Topic: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[GoldenPhoenix]

This is an interesting debate, for me I prefer Melee over the original. Personally I enjoyed the larger stages and hope that does not change in Brawl. Not sure about the balancing debate because frankly I never played with anyone that was that good and I usually used Bowser or DK, and did fine.

[Spak-Spang]

I don't mind large stages.  One of my favorite stages in Melee is Zelda's castle stage.  It was big, but functional.

However, some of the moving stages were almost unplayable...and you battled against the stage more than your opponents.  

In many ways, I think the smaller levels (specially the ones from the original N64 game) really were hurt with the new speed.  In those levels it seemed you could get from one end of the level to the other in less than a second.  Fighting with that little of a space with that much speed wasn't fun.

The whole game felt more complicated, and more frantic and chaotic at the same time...and chaotic is usually a good thing, but not in this case.  My friends stopped playing because it was too hard to tell what was going on in 4 Player games.  It wasn't fun, and we quickly went back to playing TimeSplitters 2/3 are our game of choice for multiplayer.  

That saddened me a great deal, because I loved playing the original Smash Brothers and thought it was always a fun multiplayer diversion.  Too bad, the sequel (for me and my friends) turned out to not bring the same thrills.

 

[Arbok]

Well, to each his own. For me and my friends, it has always been Melee since we first got. If there is any multiplayer gaming that's going to be done (although there has been much less of that since high school was over) it's either going to be a current flavor of the month game, or Melee.

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Originally posted by: Spak-Spang
However, some of the moving stages were almost unplayable...and you battled against the stage more than your opponents.

Isn't that part of the point? Personally, I don't care for the Ice Climber level much due to the way it's constructed, but the Rainbow Ride was great for its intended purpose as it added yet another very different way to play the game.

[R3ronaldo]

I hope they have Kalas from Baten kaitos

[Kairon]

For GOD'S SAKE!

... Look, we may all have our hang-ups but perhaps we can agree on ONE thing?

SSBB will be a better game WITH Sakurai heading it than without.

No matter your complaints, just imagine the game without Sakurai and be happy.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Arbok]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
SSBB will be a better game WITH Sakurai heading it than without.

No matter your complaints, just imagine the game without Sakurai and be happy.

I don't think anyone will argue that point. I was very worried when he left Nintendo a few years back, and couldn't imagine another game in the series without them. So, suffice to say, I was estatic when they annouced he would be directing the third.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Spak-Spang The whole game felt more complicated, and more frantic and chaotic at the same time...and chaotic is usually a good thing, but not in this case.  My friends stopped playing because it was too hard to tell what was going on in 4 Player games.  It wasn't fun, and we quickly went back to playing TimeSplitters 2/3 are our game of choice for multiplayer.  

That saddened me a great deal, because I loved playing the original Smash Brothers and thought it was always a fun multiplayer diversion.  Too bad, the sequel (for me and my friends) turned out to not bring the same thrills.

Spak, this and your post before it summarized my situation to the letter. If two people were in the room together, the N64 controllers came out and SSB was played, period. Melee has just never had that same pull.

On that note, they need to have an option to turn the screen shake OFF. When Pichu hits the ground, does the screen really need to oscillate back and forth a few times? It's as though SSBM emphasized glitz and speed over the gameplay that made its predecessor legendary.

And of course I'm happy to see Sakurai back. I like what I've heard from him already on the subject of changes being made to the game.

[Ceric]

I think Melee suffers from Jack-of-All-Trades Syndrome.  It wanted to be everything for everyone but in the end became something for everyone and everyone had a thorn in their side.  On thinking about it I agree the speed was too fast from the standpoint of it negated a lot of the new features.  Namely dodging.  They added a dodge system but I never bothered with dodging or even trying to hit things back because the moves where to hard to pull off with the speed everything was going.  Some weapons, Samus projectiles period, were just to slow to be truly effective.  It was like everyone was designed for a slightly different speed and at the last minute they upped it.

Now that I've said that.  Most of the time "Easier" means "Less Depth."  Melee had "easy to pick up but tough to master" play.  Basic moveset about anyone can pickup in a few rounds.  Dodges, the more convoluted special moves, and just truly tapping the full potential of the character took time and practice.  I still want that but from the information we know now I think they're going for a more theatrical approach this time.  Having battles that approach art.  That's all nice and everything but once you get over the Wow factor of something like that theres no real core of fun in art.  Theirs a core of art in art and art ain't happy.

[Smash_Brother]

I thought SSB was perfect. I remember we were still discovering things about the way the physics worked even after years of owning it.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon
For GOD'S SAKE!

... Look, we may all have our hang-ups but perhaps we can agree on ONE thing?

SSBB will be a better game WITH Sakurai heading it than without.

No matter your complaints, just imagine the game without Sakurai and be happy.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

That game would be called Shrek SuperSlam ::shudders::

[Strell]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

If two people were in the room together, the N64 controllers came out and SSB was played, period. Melee has just never had that same pull.

That's funny, 'cuz it's the same with me, only with Melee.

And I hereby decree my anecdotal evidence to be greater than yours.
 

[Smash_Brother]

I emulated SSB on our hacked Xbox tonight: I had forgotten just how great it was.

It feels a bit simpler, but the same novelty which made the game so great is very much alive and well.

I forgot how much I had missed some of these levels. Definitely going to be snagging SSB for the VC.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: Strell
That's funny, 'cuz it's the same with me, only with Melee.

And I hereby decree my anecdotal evidence to be greater than yours.

Oh snap!

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I forgot how much I had missed some of these levels. Definitely going to be snagging SSB for the VC.

Yes, I will never understand why the Yoshi Story level and the Kirby Dreamland ones were picked over Zelda's Castle for the classic stages.

[Infernal Monkey]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

On that note, they need to have an option to turn the screen shake OFF. When Pichu hits the ground, does the screen really need to oscillate back and forth a few times? It's as though SSBM emphasized glitz and speed over the gameplay that made its predecessor legendary.

Are you confusing 'glitz and speed' with 'graphical update and a frame rate that isn't as sluggish as a weeks supply of horse crap'?  

[Pale]

Man.  I completely disagree with ANYONE who thinks the original is better than Melee.

Have you played the original since Melee has been out?  Melee is one of the best games of all time.  Sounds to me like your friends are just FPS trend whores.  

[Spak-Spang]

I also question their choice in N64 levels kept.  They choose to keep Yoshi's Island and Donkey Kong...each which basically had an updated version of their design in the Melee form already.  

Pale:  If somebody was to ask me which is the better game Melee or the original I would completely say Melee.

My preference of the original over Melee is that I was actually able to play the original with my friends...and Melee I haven't had the luck.

[Ceric]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
I emulated SSB on our hacked Xbox tonight: I had forgotten just how great it was.

It feels a bit simpler, but the same novelty which made the game so great is very much alive and well.

I forgot how much I had missed some of these levels. Definitely going to be snagging SSB for the VC.

...And this was the last post Smash_Brother ever made.

The Joint Anti-Piracy Microsoft-Nintendo Strike Force who sole purpose is to stop the playing of Nintendo products on Hacked Microsoft products will soon take him away.  If you are playing Nes on your Modded XBox or maybe you have an Unlicensed Version of Windows Playing SNES titles.  They'll be there.  Using their advance weaponry and tactics to squish your coperate espionage.  As the motto of the JAPMN Strike Force is: "A non-pirated world is a happy world" and "If you mess with us we will mess you up, Read the Literature Fool!"  Soon they will derive moneys from the Sale of VC and XBLA sales much like the DOT runs off of Gas and Automobile Taxes.  So I pity the fool who messes with the JAPMN Strike Force and Associates and here you thought "Big Brother" was bad.

[Mario]

All the following quotes are Smash Brother

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Melee is all about reflex and I've never liked that. I still enjoy the game, of course, but I'm immensely glad to hear that Brawl will have its speed adjusted because I always thought Melee would be a better game if it ran at 75% of the current speed.

YOU ARE CRAP AT THE GAME. Why should everyone else have to suffer with a slower game for some kid who can't handle the pace?

It's a god damned fighting videogame. It's not turn based. You can't plan an attack when people are pounding you and throwing shit at you from all directions. Strategy can bite my left nut and stay in Advance Wars.

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IMHO, personal skill should be the ONLY aspect of a fight that matters.

Wait... contradiction! You just said what I said, I wish I read that earlier to save me some typing! Oh well, thanks anyway!

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The tiers make a colossal difference: I'm a sh*tty Fox player and an excellent Bowser player, but I can still lose with Bowser while I never lose with Fox because his speed just makes so much of a difference.

If Brawl could just resolve this, I'd be satisfied with the game.

That isn't for Brawl to resolve, it's for YOU to resolve.

Tiers. Don't make me laugh. The competitive SSBM playing community has to be most niche group of all time, hardly an indicator that some characters can not possibly win a tournament.

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Reasons SSBM was clearly rushed:

1. The texture on Roy's legs doesn't properly connect to his torso.

2. No actual "Random" button in the character select screen.

3. The character select screen in general was shoddy.

4. The CPU AI will not use certain moves, likely because the programmers did not have time to ensure that the AI wouldn't kill itself (JP's sleep, rollout, Yoshi's egg, etc.).

5. The tiers favor speed over all else, period.

1. You are the only person in the entire world who cares.

2. Is this just a flat out lie? I seem to recall choosing random characters quite often.

3. WTF do you expect? What's wrong with it? You choose your characters, simple as that. How is this related to the time of development as well? It's something that could be decided either way in 1 minute. Nobody cares.

4. As is the case with the original and every single AI in every single game ever made.

5. Tiers are only in YOUR HEAD.

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When a Game Over tournament (biggest SSBM tourney in the country) is won by a 'dorf player, or ANY player aside from Fox, Falco, Marth and Shiek, I'll reconsider.

Until then, the tiers clearly dictate that speed >>>>>>>>> all else.

People like you wont attempt it because apparently all the characters have already been labeled in "tiers", which only acts as a brick wall you hardcore SSBM players are fighting against.

ANYONE can win ANY match with ANY character. THIS IS A FACT! It is the ONLY fact. Tiers are entirely subjective. Why aren't you whinging about tiers in SSB? If anything SSBM corrected the mistakes in the rushed SSB, by toning down Pikachu and making Jigglypuff a bit more powerful.

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Of course, maybe this will open the door to downloadable tweaks and updates in brawl.

No thanks, I don't want every person with the game to have a different version of it. This isn't PC gaming where devs can release broken games and "fix" them through broken user feedback like yours.

In the end, you are whinging into a brick wall of FACTS. Like the fact that SSBM outsold SSB on a smaller userbase. That says more to Nintendo than anything anyone here ever could.

[18 Days]

My username is 18 Days and I endorse everything Mario said.

Seriously go play Street Fighter Smash Brother.

[Pale]

Mario, you are my hero.

[Infernal Monkey]

Post of the year.

[Ceric]

Too bad JAPMN got him.

[Dasmos]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mario
2. Is this just a flat out lie? I seem to recall choosing random characters quite often.

Actually there is no button, you can only choose random if you put the coin in the vacant area. This aspect alone warrants the game undesirable and totally unplayable. If this isn't fixed for Brawl, I will consider not purchasing the game and possibly even skip Wii all together.

[Kairon]

SSB is perfect. SSBM is fine.

Ooh, and now I get to be all mean and hurtful like a b.net kid! Watch:

"Cry more n00b. Lern 2 play."

Whew! That was fun!

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com  

[Requiem]

You realize SSB was so damn slow because of the framerate right? If it was locked-in at a solid 30 FPS, it would have played A-HELL-OF-ALOT faster.


Deal with it...