Topic: Nintendo Innovations 1: The hand controller.

[WesDawg]

Ya know, its funny, when companies have taken the initiative to cater fighting games to XBox or GC controllers they seem to work fine. I haven't heard too many complaints about control in SC2. SSBM worked fine. Viewtiful Joe even has a similar sort of setup. I think the fact people don't like to use them for such games has more to do with developers. They develop primarilily for the PS2 who's controller is really almost a decade old at this point. It just doesn't carry over well to newer, more modern designs unless they actually put some effort into tuning the sensitivity and such for the analogue stick. I figure Sony refusing to change such things is kinda holding the whole market back a bit. OK, maybe that's extreme, cause I really just don't like Sony, but I don't think its helping.

I think the Z-Button on the N64 was my favorite button ever on a controller. It was just plain convenient. More convenient that shoulder buttons are/were. It felt different that even the GameCube ones do. The ability to kinda wrap your finger around a button was just nice.

On the rumble dabate, I still don't think it was really an innovation by Nintendo or Sony. The ideas of rumbling joysticks in games, whether you're talking about Force Feedback (which disappeared into nothing it seems) or built-in rumble or expansion packs, it was all the same sort of ideas riding back to the days when arcade racing chairs started to shake when you got hit or rode on something bumpy. I don't know when that started, but its been awhile. I don't think Nintendo had some sort of stroke of genius to put out the rumble pack, or Sony to include it in controllers for that matter. It was a pretty common idea that they just decided to tack on as a selling point for the console/specific games. Heck, most people turn it off that I know. It's kinda annoying. Hence we all own Wavebirds.

[darknight06]

One thing about the analog controls, Atari originally designed an analog stick for the 5200 system.  

[KDR_11k]

BTW, Sony announced the Dual Shock 3 will be available as a wireless version...

[Switchblade Cross]

Imagine a shiny black controller...

Similar in size and shape to that of the stantard controller for Gamecube

There is no wire protruding from the top only a small button that says "Power" and is depressed as to discourage accidental pressing and must be held for 3 seconds to be powered on or off.

Toward the left sits metalic silver analoge stick, similar to that of the Gamecube's
Toward the bottom right is a similar, albeit smaller, controll stick, placed in a similar spot to that of the Gamecube's C-Stick

On the head of the controller lie silver analoge L and R triggers each with "digital clicks" and slightly infront of each trigger lie Z1 and Z2, each colored grey and very reminicent of the N64 shoulder buttons.

The areas of the controller without the control sticks seems oddly vacant.  It is very shiny and glassy to the touch.  

As you power up the controller, the face of the controller lights up and, in red, the Nitendo logo is displayed.  Soon after you are prompted to touch the number corresponding to the wireless channel you would like to use.  The game's title is then displayed and the controller proceeds to creat its own buttons.

This describes what I call and Anamorphic Button Layout.  This means the programmers could use the touch sensative LCD controller and creat their own face buttons to suit their game.  The are next to the left analog stick could become a decent sized D-Pad, or something completely diffrent.

THE ULTIMATE CONTROLLER!  

[Shift Key]

Nice concept, but touch screens are slow and sluggish. The lag between touching an area, and the reaction in-game is too  slow for something like games. And that's if you touch the right area.

I still think the GC button layout (minus the Z trigger) is the best design. The central A button makes navigating easy as pie, and I can't see where that layout can be improved. Can anyone?

[thepoga]

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Yeah, but what about the other point here? The other companies' select button is MUCH further away, and therefore MORE useless. The others are more concerned with convention then Innovation.

thats why they dont make u have to push the button that much. but u do have to push the Z button quickly in other games like SSBM. and urg... it really killed me a lot in fzero... frickin fzero. that game was a jerk... hehe... i love that game.  

[Jale]

Ninendo Innovations 2: the Playstation

Ok so they didn't invent and develop the Playstation, that was Sony. However they paid Sony and Phillips to develop a disk system for the SNES (or NES - can't remember) but then pulled the plug because they didn't think it would sell well. The companies continued development and marketed the two systems. The Phillips CD-i pretty much flopped but the Sony Playstation didn't. Therefore without Nintendo the playstation would not exist

Nota Benne: Dont yell at me if this is wrong, I am merely saying what I have heard.

[davidlow122]

I posted this topic in gamecube discussion, how did it get here?

[Bill Aurion]

Because it's not GC related...Changing the subject, why did you feel it was necessary to bump such an old topic just to ask that? :\

[davidlow122]

I was just browsing and found my old thread in another section!

[Oldskool]

Just wait till that foolish friend of mine who STILL believes Sony invented the analog stick sees THIS!

[Uncle Rich AiAi]

Odd.  I've missed this thread back in January.  Thanks for bumping it up davidlow122!

[GoldShadow1]

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it was Sony who came up with the idea of two analog Control Sticks

True, but it does seem however, that it was a lame catch up effort on Sony's part. "You have analogue, well we have.........DUAL analogue!!! You have Rumble, well we have.......DUAL shock!!!

That's a bit unfair.  Don't get me wrong, analog control was a huge jump on N64 (SM64 and many other games simply wouldn't have been the same without it), but dual analog is pretty innovative too.  I always thought that it would be unwieldy (it is for me, on PS anyway) but the dual analog on GameCube (even with the tiny C-stick) is great for games like TimeSplitters 2, so Sony's idea works, if not the execution.   It's not just a matter of adding a second stick, either - playing with dual-analog is a *completely* different and very refreshing experience once you get used to it.  I personally would have never thought of dual-analog - it's very unique.  To me,  before using it it sounded as alien as using two keyboards to type with, or having a third hand coming out of my thigh.

Great list, by the way.  I appreciate the work!  

[Bill Aurion]

Nintendo's N64 pad worked much, MUCH better than Sony's controller ever will in FPS games...The control in Goldeneye and Perfect Dark was intuitive, not clumsy like most FPSers are these days...

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Perfect Dark did support Dual Analog using 2 N64 controllers.  WHAT A DOOZY!

[Caillan]

So did GoldenEye, actually. It's hard to get used to, but fun to play.

Though never suited to fighting games, Nintendo's controllers have always been good. The Dual Shock controller may have had some decent original ideas, but the controller itself sucked. The PS controllers are the only controllers that have ever given me cramps (though I haven't used an X-Box contoller for any long stretch of time.)  

[davidlow122]

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Perfect Dark [and Goldeneye before that] did support Dual Analog using 2 N64 controllers. WHAT A DOOZY!
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Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that! I used the 2 controller setup in Goldeneye one player, when you got good at it it was awesome! There was also a really free feeling not having to have both hands locked together. I had to stop using it when Goldeneye took off as a party game, and I had to practice with only one controller. (small note: Most good Goldeneye players used control setups that had the stick and c-button suite as move and look or vice versa, a two directional input setup approximating a dual analogue setup. So it was very similar, even on one controller).


Looks like Nintendo were also the first to have a game that utilised dual analogue! BOOYAH!!!!

Man, Nintendo Kicks ass.

[GoldShadow1]

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Originally posted by: Caillan
The Dual Shock controller may have had some decent original ideas, but the controller itself sucked. The PS controllers are the only controllers that have ever given me cramps (though I haven't used an X-Box contoller for any long stretch of time.)

I pretty much agree with this - I didn't like the analog controls on PS (what little I tried of it, anyway) but the idea is solid.  (I do like the regular PS1 controller - sans analog - pretty well though)

[evil intentions]

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Originally posted by: Caillan
So did GoldenEye, actually. It's hard to get used to, but fun to play.

Though never suited to fighting games, Nintendo's controllers have always been good. The Dual Shock controller may have had some decent original ideas, but the controller itself sucked. The PS controllers are the only controllers that have ever given me cramps (though I haven't used an X-Box contoller for any long stretch of time.)

The GC controllers are the only ones that don't give me cramps.  Using the x-box controllers over a long period of time gives me cramps.  Especially when I play Mortal Combat: Deadly Allience.  Playing that game even for 15 minutes hurts my thumb the most.  I have to give the controller off to my cousin and stretch my fingers a bit.  Not all the games give me cramps though mainly the ones where you don't use the analog stick.  Although, using the PS controllers, no matter what game I play I get cramps.

[kirby_killer_dedede]

*sigh...* Another nicely-written article with a whole thread of nothing but BASHING.

[RABicle]

Well it was pretty weak, especially when you count things like naming buttons after letters innovations. Apparently keyboards dont count. I remember reading this ages ago and I don't know why I didn't post.

[davidlow122]

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Well it was pretty weak, especially when you count things like naming buttons after letters innovations. Apparently keyboards dont count. I remember reading this ages ago and I don't know why I didn't post.

Hmmm... I didn't call the naming of buttons 'innovations', if you check the top of the original post, you'll see that each point is listed as an 'idea'. The two main points of the article were:

1) Nintendo has invented every single main feature of all standard controllers, Minus the DC's analogue triggers and the PS2's analogue buttons.

2) Nintendo's competitors have shamelessly and repeatedly copied their good ideas without ever adding new ideas. That is, all new controller development comes from Nintendo.

Things Nintendo has invented that have been copied:

the hand controller itself,
digital pad,
option buttons,  
two and four button layouts,
shoulder buttons,  
handlebar grips,
analouge sticks,
rumble feature,  
controller slots,  
trigger buttons,  
camera controlls (c buttons then c stick),  
Real Wireless.

Things Sega has invented that have been copied:
Analogue triggers

Things Sony has invented that have been copied:

Second analogue stick (N64 had dual analogue in Goldeneye before it, and it was only available on a mid generation upgrade controller)
Click on the sticks (L3 and R3) a lame idea that creates dead space in the middle of the stick.

Things Microsoft has invented that have been copied:

Well, not really fair since it's their first, but they basically took a DC controller and ripped off the GC c-stick, then made it huge with crappy little buttons. The Xbox controller is the worst standard controller ever, including the Atari 5200 (or whatever one had the numeric keypad)