Author Topic: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread  (Read 478024 times)

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Online nickmitch

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There are enough ways to get around MS's potential asking price for the Xbox division; Nintendo has some pretty valuable stock to offer.  But their EBITDA is positive for the first time in YEARS, and I'm not sure if they want to risk a hit to their credit rating with such a sizeable bond they would also have to put up.

But Nintendo would really want to change their corporate structure to make buying the Xbox division worthwhile.  Their voice chat policy and general attitude towards online play would have to change.  Also, Iwata would need to give up a lot of power.  You'd basically need his equivalent running the Nintendo Xbox Branch (which I guess would be NOA?) and letting that person make the decisions about what games get made.
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Offline Ian Sane

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In this hypothetical Nintendo Xbox situation how do things roll in Japan?  The Xbox One has pretty much no presence there.  It seems that a big part of it is that Japanese consumers don't want to buy a non-Japanese console.  So if Nintendo bought it is it now Japanese or is it still seen as American?

And this also should be reason number one why Nintendo wouldn't do this.  The Wii U is kicking the Xbox One's ass in Japan.  So in Nintendo's mind the Xbox One is an inferior and less successful product.  MS could sell 10 billion XB1's worldwide but if it didn't outsell the Wii U in Japan Nintendo would thumb their nose at it.  The only way I see it happening is if they make a conscious effort to differentiate the market where they focus the handheld on Japan and the console on the West.

Offline Soren

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Guys, Nintendo's not buying Xbox. Unless Nintendo wants to add a third pillar to hemorrhage money from.
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Offline Ceric

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I think the time is ripe for a true Handheld.  Look at the Vita.  It's pretty darn close to a portable console.  Think about the time the Vita was released.  Screen tech.  Portable chip tech.  Touch Screen Tech.  Wireless Tech.  All of it has jumped leaps and bound.  This is the time to release a true Console in your Hands experience.  With no compromises.
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Offline Soren

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This is the time to release a true Console in your Hands experience.  With no compromises.

Except development costs.
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Offline broodwars

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I honestly wonder if a "console in your hands" can be financially successful. Sony's tried it twice with the PSP & Vita, both excellent handhelds that never quite found an audience despite having excellent libraries. The Japanese handheld companies are dropping like flies as they collectively flee TO the sinking ship that is mobile, and meanwhile the Western developers don't develop for handhelds at all. The only way it could draw 3rd party support was if it had the technical prowess to compete with the current generation consoles, if not better, but that would require an absurdly strong battery that Nintendo has proven to be not the least bit capable for making (especially with the 3DS).
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Offline Nile Boogie Returns

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These arguments are precisely why a Hybrid Console makes the most sense. You cut development cost by as much as 35-40%. You can foster both markets with ONE device that has accessibility and accessories.


Example point:


The Microsoft Surface Tablet.




10 hour battery, Touch screen, usb in for 360 controller support, HDMI out to TV.


I have played Halo on the subway coming home from work, walked in the house and plugged in the HDMI and played on the big screen and played it seamlessly.  Its very easy and the process hasn't been refined yet. Simple improvements for a dedicated gaming device and you have a true trojan horse of gaming (sorta).


Nintendo must take this route if there is any hope of a true home console with ps4 or greater level specs (I for one don't need that but it would be foolish to deny its appeal)

Offline ThePerm

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In this hypothetical Nintendo Xbox situation how do things roll in Japan?  The Xbox One has pretty much no presence there.  It seems that a big part of it is that Japanese consumers don't want to buy a non-Japanese console.  So if Nintendo bought it is it now Japanese or is it still seen as American?

And this also should be reason number one why Nintendo wouldn't do this.  The Wii U is kicking the Xbox One's ass in Japan.  So in Nintendo's mind the Xbox One is an inferior and less successful product.  MS could sell 10 billion XB1's worldwide but if it didn't outsell the Wii U in Japan Nintendo would thumb their nose at it.  The only way I see it happening is if they make a conscious effort to differentiate the market where they focus the handheld on Japan and the console on the West.

Wouldn't the Just brand xbox as Nintendo NX in Japan? And why buy the whole company? It would make more sense to create partnership than a full acquisition.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Nintendo has to be looking at costs to develop HD games, and wonder if it is worth it.  After all, they have to supply content for 2 different devices reaching 2 different markets and needs.  However, as development costs increase for both devices, the writing is on the wall, that Nintendo can't keep the same level of output as years before.  Nobody really wants to jump to the next level which some feel might have to be 4K to get a big splash from players...but Nintendo has been the most reluctant, and who can blame them honestly...they are a toy company that just happens to make video games as their toy of choice. 

So, Nintendo really needs to refresh 2 products soon, and they need to do so in such away they can begin to share resources with both systems.  There are really only a few options for this:

1) A scalable Operating System.  Making a great OS that is scalable for both systems would do wonders to help develop games cheaper for both systems.  Specially if the OS has built in functions like voice chat, video chat or whatnot...

2) Hybrid System:  This hybrid system can take many forms, but the important aspect of the system is that there is only console games are released for...the hybrid system, and you can play everything from that single game. 


Offline Enner

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Gathering from the investor Q and A, it is highly likely that Nintendo is going with a scalable operating system, application programming interface, etc. that can be applied over different but similar architecture. Iwata has compared their technology goals to how iOS and Android is applied over different hardware forms yet can have software be portable due to shared foundations. Compared to Nintendo's current systems, there is little shared between the 3DS (ARM based) and Wii U (PowerPC based).

I'm still holding on to the NX and Nintendo's next handheld console being separate things you can buy. One, because Nintendo will try to sell us two pieces of hardware rather than one. Two, because there are different fidelity and energy expectations and realities for home and handheld consoles. Adding to that, I will be surprised if there is any sort of cross-buy or discount between home and handheld software. I'd sooner expect Nintendo making it significantly cheaper to port code and assets and keeping the savings for themselves before making games cheaper for their audience.

Of course, maybe the cost of goods, R&D, and whatever is not what I think it is and it makes more sense for the NX to be one hybrid console.

Offline Adrock

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I think Nintendo is getting to the point where it's realizing that it can't support two separate platforms even if there's merit in having both a console and a handheld for different kinds of consumers. I touched upon how this could work in a thread I started. I didn't post it here as it's fairly lengthy and I didn't want to disrupt the flow of this discussion.

While it would be a completely typical and short-sighted Nintendo move to keep all those savings to itself, Nintendo has already experimented with cross-buy with Mario and Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars so I think that's the direction the company is going. This does benefit Nintendo more than anything. It gets to consolidate its resources and sell to the widest audience available. Keeping console and handheld separate stands to hurt Nintendo more than help even with shared resources so I hope it doesn't get too greedy.

I believe there's enough evidence to put a pin in the hybrid idea. I was never fond of the idea and I'm glad Nintendo seems to feel the same way. Consoles and handheld excel a different things so I'd prefer each be built to its individual strengths. Even though I prefer consoles, if Nintendo released a console capable of playing handheld games out of the box, I'd probably buy the handheld too because despite being cheap, I like new hardware.

Offline Spak-Spang

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Could Nintendo sell a scalable home console and portable.  Then take an idea from PC gaming and have scalable gaming assets and effects.  Then gamers can buy the game foe either the portable or console.  Think of it like Smash Bros this generation, then if you buy both you can get a 50% discount on the second purchase.

Offline Adrock

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That's what I'm suggesting except Nintendo sells one game that can be played on both console and handheld. This wouldn't be a scenario like Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS. It would be literally the same game that scales to the platform you play it on.

Online nickmitch

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In this hypothetical Nintendo Xbox situation how do things roll in Japan?  The Xbox One has pretty much no presence there.  It seems that a big part of it is that Japanese consumers don't want to buy a non-Japanese console.  So if Nintendo bought it is it now Japanese or is it still seen as American?

And this also should be reason number one why Nintendo wouldn't do this.  The Wii U is kicking the Xbox One's ass in Japan.  So in Nintendo's mind the Xbox One is an inferior and less successful product.  MS could sell 10 billion XB1's worldwide but if it didn't outsell the Wii U in Japan Nintendo would thumb their nose at it.  The only way I see it happening is if they make a conscious effort to differentiate the market where they focus the handheld on Japan and the console on the West.

Wouldn't the Just brand xbox as Nintendo NX in Japan? And why buy the whole company? It would make more sense to create partnership than a full acquisition.

I don't think Nintendo would want to partner on a new console.  They wouldn't want to give up that much creative control.  They would have to buy out at least 51% of the division or license out the relevant technologies.
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Offline Ian Sane

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I fear if they make things scalable it just means that all console games are compromised so that they can be done on the handheld.  It isn't just graphics.  Something like the size of an open area can be dictated by the hardware.  Sure you can have the models look nicer on the console but you can't change the layout of a level.  If you're going to make an open area it will be as big as you can do on the lowest hardware.  Unless in this situation Nintendo lets someone make something JUST for the console that makes full use of the hardware.

And if they don't then the third party issues where certain games just cannot be done still comes into play.  Maybe the NX console is capable of handling Game X but the NX handheld is not.  If Nintendo insists that the game plays on both models then we just don't get it.

You can debate whether Nintendo feels it is worth it to bother with HD but it doesn't matter.  The genie is out of the bottle and the market expects it.  Consumers don't give a **** if it's too expensive.  They see all these high budget HD games on the shelf so that's the standard.  Complaining about it is like complaining that games went from one screen to scrolling or 2D to 3D.  Someone raised the bar and set new expectations and you meet them or your product looks out-of-date and doesn't sell.  It may not seem fair and it has put some companies out of business but it's reality.

Offline TOPHATANT123

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Why does it have to be both a handheld and a console? Why not just strictly a handheld that you can also happen to play on a TV, it doesn't even have to be HD either so they can keep development costs down, it worked for vita TV atleast on a technical scale. Nintendo's portables have always been more successful than their console counterparts, the market have spoken they do not like traditional Nintendo consoles.

Offline Luigi Dude

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You can debate whether Nintendo feels it is worth it to bother with HD but it doesn't matter.  The genie is out of the bottle and the market expects it.  Consumers don't give a **** if it's too expensive.  They see all these high budget HD games on the shelf so that's the standard.  Complaining about it is like complaining that games went from one screen to scrolling or 2D to 3D.  Someone raised the bar and set new expectations and you meet them or your product looks out-of-date and doesn't sell.  It may not seem fair and it has put some companies out of business but it's reality.

And this reality continues to destroy much of the industry.  We have less games then ever before, with the remaining third parties focusing most of their efforts on the 2 or 3 yearly mega hit franchises the company has with everything else being cheap mobile games.  The reality that they created is what's going to cause them to eventually crash since the smaller variety of games is going to cause the audience to keep shrinking until you're left with something that can't sustain the high level of cost anymore.

That's the whole point, the rest of the industry is driving a bus with no brakes and when it crashes, it's going to be a disaster.  Nintendo the only one with any common sense to realize this is a dangerous and unsustainable future.
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Offline Adrock

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I fear if they make things scalable it just means that all console games are compromised so that they can be done on the handheld.  It isn't just graphics.  Something like the size of an open area can be dictated by the hardware.  Sure you can have the models look nicer on the console but you can't change the layout of a level.  If you're going to make an open area it will be as big as you can do on the lowest hardware.  Unless in this situation Nintendo lets someone make something JUST for the console that makes full use of the hardware.

And if they don't then the third party issues where certain games just cannot be done still comes into play.  Maybe the NX console is capable of handling Game X but the NX handheld is not.  If Nintendo insists that the game plays on both models then we just don't get it.
I knew this was going to come up which I touched upon in the thread I started. To elaborate:

1. Scaling has been happening on PC for ages.

2. While Nintendo earned the reputation of being stupidly overbearing in the past, that doesn't seem to be its way anymore. Stories from the development of games like Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third show a Nintendo that encouraged the developers to make the games their way. Didn't Nintendo suggest Platinum Games' Nintendo themed costumes in Bayonetta 2 better reflect the character? That said, I can't imagine Nintendo demanding a third party developer compromise its vision just so a game works on a handheld. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. That, ultimately, is up to the third party.

3. In this scenario, I think most of Nintendo's first party titles would take advantage of this scalability because the entire point of unifying the console and handheld divisions was to simplify development. It'd be an option available to other companies, not a requirement. They may take it because it reaches a wider audience. We already see something similar happening all the time. PC Master Race should win 100% of the time yet it's the PC version that is compromised to work on consoles.
Why does it have to be both a handheld and a console? Why not just strictly a handheld that you can also happen to play on a TV, it doesn't even have to be HD either so they can keep development costs down, it worked for vita TV atleast on a technical scale. Nintendo's portables have always been more successful than their console counterparts, the market have spoken they do not like traditional Nintendo consoles.
Different devices for different markets. A hybrid compromises both. A handheld can only be so powerful before being priced out of what consumers consider to be acceptable. It happened with 3DS. Not even Nintendo could sell a $250 handheld without people turning their nose up to it. There will be situations where a game is not possible on the hardware in the handheld, and would be exclusive to the console.

I'm decidedly down on Vita TV. I recently found out Uncharted: Golden Abyss is incompatible. That was the only game I was interested in.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2015, 12:51:04 PM by Adrock »

Offline Ian Sane

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You can debate whether Nintendo feels it is worth it to bother with HD but it doesn't matter.  The genie is out of the bottle and the market expects it.  Consumers don't give a **** if it's too expensive.  They see all these high budget HD games on the shelf so that's the standard.  Complaining about it is like complaining that games went from one screen to scrolling or 2D to 3D.  Someone raised the bar and set new expectations and you meet them or your product looks out-of-date and doesn't sell.  It may not seem fair and it has put some companies out of business but it's reality.

And this reality continues to destroy much of the industry.  We have less games then ever before, with the remaining third parties focusing most of their efforts on the 2 or 3 yearly mega hit franchises the company has with everything else being cheap mobile games.  The reality that they created is what's going to cause them to eventually crash since the smaller variety of games is going to cause the audience to keep shrinking until you're left with something that can't sustain the high level of cost anymore.

That's the whole point, the rest of the industry is driving a bus with no brakes and when it crashes, it's going to be a disaster.  Nintendo the only one with any common sense to realize this is a dangerous and unsustainable future.

Who dies first?  The rest of the industry or Nintendo for having a product that comes across as outdated and low tech?  I'm not saying the situation is good I'm just saying that it IS the situation.  A game like Grand Theft Auto V comes out and it costs a buttload of money to make but it's a critical and commercial smash.  Okay so that's the competition.  It doesn't matter what your game cost to make, your game is sitting on the shelf for the same price next to a game like that.

The funny thing is that I think Nintendo being a first party dev is what really makes it so they HAVE to meet these standards.  The expectation is that their console has to match up with the competition, not so much their own games.  If they were third party and made games for the PS4 that didn't go tit-for-tat with the big budget stuff would that really matter?  Not everyone is trying to match Call of Duty.  A company like NIS for example doesn't bother.  Would stuff like Mario Kart and SSB come across as low tech on the PS4 or would people care enough if they did to not buy them?  The issue is more that when you buy a Nintendo console you give up all this other stuff to fit into this specific way Nintendo wants to do things.  As a third party they can still do things largely their own way without restricting the experience at a console level.  And I think most people really like Nintendo games, they just don't want to have to buy a second console or give up virtually everything else to access them.

I don't really want Nintendo to go third party but it feels like expecting them to get their console to meet industry standards is futile.  If the option came down to going third party or dying/abandoning videogame entirely then I would rather they go third party.  Unless they somehow survive while everyone dies but is that even a longterm thing?  Are we all suddenly going to forget that these big budget games existed?  It would just be a matter of time before someone with big pockets gives that another go and raises consumer standards again.

Offline Soren

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As a third party they can still do things largely their own way without restricting the experience at a console level. 


They would also have way less money and far fewer development studios. Hope you like Mario games.


A company like NIS for example doesn't bother. 

How many games does NIS publish and develop each year? How many games does Nintendo publish and develop each year?
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Offline ThePerm

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As far as having a multiplatform os....

I woke up and turned on my wii u to watch netflix...
There was an advertisement telling me that I should get Ocarina of Time for Virtual Console, and the first thing I thought was "I wish it was the 3ds version, I'd buy that."

Also, how would sales change for a Nintendo Xbox combined strategy? Wouldn't software sales go way up?(where companies make the real money?) There are people who wouldn't buy a Nintendo, they would buy an Xbox, and if a Nintendo game they liked would happen to be on it than they would buy that. We could go back to the 2 platforms. Which would simplify it for all of us. That third party support..it would come back again. Its a weird position to be in where both Nintendo and Xbox are at. Ps4 is doing the combined sales of both platforms. Nintendo needs to upgrade its hardware already, but what if you could just absorb already released hardware? What if the main concern of Nintendo wasn't what you played it on, but how you played it?

and Why NX, does it just sound cool, or is there meaning behind it?
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Offline Ceric

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So there is rumors for the spec of the Lumia 940 XL.  Screen Resolution rumored as 1440x2550, fully DirectX 11 capable, 8 cored, 3GB Ram (Considering everything else that feels low).

The funny part is I don't really doubt those specs.  It doesn't have to have a 4k display on the Nintendo Handheld but being able to reliable drive a 60fps 1080p display would allow to push to 4k if you really wanted to on the screen.
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Offline Shaymin

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I believe the term being thrown around for the handheld screen is "more than we expect, less than what we want".

I'm thinking 960x540 for the handheld screen, which would allow console versions of the software a clean path to 1080p.
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Offline Enner

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http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/16/more-hints-that-amd-is-building-nintendo-nxs-processor/

The Nintendo NX featuring an x86-based AMD APU makes sense. Nintendo has a good relationship with the company since they have been supplying them with GPUs since the ArtX/ATI days. Also, AMD supplies APUs for the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. The experience and resources will keep costs down for AMD and Nintendo. Lastly, AMD hasn't been faring well in the market against Intel and other chip manufacturers. While making APUs for video game consoles has low margins, it is a niche that AMD is comfortably in. AMD may feel incentivized to solidify their position.

Of course, Nintendo may hang a wild turn in to nVidia or something ARM-based.

Offline Enner

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http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/40829/dragon-quest-xi-announced-for-nintendo-3ds-and-nx

There are two paths I see in this latest news:

"NX is the hybrid" - The NX version of Dragon Quest XI is an upgraded version of the Nintendo 3DS version. Which means the NX is the low-powered, portable-focused, can-stream-to-a-HDTV hybrid console that some people are guessing.

"NX is a home console or has a home console component" - The NX version of Dragon Quest XI is the PlayStation 4 version of the game. That means the NX has computational power comparable to the PlayStation 4 and supports Unreal Engine 4.

Oh, and the controller will have enough buttons, pads, and sticks to play this Dragon Quest game in either scenario.

While there is a chance of the former being true, all the currently available talk and rumor indicates to me the latter.

Still, taking the announcement in a vacuum or as a whole, the news still leaves NX as a mystery.

EDIT:
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/07/28/dragon-quest-x-and-xi-are-in-development-for-nintendo-nx/

Dragon Quest X (the MMO) will also see an NX version.
This falls in line with Mr. Iwata talking about how the NX will absorb the Wii U architecture in some fashion. That doesn't mean that the NX version of DQX will be some quick and dirty port, though.

Again, there is that 3DS version of DQX that uses cloud streaming to function. But to think that is what the NX version will be based on is absurd given the launch troubles of the 3DS version.

So, I guess that means at the very least the hybrid console will be as powerful as the Wii U? I know we live in a world where the PlayStation Vita and the latest tablets exist, but the thought of a portable Wii U impresses me a bit.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2015, 03:21:19 AM by Enner »