Author Topic: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng  (Read 58694 times)

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Offline Adrock

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Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« on: December 07, 2013, 03:29:08 PM »
There's been a lot of talk lately about what Nintendo has done wrong so I've been thinking lately of how to improve things for Nintendo's next home console.

I'm hoping this can start a nice discussion. A few things before we get started:

1. Please keep negativity to a minimum. If you hated motion controls, we've probably all heard it before. This is not the thread for that. Just accept that every future hardware from Nintendo is going to have it for legacy support.

2. Explain why you think something should be and why you think it would work.

3. Don't be a dick.

There will be a lot of blocks of text so I separated them into sections and put the main idea in bold.

Pick A Boring Name
Ideally, Nintendo would be wise to pick a name that doesn't start a discussion. It doesn't need a convoluted philosophy behind it. And don't confuse people. The name should exist just so people have something to call it. Honestly, I would just call it "Nintendo." If it really needs an identifier, put a 7 at the end of it. Nintendo 7. Or M for Machine. Nintendo M. Something simple.

The Operating System Shouldn't Be Slow Ever
Especially on day one.

Deep And Immediate Integration With 3DS' Successor
This should be done day one. We're already kind of seeing this with Nintendo combining their console and handheld teams and Miiverse being brought over to 3DS. They need to "talk" to each other. I would even go as far as having "4DS" function as a controller. That means it requires near parity with the new console's controller. Also, it means Nintendo must...

Unify The Virtual Console Between Handheld And Console
This is on everyone's wish list and it never should have been a issue to begin with. Since it is, here's how I propose handling it:

1. All Virtual Console games are tied to your Nintendo Network ID which are then transferable from Wii U and 3DS to their successors and their successors' successors. For free. And forever.
2. If a customer bought multiple versions of the game, they get 1/2 credit returned to their Nintendo Network eshop account on what they paid for the lowest priced version. For example, say someone bought Super Mario Bros. for $5 on Wii U and $3 on sale on 3DS. They would get $1.50 in credit.

I know some people will say that full credit for each additional version should be given, but I counter that with the fact that no one forced them to purchase more than one copy so getting something back is pretty fair.

Transition To x86-64
Nintendo is currently the only console maker that isn't on this instruction set. That is pretty much the best reason to drop PowerPC. Also, it means Nintendo can use off-the-shelf parts though I could see Nintendo having Intel or AMD customize the CPU for their purposes. There are many implications of this transition. For example...

Drop Hardware Backwards Compatibility
This means no previous discs or peripherals (namely the GamePad and Wii Remotes) will work on the new console at all. Put down the torches and pitchforks. It's for the greater good. Nintendo would need to include the Wii U chipset in the new console which ultimately would drive up the price. Nintendo will want to keep costs low for everything that's not directly affecting new software. I'm getting to that. Software emulation is key.

Start Writing Emulation Software Today
There should be full support on day one for every single legacy Nintendo platform. No exceptions. The emulation software should be universal instead of per game. Honestly, it would be ideal for Nintendo to have universal emulation software for other platforms ready as well, but Nintendo definitely needs to get their **** together on their own legacy platforms.

Digital Downloads Of Wii U Games Can Be Downloaded On The New Console For Free
It's only fair.

People Who Bought A Physical Copy Of A Wii U Game And Registered The Game On Club Nintendo Get A Discount On The Digital Version
Why only a discount? Because they can resell the physical copy and no one is forcing them to sell their Wii U. I feel like this would be a nice gesture. It's a privilege, not a right. Sony and Microsoft didn't and couldn't do this. And if they bought the discounted digital download, it would be tied to their Nintendo Network ID forever.

Of course, this would lock out most third party games, but you know, what third party games? There would be a silver lining I'll get to later.

Drop Discs Entirely, Use Cards Instead
This way no one is trying to ram a Wii U disc into the console since it won't have a disc drive. If Nintendo isn't ever going to support Blu Ray/DVD playback, they aren't taking advantage of the main benefit of a disc based system. Discs are cheaper, but we are moving into a digital future whether or not people, such as myself who prefer having physical copies, want this to happen so physical media is, unfortunately, becoming less important. Moving forward, I think cards are a better choice and prices for higher capacities are dropping even if they'll never match discs. There are additional benefits to adopting cards: faster loading, no moving parts (the fan notwithstanding), and studier media (plus whatever else I'm forgetting). If people want a physical copy, it's available, but the digital version should always be available the same day as well.

My understanding (and I admit, I could be wrong) is that PS4 requires users to install the entire game onto the hard drive which makes the game faster than reading it off the disc, but you still need the disc even though it's running off the hard drive. It's more like a digital download that allows easy lending which I guess is nice (even though they also need to install). It just seems like the Blu Ray Drive is mainly there for movies. I think it would be better for Nintendo to nix it.

Include A User Replaceable 4TB Hard Drive
Overkill? Maybe. We're entering a digital future. The price of such a hard drive should not be that expensive by the time a successor launches. Don't leave this up to consumers.

GamePad Pro
The new console needs to be able to support four of these simultaneously and at 60 frames per second. That means it's essentially functioning as splitscreen multiplayer in our hands. The console also needs to be able to run video streaming software like Netflix and any game simultaneously which shouldn't be a problem because Netflix isn't that taxing.

Naturally, improving battery life and shaving off as much weight as possible are givens.

And it should work as a universal remote. That's for you, BlackNMild.

Make All Controllers And Peripherals As Cheap As Possible
This is especially integral if no Wii or Wii U peripherals are compatible. This also means there would be no issue with consumer confusion. People would know what to buy and no one would ever think the new peripherals were for Wii U.

More importantly, Sony (and Microsoft) gained market share from Nintendo by changing the rules. Nintendo should consider doing the same. It's tempting to turn a major profit on controllers because people need those to play the games. Instead, take a smaller profit. Nintendo makes most of their profits as a publisher. Any way they can get more consoles into people's homes ultimately means more games can be sold. Nintendo likely priced the Pro Controller for parity with Sony and Microsoft's controllers even though it actually includes and does less. I think they can improve consumer perception by keeping costs low. It helps them stand out. What's more important is how the actual console is perceived which brings us to...

Ian's Favorite Topic: Specs
In a previous post, I mentioned that Nintendo traditionally chooses hardware they sell in the $200 to $250 range. If you do the math, that's pretty much where Wii U is when you take the GamePad and selling at a loss into account.

Let's say Nintendo launches a successor in 2017, five years after Wii U. While I'm not sure how true this is, I've read that PS4's specs are the equivalent of a mid-tier 2012/2013 PC. It's not cutting edge technology for its time like PS3 was. The bill of materials is estimated at $380 so they're losing money but a far more modest amount. That said, I'd like to see Nintendo's next console in the range of a mid-tier PC in 2017. That would be noticably more powerful than PS4/One. I'm not a spec whore and I'm content with how games look today. I thoroughly enjoy my Wii U so this isn't a commentary on its specs. However, I am going to suggest something in the next section that makes better specs more of a priority.

Before that, here's how I'm going to justify a $400 Nintendo console in 2017 with a greater loss per unit than Nintendo has ever taken: I'll be 30 next year. So? This means I've been a Nintendo fan and have been playing Nintendo games for most of my life. While my parents, who didn't really have videogames growing up, would have laughed at the idea of spending $400 on a videogame console, I might not. It may take some time to save that money, but for Mario and Zelda, I'd probably find a way. I feel like Nintendo hasn't completely considered the fact that people who were raised on Nintendo games most likely still play Nintendo games as adults. They can buy their own consoles and games now. And when they have kids, even if their kids want Halo, the kids always have exposure to Nintendo games. Nintendo fans have shown themselves to be a pretty devoted bunch and what people are willing to spend on videogames has increased over the years. I like saving money, but I also like Nintendo games. The latter usually wins eventually. Nintendo likes keeping prices down, but they can probably get away with a more expensive machine based almost entirely on the fact that they're Nintendo. The key is that people have to think the hardware is worth the money. Many people didn't buy into the idea that 3DS was worth $250. If Nintendo ever launched a $400 console, it has to be worth $400.

I would never advocate Nintendo take the several hundred dollars worth of losses on hardware that Sony and Microsoft did last generation. I'm a little apprehensive about suggesting they take a larger one than they did on Wii U, but since they've taken a loss before, maybe this is not such a bad idea. Hiroshi Yamauchi once said that people "do not play with the game machine itself. They play with the software, and they are forced to purchase a game machine in order to use the software. Therefore, the price of the machine should be as cheap as possible." The hardware should be affordable for what it is and the types of games people are trying to play. As previously stated, Nintendo makes most of their profits as a publisher. When a consumer buys Nintendo hardware, 100% of the time they're buying it for Nintendo software (and maybe something like Monster Hunter). Nintendo will make that money back and will do so sooner if they sell more consoles. Of course, they're going to have to find a way to make the console more attractive to a greater number of consumers. They need better public perception which comes from having a wider selection of games. How do they get that?

Run Steam
Hear me out. And I understand that this is easier said than done. I don't know how they would implement it though I would think it would involve SteamOS somehow. It would require Nintendo to do a lot of things they either have been too stubborn to do or haven't figured out how to do effectively.

There has been talk of some kind of Steam support in the past, rumors before launch and that Toki Tori 2+ thing. The way I imagine it is that consumers link their Steam account to their Nintendo Network ID and access a joint Nintendo-Valve developed eshop. The only way this works is if it's under one umbrella. It can't be like Wii U's Wii Mode where you have to access it separately. This brings with it a few implications:

1. Nintendo's OS always runs in the background. The console automatically and seamlessly recognizes a Steam game.
2. Steam games on the eshop are labelled "Brought to you by Steam." Nintendo games are labelled "Only for Nintendo."
3. "Steam on Nintendo" functionally performs as Steam on anything else. All sales and bundles are available. Steam users can download any game already on their account as well as new games on their Nintendo console. Any controller compatible with Steam can be used with Steam games (compatibility with Nintendo's controller is, of course, imperative). Steam users who buy a Steam game on their Nintendo console can also download the same game on any other device they own that can play Steam games.
4. Steam games can be played using off-screen play.
5. Not sure if third parties would support this, but it would be awesome if a third party digital download (including Virtual Console) was purchased on Wii U and it's also available on Steam, linking a Steam account will allow that game to be downloaded on any other device they own that can play Steam games.

There would be one notable and obvious caveat: Nintendo's own games are not sold through Steam. They will always only be available and playable on Nintendo hardware which is what Nintendo wants. The reason why they have their own hardware is so they can control their software. There would be two stores for digital downloads masquerading as one store.

Essentially, Nintendo would be building a lower tier Steam Machine that also plays Nintendo games. That's why they should transition to x86-64 and include more powerful hardware. Better specs alone is not going to bring third parties back to Nintendo consoles. That could involve months of negotiations and possibly payouts and incentives. I think Nintendo can just skip that process by having a machine that can run past and current Steam games. More importantly, it would be beneficial if it was powerful enough to run future games decently. Eventually a few years down the road, games won't run as well on it, but isn't this still better than what Nintendo has now? They would have a wealth of content right from the beginning. Not every third party game on PS4/One comes to Steam, but this improves Nintendo's selection of games exponentially and perhaps more third party PS4/One games would come to Steam sooner rather than later.

This also brings Nintendo up to speed with the rest of the industry with what Steam provides as long as voice chat and stuff like that is also integrated into their own games.

Third Parties
Let's get this out of the way: Nintendo MUST reach out to third parties and keep them informed. That has to change.

If Nintendo adds some weird new thing, let them know as early as possible. That way they can do something about it. I'm curious what it could be since Nintendo's additions such as touch, motion, second screen, and 3D are all based on ideas they wanted to implement earlier but couldn't due to technology not being where they needed it to be. Maybe 3rd parties wouldn't use it, but they should know it's there.

The most obvious question is: Why would third parties ever pay Nintendo licensing fees or for physical media when they could just release a game on Steam? The short answer is: the vast majority of the time, they wouldn't. Nintendo would be taking the stance of "Make games for us if you want and we'll support you in any way we can. If not, also fine." Technically, third parties wouldn't really have to deal with Nintendo directly; they would be under Valve's terms and conditions. Perhaps some third parties would like to take advantage of Nintendo's own exclusive features like Miiverse or GamePad support. Or they could be trying to reach the strictly physical media people, but realistically, that would be Ubisoft and Activision if they would even do it at all. Otherwise, through Steam, a metric ****-ton of third parties' games would be available on a Nintendo console without them technically paying Nintendo a dime. Maybe Nintendo could get a cut through a deal with Valve.

The second most obvious question is: Why would Nintendo ever do this? Besides "they probably wouldn't," they stand to benefit greatly through Steam implementation. The more consoles they sell, the more software they sell, the more money they make. Third parties could pay Nintendo to advertise their games available through Steam on Miiverse. This enables a lot of possibilities. Nintendo still gets to keep complete control of every aspect of their hardware and the distribution of their own titles by relenting control on what third parties do. The hardware just needs to be capable of running Steam. Nintendo would get third party support without really having to deal with them. They lose out on licensing fees, but how is that really different from today when support is so anemic? Sure, sometimes PC games are released late. So what? Most of the time, Nintendo isn't even getting those games. Ultimately, I think Nintendo can live with all of that. What Nintendo would really be doing is continue to exist in their bubble while letting everyone else do whatever they hell they want but doing so on the same console.

Origin
No.

-----

Do I think Nintendo would ever do all of this? Absolutely not. They're too worried about total control and policing how people use their products (e.g. Swapnote). Still, I find it fun to think about.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2013, 12:06:25 AM by Adrock »

Offline the asylum

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2013, 04:12:20 PM »
I had no problem with motion controls. I actually like the Wii U controller. Strange as it may sound coming from me, I also think that developers have no problem with motion controls- the only reason why the Wii never got killer aps like Borderlands or ME was its pathetic hardware.

but here's my wish list:

1. System power- The Wii got written off by big studios because of "DERP TWO GAMECUBES TAPED TOGETHER HURR" mindset. A poor mindset, sure, but if developers dont like a system, they won't bother with it. Hence, the flood of shovelware that plagued the Wii. Wii U being written off in much the same manner, only it doens't have the sales number to justify it. The 3DS got away with it because it's a handheld, which always will be inferior to home consoles.

2. Digital purchases tied to accounts, not hardware. Steam got it right, Microsoft got it right, hell, even EA got it right. EA. Its stuff like this that perpetuates the idea that Nintendo has no idea what decade it is.

3. One controller. ONE. Nobody likes having to buy two or three different controllers for the same system

3a. And on that note, whatever controller Nintendo does go with, make sure the system can support 4 of them at once.

seriously

they shouldnt have to be told this.

4. Drop the "wii" name. The word "Wii" has become incurably toxic to third parties. And it sounds stupid too.

Offline TheBossGaro

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2013, 07:39:08 PM »
I don't see the Wii U name as such a huge issue. Truthfully, the only people who don't know it's a new console are the "casual/non gamers" that put the Wii sales through the roof, and I'd be willing to bet they don't care about a new console anyway.

Consider this: the concept of next gen is pretty much exclusive to the video game industry. Sure, all forms of technology from TVs to cars advance, but its much more gradual. I can still drive my 89 Ford Ranger without any problems. The need to be current is not as important. Thus, to a non gamer, they probably apply the same principle to gaming systems. They can continue to play Wii Sports on the Wii and enjoy it without having to buy a new console. That's all they bought it for anyway.

I think Nintendo's problem is continuing to reach out to the casual gamer. They sort of bottled lightning with the Wii. It's not gonna happen again. They need to fully turn their focus back to the hardcore gamers who kept them afloat every generation before the Wii. And they all know the Wii U is a new console.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2013, 07:42:42 PM by TheBossGaro »

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2013, 09:19:31 PM »
Fun Topic.  I agree with most of your suggestions, but I will make a few new ones.

1) Card based games are a must for what you mentioned, but I will say another benefit.  Handheld/console cross play.  Here is my idea.  Do not have a single system console/portable, but have two systems, and scalable games.  Basically, each game is playable on the console and portable.  Graphics and effects can be scalable so that the next Mario games can be played on both systems.  Now, I know what you are thinking.  HORRIBLE idea, because people will not buy both systems.  I say bull.  I say, being able to have games on the big screen at home and on the go is a game changer, that allows for people to pick how they want to play their games.

2) Virtual Console support and unified account.  I think this is important.  Unify everything.  Allow gamers to add up to 5 devices to your accounts and your downloaded games can be played on all those.  Go the Apple route and position yourself as a true FAMILY console.  You buy digital Pokemon for the system.  Great, your entire family can play it now.  Obviously, this is only for download only games...which helps promote digital only sells.

3)  Controllers:  Keep the Wii U Pro controller untouched and the default classic controller for games.  Phase out the Gamepad controller AND the classic Wii motion remote for an updated one.  Which will be described below.  I agree controllers should be cheaper.  So I think controllers should be priced less than a new game.  And continue bonus packages of classic Pro controllers with games. 

4)  The entire controller in one purchase.  The Wiimote and nunchuk are awesome, and New motion controls need to be the entire package and viewed as a single entity not an add on.  I think the remote can be refined.  I think the refinement should be focused on adding 2 more buttons for actions.  One on top, and one more trigger.  If that is not possible, two more on top.  Think Gamecube design big button and two bean shaped buttons.  Nunchuk should have more motion accuracy.

5)I said they should drop Gamepad support, and also integrate the handheld system and game console together...and here is where my ideas come together.  The new handheld should be cheap.  Like top price $150.00  To make this price possible.  Nintendo should cut 3D out of the system...and design it to only be just alittle more powerful than the current 3DS at most a 3DS X 2.0.  This will allow the new DS system to replace the Gamepad controller at a reasonable price, but also play games on the go.  Priced as a bargain, and parents and gamers seeing the system as an extension of their console system it will sell very well.

6)  Modern design for online features.  I like Nintendo's user interfaces whimsical design, and I think it should be kept, but I think Nintendo needs to make a progressive modern take on internet play and communication.  Suggestions could include:  Using FaceTime protocols for video chat, and allowing Nintendo to video chat with all iphone devices.  For that matter, see about getting on the iphone messenger service for chat and communication.  Incorporate it also into the new handheld.  Build all match making, cross game chat, video, voice, all communications into the many operating system and not games.  If I am playing Zelda single player I should be able to join a chat with my friends playing Smash Bros, if we all want to talk together. 

7)  To hell with 3rd parties.  Go for Exclusives.  Now, I don't mean don't pursue 3rd parties.  I mean take a different approach.  My vision is two unified systems that play nicely together.  Buy a console game and it plays the portable game.  Buy the digitial game once, and you can play it with up to 5 registered systems.  This means all Nintendo development teams are working for the same system.  Push games out hard and fast of varying budgets and sizes.  Give your teams creativity to build simple puzzle games and release them when they are ready.  Now, about those 3rd parties?  Commission them to design classic Nintendo games, or hand pick them to design exclusive console experiences.  I don't mean to moneybag huge multi-million dollar classics.  But instead, look to fund small digital releases like the Konami rebirth series or Mega Man 9 and 10 games.  Use it to release smaller budget games that will bring interest to the system. 

8)  As for system specs I don't care.  You don't have to jump as high as Microsoft and Sony, just try better than the Wii U. 


Offline MagicCow64

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2013, 05:40:04 PM »
I actually like that Steam fusion idea quite a bit. As you said, it sidesteps the massive and probably uncorrectable disconnect between Nintendo and most publishers. It's also a nice compromise between settling into a permanent Nintendobox niche and going third party themselves. The way the tech world is going anyway, I have my doubts that isolated consoles are going to be viable anyway in five years. This arrangement, or something in that ballpark, might not be outside the realm of possibility given how restless stockholders are going to get in the next few years.


My dog:


Forget virtual console purchases altogether, past and future. Buying a Nintendo-Steam-Phantom box grants you streaming access to the entire NES-Gamecube library on the console itself. They've milked most of the old titles enough, and if their install base keeps shrinking they won't make significant VC revenue anyway. And a lot of the contemporary Dewrito Nintendo haters still love the old stuff, so this could win back some mindshare. The fact that Sony didn't totally try to screw over the consumer off the bat with the PS4 earned them an enormous amount of goodwill.


Not sure how you'd do Wii and Wii U software, though, given that in such a scenario the legacy peripherals wouldn't work anymore, and the viability of reliably streaming post-Gamecube era games is questionable.

Offline Stogi

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2013, 06:05:15 PM »
EDIT: I'm gonna make this a new topic.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2013, 06:20:13 PM by Stogi »
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2013, 08:29:42 PM »
Actually if next system Nintendo decided to charge for online.  I think a good way to provide value would be to allow streaming of classic NES and SNES games for the fee of the online service.  You can still have the option to buy the game which could be used to allow play offline, and on your portable. 

I could see Nintendo taking this all the way to the Nintendo 64.  No real need to take it all the way to Gamecube though...however if Nintendo chose to do that I would be all for it.

Offline Adrock

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2013, 08:47:04 PM »
HORRIBLE idea, because people will not buy both systems.  I say bull.  I say, being able to have games on the big screen at home and on the go is a game changer, that allows for people to pick how they want to play their games.
Some people would buy both. I, personally, wouldn't. The only reason I buy Nintendo's handhelds is because I can't play those games elsewhere, notably on Nintendo's home console.
Quote
As for system specs I don't care.  You don't have to jump as high as Microsoft and Sony, just try better than the Wii U.
Personally, I don't care about them. At the same time, they matter to the people making games and I think it says a lot about the disconnect between Nintendo and third parties when Nintendo decides, "Here are the specs. Make games now," instead of asking them what their thoughts are. Of course, developers will always ask for the best specs, but that's why communication is key. Bounce ideas back and forth, meet halfway, and so on.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2013, 09:41:56 PM »
Adrock.  You are a perfect example about the market.  Some people only play console games...so they will only buy the console.  Some people will only buy the handheld.  That is OK too.  Because now they have an easy choice for their second system.  Buy a Nintendo, it doesn't matter which one, because you can play all their games. 

Now, some people will end up buying both the console and the handheld and they actually get the best deal out of their loyalty because they can buy a game once and play it both places.  On the go, and at home. 

As for system specs, I do think they are important, which is why I said to do better than the Wii U.  However, I do not think it is the only element, and as such they should do better, but they do not have to best or equal...just present something that is capable. 

And of course communication is key. 


Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2013, 09:48:05 PM »
I like my idea of a handheld/home console hybrid better.

It's primarily a handheld with a base station that connects it to the TV.
base station also allows multiple handhelds to work for multiplayer on the TV

I elaborated on it somewhere, if I run across it, I'll crosspost it.
But I also like alot of the ideas in the OP.

Offline Wah

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2013, 10:02:34 PM »
I agree that the WiiU should be able to run STEAM!
Imagine it! TF2 and Counter-Strike and Gary's Mod and Half-Life and Left for Dead all on the WiiU!
Made you look ****.

Offline ShyGuy

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2013, 10:08:29 PM »
I think the handheld/home console hybrid is the best way to to go, perhaps 2 models.

A five inch model with no TV module for $150-$200

A seven inch model with the TV module and sensor bar and a game for $250-$350

Dolphin Style emulation

Offline nickmitch

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2013, 11:26:05 PM »
If Nintendo HAD to go with a new controller, I'd like them to go back to the GC design. Add the extra Z-button, make the C-stick more like a regular stick, increase the size of the D-Pad, and maybe make a few other changes.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2013, 12:09:34 AM »
I like my idea of a handheld/home console hybrid better.

It's primarily a handheld with a base station that connects it to the TV.
base station also allows multiple handhelds to work for multiplayer on the TV

I elaborated on it somewhere, if I run across it, I'll crosspost it.
But I also like alot of the ideas in the OP.

I like your idea as well, however I don't think Nintendo will go for it.  I like the idea of a charge station, docking bay that makes it a console.  I like cards so that the medium is fast and sturdy. 

However, I think my idea is a compromise of ideas that brings both solutions.  Nintendo wants to sell as many consoles as possible, and sell multiple handhelds per family...if possible.  Gamers want more games and and value.  Nintendo wants to rebuild its strength in the console market, and keep its handheld dominance.  It solves all those solutions.

Offline sweetfeathery

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2013, 01:09:28 AM »
One of Nintendo's biggest problems this generation is releasing a steady flow of games on two separate consoles. Nintendo can do away with this problem by having only one console to work with. Why not have a beefed up, more powerful 3DS handheld that can also be played on the television using an adapter?

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2013, 03:18:16 PM »
Adrock, you're pretty much describing what I wanted the Wii U to be.  I would probably stick with discs but aside from that I agree with this rest.  Hell it isn't even discs or cards, it's what is the rest of the industry doing.  If they're sticking with discs you go with discs.  If everyone else is moving to cards you sure as hell don't be the only guys using discs.

I think the philosophy going into the design is to assume that this will be the only current console that a person owns.  Therefore any inadequacy in comparison to the other consoles on the market is damaging to the user's experience.  Nintendo consoles since the N64 have asked their users to cut them slack and live with missing features.  Please make do with higher prices for games without FMV or red book audio.  Please make do without online multiplayer.  Please make do without HD graphics and games that look almost indistinguishable from the previous generation.  Please make do with games that look like they're from the previous generation, uh, again.  And of course all of this involves making do with weak third party support and lots of basic stuff being done in a goofy Nintendo manner for seemingly no reason.  Frankly it's somewhat miraculous that a company that always asks their customers to accept compromises that no one else does managed to survive three generations of this and only now are finding themselves in trouble.

So the features that everyone else has need to be there.  The hardware needs to be comparable.  The third party support has to be comparable.  The online experience has to be comparable.  If one was to make a features checklist for all three consoles, Nintendo's goal should be to not have N/A appear under their column or if a ranking was made for them to be last.  Now these things will happen anyway but the goal should be to avoid them.  With the Wii U they didn't TRY to avoid being worst in specs.  That was intentional design.  It was a compromise they were asking their customers to cut them slack on.  Anyway they have to make a favourable comparison and do what is necessary to achieve that.

Oh, but doesn't Nintendo need to stand out?  That's why they went with the Wiimote and Gamepad, right?  The thing is that Nintendo is a better first party developer than anyone else.  Same general thing but with Nintendo games is a selling point!  The difference between Sony and MS appears to be the exclusives and Nintendo already wins there.  They wouldn't even need third party exclusives.  They just need to be included in the multiplatform releases and let their own titles make the difference.

Now Nintendo won't do it because they're stubborn and kind of greedy.  They might not feel they even CAN release such a console.  So in that sense the console/handheld hybrid is probably the better idea.  They really just have to make the handheld they normally would and just let it output to a TV and connect to additional controllers.  I think this is the future anyway, the question is just when it will be.  Maybe next gen or maybe we'll get another gen of "normal" consoles first.  If it is the future then the other guys will go to it at some point or a new competitor like Apple will lead the way.

I realize that my console suggestion applies mostly to what makes sense for right now, as if Nintendo was to try to get a Wii U successor out by late 2014.  In 2020 who knows what will make sense?  The hybrid might be the best idea.  The philosophy of not intentionally having compromises will work in any time period however.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 07:55:57 PM by Ian Sane »

Offline Ceric

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2013, 03:39:49 PM »
At this day and age if I were to release a new console I peg whatever the most taxing game is on PC today.  Then get hardware that has an easy time running it in 1080p 60FPS 3D Max Settings.  That should set me up well for when I actually release.  If you keep the Gamepad then also with 4 Gamepads AT THE SAME TIME pumping max resolution unique content on each screen 60FPS.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2013, 04:56:40 PM »
Found my previous post

Yeah, I'm sure the next DS/Handheld will be some Gameboy Ultra that doubles as a Wii U Controller, plays Wii U games, and is essentially the portable handheld version of the Wii U in the form of it's own GamePad with a little extra added to it.
This will be their "3rd Pillar"  of the gen and an experiment to phase out the failing Wii U by merging it with their successful handheld business.

This new handheld portable console will also have a Chromecast-like device that will allow streaming of content (2nd screen) directly to your TV using an additional HDMI port. It will be the size of a Roku just because Nintendo wants some brand presence on your shelf. It will also handle multiplayer family/party games by also allowing the use of wiimotes and connection of the sensor bar (Just Dance, Wii Sports, etc etc)

All to be announced in 2015.
you heard it here first.


Essentially Nintendo would be making a Wii U++ about the size of a slightly larger PS Vita (and smaller than the current gamepad - it has to be portable).

The Base (aka TVbox) unit to be more of an entertainment box (like a Roku) that can be used with just the Wiimotes if need be, but only for basic gaming, such as VC and simple download games, and entertainment apps, like Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Vudu, etc etc. Any complex gaming will require the Handheld Portable Controller as that is where the processing power is at.

Multiplayer/splitscreen gaming on the TV would go through the TVbox to display up on the TV.

The Handheld will function much like if the gamepad were it's own handheld system, completely independent of the TVbox. Portable, Wifi, SD card support, Unified Nintendo Acct/Username, VC games, DLC, Apps, Chat, Miiverse, Internet Browser, wireless multiplayer, front and back camera, touchscreen, same buttons, etc etc. all the same features and then some.
When connected to the base station it will work much like the GamePad and the Wii U only with more multi-tasking freedom as both units can work independent of each other. Yet the base station aka TVBox is not a complete system w/o the handheld portable/controller.

The beauty of this approach is that everyone will want their own portable/controller as any of them will work with the base (like the first wiimote activated takes the #1 position). The Family Acct will allow all family registered portables/controllers that connect through the base station to access from the same pool of purchased software regardless of which actual personal acct bought them (Parental Controls supersedes access though). So now each individual not only has their own personal Universal Remote (major selling point) for whatever controllable device in the house, but they also have thier own personal customized entertainment device and game machine that only has what they want on it organized the way they want it.

Separate base stations (TVboxes) sold separately, for like the price of a Roku ($75-$99). bundle comes with wiimote+ for basic usage.

penetrating 3 markets with 1 device.
Portable Gaming. Console Gaming. Smart Box/TV.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2013, 07:47:17 PM »
Black and Mild:  Your vision and my vision are very similar. 

I feel like you look at the TV Box to being basically an Apple TV, with a docking system and a small hard drive in it.   I can totally agree with that approach.  Then the handheld is the main brains. 

It basically takes the concept of the Wii U, and switches it.  the brains are not in the box connected to the TV, but the controller.

I think the big problem with this approach is you can micro-size the computer enough to be powerful enough to be a next generation system, AND a portable.  So making the handheld device the smaller $150-$199 game system is a better direction.  Then the console will be more powerful, but also look and feel like a more traditional console system...but still have a docking system. 

Media will be SD like cards that store games basically like the 3DS, but with higher capacity. 

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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2013, 08:07:26 PM »
Yes, you could think of it as the Apple TV & iPhone approach.
That's a very good way of simplifying it.

Everyone will have thier own iPhone, and you can all share the Apple TV using your iPhone as  the controller.

And of course the Apple TV has its own remote so you can use it without the use of an iPhone.

Offline Mannypon

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2013, 08:14:01 PM »
I'm also in the camp of BlacknMild and Spak-Spang in I believe Nintendo is headed towards merging their 2 tier strategy.  Given they are now trying to unify their development process throughout the company I believe they are looking to have their handheld developers and home console developers on the same page so their work can easily apply to one side or the other (both).  In another 5 years, I believe they'll be the tech possible to create a handheld system we all speak of. 

SPECS:  With this approach, you can completely forget Nintendo staying spec to spec with the other 2 players unless they too are taking Nintendo's approach.  I personally think Nintendo will always stay 1 "generation" behind spec wise as 1: they don't need it themselves and 2: it'll be too expensive to match MS and Sony's next home consoles while still remain portable. 

NAME:  As for the name, I think the Wii brand is dead.  They tried to further build on it with the WiiU but its clear that the Wii crowd is long gone; probably moved on towards tablets, mobile games, are not gaming anymore, or quite possibly still using their Wiis.  I would love Nintendo to just keep it simple and follow the number system the others use.  Call it the N7 (Nintendo 7th gen entertainment system).  Its easy to remember, rolls off the lips, and should look good as a logo (I can't help but think of Mass Effect lol)

Here's an image for reference for those that don't know


As for the base console, I think they should release one that looks sleek, small, and modern.  For the initial launch, play off the nostalgia of your fan base and release a limited edition, only for initial preorders, NES skinned model. 

Here's another image for reference, though the base console will probably be much smaller. 



EVERYTHING ELSE:
I like everything else you have all stated in regards to accounts and the VC, slap that all in and this complete package is sold (at least to me lol). 
« Last Edit: December 09, 2013, 08:18:33 PM by Mannypon »

Offline Adrock

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2013, 12:46:32 AM »
Adrock, you're pretty much describing what I wanted the Wii U to be.  I would probably stick with discs but aside from that I agree with this rest.  Hell it isn't even discs or cards, it's what is the rest of the industry doing.  If they're sticking with discs you go with discs.  If everyone else is moving to cards you sure as hell don't be the only guys using discs.
I described a very consumer-friendly device. Sony and Microsoft aren't even doing all of those things. I tried to think of a machine that encourages the purchase of actual games above all things. That's why I suggested that Nintendo go against the grain and offer cheaper controllers. Those things are obscenely expensive. People may justify buying an extra game if the extra controller they bought was $25 instead of $55. I don't believe in powerful hardware for the sake of powerful hardware or for porting through sheer brute force. It has to be justified. And if third parties still refused to develop for it, that doubly sucks for Nintendo since they'd be on their own and have to make up for a greater loss per unit. However, if Nintendo could get better third party support by going through the backdoor, that's something that might be worth it.

Anyway, I don't know if just following the rest of the industry is necessarily the best way. In some circumstances, sure, but it also encourages stagnation. It's important to strike a balance. Since games are just being installed on a hard drive on PS4, I feel like discs as a vessel for game data is kind wasteful. Cards offer clear benefits over discs in everything except price and in this scenario, Nintendo would mostly be the only ones using them. Of course, if a third party wanted to offer a retail version, it would help everyone if Nintendo wasn't a dick about the storage medium like they were with N64 cartridges.
I'm also in the camp of BlacknMild and Spak-Spang in I believe Nintendo is headed towards merging their 2 tier strategy.  Given they are now trying to unify their development process throughout the company I believe they are looking to have their handheld developers and home console developers on the same page so their work can easily apply to one side or the other (both).  In another 5 years, I believe they'll be the tech possible to create a handheld system we all speak of.
I'm still not sold at all on a hybrid system. I've stated reasons for it before. I'd rather Nintendo keep them separate because I don't know if they could pull it off. If they could, by all means, go for it. Otherwise, they work well as separate entities; they just need more interaction and integration. If I played Final Fantasy VI on 4DS, when I walk through my door, my save data should be updated on my Nintendo 7. If I Streetpassed a bunch of people, when I walk through my door, they should show up in my WaraWara Plaza. If I'm at my mom's house and I buy a Nintendo 7 eshop game from my 4DS, maybe it'll already be downloaded and installed by the time I get home.

Offline smallsharkbigbite

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2013, 11:34:03 AM »
I don't think most consumers consider accessory price when they come to consoles. The 360 had Live at 50 required for multiplayer games. Assuming you want that (most gamers would) that became an 800 console. But that sold like hotcakes over the ps3 because people saw 600 > 400. I wish we would go back to packing 2 controllers with a system though. That would be good enough for most people.

Yeah I don't think the hybrid is where it's going and that's been discussed at great lengths before. I see the long term console future moving to cheap streaming boxes like on-live and not being able to provide enough power for mobile gaming without the cloud. Obviously we are not there yet.

I am starting to think though that Nintendo is prepping to replace the Wii U. Not changing obviously flawed targets indicates to me they are going to do something. My guess is they are prepping a console replacement either this holiday or for spring of 2015. I think they'll try to sell it a two pronged strategy where the Wii U is tablet gaming and the successor if for traditional gaming and they'll both coexist. Not that they will coexist, but I think they have to try to appease Wii U owners that it wasn't a wasted purchase. I think their first party titles will get released for both the Wii U and the new machine for at least a year before they let the Wii U die.

I think it's best to keep expectations low for changes that Nintendo will make. I also think that all the changes to hardware won't matter if they dont work hard to get third parties on board.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Something Something Wii U Successor Somethng
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2013, 12:31:50 PM »
I highly doubt Nintendo has a replacement home console system in the works for 1 year from now.

It is much more likely that Nintendo would pursue the hybrid portable route (in 2016) to succeed the 3DS and phase out a failing Wii U than attempt to replace the Wii U after its second full year on the market. (Nintendo would NEVER Dreamcast themselves... would they!?)

And to talk about keeping expectations low for changes that Nintendo would make...
Killing a console really early with a replacement is a big change to make. I would bet on quirky and innovative before I bet on that.