Author Topic: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!  (Read 268562 times)

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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #350 on: April 04, 2011, 09:11:48 PM »
Yeah, well good luck with that. They trolled this **** out of the FBI. The point that this is a civil case means Sony can just keep dragging it on and on, and sue sue sue and just get people to settle, so they never lose the case. So, in the mean time, they need to get a taste of their own medicine. Two wrongs don't make a right, but Sony has committed more than just a single wrong.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #351 on: April 05, 2011, 01:49:34 AM »
Anonymous, though, sounds downright malicious and their aggressive (and, as Ian commented, petty and childish) actions against Sony are not unlikely to have negative repercussions on legitimate users who just want to stay out of the way of this fight.

Its too late for that. The latest PSN EULA is basically a declaration of war by Sony on its users.
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Offline Stogi

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #352 on: April 05, 2011, 05:38:33 AM »
Wasn't Anonymous the one that helped Egyptians gain access to the internet and (still) allow Libyans to post information on public forum?

Sounds pretty cool to me.

But with any organization that basically can't be policed, they could get out of control.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #353 on: April 05, 2011, 08:13:41 AM »
I'm sure their organization is made up of all kinds. Maybe the majority are just inexperienced noobs, but that's not going to be the case with all of them. Some of them might be capable of some pretty devastating stuff.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #354 on: April 05, 2011, 11:33:33 AM »
I wish they would do like Fight Club and take on Credit Card Debt. and then one-up it clear all Mortgage Debt (but wait till right after I buy a humongous house).

Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #355 on: April 05, 2011, 01:45:39 PM »
If you haven't read up any recent stuff, Anonymous is whooping Sony's ass right now. Some of the stuff they are doing goes a little too far, or possibly could lead to someone going too far, but rest assured (or don't rest, but be assured) that this is not a bluff by any means. It goes well beyond the Denial of Service attacks from yesterday.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #356 on: April 05, 2011, 01:56:04 PM »
links? details? something?

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #357 on: April 05, 2011, 03:05:38 PM »
I wonder how Sony is going to respond to this. Another round of lawsuits?
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Offline UncleBob

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #358 on: April 05, 2011, 08:39:00 PM »
I see sony.com and playstation.com are up - but loading really slow.  Still down for maintenance?
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Offline BranDonk Kong

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #359 on: April 05, 2011, 10:10:32 PM »
Basically they've leaked a bunch of personal (very personal) information on Sony employeyes, lawyers, the judge in the GeoHot trial, and more. Check out ps3crunch.net for more info.

Oh, and also, Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc. is not the parent company of Sony Computer Entertainment of America. Sony's Other OS lawsuit shows this, and also shows that SCEI is in charge of what happens to PS3 firmware updates, basically negating their claims in the GeoHot case. Strange.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 10:13:06 PM by Brandogg »
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Offline SixthAngel

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #360 on: April 06, 2011, 01:24:27 AM »
The Sony of America, Sony of Japan legal loophole stuff is what I hate about lawyers and the court system in general.  Too much beauracy and technicalities getting in the way of common sense.

I can't stand the fact that companies claim to exist everywhere but nowhere.  When they sue me they choose the best place for them because they have a subsidiary there yet when I sue them they try to get the case seen in Turkmenistan where the law favors them because they have another department there.  Of course when tax time comes they are somehow in yet another country.  The common sense approach is not to let Sony sue from wherever they please.


I can't get angry at anonymous because everytime I hear about them, recently at least, they seem to be attacking some giant power trying to screw people.   They don't always use the best ways or the right ways but it feels good to think somebody is at least trying to fight back.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 03:16:12 AM by SixthAngel »

Offline broodwars

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #361 on: April 06, 2011, 01:22:12 PM »
I can't get angry at anonymous because everytime I hear about them, recently at least, they seem to be attacking some giant power trying to screw people.   They don't always use the best ways or the right ways but it feels good to think somebody is at least trying to fight back.

And in the process of "attacking some giant power trying to screw people", they screw innocent players over and cite them as collateral damage.  And apparently, according to that link I just posted, they're planning more drastic measures in the next few days.  These guys go beyond the pale: attacking individual Sony employees; their families; and judicial judges who are just doing their job, shutting down services that innocent players use on a daily basis, stealing information that could be damaging against innocent players.  We're way beyond the morality of hacking with these guys: these are online terrorists, and their actions should not be excused for any reason, especially considering their cited goal is "lulz" (real mature there).

These guys seriously need to be taken down.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 01:34:04 PM by broodwars »
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Offline MegaByte

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #362 on: April 06, 2011, 01:23:41 PM »
Given that some of their previous attacks have failed, are Sony's services that fragile, or are more people participating in this round of attacks (or both)?
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #363 on: April 06, 2011, 01:57:17 PM »
I can't get angry at anonymous because everytime I hear about them, recently at least, they seem to be attacking some giant power trying to screw people.   They don't always use the best ways or the right ways but it feels good to think somebody is at least trying to fight back.

And in the process of "attacking some giant power trying to screw people", they screw innocent players over and cite them as collateral damage.  And apparently, according to that link I just posted, they're planning more drastic measures in the next few days.  These guys go beyond the pale: attacking individual Sony employees; their families; and judicial judges who are just doing their job, shutting down services that innocent players use on a daily basis, stealing information that could be damaging against innocent players.  We're way beyond the morality of hacking with these guys: these are online terrorists, and their actions should not be excused for any reason, especially considering their cited goal is "lulz" (real mature there).

These guys seriously need to be taken down.

According to that link they haven't "attacked" anybody. They left a message on the Judge's answer machine of Chocolate Rain. I would hardly call that an attack. All they've really done so far is gather as much info about everyone involved as they can so they can figure out how to use it all later.

Quote from: The link Broodwars posted
ā€œThe consumers in this are as one might call, collateral damageā€ said Takai, after being confronted, ā€œwe are very cognisant of the fact that we are not making friends nor allies among the average consumer with our attack. This is unfortunate as a concern should always be, will the very people we seek to support not see what it is we are trying to achieve. In this case, many don’t. There has been a lot of hate spread throughout the internet and over forums that we are being reckless and simply punishing consumers more than Sony.ā€

To the consumers I would say …
Before you judge us, take the time to understand us.

While not being able to use the PSN is rather inconvenient, many feared a far greater threat – with the PS Store possibly compromised, was our credit card info safe? He replied: ā€œI think I can safely say this on behalf of everyone, we have no malicious intent towards Sony’s consumers.ā€ We mentioned that due to the IRC’s anonymity, a malicious hacker could go along with the hack, and use the chaos to their advantage, but Takai countered:  ā€œAttacks on systems are done as part of a coordinated effort. Although the operation is open to all, as is ddosing. More detailed operational components are more controlled.ā€

I say you gotta break a few eggs if you want to make an omelette. And people may be a little inconvenienced because they can't play their precious PSN for a day or 2, but I think they would be complaining a lot more down the line when they get denied basic rights, goods and services that they have already paid for just because somewhere in some EULA somewhere Sony made you agree to give those up just to use the stuff you own.

I could relate this to world events with much more serious "inconveniences", but i won't go there, instead I'll just quote The West Wing

"There are 2 things in this world that you never want to let people see how you make them... Laws and sausages"

and while this may not exactly be a law being made, it's sure setting up for something just as important. So if people have to go without PSN for a week or so, so that they can continue to enjoy the hardware that they bought in the future without anymore interruption, then so be it. Yeah, we may all hate that now, but 6 months from now you won't even remember or care.


edit: All I'm really trying to say is that I have no problem with Anon knocking some of these Executive Big Wigs off their high horses so that they remember that it is the customers that they are serving and that they wouldn't be where they were if it weren't for the very same customers that they are now trying to screw over and milk dry. If they have to drag a few other connected people through the mud to preserve a few of the things we already take for granted, then so be it. Casualties of war. I may not like it, but sometimes some things just have to be done if you want to see any results. We are talking about a handful of Davids going against a team of Mega Goliaths.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 02:04:07 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline broodwars

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #364 on: April 06, 2011, 02:27:47 PM »
According to that link they haven't "attacked" anybody. They left a message on the Judge's answer machine of Chocolate Rain. I would hardly call that an attack. All they've really done so far is gather as much info about everyone involved as they can so they can figure out how to use it all later.

There have been other stories posted on the 'net (namely Destructoid) that have stated that these guys are gathering personal (as it's been stated in this thread "very personal") information on Sony employees and their children (source).  You don't gather that information with no intent on using it maliciously, especially information on children, and I certainly don't trust THIS group not to abuse that information.  While their actions haven't been that destructive yet, they have been quoted on that link I posted earlier as only been carrying out "probing" actions and that they have much more drastic actions planned in the coming days.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 02:33:50 PM by broodwars »
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #365 on: April 06, 2011, 02:40:27 PM »
I wasn't able to log into PSN for awhile earlier today. I don't know if that was due to the hackers or not, because this problem has happened before from time to time. It was mildly annoying, but if it gets Sony to stop being jerks then it would be worth it. If Sony can be convinced that continuing their case against Geohot and the other hackers is more trouble than its worth (which it is, because the harm is already done), then maybe they'll back off and leave them alone.

Lets remember none of this would have ever happened if Sony hadn't removed Other OS. Do you think that looking back they would still think that removing Other OS was the right decision?
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Offline Stogi

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #366 on: April 06, 2011, 02:40:54 PM »
Like I said before, Two wrongs don't make a right, but it sure makes a point.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #367 on: April 06, 2011, 02:44:27 PM »
Like I said before, Two wrongs don't make a right, but it sure makes a point.

That hackers are psychotic anarchists determined to have the world burn if they can't get their way (which is the image that Anonymous portrays)?  Sure, it certainly makes that point, which frankly makes Sony's legal cases look far more righteous than they would have otherwise.  They're not helping anything with their actions except make the (mostly benevolent) hacking community look worse.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #368 on: April 06, 2011, 02:47:17 PM »

According to that link they haven't "attacked" anybody. They left a message on the Judge's answer machine of Chocolate Rain. I would hardly call that an attack. All they've really done so far is gather as much info about everyone involved as they can so they can figure out how to use it all later.

There have been other stories posted on the 'net (namely Destructoid) that have stated that these guys are gathering personal (as it's been stated in this thread "very personal") information on Sony employees and their children.  You don't gather that information with no intent on using it maliciously.

supposedly all public knowledge.... as in posted on the internet. I'm sure they've just hacked Facebook accounts and things of that sort... depending on how old these kids are.

All though they said they know their political contributions, which would mean they have their tax returns and all that stuff too. But like the article said,
Quote
ā€œThe most important thing in any war is information. Knowing your opponent goes a long way. Today was about probingā€. When asked about what the data included, Takai replied: ā€œInformation about a great many things. Political campaign contributions, floral bouquets, the location of certain key servers in their network.ā€ All this has been compiled to create a intricate list of information regarding the employees. ā€œAs employees of Sony, they are considered legitimate targets of the operationā€ Takai explained, but conceded the ā€˜Dox’ were ā€œprimarily limited to those in positions of power and in very few cases their underlingsā€

now this article said underlings, but I wouldn't put it past them to gather the easy to obtain public info on their children too considering how much people willing put out there without even thinking about it.

As far a using it maliciously.... well, they haven't done anything yet, so it would be unfair to judge them based on the fact that they are getting to know as much about their opponents as possible before engaging them in cyber combat. I fully expect them to use gather info to point out hypocrisies, double standards and flat out lies as often as possible to continually discredit Sony and their executives not only professionally but in their personal lives too. If you swat the bees nest, you have to be prepared to get stung. I'm not gonna say I will likely be on board with everything they are capable of doing, but I can look the other way just as so many of us have for so many other things in our lives that will affect us much more than this.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 02:49:50 PM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline Stogi

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #369 on: April 06, 2011, 03:07:51 PM »
Like I said before, Two wrongs don't make a right, but it sure makes a point.

That hackers are psychotic anarchists determined to have the world burn if they can't get their way (which is the image that Anonymous portrays)?  Sure, it certainly makes that point, which frankly makes Sony's legal cases look far more righteous than they would have otherwise.  They're not helping anything with their actions except make the (mostly benevolent) hacking community look worse.

No. Mostly that if Hackers feel threatened, they will do something about it. If you put pressure on them, they will put pressure on you. If they see something deemed as unfair, then they will do something about it.

I'm not taking sides when it comes to Anon, but I still find it incredibly interesting.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #370 on: April 06, 2011, 04:23:24 PM »
Like I said before, Two wrongs don't make a right, but it sure makes a point.

And its also always nice when the bad guys get their comeuppance. This is probably the only way it could happen anyway, because Sony has the legal system in their pockets so there's no way they can be challenged in that arena.
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Offline Ian Sane

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #371 on: April 06, 2011, 05:11:56 PM »
Quote
I say you gotta break a few eggs if you want to make an omelette.

It's easy to say that until you're one of eggs and had nothing to do with the situation.  I would never want to be collateral damage just because I knew someone or was a citizen of this country but was otherwise uninvolved.  So I can't support that being applied to anyone else.
 
People deserve to be judged as individuals.  Prejudices like racism or sexism judge people as groups instead of individuals and those are rightly frowned upon.  How is this any different?  We're grouping people based on what company they work for or whose family they belong to.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #372 on: April 06, 2011, 05:29:19 PM »
They are going after Sony, and to do that they need to target the people in charge at Sony. They may have gathered info on people related to the people in question, but there is no saying what they may do with that info. It could just be used as leverage or not at all. We have no idea yet as we don't know the specifics of what they have or what they plan to do with it.

These people weren't singled out because of what company they work for, they were singles out for what company they RUN. These are the people in charge, the people that make the decisions and the people that sign the checks. They aren't going after the clueless factory worker or the guy who designs the products. They are also going after the Lawyers that represent these people and the Judge that is allowing this to continue the way it is. So it's not like anyone they have targeted has had absolutely nothing to do with this situation.

And I know you are gonna bring up the kids, but the kids aren't being targeted here, they are just caught in the net. If you want to know a man and everything he is about, you are gonna need to know what his motivations in life are who the people closest to him are. All of that is caught in the net when gathering information on your target. There is no guarantee that any of that netted info will ever be collaterally damaged.

Lets wait until Anon makes their moves before we pre-judge them on their intent and execution.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #373 on: April 06, 2011, 06:46:36 PM »
Sony wants to destroy Geohot's life by fining him millions of Euros and permanently lowering his standard of living by forcing him to pay over the course of a lifetime these fines which he cannot possibly ever afford to pay off. So if his life is getting ruined, why should I shed a tear if the people responsible have their lives inconvenienced in retaliation? Its not like Anon is going to be capable of doing anything that comes even remotely close to ruining their lives the way they are trying to ruin the life of Geohot. Can Anon force these big shot Sony tycoons to pay a billion dollar find and be destitute for the rest of their lives? I don't think so. All they can do is harass them on an answering machine? Big deal.

Let's try to put things in perspective here. On one hand you have a man facing millions of dollars in fines which will ruin his life forever, and on the other hand you have some wealthy barons at Sony getting prank calls and having their mansions toilet-papered and their limousines egged by hooligans. Which of these is the greater tragedy?
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 06:53:15 PM by Chozo Ghost »
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Offline Stogi

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Re: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!
« Reply #374 on: April 06, 2011, 07:21:46 PM »
I think Anon is capable of more than that.

They could shut down PSN, stop online sales, and frustrate customers who have no idea what's going on.
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