Topic: I hope "Secret Rings" doesn't suck...

[Luigi Dude]

Actually if Nintendo bought Sonic Team it would be great, because you know why.  When Miyamoto comes to check on the progress of their games, he'd be so angry with how bad the games are he'd flip the tea table over, then he'd pick up the tea table and beat every member of Sonic Team with it and tell them to start over.

I think after about 126 beatings Sonic Team would get something right, or eventually die from head trauma.

[Smash_Brother]

LOL and agreed!

Get Miyamoto in there to crack the whip and see to it that the blue devil who once stood as his own baby's arch nemesis is restored to his former glory.

It sounds impossible, but remember that Disney just "merged" with Pixar because Disney recognized that they sucked so badly that they needed Pixar to save them from their death spiral.

Maybe Sega and Sonic Team will come to the same realization...

On that note, someone needs to make a one frame comic with Sonic standing at Mario's door, shabby and forlorn, Mario would be at the door hugging Sonic with Luigi standing in the hallway behind him looking on, and Mario would be patting Sonic on the back, saying, "There, there. You can stay with us until you get back on your feet."  

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: Mario
A more likely reason for that is that they just suck and it takes them longer than normal devs to do basic things.

Sonic Team! The new Rare!

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Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
Actually if Nintendo bought Sonic Team it would be great, because you know why.  When Miyamoto comes to check on the progress of their games, he'd be so angry with how bad the games are he'd flip the tea table over, then he'd pick up the tea table and beat every member of Sonic Team with it and tell them to start over.

I think after about 126 beatings Sonic Team would get something right, or eventually die from head trauma.

If Nintendo ever bought Sonic Team, or any other developer for that matter, they'd probably rip them apart and completely restructure them from the ground up. Outside of when Rare was still a second party Nintendo was having serious issues with working with external development groups. Almost none of their second party agreements really came to any kind of fruition. Had they owned Rare outright they'd probably still be a worthwhile developer to this day. Nintendo would have taken them to task long before they became the mediocre shell that they are now.

I doubt we're ever going to see another second party. It's going to be either buy them outright, which Nintendo absolutely hates to do, or simply build more internal development groups. Retro was the first sign of that. As soon as they're sure that they can handle making games without having to be coddled all the way through development, most likely they'll start up another high profile group. Or maybe they'll actually focus on Brownie Brown or NST for a change. I'd love to see Brownie Brown jump into the console space. As much trouble as Intelligent Systems is having with that leap though, Brownie Brown is probably on the back burner. And where the hell has HAL been? Isn't there supposed to be a Kirby platformer coming out for some home system before the next millennium?

Point being, Nintendo doesn't need another looser development group on their hands that they'll probably have to rebuild from the ground up. They kind of have their hands full with their own internal groups as it is. If it was going to happen it would have happened before Sega merged with Sammy. As of now, the chances of Nintendo and Sega ever getting together is basically zero. Sonic probably won't even show up in SSBB... but they'll let Snake in? Something is seriously wrong with this picture.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: Luigi Dude
I think after about 126 beatings Sonic Team would get something right, or eventually die from head trauma.

Win, win.

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
Get Miyamoto in there to crack the whip and see to it that the blue devil who once stood as his own baby's arch nemesis is restored to his former glory.

It sounds impossible, but remember that Disney just "merged" with Pixar because Disney recognized that they sucked so badly that they needed Pixar to save them from their death spiral.

It is impossible, as there is no way that Sega, or Sammy now, would let the Sonic franchise go. I'm sure that they would have "Sonic Team" change their name too if they were ever sold off. Let's not forget that, sadly, Shadow sold fairly well, especially for a spin off title, so they aren't exactly in a position where they would want to get rid of him either, regardless of the quality of his recent titles.

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
On that note, someone needs to make a one frame comic with Sonic standing at Mario's door, shabby and forlorn, Mario would be at the door hugging Sonic with Luigi standing in the hallway behind him looking on, and Mario would be patting Sonic on the back, saying, "There, there. You can stay with us until you get back on your feet."

I don't even think Nintendo would even be interested, really. I mean, since becoming second party, Rare's games have historically sold better then Sega's offerings, yet Nintendo was not willing to spend the money to acquire them and then "whip em into shape"... so I highly doubt they will go looking toward Sega to acquire Sonic Team, especially since their asking price will be inflated, regardless of current talent, due to their past accomplishments.

EDIT: Damn it... after reading denjet78's post, it seems I was way too slow in composing mine...  

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: Arbok
EDIT: Damn it... after reading denjet78's post, it seems I was way too slow in composing mine...

Don't feel bad. I'm just compulsive. :p  

[Crimm]

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Originally posted by: Mario
A more likely reason for that is that they just suck and it takes them longer than normal devs to do basic things.

It takes a lot of effort to make a camera engine that redefines the term "broken."

[IceCold]

I really like how Nintendo is working with small developers, especially on the DS (Cing, iNiS, etc..)

[BlkPaladin]

Well since they are not for sale it's mute but they could do thing like they did with Square in the past. (That ended up burning them.) Send some of their developers over to train and to whip the developers into shape. (Take the difference in production quality between FFV and FFVI, 6 was made after the collaberation.) Though something like this may be a little difficult to do unless the developer was only working on games for the Wii, then again with things going the way they are it may be likely. (With companies making development houses just to make Wii games that is. EA/Ubi...)  

[Ian Sane]

"Sonic Team! The new Rare!"

I don't know about that.  At least Rare games usually have fairly tight controls and are pretty bug-free.  With Sonic Team games you never know what the controls are going to do and you'll randomly walk through walls sometimes.

The image of Miyamoto going ape-sh!t on Sonic Team is pretty funny.  I'll bet when he upends the tea table at EAD the game is still actually probably really great, but he demands more.  Imagine what he's like when shown any outright crap game.  Having the bomb guy not sell bombs to a kid in Wind Waker is a nice touch but without it the game isn't ruined or anything.  But clipping and a wacky camera that never shows you what you want and illogical controls and poor game design?  He would flip.

[Ceric]

I think you guys are hitting on a core issue and not even knowing it.

Miyamoto the Man is not forever.
I know it's hard to believe but I think its time that Nintendo needs to be seriously considering trying to groom his successor.  It will take many years to find the proper person and many more to train them in the art of Miyamotoism.  Also in the meantime figuring out what they will do when he is gone.

It might seem like a while but he is probably in a situation, if he played his cards right, where he could pretty much retire anytime he deemed appropriate.

So where is my Tea-Table flipping training camp...  Recruit Ceric would love to check in.

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: Ceric
I think you guys are hitting on a core issue and not even knowing it.

Miyamoto the Man is not forever.
I know it's hard to believe but I think its time that Nintendo needs to be seriously considering trying to groom his successor.  It will take many years to find the proper person and many more to train them in the art of Miyamotoism.  Also in the meantime figuring out what they will do when he is gone.

It might seem like a while but he is probably in a situation, if he played his cards right, where he could pretty much retire anytime he deemed appropriate.

So where is my Tea-Table flipping training camp...  Recruit Ceric would love to check in.

Believe it or not that's nothing that they haven't already been doing. I think one of the main reasons to have Miyamoto moved up the latter where he wasn't just focusing on one game any more was in part to try and get his Miyamoto-ness into contact with as many Nintendo development teams as they could possibly do. Years focusing on one group just wasn't working, especially when it was primarily EAD, and since then we've all heard the stories of his involvement from NST, Retro, and even SK. It would have been near impossible for Miyamoto to inject himself into so many other projects if he was still the end-all be-all for the next Zelda or Mario.

Zelda seems to be in great hands anyway, and has has been since MM. It looks like they might have finally gotten Metroid and Retro squared away, but I'd really hold my breath on that one until Retro has had the chance to try their hand at something new. Donky Kong seems to have been on a fun for all bender as of late, we're just still missing a new platformer is all. And as for Mario, well... there's always Galaxy. I don't know how much involvement Miyamoto had with Sunshine but to me, the fun just wasn't there. I could tell from the first few screens shots too. There was just something "not Mario" about it. The vids and screens from Galaxy though? I CAN'T WAIT!

As for their other supporting teams, well that's basically what they've always been: supporting teams. Hopefully though they'll be able to get some Miyamoto rubbed off on them and we'll see a few more break-out hits. And not just on the DS either.

In the mean time they'll probably continue farming out some franchises to other developers. I can see AV working on the next F-Zero again. Namco's in a really good place with Nintendo as well, even with the whole SC3 being exclusive to PS2 thing. As for Capcom? Aw HELL NO!  They screwed themselves over.

So Nintendo's Miyamoto-ing their internal groups and they're even reaching out to work with other external developers on a game-by-game basis. I think that's the best that they're ever going to be able to do. Second party agreements almost never work out in the end and you really can't trust 3rd parties unless you're directly financing the game... in one way or another *cough*. I doubt that we really have too much to worry about but it is true that the first 5 years after Miyamoto retires will make or break them.

...

I talk a lot, don't I.

Oh! And I haven't really seen much on SR but you've got to have hope. I mean, it is Wii exclusive after all. They might actually get it right! Well, part of it at least. If Nintendo sent over a few developers to work with them though...

[Terranigma Freak]

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Considering that Sony was the one who killed Sega, I don't see why they'd hate Nintendo over Sony. At the time the DC was suffering the most, it was the PS2 that it was trying to compete with, not any Nintendo hardware. Also, Nintendo hadn't competed with the Saturn. That, again, was Sony with their PS1.

Sega has been badly weakend during the 16 bits wars. Around the time DKC came out for the SNES, Sega was roughly 300 million in the red. My numbers could be off, but you can go check a book called "The Ultimate History of Video Games" for the full story. Despite their popularity in America, Sega wasn't doing as well as you think. If Sega weren't in such bad shape, they wouldn't be finished off by Sony so easily. They barely put up much of a fight against the PS/PS2.

[Bill Aurion]

"I don't know about that. At least Rare games usually have fairly tight controls and are pretty bug-free."

You haven't played Kameo or Perfect Dark Zero, have you Ian?

[Crimm]

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Originally posted by: Ceric
I think you guys are hitting on a core issue and not even knowing it.

Miyamoto the Man is not forever.

I don't think they're going to replace him with a single person.  I think they're more likely to find talented people and give them a franchise, make them the lord protector of that particular set of games.

I think Eiji Aonuma is the most obvious one of the people they're going to use to replace him.  He's worked on every Zelda game (excluding the Oracle series and the GBA games) since OoT.  And after one Zelda game Miyamoto gave him a great deal of control over Majora's Mask.  He's already busy on Phantom Hourglass.

Satoshi Tajiri, currently at Game Freak, was mentored by Miyamoto.  In Pokémon's Japanese release Ash is named Satoshi, and Prof. Oak is named Shigeru (a reference to Tajiri's regard for Miyamoto as a mentor).  Tajiri already executes total control over the Pokémon franchise, and could very well be transferred to other projects.  He recently was involved in Drill Dozer, so he isn't stuck doing Pokémon even right now.

Yoshiaki Koizumi has worked on a seemingly endless list of titles (from almost every franchise), dating back to the SNES era.  He has also directed Super Mario Sunshine, Donkey Kong Jungle Beat.  Now he is directing Super Mario Galaxy, at EAD Tokyo, which is under supervision of Miyamoto.

Takao Shimizu directed Star Fox 64 (the last GOOD Star Fox console game) along side Miyamoto.  He also worked on Pokémon Stadium.  He also now works under Miyamoto at EAD.

Shinichi Shimomura directed Kirby 64, and worked on pretty much every Kirby game before it.

Retro Studios is essentially in charge of the Metroid franchise, starting with Metroid Prime.  Granted, this was a franchise created by the late Gumpei Yokoi, however I'm just trying to cover all the franchises.

I would say Masahiro Sakurai was the obvious heir apparent to all HAL projects (specifically Smash Bros. which was really already his), but he left the company.  I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't grooming someone to take over the project while working on Brawl.  

[IceCold]

Most of the "upending the tea table" moments we hear about are when Miyamoto is working with SPD (Special Project Development). These are the people Nintendo have to work with other studios on Nintendo-published games, like the Metroid Primes and Battalion Wars of the world.

I think internally, they are developing talent nicely. Tokyo EAD (Jungle Beat) is my favourite studio of the lot. The Mario Sunshine team moved there, along with the director and producer. They're making Galaxy right now, directed by Yoshiaki Koizumi, who's worked on many high-profile games since the SNES.

EDIT: Crimm beat me, but I'd like to add that Shimizu is working on Galaxy as well..

[Bill Aurion]

Ahahaha, Crimm...Motoi Sakuraba is a composer...I believe you are thinking of Masahiro Sakurai...

[Crimm]

You know, when I got back I saw it.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

TALES OF SYMPHONIA - FATALIZE

[Terranigma Freak]

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You haven't played Kameo or Perfect Dark Zero, have you Ian?

I think he means when Rare was under Nintendo's wing.

You guys also forgot about Miyamoto's right hand man Takashi Tezuka. He was with Miyamoto since the first Super Mario. The first game he made his directorial debut was Super Mario 3.

[denjet78]

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Originally posted by: Terranigma Freak

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You haven't played Kameo or Perfect Dark Zero, have you Ian?

I think he means when Rare was under Nintendo's wing.

Why would anyone be making that comparison?

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You guys also forgot about Miyamoto's right hand man Takashi Tezuka. He was with Miyamoto since the first Super Mario. The first game he made his directorial debut was Super Mario 3.

Why has this man not been given god-like control over a massive franchise yet? SMB3 is still one of the greatest games that was ever made!

[Crimm]

He might not want it.  That's a whole lot of pressure.


MOST OFF-TOPIC THREAD EVER!

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: Crimm
He might not want it.  That's a whole lot of pressure.

Actually, he's a producer now, not a director anymore.

[Crimm]

Either way, given the fact he has been there since the beginning he probably isn't that much younger than Miyamoto.

[Arbok]

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Originally posted by: Crimm
Either way, given the fact he has been there since the beginning he probably isn't that much younger than Miyamoto.

Correct, only by eight years.

[SixthAngel]

Buying an outside developer that needs help just seems stupid.  When Rare was with Nintendo I don't think it is just that they had Nintendo help but also that most of the people responsible for games like Goldeneye left a long time ago.  I doubt Miyamato helped much with this game.

They shouldn't train a new Miyamoto, they will never measure up, but instead let the new blood use their own style and bring something new to the table.  Miyamoto's ideas are spread throughout Nintendo and his position now will influence many of the younger developers so he will be affecting them now and their future games a lot.  I think Nintendo put him in the position they need him in.

I wish more developers were known like Miyamoto and given attention instead of the companies.  The real talent is in the people not the name or mascot.  Movies rarely (pixar) bank on the company and usually the directors/producers/actors.

Anyway, how about Sonic.  I hear he runs pretty fast.