Topic: Resident Evil 5 is the greatest thing ever.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Here's the picture of the woman in question. Blonde hair, little black dress. Huh?
http://media.crispygamer.com/screenshot/Title178/re5_1882.jpg

Ghastly. I am so offended.

What purpose does having a zombie drag a random character who completely doesn't fit the surroundings away serve?

Only black people live in Africa, white people are not allowed, especially pretty white women. Not to mention the RE games are so logical. You are right, I was wrong! Thanks for clearing that up. Zombies would take more care in the race of women they abduct because they are racially sensitive.

[Smash_Brother]

Ghastly. I am so offended.

You've already made up your mind on the subject; that much is crystal clear, but I'd like to see you make a compelling argument for why A) this character is here at all and B) why the scene was even included to begin with.

I don't know if Capcom was being intentionally racist (I honestly doubt they were) but seriously, someone there needs to consider how people outside of Japan will react to something.

For example, I didn't know that a "thumbs up" means "Up yours" in certain countries until someone told me, but upon learning this, I made sure that I changed a character design that previously included the character using a thumbs up pose.

It's not rocket science. It's just a bit of research.

Only black people live in Africa, white people are not allowed, especially pretty white women. Not to mention the RE games are so logical. You are right, I was wrong! Thanks for clearing that up. Zombies would take more care in the race of women they abduct because they are racially sensitive.

It's not "Africa", where plenty of white people live, as I'm perfectly aware.

It's a small, desolate war-torn, shantytown village in the middle of nowhere in Africa. Just look at the screenshot where the camera is viewing Chris and the woman through a ruined wall.

The woman wouldn't have made any sense in the village from RE4 either and would've raised just as many questions had she shown up there, mainly because the cost of the dress she's wearing is probably more than the GDP of everyone in the village.

[Spak-Spang]

Its because all women in video games are portrayed that way...almost no female character moderately dresses.  But the simple fact is the more attractive you make the girl look and the more either the more pretty she is, or the more helpless she looks the more sympathy we have for them.

Look at EVERY horror film.  Why do the girls wear that in the woods or what not? 


My main point is it is stupid to assume blatant racism when we know the developers did not mean it as such.  And to get in their heads and assume they really did mean that is impossible and judgmental.

But the more we talk about this PC sort of racism that may or may not be real, it diminishes the effects or real racism.  It is out there and real, but most people just don't care or really focus on racism stories anymore because they hear about all these supposed examples and get annoyed. 

This game isn't racist. 

[ShyGuy]

This is a problem with RE5 trying to be too realistic compared to previous RE games. Midgets dressed as Napoleon was fine in RE4.

[GoldenPhoenix]

This is really the same concept behind who the media chooses to put emphasis on in murders or abductions. It is usually attractive white women, mainly because the ethnic group that will watch it is majority white. Capcom most likely chose a white woman (she could be a slutty peace keeper!) because it connected more with the group that will be majority owner of the game, white men, and the race of the zombies did not come into play. Nothing more, nothing less. It is the same reason you see more white male heroes then some other ace (or gender), they are playing to the majority.  They believe if you are going to have a damsel in distress that you want to have the most impact with the majority emotionally they should be of the same ethnic group.

[Smash_Brother]

My main point is it is stupid to assume blatant racism when we know the developers did not mean it as such.  And to get in their heads and assume they really did mean that is impossible and judgmental.

My argument stems from another point the reviewer made:

When Evan Narcisse and I spoke with Jun Takeuchi at the DICE Summit a few weeks back, I asked Takeuchi if Chris Redfield, who behaves like a selfish jackass throughout the entire game, is intended to be a satiric comment on American culture.

Turns out I was giving Takeuchi and his team too much credit. To my disappointment, he explained that this wasn't his intention at all. "[Chris] probably isn't a nice person to be around," he said. "He probably isn't good at dealing with other people because he takes his work so seriously. You can see that in a lot of other [Japanese] games, too. Japanese people tend to like those kinds of characters more than Americans do."

Which brings me to the most troubling aspect of Resident Evil 5 -- and on a more global scale, with the videogames being produced by Japanese developers these days. They lack an awareness of the rest of the world, and an understanding of the subtext they create.

That once-charming Japanese irreverence? (Example: the absurd pseudo-macho things that Street Fighter IV's characters say before and after fights.) It's not charming anymore; it's annoying and small-minded; it's lazy. It's no longer acceptable to explain away a game's shortcomings with the excuse that "it's Japanese," and therefore comprehendible only to Japanese people. The medium has become a global entertainment; it's not the niche hobby it was five or 10 years ago. And that ever-expanding audience -- different ethnicities, different tax brackets, different levels of education, different points of view -- must be considered.

It doesn't matter if Capcom meant it or not. It's the fact that, when more Americans are buying your game than Japanese, it's time to at LEAST start thinking about what may be considered offensive to them.

This is really the same concept behind who the media chooses to put emphasis on in murders or abductions. It is usually attractive white women, mainly because the ethnic group that will watch it is majority white. Capcom most likely chose a white woman (she could be a slutty peace keeper!) because it connected more with the group that will be majority owner of the game, white men, and the race of the zombies did not come into play. Nothing more, nothing less.

And the scene was necessary...why?

RE4 was a fucking amazing game without Leon stumbling upon random people being dragged off to die. In fact, it would've killed the immersion factor by making me pause to wonder what the hell they were doing there in the first place instead of allowing me to focus on how to best avoid losing my head via chainsaw.

Like I said, I doubt Capcom meant it, but really, Japanese developers shouldn't be excused from making something offensive because they're Japanese. Knowing what your audience may take offense to is part of being a developer.

[GoldenPhoenix]

It doesn't matter if Capcom meant it or not. It's the fact that, when more Americans are buying your game than Japanese, it's time to at LEAST start thinking about what may be considered offensive to them.

The last thing I want game developers to do is think about what will offend "X" group.

And the scene was necessary...why?

RE4 was a fucking amazing game without Leon stumbling upon random people being dragged off to die. In fact, it would've killed the immersion factor by making me pause to wonder what the hell they were doing there in the first place instead of allowing me to focus on how to best avoid losing my head via chainsaw instead.

Didn't say it was a good scene but far from racist. You have to remember this game had ZERO input from the creator of RE4. They seemed to be going for what was "cool" or scary then what made sense. This game is a good example of why developers avoid having black people in their games, because no matter what was intended people are going to go the extra mile to read racist symbolism into it.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Infecting white chix with mouth-to-mouth SARS is COOL.

MadWorld already makes more sense than this game and its production ideals combined.

RE5 makes No More Heroes look like Braveheart.

[Halbred]

OH MY GOD.

Spak, seriously, I question whether you'd even give this scene a second glance if you played through it before reading the CrispyGamer review. Somebody is telling you that they think it's horribly offensive. I can't tell you why a pretty blonde is wandering around an African shantytown, but maybe the game takes place near South Africa? I don't know, but if you really need an explaination that the game does not provide, make one up or ask the developers. CrispyGamer should not assume racism--that's presumptive and, frankly, looking for a fight.

Japanese irreverence is a completely different topic, one that is, ironically, irrelevant. People still buy Final Fantasy and Street Fighter, and chuckle at the obviously-Japanese mannerisms. It's an accepted part of gaming. The industry STEMS FROM Japan. Anybody who's ever picked up a controller knows that. Are the Japanese willingly insulated? Sure, to some extent. But we buy games with that knowlege!

Mario will never talk. Ever. I know and accept that. I don't like it, and yeah, I chalk it up to Nintendo "irreverence," but it doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game. I go in to Galaxy fully accepting that Nintendo will never implement voice acting. Besides, Capcom's take on Chris isn't meant to be offensive. Last night on 30 Rock, Jack Doneghue was trying to come up with a name for his miniature microwave, and threw out several names because "they're offensive in other languages."

If you focus on pleasing everybody, you're not going to please ANYONE. Somebody is going to take offense at something, and you can't control that. People like CrispyGamer look for reasons to be offended, but that doesn't mean you have to.

[Stogi]

Have you thought maybe because they view the audience as mostly white so putting white woman in danger with ANY zombie would reverberate more?

Isn't that racist on it's own? As a white woman, does seeing a black woman being raped and mutilated not reverberate as much as a white woman in the same situation? Isn't the act of violence horrible enough already? Why did they have to implant a sexy white woman in order to create "the strongest reaction"?

Can't you see how that is fundamentally wrong?

This is really the same concept behind who the media chooses to put emphasis on in murders or abductions. It is usually attractive white women, mainly because the ethnic group that will watch it is majority white. Capcom most likely chose a white woman (she could be a slutty peace keeper!) because it connected more with the group that will be majority owner of the game, white men, and the race of the zombies did not come into play. Nothing more, nothing less. It is the same reason you see more white male heroes then some other ace (or gender), they are playing to the majority.  They believe if you are going to have a damsel in distress that you want to have the most impact with the majority emotionally they should be of the same ethnic group.

God. This is even worse.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

So since it's a white woman, Capcom WAS considering the Anglo-Saxon Western audience!  Yeah the whole "it's a japanese thingo" doesn't apply anymore.

[Stogi]

Look, I don't really care either way. This game looks terrible, plays terrible, and is made by one of my least favorite companies.

I don't care about black people being zombies and being shot down by white hulks. I don't really care about the white woman either. What I do care about is how people are still absolutely clueless and even worse, willing to defend how clueless they are.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Isn't that racist on it's own? As a white woman, does seeing a black woman being raped and mutilated not reverberate as much as a white woman in the same situation? Isn't the act of violence horrible enough already? Why did they have to implant a sexy white woman in order to create "the strongest reaction"?

You obviously didn't read what I wrote, I was saying that was Capcom's perspective and it has been common in video games ever since, well, you had graphics good enough to represent a white woman or any human character. Also you don't see her raped and mutilated. You find her and she turns into a zombie from what I understand. All you see is her drug away. The scene could also be based upon one of the staples of horror movies or really psychology in general where we connect more with people who don't really "belong" somewhere, it can invoke a sense of dread because we've all experienced it on some level. Wrong place wrong time.


The fact is that chances are the vast majority of people will not take a second look at it, and it will be (like always) a vocal minority who is offended.

[GoldenPhoenix]

What I do care about is how people are still absolutely clueless and even worse, willing to defend how clueless they are.

Clueless about what?

[Stogi]

Oh I'm not blaming your point of view, rather Capcom's. Capcom's intentions were wrong, plain and simple.

I'm not talking about you being clueless either. Capcom again, being dumb. I'm sure there was a discussion about this internally before the game was ever released. It's sad to think that even so, they push it out just the same.

Absolutely clueless.

[GoldenPhoenix]

ANYWAY I think this topic has been derailed enough lol.

Who here actually has played the game?

[Smash_Brother]

If you focus on pleasing everybody, you're not going to please ANYONE. Somebody is going to take offense at something, and you can't control that. People like CrispyGamer look for reasons to be offended, but that doesn't mean you have to.

Yes, because considering whether or not your game may have racist overtones is trying to please "everyone".

Really, we can't just cover this whole thing with a blanket statement like "They didn't mean it so it's okay" or "You're looking for reasons to be offended."

I'm a pretty open-minded guy and I frankly think being PC is irritating and a hinderance to race relations because it only serves to drive wedges by attempting to enforce the idea of everyone of every race being the same when people from all races are very often raised differently with a completely different set of beliefs and as such are completely different people.

Being politically correct poses the wrong question. It's not that we should view everyone as the same but that the differences in people should not override the basics of respect and human dignity offered to everyone.

That said, Capcom's actions in handling the racism issue (which they knew about since the very first RE5 trailer) seem to fall perfectly in line with their desire to release only rail shooters and ports to the Wii: in both cases, they've blundered around with all the common sense we once attributed to Sega and made all the wrong choices.

They already knew the final product would be heavily scrutinized for racism, so why they'd go out of their way to add a throwaway scene in which a white woman who isn't even characterized and doesn't belong in the game is dragged away by the hair by a black zombie is, to say the least, puzzling.

I don't care whether you're offended by it or not. The point is that Capcom and Japanese devs on the whole need to wake up and realize that there's a whole huge world out there beyond the comparatively tiny island of Japan that buys videogames. A world that, in fact, buys more videogames than the entirely of Japan at least threefold and taking that world into consideration shouldn't just be optional if the dev feels like it.

If I had a development team that released a game that hinted at racism toward Japanese or Asians in general, I'd get called on it so fast your head would spin, regardless of whether or not it was intentional.

Why do Japanese devs get a free pass to treat other races however they want?

ANYWAY I think this topic has been derailed enough lol.

Who here actually has played the game?

Yeah, back out when you get called out.

And I played the demo, hated the controls and that's pretty much the end of it.

[DAaaMan64]

IS NO ONE EVER HAPPY?  IT'S FRIGGIN PLACED IN AFRICA, It would be racist if they WEREN'T black. I mean just think of that Chappelle skit, "Last Nigga on Earth, Starring Tom Hanks"

If you jerks would stop continuous bringing this issue up, you'd stop perpetuating the problem! Damn racists

[Smash_Brother]

I think the lesson here is, simply put, Capcom sucks.

They suck for ignoring issues of racism and they suck for dumping rail-shooters and ports onto the Wii so they can make money to develop games for HD consoles.

[Smash_Brother]

Sigh...

Looks like the whole issue is for nothing.

Here's the actual video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ts7XtXxdq0&feature=related

And the followup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBUrDYWlCyE&feature=related

The guy isn't even black: in fact, he's clearly white, he doesn't drag her by the hair, and crispy is completely full of crap about the whole scene.

Still, begs the question what the hell she was doing there at all, and after watching a lot of the gameplay, I think I can get the same exact experience by replaying RE4 on Wii, only without the god-awful analogue aiming.

[Halbred]

*screams bloody murder*

[GoldenPhoenix]

Lol that is great. It would actually be pretty funny if the reason they put her in the game was so they could AVOID racism claims.

"Hey look we have a white girl!"

[Smash_Brother]

Lol that is great. It would actually be pretty funny if the reason they put her in the game was so they could AVOID racism claims.

"Hey look we have a white girl!"

Actually, they have Jill for that.

Also, looks like Whesker is, in fact, the one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZt4qQvprDA

[GoldenPhoenix]

Lol that is great. It would actually be pretty funny if the reason they put her in the game was so they could AVOID racism claims.

"Hey look we have a white girl!"

Actually, they have Jill for that.

Also, looks like Whesker is, in fact, the one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZt4qQvprDA

Yeah but she isn't BLOND and white. Or maybe Capcom thought people would enjoy shooting barbie doll blond zombies!

[bustin98]

For me, the idea isn't that its a white girl in a skimpy dress. It could be a black girl in a skimpy dress. Doesn't just the skimpy dress raise a question? Its not like a party just let out and she got seperated from the group. Ok, if the game has a bunch of other zombies in outfits fit for a social gathering then I'd buy it. Cause rich people love to go to poor villages just to party and get drunk in.

There is a suspension of belief that has to be taken into account for anything fantasy related. And when the creators start adding elements that shake that belief, it undermines the whole process. Replace the white girl in a dress with a dinosaur. Or a cyberpunk character. Its the only character of its kind in the game, yet its used to open the game. What is your reaction to the game? Each corner you come to you are going to ask 'Am I going to see another dinosaur already?' 'Where did that thing come from?' 'How come the story is acting like it was no big deal to turn a dinosaur into a zombie just for me to kill?'

I am not going to say there is racism in the game. I do think that they used race to make a scene more dramatic than it ever would be otherwise.