Topic: Miyamoto: E3 No Longer the Best Place to Show Core Games

[Ceric]

I think someone should take notes on all the whining going on now and come back to them a year from now. Some may look pretty silly.

Hell, do you remember when the Wii was first revealed?  All the "NINTENDO IS SCREWED" posts?  Pretty embarrassing stuff!

Wasn't there a thread a couple months back that went through a lot of those?

[Djunknown]

I think someone should take notes on all the hysterics going on now and come back to them a year from now. Some may look pretty silly.

Fixed

Granted, I'm not immune, I've done my share overreactions. But nothing, nothing compares to comments made when the Wiimote was unveiled at TGS 2005. But for some reason, I can't find it...

Still though, Reggie got our hopes up, and for the most part, missed the mark. This statement sounds like a late patch up, so we don't get uber-excited next e3, assuming there is one. Never take Reggie for his word ever again. Or anyone in the gaming industry for that matter. They are handsomely paid to lie 

I wanna know where the anger at Capcom was for basically RickRolling E3 by talking about a movie for 20 minutes and then leaving.

If we're judging on press conferences alone, I think Capcom gets the big thumbs down. Aside from being a Lost Planet: The Movie love-fest (at least a love-fest among the people on stage.), when live bloggers are contemplating streaming porn in a to spice up the monotony, there is a problem.

There you go.

[Ian Sane]

If Nintendo really thinks this then they shouldn't have had Reggie saying that core gamers would like E3.  E3 has traditionally been the big videogame show that core gamers pay attention to.  So when you tell us we'll like E3 then we'll get hyped about it.  So, yeah, showing off ONE core game we already knew about was going to be a disappointment.  Reggie mislead us and Nintendo is pretty f*cking clueless to not see that coming.  Reminds me of the Wind Waker backlash.  Nintendo showed really cool realistic Zelda at one show and then showed a cartoon at E3 and wondered why there was backlash.  Gee, I wonder.  Nintendo may have non-gamers conned into buying junk but they're still just as stunned as ever.

Next time don't say anything.

[Kairon]

Next time don't say anything.

Ahh... the stalwart Nintendo PR standby. It'll never go out of style.

Nintendo PR execs, repeat after me: The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. There are known knowns and there are known unknowns, but there are also unknown unknowns. And never buy a computer game for $20.

[Chozo Ghost]

Well, it could have been much better than it was, but can you honestly say Pikmin 3 and Zelda confirmation isn't big news? And even though it isn't really a game, I am very excited about that Wii Motion Plus peripheral. I think gamers are really underestimating its potential... because with that, we can finally have realistic swordfighting games and stuff, and that's definitely big news for core gamers.

So I'll admit they were pretty light on games, but come... Pikmin 3 and Zelda and Wii Motion Plus (and Miyamoto confirming Nintendo is looking into storage solutions) is all stuff which addresses gaps in the Wii that fans have been bitching about for quite some time. I think Reggie was right to think that core fans would be pleased with all this, but apparently Nintendo fans just expect too much. I think many fans were expecting E3 2006 all over again... well, sorry folks but E3 will never be that big again, and that's not Nintendo's fault. But what they did unveil was still kickass news, imho.

[redgiemental]

They have been vaguely saying they will fix the storage problem for quite a while now. I just don't see it as news until they give us an announcement of when they're actually releasing something and what it is.

I think everyone knew that somewhere within Nintendo a Zelda game was being worked on. So wheres the news? ITs not news! If it was coming out soon and they'd told us something about it then it would be news but its not. They are always working on a Zelda game.

In fairness Pikmin is news. It was possible we wouldn't get a third game in this series and I'm very happy that I will get one. I don't think we will see for over a year though. So what would i get excited about this year?

[Stogi]

I'll take this one Kairon.

Perhaps games that aren't published by Nintendo?

[NWR_Lindy]

Really, all Nintendo told us was stuff that they could have said at any point since the release of GameCube, because there have surely been Zelda, Mario, and Pikmin games in some stage of development at all times during that period.  Like Redgiemental said, it's non-news.

Make no mistake though, E3 was not a miscalculation on Nintendo's part.  They knew exactly what they were doing.  You don't omit a litany of excellent Wii games from your E3 presentation, show no WiiWare stuff, and practically ignore the DS by accident.  What I do think they miscalculated was the amount of negative press they'd receive due to their casual skewing.

[Michael8983]

The blame goes mostly to fans for psyching themselves up way too much for what is quickly becoming a non-event. But Reggie didn't help with his "core gamers" comment. People just need to keep in mind he's a PR guy for Nintendo of AMERICA.
Unless it comes from someone high ranking at Nintendo of Japan, it's to be taken with a grain of salt.

[GoldenPhoenix]

The blame goes mostly to fans for psyching themselves up way too much for what is quickly becoming a non-event. But Reggie didn't help with his "core gamers" comment. People just need to keep in mind he's a PR guy for Nintendo of AMERICA.
Unless it comes from someone high ranking at Nintendo of Japan, it's to be taken with a grain of salt.

Not to mention that most of Nintendo's branches seem to out of the loop when it comes to what Nintendo of Japan is thinking of doing.

[Dasmos]

Has anyone even entertained the possibility that Nintendo changed their mind on what to show at E3 after Reggie made his "comment"?

[redgiemental]

At the moment the main Wii I'm looking forward to is The Conduit but its out next year. I've already got Dead Rising for the 360 and I don't think I'll be buying it a second time.

Theres Deadly Creatures I guess. Warioland should be good but prob short since its Wiiware. Anything else I should be looking forward to?

I still think they could have thrown "core gamers" something. Reggie tells us they will have something for us and then just non-news.

Honestly looks like my 360 will be the main base of operations ......if it doesn't break lol

[Dasmos]

Wario Land isn't WiiWare.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Has anyone even entertained the possibility that Nintendo changed their mind on what to show at E3 after Reggie made his "comment"?

I have. The thing is that we have no idea what went on between Reggie's comments and the E3 show. Nintendo has been known to change on a dime in the past or flat out "forget" what was said previously (Animal Crossing, and MP3 at launch anyone?). This is no different except people for some odd reason are reading tons into it. Classic Nintendo is what happened at E3, nothing more, nothing less.

[redgiemental]

Oh Warioland is a retail release? Excellent my interest has increased massively.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Has anyone even entertained the possibility that Nintendo changed their mind on what to show at E3 after Reggie made his "comment"?

Nintendo did what they set out to do:  Be the victor at the "old" E3 in 2006, and destroy the Hardcore Carnival that it is (took 2 more years to seal the deal).

Conquer the enemy kingdom and burn down their castle that fell over and sank into the swamp. but the 4th castle stayed up LADDIE

[SixthAngel]

Make no mistake though, E3 was not a miscalculation on Nintendo's part.  They knew exactly what they were doing.  You don't omit a litany of excellent Wii games from your E3 presentation, show no WiiWare stuff, and practically ignore the DS by accident.  What I do think they miscalculated was the amount of negative press they'd receive due to their casual skewing.

Negative press?  From who?  Gamestop? Gamefaqs? Kotaku? Destructoid?  The people that were saying these things about the Wii for a long time already.  These places are being shown irrelevent.

Don't forget that at this point negative views from these sites can even have postivie consequences.  The more the "geeks" who play so many games claim a console sucks it gives other people a reason to see it as different and a legitimate way to spend their time.  Nintendo wants to change the perception of games and this actually helps that image.  Any new Wii fan or potential new gamer is going to picture some big fat sweaty guy with a neckbeard complaining about his l33t gamez.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

I'd better shave.

[UltimatePartyBear]

Don't forget that at this point negative views from these sites can even have postivie consequences.  The more the "geeks" who play so many games claim a console sucks it gives other people a reason to see it as different and a legitimate way to spend their time.  Nintendo wants to change the perception of games and this actually helps that image.  Any new Wii fan or potential new gamer is going to picture some big fat sweaty guy with a neckbeard complaining about his l33t gamez.

That reminds me of a discussion I had once with a coworker about the Enter the Matrix debacle and how it was a huge title with an enormous budget that turned out to be crap.  He wondered if maybe he'd like it since it was a game all the regular gamers thought was terrible.  That seems rather prophetic in hindsight.

[Ian Sane]

That reminds me of a discussion I had once with a coworker about the Enter the Matrix debacle and how it was a huge title with an enormous budget that turned out to be crap.  He wondered if maybe he'd like it since it was a game all the regular gamers thought was terrible.  That seems rather prophetic in hindsight.

This reminds me of some of people I know who claim they never listen to film critics and in fact pretty much do the opposite of what they say.  I've seen my share of films that critics hated that I liked and vice versa but generally if I go by the fresh ratings on Rotten Tomatoes I avoid a lot of crap.  These people almost invariably have horrible taste in everything, are easily confused, spout ignorant "facts" that are easily proven wrong with five seconds of research (but they still maintain they are correct even when clear evidence to the contrary is presented), have poor driving records, always have money problems despite being well paid, need jokes explained to them, never pick up on anything subtle, and can't spell.

Critics aren't trying to trick you.  They're not infallible but they generally know what they're talking about.  There's nothing wrong with being a smart shopper and having good taste.  But hey ignornance is so much more fun so let's all watch American Idol because we're too lazy or stupid to discover better TV shows.

Catering to the lowest common denominator makes no sense.  It's like reverse evolution.

[UltimatePartyBear]

He and I didn't agree on everything, but he was a smart guy and I respected him (all that past tense makes it sound like he died, but he just moved to Tennessee [insert obvious joke here]).  I believe his line of thinking was that the game might not have all the trappings of typical games that he didn't like and might be more accessible to him.  Of course, his thinking was flawed because he didn't take into account the possibility that gamers could hate the game for reasons he might agree with, and I told him so at the time.  I have no idea whether he ever tried the game.  I just find it interesting to recall that moment today because I see now that he was demonstrating the presence of an untapped market well before I ever heard the term Blue Ocean.

[Kairon]

Catering to the lowest common denominator makes no sense.  It's like reverse evolution.

I don't subscribe to hardcore darwinism. I believe that once a species, like the human race, is so successful that it faces almost no outside evolutionary pressure, then its genetic strategy changes to diversify the gene pool in preparation for some future unpredictable catastrophic event.

This is why once a society solves the problems of its own existence, it moves on to measuring how well it cares about the sick and the weak. People with serious genetic diseases are normally hosed: they're likely to be wiped out if we adhere to strict individual darwinism. But these "unworthy" or "lowest common denominator" genes are being saved by medical technology today and are not being persecuted or ignored.

Likewise, now games are learning to embrace audiences who aren't as game-hardy or game-fit. It can do this because the industry has grown and evolved to such a point that it can bring what it's learned and has to offer out of the "good 'ol boy's club" and give it to people who have as much a right to exist, and as much a right to game, as you and I. And by diversifying the base, helping those who need more help than regular gamers, and bringing more gamers into the fold now that there's no risk of diluting focus on the hardcore market (if there's one thing that E3 convinced me, it's that hardcore is NOT dead)... by doing all these things the industry is able to ensure a healthier, more adaptive, more inclusive future, and one that's more likely to weather any unexpected collapses or challenges or events that would normally wipe out a narrowly-focused (one-crop) entity.

[Ian Sane]

It can do this because the industry has grown and evolved to such a point that it can bring what it's learned and has to offer out of the "good 'ol boy's club" and give it to people who have as much a right to exist, and as much a right to game, as you and I.

Right to exist and right to game are pretty different.  There is nothing wrong with skill requirements.  I play guitar.  I had to learn how to do that.  It took time and dedication.  And on top of that I was blessed with a sense of rhythm and timing.  One of my brothers can't play a simple 4/4 beat on a drum.  He can try all he wants but he doesn't have any rhythm or timing.  He can't play an instrument.  Lousy luck.  I however have balance issues and can't ride a skateboard.  Bummer for me.  Both of us are locked out of certain leisure activities because we lack the simplest of entry level skills.  And it's all stuff we can't do anything about either.

But I don't expect the skateboarding community to nerf skateboarding to the point that someone like me who can't get into it can.  So why is this okay with games?  Videogames aren't passive.  They require some effort and some people just can't do it.  And they don't have a right to ask us to bend over backwards for them.  No one lets me in the skateboarding club but that's life.  Though they could in theory make skateboards wider, add handlebars like a scooter and make the tricks less risky and easier to perform.

My Mom can't even play Wii Sports.  She is so naturally terrible at videogames that she can't even return one ball in tennis.  She can't do it.  I guess Nintendo better get to work on that.  With Wii Music maybe they are.

Besides it isn't as simple as just lowering the basic requirements to let more people in the club.  This effectively locks out people on the other end because the bar is lowered enough that they no longer find it interesting.  To me there's a maximum occupancy and to get more people in you have to kick people out.  Nintendo can only do so much.  Targetting the non-gamers since day one has been at the expense of the old group.  How could it not be?  It's not like they doubled their development staff.

This is why once a society solves the problems of its own existence, it moves on to measuring how well it cares about the sick and the weak.

Most people like what I desribed in my last post are not sick and weak.  They are not "dumb" because of genetics but rather a lack of stimulation and encouragement to seek out that stimulation.  Focusing on the common denominator TRAINS people to be dumb.  That's why they call it dumbing down.  I work for a software company.  These same people who can't understand all but the simplist jokes are still smart enough to program.  So obviously they have the genetic intelligence.

[Kairon]

But I don't expect the skateboarding community to nerf skateboarding to the point that someone like me who can't get into it can.  So why is this okay with games?  Videogames aren't passive.  They require some effort and some people just can't do it.  And they don't have a right to ask us to bend over backwards for them.  No one lets me in the skateboarding club but that's life.  Though they could in theory make skateboards wider, add handlebars like a scooter and make the tricks less risky and easier to perform.

No one's nerfing skateboarding, or videogames. The traditional vs. casual is a false dichotomy that does us no justice to consider in this context.

The hardcore market is just as strong as ever. I walked out of the E3 Press Conference with one conviction: hardcore games are never going away. It's ridiculous to suppose think that they're going to die out: just look at the sales numbers for companies like Valve. And look at Epic: their Mark Rein obviously has no interest in pursuing an expanded audience and how's that doing for them? GREAT! They're in no danger of going out of business.

People complained about the same thing with reality TV, how it would kill off traditional scripted shows. It's true that now reality TV has become integrated into the fabric of television programming, but despite lots of "lower common denominaotr" people getting catered to, I've rediscovered wonderful scripted TV like Ugly Betty, Burn Notice, my cousins are making me watch all of Veronica Mars, and the list goes on and on.

Doom and gloom is fun to harp about and convenient to fear. But the lowest common denominator hasn't killed off movies, tv, or even literature. I'm confident that instead of killing gaming, it'll just make it richer.

Most people like what I desribed in my last post are not sick and weak.  They are not "dumb" because of genetics but rather a lack of stimulation and encouragement to seek out that stimulation.  Focusing on the common denominator TRAINS people to be dumb.  That's why they call it dumbing down.  I work for a software company.  These same people who can't understand all but the simplist jokes are still smart enough to program.  So obviously they have the genetic intelligence.

Games are, almost by definition, designed to stimulate and challenge faculties. Believe it or not Ian, people don't play games they find boring. Are you still as interested in tic-tac-toe as I was in the third grade? Probably not. Some people are playing tic-tac-toe right now. There's nothing wrong with that.

Some will graduate to checkers. Some don't care at all and want to play a good game of clue. Or trivial pursuit. Some want to play a Teenage Ninja Turtle's board game (omg so awesome) or perhaps some people are actually ready for some WarHammer 40,000? Why can't videogames be like this, with something for everybody, at every level, inclusive and always with options for where people can go to find the next challenge?

People pooh-poohed Bejeweled when it came out. Now those same players who started playing simple match-3 games... they're playing Puzzle Quest, or even more impressive, Yohoho Puzzle Pirates. Seriously, I tried playing Puzzle Pirates. That game is HARDCORE. Bejeweled players learned to play a friggin MMO... and they do it better than I do.

[King of Twitch]

Isn't Miyamoto's attention being diverted from games that really need it? He could've used the two years on Wii Music to make an epic game like Yoshi's Island 3D.

And reality tv is truly snowballing into stupidity with each new "twist". Over time this means more and more stupid tv shows are played in reruns.

Last, where do hover boards fit in? They have connectivity sure, but there's not that many good tricks and grinding is near-impossible.