Topic: PSN = Privacy? Security? Never!

[NWR_insanolord]

If he did that, and for those reasons, then yeah, that is pretty awesome.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Court Order filed by Sony
http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/california/candce/3:2011cv00167/235965/103/0.pdf

In light of Hotz’s failure to comply with his discovery obligations and the still outstanding third party jurisdictional discovery, SCEA proposed a two-week extension of all briefing and hearing deadlines relating to Hotz’s Motion to Dismiss. Bricker Decl., ¶5, Exh. D. Hotz refused, stating that SCEA would have its discovery by the time of the hearing. Id. He completely ignored the fact that SCEA’s opposition deadline was approaching. Hotz also rejected outright SCEA’s second attempt to arrange for an inspection of his PS3 Systems and tried to evade his court-ordered deposition, stating that it was unnecessary. Id.

Despite Judge Spero’s orders, Hotz continues to frustrate all attempts to complete jurisdictional discovery. In yet another attempt to avoid his deposition and a limited inspection of his impounded hard drives, on March 17, 2011, Hotz filed a motion for protective order on issues already decided by Judge Spero. (Docket No. 100.) On the same day, [/b]TIG discovered that prior to delivery, Hotz had removed integral components from his impounded hard drives, rendering them completely non-functional.[/b] Bricker Decl., ¶21, Exh. S. When SCEA echoed TIG’s request that the components of the hard drives be delivered immediately, Hotz’s counsel responded that Hotz was in South America.Id

Letters to and From GeoHotz lawyers regarding the incident in question
http://www.groklaw.net/pdf2/SonyvHotz-104-19.pdf

Yasha,

Your client has not provided a “hard drive” but rather parts of the hard drive.   A “hard drive” must contain all
the parts that make it a working device which include the enclosure, platters, heads and attached controller
card.   This controller card is  installed at the factory and not normally removed or handled by an end user.   

Regards,
Mike
Michael Grennier, CFCE, EnCE
TheIntelligenceGroup

Merhnaz,
Your concerns are completely unfounded.  To the contrary, Mr. Hotz has gone above and beyond what he has been required to do.
 
Mr. Hotz was ordered to provide his hard drives and storage devices on which any circumvention devices were stored-- nothing more. 
 
As your co-counsel is aware, Mr. Hotz is currently out of the country, so your unilateral demand to have him provide the controllers by noon tomorrow is not only unreasonable, but simply not possible.  No explanation is necessary as Mr. Hotz fully complied with the terms of the Court's order.
 
Best regards,
Yasha

Yasha Heidari
Heidari Power Law Group LLC

I find it pretty damn funny, even though it could be classified as tampering with evidence... even though the data itself was supposedly not harmed.

[BranDonk Kong]

Nothing more to see here, folks. Also, looks like the PSN account stuff might be completely bogus too.

However - I did just get an e-mail from PlayStation telling me about the new TOS starting April 1st, and now it will come from "SNEA" which means Sony Networks Entertainment of America. I have no idea if it's legit or not (since it says it was already updated April 1st, 2011), but it seems that this is done to get everyone agree to be sued in California, since that's where this "SNEA" is located. I would call it a scam or April Fool's joke, but it takes you to qriocity's webpage, which is a music service run by Sony.

[broodwars]

If he did that, and for those reasons, then yeah, that is pretty awesome.

Yes, committing obstruction of justice and potentially tampering with evidence is awesome.  [/sarcasm]

At least the matter appears to be settled now and the story can go back into hibernation for a while until the case actually begins in court.

[Morari]

Yeah, it is awesome. If only the legal system were worth putting any amount of trust in...

[broodwars]

Yeah, it is awesome. If only the legal system were worth putting any amount of trust in...

Well, it is the worst system out there...except for all the other ones.  I'll take it over any other Justice System in the world any day of the week.

[Chozo Ghost]

What's awesome about it is that the guy they are targeting is a hacker so he has the knowledge to creatively disrupt their investigation at every turn without actually violating the court's orders in doing so. It reminds me of some fairy tale about a Leprechaun who gets captured and forced to reveal the location of his gold and his captor ties a ribbon or something to the tree where the gold is buried and has the Leprechaun swear not to tamper with the ribbon while he goes to get his pick and shovel to dig it up. The guy comes back later and true to his word the Leprechaun didn't tamper with the ribbon, but now every single tree in the forest has an identical ribbon attached to it which makes finding the pot of gold impossible.

This is kinda like that fairy tale.

[Myxtika1 Azn]

Is it from a fairy tale as well? I remember watching that on an episode of DuckTales.

[broodwars]

What's awesome about it is that the guy they are targeting is a hacker so he has the knowledge to creatively disrupt their investigation at every turn without actually violating the court's orders in doing so. It reminds me of some fairy tale about a Leprechaun who gets captured and forced to reveal the location of his gold and his captor ties a ribbon or something to the tree where the gold is buried and has the Leprechaun swear not to tamper with the ribbon while he goes to get his pick and shovel to dig it up. The guy comes back later and true to his word the Leprechaun didn't tamper with the ribbon, but now every single tree in the forest has an identical ribbon attached to it which makes finding the pot of gold impossible.

This is kinda like that fairy tale.

In the process of being "cute", though, Hotz is doing damage to his case by being uncooperative.  Every stunt he pulls makes him look bad.  And although it is technically true that you can't declare someone guilty just because they're a jerk, it's also true that if you're on the fence about the issue already not liking the guy can't help him.  He needs to cut out the crap and go through these proceedings the right way.  Legal precedent is, unfortunately, on his side, so the burden is on Sony to win this case.  But every time he pulls a stunt like this, he makes their job easier.

[Stogi]

Yeah you're not bias at all *rolls eyes*

He's just getting back at Sony along the way. Frustrating them, making them waste time and thus money.

No matter how much of a jerk he'll seem, this court case will set precedent, so any judge foolish enough to lean one way or another based on personality is just sad and unfit for the case, or any case.

[broodwars]

Yeah you're not bias at all *rolls eyes*

He's just getting back at Sony along the way. Frustrating them, making them waste time and thus money.

I'm not a journalist, so it's not my role to be "unbiased" and I believe I've made my position on this matter clear from the get-go: I don't like Hotz, and I don't like how he released his hack.  But I believe the little prick deserves his day in court to defend his hack as best he can, and he's deliberately mocking the legal system.  So yeah, I have a problem with him.  If he wants to lose his case for Sony, he can go right ahead and continue being an uncooperative jerk.

[BlackNMild2k1]

I say mock away. if you can find little loops holes in wording to exploit, then exploit them. It's only a matter of time before legal speak becomes even more complex and confusing that it already is because they have to cover everything in detail to avoid loop holes in wording and execution. So have fun with it while you can.

They asked for the HDD, they got the HDD minus the non-standard board that comes with the particular HDD's he was using. Next time they will word it differently and they will get "The HDD and all part necessary to make it work properly without modification" but translated into some over explained "legalese" using unfamiliar words with even more complex definitions meant to intimidate the common person from even trying to understand what the hell they are talking about. So have fun with it, you only get to have this moment maybe once, so make it memorable. This is your 15 minutes GeoHotz, better make something of it.

[Stogi]

He's not mocking the legal system. He's being uncooperative. Big difference. And can anyone blame him?

It's like someone asking to search your house and you giving them the key but locking all the doors within your house.

[NWR_insanolord]

Legal precedent is, unfortunately, on his side, so the burden is on Sony to win this case.

In what way is it unfortunate that the burden of proof is on the party filing the claim?


Also, do we know if this is going to be a jury trial or just a judge? If there's a jury, this may hurt him, but only if the judge rules that pointing out how he's doing the bare minimum he's required to do is relevant and admissable and allows it to be brought up in court. If it's a judge, there's a good chance he/she will be professional enough to not be swayed by it and just judge the case on its merits.

[Stogi]

I could be wrong, but I don't think they use juries for these kinds of trials aka legal precedent trails.

[BlackNMild2k1]

Out with the old and in with the NEW user agreements

PlayStation(R)Network

===================================

An important message to you from the
PlayStation(R)Network team at Sony Computer
Entertainment America LLC.

On April 1, 2011, Sony Computer
Entertainment America LLC ("SCEA")
will transfer its online services
operations, including your wallet
and the funds in it, to Sony Network
Entertainment America Inc. ("SNEA").
The first time you sign in to your
Sony Online Services account on or
after April 1, you will be asked to
enter into a new Terms of Service and
User Agreement with SNEA. If you do
not wish to enter into a contract with
SNEA, you may decline the terms of
service and we will close your account(s)
and return your funds. You can preview
the new Terms of Service and User
Agreement with SNEA at:
redacted

PlayStation(R)Network will continue to
provide you with the highest standard
of interactive entertainment. Your
access to the best games, movies, TV
shows, music and friends will remain
intact. Thank you very much for being
part of the PlayStation(R)Network online
community! We look forward to continuing
to bring you the best in innovative
online entertainment!

Your PlayStation(R)Network password and
Sign-on ID (redacted) is required
to sign in to your Sony Online Services
account. Please go to >>
(redacted)
to ensure your account information
is accurate and updated.

The PlayStation(R)Network Team

===================================

LEGAL
"PlayStation" and the "PS" Family logo are
registered trademarks and "PS3" and
"PlayStation Network" are trademarks of
Sony Computer Entertainment Inc.
(C) 2011 Sony Computer Entertainment America LLC.

Sony Computer Entertainment America LLC
919 E. Hillsdale Blvd., Foster City, CA 94404

Changes to Term of Service:
http://www.qriocity.com/psnlegal/us/tos.html

[Chozo Ghost]

Sony changes the PS3 end user agreement as often as Lindsay Lohan changes boyfriends.

[Stogi]

*crickets*

Very interesting interview with Kakarot, one of the premiere PS3 hackers. His attitude is quite what I expected.

http://www.dashhacks.com/articles/kakaroto-interviewed-and-shares-his-thoughts

[Ian Sane]

I like this part:
 

PlayStation(R)Network will continue to
provide you with the highest standard
of interactive entertainment. Your
access to the best games, movies, TV
shows, music and friends will remain
intact.

"Highest standard, eh?"  "Best games, huh?"  Do you have Super Mario Galaxy?  No?  Well then I guess you don't have the best games so you broke your half of the agreement and now I'm free to break mine!  I am free to pirate because Sony lied about having the best games!

[SixthAngel]

"Highest standard, eh?"  "Best games, huh?"  Do you have Super Mario Galaxy?  No?  Well then I guess you don't have the best games so you broke your half of the agreement and now I'm free to break mine!  I am free to pirate because Sony lied about having the best games!

I like the cut of your jib.

[MegaByte]

Does "best" apply to just "games" or everything in that list? Best friends?

[NWR_insanolord]

The way I read it, it's everything. And as far as I know, The Wire isn't available on PSN, which adds another broken promise.

[BranDonk Kong]

Minor update - Hotz' lawyers bitch slapping SCEA. Apparently this Sony PlayStation 3 is wholly owned, developed, produced, manufactured, and marketed by...Sony Japan and Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc, but *not* SCEA. Take a look at your PS3 (assuming you own one), and you'll find this to be true. So, in hacking his PS3, he has done basically nothing to SCEA, who is suing him, because SCEA doesn't have anything to do with the PS3 hardware. Just saying.

[BlackNMild2k1]

LOL

[broodwars]

Minor update - Hotz' lawyers bitch slapping SCEA. Apparently this Sony PlayStation 3 is wholly owned, developed, produced, manufactured, and marketed by...Sony Japan and Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc, but *not* SCEA. Take a look at your PS3 (assuming you own one), and you'll find this to be true. So, in hacking his PS3, he has done basically nothing to SCEA, who is suing him, because SCEA doesn't have anything to do with the PS3 hardware. Just saying.

Is this really unusual, though?  SCEA is owned by Sony Computer Entertainment, Inc. and is its American subsidiary for handling NA products.