Author Topic: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again  (Read 19704 times)

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Offline Deguello

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #75 on: October 17, 2009, 07:24:49 PM »
Gotta love how this all breaks down into personal definitions of whatever.  Nobody's wrong!

Nintendo certainly does risk a lot more than Sony, and it's basically proven by the way both were presented going into this generation.  Starting around 2004 Nintendo was "crazy" and "working on their next Virtual Boy" and Sony was doing the things that would assure them victory with the PSP and PS3.

Just because we have 3 years of hindsight under our belts doesn't mean what Nintendo did was a sure bet and what Sony did was foolhardy (well, maybe the $600 thing was.) in 2006. And furthermore, just being rash and stupid doesn't equivocate to taking risks.  My economics professor put it best when he told us that risk is trying to cross a rickety bridge and being stupid was jumping off a cliff and hoping a bridge would form under you.  Making Wii Fit amidst all the criticism of abandoning hardcores and destroying videogames was risky.  Making a updated handheld that's almost 50% more expensive while slashing features and robbing your customers of their ownership rights is stupid (and also not risky either.  How much has been said of the future of "digital distribution?"  Sony's just responding to the fan's wants.)

Nintendo risked much more in making the DS and Wii than Sony did with the PSP and PS3.  Sony stuck with familiar territory.  It was Nintendo who zagged while others zigged.  New IPs aren't a good measure of "taking risks" either.  Mainly because Sony only does that when their current IPs barely make a ripple.  Of the ones that DO stick in the marketplace, Sony drives them into the ground with vicious tenacity.  Like Ratchet and Clank, Socom, Crash Bandicoot (which they sold off once it was no longer useful.  Go artistic company).  And numerous times, these "new IPs" are just a version of an already existing game, like the Getaway is to GTA.

Uh well... in conclusion, don't confuse being risky with being stupid, and don't be results-oriented and use hindsight to judge either.

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Offline Invincible Donkey Kong

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #76 on: October 17, 2009, 07:35:27 PM »
Would you rather have a "new IP" with tired, cliche gameplay, or fresh, new gameplay with an old IP attached?  If you answer the former, I almost pity your worthless ass.  :reggie:

In fact, Team ICO is the only team that Sony has that is worth their salt.  Though their games are mediocre, at least they try to do something different.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #77 on: October 17, 2009, 08:14:35 PM »

Nintendo risked much more in making the DS and Wii than Sony did with the PSP and PS3.  Sony stuck with familiar territory.  It was Nintendo who zigged with the DS and zagged with the Wii while others stayed the course. 


fixed

Offline D_Average

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #78 on: October 17, 2009, 10:13:41 PM »
In his defense, they could be robotic ducks, but we may never really know.  But yes, that and tanks are fun games on WiiPlay, worth picking up for a few bucks if you find a copy.
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Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #79 on: October 18, 2009, 07:37:34 PM »
A game like Duck Hunt is too controversial nowadays because hunting isn't a mainstream sport anymore like it was in the 80s, and nowadays you'd piss off a lot of yuppies and animal rights activists. That's why Nintendo gave a nod to it in Wii Play with the shooting gallery game, but there are no live animals you shoot at this time.

You do realize that there are DUCKS* in WiiPlay, hence my comment about using the dog to retrieve the ducks when you shoot them.

*a duck is a live animal ;)

There may be ducks, but you don't shoot at them... or if you do they don't die. That's kinda my point... Nintendo will not release a game where you shoot and kill animals. 25 years ago people didn't care or were okay with it, but most people nowadays have never went hunting or even touched a shotgun in their entire life. I know its weird, but even though most people are okay with eating meat many of them are not okay with killing animals for food or sport. They'll eat steak and hamburgers, but they are not willing to do what it takes to put that stuff on the table.

Nintendo wants to make stuff that appeals to all ages, and groups, and shooting ducks would go against that and probably get them in hot water. Its not hard to see where there hasn't been a proper duck hunt sequel, and why there probably never will be one.
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Offline broodwars

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #80 on: October 18, 2009, 07:43:07 PM »
A game like Duck Hunt is too controversial nowadays because hunting isn't a mainstream sport anymore like it was in the 80s, and nowadays you'd piss off a lot of yuppies and animal rights activists. That's why Nintendo gave a nod to it in Wii Play with the shooting gallery game, but there are no live animals you shoot at this time.

You do realize that there are DUCKS* in WiiPlay, hence my comment about using the dog to retrieve the ducks when you shoot them.

*a duck is a live animal ;)

There may be ducks, but you don't shoot at them... or if you do they don't die. That's kinda my point... Nintendo will not release a game where you shoot and kill animals. 25 years ago people didn't care or were okay with it, but most people nowadays have never went hunting or even touched a shotgun in their entire life. I know its weird, but even though most people are okay with eating meat many of them are not okay with killing animals for food or sport. They'll eat steak and hamburgers, but they are not willing to do what it takes to put that stuff on the table.

Nintendo wants to make stuff that appeals to all ages, and groups, and shooting ducks would go against that and probably get them in hot water. Its not hard to see where there hasn't been a proper duck hunt sequel, and why there probably never will be one.

For the record, I don't have any problem with hunting so long as it's for the purpose of providing food.  That's the way of nature.  It's hunting for sheer sport, killing animals just for the purpose of killing that bothers me.  The way Duck Hunt presents it as a game is why I don't think we'll ever see a true Duck Hunt sequel.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #81 on: October 18, 2009, 07:59:02 PM »
A game like Duck Hunt is too controversial nowadays because hunting isn't a mainstream sport anymore like it was in the 80s, and nowadays you'd piss off a lot of yuppies and animal rights activists. That's why Nintendo gave a nod to it in Wii Play with the shooting gallery game, but there are no live animals you shoot at this time.

You do realize that there are DUCKS* in WiiPlay, hence my comment about using the dog to retrieve the ducks when you shoot them.

*a duck is a live animal ;)

There may be ducks, but you don't shoot at them... or if you do they don't die. That's kinda my point... Nintendo will not release a game where you shoot and kill animals. 25 years ago people didn't care or were okay with it, but most people nowadays have never went hunting or even touched a shotgun in their entire life. I know its weird, but even though most people are okay with eating meat many of them are not okay with killing animals for food or sport. They'll eat steak and hamburgers, but they are not willing to do what it takes to put that stuff on the table.

Nintendo wants to make stuff that appeals to all ages, and groups, and shooting ducks would go against that and probably get them in hot water. Its not hard to see where there hasn't been a proper duck hunt sequel, and why there probably never will be one.




All I can say is before you decide to reply again, PUT DOWN THE KEYBOARD, and use your mouse to watch this youtube video of someone playing WiiPlay Shooting Gallery
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQeHjQziSzA

I don't want to spoil the surprise, but....
In every section there are ducks, and he shoots them, and then die, and they fall out of the sky.

Offline Stogi

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #82 on: October 18, 2009, 09:03:53 PM »
This is the dumbest fucking conversation in the entire forum.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #83 on: October 18, 2009, 09:16:16 PM »
Yeah this thread is the pits.  I hate it when people just don't do basic research and the thread gets derailed having to deal with phantom issues.  they'll say stupid stuff like "Nintendo oughta remake Rad Racer" which just sends the facepalms a-flying.
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Offline Peachylala

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #84 on: October 18, 2009, 09:25:04 PM »
Yeah this thread is the pits.  I hate it when people just don't do basic research and the thread gets derailed having to deal with phantom issues.  they'll say stupid stuff like "Nintendo oughta remake Rad Racer" which just sends the facepalms a-flying.
This is pretty typical these days though.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #85 on: October 18, 2009, 09:31:07 PM »
This is the dumbest fucking conversation in the entire forum.

I'm ashamed to have even stumbled into it.
But someone has to stop the misinformation.

Offline oohhboy

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #86 on: October 19, 2009, 09:01:36 AM »
This is like watching Fox News.

Ohh burn!

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Offline EasyCure

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #87 on: October 19, 2009, 09:48:14 AM »
This is the dumbest fucking conversation in the entire forum.

Oh, i dunno about that :P

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Offline KDR_11k

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #88 on: October 19, 2009, 10:59:43 AM »
Would you rather have a "new IP" with tired, cliche gameplay, or fresh, new gameplay with an old IP attached?  If you answer the former, I almost pity your worthless ass.  :reggie:

You sound like you're actually working with Nintendo. Their games got stale because they tried to innovate on gameplay while failing to innovate on content. I mean, everybody says Twilight Princess was OOT 2 yet the gameplay has many differences. What didn't differ much was the actual content, what you did with that gameplay. People don't want water packs stuck to their character or wolf transformations, those are just gimmicks because they add nonsense without changing the game's fundamentals. If you want to innovate on gameplay make sure the difference is huge but either way make sure the user actually gets a new experience out of it, not an old one with some bells and whistles added.

Offline Ian Sane

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #89 on: October 19, 2009, 07:58:23 PM »
Quote
Would you rather have a "new IP" with tired, cliche gameplay, or fresh, new gameplay with an old IP attached?

I would pick fresh new gameplay.  Too bad that isn't really an option these days.  It's more like new IP with tired, cliche gameplay or stale IP with tired, cliche gameplay.

And I even like these games.  I like Twilight Princess and Super Mario Galaxy.  And Nintendo does try some new concepts in these games (but then most developers add some new features to their sequels).  But the setting and the characters are stale.

Most games are derivative to an extent.  Only a small handful of truly original games come out each generation.  Most of the time it's a familiar genre with a hook.  Look at a game like Infamous and you might think "big deal, it's just another sandbox game."  Well yeah but it's a sandbox game where you're a superhero.  It has a little twist to shake things up and you get to see a new setting and meet new characters.  A developer isn't going to reinvent the wheel each time but when they're going to do something fairly routine you hope they can spice it up a bit.

But Nintendo doesn't really do that by clinging to their franchises so much.  There is no freshness in the setting or the characters.  So a big part of the newness is automatically thrown out the window.  So you're left with Zelda... where you can turn into a wolf and Mario... in space.  It becomes much harder to provide something fresh and exciting to the player when the genre, setting and characters are all generic.  You might say I'm selling Twilight Princess short when I'm saying it's just Zelda with a wolf.  But for someone that has played the other Zelda game that IS all there is to it aside from a few unique items.

Back on the N64 you look at a game like Banjo-Kazooie.  From a gameplay perspective it's really Nintendo doing Super Mario 64 again with a few new ideas and with Rare developing it.  But it didn't feel like just more Super Mario 64 because Rare introduced a new IP.  All the characters were new (well some of them debuted in Diddy Kong Racing but close enough) and the world was new.  That combined with some of the minor gameplay twists made for a refreshing experience.  Now of course Rare went nuts with platformers on the N64 and kind of burned that thing out but the first time they did it it worked very well.

Nintendo has this attitude that story and presentation don't matter but that ain't really true.  Gameplay is more important but story is just part of good game design.  Having interesting characters and an interesting setting helps provide an escape for the player.

When Sony introduces a new IP they might be using a genre that has already been done but they're still creating a new world for the player to explore.  That is significant.  It's been a long time since Nintendo gave us a new world to explore.  And when both companies are mostly sticking to genre games for their core gaming offerings new IP gets the edge.

Now if Nintendo wants to pop out some new gameplay that isn't a glorified mini-game comp or the same old thing with irresponsive controls then that changes everything.  But until that happens I'll give Sony the win in a "best of the worst" decision.

Offline Arbok

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #90 on: October 23, 2009, 12:19:04 PM »
There may be ducks, but you don't shoot at them... or if you do they don't die. That's kinda my point... Nintendo will not release a game where you shoot and kill animals.

There are ducks, and you do shoot at them... although I agree with Chozo here. They have the cartoon "dizzy stars" around them which would elevate the feeling that they are being killed for anyone who might be concerned. So Nintendo took the middle ground with... "concussion duck shooting" I suppose.
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Offline NinGurl69 *huggles

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #91 on: October 23, 2009, 12:28:48 PM »
I shoot and kill all kinds of animals in Metroid Prime.

I shoot and kill various winged animals in Zelda.

I throw chickens over cliffs and piglets into watery graves in Zelda.
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Offline Deguello

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #92 on: October 28, 2009, 01:35:02 AM »
Quote
When Sony introduces a new IP they might be using a genre that has already been done but they're still creating a new world for the player to explore.  That is significant.  It's been a long time since Nintendo gave us a new world to explore.  And when both companies are mostly sticking to genre games for their core gaming offerings new IP gets the edge.

What do you mean by "genre" games?  Can anything ever NOT be a "genre" game?  I can think of a few, but you won't like them.  (Wii Fit, Brain Age)
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Offline ThePerm

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #93 on: October 28, 2009, 03:53:15 AM »
i think what Ian is getting at, is Nintendo could make some great games if they just changed the setting and used the same gameplay. Like make a game with zelda gameplay, and a castlevania like theme.
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Offline Peachylala

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #94 on: October 28, 2009, 01:29:08 PM »
I shoot and kill all kinds of animals in Metroid Prime.

I shoot and kill various winged animals in Zelda.

I throw chickens over cliffs and piglets into watery graves in Zelda.
You animal killer you. >:(
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Offline mac<censored>

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #95 on: October 29, 2009, 02:19:29 AM »
You animal killer you. >:(

Well what about that blacknmild guy?!  He immerses chickens in boiling oil (my god the pain must be unbearable), and then devours their ravaged corpses -- and then he dances and sings about it, as if to desecrate even their memory!

I think I'm going to be ill.

Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #96 on: October 29, 2009, 03:03:36 AM »


♪ "Chicken, some chicken
you know you want, you know you want
some chicken, some chicken,
some fried, crispy, greasy, yummy"
[repeat] ♪
« Last Edit: October 29, 2009, 03:06:09 AM by BlackNMild2k1 »

Offline EasyCure

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #97 on: October 29, 2009, 09:29:18 AM »


♪ "Chicken, some chicken
you know you want, you know you want
some chicken, some chicken,
some fried, crispy, greasy, yummy"
[repeat] ♪

It'd be pretty epic if he danced in time with the one in your avatar.
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Offline BlackNMild2k1

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #98 on: October 29, 2009, 01:41:40 PM »
if i used the avatar sized one he would've, but they are two different pics.

Offline Chozo Ghost

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Re: Sony bad-mouths Nintendo yet again
« Reply #99 on: October 29, 2009, 02:32:15 PM »
Is that Jake Sisko from Star Trek DS9? He's moving around so fast its hard to tell.
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