Screens

Talkback

PeachylalaSeptember 09, 2009

Depends, how well did Sonic: Unfun sell on the 360/PS3?

And to compare, Sonic and the Black Knight?

NinGurl69 *hugglesSeptember 09, 2009

http://twitter.com/sonicnotforwii

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterSeptember 09, 2009

I'm am very interested! Sonic Knuckles and Tails only please! Let 2 players be playable at the same time. The second player could be on the DS as tails, and if he gets lost he can find his own way back via the DS.

What is that character? Doesnt look like Sonic to me.

NinGurl69 *hugglesSeptember 09, 2009

Most likely Vampire Amy.

BlackNMild2k1September 09, 2009

Quote from: Caterkiller

What is that character? Doesnt look like Sonic to me.

You talking about the pic in the OP?
http://i26.tinypic.com/16llpo9.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/3168dhi.jpg
Because it looks like Sonic to me.

KDR_11kSeptember 09, 2009

I'll file this under the Sonic circle for now. Anyone can show some old Sonicy graphics, making a GAME that's good is a completely different matter.

EasyCureSeptember 09, 2009

I never woulda guessed it was Sonic just by looking at the pic, then again I've never been a fan enough to recognize that as a logo of sorts.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterSeptember 09, 2009

Thanks Blackbeard, I was waiting for someone to do that. I thought if someone just compared an old picture with this it would look alright.

Things that MUST be included in this game:
Momentum! There needs to be build up to get through most loops!
Badnicks! Caterkillers, Buzzbombers, anything that looks like an animal robot and lots of em!
3 playable characters. Sonic, Tails, Knuckles along with some form of co-op.
No super blast attack that lets you run through enemies like Super Sonic.
Perfect control!

What I miss?

EasyCureSeptember 09, 2009

Quote from: Caterkiller

What I miss?

Attitude  8) :thumbsup;

NinGurl69 *hugglesSeptember 09, 2009

It's also not a Wii game.

EasyCureSeptember 09, 2009

Quote from: NinGurl69

It's also not a Wii game.

HD Attitude?

BlackNMild2k1September 09, 2009

WiiHD in 2010!!!!

http://i27.tinypic.com/2dgmi54.gif

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterSeptember 09, 2009

Look what IssunZX showed me!

http://www.needlemouse.com/

Ian SaneSeptember 09, 2009

I don't think bringing Sonic back into 2D is the cure to Sonic's ails.  Sonic Adventure was 3D and that game was pretty good.

Let's examine some of the really sucky things that have shown up in recent Sonic games.
- Endless amount of new characters no one likes
- Shadow the Hedgehog with a GUN!!!
- Sonic kissing a human woman

Which of these incredibly STUPID ideas required Sonic to be in 3D?  Maybe none?  You could still make a 2D Sonic game but the second you have a cartoon bat with cleavage being referred to as "sexy" in a rap in the game's background music, sorry, the suck train just pulled into town.  Sonic Adventure 2 is clearly where things started to slip and that was entirely because instead of playing Sonic levels with Sonic style gameplay you were forced to play as other stupid characters with gameplay that was completely different and not done very well.

And is moving to 2D going to fix poor level design or unresponsive controls or chuggy framerates or all other technical goofs and glitches that Sonic games have?  I think the key to fixing Sonic is to take him away from Sonic Team.  They're incompetent and they have dumb ideas.  The portable Sonic games that worked were not just 2D but also made by a different dev.

Luigi DudeSeptember 09, 2009

I honestly doubt Sonic Team will get it right since they've been saying for years now that every Sonic game will take Sonic back to his roots and each time they fail.  Of course it quite simple why, the key people who made the old Sonic games no longer work at Sega and as a result, the current Sonic Team doesn't even know how to really take Sonic back to his roots.

For anyone that doesn't know, the creation of Sonic was the result of 3 men, Naoto Oshima, Hirokazu Yasuhara, and Yuji Naka, and all three are no longer with Sega.  Even though Yuji Naka loves to take all the credit because he's an asshat hack, Yasuhara is the man that is truly responsible for Sonic's greatness.  All Yuji Naka did was program the games, while Yasuhara was the guy that designed the actual stages the Genesis Sonics.  Of course Oshima also deserves a lot of credit since while he was only the character designer for the first Genesis Sonic, he would go on to become the director and stage designer for Sonic CD.


This right here is the main reason why Mario games are still just as good while series like Sonic have fallen.  The main people who made the Mario series like Miyamoto and Tezuka are not only still working and helping out, but also growing talent like Koizumi who was in charge of Galaxy's development and played the biggest role in that game.  So even if Miyamoto or Tezuka were to leave Nintendo, Koizuma has shown with Galaxy that he has the ability to keep the series going.

Sega on the other hand has no veterans to help guide Sonic Team, and they never bothered to really grow any new talent either.

steveySeptember 10, 2009

If my inner Sega fanboy was still alive he would say:

"YES YES YES OH GOD YESS~~~~!!!!"

too bad he's in a comma..... I rooting for you.


All I want is a New Super Mario Bros. style New Sonic. I doubt I'll get it considering that the best sonic game I've played in the last 7 years was a Homebrew SegaCD game. :'(

AVSeptember 10, 2009

first pic:

http://fc04.deviantart.com/fs36/f/2008/258/f/1/Aquatic_Run_by_Orioto.jpg

( not really its cool wallpaper , but that would be amazing if they did )

KDR_11kSeptember 10, 2009

Yeah, the primary failing of modern Sonic is shitty level design (and I think it's a problem with modern 2D Sonics too), it doesn't matter if you've got tons of characters as long as the levels are fun, what hurt many of the new characters is that they've got retarded levels ("go fishing").

PeachylalaSeptember 10, 2009

Right now, clock this game in the blue area of the Sonic Cycle. We have no idea what it looks like, hype is building, we are looking forward to it.

Quote:

Even though Yuji Naka loves to take all the credit because he's an asshat hack, Yasuhara is the man that is truly responsible for Sonic's greatness.

The true fathers of Sonic are Naoto Oshima and Hirokazu Yasuhara. Yuji Naka was more like the drunk uncle that beat him.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterSeptember 11, 2009

I have visited several message boards, and even Sonic only forums where it seemed like they used to love everything that was Sonic. But even now they are slamming the game before it is even shown slightly. You gotta wonder, do Sega employees see these message boards? You know they do, and what must they be thinking?  I am giving this game a chance (yeah I know Seret Rings was supposed to be my last straw, then I wound up getting unleashed and gave it away half way through) but I really don't expect to get blown away in any way shape or form.

Can't we all just every now and then throw the idea out there that Nintendo should somehow develop the next Sonic? If we say it enough it just might come true! Though I know nintendo could care less.

Would you let Nintendo make one Sonic game, but Sega had to make one Mario game? Thats toying with the devil now, but what would you say to that?

thatguySeptember 11, 2009

I agree with you, Caterkiller, not specifically about Nintendo, but with the idea to hand Sonic away for a game or two.

Really, it's unnecessary, but it's likely one of the only ways you'd get the developer to take a look at the original Sonic games, and just those, from the Genesis/Megadrive.  Sega has mostly forgotten about them, though maybe not with this teaser and that Sonic emblem, but until now, it seems like all the Sonic devs had just had the word "speed" written on a piece of paper as their basic Sonic concept, and then just felt like following it up with whatever twist they'd throw in, regardless of original ideas.

PeachylalaSeptember 12, 2009

As said, Yasuhara is no longer at Sonic Team (he left after Sonic T-Ragedy was gutted). His level designs made Sonic 2 & 3/K fun, and there were multiple paths through each level.

Yet Sega of Japan hates Sonic, and will continue to whip Sonic Team into making more Sonic games because they can for the sake of money.

Nintendo can always lure away Yasuhara to help make a Sonic game...?

Smash_BrotherSeptember 12, 2009

I'm on "wait and see" status with this one as well.

PeachylalaSeptember 12, 2009

I'm going to be intrigued by this game only if the Secret Rings team is developing it.

If not, forget it.

PlugabugzSeptember 12, 2009

Quote from: Peachylala

I'm going to be intrigued by this game only if the Secret Rings team is developing it.

If not, forget it.

That game featured rock music and waggle stiff enough for me to have to shake the wii remote into dust.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterSeptember 13, 2009

Secret rings biggest problem was that the stages were too hard sometimes, and getting to the next stage was tough because of the challenges. Enemies were absolutely everywhere, made some of those darn near impossible.

I just want Nintendo to make Sonic, even if they did something like Sonic Sunshine, or Sonic Galaxy it would be more Sonic than anything that has been done since Heroes.

I've been reading fan requests since SA2. I remember fans wanting to see the Chaotix again, Metal Sonic and nothing but running stages! And in Heroes we got just that! And it wasn't that great! It wasnt totaly bad only because I got every emblem in that game and stuck through it. 

Sonic 2006 promised to return to Sonics roots, and went from only Sonic to every character imaginable, and was just downright aweful. I remember reading message boards with people wanting the graphics to be amazing, with a mature story line! How dumb can some fans get? They got just what they wanted.

Then Unleashed! We got our 2D sonic, sort of. And a warewolf, who in the heck wanted that? I still stick by my prediction that heroes was just a way for Sega to borrow from Sunshines different Fludd systems except shodily done. Then Sega copied TP and turned Sonic in to a Wolf! But hey we only got Sonic! It's exactly what many fans wanted.

If this can stay 2d or 2.5D it will be great. To look at, at least. But there can't be boost pads everywhere and that auto dash kill anything move, its just too much! Sonic, Knuckles, Tails only to complete the game please! And for goodness sakes! Get creative and make more than 3 different types of bad guys! I want to see Robot butterflies, lizards, snails, and crabs again!

MaxiSeptember 13, 2009

Have you tried Black Knight Caterkiller?

steveySeptember 13, 2009


GS: What can you tell us about the game?

KB: I can tell you it’s a brand new 2D adventure coming out in 2010, it’s in HD, and to definitely stay tuned.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterSeptember 13, 2009

Didn't play Black Knight, I want to but im waiting until the price drop. Just mad no playable Tails. Pluss I got unleashed, enjoyed the Sonic stages, but could not get through 8 minutes at a time Werehog. So I gave the game away.

Shadow the Hedghog was the worst piece of Shnitzel I have ever played!!!!!!!

PeachylalaSeptember 13, 2009

No playable Tails made me =( in Black Knight. Knuckles made up for it.

Blaze, Shadow and Silver just took up un-needed space.

KDR_11kSeptember 13, 2009

The Werehog was added because it would just have been a 3 hour game otherwise and Sega didn't want to accept that.

PeachylalaSeptember 13, 2009

Exactly.

But instead of designing something good, they designed something awful.

Luigi DudeSeptember 13, 2009

Quote from: KDR_11k

The Werehog was added because it would just have been a 3 hour game otherwise and Sega didn't want to accept that.

This is why I don't see how Sonic Team is going to be able to make a proper 2d Sonic game.  They have a problem making short games so they pad them full of unnecessary crap like Werehog, or Treasure Hunting or even Fishing.  But the 2d Sonic games are all between 2-3 hours to complete though. 

Considering Sonic Teams track record, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up introducing something non-Sonic related into this game as well just to eat up time once again.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterSeptember 13, 2009

I say include another Chao system and call it a day. At least then everyone could accept it, as long as its not mandatory.

KDR_11kSeptember 13, 2009

Quote from: Luigi

Quote from: KDR_11k

The Werehog was added because it would just have been a 3 hour game otherwise and Sega didn't want to accept that.

This is why I don't see how Sonic Team is going to be able to make a proper 2d Sonic game.  They have a problem making short games so they pad them full of unnecessary crap like Werehog, or Treasure Hunting or even Fishing.  But the 2d Sonic games are all between 2-3 hours to complete though. 

Considering Sonic Teams track record, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up introducing something non-Sonic related into this game as well just to eat up time once again.

You know, they could just make use of the modern team sizes and make an EPIC sized 2D Sonic with tile based graphics and all that jazz but like 80 levels or so. You've got a fucking huge budget these days compared to back then so it would be possible.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterSeptember 13, 2009

Wether some of you like it or not SA2 Sonic's stages were the first real don't stop just go stages that are trying to be continued in todays games. Only thing is in SA2 it was well done, and I know most of you don't think so, you had a good sense of control running through those stages. If I could just upload some of those videos of how I played that game I think some of you would see what I meant.

It's just now the the 2D games are trying to do that and it just doesn't work as well when its too fast and there are zippers all over the place. There needs to be moments when Sonic needs to jump up and up and up and up to reach something cool, maybe not ultra fast but still platformy fun. There needs to be those times when you see something and then you can just stop if you want to. But the layouts of the stages don't really permit that now a'days.

2.5D I think is the best possible option. For one Sonic can run fast and still have a better view of whats in front of him, because being in complete profile the entire time is tough for a speedy game. It wasn't bad at all for the Genesis games because they weren't nearly as fast as todays games. They had their moments of course like Sonic leaving the screen in Chemicle Plant but they were nothing like the "auto super sonic attacks" that we have now. You know just run through every bad guy at light speed and miss everything what so ever. God do I hate that. 

If its 2D - 2.5D making it appear 3D but its very linear than it just makes then easier to control and easier to navigate.

redgiementalSeptember 13, 2009

The less speedy genesis version of Sonic was better for gameplay they should go back to that.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterSeptember 13, 2009

I just can't drop this topic, i'll be talking to myself in moment but here is another thing I want to point out.

In the Gamespot interview the guy being enterviewed had this to say.

"KB: Personally, the games that first come to mind are the Sonic Legacy titles, (Sonic 1, 2, 3, & Knuckles), Sonic Adventure, Sonic Rush, and Sonic’s speed in Sonic Unleashed. I think each of those games did a great job at propelling the series forward to a new generation, both visually and in terms of gameplay."

The fact that he brought up 1,2,3, and knuckles gives me a but of hope in that maybe they will use those games for some kind of direction.

thatguySeptember 14, 2009

Well, sure, but he makes the common mistake that the gameplay in Rush and Unleashed hold a candle to the legacy titles.

EasyCureSeptember 14, 2009

It amazes me that people still like Sonic enough to keep a thread like this going. It seems like you all agree that the last few sonic games pretty much sucked, yet you keep holding out hope..

Perhaps I just don't get it because i've never been that big a fan of sonic. To be honest, i've never even played the 3d ones anyway so I can't judge the games, but everyones impressions keep me from every trying so... yeah, wow, two pages of Sonic discussion.

PeachylalaSeptember 14, 2009

No, Black Knight was good (as it's own stand-alone game). The rest sucked. You can thank Yuji Naka for that, or Takashi Iizuka, whatever floats your boat.

Flames_of_chaosLukasz Balicki, Staff AlumnusSeptember 14, 2009

Quote from: Peachylala

No, Black Knight was good (as it's own stand-alone game). The rest sucked. You can thank Yuji Naka for that, or Takashi Iizuka, whatever floats your boat.

Yuji Naka hasn't been on Sonic Team for a few years now, he now works for Prope who created Let's Tap and Let's Catch.

BlackNMild2k1September 14, 2009

Quote from: EasyCure

It amazes me that people still like Sonic enough to keep a thread like this going. It seems like you all agree that the last few sonic games pretty much sucked, yet you keep holding out hope..

Perhaps I just don't get it because i've never been that big a fan of sonic. To be honest, i've never even played the 3d ones anyway so I can't judge the games, but everyones impressions keep me from every trying so... yeah, wow, two pages of Sonic discussion.

4r49pg.jpg

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterJanuary 10, 2010

Bumpidy bump! (Fixed)

Well it seems this is going to be a downloadable game! Thats right, you wont have to pay 50 bucks for this! Excited or angry? I just hope it's still full blown. Though doesn't seem like it since it's not being released in stores for the full price. Read this from Gonintendo.

"Here's a little bit of news concerning Sonic's return to 2d with Project Needlemouse. SEGA's Constantine Hantzopoulos confirmed to the 1up gang that Project Needlemouse is indeed a downloadable title. The problem is, he didn't say what platforms it would be hitting. He also happened to mention that this is a smaller title, but didn't really clarify what 'smaller' meant in those regards. Finally, Mr. Hantzopoulos does reference PSN/XBLA in regards to downloadable games in general, but doesn't make a connection to Project Needlemouse. Well, now our only hope is WiiWare, and things aren't looking too likely."

Link http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=109673

For one, at least it was stated that it would have HD graphics or something like that, so i'm sure there wont be any mega man 9 treatments. But I would hope the game is at least as long as Sonic 1, 2, or 3&knuckles together. And if its 2D please of please give us some co-op.

Then again who cares right? Wii might not even be seeing the title.


KDR_11kJanuary 10, 2010

DLC means a downloadable addon for a game, not a downloadable game by itself.

DAaaMan64January 10, 2010

I loved SA2, and me and my friend can blow the stages really fast.  I feel perfectly in control.

I played black night, and hated it, same with Secret Rings, and Unleashed was mediocre.

NinGurl69 *hugglesJanuary 11, 2010

The best sonik game is Rabbids Go Home.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterJanuary 11, 2010

Update from www.ignwii.com

January 11, 2010 - SEGA has begun teasing the characters it plans to include in its next Sonic title, currently being called Project Needlemouse. Over the course of this week, SEGA will stamp-out some of the characters below who won't be making the cut, with the final cast being revealed this Friday.

SEGA's official blog will be running a contest for fans to get involved.

Details on Project Needlemouse are slim, but we do know it'll be a return to Sonic's 2D greatness. "Speed returns in an all new 2D adventure built from the ground up," the teaser trailer read.


http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/105/1059923/needlemosue_1263236362.jpg

Look at those stupid names! Are we already in the second phaze of the cycle? Mr Needle Mouse was Sonic years ago, so maybe they just redisgned him to be completely new. If so he would be the only one to make the cut. My hopes is that they all get stamped out, and only Sonic, Tails and Knuckles are introduced later. Why are they not on that list? This is already starting like crap.

vuduJanuary 11, 2010

Quote from: Caterkiller

Look at those stupid names! Are we already in the second phaze of the cycle? Mr Needle Mouse was Sonic years ago, so maybe they just redisgned him to be completely new. If so he would be the only one to make the cut. My hopes is that they all get stamped out, and only Sonic, Tails and Knuckles are introduced later. Why are they not on that list? This is already starting like crap.

I think the hope is that by the end of the week everyone gets stamped out and only Sonic remains.

NinGurl69 *hugglesJanuary 11, 2010

No no no no, the game they're teasing must be something like Daytona USA or Outrun.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterJanuary 11, 2010

Quote from: vudu

Quote from: Caterkiller

Look at those stupid names! Are we already in the second phaze of the cycle? Mr Needle Mouse was Sonic years ago, so maybe they just redisgned him to be completely new. If so he would be the only one to make the cut. My hopes is that they all get stamped out, and only Sonic, Tails and Knuckles are introduced later. Why are they not on that list? This is already starting like crap.

I think the hope is that by the end of the week everyone gets stamped out and only Sonic remains.

Maybe this is a clever ploy by Sega to get fans like me so worked up and angry, only to reveal that only the Sonic and/or the Big 3 are available to play. That would be nice.

vuduJanuary 11, 2010

Quote from: Caterkiller

Maybe this is a clever ploy by Sega to get fans like me so worked up and angry, only to reveal that only the Sonic and/or the Big 3 are available to play. That would be nice.

See!  We're still in the first phase of the cycle!  ;D

PeachylalaJanuary 12, 2010

My hype settings for this game are very low. Very, very low.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterJanuary 15, 2010

I know I'm the only one who cares and keeping this thread somewhat alive but look!

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/106/1061465/characters_1263583729.jpg


Sonic is the only stupid idiot in this game! Isn't that great! And if that doesn't scream things are getting better, then how about this!?

http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/106/1061465/480_1263583627.jpg

Come on now! You old school fans have to go up at least 2 points in excitement, even if your way down to -50.

My opinion is that Sonic will not be the only character, but more will be unlockable as extras. But they are completely out right saying Sonic is alone, which means the entire game should be able to be completed with him and only him! Come on, I know some is excited around here!

BlackNMild2k1January 16, 2010

I know I started the thread and all, but I've never been much of a sonic fan considering I only owned a Genesis for about 10 days before I gave it away (I got it for free, thought I would pass it on) and never actually owned a sonic game (even though I have played most of the 2-D ones and gotten pretty far in them too).

But if Sonic is getting back to what made him popular in the first place (NSMBW) and that is gonna provide us with a game that isn't a complete departure from what Sonic means to all the people that have grown up with him, then I'm all for it.

But honestly, I think the major reason for non-excitement is that we don't even know if it's coming to Wii and with all the 3rd Party "Wii makes us Waahh!!!" talk, we not sure if we should even anticipate it coming until we know more.

With that being said, 2D Sonic would have no better home than on the Wii where all the nostalgic players that would appreciate his venture back into 2D dwell. NSTHH

KDR_11kJanuary 16, 2010

The problem with Sonic is not so much that he has friends (Blaze in Sonic Rush had no negative effect, played exactly like Sonic) but that Sega has no fucking clue how to make proper Sonic levels anymore. I believe Sonic also suffers from the ability to save since Sonic stages are designed to be explored in multiple ways and many speed sequences can only be meaningfully influenced if you know what's ahead of you, with saves you don't replay a level unless artificially forced to.

PeachylalaJanuary 16, 2010

Watch this game implode due to quality control. Sega of Japan will never fail at it!

SixthAngelJanuary 16, 2010

Quote from: KDR_11k

The problem with Sonic is not so much that he has friends (Blaze in Sonic Rush had no negative effect, played exactly like Sonic) but that Sega has no ****ing clue how to make proper Sonic levels anymore.

I agree.  I played Rush because game sites said it was a good return to the roots, bullshit.  Most levels involve holding down boost for an insane amount of time while you plow through enemy after enemy.  People are really confusing marketing with the actual games.  The commercials said he could go fast but in most of the game you weren't actually running as fast as you could.

I have no faith in Sega anymore and I think they used to be better than Nintendo at making games.

PeachylalaJanuary 17, 2010

Their in-house politics were hilarious.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterJanuary 17, 2010

Here are some quotes which are actually very promising. From the official Sega Blog Site.

This first quote I saw on the 11th interested me somewhat but I didn't think too much of it. But then I thought "hmmm, well they did underline it, and acknowlege that the old games were all about it, and not just zippers."

Jan 11th
"Remember: It’s all about momentum. This statement holds as true with this challenge as it did in the Sonic games that many of us grew up playing. Fans across the world will need to work together and spread the word if you want to succeed. So build up strong now, because the ending is going to be a challenge!"

Jan 13th
"Fantastic work – looks like some people were paying attention to that momentum comment we made."

As the days went on more and more people commented on that momentum comment. Us older fans know momentum is a huge part of it, and Sega officialy responded with the comment above. As far as im concerned that is a huge 1-up in my book.

Along with the concept art they had this to say.

Jan 15th
"This art reveals an enemy from the game – but at the same time, it also reveals much more about the spirit, and direction, that Project Needlemouse is taking."

The spirit, and direction. No lame generic Eggman robots everywhere, momemtum a huge possibility in the actual gameplay and absolutely no new characters introduced or playable otherwise. Which going by their wording Tails and Knuckles could very well be hidden extras. But these quotes really do give me a sense of hope.

I know most of us are completely jaded, with the last outings Sonic has had, but so far things are looking very very good. The only thing we have to hope for now is no gimmicks to be revealed. No swords, no ware wolves, no crap!

About that crab enemy, it's called a Shell Cracker, remember that crab that shot out it's arm in Metropolis Zone in Sonic 2? I'm wondering will they be completely revisiting older enemies and/or locations? Oh how I would love for some of you to truely know what a caterkiller is.

steveyJanuary 17, 2010

Watch it be an unoriginal HD sonic 1 remake

thatguyJanuary 17, 2010

I'm not happy with the marketing of this.  I know, I know, it seems to be exactly what I'm clamoring for.

That's a classic enemy.  Sonic gameplay, with possible Tails and Knuckles inclusion.  2D gameplay.  It's likely going to follow the original Genesis titles.

But who didn't see the whole "List a lot of characters, then say none are in the game" gag coming?  I feel like I'm being patronized.  I'm glad they released the Badnik art, but truthfully, wouldn't a few more pieces of promo/concept art have been a bit more welcome than what they did here?

I'd just rather be sold on the idea that Sega knows what legacy Sonic is, rather than sold on the idea that "Sega knows what other people say Sonic needs to be."  The art helps with that, but this whole event, otherwise, doesn't.

KDR_11kJanuary 18, 2010

Just because they know what Sonic is supposed to be about doesn't mean they know how to do it right.

thatguyJanuary 18, 2010

...It's a step closer to what they've done in the past several years.

KDR_11kJanuary 18, 2010

A step in a journey of a thousand miles. They still haven't left Failtown.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterJanuary 28, 2010

OK a new update. I wish I could take control of this to update the first page. Not that anyone but me and IssunXZ really have hope.

http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/01/27/project-needlemouse-community-challenge-2-new-concept-art-and-a-very-special-reward/#more-3959

First off, you guys NEED to read this quote from the blog just incase you don't click the link. It is this quote that can truely take us back to the old days of physics and momentum.

In closing, some parting thoughts that expand on some comments we made in the last blog:

Speed is something that is not given; but rather earned through dedication. Speed is not found by simply pushing a boost button, but by building momentum. It is the reward for skill in the face of difficult challenges – this kind of speed is the most exhilarating, not only because it is fast, but because of the pure perfection such speed exemplifies. This is the truth of the original Sonic games – and this is the truth of Project Needlemouse.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/4309916425_bd4308916d.jpg




Good luck, everyone!

Sega wants to see 100 fan drawings of concept art of previous bad nicks. If they get it by Monday they will give extra info about the game. Or maybe they'll just do it regardless. But come on guys, this is great news! This game is on the right track! Momentum! Momentum! Speed is earned!

BlackNMild2k1January 28, 2010

I'll tell you what, you put together an all inclusive post formatted for the OP(pics are a plus) and I'll update the OP with all the info you want.

PeachylalaJanuary 28, 2010

The SEGA blog people have just the same amount of false hope as Sonic fans do.

They just mix the term 'fruitcake' and 'stupid fuckwad' together to make... 'stupid fruit fuck cake wad'...?

Even making fun of the hopeless Sonic fanbase makes you do moronic things.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterJanuary 28, 2010

Will DO BlackNMild! But on monday when there should be lots more info about the game. Including that it's not on wii or our version is done by a lesser company.

The Blog says they will give super extra info if they get concept art in a really odd fashion. I am going to be supplying a Metal Sonic made completely out of twisty ties. Not my creation but a friend of mine nerds out on them, and they are really good.

thatguyJanuary 28, 2010

Watch it just be an HD remake of the original game.  I'd definitely believe that.

PeachylalaJanuary 29, 2010

Watch it be a BROKEN HD remake. Remember the GBA 'remake' a few years back?

Quote from: thatguy

Watch it just be an HD remake of the original game.  I'd definitely believe that.

That would still be the best Sonic game in 15 years.

Well, unless...

Quote from: Peachylala

Watch it be a BROKEN HD remake. Remember the GBA 'remake' a few years back?

KDR_11kJanuary 29, 2010

Looks to me like they went through forums and are now saying things that seem to match what people say there. Words are cheap. So are instakill traps.

Well, if it's not just the PR people paying attention to the complaints but the developers as well, then that could be good. Then again, giving people what they say they want isn't always the best strategy.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterJanuary 29, 2010

Quote from: insanolord

Well, if it's not just the PR people paying attention to the complaints but the developers as well, then that could be good. Then again, giving people what they say they want isn't always the best strategy.

That is true, last time that happened we got SOnic Heroes. Checkered hill sides? Check! Nothing but running stages? Check! Chaotix back? Check! Metal Sonic? Check! And what a load of crap that turned out to be.

But the fact is as more and more of these crappy games were released people started to understand what Sonic really needed and started to cry about that. Momentum was a huge issue for the fans in the know. And not just pressing a button to go faster! That should be super Sonic only type stuff. And they are completely listening to that at least! Which means, we most likely wont have a non stop Sonic Rush wannabe.

KDR_11kJanuary 29, 2010

Even if they copy the game engine from Sonic 2 exactly they'll still have to design stages for it.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterJanuary 29, 2010

Yeah but now they have to design stages with Momentum based challenges! Not just boosters everywhere. My expectations are still low, despite me being excited, but I do have actual hope for this game.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterFebruary 01, 2010

http://blogs.sega.com/usa/2010/01/29/the-needlemouse-challenge-part-ii-updates-and-featured-art/

That makes all of us – including, hopefully, you guys – very happy. The challenge has been bested within 48 hours, and as a result next week is going to be the Week of the Hedgehog! The celebration will begin next Tuesday on Hedgehog Day, (step aside, groundhog!) with a special massive swag giveaway and concept art reveal, and will lead into our biggest announcement going live as we approach next weekend. Trust us when we say that February is going to be a very good month.
Now then – to celebrate your success, we’d like to offer you guys additional rewards for continuing to send in your concept art – and some very awesome concept art, at that! So,for every 50 pieces of Concept Art (past 100), we will give away one extra piece of Sonic Merchandise during our Hedgehog Day giveaway!
Oh, and as another bonus, let’s go ahead and dispel away a little rumor that we’ve noticed in the comments:

Project Needlemouse is not an HD version of Sonic 1. These may be old badniks, but when we said all-new adventure, we meant it. http://blogs.sega.com/usa/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

Aint no remake says them. I'll make an all inclusive first post come tuesday when all the good info is released. Some speculate that this could be titled Sonic the Hedgehog 4, due to some odd servers being found. I'll include all of that later as well.

The concept art is cool, too bad I couldnt get ahold of my friend with the metal sonic.

PeachylalaFebruary 01, 2010

Quote from: Caterkiller

Yeah but now they have to design stages with Momentum based challenges! Not just boosters everywhere. My expectations are still low, despite me being excited, but I do have actual hope for this game.

Do not have any hope for this game. Just because the blog people are saying some amazing things, they still work for Sega. It's false hype and nothing else.

They are not capable of designing a good Sonic game anymore.

steveyFebruary 01, 2010

Quote from: stevey

Watch it be an unoriginal HD sonic 1 remake

Quote from: SEGA]Project



Right... Watch it be just an unoriginal HD ROM hack type remake of the first game with canned and rejected levels thrown in.

PeachylalaFebruary 01, 2010

2-D Sonic games of late have been exactly that: canned and rejected levels thrown in.

KDR_11kFebruary 01, 2010

Apparently Sega registered sonicthehedgehog4.com, looks like Sonic is looking for a rematch against the main Mario series. Watch him get obliterated.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterFebruary 02, 2010

Music from the game and vegetation art work as shown up. With the title to be revealed soon. But its impossible to navigate the site cuase blasted Sonic fans wont get off the blasted page!

http://www.sega.com/

Thats actual music from the game. Sounds too old school if you ask me. Thats even super retro for wiiware.

BlackNMild2k1February 03, 2010

save us the headache and post pics.

print screen ->  ms paint -> edit and then save as -> tinypic.com

if necessary.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterFebruary 03, 2010

Tried to put the quotes in quotes, but I only made a mess of things, kept bleeding into everything.

Project Needle Mouse http://blogs.sega.com/usa/category/project-needlemouse/

To hear a few seconds of music from the game click this link. http://www.sega.com/ you might be confused, but it is the music that sounds like it was made on a 16 bit system.

The final name is set to be announced tomorrow on the 4th. Sega blogs claims it must be announced on that day, along with registered websites fans have come to the conclusion that his game will be titled
Sonic the Hedgehog 4. Mighty big shoes to fill.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4052/4276408713_b15c435ef1_o.jpg

" In Project Needlemouse, there will be no new characters – playable or otherwise. The focus will remain solely on one blue hedgehog. If you’re now the most overjoyed person in the world, or even if you’re still curious about more, let us know in the comments below!"

My opinion? Tails and Knuckles will be unlockable/downloadable content.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2713/4276408701_82bfe71a84.jpg
Shell Cracker from Sonic 2.

"This art reveals an enemy from the game – but at the same time, it also reveals much more about the spirit, and direction, that Project Needlemouse is taking."



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4044/4309916425_bd4308916d.jpg

"Speed is something that is not given; but rather earned through dedication. Speed is not found by simply pushing a boost button, but by building momentum. It is the reward for skill in the face of difficult challenges – this kind of speed is the most exhilarating, not only because it is fast, but because of the pure perfection such speed exemplifies. This is the truth of the original Sonic games – and this is the truth of Project Needlemouse. "

^ That right there says it all! ^


"When you’re making a 2D Sonic game, there are some things you’ll almost always need if you want to recapture the feeling of the classics. While momentum based gameplay is a heavy piece of that, the levels themselves also have to exude a style that matches or improves upon what came before them. Often, it is not about attempting to revolutionize, but rather to stay true to the formulas for Sonic’s success that already exist.
The zones themselves – and their environments – do more to immerse players into the world than we might notice at first. Today, we’d like to present two pieces of such concept art, which we hope bring smiles to your faces. Let’s start with a classic:"


http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2705/4325445765_6f04476638.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2778/4326183302_e0b0b48368.jpg


"While we know that these two pieces of concept art may literally only be a sunflower and a palm tree, and aren’t exactly the most action-packed pictures you’ve seen this year, they express a spirit of the game that we feel is even more important. From Badniks to Zones, there are some things that mean a lot simply because they exist within a game."

"Oh, and as another bonus, let’s go ahead and dispel away a little rumor that we’ve noticed in the comments:
Project Needlemouse is not an HD version of Sonic 1. These may be old badniks, but when we said all-new adventure, we meant it."

Interview With Gamespot - This will be a Wiiware downloadable game!
http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/sonicthehedgehog4episode1/news.html?sid=6249445&tag=topslot;title;1&mode=previews

GameSpot: Why did you choose to go with a title like Sonic 4? Does this mean this is a direct sequel to the Genesis games?
Ken Balough: I think one aspect to keep in mind is this game is truly a labor of love. A lot of us grew up on the Sega Genesis console; in fact, I remember vividly the first day I got mine with Revenge of Shinobi and Moonwalker. Ever since Sonic & Knuckles, Sonic the Hedgehog 4 has been a game classic Sega fans have always wanted to see. It was the right people, at the right time, getting together and finally making this game we've all wanted to see.
While the game is a brand-new adventure, it will definitely pick up after Sonic & Knuckles. However, what you are looking at is the beginning of a new story arc.
GS: The subtitle is Episode 1. Does this mean it's episodic content?
KB: As mentioned, I think the best way to view it is as a first part in a much larger adventure. When Sega released Sonic 3, ultimately it was the part 1 of a story that saw its conclusion in Sonic & Knuckles. In that same spirit, Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is a bigger story, and this is that first chapter. I think it's also safe to say that by the end of the episode one, fans will be very excited to see what's in store for episode two!
GS: Why did you decide to make this a downloadable title?
KB: In recent years, we've seen a huge surge of classic game properties making a return in this arena. games offer players a chance to play terrific games without breaking the bank. It's also a promise to Sonic fans. We're going to deliver a Genesis-era Sonic game as if it were created today that goes to the core of what classic Sonic fans desire. This means gets to judge us on our work each step of the way, and we plan on delivering that goal in a big way.
GS: In terms of graphics, the game appears to use 3D graphics. Why take that route instead of an HD makeover or a more traditional approach like Capcom's recent Mega Man games?
KB: One of our goals was to make a gorgeous-looking 2D Sonic game. This approach allows fans new and old to see what a 2D Genesis-style game would look like today with modern graphics.
GS: As far as gameplay goes, should we expect classic old-school Sonic 2D mechanics or something new added into the mix?
KB: All the Sonic favorites here for sure! Spin dash, power sneakers, etc. But you will also see the homing attack added, and in true Sonic fashion, you can compete with your friends for the fastest level times through leaderboards.
GS: What can we expect from the music? Will it sound like the old Sonic games?
KB: It will sound like an evolution from the original series. Expect to hear very familiar tempos and styles of music that resonates with 16-bit games but also has a modern appeal.
GS: Will there be any differences between the different versions? That is, will the Wii have motion control, or will the PS3 and 360 run at 1080p?
KB: For all intents and purposes, the games are designed to be identical. There are a few differences per what each console can output visually: Wii will be at 480p, while the XBLA and PSN versions will run at 1080p. However, for certain areas of the game, the Wii will be able to use motion control, and the PS3 will be able to use the Sixaxis.
GS: Is this where the Sonic franchise is moving, or can we still expect to see console and portable titles?
KB: Sonic as a brand is definitely not moving away from our packaged console versions. Making Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I for download is just a new way to offer a great Sonic experience through a different medium.
GS: Thanks for your time, Ken.

BlackNMild2k1February 03, 2010

But is it a HD game is what we want to know.

Then 3/4th of us can either stop caring or join the hype.

PeachylalaFebruary 03, 2010

Quote:


My opinion? Tails and Knuckles will be unlockable/downloadable content.

Yes, let's charge players more for stuff they want.

God I hate DLC with a passion.

Quote from: BlackNMild2k1

But is it a HIGHLY DISAPOINTING game is what we want to know.

Then 3/4th of us can either stop caring or start seeing if they use bloom lighting.

God I am terrible.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterFebruary 03, 2010

You know what, I have to find the interview, but i'm certain Sega said it would be HD. So I guess most of you can count it out for now. Will be extremely pissed if the exact same game isn't released for Wii, but with out Hi Def.

Last thing, tonight at Midnight Gamespot will reveal Project Needle Mouse to the public. Feb 4th has to be the day to reveal it only cause it's gonna be called Sonic 4 watch. Standard classic Sega Sonic jibberish.

PeachylalaFebruary 04, 2010

Watch it reach the red circle in the Sonic cycle.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterFebruary 04, 2010

Hey BlackNMild, I don't know if that is any good, ^ up there ^, but all that could be placed in the first post. Included is a Link with footage from the game. Looks ok, don't like Sonic's running animation though, but it sure looks like a classic Sonic game thats for sure.

http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/sonicthehedgehog4episode1/news.html?sid=6249445&tag=topslot;title;1&mode=previews
GameSpot: Why did you choose to go with a title like Sonic 4? Does this mean this is a direct sequel to the Genesis games?

Ken Balough: I think one aspect to keep in mind is this game is truly a labor of love. A lot of us grew up on the Sega Genesis console; in fact, I remember vividly the first day I got mine with Revenge of Shinobi and Moonwalker. Ever since Sonic & Knuckles, Sonic the Hedgehog 4 has been a game classic Sega fans have always wanted to see. It was the right people, at the right time, getting together and finally making this game we've all wanted to see.

While the game is a brand-new adventure, it will definitely pick up after Sonic & Knuckles. However, what you are looking at is the beginning of a new story arc.

GS: The subtitle is Episode 1. Does this mean it's episodic content?

KB: As mentioned, I think the best way to view it is as a first part in a much larger adventure. When Sega released Sonic 3, ultimately it was the part 1 of a story that saw its conclusion in Sonic & Knuckles. In that same spirit, Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is a bigger story, and this is that first chapter. I think it's also safe to say that by the end of the episode one, fans will be very excited to see what's in store for episode two!

GS: Why did you decide to make this a downloadable title?

KB: In recent years, we've seen a huge surge of classic game properties making a return in this arena. games offer players a chance to play terrific games without breaking the bank. It's also a promise to Sonic fans. We're going to deliver a Genesis-era Sonic game as if it were created today that goes to the core of what classic Sonic fans desire. This means gets to judge us on our work each step of the way, and we plan on delivering that goal in a big way.

GS: In terms of graphics, the game appears to use 3D graphics. Why take that route instead of an HD makeover or a more traditional approach like Capcom's recent Mega Man games?

KB: One of our goals was to make a gorgeous-looking 2D Sonic game. This approach allows fans new and old to see what a 2D Genesis-style game would look like today with modern graphics.

GS: As far as gameplay goes, should we expect classic old-school Sonic 2D mechanics or something new added into the mix?

KB: All the Sonic favorites here for sure! Spin dash, power sneakers, etc. But you will also see the homing attack added, and in true Sonic fashion, you can compete with your friends for the fastest level times through leaderboards.

GS: What can we expect from the music? Will it sound like the old Sonic games?

KB: It will sound like an evolution from the original series. Expect to hear very familiar tempos and styles of music that resonates with 16-bit games but also has a modern appeal.

GS: Will there be any differences between the different versions? That is, will the Wii have motion control, or will the PS3 and 360 run at 1080p?

KB: For all intents and purposes, the games are designed to be identical. There are a few differences per what each console can output visually: Wii will be at 480p, while the XBLA and PSN versions will run at 1080p. However, for certain areas of the game, the Wii will be able to use motion control, and the PS3 will be able to use the Sixaxis.

GS: Is this where the Sonic franchise is moving, or can we still expect to see console and portable titles?

KB: Sonic as a brand is definitely not moving away from our packaged console versions. Making Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I for download is just a new way to offer a great Sonic experience through a different medium.

GS: Thanks for your time, Ken.

thatguyFebruary 04, 2010

That video, unfortunately, makes the game look as ugly as possible.  The dull-colored moving backgrounds with far-too-shiny foreground idea doesn't work.  Not to mention, Sonic runs the same way he does in the Sonic Rush games.

As far as I've experienced, a homing attack in the 2D games has been awkward, and a method of which to lose control of Sonic in an environment where such a mechanic isn't needed.

All-in-all, this doesn't inspire confidence.  I'm disappointed.  Where do I sign up to give SEGA more negative feedback about how what I want and what they think what I want means don't add up?

Seriously, if you're looking to show what a traditional Sonic could look like on current platforms, aim a little higher than the DS/DSi.  This looks like a joke.

Edit:  I think part of the problem is that the look of Sonic running before really seemed like he was running fast.  Watch the video, all the Sonic's shown before the new one show him running in moderate, non-boosted speeds, sometimes not even top speeds.  Now, find where it changes from Sonic 3 Sonic to Sonic 4 Sonic, and he appears to be practically jogging, by appearances.

This doesn't inspire confidence mostly for that reason, alone.  SEGA's marketing has you focus on Sonic running, Sonic running like he did in his traditional games, and yet when it goes to their interpretation of how Sonic runs, it's the same way he ran in Sonic Rush, a game they've implied isn't up to the standard they're portraying this game has.  Why wouldn't you overhaul Sonic's run movement, given that particular focus, and given your own marketing maneuvers so far?

BlackNMild2k1February 04, 2010

OP Updated

thatguyFebruary 04, 2010

Apparently the "?" console is the iPhone, which explains why "HD" Sonic looks like "DS" Sonic, I suppose.

Is this the sign that SEGA has already decided not to deliver what they've promised?

PeachylalaFebruary 04, 2010

Quote:

Is this the sign that SEGA has already decided not to deliver what they've promised?

Since when have they ever delivered on their promises?

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterFebruary 04, 2010

Sonic's running animation does stink thats for sure. I would love the Ribbon feet from Sonic CD or Brawl. I'm hoping sonic just didn't hit his full stride. There could still be hope from that.

AdrockFebruary 04, 2010

Jesus Christ on a crutch... there's literally less than 10 seconds of Sonic the Hedgehog 4 footage and people have found something to bitch about already...

PeachylalaFebruary 05, 2010

His run DOES look awkward.

AdrockFebruary 05, 2010

Is that going to make the game not fun? People have been bitching and moaning about how sh*tty Sonic games have been since Sonic and Knuckles and how Sega should just make a 2D console Sonic game again and when they do, the response is, "WAH, he looks weird when he runs." Are you f-ing kidding me? Is nothing good enough?

thatguyFebruary 05, 2010

Quote from: Adrock

Jesus Christ on a crutch... there's literally less than 10 seconds of Sonic the Hedgehog 4 footage and people have found something to bitch about already...

What does SEGA choose to show us, in the first game footage?  Sonic's run.  What does SEGA showcase, moments before this?  The legacy Sonics and their runs.  When you see the two, legacy Sonic first, you have to wonder what SEGA was thinking.  You've got to realize how many terrible Sonic games there's been, and how many times we've heard they're going back to Sonic's roots.

Each time, we look optimistically, and each time the games are dull, or lifeless, or push a button to run fast, and never look back.  This time we're told that this game is the true successor to the original titles, and already, SEGA is cutting corners on Sonic's running animations, reusing old ones from other games, rather than styling his run similar to the legacy titles they've stressed they're emulating.

So yeah, I'm complaining, because I've been optimistic every other time, but SEGA has lost even the cautious optimism I had before, and I expect them to deliver on their promises this time.  Seeing Sonic's "new" run reinforces the thought SEGA has no idea of what they're doing.  And yeah, take a look at how fast Sonic appears to be running in the legacy titles and compare it to how fast he appears to be running with Sonic 4's model, and you'll see it "feels" different.  The look of Sonic's run does have an impact on the feel of the game.

NinGurl69 *hugglesFebruary 05, 2010

lol sonic

SixthAngelFebruary 05, 2010

There goes my hope for a last minute change of heart and a nonwiiware release.

The idea that 2d games belong on download only services "where they belong" sickens me.

broodwarsFebruary 05, 2010

I have to admit cracking a smile when the Sega logo popped up at the beginning of that video with the Genesis-era "Seeeegaaaaaaaaa!" voice clip.  I know they only did that because they're hyping the Genesis' mascot's new 2D game, but Sega really needs to bring that voice clip back for their current games (the current "Sega." clip sounds too corporate for my tastes).

And I'm no fan of Sonic, but I thought the new game has a nice look.  It looks like the Genesis games, only clean and shiny.

steveyFebruary 05, 2010

HD check list

Heavy on the brown shades for color check
Shininess turn to 11 check
BLOOM BLOOM and MOAR BLOOM! check

It's more HD crap alright...

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterFebruary 05, 2010

Quote from: thatguy

  The look of Sonic's run does have an impact on the feel of the game.

Seriously though, when I played Sonic Advance I just could not get over his crapy running animation, this isn't quite as bad, but if he is supposed to be moving fast, it just looks lame. But I still think Sonic didn't hit his full stride thats all. just going to ignore the speed smoke though.

AdrockFebruary 05, 2010

This changes nothing. If you whiners got your precious legacy run animation, you'd just bitch about something else.

Every 2D side-scroller Sonic game since the Genesis has been pretty good. They failed to recapture the magic of the Genesis titles, but then again, so has Mario (i.e. NSMB and NSMBW being good games, but not SMB3/SMW good). Point being, the Advance/Rush series been fairly good titles. The problem seems to be Sega's repeated epic fail attempts at moving Sonic to 3D. Since Sonic the Hedgehog 4 is strictly a 2D game, maybe everyone should just relax. There's a better chance of this game being good than not.

ThePermFebruary 05, 2010

thats not Sonic...this is Sonic

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/theultimateperm/sega-sonic.jpg

NinGurl69 *hugglesFebruary 06, 2010

That WAS Sonic.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterFebruary 07, 2010

That aint Sonic, THIS is Sonic.

http://www.nerdles.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/SONIC.JPG

Sega of America changed the style to be hipper for an American Audience. I like our western Sonic, but not nearly as much as this one.

Actualy Perm your Sonic and mine are just about the same, for a moment I thought it was this Sonic!

http://image3.examiner.com/images/blog/wysiwyg/image/sonic_the_hedgehog.jpg

Anyway I got an update from Sega responding to the out cry of the running animation. Very pleasing.

http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?t=312594

Quote:

Hello everyone!

Today we have some good news to bring you guys in regard to Sonic's running animation in Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I! Specifically, we wanted to cover a topic that many of you have asked about after seeing the trailer.

Q: Is the running animation in the trailer what Sonic's fastest running animation will look like in Sonic the Hedgehog 4? It looks kind of slow, don't you think?

A: Actually, it is not his fastest speed! There is a faster animation for Sonic's running that was not shown in the trailer, and is more akin to what you might be familiar seeing from Sonic 3 & Knuckles or Sonic CD.

So there you have it! We'll get to show you guys firsthand what that running animation looks like in the future - but until then, rest assured that there's a lot more to the game than what you saw in the trailer: running animations included. http://forums.sega.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Have a great weekend,
Ruby 


Though I did complain about the running animation, I wasn't that bent out of shape like others only because I figured this was exactly the case. But one still has to wonder why in the heck they decided to show what they showed?

Thanks BlackNMild

BlackNMild2k1February 07, 2010

Quote from: Caterkiller

How do I end a quote so it doesn't bleed into my own words?

remove the _

PeachylalaFebruary 07, 2010

That first box art of the Mega Drive has the same style of Yasushii Yamaguchi, who designed Tails for Sonic 2.

Looking at the second box art, and the rest for the American box art, it's quite ugly. Anime-ish Sonic is more pleasing on the eye, and doesn't look as obnoxious.

ZapFebruary 07, 2010

I don't like the first one, you can't even see his eyebrow

Mop it upFebruary 07, 2010

Quote from: SixthAngel

The idea that 2d games belong on download only services "where they belong" sickens me.

I know how you feel. Some people said that New Super Mario Brothers Wii should have been on WiiWare, which is kind of depressing. I hope the huge sales of that game taught them something.

I wonder what lead them to choose WiiWare instead of retail? Do they think it has a greater chance of sales as an episodic download game? Or is it just less of a financial risk?

noname2200February 07, 2010

Quote from: Mop_it_up

Quote from: SixthAngel

The idea that 2d games belong on download only services "where they belong" sickens me.

I know how you feel. Some people said that New Super Mario Brothers Wii should have been on WiiWare, which is kind of depressing. I hope the huge sales of that game taught them something.

According to certain circles* all it has taught them is that Nintendo is both greedy and lazy.

*You know who I mean.

Quote:

I wonder what lead them to choose WiiWare instead of retail? Dothey think it has a greater chance of sales as an episodic downloadgame? Or is it just less of a financial risk?

Probably the financial risk part. Unleashed underperformed, and Black Knight bombed. I get the impression they're scaling Sonic way back. Which may be a good thing in the long run, even if I doubt Sega will get it right this time either.

broodwarsFebruary 07, 2010

Actually, Sega has been complaining for years that they "can't" make a Sonic game with just Sonic running from one end of a level to the next because "players would complain that the game was too short."  By making this an episodic WiiWare release, they can basically make as many of those style of levels as they want because expectations are different for digital download releases.  They can also, for that matter, make the game as long as they want just releasing the WiiWare equivalent of "map packs."

noname2200February 07, 2010

Quote from: broodwars

Actually, Sega has been complaining for years that they "can't" make a Sonic game with just Sonic running from one end of a level to the next because "players would complain that the game was too short."  By making this an episodic WiiWare release, they can basically make as many of those style of levels as they want because expectations are different for digital download releases.  They can also, for that matter, make the game as long as they want just releasing the WiiWare equivalent of "map packs."

I remember them claiming this post-Unleashed. I didn't buy it then and I don't buy it now. Their hypothetical level was essentially a straight shot, and their Sonic was faster than he ever was in the Genesis games. Basically, they're basing this presumption on a flawed understanding of what fans of the Genesis games were looking for. This is what happens when you drink too much of your own Kool-Aid...

AdrockFebruary 07, 2010

Quote from: Caterkiller

Though I did complain about the running animation, I wasn't that bent out of shape like others only because I figured this was exactly the case. But one still has to wonder why in the heck they decided to show what they showed?

Save the best for last? And probably because they didn't expect all the backlash for a running animation.

thatguyFebruary 07, 2010

Probably because they focused on the running animation in the trailer, showing how he used to run.  Considering that, I think either SEGA is covering, and planning to change what they have, or they're actually telling the truth, and their marketing team is just terrible.

Next thing you know, we'll be hearing about how the homing attack was actually what they mean by just "jumping and landing on an enemy."  Regardless, it's not bad news to hear it.  Who knows what they'll mis-market next!

PeachylalaFebruary 07, 2010

They might show off the actual levels next, and they show that they are the boring KEEP RUNNING FAST designed levels, Sega proves they can never develop a proper Sonic game without the original staff.

Though one quarter of the original staff is considered the person who ruined Sonic post-Saturn days.

thatguyFebruary 08, 2010

Take from the "Intro" section of the Sonic 4 site:  (The spoilers are for the main Genesis Sonic games, so if you've beaten them, don't worry about it.)

Sonic and Tails secure the Master Emerald and return it to Knuckles on Angel Island. With it's power restored, the Angel Island lifts off into the sky as Sonic and Tails fly off into the sunset.

But this humiliating defeat only serves to further Eggman's rage, and he has determined once and for all to rid himself of Sonic. Eggman revisits - and improves - the very best of his creations to defeat our spiked hero.

And so a new Adventure begins...


From the description of Eggman, essentially, it sounds like he's the representation of "SEGA" in Sonic-character form. 

Quote:

Eggman revisits - and improves - the very best of his creations to defeat our spiked hero.

Hmmm...

SixthAngelFebruary 08, 2010

Did you really need to spoiler tag a Sonic game?

Thats like a spoiler that Mario rescues Peach.  I'm just kidding.  Your princess is in another castle.

EasyCureFebruary 08, 2010

So what's the big deal? Isn't Sonic 4 old

BlackNMild2k1February 08, 2010

Oh gawd. It's not possible because the SNES didn't have BLAST PROCESSING and the sound effects were horrible.

Will the REAL Sonic 4 please stand up!

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterFebruary 17, 2010

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3kajGi2TpY

Leaked footage, check it out quick it wont be around for too long.

Thanks goes to IssunZX

MaxiFebruary 17, 2010

Did that say Episode 2 at the begining? It looked like Roman Numerals that they were using.

Music is decent.The look of the game is a throwback to the Genesis days. I wonder if the spindash will be in the game.

BlackNMild2k1February 17, 2010

Looks like sonic.... still a little glitchy though.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterFebruary 17, 2010

Yeah still a bit glitchy it seems. Yes the spin dash is there, and it seemed to almost happen at one point during the platforming section. Zones are Splash Hill Zone, Lost Labyrinth Zone, Casino Street Zone, Mad Gear Zone.

I like that when Sonic jumps all speed isnt lost like in the 3D games before Unleashed. His feet do wheel like old school, but sometimes he gets going really soon but his feet don't get there yet. Maybe the faster looking animation will happen quicker as we see more footage of later builds.

So far I am pretty happy with what is shown.

Here it is again for folks who dont want to look through the last page. 4 Zones confirmed so far and 1 special stage.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3kajGi2TpY

vuduFebruary 17, 2010

Quote from: Maxi

Did that say Episode 2 at the begining? It looked like Roman Numerals that they were using.

No, it says Episode I.  The white outline surrounding the blue body makes it look sort of like a II.

It also says Press the Start Button, so this must be footage from either the 360 or PS3 version.

OH GAWD I just watched the rest of the video.  Looks glitchy as Hell.  Now I know why they forced everyone to yank the footage.

Lucky for me this reminded me why I hate Sonic games so much.  I just saved myself $10.

TJ SpykeFebruary 17, 2010

Besides no confirmation of being real (could be a fan-hack), the game is still about 5-6 months away.

vuduFebruary 17, 2010

Point taken--but my it doesn't change that fact that I simply don't like Sonic games.  This could be the best Sonic ever and it still wouldn't appeal to me because I simply don't like the mechanics of the series.  Plenty of people like the games--more power to them.  But it's not for me.

TJ SpykeFebruary 17, 2010

You are not really the target audience, this game is aimed at those who want to play a new 2D Sonic game like the original Genesis ones. It's OK if you are not interested in that and I guess it's better to find out that now rather than spend $10 later and be upset.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterFebruary 22, 2010

Great news!
Sonic 3 level designer working on Sonic the Hedgehog 4!

Quote:

So, is it just Dimps? Just Sonic Team? The answer is a bit of both: Yes, Dimps is working on the game. But there's actually more to it than just that: at the same time, we also have members of Sonic Team, including the original senior level designer from Sonic 3 & Knuckles on the SEGA Genesis working alongside them. It is most definitely a partnership, and the result of this teamwork is something many of us are excited for. - SEGA of America Community Manager RubyEclipse

http://gonintendo.com/viewstory.php?id=114998#comment-section


I think this is what many of you skeptics are glad to read. Me being one of them.

BlackNMild2k1February 22, 2010

Is it just that one member of Sonic Team or is most of Sonic Team helping?
I think that is what everyone is worried about.

PeachylalaFebruary 22, 2010

Yasahara-san left Sega ages ago, so unless SEGA begged him to help them, it may be someone else on the old development team.

Still, interesting news.

Luigi DudeFebruary 22, 2010

Quote from: Peachylala

Yasahara-san left Sega ages ago, so unless SEGA begged him to help them, it may be someone else on the old development team.

Still, interesting news.

It's like how with certain movies they'll say it's from the writer of another recent movie that was very successful to get people interested.  Of course when you see who this writer really is, it turns out they were just one out of a dozen other writers and were only responsible for a small part of the film.

So yeah, unless it's Yasahara himself who's helping out, I'm still going to remain somewhat skeptical.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterMarch 08, 2010

Some interesting info some of you might me interested in.

Interview with Game Informer and Nintendo Power should have something on it in the next issue.
http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/update-gi-screenshots-sonic-4-interview-in-latest-nintendo-power-game-informer

http://www.sonicstadium.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/Sonic-4-screenshots-GI.jpg
It's all quoted from the link, though I keep messing it up putting it in quotes.


Some more info…
While Sonic 4 will have shields, Episode 1 will only include the one hit shield. Just enough to help get your rings to the end of the stage.
Izuka says the reason they went episodic is that the game is too big to smaller hard drives (Wii and iPhone likely?) to fit in all at once and he didn’t see players paying $60 for a 2-D Sonic game on disc. (Hellllooo. New Super Mario Bros Wii anyone?!!)


Game Informer interviewed Izuka who gave some new info on the game. Highlights include..
What about Tails and Knuckles you ask? “Fans will be very pleased with the cast in episode 2.”
Episode 1 is a prologue.
Moves include: Spin Dash, Rolling Attack, homing attack and a new move yet unknown.
About homing attack: “I wanted the user to enjoy an easy-to-play feeling by the attack sequence that this
homing attack allows, and find the fun routes in the air.”
Classic special stages make a return.
Hornet Badnik. (Forget his name. Not Buzzbomber) Shown in screen shots.
Other screenshot shows Sonic smash though a wall that becomes a bunch of checkered bricks.
Another screenshot shows Sonic grabbing a handrail which goes across a wire. (Very Advance)XP
No floaty LBP physics. Classic Sonic Gameplay, classic Sonic speed. Says Izuka.
Not 3-D, but all CG pre-render.
Gamers will get classic “try again” ending if not successful at getting all emeralds. If you get all emeralds, you get cliffhanger ending for episode 2.
“If Sonic 4’s return to form (there they go again. ) is the Sonic experience you have been waiting 16 years for, then we strongly encourage you to try this.”


BlackNMild2k1March 08, 2010

Quote from: Caterkiller

It's all quoted from the link, though I keep messing it up putting it in quotes.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=30575.0

you have your tags in the wrong places.
use copy/paste text here and your post will look right.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterMarch 12, 2010

Awesome and uplifting Nintendo Power interview. Here is a link to the interview thanks to Illuminous_Orb from this place http://board.sonicstadium.org/topic/4549-sonic-4-interview-in-latest-nintendo-power/page__st__180__p__136175entry136175


Come on, doesn't this make any of you feel better? The homing attacked isn't shoe horned in like the Advanced series and there will be 12 levels in the first episode.

EDIT:
Man these rules! Things were easier when I didn't even understand copy and paste. 

BlackNMild2k1March 12, 2010

I don't think we're supposed to post scans from English magazines.

TJ SpykeMarch 12, 2010

Technically, any magazine. There is fair use, but I think the mods prefer to play it safe and just not allow them at all.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterMarch 12, 2010

Enough about rules, what do you guys think of the information given? And Super Sonic is playable in normal stages too. I saw the achievements list.

BlackNMild2k1March 18, 2010

I have some Sonic Avatars up for grabs.

Caterkiller you have first pick ;)

http://i42.tinypic.com/ighj6s.jpg http://i43.tinypic.com/6863yg.jpg http://i39.tinypic.com/in8hgz.jpg

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterMarch 18, 2010

The fast running one please! Are these from the new game?

Thanks BlackNMild!

BlackNMild2k1March 18, 2010

yes they are.

no need to re-host it either unless you want to.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterMarch 18, 2010

Did these come from the main website or something? was there any news?

BlackNMild2k1March 18, 2010

Someone ripped them from the site and made avatars. I brought them here so you may use it.
Didn't see any new news.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterMarch 24, 2010

Interview with Iizuka
http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/onms-sonic-4-interview-with-takashi-iizuka

Sonic 4. 3 episodes long.  Episode 1 - 4 zones 3 acts each.
http://www.sonicstadium.org/news/ngamer-magazine-preview-confirms-game-length-special-stage

Very happy with all that I am reading and seeing.

PeachylalaMarch 24, 2010

OH GOD NO

NOT THE SONIC 1 BONUS STAGES.

Wiimote tilt is kind of a plus though

Luigi DudeMarch 24, 2010

Quote from: Peachylala

OH GOD NO

NOT THE SONIC 1 BONUS STAGES.

Sonic 1 easily has the best bonus stages of the Sonic games.  I'll take rotating platformers over the headache inducing bullsh!t they put in Sonic 2 and 3.

PeachylalaMarch 25, 2010

I hated Sonic 1's bonus stages because the jumping mechanic FUCKING SUCKED in that part. I'm am thankful for wii rotation... which hopeful won't suffer from Iizuka glitches.

steveyMarch 25, 2010

I love Sonic 1's (&3's) bonus stages and I'm glade that it's finally back. This game might not be the worst sonic game ever, might*.

Quote from: thatguy

As far as I've experienced, a homing attack in the 2D games has been awkward, and a method of which to lose control of Sonic in an environment where such a mechanic isn't needed.

I'm not so pessimistic on the homing attack in 2D Sonic games, they can be very well done, add to the game play/speed, and fun. Although I only seen it done right on a very well done Sonic 1 CD ROM Hack but it shouldn't be too hard for Sega to make it fun and fit in to the game.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterMarch 25, 2010

Well this Homing attack is being done right as far as i'm concerned. This attack is used to gain access to higher areas in stages.

The advance and rush games just had to do it.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterMarch 25, 2010

Leader Boards, I think I mentioned long time ago are confirmed.

and great screen shots on ign.
http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/031/031451/imgs_1.html

Along with super postive preview
http://xboxlive.ign.com/articles/107/1079808p1.html

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterMarch 31, 2010

New video! Watch quick befor its down!

http://www.tssznews.com/2010/03/30/new-video-another-sonic-4-leak/


I don't mean to post again, since I'm just replying after myself, but editing wont take the thread to the beginning right?

BlackNMild2k1March 31, 2010

It looks good, the only thing it was missing from the original was those tv's with the stuff in them. I don't remember what they were or if they were even useful, but I do remember some TV's that you could break and something would be in it.

MaxiMarch 31, 2010

Looks good. Kinda hard to hear the music but gameplay is nice.

Yes Caterkiller if you edit your previous post the topic won't be bumped to the first page.

thatguyMarch 31, 2010

I still think it looks incredibly ugly, as is, and watching the videos that made it up onto Kotaku, the mine-cart stages looks cringe-worthy.  That said, the gameplay resembles a cross between Sonic Rush and the legacy Sonic titles, which, while it doesn't look as good as what was on the Genesis, isn't nearly as dull and bland as what happened with the Rush series.

Still, I hope Sonic Team takes Sonic out of the hands of Dimps, since it's clear they've got one perception of the series, and hands it to someone else with a more clear understanding of the traditional games.

PeachylalaApril 01, 2010

Quote from: thatguy

Still, I hope Sonic Team takes Sonic out of the hands of Dimps, since it's clear they've got one perception of the series, and hands it to someone else with a more clear understanding of the traditional games.

What would you rather have? One that gives him speed that turns redundant quickly (Dimps) or one that makes unique ideas that ruins them by bad glitches and bad ideas (Sonic Team)?

TJ SpykeApril 01, 2010

Quote from: thatguy

I still think it looks incredibly ugly, as is, and watching the videos that made it up onto Kotaku, the mine-cart stages looks cringe-worthy.  That said, the gameplay resembles a cross between Sonic Rush and the legacy Sonic titles, which, while it doesn't look as good as what was on the Genesis, isn't nearly as dull and bland as what happened with the Rush series.

Still, I hope Sonic Team takes Sonic out of the hands of Dimps, since it's clear they've got one perception of the series, and hands it to someone else with a more clear understanding of the traditional games.

Considering that the Sonic Rush games were universally hailed as being some of the BEST Sonic games, I don't see why Sega would have another developer do the future games (Sonic Team has no say, they are just a development team within Sega. It would be like saying Retro Studios has a say over the Metroid series or Bungie has a say over the Halo series, Sega obviously feels Dimps would do a better job than Sonin Team would).

"Universally," my ass. I'd rather go back and play Sonic Unleashed some more than play Sonic Rush again. The Rush games feel like parodies of Sonic, where you're constantly moving at full speed with no real platforming and what amount to a series of QTEs where you have to jump or move at the right moment or else be instantly killed.

PeachylalaApril 01, 2010

I have to admit, Sonic Unleashed wasn't THAT terrible. Yes, the Warehog levels were ass... but I do have a soft spot for beat-em-ups and the game gives you the choice to make Warehog Dante move faster.

It also felt somewhat similar to Sonic Adventure, which I love to pieces.

TJ SpykeApril 01, 2010

Quote from: insanolord

"Universally," my ass. I'd rather go back and play Sonic Unleashed some more than play Sonic Rush again. The Rush games feel like parodies of Sonic, where you're constantly moving at full speed with no real platforming and what amount to a series of QTEs where you have to jump or move at the right moment or else be instantly killed.

The overwhelmingly majority of critics and gamers loved the first game and liked the second. Every game with have at least some people who don't like it. You may not have loved the games, but you are in the very tiny minority.

Quote from: Peachylala

I have to admit, Sonic Unleashed wasn't THAT terrible. Yes, the Warehog levels were ass... but I do have a soft spot for beat-em-ups and the game gives you the choice to make Warehog Dante move faster.

It also felt somewhat similar to Sonic Adventure, which I love to pieces.

Yeah, there's a reason I haven't sold Unleashed. It does have some redeeming qualities, and every once in a while gives you a hint of how good it could have been given some better choices in a few places.

rad.i.kalApril 02, 2010

can't wait to play this game, 2d mario, 2.5d levels oh yes! just looks smart, i think they finally figured it out

AdrockApril 02, 2010

Quote from: TJ

The overwhelmingly majority of critics and gamers loved the first game and liked the second. Every game with have at least some people who don't like it. You may not have loved the games, but you are in the very tiny minority.

I love how you make these blanket statements and pass them off as fact. The "majority of critics" which I assume you mean game reviewers (otherwise your assertion is even more overreaching than previously thought) does not mean the majority of people who played the games. I'm not saying you're necessarily wrong; I'm saying you can't rightly make that comment because there's nothing objective about it. Did you personally ask every person who played the Sonic Rush games what their thoughts on them were?

It's like those old toothpaste commercials where 9 out 10 dentists recommend say, Aquafresh. That doesn't mean 90% of all dentists recommended Aquafresh; it means 90% of the people they polled did. See, the original claim means next to nothing, but it sounds nice and suggests more than it actually means.

BlackNMild2k1April 05, 2010

I thought some of you might be interested in the recent Sonic 4 Leak scandal

Apparently someone with access to PartnerNET has leaked videos of the entire game of Sonic 4 to Sonic Retro Forums(one of the videos are in this thread), but it wasn't until he suggested that he would leak the actual game (3 months prior to release) did SEGA decide to take action and blame the Sonic Retro forum admins for not plugging the leaks sooner. Sonic Retro Admins then decided to pass the blame onto the forum members by saying “You fuckers fucked up BAD,” even though they themselves posted many of those leaks on their front page(where a few of them still remain). Microsoft decided to shut down PartnerNet (a developer resource sharing website) temporarily to plug the leaks and begin an investigation on who was breaking the NDA's. This has led to Sonic Retro banning all Sonic 4 discussion in hopes to repair it's relationship with SEGA who was giving them exclusives prior to recent events.

Anyway, that's the summary, here is the link
http://www.tssznews.com/2010/04/03/sonic-retro-bans-sonic-4-discussion/


And for those that are looking for a sonic fix now
Sonic Flash Based Level Creator

video of creator in being played: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIRc_8JVUbM

TJ SpykeApril 05, 2010

I can't blame Sega. It's one thing for them to just post video (that's basically free advertising), but posting the game is piracy. The admins of the site can rightfully be blamed. Not only did they not remove the content from the boards despite knowing that whoever posted it did not have the authority to do so, but they actually promoted it on their front page (CAG doesn't remove leaked info on their forum, but they do not mention it on the actually site). I think all of the actions being taken are appropriate, the site banning discussion of the game (although apparently they still have some of it up) and Microsoft temporarily shut down PartnerNet while they find out who leaked the game (it's safe to assume that whoever did it will get fired and possibly sued).

steveyApril 05, 2010

Did the game actually get posted and currently being pirated on the darknet or was he just about to do it???

Quote:

Apparently someone with access to PartnerNET has leaked videos of the entire game of Sonic 4 to Sonic Retro Forums(one of the videos are in this thread), but it wasn't until he suggested that he would leak the actual game (3 months prior to release) did SEGA decide to take action and blame the Sonic Retro forum admins for not plugging the leaks sooner. Sonic Retro Admins then decided to pass the blame onto the forum members by saying “You fuckers fucked up BAD,” even though they themselves posted many of those leaks on their front page(where a few of them still remain).

That's a massive exaggeration and really mean to Sonic Retro. (Some of their fan projects are really good.) SEGA contacted them when the leaks first began and they were told just to keep an eye on it, so they allowed the non-damaging (short videos, pictures, music clips) leaks to continue. It was solely Sonic Retro that decided that posting a full game play through when the game is still 3 month away is too soon (It happen to pretty much every major game a few days before release) and tried to stopped it.

BlackNMild2k1April 05, 2010

I think SEGA contacted the guy who threatened to leak the game (different person from who leaked the videos) and convinced him that that wasn't a wise move. From what I'm hearing, there are NDA's attached to everyone that has access to PartnerNET including a university or two with game development classes.

It is thought that students of one of those classes are responsible and those classes are likely at risk of being cut off.

Of course this is all hearsay, so I don't know the details, just telling you what I heard.

edit:
Who wants the ending spoiled? .... :-X

PeachylalaApril 06, 2010

Let me guess Sonic turns Super Sonic and beats the shit out of Eggman, but pulls a bait and switch hence Episode 2.

BlackNMild2k1April 06, 2010

The smiley hold the secret, try an make him talk.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterJune 07, 2010

Sure most of us don't care, even I'm starting to forget about this game, but here goes anyway. Starting to feel like Kytim.

http://www.tssznews.com/2010/05/28/exclusive-sonic-4-gimmick-acts-shifted-to-iphoneipod-touch-release/

Becuase of ultra fan backlash there will be no motion mine cart or pinball stages in the console games. They will only appear on the Iphone and some other device.

thatguyJune 07, 2010

I think it's good news, overall.  From what I've seen, those would've really stopped all of the game's momentum mid-playthrough.  I'd rather see them remove bad content, rather than keep it.

Keep in mind, this is DIMPS that the source in that article is referring to.  I stand by my statement that the people at DIMPS don't know any more about the classic Sonic formula than anyone else developing Sonic titles, except that the original games were 2D.  Reading that link, it seems like the source really felt like the developers haven't been able to capture the feel of classic Sonic yet.

MaxiOctober 11, 2010

Well this came out today.Anybody pick it up?

steveyOctober 12, 2010

nope

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterOctober 12, 2010

I meant to get it yesterday but my day was so long, even now I'm back at work for another 12+ hour day, so maybe tomorrow.

thatguyOctober 12, 2010

I've picked it up, I'll be talking about it today when I record my podcast, and reviewing it somewhere down the week, perhaps even today, depending on what my schedule is like.  It's been a busy, busy few weeks, and things have calmed down, but I have a review backlog, which makes finding how Sonic 4 Episode 1 fits in a little difficult.

To sum it up, it's definitely the shortest Sonic game I've ever played.  Essentially, there's four worlds, three acts, a boss for each world, a little more, and the special stages.

Aside from that, I'd describe it as a step backwards for Sonic, in a few senses.  It does succeed in reviving a more classic style of gameplay, but at the same time, it lacks so many of the improvements found in even Sonic 2, let alone Sonic 3 and Knuckles.  Beyond that, stage design feels solid in most cases, and although it may be nostalgia talking, while these new stages don't have the same amount of character as prior Sonic stages reached, they do convey some of the same feelings.  The homing attack is a miss for me.  Rather than even have it, we'd be better off with Sonic capable of a light air-dash-style boost, like how the homing attack works when there's no target around.  In those cases, it's a very light boost of forward momentum that feels natural to someone like me, who enjoyed the shield power-ups in Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

I don't want to get into too much more detail, so I'll be brief and say that I did feel a bit cheapened by the fact that stage design was too heavily influenced by Sonic and Sonic 2 stages, as was boss design.  Too much of a rehash for me.  That's it for now, if I say much more, I'd practically be writing my review, which I'm not quite ready for.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterOctober 12, 2010

Quote from: thatguy

I've picked it up, I'll be talking about it today when I record my podcast, and reviewing it somewhere down the week, perhaps even today, depending on what my schedule is like.  It's been a busy, busy few weeks, and things have calmed down, but I have a review backlog, which makes finding how Sonic 4 Episode 1 fits in a little difficult.

To sum it up, it's definitely the shortest Sonic game I've ever played.  Essentially, there's four worlds, three acts, a boss for each world, a little more, and the special stages.

Aside from that, I'd describe it as a step backwards for Sonic, in a few senses.  It does succeed in reviving a more classic style of gameplay, but at the same time, it lacks so many of the improvements found in even Sonic 2, let alone Sonic 3 and Knuckles.  Beyond that, stage design feels solid in most cases, and although it may be nostalgia talking, while these new stages don't have the same amount of character as prior Sonic stages reached, they do convey some of the same feelings.  The homing attack is a miss for me.  Rather than even have it, we'd be better off with Sonic capable of a light air-dash-style boost, like how the homing attack works when there's no target around.  In those cases, it's a very light boost of forward momentum that feels natural to someone like me, who enjoyed the shield power-ups in Sonic 3 and Knuckles.

I don't want to get into too much more detail, so I'll be brief and say that I did feel a bit cheapened by the fact that stage design was too heavily influenced by Sonic and Sonic 2 stages, as was boss design.  Too much of a rehash for me.  That's it for now, if I say much more, I'd practically be writing my review, which I'm not quite ready for.

I agree and disagree with some of these things. I do agree that the game is very short, and I blame this on the episodic nature.

I disagree about it being a step backwards. Yeah, at first it does look like it is going backwards rather than going forward, but think about this for a second. The problem with recent Sonic games is that Sega has tried too hard to give Sonic new skills, abilities and gimmicks. With Sonic being basic outside of his dash, speed and homing attacks it allows the developers to work on the basic gameplay and thus be more polished.

I mentioned before that the speed was toned down. I can see how some fans can be annoyed by thus, but again, it all comes back to working with the basics. The problem in some Sonic games was that Sonic was TOO fast, often leading you to lose control of him and leading to a death (which is what happens in Sonic 06). Sonic 4 allows for a more realistic feel with the speed slowly building up, this allows for tighter controls, and in fear of being redundant, with Sega failing and re-inventing the franchise they needed to focus on basics.

I really like the level design, especially the Casino zones. There are some very annoying levels, but I love them overall.

In the end, if you were expecting to be a grand revival of Sonic right off the bat, then you WILL be disappointed. I realize that Sega is trying to do that, and I rather they do it slowly rather than going all wild and thus create more issues than what they wanted to avoid in the first place. Baby steps, and hopefully Sonic Episode 2 should be improvements.

thatguyOctober 12, 2010

By a step backwards, I mean that it even steps back from the classic games, not the newer games.  For instance, the constant "enemy ladders," I'd call them, where, to reach a peak, one must homing attack four times in a row, bouncing upward and losing all momentum Sonic currently has in the progress.  That's bad stage design built upon a mechanic in the game.  While there are places that have equally annoying and slowing processes in other classic Sonic titles, I can't recall any that exist so prominently and repeatedly throughout any other game.

That's a step backward, as far as classic Sonic goes.  They implemented a new ability, which has potential to work well, then created a counter-intuitive use for it.  Additional problems, like an early example, the swinging vines, also throw off momentum and control, and don't work well.  Again, these are steps in reverse from even the original Sonic the Hedgehog.

Understand, that I had two points when I mentioned the step backward in my previous post.  The good point was that it did exactly what you said.  It does revive classic Sonic gameplay.  That's a good step backward.  The bad?  What I pointed out above, in this post:  There's many elements brought into the game that are counter-intuitive, require no real platforming skills, and absolutely force players to lose any momentum carried.  The former step back is a good one, the latter, a bad one.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterOctober 12, 2010

Quote from: thatguy

By a step backwards, I mean that it even steps back from the classic games, not the newer games.  For instance, the constant "enemy ladders," I'd call them, where, to reach a peak, one must homing attack four times in a row, bouncing upward and losing all momentum Sonic currently has in the progress.  That's bad stage design built upon a mechanic in the game.  While there are places that have equally annoying and slowing processes in other classic Sonic titles, I can't recall any that exist so prominently and repeatedly throughout any other game.

That's a step backward, as far as classic Sonic goes.  They implemented a new ability, which has potential to work well, then created a counter-intuitive use for it.  Additional problems, like an early example, the swinging vines, also throw off momentum and control, and don't work well.  Again, these are steps in reverse from even the original Sonic the Hedgehog.

Understand, that I had two points when I mentioned the step backward in my previous post.  The good point was that it did exactly what you said.  It does revive classic Sonic gameplay.  That's a good step backward.  The bad?  What I pointed out above, in this post:  There's many elements brought into the game that are counter-intuitive, require no real platforming skills, and absolutely force players to lose any momentum carried.  The former step back is a good one, the latter, a bad one.

Actually, in my first game time I did encounter these problems you are talking. But in my second playthrough I managed to go through them without any feeling of speed being lost in the process.

I noticed that once you get a good feel of the level you can run through the stage without losing speed. I think the most annoying stage is the one in the ruins with all the canons. THAT definitely slowed down the game, for me at least.

The way I see it, if you try and compare it to the Genesis games, then yeah, Sonic 4 is disappointing. I understand that Sega is BANKING on nostalgia for this game to be successful, but I see it as its own game, and its good. Very good. Maybe I just had my expectations low enough that the game delivered despite some flaws.

Ian SaneOctober 12, 2010

Quote:

The way I see it, if you try and compare it to the Genesis games, then yeah, Sonic 4 is disappointing. I understand that Sega is BANKING on nostalgia for this game to be successful, but I see it as its own game, and its good. Very good. Maybe I just had my expectations low enough that the game delivered despite some flaws.


I think that is cutting a game way too much slack.  It's perfectly reasonable for an entry in an ongoing series to be compared with other entries.  The most generic cookie-cutter unexceptional game can look good in a vacuum.  But when you have perspective you can't just turn it off.  I cannot help but compare any new videogame I play to ones I have played before.

I think Sonic the Hedgehog 4 should be like if Sega made a Sonic 4 as a Saturn launch title.  Think of what a 2D Sonic would be like released at that time period with Sonic's momentum being at its strongest.  Would this fly or would it be considered a big disappointment?  I think it should hold up to those standards and not be given a free pass if it doesn't.

I haven't played the game but from the opinions expressed here it gives me a NSMB vibe.  The original DS NSMB I didn't like very much because to me it just didn't hold up to the classic Mario games.  It felt too much like a rehash of the first game that relied on nostalgia and the assumption that I had not played the original games in a while and would get a thrill out of the novelty of playing that old style gameplay again.  The problem was I had played the old titles recently and knew that if NSMB was released on the SNES in 1996 it would have been considered a disappointment.  NSMB Wii however succeeded because I felt it worked in the context of the whole series.  It felt like where one would naturally go if the 2D series had continued with no breaks.  It wasn't a nostalgia gimmick game, it was the real deal.

I would want them to do the same with Sonic.  I don't want a "well this is the best Sonic in years".  I want "this is one of the best Sonic games PERIOD".  I want something that can hold a candle to the Genesis games.  This isn't a charity.  I don't give out awards for effort or "nice try".  I know what Sonic is capable of and I'm not interested in less than that.

Mop it upOctober 12, 2010

Does this game have other characters besides Sonic? Does it have any sort of 2-player mode?

Kytim89October 12, 2010

I am interested in this game, Retro City Rampage and Cave Story and I will most likely buy the for Christmas.

A Nocturnus level from Sonic Chronicles would be nice to play through.

MorariOctober 14, 2010

I'll wait until all of the episodes are released as a single product, thank you.

Why can't I play as Tails or Knuckles? Why doesn't the game feature all of the neat bubble power-ups from Sonic 3? The game sounds as if it might just be a little too retro.

Spak-SpangOctober 14, 2010

I sounds to me that they are purposely saving content for later episodes.  When they announced that this game was episodic it made me say WHY? 

There is no reason for a retro 2D game to be episodic.  Release the game fully finished please.  As it is I agree.  I will wait until there is a full version of the game.  Probably ported to the 3DS or something. 

Mop it upOctober 14, 2010

Count me into the club of waiting for an episodic compilation. $15 per episode is too much (I know there's no guarantee the following episodes will be, but it seems likely).

thatguyOctober 14, 2010

My review made it up.  Regardless, I pretty much conclude to avoid the game unless you've exhausted the classic Sonic games.  It does fit in with them, but it's just a level under any of them, and a bit too short.  It's practically possible for anyone with any potential to play Sonic 4: Episode 1 to buy any (or all) for a much lower price, and they're all better values for you time.

DasmosOctober 14, 2010

Oh man, that level with the cannons in the casino has to be the most boringly frustrating level in a Sonic game yet.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterOctober 14, 2010

You know I actually like that connon portion. Right now it doesn't feel so much like a SaK as it does a Sonic the Hedgehog part 1, I get a real New Super Mario Bros Wii/Super Mario Bros vibe from it. But I am enjoying the game. I remember playing at E3 and it was a graphical mess, but on my tv it looks pretty darn nice.

I like the homing attack in that it doesn't give Sonic and insane mid air dash if he isn't locked on, and I am digging vines and such. I only played through about half the game so far, but I like it. That Guy and I are in different boats I suppose, the things he hates I like. But you know I liked allot of Sonic games in the begining and by the time I was done out right hated them. So maybe I will wait just a bit longer.

I just can't get over how non Sonic Rush the game is! There are many moments when I stop and gotta jump here and there, or I see something really high up and far away and try to spin dash and long jump across some casm to reach a point of interest. Havn't did that kind of stuff since the old days and it feels good.  When I grab vines I am reminded of Sonic 2 and 3's vines/ropes and only this time they swing like Mario using momentum to jump farther, what can I say? I think it works!

As for the stuff that really doesn't matter, Ricky, Flicky, Pecky, Rocky, Tocky, Wocky, and god knows who else are bouncing around after I smash a robot and I love to see that. Sonic doesn't say word, and though I do miss transitions from one zone to the next I'm sure they will be included in future episodes.

I think it's a great start so far, and I hope Tails and Knuckles will join in the following episodes for 2 player co-op play.

Art_de_CatOctober 14, 2010

!5 dollars seems a bit much to charge for an episodic game. 10 Bucks I would not have minded as much.

thatguyOctober 15, 2010

Quote from: Caterkiller

You know I actually like that connon portion. Right now it doesn't feel so much like a SaK as it does a Sonic the Hedgehog part 1, I get a real New Super Mario Bros Wii/Super Mario Bros vibe from it. But I am enjoying the game. I remember playing at E3 and it was a graphical mess, but on my tv it looks pretty darn nice.

I like the homing attack in that it doesn't give Sonic and insane mid air dash if he isn't locked on, and I am digging vines and such. I only played through about half the game so far, but I like it. That Guy and I are in different boats I suppose, the things he hates I like. But you know I liked allot of Sonic games in the begining and by the time I was done out right hated them. So maybe I will wait just a bit longer.

I just can't get over how non Sonic Rush the game is! There are many moments when I stop and gotta jump here and there, or I see something really high up and far away and try to spin dash and long jump across some casm to reach a point of interest. Havn't did that kind of stuff since the old days and it feels good.  When I grab vines I am reminded of Sonic 2 and 3's vines/ropes and only this time they swing like Mario using momentum to jump farther, what can I say? I think it works!

As for the stuff that really doesn't matter, Ricky, Flicky, Pecky, Rocky, Tocky, Wocky, and god knows who else are bouncing around after I smash a robot and I love to see that. Sonic doesn't say word, and though I do miss transitions from one zone to the next I'm sure they will be included in future episodes.

I think it's a great start so far, and I hope Tails and Knuckles will join in the following episodes for 2 player co-op play.

I don't think I disagree as much as you think.
It's a fun game, and from me, 3 stars is a pretty good rating, honestly.  The other Sonic games are just such better options and set a higher standard.  I also let my perspective on Sonic and Knuckles influence my review.  Essentially, aside from lock-on and introducing playable Knuckles, the game seemed to be a little bit of the Black Sheep of the classic games.  I view it as a fun, 3.5 star game, worthy of your time if you like Sonic games, but unworthy unless you've played the others first.  Without the lock-on properties, it would've been a 3 star game.  Sonic 4: Episode 1, is essentially that, thought I still think I favor stand-alone Sonic and Knuckles a bit better, the margin isn't great enough to worry about in any meaningful way, when lock-on gaming isn't included.

Spak-SpangOctober 15, 2010

Wow, so the common opinion is that Sonic 4 is good, but not as good as the original series. 

I wonder, I actually think the original Sonic games are flawed and some of the worst platforming games of the older generation.  I think Sonic became popular as the only alternative to Mario, but because the games were that good.  So to me some of the additions people do not like about this Sonic 4 I am interested in.  Slower speed, homing attack and such...

But, if the level design is not as great as the originals...then I am definitely out.  Sonic 3 is probably the only Sonic game I would revisit...maybe add Sonic & Knuckles to that...so I could get 2 games for the price of part of a game right now...

Actually, if you have a 360, you can get Sonic 2, Sonic 3, and Sonic and Knuckles, each $5 on XBLA, for the price of this game.

For its astonishing premium price point, I'll pass on Sonic 4. It's shorter than any game in the original trilogy, which can be bought for less money. This seems like a title that has no place being released episodically - episodic content should be reserved for the point-&-clicks. In fact, it comes across as really cynical, how Sega is intentionally holding back like this.

Honestly, I'm way more interested in Sonic Colours; cautiously so, but at least that game appears to be doing something quite different, and  it probably has Sonic 4 trumped on the value card.

Ian SaneOctober 15, 2010

I think frankly that episodic content is a big rip-off scam to begin with.  I'll pay for a game once I expect the entire fucking game, thank you very much.  It just seems like a way to squeeze extra purchases out of gamers without really providing any benefits to the customer.  What do you as a gamer get out of episodic content?  So you have to pay for each piece of the game and wait for them to be released over a period of time.  What is the appeal in that?

Quote:


I actually think the original Sonic games are flawed and some of the worst platforming games of the older generation.


I think Sonic is certainly not on par with Mario but there are WAY too many horrible platforming games from that time period for Sonic to be one of the worst.  Bubsy, Aero the Acro-bat, Awesome Possum and Mr. Nutz are all much worse.  There was a time where EVERY company made platformers and tried to have some mascot character.  It was like the default videogame design.  The classic Sonic games would have to be outright garbage to be considered among the worst platformers of the time.

alegoicoeOctober 15, 2010

i have tried to play it a couples of times, but i hate the physics of the game and the messy level design, i know this is huge for sega fans, maybe sonic its not made for me. on the plus side it looks really nice.

Spak-SpangOctober 16, 2010

Ian:  Going to your NSMB comment.  The DS game was strange.  It tried to feel like the original series, and it was fun to play through the first time, but the game felt off to me.  Part of it was definitely the graphics, but there was something more...it didn't feel special or fun.

Now, NSMB Wii is completely different.  The game feels amazing.  The graphics are somewhat of a let down, but much more acceptable and beautiful.  But, when you have multiple player playing at the same time the game turns into pure magic and is amazing.  NSMB Wii is what I expect from titles trying to revive the feeling of old games and give a new experience.  It truly is awesome. 

Sonic 4 sounds like it is a good game, which we should all be thankful for and be willing to play...but for the price it isn't enough to warrant buying...yet.  If Sega had used episodic content to give us full games that linked together and had different gameplay elements to differentiate each experience then I could understand.  If Sonic 4 was a full 6-8 levels with 3 Acts and was just Sonic.  Then Sonic 4 Episode 2 was 4-6 levels more and added 2 players with Tails to all the levels.  I could see this working.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterOctober 16, 2010

The true Sonic fans(some goons who think they know everything about game design from some lame sonic specific site) seem to hate it! You know it's a good game! For being 1/2 or most likely 1/3 of the game I think it is pretty nice.

Mop it upOctober 16, 2010

Quote from: insanolord

Actually, if you have a 360, you can get Sonic 2, Sonic 3, and Sonic and Knuckles, each $5 on XBLA, for the price of this game.

This game costs more than what I paid for the Sonic Mega Collection a couple years back. Even if Sonic 4 were the best Sonic game yet, I'd still have difficulty justifying the price.

Knowing how much Sega likes to re-release Sonic games, it seems probable that an episodic compilation will be released at some point. I'd say it's more a matter of when, and that is largely dependent on when the next episodes get released. It could be a while.

CaterkillerMatthew Osborne, Contributing WriterOctober 24, 2010

I beat Episode 1 in its entirety and I had a good time. I loved the special stages, thats what actually took me so long and I enjoyed the last boss. They give you a tiny teaser of whats to come in part 2 at the end which was nice. Along with a rocket that was built by Tails, I can only assume he will be playable next time around, these 2 things have me anticipating the next game.

I really feel like this is to sonic what New Super Mario Bros DS was to Mario. I shame myself in that I could not bring myself to get all the golden coins as I was left a bit unsatisfied. But Sonic 4 gave me a satisfied feeling at 100% which I have not felt for a sonic game since SA2. But it in no way gives me that awesome feeling that NSMBW did. Hopefully if multiplayer is included in the next episodes it can be implimented well, with a camera that zooms in and out and some kind of auto tether on Tails to keep him near if need be.

GearBoxClockOctober 24, 2010

I can't help but feel that I can't see enough of the screen to enjoy it.
Otherwise, the demo was good.

Genre Adventure
Developer Sega
Players1
OnlineYes

Worldwide Releases

na: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Release Jul 2010
PublisherSega
jpn: Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1
Release Year 2010
PublisherSega
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