Author Topic: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread  (Read 479503 times)

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Offline Evan_B

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Give me Final Fantasy XV on NX and I'll reconsider Square's support.

Nintendo has shot themselves in the foot yet again with the announcement of the NX, so much so, that I believe they screwed Wii U sales further by making everyone anticipate a successor- which the NX will be, there's no doubt. I think NX has great potential to be the console that helps Nintendo rise from the ashes as long as they appreciate backwards compatability for the system.

I'm fully convinced at this point that NX will be a hybrid and it will play 3DS and Wii U games.
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Offline Adrock

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Nintendo painted itself into a corner so announcing NX in March was its best move. Given Wii U's performance, Nintendo couldn't reasonably announce its mobile partnership with DeNA without also reassuring everyone that it isn't leaving the hardware business. Sure, Nintendo was forced to throw Wii U under the bus, but that's better than throwing Wii U under the bus AND leaving its future in hardware in question. All things considered, Nintendo (surprisingly) handled that as well as it could.

Anyway, I'm surprised anyone can still be so confidently on the hybrid train despite all evidence to the contrary. On more than one occasion, Nintendo has essentially said, "No, we're not making a hybrid."

Offline Shaymin

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Give me Final Fantasy XV on NX and I'll reconsider Square's support.

You're asking for a game that's not launching until Nintendo's next NEXT console at the current pace. I'm sure they'll get around to it, though.
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Offline Evan_B

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Anyway, I'm surprised anyone can still be so confidently on the hybrid train despite all evidence to the contrary. On more than one occasion, Nintendo has essentially said, "No, we're not making a hybrid."
Can I have a source for that? Because I follow news pretty religiously and I've heard nothing of the sort.
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Offline Soren

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March 2014 investor meeting: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130qa/02.html

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In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Miyamoto at E3 2014: http://kotaku.com/miyamoto-can-imagine-nintendo-making-hybrid-console-han-1594989023

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Certainly from a development standpoint there is some challenge to it, because if you have two devices that have different specs and you're being told to design in a way that the game runs on both devices, then that can be challenging for the developer—but if you have a more unified development environment and you're able to make one game that runs on both systems instead of having to make a game for each system, that's an area of opportunity for us.

The Wii U and 3DS will each get a successor. Console and handheld, two different products but united under the same operating system.
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Offline Adrock

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Also
Iwata: Unified Console And Handheld Division Could Lead To More Platforms
Quote
In terms of our platform integration, as I explained to you a short while ago, we are not saying that we are planning to integrate our platforms into one. What we are saying is that we would like to integrate software development methods, operating systems, and built-in software and software assets for each platform so that we can use them across different machines.
And from the same investor's meeting Soren linked to:
Iwata on integrating handheld/console teams, next system will “absorb the Wii U architecture adequately”
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Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Those last two sound less like declarations that they're not doing that and more like them saying that they're not saying they're doing that right now, though, which they've done numerous times shortly before they've then done that thing.
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Offline Adrock

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Typically, Nintendo does that when it's trying to shut down a rumor which then ends up being true a couple weeks later. In this instance, Nintendo has been dropping hints that it's planning a handheld and console that play the same games for nearly three years now. And every time the subject comes up again, Nintendo gives a little more. I get what you're saying considering Nintendo's history of denying the existence of handhelds that it ends up releasing (e.g. just about every redesign). It could be misdirection. I doubt it though. I don't remember Nintendo being this forthcoming (albeit still coy) about its future platforms before. It's as if Nintendo wants to talk about them and move on from Wii U but can't justifiably do so this early.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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Nintendo tried to be secretive the last couple times they had new hardware and both times ended up with huge leaks forcing their hand early. Maybe they're trying something different to avoid that.
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Offline Ian Sane

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I get the feeling that if Nintendo releases a new handheld and a new console and they both play the same games that the handheld is going to sell really well and the console is going to bomb.  They had the problem this gen that they kept releasing 3DS games that were very similar to Wii U games so that diminished the need for a Wii U.  I prefer consoles so I would buy the console but the general public trusts Nintendo for handhelds but absolutely not for consoles.  So if the console doesn't offer much distinct from the handheld there isn't much of a selling point beyond appealing to people like me that don't like handheld gaming and only buy handhelds for their exclusives.  The hybrid concept works better because it's just one purchase and the customer uses it in the way that suits them.

Sony's handhelds tend to have virtually the same games as their consoles and what happens?  Everyone buys their console and not the handheld.  PlayStation is a strong console brand name but a weak handheld one so with very little to differentiate between the two systems the one with the stronger reputation is the successful one.

I think ultimately people will buy one handheld or one console or one of each.  Nintendo's console needs to come across as an obvious choice OVER the PS4 and XB1.  If it's just a console version of the "4DS" then people will gladly get their preferred combination of a Nintendo handheld and a Sony/MS console.  If the NX console has the same games as the handheld then someone with that combo misses out on virtually nothing.  At least right now if they go 3DS/PS4 they miss out on Wii U exclusives.

Offline MagicCow64

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Sony's handhelds tend to have virtually the same games as their consoles and what happens?  Everyone buys their console and not the handheld.  PlayStation is a strong console brand name but a weak handheld one so with very little to differentiate between the two systems the one with the stronger reputation is the successful one.


That's a good point. I also thought the PSP was wrong-headed from the get-go, and didn't know why anyone would want to play complex 3D games (that were also inferior to console counterparts by most metrics) on a small screen  while on the go. And based on the collapse of the Vita, it would seem that most of the market agrees at this point, especially when simple and accessible phone games are universally available. While people do obviously have much more confidence in Nintendo's handhelds, they essentially have the same problem, and the 3DS, while still doing pretty well against the mobile juggernaut, is nowhere near as successful as the DS.

Offline Enner

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If what killed the Wii U was 3DS games being too similar overall from content to quality, then that situation will repeat itself regardless as the power and value of handheld hardware improves.

If a repeat of the 3DS and Wii U come to the NX Handheld and NX Home, then at least Nintendo is better off in this situation by more easily being able to produce games for both systems.

While Japan is veering more towards portable means of play, North American, European, Australian, and some other territories show a preference for home consoles. In the hypothetical situation of the NX Handheld and NX Home, Nintendo is in an easier place to provide enough software for both platforms. This also avoids the potential worst-of-both-worlds pitfalls of an NX Hybrid.

Offline Adrock

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The hybrid concept works better because it's just one purchase and the customer uses it in the way that suits them.
And a customer would just buy the hardware, handheld or console, that suits them without having to deal with the compromises of a hybrid. You continually bitch about hardware power and you're championing Nintendo going with weaker hardware? And you're not even going to use it as a handheld because you admittedly don't like handheld gaming? What the what?

In a scenario in which Nintendo released a console and handheld that played the same games, I'd imagine Nintendo would adjust manufacturing accordingly, namely that far more handhelds would be made. The console underperforming certainly isn't ideal, but the entire point of this is to consolidate Nintendo's development resources while still giving third parties the most options.

Offline Evan_B

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Yeah, so none of those quotes proved a thing about a hybrid console. A hybrid console can mean something that plays games from both systems or utilizes the same tech.

And let's be honest, the console in the most people's hands right now is the 3DS. Nintendo should play to their strengths and not do this ridiculous strategy of releasing the same installments on two systems, especially after the a Wii U had three very iterative hallmark titles that looked like their 3DS versions with better graphics. As said before, Nintendo trying to cover their bases in terms of software library on both consoles has been a bad move- I never play Mario Kart 7 because it doesn't do anything different enough from MK8. I didn't even buy MK7 for the same reason. And when your biggest franchise, Mario, has games that look identical on two systems (thankfully the Wii U version isn't utter garbage like the 3DS), that's a big problem, and something that a unification or hybrid style device that unites the libraries of both consoles would be extremely beneficial.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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The hybrid concept works better because it's just one purchase and the customer uses it in the way that suits them.
And a customer would just buy the hardware, handheld or console, that suits them without having to deal with the compromises of a hybrid. You continually bitch about hardware power and you're championing Nintendo going with weaker hardware? And you're not even going to use it as a handheld because you admittedly don't like handheld gaming? What the what?

In a scenario in which Nintendo released a console and handheld that played the same games, I'd imagine Nintendo would adjust manufacturing accordingly, namely that far more handhelds would be made. The console underperforming certainly isn't ideal, but the entire point of this is to consolidate Nintendo's development resources while still giving third parties the most options.

Except we should not be looking at it from the consumer perspective but from Nintendo's business perspective.

Here is what having a hybrid system or 2 different systems that play the same games would do for Nintendo. 

1) Customers would pick which console they want, but if both are priced at a profit Nintendo doesn't care, because Nintendo gets a big user base for 3rd party and 1st party games.
2) Nintendo gets instant credibility back in the market because 3rd parties and gamers have not abandoned Nintendo's portable market.
3) Nintendo doesn't have to compromise resources on two different consoles...instead one game for two systems, means that Nintendo can release more games a year....since both systems can play both games.
4)Nintendo can be freed up to make more original games and IPs.  Just imagine Nintendo doesn't have to make a Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Animal Crossing for each different system...that Nintendo can make one version to play on all systems...that means Nintendo can release more games like Splatoon.

Yes a hybrid system or even 2 systems that run on the same OS might offer compromises for the player and for Nintendo, but it also gives both huge advantages that shouldn't be ignored.

Offline MagicCow64

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Another issue is that if the scalable games between handheld and console thing is true, it places a pretty significant cap on the types of games that will be made. I'm not super up on the specs of stuff, but I'd assume that a new handheld wouldn't be too much stronger than a Vita, which from my understanding is spec-wise a gimped PS3. So we'd be looking at games broadly targeted at WiiU-level specs, with maybe a few exclusives on the console side of the NX equation. Granted, Nintendo doesn't greatly emphasize pushing technical boundaries at this point (and frankly I've yet to see anything "next gen" that really introduces new design concepts based on processing power), but something has to break that ceiling at some point.

Offline NWR_insanolord

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It's also possible that not all games will work across both platforms, with a more poweful console SKU that is required for certain things, like how some iPad games won't work on iPhones.
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Offline Soren

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I don't think a 3DS successor will be anywhere near Wii U level specs. You want enough contrast between your handheld and your console so it doesn't end up being a Vita situation. I think you can make that distinction in games like insano said but I don't think the 4DS goes over 480p.
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Offline Adrock

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It's also possible that not all games will work across both platforms, with a more poweful console SKU that is required for certain things, like how some iPad games won't work on iPhones.
That's one of the main reasons why I think the two-platforms-that-play-the-same games concept is a better solution for both Nintendo and consumers. Nintendo's bread and butter is its first party content. Scaling games wouldn't stifle its creativity since it has been known to still make great games on any sort of hardware. It's mainly an option for third parties. Some games can be scaled, but third parties won't get locked out entirely if certain games can't be scaled down enough to work on the handheld. That brings up the question of whether the console would have a large enough user base for third parties to bother. However, consumers having access to all of Nintendo's current software makes it an easier sell to consumers. I don't know if Nintendo will ever completely shake the stigma that people who own its hardware only buy first party games, but if porting is made easy, it might be worth it to test the waters.

Offline Shaymin

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I don't think a 3DS successor will be anywhere near Wii U level specs. You want enough contrast between your handheld and your console so it doesn't end up being a Vita situation. I think you can make that distinction in games like insano said but I don't think the 4DS goes over 480p.

The NX-running next handheld actually might have a good reason to go 960x540. That's probably the upper limit.
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Offline Spak-Spang

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Well everyone keeps tell console gamers that PC is the master race...well as PCs have been doing scaling for years now...and it seems to work just fine without truly limiting the scale of the game. 

If the cards or discs or download size allotment isn't a problem then they could just download models and scales that fit the device.  Cross buy could even be a motivating factor for consumers.

Offline Ian Sane

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The hybrid concept works better because it's just one purchase and the customer uses it in the way that suits them.
And a customer would just buy the hardware, handheld or console, that suits them without having to deal with the compromises of a hybrid. You continually bitch about hardware power and you're championing Nintendo going with weaker hardware? And you're not even going to use it as a handheld because you admittedly don't like handheld gaming? What the what?

I don't necessarily want the hybrid as much as I just think that's a better strategy than two products that are effectively the same thing.  Now if the console and handheld were clearly different with different games then I think that also would be a good strategy if Nintendo was able to fix their third party support and expanded their resources so that supporting two platforms isn't too difficult for them to do.  But we know they're not interested in that.  They want to bring the two platforms together in some way.  In that scenario I think a hybrid has more sales potential.

Of course I'm also thinking of typical Nintendo goofiness that will muddle up the concept.  Best case scenario you have two platforms with scalable games and cross-buy and the specs on the console are powerful enough that it allows for easy PS4/XB1 third party ports.  Most games are on both platforms but you can have exclusives that take full advantage of the specific hardware.  Nintendo themselves makes some console exclusives where they really push the hardware.  Worst case scenario - no cross-buy and outdated console specs so the NX console is basically nothing more than a console version of the handheld that you have to rebuy the same games for.  Third party support does not improve (aside from up-ports of handheld games) and Nintendo intentionally scales back all of their games to work on the handheld.  Which scenario seems more like what Nintendo would do?  They're greedy so I can see them not offering universal cross-buy and they're cheap so I can see them cheaping out on the specs.

And I'm also just thinking about the damage they've done to their brand name in the console space.  We might sadly be at the point of no return where Nintendo could do everything perfectly but no one will notice because they've already written them off for good.  In that case a hybrid works as a Trojan horse to get a Nintendo "console" in the house of someone who was just intending on buying a Nintendo handheld.  If they're separate then it needs to be such that Nintendo is both the number one choice for handheld and console and it's going to be a lot of work to make it seem like the Nintendo console is worth getting over a PS4 and XB1 (and those consoles now have a several year head start).  Nintendo handheld games with nicer graphics isn't going to cut it.  Nintendo's exclusives have consistently been the best part of their consoles and if the exclusives are all shared with the handheld then they lose the one thing we can probably assume Nintendo will do well.  Nintendo pretty much has to do everything else right and, while I would like that, I don't see that as a realistic scenario.

Offline Evan_B

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I don't care if Nintendo handhelds share exclusives because I'm sick of the current lazy trend they've made of slight graphical updates for their 'go-to' franchises and one or two added gimmicks that differentiate a handheld version from a console version.

NSMB and NSMBWii felt different enough because of the co-op and larger, more-polished level design (and the sizable difference in graphics), but then NSMB2 and NSMBU were insulting, MK7 and MK8 were insulting, and I suffered through Nintendo getting everything WRONG with the 3D Land formula the first time around before finally being able to enjoy it on Wii U. That's not to mention the blatant similarities of Return to Dreamland and Triple Deluxe, Returns 3D and Tropical Freeze (though I do love the latter)... it doesn't even feel like Nintendo's trying with these franchises anymore and that's frustrating to me because I don't want to have to buy the inferior handheld edition to justify my purchase of the handheld only to be screwed when the updated sequel comes out.

Huh, I guess I just gave the soapbox speech of every gamer that buys a yearly release franchise, or plays video games in general. I just expected more from Nintendo, and for every step in the right direction like XCX or Zelda, where the effort is clear, they make a stupid mistake with a game like Smash Bros.
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Offline Enner

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Patents!
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=47643.150

A 2015 patent. Patents are very dry, but the interesting takes here are a console that lacks an optical disk drive and another controller with a display screen. It's a Nintendo Go, sans the portability.