Author Topic: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?  (Read 15853 times)

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Offline Kytim89

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Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« on: May 13, 2011, 02:05:43 AM »
With the reveal of the Super Wii at this year's E3 next month, rumours are abound and one thought that has been racing in mind is whether the Super Wii will be the second coming of the SNES? Nintendo has supposedly revealed that their new HD console will look like a modern SNES, but what I am really getting at is will the Super Wii have the third party support that the SNES had in its day? I find it ironic that we are approaching the twentieth anniverssary of the SNES launch and we have a new console that could potentially bring Nintendo back on top of the gaming industry once again.
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2011, 02:26:10 AM »
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Offline Dasmos

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2011, 07:22:36 AM »
"Potentially bring Nintendo back on top of the gaming industry once again."

What?

Where have you been the last 5 years? Nintendo is at the top of the gaming industry. It's laughable to suggest otherwise.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2011, 07:32:36 AM »
To answer the topic question, "no, it probably won't be."  The games industry isn't what it was when the SNES came out and Nintendo had a near-monopoly (as opposed to the total monopoly with the NES) on the games industry that ensured 3rd party support.  Plus, Nintendo's had 3 generations of poor 3rd party supporto, and I don't see that as entirely related to the technical problems of the last 3 generations of Nintendo console hardware.  If I was in charge of a big 3rd party developer, I don't know if I'd give Nintendo a 4th try at releasing hardware with a consumer base that would actually buy my software.

For the moment, I'm very much in a "wait and see" approach with this next Nintendo console.  I've been burned too many times by Nintendo over the years to be altogether optimistic that next-generation will be any different, especially if you believe the early rumors like the weak 8 GB storage limit.  Let's see what Nintendo announces at E3 before branding this console as anything other than yet another Nintendo console.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 07:55:41 AM by broodwars »
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2011, 08:23:39 AM »
Nintendo wasn't a "Near monopoly" when the SNES launched.  The Genesis had a two-year head-start on the SNES and the SNES was launched in direct response to the sales and attention the Genesis was getting.

As for third-party support... developers were generally thrilled to jump ship to the Genesis, once it was shown they could sell as many/more copies on the Genesis as they could on the NES - and without all the crazy Nintendo restrictions/demands.
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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2011, 03:01:55 PM »
It's the second coming of the Gamecube.

Offline Lithium

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2011, 07:18:47 PM »
I thought that the Nintendo Wii would be the second coming of the NES
turned out it was the second coming of the Atari.

Right now its too early to tell with the Wii's sucessor, let's come back to this discussion when e3 rolls around.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2011, 07:21:46 PM by Lithium »

Offline Kytim89

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2011, 01:08:30 AM »
What I meant by a return of the SNES is that games from Nintendo and third parties will be reinvigorated. All of the series that we love today became what they are today mainly from being on the SNES. That is when standards that many games follow today were established. What I want is a return to the same quality of games on Nintendo's Super Wi console. In my gut, I see the Wii as partially doing this in it's own way, but ultimatly failed due to many thins like storage and support from third parties.
 
Look at the abscence of RPGs on the Wii compared to that of the SNES. This is naother reason for why I want a return to the SNES era. I want RPGs to the tune of FF6 and Chrono Trigger for the Super Wii. Even though they are Wii games, Last Story, Xenoblade and Pandora's Tower give me hope that pursue RPG development for the Super Wii, which might spur other developers to do the same. Of course there should be no shouvelware crap, but good quality games.
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Offline rad.i.kal

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2011, 02:51:10 AM »
I am pretty amped for it, but it is hard to say really!


Will it do as well as snes or nes? will it be too gimmicky?

Offline Mop it up

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2011, 03:30:13 PM »
No generation has ever exactly mirrored another one... but I think there are some similarities between the NES and Wii, and there will be similarities between the SNES and the next Nintendo system. Like the SNES expanded on the NES, the next system will be an evolution of the Wii, rather than a total overhaul/revolution like the Nintendo 64/PlayStation era. Likewise, there's going to be more competition in the market, so the next system won't sell as many units as the Wii, just as the SNES sold less than its predecessor.

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2011, 04:18:48 PM »
Mop it up's post kinda got me thinking...

The NES (1) was a complete overhaul in comparison to what was on the market pre-Nintendo.
The SNES (2) was an evolution of the NES (1).
The N64 (3) was a complete overhaul in comparison to the SNES (2) and NES (1).
The GameCube (4) was an evolution of what the N64 (3) offered.
Then Wii (5) was a complete overhaul in comparison to what the GameCube (4) and N64(3) offered.
Will (6) just be an evolution of what the Wii (5) offered?

tl;dr:
(1) Revolution
(2) Evolution
(3) Revolution
(4) Evolution
(5) Revolution
(6) ...Evolution?
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Offline Stogi

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2011, 05:13:58 PM »
Haven't we discussed this exact thing in considerable depth before?
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Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2011, 08:56:12 PM »
Again, if the rumor specs are true (which I doubt) then no.  For one, 3rd developers don't seem to be all that warm for it mainly because of how poorly their games sell on past nintendo consoles so they are "wait and see".

And two, if the specs are true it's going be slightly more powerful than the current gen.  At best you'll get alot of ports from games that we're currently playing and those exclusive games that it does get will most likely target the casual market again.

So really if you want a true SNES rebirth then you better horde 3rd party games like crazy. 


Offline Snake-Arms

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2011, 10:15:48 PM »
It won't be the second coming of the SNES; it will be the Super Nintendo Ultra WiiCube 64, an amalgam of their entire console portfolio.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2011, 10:25:09 PM »
tl;dr:
(1) Revolution
(2) Evolution
(3) Revolution
(4) Evolution
(5) Revolution
(6) ...Evolution?


Haven't we discussed this exact thing in considerable depth before?

Several times...

Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2011, 10:28:00 PM »
Again, if the rumor specs are true (which I doubt) then no.  For one, 3rd developers don't seem to be all that warm for it mainly because of how poorly their games sell on past nintendo consoles so they are "wait and see".

And two, if the specs are true it's going be slightly more powerful than the current gen.  At best you'll get alot of ports from games that we're currently playing and those exclusive games that it does get will most likely target the casual market again.

So really if you want a true SNES rebirth then you better horde 3rd party games like crazy. 

I'm guessing you haven't seen the latest rumors from IGN then.  If the recent rumors are true then that means the Cafe is going to be miles ahead of the 360/PS3 in terms of power and will easily be able to hold it's own against anything Microsoft and Sony might try to release in 2013/2014 like the PS2 could against the Gamecube and Xbox.

Oh and the argument that third party games didn't sell on Nintendo systems is completely false.  Most major third party titles that have been released on a Nintendo console have sold quite well.  The only third party games that bomb on Nintendo systems are the shitty year old ports, shitty spin-offs that nobody wanted, or extremely niche titles that would have bomb on the other systems as well.
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Offline Ymeegod

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2011, 10:43:18 PM »
"Most major third party titles that have been released on a Nintendo console have sold quite well"

Falls down laughing.  That's the best joke on the net :).


Offline NWR_insanolord

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2011, 12:07:55 AM »
The thing is, there really aren't many examples of what he's talking about on the Wii. How many AAA games that appeal to a mainstream audience have third parties released on Wii?
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2011, 12:34:54 AM »
obligatory link to 3rd Party Wall of Shame.....

Offline UncleBob

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2011, 12:51:33 AM »
Haven't we discussed this exact thing in considerable depth before?

Really?  Man, I should pay more attention around here...
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Offline Ceric

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2011, 12:59:39 AM »
On the Third Party game selling front.  I would like to see that on Percentage of Owner base.  That is the only real way to compare the consoles for who did third parties do better because it take the large numbers out of it.  So say I game had a 20% buy in on Wii but a 60% buy in on the 360 and for the sake of argument reason lets say that for each system they sold the same number of copies.  Which would be more succesful?  Those types of things be interesting.
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Offline Luigi Dude

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2011, 02:37:13 AM »
Falls down laughing.  That's the best joke on the net :) .

Only it's the truth.  Back on the Gamecube, Resident Evil Remake, Resident Evil Zero and Resident Evil 4 were all million seller.  The Gamecube version of Soul Caliber 2 was the best selling version of the game in North America, and is pretty close to the worldwide sales of the PS2 version as well.  Tales of Symphonia sold over 1 million copies worldwide and is the best selling Tales Of game to this day.  Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles was also a million seller worldwide, as was all of Sega's Sonic and Super Monkey Ball games for the Gamecube as well.

Last time I checked, these were all basically the only major third party titles on the Gamecube that even got anywhere close to the amount of hype PS2 and Xbox games got, and low and behold, all these games managed to be million sellers.  Most other Gamecube titles were either sh!tty ports that were over a year old, niche games that had very limited appeal or gimped multiplatform games that had content missing from the PS2/Xbox version as well as the worst graphics even though the Gamecube was more powerful then the PS2.

Now on to the Wii.  At launch, even though it was a crappy game, Red Steel managed to be a million seller thanks to all the hype it got.  Now the sequel that was good sold poorly, but that had more to do with the fact the first game tarnished the name Red Steel so that any sequel was guaranteed to sell much worse.  A few months later Capcom released Resident Evil 4 and only expected it to sell around 400,000 copies.  To this day the game has not only managed to be a million seller, it even sold better then the Gamecube version which came out 2 years earlier and was also a million seller.  Because of this Umbrella Chronicles was also a million seller a few months later.  Of course the next one Darkside Chronicles bombed but that's because Capcom went and make the shitty Dead Rising Wii port using the RE4 engine instead of you know, an actual Resident Evil game with it and then thought they could trick Wii owners into buying another lightgun spinoff.  No surprise why that game bombed.

Guiter Hero 3, even though the Wii version was gimped, still managed to sell millions of copies and when Rock Band eventually came over it was a million seller as well.  Yeah both series are dead now but they died on all 3 platforms at the same time because EVERYONE got sick of them.  EA's Boom Blox which had a lot of hype and critical acclaim managed to be a million seller, as did the Tiger Woods Golf games on the Wii since those were also critically acclaimed and hyped as well.  All of Sega's Sonic games have been million sellers but that was to be expected after his success on the Gamecube.  Monster Hunter 3 managed to be the first third party game on a Nintendo home console since the SNES to break the 1 million mark in Japan and is the best selling Monster Hunter game in the West.  Oh and last fall, Epic Mickey and GoldenEye 007, which were the two biggest third party Wii exclusive both managed to be million seller in the holiday season, even though Wii hardware had been dropping the entire year.

So once again, pretty much all of these games were the only major third party games the Wii got in terms of competing against anything similar to what the PS3/360 have in terms of hype and appeal, and once again they all sold well.  The third party titles that sell poorly on the Wii were games like Madworld, Dead Rising: Crap nobody wanted Edition, Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles, Dead Space Extraction, or Zack and Wiki.  And what do all these games have in common?  They were all either niche games that would have done poorly on the HD systems, or spinoffs that nobody cared for.
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Offline Morcant

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2011, 07:23:42 PM »
If the Stream is the second coming of the SNES there will be no one happier than me.
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Offline SixthAngel

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2011, 02:29:19 AM »
Nintendo seems to have realized that third parties changed this gen and they want to simply port their games to every system under the sun now.  Making the specs of the system in the ballpark of the others should guarrantee they go there and coming out first just becomes all advantage because companies don't care to tap into the little extra power the later consoles have.
Theoretically this should let Nintendo dominate by having what the others do plus their amazing first party support and unique controllers.

I think the transition to the next generation is going to be really different than previous generations and will be very staggered.

Offline Kytim89

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Re: Is the Super Wii the Second Coming of the SNES?
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2011, 08:10:36 PM »
After thinking over this topic, I have come to the realization of why I believe that the Super Wii is the second coming of the SNES. Allow me to explain with a brief history lesson.
 
Back in 1983 we had the video game crash that nearly crippled the industry. Along came a Japanese videogame company called Nintendo with the "NES". Eventually the NES took over the market and eventually had a successor called the "SNES." The SNES is considered by some to be one of the best consoles of all time. However, it faced stiff competiton from its rival, the SEGA Genesis. The SNES eventually won its console generation.
 
Fast forward to twenty years later and you have me talking about the second reign of the SNES through the Super Wii. Here is why I think this:
 
Sony has been hit hard by the development costs of their PS3 since 2006 and have actually went from the most succesful system maker to the least profitable in the span of about six or so years. Granted they are selling at a profit right now, but how bad are they still hurting? Honestly, with the recent PSN issue many Sony gamers (like myself) might jump permanently and go towards Microsoft and Nintendo's next system for added comfort. If people start abandoning Sony then is there is a possibility that they could go the way of SEGA?
 
Let's suppose for a moment that Sony were to leave the gaiming industry, I would equate it to this time period's version of the video crash back in the 1980s. Of course I prefer to something like this a paradigm shift in gaming.
 
Secondly, I view Microsoft as SEGA's successor, or a much more profitable version of SEGA. Debate me on this notion if you will, but Microsoft pisked up SEGA's mantle back in 2000 and has carried it since. Now, assume that Sony is out of the market and Microsfot and Nintendo are left to duke it out. The return of Nintendo's SNES as the Super Wii and Microsoft's next Xbox as the second coming of the SEGA Genesis seems like a possibility.
 
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