Author Topic: I hope "Secret Rings" doesn't suck... (Read 89714 times)

Arbok · « **Reply #25 on:** January 04, 2007, 03:23:34 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Also, is it true that Yuji Naka left Sonic Team? I've heard that a few times but never confirmed it...

Source

He said in March of '06 that he was leaving Sonic Team to start his own studio... the question still remains if that was going to be as part of Sega still or not. Regardless, he did leave the studio earlier this year; however, he still worked on the 360 "Sonic the Hedgehog", didn't direct it though.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #26 on:** January 04, 2007, 03:24:39 PM »

The real issues with the Sonic games are:

1. Camera is horrible.

2. Sonic games should involve more playing as...you know...Sonic. When the games focused entirely on the speedy gameplay of Sonic with some mild exploration and puzzle solving, people loved them. The formulaic addition of Knuckle's/Rouge's scavenger hunts and the plodding platforming of Tails/Robotnik basically veered away from the REASON people played Sonic games in the first place.

I'm not sure why Sonic Heroes was poorly received, only that it was almost universally hated. I suspect that spreading the development resources thin across three consoles hindered the game (it always does).

Crimm · « **Reply #27 on:** January 04, 2007, 03:50:22 PM »

IN HIS WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORLD!

Sonic Team needs to fire everyone even remotely involved in their musical choices... into the Sun. I could post a lyrical excerpt from A Ghost's Pumpkin Soup (Sonic Adventure 2: "Pumpkin Hill Zone"), but I couldn't bring myself to even look at the lyrics again. Just take my word for it when I say you don't want to know anything about "The fighting freak Knuckles" and that you are most certainly not "ready!"

Anyway, here is an example of the load times in Sonic The Hedgehog (360). As you can see, they're pretty unbearable. They're also totally inexcusable, I mean 30 seconds for one line of dialog? They're clearly reloading the entire level per question, TWICE. Apparently no one at Sonic Team has heard of scripted events.

Darc Requiem · « **Reply #28 on:** January 04, 2007, 04:10:16 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
The real issues with the Sonic games are:

1. Camera is horrible.

2. Sonic games should involve more playing as...you know...Sonic. When the games focused entirely on the speedy gameplay of Sonic with some mild exploration and puzzle solving, people loved them. The formulaic addition of Knuckle's/Rouge's scavenger hunts and the plodding platforming of Tails/Robotnik basically veered away from the REASON people played Sonic games in the first place.

I'm not sure why Sonic Heroes was poorly received, only that it was almost universally hated. I suspect that spreading the development resources thin across three consoles hindered the game (it always does).

Actually Sonic Heroes was developed as a Gamecube exclusive initially and then it was changed to multiplatform. Thats why the Gamecube looks and runs the best. The PS2 version looked and ran horribly.

capamerica · « **Reply #29 on:** January 04, 2007, 04:34:19 PM »

Sonic died for me after the release of Sonic Heroes and Shadow.
I've been holding on to hope that one day we might see the rebirth of Sonic but after Sonic Battle, Sonic Heroes, Shadow, Sonic Riders, Sonic Next Gen, Sonic 15th bday, and Sonic Rivals I have no faith left. There was a little glimmer of hope when Sonic Rush came out but that was stomped on when Sonic Next Gen and Sonic Rivals came out.

When I saw the trailer for Sonic Next Gen I was extremely happy it looked like Sonic Team was going back to the Sonic Adventure format. Sonic Next gen looked like it could have been Sonic Adventure 3. But when the demo showed up on XboxLive I was in for a rude awaking the game played worst then Sonic DX. But I said to myself "hey its just a demo, they'll fix it" but sadly they didn't infact the actual game itself was far worst. And don't even get me started on Sonic Rivals, that game sucked, its like Sonic R on rails. I don't hold any hope that Secret Rings will be good.

Unless Sonic Team can pull a miracle out of Secret Rings I will not be buying any more Sonic games or anything made by Sonic Team.

Requiem · « **Reply #30 on:** January 04, 2007, 04:47:05 PM »

The way I look at SR's is, it reminds me of those parts in BattleToads where you had to zig/zag left and right or jump at certain moments except it's in 3D. And that actually sounds kinda cool.

Still, Sonic should be made in 2D. Just like jungle beat....

Artimus · « **Reply #31 on:** January 04, 2007, 05:09:40 PM »

All Sonic games suck. The original are obnoxious games that substitute speed for level design. Horrid.

Smash_Brother · « **Reply #32 on:** January 04, 2007, 06:07:34 PM »

Ah, Cap reminded me: I forgot about Sonic Riders, Rivals and Battle.

NWR_pap64 · « **Reply #33 on:** January 04, 2007, 06:20:43 PM »

I mentioned SB in the afternoon as he was posting this that while the initial Sonic and the SR impressions were good, the first level might be very good, but it might go downhill from there.

I loved Sonic adventure on the Dreamcast. It was the first game I bought for the console and I would play till the wee hours of the morning, trying to get all the animals for my Chaos (which is a whole another story to tell), completing the story and playing as all the characters.

Sonic adventure 2 was fun. The story was interesting, and it had some crazy ass levels, but it was starting to go downhill for me. After all, its been nothing but crapfest.

Like SB, SR is my last hope for the Sonic franchise. After that, I am DONE with the series.

King of Twitch · « **Reply #34 on:** January 04, 2007, 06:38:48 PM »

The more stupid Sonic games you purchase, the more stupid Sonic games you'll get.

Dasmos · « **Reply #35 on:** January 04, 2007, 09:06:57 PM »

I really enjoyed the first level in SA2:B (except the music), but after that there was nothing remotely playable about the game.

chrisbg99 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 04, 2007, 09:20:23 PM »

I figure there hasn't been a good Sonic game since Sonic & Knuckles. Been a downhill slide, well more like crash, ever since.

Kairon · « **Reply #37 on:** January 04, 2007, 10:19:09 PM »

I hope it doesn't suck too. This'll be the first Sonic game I'll buy... this WILL be the first Sonic game I'll have ever bought!

VC doesn't count.

~Carmine "Cai" M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

Caliban · « **Reply #38 on:** January 05, 2007, 01:30:30 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Artimus
All Sonic games suck. The original are obnoxious games that substitute speed for level design. Horrid.

Sonic Rush(DS) is great.

Nick DiMola · « **Reply #39 on:** January 05, 2007, 02:20:37 AM »

Why does Sonic have to be in 3D at all? They should just figure out ways to expand on the 2D nature of the game and make that more exciting. Everything in the game can be rendered in 3D ala NSMB and you can do the dimension bending stuff seen in Klonoa 2 and Kirby 64.

Sega has been trying so damn hard to adapt Sonic to 3D when it just isn't a 3D game. Sonic Adventure wasn't too bad but it sure as hell wasn't a Mario 64. The old Sonic games were great competition for Mario back in the day. Each series was unique and a ton of fun to play. Once the 3D switch happened, Mario left Sonic in the dust, and Sonic was no longer any fun.

If Sega were to just release a giant 2D super adventure for Sonic it would be a smash hit. All I would have to hear is 2D Sonic and I wouldn't even think twice about missing that purchase and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

JonLeung · « **Reply #40 on:** January 05, 2007, 02:36:44 AM »

I don't know why people praise Super Mario 64 so much but don't like Sonic Adventure. (Okay, though I've played Sonic's 3D offerings, I've only played a few minutes of the first Sonic Adventure on Dreamcast and the voice acting is atrocious, but still.) They say it's a bad transition into 3D unlike Mario's transition.

Now, Super Mario 64 is a great game, really it is, but when it came out I was mourning the loss of what I liked about Mario games. Where are the bricks and blocks? Why are there so few Goombas? Why can't I kick ricocheting Koopa shells around? Where's the Fire Flower? Why am I spending more time punching than stomping? Where are the Koopalings? Where's Yoshi (I mean other than the roof) and Luigi and alternating two-player? Now instead of dealing with obstacles as they come and running and jumping to the end goal before the time is up, I'm now looking for Stars. There is nothing wrong with the new formula, and I do like the game, but it sure is a departure from any previous Mario game.

Then you look at Sonic. You're still running to the goal, at least when you're playing as Sonic. So they kept that part of it. When you're playing as other characters like Knuckles in Adventure 2 and have to slow down to look for stuff, why is that a bad change when Mario is now also looking for stuff? I don't get it. Is Sonic's transition to 3D so much more different than Mario's transition into 3D? Do non-Sonic characters really suck so much (other than Big the Cat)?

Perhaps since everyone felt Super Mario 64 was a great game that they felt it was a good transition (whatever was missing didn't matter) that they felt every good franchise should be able to make it in 3D, that when Sonic Adventure came out there were expectations that weren't quite met and all of the sudden it's not as good a game. Could that be it?

I could be missing something, admittedly. I welcome you to prove me wrong, because I'm enjoying the Sonic 3D games and apparently I'm told that I shouldn't.

Terranigma Freak · « **Reply #41 on:** January 05, 2007, 02:52:45 AM »

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Now, Super Mario 64 is a great game, really it is, but when it came out I was mourning the loss of what I liked about Mario games. Where are the bricks and blocks? Why are there so few Goombas? Why can't I kick ricocheting Koopa shells around? Where's the Fire Flower? Why am I spending more time punching than stomping? Where are the Koopalings? Where's Yoshi (I mean other than the roof) and Luigi and alternating two-player? Now instead of dealing with obstacles as they come and running and jumping to the end goal before the time is up, I'm now looking for Stars. There is nothing wrong with the new formula, and I do like the game, but it sure is a departure from any previous Mario game.

You must hate Yoshi's Island and Mario 2 then. Yes, I'm well aware that Mario 2 isn't really a Mario game, but it was still a very good game. If Mario games should always remain the same, then Mario should be trying to save Pauline and stop Donkey Kong.

Mario 64's design was brilliant. The game was FUN. That is what it had in common with all the Mario games. While I kind of agree that the world of Mario 64 was too different, I'm going to say that if it was just like all the other Mario games before it, people wil critisize it for being uncreative. If Mario didn't get new abilities in 3D, I'm sure people would be disappointed. Part of the fun is how much you can do with Mario without having to gain a power up.

couchmonkey · « **Reply #42 on:** January 05, 2007, 03:08:35 AM »

I was reading the Nintendo Power retrospective on the series and I was (slightly) surprised to learn that NOBODY of consequence who worked on Sonic the Hedgehog works on the series any more. Only one of those people even works for Sega anymore. It was also interesting to hear how they came up with the game, and to look at how the later games have betrayed the original vision. Speed was to be the thing that separated Sonic from the many Mario clones.

I liked Sonic Adventure 2, but I haven't played the rest. I think the big complaint is that the series does have significant flaws, but Sega never does anything about them. In all fairness to Sega, the games sell quite well anyway, so why fix it? Disappointingly, Sonic Rush seems to be the biggest sales failure the series has had lately.

Personally, I don't think there has to be a "last chance" for Sonic, someone could always come back and fix it one day in the future, like Tomb Raider. Sonic Ring Toss is just the latest chance to turn the series around.

Edit: On Mario's transition to 3D, it's true that the games didn't retain much of the 2D game design, but they maintained a level of quality and fun that 3D Sonic is lacking. Then again, it could be fair to say that Sonic has always been lacking compared to Mario, I've never played the 2D games.

JonLeung · « **Reply #43 on:** January 05, 2007, 03:16:18 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Terranigma Freak
Quote
Now, Super Mario 64 is a great game, really it is, but when it came out I was mourning the loss of what I liked about Mario games. Where are the bricks and blocks? Why are there so few Goombas? Why can't I kick ricocheting Koopa shells around? Where's the Fire Flower? Why am I spending more time punching than stomping? Where are the Koopalings? Where's Yoshi (I mean other than the roof) and Luigi and alternating two-player? Now instead of dealing with obstacles as they come and running and jumping to the end goal before the time is up, I'm now looking for Stars. There is nothing wrong with the new formula, and I do like the game, but it sure is a departure from any previous Mario game.

You must hate Yoshi's Island and Mario 2 then. Yes, I'm well aware that Mario 2 isn't really a Mario game, but it was still a very good game. If Mario games should always remain the same, then Mario should be trying to save Pauline and stop Donkey Kong.

Mario 64's design was brilliant. The game was FUN. That is what it had in common with all the Mario games. While I kind of agree that the world of Mario 64 was too different, I'm going to say that if it was just like all the other Mario games before it, people wil critisize it for being uncreative. If Mario didn't get new abilities in 3D, I'm sure people would be disappointed. Part of the fun is how much you can do with Mario without having to gain a power up.

I don't hate Bros. 2 or World 2, and if I did, it wouldn't be for the same reasons (I mean, geez, you quoted the part where I even mentioned twice that I do like 64). Okay, the two games you mentioned had some differences from other Mario games too but they were still 2D platformers. And I do agree that some gameplay changes had to be made for 3D.

I guess I ranted too much to not make my point clear - Mario had significant changes in gameplay besides being in 3D when he made the dimensional jump. Sonic had some changes too but apparently fans think they're so much different and somehow made worse. My point is, were their transitions really that different?

Mario · « **Reply #44 on:** January 05, 2007, 03:16:39 AM »

Quote
I was reading the Nintendo Power retrospective on the series and I was (slightly) surprised to learn that NOBODY of consequence who worked on Sonic the Hedgehog works on the series any more. Only one of those people even works for Sega anymore.

Wow, I never knew that. So the Sonic series really is completely dead, oh well, those classics will live on forever! I have secretly been hoping one day a Sonic game would come out as good as the old ones, but it looks like Sega are actually trying their hardest with these new crappy ones, and they just can't do it. Anyone know where the composers of the old Sonic tunes are now? That was probably the best part of the old Sonic experience and one that is lacking hugely now.

JonLeung · « **Reply #45 on:** January 05, 2007, 03:33:57 AM »

What, you don't like pop music?

"Live and learn!"
"Like a laser beam, my eye's on you!"
"Team Chaotix!"

Then again I always loved Chemical Plant's stage music from Sonic The Hedgehog 2. Or it was always stuck in my head. One of the two. Great, now it's in my head again.

Ian Sane · « **Reply #46 on:** January 05, 2007, 04:48:37 AM »

"Then you look at Sonic. You're still running to the goal, at least when you're playing as Sonic. So they kept that part of it. When you're playing as other characters like Knuckles in Adventure 2 and have to slow down to look for stuff, why is that a bad change when Mario is now also looking for stuff? I don't get it. Is Sonic's transition to 3D so much more different than Mario's transition into 3D? Do non-Sonic characters really suck so much (other than Big the Cat)?"

I narrow it down to the basic core of the game. The most important thing about Mario is jumping. Super Mario 64 has tons of that. The scavenger hunt stuff requires a lot of jumping. Sonic is about speed. The Knuckles scavenger hunt crap doesn't have that element. Neither does the mech stuff. What makes Sonic Sonic is gone in those stages.

Though I think quality has a lot to do with it as well. Super Mario 64 really was a mind-blowing game when it was released. Sonic Adventure not so much though was still popular and I would consider it a good game. The problem is Sonic has dropped like a rock since then so there's general backlash against Sonic in 3D in general because all but one of the 3D games suck (though Sonic Adventure 2 has like three good levels at least). Honestly Mario would probably get the same flack if his track record was that poor as well but it isn't so he's still a successful transition to 3D. Though if Galaxy is as "bad" as Sunshine there will probably be backlash for Mario too.

One thing that is really annoying is that Sonic kind of DID make a successful transition to 3D. Sonic Adventure was pretty popular. Then they added those stupid supporting character levels and everyone complained and instead of going back to the Sonic Adventure way of doing things they tinkered more and f*cked everything up. Why didn't they just make Sonic Adventure 3 with only Sonic levels?

couchmonkey · « **Reply #47 on:** January 05, 2007, 05:07:40 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Mario

Wow, I never knew that. So the Sonic series really is completely dead, oh well, those classics will live on forever! I have secretly been hoping one day a Sonic game would come out as good as the old ones, but it looks like Sega are actually trying their hardest with these new crappy ones, and they just can't do it. Anyone know where the composers of the old Sonic tunes are now? That was probably the best part of the old Sonic experience and one that is lacking hugely now.

I don't remember the details, but again from Nintendo Power, apparently Sega hired a somewhat well-known pop artist to work on the soundtrack for Sonic the Hedgehog (not sure if he worked on any of the later games or not). They wanted the game to feel futuristic and "cool" compared to Mario. To that end, the art design was based on the look of 3D computer graphics and Sonic had "attitude".

It was a pretty good write-up. NP has a couple of good interviews and features each month, but the rest is so-so.

NinGurl69 *huggles · « **Reply #48 on:** January 05, 2007, 05:24:32 AM »

SONIC AND THE LORD OF THE RINGS

RUN THRU MIDDLE EARF AT SONIC SPEEDS!

JonLeung · « **Reply #49 on:** January 05, 2007, 06:27:04 AM »

Well, one does not simply walk into Mordor. You run!

Wait...I probably mean "Mordorbius".

Oh, wait, I am confusing myself. It's only the early games that take place on Mobius, right? Then in the 3D games it's Earth?

News:

Author Topic: I hope "Secret Rings" doesn't suck... (Read 89714 times)