just playing with four people.
It's more intimate, you can talk to people, you're all one group.  I noticed, playing with eight people or more on Halo, I'd only talk to one or two of them, it was too large a group to comfortably play with.  Four is a great number.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: odifiend on May 12, 2006, 09:22:09 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: AnyoneEB
Why not more than four? SSBM fit at least 6 life counters on the bottom, and if you were using a wide screen even that would not be a problem. 8 player SSB would be awesome, although, I admit that, like the GCN LAN games, the LAN mode would probably be rarely used.

It would be a major disappointment if online play was limited to two players. I hope Nintendo has the sense to include it even if it lags sometimes.


I agree that 4+ should be an option for certain stages - maybe depending on the stage there would be a certain capacity of players, i.e. Kirby's dreamland - 4, Hyrule Castle - 8.  I think if Smash Bros. is LAN it would be used tons.  Smash bros has always been a huge tournament type game, the nintendo wii even more so than the gamecube looks easy to carry around, and EVERYONE is going to own this game... or they ain't sh!t.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on May 12, 2006, 10:07:31 AM
I like to say this is thread number 2 of this sort of thing so combined I think we are over 20 pages of wishing.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 12, 2006, 10:37:29 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Requiem
Seriously, guys, this will whole 6-pages of character wishing or item ideas will not influence the game. Your just leading yourself up for dissapointment.

Let's talk about something relevant like LAN or 4+ player battles....


Okay, because this thread is much more likely to influence that part of the game.  In fact, I'm sure the developers were just getting tired of reading all this drivel until they saw the topic shift to LAN multiplayer, when they decided to start taking notes.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Jamaican Mario Scholar on May 12, 2006, 10:47:31 AM
I can't wait to snap the nunchuck wire across my friends' arms when they cheat lol
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on May 12, 2006, 03:51:21 PM
i dont want to add to a wishlist of characters (because i started that thread a while back).

i do want to point out one thing though. Even when people were mentioning a WW Link to replace young link, i agreed when people said it would look out of place, but then i remembered something. Twilight Princess has cell shading in it as well. if you recall, the segments where creatures come from the 'twilight', they clearly show what appears to be a black hole or cloud in the sky, with a colored rune or some sort and cel shaded creatures coming out of it. If they can do that in TP which is looking ultra realistic, they can do it in smash.

i'd be all for it now that i know it can be done
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: TMW on May 12, 2006, 05:02:32 PM
I think the fact that it would look out of place is the point!  It would be great to have young link be "CEL-DA", or even have a WW based stage.

Tetra's Ship as a level, anyone?

All these realistic, non cel-shaded characters running around a cel shaded environment would be pretty awesome, I say.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Grant10k on May 12, 2006, 06:07:37 PM
I think that the nintendogs item should be used in the exact same way that Mr. Saturn is used in melee.
And that Samus' ship should be a playable character.
And each possible color of master chief should be their own unlockable character with non-clone moves.
And a bunch of other stuff that won't come true.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 12, 2006, 09:35:03 PM
Oh yeah. Bring back individual entrances at the beginning of the match plz.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 13, 2006, 02:38:52 AM
Dirk:  That is right.  I forgot about those.  The Individual Entrances were pretty cool, and very much fit the concept and idea of the game.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spinnzilla on May 13, 2006, 05:23:07 PM
I'd love to Hector or Lynn appear from the first Fire Emblem game. Although he isn't Nintendo exclusive, I think the ninja from I-Ninja would be perfect for the game(he may just have a slight chance, considering Snake got into the game).  And some of the bounty hunters from MP: Hunters are bound to get in.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 14, 2006, 01:37:32 AM
I really don't want more than 4 people playing at the same time.  That would be too much.  At times 4 is already too much.  If this was a traditional fighting game...maybe I could see it.  But with how much goes on in a single 4 player Smash game, its just too crazy and to hard to keep up with everything.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on May 14, 2006, 03:46:56 AM
Not to mention the camera for 4+ players.  Also I wouldn't mind having a cell-shaded level where everyone changed to cellshaded.  Maybe some other ones that warped the characters too would be cool.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 14, 2006, 04:48:44 AM
"Tetra's Ship as a level, anyone?"

I was thinking more along the lines of Ganon's Tower while the ocean is falling down around them.
Or Tower of the Gods, maybe.  I dunno.  Lots of options.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 14, 2006, 05:04:47 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
I was thinking more along the lines of Ganon's Tower while the ocean is falling down around them.

YES, PLEASE! =D
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Edfishy on May 14, 2006, 06:37:02 AM
More than four players would work, and would actually be quite simple.  You'd just have to play on a team.

Simply, only four characters can be on the screen at a time.  Once you die, a different member on your team spawns.  This goes on until everyone on your team has been knocked out, or until the cycle starts again and its your turn to fight again.  So the same amount of characters will be on the screen as always, you'll just be able to play with more people in a quicker amount of time then playing seperate rounds.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 14, 2006, 10:11:52 AM
So you're saying a Marvel Vs. Capcom set up? That might actually work.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Sir_Stabbalot on May 14, 2006, 10:24:30 AM
The second I saw Snake in the trailer, I started to think about a level that takes place on the back of a Metal Gear.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 14, 2006, 07:07:53 PM
another secret character revealed!!!



for those that don't know who the character is: Nintendo64 Kid  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: decoyman on May 14, 2006, 07:13:43 PM
ROFL. Awesome, BnM.

I'd drop Pikachu to play as N64 Kid in a second.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Larrs528 on May 14, 2006, 08:45:56 PM
Has anyone discussed the possibility for a "create-a-stage" feature utilizing the wii remote with some sort of mario paint type setup?

You could add trees or structures from various franchises... throw in a building in hyrule next to a gigantic mario mushroom... or design from scratch with art tools... getting the physics to work well could be pretty tough.. but this would be such a sweet feature to increase replay value a hundred fold... imagine a stage where all 4 players landed in a bottle that filled up the screen... getting others up to ridiculous 700% damages before being able to fling them out of a tiny hole at the top.... or a board slanted 45 degrees from the top left to bottom right... the kinds of things developers would never put in as an actual stage but might be hilariously fun to try...think back to the original excitebike and how entertaining it was making crazy tracks...

You could also create stage hazards... for example... set an arwing to fly in and attack or maybe even design your own from presets... would be tough to do this from scratch.. but things like super stretch rubber bands or collapsing platforms could be doable... and much more, of course...

If they went really nuts you could even plan hazards or stage alterations with the remote and some kind of motion record option... with the arwing example, you would draw the flight path and the amount of time the ship would be present and firing, then fly it off screen...

I see this as creating immense online potential for sharing online....

An aside, another possibility for greater parties could be allowing a 5th/8th player (or eliminated loser) to control stage hazards such as a latiku to dropping spinies from overhead or manning a rotating gun...  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 14, 2006, 08:58:49 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Larrs528
Has anyone discussed the possibility for a "create-a-stage" feature utilizing the wii remote with some sort of mario paint type setup?


I would rather the team focus on making other aspects better, then trying to dive into "create-a" features. I used to love those as a kid, but they have pretty much run dry with me of late. If they do create something of that nature, I hope to god that they don't go online as I would hate to have to encounter some of the crap you know people would pull (example, no ground in the level at all, etc.).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Larrs528 on May 14, 2006, 09:03:46 PM
I agree, some people would do retarded things... but I think the potential for great things to come of it outweigh the negative... there are just too many times I've wanted something from a stage and it just wasn't there to play... this would solve that... they already have a lot of work in place for engine and physics and they have a 70 person team.. I think they could implement something like this... even if it wasn't that fleshed out... could be a lot of fun... I suppose otherwise they could always release extra stages via virtual console.. though they'd likely charge for them...  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 14, 2006, 09:10:38 PM
For me, in terms of online updates, I would be more happy if the team focused on balancing the characters. I know it was mentioned before somewhere that Sakurai was aware of the tournaments and the tiers that have clearly been established, so I think it would be great if they just went in later and did things like ensure that there are no characters as weak as Kirby was in SSBM or as over powered as Falcon was in the first game. Of course it would be great if this was all hammered out before release, but tiers will appear from elements the staff might not have considered.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Larrs528 on May 14, 2006, 09:21:44 PM
This is true... overall balancing will make or break the game and it's no easy feat... I'm sure it will require extensive hours and testing... I just hope they can pull that off and add some fresh additions.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 15, 2006, 01:45:49 AM
I would not want too many online updates...unless it is Nintendo releasing just a few extra levels, or one added character.  If you push the team and force them to create more and more content then you never let that team move onto other things.

I like the idea of Custom created levels...but I dunno if that is actually worth including in the game.  It's like those games that have create-a-characters...in the end they are nothing compared to the actually designed and balanced characters that were created by a team of experts.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: attackslug on May 15, 2006, 04:48:42 AM
One online feature I'd love to see are characters' classic NES/Snes/N64 roms that are randomly unlocked as trophies.  Of course these games could come packed in with the game, but it would make for an interesting incentive to use the Wifi connection.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on May 15, 2006, 06:13:19 AM
Spak-Spang: Epic manages to release huge content updates. I don't think the occassional new character or level will take that much dev ressources.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 15, 2006, 07:24:28 AM
KDR:  Yeah, but the director of the series must be involved.  Read what Nintendo said about not wanting to change Melee, unless he was involved in everything.  I dunno why but to Nintendo he is that important.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 15, 2006, 07:33:30 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
KDR:  Yeah, but the director of the series must be involved.  Read what Nintendo said about not wanting to change Melee, unless he was involved in everything.  I dunno why but to Nintendo he is that important.


Because Sakurai is god. Case closed. He cares that much about Smash Bros, and Nintendo honors his dedication.

Personally, I think Nintendo needs to secure him and his team as more of a second party relationship. Meteos and Lumines proved that it would be a very worthwhile investment outside of just Smash Bros.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on May 15, 2006, 08:18:26 AM
The problem being that Sakurai already left one of Nintendo's second parties...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on May 15, 2006, 08:18:47 AM
But Sakurai really wants to be an indie, real bad. He was sorta coerced and guilt-tripped into SSBB by Aonouma when Aonouma hinted that the game would be pitiful without him. He's also said that he burned some bridges and lost alot of "indie cred" when he went to work on SSBB for Nintendo.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 15, 2006, 11:06:52 AM
Kairon:  Bridges can be re-built.  Sakurai probably would never have an opportunity like this outside of Smash Brothers and Nintendo like this again.

Last Smash Brothers allowed him to tinker with all of Nintendo's best known franchises.  This opportunity could allow him to work with not only Nintendo's but some of the third parties greatest characters as well.

This game could make a bigger name for himself than any previous game.  

We know for a fact that last game Sonic and Snake were both desired to be in the game by their creators.  If Snake is in it...Sonic could be in it as well.

And since Sakurai has such a solid reputation Nintendo could go and negotiate with other developers as well.  The fact that he wants to go Indie after this may even give him a better selling opportunity with getting the characters.

I truly believe we will be seeing Smash Brothers with:

Sonic
Mega Man
Bomber Man

as playable characters.  

I also think these new characters will be hidden and will be an awesome surprise when they pop up to challenge you.  I can't wait to see Sonic and tails pop up to challenge Mario and Luigi in a special battle during adventure mode.  

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on May 15, 2006, 09:56:23 PM
I don't think overseeing balancing patches is a fulltime job.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BlkPaladin on May 16, 2006, 05:36:49 PM
I doubt that Nintendo will even make balencing patches, since they are not going to have the resources out of the box to hold patches and they don't currently do it for the DS.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on May 16, 2006, 06:15:56 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: MattVDB
As much as I doubt it would happen, it would be nice to see Master Chief.  Now, hear me out on this one.  Snake is one of PS's biggest franchises.  Though not exclusive, it's huge.  Yesterday I would never have considered Master Chief, but (and this is a big but) as of late Microsoft has been recommending the Wii in combonation with the 360 (coining the term Wii60).  What a powerful marketing tactic it would be for them to offer Master Chief.  

Think of it this way, by putting him on the Wii, they are advertising themselves and the Wii.  Basically they are calling attention to everything but the PS3, which is pretty much in line with everything else they've done.  Anybody see this, or am I just really crazy?

I know I'm really late...but I agree. Having Master Chief in Smash Bros. would be a win-win. Smash is a huge popularity booster...how many times have you heard someone getting interested in a franchise because it made an appearence in Smash? Putting Master Chief in also wouldn't really hurt MS's sales...it's not like Halo fans would buy a Wii instead of an Xbox because Master Chief was making a cameo in Smash Bros.

The problem is, this would be something Nintendo would need to push Microsoft for...and I just don't see them doing that. For one thing, Halo isn't remotely popular in Japan, as far as I know. And for another thing, Master Chief doesn't really have any suitable moves.... he doesn't punch or kick, and his weaponry is pretty realistic (though I suppose covenant weapons could work.)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 17, 2006, 03:13:45 AM
First off, Master Chief in Smash Bros. = NO.  Second, Bungie is highly protective of the Halo continuity, and wouldn't let Master Chief appear in a side game.  Take a look at the DOA game that features a character that looks almost exactly like Master Chief, but technically isn't.  They invented a new character just to appear in an unrelated game so that Master Chief could remain untainted.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on May 17, 2006, 03:20:49 AM
Blk: How are they lacking the ressources OOTB? Doesn't the integrated 512MB flashdisk sound like it can hold the occassional patch?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 17, 2006, 05:15:05 AM
KDR:  I think Blk is refering to the fact that 512MB isn't that much.  It isn't really designed for patches, but designed to store game saves and the occassional downloaded game.

I guess it really depends how they decide to manage data saved to that 512MB.  How easy it would be to juggle data.  Will data be saved first to that memory, or first to additonal SD cards plugged in.  

I know I would hate to have to juggle information into that 512 MB if I filled it up with game saves and downloaded virtual games.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 17, 2006, 05:24:48 AM
Id hate Master Chief in the game, but at the end, any character is ok

love MC: you play with him
hate MC: you beat the crap out of him (with something cute like Pichu or Gigglypuff to increase the humilliation)

But all I really want and think is possible would be, besides those already announced:

Skull Kid
Sonic
Olimar (with skins of Loui and Hocotate's president)

and change link/young link names for adult link/link like it should be.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 17, 2006, 10:14:58 AM
Master Chief should not. Could not. Would not.  Be in Smash Brothers.

I don't mind opening up third party characters that are classic characters all the way back to era of NES and SNES, but to bring a character that is completely generic and boring as Master Chief into Smash Brothers is Stupid.

Really, Solid Snake is almost too generic...accept that he is the prototype for all generic stealth characters after him.  The is the pioneering generic character.  

I don't care if Nintendo and Microsoft thought teaming up like this would completely kill Sony, it isn't worth destorying Smash Brothers for the character.

Now, if MS let Rare give us Conker or Banjo and Kazooie working together...I would be ok with that.  Specially Banjo and Kazooie...you could create some interesting game mechanics with that.

Still I am looking more @ Mega Man and Bomberman and even Belmont type popularity and history before throwing a character into Smash Brothers.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: TMW on May 17, 2006, 12:44:47 PM
Has anyone suggested Leon S. Kennedy yet?  

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on May 17, 2006, 01:18:00 PM
yes, and jill valentine. oh and i think whoever mentioned Leon asked for RE4 leon (probably cuz his bomber jacket is snazzy ;-)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on May 18, 2006, 12:28:50 AM
Spak: Doesn't sound like it's too small for patches. If it can hold entire downloaded games, why couldn't it hold patches?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 18, 2006, 01:06:34 AM
"Second, Bungie is highly protective of the Halo continuity, and wouldn't let Master Chief appear in a side game. Take a look at the DOA game that features a character that looks almost exactly like Master Chief, but technically isn't. They invented a new character just to appear in an unrelated game so that Master Chief could remain untainted."

Hahahaha, they went through all that trouble and Halo still sucks.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 18, 2006, 03:23:25 AM
KDR:  You could be right...I dunno how large typical patches are for PC games.  But, those games it can download are SNES, NES, and Nintendo 64 games...they are not the largest of games, afterall.  

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 18, 2006, 04:00:11 AM
A patch is really just a new version of the executable file that replaces the buggy one.  Executables are generally pretty small.  However, since the executable won't be read from the internal storage of the Wii, but only from the disk, the game would have to be designed with future patches in mind so that it would check for an updated version when it first started.  This would be annoying to users because it would slow down boot time, and it would be disadvantageous to Nintendo because it would be an ideal method to get unsigned code to run, one of the first steps to getting pirated copies of games to work.  I think patches for Wii games are extremely unlikely.  New content is much more plausible, but it's also much more bulky.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 18, 2006, 05:16:13 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang Really, Solid Snake is almost too generic...accept that he is the prototype for all generic stealth characters after him.  The is the pioneering generic character.


Did you ever even PLAY MGS:TS?

Snake (real name Dave) is many, many things, but the very LAST adjective I would ever use for him is "generic".

He was based off of a combination of Snake Sliskin and Christopher Walken, and here's a news flash for you: everything he does, he does unwillingly. He HATES war, but he was genetically created to BE a soldier. He had to kill his own father, his own brother wants him dead and he himself would like nothing more than to leave combat forever, but as the MGS4 trailer reveals, the only way to do that might just be to take his own life.

His entire character is a protest from creator Hideo Kojima about nuclear war, having seen first-hand the devastation nuclear war can exact upon a people, and for you to call him "generic" is to spit into the face of all of that.

I'll readily admit that the characters who ripped him off later were rather generic, but play a MGS game before you go saying crap like that based on Snake's appearance alone.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Athrun Zala on May 18, 2006, 06:09:11 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: TMW
Has anyone suggested Leon S. Kennedy yet?
yep, and Jill as well, which I see more probable as she already has a fighter-game moveset created that could very well apply to SSBB (the MvC2 one), unlike Leon who has....well, nothing
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on May 18, 2006, 06:16:47 AM
Bear: Who said anything about unsigned binaries? The firmware itself could check the permanent storage for any patch files and load them instead of the file on the disc when requested. I don't think that'd be much slower than the disc drive and the executables are usually in memory all the time. Of course patch files would have to be signed. The system can already play ROMs and might run downloadable games and demos so I don't think this would be the only avenue of attack if you wanted to get binaries in there. Never mind that standardiing patches is much better than allowing Sega to implement their own easily exploited methods.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 18, 2006, 06:56:56 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Athrun Zala yep, and Jill as well, which I see more probable as she already has a fighter-game moveset created that could very well apply to SSBB (the MvC2 one), unlike Leon who has....well, nothing


Did you PLAY RE4?!? (why am I getting deja vu?)

Not only does Leon have a plethora of explosives at his disposal (which are fair game in SSB, from what it seems), but he also has a series of devastating roundhouse kicks and the dreaded "holocaust suplex", which is the term my wrestling-fan friends gave for the modified German suplex which Leon performs on enemies (a German suplex drops them on their back while Leon's suplex drops them on their HEAD, which would likely result in a fatal attack on a normal human being).

I don't think Jill's moveset in MvC would translate well to SSBB as SSBB has to be balanced around what other characters are capable of. Any movesets will likely be original to SSBB.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 18, 2006, 07:19:42 AM
KDR:  I was perhaps skipping ahead of myself.  Being able to run executable files from the user-writable storage at all would be a pathway pirates could use to get unsigned code to run.  Downloadable Wii games would probably be launched from another app built into the system like the virtual console.  This is still vulnerable to exploits through buffer overflows in the game code, but that's a risk even when running the code off a game disc.  If the console checked for new executables on startup every time, it would be possible to exploit the console itself without even needing a game.  As for speed, my thinking is that first the game would begin to start up normally, reach the part of the program that checks for a new version of itself, and then, if it finds one, reset and use the new version instead.  I can't really say how fast or slow that would be, but I'm guessing it'll take a couple of seconds to search for the file, and a couple more would be wasted resetting, and every second feels interminable when waiting for a game to load.

Regardless, I don't want my console games to be patchable.  If there is a truly awful showstopping bug, the proper way to deal with it is a product recall.  If all they want to do is change how much damage Bowser takes when swallowed by Kirby, it's not worth it.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: AnyoneEB on May 18, 2006, 07:24:41 AM
On patching, if the balance data was stored in a separate file instead of being hard coded into the executable, then a balance patch would be tiny. Maybe 20KB maximum. Of course, if it is actually fixing a bug in an executable, it may be a bit bigger.

PartyBear: (1) Everything will be signed to prevent user code from getting run, just like on XBox.
(2) Reading from flash takes milliseconds, not seconds. It is solid state, so the seek time is zero, and it can be read quite fast (not as fast as RAM, but much faster than a hard drive).

On the other hand, I agree that allow patches encourages the release of uncompleted/buggy games.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 18, 2006, 07:32:00 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Leon's suplex drops them on their HEAD, which would likely result in a fatal attack on a norman human being).

Sounds like Leon has a lot of gaul.

Edit:
Quote

Originally posted by: AnyoneEB
On patching, if the balance data was stored in a separate file instead of being hard coded into the executable, then a balance patch would be tiny. Maybe 20KB maximum. Of course, if it is actually fixing a bug in an executable, it may be a bit bigger.

Then people could edit the balance data for their own game.  Even if you catch that when they play online, they'd still be able to make themselves kill Master Hand (if he returns) with one hit.  That seems unlikely to me.

Quote

PartyBear: (1) Everything will be signed to prevent user code from getting run, just like on XBox.

So that's why there's no piracy on the Xbox?  Oh wait...

Quote

(2) Reading from flash takes milliseconds, not seconds. It is solid state, so the seek time is zero, and it can be read quite fast (not as fast as RAM, but much faster than a hard drive).

Depends.  I hope it's fast, but it takes more than milliseconds to load up game saves in some games, even when they're not all that big, and that's similar technology.  I haven't worked with solid state storage before, so I don't know how much of the speed is a product of software.

Quote

On the other hand, I agree that allow patches encourages the release of uncompleted/buggy games.

As long as we agree here, nothing else matters.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 18, 2006, 08:17:18 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: PartyBear
Sounds like Leon has a lot of gaul.


Oy...that one left a mark...  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Athrun Zala on May 18, 2006, 08:56:20 AM
SB: yeah, I thought of those movements as I was writing.
But the thing is, he has only those, then he uses guns, which if you remember Sakurai isn't very fond of (as evidenced by the fact that Snake is going to use explosives.....instead of the gun he uses in the MG games....). The point was that Jill already has a non weapon based moveset, that could fit somewhat with the SSB universe (yeah, one is a Firefox clone and the others are zombie and Tyrant summons, but still.....) so she may be easier to add to the game.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 18, 2006, 09:27:59 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Snake Sliskin


Something's not right here. I'll leave it to you to figure out.

Also, I never really figured Snake as being the prototype for all stealth characters after him. I mean, Sam Fisher as a character is completely different from Snake. Way cooler too.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 18, 2006, 09:38:03 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Athrun Zala
SB: yeah, I thought of those movements as I was writing.
But the thing is, he has only those, then he uses guns, which if you remember Sakurai isn't very fond of (as evidenced by the fact that Snake is going to use explosives.....instead of the gun he uses in the MG games....). The point was that Jill already has a non weapon based moveset, that could fit somewhat with the SSB universe (yeah, one is a Firefox clone and the others are zombie and Tyrant summons, but still.....) so she may be easier to add to the game.


It's a tough call. I'd like to see Leon because I think his character is better developed, but we'll have to see if any RE characters make it in at all.

Quote

Something's not right here. I'll leave it to you to figure out.


Oh, right, Pliskin. Wasn't a big fan of "Escape from _____" movies.

Quote

Also, I never really figured Snake as being the prototype for all stealth characters after him. I mean, Sam Fisher as a character is completely different from Snake. Way cooler too.


Fisher is far, far more generic than Snake, that and the stories to his games suck ass where as MGS tells a much better story and allows you to actually influence the plot and how it unfolds in certain places.

Fisher is just far too much of the "supersecretspyrepletewithsaltydemeanor" stereotype and the plot in Splinter Cell is as predictable as the Tom Clancy novels he was ripped from.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 18, 2006, 09:47:53 AM
"Snake (real name Dave) is many, many things, but the very LAST adjective I would ever use for him is "generic".

He was based off of a combination of Snake Sliskin and Christopher Walken, and here's a news flash for you: everything he does, he does unwillingly. He HATES war, but he was genetically created to BE a soldier. He had to kill his own father, his own brother wants him dead and he himself would like nothing more than to leave combat forever, but as the MGS4 trailer reveals, the only way to do that might just be to take his own life.

His entire character is a protest from creator Hideo Kojima about nuclear war, having seen first-hand the devastation nuclear war can exact upon a people, and for you to call him "generic" is to spit into the face of all of that.

I'll readily admit that the characters who ripped him off later were rather generic, but play a MGS game before you go saying crap like that based on Snake's appearance alone. "

Actually yes.  That does seem very generic to me.  Basically he is the still the basic Super Solider storyline.  He questions himself and war, but he is always forced into it, because that is what he is created to do.  Now he is even aging faster and stuff.

He is still a great character, and I like his story, but you can't say it isn't generic...because it is.  Sorry.  

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 18, 2006, 09:50:21 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Oy...that one left a mark...

Sorry.  I was just being frank.

So if Snake is so opposed to combat, does that mean he's being forced to fight in Smash Bros. against his will?  He sure seemed willing in the trailer.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 18, 2006, 09:57:28 AM
So...

Olimar, I really want him, but can the Wii draw thousands of pikmins as a super move? Id love to see something like that.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Zach on May 18, 2006, 10:45:52 AM
Well I was thinking with olimar that he would have 3 to 5 pikmin following him (red, blue, yellow, and maybe purple and white).  It would be similar to the iceclimbers except that Olimar's moves would use the pikmin, rather than just having them copy whatever Olimar does.  What could be a really cool thing to do is make the strength of olimar's attacks dependent on how many pikmin he had left.

I like the super move idea with thousands of pikmin.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on May 19, 2006, 04:12:10 AM
the problem with olimar being followed around by pikman, if their open for attack anyways, is that it would be much too easy to attack the pikmin before attacking olimar, which would lead to all the pikmin being ko'd and Olimar being a sittign duck. just like Iceclimbers. you get rid of Nana and Popo doesn't stand a chance.

pikmin or Olimar w/pikmin as an item would probably work better. first mr. saturn, now nintendogs as items...it would probably be easier to just make them items or maybe even a pikmin themed level.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 19, 2006, 04:13:23 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Actually yes.  That does seem very generic to me.  Basically he is the still the basic Super Solider storyline.  He questions himself and war, but he is always forced into it, because that is what he is created to do.  Now he is even aging faster and stuff.

He is still a great character, and I like his story, but you can't say it isn't generic...because it is.  Sorry.


First, play TS on the cube (you can get it used for $15 right now) because I cannot take your argument seriously until you do.

Second, what is this "generic" super soldier you talk about? Snake isn't the "Guns blazing, slaughtering thousands of enemies and yet never gets hit" type like Schwarzenegger in "Commando".

Does the "super soldier" fall in love? Is he encouraged to sneak past his enemies without ever actually killing any of them? Does the super soldier lie to protect the feelings of others?

What sets Snake apart from Kurt Russel's "Universal Soldier" is that his emotional reactions make him believable as a real human being. Why do you think the MGS storyline is so widely praised?

You can download the MGS storyline movies in AVI format from many bittorrent sites. If nothing else, find the TS movies and watch it from beginning to end. If you still think Snake is generic after watching them, then by the same token, Link, Samus, Fox and Mario are all generic because they all fit into basic archetypes which have existed for decades: the sword-wielding hero, the lone hired gun, the hotshot pilot, and the unlikely hero out to save a princess.

Not trying to be a troll here, but I just don't think you're giving Snake the credit he deserves.

Quote

Originally posted by: PartyBear Sorry.  I was just being frank.


I can't take much more of this punishment...

Quote

So if Snake is so opposed to combat, does that mean he's being forced to fight in Smash Bros. against his will?  He sure seemed willing in the trailer.


He'll fight for what he knows is a good cause, and since Wario is apparently a living nuclear bomb, he'll be willing to fight to end the nuclear threat once and for all.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on May 19, 2006, 04:26:38 AM
Quote

Quote

So if Snake is so opposed to combat, does that mean he's being forced to fight in Smash Bros. against his will?  He sure seemed willing in the trailer.


He'll fight for what he knows is a good cause, and since Wario is apparently a living nuclear bomb, he'll be willing to fight to end the nuclear threat once and for all.


Smash_Brother with the save! ;-)

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 19, 2006, 04:35:30 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: EasyCure
Smash_Brother with the save! ;-)


Two things came to my mind after watching that trailer:

First, "Oh, I get it! Wario IS "fat man"!" ("Fat Man" was the name of the nuclear bomb dropped on Nagasaki).

Second, I noted the irony that a nuclear "explosion", complete with mushroom cloud, was being used in the same trailer which introduced a character who was created as a protest against nuclear war.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Frozen Atlantic on May 19, 2006, 04:36:05 AM
Solid Snake owns. Anyone who disputes the ownage of said Solid Snake is obviously missing some cogs.

If Snake's a "generic" character, I humbly request you point out some non-generic, rounded, complex characters in video games we can compare him to. The dude from Madden, maybe? The gun guy from Doom? Fawful?

Gaming as a medium doesn't lend itself to character development, but the MGS series has done more to fight that than any game ever. The MGS characters are the most developed this side of Final Fantasy.

EDIT: Nuke humor from Japanese developers. Strange. And BTW, to the root of this discussion... Snake was on more than one NES game. He's plenty old school for Smash Brothers, way more than... Banjo Kazooie?

Not to rant, but you'd rather play with... Banjo Kazooie... than Solid effing Snake? Rly?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 19, 2006, 05:24:15 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Frozen Atlantic
Not to rant, but you'd rather play with... Banjo Kazooie... than Solid effing Snake? Rly?


I doubt we'll see BK. Though, before Rare sold out, I would have loved to see them.

I'd like for the characters from "Viva Pinata" to be in the game as item containers which need to be smashed open to acquire their contents.

Also, THANK YOU for defending Snake. I was beginning to think that I was the only MGS fan on these boards...

Unless there are some VERY surprise additions to SSBB, Snake will be the most developed character in the game, hands down (no jokes about Samus and being "developed", please :P ).
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 19, 2006, 05:46:14 AM
I dont see why Olimar should be the same as the ice climbers, he can have pikmin around him all the time, if one goes flying or gets killed he pulls one automatically from the floor. The rest is just balance, making any hit into olimar not only affecting the pikmin but also himself (i.e. pikmins are not shields, just attacks)... Im sure the dev team can come up with something better.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 19, 2006, 05:50:43 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
I dont see why Olimar should be the same as the ice climbers, he can have pikmin around him all the time, if one goes flying or gets killed he pulls one automatically from the floor. The rest is just balance, making any hit into olimar not only affecting the pikmin but also himself (i.e. pikmins are not shields, just attacks)... Im sure the dev team can come up with something better.


I've always liked the idea of Olimar for SSB. I'm sure they could balance it so he and his Pikmin would work well as a single unit.

Also, Olimar ranks up there with developed characters. I know that he has a family, including a son and daughter, and his observations about the strange planet are very scientific in nature, indicating that, although he works for a delivery company (Futurama?!) he's a great deal smarter than the work he does.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 19, 2006, 06:12:07 AM
I figured Olimar would have a few Pikmin around him and be limited to a number like 5-or 6.  However, I would make his Down Special attack to pull them out of the ground.

His special moves would be:

Toss a Pikmin (Red does damage and returns.  Yellow suicide run bomb blows up.  Purple jumps on the back and slows them down....ect. ect.)

Command Pikmin:  (Send Pikmin out to do stuff for you.  Most collect Items, but Yellow Pikmin run out and drop timed bombs around combatants.)

Olimar should have a single jump that is not very high, but has a jet pack that allows him to float.  This does not take the up special move away.  

I dunno what the fourth Powerup could be...but I believe someone could think of something clever.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 19, 2006, 07:35:37 AM
Make his block like Peach's,  Instead of holding Toad out in front of him, hold a Pikmin.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Renny on May 19, 2006, 04:59:44 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Frozen Atlantic
Solid Snake owns. Anyone who disputes the ownage of said Solid Snake is obviously missing some cogs.

If Snake's a "generic" character, I humbly request you point out some non-generic, rounded, complex characters in video games we can compare him to. The dude from Madden, maybe? The gun guy from Doom? Fawful?

Gaming as a medium doesn't lend itself to character development, but the MGS series has done more to fight that than any game ever. The MGS characters are the most developed this side of Final Fantasy.


It's easier to miss Snake's virtues in the Metal Gear series because the entire cast is generally pretty well fleshed out in both visual and literary design. Usually we're lucky if we get one good main character in a game with a bunch of headless chickens for NPCs. So having a main character that's built on the foundations of cliches makes him easy to underestimate.

Also, I hate Hideo "Nintendo is teh tiku tiku tiku! " Kojima for being Sony's bitch. At least make a 360 version, you fool.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 19, 2006, 06:18:55 PM
I've heard that Hideo wants to make games for the Wii badly but Konami won't let him.

Judging by the fact that he literally BEGGED to get Snake into SSB (he begged with melee as well), I'd say that he has more of a penchant for Nintendo than he lets on.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on May 19, 2006, 08:49:27 PM
At least make a 360 version, you fool.

Who says they aren't going to? I don't recall them talking much about the XB and PC ports of the previous MGS games, either.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Renny on May 21, 2006, 06:30:07 PM
If they're building the game/engine from the ground up for PS3, as they did for Snake Eater, I can't see them porting Guns of the Patriots to the 360 either. Unless the PlayStation truly falls on its ass. (To Phil, Ken, Kaz, et al: please fail. Thank you.)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 22, 2006, 07:39:53 AM
New Question to spark discussion for Smash Brothers Brawl:

In Melee every character got a new special move to accompany the old moves.  Most characters didn't lose any moves or had moves changed.  This led to the current system of special moves being maxed out.

So the questions are:

1)Do you want to keep characters movesets the same, and just balance the gameplay more, of course new characters would have completely new move sets?

2)Add new moves to characters that need adjustments, even it means taking other moves away.  It is better to balance characters and keep them fresh for a new game?

3)Come up with a new system for special moves so that all the old moves can be kept and new moves can be added?


Personally, I want to keep the simple move set.  It was limited, but made the game accessable.  Most characters move sets are close to perfect, but could always be refined...and some characters need complete overhauls.

Bowser needs an overhaul.  His moves just don't bring the fear and power that a character of his size and evil needs.  I would rather drop his 3rd jump and just make him even harder to Smash Hit any true distance.  Then back him up with some insane power to match his bulk.

Yoshi needs to lose that annoying Egg Roll attack for something better.
Mario could lose the Cape for a new move slot.
Gannondorf needs a completely new play style.
Young Link needs to have completely seperate move set from Adult Link.

I am sure there is others I could bring up.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 22, 2006, 07:52:10 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
In Melee every character got a new special move to accompany the old moves.  Most characters didn't lose any moves or had moves changed.  This led to the current system of special moves being maxed out.


Some characters did, though, like Kirby got a fairly awful new running charge move in Melee where he gets engulfed in fire, which was done to balance him out because his old one was too good... problem was that Kirby was nerfed way too hard and was made arguably the weakest character in Melee.

Anyway, they have the "finishers" (or what ever they will ba called) to play around with for each character, so that gives them a lot of room to add new things and elements to each regardless.

Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
1)Do you want to keep characters movesets the same, and just balance the gameplay more, of course new characters would have completely new move sets?


I'd rather the "B" moves for the non-clones stay the same. Some of them need improvments, like Kirby's hammer, but I think this should be done with balancing out things like damage, range or other added effects instead of removing them.

As for the clones, they need different movesets. However, I loved Ganondorf, and thought the idea of a "heavy" Captain Falcon was great and he was the most diverse in terms of play in regards to the clones. I would like to see someone like that again, although not with Ganondorf. I think someone like "Deathborn" from F-Zero GX would fit that role, although hopefully they would still spice it up a little more in terms of his moves to make him stand out more against Captain Falcon.

Honestly, though, I wouldn't mind if they just axed Dr. Mario, Young Link and Pichu as is. Falco, with his huge jumping, was different enough to I think merit a redesign as was Roy with that giant explosion he released with holding B, but the others I wouldn't lose sleep over if they got the axe.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 22, 2006, 08:16:53 AM
Arbok:  Thanks for your input.

I personally liked Young Link as a character in the game, but felt his execution wasn't good.  I am an proponent of Young Link turning into Wind Waker Link, and giving him different items for specials to help him feel different.

Young Link bombs should be the Bomb-Chus, and walk across the ground.

Young Link should have an attack evasion move link Marth and Roy have (Like in Wind Waker.)

Young Link should have a boomerang that parallizes the character for like a half second (Like in the original Zelda.)

Instead of a bow and arrow, he should have his trust slingshot.  

Do that and Young Link is finally, a contender and different from Link.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: AnyoneEB on May 22, 2006, 12:36:06 PM
I would expect some new game play mechanics like there were in SSB:M. You already mentioned meteor smashes (I think everyone got them, not just Kirby). On the other hand, if you want to still use the GCN controller, I am not sure how you would fit in any new moves. The only thing I can think of is there are currently two jump buttons (X and Y). Remember we are talking about the game where left+A describes at least 5 unique moves (weak, strong, meteor smash, charge-up smash, simple smash) depending on exactly how you time it. It seems pretty maxed out on controls. Whatever, I am sure there will be a few changes.

I agree that the clones should get their own moves. In order to fix balance, some moves may have to be removed, but it would be nice if, like SSB-->SSBM, you could just pick up the game and use any character from the old game and be okay at it.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: zakkiel on May 23, 2006, 03:28:17 AM
No moves new moves. I think Mario's cape move is fine, otherwise Spak-spang's list is decent. I would add DK's forward B. I can't think of another move equally useless. It's slow, does no real damage, never traps them long enough for you to add another attack unless they're at such high damage that the punch would obliterate them anyway, and can't even really spike them when they're in the air at over 100%.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on May 23, 2006, 04:59:38 AM
mario's cape should stay, i love that move. practice enough to get the timing right and watch peoples reaction when you fling a bob-omb back at them....aah i love smash :-D

maybe they can replace marios up+b (the uppercut) and incorperate the cape in some way that makes him do some kind of flying move. even if they change the uppercut slightly so that it becomes a type of grab where mario flies up and back down to power bomb the crap out of an opponent....then again thats too similar to kirby's grab move. i duno, it'd be cool to see mario fly with the cape though, with the cape or the Leaf power up from SMB3.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 23, 2006, 05:13:26 AM
EasyCure:  How about change his uppercut, into his trademark Spin Jump with the Cape?  

I would make it do less damage, but combo better, and even deflect projectiles still.  

Air Grab moves would be great, but I think that is something for Donkey Kong.  He needs to be reworked so that he is a monster thrower.  

If we replaced forward B with a special dash and throw move, that could be used in the air in any direction.  Could be very cool.

I think Princess Peach also needs something more.  Perhaps overhaul her so that she reflects more Super Princess Peach with emtion based special moves.  Her special moves in the Melee were very weak as if they didn't have much to go off of.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on May 23, 2006, 05:28:14 AM
yeah i agree about peach. there wasnt too much to go on when they designed her character really. the floating and turnip picking were the only real "moves" she ever had in the only action game she starred before Melee was developed. sure it was cute to see her smash attack use rackets and golf clubs, but this time around she has her own game and more moves under her belt, so she can be a contendor in Brawl.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 23, 2006, 05:30:49 AM
I just want the characters BALANCED, and I don't care if SSBB comes out in 2008 for balance reasons alone.

Bowser (my favorite character) can be used to strike terror if you know how to use him properly but he BADLY needs to be revamped. All of Kirby's moves should have their power multiplied by 1.75.

Remember the metal block item and how it allowed your character to shrug off weak attacks? I think the heavyweights need to have that ability. When Bowser is about to perform his smash attack, a quick tap in the leg from Pichu shouldn't make him stop and cringe.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on May 23, 2006, 05:37:57 AM
i don't know what made me think of this but what if they made a mario kart item...as in an actual kart that would zip across screen and plow anything in its way? that'd be fun lol.

ooh crazy idea for a level...remember how the final destination level the platform seemed to be getting sucked into a worm hole of some sort and you end up in a realistic world? what if there was a level simmilar to that where its a basic floating platform, but the scenery change, alot like the pokemone level, and allows diff. levels of interactivity. what i picture is something that will change it to difff nintendo themese. like one second you're on a basic platform, and in another you're on the old NES excite bike track and the lil racers could hit you (with minor damage). the change would be quick so it doesnt get stale and stays unpredictable. like you go from excite bike to one of bowsers keeps in SMB1 with lava pits, fire balls shooting up vertically/horizontally and those cool fire 'chains', then suddently everything warps so that you're fighting in another old school NES world.

it could be a virtual console level!!

(i just realized how absurd that idea is)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 23, 2006, 05:56:11 AM
I don't believe it's been posted yet, but according to the official Japanese site not every character will return...(Bye bye, clones, hopefully...)
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 23, 2006, 05:59:48 AM
I think the characters that were the least popular in Melee are the ones that will get the axe...

I think those might be Mr. Game and Watch, Mewtwo, The Ice climbers, a great deal of the clones and maybe Jigglypuff...

Seriously, who in here used Mr. Game and Watch as a serioys character?

Characters like DK, Yoshi, Bowser, Peach, Zelda, Cpt. Falcon and Ness are likely to stay since not only are they staple characters they are characters that people like and use a lot.

I don't know about the FE characters...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 23, 2006, 06:01:53 AM
"and maybe Jigglypuff..."

Noo he rocks!

Besides whats the point of Snake being there if he cant get beaten up by someone with a flower above the head?





Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 23, 2006, 06:05:14 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
"and maybe Jigglypuff..."

Noo he rocks!


I agree that Jigglypuff is a silent killer as if played right he/she becomes a killer character. I just wonder if he/she has enough support to appear again on Brawl.

If he/she does appear again in Brawl he/she will seriously become a never ending running joke of SSB.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 23, 2006, 06:05:19 AM
Bill:  I think that has been posted.

Easycure:  I dunno about a Mario Kart item...but I would love a Mario Kart level...I think that is more interesting than the F-Zero level.  (Although I admit it would be very similar.)

What would be cool about the level is that characters that weren't in the game actually playing would be the characters in the Karts...and yes that means having fun and designing Karts for non Mario characters.  Also Items fired during in the Mario Kart race could effect the fighting.  Lightning coud shrink everyone, a blue shell could smash hit the person in first place.  Lots of potential.

I do like your changing Nintendo classics level design.  It could be designed to look like a Television, and when you pause to zoom out you see a Nintendo Wii in a living room.  Then the television changes to represent different games.  Heck, it could even read the virtual console library (and trophies earned) to select which games.

Smash Brother:  I completely agree.  I think Bowser when you finally land a hit that can KO him should fly without much jump ability to get back...but he should be like trying to take down Metal Mario or something.  Bowser needs to be completely feared as a weapon of Smash destruction.


Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caterkiller on May 23, 2006, 06:08:26 AM
As big of a Pokemon fan that I am, I wouldn't mind Pichu gone, or Dr Mario. If there are going to be clones make them as different as Mario and Luigi please. I would love the other clones to stay but to have their own styles of play, not just tweaked versions of someone else.

Mr. Game and Watch is pretty popular in my smash community. I would be very angry if he was gone.  Same with Mewtwo, and there is always someone around to surprise us with Jigglypuff.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 23, 2006, 06:10:09 AM
Now that you guys mentioned the Mario Kart level...

I REALLY hope that they cut down on the crazy, fast moving levels for Brawl.

I mean, those levels were nice and all, but most of the time they were annoying and I spent the entire match trying to avoid being killed by the level rather than fighting my opponent.

Just in case I am talking about levels like Big Blue, Poke Floats, Icicle mountain and Rainbow Cruise. From the looks of the Brawl tariler they will have constantly changing stages, but I hope they don't go hogwild with them on Brawl.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 23, 2006, 06:11:16 AM
I'd have no problem with them throwing out half of the characters from SSBM.

IMHO, the secret character lineup sucked ass. Mr. Game and Watch can die in a fire, MewTwo was woefully underpowered, Marth and Roy never even appeared in a game which an English speaker could play and understand, Pichu is a weaker, sh*ttier version of Pikachu, and DOCTOR Mario?! Bleh...

Toss 'em all out, I say.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 23, 2006, 06:14:39 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang Smash Brother:  I completely agree.  I think Bowser when you finally land a hit that can KO him should fly without much jump ability to get back...but he should be like trying to take down Metal Mario or something.  Bowser needs to be completely feared as a weapon of Smash destruction.


Yeah, Bowser, DK and other heavyweights should all be able to shrug off weak attacks and grabs by small characters.

If you're going to sacrifice speed, you need to get something in return. In SSBM, speed was KING. The top tier is populated by Marth, Shiek and Fox, FFS!

Something has to change if heavyweights are to have a chance of being worthwhile.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 23, 2006, 06:16:37 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I think Princess Peach also needs something more.  Perhaps overhaul her so that she reflects more Super Princess Peach with emtion based special moves.  Her special moves in the Melee were very weak as if they didn't have much to go off of.


Peach rocked in SSB:M, and was easily one of the more top tier characters in the game simply for her trunip move and her recovery ability, while her mid-air smashs and running A attack were excellent. If they wanted to add "Super Princess Peach" emotion type stuff, that would likely fit in well with her new "finisher" move (wish there was a name for this).

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Bowser (my favorite character) can be used to strike terror if you know how to use him properly but he BADLY needs to be revamped. All of Kirby's moves should have their power multiplied by 1.75.


Fully agree, you never see Bowser or Kirby in the torunaments, and they need some upping in the power department badly. Kirby used to be too powerful back in the 64 version, but they greatly reduced his defense, decreased his attack power, and changed around some of his good regular attacks.

Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
I think the characters that were the least popular in Melee are the ones that will get the axe...

I think those might be Mr. Game and Watch, Mewtwo, The Ice climbers, a great deal of the clones and maybe Jigglypuff...


Game and Watch might get the axe simply for his design, but people do like him, the Ice Climbers and Jigglypuff, so I wouldn't jump to such conclusions as you do see them used in torunaments rarely. Removing Mewtwo is a horrible idea, though. He was a lower tier character, which is why no one played him. That's a pretty poor reason to just remove him altogether instead of trying to balance him to be a real contender.

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I'd have no problem with them throwing out half of the characters from SSBM.

IMHO, the secret character lineup sucked ass. Mr. Game and Watch can die in a fire, MewTwo was woefully underpowered, Marth and Roy never even appeared in a game which an English speaker could play and understand...


I do... You will evoke a LOT of outcry if Marth was removed, as he is the most used character in tournaments by far considering he was the top tier character in the game. Removing characters instead of balancing them, because they are underpowered, is a pretty poor idea too.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 23, 2006, 06:18:03 AM
Smash:  

I do agree Doctor Mario, Pichu, Mr. Game and Watch, and Roy were annoying characters.

Marth was cool even though I didn't know the character because he was someone completely new.  Mewtwo had so much potential.  I loved his jumps, his teleports, he just didn't have the power to back it up.  I say keep him in and add some stuff.

How about a telekinesis special move where he can pickup objects when his range and throw them or bring them too him from far away.  It would be a nifty power with some crazy strategy to it.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 23, 2006, 06:20:02 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
I do... You will evoke a LOT of outcry if Marth was removed, as he is the most used character in tournaments by far considering he was the top tier character in the game. Removing characters instead of balancing them, because they are underpowered, is a pretty poor idea too.


My primary gripe with him is that it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for me to KNOW him as a character without learning Japanese or finding a hacked translated FE rom.

I'd have no problem if they included Ike or the hero from the new FE game on the Wii because I can play the game and learn about him. I didn't play Earthbound until I unlocked Ness in SSB.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 23, 2006, 06:21:51 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang Marth was cool even though I didn't know the character because he was someone completely new.  Mewtwo had so much potential.  I loved his jumps, his teleports, he just didn't have the power to back it up.  I say keep him in and add some stuff.


Roy was generally always called "C-stickin' Roy" because a player could sit there and use the C-stick during a 4 player battle and sometimes get enough kills to win.

I don't mind Mewtwo, just that they need to power him up substantially. Again, replace Marth with Ike and nerf him a bit and he'd be fine.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 23, 2006, 06:23:58 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
My primary gripe with him is that it is literally IMPOSSIBLE for me to KNOW him as a character without learning Japanese or finding a hacked translated FE rom.

I'd have no problem if they included Ike or the hero from the new FE game on the Wii because I can play the game and learn about him. I didn't play Earthbound until I unlocked Ness in SSB.


Well then I'm just thankful that the game is made with the Japanese crowd in mind, instead of what the US one is familiar with. The fact that the FE characters made it into the game is part of the reason why we have FE games here now, and if nothing more people in the states are familiar with them at this point after they have already showed up in Melee.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 23, 2006, 06:25:10 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
Well then I'm just thankful that the game is made with the Japanese crowd in mind, instead of what the US one is familiar with. The fact that the FE characters made it into the game is part of the reason why we have FE games here now, and if nothing more people in the states are familiar with them at this point after they have already showed up in Melee.


Except for the fact that neither Marth or Roy appeared in a game which was ever released in the US, yeah.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on May 23, 2006, 06:25:59 AM
I really hope the Ice Climbers stay.  I love Popo and Nana.

Mewto can get the axe, as can Pichu and Dr Mario.  Marth & Roy should be replaced by Ike.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 23, 2006, 06:27:03 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Except for the fact that neither Marth or Roy appeared in a game which was ever released in the US, yeah.


Oh really?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 23, 2006, 06:29:00 AM
A Fire Emblem game, silly. :P

And in SSBM, they both only speak Japanese.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 23, 2006, 06:33:58 AM
Arbok:  Pretty much most of what you want with Princess Peach could still be in the game if they added Emotion based powers to her.

They can keep her same regular moves, but her butt slam special move, and her toad deflect move were rather weak.  Her turnip move definately needs to stay, but it would be fun to make it even more random.  Occassional she pulls up a bomb would be funny.

They could just keep the character similar but give her a power move that changes her mood...and different moods effects how she places.  Angry gives her move power, but is slower.  Happy she is normal.  Sad she is weaker, but has higher defenses, I dunno something.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 23, 2006, 06:35:21 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
A Fire Emblem game, silly. :P

And in SSBM, they both only speak Japanese.


Is that a problem? If you wanna get technical, they appear in the ending of the GBA Fire Emblem game that made it to the US. Also Marth is the most popular character from the series with his numerous Fire Emblem appearances, and his inclusion in the Anime helping this aspect. Roy could get the axe because: A. He was a clone, and B. He was included simply to promote the recent Fire Emblem game at that time.

Again, though, this game is made with the Japanese public in mind. They are polling Japanese gamers, not ones in the States. So stating that a character is likely to be removed simply because America is not familiar with them isn't all that inline with what we know and sounds more like wishful thinking (which I hope will not come to pass as I love Marth and as do many others who have played Melee).

EDIT: Also, forgot to mention since you seem to focus only on the US, you should consider that Anime fans were already familiar with Marth before Melee as ADV brought over the Fire Emblem movie in 1998:

Link  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 23, 2006, 06:38:23 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Arbok:  Pretty much most of what you want with Princess Peach could still be in the game if they added Emotion based powers to her.

They can keep her same regular moves, but her butt slam special move, and her toad deflect move were rather weak.  Her turnip move definately needs to stay, but it would be fun to make it even more random.  Occassional she pulls up a bomb would be funny.

They could just keep the character similar but give her a power move that changes her mood...and different moods effects how she places.  Angry gives her move power, but is slower.  Happy she is normal.  Sad she is weaker, but has higher defenses, I dunno something.


Umm... she does occassionally pull up a Bomb. Anyway, yeah I could see how replacing her Toad move with a emotion thing could be kind of cool, giving her random properties depending on what she gets... although that Toad move, even though weak, was brilliant in design. Also, please consider that her "hip move" was excellent for recovery as well (I suggest watching some tournament streams to see how to abuse her). She was overall fairly top tier after all.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 23, 2006, 06:49:50 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok Is that a problem? If you wanna get technical, they appear in the ending of the GBA Fire Emblem game that made it to the US. Also Marth is the most popular character from the series with his numerous Fire Emblem appearances, and his inclusion in the Anime helping this aspect. Roy could get the axe because: A. He was a clone, and B. He was included simply to promote the recent Fire Emblem game at that time.


I own the Fire Emblem anime because it was the only way I could hope to understand Marth as a character and it only had a pilot episode in the states and was never continued.

Also, some of the characters in the anime were absolutely BAD ASS and would have made for far more compelling characters than Marth.

Quote

Again, though, this game is made with the Japanese public in mind. They are polling Japanese gamers, not ones in the States. So stating that a character is likely to be removed simply because American is not familiar with them isn't all that inline with what we know and sounds more like wishful thinking (which I hope will not come to pass as I love Marth and as do many others who have played Melee).


And it's that kind of thinking which caused Halo to outsell SSBM.

I don't want Marth REMOVED from the game: I want him nerfed to a reasonable level and for FE to be represented by a character who can be understood by both Japan and beyond.

Also, since FE is an ongoing franchise, I wouldn't be surprised if Marth WAS replaced by a current character, sort of sampling the current franchises to see who represents them.

In fact, I'm guessing we can expect to see THIS guy: the hero of FE Wii.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 23, 2006, 06:55:18 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
And it's that kind of thinking which caused Halo to outsell SSBM.


So Marth and Roy are now the nefarious pair behind the Xbox beating out the Gamecube in the states...?

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I don't want Marth REMOVED from the game: I want him nerfed to a reasonable level and for FE to be represented by a character who can be understood by both Japan and beyond.


He is going to be nerfed, he is the most unbalanced character at the moment and I never stated that I wanted to leave him as top tier, just that he shouldn't be removed.

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Also, since FE is an ongoing franchise, I wouldn't be surprised if Marth WAS replaced by a current character, sort of sampling the current franchises to see who represents them.

In fact, I'm guessing we can expect to see THIS guy: the hero of FE Wii.


Again, I would expect Roy to be removed, not Marth. Roy was the flavor of the month as stated, Marth was the stable of the series in Japan much in the same way that Cloud is for Final Fantasy even though he doesn't star in the current story lines in the games outside of more stuff related to VII.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 23, 2006, 07:00:50 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
So Marth and Roy are now the nefarious pair behind the Xbox beating out the Gamecube in the states...?


No, it's Nintendo's inability to think beyond the island which has put them in 3rd in the US and beyond. Marth and Roy are just an example of that logic at work.

Quote

Again, I would expect Roy to be removed, not Marth. Roy was the flavor of the month as stated, Marth was the stable of the series in Japan much in the same way that Cloud is for Final Fantasy even though he doesn't star in the current story lines in the games outside of more stuff related to VII.


That's fine, but out of all the franchises in SSBM, FE was the only one which received regular sequels which brought a completely new cast of characters to the table.

Roy can get the axe for sure, but I wouldn't be shocked to find out that both Marth AND Roy were replaced by current FE characters, possibly this young lady, to boot.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 23, 2006, 07:03:56 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I own the Fire Emblem anime because it was the only way I could hope to understand Marth as a character and it only had a pilot episode in the states and was never continued.

I don't get why you need to understand Marth as a character to use him to bash Pikachu with a baseball bat.

Roy's my boy, so I don't want him to be removed.  I don't use Marth, but a friend of mine really likes him.  If the c-stick is the source of the complaints about these characters, the solution is to remove c-stick smashes.  I don't even like that feature, and with online play, the preferred method of dealing with someone who abuses it won't work anymore.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on May 23, 2006, 07:10:18 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: PartyBear
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I own the Fire Emblem anime because it was the only way I could hope to understand Marth as a character and it only had a pilot episode in the states and was never continued.

I don't get why you need to understand Marth as a character to use him to bash Pikachu with a baseball bat.

Roy's my boy, so I don't want him to be removed.  I don't use Marth, but a friend of mine really likes him.  If the c-stick is the source of the complaints about these characters, the solution is to remove c-stick smashes.  I don't even like that feature, and with online play, the preferred method of dealing with someone who abuses it won't work anymore.



OK, let me explain S_B's logic to you...

One of the main factors behind the success of SSB is the nostalgia that the characters emit greatly. Mario represents an entire Nintendo legacy. Link represents the massive and magical adventures fans have had with Nintendo throughout the years. Pikachu represents a fun worldwide phenomenon and Kirby represents everything that makes Nintendo games great.

Fans have a lot of sentimental value towards the characters in SSB, and that happened because the games were released and fully marketed in the US. The same cannot be said with Marth and Roy because no FE game made it to the states.

How can you love and understand a character that hasn't even appeared in the US? How can you understand what makes them extremely cool character?

True, they do have mini bios in their trophies, but that is not enough to fully coprehend why he is what he is.

You have a point that in this game you really don't need to "know" the character in order to use him, but it certainly adds A LOT to the experience once you know who he is...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 23, 2006, 07:31:05 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
One of the main factors behind the success of SSB is the nostalgia that the characters emit greatly. Mario represents an entire Nintendo legacy. Link represents the massive and magical adventures fans have had with Nintendo throughout the years. Pikachu represents a fun worldwide phenomenon and Kirby represents everything that makes Nintendo games great.

The Fire Emblem series is one of Nintendo's oldest, and unlike some of the ones represented in Melee, it's never been left to rot for an extended period.  Ice Climber was one game, but if I suggest dropping Popo and Nana from the next Smash Bros. I'll get shot down (again).

Quote

Fans have a lot of sentimental value towards the characters in SSB, and that happened because the games were released and fully marketed in the US. The same cannot be said with Marth and Roy because no FE game made it to the states.

So they shouldn't be there for the people who do know them?  Would you prefer it if the FE characters were removed from all the non-Japanese versions of the game?  We could get a representative of some other one-time NES release that no one cares about anymore for the U.S. version!  How about Professors Hector and Vector?

Quote

How can you love and understand a character that hasn't even appeared in the US? How can you understand what makes them extremely cool character?

True, they do have mini bios in their trophies, but that is not enough to fully coprehend why he is what he is.

Every other character in the game besides the FE ones can be summed up in the space of a trophy description.  These are the only characters even remotely complex enough for this criticism to apply to, which makes it seem like a double standard.

Edit: spelling.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 23, 2006, 09:17:38 AM
Pap basically hit the nail on the head. When I first played SSB, I played as Link because I had just finished OoT and he was the character I loved the most of any of them. The same went for Samus and all of the Metroid players.

In the case of FE, no one in the US would know who Marth or Roy was without some research.

Quote

Originally posted by: PartyBear
Every other character in the game besides the FE ones can be summed up in the space of a trophy description.  These are the only characters even remotely complex enough for this criticism to apply to, which makes it seem like a double standard.


Sorry, Bear, but I'm going to have to stop you there.

We here at PGC alone have gone on for pages and pages of discussion about characters like Link or Samus. There's no way in hell the little trophy blurbs do justice for them.

And you kind of argue in favor of Pap's point: the blurbs DON'T do their characters justice and therefore it is indeed imperative that players learn about them outside of SSBM, but in the case of Marth and Roy, they cannot.

I don't care about them as characters. I've never played their games so I cannot relate to their struggles nor can I understand their hardships. The reason why I loved playing as Link or Bowser was because I like their angles and can understand their depth. The same cannot and never will be said with M & R unless they release a translated FE compilation disc to the US (which would rule).

Also, the anime was pretty crap. The supporting cast was so much deeper and downright cooler than Marth that he came across as a wet noodle.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on May 23, 2006, 09:25:19 AM
Shut up.  Shut up shut up shut up.  Shut up.

Japan likes Marth.  Japan likes Roy.

Nintendo gives them Marth & Roy.

NOA has two options:  keep them in there or remove them.  I think they made the right choice.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 23, 2006, 10:02:13 AM
Not saying they made the wrong choice. I AM saying that, now that we have a plethora of FE characters known to both the english-speaking territories and beyond, don't be surprised if M & R DID get the axe in favor of two of those.

Given the pictures of the castle in the SSBB trailer and the fact that no one can get an exact match on the flags and any current FE game, I'd say that the villain from the Wii FE game will be in there (red flags tend to indicate villains, as well as the dragon on the flag). Unless they want 3-4 FE characters, Marth and Roy will likely be replaced by the hero from FE Wii and the villain.

People have theories about THIS guy already...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on May 23, 2006, 10:15:06 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Sorry, Bear, but I'm going to have to stop you there.

Strictly speaking, that was the end of my post, so you didn't have to.  

Quote

We here at PGC alone have gone on for pages and pages of discussion about characters like Link or Samus. There's no way in hell the little trophy blurbs do justice for them.


Right there I think you're confusing "do justice" and "sum up."  Honestly, though, I don't know Fire Emblem well enough to know how much is left out of the blurb.  It could be just as close as any of the others.

Quote

And you kind of argue in favor of Pap's point: the blurbs DON'T do their characters justice and therefore it is indeed imperative that players learn about them outside of SSBM, but in the case of Marth and Roy, they cannot.

That wasn't arguing in favor of the point.  That was arguing that the point itself is unfair and therefore irrelevant.  It does not matter that you, personally, don't know anything about Marth.  Millions of people do.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 23, 2006, 10:24:13 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
And you kind of argue in favor of Pap's point: the blurbs DON'T do their characters justice and therefore it is indeed imperative that players learn about them outside of SSBM, but in the case of Marth and Roy, they cannot.

I don't care about them as characters. I've never played their games so I cannot relate to their struggles nor can I understand their hardships. The reason why I loved playing as Link or Bowser was because I like their angles and can understand their depth. The same cannot and never will be said with M & R unless they release a translated FE compilation disc to the US (which would rule).


Unlike the deep and rich histories behind Game & Watch, Ice Climbers, and Pit.  Characters whom everyone is instantly familiar with, and who have become as rooted in video game culture as Mario, Pacman, and Megaman... am I right?

Your whole argument seems to be that SSB is kind of an exclusive club, where only the most well known characters in all territories can make the cut. An argument which is more or less flawed with the starring inclusion of Pit in this game, which hardly anyone beyond die hard Nintendo fans know about. Also, in the case of Game and Watch... how much can a player learn about him today that isn't done through a internet search or through reading the trophy bios? I think you underestimate that the series is still about Nintendo's history, and characters like Marth, although not well known in the US outside of the Anime, embody the Fire Emblem series in Japan and just because he isn't in the current run of the stories does not mean that he will be axed out in favor of upcoming Wii game characters.

Of course it's all moot talk at this point, as Sakurai and his team are likely still figuring out the roster, although the fact that they are reaching out to fans in Japan makes this still seem clear that they are very much focusing the end product on their tastes as opposed to a Western audience.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Athrun Zala on May 23, 2006, 11:34:46 AM
Roy=Samus>Link>>>>>>...n....>>>everyone else

I like Roy too much in SSBM, and despite similar moveset, he plays diferently than Marth....I hope he doesn't get the axe T_T (and I find the C-Stick thing pretty uncomfortable, so I don't use it)

and I'd rather have new movesets for the clones instead of being axed.......


on a side note, kicking friend's butts with either Mr G&W or Jigglypuff is the best IMO
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nick DiMola on May 23, 2006, 12:42:31 PM
I would be very angry if any players were axed from SSBB. I personally use Ganondorf and I could easily see him getting the axe due to the fact that he is a clone. I coudn't agree more with Athrun Zala, the real solution is a new move set, something to differentiate the clones. Plus the larger the roster the better! I love booting up Marvel vs. Capcom 2 and having a huge number of fighters to chose from each with their own unique moves.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 23, 2006, 01:47:08 PM
Take note of one thing: Link in SSBB is the NEW Link from TP, not the former Link, not WW Link (though he might make an appearance, who knows). Samus is now "Zero Suit Samus". Wario is dressed as he is from Wario Ware, not from his many, MANY former games.

I have no PROBLEM with Marth and Roy: I didn't break the disc over my knee after unlocking them or something stupid like that.

I DO think that the purpose of SSB is nostalgia and it's hard to be nostalgic about characters I've never known, but that's not even the point now.

The point is, if they want to represent the FE franchise, they have NEW characters who have games which they could use their presence in SSBB to help sell the game, mainly FE Wii.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 23, 2006, 02:31:02 PM
Quote

"We'd work to make the game independently, but we might be told to simply focus on making the game Wi-Fi compatible, and may be instructed not to lay a hand on any of the 26 characters in the current game, Super Smash Bros. Melee."


That was what Satoru Iwata told Masahiro Sakurai about their plans for Super Smash Bros. if Sakurai wasn't going to be involved.

You can read that one of two ways, Iwata wants to keep the same character base, or Sakurai pointed this quote out as to say "we will add new ones, but also mess with old ones."
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on May 23, 2006, 02:59:06 PM
I want this to take all the time it needs; sometime around Christmas in 2007 would be fine, especially considering how many other good games are available.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 23, 2006, 03:25:11 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Take note of one thing: Link in SSBB is the NEW Link from TP, not the former Link, not WW Link (though he might make an appearance, who knows). Samus is now "Zero Suit Samus". Wario is dressed as he is from Wario Ware, not from his many, MANY former games.


He's still Link though. There is a difference between changing a character's appearance to match what they looked like last in a video game, versus removing characters altogether simply because their games are no longer "current."

Also, where did you get the impression that Samus is getting taken out for "Zero Suit Samus"? The whole "newcomer" thing seems to point at this being an all new character, not something that will replace the suited Samus, which would be a horrible idea.

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I DO think that the purpose of SSB is nostalgia and it's hard to be nostalgic about characters I've never known, but that's not even the point now.

The point is, if they want to represent the FE franchise, they have NEW characters who have games which they could use their presence in SSBB to help sell the game, mainly FE Wii.


Again, that was the purpose of Roy being in Melee... but not Marth's, as his storyline was not for the most recent game when Melee was released.

If the true purpose of SSB is nostalgia, also figure that Marth being in several games vs. characters like the Ice Climbers and Pit who have been in one game (two, I suppose, if you count the GB version of Kid Icarus) means that more people in Japan have also been exposed to this character even if they currently aren't featured in the series.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hocotate on May 23, 2006, 08:39:54 PM
One character I would love to see would be Baby Bowser from Mario Sunshine. His down B move could transform him into the "evil" mario with the paintbrush. This has probably already been mentioned by someone else, but I've always thought he would be a good character for SSB from the moment I saw him in Sunshine.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on May 23, 2006, 08:46:32 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

IMHO, the secret character lineup sucked ass. Mr. Game and Watch can die in a fire, MewTwo was woefully underpowered, Marth and Roy never even appeared in a game which an English speaker could play and understand, Pichu is a weaker, sh*ttier version of Pikachu, and DOCTOR Mario?! Bleh...

Toss 'em all out, I say.

I love Game and Watch!

And as for them using Japanese-only characters, if it helps drum up interest for the games in NA, I'm all for it.

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
People have theories about THIS guy already...

Those look like different flags to me...
 
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 23, 2006, 09:34:57 PM
Yeah, those flags do look pretty different.  I get the feeling the castle might actually be Akaneia, which would be Marth's kingdom.

http://ssbm.detstar.com/debug/versus/dairantou.html

If you access the debug menu and go to the stages part you can see there is a stage called Akaneia, but if you try to access it the game will freeze because it's not there.  Meaning Marth was suppost to have his own stage but it most have been removed because of time constraints.

Maybe Sakurai remembered this and made sure this was one of the first stages that would be made.  Which might explain why it's one of the stages shown in these early images.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 23, 2006, 10:23:44 PM
They shouldn't axe anyone. At all. Anybody new from FE would play completely different from Marth and Roy and piss all the people who used to play them (including me) off a whole lot. Axeing anyone will result in a global uproar, as will changing movesets.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on May 24, 2006, 03:46:38 AM
Hmm, if they have to remove characters, I wouldn't mind seeing Dr. Mario, Pichu and Young Link go.  I'd like to see the rest stay, but maybe update some of the moves for the clones so they play a bit differently.

Dr. Mario could still be included as a straight-up costume change for Mario.  Young Link....I could see replacing him with a less cloney cel-shaded Link, but overall I don't care if he goes, in fact I find his inclusion frustrating since he's the same guy as Link.  As you can imagine, having Samus and Zero-Suit Samus in one game freaks me out too.  Anal-retentive, much?

I don't think anyone has to worry about Ganondorf getting the axe, he's too high-profile not to make it in the game.  I could sadly see Ness or the Ice Climbers going, what with the release of Mother 3 and the fact that Ice Climbers was never a high profile series.  But they're neat characters so I really hope they stay.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 24, 2006, 04:39:34 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
He's still Link though. There is a difference between changing a character's appearance to match what they looked like last in a video game, versus removing characters altogether simply because their games are no longer "current."


But is that the case in the eyes of the new developer?

I mention Fire Emblem because it's the only series which has replaceable characters. Roy was supposed to be the hero of the first FE game which made it stateside, which tells me that they understand the advertising benefits of placing characters in the game who have current games out.

Are there people who are more likely to try Twilight Princess, Zero Mission, Wario Ware, Kirby Wii, etc. because the characters are in the game? Of course they are.

Knowing that Wii will likely have a FE game within the first six months, I'd be stunned if there wasn't at LEAST 1 FE character from FE Wii in SSBB. They likely will axe Roy because he was supposed to represent the "current", but I wouldn't be shocked if they both got the axe in favor of two new FE characters (possibly a hero and a villain).

It's silly to argue about it as it's not like WE can change the outcome. I'm just saying that if this new dev has suggested that not all characters will return, then everything is up in the air.

Also, I know the flag doesn't match, but I highly doubt it's Marth's kingdom. The castle flies red flags with a black dragon. Red and Black are flag colors typically used for villains in FE and dragons are used by villains as flying mounts.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 24, 2006, 05:11:58 AM
"But is that the case in the eyes of the new developer?"

Sakurai would be the one to okay any change, and I don't see him getting rid of characters like Ice Climbers...

As for the Fire Emblem characters, I see Marth staying and Roy getting the bump...I'd be slightly disappointed considering Roy is my primary character, but you know what?  I'll just find a new favorite, plain and simple...There is probably no one here that didn't end up changing characters between SSB and Melee, so why is this a big deal?...There won't be "a global uproar" due to a change in character lineup...It hasn't happened for any other fighting game and it won't happen for Brawl...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 24, 2006, 05:20:13 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion There is probably no one here that didn't end up changing characters between SSB and Melee, so why is this a big deal?


I went from Kirby/Link to Bowser.

No one will preach SSB gospel like I will, but the reality is, no matter how much outcry we may have for how we want SSB games made and handled, speculating means jack squat and saying, "I'll be furious!" means even less.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 24, 2006, 05:34:58 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I mention Fire Emblem because it's the only series which has replaceable characters. Roy was supposed to be the hero of the first FE game which made it stateside, which tells me that they understand the advertising benefits of placing characters in the game who have current games out.


...gah? No, no, no. You keep taking this to a US level as if the Smash Bros roster revolves around NOA or something. It doesn't. Roy's Fire Emblem was the current one in Japan, his inclusion was because of that. It was not because they planned to bring it to the US as the "first one", that was not their intent at all and they didn't even consider porting over Fire Emblem games in English territoires until AFTER SSB:M was here. As said before, NOA had the option of keeping them, or removing them (would that have been preferable?) and they chose the former and many are happy they did.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ShyGuy on May 24, 2006, 06:11:57 AM
Hey, is SSBB going to be bundled with the shell? Makes sense to me.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 24, 2006, 06:29:16 AM
Shyguy:  If a classic controller is needed to play the game, then it will be bundled.  Though really, it should be bundled with two classic controllers if you want to get the basic Smash experience.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 24, 2006, 06:47:23 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok ...gah? No, no, no. You keep taking this to a US level as if the Smash Bros roster revolves around NOA or something. It doesn't. Roy's Fire Emblem was the current one in Japan, his inclusion was because of that. It was not because they planned to bring it to the US as the "first one", that was not their intent at all and they didn't even consider porting over Fire Emblem games in English territoires until AFTER SSB:M was here. As said before, NOA had the option of keeping them, or removing them (would that have been preferable?) and they chose the former and many are happy they did.


This changes the fact that Marth and Roy might get the axe in SSBB...how?

I'm saying that, since FE is the only series receiving regular updates which replace the entire cast, it would be perfectly logical for the "current" FE characters to be represented in SSBB.

For this reason, Ness might be replaced with the new hero of Mother 3 (because it isn't Ness).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 24, 2006, 06:49:53 AM
I also used Kirby/Link, before changing to Marth (and sometimes Sheik).

And SSB is not just nostalgia.  That's certainly a factor, and it plays heavily into it, the history of Nintendo and the cumulative love for all their games.
But the game is also a game in and of itself, that has awesome gameplay and stands above even some of the franchises it represents, in my opinion.  I play as Marth, and five years later I can still be nostalgic about using him, though I've never played the game he's in.  I really like Marth, despite not having played his game.
It can work either way.  And remember, Japan is also a target audience, and they have played the game.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BlkPaladin on May 24, 2006, 08:25:39 AM
You know I was thinking that because the developer of the new title is now a third party developer it might be easier to get the other characters in the title now, than it would of been when Melee came out.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on May 24, 2006, 10:59:49 AM
Quote

Hey, is SSBB going to be bundled with the shell? Makes sense to me.
I would rather they bundle it with the console then. That way, everyone has the shell, even the ones that don't buy Smash Bros. The userbase wouldn't be split, and developers could use it if they wanted to, knowing that everyone has it.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 24, 2006, 01:00:25 PM
This game is probably going to have the best soundtrack ever, Zelda overworld with orchestra and choral arrangements? hopefully a MM theme also? I dont know if Metroid themes like Brinstar or Maridia fit with a chorus, but also I doubted that it could sound so good with orchestra alone, I really cant wait to hear it.



Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Robageejammin on May 24, 2006, 01:38:51 PM
yea seriously. I can't stop thinking what music they'll have for the halberd stage. I'm hoping for some awesome kirby superstar music that blows away everything i know about orchestra/chorus. Some retro stuff would be great, i remember being in complete awe the first time i heard the SNES starfox music in melee.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Louieturkey on May 24, 2006, 02:08:48 PM
I'm definitely hoping for the MP opening music in this thing.  I sometimes just let the intro play over and over to listen to the music.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 24, 2006, 02:37:50 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
This changes the fact that Marth and Roy might get the axe in SSBB...how?


I wasn't even talking about that in my last post. I was simply pointing out that Roy was NOT placed in SSB:M because he was going to be in the first Fire Emblem game to hit US shores, as it was a false statement and part of the reason the US even got FE games was on account of Melee.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MattVDB on May 24, 2006, 02:40:55 PM
The Smash Bros Dojo now has shots up of two more characters.  Zero Suit Samus and Wario.  Samus looks so cool, while Wario just plain looks fun.  If this trend continues, next week is our man Snake.

Link

Discuss
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Athrun Zala on May 24, 2006, 02:47:38 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Louieturkey
I'm definitely hoping for the MP opening music in this thing.  I sometimes just let the intro play over and over to listen to the music.
ooohhhhh......I love that one, I would love that one as BGM ona Tallon IV based level ^^.....

and checking the character bios on SSBD, it says that on certain condition Samus losses the suit......I wonder if it'll be like Zelda/Sheik......or maybe after sustained damage?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 24, 2006, 02:48:43 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: MattVDB
The Smash Bros Dojo now has shots up of two more characters.  Zero Suit Samus and Wario.  Samus looks so cool, while Wario just plain looks fun.  If this trend continues, next week is our man Snake.

Link

Discuss


"This isn't a pure character addition. Rather, under certain conditions, Samus will "remove" her Power Suit. Whoa! That's a woman under there!

Naturally, Zero Suit Samus loses power and stamina, so she should fight using the speed she gains instead.
Also, her gun transforms and can be used as a whip. Of the two, one might consider the whip to be her main weapon.

And don't worry—you'll still be able to play as standard Samus, too."

So it sounds like Samus now takes on a Shiek style of play, as opposed to Zero Suit being a whole new character. This also seems to hint more toward Dr. Mario possibly not making it, if these are in fact the same character.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MattVDB on May 24, 2006, 02:56:48 PM
Sustained damage= Samus turns into Zero Suit Samus kinda bugs me.  I love Samus because I can play with her, frequently passing the 300 percent mark before I die.  If after 150 she changed into ZSS that would be annoying.  Now, if she used her super to transform, I'd be ok with that, depending on how much the supers really change the battle.  If one super changes the course of the round, I wouldn't like that.  But, if it say, equaled the hammer in changing the battle, that'd be fine.  Personally, I avoid the hammer (have since the original).  I see how it has potential, but I prefer to get kills "fairly" rather then use a hammer.  Besides, killing a player with a hammer is just too much fun to pass up.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hostile Creation on May 24, 2006, 03:30:19 PM
I'm the same way, MattVDB.  I'm unexcited about the supers; I mean, they look fun, but not something my friends and I will have in battle often.
I suspect suit changing is optional, or related to the super move (based on the trailer, it seems that way).

Anyway, I'm totally into the hot new Zero Suit pics.  WORK THAT ASS SAMUS
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 24, 2006, 03:51:56 PM
I love the super moves, they look so fun, I really dont mind if they are instant killers.

And I still dislike very much zero suit samus, the whip thing is kind of tacky.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 24, 2006, 03:55:31 PM
I'm glad what I was hoping for rings true with Samus...We didn't really need two separate characters...

It also adds a whole new strategetic angle to the character...It's perfect!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 24, 2006, 03:58:45 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
I'm glad what I was hoping for rings true with Samus...We didn't really need two separate characters...


I'm actually happy about that too, and hope that Dr. Mario, as a seperate character, gets the axe as well so it goes back to each character being a unique person.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 24, 2006, 04:07:47 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Anyway, I'm totally into the hot new Zero Suit pics.  WORK THAT ASS SAMUS


If you found those pics HOT!!!, wait till you see this shot of ZERO suit Samus.

I think she was trying out for an appearance in DOAX Beach Volleyball 2

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hocotate on May 24, 2006, 04:49:05 PM
I think Samus will turn into ZS-Samus after doing her super. I wouldn't mind if she automatically transformed after hitting 150% or something, but I'd prefer to have a choice if I wanted to transform or not.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on May 24, 2006, 05:23:11 PM
Conversation with my younger bro:

Kairon:  What a beauty...
Kairon:  Beauty Shot
TheScarletGem:  volleyball plz
Kairon:  Her "gunsaber" is refered to by the game's director as a, and I quote, "whip"
Kairon:  happy now?
TheScarletGem:  Who says Nintendo doesn't make mature games?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 24, 2006, 05:37:59 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok I wasn't even talking about that in my last post. I was simply pointing out that Roy was NOT placed in SSB:M because he was going to be in the first Fire Emblem game to hit US shores, as it was a false statement and part of the reason the US even got FE games was on account of Melee.


I heard rumors that his was supposed to be the first FE game brought to the US but it never made it, but like I said, that has zero bearing on which characters get the axe.

I could see keeping Marth as a nostalgia character (because that's important as well), but I fully expect Roy to be gone.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Robageejammin on May 24, 2006, 06:53:15 PM
I think it would be really interesting to have the game constantly updated online. They could keep adding new characters, maps, items, trophies(?) and could take time to balance everything out. Especially considering Sakurai's obsession with detail and balance, I wouldn't doubt that its possible.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on May 24, 2006, 06:58:35 PM
I really doubt no characters will be added. Mainly because, what will the next game's selling point be if not new characters?

New costumes, levels, trophies, single player challenges, would all be nice.

Though what I really want - not that this is all that related to WiiConnect24 - is worldwide tournements that are open to anybody.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MattVDB on May 24, 2006, 07:08:39 PM
Tournies would be crazy cool.  If they can get the netcode up to spec, that would just be off the hook.

The more I think about it though, the the more I become undecided about Samus having split characters.  I mean, I like the idea of having different fighting styles, but it's not like you can quickly switch back and forth between them anyway.  Samus' suit isn't pansy.  Samus' suit is butch.  Samus' suit shouldn't get blown up each time she fires a power shot.  I mean, I'm really, really stoked about have "Zamus" but not at the cost of my currently much beloved heroine.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on May 24, 2006, 07:09:58 PM
Plus that would mean everyone's version of Smash Bros will be different depending on where and when they have internet connection. Not something I want in Smash Bros, i'd rather they get it right the first time, like SSBM.

Also, I agree with Matt. I think the Samus' should be different characters.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Robageejammin on May 24, 2006, 07:11:55 PM
Yea I think those type of tournaments are a must and I'm sure the whole online system for the game will be much much more in depth than "friend codes".
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MattVDB on May 24, 2006, 08:11:18 PM
Thinking about it more, and I've changed my opinion.  IF, and only if, certain circumstances come to pass.  Every/most characters have move altering power ups like this does to Samus, or getting the Smash Ball again gives Samus her armor back.  Zero Suit Samus would then essentially be here super power.  I could live with that.  I would still prefer having two character slots, but eh, if I had to I'd be fine with this.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 24, 2006, 08:43:34 PM
Don't be surprised if online play is pretty limited in this version of SSBB, I expect Nintendo to go for more money and offer up a SSBB Tournament edition about a year later with full online capabilities and a few extra characters.

Thats not what I want to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it became fact.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on May 24, 2006, 08:58:23 PM
I'm anticipating a Fall '07 release... and I'd certainly hope that they got 4-player brawls worked out by then!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 24, 2006, 09:38:55 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
I'm anticipating a Fall '07 release... and I'd certainly hope that they got 4-player brawls worked out by then!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com


Uh... A YEAR after the Wii launches, when the game was originally supposed to be a launch title? Somehow, I don't think so. April at the absolute latest.

Also, it's official, Samus is the best character in the game. Standard Samus is pretty high tiered, and with her speed, Zero Suit Samus will probably be even higher.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 24, 2006, 09:44:05 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1
Don't be surprised if online play is pretty limited in this version of SSBB, I expect Nintendo to go for more money and offer up a SSBB Tournament edition about a year later with full online capabilities and a few extra characters.

Thats not what I want to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if it became fact.



SSBB is being made by Nintendo, not Capcom.  If the onlines limited they'll fix it up for the Smash Bros game for their next console which will be years later.  Nintendo handles most of it's series very well in how sequels go.  Smash Bros has gotten the Mario Kart treatment where there's only one per system.  

So they'll be no

SSBB Tournament Edition
SSBB Turbo
Super SSBB
Super SSBB Turbo
Hyper Super Mega Ultimate SSBB Amazing Grand Turbo Nobody Cares Anymore Edition  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on May 25, 2006, 06:33:48 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
I'm anticipating a Fall '07 release... and I'd certainly hope that they got 4-player brawls worked out by then!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com


Uh... A YEAR after the Wii launches, when the game was originally supposed to be a launch title? Somehow, I don't think so. April at the absolute latest.


Nintendo said sometime in '07, they did NOT say "early '07" just '07, so I'm going to assume a year after launch. Besides, Mario will hit 6 months after release, so that spots already taken in my mind...

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ShyGuy on May 25, 2006, 06:42:12 AM
SSBB will be pushed to fall 07 so it can be the AAA holiday title. Personally, I hope Animal Crossing Wiild World is '07 too
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 25, 2006, 08:54:20 AM
I think Nintendo waiting on this for November 2007 is the best plan yet.  It gives a full year of work to really perfect the game, and add as much stuff to it as possible.

Besides The launch already has a great lineup of games, and I am pretty positive that Mario Galaxy will be the big March (Spring) release for the Wii.  And the big summer game could be any number of games.  By then Project H.A.M.M.E.R or Day of Destruction (whatever it is called) could be ready for release.  

EA probably will have an exclusive version of SSX for the system as well sometime by Summer.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 25, 2006, 08:58:55 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I think Nintendo waiting on this for November 2007 is the best plan yet.  It gives a full year of work to really perfect the game, and add as much stuff to it as possible.


I fully agree. I want this game more than anything, I'd buy a Wii if this was the only game on it... but this will likely be the only SSB we get this generation, and considering that Melee was the game I played the most, even today, on my Cube I want them to nail this to perfection; I want this to be the best game it can be, as I know, especially with online, I will be playing it way more than anything else.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 25, 2006, 09:12:18 AM
Arbok:  I think even Nintendo fully understands the importance of this game.

Look at the expenses they have already developed for the game.  They are huge.  But they were also wise in giving precious source code for Melee to the development team to help cut programing time.  

I believe this game could be right go WITHOUT online play by Summer...if everything goes well.  Which means, I believe they will have a couple of months to really nail down online multiplayer.  

What I expect to happen is they will get 4 player Wifi battles, but you will have limited items to use during the match.  I would guess the Pokemon items would be dropped, and a few of the other larger explosive items.  I also expect that online levels will be limited to more stationary levels and won't be the vastly interactive moving levels.  Which is fine with me actually.  



Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on May 25, 2006, 10:09:03 AM
I want it to launch whenever it's ready, though I hope that will be sooner rather than later.  I really feel Nintendo ought to flood the system with games in the first few months next year.  My preference would be one first-party game per month.  This system needs to be irresistable.

Anyhoo, I'm glad to see Zero Suit Samus is part of the ordinary Samus character, but I agree that the player should have some control over when she changes.  This makes me wonder, will Zelda still turn into Sheik?  Presumably Sheik isn't in Twilight Princess...

I'd like to see alternative costumes for characters.  I think I mentioned that with Dr. Mario, but I was thinking about some more possibilities yesterday and I got pretty excited about it.  How about NES Open Tournament Golf outfits for Mario and Luigi?  Better yet, for Peach?  Miniskirt Get!  Different versions of Samus' armour.  Link wearing tunics based on Ocarina and The Adventures of Link.  Mario in his Sunshine shirt and sunglasses.  Ganondorf wearing the flowing robes from Wind Waker.  It's not a really huge idea or anything, I just think it would be a fun addition, similar to what some other fighting games offer.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on May 25, 2006, 11:21:48 AM
Yeah - skins.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 25, 2006, 09:18:05 PM
According to a recent update to the Japanese Smash Bros website, Sakurai says that for third party charactors, expect only 1-2 more.  He also said the third party charactors MUST have appeared on a Nintendo system.

So that means we shouldn't worry about them getting out of hand with third party charactors.

If there's going to be only two more third party charactor, Sonic and Megaman seem to be the most obvious to me.  Both charactors have appeared on Nintendo consoles and both charactors have a long history and are considered icons.  Plus it's been my dream to have a game with Mario, Sonic and Megaman together in it.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 26, 2006, 02:12:14 AM
Luigi Dude:  If all they have is Sonic and MegaMan I would be completely happen.  Those are the only two 3rd party characters I feel NEED to be in Smash Brothers.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on May 26, 2006, 04:38:40 AM
the question is....which route will they take with Mega Man?? i'd love to see him in Brawl but i would be much happier if it was Mega Man X. sadly though i see plain ol' Mega Man making it.

either way, imagine watching Mega Man grab snake, charge up his buster and blast them in a direction as his throw....
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 26, 2006, 04:59:12 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
According to a recent update to the Japanese Smash Bros website, Sakurai says that for third party charactors, expect only 1-2 more.  He also said the third party charactors MUST have appeared on a Nintendo system.

So that means we shouldn't worry about them getting out of hand with third party charactors.


I was kind of hoping for three more:

Sonic, Megaman and Bomberman... but I'm just glad that they won't be going overboard with it.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 26, 2006, 05:14:38 AM
EasyCure:  There is only one Mega Man.  Mega Man X is the worst example of trying to make a character cool.  It was completely unneccessary.

Although the Mega Man X games a fun and enjoyable, I don't consider them to be true Mega Man games because of the changes they made to the universe.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 26, 2006, 05:17:02 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
EasyCure:  There is only one Mega Man.  Mega Man X is the worst example of trying to make a character cool.  It was completely unneccessary.

Although the Mega Man X games a fun and enjoyable, I don't consider them to be true Mega Man games because of the changes they made to the universe.


I actually thought X was a great idea, setting it in the future after Light was long dead. It did not feel like a shoehorned concept unlike stuff like Shadow... also, robot animals > robot men.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 26, 2006, 06:04:14 AM
Arbok:  I would have been fine with the concept if they didn't quit making the original games.

Or if they kept the original Mega Man design and had the animal robots.  

I used to think the animal robots were cooler, until I began to look at the original designs and I loved Cut Man, Guts Man and stuff.

The New PSP Mega Man game really does a great job capturing the Mega Man feel and universe.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on May 26, 2006, 06:28:11 AM
even with the big heads??

i love both series (mega man and the X series....that other stuff can go to hell). mega man 2 was actually the first game i ever beat at the age of four. the only problem i have is that they never made a game that bridged the two stories together. to this day there are people out there with theories defending them as different mega mans in completely different universes (some how they forget that dr. light gives X his power ups...) and others that try to tie the two together some how with some creative stories.

i thought 7 and 8 were both craptacular mega man games after i played them. i was so dissapointed because i thought they would both be something new and fresh on their new consoles, but they weren't. thats when i decided i liked the X series better, its story was intruiging. as a fan though i hate the fact that there is no official story to link the two series together, just a few vague hints and such. then to see mega man "shoe horned" into games like Legends and Battle Network was a complete slap in the face. to make those efforts, and their sequels, over giving the die hard mega man fans a TRUE mega man game is an insult.

by the way, with X they werent trying to make him cool. mega man was always cool
i know what you're trying to say though. i dont think they tried to change his appearance to make him seem cooler in the eyes or older gamers or anything like that, the way they tried to make Shadow the COOL XTREME version of sonic or anything. i always felt Xs design was fitting for the game world he was in. it wasnt the same world as Mega Man anymore. it wasnt a time when robots of his calibur were new and designed to do jobs humans couldn't do. the X series was about later in the future after robots evolved and co-existed with humans as a race and going berserk due to a virus not some evil scientist trying to rule the world. the universe created was meant to be a darker one so a slight change in appearance to mega man was justified by that. dont blame him cuz he happened to look more bad as then the original mega man did. after all mega man was never built to be a fighting robot, it was a choice he made. if we are to believe x is an upgraded Rock, then a sleeker build would be justified if it were more battle ready.....but now im just showing my mega man geek colors so i'll stop right there.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on May 26, 2006, 06:42:27 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Luigi Dude:  If all they have is Sonic and MegaMan I would be completely happen.  Those are the only two 3rd party characters I feel NEED to be in Smash Brothers.

They should also add Pacman, but not as a playable character. He should be more like an un-manned hammer that will chomp anything in his path for about 10 seconds. Bomberman should also be included in there somehere as a playable character.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on May 26, 2006, 07:29:26 AM
I felt the same way as Spak-Spang when Mega Man X was introduced.  I'm more friendly to the character now, but at the time I was like, "What did you do to Mega Man, you beeotches?"  Only I didn't say it like a cliche forum response from 2005.

I want to see Simon Belmont, Mega Man in either form, and Sonic...who technically appeared on a Nintendo system, but he's the one I'd be most willing to drop.

P.S. Continuing on my stupid costume rants, Mega Man could be offered in both X and classic flavours via a costume.   Their moves are pretty similar anyway.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 26, 2006, 07:58:47 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey


P.S. Continuing on my stupid costume rants, Mega Man could be offered in both X and classic flavours via a costume.   Their moves are pretty similar anyway.


I agree, but how about his Legends(Dash) and EXE costume as well.  Charactors were given four different color choices for their costumes in Melee.  If they go with different costumes for Brawl then it'd work perfect for Megaman since there's four different Megaman series.  This way anyone could play as the Megaman from either Classic, X, Legends, or EXE so all fans are happy.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 26, 2006, 08:01:34 AM
I just hate making something look cool to look cool.  Look at what they did with the upcoming Xbox Bomberman.  

It looks stupid.

I still feel the same about Mega Man X.  It just appears that my took all the charm out of it and made it look modern.  It's like if they took Astroboy and decided to grow him up because a new market couldn't handle the classic Astroboy character design.

Mega Man 8 I thought was a wonderful game...but I do not understand why they won't allow Mega Man to learn to shoot diagonial.  I know they want to maintain the classic play style, but I believe that would open up so many doors and possiblities for Mega Man in the future.

Mega Man and Sonic are musts for the Smash Brothers Franchise...then perhaps Bomberman would be great.  Simon Belmont could be very cool, but I don't think he has the fanbase following anymore, since new Castlevanias always have a new Belmont character.  

Couchmonkey:  I agree I would most likely drop Sonic too.  The more I think about how Sonic would play in Smash Brothers, the less interested I get in his character.  He just doesn't feel like he would fit, at all.

Finally, EasyCure:  The bigheads work great for Mega Man.  The style of Mega Man has always been very whimsical.  The big heads are a great why to create more personality within each character.  It worked pretty darn good.  I am most jealous of PSP getting that game than anyother game they have.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 26, 2006, 09:08:20 AM
Capcom has been really jerk-ish to Ninty as of late, so they can take Mega Man and shove him up their respective you-know-what...(It doesn't help that I'm an avid Mega Man hater...)  I personally see Sonic for sure, and I like the idea of Bomberman though his moves seem limited...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 26, 2006, 09:17:42 AM
Bill this is one of the few times I am disagreeing with you.

Yeah, Capcom hasn't been hand in hand with Nintendo.

But hating on Mega Man.  His games are repetitive but such a classic character and the original game design is brilliant.  Capcom just stopped evolving the franchise.

I personally think a Mega Man game in the tradition of Metroid would be great.  Metroid is great for a dark, mysterious atmosphere that is often times awe-inspiring.  Castlevania has made a moody gothic Metroid time experience.  Mega Man could be the whimsical light hearted version of the game, and be filled with vivid and brilliant characters.

So, why hate Mega Man?

Though, I am glad we agree that Bomberman would rock, and wind waker Link.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 26, 2006, 09:36:05 AM
(Well to be honest, I'm not a Castlevania fan either...And I like 2D Metroid only in small doses...  I just don't find (and never found) the Mega Man series compelling...)

The one third-party item that absolutely needs to be in the game is the KANGAROOS from Bomberman...Or possibly even make the Kangaroo a "transformation" move of Bomberman's, which could be interesting...  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 26, 2006, 09:43:39 AM
Well I guess that is fair...if you just aren't compelled by the game design...you aren't compelled.

*LOL*  Kangaroos from Bomberman would be wierd...but that reminded me of something similar to that idea they could do.

The Mario 3 Boot would be a fantastic item.  I wish I knew that Japanese site to give suggestions because I would definately throw that in.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on May 26, 2006, 09:49:12 AM
KURIBO'S SHOE!

It's the only thing that was missing from New Super Mario Brothers, and it would be the ultimate SSB item!  On the item note, I also think there should be more enemies that appear during play...Enemies appear in Melee, but they show up way too uncommonly, so it'd be nice if they added enemies as an "item choice" in the Item select menu...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 26, 2006, 09:52:37 AM
Bill:  I like the enemy idea.  And they could make them character specific.  For the most part.

Some levels won't have enemies, but that is ok...just the idea of fighting and smash goombas in the middle of the battle would rock.  Or collecting a red turtle shell from an actual Koopa instead of just opening an item box would be cool.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 26, 2006, 10:56:49 AM
This thread is broken.

No amount of scotch tape will fix it.

Mega Man X was an all-around quality game and concept when it came out.  We all know it's a dead franchise now.  We all saw Sonic died as soon as the 2nd game came out, cuz anything more added simply broke the series.

GO SHADOW AND GUNS AND CARS
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KnowsNothing on May 26, 2006, 10:59:57 AM
SONIC AND KNUCKLES WAS GOOD
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ian Sane on May 26, 2006, 11:03:33 AM
"We all saw Sonic died as soon as the 2nd game came out, cuz anything more added simply broke the series."

You mean Sonic the Hedgehog 2?  I think that game's awesome.  In my mind Sonic died with Sonic 3D Blast.  Sonic 1-3, Sonic & Knuckles and Sonic CD are essential.

With Mega Man I consider the essential titles to be Mega Man 1-3 and Mega Man X.  Everything else is meh.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 26, 2006, 11:08:10 AM
I want them to take as long as it takes to get this game to perfection. Not another rush-job like Melee.

As for 3rd party, Sonic, Megaman, and/or Simon Belmont. With Megaman, Simon and Kid Icarus together, they have the whole Captain N lineup completed (minus the non-VG characters which appeared in the series and the villains).
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on May 26, 2006, 11:09:45 AM
I want Simon Belmont and Sonic as third party characters, Ive never played a megaman game so I dont care for him. There has been more castlevanias than metal gear games in nintendo consoles, simon has to be there. And sonic well its sonic.

But more important, please Nintendo, get Skull Kid and Olimar!!

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ian Sane on May 26, 2006, 11:13:06 AM
"Ive never played a megaman game"

Wha?  Really?  Looks like someone's got some Virtual Console homework to do.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on May 26, 2006, 12:36:53 PM
Question is, WHICH Mega Man are we talking about here? Haven't there been several over the years?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 26, 2006, 01:31:49 PM
Oh hello OPINIONS.

KING HIPPO MUST BE A PLAYABLE CHARACTER.

Eggplant Wizard can be a barrel/box surprise like the goombas and redeads.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on May 26, 2006, 06:59:32 PM
if mega man does end up in this game or another Smash Bros game, i wouldn't mind if they used mega man or mega man x. the only ones i cant stand are the different iterations he's had after those two series.

mega man/ mega man x > legends + EXE + mega man Zero (though this mega man was better than the EXE mega man)

and how come now one has suggest Zero (from mega man X and not mega man zero)!??!?!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 26, 2006, 07:35:01 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: EasyCure
and how come now one has suggest Zero (from mega man X and not mega man zero)!??!?!


Because it was stated 1-2 more third party characters are likely, and although Zero is cool, he isn't really as representive as Megaman and it seems unlikely that they would pursue him.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on May 26, 2006, 07:44:03 PM
Konami loves cross-overs and Konami sees Simon Belmont as representing Castlevania (he did in Wai Wai World and World Fighters, he was a secret character in Harmony of Dissonance, etc). Unless Nintendo told Konami that they get only one character, I'd count on Simon Belmont to be in there. I'm sure Konami would have loved to add the moai they add to EVERY crossover game they make (who can blame them, Moais are freaking cool) but I don't think Nintendo let them do that. Perhaps a Gradius shield, option or powerup as an item?

As for Megaman, I feel Inafune is the critical factor here. I don't know what he thinks of the Wii but he seems to be a Sony fan and I have my doubts that he'd okay Megaman in S²B². Well, they could still ask Konami for the man who destroys worlds barechested (Lance from Contra).

Zero is a secondary character so of course noone's going to suggest him unless Capcom got the choice to add two characters. Megaman is more important. Zero would fit better into Smash Bros because he's a melee character but he's just not important enough. If this was a great culmination of franchises then yes, Zero would deserve a spot but Smash Brothers is Nintendo first and foremost.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on May 26, 2006, 07:44:17 PM
Zero = Shadow
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 27, 2006, 08:25:07 AM
If Mega Man is in the game.  I would do something like Mega Man from Mega Man 3.  

One special could be the leaf shield and attack.

One Special could be a gust of wind, that when he is in that air propels him upwards.

One Special could be he blaster and charge shot.

Last Special move could be the gemini lasers and they can bonus off of walls and such.

I think this would make Mega Man be a fun addition to the game.

Also not duck normal attack could be his traditional slide move.

And on his Mega Man level you could have it based on something like Snake Man's level and have that Snake Robot occassionally attack...and those disappearing/reappearing floating blocks be used as platforms throughout the level (albet they last longer on screen.)

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on May 27, 2006, 06:06:28 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
If Mega Man is in the game.  I would do something like Mega Man from Mega Man 3.  

One special could be the leaf shield and attack.

One Special could be a gust of wind, that when he is in that air propels him upwards.

One Special could be he blaster and charge shot.



no. just no..... we want mega man to be cool, not the same fighter he was in marvel vs capcom.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on May 27, 2006, 06:19:28 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Question is, WHICH Mega Man are we talking about here? Haven't there been several over the years?


I don't think the word "several" can be used to describe the sheer number of Mega Man games.

My suggestion, the soccer ball from Mega Man Soccer.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on May 27, 2006, 06:40:33 PM
I'd say they should stay with Meggy 1 weapons, those are the most recognizeable.

I wonder if it'll support multiple meshes with appropriate voices for the same character (as opposed to skins, those only affect textures) so they could get rid of clones and make them part of another character (while also giving Daisy a more distinct look). Then I'd vote Snake->Raiden, Megaman->Roll and Simon Belmont->Julius Belmont (or Alucard but that guy has a different fighting style). The latter only because we don't have nearly enough people in their 50s in the game.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on May 27, 2006, 09:52:04 PM
I've always thought Mega Man would be a cool character to have in SSB.  I've only really played games in the X series, but I don't really care whether they were to stick him or the original in the game.  It'd be cool to have both of them via diferent models for the character, if they did happen to include that feature.  Maybe Protoman could be a third.  I always thought he looked cool, even though I don't really know much about him. :b
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Switchblade Cross on May 28, 2006, 05:04:04 AM
OK ok, this is a long topic, and I dident read all of it, so forgive me if what I will say has been touched on already.

I see we are currently discussing MegaMan.  He was one of the first 3rd party characters I would want to see in SSB:B.  I think they should either use the classic NES Megaman or Megaman X without armor upgrades.  As far as a move set goes, I think it would be really cool to have Megaman use his Kirby-like ability to copy powers.  Megaman's color would change accordingly, just as he did in his own games.  Copy Link, and get some kind of arrow or boomerang shot, copy Pikachu and have an electrical shot, and so on.  Try as much as possibly to disgunish him away from Kirby, so that, if Kirby recived Boomerang from Link, Megaman would recive Arrow Shot.  And, just as in the the classic games, you would have to beat the character to recive their powers.  Such as.  When you start each match as normal Megaman, both A and B would would do the same Mega Buster.  But each time you defeat a player using the B move, their power is added to your abilities.  Every time you defeat a diffrent character using B you gain thier power and rather than replacing the old one, like Kirby, you keep it and can cycle between them, but you loose all the powers you have gained each time you die.

Yeah, I'm bored so I'm just randomly coming up with stuff.

As far as other 3rd parties go, I think Japanese 3rd parties have the more likley chance to have their characters added.

Sega  -  Sonic
Capcom  -  Megaman
Konami  -  Solid Snake & Simon Belmont
Squarenix  -  Cloud
Hudson Soft  -  Bomberman  (I cant see him as the best character, but it is possible considering the Virtual Consoled deal between them an Nintendo)
Namco Bandai  -  ???  sombody from Soul Calibur maybe?  Pac-man?  lol
SNK  -  Metal Slug and King of Fighters are the only notable games I can think of...
Taito  -  Bub and Bob???
 
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 28, 2006, 06:25:18 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Switchblade Cross
As far as other 3rd parties go, I think Japanese 3rd parties have the more likley chance to have their characters added.

Sega  -  Sonic
Capcom  -  Megaman
Konami  -  Solid Snake & Simon Belmont
Squarenix  -  Cloud
Hudson Soft  -  Bomberman  (I cant see him as the best character, but it is possible considering the Virtual Consoled deal between them an Nintendo)
Namco Bandai  -  ???  sombody from Soul Calibur maybe?  Pac-man?  lol
SNK  -  Metal Slug and King of Fighters are the only notable games I can think of...
Taito  -  Bub and Bob???


Don't forget that they said there would probably only be about "1-2 other" third party characters, and that they had to have been released in a Nintendo game before. Cloud was in Chain of Memories for the GBA... but that's about it, so I wouldn't expect him. Of the ones listed, Sonic, Megaman, Simon and Bomberman seem like standing the greatest chance of filling those spots.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Switchblade Cross on May 28, 2006, 06:41:51 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok

Don't forget that they said there would probably only be about "1-2 other" third party characters, and that they had to have been released in a Nintendo game before. Cloud was in Chain of Memories for the GBA... but that's about it, so I wouldn't expect him. Of the ones listed, Sonic, Megaman, Simon and Bomberman seem like standing the greatest chance of filling those spots.



Oh no, I dont expect half of these.  As I said, I belive Japanese 3rd parties have the most likley chance of being included, so I was just randomly spitting out games/characters of companies that came to mind.  But, the 4 characters Sonic, Megaman, Simon and Bomberman, are also, in my opinion, the most likley suspects.   Actually, those make more sence than Snake ever will.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 28, 2006, 07:07:45 AM
Easycure:  That isn't the exact same character from the Marvel vs. Capcom.  It is similar but not the same.  Besides, he wouldn't play the same, because Smash Brothers isn't your typical fighting game.  I think those moves would have been different from feeling like other Smash Brother characters, yet also fit the design of the game.

I thought about Mega Man 1 characters, but Mega Man 1 wasn't nearly as creative or cool as Mega Man 2 or 3.  


I guess you could change it.

B) Mega Blaster/Charge shot (This is a given)

B Forward) Cut Blade (Fires and arcs around Megaman like a Boomerang of sorts.)

B Down) Leaf Shied (This is a very definative power from Mega Man 3 and is just super cool.)  Press Down B to activate.  The leafs disappear when they take damage, but Mega Man can press B and shoot them off towards an opponent.

B UP) Tornado Attack (Yes this game was from Marvel vs. Capcom, but it really works in Smash Brothers.  It adds a short Pop up attack for combos, and can be used for this 3rd jump...unless you don't want him to have a third jump.

Other Moves:

Down A) Performs his trademark slide attack.  Hold down A to slide longer, and you can use it to slide past traps quickly or slide past opposing characters.

Power Swap Throw)  One of Mega Man's throws should allow him to swap out regular B attack with another characters.  This move will change Mega Man's color and he will have the power a predetermined number of shots before switching back.  Similar to Kirby but, does not get to keep it until death.  Also like Kirby you can taunt to lose the power.

This Mega Man character would rock in Smash Brothers environment...and is the best likely means of representing him.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on May 28, 2006, 02:53:13 PM
I like that copy idea.  How would the leaf shield balance, though?  What's to stop someone from using it over and over again and becoming invincible?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on May 28, 2006, 05:31:05 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smoke39
I like that copy idea.  How would the leaf shield balance, though?  What's to stop someone from using it over and over again and becoming invincible?


Going off the idea, Megaman could still be stunned when his leaf shield takes a hit (so they just prevent damage), and if the player manages to destroy all of the leaves it could have an effect similar to having the shield broken with a stun left afterwards (perhaps an even longer stun type effect to balance it out). Overall, it shouldn't be too hard to balance if they wanted to use it, or the character.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: decoyman on May 28, 2006, 06:13:15 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Switchblade Cross
As far as other 3rd parties go, I think Japanese 3rd parties have the more likley chance to have their characters added.

Sega  -  Sonic
Capcom  -  Megaman
Konami  -  Solid Snake & Simon Belmont
Squarenix  -  Cloud
Hudson Soft  -  Bomberman  (I cant see him as the best character, but it is possible considering the Virtual Consoled deal between them an Nintendo)
Namco Bandai  -  ???  sombody from Soul Calibur maybe?  Pac-man?  lol
SNK  -  Metal Slug and King of Fighters are the only notable games I can think of...
Taito  -  Bub and Bob???


Heh, I think Sonic and a Belmont are no-brainers, but we'll see. Pac-man might be interesting. However, from SquareEnix, I'm thinking of a Chocobo. It'd be different and comical, sort of like Jigglypuff or Pichu. If not a Chocobo, how 'bout a Moogle? Montblanc anyone?

On Nintendo characters, it may have been said before, but an alternative form of Mario might be fun... yes, I speak of 8-bit Mario. When he gets to around 150% damage, he can transform to little mario for an extra wrinkle in strategy.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bloodworth on May 28, 2006, 06:43:28 PM
I'd think a Chocobo would work like a Pokemon or one of the summon Chocobos in FF - just shows up, kicks a few times, and runs away.  It would be hard to pick another FF character, but I would almost bet on something more classic like a Black Mage.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Michael8983 on May 28, 2006, 06:45:50 PM
Sonic is a definite. Naki said long ago he was open to him appearing in a Smash Bros title.

Pacman is very likely. Afterall Nintendo made Pac Man Vs and Pacman and related characters appear in Namco's arcade version of Mario Kart.

As unlikely as it may have been a few years back, I think it's very likely now that we'll see Cloud or another popular Final Fantasy character in the game. A Dragon Quest character too. Square-Enix seems to love the Wii and Brawl's music is being composed by a man famous for composing for Final Fantasy.

I think if another Konami character appears it's more likely to be Goemon than Belmont.

We can't forget Bomberman either. Bomberman crossed over with the Mario universe when he went bomb-to-bomb with Wario on the Gameboy afterall. I could even see Bonk making an appearance, afterall his game was included in the demo for the virtual console.

I would love to see Megaman more than almost any other third-party character but he's not as likely as one would suspect. Unlike most of the other characters, neither Nintendo nor any of its second parties have ever in any way been involved with a Megaman title.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on May 28, 2006, 06:57:00 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Michael8983
I think if another Konami character appears it's more likely to be Goemon than Belmont.

That would excite me as much as learning of Ness' inclusion in the original.  Sasuke's my favorite, but any Goemon character in SSBB would be awesome.  Goemon games have such a great sense of humor, it's a shame so few of them get localized. ):
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on May 29, 2006, 01:46:42 AM
I think for Megaman up+B should summon Rush, that's what Meggy uses to gain extra height all the time.
The slide should be his dodge move, much more fitting.

As for Bomberman, I wonder. Does Hudson have any big source of income besides Mario Party? They seem to be kinda indebted to Nintendo.

I'd say Belmont is more likely than Goemon, they didn't even bother to put that guy into World Fighters. They did have that Jikkyou baseball dude, Simon Belmont, Twinbee, Snake and Moai in World Fighters but no Goemon.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on May 29, 2006, 03:54:39 AM
Chronos?

Frog swordsmans dual special attack?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on May 29, 2006, 04:39:01 AM
As an old-timer I just kind of think of Simon Belmont and Mega Man as the classic third-party Nintendo characters.  Of course, times have changed a lot since then.  One other I'd like to see, but it's also very unlikely, is Ryu Hayabusa.

Bomberman and Pac-Man both make a lot of sense in terms of recent partnerships, that's for sure.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on May 29, 2006, 06:18:18 AM
Chronos?

Don't you think a titan that took three high level gods to kill may be a tad too much for a brawler?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 29, 2006, 10:31:13 AM
Arbok:  Good idea about the Leaf shield.  Also, the Leaf shield has gaps between the shield and could have shots go through the blasts.

The leaf shield would protect you, but to shoot it away you have to press B which means you lose one of your special moves...you could make the person lose all their special moves requiring you to shot the leafs away before you are able to make another special attack.

Another balance is that large explosions from Bob-bombs, and such would easily take out a few leafs at the same time...if not all of them.

I think balance could easily be reached...and still not completely cripple the power.  It would be a good weapon to use to close the gap inbetween you and your opponent, or to retreat away from being eliminated from the match.


KDR:  Your Slide dodge move idea is perfect as well.  It fits exactly what I wanted Mega Man to do with the slide, move past characters and set up an attack.

Everyone is coming up with great ideas for Mega Man, now I wonder if we actually have a chance to see this character in the game.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Khushrenada on May 29, 2006, 11:23:49 AM
Anyone else think one of the third party characters might be Banjo or Kazooie or both together in some kind of mind blowing formation called Banjo-Kazooie. After all, Rare is a third party now, owned by Microsoft. Plus, they were pretty big on the 64.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on May 29, 2006, 04:28:18 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Khushrenada
Anyone else think one of the third party characters might be Banjo or Kazooie or both together in some kind of mind blowing formation called Banjo-Kazooie. After all, Rare is a third party now, owned by Microsoft. Plus, they were pretty big on the 64.


You just explained why they won't be in Brawl.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MattVDB on May 29, 2006, 04:40:35 PM
Some additions I've been waiting for have been a Metroid and Lightning Bolt to show up as items.  I know I've mentioned both before, but that was probably a year ago, or more.  I like that they've already put in Nintendogs, and I look forward to what a Chibi-Robot would do.

If the Metroid were there, I would like it to do something like 20-30 damage before returning to you, to refill that much health back.  A lightning bolt would basically be a Super Mushroom, but with a different perspective.  Everybody else gets small, and you stay, instead of everybody staying, and you getting big.  Alternitavely, it could come down in bolts, like Pika's, and shrink whoever gets hit.  Either way could work, really, although I think I prefer the second, only because it offers something different/unique.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on May 29, 2006, 08:01:58 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Quote

Originally posted by: Khushrenada
Anyone else think one of the third party characters might be Banjo or Kazooie or both together in some kind of mind blowing formation called Banjo-Kazooie. After all, Rare is a third party now, owned by Microsoft. Plus, they were pretty big on the 64.


You just explained why they won't be in Brawl.

But Microsoft loves Wii.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bubba on May 30, 2006, 02:16:45 AM
Apparently not Bill Gates though.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on May 30, 2006, 02:18:42 AM
Isn't Rare more like a second party developer now, since it is owned by Microsoft?  Or is it wholey first party now?  

Also

If Mega Man is in the game, I would rather Rush and Call be items in the game.

Rush could beam down and the first person to jump on him gets to ride Rush Jet or us his spring jump, to jump super high.  It wouldn't neccessarly be the most useful item in the game but cool.

Call could activate on her own and fly around dropping health items from the Mega Man universe.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MattVDB on May 31, 2006, 04:14:47 PM
The Dojo is updated again.  This time with pics of Snake.  :-)

The link for the lazy, SNAKE!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Louieturkey on May 31, 2006, 04:26:08 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: MattVDB
The Dojo is updated again.  This time with pics of Snake.  :-)

The link for the lazy, SNAKE!


Hehe, this means the next character they do a profile on will be a new character to the game (well, unless it's Link/Mario/Kirby/Pikachu).  Can't wait to find out who they add next.  Probably will be someone from Melee or something though.  Still should be fun to find out.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on May 31, 2006, 05:20:26 PM
Since they're showing the charactors from the trailer, my guess is Mario, Link, Kirby and Pikachu will be the next group shown, followed by charactors like Fox and Donkey Kong which everyone knows will be in it.

I get the feeling that any completly new charactors probobly wont be revealed until sometime this fall since the game isn't supposed to come out until 2007.  Plus for Melee the secret charactors weren't shown on the offical website until after the game was released so chances are alot of charactors wont be revealed until after the game comes out.

Of course the website N-Sider revealed all the secret charactors for Melee a few weeks before the game was even released in Japan so maybe the same will happen with Brawl to.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Griffin on May 31, 2006, 07:25:11 PM
I would think if SquareEnix had a character, it would be Mog or Chrono. Those may be the best fit (and my favorite from Square). Capcom, I would agree with Mega Man (X). I don't think Belmont or Alucard/Soma would be in the game, since Konami already has one character confirmed. But then again, there's always hidden characters... as far as we know, there could be two characters per third-party (so maybe 3 third-party companies, for a total of 3 starting and 3 hidden characters).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bloodworth on May 31, 2006, 07:44:14 PM
I bet John Madden will be in it.

" Let's take it to the edge with a lot of weird stuff!"
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Griffin on May 31, 2006, 08:16:27 PM
"And then you open the butter-packet!"
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on May 31, 2006, 08:22:24 PM
John Madden> I BELIEVE PEOPLE ARE HERE FOR A GAME OF SMASH BROTHERS!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on June 01, 2006, 12:27:33 AM
I want a badger. It's got mushrooms and Snake so it needs badgers.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on June 01, 2006, 01:00:39 AM
I want to play as a Metroid space pirate.  You could climb up walls and shoot squiggly lines from your claw-hand-things.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bloodworth on June 01, 2006, 02:11:02 AM
And don't forget that you could make parrot noises when you jump.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 01, 2006, 04:35:30 AM
I would settle for John Madden recording like 4-5 hours of audio for some colorful play by play of the action.

BOOM!!!  The Linebacker...I mean Link didn't even see that coming.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Khushrenada on June 01, 2006, 08:50:49 AM
Just thinking about this for a moment. We have Snake, Princess Peach, Ness and Star Fox throwing poke balls at each other and wearing bunny hoods all while Meta-Knight's ship is flying around in the background along with operatic music with latin lyrics and John Madden giving a play by play commentary.

Now that's a game.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 01, 2006, 10:17:16 AM
Has anyone else noticed that Link is wearing pants and not tights?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on June 01, 2006, 04:25:39 PM
Yes, just like in TP.  It makes me sad. ):
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on June 01, 2006, 09:23:15 PM
Quote

I would settle for John Madden recording like 4-5 hours of audio for some colorful play by play of the action.

BOOM!!! The Linebacker...I mean Link didn't even see that coming.

I'd settle for him replacing the original announcer.

"Jigglypuff!" "Player one defeated!"

Yeah.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 01, 2006, 10:13:18 PM
Hmm, this could be interesting.

While looking around some message boards I've discovered a quote that I'm not sure if it's true or not.

This is the quote.

---------------------

Masahiro Sakurai has confirmed the following names to appear in Nintendo's upcoming Super Smash Bros. Brawl via interview with Tokyo's popular "The Gaming Exchange" radio show:

New Faces:
KOOPA KID
RIDLEY
WIND WAKER LINK

Removed Faces:
ICE CLIMBERS
MR. GAME & WATCH
YOUNG LINK

Sakurai also confirmed that the existing "clones" from SSBM will be reworked as entirely seperate characters. One should also note that Young Link isn't being replaced entirely, rather simply replaced with the cel-shaded Link from Wind Waker. His name on the selection screen will still read "Young Link". Sakurai stated Game & Watch and the Ice Climbers will be removed due to the lack of general fan interest and that he decided to include Kid Icarus' Pit as a replacement to the Ice Climbers for those old school fans. He mentioned Pit will likely be the only classic character included. Also of importance is the fact that, according to Sakurai, the roster will be "between 30 and 40", leaving room for about 15 newcomers or so. In addition, there will be only be "one or two" 3rd party characters.

----------------------------


Once again, I'm not sure if this is true or not since it hasn't been reported by any major websites yet.  But I'm posting it because it would be very important information if it's actually true.

Oh and Bowsers name in Japan is Koopa so the Koopa Kid would be Bowser Jr from Super Mario Sunshine.  So if this info is true that would mean Bowser Jr and Ridley would both be new charactors with WW Link replacing Young Link.  Of course poor Ice Climbers and Game and Watch would be gone if true aswell.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nick DiMola on June 01, 2006, 11:47:04 PM
I kind of find that quote hard to believe. Ice Climbers happened to be (a) very solid fighter(s). One of the biggest challenges for me is facing someone who is good with the Ice Climbers, to just outright remove them seems like a very poor decision. Quite frankly I can understand the removal of Mr. Game and Watch but I would not be happy with his removal if this is true. I like the idea of swapping Young Link with Wind Waker Link, should differentiate him from Link. The clone news is a good thing if it turns out to be true, but I hope they don't rework the clones too much because I was a Ganondorf fighter and I would be a little peaved if his move set gets dumped in favor of Captain Falcon. As far as the newcomers go, that seems like an obvious few so I guess we will see if there are any big surprises down the road.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 02, 2006, 02:29:24 AM
I don't believe that quote either.

Yes, lets take away one of the most original characters in the game, and replace them.  Also, lets not go into the past and find classic characters that people love.  The fact that Meta Knight is in the game...I consider him a classic character.  

I have a feeling we really have no idea whom will be included in the game...and neither does Sakurai yet.  Why else would he be actually asking Japanese gamers who they would like to play in Smash Brothers...if the roster was already decided, then it would be a mute point.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 02, 2006, 06:12:54 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
While looking around some message boards I've discovered a quote that I'm not sure if it's true or not.


Got a link for that? A google search for:

Quote

"The Gaming Exchange" Sakurai


Turns up nothing.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on June 02, 2006, 07:50:05 AM
The only thing I'm kinda worried about is that I'm afraid I'm gonna really hate the music in this game.  My favorite track from melee was the Brinstar stage.  There's no orchestral substitute for an electric guitar.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 02, 2006, 08:08:05 AM
Smoke:  Well, I am very excited about the music...and just because an Orchestra is being used...doesn't mean an Electric Guitar won't be used in some tracks...or used along side the orchestra.

The one thing that really has me excited, is that Sakurai wants to create a new "feel" for the game, and that the Orchestrated music is a part of that.  To me I feel he wants to create a more serious tone for this game.  (Not to make it serious, but to perhaps make this his grande finale with the series.)  I expect the game to be quite amazing, and I expect the game to move away from the toy figurines and more into these are the real characters.  It would open up alot for the single player story mode.  

This game is going to be an opus of all things beautiful and Nintendo.  Just wait and see.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on June 02, 2006, 08:39:36 AM
The smash concert was amazing, and one of my favorite songs is the metroid theme. I have no doubt that the orchestra and chorus for the Metroid theme are going to be glorious, Im not entirely sure about the Donkey Kong rap or Mario's theme though, but I wasnt that sure about Metroid in orchestra either.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on June 02, 2006, 08:43:44 AM
I want the DK rap preformed operatively by three tenors.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on June 02, 2006, 09:17:06 AM
The Final Fantasy guy is doing this music, right? I don't know much about him, but I will say that I loved the SSBM soundtrack, and I'm really excited to see how this one turns out.

Quote

This game is going to be an opus of all things beautiful and Nintendo. Just wait and see
That's what I'm hoping for.. I want this game to bleed the Nintendo red.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on June 02, 2006, 10:09:33 AM
There's no way Ice Climbers will be removed.  Aren't they Miyamoto's favorite character?  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on June 02, 2006, 11:44:14 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Smoke:  Well, I am very excited about the music...and just because an Orchestra is being used...doesn't mean an Electric Guitar won't be used in some tracks...or used along side the orchestra.

Maybe, but that's not really the impression I got.  And I really don't like orchestra music.  But what really bugs me is when it seems like it's being used just for the sake of using orchestral music, because it's supposedly more epic or some junk.  Anyway, it's not like I'll hate the game if the music stinks, but obviously I'd prefer to listen to music I liked reasonably well while beating people up.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 02, 2006, 12:57:05 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smoke39
And I really don't like orchestra music.  But what really bugs me is when it seems like it's being used just for the sake of using orchestral music, because it's supposedly more epic or some junk.


Because you can do more with it, because it's more pleasent to listen to, etc. You might not like it, but some of us love it while some, myself included, prefer the Smashing Live soundtrack over what actually made it into the game.

Personally ,I can't wait to see how the music turns out.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on June 02, 2006, 01:47:54 PM
Im a huge fan of Metroid Metal but the orchestra version Ive heard of Metroid songs (both of them because there arent a lot) have been mind-blowing.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on June 02, 2006, 03:13:49 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
Because you can do more with it, because it's more pleasent to listen to, etc. You might not like it, but some of us love it while some, myself included, prefer the Smashing Live soundtrack over what actually made it into the game.

Personally ,I can't wait to see how the music turns out.

I know lots of people like it, it's just an idiosyncasy of mine.  I really don't think it has any inherent superiority however (eg "you can do more with it"), I think that's a matter of personal preference.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 02, 2006, 09:38:01 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smoke39
And I really don't like orchestra music.


Yeah, you're going to hell.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 03, 2006, 04:04:38 AM
I think people forget you can make almost any sound or simulate any sound with an orchestra.  I think people too often think of classical music or opera when they think orchestra and forget that it can be used for so much more.

John William's creates masterpieces that literally pull you into the movie experience.  Many of his works are so good they stand alone.  Most in the very least bring pictures of your fondest moments of the movies.  

The orchestra is the most powerful and moving means of creating music...and most expensive.

The fact that Nintendo is going this route for Smash Brothers Brawl proves they are willing to spare no expense in this game.  They aren't pulling the punches and this game will be glorious.  

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on June 03, 2006, 04:28:26 AM
The only thing better than orchestral music is 8-bit music.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 03, 2006, 07:56:44 AM
Because of the orchestral music, this is one of the reasons I'm hoping for Sonic and Megaman to be in the game.  Sonic and Megaman games had amazing music and to hear some of their themes orchestrated would just be beyond perfect.

Oh God what I'd love to hear would be a Sonic theme that had orchestrated versions of the Japanese versions of Palmtree Panic (Present), Quartz Quadrant (Present) and Stardust Speedway (Present) from Sonic CD.  Those are my three favorite Sonic themes of all time.

Of course the problem would be since Sonic CD was for the Sega CD/Mega CD, it's still one of the lesser known Sonic games and so music from Sonic 1, 2 and 3 would be more likely because they were more popular.  

Plus there's the fact that Sega of America's a bunch of dicks when it comes to the Japanese soundtrack for Sonic CD and would probobly try to find of way to stop the music from being thrown into the game by saying it'll cause Americans cancer if they listen to it or some other horrible excuse like that.  Or worst of all, try to have the music replaced by the horrible American versions of the songs.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mikintosh on June 03, 2006, 08:23:36 AM
I actually really like the music from Sonics 1-3, especially the Green Hill Zone theme, which would be a likely inclusion if Sonic's in the game; they're indentifiable in a good way. I'd count on tunes like those to be done on guitar like the Mach Rider theme in SSBM, not orchestral.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 03, 2006, 09:11:02 AM
Oh, I hope I didn't sound like I hated Sonic 1-3, I love the soundtracks to those games as well.  It's just the Japanese version of Sonic CD has my favorite Sonic soundtack and I get really worked up when I talk about it.

I agree, Green Hill Zone would be the best choice since it's the theme pretty much everyone thinks about when they think of Sonic.  Plus it's a very good theme as well.  
Another one that'd work well would be Starlight Zone's theme and the second stage of Sonic 2 (I cant remember the name at this moment) theme
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on June 03, 2006, 11:54:55 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I think people forget you can make almost any sound or simulate any sound with an orchestra.  I think people too often think of classical music or opera when they think orchestra and forget that it can be used for so much more.

I'm not mistaking it for anything, I just don't like it. :b
And there are some things an orchestra just can't do.  For example, the orchestra version of the Deus Ex theme they randomly decided to use for the PS2 version of the game lacked a lot of the original's tone.  I'm not saying this is necessarily true, but to me it just seems like they were like "whoa, orchestra music is fancy, let's use it because we can!"
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 03, 2006, 01:04:51 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smoke39
...but to me it just seems like they were like "whoa, orchestra music is fancy, let's use it because we can!"


Well let me tell you its not. As Spak-Spang mentioned it's not cheap at all, especailly in Japan as it's actually less expensive (and has been done before) to fly a crew out to Russia or Germany and use their orchestras while bringing along a Japanese composer. So this is not something where they simply said "Eh, want to use a Orchestra?" "Sure, why the hell not?" There are huge expenses attached so this descion does not come easy, and it's why you don't see a great deal of orchestration in video games as it's not economically feasible for the most part.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on June 03, 2006, 01:34:13 PM
i thought the FF composer was only doing the Title theme, the one thats playing during the trailer....
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on June 03, 2006, 02:20:15 PM
Thats what is confirmed, whether or not he will make the arrangements for the rest of the music remains to be known.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 03, 2006, 02:20:17 PM
EasyCure:  I think it is mentioned on Smash Brothers Dojo, that the Orchestra was being used for all music.  Though the FF composer may only be used to write that original Opera for the Title theme.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: TMW on June 04, 2006, 06:11:49 AM
Yeah...I remember reading a translated interview where the composer bascially said he wanted to use the orchestra and latin lyrics for all the music in the game.

Which is awesome.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Artimus on June 04, 2006, 06:55:36 AM
I think that this is a prime game for orchestral music as you have a limited amount needed.

Orchestral beats synethesized anyday for this type of music. Afterall, the midi is trying to sound as close to orchestral as possible.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 04, 2006, 07:32:41 AM
Sorry to interrupt your conversation, but I have an urgent message from Samus:
"It is too hot and I wish you guys would turn down the heat in here!"
that is all.

you may return to your regularly scheduled conversation.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on June 04, 2006, 07:43:18 AM
I still like Samus better as a purple-onde.

*Sigh* But her hair color is her own choice, who am I to argue?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 04, 2006, 09:19:58 AM
Agree with Purple.

On the Orchestra note.  I am a stout lover of Brass.  I hate Violins.  Not because of the sound it's just that 1 violin can be much louder then 1 tuba and an orchestra has 1 tuba and 20 bajillion violins.  I'm hoping that them using a live orchestra for the musical scores is also an indication of the Wii's Audio Prowless.   Unlike most of your modern guitar oriented music, no offense intended, orchestrated, vocal, and brass music, analog instruments in general for that fact, really show off the true properties of you're sound system and audio source.   I have a British Brass Band CD that is my favorite.  Every time I get new Equipment I listen to it to see how close it is to the life performance it was from, I was there.  Consistently when I've gotten better equipment I can hear more and more subtlies especially with the great Tuba solo it has, I like Tuba what can I say.  I just can't find that with Guns n' Roses or Areosmith, (can't spell today).  Also, if you can get your hands on it, listen to the DVD version of a CD you already know.  It's really nice.  Different game developers just don't get how the audio really does make a real impact.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 04, 2006, 09:28:34 AM
Arbok said everything I was gonna say about orchestra music

so, I'll add that you should (try to) listen these things...
- Metallica's S&M
- Any of the John Williams' soundtracks (prime example, the Star Wars theme )
- Any of the Gundam SEED/Gundam SEED Destiny OSTs (Seigi to Jiyuu form Gundam SEED OSTIII, Tachiagare! Okori Yo from Gundam SEED OSTIV, and Sakebi to Gekitetsu from Gundam SEED Destiny OSTIV are simply brilliant, as are the special Symphonic Suites made by the London Symphony Orchestra)
- Obviously, the Lord of the Rings soundtrack
- The Mai HiME and Mai Otome OSTs (Mezame from Mai HiME OSTI is excellent, as is Sei Otome no Inori from Mai Otome OSTII)
- and I couldn't end without mentioning the best song EVER, A Song of Storm and Fire, from Tsubasa Chronicle OSTI

those are prime examples of the diversity given by orchestra music, some really epic songs and such..

on a side note, the fact that the game uses this type of music is like "OMFG! rool:", and really shows that Nintendo is all out to make this game one of their greatest.....
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on June 04, 2006, 09:45:54 AM
My suggestions:

CHARACTERS

Bowser Junior
I reckon Bowser Junior could work quite well. Maybe toned down power-wise compared with Bowser, but more agile. I was thinking of one of his moves being a transformation to Shadow Mario from Super Mario Sunshine, like the Zelda to Shiek move in SSBM. Shadow Mario could have a goo attack, a staff attack and maybe even a paint warphole for a save-your-life move.

STAGES

Mario Sunshine Worlds
Just imagine how well some of the Sunshine areas could turn out. Possibly at Ricco Harbour, there could be moving platforms from the cranes, and Bloopers in the background that occasionally fire slime onto the arena. Or what about Gelato Beach, with sand dunes popping up and Quack Attacks running in to cause havoc every so often.

Then again, these ideas are mainly because I broke out Super Mario Sunshine for the first time in ages, and I had SSBB on my mind at the same time.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on June 04, 2006, 09:53:51 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
Quote

Originally posted by: Smoke39
...but to me it just seems like they were like "whoa, orchestra music is fancy, let's use it because we can!"


Well let me tell you its not. As Spak-Spang mentioned it's not cheap at all, especailly in Japan as it's actually less expensive (and has been done before) to fly a crew out to Russia or Germany and use their orchestras while bringing along a Japanese composer. So this is not something where they simply said "Eh, want to use a Orchestra?" "Sure, why the hell not?" There are huge expenses attached so this descion does not come easy, and it's why you don't see a great deal of orchestration in video games as it's not economically feasible for the most part.

The cost is actually part of my perception that it's often used even when another type of music might fit better.  Like it's sometimes used just as a way to show off, like, "Check it out, we spent a bunch of money to make fancy orchestra music."  That is, having fully orchestral music is another bullet that can be added to the box, so to speak.

Anyway, I just don't like seeing it used out of context is all, like my Deus Ex theme example.  Like, from melee I thought the music for the fountain of dreams fit pretty well, but had they tried to use orchestra music for Mr. Game And Watch's stage, it wouldn't have fit at all, imo.  I just don't want them to limit themselves to orchestra music for every single stage in Brawl just because orchestra music is presitgious, when another style might suit it better, you know?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 04, 2006, 09:57:07 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smoke39
I just don't want them to limit themselves to orchestra music for every single stage in Brawl just because orchestra music is presitgious, when another style might suit it better, you know?


Just because they are using a orchestra, does not mean that there is some clause somewhere that states that every peice of music must be orchestrational on account of that. Given the past two games, I would be very surprised if the 8-bit Mario theme isn't used for example.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on June 04, 2006, 10:25:28 AM
I hope so.  Maybe I misread something, but I had kinda gotten then impression that the entire soundtrack was gonna be orchestral.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on June 04, 2006, 02:15:36 PM
Sunshine levels would be awesome..
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caterkiller on June 04, 2006, 04:45:15 PM
I bet we will see a Mario Galaxy level. I would love some kind of tiny planet that everyone could fight on. Very similiar to the Rapheal the Raven Boss on Yoshis Island, anyone remember? Fighting upside down and side ways really sparks my interest.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on June 04, 2006, 04:59:24 PM
On the subject of Wii game levels, I'd like to see an EXCITE TRUCK level. There could be like a ramp where BIG DAMN TRUCKS would randomly zoom past over the stage. Like the cars in the Earthbound level of SSBM.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on June 04, 2006, 05:26:05 PM
Quote

I'm not mistaking it for anything, I just don't like it. :b

How you can prefer fake electronic simulations of real instruments to, you know, real instruments is beyond me. I suppose I can agree with you that for some classic stages electronic bleeps and bloops might be better, but, yeah.

Actually, I hope this is a sign of things to come from Nintendo. How awesome would it be for the next Zelda game to have fully orchestrated music?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on June 04, 2006, 06:07:14 PM
More ideas

Chibi Robo
This little guy has a lot of capabilities, which could be changed into attacks. Attack with his plug could be the standard A hit. For B moves, it could have the Chibi-Copter as a save-the-life move as well as hitting others with the blades. The Chibi-Blaster could be used in the sort of way Samus used his Charge Beam. The Squirter could hit and push opponents away. And for a little finishing touch, if Brawl will keep the pose move when you press up on the D-Pad, Chibi could do his Drake Redcrest pose.

Pikmin arena
A lot of posters have suggested Captain Olimar. I agree with that idea, but what about a Pikmin map? All the crates/barrels would be replaced by Pikmin pallets, the spaceship and the onions randomly flying above, and maybe even have the arena change, like the SSBM Pokemon Stadium. One moment, you're fighting in the Impact Site, with clams biting onto your feet to slow you down, when suddenly it changes to Forest Naval, with jets of steam shooting you up.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mikintosh on June 04, 2006, 06:19:12 PM
actually, can anybody bring up anything that insinuated the soundtrack would be mostly orchestral, or is this based entirely off the trailer?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on June 04, 2006, 06:26:44 PM
yes, no
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mikintosh on June 04, 2006, 08:04:00 PM
aha, i be wrong.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dryden on June 05, 2006, 11:54:56 PM
I'd really, really like to see more first generation stages.  Like the SMB1 stage in Melee, but for other franchises.
A retro Kid Icarus stage is a likely given.  An 8-bit Metroid stage would work great, too.  But I really, really want a retro DK stage - in fact, just put the first level of the original Donkey Kong on screen a la the Game and Watch stage in Melee.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Donutt007 on June 06, 2006, 05:50:22 AM
Some new info translated from the Japanese site HERE

Some highlights  
"Non-Nintendo characters added into the game MUST have appeared on a Nintendo platform. The tentative number of non-Nintendo characters to be added is 1-2."
"Not all characters will return."

Go check the link for more info.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on June 06, 2006, 09:04:34 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
Actually, I hope this is a sign of things to come from Nintendo. How awesome would it be for the next Zelda game to have fully orchestrated music?


Uh, I'm pretty sure Nintendo already said that Twighlight Princess will be fully orchestrated.  Then Matt at IGN used it as another excuse to complain about the lack of voice acting.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: please let me in, please on June 06, 2006, 09:23:39 AM
Muffins will eat your fanny chosen child of the underworld!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OOGA BOOGA!!!!!!!!!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 06, 2006, 09:27:34 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Donutt007
Some new info translated from the Japanese site HERE


Some interesting tid bits, nice to get a more complete story behind some of the things that were said.  Although that "not all characters might return" thing could just be a clause, especially if it's revealed that a few of the clones are gone, yet preparing people for something possibly more severe will make it seem fairly minor when all is said and done... although what could happen at this stage is anyone's guess.

Quote

Originally posted by: please let me in, please
Muffins will eat your fanny chosen child of the underworld!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OOGA BOOGA!!!!!!!!!


The hell?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 06, 2006, 09:33:55 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Donutt007
"Not all characters will return."


GUH!

Also, no online ranking system? Balls to that.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on June 06, 2006, 10:37:42 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
Actually, I hope this is a sign of things to come from Nintendo. How awesome would it be for the next Zelda game to have fully orchestrated music?


Uh, I'm pretty sure Nintendo already said that Twighlight Princess will be fully orchestrated.  Then Matt at IGN used it as another excuse to complain about the lack of voice acting.


What Kondo and Aunoma said was that some parts of the game will be orchestrated, specially cutscenes from the way they worded it, and Aunoma specifically reminded us that he "must keep things within budget". Maybe things have changed and its fully orchestrated now but I doubt it.


Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 06, 2006, 11:16:17 AM
Well the whole "within a budget line" was said at last years E3 before they delayed the game and decided to make a Wii version of it.  Any budget they had they've probobly gone way over by now so anything is possible.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Michael8983 on June 06, 2006, 12:03:49 PM
"The tentative number of non-Nintendo characters to be added is 1-2."

My bet is on Sonic and Pacman.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: JonLeung on June 06, 2006, 12:05:13 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Michael8983
"The tentative number of non-Nintendo characters to be added is 1-2."

My bet is on Sonic and Pacman.


Probably good guesses.

Though it's "Pac-Man!"  Pac-Man!  With a hyphen!  Like Spider-Man!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 06, 2006, 01:17:18 PM
Has anyone else seen this clip?

WWE Smash Bros

Wow, whoever did this did a perfect job.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 06, 2006, 01:22:52 PM
Pac-man sure but Sonic is a no go more than likely.  I doubt him being on Gamecube and the handhelds are enough.  Plus as mentioned in the thread about what you would want in this game his moveset would have to be very creative to even remotely be close to the source material.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 06, 2006, 01:33:28 PM
"Pac-man sure but Sonic is a no go more than likely"

What?  Sonic has WAY more chance of being in than Pac-man does...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: mantidor on June 06, 2006, 01:41:24 PM
I think that actually snake has been in fewer games on Nintendo consoles than sonic.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: TMW on June 06, 2006, 03:21:40 PM
Solid Snake = 4

For Sonic, I am counting Mega Collection as 1.

Sonic = 9


But, you have to factor in that Hideo Kojima personally requested that Snake be put in Smash Brothers. That counts for alot, methinks.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 06, 2006, 03:23:28 PM
But hasn't Metal Gear the Series been on more different Nintendo platforms.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Louieturkey on June 06, 2006, 03:51:35 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
But hasn't Metal Gear the Series been on more different Nintendo platforms.


Metal Gear was on NES, GBC, GCN.  I think that is it.  Sonic was on GCN, GBA, and DS.

You can say that Metal Gear has its origins on a Nintendo console whereas Sonic definitely does not.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on June 06, 2006, 03:57:12 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
But hasn't Metal Gear the Series been on more different Nintendo platforms.


Right, and he included that.

Metal Gear - NES 1988
Snake's Revenge - NES (US/Europe only) 1990
Metal Gear: Ghost Babel (Metal Gear Solid in NTSC and PAL) - GBC 2000
Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes: NGC  2004
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on June 06, 2006, 04:23:07 PM
I just wanted to bring this little video to your attention somewhere that it will actually get noticed, instead of just lost in the Funhouse

Super Smash Brothers Wrestling

p.s. I think Sonic is all but a given as far as included characters, anybody remember that interview some odd years ago where they hinted that Sonic might be in the next SSB? I think it was back in '04, I'm sure someone remembers and can find it,
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Zach on June 06, 2006, 05:38:42 PM
um... you might want to try scrolling up.

Edit: Oh wait, Luigi's link goes directly to the clip while your link goes to another thread that goes to the clip, so they are different, if only slightly.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on June 06, 2006, 06:47:01 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: mantidor
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
Actually, I hope this is a sign of things to come from Nintendo. How awesome would it be for the next Zelda game to have fully orchestrated music?


Uh, I'm pretty sure Nintendo already said that Twighlight Princess will be fully orchestrated.  Then Matt at IGN used it as another excuse to complain about the lack of voice acting.


What Kondo and Aunoma said was that some parts of the game will be orchestrated, specially cutscenes from the way they worded it, and Aunoma specifically reminded us that he "must keep things within budget". Maybe things have changed and its fully orchestrated now but I doubt it.

Oh, really? Even if it's only used in some places, that's really good news. Maybe Nintendo is finally realizing that good sound is just as important as good visuals.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on June 06, 2006, 06:59:45 PM
(not 100% confirmed)

New Characters Announced!!

Bowser Jr (HAHAHAHA)
Ridley
Wind Waker Link (replacing young link)

Ice Climbers and Game & Watch gone. I thought Game & Watch was awesome... but oh well. Wind Waker Link will kick ass!

Total number of characters will be around 40  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 06, 2006, 07:04:01 PM
Wind Waker Link and Twilight Princess Link in just as I had hoped...

I'll "miss" the lost characters, but I'm certainly not upset...I used Ice Climbers a bit, but I'm not going to have a cry about it...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Infernal Monkey on June 06, 2006, 07:07:13 PM
Poor Mr. Game & Watch. Now who will fry bacon as an attack? I'm lookin' at you Donkey Kong.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on June 06, 2006, 07:14:18 PM
Guys that was posted some THREE PAGES BACK and everyone thought it was false.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 06, 2006, 07:23:58 PM
OH DEAR!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Infernal Monkey on June 06, 2006, 07:26:00 PM
Yeah but that was three pages ago, quit livin' in the past!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on June 06, 2006, 07:26:24 PM
Oh, well there's a link now! I didn't notice anyone talking about it but if it's fake then that explains why.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 06, 2006, 09:46:22 PM
Ridley is the worst idea ever. "Hay guyz, let's take a 25 foot tall lizard and shrink him down to human size." With that in mind, I believe it's false.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on June 06, 2006, 11:57:43 PM
I am so sad right now I don't even know what to say.

EDIT:  Holy Hell crap.  What if the Ice Climbers were being replaced with tag-team baby Mario & baby Luigi?  How cool would that be?

That have lots of the same moves (i.e. hammers, ice/fire balls, etc).  All you would need to do is string them together and *presto* instant Ice Climber clone.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on June 07, 2006, 02:51:50 AM
Dirk: Ridley wasn't much taller than Bowser in the original Metroid. He could be the same size as Bowser in SSBB.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on June 07, 2006, 04:00:05 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
I am so sad right now I don't even know what to say.

EDIT:  Holy Hell crap.  What if the Ice Climbers were being replaced with tag-team baby Mario & baby Luigi?  How cool would that be?

That have lots of the same moves (i.e. hammers, ice/fire balls, etc).  All you would need to do is string them together and *presto* instant Ice Climber clone.


that'd be HOT but i can already hear ian bitchin about them not using more "original" characters and doing this in favor of nintendo milking their franchises or something

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 07, 2006, 07:29:06 AM
Oh no, now several other websites including 1Up are reporting the rumor as actual news.  And they're source is the same LiveWii french site that Mario posted.

Now when I first posted this rumor last week my only sources were Smash Boards and Gamefaqs Smash Bros board but both boards after some disscusion decide the info was false and stopped talking about it.

The thing that everyone decided makes this false was the part where Ice Climbers and Game and Watch would be removed because they weren't popular.  Sakurai has said on the Japanese Smash Bros website that charactor popularity will play no role in deciding who stays or goes.  He also said that having all famous charactors would be boring and that having non famous charactors can be more fun.

I'm guessing someone at LiveWii most have been looking around the web and found this on a message board and didn't realise this was a fake rumor and decided to post it thinking they had breaking news.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 07, 2006, 04:23:10 PM
I absolutely love the Baby Mario/Baby Luigi idea.  Ice Climbers was cool...but the characters had a few quirks I didn't like.  However, I think that ironing out those quirks and adding the very cool characters of Baby Mario and Luigi would be great.  Specially if they used that gibberish speak from the RPG games for their voices.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 07, 2006, 06:47:31 PM
Well we shouldn't be expecting any big updates on SSBB to soon.  According to one of the translations from SamuraiPanda at Smash Boards, Sakurai says that when the charactor poll ends on June 9th which would be tomorrow, he'll be devoting his full time to development of the game.  

He says that sometime in 2007 when the game is more complete they'll give the game a real introduction and do something similar to what they did with the offical Melee website where he'll reveal one charactor every week and show us how they play.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: JonLeung on June 08, 2006, 01:44:17 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Ridley is the worst idea ever. "Hay guyz, let's take a 25 foot tall lizard and shrink him down to human size." With that in mind, I believe it's false.


I believe Ridley could be in there, regardless of whether I believe that particular rumour from that particular source.

As has been mentioned, he's kinda like Bowser in their first NES games each, and characters like Pikachu (and supposedly Kirby - it's hard to tell) who are something like a foot tall are made tall enough to compete with the likes of Mario.  If Pikachu is four-six times taller, I don't see how unrealistic it would be for Ridley to be two-four times smaller.

If it is a concern, maybe he could be a special character in some Event like Giga Bowser in the last Event in SSB:M.  I doubt that's a spoiler but whatever.  Metroid is popular in recent years and Ridley is pretty much the only recurring character in the series who has been in more than two games so we'll see him in some form, likely more than just a collectible trophy (which I hope they still have).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on June 08, 2006, 03:53:06 AM
I agree with JonLeung about size - Nintendo scales characters up and down for the games, there's no need to leave Olimar or Ridley out just because they aren't to scale.

I don't want the Mario series to dominate SSB too much, I'd be happiest if Wario was the only addition from the Mario universe in this game.  I don't really want Bowser Jr. or the Mario Bros. Babies, although I admit the babies would make an interesting Ice Climbers clone.  I agree with the idea that having less-popular characters is more fun, it gives the player a lesson on Nintendo history and adds more variety to the cast.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 08, 2006, 07:22:11 AM
I really don't think scale is an issue for several characters.  Take Olimar for instance.  In his games he is collecting typical items from our world that are quite small to us...but are really quite huge to him.  Does this really reflect on his size?

I would argue it doesn't.  Instead the designers were trying to figure out what Olimar will collect, and it was decided that collecting old Earth junk would be cool, because people would recognize their treasure they are collecting...and yet because of its size it also feels foreign.  It brings a sense of wonder and magic to the game.  

Olimar in Smash Brothers could be regular size as a normal human...and it not be bizzare or scaling.

Ridley could also be scaled down without too much consequence, because he is often times scaled to fit whatever game universe that the system is capable to handle.

Ridley just doesn't seem like a very workable Smash Brothers Character however.  

Although saying that if character specific bosses were used, then Ridley would be a great Metroid Boss for Smash Brothers.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on June 08, 2006, 07:43:01 AM
When's the last time you saw Ridley walk around on the ground?  It just wouldn't work.

I'm with couchmonkey - give me Giga Ridley or give me death.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on June 08, 2006, 07:51:25 AM
Then again, Mewtwo didn't walk on the ground in SSBM.

Although, I don't particulary feel an urge for Ridley. However ... CAPP'N OLIMAR FOR THE WIN!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on June 08, 2006, 08:37:31 AM
For the record, I hate Mewtwo, too.  He can burn in Hell.  Totally should be replaced with regular Mew.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Griffin on June 08, 2006, 09:12:51 AM
Actually, Ridley was grounded in Metroid: Prime. Also, people seem to forget the opening video for SSBM, which has a sized-down ridley fighting Samus. A bit of foreshadowing there?

Not saying Ridley would make a good character (or a character, period), but I think he could work.

Standard moves are easy to guess, so no point going into that. Special moves? Let's see:

B - Fireballs
Down + B - tail swipe (Tail spike if he's in the air, identical to his attack in Super Metroid, where he bounces along the ground... similar to Links down thrust).
Left/Right + B - Charge-swipe, taken from Metroid Prime.
Up + B - Not sure... enable flight mode (for a limited time), burst of fire upwards, like Samus's attack?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on June 08, 2006, 09:19:02 AM
IMO, I would rather not have slots taken up by loads of characters from the same game series who are quite similiar to other potential characters.

Instead, I want Nintendo to take advantage of their massive library. That way, there is more variety, plus it increases chances of unique movesets.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 08, 2006, 09:54:07 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Killer_Man_Jaro
IMO, I would rather not have slots taken up by loads of characters from the same game series who are quite similiar to other potential characters.


Exactly, the thought of Baby Mario and Baby Luigi in the game, like some here have hoped for, makes me ill... I had my fill in Melee with Mario and Doctor Mario, and I hope we don't see characters who are the same person or that close again. There are tons of series to dive into before something like that would be needed too, and I would be pretty pissed if someone from Advance Wars doesn't show up (Sturm for the win... but he would be very unlikely with him being dead and all)

Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
For the record, I hate Mewtwo, too.  He can burn in Hell.  Totally should be replaced with regular Mew.


...Die.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on June 08, 2006, 05:00:54 PM
Also, it decreases the chances of clones. I don't want to have any clones this time ... SSBM had far too many.

Mario -> Doctor Mario -> Luigi
Captain Falcon -> Gannondorf
Pikachu -> Pichu
Marth -> Roy
Fox McCloud -> Falco Lombardi
Link -> Young Link

Hopefully, some of them are to be dropped, and others revamped seriously.

My take:
Doc Mario should be cut, and Mario and Luigi should have seperate moves influence by their GC games (e.g. FLUDD and Poltergust 3000). Captain Falcon might stay, but this means Gannondorf needs some serious work - he's had loads of unique stuff since the days of Ocarina of Time (e.g. double sword combo, ball of black magic, morph into Ganon). Older Pokemon could possibly be cut out in favour of newer ones but not really sure. As for the Fire Emblem duo, Roy will probably go for his over-power, and Marth will need a brand new moveset. In terms of the Star Fox pair, Falco is pointless and can be dropped, while Fox can just get an update. Finally, Link should be Twilight Princess style and Young Link should be Wind Waker style - movesets can be the different items from the two ages in Ocarina.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on June 08, 2006, 05:13:35 PM
Quote

I really don't think scale is an issue for several characters. Take Olimar for instance. In his games he is collecting typical items from our world that are quite small to us...but are really quite huge to him. Does this really reflect on his size? [snip]
Olimar in Smash Brothers could be regular size as a normal human...and it not be bizzare or scaling.

Have you ever looked at the instruction booklet for Pikmin?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on June 08, 2006, 05:23:22 PM
Wasn't it something to do with Olimar being the size of a penny? Not that it matters anyway. Nintendo resized in SSB, they did it in SSBM and I guarantee there will be more resizing in SSBB.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2006, 05:51:26 PM
I'd like to see Mewtwo redone to be a power character instead of a tech character. The actual Mewtwo was a devastating force, not the "tricky" type.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on June 08, 2006, 05:53:36 PM
Quote

Wasn't it something to do with Olimar being the size of a penny? Not that it matters anyway. Nintendo resized in SSB, they did it in SSBM and I guarantee there will be more resizing in SSBB.

They put him next to a penny and, if I remember correctly, give his actual measurements in milimeters.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 08, 2006, 06:04:27 PM
Thing is, Pikachu is supposed to be 13 inches tall or something, and Kirby is 7-8 inches, I believe.

They're not to scale, either, as Link alone would TOWER over them were they to scale.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mikintosh on June 08, 2006, 08:46:19 PM
If Olimar was in the game, scaling would be a must also because the Pikmin would be microscopic besides.

I can see them only adding Wario and maybe Toad for the Mario team, as anymore would start to tilt the balance towards an already very well-exposed franchise, which came close to happening in SSBM.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on June 08, 2006, 09:19:13 PM
Griffin: I'd say Down B should be his dive grab, sweep down and grab an enemy. The tail stomp can be an A button move.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 09, 2006, 05:00:35 AM
No I haven't looked at the instruction booklet for Pikmin.  I played the game...but I rarely read the instruction manuals.

If you re-read my post.  I think I explain the decisions behind the game design of Pikmin.  It was to create that feeling of backyard exploration...where ordinary everyday stuff became extraordinary.  

Olimar was created small to give everyday ordinary things a feeling of something new and odd, and basically special.

So I guess you would say based on his game, you would be scaling him up to size for Smash Brothers Brawl.

I would say...yes technically that is true, however the scaling isn't a big deal, because the character Olimar and the Pikmin are embrassing a new theme within the game of Smash Brothers.  They aren't in a game of exploration...but within a fighting game.

So the only thing that would matter would be how to design Olimar and his Pikmin into a fighting style that respects the original game, and unique character and fighting style he would have.

That is the only thing that matters...if Sakurai can create Olimar to fit in the game respectful of his original creation then he should be added, if not then he shouldn't.

About Ridley:  In Melee's opening cinema it was using a character montage to show who each character is within their own game.  Which is why Samus was fighting a classic villian in her intro.

Like above I believe that if the character could be created and balanced well then do it.  I have my doubts, because Sakurai himself said that he felt Ridley would be cheap character.

Now I would love there to be classic battle scenes from all Nintendo's games within the adventure mode.

In this mode is where I would like to see special "boss" type battles.  

Examples:

All the Koopa Kids
Ridley Flying around in all Ridley Glory.
Giga Bowser...or Bowser in his Clown flyer...or even all the different various Bowser battles.


What I don't want is just Giant sized battles of the regular combatants...I want something bigger, and more special.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on June 09, 2006, 05:06:00 AM
The Classic controller is only necessary for SNES and N64 titles.

I could see Nintendo NOT bundling it in initially, but then including the classic controller in later bundle releases for third-generation adopters and onward.

If the Wii can hit a low price, then Nintendo has two methods of making "new and improved" happen: create better bundles or lower prices.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 09, 2006, 05:17:38 AM
Kairon:  I definately see Nintendo at LEAST bundling the Classic Controller in with Smash Brothers Brawl when it comes out.  If the game requires a traditional controller Nintendo will at least provide one.

I can also see Nintendo sending you Classic Controller as a reward for registering a certain number of Wii games...or buying a certain number of Virtual Console games.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on June 09, 2006, 05:36:49 AM
Hmm... I was under the impression that Smash Bros. would be designed to be controlled with the Nunchuck combo. It's not getting ANY more complicated, it may be getting simpler, and the Nunchuck combo already offers all the basic functionality a Smash Bros. game needs.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 09, 2006, 05:44:21 AM
Karion:  I don't think the control method has been finalized.  Though it has been commented that the team may decide to develop the game for the traditional controller, so that it maintains the feel of Smash Brothers.  

I don't care which control method they use, as long as the game if fun, however I do know several people are pushing for Nintendo to use the traditional controller for the game.

And it may be the best bet for Nintendo.  Smash Brothers is popular, and it would ensure that people purchased the classic controller shell for playing 4 player matches, and then 3rd parties and virtual console designers would know everyone had the traditional controller.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: JonLeung on June 09, 2006, 05:47:46 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang

About Ridley:  In Melee's opening cinema it was using a character montage to show who each character is within their own game.  Which is why Samus was fighting a classic villian in her intro.


Oooh!  That reminds me of Wolf and Samurai Goroh!

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on June 09, 2006, 06:56:24 AM
I can also see Nintendo sending you Classic Controller as a reward for registering a certain number of Wii games...or buying a certain number of Virtual Console games.

NOE gave out Wavebirds via the star catalogue during the early days but that stopped after a while, probably because MANY people accumulate enough stars to order these things and it just wasn't profitable anymore.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on June 09, 2006, 10:43:27 AM
Samurai Goroh should take Gdorf's old moveset, (or Machrider should, that'd be sweet)

Nintendo should 'let' Square put Cloud in SSBB in exchange for some FF lovin
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 09, 2006, 02:40:04 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
Nintendo should 'let' Square put Cloud in SSBB in exchange for some FF lovin


Problem is they said the characters have to have appeared on a Nintendo console before, and I don't think Cloud's tiny role in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories is much to go off of for that type of appeal.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on June 09, 2006, 03:30:00 PM
Quote

Kairon: I definately see Nintendo at LEAST bundling the Classic Controller in with Smash Brothers Brawl when it comes out. If the game requires a traditional controller Nintendo will at least provide one.
As Kairon mentioned, it would probably work just fine with the analogue attachment. Sakurai probably meant that you could  use the classic or GameCube controller if you want to, or if you find it more comfortable, because the game wouldn't be using the motion control.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on June 09, 2006, 03:32:16 PM
i was hoping for some cool motion controlls though oh well, i guess this will let my Wii hating friends play SSBB without complaining about having to move their arms or anything
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 09, 2006, 03:36:01 PM
You know who should be in there.  Strider from Capcom.  He be very much like Snake in that he's more "realistic" then the Nintendo characters and would be different but I can see him still fitting in.  His original games were on the NES so theres the link.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 09, 2006, 03:58:31 PM
Ceric:  Congrats on remembering another interesting classic character.  Strider was a really interesting character.  His original game was his best...but a Smash Revisit could be cool.  Specially with him hanging underneath platforms and such.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on June 09, 2006, 04:07:01 PM
I really want motion controls, and I hope that things are just as precise with the wiimote (I think Wavedashing and L cancelling will both be controlled on the nunchuck, jump w/ dpad, which may make SHFFLing a little harder..)

I'll probably end up using my smash controller ( I bought a cube controller specifically for smash; it's just easier that way)
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on June 09, 2006, 05:01:20 PM
For some reason, I just though of Diddy Kong swinging around throwing bananas and slapping faces.

On the control system: there are only a few elements of the game that could be implemented with motion sensoring. I'm talking about waving upwards for jumps, and left or right for a shortcut to A attacks. Many other parts of SSBB would be too complicated to use motion control.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on June 09, 2006, 05:04:45 PM
left or right would be short cuts for smashes, not a-attacks. a-attacks are supposed to happen quickly.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on June 09, 2006, 05:16:55 PM
Quote

On the control system: there are only a few elements of the game that could be implemented with motion censoring
Censoring obscene gestures?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Killer_Man_Jaro on June 09, 2006, 05:22:34 PM
Silence! I know what I meant.

Kairon: if A-attacks are meant to happen quickly, then you could move the Wiimote quickly. Smashes would be like a baseball hit.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 22, 2006, 01:24:52 AM
Ok.  I was on the Nintendo Smash Brothers boards and somebody mentioned a Pokemon that I think needs to replace Jigglypuff or be added in addition too.

Meowth.  This character would be a great villian character against Pikachu, and has a long history and character recognition because of his role in the cartoon show.  Furthermore, I believe alot of fun moves could be created for him.

But...to bring up more conversation and fun for Smash Brothers I pose 2 more questions:

1)What characters do you NOT want to see in Smash Brothers?  Lets limit it to Nintendo characters, and only potential 3rd party characters would likely make it the game.

2)What could Nintendo do to the original gameplay that would completely turn you off to Smash Brothers?


The second question for me is easy.  If Nintendo kept the game the same speed, and also complicated the game more by adding more moves, types of Smashes, and additionally complicated controls I would be turned off from the game.  I agree with Nintendo when they say the game needs to be made simplier from the Melee design.  I don't mean that moves should be lost, but the complexity of the game made Melee less fun than the original.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: SgtShiversBen on June 22, 2006, 03:14:40 AM
OH NO YOU DIDN'T SAY TO REPLACE JIGGLYPUFF!!!    I hate you if you are sincere.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 22, 2006, 03:18:05 AM
2) Cards.  Anything doing with Cards and actual gameplay.
1) The Whale Pokemon.  Any of the people from Delphino Island.  In fact most of the supporting cast in Mario, read as get killed.  Metriod.  I'm sure theres more.  Sodapopiski.

I do want the Eggplant Wizard in there.  I also like to see the guy from Quest 64 and his CinnamonBun of Power.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on June 22, 2006, 06:13:15 AM
Quote

1)What characters do you NOT want to see in Smash Brothers? Lets limit it to Nintendo characters, and only potential 3rd party characters would likely make it the game.
I'd be slightly upset if Birdo made the cut.  (S)he doesn't belong.  Neither does Ridley.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 22, 2006, 07:29:29 AM
1)

For me I don't want alot of support characters are becoming main characters in the game.  I would like strongly recognizable heros and then a villian for each universe.  Zelda/Gannondorf (or better Gannon) Mario/Bowser Star Fox/(Star Wolf)

I don't want every single character from Metroid in there.  I don't want tons of characters that really just don't belong.

I should make flash cards with the Mega Man bosses. Then when I have a kid, s/he'll go into kindergarten already knowing all the Robot Masters and which games they came from. - JonLeung

Vudu I love your quote.

Jon:  I would totally do this.  Two sets.  One for pictures and names.  Another Set which tells which weapons work for which robots.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 22, 2006, 07:56:33 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-SpangZelda/Gannondorf (or better Gannon)


Ganondorf > Ganon

Although in a perfect world, Ganondorf's special (or whatever they are calling the symbol moves) would be to transform into Ganon.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on June 22, 2006, 08:05:02 AM
Ganon/Ganondorf should be a Sheik/Zelda clone!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 22, 2006, 09:20:45 AM
I always figured Gannondorf and Ganon should be the same character, but his transformation takes place from the amount of damage he has taken.

Like if you are able to keep Gannondorf whom is a middle-heavy weight fighter/magician alive up till you have taken 150% damage he turns into Ganon.  A super heavy fighter in the vain of Bowser.  

It would make Gannondorf a very scary opponent, because giving him too much damage will actually beef him up and make him more dangerous.  

At the same time once he is Ganon he can grab hearts and such and stay as Ganon.  

This would allow us to have two characters in one.  Create a very unique fighter, and a very scary fighter to deal with in the realm of Smash Brothers.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on June 22, 2006, 11:47:04 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
1)

For me I don't want alot of support characters are becoming main characters in the game.  I would like strongly recognizable heros and then a villian for each universe.  Zelda/Gannondorf (or better Gannon) Mario/Bowser Star Fox/(Star Wolf)

I don't want every single character from Metroid in there.  I don't want tons of characters that really just don't belong.

I should make flash cards with the Mega Man bosses. Then when I have a kid, s/he'll go into kindergarten already knowing all the Robot Masters and which games they came from. - JonLeung

Vudu I love your quote.

Jon:  I would totally do this.  Two sets.  One for pictures and names.  Another Set which tells which weapons work for which robots.




#1 offense
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on June 22, 2006, 04:55:32 PM
Wow, is that Nintendo's "Do not dilute our trademark" website? Getting angry over a freaking article? WTF?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 23, 2006, 02:07:41 AM
Technically, I was referancing my memory of the original Zelda Title Screen which the author himself says referencing that is ok.  (Though he should probably say you get a warning.)

So I do not believe I am a noob that should get gannon-banned for remembering a spell which was Nintendo's original mistake.

So I will settle for a Gannon-Warning instead.  

But thank you for playing.

I do like how you went through all that time to put up the link for a joke...yet nobody has commented on my idea.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on June 23, 2006, 06:02:05 AM
Quote

8. Claiming their is a Fourth Triforce Piece in the official series:
I think misspelling there is a bigger offense than misspelling Moblin.  But that's just me.

Also, calling Link Zelda should be number one.  No question about it.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 23, 2006, 06:14:21 AM
Yes that is an interesting idea.  Ganon is fat and not very mobile.  Should do original pig Ganon.  In fact when you smash out you should be a pig when they show you coming towards the screen.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 23, 2006, 09:14:40 AM
Ganon should be the slowest charactor in the game if he's in.  I mean so slow that if he's running he'd be moving at the same speed as Bowsers normal walk.  But his advantage would be his A attacks with his trident would have a longer range then any other weapon on the game, plus he could create his fire bats for a great long range attack.

This would be a great way to balance him out.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 23, 2006, 09:21:42 AM
Luigi Dude:  Interesting.  I still picture Bowser being the slowest, and the ulimate beat stick.  

I want Ganon to be a close second, though.  His Trident would be great.  I would love to see him be able to Throw the Trident like a boomerang, and have another special where you can throw it actually control the direction it goes much like NES can.  However, you can also do the command again and warp to where ever the Trident is an catch it.

I think another cool move would be to see him engulfed in a firey flame shaped like a bat or something.  Or that could be his super special...and Bats could be seeking projectiles, and can be swatted away to go mess with another combatant.

 
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 23, 2006, 07:36:02 PM
The Trident boomerang would be a great idea.  I think a good moveset for Ganon could go like this.

B (Fire Bats)  For this move he'll spin his Trident and Fire Bats will start appearing.  The longer you hold B the more bats will appear and when you release B they'll go flying around in the direction your facing.

Forward B (Trident Boomerang)

Up B (Bat Transformation)  His ability to turn into some type of bat would work great for a third jump.

Hmm, the only thing I cant quite think of is what a good Down B move would be.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 24, 2006, 05:47:04 PM
Ok. "Trident Boomerang"  Wheres the basis for that?  Last time I checked Tridents where just thrown or used for stabbing.  The only way they be coming back is by magic will, walking over and picking it up, or bring it back by a chain.  Then it be straight back.  No boomeranging effect.  This looks like typecasting to me.  Since he's from the Zelda universe he must have some variation of everyone's favorite weapon.  But I might not have gotten to that form of Ganon.  Also three words Magical Ball stuffy.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 24, 2006, 06:06:34 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
Ok. "Trident Boomerang"  Wheres the basis for that?


Someone needs to beat A Link to the Past...

Anyway, if Ganondorf was going to change into Ganon at all, I would prefer it to be his "Ocarina form" just to keep the character uniform.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on June 24, 2006, 06:21:15 PM
Oh dear, a Zelda newbie...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on June 24, 2006, 07:40:59 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Oh dear, a Zelda newbie...


MUAHAHAHAHAHA! ...fresh meat...

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 25, 2006, 01:59:03 AM
Ok I'm on the last dungeon of A Link to the Past and never beat it because I found it too annoying.   Sort of like I never beat the Adventure of Link (That was the one without the plural right?).  I got to Death Mountian, die or I get through and die.  Have to go back through all of it because the game is slightly broken.  It says in the original Nintendo manual, at least my version, clear as day that you are suppose to start from the last castle you beat when you start a save game.  I always ended up starting at the original starting point and having to backtrack through everything to get where I was at.  It was royally annoying so I didn't beat that one either.  Actually now that I'm thinking about it.  I didn't beat Wind Waker either because of the stupid sea travel.  Love everything about the game except for anything to do with traveling on water.  I sat down after not beating the game and went "I'm going to beat it this time"  I made it through a good chunk and then it goes "Now go wonder the ocean and find the Triforce peices"  No thank you.

I like games but I don't seem to have any drive to finish them.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on June 25, 2006, 03:37:17 AM
It says in the original Nintendo manual, at least my version, clear as day that you are suppose to start from the last castle you beat when you start a save game.

The GBA version manual corrects this: You restart from the beginning unless you are at the last temple.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 25, 2006, 04:02:19 AM
I was hoping the GBA version would had corrected the issue and let me start at the last castle I beat.  Darn.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on June 25, 2006, 04:37:36 AM
The restart situation is one of the biggest reasons I think many old games suck. AoL would have been much more fun had it been made with today's advances in gameplay (better restarting, better combat, less monotony in random encounters, less "find the hidden tile", etc). That's why I'm hoping for a "remake" in the vein of Zero Mission. ZM did a good job of making a pretty sucky game fun.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 25, 2006, 05:36:09 AM
Yeah, like Wind Waker, I really actual enjoyed all the other expects of the game, ok with Wind Waker it was the stupid sea.  A few fixes and I buy a remake.  Full price.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: R3ronaldo on June 25, 2006, 11:05:41 AM
Nintendo should join up with a bunch of companies and make the ultimate smash bros. game.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on June 25, 2006, 01:17:01 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Technically, I was referancing my memory of the original Zelda Title Screen which the author himself says referencing that is ok.  (Though he should probably say you get a warning.)

So I do not believe I am a noob that should get gannon-banned for remembering a spell which was Nintendo's original mistake.

So I will settle for a Gannon-Warning instead.  

But thank you for playing.

I do like how you went through all that time to put up the link for a joke...yet nobody has commented on my idea.



it was only a joke lol. i've had that site bookmarked for awhile because i have a friend who breaks every offense listed there whenever we talk about zelda. i "gannon-banned" him a few minutes before i read your post so it was in my head.

and your idea was great by the way. i really feel that the fire bats should be the characters special move, the one gained by grabbing the Smash (logo) item. i can just picture the screen fad to black, as well as ganon (only showing his eyes) and hundreds of firey bats rushing towards every oponent.

and the boomerang-tridet move would be a cool teleportation move. it should have to be on the slow side though as ganon has to throw it in a direction then warp to it. this would add to the difficulty of playing as this altered form. it could very well be an up+B move that is direction (like the "fire fox" move).
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on June 25, 2006, 01:21:06 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
Ok I'm on the last dungeon of A Link to the Past and never beat it because I found it too annoying.   Sort of like I never beat the Adventure of Link (That was the one without the plural right?).  I got to Death Mountian, die or I get through and die.  Have to go back through all of it because the game is slightly broken.  It says in the original Nintendo manual, at least my version, clear as day that you are suppose to start from the last castle you beat when you start a save game.  I always ended up starting at the original starting point and having to backtrack through everything to get where I was at.  It was royally annoying so I didn't beat that one either.  Actually now that I'm thinking about it.  I didn't beat Wind Waker either because of the stupid sea travel.  Love everything about the game except for anything to do with traveling on water.  I sat down after not beating the game and went "I'm going to beat it this time"  I made it through a good chunk and then it goes "Now go wonder the ocean and find the Triforce peices"  No thank you.

I like games but I don't seem to have any drive to finish them.


its ok dude, i was on the same boat ;-)

i got ALttP back when i was in the 6th grade i believe but i didnt beat it for another few years becuase of this one specific room in turtle rock dungeon. its on early one, with the four torches that need to be lit while riding the platform. for some reason back then i just couldnt figure out the best path to ignite the torches and reach the door before the time limit, so i gave up. then later (years later) when i tried again, and succeeded, it was a breeze.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on June 25, 2006, 10:37:36 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: EasyCure
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
1)

For me I don't want alot of support characters are becoming main characters in the game.  I would like strongly recognizable heros and then a villian for each universe.  Zelda/Gannondorf (or better Gannon) Mario/Bowser Star Fox/(Star Wolf)

I don't want every single character from Metroid in there.  I don't want tons of characters that really just don't belong.

I should make flash cards with the Mega Man bosses. Then when I have a kid, s/he'll go into kindergarten already knowing all the Robot Masters and which games they came from. - JonLeung

Vudu I love your quote.

Jon:  I would totally do this.  Two sets.  One for pictures and names.  Another Set which tells which weapons work for which robots.




#1 offense


Pfft. I think it's a safe assumption that "Ganon" is a transliteration from Hylian, in which case, both "Ganon" and "Gannon" are probably correct.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 26, 2006, 04:04:51 AM
So Ganon must now be refered as "The One Who's Name Cannot Be Typed"  for I have yet to find a Hylian font. (Now that I've said that I'm sure someone will link one.)
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 27, 2006, 09:01:32 AM
I actually thought of something else I don't want to see have to Smash Brothers.  It isn't bad enough to get me to stop buying the game, but I believe it will hurt the experience...and has a potential of happening.

Too many characters that are TOO similar.

Melee contained clones which were rather uneventful characters to unlock.

However, something else more horrible could happen.  Original characters that all play so similar in structure that it doesn't really matter who you pick.

Everyone is wanting every single Nintendo character they can think of in the game...but I believe a character should only be included if it can truly add something to the game.  

Some characters need to be unique and exciting boss battles (Ridley)

Other characters need to be axed because they would be too similar to exciting characters.  (Star Worf could be an example.)

While still some very unlikely characters need to be added because of very unique gameplay mechanics.  

Olimar is a great example.

And yet, some characters I am worried about their inclusion until Nintendo proves they will play differently than other characters...Pit, MetaKnight examples.

Don't get me wrong. I love the inclusion of the above mentioned characters...I just hope that the design team works hard to make them unique and play differently than all the other characters.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Deguello on June 27, 2006, 09:06:39 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: wandering
Quote

Originally posted by: EasyCure
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
1)

For me I don't want alot of support characters are becoming main characters in the game.  I would like strongly recognizable heros and then a villian for each universe.  Zelda/Gannondorf (or better Gannon) Mario/Bowser Star Fox/(Star Wolf)

I don't want every single character from Metroid in there.  I don't want tons of characters that really just don't belong.

I should make flash cards with the Mega Man bosses. Then when I have a kid, s/he'll go into kindergarten already knowing all the Robot Masters and which games they came from. - JonLeung

Vudu I love your quote.

Jon:  I would totally do this.  Two sets.  One for pictures and names.  Another Set which tells which weapons work for which robots.




#1 offense


Pfft. I think it's a safe assumption that "Ganon" is a transliteration from Hylian, in which case, both "Ganon" and "Gannon" are probably correct.




From the site:  "Merry Christmas, n00bs!"

LOL!!!  Why is that so funny?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: nickmitch on June 27, 2006, 09:26:09 AM
Quote

8. Claiming their is a Fourth Triforce Piece in the official series:


Missuse of "there," "their," and '"they're": Grammer-banned!!  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 27, 2006, 09:34:10 AM
Easycure:

Well there is two different ways to do the Trident teleportation move.  One is more complicated, but much cooler.  The other is easier, but could still allow interesting strategy.

1) Ganon controls the Trident:  Once thrown the player continues to hold down the special button and directs the Trident where to go.  As this is going on Ganon is vunerable to take damage, but it doesn not knock him around, or ends the trident attack.  Once the button is let go, Ganon will teleport right in front of the Trident and catches it.

2) Ganon has a predetermined throw.  I picture something between the Link Boomerang, with a more circular Arc.  How far you push the control stick forward when you trigger the attack deterimines the arc and distance.  If you let go of the special button then you just throw your trident.  If you hold it, after a short charge (1-2 seconds) you can let go and transport over.  This makes the attack able to have a bluff to it...and such.

I just thought of two other means of doing the move.

3) It doesn't act like a boomerang and just goes straight forward.  Press B, starts the attack and then before throwing the trident point a direction to send it flying.  Press B again to transport and catch it.

4)The easiest means of doing it.  Throw the Trident, and if it hits somebody, it stuns them and Ganon is transported to the Trident to continue with a second attack.  

Basically all these moves are designed to be quicker than his normal movement.  It is a means to compensate for his slowness and allow him to get away from danger or more likely pursue those fleeing their demise

I understood it was a joke by the way...I just wanted to defend my case.  I don't want to have a gannon ban against me...if I don't have to.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 27, 2006, 12:56:35 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I actually thought of something else I don't want to see have to Smash Brothers.  It isn't bad enough to get me to stop buying the game, but I believe it will hurt the experience...and has a potential of happening.

Too many characters that are TOO similar.

Melee contained clones which were rather uneventful characters to unlock.

However, something else more horrible could happen.  Original characters that all play so similar in structure that it doesn't really matter who you pick.

Everyone is wanting every single Nintendo character they can think of in the game...but I believe a character should only be included if it can truly add something to the game.  

Some characters need to be unique and exciting boss battles (Ridley)

Other characters need to be axed because they would be too similar to exciting characters.  (Star Worf could be an example.)

While still some very unlikely characters need to be added because of very unique gameplay mechanics.  

Olimar is a great example.

And yet, some characters I am worried about their inclusion until Nintendo proves they will play differently than other characters...Pit, MetaKnight examples.

Don't get me wrong. I love the inclusion of the above mentioned characters...I just hope that the design team works hard to make them unique and play differently than all the other characters.


I dont think we'll have to worry to much since Brawl will have a longer development time then Melee had.  As we've seen with the games Sakurai's made, he's very talented and with a long development time he and his team should be able to make most of the charactors unique.  Plus the fact Sakurai has said they'll be reworking the existing charactors from Melee when they appear in Brawl, I think it's safe to say he's working very hard on this issue.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on June 27, 2006, 01:29:57 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
So Ganon must now be refered as "The One Who's Name Cannot Be Typed"  for I have yet to find a Hylian font. (Now that I've said that I'm sure someone will link one.)


or we should all just come up with a nameless symbol that represents ganon and call him "the villian formely known as Ganon".

it should consist of a trident, an eye, and a bat or so. i'll start working on Paint immidiately!

and to Spak Spang: even if i were the Gannon-Banned authority, i would not Gannon-Ban you; you're ideas are just too good.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: stevey on June 27, 2006, 02:03:39 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: EasyCure
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
So Ganon must now be refered as "The One Who's Name Cannot Be Typed"  for I have yet to find a Hylian font. (Now that I've said that I'm sure someone will link one.)


or we should all just come up with a nameless symbol that represents ganon and call him "the villian formely known as Ganon".

it should consist of a trident, an eye, and a bat or so. i'll start working on Paint immidiately!

and to Spak Spang: even if i were the Gannon-Banned authority, i would not Gannon-Ban you; you're ideas are just too good.


[/ spoiler] (no space) Is this good enough  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2006, 02:13:08 PM
I ran into this while trying to make the symbol of ganon.


Top 10 Reason Link Doesn't wear Pants
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on June 27, 2006, 04:15:38 PM
Quote

[/ spoiler] (no space) Is this good enough
Hahaha, finally I can do something to trump stevey in terms of the forum.

This is how you do it..

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Khushrenada on June 27, 2006, 04:19:48 PM
In the new issue of Nintendo Power, in the letters section, called Pulse, they have a bunch of letters about who should be in the game. Interestingly, at the end NP makes a joke about John Madden being a character in the game. NP must come to our boards a lot.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 27, 2006, 04:52:26 PM


This sort of came about when I was trying to make the symbol for the Character Formerly Known As Ganon (or is "He Who Cannot Be Typed"?)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on June 27, 2006, 06:43:37 PM
I want Bill Cosby in SSBB.

He knows the kids today play the pokeyman.

AUGH AUGH HAW HA HA WAH HA  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2006, 01:54:04 AM
I find Nintendo Power interesting.  Obviously the writers are just average Nintendo fans whom landed a great job working for Nintendo because of their writing abilities.

People expect them to have inside knowledge and resources because it is technically an official Nintendo produced Magazine.  However, they either don't and are run completely independently or Nintendo forces them to keep their mouths shut about what they see.

But so often, they just sound like us.  Their list of characters desired for the game is basically a fanboys wet dream.  

By the way, I still want John Madden commentary.  I think it would be a boost like no other.  3-4 hours of record Maddenisms about Smash Brothers would be heaven.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 28, 2006, 02:29:38 AM
Optional John Madden Commentary.  In fact optional Commentary at all.  Sometimes I would find commentary from different characters amusing.  Other times it would just be distracting me from what's important. (Smashing the snot out of the other guy.)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2006, 05:51:18 AM
Definately the commentary should be optional.  Though, you know it will never happen.  

1)Commentary is mostly an American thing...and John Madden won't sound appealing to anyone but us.

2)Brawl seems to be moving into a more sophosticated direction in terms of gameplay, and immersion.  The full orchestra music, Opera openning theme.  It appears the designers want this game to be a true Opus to all things Nintendo and classic gaming...Commentary of any kind just wouldn't fit in this.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 28, 2006, 05:57:56 AM
I think that's going to be a problem now that you put it that way, #2.  I always felt that the series as a whole was lighthearted.  Very much so.  That was a lot of its charm for me.  I was sort of worried about that when I saw the trailer and then I saw the Snake bit and it was hidden for a good while but, I can't help shake the feeling that it's going to go Serious like all the other fighting games of recent.  I don't want a serious fighter.  That's something I'm not interested in.  Fully orchestrated can work fine but I don't want something tragic and I don't want it to turn to a more realistic feel, how weird does that sound...  Thinking about the trailer now everything was notably darker.  Which tends to mean more moody.  As it stands I think I'm at the wait and see stage now.

Edit:  Just looking at the count.  If we combined the Post count with this threads previous incarnation we got somewhere near 1000 posts.  Does that break any forum records?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2006, 06:06:24 AM
Ceric:  Well don't forget it is still Smash Brothers.  When I say Grander Atmosphere...I don't think it is going to be serious, mature, or anything like that.

I just believe they are really upping the production values of this thing.  Full Orechstra music, slowed down pace of the game, and perhaps much better sound production for all the effects.

It will still have a whimsical feel though.  Just look towards Wario's special move, and how they handled Solid Snake being in the game.  They took a serious character and was making jokes about him and being in Smash Brothers.

I just don't see the move to commentaries and other items like that.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on June 28, 2006, 07:14:33 AM
I don't see how commentary is an american thing.

They took a serious character and was making jokes about him and being in Smash Brothers.

First Rule of Konami: Konami is never serious.
Second Rule of Konami: Up Up Down Down Left Right Left Right B A
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2006, 07:47:24 AM
KDR:  Perhaps.  

But, I think the Konami code is the first rule.  I love that code.  I would put that code in every single game I created, if I created games.  It is just absolute brilliant oldskool fun.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 28, 2006, 08:36:55 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
I don't see how commentary is an american thing.


Ya rly.

"GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!"

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MaryJane on June 28, 2006, 09:31:02 AM
I want the guy in my pic to be a character.

It'd be cool to watch his muscles bend and blood flow during special moves... cuz he's skinless.

Other than that... Stewie Griffin.

Better yet, all the Family Guy characters.

Pardon my tardiness if already said.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on June 29, 2006, 06:52:47 AM
Your tardiness has been pardoned.  You idiotic suggestions have not.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on June 29, 2006, 07:14:01 AM
All the Family Guy charachters?!

Even Meg?!

Meg Griffin?!

The worst character on the show, Meg Griffin?!

The character that even the shows' writers make fun of, Meg Griffin?!

The voice of whom is played by that annoying chick from "That 70's show", Meg Griffin?!




Respect -1  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 29, 2006, 07:42:22 AM
You know I have to say Meg doesn't get a fair rub.  I think she's relatively attractive.  Especially compared to any character on American Dad.  Her leaving that house will be the best thing for her.  Though if think any of the Family guy people made it in then I want to see Transformers, Gi Joes, Ninja Turtles, etc.   They have games on the all the systems for the most part.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on June 29, 2006, 07:49:07 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
You know I have to say Meg doesn't get a fair rub.  I think she's relatively attractive.


Spoilers: Ceric looks up Meg hentai.

:-P

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on June 29, 2006, 08:03:33 AM
Capital Idea.  I'll just go and snip off a sec. That belongs in the funhouse right
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MaryJane on June 29, 2006, 10:21:18 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Requiem
All the Family Guy charachters?!

Even Meg?!

Meg Griffin?!

The worst character on the show, Meg Griffin?!

The character that even the shows' writers make fun of, Meg Griffin?!

The voice of whom is played by that annoying chick from "That 70's show", Meg Griffin?!




Respect -1


Wouldn't all that just make it more fun to beat her up? And the chick from That 70's show (Mila Kunis) while annoying is pretty friggin hot... very unlike Meg. I'd like to use Quagmire to fight also, I wonder what his special move would be... gigiddy
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Edfishy on June 29, 2006, 01:45:20 PM
I honestly think Earth Worm Jim would steal the show as a Smash Bros. character.  The character has so much depth, animation, and just plain pizzaz I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't want to play as ol' Jim.

Edit:



I mean, come on, tell me that isn't a cool character to play as.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 29, 2006, 03:26:05 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
I think that's going to be a problem now that you put it that way, #2.  I always felt that the series as a whole was lighthearted.  Very much so.  That was a lot of its charm for me.


I imagine it will be a lot like Melee: lighthearted and serious depending on where you are in the game. I mean, it has a Nintendog as a item... how serious is that?

Quote

Originally posted by: Edfishy
I honestly think Earth Worm Jim would steal the show as a Smash Bros. character.  The character has so much depth, animation, and just plain pizzaz I can't imagine anyone who wouldn't want to play as ol' Jim.


Oh, go back to playing Clay Fighters :P
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on June 29, 2006, 03:52:29 PM
BOOGERMAN FOR SSBB!!!!!!11!!!!!11111!!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 30, 2006, 04:35:02 AM
Nice Reference.  With Clay Fighter.  Wasn't Earthworm Jim in a special Blockbuster only edition of ClayFighter 2 or something?

The original game had its flaws, but the animation and overall concept of the game was very solid.  Much more interesting and creative than say Mortal Kombat ever was.

I just wish the gameplay was more polished.

Earthworm Jim would be a great character for Smash Brothers, yet the character's popularity is pretty much dead.  Most people don't remember who he is...and its quite sad that they let that character die.

I also question how well the game did in other territories.  Because I have a feeling any 3rd party character added must be popular in all territories to get considered.

Which is why I believe the design team is very limited to 3rd party characters which could be added to the game.

The most general list would include:

Bomberman,
Sonic,
Mega Man,
Simon Belmont,
Cloud (from Final Fantasy except he was never on a Nintendo platform.)

There may be a few others, but worldwide instant recogniztion is pretty rare, beyond the classics.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 30, 2006, 05:12:44 AM
I have been trying to figure out how to design Bomberman for Smash Brothers, and make him unique and interesting.

Here is what I have come up with.

Bomberman:  

His special moves are mostly based around Bomb attacks.  Yet his regular attacks still include traditional punches and kicks.  

His Special moves allow him to use many different bombs from his arsenal.

B:  Bomberman drops a bomb on the ground.  This bomb has a fuse of a few seconds, and it then explodes making a trail of fire along the bottom of the screen in typical Bomberman tradition.  

Bomberman can pick up these bombs by pressing A next them and as he holds them they get bigger and form a stronger blast.  If he holds them long enough he will create a dangerous Bomb that has a Circular Radius that even travels through objects.  Bomberman can also kick these bombs towards opponents.  Note:  No other character can pickup Bomberman's bombs or kick them.  Bomberman can get hurt by the blasts of bombs, but he has a resistance that allows it to do less damage to him.

Down B:  Land Mine:  These recently added Bomberman specials would act like the remote detotation devices in Smash Brothers, yet they will have less Smash Effect.  Bomberman can't pick these up and he himself and once armed they can hurt him just as much as anyone else.

Forward B: Detotator Bomb:  These classic Bombs are the most dangerous arsenal Bomberman has.  Bomberman can only lay one of these at a time, but once on the battle field he can trigger it at anytime.  Allowing for a chain of bombs to blow up, or a well placed blast to send Smashed Opponents flying.

Up B:  Bomberman has a nice Bomb Jump move that when timed with a short fuse bomb will propel him in the air.  This move Drops a bomb underneath Bomberman which he pushes off of to reach higher heights.  The bomb explodes a circular radius downward, but the force also propels Bomberman up into the air.  

Bomberman requires a bit of finesse to use, as his special moves are powerful but require a great deal of timing.  

In Smash Brothers, Kicked or thrown bombs will explode upon impact of something.  

Bomberman also has a special ability no other character has.  He can pickup Bob-Bombs infinitely and they will not blowup on him.  He can also Bomb jump off placed bombs and not explode them.

His regular hand to hand combat is not very strong.  His Smash attacks are rather weak in comparison.  His best bet is to catch people off guard and send them flying with his bombs.  A character with great weakness in close combat, yet ranged combat can be quite dangerous.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 30, 2006, 05:25:27 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Nice Reference.  With Clay Fighter.  Wasn't Earthworm Jim in a special Blockbuster only edition of ClayFighter 2 or something?


He was in Clay Fighters 63 1/3, both the regular and rental editions.

Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Cloud (from Final Fantasy except he was never on a Nintendo platform.)


He was in Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, but like I said else where that was probably too small a role to count.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Athrun Zala on June 30, 2006, 06:12:11 AM
spak, the only thing I would change is the Down-B to a Bomb Kick (bomb appears and he kicks it forward, blows up on impact) as it's classic Bomberman and great to catch people off guard
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 30, 2006, 06:43:48 AM
Athrun:  Read my describtion of the normal bombs.  You can pick those up or run into them kick them already.  I had already thought of that...and it is classic Bomberman.

That and the Detotate Bomb.

I also thought, his special could be the Line Bomb attack.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 30, 2006, 08:31:16 AM
Considering Hudson is working with Nintendo to bring TurboGrafx/PC-Engine games to the Virtual Console, Bomberman has a very good chance to make it.

When Sakurai says 1-2 more most people think Sonic and Megaman, but when you think about it, Sonic and Bomberman would be more likely since Sega and Hudson are both involved with the Virtual Console.  Plus since Konami owns Hudson it would make the perfect connection between all the third party charactors.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Edfishy on June 30, 2006, 02:27:27 PM
Quote

Earthworm Jim would be a great character for Smash Brothers, yet the character's popularity is pretty much dead.  Most people don't remember who he is...and its quite sad that they let that character die.


Just like Mr. Game & Watch and Marth and Roy, which very few Americans had any knowledge of where they were from, Earth Worm Jim could make a comeback by being included in one of the most popular fighting games of today.  I personally would rather see Jim than Wario or Megaman, and maybe even Sonic.  But not more than Tails, I really want to see Tails in SSBB
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 30, 2006, 02:55:22 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Edfishy
Just like Mr. Game & Watch and Marth and Roy, which very few Americans had any knowledge of where they were from, Earth Worm Jim could make a comeback by being included in one of the most popular fighting games of today.


You can't even begin to compare Game & Watch to Earthworm Jim as his inclusion as the secret character had more to do with the history of Nintendo then popularity, and he is a first party character. Let's just be frank, Nintendo is not going to go to Interplay with the plan to fill one of the 2-3 third party character slots with someone whose franchise is dead today.

Would his appearance in SSBB give his character a increase in popularity? Yes. Is Nintendo's aim to ressurect third party franchises? No.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on June 30, 2006, 06:23:00 PM
Let's just be frank, Nintendo is not going to go to Interplay with the plan to fill one of the 2-3 third party character slots with someone whose franchise is dead today.

That'd be difficult anyway since Interplay is dead. I think Shiny got the rights to EWJ back (or kept them in first place?)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nephilim on June 30, 2006, 06:53:57 PM
Earthworm Jim is being re-released on PSP, why would it be on Wii? (and why would anyone want it)
Gex is a cooler character then EWJ

If anything, Rockman exe would be a good choice, hes 100% nintendo exclusive (ignoring the wonderswan game)  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on June 30, 2006, 06:57:59 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
That'd be difficult anyway since Interplay is dead. I think Shiny got the rights to EWJ back (or kept them in first place?)


I thought I had heard about that as well, but IGN doesn't mention it at all and the Interplay site is still up (regardless of how awful it looks):

http://games.ign.com/objects/025/025034.html

From the sounds of it, Interplay is still around, although they are caught up in a heaping pile of legal troubles at the moment (regardless, it appears that they wouldn't be in the possition to give out the EWJ rights anyway).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 01, 2006, 01:31:36 AM
Ha.

I have said it once, and I will say it again.

The list of 3rd party characters will be:

Mega Man
Bomberman
Sonic
Snake

That is it.  Period...and they will be like the last characters you unlock (if they need unlocking.)

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 01, 2006, 05:23:37 AM
Ax Sonic.  I hate to say this but Bomberman shows up on all the platforms and has good roots with Nintendo.  Same with  Megaman but less platforms still solid roots.  Snake is iffy but I'm sure there was more then just begging going on.  

Sonic on the other hand is well Sonic.  There is too much brand recognition tied to him.  Sega is still associated with hardware even though they no longer make it.  Introducing Sonic would only raise more problems then it's worth.  If you did Sonic why not Knuckles?  Or Tails?  Or Vector-Man? or <Insert notable Sega game character that people have been itching to fight together with Nintendo >  Sonic has always been preceived as the Anti-Mario.  If they touch the world would end.  Intense rivals in a way.  Incompatible in others.  Those other you mentioned has roots to the "Retro Age"  and those are with Nintendo.  Sonic Decidedly not so.

I encourage the inclusion of Bomberman.  Not so much of either Megaman or Sonic.  (I like Megaman a lot and Sonic a fair amount.)  I rather see Simon Belmont instead.  A Konami character with strong brand recognition with no System association.  Good solid NES-SNES roots and good current Nintendo support.  A lot of slack to play with in terms of moves and design, if based off of Castlevaine(sp? Tired) 3 you could be getting 4 characters for one.  Also giving this more thought then I should, I think what would be best is to find something that was popular and nostalgic in each one of the Generations on Nintendo platforms that just didn't stand the test of time.

These are all my opinions and the design team will do what they want but they are treading a fine line especially because we want the cast of millions that feels like the cast of few.  Videogame share some common things but we all have are favorite characters for different reasons.

Ceric's popularity -6
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 01, 2006, 08:33:13 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang

That is it.  Period...and they will be like the last characters you unlock (if they need unlocking.)


Sakurai said in one of his responses on the Japanese website that since 3rd party charactors are guests, they will need to be unlocked.

Even though with Melee, Nintendo didn't offically start revealing secret charactors until the game was released, I get the feeling they'll revealed Sonic is in the game sometime before it's release just to get the videogame world going crazy and create even more hype.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Edfishy on July 01, 2006, 01:46:54 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: DeadlyD
Earthworm Jim is being re-released on PSP, why would it be on Wii? (and why would anyone want it)
Gex is a cooler character then EWJ


Um, that's like saying Solid Snake is on the PlayStation 3, why would anyone want Metal Gear Solid on the Wii?

Gex may be "cooler", but his character has far less depth and is a bit too static.  What makes Gex cool are the little sarcastic comments he makes, not the zany actions that he does.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on July 01, 2006, 05:24:14 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
Ax Sonic.  I hate to say this but Bomberman shows up on all the platforms and has good roots with Nintendo.  Same with  Megaman but less platforms still solid roots.  Snake is iffy but I'm sure there was more then just begging going on.  

Sonic on the other hand is well Sonic.  There is too much brand recognition tied to him.  Sega is still associated with hardware even though they no longer make it.  Introducing Sonic would only raise more problems then it's worth.  If you did Sonic why not Knuckles?  Or Tails?  Or Vector-Man? or <Insert notable Sega game character that people have been itching to fight together with Nintendo >  Sonic has always been preceived as the Anti-Mario.  If they touch the world would end.  Intense rivals in a way.  Incompatible in others.  Those other you mentioned has roots to the "Retro Age"  and those are with Nintendo.  Sonic Decidedly not so.

I encourage the inclusion of Bomberman.  Not so much of either Megaman or Sonic.  (I like Megaman a lot and Sonic a fair amount.)  I rather see Simon Belmont instead.  A Konami character with strong brand recognition with no System association.  Good solid NES-SNES roots and good current Nintendo support.  A lot of slack to play with in terms of moves and design, if based off of Castlevaine(sp? Tired) 3 you could be getting 4 characters for one.  Also giving this more thought then I should, I think what would be best is to find something that was popular and nostalgic in each one of the Generations on Nintendo platforms that just didn't stand the test of time.

These are all my opinions and the design team will do what they want but they are treading a fine line especially because we want the cast of millions that feels like the cast of few.  Videogame share some common things but we all have are favorite characters for different reasons.

Ceric's popularity -6


i agree completely, though i'd prefer megaman over simon belmont (but wouldnt be disapointed if her made it into the game

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 02, 2006, 06:05:43 AM
Ceric:  I completely agree I hate the inclusion of Sonic.  I have the hardest time actually thinking of cool moves for him in this franchise.  

You have a spinning upward jump...a charge across the ground...and what else?

Also Sonic is supposed to be super fast...faster than Pikachu, Captain Falcon and the likes...yet to he will have to be slowed down alot to make sense.  I would just rather not have him in the game.

However, you know he is going to be in the game.  For the very reason that it is so iconic to have Nintendo vs. Sega in a real game.  It is literally a fan boys dream come true.

The problem I have with Simon Belmont is that the more recent Castlevania games don't use Simon, but descents of the Belmont clan.  In fact, in some of the most recent games Belmont is actually an after thought...and not the main focus of the game.  

Simon Belmont does have one thing going for him.  You can make a very nice fighter out of him.  Holy Water across the ground.  Arcing Axe throws, and the classic Cross boomerang would be a blast in this game.  His Charged Super could even be the stop time power.  

I just don't see Simon Belmont and two Konami characters getting introduced when you have a few other more classic characters.

Mega Man is a perfect classic character.  He has close to the same number of sequels as Mario (not counting spinoffs) and he has a huge history as a Nintendo character, and character recognition around the world.  Something I don't think Simon Belmont would have.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 02, 2006, 06:39:25 AM
Well, Nintendo already has a deal going with Konami so they could get a second Konami char more easily than e.g. Megaman. Konami considers Simon Belmont the representative character of Castlevania and Cv was one of the defining games of the NES.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 02, 2006, 07:56:11 AM
First off Spak-Spang you know I respect your opinion.  But I think the weakness you mention on Simon Belmont are actually his strengths.  To a younger gamer, post SNES, Simon is a relative unknown.  To us "older" gamers he IS the defining hero of the series.  Everyone else is just a spinoff.  He may not have world wide recognition but neither did the Ice-Climbers or Roy.  I think he has enough recognition with the people doing the reviews and with us "Older" Gamers to really cause a stir from his participation.  It be one of those cool facts for the newer people that he started it all and they may want the VC game for it, actually I want to say something about that later on in this post.  Castlevania is still a big franchise.  Also making a move set for him, a cool move set at that, would be, like you said, like taking candy from a baby.  That can't be said for either Sonic, as been discussed, or Megaman, ironically later X be an easier fit but a terrible idea.  Also new Megaman looks way to tiku tiku tiku!  compared to NES Megaman.

Just thinking back.  I don't think we batted around the idea of the trophies obtained from each player and item and like could link them to the VC game that they were in.  "Jeez, Mr. Saturn looks cool.  I wonder what the game was like and what he did." Clicks link to Earthbound and gets Earthbound.  Great advertisement and a handy feature for us lazy people.  I know that we thought about some other ties though.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on July 02, 2006, 10:16:53 AM
you know someone is going to bump the "what do you want in smash revolution" thread and try to take credit for a similar idea.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 02, 2006, 11:35:58 AM
Yeah, I can't remember if this was talked about or not and that, and this, is a pretty monstrouse thread to go back to for so little gain.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on July 02, 2006, 03:54:36 PM
indeed.

i remember making a suggestion of having the actual carts the games came on as trophies, as well as an NES trophy (which would be ultra rare/ near impossible to get) which would unlock a bonus feature that let you play them on Wii.

the cart trophies themselves could also be pretty hard to come by (depending on your skill atleast). remember how in SSBM each character had 3 trophies? the third of which being the SMASH trophy won by completing the all-star mode? how about getting a trophy of that characters most famous game? since there would be millions that would opt for this way of getting the game rather than paying for a straight download, there could be a certain criteria to meet before the game just gives it to you (via wiiconnect24?).

i've thought about having SNES or even N64 carts as trophies but i think having the NES games won would be better. not only would it please the crowd of older gamers who remember those games but it would teach the younger crowd history about their favorite charactesr; more so than a blurb a paragraph long would. the original game would be the way to go.

for characters such as luigi, peach, yoshi, bowser and even wario, who all appear in the same series, they could make it so each unlocks a different game. for instance beating and all-star type mode with mario would no doubt unlock the Super Mario Bros. trophy, so instead of having five or so copies of that trohphy, luigi could unlock the original Mario Bros. Peach could unlock Super Mario Bros. 2 (first game she was playable in), Bowser could unlock Super Mario Bros. 3 and yoshi could unlock Yoshi's Cookie.

wait, it just hit me that a character like Captain Falcon got his start on SNES (unless there was on f-zero on famicom). I guess instead of an NES trophy, a Wii trophy (which would be in the game anyway, if trophies make a come back to begin with that is) could be the ultra rare trophy that unlocks the games as downloads. that way you could have all the cart trophies for every character but wouldnt unlock the actual download to VC without the Wii trophy. that trophy would then become a link to VC and allow you to play the library you collected on smash as prizes, as well as every other game you d/led.

or is that too complicated?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 03, 2006, 01:18:50 AM
I can already imagine that: "Helirin. Sounds interesting. I'll just grab that Kururin game there and... 'We are sorry, this game is not available in your region'???"

Easycure: I think that might cause problems with Action Replay cheating.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Tanookisuit on July 03, 2006, 02:56:53 AM
I think it would be cool if, instead of unlocking a game, you could unlock new character sprites for old games, like a custom sprite for each character for Super Mario Brothers.  How fun would that be?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 03, 2006, 03:29:37 AM
Ceric:  I actually think Simon Belmont would be a cool character.  I was just listing reasons why Nintendo may not use him...although as you pointed out, the older gamer would love to see such a classic character...the ultimate question will be: "Does the design team want use a valuable character slot that oldskool gamers will play remember and enjoy.  Or one that more modern gamers and oldskool can enjoy.  It may be a mistake to actually go for the younger character in this case.  

As I definately agree Belmont makes a better character in the game than Sonic would.

To me Mega Man is near and dear to my heart.  As a child he was one of my favorite characters, and I hated watching Mega Man evolve into the X franchise.  (I loved the boss designs...just not Mega Man's design.)  There is also several unique ways you could design Mega Man.

1) Give him a few classic moves of his and then allow him to copy abilities ala Kirby.  (I used to think this was the best means of doing it.)

however I have rethought my idea and I believe

2)Full move set based on classic acquired powers from the NES games would be great.  You can even allow him a move to switch power sets with a taunt or something.

This would allow us to get all the classic Mega Man powers from Leaf Shield, Cut Blade...(Name your favorite here)

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 03, 2006, 03:30:56 AM
Actually they already said that All games will be available to you regardless of region.  If it's on one regions server then it yours for the taking.  Now if you can read it ... Thats another story...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 03, 2006, 04:14:55 AM
I personally can't wait to be able to do real comparisons between Super Smash Brothers, Melee, and Brawl...all using the WiiClassic Controller...and determining which I like better...and the strengths and weaknesses of each.

I just have this feeling that Brawl will become the definative version of the series...really correcting the mistakes of Melee, and continuing the enhance the series the same way Melee did.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Edfishy on July 03, 2006, 04:43:48 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I personally can't wait to be able to do real comparisons between Super Smash Brothers, Melee, and Brawl...all using the WiiClassic Controller...and determining which I like better...and the strengths and weaknesses of each.

I just have this feeling that Brawl will become the definative version of the series...really correcting the mistakes of Melee, and continuing the enhance the series the same way Melee did.


Yes, besides the horrendous framerate and the crappy graphics, I prefer the original Smash Bros. more than Melee.  The action was much quicker, when you hit someone even with a standard "B" move, the person would go flying, and just overall the pace seemed much more balance.   For some odd reason I feel that people stay on the course -- and in front of me for that matter, for way too long in Melee.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 03, 2006, 05:10:44 PM
I believe Melee became more of a traditional fighting game.

Where the original stayed true to its conceptual roots (King of the Hill fights.)

You are right.  The original Smash seemed every attack pushed you back somewhat.  So the game seemed to have a balance of moving back to that center safe area, after being attacked.

With Melee, that need for safety is less important.  Your characters can take more abuse, and the speed and level design make it less of a factor to get back to the center.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 04, 2006, 02:41:24 AM
Melee is hardly a "traditional fighting game" or anything remotely near one...If it were I'd hate the game...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on July 04, 2006, 06:13:13 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Bill Aurion
Melee is hardly a "traditional fighting game" or anything remotely near one...If it were I'd hate the game...


I think that's what I love the most about the game is how flexible it is. If you want a more traditional fighter, all you have to do is turn items off and have a one-on-one match on Final Destination. If you want something more hectic, then there is always max items, four players, and one of the moving stages like the Rainbow Cruise. Hell, you can have max item with all Bobombs for some truly frantic play on one of the smaller stages if you want. It's up to you. Also, I find Melee much more balanced then the first was (they nerfed Fox and Captain Falcon from the first... and they are still two of the best characters...).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: WindyMan on July 04, 2006, 09:41:51 AM
Sonic is going to be in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.  Period.

I'm so convinced by this that I've stopped anticipating it.  It's just going to happen.  It has to.

Anyways, back to your regularly scheduled thread.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Karl Castaneda #2 on July 04, 2006, 10:01:19 AM
I just thought of a substitute for trophies. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned before (and I'm not going to check this gigantic thread to make sure), but what if, instead of trophies, you had paintings? As Mario, you could walk around a gigantic hall of paintings (maybe even make it a castle and give it a Super Mario 64 feel), and basically get the same effect of the trophies, but it makes the whole thing more interactive. As far as the accompanying information, you can walk up to the painting and read the description.

Thoughts?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caterkiller on July 04, 2006, 11:51:03 AM
The paintings would be a really cool idea. They could give even more Nintendo History than the trophies would. Like say... each painting highlights a big or small moment in a certain games history. There could be painting of when Samus first destroyed the mother brain, or when Mario first met Yoshi as an adult and a baby. Thinking about it now, alot of the trophies describe some of these things, but the paintings could give a nice image of how it looked. I would love to see a painting of scientists in process of creating Mewtwo. Things of that nature sound awesome.

Does anyone here not think Sonic is going to be in the game? It just seems inevitable now, could you imagine the marketing for Mario VS Sonic? well if he isn't a secret character, which he most likely will be.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Karl Castaneda #2 on July 04, 2006, 12:02:50 PM
Actually, I think it would be even better if you weren't limited to just walking around as Mario. You should be able to explore with any character you've unlocked. And each character, although not necessarily involved in any action, should have a special ability that would make running around that much more fun. Mario should be able to jump and shoot fireballs, and so on. Link should be able to use his items (shoot a bow, swing the Master Sword, etc.). Sonic, should he be featured, should be able to speed around really fast. You get the idea.

Of course, this may be too big a feature to add to the game. Still, it'd be pretty awesome, and I know I'd love to just wander around with all of my favorite Smashers. Can you imagine riding around on a star with Kirby or actually flying with Pit? Sweetness.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 04, 2006, 12:43:23 PM
Nah.  Compared to some of things we batted around this sort of thing would be minor.  But if they have the same number as in Melee it would just be to big of an area to explore.  I personal like, I'm pretty sure it was Spak-Spang's, idea of cards.  You could collect cards from battles that would take the place of Trophies and they could depict, like cards normally do, characters, events, and the like.  I think Spak-Spang expanded that to include a side game you could play with the cards but I think the cards themselves would be cool.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Athrun Zala on July 04, 2006, 01:29:08 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: ViewtifulGamer
Actually, I think it would be even better if you weren't limited to just walking around as Mario. You should be able to explore with any character you've unlocked. And each character, although not necessarily involved in any action, should have a special ability that would make running around that much more fun. Mario should be able to jump and shoot fireballs, and so on. Link should be able to use his items (shoot a bow, swing the Master Sword, etc.). Sonic, should he be featured, should be able to speed around really fast. You get the idea.

Of course, this may be too big a feature to add to the game. Still, it'd be pretty awesome, and I know I'd love to just wander around with all of my favorite Smashers. Can you imagine riding around on a star with Kirby or actually flying with Pit? Sweetness.
you know? that would be really cool....

I'd add that certain rooms could be accessed by certain characters (like, for example, rooms that you could get to only by flying), which would add more depth to the thing (and more make it more interesting ^^) and we wouldn't depend on luck (the lottery) but PURE SKILL (lol)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 04, 2006, 02:20:32 PM
Ceric:  Thanks for the props.  It was a small idea I had for the cards...but I really can't take credit for it too much...Square already did that in a Final Fantasy game I think.

I do like the Paintings idea.  Something about walking around the Mushroom Castle entering rooms to view Paintings would be cool.  You could easily make the castle seperate into each different game series and have paintings for each series.  And to make the work easier on the artists you can run a month or two month contest in Japan and the US for Nintendo fans around the world to create the paintings.  The best paintings will be included in the game, and the winners will all get a free copy of the game.  

Though, you could also easily do both.  Paintings in the castle say around 100 paintings to collect, and also the trading cards.  Say around 200-300 trading cards.  Paintings would have to be won or found in the game mode...but trading cards could be bought.

Nintendo wouldn't even have to spend too much time on developing the card game...they could give it to another design team.  As I said when I first brought it up it does pay tribute to Nintendo's roots...and it provides another online experience that could also use the Wii24connect to play...and it wouldn't be too hard to program online play with a card game.

I know people would be upset if the balance of the actual game is compromised with too many additions, but I just don't see that being too much of a problem.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 04, 2006, 05:44:32 PM
I don't think creating those 3d trophies is easier than making paintings, if you allowed the artists to use a less detailled style they could produce one in 15-30 minutes. Or Nintendo would go the cheap route and simply use screenhots.

I don't know, if I were running around in the castle with pictures on the walls I'd try if I could enter any of them...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 06, 2006, 01:36:30 AM
KDR:  And actually that would be kinda cool too.  Run in paintings and jump in them.  Perhaps you will unlock something for the game.  A new Skin for Mario or Gang.  Perhaps jumping in a painting would unlock a new stage.  

Hell you can even open up mini games, or store an actual game level from the game that jumping in will allow you to play.  There is alot of potential and fun you can do with paintings.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on July 06, 2006, 01:55:01 AM
But it's been done....

Isn't their a more creative way of unlocking mini-games and stages than jumping into paintings?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 06, 2006, 05:31:42 AM
True.  Its been done.  But that is partly why you do it.  Not to unlock every secret that way...but because people are going to try to jump into paintings anyway.  Give them what they are seeking.  Its just a good reward.  People expect something to happen you give it to them.


Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on July 06, 2006, 04:30:35 PM
Jumping into my first painting in Mario 64 was pure bliss..
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 07, 2006, 01:11:09 AM
I remember the demo of Mario 64 in the stores.  I played it so much I knew the first 3 levels by heart before I even owned the game.  Jumping through the paintings still brings a since of wonder and mystery to me every time.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on July 07, 2006, 06:32:12 AM
How about a Moogle?  I'd like to play as a Moogle.

Has that been mentioned yet?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 07, 2006, 07:03:07 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
How about a Moogle?  I'd like to play as a Moogle.

Has that been mentioned yet?


I thought Mog from FF3 US would be excellent, since he was the only named Moogle I can remember and he kicked severe ass.

There was even an ad with a picture of him standing amidst a pile of dangerous looking monsters, and in the next picture, the monsters were all slaughtered and he was still standing there in the same pose.

Mog was badass.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 07, 2006, 09:07:26 AM
Why would you use something from Final Fantasy 3?

Hmmm.

When I read that, I thought he was referencing the Pig Monsters from the original Zelda.  The ones that later were the guards from Link to the Past in the Dark World.  

Actually, I wouldn't mind a character like that...but again, I wonder if that is a big enough character.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 07, 2006, 09:28:32 AM
FF3 (aka FF6 in Japan) was one of the biggest FF games on the SNES (if not the biggest) and is considered by many to be the best ever. It was also the last FF game for the SNES in the US.

Nobuo Uematsu, the composer of all of FF's music from 1-10 or so, also did the intro score for SSBB. That seems just a bit suspect to me if there is to be no contribution to SSBB via means of a FF character when the composer of nearly all of FF's soundtracks is working on SSBB.

I suggest Mog as a throwback because he'd be a unique character. We already have enough characters wielding swords and other bladed weapons. We could use more non-humanoids and Mog fits that bill.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on July 07, 2006, 09:41:09 AM
WELL... Nobuo Uematsu's gone indie... he can work on whatever he wants now.

~CarmineM. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 07, 2006, 09:46:31 AM
Hmm, didn't know that.

A FF character would be nice, but if what they're saying is true and we can expect only 2-3 more 3rd party characters, then I don't know if there'd be room, exactly.

Then again, all bets are off. I can't even argue that a character would have to get a lot of face time on a Nintendo console in order to be considered because Snake has had only one game on a Nintendo console in 10+ years and Konami didn't even develop it.

With the release of FF3 DS (Japan), it could be argued that FF games have seen FAR more presence on Nintendo consoles in recent times than MGS, between FF:CC, FF1&2 on the GBA, and now FF3 DS, the first fully redone FF game which actually belongs to the series (instead of being an offshoot like CC).

But who knows. I don't think anyone suspected for a minute that Snake would be in the game so imaging that we can guess the remainder of the characters is futile.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 07, 2006, 09:48:04 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Nobuo Uematsu, the composer of all of FF's music from 1-10 or so, also did the intro score for SSBB. That seems just a bit suspect to me if there is to be no contribution to SSBB via means of a FF character when the composer of nearly all of FF's soundtracks is working on SSBB.


Except that he left Square Enix like, six months ago.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on July 07, 2006, 09:57:42 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
When I read that, I thought he was referencing the Pig Monsters from the original Zelda.  The ones that later were the guards from Link to the Past in the Dark World.
I was actually referring to the Moogles from the Final Fantasy series.

It makes sense to have a character from one of the most popular RPG series of all time.  Cloud is the best known character, but since he hasn't really appeared on a Nintendo system he's not a viable option.

I like the idea of a Moogle because it's a pretty well known character/creature, and they've been in most of the games so regardless of which FF you've played, you'll be familiar with them.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 07, 2006, 06:56:15 PM
If there's a Moogle maybe as a joke that pops up randomly when you throw a Pokeball.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 10, 2006, 09:37:07 AM
Thought about something recently...

DoA4 on the 360 features a character from Halo who, although looking identical to Master Chief, is supposed to be a female Spartan.

I found it unusual that this character did not appear on the cover or back of the game box, as I would think a number of Halo fans would have been enticed into buying the game if they could effectively play as Master Chief.

Then it occurred to me: who's going to be on the cover of SSBB?

I think we'll see Link, Mario, Samus and Snake.

Link and Mario are time-honored characters who will have new games on the Wii. Snake would give MGS fans a reason to buy the game. Samus (in her Zero suit) suddenly brings sex appeal into the picture.

Or maybe they'll have a larger arrangement of characters, like the art from the original SSBM site which had all of the characters lined up together.

Given the nature of the game, I see it as being beneficial to put characters like Snake who are not typically associated with Nintendo on the cover as the Nintendo fans are going to buy the game anyway and the MGS fans might take an interest once they see Snake in the game.

Anyone else care to field some predictions?

Quote

Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo Except that he left Square Enix like, six months ago.


Again, I didn't know that, but I stand by the idea that, with Nintendo and SE's relationship improving, we could see a FF character in SSBB (if for no other reason than to rope in some FF fans who would otherwise never buy a Wii or SSBB).
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: please let me in, please on July 10, 2006, 10:41:28 AM
I would like to see a character from Tales of Symphonia added. Genis being my top pick because of his awesome magic, ( imagine using meteor storm). Man that would kick A**!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on July 12, 2006, 12:04:04 AM
Moogle Scores a Three Pointer
Quote

Mario Hoops 3-on-3 welcomes a new member to its roster in this week’s Famitsu issue. Square-Enix’s very own Moogle will be joining Mario and company on the court for some dribbling action.
I wonder if this is a hint at things to come?  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on July 12, 2006, 02:56:53 AM
Man, all the comments on that link are about DK's "boobs".  I must admit, they are awfully large...

Moogle in Mario 3 on 3 is pretty cool.  I'd like to see Mog or just a generic Moogle in SSB too, I guess we'll see.  For box art I think a collage including a big character lineup like the one from SSB:Melee and then close-ups of Mario, Link, Samus and Kirby would be nice.  Put the third-party characters in the foreground of the character lineup to emphasize them, but not necessarilly as much as the big Nintendo stars.  To me, the game should still be about Nintendo first and foremost, but I agree that it's important to show crossover characters.

Another idea might be a battle between some cross-over characters (with Nintendo characters filling out the field to four, assuming there are less than four cross-overs) and then closeups of Nintendo majors in the background.  Kind of like what I described above, but with more action.  now I'm afraid I might be tempted to actually try my hand at some box art...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 12, 2006, 03:08:59 AM
The only way they should put the non-Nintendo characters on the artwork is as part of a lineup that has everyone on it.  That is my opinion.  I think that they should be a cool feature and not used as a sparkling innovation.  In the less durable things like ads and things they could show up.  But if they want to make Nintendo vs The World then make Nintendo Vs. The World and don't soil a good franchise by tweaking it off its premise to much.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 12, 2006, 08:18:47 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Then it occurred to me: who's going to be on the cover of SSBB?


Probably all the people who will be unlocked at the beginning, like in Melee.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Artimus on July 12, 2006, 10:32:45 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Then it occurred to me: who's going to be on the cover of SSBB?


Probably all the people who will be unlocked at the beginning, like in Melee.


Hopefully they can find a better way of showing them than those silly boxes.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on July 12, 2006, 12:58:58 PM
they should put reggie on the cover kicking ass and taking names. that'll show nintendo is catering to the mature gamers
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on July 12, 2006, 04:11:42 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: EasyCure
they should put reggie on the cover kicking ass and taking names. that'll show nintendo is catering to the mature gamers


PUT REGGIE IN SMASH BROS!!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 13, 2006, 01:55:49 AM
You can't put Reggie in Smash Bros.  You couldn't balance the game if he was in it.  No character could smash him, and to accurately portray his power in Smash Brothers would be mind boggling.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Tanookisuit on July 13, 2006, 02:07:40 AM
I'm all for Reggie in the game.  I'd also like to see Fred Savage from The Wizard in the game.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 13, 2006, 02:38:48 AM
Tanookisuit.  I think you should spell it Tanuki Suit.  The oo was so stupid american would know how to pronounce it.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 13, 2006, 03:22:56 AM
Don't forget Reggie's Sea Monster.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on July 13, 2006, 03:34:40 AM
Here's my 10-cent Photoshop attempt at a box.  Please ignore the horrible typography, I'm just trying to get my earlier ideas across.  Plus it's fun.

(click here for a larger version).    
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: 31 Flavas on July 13, 2006, 03:35:27 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
You can't put Reggie in Smash Bros.  You couldn't balance the game if he was in it.  No character could smash him, and to accurately portray his power in Smash Brothers would be mind boggling.
But what you could do is have Reggie pop out of a Prize Ball when thrown. He insta-smashes everyone regardless of where you are and everyone would, of course, be nameless for the rest of the battle.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2006, 04:15:17 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey
Here's my 10-cent Photoshop attempt at a box.


That's excellent.

Exactly what I'd recommend for box art: it shows off 3rd party characters, Samus for sex appeal and all of Nintendo's greats are still on the cover.

I expect that if Sonic is in the game, he'd also be on the cover.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 13, 2006, 05:02:21 AM
I don't like the showing off of 3rd party developers.  Personally I would go for a very simplistic box art.  Stylized Logo of the game is all.  Then on the back I would have huge images of from the game, with very little game text needed to describe the game.  Everyone knows Smash Brothers now.  

I really do like the Reggie popping out of a Prize Ball or Pokeball.  It would be pretty funny.

However, I think I have the perfect roll for Reggie in Smash Brothers.

Move over Madden.  Reggie will be the new commentor for Smash Brothers.  With Reggie the man himself recording an hour or two of Reggisms for the game.  

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 13, 2006, 05:18:29 AM
Actually ax snake.  Instead put the box on there.  Now that I think about it all I don't want to see the third parties on the cover but I wouldn't mind in-jokes about them on the cover.  Like the Snake box.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2006, 05:25:37 AM
The cover is typically adorned with characters that people know and recognize.

SSBM included Mario, Bowser, Link and Pikachu (I don't count the boxes with the other character's faces in them because you have to examine the box a bit closer to realize who they are).

Roping in fans of other franchises is a sound concept because Nintendo fans are a sure-sell anyway. Why try sell to an audience which is almost guaranteed to buy your product already?  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on July 13, 2006, 05:56:07 AM
I mourn the loss of Game & Watch... Why god why?!?!?!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on July 13, 2006, 06:37:31 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
I mourn the loss of Ice Climbers... Why god why?!?!?!
Fixed.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: JonLeung on July 13, 2006, 06:58:37 AM
Was it actually confirmed that Mr. Game & Watch and the Ice Climbers got axed for Brawl?

Considering that there's probably still time for them to even yet finalize the fighter roster, Nintendo could change their mind even if they did say it.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on July 13, 2006, 07:02:58 AM
NOTHING HAS BEEN CONFIRMED ABOUT ICE CLIMBERS OR G&W AND SUCH.

I like how a rumor from Gamefaqs, the unholy hell of all intermotron gaming sites, has persisted this long.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on July 13, 2006, 07:54:52 AM
Thanks for clearing that up, Strell.  I didn't know the source, but I knew it was a rumour.

I personally think they should definitely have as many characters on the cover as possible.  Not everyone knows Super Smash Bros - every Nintendo fan may know it, but I'd be willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that way more people recognize Pokemon, Mario, or even the Legend of Zelda than Super Smash Bros.  And the group that's going to be the most ignorant is also going to be the most impressed by Snake and other third party characters, so I think Nintendo should put as many characters on there as possible.  Every gamer should spot at least one character they love on the cover when they walk past.

Having said that, I miss the days of simplistic boxart when you could get away with nothing more than a logo or maybe a logo and an illustration (see Super Mario Bros. 3).  I'd like to see more simplistic box art in general, but I think Super Smash Bros. is one title where more is definitely better.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2006, 08:10:08 AM
So...

Animal Crossing is one of the DS's number one selling games in the world, foremost in Japan.

Who from Animal Crossing can properly represent the franchise?

Me? I'm thinking Mr. Resetti:

-He's the only character who comes across as the "fighting" type. Nook, K.K. and Blathers don't have the raw aggressive edge that he has.
-The human character would be too generic, as every player is customizable and will vary in appearance and gender.
-He already has a weapon: the pickaxe.
-He and KK were both trophies in SSBM (again, I doubt KK)

Out of all characters I'm hoping for, Resetti is my #1...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on July 13, 2006, 08:16:34 AM
KK has a guitar.

Guitar >>>>>>> pickaxe.

KK FTW.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on July 13, 2006, 08:22:00 AM
Resetti would be more of an Animal Crossing stage event/fixture/obstacle.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2006, 08:32:31 AM
KK is an esoteric stoner, though. Not exactly a "fighter" in any sense of the word.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 13, 2006, 08:51:47 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Resetti would be more of an Animal Crossing stage event/fixture/obstacle.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

An AC stage would have to have several of the characters running in and out of their houses, digging holes for the fighters to get stuck in, and occasionally accidentally whacking a fighter with a net while chasing a butterfly.  Every once in a while, Mr. Resetti would pop up and make everyone sit still and listen to him rant for ten minutes before continuing the fight.  Oh, and Nook would bust your kneecaps with a fishing rod if you didn't have his money on time.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on July 13, 2006, 09:14:05 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: PartyBear Oh, and Nook would bust your kneecaps with a fishing rod if you didn't have his money on time.


That's because we weren't good little fish.

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
KK is an esoteric stoner, though. Not exactly a "fighter" in any sense of the word.


Ok seriously.  Does Jigglypuff look like a fighter to you?  He sleeps and sings.  Not exactly killer instinct imo.

But point taken.  Doesn't change that I'd like to see KK in there.  He's just so damn cool.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 13, 2006, 09:14:54 AM
I dunno.  Just because a game is popular doesn't mean you should put their characters into Smash Brothers.

I really can't see a reason for Animal Crossing characters in the game.  They don't fit.  The game isn't even an action game series.  

At most I would do is either a themed level surrounding Animal Crossing, or some reference to it without a real character showing up to fight.  But I may be in the minority on this one.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 13, 2006, 09:23:41 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang The game isn't even an action game series.


Chase down (or be chased down BY) a tarantula and then come back and tell me that.

Pokemon and Fire Emblem aren't "action" games in any sense of the word, and yet those have a strong presence in SSB. Both of those are turn-based and yet the characters showed up on the merit of their popularity.

I think AC is a shoe-in: the game is just too much of a runaway hit on the DS not to be.

The only question in my mind is which character they'll include.

Quote

Ok seriously.  Does Jigglypuff look like a fighter to you?  He sleeps and sings.  Not exactly killer instinct imo.

But point taken.  Doesn't change that I'd like to see KK in there.  He's just so damn cool.


JP's sole purpose in its game of origin is to fight. KK plays music.

Though, given how popular the series is and the fact that KK and Resetti both showed up as trophies in SSBM, they could easily both be included.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 13, 2006, 09:42:29 AM
Yes,

But Pokemon is a game about fighting.  It is an RPG, but it still has action in it.  You are raising monsters to fight.  The same about Fire Emblem.  It is a strategy game, but it is filled with action.

Animal Crossing is a life simulation.  There are a few elements that may be considered action based...but for the most part it is fishing, writing, designing houses, clothing and more.

I love Animal Crossing, but I just don't think it makes a perfect fit in Smash Brothers, even with a run away hit.  Unless they do what they did with Nintendogs and just put it in as a special cameo thing some how.

In other words, Nintendogs was a run away hit, should you be able to play as a Puppy?  Or Brain Training was a huge hit, should the doctor be in the game?  Hell No.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on July 13, 2006, 10:14:53 AM
I think Resetti would be okay, but I agree that it's not the greatest game to add to SSB.  I think they could probably fit some Animal crossing stuff in, though. An Animal Crossing level, and maybe an Axe weapon, that would be cool
(but then the game would be rated M...*chop chop chop chop*)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on July 13, 2006, 10:44:46 AM
Animal Crossing items would rock!

Ooooh! Ooooh! And tons of AC trophies! YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Zach on July 13, 2006, 10:47:38 AM
But lots of the characters have swords, which can be worse than an axe.  As long as they dont show blood, then an axe could easily be included without risking the ratings.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on July 13, 2006, 11:48:44 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Zach
But lots of the characters have swords, which can be worse than an axe.  As long as they dont show blood, then an axe could easily be included without risking the ratings.


But how many characters have golden shovels?

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 13, 2006, 12:41:36 PM
The Golden Shovel and Golden Axe would make great items and would be very cool items in the game.

I think that is the perfect way to pay homage to Animal Crossing.

It could also be cool if all melee weapons had a golden form that came out like every 10% of the time the item is summoned.  It could be like 25% more powerful than the regular item.  

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Zach on July 13, 2006, 12:48:33 PM
GOLDEN HAMMER!!!!!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 13, 2006, 12:49:36 PM
Zach:  I think that would be the most frightening item in the game.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 13, 2006, 02:27:46 PM
Not only smash people away but send a revibration through the stage stunning people.  AC levels I can see, AC Items also, anything else would be weird.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on July 13, 2006, 05:22:13 PM
i like the idea of an AC leven but i think it would be more realistic to think that an AC related item would show up before a level.

on that not. the first item i could think of being perfect for smash would be the Pitfall. i remember not having a single clue as to what that thing did, and i buried it outside of my house because i had no where to store it. walked right over it and then i realized it. having Pitfalls in ssbb would be cool, and theyd work just like the proximity mines do. who wouldnt want to see snake or ganondorf make the same expression as a character from AC when they fall into one???

the golden items was a good idea too. oh and Mr. resetti should be pulled out of the ground with Peach's turnip move at random (how sometimes she unearths a mr saturn, mr resetti would make more sense though). they could even have like a speech bubble or a trail of words following him as you throw him across the stage.

i think someone might of mentioned this before but what if they DO add the brain age doctor to the mix? play the game on normal-very hard and reach master hand with no continues. get him down to half his hp in less than a minute or so, out comes crazy hand. get his hp half way down and out comes... BRAINAGE DOCTOR!!! he'd float in the middle of the stage between each hand and shoot lasers from his eyes and throw math equations at you. it would be almost like battling andross actually if you lose he could taunt you with sayings like "your fighting age is 63. you're still young so take these resultes with a grain of salt"
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on July 13, 2006, 06:09:03 PM
I really like that boxart couchmonkey, although I feel that Wario shouldn't be the centre of attention; in that one he is foremost.

Also, Dr. Kawashima should totally be in SSBB! Takashi Tohoku University future technology collaborative research center Kawashima thickly forges the professor supervision brain DS training. I love saying that.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mikintosh on July 14, 2006, 01:29:16 PM
Well, they probably couldn't have the Brain Age doctor in the game b/c it's a likeness of a real person, tho it's not out of the question. But I think an Animal Crossing item's pretty likely, and maybe a Chibi Robo stage? Just to throw things out there.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 14, 2006, 02:05:04 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang But Pokemon is a game about fighting.  It is an RPG, but it still has action in it.  You are raising monsters to fight.  The same about Fire Emblem.  It is a strategy game, but it is filled with action.


"Action" is not deciding a command and waiting for a random number generator to dictate the outcome of your decision. In fact, that's the exact OPPOSITE of action: allowing success or failure to be determined by RNG means that the game could be played by an 80 year old and still be played just as well as a 10 year old because skill and reflex are 100% irrelevant.

FE and Pokemon are RPGs. Both contain absolutely no "action" on the behalf of the player and therefore calling AC not an action game by comparison is nonsensical.

I've played all three and there's FAR more action in Animal Crossing when it comes to catching bugs, shooting down sky items, fishing and being chased down the beach by a tarantula which is bounding after you and nipping at your heels.

Quote

I love Animal Crossing, but I just don't think it makes a perfect fit in Smash Brothers, even with a run away hit.  Unless they do what they did with Nintendogs and just put it in as a special cameo thing some how.

In other words, Nintendogs was a run away hit, should you be able to play as a Puppy?  Or Brain Training was a huge hit, should the doctor be in the game?  Hell No.


Nintendogs are generic puppies which you create and tailor to your own tastes.

Mr. Resetti and KK Slider are known characters and icons in the AC circle, so much so that they both appeared as trophies in SSBM.

These are just more fan-dreamt prerequisites for what they think constitutes good SSBB characters. As we now know, even 3rd party characters aren't off limits. The only thing which seems to consistently guarantee entry into a SSB is popularity.

AC is immensely popular in Japan, where it has sold 3,000,000 copies there alone. You honestly think it'll just be given some watered down representation like a stage or an item?

Again, it's not the question of whether or not SSBB will include an AC character, it's the question of which one will it include. Count on it.

As for the doctor, stranger things (like Mr. Game and Watch) have happened.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 14, 2006, 03:43:20 PM
Why don't we use the term Violent then instead of Action.  AC doesn't have a violent streak in it.  It's as violent as an average life in a quiet town.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 14, 2006, 03:47:35 PM
Hahaha, Mr. Resetti would be an awesome item...If you are hit by him you can't move until you cycle through all of his text...Most dangerous item ever!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 14, 2006, 06:34:32 PM
No, that'd be a few seconds of stun, enough to charge a super attack like Roy's firesword.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mikintosh on July 14, 2006, 07:49:51 PM
It would take a huge updating of the character designs of the AC characters to match the Wii graphics, as they've never been shown at better than N64 level. Also, pretty much every SSB character was playable in their original games; neither KK Slider or Mr. Resetti fit that, and the main character from AC is too generic (and customizable) to work either. I do think that it should have Balloon Fight-like representation, with stage music and items and all that.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 14, 2006, 09:22:48 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Mikintosh
It would take a huge updating of the character designs of the AC characters to match the Wii graphics, as they've never been shown at better than N64 level. Also, pretty much every SSB character was playable in their original games; neither KK Slider or Mr. Resetti fit that, and the main character from AC is too generic (and customizable) to work either. I do think that it should have Balloon Fight-like representation, with stage music and items and all that.


Updating charactor designs isn't a problem.  Look at Pit, his last game was for the Gameboy and they had no problem updating him.

In the case of being playable, it's no different then the Pokemon charactors.  The main charactors in the Pokemon games that you play as aren't used in any of the Smash Bros games.  Instead they use the popular charactors like Pikachu and Jigglypuff since ever knows about them.  

Now me personally, I'm not into the whole AC series so I'm not hoping for an AC charactor but since the recent one has sold 3 million copies in Japan and done quite well in America also, the chances of an AC charactor appearing are very high.  

Plus if they were able to give Caption Falcon (A charactor that was only known for driving a fast moving vechicle since he's the main charactor of a racing series) a moveset, they're capable of giving any charactor a moveset.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on July 15, 2006, 03:27:04 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
No, that'd be a few seconds of stun, enough to charge a super attack like Roy's firesword.

Thanks for ruining the joke...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: stevey on July 15, 2006, 09:58:03 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Mikintosh
It would take a huge updating of the character designs of the AC characters to match the Wii graphics, as they've never been shown at better than N64 level. Also, pretty much every SSB character was playable in their original games; neither KK Slider or Mr. Resetti fit that, and the main character from AC is too generic (and customizable) to work either. I do think that it should have Balloon Fight-like representation, with stage music and items and all that.


It would be easy to make AC charaters to fit in the wii they could just use the artwork with WW link cel shading.  And about the nonplayable then the main charater in AC... you could be everyone favorite charater since you can make your own face on the wii you could very well play with yourself or better yet play with reggie as a charater in the game!=)  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 15, 2006, 03:54:40 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Luigi Dude Updating charactor designs isn't a problem.  Look at Pit, his last game was for the Gameboy and they had no problem updating him.

In the case of being playable, it's no different then the Pokemon charactors.  The main charactors in the Pokemon games that you play as aren't used in any of the Smash Bros games.  Instead they use the popular charactors like Pikachu and Jigglypuff since ever knows about them.


Luigi beat me to it.

They fabricated movesets for all of the characters: find me a Zelda or Metroid game where Link or Samus had kick attacks or grabbed their foes and pummeled them.

They'd have no problem generating movesets for AC characters, especially Mr. Resetti and KK since they both have weapons already (pickaxe and guitar, respectively).

Quote

Now me personally, I'm not into the whole AC series so I'm not hoping for an AC charactor but since the recent one has sold 3 million copies in Japan and done quite well in America also, the chances of an AC charactor appearing are very high.


Thank you for being the voice of reason here.

Can anyone name me a Nintendo franchise (with characters which could be turned into SSB fighters) which has sold 3 million units in Japan ALONE which isn't represented in SSB?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 15, 2006, 08:14:14 PM
Legend of Starfi?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on July 15, 2006, 08:22:37 PM
KK's a pacifist! A lover, not a fighter! He makes sweet sweet lurrrv, not war!

Besides, we all know that the if there was only one Animal Crossing character in the game, it'd be Nook. With a baseball bat. Going for your kneecaps.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MattVDB on July 15, 2006, 08:31:26 PM
Personally, I would like to play as Nook more then any other AC character.  Resetti should be an item, like Bill suggested.  That was just awesome.  Golden items are also great.  That way the completely healing heart could make its return.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 16, 2006, 03:23:36 AM
This is from my Hidden in a PS3 Story thread.  (I wanted to keep things categorized.)
Quote


Quote

This lead to talk about collaborations, which of course, lead to talk of Solid Snake's appearance in the Wii version of Smash Brothers: "That was very surprising," said Nomura. "Cloud won't make an appearance?" asked Kojima. "We didn't get an offer," responded Nomura with a laugh.
Also if Cloud was announced for Brawl. I won't be getting the game until I hear very very solid reviews. Especially from cool headed people here. That would totally scream sell-out to me. I mean they could then take it all the way. Put in Coke for an item or other advertising. blah... Sorry about the rant.


From the Rumor Thread
Quote

Also, I'm going to post this in the SSBB thread as well, Miasm(sp?) level would rock.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 16, 2006, 04:47:11 AM
Cloud, despite his popularity, would have no basis for being in the game because he has never appeared on a Nintendo console and THAT was one of the few prerequisites which the devs themselves laid out for us.

The weird part is, it was Kojima who I heard "begged" for Snake to be included in SSBB. I hope this isn't a play on words by these two, saying 'We never got an offer." as a way of poking fun at Kojima and his tactic of begging.

Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
Legend of Starfi?


How about a franchise that isn't so insanely Japanese that it would put US and UK players off?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 16, 2006, 04:54:28 AM
Ah but it said Japan alone in the question so it fits.

Edit:

From Mario 3 on 3 thread.
Quote

Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey
Quote

Originally posted by: Caterkiller
Cloud will be a secret character in this game.  The Smash Bros Brawl  excuse: "you have to have appeared on a Nintendo console befor" will be fulfilled. Cloud will be a secret character in Brawl.


An entire horror movie crammed into a single post!


lol.
I agree.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 16, 2006, 05:34:19 PM
If they do use a FF character, I'm hoping for Mog from FFIII, the most badass moogle ever.

But I'd laugh myself sh*tless if they included Edgar Verona from FFIII, as one of his special moves would be "Sexually Harass" and could only be used against female characters.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on July 16, 2006, 05:48:47 PM
they should have Booster riding a train in the background of a level, and every now and again it comes into the battle feild and inflicts damage.

oh and for the AC level someone thought up, with characters running around hitting you with nets while trying to catch bugs... there should be a random snifit or two chasing after beetles.

i miss my super mario rpg
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on July 16, 2006, 05:55:36 PM
I hope it has all the original SSBM levels.

I'd even ask for the SSB levels.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NuclearSpeed on July 16, 2006, 08:55:52 PM
i hope the new characters are fun to use like Mr. Game and Watch was.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on July 17, 2006, 01:35:52 AM
Square-Enix?

Cloud?

or

Chrono?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 17, 2006, 04:58:30 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: capamerica
On: This was Hidden in a PS3 Story

I would hate to see Cloud in SSBB, he's never been on a Nintendo system which should automatically cancel him out. I would much rather see the Ninja or Black Mage from 3x3 in SSBB.

Now if FFVII where to be released on the DS I wouldn't have as much of a problem with Cloud, But I still don't want to see him, I'm sick and tired of all the FFVII crap. Its time for Square to shelve FFVII and stop milking it.


I completely agree.  I wouldn't mind seeing those version of Black Mage or Ninja.
I also wouldn't mind to much about Viewtiful Joe if it wasn't for the sour taste from him jumping to the PS2.
I was actually thinking they should have a rule with third party characters that they needed to have there start on a Nintendo System.  The Metal Gear series did if I recall.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 17, 2006, 05:10:29 AM
How could I forget? Cid!

Cid from FFIII US would be perfect for SSBB: not only was this Cid technically exclusive to Nintendo, but he's also the running gag of the entire FF series.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 17, 2006, 05:30:55 AM
That would rock.  And if they do the whole different costume thing then you could have the multiple versions of Cid show up. (Same moves but different look)
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 17, 2006, 05:32:17 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
How could I forget? Cid!

Cid from FFIII US would be perfect for SSBB: not only was this Cid technically exclusive to Nintendo, but he's also the running gag of the entire FF series.
He was in every FF up until which one? It would be great if he had his own Airship level.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on July 17, 2006, 05:55:42 AM
If we got any other version of Cid than his mad-football-player FF4 version, Square could kiss my ass.  

Hammers, man.  Hammers.  That's the only way to go.  None of this blond hair metrosexual spear-toting cigarette smoking GQ Cid.  I want a hulk of a dude with a big beard and huge goggles.  

This also dictates that underground dwarf tanks make an appearance.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 17, 2006, 06:02:43 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: BlackNMild2k1 He was in every FF up until which one? It would be great if he had his own Airship level.


I'm not sure which was his last game, but as a running gag, he'd make an ideal character.

If FF is to be represented, it'd be either him or Mog.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Athrun Zala on July 17, 2006, 07:52:09 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
I completely agree.  I wouldn't mind seeing those version of Black Mage or Ninja.
I also wouldn't mind to much about Viewtiful Joe if it wasn't for the sour taste from him jumping to the PS2.
I was actually thinking they should have a rule with third party characters that they needed to have there start on a Nintendo System.  The Metal Gear series did if I recall.
Metal Gear began on MSX, not Famicom/NES
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on July 17, 2006, 07:59:48 AM
Are you sure?

I could of sworn the first game was on the GB........
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 17, 2006, 08:11:22 AM
Really.  Hmm... Well that throws that out the Window.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 17, 2006, 09:56:07 PM
On the issue of Final Fantasy, this is why we need to be watching the Mario Basketball website very carefully.  If you go to the charactor page on the website, you'll see there's a third page but it hasn't been added yet.  Since it'll be the last page to be revealed, the charactors on the last pages are usually the big secret charactors that suprise people.

If Cloud is revealed to be one of those charactors, then I'm afraid he has a good chance of appearing in Brawl.  The requirement is the charactor must have appeared on a Nintendo console, and if Cloud is in Mario Basketball then he's offically appeared on a Nintendo console in a playable form and they can use that as a reason to include him.

Now Cloud is one of the last charactors I want to appear since I found him to be a very poor charactor but because of the huge popularity he has and how Square is milking FFVII for all it's worth, if there's a way they could get Cloud into Brawl they'd do it.



Let's just hope this doesn't happen though.  If there's a Final Fantasy charactor I'd like to see though, it'd be Setzer Gabbiani from FFVI.  He was one of my favorite charactors, plus since he fights by throwing cards he'd make a very interesting charactor in Brawl that'd be very unique as well.  

There's also the fact that he appeared in Kingdom Hearts 2 which makes him the only pre-FFVII charactor to appear in any of the Kingdom Hearts games.  Meaning he's the only Nintendo era Final Fantasy charactor to have appeared in a recent game that was very popular which could help his chances.  If Cloud doesn't appear in Mario Basketball then maybe Setzer might actually have a chance.  But I wont be getting my hopes up.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 17, 2006, 10:38:07 PM
How about a franchise that isn't so insanely Japanese that it would put US and UK players off?

You want to remove the Pokemon?

And now that you mention it, what about Hamtaro?

As for Cid I'd say that's unlikely since that guy has no coherent look, he doesn't even have the level of resemblance Link has between games. Mogries, on the other hand, have one look and kept it throughout the series.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on July 18, 2006, 04:01:36 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
Really.  Hmm... Well that throws that out the Window.


Nope, I was definitely wrong.

Wikipedia
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 18, 2006, 08:59:26 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k You want to remove the Pokemon?


Yeah, cause they would totally put US and UK players off, except for the fact that their games have already sold 5,000,000+ copies in these territories over the years.

Quote

And now that you mention it, what about Hamtaro?


Hamtaro is owned by Tokyo Movie Shinsha, a subsidiary of Sega Sammy, not Nintendo.

Quote

As for Cid I'd say that's unlikely since that guy has no coherent look, he doesn't even have the level of resemblance Link has between games. Mogries, on the other hand, have one look and kept it throughout the series.


Yeah, I do agree: no one will know who Cid is.

We might see a generic FF character like the ones in Mario 3 on 3, but I'd prefer an ACTUAL character like Mog to a generic nameless character.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 18, 2006, 11:29:31 AM
Moogles are the definitation of generic and nameless.  They are always just that Mog and they all look the same and sometime they look different.  There the equivalent to people like Toad or Koopa Troopas in Mario.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 19, 2006, 03:55:40 AM
Or the Pokemon in Pokemon.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 19, 2006, 04:19:06 AM
Pokemon tend to vary much much more then Moogles.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 19, 2006, 05:18:15 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
Moogles are the definitation of generic and nameless.  They are always just that Mog and they all look the same and sometime they look different.  There the equivalent to people like Toad or Koopa Troopas in Mario.


The point of Mog is that he has attacks and abilities unique to FF3 US.

Judging by all the info about him, his moveset would be absolute cake.

His desperation attack, the Moogle Rush, would be a move, as well as his various dances. The article doesn't list what they do, but take your pick for his B-attacks. The dances are supposed to alter the conditions of the battle which I'm sure the SSBB team could get VERY creative with.

Mog was evidently well thought of by the first US localization team as he appears both on the cover of the box for Final Fantasy III US and in the original US commercial for the game, wherein he interviewed (and disposed of) numerous threatening monsters for possible inclusion in the game.

I doubt we'll see him, as I doubt anyone even remembers him, but he's a perfect example of how there was a unique Moogle with a style and personality all his own who appeared on a Nintendo console.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 19, 2006, 06:12:10 AM
So the Mog in FFIII or FFVI is a playable Primary character?  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 19, 2006, 06:20:50 AM
I really can't get behind any Final Fantasy characters.  I have tried to think of a character I would even be remotely interested in...and I get nothing.

The two closest characters we get to truly iconic characters for Final Fantasy are Cloud (which hasn't really been on a Nintendo system) and Mog?!?  I know he could be a really cool character, but if that is the best we can do...then I really don't care for Final Fantasy characters.

I know we have beat this conversation to death...but there are infinitely more iconic characters that have been brought up before:

Sonic,
Mega Man,
Simon Belmont,
Bomber Man,

hell you could even argue

Captain N is more iconic (I wouldn't, but some could.)

Everybody knows what third party characters I am interested in getting.

I am just hoping the developers also add:

Lil Mac
Olimar
and
Ghost Busting Luigi

Then I would be a very happy camper.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: nickmitch on July 19, 2006, 06:50:00 AM
I suspect that Luigi will be using the Poltergeist 3000 in Brawl. He had it in Mario Power Tennis.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 19, 2006, 06:50:14 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
So the Mog in FFIII or FFVI is a playable Primary character?


Yep, he was a character who you could rescue at two different points in the game, one much earlier on, and he was the only Moogle in the game who could speak english and did so in a rude, streetwise dialogue.

I point him out because Moogles have been a symbol of FF since FF3 Japan. While they're an icon which represents FF, Mog is a character who represents FFIII US, the game which many still claim is the best FF ever made and it premiered on the SNES.

Moogles have since appeared in FF Tactics advance and the Moogle helper in FF:CC was ALSO named "Mog" (which can be a shortening of the word "Moogle").

If you want to play it by appearances, a FF character is much more deserving of being in SSBB than Snake, who has only appeared on a Nintendo console once in the past 15 years and Konami didn't even develop the game (SK did).

That trend continues with MGS4 being PS3 exclusive (for now) and very little support for the Wii from Konami or Kojima.

Ubi is allegedly getting a character into SSBB, likely from their early involvement with Nintendo and Red Steel. I think we all expect to see Sonic in the game from Sega and their numerous collaborations with Nintendo. I'd expect a Namco character, what with Link being in SC2 and the handling of many Nintendo franchises by Namco (and the joint-venture Triforce arcade hardware).

Konami is offering "Elebits" and little else (they wouldn't even offer the Wii a 3D Castlevania, FFS!).

Meanwhile, Square is offering FF and DQ games for the Wii launch (forgoing launch games for the PS3 in the process), a complete remake of FF III Japan for the DS (which looks awesome, by the way) and the joint development of Mario 3 on 3, which will feature a FF/Nintendo crossover with 5 classic FF archetypes making an appearance in the game (including a Moogle). In addition, they have a number of other DS titles in development and more plans for the Wii.

Now that I look at the numbers, I'd be stunned if we DIDN'T see a FF character in SSBB, if for no other reason than the fact that Square has done a sh*tload more than Konami to earn Nintendo's favor.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 19, 2006, 07:00:45 AM
I can't think of an Ubisoft mascot off the top of my head.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 19, 2006, 07:02:47 AM
Rayman? Sam Fisher?

But people are hoping for Jade from Beyond Good and Evil since she's vastly more deep and is an all around better character.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on July 19, 2006, 07:24:30 AM
...which is very important in a fighter.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 19, 2006, 07:37:59 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
...which is very important in a fighter.


Being a better character is DEFINITELY important.

Why do you think anyone is at all excited about Snake? Because he's a likable character with a strong fanbase.

I've never played a Rayman game, but from the sheer amount of rereleasing they do with him (on EVERY console, even the Atari Jaguar), I'd prefer a character which hasn't been whored to death.

Also, Jade brings a great deal more to the table via a stave-based moveset and camera attacks. She also adds to the ailing female presence in SSB games.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Darkheart on July 19, 2006, 07:42:58 AM
Square could bring ya know ::cough cough:: Sora from Kingdom Hearts who HAS appeared on a nintendo console. . . . . . but thats the GIANT Kingdom Hearts fanboy in me screaming over and over again.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on July 19, 2006, 08:05:39 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Also, Jade brings a great deal more to the table via a stave-based moveset and camera attacks. She also adds to the ailing female presence in SSB games.

On that note, I hope that if they do include Mog, they arm him with a polearm three times his height.  That's how I've always pictured him.  Based on some googling, it looks like he only had a short sword on the cover, but I could swear I saw a poster or something that depicted him with a polearm.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 19, 2006, 08:24:22 AM
It might have been one of the Moogles from FF:TA as I seem to recall them with polearms.

I actually joked that if Kojima keeps bashing the Wii, it's not too late to turn Snake into Sam Fisher in SSBB.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 19, 2006, 08:54:26 AM
Darkheart:  Kingdom of Hearts has never been on a Nintendo console.  In fact the idea that it was on the GBA is all just a mass delusion brought on by aliens.  That game never existed.  NEVER EXISTED.  Don't make me hurt you.

Sam Fisher is from Splinter Cell.  Lord no.  What we get was a character who at times would only be half rendered and a port from another System's fighter.  Blah...  Didn't Ubisoft do Prince of Persia?  I rather have the Prince.  He has some gaming histroy behind him.

I wish I could get a working copy of Beyond Good and Evil.  I finally tracked one down got it home and it won't get past the language selection screen. Arggg...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 19, 2006, 09:11:19 AM
For some reason, BG&E has trouble with older GCs, it would seem.

Yeah, the Prince was mentioned, and while I'd prefer him over Rayman, I don't like the whole "darkening" process he went through, trying to make him more "extreme" and "edgy".

We also need to take into account that SSBB won't be out until 2007, meaning that all of the games launched for the Wii in 2006 could contain possible candidates.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 19, 2006, 09:15:57 AM
Yet another reason I'm getting a Wii, that makes game number 4 that I own now.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 19, 2006, 10:42:27 AM
The problem with Ubisoft charactors is Ubisoft games aren't popular in Japan.  The only third party charactors that are going to get in will be Japanese third party charactors since there's alot that are very popular in the US as well as Japan.  There are no none Japanese third party charactors that have the kind of popularity that appeals to all markets including Japan, since only Japanese third party charactors are really popular in Japan.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 19, 2006, 11:28:14 AM
Jade is not a popular character.  She had one single game, that sold horrible.  The chances of her being in the game are close to zero.


That said, I would like another female character in the mix...so I think we should have her in the game.  It could add some fun to the game...

Though, if the Ubisoft rumors are true...which I personally don't believe...we will get Rayman.  

It is the only character plausible.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 19, 2006, 12:18:15 PM
Is Rayman popular in Japan?

I would still guess a Red Steel character. If there's any Ubisoft game which has a snowball's chance of hell in Japan, it's that one.

And like I said, SSBB will be out long after Red Steel has launched and been absorbed by the markets. It might be a very popular Nintendo exclusive by then or it could bomb (I'm hoping for the former).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 19, 2006, 03:38:37 PM
I can promise you Red Steel will bomb in Japan like all FPS do there.  The only way a non-Japanese third party charactor can get into Brawl would be for them to have been in a game that's sold many millions in America and Europe.  So it would be worth taking a risk that might anger the Japanese since that fanbase in the rest of the world would easily make up for it.  

The only two non-Japanese series that have that kind of success would be Halo and Grand Theft Auto, which we know have no chance in hell of appearing.  So unless Red Steel can gain Halo level success in America and Europe in this next year, chances of a Red Steel charactor appearing are very low.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 19, 2006, 03:42:28 PM
I dunno...

RS stands the best chance of any FPS ever released to do well in Japan:

1. It involves the Japanese crime syndicates.

2. It involves actual swordfighting in addition to gunplay.

I'm not expecting it to do well, but if any FPS has a chance, I think RS is it. With the Wiimote, FPSes become a different animal entirely, one which might appeal far more to the Japanese demographic.

Only time will tell, though.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 19, 2006, 06:22:37 PM
The hammer dude from HAMMER should be in there. He's not third party (Massive Black says they made most of that game but they are contractors so that doesn't count as third party) and won't eat up any of the third party character slots.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 19, 2006, 09:35:08 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: KDR_11k
The hammer dude from HAMMER should be in there. He's not third party (Massive Black says they made most of that game but they are contractors so that doesn't count as third party) and won't eat up any of the third party character slots.


Quoted for truth. I've been thinking that ever since we heard about Project HAMMER.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 20, 2006, 02:13:53 AM
But he'll just look stupid when he grabs the hammer item...

You two think so? I actually liked the idea of Nintendo ushering in both a Hammer and a Day of Disaster character with SSBB but people always shot it down...

Also, the reason I'm ruling out the Prince in my mind is because add him and we're up to about 7 blade-wielding characters if both Marth and Roy stay. Link, WW Link, Metaknight, Pit, Marth, Roy, Prince makes 7, even if you don't count Metaknight and Pit because of their different way of handling bladed weapons, that's still 5 characters waving swords around the place (6 if the 'Dorf is given some form of sword).

I've always loved the PoP games (especially the earlier ones) but we arguably need more moveset creativity than character creativity.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 20, 2006, 02:22:51 AM
Dual weild.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 20, 2006, 02:40:06 AM
Smash:  And zero suit Samus could be described as a sword wielder as well.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 20, 2006, 02:47:34 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Smash:  And zero suit Samus could be described as a sword wielder as well.


I think it's kind of like an electric whip, but you're right, the end result is the same: a character who wields a weapon which counts as an offensive attack and yet cannot BE attacked to harm the character.

One of the main reasons Marth was so damn good in SSBM is because his sword presented an attack which couldn't be countered even after he was finished attacking. For this reason, it was especially good for ledge guarding.

I hope they balance this a bit more in SSBB. Hell, I'm hoping for plenty of balance in general.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on July 20, 2006, 04:05:57 AM
HAMMER dude sounds good to me.

Female characters in Smash?  There aren't a lot of choices out there is the problem.  I mean, popular choices.  You've got fighting game characters like Chun Li, which I don't think should feature in Smash anyway, and then you've got Lara Croft, whose reputation is awfully tarnished.  Maybe they could pull a character out of Square Enix's hat (I vote Terra!)  They could also tap F-Zero for another female character, if it was that important to them.

The point I was getting at, though, is that there aren't a lot of popular female leads in videogames.  Once you eliminate ensemble casts, like RPGs and Fighting games, all you're left with is Lara Croft, Samus and maybe Joanna Dark.  Are there any others?  Or any other well-known damsels in distress like Peach and Zelda?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 20, 2006, 04:21:14 AM
CouchMonkey:  You are right about the female character list being pretty sparse.  It is quite the shame actually.

Right now the only female characters I can think of from Nintendo's lot of characters are:

Birdo
Samus
Zelda
Peach
Jigglypuff
Driller Dozer girl (Actually this would be a very fun character.)

I actually don't see a problem with adding a female fighter from Street Fighter.

Chun Li although would be the obvious choice...I would rather have Sakuri from Alpha, and have her cell-shaded to look like she did in the original games.

Third Party candidates would be:

Jade,
Lara Croft,
Ms. Pac Man?


I dunno...which more.


Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 20, 2006, 04:29:39 AM
Sylvia from Viewtiful Joe.  Even if she represents the whole series.  I would rather not see any characters from other Fighters.  That just isn't appealing to me.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 20, 2006, 05:04:22 AM
I don't know if Capcom will get any characters into SSBB.

I know people love Megaman, but Capcom's support for Nintendo as of late has been...lacking.

They've released at least 7 games for the PSP now (mostly ports, but still). VJ is all-console and they opted to port RE4 to the PS2 despite the fact that it did very well on the cube.

Then again, by my own logic, that doesn't mean much because Konami's support hasn't been that great either and yet Snake is in the game.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 20, 2006, 05:05:06 AM
Jill Valentine.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 20, 2006, 05:54:17 AM
Given RE's presence on the cube, I'd actually suspect an RE character if anything from Capcom.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Darkheart on July 20, 2006, 06:40:03 AM
I dunno we kind of have been getting Capcom Ds titles. . . .

Megaman Battle Network 5
Megaman ZX
New Megaman EXE title
Viewtiful Joe
RE

Thats five titles right there, yet I agree that is way too many PSP to DS titles.  We should be getting more. . . .

I think Viewtiful Joe would be awesome to add to SSBB BUT what makes him cool is all of his special powers i.e. slow down time, fasten it up, zoom, etc etc.   I do not think that would work all too well with the current setup.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 20, 2006, 06:57:46 AM
We will be getting Mega Man.  

Period. The end of story.  I just know it.  And his level will rock.  And have timed platforms that disappear and reappear.  

(ok...this is hopeful, faith based speculation)

Less likely, but still plausibe, is a Bomberman character, and Level.  

But the Mega Man is one of the most easily assured 3rd party characters.

Nintendo has great relation with Capcom, and they have worked together on several projects.

Finally, Mega Man has been on every single Nintendo System since the NES.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 20, 2006, 10:08:25 AM
I agree, out of all the third party charactors Megaman is the most deserving to appear.  Most of his games have games have appeared on Nintendo systems and his best selling and most popular games were all on a Nintendo system as well.  

Plus last generation the Megaman games on the Gamecube sold better then the Megaman games on the PS2, showing where the Megaman fanbase is.  Inafune himself has said that the Wii will be the best system for Megaman games this gen so hopefully that will also have some effect.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on July 20, 2006, 12:02:08 PM
but that leads to the question; which megaman do we get??

most of us prefer the original megaman, and a few others wouldnt mind seeing X (i know i wouldnt, as long as they didnt use any of that special armor stuff, he looks better without it).

i just have a feeling that if we do get mega man, capcom migh want to push the mega man.exe battle crap version since thats supposed to be the new popular version. maybe its unfair of me to judge since i've never tried the games (they dont come off as appealing) but the character design is horrible IMO. i would rather not have megaman in SSBB than to have the weakest looking version. i thought the Legends/64 character design looked bad but this one takes the cake. oh and while ranting about bad character design, if they want to give us the MMZ version of zero they might as well not give us anything at all.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 20, 2006, 12:50:25 PM
How about the potential of all 3.

Different players can get different models.

However, if I had to guess we would get the character model which the development team deems the most recognizable and classic.  Which means, a character model which looks more like the classic Mega Man than any other.

However, it is important to note, that the character model will be completely new and may have details and a look very unique, for past incarnations.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 20, 2006, 12:56:09 PM
His default costume would be the original, 2nd would be X, 3rd would be Legends and 4th would be EXE.

Most of the charactors in Melee had four costumes so this would fit Megaman perfectly.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on July 20, 2006, 02:49:10 PM
i've thought of that as well but the multiple costumes of that sort would require different character models and not just recolors. recolors would work fine for the mega man and mega man x versions of the character since that was his nature, but a MML model would be blue only, and i dont know about the exe version.

if they did make different character models (different polygons) then they would have to do so for all characters. for example: Mario/Caped Mario/Tanuki Mario/Hammer Mario (or any other version, a sunshine mario with sunglasses and hiwain shirt would be good for a laugh)

if i could pose as Smash_Brother for a second: making different polygon models for each, or any character, would take time away from the multiplayer game, which is what the game is known for.

smash im not mocking you, i do feel this way; i'd much rather have recolor costumes then a brand new character model costume. that way, they could give mega man a quickman recolor so i could kick ass with a pink megaman ;-)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on July 20, 2006, 03:28:14 PM
I would love skins..
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 20, 2006, 03:45:24 PM
But that could be Pharoah Mans power... o,O   lol.
As long as we get one more in the spirit of the NES Megaman.  Not this new big head or silly k1ddy looking Megaman they try to say is the classic.  Megaman from the one of the greatest parts of the series.  Megaman 2.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 20, 2006, 05:58:58 PM
Megaman would be a Samus clone. Nothx.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on July 21, 2006, 01:53:54 AM
You just want Megaman to be Roll instead of Rock...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 21, 2006, 02:07:41 AM
Dirk:  Technically, Samus would be Mega Man clone.

Ok..joking around.

Mega Man has alot of potential to be vastly different than Samus...and as it stands we only have one character that is advantageous at long range...and we have like what 4 sword wielders?  And 3 Heavy Weights?  I think we can stand Mega Man.

I have mentioned it before, but how you Make Mega Man great and unique...is you pull his powers from different Mega Man abilities he gains.

Leaf Shield, Slide, power shot/blaster, Gemini Lasers, Torando shot.

You could even have him have a move that rotates his abilities...and potentially he has a limited amount of shots for each item.  (Health can replenish this)  

Tons of ways to make him unique.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Pale on July 21, 2006, 02:31:03 AM
This was probably already said, but I haven't read this thread.

Anyway, I totally think Simon Belmont should be in this game.  I mean, he's got more Nintendo cred then snake and Konami has already shown they are willing.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 21, 2006, 02:56:15 AM
I think Belmont is a given unless Konami isn't allowed to enter a second char.

Capcom could give them Megaman. Perhaps Iwata could ask them about favours "We let you make the Zelda games for the handheld, can we use Megaman in our franchise fighter?". Or they could talk with Namco about Link being in Soul Calibur and such.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on July 21, 2006, 04:10:20 AM
mega man can be set apart by samus by letting him charge while moving  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 21, 2006, 04:22:33 AM
Seriously, what third party developer would refuse Nintendo if they asked for one of their characters to be in one of the biggest fighting game franchises.

Nintendo is very respectful to characters, and it could only help the popularity of your character.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 21, 2006, 04:37:00 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Seriously, what third party developer would refuse Nintendo if they asked for one of their characters to be in one of the biggest fighting game franchises.

Nintendo is very respectful to characters, and it could only help the popularity of your character.
Wspecially if you are about to release another game using that character/franchise on a Nintendo platform.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 21, 2006, 05:15:39 AM
BlackNMild:

Exactly.  I seriously don't think it would be the third parties that refused...at least not the Japanese 3rd parties that still hold alot of respect for Nintendo and their game designers.

The 3rd party characters are going to be handpicked by the development team...so we have to look at it from the perspective of which characters actually fit for the series, then go by popularity.

For Example:

Jill Valetine from Resident Evil.  Although it would flesh out the female characters in the list, she wouldn't fit.

Mega Man would fit.

Drill Dozer would fit, and I hope she is in the game...but with just one single game, the chances are unlikely.

Sonic completely fits that game as he is the defination of a Mascot character.

Viewtiful Joe as well fits, and he has a pretty good chance as he game is about fighting, and started on a Nintendo system...however Red Hot Rumble didn't do great...so perhaps not.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Pale on July 21, 2006, 06:29:01 AM
I don't know if you were implying this Spak, but Jill from Drill Dozer is first party all the way.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 21, 2006, 06:41:24 AM
Kojima "begged" Nintendo to get Snake into the game.

I think it will give Nintendo fans more of a reason to appreciate the character than it will give Snake fans a reason to buy SSBB.

I'm sure it'll help from both sides, but the character will get exposure from players who were going to buy Brawl anyway: the Nintendo fans.

If anything, we might see a sales spike in MGS:TS for GC (from 0 to something).
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Athrun Zala on July 21, 2006, 10:26:17 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
If anything, we might see a sales spike in MGS:TS for GC (from 1 to something).
fixed (I have the game afterall )

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 21, 2006, 10:42:58 AM
Oh yeah, about Capcom:

Viewtiful Joe>Megaman. He would fit so much more than Megaman would.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 21, 2006, 11:44:51 AM
But the Viewtiful Joe series isn't very popular.  Megaman is a videogame icon who's known by millions, Viewtiful Joe is know by a small group of us hardcore gamers and that's it.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 21, 2006, 12:45:21 PM
Pale:  No I knew that Jill was first party...I just didn't know how well received the game was...and I think I was focusing on new female characters for the game.

Luigi Dude:  Actually Viewtiful Joe is very popular...you don't get an animated television show based off your game, unless there is some popularity surrounding it.  

I am not comparing Viewtiful Joe to Mega Man though.  Mega Man is a iconic now.  I beat you can show the character Mega Man around and people will recognize the character even if they don't play video games.  They may not be able to name the character, but they will recognize it.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 21, 2006, 01:19:25 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Athrun Zala fixed (I have the game afterall )


Oh, I meant right now, like the present sales of MGS on the Cube.

I hope lots bought it. I've bought it twice now.

Great game, it's just that the director happens to make Tingle look straight and serious.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 22, 2006, 09:44:51 AM
From the Sept Nintendo Power:

Michel Ancel on Rayman Raving Rabbids and Wii: “(Wii) It’s so different from the other consoles that we decided to reconsider everything…We believe in the Wii and building gameplay around the controller. So now we are designing Raving Rabbids specifically (It’s an EXCLUSIVE!) for the Wii. It’s not just an adaptation. It’s a very special project, because this is really a revolution for us. Now we have to focus on one version - the Wii version.”

That cinches it. If Ubi contributes a character to SSBB, it's going to be Rayman.

In the interest of this news, I rented Rayman 3 and I have to say it ain't bad at all.

I have no IDEA how the hell it got an "E" rating because not only are some of the characters making off-color jokes but there's some blatant sexual innuendo to boot. The game is loaded with voices, with every character having something to say, and it's there that you'll find these jokes.

The game is relatively fun, as well, though the plot hangs together a bit on the loose side. It was an all-console release which would explain why it lacks some polish, but there have been a few gameplay segments which make me sit forward on the couch and grin with excitement (like the between level warps were you jump rapidly from track to track on a snowboard and when you take control of a "mech" of sorts and press the A button to stop on enemies).

The camera is pretty loose, as is the control scheme, but overall, it's a pretty fun game thus far. Now that I know a bit more of Rayman's story and his abilities, I wouldn't mind seeing him in SSBB, especially if Ubi is willing to make Rabids a Wii exclusive.

Rayman has always seemed like a background mascot to me: I never knew much about him, only that he was kinda "there". Now that I've tried one of his games, he seems like he'd fit right into SSBB and he'd likely give SSB fans more of a reason to pick up Rabids (which I'm guessing will be quite good as well).

I have more faith in games which are single console. Aside from the fact that Rabids being designed for the Wii will no doubt control better overall, I've never seen a game be all console and not have it's quality suffer from it somewhat. It's only logical: having to spread your resources over three different architectures cannot help but divert resources from polishing the game.

It's this lack of polish I see in Rayman 3. Not only would Rabids likely be better graphically if it's exclusive, but I'm betting we'll see an overall better quality to the game.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the inclusion of Rayman in SSBB which would push Ansel and Ubi over the edge when it came to making it a Wii exclusive. Nintendo knew that adding Marth and Roy to SSBM would garner interest in FE in the states (and it did).

I should have seen this coming, honestly. Not too long ago, I was pointing out that Nintendo is making more of an effort to reach out to 3rd parties when it comes to supporting their consoles, with Iwata being the diplomat that he is. At E3 press conferences past, it would have been highly unlikely that Nintendo would have a 3rd party (Ubi) up on stage presenting a game.

No doubt, putting Rayman into SSBB would have enough of an effect that hardcore Nintendo fans would be more likely to pick up Rabids. It's kind of Nintendo's way of saying "These guys are our friends, too. Try their games." and continues to bolster 3rd party support on the Wii.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 23, 2006, 12:00:22 AM
Rayman was released on the PC, PS, Jaguar and Saturn. But then again Snake had his first appearance on the MSX...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 23, 2006, 08:28:15 AM
I know, but I think Ubi's current support bodes quite well for Rayman to appear in SSBB.

I'm considering more the here and now than past. Rayman has appeared on a few Nintendo consoles and Ubi and Nintendo have apparently become rather close.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on July 23, 2006, 06:22:16 PM
I like the idea of Rayman in SSBB.  He could have his old-school boomerang fist thingy.  And helicopter hair. O:

Capcom should give us Harmen Smith.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 24, 2006, 03:01:37 AM
On the subject, I'd like to see a character from either Ouendan or Elite Beat Agents.

In fact, I was kinda hoping Captain Kai would also be the leader of the EBAs because then he could be in both games and all his attacks would look like dance/cheers.

If you haven't played Ouendan, do yourself a favor and give EBA a try when it's released: the games are AWESOME.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 24, 2006, 09:35:07 AM
Hehe.

HOw about an Odama item...where the giant ball falls on the field and rolls one direction or the other Smashing everything in its site.  That could be fun...and quite scary.  

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on July 24, 2006, 09:41:40 AM
Does anyone have a video (or a link to one) of all the character entrances to the original Super Smash Bros?  For the life of me I can't remember what they look like, and I don't have my N64 handy.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 24, 2006, 09:47:44 AM
Snakes doesn't fit.  He's just plain ugly.

Jill Valentine would already fit cuz she already has a silly moves arsenal from the VS. Capcom games.  Summon zombies and launch rockets! HOOOOOOOOOOOOO

VJ would not fit on a gameplay basis.  His gameplay style is too distinct and flexible to force SSB mechanics onto.  It'd hurt him.

Simon Belmont would simply be badass.  He's look into his mirror all day and pose and stuff.

and stuff and stuff and stuff

oh, and Mega Man, a MEGA MAN X TRANSFORMATION SUPER CHARGO BLASTO would be his super move.  Or some ultimo Beat + Rush combo =D
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on July 24, 2006, 11:22:15 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
VJ would not fit on a gameplay basis.  His gameplay style is too distinct and flexible to force SSB mechanics onto.


Huh? VJ plays exactly like SSBM Adventure Mode version 2.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 25, 2006, 02:23:00 AM
I don't get how Viewtiful Joe doesn't fit either.

Yes, we would have to figure out a means to balance his Slowmo, and Fast movements, but it is possible.

For instance:  Slowmo could be used when he blocks.  Instead of a shield, you see him doing his awesome slowmotion dodges.

Zoom In: Could be used when he throws someone, his size gets slightly bigger (not mushroom bigger) and it shows the special throw attack.

Fast Forward:  This could be one of his special moves.  Like Bowser he can trigger it and untrigger it at the push of a button, but it is timed how long you can use it...and if you use it too long you turn into regular Joe, and lose that power.

Actually, the whole idea of incredible power but balanced with the chance of turning into Regular Joe would make a great character for Smash Brothers Brawl.  It would be something new.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 25, 2006, 07:20:18 AM
1.  Joe pretty much punches and kicks without restrictions.  The frames are fast, the moves end as quickly as they begin, for easy enduring chaining.  Practically all historic SSB characters don't have this luxury.

2.  He punches AND kicks.  that's 2 buttons.

3.  His special moves are "selfish" and require the game attention to center on HIM, and his VFX abilities work well not simply because Joe gets snazzy powers, but because Slow & Mach-Speed (the 2 important ones) AFFECT THE GAME WORLD.  VJ is about taking "center stage," literally, which does not fall in line with the "common canvas" nature of SSB.

I personally think Joe's gameplay is too defined and elaborate to fit into SSB's rules.  Crippled novelty versions of the abilities would be weak.

Particularly Slow-Mo.  That ability is used SO MUCH throughout the game that it's awkward to not use it, and it's awkward to rely on VJ's standard, non-enhanced moves.

The grand scheme works for Mario, Link, Samus, Belmonts, Mega Men, etc. cuz mechanically they haven't CHANGED MUCH since their golden days.

But Joe's not your classic walk-jump-attack 8-bit character, as is the mold which govern's SSB's core mechanics.  Joe(including the game itself) was designed to go beyond that with substantial twists.  The dependence on his special abilities RATHER than his core/default abililties sets him apart from the classics.

He'd end up like Ganondorf -- stripped of his flare (why must you deprive him of his pieces of flare?), rebuilt, and much less exciting.

WEAKNESS.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 25, 2006, 07:43:48 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666 He'd end up like Ganondorf -- stripped of his flare (why must you deprive him of his pieces of flare?), rebuilt, and much less exciting.


I'm glad someone agrees with me on that.

The "Great King of Evil" getting his ass kicked by Pikachu is fundamentally wrong.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 25, 2006, 04:23:19 PM
Professional 666:  I think you have to let the game how each character is crafted, not the character define each game.  

Smash Brothers is a game that has taken several different game design structures and characters and somehow managed to get them all to meld together into a beautiful fighter.  I could use the exact same logic and say Pikachu, Marth, Roy, Blue Falcon, and more shouldn't be in Smash Brothers...because their original incarnations were never meant for Smash Brother type designed game.

I took the concepts behind what made Viewtiful Joe an interesting character and morphed it into something that fit Smash Brothers.

For instance:  You don't have to have a kick and punch button.  You can develop kicks and punches with the single attack button.

The SlowMo can be to represent his shield as he dodges attacks in style.  A variation of the same skill he had in the game, but done in a new manner.  Basically, he slows down to dodge, but the action doesn't....or the action around his frame does.  Simple.

Fast Forward can be  a special move that gives him a temporary speed and strength boost.

Viewtiful Joe can be done.  He would be different, but still Joe.  You just aren't willing to think outside the box...which is totally neccessary when creating putting existing characters in new situations.

Just look at Solid Snake, do you actually believe he will play in the same manner or even style as he would in his own games?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 25, 2006, 04:55:29 PM
If we got a character from Capcom, it'll probably be Megaman. He fits into the mold of the "mascot" and has been around much, much longer.

He and Nintendo have a longer history as well, though I'm not 100% sure we'll see a Capcom character.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 26, 2006, 04:09:49 AM
Joe can't use his special moves in Red Hot Rumble AFAIK (only played the preview build at the GC Leipzig), they are only available through powerups.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 27, 2006, 06:31:49 AM
Oh we will get a Capcom Character.  I feel it in my bones.  Capcom will have some Smash'N Love.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on July 27, 2006, 07:17:57 AM
Viewtiful Joe is what it is because it was designed outside the box to begin with.  I say putting Joe in SSBB is shoving him INTO a box.

See, I can see Snake working really well cuz there ISN'T MUCH TO TAKE AWAY from him.  He's another "classic," who does things at a "normal" pace with a straightforward mechanics.  He doesn't rely on complex chains of moves.   Move, duck.  Move, punch-punch-kick.  Move, drop explosive.  Move, toss grenade.  Hell he's been closely tied to the ground in his past 3D incarnations, and that makes him worlds simpler than 3D Mario (tho I always thought MGS's running/ducking mechanics need an overhaul cuz it's quite stiff if Twins Snakes tried to tell me anything).  And adding new moves should be easy since Snake's existing moves in his EXISTING games still work after removing one dimensional plane -- a lot like guiding him through a narrow hallway.

It should be stressed that the way Movie Land responds to VFX Powers goes hand-in-hand with Joe's actions, meaning Joe by himself isn't the complete character.  Clover believed in this, and they tried to maintain the VFX effects in Red Hot Rumble (which I do not have yet) in a multiplayer setting, but apparently the media elite determined the game was BROKEN in it current scheme.

HAL did such a great job adapting NINTENDO'S characters to the SSB formula.  The vast majority of SSBM's classic cast are VERY MUCH like their in-game renditions (excluding weird character adaptations that involved introducing a unique move set and personality, such as Captain Falcon; this would be "new" rather than "different").

You say Joe would be different, the point I'm making is Joe SHOULD NOT be different.  I don't want another Ganondorf.  And SLOW would just make Joe a sitting duck if everything around him didn't slow down.  I hear SSBM is a fast game.

Hands off Joe.

~~~~~

Capcom will include Arthur and SSBB will be the worst game ever.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 27, 2006, 08:45:35 AM
It's going to be Megaman if Capcom makes any kind of contribution.

Megaman is a mascot who has represented Capcom since the earliest days of its existence on the NES. If Capcom has a contribution, it'll more than likely be him.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 27, 2006, 10:31:36 AM
Megaman is also Capcom's most popular charactor and best known.  They've made more Megaman games then any other franchise they've had and used him for cameo's in alot of games as well.

Because of this I'm sure Nintendo would also want Megaman since he would fit the best because of his popularity and history.  Snake and Sonic both fit that status and Megaman is the only other charactor that has appeared on a Nintendo system with this type of status, so from him not to appear would just be mind boggling.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 27, 2006, 06:57:24 PM
Yes, if Capcom is in and Inafune doesn't go psycho again we'll get Megaman. But I wouldn't take it for granted that Capcom contributes. And of course Inafune seems to be a PSP fanboy lately.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on July 28, 2006, 04:42:52 AM
I think it's time Tingle graduated to being a playable SSB character. His cameo in SSBM was just a taste! Now that he has his own game there's a huge chance of him being in this!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 28, 2006, 05:02:02 AM
I think he'll probably replace Mr. Game & Watch as the most hilariously useless character available.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on July 28, 2006, 05:04:37 AM
Oh yeah, the character everyone spends hundreds of hours doing tasks trying to find out who that last empty space is, only to say "what the hell?".
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 28, 2006, 05:36:30 AM
Actually, Mr. Tingle would be a great character...just like Mr. Game and Watch.  Basically, G&M is a great insult character to use to beat your opponent with...much in the same vain as Jigglypuff.

If Mr. Tingle was an unlockable with some interesting and useful moves it would a great addition.  

"Don't worry I will handicapped myself...I will play as Mr. Tingle."  

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on July 28, 2006, 08:46:43 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang "Don't worry I will handicapped myself...I will play as Mr. Tingle."


I became a great Bowser player using that excuse.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 28, 2006, 10:01:30 AM
I'd like Tingle to be in the game just to see Matts reaction at IGN.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: KDR_11k on July 28, 2006, 05:29:25 PM
Basically, G&M is a great insult character to use to beat your opponent with...much in the same vain as Jigglypuff.

Hey, no dissin' the 'puff!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on July 31, 2006, 06:22:00 PM
Kojima
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 01, 2006, 06:18:31 AM
KDR:  Oh I am not dissing the Puff.  She can be a great character, but it takes GREAT skill to be able to use her effectively.  

Basically, I am saying it is good useable character, that is embarrassing to be beat by, because who the character is.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 08, 2006, 09:27:26 AM
Taken from an argument in another thread...

Quote

The Marios themselves are top tier too, so it's a poor example


The current agreed SSBM tier list is as follows:

Top Tier:
Fox
Falco

High Tier:
Sheik
Marth
Peach

Middle Tier:
Captain Falcon
Ice Climbers
Samus
Doctor Mario
Jigglypuff
Mario
Ganondorf

Low Tier:
Link
Luigi
Donkey Kong
Roy
Young Link
Pikachu

Bottom Tier:
Yoshi
Zelda
Mr. Game and Watch
Ness
Bowser
Kirby
Pichu
Mewtwo


This was updated based on recent tournament winnings from just last month by SBR who keeps track of these things based on nation wide tournaments.

Quote

The same is true for Melee, but you will never admit to it.


No, I'm pretty sure that players who have naturally superior reflexes will have no trouble overwhelming and chain comboing their opponents into submission because the game moves that much more quickly, giving people who aren't typically gamers less time to react than SSB did.

Like I said, I think 75-85% of SSBM's current speed would be perfect for Brawl.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 08, 2006, 09:38:01 AM
God, stfu already.

Some of us don't go to tournaments.

Like 99.9% of us.

So we don't f*cking care.

Take your personal agenda bullsh*t elsewhere.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 08, 2006, 09:42:24 AM
I think it lose some of its charm slower.  Also I'm going to say this now and you can get offended if you want but if you only play final destination then I consider you a loser.  If they wanted flat levels they all be flat.  I'm sure it's a tournament thing but it makes this whole thing feel artificial.  Though mark my words when brawl comes out if most of the levels are flat like that I'm going to have a rant so long and incoherent it won't be funny. <rest left out for not wanting to be banned or morale decapitating the developement before they release the game and give me a reason for them to deserve it>
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 08, 2006, 09:45:46 AM
a little harsh, and a tad to blunt.

I don't go to tournaments either, but the unbalance I see in the game is annoying. You have to work really, really hard to beat sheik with link... but that makes it just so much more rewarding.

There will always be tiers; the current game is still my all-time fav. fighter (better than WCW/NWO Revenge); WiiConnect24 will correct any problems with the next game.

finally, my reflexes aren't godly but I've gotten used to melee's speed... anything slower will just seem... well.. too slow. I might like to try it out to see how quick I can be, but ultimately I love the game the way it is.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on August 08, 2006, 09:48:53 AM
I have to agree with the majority here.  We're not trying to pick on you, but what you're looking for won't necessarily make the game more fun.  (That's what counts; fun.)Most of us don't really like fighting games.  That's why we like Super Smash Bros so much.

I watched the Ness vs Ness fight (you can see it here) and it was the most boring thing I've ever watched in my life.  If I had been in that fight you can bet your ass I would have been shooting myself all around the level with my electricity ball and I would break out the bat like it was nobody's business.

Most of us just want a fun game--give us crazy (and nostalgic) levels, cool weapons, some new fighters, maybe a couple extra single player modes and we'll be happy.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 08, 2006, 09:56:43 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric I think it lose some of its charm slower.  Also I'm going to say this now and you can get offended if you want but if you only play final destination then I consider you a loser.  If they wanted flat levels they all be flat.  I'm sure it's a tournament thing but it makes this whole thing feel artificial.  Though mark my words when brawl comes out if most of the levels are flat like that I'm going to have a rant so long and incoherent it won't be funny. <rest left out for not wanting to be banned or morale decapitating the developement before they release the game and give me a reason for them to deserve it>


I don't just play final D, and the level variety is one of the aspects which makes any SSB worth playing. I was immensely pleased with the sheer number of levels in Melee except for a few cases of the "flat stage + 3 platforms" layout being used a bit too often.

I just don't think the emphasis should be on reflex over strategy and timing. The original SSB favors players who know how to watch their opponents to see when they expose their weak points (like after finishing an up+b, for example). The strategy comes from trying to force your opponent into that situation and, IMHO, made SSB what it was.

Melee obviously favors the same, but the timing windows are drastically smaller because the game moves drastically faster. Likewise, properly defending yourself is more difficult because everything happens much faster than it did in the original.

From the sounds of it, this was not Sakurai's intention, and the fact that he went so far as to mention that the game speed will be adjusted is further indication of this.

Ideally, however, the game should have a "speed adjustment" setting which changes the game speed to your desired setting. That way players who want to play the game on ultra-turbo mode can do so but those who would like something which feels more like the original SSB could have that too.

They already did this in Hyper/SloMo and practice modes in Melee. There's no reason why a speed selector couldn't be part of the main game as well.

Quote

finally, my reflexes aren't godly but I've gotten used to melee's speed... anything slower will just seem... well.. too slow. I might like to try it out to see how quick I can be, but ultimately I love the game the way it is.


This is one more reason I'm glad they're slowing it down a bit: I'm 25 now and I'm not getting any younger. My reflexes can only get worse from here on in and I'd like to be able to enjoy Brawl for as long as possible.

Quote

I have to agree with the majority here. We're not trying to pick on you, but what you're looking for won't necessarily make the game more fun. (That's what counts; fun.)Most of us don't really like fighting games. That's why we like Super Smash Bros so much.


That's fair. I only suggest balance and adjustment of the game speed because I DO feel it will make the game more enjoyable. A lot of the regular SSB players I know were turned off by Melee due to its focus on speed over strategy.

To be honest, one of the reasons I loved the original so much was due to the fact that, unlike "Street Fighter SuperMegaTurboAlphaIII", SSB's combat was paced and as such put more strategy into the game.

Quote

Most of us just want a fun game--give us crazy (and nostalgic) levels, cool weapons, some new fighters, maybe a couple extra single player modes and we'll be happy.


Ironically, that's all I wanted from the SSB sequel: more stuff, same EXACT engine.

I have reasonable hopes for Brawl simply because Sakurai has expressed interest in bringing the game back to its roots a bit. I not hoping for SSB 2.0, but some minor tweaks and balancing of existing characters and Brawl could replace SSB as my favorite.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 08, 2006, 10:04:25 AM
I'm just throwing in the towel at this stage, as the discussion seems to be moving further and further away from the original debate about the tiers ruining the game.

Also, I'm well aware of the Smashboards tier list, but never agreed with the fact that Marth is outside of the top when those players are so common in the Japanese tournaments, among other things. The fact that it's constantly updating makes it seem less like these tiers are so set in stone that it hampers the game much either, and, again, it makes no consideration for other styles of play, like the diverse stages and free-for-alls.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 08, 2006, 10:18:07 AM
I have to disagree with that.  Out of my group of friends I have the worst reflexes of all of them but I'm one of the top Melee players.  I'm a Luigi player while the rest play as Marth, Fox, Shiek, Donkey Kong, Roy, and Samus.

Plus I never put faith in Tier list.  
I like how Fox is top Tier yet, I beat the Fox player of the group most of the time I play him.  He's a really good player too, but I'm just better as Luigi.  The two that match my level are the Marth and Samus player and we're about even in wins against each other.

Plus the Samus player played a tournament while at college last year and came in second place.  The winner was a Jigglypuff player.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 08, 2006, 10:20:59 AM
It's funny.  Looking at that tier breakdown, I realized that the characters I most enjoy using tend toward the bottom of the list, and the characters my best friend prefers tend toward the top.  Even so, I win most of the time we play.  Of course, we always pick random stages, almost always play with a couple of high-ish level cpu players in the fray, and play timed matches.  That's no doubt very different from tournament play.  With the exception of sudden death, I find one on one matches in Melee incredibly boring.  In the original, I liked stock matches, but once it was down to two people in Melee the fighting got too predictable.  Anyway, I'd say our reflexes are close to even, though I have better timing in general, but I tend to think ahead more.  I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but he has told me that it sometimes feels like I'm playing Super Smash Chess.  So I'd say reflexes aren't quite as important to good playing as being able to think on your feet.  Also, I'd say timing instead of reflexes, which is related, but not quite the same.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 08, 2006, 10:22:20 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok I'm just throwing in the towel at this stage, as the discussion seems to be moving further and further away from the original debate about the tiers ruining the game.


I never said they RUINED the game, but that I didn't like having to factor them in when considering tests of skill.

If they RUNIED the game, I wouldn't play it, which is CERTAINLY not the case.

Quote

Also, I'm well aware of the Smashboards tier list, but never agreed with the fact that Marth is outside of the top when those players are so common in the Japanese tournaments, among other things. The fact that it's constantly updating makes it seem less like these tiers are so set in stone that it hampers the game much either, and, again, it makes no consideration for other styles of play, like the diverse stages and free-for-alls.


The top and high tiers seem to be trading back and forth on occasion, but the same bunch seems to stay up there.

But look at the link I posted from the SSB forums: the debate we're having is the one which is still had to this very DAY across SSB boards everywhere, and most seem to be split 50/50 between those who feel the tiers matter and those who don't think they matter at all.

I just happen to be from the former camp, but if this discussion hasn't been resolved across SSB messageboards yet, then I can't fathom how we'd resolve it here.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 08, 2006, 10:24:22 AM
I wouldn't mind a speed slider that wouldn't take away. (DDR has it.  My freinds swears that every song is easier and better at 1.5)
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 08, 2006, 10:49:57 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
I have to disagree with that.  Out of my group of friends I have the worst reflexes of all of them but I'm one of the top Melee players.  I'm a Luigi player while the rest play as Marth, Fox, Shiek, Donkey Kong, Roy, and Samus.


I love Luigi players. He's harder to control then most, and I never was able to get the character to his true potentional, but in the right hands he is truly scary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDVtQ-q15nA

Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
I wouldn't mind a speed slider that wouldn't take away. (DDR has it.  My freinds swears that every song is easier and better at 1.5)


Same. The speed in both Melee and the N64 version were fine for me, and a way to alter this beyond the "Slow, Normal, Hyper" would probably be best with something 5 or 6 degrees of speed to play with.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 08, 2006, 11:11:12 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
I love Luigi players. He's harder to control then most, and I never was able to get the character to his true potentional, but in the right hands he is truly scary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDVtQ-q15nA

So scary that CF player fled off the stage from him twice.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 08, 2006, 11:14:52 AM
I have stated this before...but since this thread likes to restate things.

I personally found the speed and pacing of the original to be alittle easier to get into and more fun in 3-4 player games.

I just found that the original was much easier to keep track of players, and plan attacks.  My group never really played with Fox and Falcon so I never knew if they were balanced or not.  But I do know my group never tried to break the system and develop cheap manuevers.  

When Melee came out, the graphics, added moves, and overall depth of the game was music to all my friends ears...but soon I was the only person that played the game.

The level design was either too big, making it hard to engage in battle and keep track of everything on screen, or too small for the additional speed increase in the game.

Now, a moment on that Speed.  Ever since Shaq Fu, I think people believed that Speed made a fighting game.  But although Shaq Fu advertised being the fastest fighting game...it wasn't fun or engaging.  The speed sometimes hindered the game.  

In Melee, I think the new added Speed hurt the game.  All the added depth to the game became harder to pull off with the new speed, and sometimes pointless to pull off.  Why catch an object thrown at you, when while you are spending that time catching the object your opponent is on the  other side of you planning a new attack?  Yes, I know there could be reasons for it...but it felt less important or cool.

Melee is still a brilliant and truly special game, but it can be tweaked and improved upon.  Just like Melee improved upon the original in scope.  

However, slowing Melee down and somewhat simplifying the game will be an overall plus to the series.  

1)The varying shield strengths thing needs to go.  complicated and pointless.
2)Speed needs to be slowed down.  Somewhere inbetween Melee and the original will be perfect.
3)Damage and Smash abilities for all characters need to be tweaked much better.
4)Weight classes need more benefits and consequences to balance eachother out more.  

Do these much needed improvements from Melee's design mean that Melee is bad.  Hell No.  It just means that fighting games are hard to develop and achieve perfect, and this game could use more tweaks to the overall system.

Remember, this may be the last Smash Brothers game we get.  Lets hope that it is as perfect of a game as we can get.

Can lets hope they add:

Mega Man
and
Bomber Man.

(yea...I am a broken record, Sue me.)
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 08, 2006, 11:18:34 AM
This is an interesting debate, for me I prefer Melee over the original. Personally I enjoyed the larger stages and hope that does not change in Brawl. Not sure about the balancing debate because frankly I never played with anyone that was that good and I usually used Bowser or DK, and did fine.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 08, 2006, 12:40:55 PM
I don't mind large stages.  One of my favorite stages in Melee is Zelda's castle stage.  It was big, but functional.

However, some of the moving stages were almost unplayable...and you battled against the stage more than your opponents.  

In many ways, I think the smaller levels (specially the ones from the original N64 game) really were hurt with the new speed.  In those levels it seemed you could get from one end of the level to the other in less than a second.  Fighting with that little of a space with that much speed wasn't fun.

The whole game felt more complicated, and more frantic and chaotic at the same time...and chaotic is usually a good thing, but not in this case.  My friends stopped playing because it was too hard to tell what was going on in 4 Player games.  It wasn't fun, and we quickly went back to playing TimeSplitters 2/3 are our game of choice for multiplayer.  

That saddened me a great deal, because I loved playing the original Smash Brothers and thought it was always a fun multiplayer diversion.  Too bad, the sequel (for me and my friends) turned out to not bring the same thrills.

 
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 08, 2006, 12:53:53 PM
Well, to each his own. For me and my friends, it has always been Melee since we first got. If there is any multiplayer gaming that's going to be done (although there has been much less of that since high school was over) it's either going to be a current flavor of the month game, or Melee.

Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
However, some of the moving stages were almost unplayable...and you battled against the stage more than your opponents.


Isn't that part of the point? Personally, I don't care for the Ice Climber level much due to the way it's constructed, but the Rainbow Ride was great for its intended purpose as it added yet another very different way to play the game.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: R3ronaldo on August 08, 2006, 12:55:48 PM
I hope they have Kalas from Baten kaitos
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on August 08, 2006, 01:09:25 PM
For GOD'S SAKE!

... Look, we may all have our hang-ups but perhaps we can agree on ONE thing?

SSBB will be a better game WITH Sakurai heading it than without.

No matter your complaints, just imagine the game without Sakurai and be happy.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 08, 2006, 01:25:50 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
SSBB will be a better game WITH Sakurai heading it than without.

No matter your complaints, just imagine the game without Sakurai and be happy.


I don't think anyone will argue that point. I was very worried when he left Nintendo a few years back, and couldn't imagine another game in the series without them. So, suffice to say, I was estatic when they annouced he would be directing the third.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 08, 2006, 02:51:33 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang The whole game felt more complicated, and more frantic and chaotic at the same time...and chaotic is usually a good thing, but not in this case.  My friends stopped playing because it was too hard to tell what was going on in 4 Player games.  It wasn't fun, and we quickly went back to playing TimeSplitters 2/3 are our game of choice for multiplayer.  

That saddened me a great deal, because I loved playing the original Smash Brothers and thought it was always a fun multiplayer diversion.  Too bad, the sequel (for me and my friends) turned out to not bring the same thrills.


Spak, this and your post before it summarized my situation to the letter. If two people were in the room together, the N64 controllers came out and SSB was played, period. Melee has just never had that same pull.

On that note, they need to have an option to turn the screen shake OFF. When Pichu hits the ground, does the screen really need to oscillate back and forth a few times? It's as though SSBM emphasized glitz and speed over the gameplay that made its predecessor legendary.

And of course I'm happy to see Sakurai back. I like what I've heard from him already on the subject of changes being made to the game.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 08, 2006, 03:01:31 PM
I think Melee suffers from Jack-of-All-Trades Syndrome.  It wanted to be everything for everyone but in the end became something for everyone and everyone had a thorn in their side.  On thinking about it I agree the speed was too fast from the standpoint of it negated a lot of the new features.  Namely dodging.  They added a dodge system but I never bothered with dodging or even trying to hit things back because the moves where to hard to pull off with the speed everything was going.  Some weapons, Samus projectiles period, were just to slow to be truly effective.  It was like everyone was designed for a slightly different speed and at the last minute they upped it.

Now that I've said that.  Most of the time "Easier" means "Less Depth."  Melee had "easy to pick up but tough to master" play.  Basic moveset about anyone can pickup in a few rounds.  Dodges, the more convoluted special moves, and just truly tapping the full potential of the character took time and practice.  I still want that but from the information we know now I think they're going for a more theatrical approach this time.  Having battles that approach art.  That's all nice and everything but once you get over the Wow factor of something like that theres no real core of fun in art.  Theirs a core of art in art and art ain't happy.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 08, 2006, 03:07:58 PM
I thought SSB was perfect. I remember we were still discovering things about the way the physics worked even after years of owning it.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 08, 2006, 03:08:19 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
For GOD'S SAKE!

... Look, we may all have our hang-ups but perhaps we can agree on ONE thing?

SSBB will be a better game WITH Sakurai heading it than without.

No matter your complaints, just imagine the game without Sakurai and be happy.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com


That game would be called Shrek SuperSlam ::shudders::
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 08, 2006, 05:16:56 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

If two people were in the room together, the N64 controllers came out and SSB was played, period. Melee has just never had that same pull.



That's funny, 'cuz it's the same with me, only with Melee.

And I hereby decree my anecdotal evidence to be greater than yours.
 
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 08, 2006, 06:11:08 PM
I emulated SSB on our hacked Xbox tonight: I had forgotten just how great it was.

It feels a bit simpler, but the same novelty which made the game so great is very much alive and well.

I forgot how much I had missed some of these levels. Definitely going to be snagging SSB for the VC.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 08, 2006, 07:39:26 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Strell
That's funny, 'cuz it's the same with me, only with Melee.

And I hereby decree my anecdotal evidence to be greater than yours.


Oh snap!

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I forgot how much I had missed some of these levels. Definitely going to be snagging SSB for the VC.


Yes, I will never understand why the Yoshi Story level and the Kirby Dreamland ones were picked over Zelda's Castle for the classic stages.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Infernal Monkey on August 08, 2006, 11:48:26 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

On that note, they need to have an option to turn the screen shake OFF. When Pichu hits the ground, does the screen really need to oscillate back and forth a few times? It's as though SSBM emphasized glitz and speed over the gameplay that made its predecessor legendary.


Are you confusing 'glitz and speed' with 'graphical update and a frame rate that isn't as sluggish as a weeks supply of horse crap'?  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Pale on August 09, 2006, 01:14:15 AM
Man.  I completely disagree with ANYONE who thinks the original is better than Melee.

Have you played the original since Melee has been out?  Melee is one of the best games of all time.  Sounds to me like your friends are just FPS trend whores.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 09, 2006, 01:47:04 AM
I also question their choice in N64 levels kept.  They choose to keep Yoshi's Island and Donkey Kong...each which basically had an updated version of their design in the Melee form already.  

Pale:  If somebody was to ask me which is the better game Melee or the original I would completely say Melee.

My preference of the original over Melee is that I was actually able to play the original with my friends...and Melee I haven't had the luck.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 09, 2006, 02:00:17 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I emulated SSB on our hacked Xbox tonight: I had forgotten just how great it was.

It feels a bit simpler, but the same novelty which made the game so great is very much alive and well.

I forgot how much I had missed some of these levels. Definitely going to be snagging SSB for the VC.


...And this was the last post Smash_Brother ever made.

The Joint Anti-Piracy Microsoft-Nintendo Strike Force who sole purpose is to stop the playing of Nintendo products on Hacked Microsoft products will soon take him away.  If you are playing Nes on your Modded XBox or maybe you have an Unlicensed Version of Windows Playing SNES titles.  They'll be there.  Using their advance weaponry and tactics to squish your coperate espionage.  As the motto of the JAPMN Strike Force is: "A non-pirated world is a happy world" and "If you mess with us we will mess you up, Read the Literature Fool!"  Soon they will derive moneys from the Sale of VC and XBLA sales much like the DOT runs off of Gas and Automobile Taxes.  So I pity the fool who messes with the JAPMN Strike Force and Associates and here you thought "Big Brother" was bad.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on August 09, 2006, 02:25:38 AM
All the following quotes are Smash Brother
Quote

Melee is all about reflex and I've never liked that. I still enjoy the game, of course, but I'm immensely glad to hear that Brawl will have its speed adjusted because I always thought Melee would be a better game if it ran at 75% of the current speed.


YOU ARE CRAP AT THE GAME. Why should everyone else have to suffer with a slower game for some kid who can't handle the pace?

It's a god damned fighting videogame. It's not turn based. You can't plan an attack when people are pounding you and throwing shit at you from all directions. Strategy can bite my left nut and stay in Advance Wars.

Quote

IMHO, personal skill should be the ONLY aspect of a fight that matters.


Wait... contradiction! You just said what I said, I wish I read that earlier to save me some typing! Oh well, thanks anyway!

Quote

The tiers make a colossal difference: I'm a sh*tty Fox player and an excellent Bowser player, but I can still lose with Bowser while I never lose with Fox because his speed just makes so much of a difference.

If Brawl could just resolve this, I'd be satisfied with the game.

That isn't for Brawl to resolve, it's for YOU to resolve.

Tiers. Don't make me laugh. The competitive SSBM playing community has to be most niche group of all time, hardly an indicator that some characters can not possibly win a tournament.
Quote

Reasons SSBM was clearly rushed:

1. The texture on Roy's legs doesn't properly connect to his torso.

2. No actual "Random" button in the character select screen.

3. The character select screen in general was shoddy.

4. The CPU AI will not use certain moves, likely because the programmers did not have time to ensure that the AI wouldn't kill itself (JP's sleep, rollout, Yoshi's egg, etc.).

5. The tiers favor speed over all else, period.

1. You are the only person in the entire world who cares.

2. Is this just a flat out lie? I seem to recall choosing random characters quite often.

3. WTF do you expect? What's wrong with it? You choose your characters, simple as that. How is this related to the time of development as well? It's something that could be decided either way in 1 minute. Nobody cares.

4. As is the case with the original and every single AI in every single game ever made.

5. Tiers are only in YOUR HEAD.
Quote

When a Game Over tournament (biggest SSBM tourney in the country) is won by a 'dorf player, or ANY player aside from Fox, Falco, Marth and Shiek, I'll reconsider.

Until then, the tiers clearly dictate that speed >>>>>>>>> all else.

People like you wont attempt it because apparently all the characters have already been labeled in "tiers", which only acts as a brick wall you hardcore SSBM players are fighting against.

ANYONE can win ANY match with ANY character. THIS IS A FACT! It is the ONLY fact. Tiers are entirely subjective. Why aren't you whinging about tiers in SSB? If anything SSBM corrected the mistakes in the rushed SSB, by toning down Pikachu and making Jigglypuff a bit more powerful.
Quote

Of course, maybe this will open the door to downloadable tweaks and updates in brawl.

No thanks, I don't want every person with the game to have a different version of it. This isn't PC gaming where devs can release broken games and "fix" them through broken user feedback like yours.

In the end, you are whinging into a brick wall of FACTS. Like the fact that SSBM outsold SSB on a smaller userbase. That says more to Nintendo than anything anyone here ever could.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: 18 Days on August 09, 2006, 02:28:10 AM
My username is 18 Days and I endorse everything Mario said.

Seriously go play Street Fighter Smash Brother.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Pale on August 09, 2006, 02:36:48 AM
Mario, you are my hero.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Infernal Monkey on August 09, 2006, 02:44:44 AM
Post of the year.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 09, 2006, 03:16:35 AM
Too bad JAPMN got him.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dasmos on August 09, 2006, 03:19:02 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Mario
2. Is this just a flat out lie? I seem to recall choosing random characters quite often.
Actually there is no button, you can only choose random if you put the coin in the vacant area. This aspect alone warrants the game undesirable and totally unplayable. If this isn't fixed for Brawl, I will consider not purchasing the game and possibly even skip Wii all together.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2006, 03:28:45 AM
SSB is perfect. SSBM is fine.

Ooh, and now I get to be all mean and hurtful like a b.net kid! Watch:

"Cry more n00b. Lern 2 play."

Whew! That was fun!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on August 09, 2006, 03:57:44 AM
You realize SSB was so damn slow because of the framerate right? If it was locked-in at a solid 30 FPS, it would have played A-HELL-OF-ALOT faster.


Deal with it...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 09, 2006, 03:58:41 AM
Man, I gotta wonder about people calling out SSBM on balance issues.

SSB was rife with them.  Kirby was insanely overpowered.  In fact, I started up SSBM when I got it and picked him immediately, and was very disappointed to find out that he'd been balanced down to the other characters.

From what I remember, Mario was overpowered as well.

But I'm too busy enjoying SSBM for being a billion times better to really check it out for myself.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Infernal Monkey on August 09, 2006, 04:06:55 AM
Yeah, Mario's coin uppercut was brutal in the original. Fixed that heaps in Melee. It was like trapping someone in a corner and mashing E.Honda's hundred hand slap in Street Fighter.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2006, 04:08:47 AM
This forum has balance issues.

KILLER7 FTW
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2006, 04:09:12 AM
Man, Mario, where were you earlier? ...;_;

Quote

Originally posted by: Strell
SSB was rife with them.  Kirby was insanely overpowered.


I agree with that. Kirby was overpowered in the first game, and me and my friends used to joke about it being HAL favoritism... however, I think they went overboard in trying to balance him out, as he become fairly weak in Melee.

As Mario mentioned, they had much more success with Jigglypuff, who is also a blast to play in Melee with Roll.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Pale on August 09, 2006, 04:18:41 AM
Wait... is everyone ready to start another argument??

The only way to make melee better is to remove the damn c-stick 'feature'...

Talk about breaking the damn game.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2006, 04:23:54 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Pale
The only way to make melee better is to remove the damn c-stick 'feature'...


Now that I will agree with, and I have no idea why it can only be done in Versus (you think it would have been the other way around).
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2006, 04:40:24 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

C-STICK IS MY FRIEND! /cry

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 09, 2006, 04:50:18 AM
I hated the c-stick for years... My roomate (falco lover) just waits until the other 3 people are all together on the edge and literally walks through them using a C-sticked Fsmash.... LAME!

although, he was the reason I started to play w/ advanced tactics (and now I use the Cstick for aerials and wavesmashes) ... so.. i pwn him now and everyone's happy ^_^ teehee
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on August 09, 2006, 05:11:05 AM
"wavesmashes"?

What the hell is that?

And yes, the C-stick is THE CHEEAP

Then again, if you just use the c-stick, you'll never win. (against me that is)
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 05:19:14 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Mario YOU ARE CRAP AT THE GAME. Why should everyone else have to suffer with a slower game for some kid who can't handle the pace?


Incorrect. I'm the best player in my group because I'm the only one who generally can keep up with the speed of the game, especially making proper use of Fox's speed.

The result? No one else wants to play. I'd rather play a SSB slow than not play it at all.

Lucky for me, Sakurai seems to agree.

Quote

It's a god damned fighting videogame. It's not turn based. You can't plan an attack when people are pounding you and throwing shit at you from all directions. Strategy can bite my left nut and stay in Advance Wars.


Nonsense. It's possible to see an opening, use it to throw/maneuver an opponent to a certain location and then smash them, it's just more difficult in SSBM because the duration of those openings is much shorter. Ricocheting people off walls via throws to set them up for smashes is just one example of how strategy plays into this game.

Quote

Wait... contradiction! You just said what I said, I wish I read that earlier to save me some typing! Oh well, thanks anyway!


Yes, because reflex means more than knowledge of your character, your opponent's character, the level and its hazards, etc. When your character's attacks can happen much faster than your opponent's character, why care what that character can do?

Quote

That isn't for Brawl to resolve, it's for YOU to resolve.

Tiers. Don't make me laugh. The competitive SSBM playing community has to be most niche group of all time, hardly an indicator that some characters can not possibly win a tournament.


And once again, the very subject which has never seen its end on SSB messageboards everywhere. I think they do matter, you do not. Will that ever change? Not this lifetime.

Quote

1. You are the only person in the entire world who cares.


I never said I "cared". I was just pointing it out as evidence that the game has polish issues.

Quote

2. Is this just a flat out lie? I seem to recall choosing random characters quite often.


You drop your token in the CORNER of the screen. Not on a square which says "Random". I would think that (like the level select screen) a random square would have been added if the game had been polished.

Quote

ANYONE can win ANY match with ANY character. THIS IS A FACT! It is the ONLY fact. Tiers are entirely subjective.


I'd wager that hundreds of SSBM tournaments are held every year. Were your logic accurate, then the winning character should be as random as the stage select, not an consistent pick from the top 4-5 characters.

Quote

Why aren't you whinging about tiers in SSB? If anything SSBM corrected the mistakes in the rushed SSB, by toning down Pikachu and making Jigglypuff a bit more powerful.


Wait...I thought you didn't believe in tiers, yet you think Pikachu needed to be toned down?

Tiers in SSB weren't based entirely around speed. Don't get me wrong, I would have liked to see Kirby and Ness balanced a bit (not nerfed into ineptitude) but characters were stronger due to more power, not more speed. This places the focus of the game less on reflex, unlike SSBM where the top tiers are held by the fastest characters and this, IMHO, is what kills the desire to play the game for most of my friends.

I'm hoping for online SSBB because, at the very least, it will ensure that I can always find an opponent.

Quote

No thanks, I don't want every person with the game to have a different version of it. This isn't PC gaming where devs can release broken games and "fix" them through broken user feedback like yours.


I agree with this, but this might be what we wind up seeing anyway. Like I said, one of the later revisions made a change to Bowser so there WERE in fact different versions of SSBM out there (but it's only Bowser so it hardly mattered).

If they release the game and the option was there to balance characters after release, I think they'll do it.

Quote

In the end, you are whinging into a brick wall of FACTS. Like the fact that SSBM outsold SSB on a smaller userbase. That says more to Nintendo than anything anyone here ever could.


Again, incorrect. The Japanese comment submission forms for Sakurai say far more than anything said in English, and judging by the fact that Sakurai has already said he intends to moderate the speed and make the game easier, I think I'm not the only one who sees these as changes for the better.

And yes, the C-stick makes it possible for noobs to have a chance to win time games, which really shouldn't be how it is, considering that they'll never get better if all they do is mash the C-stick.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2006, 05:25:20 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Requiem
"wavesmashes"?

What the hell is that?


It's a very advance tactic, where you do a diagonal aerial dodge almost when are just about to touch the ground. It will cause your character to quickly move across the screen if you do it right (called a Wavedash) and if you do a smash during it, it's where the above term comes from.

Things to note about it:

It wasn't intentional at first from the programmers, but they liked it and left it in.

Not all characters can do it, and some aren't able to perform wavedashes very well (sorry Bowser).

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
You drop your token in the CORNER of the screen. Not on a square which says "Random". I would think that (like the level select screen) a random square would have been added if the game had been polished.


Just no pleasing you. You think the character select screen is crap, yet you suggest they add buttons to make it look even more cluttered? No thanks, the current setup is fine.

Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Wait...I thought you didn't believe in tiers, yet you think Pikachu needed to be toned down?


That was in SSB, and he did need to be toned down with the way grabs were in the first game (which were fixed in the second).
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 05:29:52 AM
Wavedashing Example

Luigi is probably the best wavedash character because of his natural tendency to slide.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 05:35:40 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok Just no pleasing you. You think the character select screen is crap, yet you suggest they add buttons to make it look even more cluttered? No thanks, the current setup is fine.


FFS, people, I used this as an EXAMPLE OF WHY THE GAME WAS RUSHED. Nothing else. It doesn't hurt the game, but I know for a FACT that if HAL had more time, they would have added a random button to that screen, added the FE stage, given Ganondorf his sword, etc.

Stop putting words in my mouth.

Quote

That was in SSB, and he did need to be toned down with the way grabs were in the first game (which were fixed in the second).


So, in the first game, Pikachu's fighting abilities were more powerful than those of other characters and as a result it made him a better character, making him more likely to win than some other characters.

Yeah, that's called a TIER.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on August 09, 2006, 05:37:44 AM
Hold up,

I thought you had to not be on the ground to wavedash. Luigi is wavedashing left and right, yet he does it while on the ground.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2006, 05:38:33 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Yeah, that's called a TIER.


All fighting games have tiers, that's not the point. The point is that the one in SSBM in no way hinders play in a serious way, as the characters are all viable outisde of a 1 vs 1 tournament setting if you want them to be.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2006, 05:39:37 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Requiem
Hold up,

I thought you had to not be on the ground to wavedash. Luigi is wavedashing left and right, yet he does it while on the ground.


You have to do it RIGHT when you touch the ground. If you are good enough, you can perform it quickly so that it doesn't even look like you jump (which is what the player you saw was likely doing).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2006, 05:46:42 AM
Death to wavedashing.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 05:47:14 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok All fighting games have tiers, that's not the point. The point is that the one in SSBM in no way hinders play in a serious way, as the characters are all viable outisde of a 1 vs 1 tournament setting if you want them to be.


If I play as Bowser/Ness/Link, I win roughly 75% of the games with my friends. I play as Fox and I win 95%. I didn't get better. In fact, most of what I remember from Fox was how he played in SSB.

So yeah, when I play as one character and barely win, or lose the game, then play as another character and mop the goddamn floor with the other three players, then yes, I am led to believe that there is a definite deviation in character ability.

...Which once again brings us to our previous stalemate.

As for wavedashing, it's done by jumping and using the mid-air dodge to push down into the ground in rapid succession. You know how the midair dodge can make you move in a direction you push? You basically take a tiny leap, then immediately do that into the ground.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 09, 2006, 05:58:56 AM
wavedashing is sexy.
Pro666 wants wavedashing to die

.:
Pro hates sex and sexy people.



[edit: comma splice]
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on August 09, 2006, 06:03:23 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
Quote

Originally posted by: Requiem
Hold up,

I thought you had to not be on the ground to wavedash. Luigi is wavedashing left and right, yet he does it while on the ground.


You have to do it RIGHT when you touch the ground. If you are good enough, you can perform it quickly so that it doesn't even look like you jump (which is what the player you saw was likely doing).


Ok, one more question.

How can you "perform it quickly so that it doesn't even look like you jump" if you have to land to pull of the move? I can see how you could do it if, you press jump, then dodge real quick, but your saying you have to land to do it and not the other way around.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 06:03:42 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict Pro hates sex, and sexy people.


By association, you just called Daisy un-sexy.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 06:04:45 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Requiem Ok, one more question.

How can you "perform it quickly so that it doesn't even look like you jump" if you have to land to pull of the move? I can see how you could do it if, you press jump, then dodge real quick, but your saying you have to land to do it and not the other way around.


Quote

As for wavedashing, it's done by jumping and using the mid-air dodge to push down into the ground in rapid succession. You know how the midair dodge can make you move in a direction you push? You basically take a tiny leap, then immediately do that into the ground.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2006, 06:07:55 AM
Wavedashing is an unintentional, unnatural, and officially undisclosed gameplay phenomenon in SSBM that fuels Smash's unbalance/rushed arguments.

I'll group it with Snaking in Mario Karting.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caliban on August 09, 2006, 06:14:01 AM
That video was too long, so what's this wavedashing supposed to do? I don't need to know if you like it or not, just tell me what is it supposed to do during battle that makes you go on a frantic word war on PGC!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 09, 2006, 06:14:03 AM
it lets you pressure opponents, avoid getting hit, generally evade/move in to punish

edit: for some characters, it's faster than running (Samus, Luigi/Mario/Doc, Ice Climbers)

its basically used for spacing (like a roll) but there is no afterlag... if you roll backwards you have to wait for the animation to end before you can attack again.. but out of a WD you can immediately grab/attack/dodge/shield/jump/shine get
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on August 09, 2006, 06:15:32 AM
So what's so good about sliding? I can see how smashing while sliding would be useful, but otherwise, why wouldn't you just roll?  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 09, 2006, 06:19:28 AM
rolling has loads of lag, and sometimes gets predictable... if your opponents anticipates your roll,, he'll slide/dash towards you and punish your roll...

if your opponent anticipates a Wavedash, he'll still try to punish you, but you have more options (you can attack immediately out of wavedash... with IClimbers and Luigi, you're still sliding while you're smashing...  = pretty nifty)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2006, 06:20:33 AM
You get to move and function without "running."  Basically, you threw the basic game mechanics out the window.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 09, 2006, 06:23:34 AM
good uses: with Mario/Doc, you can shoot a rising fireball/pill  from a fulljump and Wavedash when you land.

It's useful for retreating or advancing.

Fox can wavedash out of his shine, so he can "waveshine" characters all the way across the stage.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on August 09, 2006, 06:26:44 AM
Sounds like a bullsh!t way to win....
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 09, 2006, 06:32:58 AM
yea, waveshining is broken... but it's also pretty hard to do (perfectly).

wavedashing is a great way to speed up a samus/mario/ice climbers
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2006, 06:41:21 AM
TIME FOR A PGC-WIDE SSBM TOURNAMENT
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 09, 2006, 06:46:27 AM
make it a text-based RPG, and I'm in
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 09, 2006, 07:02:08 AM
lol.  We should so do that when SSBB comes out and if it's online.  I will cook you all...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 09, 2006, 07:02:12 AM
I hope I never play any of you whiners online in SSBB.

I'd hate for you to complain about how the loading screens are evidence of the game being rushed.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 07:13:23 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666 Wavedashing is an unintentional, unnatural, and officially undisclosed gameplay phenomenon in SSBM that fuels Smash's unbalance/rushed arguments.


Kinda.

The game was definitely rushed, even Sakurai has said that, but I have mixed feelings on wavedashing because it means that the highest echelons of skill do indeed rise above all others.

Unlike tiers, this truly does only factor into tournament play (unless you have a friend who has mastered it).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2006, 07:17:30 AM
The rich get richer and poorer get poorer.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 07:25:30 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666 The rich get richer and poorer get poorer.


I changed my mind: you're right. I'd hope they'll axe it for SSBB, and that can be done by simply adding a slight recovery delay to air-dodging into the ground.

Thinking about it, the only reason it doesn't bother me is because I've never encountered anyone who could do it, but if SSBB does go online, it would very likely suck to lose repeatedly to players using a maneuver which most people likely don't even have the hand dexterity to perform.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 09, 2006, 07:28:53 AM
oh it's pretty easy to do once it locks into your muscle memory.. .plus if you like to play the same character a lot (i used to only play as mario/samus/peach), then it gets even easier... you just hit x/y and immediately dodge...

edit: but all this talk really just makes me want to play the original some more.. I want to remember what smash was like without all the wavedashing.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Darkheart on August 09, 2006, 07:36:31 AM
Speaking of cheating Mewtwos glitch NEEDS to be fixed I am tired of my brother using the damn LAME glue move on me.

For people who dont know, if you use a red shell and mewtwo in a certain way, his shield will break and you the challenger will stick to his body.   Then Mewtwo can attack you while you are rendered unconcious stuck to his body all the way to 900% then BAM hit you and you're gone.  You cannot move durring the time and will remain glued to his body.  Mewtwo can't get rid of you either unless he does an over B attack.  It is cheap and lame and a LARGE glitch I hate it.

This thread scares me, I liked it when it wasnt so damn argumentive.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 09, 2006, 07:48:36 AM
People say PGC has great visitors.  I cannot comment on rumors or speculation.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 07:50:27 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: darkheart For people who dont know, if you use a red shell and mewtwo in a certain way, his shield will break and you the challenger will stick to his body.   Then Mewtwo can attack you while you are rendered unconcious stuck to his body all the way to 900% then BAM hit you and you're gone.  You cannot move durring the time and will remain glued to his body.  Mewtwo can't get rid of you either unless he does an over B attack.  It is cheap and lame and a LARGE glitch I hate it.


WHOA! I gotta TRY that...

What exactly does he do with the red shell which starts the effect?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Pale on August 09, 2006, 08:55:19 AM
The thing about wavedashing that makes it not bother me is that so few people can do it.  I've only ever been successful in practice mode with no opponent.

Joe Shmoe suck at games can stand in the middle of a four player match and just do circles on the c-stick and get some KOs.

Also, speaking of glitches, you have all seen the black hole, right?  That thing is freaking awesome.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 09:17:17 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Pale Joe Shmoe suck at games can stand in the middle of a four player match and just do circles on the c-stick and get some KOs.


That's my primary objection to the C-stick, especially in the hands of a Marth player.

We have one of those who uses nothing BUT the C-stick and he can still win time games by C-sticking superior opponents while they're engaged in combat with each other (known as "seagulling" or "cherry picking").

I'd have preferred it if a player doing such a thing would at LEAST need to be skilled enough to time the press of the A button with the meeting of the analogue to the edge of the joint.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on August 09, 2006, 09:20:26 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Pale
Also, speaking of glitches, you have all seen the black hole, right?  That thing is freaking awesome.
Black hole, complete with awesome Terminator 2 music.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Zach on August 09, 2006, 10:30:49 AM
Ive been meaning to get some friends and try that glitch, This vid is better quality, but it doesnt have cool terminator music.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on August 09, 2006, 10:58:35 AM
It's also so long that I get bored before anything significant happens.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 09, 2006, 11:11:42 AM
I think the C-Stick is the worst inclusion in Melee by far.  However, I understand why they added it in.  The game grew so complicated that it was hard to master all the techniques so they created a dumbed down cheat with the C-stick.

Although it sucks, after my friends found that out, they wanted to play the game again.  It allowed them to have even ground with me...because I never use that.

The best inclusion for Melee is that Charge Smash Attacks,  I thought those were definately awesome, but with the speed of the game, AND C-Smashes they were made more or less useless.

You know the C-stick Smashes wouldn't have been that bad if they were made to be like 1/2 the power of a regular Smash.  That way they become a means to use a Smash in a tight spot, but it isn't the end all means to Smash hit your opponents.  

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 11:42:42 AM
Half strength (including half the distance) would have been ideal.

It would force noob players to try harder to learn the game instead of simply spinning the C-stick.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 09, 2006, 11:58:20 AM
Man.

You people bitch the game is "too hard" for Joe Schmuck to keep up with.

So Nintendo puts something in there for him to have some slight chance of standing with pros.  And it's a move that you can probably anticipate and block/avoid to begin with, especially if you know someone is just going to do it endlessly.

But you bitch about that also.  

Holy f*ck.  No pleasing you people at all.

I can take out C users without issue.  Period.  The only time it might be a problem would be if it's a truly talented player.  I don't fancy myself that good at the game, but it would take a lot for me to get upset by the C stick (which hardly anyone knows about or uses anyway, and you'd be laughed out a tourney if you used it).

C isn't for you.  It's for people who need it.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 09, 2006, 12:06:16 PM
I've never had a problem with my friends using the C-Stick since I can tell when a charactor is going to use a Smash Attack.  Smash Attacks take longer then normal attacks even with C, so I can see when ones about to be done giving me plenty of time shield or roll behind them where I can do an easy grab.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 09, 2006, 12:17:42 PM
We are talking and discussing.

Geez.  Chill out.  This is a message board topic about Super Smash Bros Brawl.

Of course we are going to discuss all sorts of things in this thread.

1)New characters we would like to see.
2)New moves, levels, abilities.
3)Pacing of the game.  Whether it should speed up or be slowed down.
4)Misc. Desires for the game.
5)Things that we would like to see improved from Melee, or that even Melee did right.

Smash isn't just complaining.  He is bringing legit concerns he personally has about the two original games and we are discussing how to make it better.

Unfortunately, messageboards tend to usefully swing more negative than positive because it is easier to complain about something because we can't actually actively make it better...and commenting a postive post is boring.

I really like Mario in Melee he was the bomb.  Where do you go in discussion from there?

Saying the Melee's speed was too fast, which made certain character unplayed, and other character too good, will actually bring discussion and debate.  Which is what a board is supposed to be about.

But.  To get back to "Positive Talk"

Here is what Melee did GREAT that vastly changed the Smash Brothers Experience for the Better:

1)Adventure Mode. Single Player just become much more enjoyable, and had an actual point instead of just random battles.  Very cool.

2)Event Mode:  This allowed for the best Smash players to challenge themselves in some rather brilliant predetermined battles with odd rules.  It also introduced players to all the robust options for Multiplayer.

3)Tons of hidden character.  The clones may have been annoying, but it atleast upped our # of playable characters, and added some variation to game design.

4)Charging Smash Attacks.  This allowed you to plan chain attacks and succeed in larger Smashes that will send players flying.  It allowed higher damaged characters to still be a threat to less damaged characters.

5)4 different Throws.  Awesome.

6)New characters that felt new and actually added to gameplay techniques.  

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2006, 12:34:28 PM
Another thing they did great was to put in the C-stick.

Yeah, you heard me.

Whut? WHUT?

... *ahem*

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caliban on August 09, 2006, 01:09:35 PM
So, basically speaking, wavedashing is just a glitch that will give the player certain advantages.

In my point of view, to exploit a glitch is not welcome, however since it is a game than if you can bend the rules to your favor all the credit for you, but for every bend there is a counter-bend.

Also, we have to realize that if a developer goes out to elimiante every possible glitch (gameplay, graphics, audio) in a game, then it is possible that those games may never see the light of day.

A blackhole? Oh yeah I've seen that before, pretty wacked.

For SSBB I want: Widescreen, more characters or at least take out some from SSBM, more stages, more, more, more, "more anything? more everything!"
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 01:30:04 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Caliban So, basically speaking, wavedashing is just a glitch that will give the player certain advantages.

In my point of view, to exploit a glitch is not welcome, however since it is a game than if you can bend the rules to your favor all the credit for you, but for every bend there is a counter-bend.


That's why it'll likely get axed.

Quote

For SSBB I want: Widescreen, more characters or at least take out some from SSBM, more stages, more, more, more, "more anything? more everything!"


Brawl will have, by Sakurai's words, close to 40 characters.

But they can only afford to do one additional level. Sorry.

Seriously, since the game will be on a DVD now, they should be able to bring back ALL prior levels, from SSB as well.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 01:40:26 PM
On another note, do we know which level THIS is:



I'm sure those lines on the ground and the yellow glowing rimmed platforms can be matched to something.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Infernal Monkey on August 09, 2006, 01:47:32 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

FFS, people, I used this as an EXAMPLE OF WHY THE GAME WAS RUSHED. Nothing else. It doesn't hurt the game, but I know for a FACT that if HAL had more time, they would have added a random button to that screen, added the FE stage, given Ganondorf his sword, etc.

Stop putting words in my mouth.


I didn't know you worked for HAL. Did you get fired for suggesting they slow Melee down to a snails pace or something? Is this the source of the non-sensical hatred of the game?

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2006, 01:54:20 PM
No, he was fired over artistic differences. He wanted a button... and they didn't.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2006, 02:15:12 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Pale
The thing about wavedashing that makes it not bother me is that so few people can do it.  I've only ever been successful in practice mode with no opponent.


IMO, wavedashing is very easy to do... as long as you aren't trying to make it look like you haven't even jumped. If you are recovering from a jump, then I have no problem with the timing though, but it doesn't hold a great advantage when done like that, unless you are Luigi.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Shorty McNostril on August 09, 2006, 02:42:12 PM
Does anyone use the control stick for jumping? I personally would love it if they removed the jump so i can actually use the up+a attack.  They only way i can manage that attack is jumping once while holding the stick up so when i land i can use that attack. And that means that for me its useless. I can fluke it sometimes but i dont know how.

Anyone know of any ways to use the up+a attack viably?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 03:13:26 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Infernal Monkey I didn't know you worked for HAL. Did you get fired for suggesting they slow Melee down to a snails pace or something? Is this the source of the non-sensical hatred of the game?


No, I walked out when they hired Takashi Nishiyama to handle the speed mechanics and character design.

Seriously, I've spent likely 300 hours playing the game, taken the time to learn all characters and master some of the worst and I enjoy it on a semi-regular basis. For a guy who hates the game, I've spent a sh*tload of time playing it and enjoying it.

That doesn't mean I think there is no room for improvement, however.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UniversalJuan on August 09, 2006, 04:53:55 PM
Just throwing in my random two cents.

I play at tournaments when I get a chance to go. I have some good Smash Bros player friends. I have seen a Pikahcu user win a Smash Event (Lawrence, KS Event like 57 or so, if you're curious I placed like 7th here, DAMN good people were there and I had some very rough matchups). Wavedashing is something I loathed and enver understood until I learned to use it, period. I can now do it almost on command (As a result, my Mario game has become much ebtter and the Ice Climbers are one of my best characters to play as)

The tier list is  a borderline joke. It exists, to an extent. At the event I am referring to I saw a near mastery level Falcon get it handed to him from a Pikachu user (Wow, this Pika user could chian for at least 40% damage, it was crazy). According to the tier list, they are both incredibly high level players (Both above myself, the Falcon user is my rival and I'm almost at his level..just...a...little...more!) so the Falcon should beat hte Pika yes? No. The Pika had a clear advantage halfway through the match (GREAT match to watch btw if yuo're into the competitive scene. You know those tournament videos? I get to see some of them done live, almost got to be in one but that was a different tourney with no VCR round, pity heh)

The speed of Smash Bros Melee is amazing. As a Peach user, Fox users give me the creeps (I've yet to lose to a tournament Fox player) but they can be overcome due to advance tactics (Float cancels, chain throws, etc). It's all relative. S_B, you say you can beat your firends when you radomly bring out Fox? You guys need to keep practicing because something's wrong there. Over 4 years after buying the game adn I SITLL am finding things about it I didn't know (Pikachu's Thundershock can be stuck in the tree on Pokemon Stadium for xample, found that out this year).  The level of polish on Melee astounds me.

My impatience for Brawl from the Wii launch title thread comes from having 646:18 hours of playtime logged (On one of my names I pick for my stat tracking the counter just plain doesn't run anymore heh). I have full confidence that we could give them a freaking week and they'd churn out a game better than Melee which would blow my mind. Let's have a little faith here.

The balancing in Melee is great. My brother is a Shiek user and I used to run Mewtwo as my main way back when. Constant ass kicking from him to me, I switch to Marth and discovered counter (LOL what a silly little beginner I was, but I'm drifting here) and evened the odds. Time progressed and my skill went higher and higher and his didn't increase much. Fast forward to like 2004 and I can beat him with Mewtwo all over the floor constantly. By all technicality my odds of beating him shouldn't be so high using Mewtwo, but it's that skill that tips the scale in my favor. I'm just plain better at the game and can beat him with almost any character I please. That's the ebauty and balance of Melee. If you fail to see this then you're nuts.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 09, 2006, 05:47:13 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Shorty McNostril Does anyone use the control stick for jumping? I personally would love it if they removed the jump so i can actually use the up+a attack.  They only way i can manage that attack is jumping once while holding the stick up so when i land i can use that attack. And that means that for me its useless. I can fluke it sometimes but i dont know how.

Anyone know of any ways to use the up+a attack viably?


I know how you feel. I would like this removed as well.

But people, I'm serious about the level question.



Does anyone have even the FAINTEST clue about where that level might be from? I'm trying to piece together the clues because I believe we were given enough to deduce the owner of the level, and I'm not sure if that character is known or unknown.

The clues I've seen are:

1. The light blue line pattern on the ground with a purple pulse running through it.

2. The hovering platforms with the glowing yellow line around them.

3. The glowing blue crystal with a semicircle railing around it stuck to the bottom of the stage which appears to be holding the level aloft.

4. The rising sun emblem next to Snake before he pops out of the box.

5. Some broken pillars in the background (though that doesn't narrow it down).

The sun emblem and the pulsing line pattern on the stage seem the most distinct. I don't suspect the level is finished, but I think these clues are definitely there for a reason.

Anyone have any insight into this?  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on August 09, 2006, 06:29:16 PM
Quote

Smash Bros.' Smash bros. Level


Either it's a new version of Hyrule Castle, a new Twilight Princess Stage (the blue lines are Goron tech.!) or i's most probably an unfinished stage. After all, the game is slated for 2007, they must've only really gotten underway in development recently, and all that stuff they showed at E3 must've been tightly scripted and created specifically for PR purposes to whip everyone up into an E3 frenzy.

Quote

Universual Juan's post


I shall worship you as my smash bros. god. Great post. Seriously.

Oh, and you bring news of Pikachu holding its own in SB tourneys.

I worship you some more!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 09, 2006, 06:52:03 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Kairon
Quote

Universual Juan's post


I shall worship you as my smash bros. god. Great post. Seriously.


I second that, and thanks for sharing about your tournament experiences Juan. Man, 646 though? And here I thought the 182 hours that me and my friends logged on mine was daunting...

Also, on a side note to Shorty McNostril, I pretty much only use the control stick for jumping. It feels natural, and keeps my thumb free for attacking, so I would hate to see jump isolated to only a button.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: 31 Flavas on August 09, 2006, 08:55:08 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

5. Some broken pillars in the background (though that doesn't narrow it down).

The sun emblem and the pulsing line pattern on the stage seem the most distinct. I don't suspect the level is finished, but I think these clues are definitely there for a reason.

Anyone have any insight into this?
You know what I just thought of? Well there is oddly enough a busted up parthenon "looking" structure in the backround and in Kid Icarus the first level had busted up pillars. And Pit from Kid Icarus is in the game...

So maybe it's Pit's level?  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MattVDB on August 10, 2006, 01:22:59 AM
Am I crazy to see a wrench in that picture on the ground?  It couldn't possibly be an Advance Wars level, could it be?  I honestly haven't played the game enough to know, but that could be sweet.  Thoughts?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 10, 2006, 02:42:27 AM
I'm almost positive that's Angel Land (from Kid Icarus).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 10, 2006, 03:46:55 AM
No.  An Advance Wars level be more Cartoony.  Think Chibiish.  Though that could have all sorts of possibilities...hmm...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caliban on August 10, 2006, 04:02:47 AM
What if that level was just for the demo?! I think the levels shown in the trailer were just for show, they were lacking in detail compared to the levels we've played in SSBM. The main focus was on new characters, I think. However if it really is a level for the final game I would say it would be a Legend Of Zelda Twilight Princess level, the ruins in the back, the glowing marks were used in Wind Waker and I bet they will surely be used in Twilight Princess, however as I have written before that the shown levels look very incomplete.

Edit: Today, after a long hiatus, I played some SSBM again, boy am I rusty, and I was never that good I think, well I never got the chance to play much multiplayer anyway so I could never judge my skills.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 10, 2006, 04:54:32 AM
Wrong.

We didn't get to see enough of the Castle-under-siege level, but it was pretty big.

We got to see plenty of Meta Knight's ship, and it puts the Great Fox to shame.

Then there's the throne room stage which we've seen in screenshots and only appears for a second in the trailer, and that's pretty dense with architecture.

Wannabe-Angel-Land, which is more like Boring Battlefield, is the only demo stage we've seen that isn't packed with architecture.  But it still looks more interesting than Battlefield.  It even has an anti-gravity orb underneath the island, like the Final Destination stage.

Even so, they'll all get even better over time.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 10, 2006, 04:54:34 AM
THANK YOU!!!  For mentioned Advanced Wars.

We don't yet have a character from that game yet.

Hmmm...do we use a special unit...or would you use a commanding general for a Smash Brothers character?

Either way I think it would cool.

Then the Advanced War level could have everyone battling on a literal battle field with bombs and explosions everywhere.

Who is with me???

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 10, 2006, 05:06:38 AM
On of the little Soldier people from Battalion Wars.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 10, 2006, 05:50:06 AM
I was thinking Sami from Orange Star as a playable character.

First, she has a nice gun, so she could be a ranged combatant that also swung her gun in clost combat.

Second, She is a Girl.  We need more female combatants.

Third, I think she could add some interesting mechanics to the game.  An Air Raid Bomb attack could be like Pikachu's Lightning Bolt...but come in at a Diagonal line.

She could possible even switch weapons to represent different type of fighting in game.  I dunno.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 10, 2006, 07:28:49 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
First, she has a nice gun, so she could be a ranged combatant that also swung her gun in clost combat.


That's actually a strike against her, as Sakurai has gone on record already saying he doesn't want real world guns in the game, which came up with the inclusion of Snake and his moveset.

I will be dissapointed if no one from Advance Wars makes it, as there is a lot of potentional there. My number one choice would be Sturm, as I have said before I think:



There are a lot of things that could be done with his meteors, although him not being in the DS version is a huge strike against that happening.

Hawke would also be another nice addition, and more likely. You bring up a good point about the game needing more female combatants, though, and Advance Wars has more than a few to choose from, and Sami would be the most likely of the women COs... but I wouldn't mind a more obscure choice like Sonja or Lash as a secret character.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 10, 2006, 08:07:40 AM
Yeah I can see her gun being a strike against her.  Then perhaps another female from the series (though unlikely.)

I am just trying to get the number of female characters better represented.

We could have:

Jill (Drill Dozer)
Sami (Advanced Wars)
Princess Peach
Princess Zelda
Samus Aran
Birdo (Does she count?)
Dixie Kong
Daisy (Princess Peach needs a rival...I like the fierce personality she has in Strikers)
Misty  (From Pokemon...I think this is actually very likely.  Her attacks can include calling out special Pokemon.)

Other Fire Emblem characters

3rd party possiblities:
White Mage
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 10, 2006, 08:16:10 AM
Yes... Birdo is official a girl but call her Birdie (I just got to the part where Birdo shows up in Mario and Luigi: SuperStar Saga)
Actually I doubt we get Misty.  We more likely get May because May is based off of the playable character if memory server.
Quote

Daisy (Princess Peach needs a rival...I like the fierce personality she has in Strikers)

Really. I may actually play Strikers now.

Though it be really easy to get Mario centric.  Wario, Mario, Princess Peach, Luigi, DK, Bowser, Yoshi all have some root in Mario Mytho.  Though I would like to see an event fight where you fight all of the Koopa Kids (Got to that part in Mario and Luigi too.  Excellent game even if I can't do advance attacks.)  Long Live Koopa Kids, Death to Bowser Jr.

With 40 Characters just with those I listed you have a 17.5% chance of randomly picking someone with some tie to the Mario Universe.  Not to mention Doctor Mario which brings it up to a 20% chance.  I'll just say the list is of the ones you don't have to unlock .
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 10, 2006, 08:38:18 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Birdo (Does she count?)


Ehh... no thanks

Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Dixie Kong


Oh, now there is an idea I like. I have always liked Dixie, and her hair spin would make a nice recovery move... however, she hasn't been used much recently, and the hair spin move itself would be pretty much identical to DK's now. If any of the Kongs (I actually thing King K Rool would be more likely... but that just might be personal preference speaking) are going to appear, I sadly think it would be Diddy even though Dixie sounds like a much more appealing inclusion.

Hell, maybe they could have a Diddy-Dixie combo, like they were in DKC2 and kind of going off the Ice Climbers concept.

Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
Misty


I highly doubt they will go with any of the human characters from the Pokémon series, and if it's going to be anyone it will be Ash (but, honestly, does anyone really want to see something like that?).

As for more female characters, there is always Mia from Golden Sun (...does that count though, since it was developed by Camelot?). Or better yet, Mona from the Wario Ware series.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 10, 2006, 08:44:31 AM
Since Daisy is the best character of all the competitive Mario spinoff games, she could be a sports-based bundle of megaton like Casey Jones from Ninja Turtles.

Totally seksee.  The kitten is quite the tiger.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on August 10, 2006, 08:45:39 AM
Sturm is dead; get over it.

And Fox/Falco have guns.  Why can't Sami?

I'd like to see Andy.  He could throw his wrenches at people.  Better yet, I'd like to see those Moles from the Airship/Tank/Boat levels in SMB3.  They throw wrenches, too, but they're cooler.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 10, 2006, 09:11:03 AM
The point of my original post was to just run through the options we could see of female characters.

I agree most are unlikely...but with supposedly 40 characters (I never saw that quote...but supposedly it exists) I think we will see plenty of female characters.

Jill will be are heavy female character.

Daisy I would want to be medium weight class, to differentiate herself from Peach...and I LOVE the sports theme idea...but Princess Peach kinda already has that going for her.

Diddy and Dixie Kong Together:  I like this idea.  There is something simple about it...and very uniqe.  I would design them average speed, light weight combatants, with relatively weak Smashes.  However, I would give them seperate damage counters, and you can switch characters on the fly.  

I still love the idea of Sami.  She is less obvious and that is the reason I love her for the game.  

As for Misty:  I agree probably no human Pokemon character...but if their was Misty would work better than Ash, because Pikachu is already in the game...and Misty has a more stable Pokemon set than Ash does.  

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 10, 2006, 09:21:56 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
Sturm is dead; get over it.


That's exactly why I said it was highly unlikely, and his chances of appearing are nill due to not being in the DS version... but that doesn't stop him from being my most wanted addition to the lineup, no matter how remote the chances are.

Quote

Originally posted by: vudu
And Fox/Falco have guns.  Why can't Sami?


Again, "REAL WORLD GUNS." Last time I checked, you couldn't buy a laser gun or a super scope that fired off energy blasts at the local "sports store".

From the Smash Bros page:

"After much consideration, we decided to have Snake refrain from using real-world guns—instead, he'll use lots of explosives."

Bullet based guns: out, explosives: okay. I'd suggest a rocket launcher for one of the Advance Wars characters due to that, but I have a feeling Snake is going to have one aleady.

EDIT:
Also, does anyone else think this is likely Snake's level in the background?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on August 10, 2006, 09:27:36 AM
Quote

"After much consideration, we decided to have Snake refrain from using real-world guns—instead, he'll use lots of explosives."
LOL.  So we can't have characters with guns, but grenades and other explosives are okay?  Let's just give Snake a Nikita and call it a day.
Quote

Daisy I would want to be medium weight class, to differentiate herself from Peach
Are you calling Daisy fat?  OH NO YOU DIDN'T!!  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 10, 2006, 10:46:11 AM
I don't think Daisy should float... also, if she were faster-falling, it'd be harder to vertically KO her.. so she's like peach lite
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 10, 2006, 11:22:13 AM
Fat No.

But if I was going to vote which Princess would hit harder and fight dirty it would be Daisy...and so a medium weight class in strength and smash ability would definately work...at least heavier than Peach.

And I like the no float idea.  Personally, I wouldn't put her in a dress at all.  

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 10, 2006, 11:37:05 AM
Daisy Short SHORTS

Costumes:  Casual sporty shorts, Soccer outfit, traditional golden dress, jean miniskirt, and jean short SHORTS Cowgirl Outfit.

For the win.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 10, 2006, 11:49:19 AM
But what attacks would Daisy have?

In terms of sports, a golf club and a tennis racket are already in Peach's arsenal, while Ness has the baseball bat... leaving Daisy with just stuff related to Soccer and Basketball, unless Mario Kart can be worked in somehow.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on August 10, 2006, 11:50:38 AM
Quote

But what attacks would Daisy have?
Who cares?  Cowgirl Outfit.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 10, 2006, 12:16:25 PM
Well for one should could use sports items in special moves, and not just Smash Attacks...to seperate from Peach.

It would be cool to see her Toss a Tennis ball in the air, and then you hold special to charge the attack and point a direction the fire it any direction.  

A slide tackle for soccer could be great...and also perhaps could be used as an item steal techique.  Slide tackle, hit them: and if they have any items you either knock it out of their possession or outright steal it from them.

A possible Ground projectile could be a Soccer ball.

Finally I don't care if Ness gets a baseball bat...something about Daisy screams assault by Baseball Bat to me.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ShyGuy on August 10, 2006, 12:54:50 PM
Something tells me Pro666's ultimate game would be called "Let's play Dress-up With Daisy!"
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 10, 2006, 01:11:22 PM
So long as Daisy has that sassy Brooklyn accent, it's all good.

As for Advance Wars, I'd like to see Max because we need more heavyweights, but I do agree that more female characters is ideal.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 10, 2006, 01:15:03 PM
Daisy in an untucked button shirt with jeans or short shorts.

I wanted to say something else but it escaped me...

Wait I know what it is.  Fox Kids did the same to the Beast Wars series.  If you ever watch Beast Machines you'll notice there is only lasers and Projectile weapons (think slow missiles).  Fox said they couldn't have bulleted weapons like Beast Wars did.  It really hurt the series.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on August 10, 2006, 01:50:08 PM
Quote

Does anyone use the control stick for jumping? I personally would love it if they removed the jump so i can actually use the up+a attack. They only way i can manage that attack is jumping once while holding the stick up so when i land i can use that attack. And that means that for me its useless. I can fluke it sometimes but i dont know how.


yeah, dont push so hard on the control-stick. its anolauge remember? i stopped using up on the control stick a long time ago because using either x or y seemed more intuitive in smash. it did take awhile however to get used to lightly tapping the stick up to do those moves, since its a fast paced game and you're used to tapping it towards the edge as fast as you can. it took time but now i never miss pulling off those up+a moves.

i remmeber for the longest times i'd see my friend do certain moves with a character i had never seen, and then realize it was up+a on the ground and wondered how they pulled it off without jumping.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on August 10, 2006, 02:07:24 PM
The GBC Bionic Comando had a playable female character.  I d'know why they'd pick her over the male, though, since the original BC had a male character.  Either one would make a cool SSB character, though.  Since the hook was so integral in the BC games, they could make it more prominent than Link's hookshot or Samus' grappling beam.  Forward-B could shoot the hook forward to knock people over, for example.  B could be his regular gun, and down-B could be a spray from the 3-way weapon.  Maybe.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: stevey on August 10, 2006, 02:12:56 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
EDIT:
Also, does anyone else think this is likely Snake's level in the background?



Nope because Hideo Kojima is making Snake’s SSBB stage
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 10, 2006, 02:53:00 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smoke39
The GBC Bionic Comando had a playable female character.  I d'know why they'd pick her over the male, though, since the original BC had a male character.  Either one would make a cool SSB character, though.  Since the hook was so integral in the BC games, they could make it more prominent than Link's hookshot or Samus' grappling beam.  Forward-B could shoot the hook forward to knock people over, for example.  B could be his regular gun, and down-B could be a spray from the 3-way weapon.  Maybe.


Bionic Commando is a Capcom title, though, and I doubt that one of the total 2-3 third party characters slots (of which one is Snake) is going to filled with anyone who isn't a major franchise player.

Quote

Originally posted by: stevey
Nope because Hideo Kojima is making Snake’s SSBB stage


Oh, must have missed that... then who's stage could that be?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 10, 2006, 06:09:04 PM
jjeeezus I just got back from a smashfest where I played probably the best players in the state (GA).... L-cancelling, Wavedashing, SHFFLing, [insert random advanced tactic]-ing; these guys did it all...

I'm familiar with all of these techniques and felt fairly comfortable at first, but these guys analyzed my game in no time and I was completely screwed... I took maybe 1 stock off each, sometimes less.

I never want to play again...

plz bring back old style.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UniversalJuan on August 10, 2006, 06:37:35 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Stimutacs Addict
jjeeezus I just got back from a smashfest where I played probably the best players in the state (GA).... L-cancelling, Wavedashing, SHFFLing, [insert random advanced tactic]-ing; these guys did it all...

I'm familiar with all of these techniques and felt fairly comfortable at first, but these guys analyzed my game in no time and I was completely screwed... I took maybe 1 stock off each, sometimes less.

I never want to play again...

plz bring back old style.


Ah, welcome to how I play constantly! I would have killed to be there! The things that would have happened to my skill level if I ran into someone better than myself! *shivers*  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: 18 Days on August 10, 2006, 06:45:06 PM
I play smash brothers with items on. It's more fun this way.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 10, 2006, 07:08:56 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: 18 Days
I play smash brothers with items on. It's more fun this way.


Quoted for the damn truth.

How people play any other way is beyond me.  That is not how the game was designed.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on August 10, 2006, 07:50:35 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
Bionic Commando is a Capcom title, though, and I doubt that one of the total 2-3 third party characters slots (of which one is Snake) is going to filled with anyone who isn't a major franchise player.


Yeah probably.  I was mostly just musing.  Wasn't the GBC game developed by NST?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on August 11, 2006, 01:44:20 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Strell
Quote

Originally posted by: 18 Days
I play smash brothers with items on. It's more fun this way.


Quoted for the damn truth.

How people play any other way is beyond me.  That is not how the game was designed.


I was like that back in the day, but now...I find myself playing the game more as a fighter than an insane party game. And it's wierd...all you have to do to switch between them is turn the items either on or off.

Another reason why Melee is the bomb-digadee
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 11, 2006, 03:00:45 AM
Wow.  I can't believe so many people have trouble with up+A attacks.  It's really not that hard once you practice a little.  No harder than doing the side or down ones without doing a smash attack instead, anyway.  Plus I always assumed the X or Y jump was different from the stick jump like it was in the original.  You could jump slightly higher using the stick, but slightly further using the C buttons.  I guess I always took that for granted, so I've never actually tested it in Melee.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Stimutacs Addict on August 11, 2006, 03:13:07 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: UniversalJuan I would have killed to be there! The things that would have happened to my skill level if I ran into someone better than myself! *shivers*


Oh, I can already notice how I've sped up my game.. I just wish that I could play them on a daily basis... I'd get rocked for 3 wks- 2 mnths, but after i fully adjusted to their style, I might stand a chance

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 11, 2006, 06:03:18 AM
I turn items off for duels but leave them on for regular play.

As for the up+A attacks, it would be more convenient to shut jump off so we wouldn't have to worry about hitting it if we didn't want to.

Much like rumble, we could set this to a player specific feature which sticks to the name you assign yourself in game.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 11, 2006, 06:22:17 AM
I agree with the shutting off jump to give better percision control.  

Basically, it would also allow easier diagonial attacks, or even allow those attacks to exist.  

I love all the items in the game...but certain items I wish I could turn off  (I am lazy to go through and actually turn them off.)

Here is a great idea for next game.  

Allow themed Item sets.  

This would allow you to quickly set type of weapons you want from a pre-set which would be quicker than editting the list yourself...and then you can also save your own personal pre-set weapons.

Ideas could be:

Melee Weapons,
Mariosintric
Zeldasintric, ect...
All Food (Health),
Lasers & Guns
Bombs & Traps

and so on.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 11, 2006, 11:57:51 AM
FALCOOOOON PAUUNCH
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 11, 2006, 01:02:10 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
FALCOOOOON PAUUNCH


whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa-AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUUUUUUUUUUUUGHHHHHHHHHHHH
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 11, 2006, 01:16:50 PM
jiggly!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caterkiller on August 11, 2006, 06:46:32 PM
Hopidy HOP!

Yes, have an option to turn off the jump with the control stick, that would allow for much easier up attacks.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: zakkiel on August 14, 2006, 04:09:18 AM
Quote

I was like that back in the day, but now...I find myself playing the game more as a fighter than an insane party game. And it's wierd...all you have to do to switch between them is turn the items either on or off.
Or rather, change the number of players. I find duels with items on far deeper, more strategic, and more satisfying. Some of the best moments in 2-player fighting come in the few secons when you're both trying to get an item but can't go directly for it without the other player smacking you aside and taking it. Great maneuvering and outguessing.

I join the ranks of those who can't believ so many people have trouble with up-A attacks. I don't particularly value the up-as-jump option, but really, this isn't that hard.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 14, 2006, 05:29:29 AM
Knocking people out with a well-placed pokeball throw from across the stage instead of actually fighting is tops.

HILARITY
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 14, 2006, 07:05:07 AM
Right, 'cause everyone knows it doesn't take any skill at all to pull off a well-placed throw and the game doesn't even provide a single solitary way to counter such a turn of events.

Anyone who lacks the spatial awareness to know that his opponent has picked up a pokeball and/or can't take appropriate action needs to LERN2PLAY.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 14, 2006, 07:43:21 AM
Hey, don't take away fun from not-as-skilled gamers.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 14, 2006, 08:10:45 AM
I'm not going to even pretend that I have the skill to be locked in combat with an excellent player at one end of a stage, completely focused on what he'll do next and how I should be trying to counter it, AND be able to pay attention to what another player is doing across the stage at the same time.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 14, 2006, 08:13:07 AM
No.  But that is part of the randomness of Smash Brothers Melee.  There is that X factor that you can not predict.  You can not prepare for.  It makes it fun.

Just like in a FPSer you can be taken out by an interloper...you can hunted and picked away by skilled or not so skilled Smashers as well.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 14, 2006, 08:19:34 AM
I don't want to take anything away.  SSBM is one of the few games with enough options for people of all skill levels.  I took your comment to mean that playing with items was a sign of not-as-skilled-ness, which I disagree with.  I'm not saying the opposite, either.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 14, 2006, 08:24:58 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
No.  But that is part of the randomness of Smash Brothers Melee.  There is that X factor that you can not predict.  You can not prepare for.  It makes it fun.

Just like in a FPSer you can be taken out by an interloper...you can hunted and picked away by skilled or not so skilled Smashers as well.


Naturally.

In those situations, I've often been the one picking up a bomb and hurling it into the other two players.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 14, 2006, 08:30:36 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I'm not going to even pretend that I have the skill to be locked in combat with an excellent player at one end of a stage, completely focused on what he'll do next and how I should be trying to counter it, AND be able to pay attention to what another player is doing across the stage at the same time.

I don't know about that.  Unfortunately, I only have one friend of comparable skill to myself.  I've never had a problem with that, though, and if the guy you're locked in combat with isn't similarly splitting his attention, he's in just as much trouble.  Still, the topic had shifted to one-on-one fights, so you wouldn't have to worry about it.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 14, 2006, 10:15:24 AM
Some may consider this blasphemy, but I like the idea of patches being applied to SSBB post-release.

If you think about it, I'd be a hypocrite not to: I'm the one who's been so insanely adamant about SSBM having balance issues and I don't believe that Sakurai will have enough time to test FORTY characters to the extent that they can ensure a reasonable balance all around.

Even other people in this thread have said "They needed to tone down ________." so I know I'm not entirely alone.

I'd much rather have them attempt to balance characters post release via patches than have fast characters or strong characters always be the most effective.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 14, 2006, 10:19:48 AM
*shrug* I'm against the whole "Patch" idea for consoles.  Unless it crashes the system or compromises security I don't want a patch for it on a console.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 14, 2006, 10:33:45 AM
I hate to say it, but I think it will happen anyway.

Like I had said, HAL released a revision of SSBM which altered Bowser's fire breath so I'm inclined to believe that the idea of patches would very likely be seen as plausible for them.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on August 14, 2006, 10:41:31 AM
I guess you're right SB.

/scared

Please don't hit us too hard with the nerf-bat Nintendo!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 14, 2006, 10:50:37 AM
To be fair, it's possible that they'll still leave powerful characters alone and simply elevate or nerf lower tiers.

The change to Bowser was actually a nerf and Bowser is largely seen as the worst character in the game so what they MIGHT change could be anyone's guess...

Who knows? Maybe we would get new levels or items from time to time.

Also, I should have said this sooner: how cool would a level editor for SSBB be?

Obviously, the levels would be rudimentary in appearance, but I've always wanted "The Box", a level with a single small opening in the top but the rest is completely enclosed. You'd basically have to run your foes up on damage to the point where they eventually ricochet out the hole in the top.

And my dream come true would be a level editor for SSBB with the ability to submit the levels online so other Wii owners can download them...

Shame it ain't bloody likely.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 14, 2006, 01:39:54 PM
Something else...

I've been noticing an irritating trend of Petey Piranha appearing in Mario games as a playable character. I'd probably have a fit if he were to show up in SSBB as a playable character.

An obstacle in a level, sure, but I'd hate to see a character space wasted on him.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nephilim on August 14, 2006, 04:32:43 PM
Nerf characters are some times on purpose, such as dan from street fighter and pichu from melee

if anything, they will just make bowser stranger
his slowness didnt really impact of his damage, as ganon was faster and did about the same
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on August 14, 2006, 04:35:24 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: zakkiel
Quote

I was like that back in the day, but now...I find myself playing the game more as a fighter than an insane party game. And it's wierd...all you have to do to switch between them is turn the items either on or off.
Or rather, change the number of players. I find duels with items on far deeper, more strategic, and more satisfying. Some of the best moments in 2-player fighting come in the few secons when you're both trying to get an item but can't go directly for it without the other player smacking you aside and taking it. Great maneuvering and outguessing.

I join the ranks of those who can't believ so many people have trouble with up-A attacks. I don't particularly value the up-as-jump option, but really, this isn't that hard.
Hey, welcome back.. I was wondering where you had gone.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 14, 2006, 04:39:03 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Something else...

I've been noticing an irritating trend of Petey Piranha appearing in Mario games as a playable character. I'd probably have a fit if he were to show up in SSBB as a playable character.

An obstacle in a level, sure, but I'd hate to see a character space wasted on him.


Strangely, I saw this same thing at another board (CAG).

I'm surprised so many people pay attention to him.  He is a terrible character, though.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 15, 2006, 05:21:25 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Strell Strangely, I saw this same thing at another board (CAG).

I'm surprised so many people pay attention to him.  He is a terrible character, though.


A friend was playing Mario Golf last night, hence why I mention him.

It's alright that he appears in Mario games (Kart, Golf, etc.) but I hope that same like which SOMEONE at Nintendo seems to have for him doesn't carry over to Brawl.

There are so many worth characters from past and present which deserve a spot and if one went to him instead, I think many would be pissed.

Also, I think he's disturbing for the same reason Birdo is disturbing: something about a giant plant wearing boxer shorts is fundamentally wrong.

F*ck...I just felt the first real twinge of excitement about Brawl and the secret characters. I REALLY didn't want to build any anticipation this time around...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on August 15, 2006, 07:25:20 AM
I like Petey, but I agree that he's been getting over-used by Nintendo.  I think it's simply a case of Nintendo reusing him so they don't have to make new character models.  I really doubt they'd put him in Super Smash Bros. Brawl.  Actually, I think that the inclusion of Wario rounds out the Mario cast nicely, I don't feel a strong need to see anyone else.  Waluigi and Daisy would be okay, but I don't think the game would be lacking without them.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on August 15, 2006, 07:27:02 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Something else...

I've been noticing an irritating trend of Petey Piranha appearing in Mario games as a playable character. I'd probably have a fit if he were to show up in SSBB as a playable character.

An obstacle in a level, sure, but I'd hate to see a character space wasted on him.


*poke*

[whisper]Edit button.[/whisper]
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 15, 2006, 07:47:02 AM
Petey isn't that bad.  I think its quite interesting to actually see another Mario villian get the spotlight for a change.  It seems like Nintendo is finally looking at secondary characters in the game and are asking if they can be used elsewhere.

Petey may not seem like the best of characters, but IF he were in Brawl it would mean we would probably have another heavy weight class fighter in the game.  Being a plant, they could develop moves like Ivy or Omega Red from (Soul Caliber and X-men: Children of the Atom.)  That could actually lead to some interesting new powers and abilties for the game.  

I don't count out any character as a bad character, until I see how they are creating the character personally.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 15, 2006, 08:29:40 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: couchmonkey Actually, I think that the inclusion of Wario rounds out the Mario cast nicely, I don't feel a strong need to see anyone else.


I would have been sorely disappointed if we didn't see Wario in the game this time around. He's been around since the NES, had plenty of his own games and recently scored it huge with Wario Ware. He should have been in Melee, IMHO, but I'm glad he's represented in Brawl and in his biker outfit (but it would be nice to have his original clothes as an alternate costume).

On the subject of side characters, Sakurai mentioned something about the Ice Climbers being gone but that we can expect to see another pair or two, possibly, which makes me wonder if Kat and Ana from WW might not be one of said pairs.

Of course, my real hope will always be that SSBB covers as many franchises as possible as that's the point of a SSB game: bringing as many universes together under one roof.

SSB had 12 characters and covered 9 franchises (10 if you count Yoshi as his own). Mario universe, Kirby, Metroid, LoZ, Pokemon, StarFox, Earthbound, F-Zero and Donkey Kong Country.

SSBM had 25 characters but only covered 12 franchises. Mario universe, Kirby, Metroid, LoZ, Pokemon, StarFox, Earthbound, F-Zero, Donkey Kong Country, Fire Emblem, G&W and Ice Climbers (13 if you count Dr. Mario, which I don't).

The ratio of characters to franchises covered was abysmal but we already know that Brawl seems to be turning that trend around with the addition of Pit, Wario and Snake.

With a goal of around 40 characters, I'm hoping they can cover as many franchises, new and old, as possible.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caterkiller on August 15, 2006, 08:56:17 AM
I love Petey Piranha! as a character that is... I thought he was way to big for Mario Kart and Teenis. But I have always loved Piranha plants in general. And if it weren't for that diaper, he would be perfect to me.  I could imagine him throwing up on people slowing them down a bit. Using Tornadoes as his projectile maybe? Charge them up like PK Flash or Mewtwo's Shadow ball? I would love to see him in the game, and wouldn't be surprised if he actualy was, since he has appeared in almost every Mario spin off since Sunshine.  And for me that would be enough from the Mario Universe.

Now I wll be dissapointed if the Ice Climbers are gone but im expecting it. If there is going to be a replacement team I would think Diddy and Dixie kong would be awesome together. We would finaly get more DK characters(outside of Mario) and they wouldn't take up individual spots. All that tag teaming stuff from DKC2 would fit so well with the ice climbers duo gameplay.

And why doesn't Donkey Kong barrel roll yet? His running A should do just that.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 15, 2006, 09:53:04 AM
I think Petey Piranha is only used in Mario spinoffs because they're running out of Mario series characters even as each new sequel demands a larger roster.  I highly doubt he'll show up as a playable character in Brawl, but he might be fun as a stage feature.  There could be an Isle Delfino stage with Petey flying around, occasionally doing something to affect the fight, like spitting fireballs or spreading slippery goop, but I don't want him to be playable.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 15, 2006, 10:15:46 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

On the subject of side characters, Sakurai mentioned something about the Ice Climbers being gone .


Link please.

Because the only time anything regarding the Ice Climbers has ever been mentioned was the bs rumor started at Gamefaqs.

It's been repeated at least 3-4 times here, and everytime I see it, I have to chime in that nothing has been confirmed regarding them.

I find it hard to believe that they'd drop them, especially given that Miyamoto loves them so much.

Plus they are hella fun to play with.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 15, 2006, 10:51:46 AM
They're definitely dropping some characters, but I can't find any immediate confirmation that these characters will be the Climbers, G&W and Young Link (to be replaced with WW Link).

Sakurai supposedly said it in an interview, but I can't find the immediate interview.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 15, 2006, 10:51:53 AM
Here is my thoughts on likely Mario Universe characters or changes to characters in Brawl:

Luigi as ghost fighter Luigi is likely.  
Petey Pirahana is very likely, and would be quite cool.
Baby Mario and Luigi would be a great double team character like the Ice Climbers
and finally,
I could see that crazy Professor becoming from Luigi's Mansion becoming a character too.  (though I would suspect this is only likely if Luigi ISN'T ghost fighter Luigi.

I do agree that we need to represent several franchises, but we also have to have good franchises to represent.  

Animal Crossing is kinda crazy and silly to represent.
Pikmin should be included, and I would be shocked if it wasn't.
Advanced Wars...we have tons of potential here, and should be represented.
Pit is already confirmed so we should be happy.

Most other Major character focused Nintendo games already has characters in Brawl or Melee representing them in some fashion.


Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 15, 2006, 11:00:38 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
They're definitely dropping some characters, but I can't find any immediate confirmation that these characters will be the Climbers, G&W and Young Link (to be replaced with WW Link).

Sakurai supposedly said it in an interview, but I can't find the immediate interview.


I know that.  But "not all of them will return" doesn't really say....anything at all at this point.  

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 15, 2006, 11:03:12 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang Animal Crossing is kinda crazy and silly to represent.


I just don't understand how people can believe that a Nintendo game can sell 4.89 million copies worldwide and yet not have a character to represent it in SSBB, possibly twice.

Do people forget the fact that Resetti and KK were trophies in Melee?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 15, 2006, 11:21:28 AM
Smash:  Trophies, levels, Items from Animal Crossing...all perfectly fine.

No characters.  Animal Crossing wasn't about fighting in any way shape or form, and Brawl would not fit or honor the spirit of the original series.

That is also another element people forget about character selection, that they must be represented in a means that actually respects the original source material.

I am glad Animal Crossing does so well, but I don't think any characters from the game should be in it.

Like I said ealier on this matter.  Nintendogs sold well, should we have virtual Puppy as a fighter?  No.  It is represented fine by an item.  

How about Brain Age, lets have that floating head Doctor as a character.

It doesn't work and doesn't fit.

Though it would be funny, if there was an item that you threw at somebody that made them solve a math problem before being able to move again.  You could just have to free hand write the number.  Or it could be multiple choice and you just press your button.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 15, 2006, 11:59:44 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang No characters.  Animal Crossing wasn't about fighting in any way shape or form, and Brawl would not fit or honor the spirit of the original series.

That is also another element people forget about character selection, that they must be represented in a means that actually respects the original source material.


First, I must have missed the game where Captain Falcon got out of his car and starting beating people up, and the one where Fox (from the original SSB) got out of his Arwing and kicked people. Game and Watch didn't attack people in any of his games, neither did Zelda or Dr. Mario.

None of these characters were "fighters" and yet they created movesets for them.

Second, Nintendogs are an item because there's no feasible character from the game to include as a playable character because the point of the puppies is that they're customizable, just as a "player" from AC wouldn't work because they too are customizable, but that doesn't mean that there aren't characters which WOULD work.

The argument is like saying that F-Zero would have to include a CAR from the game to be properly represented, but they used a driver instead because a driver works as a playable character, just as Fox wouldn't work in his Arwing but works on foot.

The same goes for AC: the player may not control the character of Mr. Resetti or KK, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't be easily recognized icons from the AC world capable of fighting in Brawl like many other characters who weren't designed as fighters.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 15, 2006, 12:04:42 PM
Here's my predictions for what charactors I think will be added for each series.

Mario - Daisey and Waluigi (With them in the entire main Mario cast would be in.)

Zelda - Ganon and Tingle (I expect Ganon to be in there as either a transformation from Ganondorf or a seperate charactor.  Even though everyone will want to kill me, Tingle has been in several Zelda game and played some important roles.  Plus he's popular in Japan and is getting his own game there so I think he has a good chance.)

Donkey Kong - Diddy or a Diddy/Dixie team (I'd prefer the team format since it'd make a much better charactor.)

F-Zero - Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow (Samurai Goroh is Captions Falcon rival so he has the best chance, but if for some reason he's not then the only charactor left would be Black Shadow for being the villian of the series.)

Metroid - Ridley (He's been in nearly all the games and is Samus hated nemisis.  And for everyone complaining about his size, they can make him the same size as Bowser and he'd work just fine.)

Earthbound - Jeff or Poo (Since Earthbound was the only one in the series to be released here and Mother 2 is the best selling Mother game in Japan, it'd have to be one of them.)

Kirby - Since Metaknight is in I dont expect anymore.  If they do add another one though then it'd be King Dedede.

Star Fox - Wolf (He's Fox's rival and very popular, meaning he's in.)

Pokemon - Deoxys (He's pretty much the Mewtwo of Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald Pokemon games, plus with his different forms he'd make a very unique charactor.)

Fire Emblem - Sigurd or Ike (Sigurd is 2nd only to Marth in popularity in Japan and Ike was from the most recent Fire Emblem and is  quite popular in both the US and Japan.)

Third Party - Sonic and Megaman (I've already said my reasons for this several times.)

As for new series I expect Caption Olimar from Pikmin and an Animal Crossing charactor to be in the game as well.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on August 15, 2006, 12:16:05 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Earthbound - Jeff or Poo (Since Earthbound was the only one in the series to be released here and Mother 2 is the best selling Mother game in Japan, it'd have to be one of them.)

Why not Paula?  Or one of the enemies/bosses?  I wanna be a starman! O:
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 15, 2006, 12:18:23 PM
From Kirby I think it be funny to see one of those little generic spear guys as a character.
Though most of what you mentioned up there I would like to see as event battles, Ridley, Wolf, and Black Shadow.
Some series though they don't have fighting even in there background.  I rather see them represented in other ways.  (Like event, levels, and battlefields.)
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 15, 2006, 12:36:16 PM
Blue Falcon as a character is a Bounty Hunter.  He has a background story that says he is a fighter.  Yes, he never jumped out of his car...but it hits the written dialog of the character, and even fits some of the atmosphere of the F-Zero series (dangerous high stakes racing.)

Doctor Mario is Mario.  Just because he is in a Doctor's outfit doesn't change who he is.  It was just a simple twist to the original character.

Peach has been adventuring in SMB2, and had roles (although limited) in the Mario RPGs.

Mr. Game and Watch is an exception, but nothing in his games said he couldn't have had a fighting game.  Simply put, he was put in the game to represent Nintendo's history.

And to represent Animal Crossing the best is through items or a game level and not character involvement.

I didn't pull that idea out of my butt.  It came from developers talking about how Sakurai tried to be very respectful and honoring of every character he used in Smash Brothers Melee.  So much so that it got around and even 3rd parties respected his takes on classic characters.  

I think respecting the character also means respecting the franchises they come from and what ideals they portrayed.

Pikmin works because there was battling in Pikmin and the idea of teamwork can still be incorporated into the character creation of Olmar in Brawl.

Chibi-Robo had combat elements and he could make a very engaging and fun character in the game.  (Although his size would have to be increased...but so did pikachus.)

Now Drill Dozer is a perfect fit for Smash Brothers, as Jill screams tough fighter and she has a mech to prove it.

This is the kinda stuff I am talking about.  But Animal Crossing is a game about the peaceful joys of life.  Earning money, designing a home to live in, recreational activities, writing and so on.  I just don't think the characters work.

However, their items as mentioned before in this thread earlier make for great inclusions.  Golden Shovels could dig traps to fall into and such.  Very fun.



Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 15, 2006, 12:47:12 PM
Where the hell is Wolf Link/Midna?  Why haven't they been listed!? >=|

And yes, I demand Jill from Drill Dozer be in the game...Unique characters for the win...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 15, 2006, 01:05:38 PM
There should be a Darkworld level that does weird things to all the characters.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 15, 2006, 01:06:57 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
They're definitely dropping some characters, but I can't find any immediate confirmation that these characters will be the Climbers, G&W and Young Link (to be replaced with WW Link).

Sakurai supposedly said it in an interview, but I can't find the immediate interview.


There was no interview. That's the power of the internet: mention a source that can't immediatly be confirmed, and then be believed by the masses until it never materializes (which is what happend).

As I recall, Young Link and Game & Watch were also included in the "supposed confirmation" of characters to be removed, while he announced that Bowser Jr., the Cel-shaded Link and Ridley would all be playable... which is all BS at this stage.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 15, 2006, 01:15:35 PM
Yep, I don't want to see Bowser Jr.  I don't like that Character.  Especially since he killed all of his siblings.  Though he has a fair shot of being in there.  I just hope he isn't.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 16, 2006, 05:07:44 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang I didn't pull that idea out of my butt.  It came from developers talking about how Sakurai tried to be very respectful and honoring of every character he used in Smash Brothers Melee.  So much so that it got around and even 3rd parties respected his takes on classic characters.


So that's why he turned Ganondorf from an evil wizard into an evil ninja, right?

Honoring the character, indeed...

Quote

I think respecting the character also means respecting the franchises they come from and what ideals they portrayed.


So I take it you haven't PLAYED Animal Crossing, have you?


(I wish I had an animated gif of him calling down lighting every time he screams)

Mr. Resetti is a raging ball of anger and high blood pressure. His sole purpose is to verbally abuse the player after they shut off the power because doing so can be used to go back and redo events you might have done incorrectly (aka cheating). He wields a pickaxe and speaks with a Brooklyn accent (judging by the accentuation of his speech patterns).

Here are a few "choice" dialogue pieces from the happy go lucky world of Animal Crossing's very own Mr. Resetti...

Quote

First, you're gonna show me how sorry you are, and I'd better FEEL it!
I don't want no smirks, eye-rolls, or nothin' like that.
I want remorse, punk!
Oh, an' don't try lyin'.
I can smell lies!  Smell 'em!
All you gotta do is be honest.
Gimme some genuine emotion, know what I mean?
You go for melodrama, you're gonna get the wrath of Resetti, you hear me?


Quote

AAAAAAARGH!
You know how many people I gotta repeat myself to?
JUST YOU, PUNK!
Read my lips:  save first, and then, and ONLY then, turn the power off...
How many times I gotta tell you that?
...HEY!
You doin' this...on purpose?
Are you maybe turnin' the power off without savin' for laughs?
You wanna get the crazy mole out here an' see what he says next, that it?
This entertains you, punk?
You think this is funny?
A little stand-up mole?


Quote

Y'know, I been with the Reset Intervention Bureau since the family took over.
I gotta say, though, I ain't NEVER had to deal with a nutjob like you.
It's OK.  I been trained.
It just means I gotta lose the kid gloves an' get serious.
I may even hit the gym and go a few rounds with my cousin, Vicious Vole Vinnie.
See if you wanna keep resettin' after I bounce a couple mole elbows off ya!


Mr. Resetti could be in SSBB, deftly wield his pickaxe against his foes and still very much capture the original ideals of his character and the franchise he originated from.

The whole point of Animal Crossing is that you live in an ongoing world in which time passes and things change. You attempt to violate this natural progression and Resetti confronts you about your misdeeds, hellbent upon keeping you honest. In that way, he is the protector of the virtual AC world. Combine this with his rage and the fact that he's the only AC character always wielding a weapon and he would be a perfect representative for AC in SSBB.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: zakkiel on August 16, 2006, 05:26:01 AM
Quote

I'm not going to even pretend that I have the skill to be locked in combat with an excellent player at one end of a stage, completely focused on what he'll do next and how I should be trying to counter it, AND be able to pay attention to what another player is doing across the stage at the same time.
Obviously not. Which is why I said the number of players, not items, was critical. If you have three players it becomes chaotic and if you have four the outcome no longer has any real relationship to player skill. But I highly recommend trying two-player with items for a while.

I agree there should be no AC characters, but somehow I can see it happening. They have, after all, the same kind of feel as the Iceclimbers. Nintendo could stick one in as one of the cute/comical fighters.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 16, 2006, 05:48:11 AM
Actually I have played Animal Crossing, and I have seen Mr. Resetti, and his anger is there for humorous value.  Its funny.  And I still don't think it fits at all in the Super Smash Brothers Universe.  I think you are making extreme stretchs because you really like Animal Crossing and its characters.  Guess what.  I really love Animal Crossing too.  My wife and I rented the game 4-5 times in a row, and played it nonstop.  We didn't buy the game, because we weren't getting anything we need to get done, done.  I simply think there are better ways to represent that series.  That is just my opinion, which I have been trying to support with logic.

And Gannondorf is an odd cookie in Melee.  However, you must think about time restraints (which you mention all the time about the game being rushed) and a decision had to be made.  Do we include him as a clone, or do we axe a potential character EVERYONE wants to play as.

The clone also isn't completely destorying his character.  He is still an powerful foe that attacks in a manner reflecting his sheer power and brute force.  Would it have been better to have non-clone.  Yes. But you can't say he was treated with disrepect.  

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 16, 2006, 06:11:06 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang And I still don't think it fits at all in the Super Smash Brothers Universe.


The whole POINT of the SSB universe is that it DOESN'T fit. Captain Falcon punching Pikachu is a situation which is never supposed to happen in the realm of VG realities. Link stabbing Mario is the same. SSB is intended to be a mix of the oddest combinations of characters coming together to pound the crap out of each other.

People have already said that bringing characters from fighting games into SSB would be weak because those characters are already fighters in their games. The same goes for SSB. The point of the game is to see characters which AREN'T fighting game characters or fighting characters at ALL used in a fighting game and in that vein of thinking, an AC character makes PERFECT sense.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 16, 2006, 06:21:03 AM
There is some logic to that.  I personally just can't see an AC characters really working...because of what I mentioned.

I don't picture AC characters fighting period.

I do see Captain Falcon as a character that could get in a fight.  Pikachu obviously, gets in fights all the time.  These two characters should never met in their respective universes, but if they did I could see a possible throw down.

If AC characters are included I would not be completely upset or disheartened, as long as they didn't replace my Mega Man or Bomber Man slot.  However, if they asked me: "How do you feel about AC characters in Brawl," I would have to tell them I don't think it fits at all.

And just so you know.  I am not one of those people that say bringing Chun Li or other fighters into Brawl would ruin the experience.  I would love Sakuri or Li in there to add more variety and female characters.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 16, 2006, 06:28:51 AM
Personally I wouldn't want Figheters from Arcade fighting games in more because of there very traditional for the genre moveset.  It would add seriousness to the series that I don't think that should be there.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 16, 2006, 06:39:07 AM
That's why I think Resetti fits: he's big, mean, angry and armed. In fact, I think he's the ONLY character that fits because his tendencies are toward violence right from the start. Resetti also talks about fighting in one of his many dialogues, even threatening to attack the player.

As for female characters, I'd prefer to see non-fighting game females given precedence because they haven't been in fighting games before. Like I said, the whole point of SSB is putting characters into a situation where they typically aren't. Street Fighter characters wouldn't share that same novelty.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 16, 2006, 06:53:53 AM
The more I think of Drill Doser and Jill, the more I think she fits...and I would love to see her redesign in the game.

I see her Drill Bit having an inner groove that houses the Perpellars for flying...which will pop out on Up special moves to float.  

I also think most of her moves should be based on charging attacks (Switching gears) and the ability to cause massive damage.  Another cool move would be the ability to Dig through the levels in some manner destroying the enviroment for some time.

I would not want many characters from fighting games.  Sakuri fits because she was never ever series...and her incarnation in Marvel vs. Capcom 2 can prove that she could fit with some reworking.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 16, 2006, 07:39:53 AM
We go from arguing from speed and balance issues to talking about whether or not Animal Crossing is a valid fit for SSBB?

I think this thread should be locked.  I think all further SSBB discussion should be halted until more information appears.  Or until next January.  Whichever occurs last.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 16, 2006, 07:52:55 AM
I haven't played DD, but Jill definitely seemed to fit the SSB bill.

Strell, if we didn't talk about it here, it would no doubt appear in some other random thread. Better just to keep it contained.

And I wouldn't call this "arguing". I'm not even into the "excited" category, let alone verging on "angry" and I'm sure Spak isn't either.

I agree with his point that most of the AC characters (in fact, all but 1) wouldn't make for good fighters in SSBB because of their cheerful outlook and good nature. I cite Resetti as the only counter example because he's a bad-mouthed, foul-tempered hardass wielding a pickaxe which is almost as big as he is.

I don't see much of a stretch between a fearsome tough guy mole with bloodshot eyes, a pickaxe and a bad attitude and a SSB character, but were Resetti not in the game I'd be forced to agree that there's no one who would really classify as a combatant for SSB.

Also, Spak and I understand that this discussion has no relevance on reality: we're just arguing for the pure hell of it because it has no bearing on who Sakurai decides to include in the game.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 16, 2006, 08:21:50 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
The whole POINT of the SSB universe is that it DOESN'T fit. Captain Falcon punching Pikachu is a situation which is never supposed to happen in the realm of VG realities. Link stabbing Mario is the same. SSB is intended to be a mix of the oddest combinations of characters coming together to pound the crap out of each other.

People have already said that bringing characters from fighting games into SSB would be weak because those characters are already fighters in their games. The same goes for SSB. The point of the game is to see characters which AREN'T fighting game characters or fighting characters at ALL used in a fighting game and in that vein of thinking, an AC character makes PERFECT sense.

There is no SSB universe.  That would be adding a layer of complexity that simply isn't necessary or wanted.  The point of the game isn't to put things together that don't fit, either.  The point of the game, as you said, is to have Nintendo characters duking it out just for the fun of it.  There's absolutely no reason that something that makes perfect sense couldn't happen in the game, just like there's no reason anything about the game has to make sense at all.  That's simply irrelevant.  The question to ask is, "Would it be fun if...?" not "Would it make sense if...?"  So would it be fun to have Mr. Resetti beat Bowser with a pickaxe?  Probably.  Would it be fun to see Mario throw Chun Li into a Klaptrap?  Probably.  Anyone asking anything more complicated is taking the game way too seriously.  I think both are very unlikely, though.

I should note that I changed my own mind on the subject while trying to form my argument.  I opposed having Mr. Resetti as a fighter, but when I reduced my argument down to the essentials, I realized that I was contradicting myself.  I still don't really want him to be a fighter, but I can't offer up any reason more solid than that I just don't like the idea.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 16, 2006, 08:37:51 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: PartyBear There is no SSB universe.  That would be adding a layer of complexity that simply isn't necessary or wanted.  The point of the game isn't to put things together that don't fit, either.  The point of the game, as you said, is to have Nintendo characters duking it out just for the fun of it.


I think it's the novelty of seeing characters from different games and universes fighting with each other which makes SSB so appealing.

I just think that the AC universe should be represented with more than just a stage (after all, what stages have we had that don't also have a character to represent them, other than the generic "Battlefield" stages?). I'm not asking anyone to agree, but that's my reasoning.

What was your contradicting argument, by the way?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 16, 2006, 08:42:41 AM
Very True.

We are basically fans discussing something we love.

Smash probably things I am crazy for wanting Chun Li, and Sakuri in the game...and I am crazy in love with those two.

And I think Smash is crazy for Animal Crossing characters...because he is crazy in love with Resetti.

I kid.

Or Do I.

Hmmm, I will give you Resetti if you give me Bomber Man, and I will call it even and drop AC.

Though, I do want Golden Items that give more damage than typical Smash Items.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 16, 2006, 08:45:56 AM
I could see Chun Li because Street Fighter was a Nintendo exclusive for a long while, but if there's going to be Capcom representation, it'll likely be Megaman.

And yeah, Bomberman would be fine by me, so long as he's not Bomberman 3000.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 16, 2006, 09:03:01 AM
So Smash, what will I have to do to convince you the online collectable card game idea of mine as a side game is a good idea?


Oh, and since this thread is repeating itself somewhat here is a broader personal question for everyone.

Treating Brawl like it is a true sequel which will be not only adding new characters, but will be adding and possibly subtracting gameplay mechanics, and themes to create a brand new game...what would you do to series to improve it.

Basically, Brawl is yours to create.  What do you think needs to be done to make it the best Smash Brothers game possible?  If it is just adding characters what characters?  If it is changing gameplay mechanics what mechanics?  Why.  Get however detailed you would like.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 16, 2006, 09:13:51 AM
Quote

Also, Spak and I understand that this discussion has no relevance on reality: we're just arguing for the pure hell of it because it has no bearing on who Sakurai decides to include in the game.

PGC:  So Sakurai-Sama why did you put Mr. Resetti, Chun-li, and Sakuri in the game?
Sakurai: Because Spak-Spang loves Chun-li and Sakuri and Smash_Brother loves Mr.Resetti of course.

Quote

There is no SSB universe.

You're right Partybear because they all live in Captian N's Universe.  They are his toys pre-his glorious ascension to the Nintendo Universe.  The Shocking thing is that SSBB is really Post-Glorious Ascension.  So expect Captian N and Gameboy to be playable characters.

Quote

Basically, Brawl is yours to create. What do you think needs to be done to make it the best Smash Brothers game possible? If it is just adding characters what characters? If it is changing gameplay mechanics what mechanics? Why. Get however detailed you would like.

Pudding.
I'll actually have to think about this.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 16, 2006, 09:40:47 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
What was your contradicting argument, by the way?

Essentially, I don't want to see Resetti in Brawl because I don't think he would fit in, but when I composed my thoughts, I realized that was hypocritical.  I had to admit that the nature of the game allows for darn near anything.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 16, 2006, 09:49:05 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: PartyBear Essentially, I don't want to see Resetti in Brawl because I don't think he would fit in, but when I composed my thoughts, I realized that was hypocritical.  I had to admit that the nature of the game allows for darn near anything.


I understand.

That's the exact same argument which gets Petey Piranha through the door.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 16, 2006, 09:52:38 AM
Smash Brothers has been a game that has relied on a few key elements in its game design.  These elements have made the game unique, but has also limited character recreation and ideas.

One of these elements is the triple jump.  More than half the characters rely on a triple jump mechanic to save them from being knocked off the arena.  I would more diversity in character design that moves away from the need from every character needing a triple jump.

Several Heavy Hitter characters don't really deserve a triple jump.  It doesn't hit there character and they could create a better mechanic for this gameplay.  Examples: Bowser, Donkey Kong, Gannondorf.  

These characters I would argue would be better made without the third jump.  To balance this handicapped I would make them very hard to Smash, and very powerful in attacks.  Bowser shouldn't be a character strong in the air, or having a great come back ability.  However, he should be very powerful on the ground.

And I guess that is what I mean.  Perhaps creating type of characters.

Standard Smash Characters:  Marios and such what will retain the triple jump aspects.

Floating/Flying Characters: These characters will have advantage in the sky, but are weak against Smash attacks and could be knocked clear out...and they won't have as many advantagous on the ground.  Examples: Pit, Kirby, MetaKnight, ect.

Tank Characters:  These characters very strong on the ground, and very hard to push around.  They can absorb tons of damage before being knocked out.  They won't have a third jump, but would still have a second jump.  Either by not having a double jump, or not having that special Upward attacks.  

Speciality Characters:  Certain characters play by in a very unique fashion...and they should stand out.  Nes, Ice Climbers are examples.  Perhaps future examples could be Jill from Drill Doser or Olimar.  These characters may not fall into any categories above, or may fit into several.

Now take those classes and determine which characters fit into what...assign speed and damage levels and you can create a much more varied number of combatants.  Moving away from the third jump as a neccessity and speed as a necessity will help create variety in characters and a more fleshed out experience.

Air Combat:  With the inclusion of more air based characters, Air Combat needs to be enhanced.  Specifically, Air Dashes need to be implimented, and Air Combos.  Air Combat needs to become an intrigal part of experience.  I would replace the Air Dodges with Air Dashes that still dodge incoming attacks, and can help set up attacks from behind.  

8-Direction Item throwing.  Grounded characters need to be able to throw items in 8 directions to help combat against air opponents.  As well    some of the guns should have 8 way directional shooting...but not all of them.  

Interactive Environments.  It would be nice if there is more interaction in the Environments.  For example, perhaps Donkey Kong's levels have vines you can grab onto and climb underneath the level.  You can still fight while holding onto these vines, but it can help protect you from being knocked off.  As well two vines on each side of the level could constantly be swinging for you to grab.
Real environment interaction like this will create more dynamic situations, that don't rely on just moving the level around or environmental hazards for changing the experience.

More powerful throws.  I think throws need to take a bigger role the game this time.  Smash attacks should be used to knock highly damaged opponents around, but Throws should be able to do the same amount of toss no matter what damage level.  How far you throw opponents will be based on that individual characters strength and who they are trying to throw.  Bowser should be a character you fear to be thrown by, and Equally you shouldn't be trying to throw him.  

Enhanced Adventure mode needs to focus less on combat and more on designing a level that fits each franchise.  If this means creating mini-game type levels that recreates the game the characters are from so be it.  It will make the game engaging and interesting.  

Collectable:  I would love the collectables in the game to be used for something.  I suggested an online Smash Brothers Collectable Card game.  However, anything would work for me.  So long as the each collectable I gather enhances that experience more, and gives me a true desire to collect everything.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 16, 2006, 10:01:12 AM
I would like to add with these different classes.  Auto targetting the sides with the hook shoot or the Samus Grapple beams.  The weapons that can get you back onto the stage.  There are very difficult and limited right now.  I think the range should be the factor.  If you beam can't reach it can't reach.  Let that replace the third jump on some.
Mini-game type levels may be fun but they could also be to far of a deviation.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 16, 2006, 10:02:08 AM
I like these ideas.

One of my ideas along a similar vein is that certain characters' attacks should not phase heavier characters. For example, Pichu's regular A attack should not cause Bowser to stop mid-smash attack so he can cringe. Damage would still be inflicted to Bowser, but he would shrug off the attack and Pichu would be hit with his smash, the same way Fox's laser does damage but does not interrupt the character it strikes.

I also like the idea of tank characters which aren't very mobile but are very difficult to KO. Combine these two elements and I think heavy characters would be properly balanced for the next game. Realistically, when Fox grabs Donkey Kong, who is going to be pulled off their feet, DK or Fox? Maybe lighter characters should grab heavy characters and try to pound on them until the heavy can shake them off.

Quote

More powerful throws. I think throws need to take a bigger role the game this time. Smash attacks should be used to knock highly damaged opponents around, but Throws should be able to do the same amount of toss no matter what damage level. How far you throw opponents will be based on that individual characters strength and who they are trying to throw. Bowser should be a character you fear to be thrown by, and Equally you shouldn't be trying to throw him.


Also agreed in full. Bowser and DK had surprisingly weak throws for being their respective sizes.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 16, 2006, 10:12:04 AM
Actually I don't agree with the throw thing in its entirety.  The whole percentage I always felt was the character getting lighter.  So lets say you're Bowser and I'm Jigglypuff in SSBB.  I don't expect to be able to throw you at 0%, though I would expect a move to replace it where I latch on and beat you, but, at say 100% I should be able to throw you like a medium character at 0%.  Every percent after 100% should let me throw you farther because thats the natural progression.

It sort of work like this:

Heavy Character:
0% Sap Damage (slower) ---->100% Start being moved by attacks like a Medium Character (also get a slight speed boost because your lighter)--->300% Hit around like a Light Character (little speed boost) so on so forth

Of course for a medium character at 100% he get a slight speed boost and be knocked around more like a light character at 0%.  You could even make some characters more floaty if that would better fit as the get lighter.  Even totally forget about the extra speed.  I think that would work nicely though.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 16, 2006, 10:21:26 AM
Ceric:  I love how you think.  Yeah, special moves that allow you to get back that aren't third jumps.  

Samus could grab the sides with the her grabbling beam (Link with his Hook Shot) this should be auto aim, and could even work attaching to other people.  Yoshi could use his tongue.

Smash:  Yeah, we have discussed this before, but I love slower more powerful characters in games.  I love the idea of a small fry kicking serious butt on them, and suddenly makes a mistake and the big guy finally lands a single devestating attack.  It needs to be balanced, sure, but it needs to be included.

I also thought of another.  I don't want a very complicated Combo system, but I would like a simple Combo System that actually calculates the Combos you are performing.  A Hit count could be placed over your Damage indicator and it can count your string attacks as you go.  Something simple like this might not change gameplay that much, but would stress finding combos more.  And then a max and min combo count and awards can be mentioned at the end of the match.  As well Combos can be included in judging how good you fought when judging the games on skilled combat for the winner.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 16, 2006, 10:28:03 AM
More silly titles and awards at the end of a match.  In particular a lot with very weird no overlapping conditions.  (Hit a Yellow Character enough time that it would give you a Yellow color if you were to take the number and plug it in as a color could be called "Yellow Man")
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on August 16, 2006, 10:29:18 AM
I think 8 direction attacks of any sort will make playing the game too complex.  We've already got people complaining that they can't do up+A attacks without jumping when they don't want to.  If you add diagonal attacks, the controls will suffer.  You won't be as sure to throw an item in the direction you intend to.  Plus, one of the best things about the game is the simplified move list.  Making the move list more complicated at all would be a Bad Thing.  Even if it's limited to throwing items.

I also take issue with removing any character's recovery move because it doesn't make sense for him to have one.  As I already pointed out, making sense is perhaps the weakest argument anyone can use regarding this series.  Furthermore, having entire classes of characters that control differently would go back to my problem with making the controls more complicated.  Keeping things simple is paramount.

Quote

Spak-Spang
How far you throw opponents will be based on that individual characters strength and who they are trying to throw. Bowser should be a character you fear to be thrown by, and Equally you shouldn't be trying to throw him.

Need I point out that Mario's spinning throw is taken directly from the way he threw Bowser to defeat him in Super Mario 64?  Throws were over-nerfed in Melee, true, but this fix sounds even worse.  Throws that always toss someone the same distance regardless of damage would lead to major balance problems.

Quote

Smash_Brother
One of my ideas along a similar vein is that certain characters' attacks should not phase heavier characters. For example, Pichu's regular A attack should not cause Bowser to stop mid-smash attack so he can cringe. Damage would still be inflicted to Bowser, but he would shrug off the attack and Pichu would be hit with his smash, the same way Fox's laser does damage but does not interrupt the character it strikes.


I don't like this idea much.  I agree that there's a problem with slow, heavy characters being kept off balance by fast characters, but that's pretty much the only way a lightweight could expect to beat a heavyweight.  If Bowser can smash you regardless, what chance do you have against him?  I think you're trying so hard to overcome one character's weakness that you're overcompensating.  I think a better answer would be to give the heavy characters faster weak attacks so that they can return the favor.  If a Pichu player and a Bowser player got into a slapping match, Bowser would win by attrition, so it would cease to be a viable strategy for the Pichu player.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on August 16, 2006, 10:30:34 AM
*tosses and turns in bed*
Mr. Sakurai! Come back! No! Don't leave meeeeeeeeeee!
*falls into a troubled, fitful, nightmare-ridden sleep*

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 16, 2006, 11:13:08 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: PartyBear I don't like this idea much.  I agree that there's a problem with slow, heavy characters being kept off balance by fast characters, but that's pretty much the only way a lightweight could expect to beat a heavyweight.  If Bowser can smash you regardless, what chance do you have against him?  I think you're trying so hard to overcome one character's weakness that you're overcompensating.  I think a better answer would be to give the heavy characters faster weak attacks so that they can return the favor.  If a Pichu player and a Bowser player got into a slapping match, Bowser would win by attrition, so it would cease to be a viable strategy for the Pichu player.


The idea would be to force the light character to attack from the air instead of being able to run up to Bowser and attack him mercilessly, which SHOULD be reality in SSB. Maybe after a certain % the heavy character will start reacting to weaker hits, but some kind of buffer which just prevents heavy characters from being eaten alive by slower characters would be ideal.

Maybe just give the move precedence to heavy characters (which it generally should be anyway) so that they can overpower specific characters when they attempt similar attacks. DK's smash should override Mario's, for example, in all cases.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 16, 2006, 12:13:39 PM
Like how I said above?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 16, 2006, 12:18:36 PM
Which do you mean? Getting lighter with time or move precedence for heavy characters?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: wandering on August 16, 2006, 12:33:47 PM
> the first one.
That's not a verb I recognize.

> tell Smash_Brother that he said what I already said above.
I don't see any Smash_Brother here.

> F**k!
Real adventurers do not use such language.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 16, 2006, 12:45:42 PM
Throws wouldn't be as powerful as Smashes, don't get me wrong.  But I think they should do signicant distance...and I think it should be the only means to sorta Smash characters with less damage %.  Throwing is not easy.  

Also I think they should take that up button jumping out completely.  It complicates things, and it would allow for better useage of up attacks and such.  

I also didn't say that Heavier characters can Auto Smash smaller characters...but their Smash attacks should always send lighter characters further and easier.  It will force Smaller characters to hit and fade, and not try to engage in exchanging blows, because lighter characters shouldn't get away with that.  

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 16, 2006, 12:50:05 PM
Sorry, I'm on my PDA.
Smash_brother:  l meant the bit about getting lighter.

Wandering: I don't swear.

(also never finished the Adventures Correspondence School )

10 points to whoever  can name the game that is from using the original name
   
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on August 16, 2006, 04:30:46 PM
I think making Samus' grappling beam auto-aim at ledges is a cool way to increase its use as a recovery move, but I definitely don't think it should be used as a replacement for Samus' third jump, if that's what you guys were suggesting.  Samus has always been really acrobatic in the 2D games (slightly less in the Prime series), and I think she should retain that in Smash Bros.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Aussie Ben PGC on August 16, 2006, 11:08:18 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
(also never finished the Adventures Correspondence School )



Hero's Quest: So You Want To Be A Hero.  I take it you signed your name in the Adventurer's Journal with a flourish?  Man, when are they going to finish that VGA remake of Trial By Fire?  I'm itching to play it.

Also, put in Solar Boy Django in Brawl.  Or perhaps Stafi.  We need more Stafi.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 17, 2006, 01:21:47 AM
Smoke:  I think Samus should have two nice regular jumps, and at the peak of her regular jump she can Screw Attack, but not for as much additional Air.  And probably for only 1 or 2 times in that single jump sequence.  I just want to make sure she can pop out of the Screw Attack fast enough to latch onto ledges.  This would help distinguish her more than having the same Uppercut special attack.

Anymore people have their own personal desires for the game?

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 17, 2006, 04:45:41 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang I also didn't say that Heavier characters can Auto Smash smaller characters...but their Smash attacks should always send lighter characters further and easier.  It will force Smaller characters to hit and fade, and not try to engage in exchanging blows, because lighter characters shouldn't get away with that.


The trophies for Bowser actually tell you that the best way to beat him is to just get in his face and keep attacking, which should be the exact opposite of what you need to do to beat him.

In Mario 64, there was a REASON you had to run behind him: attacking from the front equated suicide.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 17, 2006, 05:00:51 AM
Smash:That is funny.  In Almost every single Mario game that is the exact opposite way to defeat Bowser:

Mario One: You had to sneak past him and use tha Axe.  (Unless you were lucky and had fire power)

Mario Three:  You had to force him create a hole for him to fall into...or get luck with Fire Flower.

Super Mario World:  Indirectly attack him with his robots.  No other way.  

Super Mario World 2: Wait for an opening and jump on him...then Aim and throw eggs at him from a distance.

Super Mario 64:  Sneak behind him grab his tail and throw him into a Bomb.  The Bomb is the only thing that can hurt him.

Hmmmm....yip, I think history proves attacking Bowser directly is the only means to defeat him.  

If they could get heavy characters to feel unique, play more balanced, and be fun, I would definately want many more Heavy characters in the game...and Nintendo actually has quite a few heavy characters they can choose to put in the game.

King Hippo
King Deedeedee
Bowser
Jill from Drill Dozer
Ganon
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 17, 2006, 05:13:21 AM
KING HIPPO IS DEFINITELY A NEW CHARACTER

this is a message board.  this is truth.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 17, 2006, 06:10:06 AM
AS long as King Hippo has an easy to take advantage of patner and delay to his attacks we are all good.

(Joking)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 17, 2006, 08:30:59 AM
I think all the characters should have morphing capabilities.  It only makes sense.

Mario -> Dr. Mario
Luigi -> Ghost Hunter Luigi
Wario (classic) -> Wario (Biker)
Yoshi (classic) -> Yoshi (Paper Mario)
Princess -> Daisy
Zelda -> Sheik
Link -> Young/Cel Link
Ganondorf -> Ganon
Fox -> Falco
Captain Falcon -> Samurai Goro (or whatever the dude's name is)
Ness -> Poo/Paula/Jeff/Mother 3 Hero
Donkey Kong -> Diddy Kong
Bowser -> Bowser Jr.
Jigglypuff -> Wigglytuff
Pikachu -> Pichu
Marth -> Roy
Kid Icarus (classic) -> Kid Icarus (new)
Ice Climbers Popo -> Ice Climbers Nana (just switch them, but with new attacks)
Mewtwo -> Mew
Samus -> Zero Suit Samus
Kirby -> Metaknight

Man...who does that leave?

Even with new characters it works:

Solid Snake -> Big Boss or Gray Fox (whatever the Ninja's name is)
Megaman (rumored) -> X or Zero
Simon Belmont (rumored) -> Alucard
Geno (rumored) -> ....Maybe Mallow?
Ryu (perhaps) -> Ken

You know, when I started writing this, it was a total joke, but honestly, it's not that terrible of an idea, and it works out surprisingly well.  There's only a few that wouldn't honestly work (Mr. Game and Watch?  Maybe he turns into a G&W variant?)

I'd rather them just do tag functions if someone thought this was a good idea.  

And personally I don't really care to see/not see this implemented.  Again, this started out as a joke, but once I look at the list, it just works.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on August 17, 2006, 08:45:42 AM
Quote

Jigglypuff -> Wigglytuff
That made me laugh.
Quote

Ice Climbers Popo -> Ice Climbers Nana (just switch them, but with new attacks)
It really should be Ice Climbers -> Baby Mario & Baby Luigi (Can be substituted with Diddy and Dixie Kong.)
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 17, 2006, 10:58:57 AM
Vudu:  What a strange idea...but it could work as a special mode.  Kinda like Tag-Team in the other fighting games.  

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 17, 2006, 11:12:19 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Aussie Ben PGC
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
(also never finished the Adventures Correspondence School )



Hero's Quest: So You Want To Be A Hero.  I take it you signed your name in the Adventurer's Journal with a flourish?  Man, when are they going to finish that VGA remake of Trial By Fire?  I'm itching to play it.

Also, put in Solar Boy Django in Brawl.  Or perhaps Stafi.  We need more Stafi.


Ten Points to Aussie Ben.  I really wish they would have a remake of that whole series so I could replay them.  (Keeping the text interface in the first.)  Also 2 was too frustrating for me and four was to glitchy on my machine.  While I'm talking about Seirra I hope that Dr. Brain Series also comes back.

On the ideas transforms feel sparkling innovationy when forced.  I mean Samus to ZS Samus or Mario to Dr. Mario seem logical.  Even Belmont to Alucard because he does that in game (Castlevaine 3)  But Snake to Ninja guy... Not really....

No ones disagreed with my weight idea so it must be accepted as good.  

Antwerp for Third Party Slot in SSBB!!! Fear the mighty Antwerp....
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 17, 2006, 12:58:14 PM
Ceric:  I fundamentally disagree with your weight thing, because it seems too hard to confusing, personally.  I want people to remain the same speed, damage potential and such.  Changing the weight is weird.

But when I possessed the question about how you would like to see Smash Brothers, I didn't want it to become a criticism of others ideas, because it is how they personally want the game.

And your personal vision may work very well better than mine...I just don't like it personally.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 17, 2006, 01:06:38 PM
Well let me ask you this.  I've never seen it come up.  How do you guys think the percentage works now?

I mean you hit someone and they go farther as the percentage goes up so aren't they getting lighter?  I find it hugely unfair if a smaller character could never throw a larger character.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 17, 2006, 01:28:14 PM
I'm rather amused at some of these "attempts" to make SSB more complex and, in the process, more confusing...What I love about the game is that it's not a standard fighting game, but merely a, sorry for the unintended pun, simple brawl for all to enjoy...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 18, 2006, 01:52:35 AM
Ceric:  It isn't becoming lighter per say.  Its simply the amount of Damage received by a character determines the distance he will be pushed back by attacks.  He isn't becoming lighter.

The biggest problem with actually making characters become lighter is that fighting games is about timing, and if you have learned Bowsers timing for his special moves, Smash attacks, and generally getting around then you are always expecting that reaction time and planning to use it to your advantage.  If that timing changes mid-game because someone has attacked you to the damage level that it makes you lighter.  You may have an advantage, but it could also be a disadvantage because it throw your timing off.

As for smaller characters never being able to throw larger characters being unfair.  I think you must remember to take in to consideration all the other advantageous smaller characters have.  Very quick attacks that can help them hit and rack up damage against a heavy character and fade away.  Usually, larger jumps and better triple jumps.  This one aspect of throws is a minor aspect of the game, and it could be programmed that smaller characters just do something different than a throw to larger characters.  

Also remember that I have been discussing fundamentally changing characters like Bowser to where they don't even have a triple jump, so that would also balance out the no throws, and the heavier Smash attacks they recieve.

Bill:  I am not per say trying to make it more complicated.  I am trying to add character balance, and a means to still create creative and original fighters for the game.  As for my inclusion of Air Dashs, and a Combo counter, I think both of those are long over due.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Zach on August 18, 2006, 03:39:18 AM
I have definately gotta agree with bill.  Part of the appeal of Smash Brothers is that it doesnt have all of this cr@p that makes it so confusing.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Darkheart on August 18, 2006, 06:00:59 AM
OH GUYS QUIT IT...........


The game just needs fatalities

Announcer: JIGGLYPUFF WINS!


FINISH HIM!

::Jigllypuff starts to sing and Marios head explodes::  

The END

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Kairon on August 18, 2006, 06:23:39 AM
Bill wins.

Leave Smash alone you philistines!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 18, 2006, 07:25:40 AM
You know you say not to complicate the game.  But Melee easily tripled the complexity over the original and we don't feel that game is complicated...and we know that Brawl is probably going to be simplified over Melee.  

But Melee had Smash attacks which you had to time to pixel perfection to use effectively, and dodges, dashes, extra special moves, Shields that have varying degrees of protection, Those Smash Spike moves and such.  The game was actually very complicated for what it is.  I don't think I even know about 1/20th the depth that is buried in that game.  It just seems simple.

Now, we are just discussing ideas and I don't think these ideas are any less or any more complicated than what is already present in the system.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on August 18, 2006, 08:14:02 AM
I agree with darkheart.  I want to see Mario's head explode.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Requiem on August 18, 2006, 08:26:58 AM
I think what they meant to say Spak-Spang, is keep the controls simple.

You can make a game complex, yet keep the controls simple enough that the complexity is almost transparent. That's IDEAL for any game (case in point, Mario Tennis 64).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 18, 2006, 09:11:07 AM
Requiem:  OH gotcha.  Oops.

I am definately all for that.  Which is kinda why I wanted to make only one means of jumping by a button.  I always thought Up to jump was problematic in many fighters, and ended up limiting how you approached designing attacks.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on August 19, 2006, 06:44:00 PM
I thought of a cool idea if they were to put Sonic in the game, rings could fly out of him when hit, and everyone who gets them gets slightly healed (1% per ring) so he'd become the punching bag that everyone vents their generic rage out at.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 20, 2006, 02:27:47 AM
What characters would you like to see in the next SSB?
Thought I post it because I haven't seen it posted and I don't want to lose anyones ideas.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: GoldenPhoenix on August 20, 2006, 02:48:30 PM
GoNintendo has a pretty awesome character select screen designed by one of the readers. You guys should check it out.

http://gonintendo.com/wp-content/photos/ssbbrawl_roster.jpg
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 21, 2006, 02:50:18 AM
Blech, if that's what the final screen looked like, I'd be sorely disappointed.

If Sakurai's strategy for deciding characters is "Let's include 3 more characters from each franchise" then it'll be even worse than Melee.

From everything I've read, though, he wants more franchises represented, not more of the same.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 21, 2006, 03:44:11 AM
Smash:  I agree with you.  We don't just need new characters from each franchise, we need new unique characters that add new variety and strategy to the game play.

Where are is Olimar with his Pikmin Army?

Where is Luigi with the Vaccuum, which would have some awesome abilities?

How about Jill with her Dozer?  No better character has been made to fit the combat style of Smash Brothers.

The list was kinda sad.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on August 21, 2006, 03:51:09 AM
I agree on a different selection of characters, but as for the layout and design of the screen, it's not bad.  Also, I would love to see Jody in the game.  Grrrrow...but yeah, new characters from different franchises with unique abilities is what they should be going for.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: EasyCure on August 21, 2006, 05:44:54 AM
i dont think anyone has thrown this out, as a joke or not, for a ice climbers replacement:

young link w/ Tingle.

and yes, they could be cel shaded too ;-).

controls:

up+b = tingle inflates balloon for an upward thrust while link does a spin attack (rising with tingle)
dwn+b = double bombs (both link and tingle pull out bombs to toss)
fwd+b = some sort of fwd slash combo where link and tingle trade off stabs. link uses his sword and tingle uses his magical map writing pen. it could kinda be like marth/roys move where it could be done in four steps or so
b = charge up cyclone spin from wind waker, has a downside where if near or at a full charge you get dazed for a second or two.

super (the smash bros. icon thingy) could be one of those giant bombs from FSA. only way to doge it is to be as close to the far edge of the screen as possible. it would make it dangerous becuase on smaller stages you'd have to time a jump to the edge of the screen and back without being caught in the blast. you could steal mario's idea about sonic, but replace them with ruppees that fall from every character cuaght in the blast that tingle automatically collects.

by the way i was joking in this post
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 23, 2006, 08:43:06 AM
Go check out the artwork for BWii.  I love the character designs, and I believe we definately need one of those troopers as a fighter in Brawl.  

Hey, perhaps we can be lucky and they can make it a female trooper...though probably not.

I think the cute/anime style would fit well in Smash Brothers Brawl.  The Backpack can carry different weapons, and to be different, you can have the player able to switch items and weapons to have different move sets and special moves.  

I know that Sakurai doesn't want real weapons in the game...but these characters are really cool, and I don't think using fictional military arms is that bad.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 23, 2006, 11:17:15 AM
Leave BWii guys out of this.

The Rifleman can only use a rifle, end of story.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 23, 2006, 11:38:29 AM
It could be a special agent which could be a female.  With an alternate attack.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on August 23, 2006, 11:45:16 AM
Now you're just making up characters.

And that sounds like StarCraft Ghost.  And we all know how that turned out.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on August 23, 2006, 01:37:35 PM
Was Ghost ever finished?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 23, 2006, 02:31:45 PM
Nope.
But it's fairly common for a game of Battalion Wars style to have a Hero character.  Considering when Brawl comes out they could make it.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 23, 2006, 04:09:52 PM
Wow, finally got some support for the idea.  Thanks.  

It doesn't have to be a female character, but I dunno, I figure if you are going to take a generic soldier and turn them into a hero type icon, you mind as well make it a female...because male soldiers are done to death.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: blackfootsteps on August 24, 2006, 01:48:59 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Blech, if that's what the final screen looked like, I'd be sorely disappointed.

If Sakurai's strategy for deciding characters is "Let's include 3 more characters from each franchise" then it'll be even worse than Melee.

From everything I've read, though, he wants more franchises represented, not more of the same.


I agree, but I must say Ray 01 from Custom Robo is an interesting (potential) addition to the roster. Moves exist already: regular attacks, aerial attacks, pods, bombs and a dash attack. They would obviously need to choose which specific parts but nevertheless it would be a cool character.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 24, 2006, 06:00:20 AM
Yeah, some of the characters would be a neat idea, but pulling in every last Zelda character and antagonist would just be silly.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 24, 2006, 11:20:15 AM
Here's my take on what the final charactor selection will be if the game does have around 40 charactors and how the franchises will be represented.

The thing is most of the charactors will be from the existing franchises that are in the game.  Even though I agree it would be great to have alot more franchises represented, the current franchises shown in Melee are the most widely known, best selling series of Nintendo.  Those are the series everyone knows about and so adding more charactors from those series are what's going to get the majority of the gaming population excited.

I'm going to say this right now, Mario, Zelda and Pokemon are all going to have at least two new charactors added to their series since those are Nintendo's top three.  Every other franchise will have one new charactor, except Ice Climbers and Game and Watch since there's no other charactors to add from those series.

So if you break it down we're looking at 13 new charactors coming from existing franchises.  Since Meta Knight and Wario have been shown that'd make 11 new charactors from existing franchises that we dont know about yet.  So when you add all that up, but take into account they will be removing some of the existing charactors, plus the the 2-3 third party charactors, I'd say we're looking at only about 4 new Nintendo frachises being represented and I'm counting Pit as one.  So that leaves 3 more charactors from different Nintendo franchises to be represented.  

The mostly likely choices for those three would have to be Caption Olimar, an Animal Crossing charactor and an Advance Wars charactor since the Pikmin, Animal Crossing and Wars series are the top three most popular franchises from Nintendo that are not represented.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Michael8983 on August 24, 2006, 01:31:12 PM
I think it would be awesome if they included the lead from Animal Crossing with all the available customizaions.
Like you choose the name, gender, and even design clothes for him/her.

As for Olimar. He could be a really interesting character. Perfect for novices.
He'd have really pathetic strength and agility but start each stock with a ton of tough AI Pikmin at his disposal to not only protect him but be called to attack other opponents.
Basically he'd be the toughest character with his Pikmin army but basically helpless if and when they're all disposed of.

Don't forget Chibi Robo either. It would make a great addition, cool stage too.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 25, 2006, 01:44:10 AM
Luigi Dude:  I like your analysis, but I think I will add to it, and disagree some.  

1)Wario will be a Mario representative, and I don't really see any need for another Mario character except maybe Daisy.
2)Zelda Ganondorf with a real move set will be one of the new characters and clone Ganondorf is gone.  
3)I see Pichu disappearing, so when two pokemon are added we will be losing one freeing up more space.
4)Animal Crossing is not the most likely series to get another character, far from it actually, and I have my doubts about Advance Wars as well.

Here is a major disagreement, I believe we will have less new characters from already represented franchises, and more single characters from popular franchises.

I expect representations from:
Pikmin
Drill Doser
Advanced Wars
and I expect around 4 to 5 different 3rd party characters represented.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 25, 2006, 05:46:05 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
and I expect around 4 to 5 different 3rd party characters represented.


Sakurai already went on record saying there was only going to be 2-3 in the game (including Snake), so that's not likely.

Also, just to be clear, that "around 40" number came from the same false piece of news that stated that Baby Bowser was confirmed, so we really have no idea what number of characters might make it in.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: JonLeung on August 25, 2006, 05:58:27 AM
Given the popularity of Animal Crossing, it would be nice if there were more than just trophies for Brawl.

While I would like a fighter like the main character, what would he/she be called?  "Boy"/"Girl"?  And it could be either really cool or really weird to see K.K. Slider or Tom Nook trying to fight.

Maybe Tom Nook could appear in a Coin match and he and Bandit (from the Yoshi games) might run by and grab any loose Coins?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 25, 2006, 06:18:50 AM
Dude.  Coin battle event match.  Nothing said Nook had to be a playable for you to fight him for the green.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 25, 2006, 06:22:22 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang 1)Wario will be a Mario representative, and I don't really see any need for another Mario character except maybe Daisy.


Wario is his own character now, though. He still registers as a "guest" in Mario games much in the same way DK does, but he has his own completely separate franchise in Wario Ware and he's even dressed accordingly in Brawl to indicate as much (the biker outfit), just like DK is his own separate franchise now.

They're both spinoffs of the Mario universe, yes, but when was the last time Wario or DK appeared in a "true" Mario platformer?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Tanookisuit on August 25, 2006, 06:42:37 AM
Talk of Baby Bowser has me thinking- wouldn't it be great if their was a weapon that, when used, turned all characters in to their alternate "baby" versions?  I'd dig that.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: JonLeung on August 25, 2006, 06:49:55 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Tanookisuit
Talk of Baby Bowser has me thinking- wouldn't it be great if their was a weapon that, when used, turned all characters in to their alternate "baby" versions?  I'd dig that.


Then what would happen to Pichu?

Or already-cutesy/shrimpy characters like the Ice Climbers?  Or Kirby?

Or Mr. Game & Watch?  o_0
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on August 25, 2006, 06:52:24 AM
They would just get smaller, like if they came in contact with a poison shroom.

I think it's a great idea.  But it probably won't happen because it's a lot of extra effort just for an item effect.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: JonLeung on August 25, 2006, 06:57:15 AM
Yeah, that's true.  Shrinking/growing would just be a change in the size of the polygons in the character models, but if they required different models (like, Baby Mario is clearly different than a shrunken Mario ie. no mustache, different eyes, different proportions, etc.) then that would be more processing.

Though if you wanted a massive-shrinking effect, there could be the Lightning Bolt from the Mario Kart games, which would be the same effect as a Poison Mushroom but it affects everyone.  Or maybe everyone in a radius.

After New Super Mario Bros., they might change the Poison Mushroom to the light-blue Mini Mushroom.  Though I guess the fun of jumping for mushrooms in a hurry is that you might mistake the colour of it and it might be the opposite of what you were expecting.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on August 25, 2006, 07:13:07 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
Sakurai already went on record saying there was only going to be 2-3 in the game (including Snake), so that's not likely.

Producers/directors say a lot of things. If you look back on any number of Miyamoto interviews, a lot of what he said never actually came true. Was he flat out lying? Maybe, maybe not. I remember when using the freehand controller to swing Link's sword in Twilight Princess was deemed "too tiring." Things change, for better or worse.

40 characters? 2-3 3rd party additions? I wouldn't put too much stake in that just because Sakurai said so. Satoru Iwata said Brawl was a launch title. That obviously didn't happen. Most people expect it Q2 2007, but it could come out Q4 or even in 2008.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on August 25, 2006, 07:26:22 AM
"Satoru Iwata said Brawl was a launch title. That obviously didn't happen."

At that point SSB was just going to be a remake of Melee with online...Seriously...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 25, 2006, 08:10:33 AM
Arbok:

If I remember the quote stated:  All the characters for the game are locked except for maybe one or two more third party characters.

Notice that isn't saying that Snake and only one or two more third party characters are the only ones in the game.  It said the character selection is already locked.  

So just like they had already talked to Konami and got the ok with Snake, they may have done the same with other third party characters.

I think 5 newcomer battles of third party characters would be an amazing surprise...specially if there is no clue whatsoever that they are in the game.  Once, they are unlocked it would be huge.

I also still look as Wario more of a Mario character than anything else.  Yes, he has two game franchises his self, but one is a Mario spinoff, and the other is a very unique game.  

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UncleBob on August 25, 2006, 08:33:49 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
They're both spinoffs of the Mario universe, yes, but when was the last time Wario or DK appeared in a "true" Mario platformer?


Wait, isn't Mario technically a spin-off of DK?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on August 25, 2006, 09:03:59 AM
Quote

Bill Aurion wrote:
At that point SSB was just going to be a remake of Melee with online...Seriously...

I know, but that's besides the point. Actually, that's the whole point. Someone says something is going to be one way then it ends up going  in an entirely different direction.

And honestly, look at what you just wrote. "A remake of Melee with online." Didn't Sakurai say that his team was having trouble with online multiplayer and that 4-player online might not be possible? Who do you believe? What is there to believe until there's more than someone's word to go by?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on August 25, 2006, 09:52:00 AM
Find the contradictions and soon they will unravel and reveal the truth.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on August 25, 2006, 10:10:13 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang 1)Wario will be a Mario representative, and I don't really see any need for another Mario character except maybe Daisy.


Wario is his own character now, though. He still registers as a "guest" in Mario games much in the same way DK does, but he has his own completely separate franchise in Wario Ware and he's even dressed accordingly in Brawl to indicate as much (the biker outfit), just like DK is his own separate franchise now.

They're both spinoffs of the Mario universe, yes, but when was the last time Wario or DK appeared in a "true" Mario platformer?

Actually Mario is a DK spinoff.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 25, 2006, 02:20:46 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
Producers/directors say a lot of things. If you look back on any number of Miyamoto interviews, a lot of what he said never actually came true. Was he flat out lying? Maybe, maybe not. I remember when using the freehand controller to swing Link's sword in Twilight Princess was deemed "too tiring." Things change, for better or worse.


Again, it's "not likely". Could Sakurai change his mind? Sure. However, I will take his word at this stage over fan musings.

Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
40 characters? 2-3 3rd party additions? I wouldn't put too much stake in that just because Sakurai said so.


Thanks for listening to me... -_-'

I will say it again, that 40 number never came from Sakurai, it came from that fake news piece that "confirmed" that Baby Bowser was in the game. So, again, we don't have the faintest idea how many they might be considering in total.

Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
Satoru Iwata said Brawl was a launch title. That obviously didn't happen. Most people expect it Q2 2007, but it could come out Q4 or even in 2008.


Last time I checked, Iwata wasn't Sakurai, and his vision, as Bill said, was a last case scenario in case Sakurai turned it down. If you don't trust Sakurai, that's fine, but I have no reason not to just because other developers do things differently (I'd say it's naive to assume they all have the same exact habits too).
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on August 25, 2006, 05:03:12 PM
Sorry, I forgot to check my logbook of official Brawl info to see that the 40 characters thing never came from Sakurai. Whatever. The point is that a developer can "go on record" about anything. More often than not, they're just answering questions in interviews and end up contradicting themselves, albeit not on purpose. It's not that I don't trust Sakurai. I prefer to trust the development process which has its share of ups and downs. Sometimes it's rushed, sometimes the hardware isn't adequate to implement certain features, sometimes it's decided that certain features absolutely have to make it in even if it means a delay. It's not about habits, because it's not a habit to run into problems or forks in the road during development. I doubt Silicon Knights planned for Eternal Darkness to be moved to GCN or Retro having their asses handed to them by Miyamoto and told to change the entire direction of Metroid Prime or Blizzard realizing that Starcaft: Ghost just wasn't good enough to be released after 34681976 years in development under just as many teams. Basically, sh-t happens so I choose to take everything a developer says with a grain of salt. Sometimes they're lying through their teeth, other times something unexpected happens.

And last time I checked, Iwata is the president of NCL. It's his job, among many other things, to know the status every 1st and 2nd party game in development or planned to go into development. I also find it hard to believe that Nintendo wouldn't make another Smash without Sakurai. They'd probably prefer not to, but this is the same Nintendo that allowed Capcom to develop a Zelda title and let them include a kangaroo with boxing gloves that Link rides in. At some point (maybe not anytime soon), Smash will be in someone elses hands.    
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 25, 2006, 06:38:49 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
Sorry, I forgot to check my logbook of official Brawl info to see that the 40 characters thing never came from Sakurai. Whatever.


-_-' Again, I mentioned it in the very same post that prompted you to go off on this tirade. It's not like this was brought up on page 24 or something in this topic.

Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
The point is that a developer can "go on record" about anything. More often than not, they're just answering questions in interviews and end up contradicting themselves, albeit not on purpose.


Point taken and, point being? Yes things change from what a developer will tell us, either due to a deadline or simply being caught off gaurd during an interview and wording a response wrong. The quotes in question come off of the official site, though, so we can assume that Sakurai had plenty of time to formulate his response. Things could always change during the process. But, because of that, we are supposed to ignore everything the developer is telling us? If so, what would be the point of previews at all, since it's all subject to change anyway?

Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
And last time I checked, Iwata is the president of NCL. It's his job, among many other things, to know the status every 1st and 2nd party game in development or planned to go into development. I also find it hard to believe that Nintendo wouldn't make another Smash without Sakurai. They'd probably prefer not to, but this is the same Nintendo that allowed Capcom to develop a Zelda title and let them include a kangaroo with boxing gloves that Link rides in. At some point (maybe not anytime soon), Smash will be in someone elses hands.


At this stage I'm just going to say it: you have never read the documentation on the Smash Bros site, have you? If so, why are you even debating about its probability if you aren't even familiar with the information yourself and its sources? The exact point that you brought up there was addressed on the site, and Nintendo was going to make another Smash Bros game without him if they had to (this comes from Iwata):

"We'd work to make the game independently, but we might be told to simply focus on making the game Wi-Fi compatible, and may be instructed not to lay a hand on any of the 26 characters in the current game..."
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on August 26, 2006, 07:17:04 AM
I've read everything there has been to read about Brawl. The problem here is that you're completely missing the point or perhaps just flat out ignoring it. You keep bring up how so and so said this or the official site states that and my reply is still the same: So what? What is told to the public isn't always the whole truth. You mean to tell me that you actually believe Nintendo would never make a true sequel to Smash if Sakurai wasn't involved just because Sakurai said it on the official site. That's just plain gullibility. Smash Bros. is arguably Nintendo's most popular and successful multiplayer game and they whore their characters out like no other.

This all sprang from you telling another forum member that having more than the 2-3 3rd party characters that Sakurai has stated is "not likely." Am I correct? All I'm saying is that it's just as likely that there very well could be more than 2-3 present. The feedback on Snake's appearance in Brawl has been overwhelming. Over 3 months later, Smash fans around the world are still talking about who they want in the game, 1st and 3rd party. There are dozens of characters to choose from.

Anyway, I find it odd that 3rd party additions must have appeared on a Nintendo console, but Snake's character model is based on Metal Gear Solid 2's and Gamecube is the only platfrom not to get that game in some form. I always preferred sans-mullet Snake from The Twin Snakes. I'm crossing my fingers for an alternate costume.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on August 26, 2006, 12:59:01 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
You keep bring up how so and so said this or the official site states that and my reply is still the same: So what? What is told to the public isn't always the whole truth.


*sigh* So your whole point is that Sakurai isn't trust worthy, in your opinion. Whatever. Personally I will take him at his word over fan musings, but if you think otherwise, more power to you.

Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
You mean to tell me that you actually believe Nintendo would never make a true sequel to Smash if Sakurai wasn't involved just because Sakurai said it on the official site. That's just plain gullibility. Smash Bros. is arguably Nintendo's most popular and successful multiplayer game and they whore their characters out like no other.


Right, because it's not like there have ever been different versions of other games with the same rosters that have went through Nintendo, like some of the Mario Karts for example. I guess it's out of the question that Iwata might respect Sakurai too...

I'm sure if they made another one, the graphics would have been overhauled, modes changed, and the single player restructed (not counting the mentioned wi-fi addition). But perhaps Iwata felt that leaving the characters untouched without Sakurai's imput was important, hell he came from HAL so it's not a strange concept to assume they might have a good relationship with one another.

Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
This all sprang from you telling another forum member that having more than the 2-3 3rd party characters that Sakurai has stated is "not likely." Am I correct? All I'm saying is that it's just as likely that there very well could be more than 2-3 present. The feedback on Snake's appearance in Brawl has been overwhelming.


And Sakurai made that comment in hindsight of the reaction at E3. Maybe he was trying to cool down the volume of requests? Maybe he would rather the game still be mostly dedicated to Nintendo? Who is to say. I doubt he just threw out that figure without any thought behind it though, considering the reaction it would garnish.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on August 26, 2006, 01:43:17 PM
Do you have to be so narrowminded when you interpret my posts? My point is simply don't believe everything you read. I thought I was pretty clear. I never said Sakurai wasn't trust worthy.

Quote

I wrote:
It's not that I don't trust Sakurai. I prefer to trust the development process which has its share of ups and downs.


You can keep rubbing your biting sarcasm in my face and continue to call what I say "fan musings." At the same time, I could call what you say "blind fanboy ramblings." I don't deny that the 2-3 3rd party characters thing could be true, but I accept that the number Sakurai gave could, in fact, change. I choose to look at both sides of the coin and keep an open mind. I don't think either situation is any more likely. I just gave examples of why that number could change.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Caterkiller on August 26, 2006, 05:03:30 PM
There there, shut up guys... Your both wrong.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on August 26, 2006, 05:58:11 PM
Wow.. nearly two pages arguing about nothing.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on August 26, 2006, 06:43:38 PM
Such hostility.... now I remember why I hate everyone...

I hope Brawl is a more balanced game than Melee.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nephilim on August 26, 2006, 06:46:23 PM
you guys are forgetting brawl is a few companys working together, I doubt Sakurai will have a huge impact on stopping only 3 people, if konami and nintendo agree to 5 konami guys in it
Sakurai blog just stated that they have plans for 3 at the moment, but after snake was announced, im sure other companys got interested in there francises also in it

u guys are putting too much trust in a blog and a silly guestbook on his site
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mario on August 26, 2006, 07:39:39 PM
I'd like to thank Adrock for the confirmation that things can actually change, and that SSBB is still in development.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: WalkingTheCow on August 26, 2006, 08:31:48 PM
I wonder if "Guy with a hammer" will make it in. . . Probobly not if they don't think the game (Project H.A.M.M.E.R.) will be all that great. Still, I'm suprised the idea isn't thrown around more.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Blondy17 on August 27, 2006, 04:00:05 AM
I think the new characters are awesome.  THE NEW GAME LOOKS SOOO COOL!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 27, 2006, 07:46:13 AM
I hope Brawl is much more unbalanced than Melee.

Not only will that keep these whiners from playing online against me, but they'll just waste more of their time in here moping about how the game isn't to their exact specifications.

That simultaneously makes the game more fun for me and pisses them off.  Which is like a wonderful, sultry piece of chocolate only I get to enjoy.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on August 27, 2006, 08:57:45 AM
Remember kids, Jesus once said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Tell me you've never wished anything in any videogame was different, then shut up for being a hypocrite.

Melee was an awesome game, but it wasn't perfect. There I said it. Fanboys, burn me. I'm ready now.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 27, 2006, 09:03:37 AM
Oh, I never once passed myself off as never complaining about a game.

So that wouldn't make me a hypocrite.

However, failing to pick up on biting sarcasm and retorting with a direct insult?  

That's just plain golden.

Since we're on the subject, I hope Brawl is 20% faster than Melee.  I hope there is no option to play without items.  I hope wave dashing has been removed.  I hope the only new characters are Pokemon.  I hope online play is restricted to three stages, four characters (all of them Mario), and only 2 player 1v1 matches.  I hope the game can somehow detect if any movies of it are being recorded, and it explodes upon this realization.  I hope every stage is moving/scrolling, that Snake is a ripoff Captain Falcon, and that there's a tier for every character in the game, such that one character will always beat those under them, no matter how skilled anyone is.  That way, when we find out Fox is the best character, everyone is just in a rush to get him.  It thus follows that two Foxes in one match will simply end the game immediately, both crowned champions, and the game rewrites data on the disc itself to "game has been eternally beaten," forcing people to buy another copy of Brawl since they've already beaten that first copy they've bought.  I hope no one bitches about the game, cuz the game will bitch about itself.  Everyday you'll be able to boot up your Wii and it will have logged into a livejournal.ssbb.com, where it talks about how much no one likes it.  I hope this, too, will cause it too explode in a fit of digital suicide.  I hope the minigames revolved around how fast you can fully spin around a trophy, because when I say trophy, I imply singularity, as there only needs to be one trophy to get - Mr. Resetti in a bikini.  I hope the Sandbag is a playable character with 3 moves - stand, jump, and fall over.  I hope everyone gets equipped with a gun AND a morphing ability, and in some cases you can morph the gun as you are shooting it AND as you are morphing, which will cause earthquakes to break out in Pennsylvania and South Dakota, as well as various nations in South America.  I hope there are no particle effects.  I hope the FPS cycles between 15 and 22 for dramatic effect.  I hope the game is capable of 14 man battles, but can only handle 4, even though it says explicitly on the label.

Yes.  All of that would be awesome.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on August 27, 2006, 09:40:35 AM
Strell, you are my new hero.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on August 27, 2006, 04:04:12 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Strell
Oh, I never once passed myself off as never complaining about a game.

So that wouldn't make me a hypocrite.

However, failing to pick up on biting sarcasm and retorting with a direct insult?  

That's just plain golden.

Since we're on the subject, I hope Brawl is 20% faster than Melee.  I hope there is no option to play without items.  I hope wave dashing has been removed.  I hope the only new characters are Pokemon.  I hope online play is restricted to three stages, four characters (all of them Mario), and only 2 player 1v1 matches.  I hope the game can somehow detect if any movies of it are being recorded, and it explodes upon this realization.  I hope every stage is moving/scrolling, that Snake is a ripoff Captain Falcon, and that there's a tier for every character in the game, such that one character will always beat those under them, no matter how skilled anyone is.  That way, when we find out Fox is the best character, everyone is just in a rush to get him.  It thus follows that two Foxes in one match will simply end the game immediately, both crowned champions, and the game rewrites data on the disc itself to "game has been eternally beaten," forcing people to buy another copy of Brawl since they've already beaten that first copy they've bought.  I hope no one bitches about the game, cuz the game will bitch about itself.  Everyday you'll be able to boot up your Wii and it will have logged into a livejournal.ssbb.com, where it talks about how much no one likes it.  I hope this, too, will cause it too explode in a fit of digital suicide.  I hope the minigames revolved around how fast you can fully spin around a trophy, because when I say trophy, I imply singularity, as there only needs to be one trophy to get - Mr. Resetti in a bikini.  I hope the Sandbag is a playable character with 3 moves - stand, jump, and fall over.  I hope everyone gets equipped with a gun AND a morphing ability, and in some cases you can morph the gun as you are shooting it AND as you are morphing, which will cause earthquakes to break out in Pennsylvania and South Dakota, as well as various nations in South America.  I hope there are no particle effects.  I hope the FPS cycles between 15 and 22 for dramatic effect.  I hope the game is capable of 14 man battles, but can only handle 4, even though it says explicitly on the label.

Yes.  All of that would be awesome.


TLDR
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on August 27, 2006, 04:19:35 PM
Quote

However, failing to pick up on biting sarcasm and retorting with a direct insult?

That's just plain golden.

I quoted Jesus.... and you say I failed to pick up on sarcasm......
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 27, 2006, 05:02:48 PM
Hey guys, sorry I bring this up again, but has anything surfaced regarding the Ubisoft characters being SSB Brawl rumor that was posted way back in June?

The reason I suddenly bring this up is because one of my friends is deadset on his beliefs that due to how close Ubi and Nintendo are right now we will see Rayman or any of the rumored characters in the game.

I believe that just because Ubi and Nintendo are working very closely on the Wii games it doesn't mean that an Ubi character WILL be in the game. That rumor was brought up like once bu just one newsource, then never brought up again, leading me to believe the rumors were false to begin with.

And S_B, what does "TLDR" means?

-pap64
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on August 27, 2006, 05:43:06 PM
Rumors are rumors. That's really all you need to know. Chances are you won't get a straight answer until the game is released.

All I know is if Sonic isn't in Brawl, there will be riots all over the world. Personally, I want Cloud and a Belmont, preferably Trevor. He just looked the coolest in Curse of Darkness. Ayami Kojima's Simon is also quite badass.

TLDR = Too Long Didn't Read
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 28, 2006, 01:47:17 AM
Nintendo really opened a can of worms when they let Snake in the game.  He is a 3rd party character that nobody expected in the game, and didn't really fit.  That opened the door for more speculation.  If Nintendo just said Sonic was in the game, speculation of other 3rd party characters would be less.

Now Nintendo fans all have their personal desired 3rd party characters they want in the game, and it isn't going to happen, more most likely won't.

I want to see Bomberman and Mega Man.  I think one of those character has a really great chance of being in the game, possibly even both of them...then again it is also likely none of them are in the game and I will be disappointed.  Oh well.  Such is hype and the internet.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on August 28, 2006, 02:16:19 AM
The way my friend sees it that by letting Snake in the game, plus Nintendo confirming other third party characters to be in the final build, and seeing how close Nintendo and Ubi are (working together on Red steel and making Rayman 4 a Wii exclusive), the possibilities of any Ubi character being in the game are high, and when he puts it that way, it makes perfect sense.

However, just because that's the logic he sees it doesn't mean that Nintendo or Ubi will see it that way. Heck for all we know Nintendo may have offered the opportunity to anyone at Ubi and they declined it because they didn't agree with it.

Basically what I've been telling him is to not get his hopes up and make allusions about it because all we had were rumors that were rather obscure, was mentioned once and never brought up again. In fact, I think Sonic, Pac-Man, Bomberman, Megaman and the Castlevania characters have a higher chance of appearing in the game than any Ubi character.

-pap64
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: couchmonkey on August 28, 2006, 04:10:01 AM
I don't really care which third party characters are in the game, although I would be disappointed if Snake was the only one.  I do think Sonic makes a lot of sense, but I wouldn't be sad if he wasn't in there.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 28, 2006, 05:57:46 AM
Obviously it is Nintendo's final say in who is in the game.  But I don't think Nintendo is going up to 3rd parties asking for their characters.  Instead, if 3rd parties come to them then Nintendo considers it.

That is why I am worried about Sonic being in the game, or not being in the game.  Miyamoto in an interview stated that Sega has not come to Nintendo asking for Sonic to be in the game this time around.  If Miyamoto is speaking the truth then Sega may have desired Sonic in Melee, but now aren't seeking his inclusion in Brawl.  Either that or Miyamoto lied so to keep the surprise.

This is a reason I actually believe Bomberman has a great chance.  Nintendo has worked with Hudson Soft on several projects, and Hudson has a focus on multiplayer games...to see Bomberman have a role in Brawl would be so true to Hudson's roots.  Also I think a Bomberman inspired level for Brawl could be pretty fun.  

I could also see Nintendo making deals with 3rd parties to include the character in Brawl to increase that characters popularity if the 3rd party brings games over to the Wii.

We shall see what happens.  I still say the game will have 5 third party characters.  That number isn't excessive, but is large enough to include the important characters everyone wants to play as.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 28, 2006, 06:08:50 AM
You know what?

F*ck Sega.

They've been total idiots ever since their precious DC died.

So nutz to Sonic in Brawl.  It'll probably happen, but if Sega is too proud to let a former competitor help them out (which they seem to be, considering all their stupid decisions regarding development last gen), then they don't need to show up in Brawl.

End of discussion re: Sega re: SSBB.

Nintendo knows this is a huge franchise.  I'll bet they've gotten requests from just about every major Japanese dev asking for their characters to be in SSBB.  It's a gauranteed 2-3 million seller in Japan alone, and at least that in America.  You can't buy that kind of exposure for your characters.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 28, 2006, 08:16:25 AM
Strell:  You know you are absolutely right.  The Publicity alone that your character is in Brawl would be huge.  

The problem is, as a newcomer if Nintendo keeps it a secret then your characters exposure won't happen until much later.  It would still be huge but won't happen as quickly, as say it did for Snake.

But, I think Snakes reveal was done to create huge buzz for the game, and to let 3rd parties know that Nintendo will let 3rd party characters in this time.  It was note to developers to ask for a character inclusion so that Nintendo can hopefully hand pick the characters they want in the game.  

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: JonLeung on August 28, 2006, 09:30:56 AM
It's been said that the problem with developing for a Nintendo console is that you'll be up against Nintendo games.  Third parties don't like that.

However, to have a presence in the very epitome of a Nintendo game, now that's guaranteed to stir up some interest, and a third-party's best bet in promoting them.

But it's also the dilemma...there are many people who would want SSB:B to be the definite, epitomous, absolute Nintendo game, to include all things Nintendo...and so even if third-party characters were included, some people would look down on them simply because "they don't belong" or "shouldn't belong".

(Then again, my brother refuses to play as or even against DK...and DK's origin is tied with the beginning of modern-day (as in 1980s onward) Nintendo.)

Super Smash Bros. really does cater to the fans, so certain characters may or may not be irksome simply by their absence or presence.  Even if Nintendo does have free pickings from a number of possible choices, Nintendo should pick very carefully...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Artimus on August 28, 2006, 09:36:27 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: JonLeung
(Then again, my brother refuses to play as or even against DK...and DK's origin is tied with the beginning of modern-day (as in 1980s onward) Nintendo.)


Why does he do that?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 28, 2006, 10:24:01 AM
Jon:  It is an interesting dilema.  And I think the answer to that is simple.  You can't just put any 3rd party character in...which might upset some 3rd party developers that are wanting to promote their modern characters.

Instead, you have to choose 3rd party characters that people equate/remember playing on a Nintendo system.  (NES or SNES perferable)

That is why Mega Man is a desired character.  People remember him fondly on their 8-bit Nintendo and less on any other system after that.  Bomberman had his start on the Nintendo, and continued success throughout every Nintendo system.  You don't think Bomberman and think Sega, Playstation, Microsoft or even Hudson Soft...you think Nintendo, or I do.  Simon Belmont and Castlevania is another example.  To this day even after all the sequels of Castlevania, most people recall the 8-bit games first, or the Gameboy Advanced games.  They don't think of the Sony games or the 3D version of the game even.

It is a very strange dilema and debate.  Should 3rd parties be involved and if so which.  Well Nintendo has the ultimate say, and they said YES, limited 3rd parties are important to the sequel.  So now the speculation and debate begins on who is worthy.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hocotate on August 28, 2006, 11:23:33 AM
I personally don't think Snake fits all to well in Brawl. I think most people think Sony when they think MGS.... However I am very glad he is in the game, he will cause many people who would normally hesitate before playing Brawl to rush out and buy it.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on August 28, 2006, 11:43:03 AM
Quote

Spak-Spang wrote:
That is why I am worried about Sonic being in the game, or not being in the game. Miyamoto in an interview stated that Sega has not come to Nintendo asking for Sonic to be in the game this time around. If Miyamoto is speaking the truth then Sega may have desired Sonic in Melee, but now aren't seeking his inclusion in Brawl. Either that or Miyamoto lied so to keep the surprise.

If you really want to make your head spin, what if Nintendo went to Sega about Sonic appearing in the game. Technically, Miyamoto would've been telling the truth the whole time.........

Anyway, when you think about it, none of the characters really fit in. Samus shooting Kirby with a missle doesn't make sense. Before Brawl, the only thing they had in common was that they were Nintendo characters. With the addition of Snake, it's just a bunch of videogame characters pitted against eachother for no other reason than it just so cool to pick character A and have them fight character B.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Khushrenada on August 28, 2006, 12:47:25 PM
Actually, you're wrong. Kirby has helped Samus before. In Kirby's Dreamland 3, a wonderful but less remembered Kirby game released at the end of the SNES's life, Samus makes an appearence. It's in the 5th or 6th level, whichever the ice level is, in about the 2nd or 3rd stage, Samus makes an appearence. During that level, Kirby must get the ice ability and freeze metroids, then he meets with Samus again and gets a heart star. So, they have a bit of history. And let's not forget that in Mario RPG: Legend of the Seven Stars, an even greater SNES game, Samus makes a brief cameo appearence. After Princess Peach joins your party, when you go to her bedroom in her castle, Samus is sleeping in the bed and talks about defeating Mother Brain.

Nintendo, it's all connected.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Strell on August 28, 2006, 05:00:48 PM
Smash Bros is like Nintendo's own tribute to itself and its history.

Just watching the demo movies of the characters interacting with each other proves that.

Being in Brawl is like being in a small slice of digital immortal history.  Smash Bros is going to go down as one of the great franchises in Nintendo's ring, if not the entirety of gaming.  

Any company would kill to be in a position to solidify themselves within that monument.  

This is why I am hoping, as I have mentioned several times in the past, for a Nintendo vs World game, where we would see all those zany characters.

In fact, I'd absolutely love to see it include primarily Sony and MS characters.  That'll never happen, as Sony and MS would call for the game to be a cross-platform endeavor.

But who seriously doesn't want to see Samus kick Master Chief's ass?

At any rate, back to the subject - Smash Bros is about the history of Nintendo, in a hyper fun violent shade.  Getting your foot in that massive door is a pathway to greatness.  I'd wager Nintendo has had dozens, if not hundreds of requests, ranging from the Prince of All Cosmos to Ryu to Dante to Cid.  

Let's just be thankful Nintendo is being choosy enough to warrent such secrecy and devotion to their fans.  You know there's some crazed dude in marketing trying to tell everyone that "Omfg, Yugi-oh would be a perfect addition."
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Neodymium on August 28, 2006, 05:59:19 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Strell
You know what?

F*ck Sega.

They've been total idiots ever since their precious DC died.

So nutz to Sonic in Brawl.  It'll probably happen, but if Sega is too proud to let a former competitor help them out (which they seem to be, considering all their stupid decisions regarding development last gen), then they don't need to show up in Brawl.

End of discussion re: Sega re: SSBB.

Nintendo knows this is a huge franchise.  I'll bet they've gotten requests from just about every major Japanese dev asking for their characters to be in SSBB.  It's a gauranteed 2-3 million seller in Japan alone, and at least that in America.  You can't buy that kind of exposure for your characters.


I agree with that, like mad. Sega isn't the same company that gave us the amazing experiences that were Saturn and Dreamcast. Sega's second-rate, generic, and no longer very.. well, good.

With all this Turbografx-16 stuff going on, I'd love to see someone iconic of that console make it over. Unfortunately, I don't see Bonk having a good enough moveset (perhaps if he were fast but also powerful to make up for his short range), and Bomberman would be cool although it has become multiconsole.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: TMW on August 28, 2006, 06:34:55 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Neodymium
Quote

Originally posted by: Strell
You know what?

F*ck Sega.

They've been total idiots ever since their precious DC died.

So nutz to Sonic in Brawl.  It'll probably happen, but if Sega is too proud to let a former competitor help them out (which they seem to be, considering all their stupid decisions regarding development last gen), then they don't need to show up in Brawl.

End of discussion re: Sega re: SSBB.

Nintendo knows this is a huge franchise.  I'll bet they've gotten requests from just about every major Japanese dev asking for their characters to be in SSBB.  It's a gauranteed 2-3 million seller in Japan alone, and at least that in America.  You can't buy that kind of exposure for your characters.


I agree with that, like mad. Sega isn't the same company that gave us the amazing experiences that were Saturn and Dreamcast. Sega's second-rate, generic, and no longer very.. well, good.


Thats because, for all intents and purposes, its not the same Sega.  Sammy bought them out so they could whore Sega characters on their pachinko machines, and Yuji Naka quit Sonic Team, so there are a few distinct reasons Sega has gone from Great to Bad.  

For all of Sega's faults and issues, Sonic is still a very popular franchise (just with entirely new gamers, i.e. I personally know of no old school Sonic fan who claims to enjoy the newer Sonic games).  By putting Sonic in you're going to attract both crowds, however.  

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 06, 2006, 10:47:09 PM
Wise from the Grave.

re-reading many of these posts  made me realize that Nintendo fanboy-ism is almost a religion, and to many Smash Brothers is one of the saints of gaming...which got me thinking what are the Nintendo gods saints?

Legend of Zelda (series)
Super Mario RPG (SNES game)
Mario (series)
Metroid (series)
Super Smash Brothers (series)
Super Nintendo System

honorable mentions but not quite there go to:
Pokemon
Mario Kart
F-Zero

Fallen Angel Award (or Lucifer Award) Goes to:
Rare


Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on December 06, 2006, 10:50:28 PM
Quote


Fallen Angel Award (or Lucifer Award) Goes to:
Rare



I give that to Square personally even though they where never first party.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ZeldaWarlord on December 06, 2006, 10:57:10 PM
Spak i totally disagree with your list.   Spend one week on a college campus and you will know who the true saints of gaming are.  I know so many people who play mario kart hard core and people who could care less that metroid ever existed.   i personally think that when metroid went 3D everything went downhill.   I think mario kart def owns metroid in the list of Saints.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 06, 2006, 11:24:41 PM
Zelda:  Perhaps I was too quick to put Metroid and Mario Kart in their places.

After all Mario Kart is the shining example of perfect Kart gaming in this world...but is Mario Kart too niche?  Probably not I dunno.

Metroid I believe deserves to be on there, because it is one of those games that has a good following, and is one of Nintendo's few mature-ish franchises.  And its quality in all of its forms have been consistently of higher quality than similar games.  

 
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ZeldaWarlord on December 06, 2006, 11:34:54 PM
I agree that every time metroid is made it is a complete game.  But isn't that what we should EXPECT from the makers of any video game.  I'm not saying that i don't like metroid, but in my opinion its become nothing wonderful fast.  I'm hoping that this newest installment will make me eat some massive crow, but sadly enough i doubt i will be wrong.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, SSBB

So I have taken my Wii around my college campus to three diferent locations for "Wii Partys" at this point, and i think i did a pretty good job of promoting Nintendo's newest system.   And now that I have the SSBB trailers on my Ipod i think it will make it much easier when people say... are there gonna be any good looking games for Wii?   What are your guys opinion on the new graphics... same, better, incredible?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nephilim on December 06, 2006, 11:53:39 PM
I dont think "Super Mario RPG" is treated godly by fanboys
Its more of a collectors item, much like "paper mario" for n64
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 07, 2006, 12:38:46 AM
I dunno.  Mention Nintendo and RPGs and you will get true Nintendo fanboys to comment about how Super Mario RPG is one of Squares best efforts.  Or comments, why can't paper Mario, or Mario and Luigi be more like Mario RPG...that was perfect.  It is a game that is blasphemy to defame in any way.  

Every Metroid game (save the first game on NES) I have throughly loved, and the experience is one that has more than satisfied me as a game.  Metroid series more than a complete game.  It is a well crafted game series.  You can't say that about very many franchises.

Now, I will admit the Retro games have been a little too hard on the final bosses...as I have been able to beat the games up until the end...and the games are not captivating enough to repeated die in an annoying battle to beat.


As for Smash Brothers.  I loved the first game as a huge party game with my friends.  The second game I loved as a single player experience, as my friends didn't enjoy the sequel as much.  I am hoping Brawl brings both together...and is packaged with a classical controller.  :^)

I have high hopes for the game, and I want it to be perfect.  I don't want the game until December 2007 and I want it polished and perfected...with working 4 player online play, and a deep single player adventure mode.  Finally, I want Bomber Man and Mega Man.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on December 07, 2006, 03:07:02 AM
I totally agree with Spak-Spang on Super Mario RPG. It was a good game, but personally, I thought Superstar Saga was better. Mallow and Geno have this ridiculous cult following. They weren't even that cool.......

Brawl needs a Belmont. Simon would be most likely, though Trevor and Richter were cooler. Ryu from Street Fighter would be awesome too even though translating his moves into the Smash control scheme would be weird (pressing B for a Hadoken instead of D, DF, F+Punch)
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: TEM on December 07, 2006, 03:19:13 AM
Traditional fighting game characters in a SSB game? I think this is a major no-no. Part of SSB's mystique is that it contains characters from games that span potentionally every game genre EXCEPT fighting. Anything to the contrary would lead me to believe that the SSB series is going to slowly morph into a normal fighting game, which is definitely a no-no.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on December 07, 2006, 03:34:42 AM
I have to agree.

SSB was intended as a spoof of games like Street Fighter which forced players to memorize ridiculous combos in order to have any chance of succeeding. If I wanted to spend my time memorizing sh*t, I would have been studying for tests instead of playing video games as a kid. I play games to have fun, not memorize more useless information.

But enough about Street Fighter. If we're going to see a Capcom character, it'll be Megaman, no question. Though, I admit Simon Belmont would then complete the trio from Captain N, with Icarus, Megaman and Belmont together at last...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 07, 2006, 07:33:03 AM
Well Megaman is the most deserving of all third party characters, since he's had the longest history with Nintendo with around 90% of all his games appearing on Nintendo systems.  And with the amount of Megaman games out there, that's ALOT.

But the thing that hurts him is these days, the classic Megaman series is pretty niche with only a small fanbase left over.  The only Megaman series that's popular these days is the EXE series, which I'm not a big fan of.  But chances are we wont be seeing any Megaman related character at all.

All signs so far are pointing to a Square-Enix character appearing in the game.  With the five Final Fantasy characters appear in Mario Hoops and the Mario + Dragon Quest party game, plus all the DS exclusives being annouced, Nintendo and Square-Enix have a very close relationship right now.  And with them already putting each others characters in there games it seems all but certion that a Square-Enix character will be in the next Smash Bros.

Mark my words, the third party line-up will be Snake, Sonic and Square-Enix character.  All that's left for us to debate now is which Square-Enix character will be in, remembering that the character has to have appeared on a Nintendo system.  

(Which gets rid of characters like Cloud and Tidus, THANK GOD)
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: TMW on December 07, 2006, 08:02:19 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Luigi DudeMark my words, the third party line-up will be Snake, Sonic and Square-Enix character.  All that's left for us to debate now is which Square-Enix character will be in, remembering that the character has to have appeared on a Nintendo system.


Garland.  His stage has earthquakes which, get this, knocks you down.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Crimm on December 07, 2006, 12:34:23 PM
I want to see my Miis instead of Polygon/Wireframe teams.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: LunaticFringe on December 07, 2006, 01:00:37 PM
what's with everyone's megaman fixation?

Nintendo should only allow 3rd PT characters from companies that stuck through them thick and thin.  Companies like SE and plenty of others should never be considered.  I would hope Nintendo would have more pride than that.  As for Snake, Konami gave GCN a bone with snake eater.  Nintendo is probably repaying them in some way with this.

In terms of characters:
I don't have many ideas that haven't already been thrown out there.

Maybe the Frog Boss from Super Mario II as a Bowser Clome.

Paratrooper/Koopa Troopa

Maybe Wolf Link with that Goblin on top of him (TP is still unopened lol -- Wii Spots pwns too much for drinking games)

Like I said I don't have many. I'm trying to think back to my NES days and I can't get the horrible mental images of Star Voyager out of my mind.


Anyways, I hope they make SSB:B A LOT closer to the original.  I am sure that I am in the extreme minority here, but I was very disappointed in Melee.  Everything they did was great, but the gameplay seemed off.  It was too fast and smashy (I know that sounds stupid).  The original seemed way more strategic like if you were playing chess.  Melee just seemed to require less skill because someone could always catch you with a c-stick smash. which.... takes no skill.


Anyways if their is online and Luigi has his own moves and isnt just a mario clone, my pants will be tight.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on December 07, 2006, 01:21:36 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: LunaticFringe
what's with everyone's megaman fixation?

Megaman's cool?


Quote

Originally posted by: LunaticFringe
Nintendo should only allow 3rd PT characters from companies that stuck through them thick and thin.  Companies like SE and plenty of others should never be considered.  I would hope Nintendo would have more pride than that.  As for Snake, Konami gave GCN a bone with snake eater.  Nintendo is probably repaying them in some way with this.

You mean Twin Snakes, a remake of an old game?  So Konami gets Snake in Brawl for throwing Nintendo a bone, but Capcom shouldn't get Megaman in Brawl even though the majority of Megaman games have been released on Nintendo platforms?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: TEM on December 07, 2006, 01:25:54 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: LunaticFringe
The original seemed way more strategic like if you were playing chess.  Melee just seemed to require less skill because someone could always catch you with a c-stick smash. which.... takes no skill.


Sounds like someone isn't very good at dodging or rolling.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on December 07, 2006, 01:43:18 PM
And has never seen videos of Ken.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 07, 2006, 02:58:59 PM
Unless you know how to wave-dash, shuffle, and do character specific moves, like shine spike, or shine combo, then you sir, have no right to criticize melee. It is superior to the original in every facet, and added so much more depth it wasn't even comparable.

Oh and that chess match in the original smash brothers usually ended like this. Shield's up, press A, grab and throw = dead at 80%. At least in melee they corrected throws being always leathal at 80%

And to who ever said SSBM was a spoof of street fighter where who had to memorize ridiculous combos. I hope you meant mortal combat, which is the only fighting game i know with preset combo that must be memorized, to where street fighter is non-linear in it's combo system, much like smash brothers is non-linear in its juggling system.

And despite what everyone here think, smash brothers is still a fighting game at its core, the dynamics are proved at competative play. Saying something like "adding fighting game characters to the game would be silly" is silly, because they would fit into the game perfectly.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on December 07, 2006, 06:49:34 PM
Quote

(Which gets rid of characters like Cloud and Tidus, THANK GOD)

Chain of Memories.........

If it's any Square-Enix character, it'll be Cloud. He's basically their mascot. I'd take Cloud over FFXII's Vaan any day....

Quote

Anyways if their is online and Luigi has his own moves and isnt just a mario clone, my pants will be tight.

Luigi in Melee is leagues better than Mario. I know what you're saying though. I still have my fingers crossed for Vacuum Luigi.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ryancoke on December 08, 2006, 12:30:18 AM
What about an underused superhero like batman? Most of the superhero games lately have been for Marvel comics characters (Xmen, Spiderman, etc.)
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Darkheart on December 08, 2006, 12:40:11 AM
You guys are now at the point where you are just naming random people to throw in the game, in light of this I suggest these two characters:


Bill Cosby from the Jello Pudding Nes game

Big Bird from all the learning Nes games. . .

Seriously though guys, none of this is gonna happen but as far as the Square Enix character goes, Im guessing it will be a generic job one, aka warrior, black mage yada yada.  It would be fun to see Sora from Kingdom Hearts in there, he already has a move set that would fit in with the game quite nicely.  If they did added him in then it would be known that Kingdom Hearts was coming to Wii.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 08, 2006, 12:58:56 AM
I have said this argument simply as this:

Smash Brothers Melee is the more strategic with advanced players, and in one on one battles.  The depth of Melee, and all the options is really equal to any other fighting game, despite its simplier play mechanics.

However,

Smash Brothers was easier to jump into, explore and enjoy.  The world of the original was simplier, and had gameplay that had advanced techniques, but mostly was simple fighting game that allowed beginners and advanced players to be on a more equal footing.  This meant a better party game, as everyone could enjoy the game and win.

Licensed characters from other things besides games would be a horrible idea.  First it would be difficult to get the license.  Second, it would cost money.

Mega Man is still popular and could still be done.  Just do a few different skins or models of the character.  1) Classic, 1) X, and 1)EXE.  Mega Man is still a hugely popular franchise and I think you are underestimating classic Mega Man's popularity.  When Capcom put Mega Man in their fighting games they used the classic model.  And IF a true sequel to the classic Mega Man game was made, I think it would sell INCREDIBLY well.

Bomberman is also the second most successful 3rd party character on a Nintendo system.  7-8 games on a Nintendo system...and Hudson has an awesome relationship with Nintendo.  

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nick DiMola on December 08, 2006, 01:10:12 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
I have said this argument simply as this:

Smash Brothers Melee is the more strategic with advanced players, and in one on one battles.  The depth of Melee, and all the options is really equal to any other fighting game, despite its simplier play mechanics.

However,

Smash Brothers was easier to jump into, explore and enjoy.  The world of the original was simplier, and had gameplay that had advanced techniques, but mostly was simple fighting game that allowed beginners and advanced players to be on a more equal footing.  This meant a better party game, as everyone could enjoy the game and win.


I agree with this 110%. I like the original as a party game with people who don't exploit the throw mechanic, but for me Melee is much better for the strategy it brings to the table. A move back to the original would seem awkward. I'm not really sure how they are going to handle this (regarding speed essentially and who they will cater to), either way someone will be pissed.

To relate this to another discussion on the boards about "it" games like GTA and Halo. If they make this like Melee, I highly doubt it will be the "it" game. It needs to be slowed down a little and there needs to be some handicapping measures so the advanced can play with the beginners in order for this game to attain the status of an "it" game.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 08, 2006, 04:03:40 AM
Mr. Jack:

A move back towards the original would be awkward, but I would argue also necessary.  I think a game like Smash Brothers, needs to as simple as possible to play, with hidden depth and layer to the combat.  Melee had depth in advanced techniques, very skilled targeted smash hits, and overall a complex block/attack/dodge mechanics.

I think moving forward with Brawl, you need to look towards means of keeping the depth, yet making it simpler...and better balanced for beginners and advanced players.  (And C-Stick Smashes is not the answer)

One of the most important elements would be to correct speed by bringing it down some, and balancing slower characters with moves that can be used to exploit speed players.  

I will not assume to think I have the expertise or the answers to create Brawl with the depth of Melee, and the balance and simplicity to become a perfect party game for all skill level players.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 08, 2006, 05:03:42 AM
Considering Melee outsold the original by a good margin, they wont be going backwards anytime soon.  Plus I dont see the how the orginal was better for people of all skill level, I beat my friends worse in the original then Melee.  I found Melee made the game alot better for people of all skill levels thanks to a much better defense system.  In the original if I was coming at them there was no escape, but in Melee they could actually dodge to find ways to get away from me, which sometimes allowed them to even set up counters.

I guess it depends on what everyones situation is like but for me, I saw Melee because of it's more advanced engine allowing people who sucked at the original, to become much better and allowed them to actually keep up with me and the other advanced players in the group.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Mikintosh on December 08, 2006, 05:20:52 AM
I agree, I go back to the original when I want a more old-school (like 99's old-school) feeling to the game (the same reason I sometimes play Street Fighter II instead of the Alpha or Marvel vs. Capcom games). But Melee simply has a more refined feel to its' controls, and I think that's part of the reason it's been such a hit on the tournament scene.

As for blocks and defense being complicated, I didn't get a hang of the stuff until I'd played the game for over a year, and I was still beating people without using the C-stick. So it's not really a huge impediment.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ZeldaWarlord on December 08, 2006, 09:07:49 AM
As much as i absolutely love the idea of having a pick up and play game like original smash, i do think that this game is going to be more complex and strategic than the latest installment... i think nintendo already has the right idea with making pick up and play games like Warioware available, and now should focus on a much more hardcore game and bring us Super Smash... I think most of us would really appreciate a hardcore game to play on our Wiis following a rather hardcoreless opening (excluding Zelda)

And after all the years of people still playing games like Marvel vs Capcom with megaman, i think it would be amazing to have a new installment

Speaking of Marvel vs Capcom, did anyone notice what looked like combo moves/cutscene moves in one of the trailers... e.g. the Link Triforce thing and Mario's Giant Fire Wave...  have they described the actual function of moves like these, or are we led to believe they are finishing moves, combo moves, or some kind of item based attacks?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Bill Aurion on December 08, 2006, 09:10:57 AM
They are item-based attacks...(The item is a glowing SSB symbol...)

That said, I sincerely doubt the game will be any more complex than Melee is...It just can't get any more complex without completely destroying what SSB is...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 08, 2006, 09:58:01 AM
I highly disagree, the game can still get more complex.

If you watch the latest trailer for brawl where fox appears at the end, you can clearly see a wave-dash. Just like L-canceling with the original, the creators have taken the wave-dash glitch and appropriately balanced it, and hopefully made it more accesable (timing wise) for all player now. They most likely improved the input for fast falling (at least i hope you don't need to double tap down anymore). There is alot more they can do with the game.

As for those "CUT SCENE ATTACKS" like mario's gaint fireballs, and link's 50 slashes, or kirby's boiling pot. Those are item based attacks, however, they are another step in pulling melee closer to a conventional but yet unconventional 2D fighter, as they arguablly resemble individual character supers. Conventional in the sense that they are supers, unconventional in the fac tthat there is no super meter dervided for them. See, theres tons more room for innovation and depth in the game still. Just wait for a tag in mode, or tag supers and such, it will all come.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: zakkiel on December 08, 2006, 10:57:39 AM
On the day that happens, I will burn Nintendo to the ground. Everything that is good in Smash comes from its simplicity. It pared away the garbage that infests 2-D fighters to create the most compelling multiplayer gameplay formula ever devised in a video game. I would rather see the series end than see it add that crap in. Fortunately, I doubt Nintendo will alter the core gameplay much. They've already tacitly admitted that they want to go back to something more like the original than Melee.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 08, 2006, 11:02:33 AM
yes, but then why would there be wave-dashing in the lastest video?

and you can have your simplicity, no one is forcing the high level play onto you. That is what makes smash great.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hotdiggedydemon on December 08, 2006, 12:54:55 PM
My pics:

Viewtiful Joe
Banjo Kazooie
Earthworm Jim
Bomberman
Toad
Skull kid (wearing Majoras Mask)
Sonic
Tails (a slower clone version of sonic)
Captain Olimar

Sonics down B move would obviously be that spindash they added in Sonic 2... and since Sonic 2 and Smash bros are both sidescrollers it would translate PERFECTLY

AND IF WINDWAKER LINK IS NOT IN THERE I SWEAR I KILL EVERYONE AT NINTENDER. his up B would be like Peaches up B (the umbrella) but instead, with the Deku leaf. HE TOTALLY FLOATS WITH IT
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on December 08, 2006, 02:32:22 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: ZeldaWarlord
As much as i absolutely love the idea of having a pick up and play game like original smash, i do think that this game is going to be more complex and strategic than the latest installment... i think nintendo already has the right idea with making pick up and play games like Warioware available, and now should focus on a much more hardcore game and bring us Super Smash... I think most of us would really appreciate a hardcore game to play on our Wiis following a rather hardcoreless opening (excluding Zelda)

I'd like some hardcore games as much as the next gamer, but the reason I actually like SSB is because it is so much easier to pick up and play than conventional fighters.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on December 08, 2006, 02:48:44 PM
Super Smash Bros. was easier to pick up and play, but Melee was just a better game. The original was basically a beat-em-up while Melee required strategy.

As Amodaus1 suggested, Melee allows for simplicity; it simply has more depth than its predecessor. It succeeded in being easy to play and difficult to master.  It's a delicate balance. Smash is one of those series that needs some level of complexity. If it's too simple, why bother?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on December 08, 2006, 02:54:08 PM
Melee was inferior because they wrecked Link's boomerang.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ZeldaWarlord on December 08, 2006, 03:27:05 PM
Okay, saying that melee was inferior for any reason like this weapon sucked, or its too fast, or i couldn't beat my best friend anymore is just ignorant... its a totally different game

If i were to complain that Mario doesn't jump like he does in Mario64 so SuperSmashOriginal Sucks then all of you would call me a dumbass and ignore anything i say...

complexity doesn't ruin a fighting game

overcomplexity does

I personally trust Nintendo to know that giving each person 30 special attacks isn't what the games need, even though some kids might say that would be awesome.  

Nintendo is interested in MAKING a great game just as much as we are interested in PLAYING one.   I guess thats what i mean when i said i hoped it was more complex.   Truthfully a decent storyline would be fantastic.   But let me tell you, i can garuntee if you want it to be just like Original or just like Melee you WILL be sorely dissapointed.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on December 08, 2006, 04:33:21 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: ZeldaWarlord
If i were to complain that Mario doesn't jump like he does in Mario64 so SuperSmashOriginal Sucks then all of you would call me a dumbass and ignore anything i say...

1: That's not really analogous to what I said.
2: I was kidding anyway (though they did wreck Link's boomerang ;b).
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Madcat221 on December 08, 2006, 11:05:07 PM
As long as they have Zelda and her ridiculously overpowered attacks, I'll be set.  Nothing's more satisfying than going "OMG OMG U GOT BEATED BY A GUUUUUURL" to my buds after the sparkley magic sends 'em flying.

As for the "spectacular special moves", it was stated before that it's an item-based attack, acquired by picking up a flaming Smash Bros icon, from what was gathered from the vid.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: zakkiel on December 09, 2006, 02:03:59 AM
Quote

Super Smash Bros. was easier to pick up and play, but Melee was just a better game. The original was basically a beat-em-up while Melee required strategy.
Now that's what I call ignorant.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ZeldaWarlord on December 09, 2006, 03:32:29 AM
PS. Smoke39 i wasn't saying that you were ignorant, you just happened to be a post before me, there are TONS of people that have said basically the same thing, and i knew you were joking cause the boomerang is pretty insignificant

and zakkiel, if you are going to call me ignorant try backing it up with um.... something, anything.... did you see how long my posts are... random flaming is what i call ignorant, so try using the keyboard a little next time to convey some of those things kept in your brain instead of just blabbing what you think with no support.  

I can see where Smash Original took a lot of strategy, believe me i get my butt handed to me every day by the guys across the hall, but the depth of Melee made it MORE strategic... now please call me ignorant again, cause i enjoy seeing people get upset when i make fun of their favorite games and they have no reason to disagree other than that it IS their favorite and its the best game EVA....
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 09, 2006, 05:10:44 AM
I don't think the original is remotely comparable to a beat-em-up.  If you say that then you have to say Melee is a Beat-em-up too.  Melee may have added strategy and technique...but it is basically the same formula and same game as the original.  Neither are beat-em-ups.

I may be the odd ball out.  But I actually preferred the fact that the original had very few actual combos or complex moves to learn.  I liked the fact that is was simply jumping around trying to knock your friends off a single level with almost everyone having equal footing.  I liked the power of the throws, though I would agree they were too powerful, Melee made them too weak though.  I like the idea of a game based with a strong throwing mechanic.

What I liked about Melee.  A more robust dodge and counter strike system.  But this system also wasn't perfect because slower characters were screwed by these techniques and their own dodge and counter strike was not nearly quick enough.  I loved the additional types of throws, but felt in the end, the nerfing they did to the throws counter acted their usefulness too much.  

What I love best about Melee was the huge amount of characters, and levels that lived and breathed the awesomeness of Nintendo completely throughout.  No other game I have played felt so wonderful for a Nintendo fan.

I think a blending of the two games is quite possible...and adding new elements can make the game feel original and different.  For example we already know air combos are going to be a bigger part of Brawl over the other two.  That adds complexity to the game fighting system, but doesn't have to be too difficult.  Whereas those Super Moves balance out the complexity by giving a powerful attack that makes it easier to get some KOs for beginners.

I also realize my opinion is based on the fact I personally had more fun with the original and got to share that game with my friends more.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Madcat221 on December 09, 2006, 06:05:18 AM
The nerfing of the throws in Melee was offset by the increase in the power of Smash moves.  It's called "Smash" Bros, afterall...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: zakkiel on December 09, 2006, 06:07:26 AM
Quote

and zakkiel, if you are going to call me ignorant try backing it up with um.... something, anything.... did you see how long my posts are...
Oh dear. I think someone just admitted to having multiple usernames on NWR.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: ZeldaWarlord on December 09, 2006, 06:30:33 AM
um, actually i just got my username like.... a week ago... im talking about the fact that any post i make is almost over 5 lines long... i really wish people didn't just constantly try to flame other people on ever forum ever...

Anyway, Spak-Spang i'm glad you ended that last post on the note you did.  Everything you said about the games was completely true, And i agree with everything you said.  And your last point is EXACTLY what i've been trying to get people to realize.  It is the same dynamic why there are people who say multiplayer in Halo 2 sucks cause they didn't spend the time to get used to it at all.  

I played Super Smash Original a ton, but then some kid stole mine about 2 years after it came out... so when Melee came out for GC i bought it and had no Original anymore to play on, now i have both again but i got used to Melee. I don't believe i ever said that either game was better than the other.  I just  said that one was more complex than the original.

Now you can yell at me that there were tons of different dynamics in Original and i just sucked at it, but that says nothing. Melee has more characters and more moves for each character, therefore its more complex.   I didn't say That Original was simple, i'm just stating the fact that Melee is more complex.

In my opinion a more complex game than Melee may be really cool, now it could be too complex and suck, but i think Nintendo can handle that balence.  My hope is that it will be more of the same smash brothers that we all love, with more characters, cooler looking moves, a decent story mode storyline wise, and maybe some sweet looking special attacks to make the game look all the more sweet.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: zakkiel on December 09, 2006, 07:28:34 AM
Quote

um, actually i just got my username like.... a week ago... im talking about the fact that any post i make is almost over 5 lines long... i really wish people didn't just constantly try to flame other people on ever forum ever...
 My previous post was the very first I've ever addressed to you. If someone writes a response that seems cryptically short, consider that there might be a reason for it before responding. And don't complain about a post flaming you when it quotes a completely different person.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 09, 2006, 07:38:01 AM
Back to the original question. I want them to make bowser a bit better in the new version. I liked him very much in melee, his air grab is awsome(and unique to him) along with his up-B and f-air. I wish they made him a bit better over all, or make him EVEN HEAVIER.

Anyone else dissapointed that snake is in the game?


And for complexity: Well its like i said before, the complexity will be there i'm sure, it's up to you individually to seek it out. No one willl force it onto you, and thats why Smash Brothers is great, it pleases everyone  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on December 09, 2006, 08:32:35 AM
Zelda Warlord, Zakkiel was calling me ignorant, not you.

In any case, I don't know how my opinions make me ignorant. I accept that other people, here being Spak-Spang, may like the original more. I disagree because I think Melee allows for more strategy which is one of the reasons I think Melee is a better game. I didn't mean that the original offered absolutely no strategy, just that Melee offered significantly more.

Anyway...

1. Link's boomerang was ruined. It's too weak in Melee.
2. I don't mind Snake. I'm just curious why they chose Sons of Liberty Snake. Gamecube was the only console not to get MGS2 in some form. I guess I just liked the Twin Snakes design (sans mullet) more.    
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Madcat221 on December 09, 2006, 09:02:17 AM
Re: Link's Boomerang:

The nerfing of his boomerang was more than made up for by the increase in power of his smash attack (he gets TWO!), and the hit power bonus to his upwards/downwards aerial attacks when timed right.  Link is the quintessential brawler; what he lacks in special B-button attacks he more than makes up for in A-button attacks.  He's heavy enough to endure hard blows, yet nimble enough to evade them.  Plus, there aren't many attacks that can get you un-surrounded quite like Link's spin attack.

Forget the boomerang; Link has a FREAKIN' SWORD while most of the others just have their fists.

Another great thing about Link is that you can opt for a smaller, far more nimble kid-sized version with very little re-training when the gametype demands it.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: zakkiel on December 09, 2006, 09:17:43 AM
Quote

In any case, I don't know how my opinions make me ignorant.
They make you ignorant of the incredible depth SSB had to offer. I don't know what it means to say a game has "more strategy," but I do know what it means to say a game is deep: how much difference in skill level is possible. SSB offered a degree of skill differentiation I have never seen equaled in another game. I truly believe there is no limit to how good you can get at that game. And yet it is as simple to pick up and play as you can make a fighting game. SSBM has more stuff and more speed. Contrary to popular belief, this is not the same as depth.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 09, 2006, 09:27:41 AM
my friend you are dead wrong

melee took what was broken in the original and fixed it. Then they added new stuff, some of which was broken. But overall there is MUCH more depth to melee. The very fact that you can AIR DODGE and thus make edge gaurding harder is proof of this depth. Wave-dashing, which is the offensive/defensive manuveering of melee, cannot even be produced in the original. Fast falling doesn't exist in the original, so shuffling doesn't either. The addition of a new special move for all character, and addition of charged attack, an overall addition of lag time spikes and lag time meteor air attacks which requires MORE SKILL and TIMING to land than simply cordinating the button combination. Theres more that i could go into, like the powered down throws that make you work for the kill, or set up juggles and combos, or the reflecting by power shielding, OR the ABILITY TO GRAB ITEMS MID AIR, or the ability to hook-shot onto ledges. MELEE offers MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more than the original, more then just speed and characters, it offers way more depth.

Melee can be classified as a 2D fighter by the hardcore. The same cannot be said about the original. This may be the reason why you like it, and thats ok, but the fighting game community is pretty dead set on this agreement, and they love melee for its depth. You should visit smashboards.com to see some real depth and download some videos, esspecially the japanese fox on fox or falco videos, as they are the top tier characters of melee.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on December 09, 2006, 10:31:21 AM
Madcat, I wasn't saying that Link was a less powerful character because of what they did to his boomerang.  The point is that in SSB it was fun doing tricks with his boomerang, and they took that aspect of his character away in melee.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hocotate on December 09, 2006, 03:30:56 PM
I enjoy both SSB and Melee, I like how they are different. Brawl can be more like either of them and I will be happy, of course if its more new than similar thats even better!

Quote

but the fighting game community is pretty dead set on this agreement, and they love melee for its depth.


From what I'm seeing in the fighting game community, Melee is not very accepted. SFIII, MVC2, KOF, GG, maybe some MOW, or CVS2, but never (or rarely I should say) is smash bros played competitively within fighting game circles or communities. It not being in the arcade = them not caring. Do some play it? of course, but from what I have seen the majority in this niche dislike the game.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 09, 2006, 04:00:07 PM
Yeah, the hardcore fighting crowd is probobly the only group of gamers I've seen that really hate Smash Bros, both the original and Melee.  Now I've seen a few people that dislike it but it seems like the fighting fans have a deep hatred for the series.

I think it comes down to this sense of elitism where because they know how to do all these 30 button moves to create big 1000 hit combos, they view Smash Bros as a joke because of it's simplistic system.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nephilim on December 09, 2006, 06:03:08 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Yeah, the hardcore fighting crowd is probobly the only group of gamers I've seen that really hate Smash Bros, both the original and Melee.  Now I've seen a few people that dislike it but it seems like the fighting fans have a deep hatred for the series.

I think it comes down to this sense of elitism where because they know how to do all these 30 button moves to create big 1000 hit combos, they view Smash Bros as a joke because of it's simplistic system.

I disagree totally

real reason is the community, heck i even cringe at gamefaqs and smashboards
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 09, 2006, 09:41:47 PM
I've been to several fighting boards and all I ever hear is them talking about how both Smash Bros are very shallow and how they'd rather play Street Fighter and King of Fighters anyday.

But I agree the online Smash community is pretty bad.  Oh God, the Smash Bros board on Gamefaqs and SmashBoards hurt my head just reading the topic titles.  I mean I've seen stupidity, but those places take it to a whole new level.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 09, 2006, 11:21:41 PM
Acttually, The evolution fighting game tournament for 2005 tried to get Smash brother in its roster, as it was the first year they would be using consoles for their tournament (because sometimes the acrade machines would break down, or the joy sticks would break off and maitenence took like 3 - 4 hours). Anyway, Nintendo was approached and declined to have smash brothers put into the tournament, so they did not put the game within the tournament. Despite what you may think, many in the hardcore crowd wanted smash brothers in that tournament. ALSO despite what you think, most hardcore fighting gamers hate KING OF FIGHTERS, they see no depth to the game. It's mainly about street fighter III third strike, and classic street fighter II, as well as some 3D fighters like virtua fighter, and they play MvC CvS(although no one really uses the SNK character as the capcom characters over shadow them, capcom played favorite when they developed the game) and GG.

Also smash boards is not bad, esspecially for people looking to get into the deeper aspects of melee. Once you learn enough from the boards, you obviosly need to upgrade to competitive play and videos of skilled players to improve even more.

EDIT: I wanna edit this, because it makes me sound like i'm saying you guys are wrong. Let me correct myself. The fighting game community does not really accept smash brothers. You guys are right, they generally hate it. However, within the community there are a select few of us who do enjoy the game (i shouldn't say few, theres alot acctually, but i'm talking about overall). And within this group of us who like the game, we find melee to be superior in almost every facet.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: zakkiel on December 10, 2006, 01:15:18 AM
Quote

But overall there is MUCH more depth to melee. The very fact that you can AIR DODGE and thus make edge gaurding harder is proof of this depth. Wave-dashing, which is the offensive/defensive manuveering of melee, cannot even be produced in the original. Fast falling doesn't exist in the original, so shuffling doesn't either. The addition of a new special move for all character, and addition of charged attack, an overall addition of lag time spikes and lag time meteor air attacks which requires MORE SKILL and TIMING to land than simply cordinating the button combination. Theres more that i could go into, like the powered down throws that make you work for the kill, or set up juggles and combos, or the reflecting by power shielding, OR the ABILITY TO GRAB ITEMS MID AIR, or the ability to hook-shot onto ledges. MELEE offers MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH more than the original, more then just speed and characters, it offers way more depth.
Once again, your argument is that Melee had more stuff, and therefore more depth. And again, this is wrong. The limited range of options in SSB and slower time allowed you to plan much farther in advance, thus lending itself to strategy. Melee had too many potential responses to do this; it prioritized developing the right set of reflexes. Reflexes were necessary in SSB, but they were the start point rather than the end point.

Since this is all abstract theorizing, let me put it this way. In SSB, a player with even a a slight edge could end a 5-stock dual with 5 lives with reasonable frequency. In Melee, this almost never happens - something's gonna put you down at least two lives, unless its a noob v. expert match. Ergo, skill is that much less decisive, and luck is that much more important.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 10, 2006, 01:46:49 AM
you must be joking.

If by plan you mean throw to KO, then your right.
If by plan you mean abuse the no air dodge system for item ko's off the edge, then your right.
If by plan you mean the inate slowness of the game due to hardware limitations, then your right.
If by plan you mean broken characters like kirby who have a spike that was completely unreasonable in his dair, and his UpB, or jiggly who could rest 75% of the time with dair.
If you mean by plan, the inaability to spot dodge so dA smash will hit a roll always then your right.


Oh but you could plan juggles in the original, because the LACK of fast fall made it easy as HELL to calculate where a person would float to, thus making air kills with certain character like jiggly and fox easy as pie.

Oh and you could calculate where to hit them, because lack of short hops didn't give you mobility, and that means your going to setup the same point of contact, means you know where to defend, always, so you don't need to look at the player, just look at the platform and the level of contact to where you assume you'll be made, then spike at that point, and you'll be saved

Oh and your right, i did mention a bunch of stuff they added, because the stuff they added ADDED DEPTH. Adding stuff that is pointless, is adding stuff, adding stuff that ADDES DEPTH is adding depth my friend. And they fixed characters, so thats adding depth

And they fixed L-canceling, more adding of depth, cause now you can't dair or fair spam and hop out of a gaurd grab.
And throws aren't insta dewath at 70-80% i gotta drive that point home, cause guarenteed kills by throiw is noobly, you should work for that kill with skill.

Smae with spikes, delay to spikes allows for more skill, as it requires PLANNING and TIMING to pull off, mean reason people suck with kirby in melee, is the can't nail his new delayed spike.

I love SSB and melee, but what you think is fine, it is not right however.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: TEM on December 10, 2006, 02:08:23 AM
I don't mean to be a grammar Nazi, Amodaus1; but if you are going to write such long posts all the time take ten seconds to copy and paste it into something with a spell check because God damn.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 10, 2006, 02:28:50 AM
Wow, a a heated discussion about the depth of Smash Brothers, and Smash_Brother isn't around to throw his 2 cents in... :p

Anyways, I always thought the depth of the game came from the simplicity of the engine. I'm a big fan of fighters and SSB is one of the simplest fighters yet, but the depth comes from the creativity you put into it. The game has a freedom traditional fighters lack, allowing you to be your own unique fighter, despite the character you chose to play as.

I admit I am not a master SSB player, but I have seen many a heated SSB match with some awesome fighters (S_B included) to know this.

To sum it up, SSB is easy to pick up, very hard to master.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 10, 2006, 03:20:07 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: TEM
I don't mean to be a grammar Nazi, Amodaus1; but if you are going to write such long posts all the time take ten seconds to copy and paste it into something with a spell check because God damn.


My bad i got heated.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: zakkiel on December 10, 2006, 04:31:15 AM
OK, I'll try to ignore the hysteria here and respond reasonably.

Quote

If by plan you mean throw to KO, then your right.
If by plan you mean abuse the no air dodge system for item ko's off the edge, then your right.
If by plan you mean the inate slowness of the game due to hardware limitations, then your right.
If by plan you mean broken characters like kirby who have a spike that was completely unreasonable in his dair, and his UpB, or jiggly who could rest 75% of the time with dair.
If you mean by plan, the inaability to spot dodge so dA smash will hit a roll always then your right.
I could talk about how each of these limitations enabled you to think ahead; about how setting up the throw could take five or six moves; about the fact that Nintendo has said it plans to go back to slower game play (sucks to be you, I guess); and about how the difficulty of recovering from off-stage heightened the preceding game. But this is pointless.

Quote

Oh but you could plan juggles in the original, because the LACK of fast fall made it easy as HELL to calculate where a person would float to, thus making air kills with certain character like jiggly and fox easy as pie.
So don't get caught.

Quote

And they fixed L-canceling, more adding of depth, cause now you can't dair or fair spam and hop out of a gaurd grab.
Yes, dair and fair spamming are most definitely fixed now. Sriously though, I'm not gonna claim that nothing in Melee was an improvement. On the other hand, the wavedashing glitch more than makes up for it.
And throws aren't insta dewath at 70-80% i gotta drive that point home, cause guarenteed kills by throiw is noobly, you should work for that kill with skill.
So don't get thrown. See a pattern? Plan ahead. Be the one on the inside of the curve, rather than the outside. In SSB, you had to plan around your opponent's plans. In Melee, you just react faster.

Quote

Smae with spikes, delay to spikes allows for more skill, as it requires PLANNING and TIMING to pull off, mean reason people suck with kirby in melee, is the can't nail his new delayed spike.
Timing: yes. Planning: no. And the main reason most people suck with Kirby is that he sucks. Check the tiers.

Quote

Oh and your right, i did mention a bunch of stuff they added, because the stuff they added ADDED DEPTH. Adding stuff that is pointless, is adding stuff, adding stuff that ADDES DEPTH is adding depth my friend. And they fixed characters, so thats adding depth
Now you're just making a mockery of yourself. It's the Goebbels approach to argument: make the same statement enough times, and they just have to believe you!

This is threatening to become farcical, so I will leave it here. We obviously had very different experiences of the original. I hope we both enjoy SSBB.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Artimus on December 10, 2006, 05:14:55 AM
I don't enjoy either game. And I doubt I'll enjoy any of the sequels either.

But that's just because I dislike fighters.

Carry on.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 10, 2006, 05:34:03 AM
Sigh, I'm going to have to drop this arguement.

When your main counter-point is "DON'T GET CAUGHT" thats about when you know that you don't have much of an arguement. Thats like saying don't get shot in an fps. seriously, that logic is great.

Your second counter point of, setting up a throw by doing 5 or 6 moves, well it IS done in melee. So i don't know whats your point, what is done in one is done in the other, but it forces to you to think EVEN further ahead because that throw will NOT be a guarenteed kill.

Its a fighter. You will get thrown, you will get juggled, and you will get hit. The masters do lose to other masters and its not cause they suicide... Its becuase they get thrown and juggled and smashed... So please, a silly arguement like "do't get thrown" will not hold up, same as the "don't get juggled" arguement is absurd.

Melee is deeper, most people believe so, i don't need to argue with you, because tournaments for the original i have NEVER seen, but for melee there are a few.

Furthermore, difficulty of getting on the stage is just as bad in melee. You just have more options opening you up for more oprotunities. If you don't know this, it might be becuase you suck at the game. Just because you can't hit a spike now, or delay yourself action past the air dodge, doesn't mean it can't be done. If anything the brokeness of SSB is fixed in melee, but the ability to edge guard is as brutal as ever.

Yeah kirby sucks in the TIERS, i know this, however, noobs are noobs and tiers don't apply to them, and they complain pretty hard about how kirby sucks. They just can't time his spikes, thats all. Kirby contains the most spikes in the game, by technical term spike, he's still a beast.

And tiers aren't everything, in 2004 someone placed second with BOWSER and bowser is very very low teir. So please, cite tiers like you should, tier shows advantage amongst an equal playing field and amongst equal players, and tiers represent how a character is classically and generally played. If some how i revolutionized Zelda play by finding out you can wave-dash and give her a mysterious 4th jump, she would shoot up in tiers, new tactics and gameplay style change the tiers, thats why tiers are remade EVERY SINGLE YEAR. Fox Shiek Marth were top tier in 2005, in 2006 its Fox and Falco. Case and point, kirby is good, not many pros use him because he doesn't pose the easiest learning curve, and his disadvantages may equal his advantages, and most players opt for characters whose advantages outwiegh their disadvantages. This however, does not mean i will not wreck you with kirby in melee, it just mean kirby was GODMODE in the vanilla, with easy spikes that required no calculation, just follow him off the edge and spike ahoy! or do your up-B near the edge, if only the down slice catches your opponent, its a no brainer, easy as pie spike.

They can go backwards (like you claim they are, and it wouldn't suck to be me, i play the original too, i enjoy the game and premise, i was just blown away by how deep melee was) but after watching the last updated video with fox wavedashing, I highly doubt it. Either way i'll enjoy the game, but i can't be sure about you.

You can argue further, but i'm done.

Edited: Hopefully i caught a majority of those spelling errors
     
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on December 10, 2006, 06:11:07 AM
Quote

So don't get caught.... So don't get thrown.

That's not strategy. You're basically saying, "Be better at the game."

Quote

In SSB,  In Melee, you just react faster.

Well, that's not true. I don't know how you can say that the same can't be done in Melee. Reacting faster doesn't win matches. It won't help a slower character beat a faster one. Instead, as you suggested, you "plan around your opponent's plans." The dodging system is part of that. Dodging can save you, but can also leave you open for attack. That balance (deciding the right time and which dodge to use) requires strategy.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on December 10, 2006, 07:08:47 AM
So... How about adding Bonk...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Hocotate on December 10, 2006, 07:46:59 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Amodaus1
ALSO despite what you think, most hardcore fighting gamers hate KING OF FIGHTERS


I stoped reading here, you don't know what you're talking about.

edit--
Anyway, anyone remember the rumors that Game&Watch along with another character were getting the axe? I also remember talk of Baby Bowser being "confirmed" back a few months ago (obviously this was false), but I think Baby Bowser with the ability to transform into liquid Mario w/ the paintbrush would be great! I know I've already said this, but the Duck Hunt Dog is another on my wish list.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Viewtiful mario on December 10, 2006, 08:13:26 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ceric
So... How about adding Bonk...


or Rayman

With this argumanet going on I'd have to say I agree with Amodaus1 more since I agree with everything he says.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 11, 2006, 02:26:00 PM
Sorry to bump this, but with the HUGE announcement of DQ IX being a Nintendo exclusive it occurred to me...I wouldn't be surprised if they include a DQ character (either from the DS game or from the other games in the series) as promotion of the game coming to the DS.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 12, 2006, 12:04:25 AM
I doubt it, just becuase Snake is the only confirmed 3rd party character and Kojima wanted him in the game. I don't think the guys who make DQ are hounding nintendo to put their characters in the game. Kojima acctually loves smash brothers, thats why he put asked for snake to be in the game.

Either way, i think putting characters in smash might acctually be a way of subliminal advertising, i know thats why i was originally intrested in fire emblem, because i got to play with marth and roy and wonder which game they came from and if it was any good. Don't be surprised if we get some sort of Kid Icurus revival if smash sells through the roof, and it probably will.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nephilim on December 12, 2006, 12:26:35 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Hocotate
Quote

Originally posted by: Amodaus1
ALSO despite what you think, most hardcore fighting gamers hate KING OF FIGHTERS


I stoped reading here, you don't know what you're talking about.


I think its partly true, there is a new bread of street fighter fans, which sudden became "hardcore" after alpha3 was released for ps2/xbox
who arnt aware of great fighting games like kof
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on December 12, 2006, 12:43:44 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Amodaus1
I doubt it, just becuase Snake is the only confirmed 3rd party character and Kojima wanted him in the game. I don't think the guys who make DQ are hounding nintendo to put their characters in the game. Kojima acctually loves smash brothers, thats why he put asked for snake to be in the game.

Either way, i think putting characters in smash might acctually be a way of subliminal advertising, i know thats why i was originally intrested in fire emblem, because i got to play with marth and roy and wonder which game they came from and if it was any good. Don't be surprised if we get some sort of Kid Icurus revival if smash sells through the roof, and it probably will.


Actually, Sakurai mentioned that he might two or three more third party characters in the game, plus there was the rumor that Ubi submitted 4 possible characters to be selected to represent them. Plus, with Snake breaking the rule of no third party characters being in the game you know the first character in people's minds is Sonic and I wouldn't be surprised if they are already working with the negotiations.

Sakurai also mentioned that in order to include a third party character the games must have appeared at least three times on a Nintendo console, meaning that they ARE considering adding some more third party characters in.

I don't expect more than 5, since this IS all about Nintendo, but considering we have Snake it would be very weird not to see anyone else in the roster.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 12, 2006, 04:06:04 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
Quote

Originally posted by: Amodaus1
I doubt it, just becuase Snake is the only confirmed 3rd party character and Kojima wanted him in the game. I don't think the guys who make DQ are hounding nintendo to put their characters in the game. Kojima acctually loves smash brothers, thats why he put asked for snake to be in the game.

Either way, i think putting characters in smash might acctually be a way of subliminal advertising, i know thats why i was originally intrested in fire emblem, because i got to play with marth and roy and wonder which game they came from and if it was any good. Don't be surprised if we get some sort of Kid Icurus revival if smash sells through the roof, and it probably will.


Actually, Sakurai mentioned that he might two or three more third party characters in the game, plus there was the rumor that Ubi submitted 4 possible characters to be selected to represent them. Plus, with Snake breaking the rule of no third party characters being in the game you know the first character in people's minds is Sonic and I wouldn't be surprised if they are already working with the negotiations.

Sakurai also mentioned that in order to include a third party character the games must have appeared at least three times on a Nintendo console, meaning that they ARE considering adding some more third party characters in.

I don't expect more than 5, since this IS all about Nintendo, but considering we have Snake it would be very weird not to see anyone else in the roster.



Wow i didn't know the creator confirmed there would be more 3rd party characters in the game. I really thought he only put in snake cause kojima loved the game and harrassed him. I mean its not like konami really supports nintendo home consoles much, and the MGS the cube got wasn't even made by Kojima's studio or konami.

But this is good news, not only because of the characters, but it could get some popularity for 3rd party titles that have the characters they add into the game, and maybe get the wii a tad more support
 
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Madcat221 on December 12, 2006, 06:05:09 AM
I'm predicting that if an Ubi character makes it in, Rayman will be the one.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: segagamer12 on December 12, 2006, 09:44:44 AM
Ok so I FINALLY got aroudn to watching the video of this game. I was holding off because I sold my SSBMellee to a guy I owed a lot of money and dind't want to get too anticipated for this game, but me and a friend were looking for that southpark episode where cartmen wants a Wii and we stumbled upon the game trialer and I gavein and watched it.


DAMN YOU NINTENDO FOR NOT MAKING THIS LAUNCH TITLE! Now I have to wait and I was fine witht hat not seeing previews for it now I am back to waiting again.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 12, 2006, 10:00:15 AM
I actually believe the quote about 3rd party characters went more like:  The number of characters for the game is already locked, but 2 or 3 more third party characters could be in the game.

That means, that there is a potential NO other 3rd party characters are in the game.

It could also mean that more than 2-3 more are in the game.  If Snake was already confirmed and placed in the game before we even knew about the game...why couldn't other characters also be put in the game?

Though most likely it means that only 2-3 more character beyond Snake will be in the game.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on December 12, 2006, 10:49:56 AM
Nintendo says a lot of things. I don't buy the 2-3 more 3rd party characters. I actually expect more.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: bmmontfort on December 13, 2006, 01:53:29 AM
There was the flash game that mirrored smash brothers but it also had Sonic and a few others. I'm hoping that with the time left there will be a few more bombshells!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 13, 2006, 07:27:38 AM
Well i don't know about you guys, but i'll be waiting on Leon or an RE zombie.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 13, 2006, 08:15:55 AM
No,  No Resident Evil or Zombies.  Those are not iconic characters.

Iconic Characters which are acceptable (though perhaps not desired)

Sold Snake
Bomberman
Rayman
Mega Man
Chun Li or Ryu
Bonk
Simon Belmont
Sonic the Hedgehog
Tails
Bubsy the Bobcat (joking)
crash Bandicoot (unfortunately not joking, but also not desired)

Truthfully, beyond those I am having a hard time thinking of timeless characters off the top of my head.  I guess PAC MAN but he doesn't really work.  

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Madcat221 on December 13, 2006, 11:51:51 AM
New fighters added via downloadable content?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: optimisticlimbo on December 13, 2006, 01:21:32 PM
Simon Belmont would be awesome.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Edfishy on December 13, 2006, 02:58:54 PM
It tickles me with delight, this whole notion of major game characters vs. major game characters.  Although there are those who would say Brawl should remain a Nintendo character driven fighter, I find the 3rd party characters the only real earth shattering addition Nintendo's making to Smash Bros.  The question of whether or not Nintendo should is basically moot at this point, they already crossed the line.  Now it's a question of how many, and which ones.

I must say however, there isn't another company out there that could be as good of a host as Nintendo to an all-star "Brawl", and no other fighter could be as receptive to throwing a mish-mash of completely different characters into the same arena together.  With Smash's not-so-serious combat and playful attitude, there's never any one character that appears overly menacing towards another (Although Bowser does seem to have a sweet tooth for JigglyPuff), and Smash really strikes a fine balance between "This character is cool", and "This character totally ROCKS!".

That said, Sam Fisher(SplinterCell) makes perfect sense as a Ubisoft character, and was most likely included as one of the four potential "representitive" characters Ubisoft sent Nintendo's way.   After all, if Solid Snake can make it into Smash Brothers, then dang it we'd better see Sam Fisher in the next crate on its way into Brawl!
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 13, 2006, 05:31:36 PM
I hunted down the interview. The statement was he'd be adding MAYBE 1-2 3rd party characters after snake.

Also, not all melee characters will be returning, he emphasized that. I didn't know that, and that sucks, i was hoping they'd keep everyone.

Also he said he was leaning towards NOT including japanese game release only characters. For instance, if melee were to be brawl, then he would have removed marth and roy
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on December 13, 2006, 06:04:46 PM
Quote

Edfishy wrote:
I find the 3rd party characters the only real earth shattering addition Nintendo's making to Smash Bros.

Online multiplayer > 3rd party characters.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: TEM on December 14, 2006, 12:08:30 AM
Also, it's a tad early to be saying anything like that. There could be a lot of changes we don't know about yet.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on December 14, 2006, 12:31:05 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Amodaus1
I hunted down the interview. The statement was he'd be adding MAYBE 1-2 3rd party characters after snake.

Also, not all melee characters will be returning, he emphasized that. I didn't know that, and that sucks, i was hoping they'd keep everyone.

Also he said he was leaning towards NOT including japanese game release only characters. For instance, if melee were to be brawl, then he would have removed marth and roy


A DQ Slime should show up somewhere in the game.  Now on to that quote I really think that the Japan only characters where part of the draw.  Especially with the trophies.

Edit:  Also the Snowman from Snowdriftland that NoE did should be in there.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Edfishy on December 14, 2006, 02:16:49 PM
Quote

Online multiplayer > 3rd party characters.


Greater, yes, but far less shocking.  I won't be really jazzed about Brawl until I see Sonic step into the scene.

Quote

Also, it's a tad early to be saying anything like that. There could be a lot of changes we don't know about yet.


I truly hope so, but with Brawl being nearly halfway into its development and the core engine seeming to only be a modded version of Melee, I'm not expecting much in regards to evolutionary changes.  I must be among the very few who would have preferred that the team focus on getting Wiimote controls to work with Smash Bros.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Amodaus1 on December 16, 2006, 10:20:53 AM
i thought of something amusing today regarding the addition of 1 or 2 more 3rd party characters to brawl

What if the other 3rd party character was really Riaden as a snake "clone?" I think that would be both halarious and sad, and yet make sense, since there are a lot of "clones" in smash
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on December 16, 2006, 11:14:30 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Amodaus1
What if the other 3rd party character was really Riaden as a snake "clone?" I think that would be both halarious and sad, and yet make sense, since there are a lot of "clones" in smash


http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=196

Anyway I assume the third party characters left will be announced at strategic times to drum up interest... not that they need much help, though, considering how well Melee sold.

Really, my local radio station that has a gaming segment on Thursdays tends to be plauged with 360 and PS3 (yep, still) phone in questions, yet about the only Wii game (beyond Sports) that ever gets brought up there is Brawl. To that point, I would be surprised if it doesn't go on to be one of the top selling titles for the system, especially given the half a decade gap since the last one.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on January 02, 2007, 09:32:52 AM
I have decided that I would love for a Custom Robo character to be in SSBB. One of the robos, of course. It would likely be one of the Ray models. And it would be awesome.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Darkheart on January 02, 2007, 09:52:28 AM
The only robo I want is a certain Chibi Robo . . . . :P
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on January 02, 2007, 04:12:16 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: darkheart
The only robo I want is a certain Chibi Robo . . . . :P


AMEN!

And I STILL stand behind what I said about a DQ character being in SSB Brawl because of the recent DQ IX news...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UniversalJuan on January 03, 2007, 01:09:50 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: pap64
And I STILL stand behind what I said about a DQ character being in SSB Brawl because of the recent DQ IX news...


If that DQ char is Jessica (DQ8)? Sign me up
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 20, 2007, 07:26:55 AM
Revived this thread to ask a question.

When do you think this game is releasing?

It was once believed this game would be the 2007 holiday title for Nintendo.  However, with Metroid Prime 3 possibly being delayed until then, and who knows when Mario Galaxy and such will be made available.  Could it come sooner?

Future Shop has it posted for an expected release of: March 30, 2007.

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10075836&catid=24310&logon=&langid=EN

Now usually, I would leave this as a site getting information wrong.  But it made me recall Matt from IGN stating (I think in a Q&A) that he believes Brawl will be out in March.  

Finally, Reggie did state we would have an online Wii game relatively early in 2007.  Most of us believed that game would be Metroid Prime 3...but could he possibly be mentioning Brawl as that online game?

Brawl would also be the perfect game to re-surge sales of the Wii after initial demand has been satisfied.  

What do you guys think?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Artimus on January 20, 2007, 09:34:38 AM
Matt in yesterday's N-Query:

"Nothing is confirmed, Nick. I can tell you with certainty that it's not going to hit in the first or second quarters of the year, so you've got at least a six-month wait. I'd wager that we'll see the game launch against Halo 3 or as a the must-have holiday item on Wii, which puts it somewhere in the November or December time frame."
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 20, 2007, 09:48:52 AM
I have been thinking for awhile now that Smash Bros could be coming out sooner then later.  By the looks of the trailer that played early November, the game looked like it has been coming along nicely.  

Plus the game does have a huge development team, it's supposed to be bigger then the Mario Galaxy team.  This would allow a game like Smash Bros to be worked on alot faster since you can have one group working on characters and another group working on stages.  With alot of people working in each group development will go very quickly.

Plus since it's using a modified Melee engine that should be helping speed things up as well.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on January 20, 2007, 11:23:09 AM
I'm hoping June, but I'm expecting October/November.

Metroid Prime 3 will probably come out before new-E3, maybe April. I don't expect Super Mario Galaxy until November.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on January 20, 2007, 11:44:09 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
I have been thinking for awhile now that Smash Bros could be coming out sooner then later.  By the looks of the trailer that played early November, the game looked like it has been coming along nicely.  

Plus the game does have a huge development team, it's supposed to be bigger then the Mario Galaxy team.  This would allow a game like Smash Bros to be worked on alot faster since you can have one group working on characters and another group working on stages.  With alot of people working in each group development will go very quickly.

Plus since it's using a modified Melee engine that should be helping speed things up as well.


Good points, but you also have to consider that this game is going online. If those early reports of there being trouble with getting four player games to work correctly (which I can imagine under some circumstances, like the bigger levels with Pokéballs set in large quantities) then I assume this game will take awhile to test the bugs and kinks out of. I wouldn't be surprised to see some of the options compromised in online play too in the end.

Also, we really have no idea what they are doing for single player. For all we know, it could be something even grander then Adventure Mode, which could take quite a bit of time to develop.

In other words, I'd be surprised if we saw this game sooner then for the '07 Holiday period, which is also fine by me as the more time they are given to perfect it, the better the final product.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 20, 2007, 12:46:01 PM
Yeah, the online part is what's going to take awhile.  I'd imagine they're having a hard enough time trying to get the thing running right with just two players and trying to get it out by the end of this year, so I doubt they'll be four player online.  If they were to go for four players this game woundn't be out until summer 2008 at the EARLIEST.

But then again to me Smash Bros is the most fun with a bunch of friends going crazy and trash talking each other while in the same room so I dont really care how the online turns out.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: please let me in, please on January 20, 2007, 04:19:38 PM
im typing from my wii. this is awesome: brawl will also be awesome.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on January 20, 2007, 06:22:23 PM
I actually now expect it to come in Q1 2008..
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on January 20, 2007, 09:35:22 PM
The fact that Nintendo gave the team all the original source code for Melee means that development was jump started greatly.  The team for that game is huge, over 50 people.  Nintendo wants this game sooner than later, so I expect it to be earlier than 2008...and probably earlier than Summer 2007.  
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on January 21, 2007, 03:26:08 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
...and probably earlier than Summer 2007.


Considering how long Melee was hyped before release, that seems very unlikely... especially considering the last character we saw was Fox, when they could have, and should have, shown more if they were going to release it in six months.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on January 21, 2007, 05:54:13 AM
Same as with Mario Galaxy, Nintendo doesn't want it until the Wii stops selling out everywhere. SSBB is a system seller, and if they released it early, it wouldn't reach its potential. I think they want to space out their three big titles - probably Metroid first, then Galaxy in autumn, then Brawl next year.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: willie1234 on January 21, 2007, 09:25:13 AM
i'm going with
summer 07 - metroid
holiday 07 - mario
q1 08 *earliest* - for brawl.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on January 21, 2007, 02:37:24 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Yeah, the online part is what's going to take awhile.  I'd imagine they're having a hard enough time trying to get the thing running right with just two players and trying to get it out by the end of this year, so I doubt they'll be four player online.  If they were to go for four players this game woundn't be out until summer 2008 at the EARLIEST.


If it isn't four-player online, then it's completely f**king useless. Woo. I can play one person. So exciting. So Smash Bros.-like. FAIL.

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 21, 2007, 03:28:45 PM
Tournaments are all duels anyway so I fully expect 2 player online to be included if that's ALL they can do.

There's no 4 player online fighting game, to my knowledge. Games like these generate too much information which needs to be transferred too quickly to sustain more than 2 players.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on January 21, 2007, 04:06:12 PM
And that's one of the reasons Nintendo has been waiting so long for online - it's extremely hard to make their multiplayer games as seamless online as they are offline..
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ian Sane on January 22, 2007, 01:30:02 AM
"If it isn't four-player online, then it's completely f**king useless."

I agree.  To me having four players is what makes SSB.  If I want to play a two player fighting game there are MUCH better options.  SSB is fun as a party game but as a one-on-one fighter it's pretty dull.  Plus I might as well wait until they do make a four player online SSB.  I'm not such a big fan that I need every game in the series.  I can wait until they do it right.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 22, 2007, 01:42:15 AM
You don't have friends you'd play Brawl with IRL?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Pittbboi on January 22, 2007, 02:17:13 AM
That's why I'm not expecting Brawl to have much of an online component. Smash Bros is such a fast paced game, with so much information that needs to processed at near-instant speeds that I don't see it working online without there being lag. And a good game of Smash Bros is so dependent on timing your moves down to the millisecond that if there's any sort of lag the entire game can be compromised. They would probably have to have a stripped down version of Brawl to work with online, but all the items of moves and, well, madness is what makes Smash Bros. what it is.

And, to be honest, with Nintendo being so iffy when it comes to online, online is probably the one gaming medium I wouldn't trust them to get right (because they haven't so far). Online is definitely a new frontier that I want Nintendo to tackle. But I don't want Smash Bros. to be the guinea pig.

But this just begs the question: does Brawl even need online??? I personally don't think so. It's the ultimate in multiplayer fighting goodness. Even if you could get it to work online without having to strip it down (which I doubt), it wouldn't have the same appeal that having a group of people over to play would.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ian Sane on January 22, 2007, 03:07:41 AM
"But this just begs the question: does Brawl even need online???"

Yes.  I see SSBM as a perfect sequel.  Online is all it is missing.  Any other additions would be minor in comparison and not enough to justify a new game.  Without online the only reason to release a new SSB is just because it's on a new console but the resulting game would probably be very redundant.  This is especially true on the Wii where there isn't the same hardware leap as there was from the N64 to the Cube.  The graphics and sound aren't going to be much different and the game isn't going to use the remote so what's the f*cking point if it's not online?  It'll just be More Super Smash Bros Melee.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on January 22, 2007, 03:12:17 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
It'll just be More Super Smash Bros Melee.


What world do we live in where that's not enough?
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 22, 2007, 03:14:13 AM
STUPID WORLD
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 22, 2007, 04:38:47 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane It'll just be More Super Smash Bros Melee.


Actually, Brawl is already going to be slower and, according to Sakurai, more balanced.

I'll take any online they could provide, 2 player or otherwise. I found duels to be a more precise method of combat than hectic 4 player matches (not that I didn't enjoy them, only that it was harder to determine individual skill when it was one giant clusterf*ck).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on January 22, 2007, 04:57:24 AM
Sure it can.  A 4-player battle is about who can manage chaos best, if that statement is understandable at all.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on January 22, 2007, 05:32:04 AM
I can appreciate both types of combat, especially since 4 player games tend to break down into two duels happening at the same time with players pairing off and going to fight on either side of the screen.

Thus, I wouldn't mind if we had only 2 player online battles. It's a limitation of the internet more than programming. This is why SSBB will be slowed down from what Melee was.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: SixthAngel on January 22, 2007, 05:45:43 AM
If there is only 2 player online battles I would rather them not even put it in.  Put the online work towards something else because ssb is made to be played with a group of people.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on January 22, 2007, 05:49:22 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: SixthAngel
If there is only 2 player online battles I would rather them not even put it in.  Put the online work towards something else because ssb is made to be played with a group of people.


Okay, now while I would love to have four player bouts online (who wouldn't?), if it came down to the choice of 2 player online play or no online play... I would take the former without even a second of thought to the matter.

Hopefully, bots will be possible in online play as well so that even if you had only two "live" players, it would still translate into the more hectic nature of the game for those who want it.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on January 22, 2007, 05:57:03 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I'll take any online they could provide, 2 player or otherwise.

I agree. I see online as an extra. I still prefer playing with people in the same room. I've "met" people on other forums from anywhere to across the country to the other side of the world. I'd love to play them, but perhaps the technology isn't where it needs to be. Nintendo never prominsed 4 player online so at least I'm not expecting it.

There's a lot of room for improvement on other areas of the game. I know that's a very unpopular opinion among fans. Just like Melee was leaps and bounds better than the original (and I know some disagree), I hope Brawl is leaps and bounds better than Melee.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ian Sane on January 22, 2007, 06:12:20 AM
"What world do we live in where that's not enough?"

Well for most of the world more of the same is enough.  Madden for example.  I'm just not a big enough fan of SSB to bother with another game for what is largely the same experience.  At least cookie-cutter single player games have new levels and such.  I'm just not very interested in multiplayer focused titles that are incredibly similar to their predecessors.  I'd probably get something like that used for a low price but I wouldn't pay full price for just some extra characters and stages.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on January 22, 2007, 06:15:28 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Ian Sane
At least cookie-cutter single player games have new levels and such.


I think you have forgotten "Adventure mode" in Smash Bros...
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Nephilim on January 22, 2007, 06:26:47 AM
Quote

That's why I'm not expecting Brawl to have much of an online component. Smash Bros is such a fast paced game, with so much information that needs to processed at near-instant speeds that I don't see it working online without there being lag. And a good game of Smash Bros is so dependent on timing your moves down to the millisecond that if there's any sort of lag the entire game can be compromised. They would probably have to have a stripped down version of Brawl to work with online, but all the items of moves and, well, madness is what makes Smash Bros. what it is.    And, to be honest, with Nintendo being so iffy when it comes to online, online is probably the one gaming medium I wouldn't trust them to get right (because they haven't so far). Online is definitely a new frontier that I want Nintendo to tackle. But I don't want Smash Bros. to be the guinea pig.    But this just begs the question: does Brawl even need online??? I personally don't think so. It's the ultimate in multiplayer fighting goodness. Even if you could get it to work online without having to strip it down (which I doubt), it wouldn't have the same appeal that having a group of people over to play would.

That seems to be a myth online, melee hack that allowed online play only had slight lag with 4 people
and 120 player servers for PC game Jiont operations, clearly show client2client servers can handle alot of onscreen actions

I dont see how brawl is a new frontier, gamespy proberly have all the tools premade
its up to nintendo to use them right!
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Koekoenutt on January 22, 2007, 06:30:10 AM
Hello. I am recently new around here, and I have enjoyed PlanetGamecube.com since it's start. Unfortantly, as much as I like to come in and read the forums, I never really got around to actually signing up and posting until now. I have always found myself as a huge Nintendo fan/supporter and it's amazing to come to a place like this and see people that are way more hardcore about it than I am.

Reading this thread, actually has motivated me into signing up and posting, instead of always reading what these forums have for offer. I think a lot of you are forgetting that there are a lot of players out there that just play Super Smash Brothers Melee for 1v1 action. I enjoy this game as much as anyone, and I enjoy every single aspect in the game. To me, It was one of the few 10/10 games out there that keeps me playing years later, stil addicted as I was when I first picked it up. There are tournments all over the US, all based upon 1v1 fighting. I don't think Nintendo would neglect this, and I really don't think Nintendo would see it as being an online failure if they only had support for 2 player online action.

I have full trust in the developers for Brawl. Nintendo creating their own very studio and team, just for the Brawl itself, to me is proof that they will not go wrong with this title. I enjoy getting together with 3 other friends and play the game for a good hour or two. No other game can get a group of friends together and talk as much crap to each other, as Melee has done for me. Still, Playing the game with no items and 1v1 duels, is an aspect of the game that goes to another level that 4 player combat really can't get into. I really do understand that you can show your skill in organizing the choas on screen the best, but I think 2 player gives a different skill aspect than 4 player does, and in this I really think that the game's enjoyment level really gains.

For Nintendo not to put a 2 player Online mode in, than nothing at all, would be silly and would be ignoring a huge mass of people that bought Melee for the gamecube. Let alone, There are a lot more people who own a Wii than a Gamecube, and a different crowd of gamers will finally get their greedy hands on this wonderful series.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: vudu on January 22, 2007, 06:50:52 AM
Welcome to the forums.  Unfortunately, you seem to have forgotten one thing:  if Ian doesn't want it personally he doesn't care about it.  Same goes for Smash Bro (unless we're talking GTA Wii; then he still doesn't care but will at least admit that it's important because many others would play it).
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on January 22, 2007, 06:50:57 AM
Welcome Koekoenutt, and I fully agree with all of your points. The game is fun regardless of how you play, and the strength of the title falls in its diverse number of choices, from 1vs1 on Final Destination to 4 player free-for-all on the Rainbow Cruise. People like to play it any number of ways, so anything they can support through online play would be welcome by at least a good portion of the game's ongoing community of players to make it more than worthwhile.

I also concure 100% that it's one of the few A+ games out there, and likewise has kept me coming back for more long after release unlike pretty much any other game out there, save perhaps StarCraft.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on January 22, 2007, 08:52:17 AM
Very well put, welcome
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on February 08, 2007, 02:31:11 AM
I was playing Melee yesterday and a few things came to mind.

I don't like that pressing up on the analog stick makes you jump. It makes the slightly up+A attacks are harder to pull off. There are 2 jump buttons. It just seems extraneous.

If there's a Belmont in the game, the Castlevania stage could be the broken staircase leading to the Dracula's throne room. I better see a damn Belmont in the game....

Each character has modified versions of their original costumes (i.e. Peach's dress is more detailed). I'd like to see every character have a completely original Smash-only costume. I guess I just don't like the color-palettes.

I'd like to see Arthur from Ghouls and Ghosts. Too bad Maximo is out since he was PS2-only and the games sold so poorly. I liked that character.

Physics could use a lot of work.

Newcomer: Mii. I'm sure someone brought else mentioned this here. It's so obvious.

I bring this up whenever I talk about what I want to see in a Smash Bros. game. Create-A-Stage. Send them to a friend's over WiiConnect24.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 08, 2007, 02:39:50 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
Newcomer: Mii. I'm sure someone brought else mentioned this here. It's so obvious.

I bring this up whenever I talk about what I want to see in a Smash Bros. game. Create-A-Stage. Send them to a friend's over WiiConnect24.
Imagine a 100 Mii challenge where you fight all 100 of the Miis attached to your system.

I hope they include that in the game.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 08, 2007, 02:51:16 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
I was playing Melee yesterday and a few things came to mind.

I don't like that pressing up on the analog stick makes you jump. It makes the slightly up+A attacks are harder to pull off. There are 2 jump buttons. It just seems extraneous.

If there's a Belmont in the game, the Castlevania stage could be the broken staircase leading to the Dracula's throne room. I better see a damn Belmont in the game....

Each character has modified versions of their original costumes (i.e. Peach's dress is more detailed). I'd like to see every character have a completely original Smash-only costume. I guess I just don't like the color-palettes.

I'd like to see Arthur from Ghouls and Ghosts. Too bad Maximo is out since he was PS2-only and the games sold so poorly. I liked that character.

Physics could use a lot of work.

Newcomer: Mii. I'm sure someone brought else mentioned this here. It's so obvious.

I bring this up whenever I talk about what I want to see in a Smash Bros. game. Create-A-Stage. Send them to a friend's over WiiConnect24.


You can count the Belmont character out. It seems that the rule will be one character per developer, and Konami is already represented via Solid Snake.

if Capcom decides to participate, I could either Megaman or someone from Resident Evil since those two franchises are the closest to Nintendo yet.

I LOVE the Mii idea. I hope they remember to implement them somehow. Hell, I'll take them as random audience members in a giant stadium

But let's not get our hopes up here...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 08, 2007, 03:39:23 AM
I think several people suggested using Miis instead of the Wire Frame Army.

An army of Miis attacking you would be great as an event challenge.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Pittbboi on February 08, 2007, 04:04:37 AM
Quote


You can count the Belmont character out. It seems that the rule will be one character per developer, and Konami is already represented via Solid Snake.


Yeah, which sucks, because I think a Belmont would have made a lot more sense in Brawl than Snake. I'm still curious about how his character is going to work out.

I don't know about Megaman: I think Samus has the whole blaster thing covered in the game. But if Capcom does jump on board I would LOVE to see Viewtiful Joe in the game. And a Viewtiful Joe stage would kick all sorts of a**.

And I think it's safe to assume that Mii's are going to be incorporated into the game SOMEHOW after the success of Wii Sports. Maybe not as a fighting character, but at the very LEAST an item of some kind. And I think a stage that's a montage of the various Wii Sports games would be hot.

Imagine a stage where you're fighting on the Wii Sports tennis court and there are actual Miis running around in the background, but you're not fearing them. No, what you fear is the occasional giant wiimote flying through the "television screen" at you because the "player" who you can't see let go and the strap broke. Instant KO if you get hit. Or there could be a special move for that stage only where if a player shakes the Wiimote at just the right time, in just the right way, the game will interpret it as the player letting go and will send a giant wiimote hurling through the arena, dealing major damage to all of the opponents it hits. That would be awesome.

EDIT: Wait. that won't work. Just remembered that Brawl is going to use the Gamecube controller....*sigh*...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 08, 2007, 05:22:43 AM
Ok.

Mega Man isn't just a blaster.  He would be the ultimate ranged attacker, pushing ranged attacks even beyond that of Samus.  The reason being that his special moves can all be based on different classic powers from Mega Man Bosses.

Very cool ideas like a Leaf Shield for his shield Block, that shoots out after blocking can be done, and more.  Mega Man literally has limitless ideas for Smash Brothers.

Viewtiful Joe would be very hard to represent ACCURATELY, with his powers and abilities.

That being said, the designers could easily create an awesome stage for him.

I would create a stage design with movie film holes rolling on each side of the level.  

The level would randomly go into Slow Motion slowing everyone and everything down, creating larger explosions and what not...as well as Speed Up into Mach Speed.  Also if a character is thrown into the Screen then the Film will break and start another scene which would be brand new Viewtiful Joe Environment to play in.  There could be 3 total of these worlds to cycle through as you play.  Along with the music you could have the sound effects of the film reel rolling.


Finally, Nobody knows how this game is going to control.  Just because it was mentioned that the Gamecube controllers COULD be used, doesn't mean they will definitely be used.  I personally will be pissed if it just Gamecube controllers, and I am sure Nintendo is aware that several people will have bought a Wii and not the Gamecube controller.  I suspect it will be playable with Wiimote/Classic Controller/and Gamecube controller.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on February 08, 2007, 05:43:42 AM
I'm not discounting Belmont. I don't know where that "rule" about 1 character per third party originated from. Nintendo, Sora, and whoever else is involved with Brawl can do as they please.

And Viewtiful Joe would be awesome, but I'm curious as to how they'd do his character justice. Then again, I'm no game designer. If they wanted to, I'm sure they could pull it off.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on February 08, 2007, 05:52:35 AM
Quote

EDIT: Wait. that won't work. Just remembered that Brawl is going to use the Gamecube controller....*sigh*...
No.. it'll probably use the remote+analogue attachment. It just won't use the motion controls.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 08, 2007, 07:08:24 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
I'm not discounting Belmont. I don't know where that "rule" about 1 character per third party originated from. Nintendo, Sora, and whoever else is involved with Brawl can do as they please.



According to Sakura, there's only going to be 1-2 more third party characters.  Now since Sonic is pretty much a guarantee, there's only room for one more.  And with Nintendo and Square-Enix having a very very close relation ship right now (Five Final Fantasy characters appearing in Mario Hoops and the Dragon Quest + Mario Itagaki Street game coming out), it's looking very clear that the last character is going to be from Square-Enix.

Plus the thing is the Castlevania series isn't very popular compared to alot of other third party series.  Snake got in because he's the star of Konami's most successful series that sells millions of copies.  And because of the Twin Snakes deal between Nintendo and Konami last gen, it provides a loophole that allows Snake to be in the game.  Even though they're using his design from Sons of Liberty which never appeared on a Nintendo console.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 08, 2007, 07:15:42 AM
Why is everyone repeating old talk?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on February 08, 2007, 07:44:41 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
Why is everyone repeating old talk?


Because we know nothing new about the game since Fox was shown? Speaking of... I still demand a good video source of that demonstration to come from somewhere. The feed on the site itself is pretty poor, I even prefer the camcorder version someone made over that.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 08, 2007, 08:01:29 AM
Honestly, I don't think about SSBB these days at all.

Too much else to look forward to...
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Luigi Dude on February 08, 2007, 09:39:04 AM
I think we'll have some new stuff to talk about soon.  I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo shows a new trailer at GDS which is only a month away.  My guess is Donkey Kong and Yoshi will be shown in this trailer.  Then all of the original eight will have been revealed for Brawl.

Then after that we'll have to wait until whatever the event is that's replacing E3 to finally see some hands-on previews.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 08, 2007, 10:32:41 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Honestly, I don't think about SSBB these days at all.

Too much else to look forward to...


Which in your case is good, because it was your extreme excitement towards SSB Melee that actually ruined it. That and at the time the GC selection was slim pickings, making you wish for SSB Melee even more.

This isn't the case with Brawl, since there are a lot of games to look forward to and Brawl isn't the sole killer APP on the Wii.

I DO want some new info, though.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on February 08, 2007, 11:40:11 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: IceCold
Quote

EDIT: Wait. that won't work. Just remembered that Brawl is going to use the Gamecube controller....*sigh*...
No.. it'll probably use the remote+analogue attachment. It just won't use the motion controls.


Except Sakurai already said it would most likely use the Gamecube controller.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Koekoenutt on February 08, 2007, 12:24:38 PM
I wish I could find the link again where Sakurai was saying they would have an option for the gamecube controller. A lot of people are really picky about the controller they use in smash brothers, and even bring their own becuase they are so used to it and the wear and tear they created for themselves. So, becuase of this, Sakurai wanted to make sure that the gamecube controller will be implimented into the game. I'm pretty sure there will be an option for the other controllers as well, though no proof on that anywhere that Ive found.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NWR_pap64 on February 08, 2007, 01:37:10 PM
Sakurai pretty much said that he didn't want to shoehorn in Wii controls in fear of sacrificing gameplay for the sake of innovation.

I wouldn't be surprised if Nintendo is somehow trying to convince him to include some sort of Wiimote functions, considering that some of the Wii's fighters use them, but they too were clear that they want the best controls possible.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: IceCold on February 08, 2007, 04:08:27 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Dirk Temporo
Quote

Originally posted by: IceCold
Quote

EDIT: Wait. that won't work. Just remembered that Brawl is going to use the Gamecube controller....*sigh*...
No.. it'll probably use the remote+analogue attachment. It just won't use the motion controls.


Except Sakurai already said it would most likely use the Gamecube controller.
I meant that it won't only be playable on the GameCube controller. The remote plus attachment has plenty of buttons; Smash Bros only needs an attack, special attack, jump and shield button. Throws could be done the combination way. The only thing different is the digital click GameCube shoulder buttons for the shield, but that doesn't matter much.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on February 08, 2007, 04:13:10 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: IceCold
The remote plus attachment has plenty of buttons; Smash Bros only needs an attack, special attack, jump and shield button. Throws could be done the combination way.


Up is jump, so you don't really need another button for that. I'm sure a number of people would complain, but it seems the most logical mapping of the controls to the Remote/Nunchuk to leave jump to just Up.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 08, 2007, 04:43:05 PM
HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO.

That would make Peach's ground-level instant-floating impossible or completely ineffective.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on February 08, 2007, 05:14:49 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NO.

That would make Peach's ground-level instant-floating impossible or completely ineffective.


Well then there is the GCN controller.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: NinGurl69 *huggles on February 08, 2007, 05:23:49 PM
Let's just cancel the game.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on February 08, 2007, 05:25:31 PM
Quote

Originally posted by: Professional 666
Let's just cancel the game.


Touché
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 08, 2007, 10:22:41 PM
I actually hated the feature of Up being jump.  I have wished for awhile they would just take that out and leave it just a button press, so they can make it easier to plan and use up attacks...charging them and what not.

Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on February 09, 2007, 12:13:04 AM
It is not hard to use upward attacks on the ground.  Jumping happens when you tap the stick up.  If you just want to attack, you tilt the stick.  You don't even have to tilt it all the way, thus avoiding the possibility that the game will register it as a tap.  If you can differentiate between smash attacks and non-smash attacks in the other directions, you can do the same for upward attacks.  If you can't differentiate, then I submit that you are broken, not the controls.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 09, 2007, 01:00:40 AM
PartyBear:  While I was writing that, I realized that I had very few problems with the system.  (I did on the Nintendo 64 game)

I just find it confusing to have two methods of jumping, and the button is such a better system for jumping, that I would perfer it.


Now another question to pose.

Since Online Gaming may be limited so that the experience is remains fast and responsive.  A question to ask is what is essential in your mind to the Smash Brothers Online Experience?  What must be included in the game, and what can be dropped for the sake of smooth online play?

For me this question breaks down to which is more important 4-Player matches or Items.

I think it would be more important to have 4-Player battles actually online and limited to no items in play (even severally limited items) than to give up that 4-Player craziness of Smash Brothers Multiplayer.

However, if 4 Players can not be done with correct responsive and smooth online play, then I think 2 player with all items is important.

What do you think?
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UltimatePartyBear on February 09, 2007, 01:35:18 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
PartyBear:  While I was writing that, I realized that I had very few problems with the system.  (I did on the Nintendo 64 game)

I just find it confusing to have two methods of jumping, and the button is such a better system for jumping, that I would perfer it.

There's definitely a learning curve.  When I first played the original, for example, I had a heck of a time getting Link to pull out a bomb without jumping down through a platform.  I got it down pat with practice, but I can understand that some people haven't.  There are some things in Melee that I never mastered, but then again they're things that I don't think really should be in the game, like wave dashing (which I can kind of do, but not usefully) and SHFFLing (which I can't do).  If my best friend and primary opponent had learned to use those techniques in order to beat me, I think I could have mastered them myself, since that's what happened every other time he tried to get a leg up.

I never found a good place to test it in Melee, but in the original the two methods of jumping behaved differently.  You couldn't jump quite as high if you used a button, but you could jump further horizontally.  The difference was very slight, but I found that it was directly observable if you used Link on the Board the Platforms stage.  From the starting position, press a button to jump.  He won't quite make it to the platform above.  When he lands back where he started, tap straight up.  He'll just make it.  I've always assumed that the difference still exists in Melee, but I've never bothered to test it.  I found that place in the original by chance (and I hope I'm remembering it right).


Personally, I will only be satisfied if Brawl's online mode is indistinguishable from the offline mode.  I don't know or care if that's impossible.  I don't think I can decide which features I'd be willing to sacrifice.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: decoyman on February 09, 2007, 02:15:56 AM
I really like the idea of using a Mii as a playable character. (Of course, I fully supported including your animal crossing character before we knew about Miis, but using a Mii would accomplish the same goal better.*) They could even use Wii Sports equipment for their special attacks – for a powerful uppercut (UP+Smash), the mii could temporarily don boxing gloves. For smash attacks, he/she could whip out a tennis racket, golf club, or bat and just whale away. The mii's "projectile" attack could be to hit baseballs or roll bowling balls.

I haven't played Wii Play yet (next week booyah), but maybe some references can be pulled from there as well.

As for online... It's a GIVEN that this game needs to be online. It's basically begging for it. In what capacity? Well, I think a 2-player duel option is the bare minimum. Anything less, and I will be THOROUGHLY disappointed. Ideally, however, 4-player, with items (maybe excluding Pokeballs, if they cause too much to happen at once).

* Though, I still dream about whupping Bowser, Pichu or Jigglypuff with KK Slider.

P.S. – Up for jump should stay, as well as a button if possible. I haven't ever had trouble jumping instead of pulling off UP smash attacks, and I use both jump options, depending on the situation and what other buttons I'm hitting at the time.  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smoke39 on February 09, 2007, 08:36:21 AM
I think it'd be nice if they made up being jump optional, though Nintendo doesn't seem to like to provide configurable control options like that.  The targetting method in the 3D Zelda games is the only thing I can think of.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Dirk Temporo on February 09, 2007, 10:58:43 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok
Quote

Originally posted by: IceCold
The remote plus attachment has plenty of buttons; Smash Bros only needs an attack, special attack, jump and shield button. Throws could be done the combination way.


Up is jump, so you don't really need another button for that. I'm sure a number of people would complain, but it seems the most logical mapping of the controls to the Remote/Nunchuk to leave jump to just Up.


You mean except for the part where the majority of people who play SSB use the buttons to jump because it's massively easier and more convenient?

My friends and I can't even play single button melee because we need to use up to jump, and it's completely gimped.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 11, 2007, 12:30:25 AM
I hate using up to jump. I've ALWAYS used the buttons.

Also, I wouldn't mind online play with only 1v1 for two reasons:

1. Tournaments are always done in 1v1 duels anyway so online tournaments would be a ready possibility.

2. It forces them to actually balance the characters so we don't have 3 characters who are always the tournament winners and the other 37 are not an option if you actually want to, you know, win.

I know people will be quick to argue that tiers don't matter because they only affect tournament play or some other such garbage, but once online enters the picture, EVERYONE will have a chance to be in tournaments so the characters NEED to be balanced, certainly more so than SSBM was.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: UniversalJuan on February 11, 2007, 03:09:45 AM
Again with you and this three character thing. The 2nd best recognized player in the world (BombSoldier) does not use any of the "Golden 3" (Marth, Fox, Shiek) as his mainstay. Rather, he uses Falco. His matches vs. #1 (Ken, Marth user) are GREAT! I've seen this dude do things with Falco I didn't even think were humanly possible! Characters who are more than capable of winning tournaments include, but are not limited to, Peach, Captain Falcon, Mario, Dr. Mario, Pikachu (I've already witnessed this done so don't bring me crap about it not being done, you just suck), Falco, Shiek, Marth, ganondorf. waht characters haven't had their full or near full potential unlocked is yet to be seen, but the fact that some haven't speaks volumes to the balance that already exists in Melee.

I want Brawl like a drug. I bought my Wii on the promise of Brawl. Melee made me buy a Cube and I counted down the minutes waiting for it (Desktop timer and it was set into my watch at the time). Smash is lifeblood for me. I've attended many a tournament so don't give me this "Only three characters" BS. You go to some tournament play (I recommend some events from SmashWorld Forums, great people there...here's to you darkrain if you're reading this!) and see what you apparently have not seen just yet.

Oh, a very sweet Bombsoldier video to cap it off for those who haven't seen him in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOKyMf_sa7U
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Arbok on February 11, 2007, 03:23:22 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: UniversalJuan
Again with you and this three character thing. The 2nd best recognized player in the world (BombSoldier) does not use any of the "Golden 3" (Marth, Fox, Shiek) as his mainstay. Rather, he uses Falco.


The new tier list has Fox and Falco at the top. ...the fact that the list is constantly revised though at least is proof enough that the game isn't exactly "broken" when it comes to balance as I have seen some try to state. My problem with Melee was always much less in terms of the top tiered characters too, but more problems with the lower ones like Kirby, Mewtwo and especially Bowser.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 11, 2007, 03:54:21 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Arbok The new tier list has Fox and Falco at the top.


Arbok beat me to it.

On occasion, the top tier and second tier get shuffled around a bit, but it's always been the same four or five out of 25 characters.

Quote

Originally posted by: UniversalJuan
Again with you and this three character thing. The 2nd best recognized player in the world (BombSoldier) does not use any of the "Golden 3" (Marth, Fox, Shiek) as his mainstay. Rather, he uses Falco. His matches vs. #1 (Ken, Marth user) are GREAT! I've seen this dude do things with Falco I didn't even think were humanly possible! Characters who are more than capable of winning tournaments include, but are not limited to, Peach, Captain Falcon, Mario, Dr. Mario, Pikachu (I've already witnessed this done so don't bring me crap about it not being done, you just suck), Falco, Shiek, Marth, ganondorf. waht characters haven't had their full or near full potential unlocked is yet to be seen, but the fact that some haven't speaks volumes to the balance that already exists in Melee.


Sorry, but no.

If the characters in this game were TRULY balanced, then we would constantly be seeing an upset regarding these tiers, but they've stayed pretty much the same when it comes to who is considered top.

If this game was indeed balanced, then Ken himself would be able to keep reclaiming the title of #1 every year with a different character, or someone would bring a previously low tier character up into the finals of the game over tourneys.

But the fact remains: this does not happen. You can flap your gums about anecdotal evidence all you want and it doesn't change the fact that, statistically, SOMEONE would have brought every character to the top at least once if it was truly possible to do so.

It's not, and all I truly want from Brawl is for the general rule of "speed=king" to no longer apply (Fox, Falco, Marth and Shiek are at the top because of their speed, basically having the lowest amount of downtime between moves).

Quote

My problem with Melee was always much less in terms of the top tiered characters too, but more problems with the lower ones like Kirby, Mewtwo and especially Bowser.


My thoughts EXACTLY. I love Bowser's character but playing as him equates handicapping myself because he's just so damn slow. I thought the whole point of SSB is to play as the Nintendo characters you love and win with them, not play as whichever character has the biggest edge over all of the others.

Hence why I want Brawl to be balanced more than anything else and also why I was ecstatic to hear the quote from Sakurai about balance: "We will create this game with balance in mind."  
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on February 11, 2007, 07:24:00 AM
Oh, the Smash Bros. is balanced/unbalanced debate. I've stated my piece before so I'm not touching this one with a 37 foot pole. 37?! My girlfriend sucked 37 dic.......

I will say this though, based on the trailers (which, admittedly, isn't much to go on anyway), Metaknight is awful fast and appears to have an amazing jump. I wonder how they're going to even that out.

Anyway, I hope the stages are to scale. It's not a major problem; I wouldn't even classify it as a "problem." I'd just like to see the characters to scale with the background.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 11, 2007, 08:11:05 AM
When someone beats Ken and BombSoldier with Bowser, I'll happily admit I'm wrong on the subject. Until then, my opinion is set in stone.

I actually wonder if Nintendo won't introduce "balance" patches to the game.

You have to consider there are actually 2 versions of SSBM out there: 1.0 and 1.1 in which they modified how Bowser's fire breath works so the idea of balancing post release isn't too far fetched.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 12, 2007, 04:26:22 AM
I hope they don't upgrade the game.  I don't want to have to worry about patches with the game.  Its something I find annoying about PC games, and I don't want to creeping into my console systems.

As for the tier thing...why don't we stop speculating about Brawl until it comes out.  We have no idea how the designers are handling the heavy hitters yet, because not a single heavy hitter has been shown.  For the most part the balance between middle weight and light weight players is pretty solid (not perfect, but pretty good.)  

I am sure the designers are working hard to bring new ideas to the heavy weight characters to beef up their balance.  Probably both defensively and offensively.  

It just seems pointless to complain during periods of speculation.  And Melee is already out, and nothing can be done about that game...so it is also pointless to complain about that.  

Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Smash_Brother on February 12, 2007, 04:49:36 AM
I'm not speculating: I'm only going on what we know so far:

1. The game is slower than SSBM. We wouldn't have the mountains of b*tching from the SSB community about the game being slowed down otherwise.

2. Sakurai said he wanted the game to be balanced.

All the rest is up in the air.

With Brawl being slower, I already got half of what I wanted. I hoped that Brawl will be slower than Melee and actually balanced. Sakurai has already made good on one of those promises, but we'll have to wait and see on the other.

As for updates, yeah, I'm not fond of the game being updated post-release either, but quite frankly, if the choice is between accepting online updates or having a broken character who either sucks or rules, I'll take the former.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on February 12, 2007, 06:51:25 AM
I always figured all the harping about Brawl being slowed down was based on hearsay. I watched the trailers again and they game doesn't appear any slower than Melee. Granted, they were just trailers and most likely not representative of final gameplay.

Does anyone have a link?

And seriously, what does "slowed down" even mean? It's an awfully cryptic statement. What does it refer to exactly? I think we'll have our answer at GDC.

And no to patches. Not every Wii is connected to the internet. Patches would create all sorts of problems.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Ceric on February 12, 2007, 07:09:30 AM
I say no to patches.  They have no place on a game developed for that console.
The only reason I tolerate them on the PC is because the PC is always in flux.
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MaryJane on February 12, 2007, 07:11:46 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock


And no to patches. Not every Wii is connected to the internet. Patches would create all sorts of problems.


What kind of problems? The only problem I could see from patches would be issues if two people were playing each other online and one had the patch and the other didn't, that could easily be resolved by the server allowing(letting the non-patcher access or at least see what the patcher has) or disallowing the patched content. The only problem with that theory is that both Wii systems would be connected to the internet, and the patches are likely to be dirt cheap if not free.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Adrock on February 12, 2007, 07:22:54 AM
Online matches shouldn't be a problem because if you're playing online, you'll probably have the patches. But if I go to my friend's house and he's not connected, I could be using an unpatched Link or Peach. That creates 2 or more kinds of players due to different patches. Imagine that at tournaments.

I just don't like the idea of patches. I'd rather a game company get it right the first time. Melee might not have been perfect, but I think it's still highly playable 5 years later. If Brawl can be that replayable, I don't think there wuld be any need for patches even if Fox is still ridiculous.
Title: RE: Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: Koekoenutt on February 12, 2007, 07:26:43 AM
I can deal with patches, as long as they actually are doing something and not changing the game, and not to many. Out of any Nintendo game though, I think Super Smash Brothers comes out almost perfect, and it seems that the BETA of the game is always played through thick and thin. The only real reason I can see Nintendo really needing a patch with this game, is if tournment play isn't added or implented the way they wanted to, and it grew into being a huge thing. I don't really see Nintendo changing or adding content, maybe a level or two - but we all know thats a BIG iffy Maybe -, but just to add things like highscores for some single player mode or something dealing with tournments and how things are setup online.

All in all, if there is a patch, I think it will only deal with things dealing with the online portion of the game, and if you don't have an internet connection for your Wii, it shouldn't be a problem
Title: RE:Super Smash Bros. Brawl
Post by: MaryJane on February 12, 2007, 08:01:12 AM
Quote

Originally posted by: Adrock
Online matches shouldn't be a problem because if you're playing online, you'll probably have the patches. But if I go to my friend's house and he's not connected, I could be using an unpatched Link or Peach. That creates 2 or more kinds of players due to different patches. Imagine that at tournaments.

I just don't like the idea of patches. I'd rather a game company get it right the first time. Melee might not have been perfect, but I think it's still highly playable 5 years later. If Brawl can be that replayable, I don't think there wuld be any need for patches even if Fox is still ridiculous.


but how would this happen? can you bring a character from one game to another? I see no reason for being able to carry them in your remote like a wii remote because their stats (in attack, defense, etc.) don't differ just because you've played more with them in your game. If there was any purpose to carrying the character it would be in preperation of knowing that you're friend didn't have the patch, and you wanted to use a patched character, if t