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Gaming Forums => Nintendo Gaming => Topic started by: Soren on June 28, 2015, 11:46:35 AM

Title: Switchmas Eve Rumors and Speculations Thread
Post by: Soren on June 28, 2015, 11:46:35 AM
Updated to encompass all news and speculation regarding the NX.

This thread originally started out as a discussion on NX and third parties, the original post is below.

Via Fortune:
https://fortune.com/2015/06/23/shigeru-miyamoto-wii-u/ (https://fortune.com/2015/06/23/shigeru-miyamoto-wii-u/)

Quote
The problem for Nintendo is the NX’s launch is at least a year away—likely more, as the company reportedly just started talking about it with third party partners at this year’s E3. (The reception, say insiders, was positive.) That means the company has to rely on the Wii U a little while longer. And while many gamers may have chosen to focus instead on console offerings from Microsoft and Sony, Miyamoto says he regrets the system will likely never live up to its full potential.

Unfortunately there's not much else in the form of details. Is this just a pitch of what Nintendo is doing or is this the start of a collaborative process with 3rd parties? Was 3rd party response positive in the form of them being able to pitch back ideas about specs or functions, or was this just more of the same one-sided communication by Nintendo?

There needs to be more communication.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on June 28, 2015, 12:02:43 PM
Do we know for a fact that this video is fake? https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=bChBid9pHsE The concept is dumb as hell but it would fall in line with what they said about showing it off to select 3rd parties and having a positive reception. Has anyone been able to trace that Bill Trinen sound clip? If not I think the NX has already leaked right under our noses.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Evan_B on June 28, 2015, 12:15:38 PM
That video is so blatantly fake it's funny.

First of all, the features it showed off are simply not possible. Wii U games on the go? On a console that thin? Not likely. The swivel screen is also not likely either.

This topic existing after one news article about the NX with little-to-no hard facts is also pointless. There's nothing to discuss about the NX.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Triforce Hermit on June 28, 2015, 12:20:41 PM
Wasn't the third party reaction to the Wii U positive as well?
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: pokepal148 on June 28, 2015, 12:21:08 PM
BUT POINTLESS SPECULATION IS WHAT MAKES NINTENDO FANSITES GO ROUND even if most of us are just jaded, snarky, assholes
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 28, 2015, 02:50:08 PM
That video is so blatantly fake it's funny.

First of all, the features it showed off are simply not possible. Wii U games on the go? On a console that thin? Not likely. The swivel screen is also not likely either.

This topic existing after one news article about the NX with little-to-no hard facts is also pointless. There's nothing to discuss about the NX.

I agree that the video is completely fake - but Wii U games on a system that size? Totally possible, even right now. Battery life would be a question in that size of a system. But anyway, look at the Nvidia SHIELD Android TV. It's more powerful than the Wii U, and it's barely larger than a Blu-Ray case - and that's with a 2.75" x 4" HDD inside, microSD slot, 2 USB 3.0 ports, MicroUSB, power adapter port, ethernet port, and HDMI port.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Evan_B on June 28, 2015, 03:08:16 PM
That controller is a handheld. It needs a battery of its own. It looks insanely thin.

I'm not talking about a console, here.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: nickmitch on June 28, 2015, 04:31:20 PM
Wasn't the third party reaction to the Wii U positive as well?

That's exactly what I was thinking.  I think they said the same for Wii as well, but we still ended up with well, the Wii lineup.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: ThePerm on June 28, 2015, 05:37:10 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VUKcSiAPJoQ

Well hope they get unreal engine 4 to run on NX. Obviously you would want the environment to be more Mario, but this is pretty cool looking.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: BranDonk Kong on June 28, 2015, 07:15:59 PM
You know I never thought a realistic Mario game would work, but that changed my mind. For the most part he doesn't look all that out of place in the video.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Soren on June 28, 2015, 10:04:02 PM
This topic existing after one news article about the NX with little-to-no hard facts is also pointless. There's nothing to discuss about the NX.

When's the last time hard facts stopped a thread from existing? I'm pretty sure we can post blatant speculation here safe in the knowledge that we can parse it out. Also, given the state of Nintendo and 3rd parties currently, there will be plenty to discuss about the subject as development on the NX starts to bubble up.

Well hope they get unreal engine 4 to run on NX.

Unreal 4 can run on Wii U. Armature's port of Bloodstained will be the first UE4 game on Wii U and Epic always said anyone was welcome to ship an UE4 game on Wii U even if they weren't officially supporting it.

Wasn't the third party reaction to the Wii U positive as well?

Yup, I really don't want a repeat of this (https://youtu.be/lKwldXyhSzU?t=18m30s) (skip to 18:30 if the video doesn't take you there immediately). Knowing what we now know of how Nintendo treated these guys and how they still kinda wanted to buy in to what was being sold, Nintendo now has to do way more to win everyone back. I really they don't just take these "positive" receptions with them back to Kyoto and that's it. I really want to know there's a open dialogue back and forth throughout NX's development.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: nickmitch on June 28, 2015, 10:46:20 PM

Yup, I really don't want a repeat of this (https://youtu.be/lKwldXyhSzU?t=18m30s) (skip to 18:30 if the video doesn't take you there immediately).

LOL: "We couldn't me more excited to be able to bring the power of EA Sports to Nintendo's new console."

I guess the enthusiasm had nowhere to go but down.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 28, 2015, 10:59:03 PM
Nintendo will never have third parties again.  They realized the big Elephant in the room.  It is not the Console makers that are in control, it is the third parties.  They can drive the boat and force the issue.

If your console isn't thought to be worth porting the game over for, then it won't be ported...and honestly, 3rd parties realize true gamers have one or two systems...so they only truly need to support 2 consoles to reach the highest potential buyers.  The marginal increase in sales from supporting 2 systems to 3 systems is probably not worth it...unless the porting process is extremely easy and cheap. 

This is a reason why Nintendo needs to pull its resources and just be branded as a single console experience.  Portable games and console games together.  Do not split talent creating games for two separate systems but realize that releasing more games throughout the year for a single system will attract the most attention and audience. 

If Nintendo could realize the same number of 3DS and Nintendo Wii U games a year, but all that output is for a single system, then 3rd parties are less of a problem.  People would buy Nintendo consoles for the reason Nintendo truly wants them to buy Nintendo consoles to buy Nintendo games. 

Nintendo can never rely on 3rd parties again.  They are never coming back.  Period.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Evan_B on June 29, 2015, 12:29:41 AM
That's my mindset, essentially. Nintendo struggles with software droughts on their handhelds and their home consoles- it's just an unfortunate truth of splitting resources. Putting them all under the same roof would help with that issue and cause Nintendo to think of less iterative experiences.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: ThePerm on June 29, 2015, 12:54:09 AM

Well hope they get unreal engine 4 to run on NX.

Unreal 4 can run on Wii U. Armature's port of Bloodstained will be the first UE4 game on Wii U and Epic always said anyone was welcome to ship an UE4 game on Wii U even if they weren't officially supporting it.

I don't think Bloodstained would crash the Wii U though. I think most all the other lighting and shader nonsense would crash it. They could probably move it on over to wii or gamecube(i kid) if they scaled the engine down enough for 2d.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Enner on June 29, 2015, 05:19:26 AM
Quote from: https://fortune.com/2015/06/23/shigeru-miyamoto-wii-u/
“For us, the next step is to think about what is going to be that element that is really going to catch the attention of a large number of players again and get them excited,” says Takahasi. “We’re constantly thinking about this idea from the perspective of the players and the needs of the players in terms of what can we can do with our ability and our technology to capture that excitement and passion.”

I'm singling out this quote because on the surface it is all well and good. But then you start asking question such as what players do they exactly have in mind, what is their perspective of the players they have in mind, what are Nintendo's limits in its abilities and technology, etc.

This dovetails nicely with:
Yup, I really don't want a repeat of this (https://youtu.be/lKwldXyhSzU?t=18m30s) (skip to 18:30 if the video doesn't take you there immediately).

I hope I'm not too dire or pessimistic in saying that company men and women will say sweet nothings to each other and to us all day and night. Their actions and results can and are very different things. A part of me believes that the third parties in that video are genuine in their enthusiasm for the prospects of the Wii U; that the Wii U was a viable platform for third parties until it wasn't.

The NX isn't real yet, and all we have is (cheap) talk of hopes, fears, rumors, and speculations from anyone and everyone. It should be a fun couple of years as long as we keep that in mind.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: lolmonade on June 29, 2015, 08:39:41 AM
Don't believe a word that's being said/written about 3rd party support interest.  That's a vague statement, number one, so we could be talking about the same slate of 3rd party support they've had for Wii U in being interested (Platinum, Sega, Ubisoft).  Number two - it's the same thing that was said of the Wii U before it fell flat, and given how 3rd parties have continued up to this point to support Xbox 360/PS3 with downports, the decision to not support Wii U clearly wasn't due to them not being capable to.
 
You gotta go into a Nintendo platform expecting it to be your "Nintendo Machine" for the time being, let them prove you wrong if you're wanting to rely on one console for your Nintendo & 3rd party needs. 
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Evan_B on June 29, 2015, 09:14:31 AM
This is primarily why I believe the NX will be a 2016 reveal, 2017 release. They need to support the latest "Nintendo machine" as much as possible before they ditch it, which would leave the (small) Wii U fanbase bitter and unresponsive towards their next console- that is, if it is a new home console. If it's a handheld, they can be a bit more lenient, even though the New Nintendo 3DS community is hurting for exclusive games, in retrospect.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Ian Sane on June 29, 2015, 05:01:01 PM
Positive things were said by third parties prior to the Wii U launch and that makes sense.  Any third party with a game coming out naturally wants you to buy it.  EA and Ubisoft wanted the Wii U to be somewhat successful or the games they released on it wouldn't make any money.  They just didn't have any really strong investment in it.  EA in particular put in a very token effort.  They hoped it sold well enough for their games to be successful but they were cautious enough in their investment that it wouldn't bite them in the ass if the Wii U flopped.

If third parties think they can make money off a Nintendo console they'll support it.  But they don't give a **** either way.  If the NX can make them a buck, great, but they're not going to jump in with both feet and risk the possibility of failure.  Whether or not the NX succeeds is on Nintendo alone.  The only way a third party is going to take on any responsibility for the system's success is if Nintendo takes on the risk.

So Nintendo can show third parties it but that doesn't mean the third party support will improve.  These companies may just take the approach that if it isn't too much trouble they might port games if they stand to make a buck off it.  Most likely they'll probably consider supporting it if it sells well, which it of course won't if the third party support is too sparse at the beginning.

Nintendo needs to make it easy to bring a game to their system (so no underpowered specs, unfamiliar architecture or unhelpful development tools) and they probably need moneyhats.  After the Wii U I don't see anyone supporting the NX until the userbase is a good size and the userbase won't achieve that size if there are too few games.  Early on Nintendo is going to have to take on that financial risk.  Either that or somehow bust out a mega killer app that sells the console on its own.  Personally I think a proper console Pokémon RPG would be the best bet.  And of course if that somehow happens Nintendo needs hardware that is actually compatible for multiplatform development.  The Wii's large userbase did jack **** for third party support.

Though there is a big part of me that has serious doubts.  Even if Nintendo has learned from their mistakes and do everything right will the market give them a chance after a flop like the Wii U?  In particular with the third party support if I don't see it at launch I'm going to assume it won't come at all.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: ThePerm on June 29, 2015, 05:28:32 PM
Kinda weird third parties wont jump in feet first for Nintendo, but they'll do the same for Sony and Microsoft. Microsoft isn't doing nearly as well as Sony, Sony last generation wasn't doing nearly as well as Nintendo. Support is what actually makes or breaks a console, not graphics, not hardware, not even market share(the only logical thing that should matter).
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: NWR_insanolord on June 29, 2015, 05:36:04 PM
Kinda weird third parties wont jump in feet first for Nintendo, but they'll do the same for Sony and Microsoft. Microsoft isn't doing nearly as well as Sony, Sony last generation wasn't doing nearly as well as Nintendo. Support is what actually makes or breaks a console, not graphics, not hardware, not even market share(the only logical thing that should matter).

The difference is third party games sell on those platforms, and they don't on Nintendo's. Regardless of how much Nintendo improves their relationship with third parties, they need to find a way to change that if they want them to really stick around.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: ThePerm on June 29, 2015, 05:54:41 PM
maybe if they don't release the games extra late(watchdogs), or change the gameplay by removing jumping(dead rising)....or make that one exclusive so boring that it doesnt have legs to be a continued purchase(zombiu), or release a game out of sequential order when they should have made a trilogy pack(mass effect)
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Ian Sane on June 29, 2015, 06:32:40 PM
maybe if they don't release the games extra late(watchdogs), or change the gameplay by removing jumping(dead rising)....or make that one exclusive so boring that it doesnt have legs to be a continued purchase(zombiu), or release a game out of sequential order when they should have made a trilogy pack(mass effect)

I agree.  I think the idea that third party games don't sell on Nintendo consoles is flawed but nonetheless that is the stereotype and Nintendo needs to fight against it.  It's kind of like back when Nintendo was "kiddy" WE knew better but Nintendo was not able to convince others of that.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 29, 2015, 08:51:54 PM
The big problem I can't solve for the 3rd parties is the fact that eventually the number of new customers they can actually rich with a port becomes quite small.  If the Xbox One and PS4 have your game and both systems have a user base of around 2 million + users each.  Adding a third system that has 2 million users will not earn you 2 million more sales.  In fact you have to think about the demographics and see how many of those 2 million users could buy the game in another form be it Xbox One, PS4 or PC...because they might own one more more of those systems.  Then you have to think about the demographics of each particular system market.  Nintendo has a very special audience and market, they are gamers, but if they are hardcore gamers they most likely have another system.  If they are Nintendo fans only, your game may or may not appeal to them.  If it does it is worth the effort to port the game over...if it won't it isn't worth the effort. 

Porting games can be expensive and gamers do not like lazy ports, specially if the console you are porting to has unique feature they want to use.  This is why I think the power has left the hands of the console makers and are in the hands of the 3rd parties...they are only looking out for themselves, and supporting a larger number of systems does not make financial sense unless that port is quick and easy, and guaranteed profit.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Luigi Dude on June 29, 2015, 09:11:27 PM
The problem is third parties basically expect Nintendo to give jump through hoops like Microsoft and Sony do.  Microsoft and Sony lost billions last gen in part, because third parties wanted these insanely powerful consoles that both companies had to sell at a huge loss.  Hell even after many third parties either closed or have reduced in size since last gen because of these high cost they wanted in the first place, they still want more this gen.

This is why I don't expect any major third party support to ever hit a Nintendo home console until we get another industry crash that forces third parties to rethink the way they do business.  They want Nintendo to be willing to take huge losses just to show they care about them, which Nintendo isn't going to do.  The Wii U might have lost Nintendo some money but it pales in comparison to what Microsoft and Sony lost keeping third parties happy last gen.  This is why even after the Wii U, Nintendo has no real reason to really make a major change in their third party relationships when many of these third parties aren't the most profit friendly friends to have.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Soren on June 29, 2015, 10:19:05 PM
The problem is third parties basically expect Nintendo to give jump through hoops like Microsoft and Sony do. 


I think they'd settle for the decent stuff. You know, like not having to wait over 2 weeks for a game-of-telephone-type answer to their dev kit questions. Or actual documentation. Not having to almost reverse engineer the console to their games running on them.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: broodwars on June 29, 2015, 10:52:29 PM
The problem is third parties basically expect Nintendo to give jump through hoops like Microsoft and Sony do. 


I think they'd settle for the decent stuff. You know, like not having to wait over 2 weeks for a game-of-telephone-type answer to their dev kit questions. Or actual documentation. Not having to almost reverse engineer the console to their games running on them.

Or, you know, Nintendo actually taking their input on the new console before they make it, rather than just make something that suits Nintendo's needs alone & then expecting 3rd parties to just support it.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 29, 2015, 11:52:07 PM
Money hatting 3rd party support is kinda foolish in my opinion.  You get a timed exclusive or a port with extra features.  Instead, Nintendo is doing something I think is better.  Allowing 3rd parties to make Nintendo games.  This is basically money hatting a 3rd party game that WILL be a true exclusive, and keeps your teams open to make different games. 

If Nintendo could have one single system not a portable and console, and consolidate their teams and release a new game almost every month of the year...they wouldn't really need 3rd party support.  If I could get 12 great games a year...or even 10 great games from Nintendo a year...heck...even 8 great games a year, that would be enough to support the purchase of a Nintendo console. 
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Soren on June 30, 2015, 12:10:06 AM
If Nintendo could have one single system not a portable and console, and consolidate their teams and release a new game almost every month of the year...they wouldn't really need 3rd party support.  If I could get 12 great games a year...or even 10 great games from Nintendo a year...heck...even 8 great games a year, that would be enough to support the purchase of a Nintendo console.


That is totally unrealistic, first because Nintendo will still release a console and a handheld follow-up, and second because no single company can fulfill the software demands for a piece of hardware. Unless you like more games like Animal Crossing Amiibo Designer and lukewarm updated Mario Sports Game.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Spak-Spang on June 30, 2015, 02:07:03 AM

    Wii Fit U
    Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze
    Mario Kart 8
    Wii Sports Club
    Hyrule Warriors (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
    Just Dance Wii U (Japan only)
    Bayonetta 2
    Bayonetta
    Super Smash Bros. for Wii U
    Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker
    Fatal Frame: Maiden of Black Water
    NES Remix Pack

    Yoshi's New Island
    Inazuma Eleven 3: Team Ogre Attacks! (Published by Nintendo in Europe only)
    Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
    Disney Magical World (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
    Kirby: Triple Deluxe
    Mario Golf: World Tour
    Tomodachi Life
    Wagamama Fashion: Girls Mode Yokubari Sengen! Tokimeki Up! (Japan only)
    Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS
    Pokémon Art Academy
    Fantasy Life (Published by Nintendo outside of Japan)
    Pokémon Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire
    Ultimate NES Remix

These are the 2014 releases from Nintendo that were retail releases for the 3DS and Nintendo Wii.  Not all these games were developed in-house, but they were published by Nintendo.

I did add a big IF, Nintendo would make only one system...which is the whole point I was discussing.  Nintendo should look at a means to develop one system that could be both a portable and console.  I don't know what that would look like...either a hybrid system, or just two systems that are close enough together that every game can be played on both...but the point is IF Nintendo was able to do that...they would have a compelling video system with enough exclusives to warrant a purchase and attention from the industry.

Am I saying every gamers needs and every type/style/genre of game could be created.  Nope.  I am just saying if Nintendo was able to get there act together and release a console with compelling new monthly content that the industry would look at Nintendo seriously again.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Ian Sane on June 30, 2015, 01:41:23 PM
Exclusives don't matter anymore.  The Wii U has probably the best list of exclusives by a mile and that is doing jack **** in selling it.  What people want is the games they want to play being available on their console of choice.  So Nintendo can get Bayonetta 2?  Whoop dee do.  So that's one game vs. a good 20 or so titles of comparable quality that literally everyone else but Nintendo gets.  The Wii U has anti-exclusives - games that are only NOT on the Wii U.  For Sony and MS the exclusives are just to tip the scales one way or another.  Nintendo is treating this like the NES years where almost every game is exclusive, except they're stuck playing the Sega Master System role this time.

This idea that Nintendo can't afford to cater to every demand of third parties would have more weight if Nintendo came across as doing all they feasibly can.  They don't.  They don't come across like they're trying at all.  That list of things Soren mentioned?  I work in software development.  I wouldn't work with a company like that in a million years.  That is outright unacceptable support.  You can't afford to waste time in development dealing with that kind of crap.  Inefficient development time eats up salary costs which are the biggest costs a company takes on.  If you have to **** around for an extra few weeks just to deal with Nintendo's nonsense that eats significantly into your profit margin even for a port, assuming a port is even feasible since Nintendo is going with last gen hardware.  Oh and what is the selling point for your port if the Nintendo version is clearly the worst one every time?

I would be thrilled if Nintendo just made a reasonable effort and the third party support would probably significantly improve just if they did that.  Pretty much ANY level of support is better than this.  We're like one step above having literally no support at all.  And this is a business.  If Nintendo can't afford to properly cater to third parties they also cannot afford a console that doesn't sell worth a **** because it gets like five games a year because Nintendo is the only company supporting it.  The market has certain demands and if Nintendo fails to meet them they don't sell their product and make no money.  Nintendo can make all the excuses they want but they still have to make a sellable product and regardless of how feasible this or that is if they don't make something that sells they're fucked.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: lolmonade on July 01, 2015, 04:06:43 PM
Exclusives don't matter anymore.  The Wii U has probably the best list of exclusives by a mile and that is doing jack **** in selling it.  What people want is the games they want to play being available on their console of choice.  So Nintendo can get Bayonetta 2?  Whoop dee do.  So that's one game vs. a good 20 or so titles of comparable quality that literally everyone else but Nintendo gets.  The Wii U has anti-exclusives - games that are only NOT on the Wii U.  For Sony and MS the exclusives are just to tip the scales one way or another.  Nintendo is treating this like the NES years where almost every game is exclusive, except they're stuck playing the Sega Master System role this time.

This idea that Nintendo can't afford to cater to every demand of third parties would have more weight if Nintendo came across as doing all they feasibly can.  They don't.  They don't come across like they're trying at all.  That list of things Soren mentioned?  I work in software development.  I wouldn't work with a company like that in a million years.  That is outright unacceptable support.  You can't afford to waste time in development dealing with that kind of crap.  Inefficient development time eats up salary costs which are the biggest costs a company takes on.  If you have to **** around for an extra few weeks just to deal with Nintendo's nonsense that eats significantly into your profit margin even for a port, assuming a port is even feasible since Nintendo is going with last gen hardware.  Oh and what is the selling point for your port if the Nintendo version is clearly the worst one every time?

I would be thrilled if Nintendo just made a reasonable effort and the third party support would probably significantly improve just if they did that.  Pretty much ANY level of support is better than this.  We're like one step above having literally no support at all.  And this is a business.  If Nintendo can't afford to properly cater to third parties they also cannot afford a console that doesn't sell worth a **** because it gets like five games a year because Nintendo is the only company supporting it.  The market has certain demands and if Nintendo fails to meet them they don't sell their product and make no money.  Nintendo can make all the excuses they want but they still have to make a sellable product and regardless of how feasible this or that is if they don't make something that sells they're fucked.
You make some statements here that are more valid with corrections.  Please see below:
Quote
Exclusives don't aren't the only things that matter anymore.  The Wii U has probably the best list of exclusives by a mile and that is doing jack **** in selling it to anyone other than Nintendo fans.

Quote
This idea that Nintendo can't afford to cater to every demand of third parties would have more weight if Nintendo came across as doing all they feasibly can to the point of burning cash without any feasible way to get a return on investment.  They don't.  They don't come across like they're trying at all to offer partnerships to developers with no interest in sending out shoddy ports to die..

Quote
If you have to **** around for an extra few weeks just to deal with Nintendo's nonsense that eats significantly into your profit margin even for a port, assuming a port is even feasible since Nintendo is going with last gen hardware despite most 3rd party games up until recently also having ports done for PS3/Xbox 360.

I get we're all here to discuss a company/game we love, and part of that includes sometimes playing armchair CEO, but the 3rd party problem for Nintendo is one years in the making, and it's always easier to burn bridges than to build them.  Frankly, I don't see how this can be perceived as an easy or clear route to fixing it.  Nintendo can't afford to bribe help finance every 3rd party game that goes to other consoles.  Even with Wii at the height of popularity, it was clear that the market for Nintendo games are simply different than those who buy-in Sony/MSFT systems.
 
Whatever the solution is for Nintendo's 3rd party problems, it'll have to be multi-pronged, multi-year, and costly.  You don't just flip a swtich and suddenly everything is hunky dory.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: ThePerm on July 01, 2015, 06:13:21 PM
Well, i think most of us are just disappointed Nintendo hasn't gotten much better at 3rd parties over the years, but at the same time it doesn't look like third parties are making much of an effort either. Nintendo does things to improve third party support every generation short of funding third party releases. I think Nintendo should spend a couple million to make a couple billion when it comes to third parties.

Another thing that annoys me is Nintendo has been around forever, but if you go into a gamestop, or if you work for Verizon and read the scripting its always Sony and Microsoft, as far as most people go Nintendo doesn't exist or is irrelevant.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: broodwars on July 01, 2015, 06:17:51 PM
Another thing that annoys me is Nintendo has been around forever, but if you go into a gamestop, or if you work for Verizon and read the scripting its always Sony and Microsoft, as far as most people go Nintendo doesn't exist or is irrelevant.

Right now, my local GameStop's Vita section is larger than their Wii U section, in terms of New Games. It's like 5 shelves of spine-facing Wii U used games, 1 shelf of cover-facing New Games.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: lolmonade on July 01, 2015, 07:07:22 PM
Another thing that annoys me is Nintendo has been around forever, but if you go into a gamestop, or if you work for Verizon and read the scripting its always Sony and Microsoft, as far as most people go Nintendo doesn't exist or is irrelevant.

Right now, my local GameStop's Vita section is larger than their Wii U section, in terms of New Games. It's like 5 shelves of spine-facing Wii U used games, 1 shelf of cover-facing New Games.


My gamestop's Wii U is about your size, but the Vita is relegated to one of those tiny middle shelves where they usually store the funco pop bobble heads and other plastic garbage.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Evan_B on July 01, 2015, 11:33:03 PM
The thing is, people hold third party titles on Nintendo platforms to the same standard that they hold first party games, and I think that developers fear that for sales reasons and critical reception. Obviously, they're performing against a so tired company that has made many great titles, and I think that people frown on games that don't offer the same level of polish. It's why Wayforward games sell well on Nintendo devices- despite the overall quality, they out out material that's polished from many aspects and have been accepted by fans in that sense.

I know the games I wanted to play the most on Nintendo consoles were titles that seemed comparable to Nintendo titles- Bayonetta, No More Heroes, Sonic Colors, Fluidity- things that you didn't feel like you could get on other consoles. Of course, some of those games are found elsewhere an garner cult followings, but I see Nintendo platforms as "cult" platforms more than any other. Especially considering their core fanbase is pretty much a cult itself. If you're like me, you look for what is different and appealing in a console rather than what's the same. Unfortunately, that mindset isn't profitable and it's clearly not what people what judging by the opinions I've seen here and elsewhere.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on July 01, 2015, 11:54:06 PM
Do we know for a fact that this video is fake? https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=bChBid9pHsE

That's basically the system I designed a few years back. Now I have to find the thread where I posted all the schematics/drawings.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: ThePerm on July 02, 2015, 01:46:19 AM
I was thinking the other day...what if there was no edge to the screen for a controller? I'd get rid of the edge of the screen. It would just look like joystick and d pad sticking out of the screen. Buttons would have color changing leds.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on July 02, 2015, 03:06:37 AM
I was thinking the other day...what if there was no edge to the screen for a controller? I'd get rid of the edge of the screen. It would just look like joystick and d pad sticking out of the screen. Buttons would have color changing leds.
Wouldn't you just get the edges of the screen all fingerprinty and dirty from where you have to grip on?
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: ThePerm on July 02, 2015, 04:10:35 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/9HLMZ7r.jpg)

Kinda like this. IT would make the physical size of the controller smaller, the screen bigger, but you would have effectively the same setup. Its would be the same thing as wii u, but higher resolution, possibly 3d, multi touch.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Evan_B on July 02, 2015, 02:42:35 PM
Ehhhhhh... for what purpose?
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: ShyGuy on July 04, 2015, 04:36:55 AM
It would certainly look slick. Wasn't there some mention of screen with non-standard shapes in the recent Nintendo past?
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Shaymin on July 04, 2015, 08:57:49 AM
Those were round screens, but I think the implication was they would be for QoL.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: broodwars on July 04, 2015, 09:31:58 AM
So, this story's making the rounds this morning, but apparently we now finally know what happened to Project H.A.M.M.E.R. on the Wii, and it seems to have had long-reaching implications for Nintendo's software development.

Suffice it to say, the story's pretty ugly, boiling down to the Western Developers getting shut out of creative decisions, leading to a game that had no direction and accusations of racism/nationalism against the Japanese project heads at NST.


The reason I bring this video up is that I wonder if a similar situation played out between EA & Nintendo in the lead-up to Wii U's release, leading to that complete & sudden split only a year after the "Unprecedented partnership" announcement.  Also, I wonder if this attitude is something that Western devs still see from Nintendo, and that's partially why Nintendo 3rd party support is how it is. If that's the case, can we possibly hope for better relationships going forward with NX?

Yeah, there's a lot of "If"s in there, but it's definitely food for thought.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: ShyGuy on July 04, 2015, 11:24:14 AM
The cancellation of Project HAMMER still makes me sad. Looking back, it did need another angle or hook though.


Back on topic, I think somebody needs to start a NX News & Rumors thread or upgrade this one to be more encompassing.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: rlse9 on July 04, 2015, 01:23:27 PM
Just watched that video and was going to post a link here.  That really makes Nintendo look like a complete trainwreck of a company to work with.
Title: Re: NX and Third Parties
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on July 04, 2015, 01:57:58 PM

Back on topic, I think somebody needs to start a NX News & Rumors thread or upgrade this one to be more encompassing.




I agree because The NX is starting to look  more and more like a Wii U Handheld with a Chromecast Dongle. Add those Sharp Boundless screens and its looking like we have a solid hypothesis of the future.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Soren on July 04, 2015, 03:02:16 PM
Ask and ye shall receive.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ceric on July 04, 2015, 08:44:39 PM
There is a rumor going around that some of the media is taking up that the NX will be less powerful than the XBox One.  At this point even if its a handheld I would want it more powerful than the PS4.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on July 05, 2015, 01:35:37 AM
At this point even if its a handheld I would want it more powerful than the PS4.


Is that even possible with todays Technology? The heat alone would fry an egg no doubt. And with a screen, you're talking $500 bare minimum.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 05, 2015, 06:37:26 AM
Not to mention trying to get media with the capacity to hold that kind of game at that size. They'd be back to the N64 situation of the media eating up a huge cost.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on July 05, 2015, 06:32:39 PM
I'm still wondering how they are going to get a Wii U equivalency in a handheld. Maybe, just maybe there is more truth in that Nintendo XDS. Not saying that the video is correct but Nintendo seems to try and get the most out of their hardware architecture. Wii U with more RAM is what the damned thing needed from jump street.



Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 05, 2015, 09:06:47 PM
As I've said before, a portable Wii U (sans drive) would be easily doable. Having said that it would also be a terrible idea.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: broodwars on July 05, 2015, 09:32:23 PM
With how rapidly smart phones are catching up to dedicated platforms, I'm not sure merely Wii U-level capabilities will be enough. At the rate they're advancing, give them a few more years and they'll be at least at PS3-level, if not PS4.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 05, 2015, 10:05:47 PM
Even if smartphones are capable of that, nobody's going to do it there because you can't make back the budget it would take off 99 cents and microtransactions.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on July 05, 2015, 11:32:20 PM
I just had a thought: I've been wondering why Nintendo haven't put out a new Wii U color or GamePad Pro. Then I got to thinking that maybe the NX is really just the "NEW" Wii U?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Enner on July 06, 2015, 04:45:53 AM
They haven't put out a new Wii U color or a new GamePad because the sales and prospects are that low.

As for NX being the "New" Wii U, that seems too straight-forward for Nintendo, regardless of the Wii U's sales.

There was that Digitimes article that reported that the NX is coming out July 2016 along with some other dates and names of parts providers (think Foxconn). Not linking it since what the article reports sounds absurd.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: rlse9 on July 06, 2015, 11:01:09 AM
There's no way it's the New Wii U.  It just can't be.  They couldn't possibly tease something that far in advance and be so secretive about it for it to be the New Wii U.  Then again, it's Nintendo.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on July 06, 2015, 11:17:40 AM
Wii was only a " Super GameCube Plus ex Alpha" at the end of the day.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Evan_B on July 06, 2015, 01:38:09 PM
There is no way in hell the NX is an upgraded Wii U.

That would be the worst possible choice for Nintendo moving forward... Ever.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Soren on July 06, 2015, 01:45:42 PM
That would be the worst possible choice for Nintendo moving forward... Ever.


I am more convinced than ever the NX is an upgraded Wii U.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 06, 2015, 02:04:31 PM
Sadly I am at the point where I'm assuming the NX will be the exact opposite of what it needs to be.  That's pretty much where my faith in Nintendo in general is at.  "New" Wii U?  That's idiotic and would probably destroy Nintendo's console presence for good so, yes, they are totally doing that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 06, 2015, 02:47:37 PM
Like I just said in the other tread, anyone expecting Nintendo to go all out in power for their next system is going to be very disspointed.  Nintendo is not going to jump through hoops to please the remaining third parties that haven't bankrupt themselves yet because of insanely high development cost that just keep rising.  Any new Nintendo home console will have to rely entirely on Nintendo's own lineup, which they gain nothing from suddenly jumping to more powerful PS4 level tech.  After all the time and money Nintendo spent to get their Wii U engines finally running, no way they're going to suddenly just jump to PS4 level.  Even Sony's studio's who had a lot more experience with this level of tech, are having trouble with the PS4 which is why Sony's first party lineup has been incredibly weak since launch.

Just like those Gamecube engine for the Wii, Nintendo is going to get the most out of everything they just did for the Wii U to ensure their next home console can get the strongest 1st year lineup as possible.  The only way that can happen is if they're able to reuse their Wii U assests the same way the Wii was able to reuse the Gamecubes which is why the Wii had the strongest 1st year lineup in Nintendo history.

This way, Nintendo can also release their next home console at a healthy profit so even if they get Wii U levels sales, it won't cost them much.  This is once again, the real reason the Wii was as underpowered as it was because after the Gamecube, Nintendo wasn't willing to take a huge financial risk.  Yes the Wiimote itself was a risk because of how different it was, but had the Wii been a failure, it's wouldn't have bankrupt the company which a 360/PS3 level device would have had it been a failure.  Sony lost over 5 billion off the PS3 and that system eventually ended up selling over 80 million units.  Had the Wii sold less then the Gamecube with PS3 level tech, Nintendo would be a Japan only Pichinko making company right now.

Anyone who thinks Nintendo will ever be willing to take a 5 billion loss on a product let alone anywhere close to 1 billion is just delusional.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on July 06, 2015, 03:02:48 PM
The Wii U with 4GB of RAM and 25% more in both cpu and gpu would be more than capable of competing in the new "Hybrid Market" I haven't done the hard math but I'm  sure with these specs (and no 2x screen rendering) the NX would be able to do DX11 (can almost do it now), Unity 5, Unreal 4 and CryEngine (4) with no compromises.


From a pricing structure I'm also fairly sure you can pull this off in a tablet for $200 US. Add the HDMI Dongle and Dock for another $30 more and boom, another classic Nintendo Winner!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 06, 2015, 03:08:51 PM
Like I just said in the other tread, anyone expecting Nintendo to go all out in power for their next system is going to be very disspointed.  Nintendo is not going to jump through hoops to please the remaining third parties that haven't bankrupt themselves yet because of insanely high development cost that just keep rising.  Any new Nintendo home console will have to rely entirely on Nintendo's own lineup, which they gain nothing from suddenly jumping to more powerful PS4 level tech.  After all the time and money Nintendo spent to get their Wii U engines finally running, no way they're going to suddenly just jump to PS4 level.  Even Sony's studio's who had a lot more experience with this level of tech, are having trouble with the PS4 which is why Sony's first party lineup has been incredibly weak since launch.

Don't think of it as jumping through hoops for third parties but rather for consumers.  People expect third party support.  The only people that will tolerate a console with nothing but Nintendo games are the same die-hard Nintendo nuts that bought the Wii U.  And if Nintendo is only going to target that group why they hell even release the NX?  Why not just stick with the Wii U?  What does anyone gain from Nintendo doing some ticky-tacky minor update that ensures that the only people that will buy it are the existing Wii U userbase?  And what purpose does this serve for the Wii U userbase?  Isn't it just buying a new console for arbitrary reasons?

Any sort of "New" Wii U has no purpose to exist.  It will not sell to anyone that isn't already on board and will not offer anything distinct enough from the Wii U to even offer any real value to that userbase.  So they don't grow the userbase and risk pissing off the small userbase they do have by forcing them to upgrade to a new console that offers no real upgrade?  What the ****?  I don't understand the hypothetical strategy behind such a move.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: UncleBob on July 06, 2015, 06:05:39 PM
I, too, want to get overly emotional on the internet over unsubstantiated rumors printed by random people on the internet.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: broodwars on July 06, 2015, 06:33:55 PM
I don't really see the value of a "New" Wii U when so far less than 10 million people even bought the 1st Wii U, and I doubt even all of those 10 million would be willing to sign on for more of the same. Assuming that the NX is a console (and with Nintendo's handheld obsession that's certainly not guaranteed), it needs to be at bare minimum as capable as the Xbone to even be a player in the console space. Handhelds are a different story, though. They could probably get away with Vita-quality visuals on a new handheld, at least for a little while.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Adrock on July 06, 2015, 07:06:38 PM
There was that Digitimes article that reported that the NX is coming out July 2016 along with some other dates and names of parts providers (think Foxconn). Not linking it since what the article reports sounds absurd.
This doesn't gel with a recent statement from Nintendo that it does 60% of its business from October to December. Nice try, rumor mill.

Nintendo shouldn't be in a rush to replace Wii U. It can't afford to whiff on a successor. That doesn't mean Nintendo shouldn't have a sense of urgency. Rather, make sure it's ready and no sooner.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: broodwars on July 06, 2015, 07:20:21 PM
Nintendo shouldn't be in a rush to replace Wii U. It can't afford to whiff on a successor. That doesn't mean Nintendo shouldn't have a sense of urgency. Rather, make sure it's ready and no sooner.

I don't really see that Nintendo has much of a choice, given how poorly Wii U has sold, alongside a gradually slumping 3DS. If Nintendo had any real intention of supporting the Wii U anymore, I think we would have seen it at E3 or at any of the other Directs Nintendo's posted this year. Instead, we're seeing a bunch of games Nintendo announced years ago finally coming out, followed by Shovelware like Mario Tennis & Animal Crossing: Amiibo Festival. It's not an encouraging sign that the Wii U has any life left in it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Adrock on July 06, 2015, 07:29:40 PM
I don't really see that Nintendo has much of a choice, given how poorly Wii U has sold, alongside a gradually slumping 3DS.
You're right considering the choices here essentially are:

1. Release the new console when it's ready and have a chance at success.

2. Rush out a broken mess and be stuck with two consecutive duds.

That's not much of a choice if Nintendo hopes to ever be competitive again.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 06, 2015, 07:53:58 PM
I don't really see that Nintendo has much of a choice, given how poorly Wii U has sold, alongside a gradually slumping 3DS.
You're right considering the choices here essentially are:

1. Release the new console when it's ready and have a chance at success.

2. Rush out a broken mess and be stuck with two consecutive duds.

That's not much of a choice if Nintendo hopes to ever be competitive again.

They can't wait too long though.  The Wii U's poor reputation will further damage Nintendo's brand as a console maker the longer it is out.  Each year Nintendo is more and more of an afterthought and that will just make it harder to sell the NX.  I'm of the idea that the quicker the Wii U is swept under the rug the better.  Nintendo needs to be ready and not rush the NX but if they knew what they were doing they have started their Wii U exit strategy a while ago.  They'll only be rushing it if they took too long to admit the problem (so in other words they're probably rushing it).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 06, 2015, 08:28:16 PM
There would be no reason to go up to 4GB RAM with 25% more CPU and GPU power. Those will be the specs.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: ThePerm on July 06, 2015, 08:37:52 PM
The way hardware manufacturing works: Nintendo can probably make something more powerful than the ps4 at a lower price around x-mas next year. *though xmas 2017 sounds more likely in my book(i dont think Nintendo will have its act together by xmas 2016.)

Nintendo should really just make nx be three things. Powerful as ps4(or better), be able to use 4 controller screens, have multi touch screens.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ceric on July 06, 2015, 08:56:58 PM
I, too, want to get overly emotional on the internet over unsubstantiated rumors printed by random people on the internet.
This is why we can't have Nice things or UncleBob on NFR. (Open Invite)

At this point look a the  PC gaming space.  There has been machines that would ran circles around the PS4 for the Die Hard years before the PS4 came out in raw power.  The tech has been shrinking and getting better.

The Wii U is limping along.  I'm actually more concerned for the 3DS myself.  Even the New 3DS with New 3DS games.  That system is really not aging well at all.  Wii U still has more untapped power.  I'm sure of it.  The 3DS is totally tapped out.

If they are going to combine the Sku's that will be the main reason.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on July 06, 2015, 09:03:58 PM
There would be no reason to go up to 4GB RAM with 25% more CPU and GPU power. Those will be the specs.




I'm not sure I follow.


 I'm saying the NX should essentially be an Overclocked Wii U if Nintendo wants to come in at aggressive price point as recent comments suggest (also be a handheld). And those humble estimations I came with should place the NX firmly in the range of using the current farm of scalable graphics engines.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Shaymin on July 06, 2015, 09:09:21 PM
To answer the three questions in the thread title: No, ideally $170 with a full game, and ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on July 06, 2015, 09:58:17 PM
It has a 32-bit processor. Yes, 32-bit processors can use 4GB RAM (just not Windows), but it would be almost pointless. The next console needs to use modern technology, not an overclocked GameCube CPU and GPU. It needs to be built from the ground up.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Evan_B on July 06, 2015, 11:17:05 PM
I wasn't considering the hardware architecture, but yeah, I can see the NX having some semblance of the Wii U's hardware in it.

All the more exciting, since it's going to be one of those "third pillar" handhelds they claim won't interfere with the sales of their first two pillars, but will sell pretty well so they'll drop it entirely. Making a doom prediction here.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on July 07, 2015, 12:19:59 AM
It has a 32-bit processor. Yes, 32-bit processors can use 4GB RAM (just not Windows), but it would be almost pointless. The next console needs to use modern technology, not an overclocked GameCube CPU and GPU. It needs to be built from the ground up.


True, however i always thought the Wii u was closer to a G5 which is scalable to 64bit and by extension, 8gb of ram. but even that would be overkill without faster cpu/gpu. Still the point I'm trying to make is that I don't for a sec believe Nintendo is building this thing from the ground up. The approach vector seems focused on price, mobility and the fruition of the thought process that started with the Wii U platform and architecture.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Adrock on July 07, 2015, 07:54:44 AM
They can't wait too long though.  The Wii U's poor reputation will further damage Nintendo's brand as a console maker the longer it is out.  Each year Nintendo is more and more of an afterthought and that will just make it harder to sell the NX.  I'm of the idea that the quicker the Wii U is swept under the rug the better.  Nintendo needs to be ready and not rush the NX but if they knew what they were doing they have started their Wii U exit strategy a while ago.  They'll only be rushing it if they took too long to admit the problem (so in other words they're probably rushing it).
What constitutes as too long?

A July 2016 launch is about three and a half years after Wii U launched, and this would be during a time Nintendo admitted it does less business. Three and a half years isn't without precedent. Nintendo launched DS roughly three and a half years after GBA, third pillar be damned. Four years is better though. Microsoft launched 360 four years after the original Xbox so I think Nintendo can get away with that as well granted its ready to launch a successor.

Sweeping Wii U under the rug as fast as possible is the worst thing Nintendo could do. In fact, that's the opposite of what Nintendo has done so far since it's still supporting the console. It towed the line and kept releasing quality software which is the best case scenario for an underperforming product. Nintendo shouldn't alienate existing users. Without openly admitting it, Nintendo has admitted it has lost. That's fine because there's no way to reverse it. Forge ahead on a successor while trying to build momentum with the current product for a smoother transition.

I think Nintendo is launching NX in November 2016. If Nintendo insists on remaining silent until next year, a November launch makes more sense than a July launch. Nintendo can start discussing details around March, have a full reveal at E3 in June, then ride that momentum until launch with a few Nintendo Directs. That gives Nintendo almost a full year to get the message out.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: UncleBob on July 07, 2015, 10:09:06 AM
I, too, want to get overly emotional on the internet over unsubstantiated rumors printed by random people on the internet.
This is why we can't have Nice things or UncleBob on NFR. (Open Invite)

Dude, I have the face for radio and the voice for newsprint.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on July 07, 2015, 10:45:03 AM
I, too, want to get overly emotional on the internet over unsubstantiated rumors printed by random people on the internet.
This is why we can't have Nice things or UncleBob on NFR. (Open Invite)

Dude, I have the face for radio and the voice for newsprint.

But the nipple for the Internet.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: alegoicoe on July 07, 2015, 12:12:02 PM
A mid-tier Steam machine with the ability to play Nintendo games made by Nintendo would be a great idea for NX ::) ::) ::)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: MagicCow64 on July 07, 2015, 02:28:54 PM

I think Nintendo is launching NX in November 2016. If Nintendo insists on remaining silent until next year, a November launch makes more sense than a July launch. Nintendo can start discussing details around March, have a full reveal at E3 in June, then ride that momentum until launch with a few Nintendo Directs. That gives Nintendo almost a full year to get the message out.

I am more and more thinking that they're targeting November 2016, but I also think they might not have their **** together in time and have to end up delaying. A full year further might be out of the question, though, given that we've probably seen just about the last of WiiU's lineup announced already. They could get away with a dead back half of 2016 for the Wii U if the new console was rolling out in November, but they'd really be on the skids if there was over a full year of nothing leading up to a Fall 2017 launch. This also brings up questions about Zelda timing . . .
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on July 07, 2015, 03:27:38 PM
Reveal in January: No price or Name


Blowout in April: Price, Name and Launch Window


E3 2016: EVERYTHING


"Zelda Wii U March 2016"



Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Shaymin on July 07, 2015, 07:56:39 PM
Your timeline's off by a couple of months. More realistically, it's Nikkei leak in March, blowout at E3, new handheld November 2016.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 07, 2015, 10:37:09 PM
If the NX is releasing in the 2016.  That means we will not be getting a Zelda for Wii U unless it is duel released on the Wii U and NX.  For Nintendo to release in 2016, means that all development for games that were going to be released on the Wii U by Nintendo's in house development teams (First Party) need to be focused on converting those games for the NX to have a good launch line up.  That means perhaps Retro really is working on a launch NX game. 

However, I still believe 2017 will be the release year of the Nintendo NX.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Evan_B on July 07, 2015, 11:27:00 PM
I Nintendo is unwise, which I fully believe, they will show the NX for two years at E3. Their current plan of "satisfying Wii U owners" makes me think they aren't dropping it before the end of 2016. I also find it strange that people are still convinced this is gong to be a home console and not a handheld- the 3DS has pretty much maxed out its longevity and the amount of "game" people can put on it. It's time to lay that to rest. Nintendo can have a mediocre home console like Wii U continue to make money (the fact that they haven't price dropped it yet shows that they don't feel too desperate for sales) while they release a new, big handheld. Maybe it's a handheld with Wii U architecture. But I am not certain the NX is a home console.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: MagicCow64 on July 08, 2015, 12:25:02 AM
I Nintendo is unwise, which I fully believe, they will show the NX for two years at E3. Their current plan of "satisfying Wii U owners" makes me think they aren't dropping it before the end of 2016. I also find it strange that people are still convinced this is gong to be a home console and not a handheld- the 3DS has pretty much maxed out its longevity and the amount of "game" people can put on it. It's time to lay that to rest. Nintendo can have a mediocre home console like Wii U continue to make money (the fact that they haven't price dropped it yet shows that they don't feel too desperate for sales) while they release a new, big handheld. Maybe it's a handheld with Wii U architecture. But I am not certain the NX is a home console.

I would have thought it would be the new handheld, but even though the 3DS is whiffing compared to the DS, it's still doing a hell of a lot better than the WiiU. It could survive for longer on a drip of low-budget projects (hello Paper Jam) in a more profitable fashion than could the WiiU, whose low-budget projects would still be significantly more expensive than 3DS projects for a much lower userbase. I think the only wild card is if the whole NX project is fairly out of left field and doesn't fit into the current scheme of things, which some of the rumors tend toward. The rumblings (allegedly trickling down from early sharing with 3rd parties) are pointing toward a device that is not radically more powerful than a WiiU. I would agree with people here that replicating the Gamecube to Wii hardware pivot would be a real disaster for a standard home console, barring some black swan event like the Wiimote, and now that the Wiimote has happened and VR isn't on the table, it's hard to imagine what that could possibly be.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 08, 2015, 12:52:42 AM
I would have thought it would be the new handheld, but even though the 3DS is whiffing compared to the DS, it's still doing a hell of a lot better than the WiiU. It could survive for longer on a drip of low-budget projects (hello Paper Jam) in a more profitable fashion than could the WiiU, whose low-budget projects would still be significantly more expensive than 3DS projects for a much lower userbase. I think the only wild card is if the whole NX project is fairly out of left field and doesn't fit into the current scheme of things, which some of the rumors tend toward. The rumblings (allegedly trickling down from early sharing with 3rd parties) are pointing toward a device that is not radically more powerful than a WiiU. I would agree with people here that replicating the Gamecube to Wii hardware pivot would be a real disaster for a standard home console, barring some black swan event like the Wiimote, and now that the Wiimote has happened and VR isn't on the table, it's hard to imagine what that could possibly be.

The thing is the 3DS has been out longer and already hit it's ceiling and has been dropping the last few years now, especially in Japan.  The New 3DS which people were saying was going to prolong the lifespan hasn't done **** for the system outside of the launch month, which makes a successor more important then ever now.  With smartphones gaining steam and eating away much of the handheld market, getting a new handheld out first is more important then a home console since handhelds have been their most successful market for the last 20 years now.  Even when the Wii was in it's prime as an insane global mass media icon, the DS was still the better selling system. 

See this is the thing, if Nintendo released a new home console first, especially if it's PS4 level like many of you want, that would eat away at resources for the next handheld.  Suddenly, major titles that should have been available around launch might be delayed because the studio's home console project ended up taking more time and employees then expected.  If the system has a terrible post launch period like the DS and 3DS both had, Nintendo might not be able to get the big guns they need to release like they managed too on time with the previous handhelds to turn them around because the next home console project took longer then expected.

This is why I still believe the NX will be a handheld since I doubt Nintendo will risk any thing that could jeopardize making sure it's a success its first year, especially with how popular smart phones keep becoming.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on July 08, 2015, 11:18:42 AM
GBA 2001
GBA 2001

Gamecube 2001

DS 2004


Wii 2006

3DS 2011


Wii U 2012


NX 2016 :confused; ?




History tells us that this will be a handheld with possible console functionality.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 08, 2015, 12:42:09 PM
Nintendo can't stick with the Wii U for much longer so I just assumed the NX was its successor unless it is a hybrid (which is the only way barely updated specs would fly).  Perhaps Nintendo can putter along and make a profit on the Wii U but that's just going to chip away at their mindshare in the console market.  Next time they do release a console they shouldn't want people to think that it will be another Wii U.  You think every Wii U owner is satisfied with the console's problems?  They may own one and buy games for it but still not be content with it and thus may be turned off of buying Nintendo's next console for fear of the same thing.  You think the Gamecube's weak sales was entirely because of the Cube itself or was it partially that a lot of N64 owners, who bought it expecting another SNES, were turned off by the console's problems and were quick to write off the Cube for fear of another N64?

The third party support is just going to get worse.  We're almost at the point now where Nintendo is the only publisher.  So if the Wii U sticks around and gets to the point where there are literally like six games a year how do you think the existing Wii U userbase is going to feel about continuing with Nintendo next time around?  And how strong of a mindshare will Nintendo have as a console maker with non-Wii U owners who they logically will be trying to win over?  The game releases will become less frequent so there will be a lesser Nintendo presence at stores, less games getting coverage on web sites, less ads in public places.  Nintendo as a console maker will be out-of-sight and out-of-mind.  They NEED to replace the Wii U or they're just going to fade away further into irrelevance.

Best case scenario: the Wii U is seen as an anomaly and not a typical Nintendo product.  Why do you think they killed off the Virtual Boy so quick?  They didn't want the Nintendo brand to be associated with subpar products.  The longer the Wii U is on the market the more Nintendo will be associated with that kind of unsuccessful product.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: nickmitch on July 08, 2015, 01:00:22 PM
Nintendo has so little mindshare as a console maker currently, it's an uphill battle either way.

A new home console launch could be the best thing for them especially if current PS4 and XB1 owners are looking for a second console.  Both systems have strong lineups, but a lot of those releases are far off or lackluster enough that a new system with Nintendo's marquee (or at least underserved) franchises at launch could be seen as a hold over.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Evan_B on July 08, 2015, 02:01:47 PM
Blah blah blah Wii U owners hate the Wii U.

Best case scenario: the Wii U is seen as an anomaly and not a typical Nintendo product.  Why do you think they killed off the Virtual Boy so quick?  They didn't want the Nintendo brand to be associated with subpar products.  The longer the Wii U is on the market the more Nintendo will be associated with that kind of unsuccessful product.
Nintendo is going to try to make a bid for the worldwide market with their next console, and the market that is most likely going to buy is the handheld market. I the Wii U is such a **** show like you say, why would they attempt an other console so soon, with so little time to dwell on what a console actually needs?

Then again, you're commenting on modern day Nintendo, which makes no fucking sense anyway, but despite that, you're presenting a wildly ignorant mindset, even for Nintendo.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 08, 2015, 02:19:52 PM
The third party support is just going to get worse.  We're almost at the point now where Nintendo is the only publisher.  So if the Wii U sticks around and gets to the point where there are literally like six games a year how do you think the existing Wii U userbase is going to feel about continuing with Nintendo next time around?  And how strong of a mindshare will Nintendo have as a console maker with non-Wii U owners who they logically will be trying to win over?  The game releases will become less frequent so there will be a lesser Nintendo presence at stores, less games getting coverage on web sites, less ads in public places.  Nintendo as a console maker will be out-of-sight and out-of-mind.  They NEED to replace the Wii U or they're just going to fade away further into irrelevance.

Best case scenario: the Wii U is seen as an anomaly and not a typical Nintendo product.  Why do you think they killed off the Virtual Boy so quick?  They didn't want the Nintendo brand to be associated with subpar products.  The longer the Wii U is on the market the more Nintendo will be associated with that kind of unsuccessful product.

You make it sound like the rest of the industry is doing much better when the reality is far from it.  We have less retail third party games then ever before because of how high development cost have become.  Most studio's are just one game under-performing from being shut down, and under-performing means only selling 3 million copies because you needed to sell 5 million just to break even.  For fucks sake, before last gen, most major videogame series would be considered a huge success at 3 million, and many long running series got dozens of installments with sales that never even reached half of that.

Plus there's a good chance Microsoft will sell the Xbox division after this gen considering the One has been a complete disaster for them that's basically lost all money they made off the 360 and reduced their market shares back to original Xbox levels.  Yes Microsoft has the money to take losses, but considering shareholders in that company haven't been happy with all the money and resources they've spent on that division, you think they're going to be happy selling less then half of what the 360 after all the money they spent?

Yeah Sony is the only one doing good in the console market right now but the rest of the company is still in terrible shape.  What happens if Kaz gets fired because he's unable to turn about the rest of the company and the new President doesn't feel the same way about the games division that Kaz did and decides too makes some changes that don't go over very well.

Point is, Nintendo doesn't need to really rush a new home console out the door since the danger of being irrelevant doesn't mean anything when the rest of the industry is in real danger of collapsing.  Nintendo's long term strategy is about just surviving, which they've done for over 100 years now and right now they're the only major company in the videogame industry that has the best chance of still being a part of that industry 10 years from now.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 08, 2015, 02:49:22 PM
I think the idea that the 3DS is in need of replacing comes from a Nintendo mentality that selling hardware is where the money is.  So what if the 3DS isn't selling systems like it used to?  Does it not have a decent sized userbase and are they not buying games?  What are the games sales for the 3DS?  If they're healthy then what's the problem?  Also the 3DS's competition is the Vita.  Where is a 3DS owner going to jump ship to?  The Vita is finished and if you own a 3DS you certainly aren't going to think that phones are a valid alternative.  You wouldn't have bought a 3DS if you felt phone games were good enough.  Odds are you already have a smart phone anyway.

But the Wii U faces stiff competition and has no chance to get out of last place.  To me that's a problem.  The Wii U is a problem so you fix it.  The 3DS isn't really a problem so it takes a back seat.  There is always the threat of Wii U owners switching consoles as the generation goes on.

I also think the handheld market is the much more vulnerable one.  For longterm success in the videogame hardware field I feel consoles are the market with more security.  Casual gamers are gone because there are enough consumer electronics now that people own anyway that are capable of playing games so only the enthusiast will buy a dedicated videogame system.  Handhelds were always more of a casual experience - you put up with a shrunken down experience to experience gaming on the go.  Much of the appeal was to have a fun distraction on the go.  Phones now provide that fun distraction.  That leaves the more dedicated gamer as the remaining target audience but dedicated gamers are more likely to go for the higher end experience which is the console.  So that's the safer longterm market.  I get why Nintendo would prioritize the handheld market because that's what they've had more success in but it's much more vulnerable.

Now the hybrid idea targets both markets so I'm pretty cool with that idea but for Nintendo to replace the 3DS while letting the Wii U continue to putter around makes no sense to me at all.  Besides the writing is on the wall for the NX to be a Wii U successor.  A Nintendo exec said that at this point it makes more sense to make a new Metroid Prime on the NX instead of the Wii U, Zelda mysteriously disappeared from E3 and the Wii U showing at E3 showed nothing beyond the present year (Nintendo's usual policy according to Reggie, despite them doing the exact opposite the year before).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: ThePerm on July 08, 2015, 03:40:28 PM
well Whenever this Nintendo X box comes out I hope it has Halo. :D

What if Nintendo had already bought percentages of the Xbox division over time, and wont finalize the transaction till e3 2016? There have been rumors for a while, The chairman of microsoft has said on multiple occasions publicly that he wants to sell the division, Nintendo needs a stronger American division, why hasn't microsoft publicly announced they have sold it to some other company that wants it? Isn't it conveniently located(if you recall noa was originally across the street from MS campus?

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/xbox-boss-thinks-banjo-as-a-super-smash-bros-dlc-c/1100-6426396/

http://attackofthefanboy.com/news/microsoft-will-spin-off-sell-xbox-division-2015-says-analyst/

http://www.cheatsheet.com/technology/will-microsoft-sell-its-xbox-division.html/?a=viewall

Also, Rare.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 08, 2015, 03:54:22 PM
I'd imagine the amount of money Microsoft would want for Xbox would be way too much then Nintendo would be willing to pay.  Of course I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to make a play for certain things related to Rare during said sale.  We know there's copyright issue's involving the Donkey Kong County games (that's why they got pulled suddenly off the Wii's Virtual Consoles after a few years) and DK64 so I'd expect Nintendo to ensure they own all they need so they can re-release everything Donkey Kong Country related whenever they want again.

Plus Iwata has said he wishes Nintendo would have tried to keep the Banjo/Kazooie series so I wouldn't be surprised if Iwata tried to see if he could get that as well.  Since Rare games were a major part of the N64's library, getting the rights to as many Rare games as possible would make sense for Nintendo since it was vastly improve the N64's Virtual Console lineup for all future Nintendo systems.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: ThePerm on July 08, 2015, 04:05:17 PM
What if Microsoft still wants to have some chunk in the company? What if they don't sell it enterely, what if they want to keep 50% ? Microsoft could see it as a way to make money off Nintendo that would work for both the companies in a mutually beneficial way. The xbox division is not a separate entitiy at the moment, so technically it doesn't have a real valuation. Once xbox money is made it goes to the rest of microsoft. As low ball as it sounds 6 billion for half of the company sounds like a good valuation.

Then all Nintendo has to do is make the wii u controller compatable with the xbox, and move its games to xbox one, its like if they went third party without going third party. It would also make Sony look really bad, which im sure Nintendo would love.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 08, 2015, 04:56:47 PM
I seriously doubt Nintendo would by the Xbox division anyway.  It doesn't seem like their style.  But wouldn't that be kind of futile?  Nintendo's problems stem from their own questionable decisions.  Any value in the Xbox brand comes from the people involved.  Take out the MS people that have some idea of what they're doing (thought they're not that great; mandatory Kinect blew up in their face) and replace them with Nintendo and I guess you get a more current console for the rest of the generation but it's all still being run by Nintendo.  Something like their sudden hatred of voicechat doesn't go away.  The Xbox third party policies would probably get all Nintendo-ized and start to turn third parties off.

The best thing it offers is for Nintendo to jump in partway through a generation with a product that is sort of successful and is at least a lot more contemporary than the Wii U.  It has a pre-existing userbase and lineup of games and online infrastructure.  There is no risk in a new console flopping since there is already a foothold.  That brings Nintendo more or less up to speed which would be good.  But then how does Nintendo not fudge the follow-up?  They need to learn what they're doing wrong.

Now if you had some company that had the best traits of both Nintendo and Microsoft's games division, you would get a pretty damn good company.  But that isn't what Nintendo gets unless they're so smart enough as to take everyone in and be willing to keep MS people over Nintendo people if the MS person is more valuable.  We all know they would probably lay most of the MS people off and institute a Nintendo way of doing things at all levels.

It's a good way to make up ground overnight but only if you know what you did wrong in the first place and what to do in the future.  Without that it's a lot like MS buying Rare where they quickly realized that Nintendo's involvement was a big part of the Rare magic and without it they just had a company name and some IP.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: nickmitch on July 08, 2015, 07:26:18 PM
There are enough ways to get around MS's potential asking price for the Xbox division; Nintendo has some pretty valuable stock to offer.  But their EBITDA is positive for the first time in YEARS, and I'm not sure if they want to risk a hit to their credit rating with such a sizeable bond they would also have to put up.

But Nintendo would really want to change their corporate structure to make buying the Xbox division worthwhile.  Their voice chat policy and general attitude towards online play would have to change.  Also, Iwata would need to give up a lot of power.  You'd basically need his equivalent running the Nintendo Xbox Branch (which I guess would be NOA?) and letting that person make the decisions about what games get made.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 08, 2015, 07:37:47 PM
In this hypothetical Nintendo Xbox situation how do things roll in Japan?  The Xbox One has pretty much no presence there.  It seems that a big part of it is that Japanese consumers don't want to buy a non-Japanese console.  So if Nintendo bought it is it now Japanese or is it still seen as American?

And this also should be reason number one why Nintendo wouldn't do this.  The Wii U is kicking the Xbox One's ass in Japan.  So in Nintendo's mind the Xbox One is an inferior and less successful product.  MS could sell 10 billion XB1's worldwide but if it didn't outsell the Wii U in Japan Nintendo would thumb their nose at it.  The only way I see it happening is if they make a conscious effort to differentiate the market where they focus the handheld on Japan and the console on the West.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Soren on July 08, 2015, 08:27:14 PM
Guys, Nintendo's not buying Xbox. Unless Nintendo wants to add a third pillar to hemorrhage money from.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ceric on July 08, 2015, 09:30:03 PM
I think the time is ripe for a true Handheld.  Look at the Vita.  It's pretty darn close to a portable console.  Think about the time the Vita was released.  Screen tech.  Portable chip tech.  Touch Screen Tech.  Wireless Tech.  All of it has jumped leaps and bound.  This is the time to release a true Console in your Hands experience.  With no compromises.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Soren on July 08, 2015, 09:37:06 PM
This is the time to release a true Console in your Hands experience.  With no compromises.

Except development costs.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: broodwars on July 08, 2015, 09:46:51 PM
I honestly wonder if a "console in your hands" can be financially successful. Sony's tried it twice with the PSP & Vita, both excellent handhelds that never quite found an audience despite having excellent libraries. The Japanese handheld companies are dropping like flies as they collectively flee TO the sinking ship that is mobile, and meanwhile the Western developers don't develop for handhelds at all. The only way it could draw 3rd party support was if it had the technical prowess to compete with the current generation consoles, if not better, but that would require an absurdly strong battery that Nintendo has proven to be not the least bit capable for making (especially with the 3DS).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on July 08, 2015, 10:21:12 PM
These arguments are precisely why a Hybrid Console makes the most sense. You cut development cost by as much as 35-40%. You can foster both markets with ONE device that has accessibility and accessories.


Example point:


The Microsoft Surface Tablet.




10 hour battery, Touch screen, usb in for 360 controller support, HDMI out to TV.


I have played Halo on the subway coming home from work, walked in the house and plugged in the HDMI and played on the big screen and played it seamlessly.  Its very easy and the process hasn't been refined yet. Simple improvements for a dedicated gaming device and you have a true trojan horse of gaming (sorta).


Nintendo must take this route if there is any hope of a true home console with ps4 or greater level specs (I for one don't need that but it would be foolish to deny its appeal)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: ThePerm on July 09, 2015, 12:02:59 AM
In this hypothetical Nintendo Xbox situation how do things roll in Japan?  The Xbox One has pretty much no presence there.  It seems that a big part of it is that Japanese consumers don't want to buy a non-Japanese console.  So if Nintendo bought it is it now Japanese or is it still seen as American?

And this also should be reason number one why Nintendo wouldn't do this.  The Wii U is kicking the Xbox One's ass in Japan.  So in Nintendo's mind the Xbox One is an inferior and less successful product.  MS could sell 10 billion XB1's worldwide but if it didn't outsell the Wii U in Japan Nintendo would thumb their nose at it.  The only way I see it happening is if they make a conscious effort to differentiate the market where they focus the handheld on Japan and the console on the West.

Wouldn't the Just brand xbox as Nintendo NX in Japan? And why buy the whole company? It would make more sense to create partnership than a full acquisition.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 09, 2015, 03:23:48 AM
Nintendo has to be looking at costs to develop HD games, and wonder if it is worth it.  After all, they have to supply content for 2 different devices reaching 2 different markets and needs.  However, as development costs increase for both devices, the writing is on the wall, that Nintendo can't keep the same level of output as years before.  Nobody really wants to jump to the next level which some feel might have to be 4K to get a big splash from players...but Nintendo has been the most reluctant, and who can blame them honestly...they are a toy company that just happens to make video games as their toy of choice. 

So, Nintendo really needs to refresh 2 products soon, and they need to do so in such away they can begin to share resources with both systems.  There are really only a few options for this:

1) A scalable Operating System.  Making a great OS that is scalable for both systems would do wonders to help develop games cheaper for both systems.  Specially if the OS has built in functions like voice chat, video chat or whatnot...

2) Hybrid System:  This hybrid system can take many forms, but the important aspect of the system is that there is only console games are released for...the hybrid system, and you can play everything from that single game. 

Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Enner on July 09, 2015, 04:55:35 AM
Gathering from the investor Q and A, it is highly likely that Nintendo is going with a scalable operating system, application programming interface, etc. that can be applied over different but similar architecture. Iwata has compared their technology goals to how iOS and Android is applied over different hardware forms yet can have software be portable due to shared foundations. Compared to Nintendo's current systems, there is little shared between the 3DS (ARM based) and Wii U (PowerPC based).

I'm still holding on to the NX and Nintendo's next handheld console being separate things you can buy. One, because Nintendo will try to sell us two pieces of hardware rather than one. Two, because there are different fidelity and energy expectations and realities for home and handheld consoles. Adding to that, I will be surprised if there is any sort of cross-buy or discount between home and handheld software. I'd sooner expect Nintendo making it significantly cheaper to port code and assets and keeping the savings for themselves before making games cheaper for their audience.

Of course, maybe the cost of goods, R&D, and whatever is not what I think it is and it makes more sense for the NX to be one hybrid console.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Adrock on July 09, 2015, 05:24:49 AM
I think Nintendo is getting to the point where it's realizing that it can't support two separate platforms even if there's merit in having both a console and a handheld for different kinds of consumers. I touched upon how this could work in a thread I started. I didn't post it here as it's fairly lengthy and I didn't want to disrupt the flow of this discussion.

While it would be a completely typical and short-sighted Nintendo move to keep all those savings to itself, Nintendo has already experimented with cross-buy with Mario and Donkey Kong: Tipping Stars so I think that's the direction the company is going. This does benefit Nintendo more than anything. It gets to consolidate its resources and sell to the widest audience available. Keeping console and handheld separate stands to hurt Nintendo more than help even with shared resources so I hope it doesn't get too greedy.

I believe there's enough evidence to put a pin in the hybrid idea. I was never fond of the idea and I'm glad Nintendo seems to feel the same way. Consoles and handheld excel a different things so I'd prefer each be built to its individual strengths. Even though I prefer consoles, if Nintendo released a console capable of playing handheld games out of the box, I'd probably buy the handheld too because despite being cheap, I like new hardware.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on July 09, 2015, 06:17:22 AM
Could Nintendo sell a scalable home console and portable.  Then take an idea from PC gaming and have scalable gaming assets and effects.  Then gamers can buy the game foe either the portable or console.  Think of it like Smash Bros this generation, then if you buy both you can get a 50% discount on the second purchase.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Adrock on July 09, 2015, 06:47:56 AM
That's what I'm suggesting except Nintendo sells one game that can be played on both console and handheld. This wouldn't be a scenario like Super Smash Bros. for Wii U and 3DS. It would be literally the same game that scales to the platform you play it on.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: nickmitch on July 09, 2015, 09:08:05 AM
In this hypothetical Nintendo Xbox situation how do things roll in Japan?  The Xbox One has pretty much no presence there.  It seems that a big part of it is that Japanese consumers don't want to buy a non-Japanese console.  So if Nintendo bought it is it now Japanese or is it still seen as American?

And this also should be reason number one why Nintendo wouldn't do this.  The Wii U is kicking the Xbox One's ass in Japan.  So in Nintendo's mind the Xbox One is an inferior and less successful product.  MS could sell 10 billion XB1's worldwide but if it didn't outsell the Wii U in Japan Nintendo would thumb their nose at it.  The only way I see it happening is if they make a conscious effort to differentiate the market where they focus the handheld on Japan and the console on the West.

Wouldn't the Just brand xbox as Nintendo NX in Japan? And why buy the whole company? It would make more sense to create partnership than a full acquisition.

I don't think Nintendo would want to partner on a new console.  They wouldn't want to give up that much creative control.  They would have to buy out at least 51% of the division or license out the relevant technologies.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 09, 2015, 01:00:16 PM
I fear if they make things scalable it just means that all console games are compromised so that they can be done on the handheld.  It isn't just graphics.  Something like the size of an open area can be dictated by the hardware.  Sure you can have the models look nicer on the console but you can't change the layout of a level.  If you're going to make an open area it will be as big as you can do on the lowest hardware.  Unless in this situation Nintendo lets someone make something JUST for the console that makes full use of the hardware.

And if they don't then the third party issues where certain games just cannot be done still comes into play.  Maybe the NX console is capable of handling Game X but the NX handheld is not.  If Nintendo insists that the game plays on both models then we just don't get it.

You can debate whether Nintendo feels it is worth it to bother with HD but it doesn't matter.  The genie is out of the bottle and the market expects it.  Consumers don't give a **** if it's too expensive.  They see all these high budget HD games on the shelf so that's the standard.  Complaining about it is like complaining that games went from one screen to scrolling or 2D to 3D.  Someone raised the bar and set new expectations and you meet them or your product looks out-of-date and doesn't sell.  It may not seem fair and it has put some companies out of business but it's reality.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on July 09, 2015, 01:25:06 PM
Why does it have to be both a handheld and a console? Why not just strictly a handheld that you can also happen to play on a TV, it doesn't even have to be HD either so they can keep development costs down, it worked for vita TV atleast on a technical scale. Nintendo's portables have always been more successful than their console counterparts, the market have spoken they do not like traditional Nintendo consoles.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Luigi Dude on July 09, 2015, 01:46:28 PM
You can debate whether Nintendo feels it is worth it to bother with HD but it doesn't matter.  The genie is out of the bottle and the market expects it.  Consumers don't give a **** if it's too expensive.  They see all these high budget HD games on the shelf so that's the standard.  Complaining about it is like complaining that games went from one screen to scrolling or 2D to 3D.  Someone raised the bar and set new expectations and you meet them or your product looks out-of-date and doesn't sell.  It may not seem fair and it has put some companies out of business but it's reality.

And this reality continues to destroy much of the industry.  We have less games then ever before, with the remaining third parties focusing most of their efforts on the 2 or 3 yearly mega hit franchises the company has with everything else being cheap mobile games.  The reality that they created is what's going to cause them to eventually crash since the smaller variety of games is going to cause the audience to keep shrinking until you're left with something that can't sustain the high level of cost anymore.

That's the whole point, the rest of the industry is driving a bus with no brakes and when it crashes, it's going to be a disaster.  Nintendo the only one with any common sense to realize this is a dangerous and unsustainable future.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Adrock on July 09, 2015, 01:51:06 PM
I fear if they make things scalable it just means that all console games are compromised so that they can be done on the handheld.  It isn't just graphics.  Something like the size of an open area can be dictated by the hardware.  Sure you can have the models look nicer on the console but you can't change the layout of a level.  If you're going to make an open area it will be as big as you can do on the lowest hardware.  Unless in this situation Nintendo lets someone make something JUST for the console that makes full use of the hardware.

And if they don't then the third party issues where certain games just cannot be done still comes into play.  Maybe the NX console is capable of handling Game X but the NX handheld is not.  If Nintendo insists that the game plays on both models then we just don't get it.
I knew this was going to come up which I touched upon in the thread I started. To elaborate:

1. Scaling has been happening on PC for ages.

2. While Nintendo earned the reputation of being stupidly overbearing in the past, that doesn't seem to be its way anymore. Stories from the development of games like Bayonetta 2 and Devil's Third show a Nintendo that encouraged the developers to make the games their way. Didn't Nintendo suggest Platinum Games' Nintendo themed costumes in Bayonetta 2 better reflect the character? That said, I can't imagine Nintendo demanding a third party developer compromise its vision just so a game works on a handheld. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. That, ultimately, is up to the third party.

3. In this scenario, I think most of Nintendo's first party titles would take advantage of this scalability because the entire point of unifying the console and handheld divisions was to simplify development. It'd be an option available to other companies, not a requirement. They may take it because it reaches a wider audience. We already see something similar happening all the time. PC Master Race should win 100% of the time yet it's the PC version that is compromised to work on consoles.
Why does it have to be both a handheld and a console? Why not just strictly a handheld that you can also happen to play on a TV, it doesn't even have to be HD either so they can keep development costs down, it worked for vita TV atleast on a technical scale. Nintendo's portables have always been more successful than their console counterparts, the market have spoken they do not like traditional Nintendo consoles.
Different devices for different markets. A hybrid compromises both. A handheld can only be so powerful before being priced out of what consumers consider to be acceptable. It happened with 3DS. Not even Nintendo could sell a $250 handheld without people turning their nose up to it. There will be situations where a game is not possible on the hardware in the handheld, and would be exclusive to the console.

I'm decidedly down on Vita TV. I recently found out Uncharted: Golden Abyss is incompatible. That was the only game I was interested in.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 09, 2015, 03:11:24 PM
You can debate whether Nintendo feels it is worth it to bother with HD but it doesn't matter.  The genie is out of the bottle and the market expects it.  Consumers don't give a **** if it's too expensive.  They see all these high budget HD games on the shelf so that's the standard.  Complaining about it is like complaining that games went from one screen to scrolling or 2D to 3D.  Someone raised the bar and set new expectations and you meet them or your product looks out-of-date and doesn't sell.  It may not seem fair and it has put some companies out of business but it's reality.

And this reality continues to destroy much of the industry.  We have less games then ever before, with the remaining third parties focusing most of their efforts on the 2 or 3 yearly mega hit franchises the company has with everything else being cheap mobile games.  The reality that they created is what's going to cause them to eventually crash since the smaller variety of games is going to cause the audience to keep shrinking until you're left with something that can't sustain the high level of cost anymore.

That's the whole point, the rest of the industry is driving a bus with no brakes and when it crashes, it's going to be a disaster.  Nintendo the only one with any common sense to realize this is a dangerous and unsustainable future.

Who dies first?  The rest of the industry or Nintendo for having a product that comes across as outdated and low tech?  I'm not saying the situation is good I'm just saying that it IS the situation.  A game like Grand Theft Auto V comes out and it costs a buttload of money to make but it's a critical and commercial smash.  Okay so that's the competition.  It doesn't matter what your game cost to make, your game is sitting on the shelf for the same price next to a game like that.

The funny thing is that I think Nintendo being a first party dev is what really makes it so they HAVE to meet these standards.  The expectation is that their console has to match up with the competition, not so much their own games.  If they were third party and made games for the PS4 that didn't go tit-for-tat with the big budget stuff would that really matter?  Not everyone is trying to match Call of Duty.  A company like NIS for example doesn't bother.  Would stuff like Mario Kart and SSB come across as low tech on the PS4 or would people care enough if they did to not buy them?  The issue is more that when you buy a Nintendo console you give up all this other stuff to fit into this specific way Nintendo wants to do things.  As a third party they can still do things largely their own way without restricting the experience at a console level.  And I think most people really like Nintendo games, they just don't want to have to buy a second console or give up virtually everything else to access them.

I don't really want Nintendo to go third party but it feels like expecting them to get their console to meet industry standards is futile.  If the option came down to going third party or dying/abandoning videogame entirely then I would rather they go third party.  Unless they somehow survive while everyone dies but is that even a longterm thing?  Are we all suddenly going to forget that these big budget games existed?  It would just be a matter of time before someone with big pockets gives that another go and raises consumer standards again.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Soren on July 09, 2015, 03:22:15 PM
As a third party they can still do things largely their own way without restricting the experience at a console level. 


They would also have way less money and far fewer development studios. Hope you like Mario games.


A company like NIS for example doesn't bother. 

How many games does NIS publish and develop each year? How many games does Nintendo publish and develop each year?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: ThePerm on July 09, 2015, 06:27:55 PM
As far as having a multiplatform os....

I woke up and turned on my wii u to watch netflix...
There was an advertisement telling me that I should get Ocarina of Time for Virtual Console, and the first thing I thought was "I wish it was the 3ds version, I'd buy that."

Also, how would sales change for a Nintendo Xbox combined strategy? Wouldn't software sales go way up?(where companies make the real money?) There are people who wouldn't buy a Nintendo, they would buy an Xbox, and if a Nintendo game they liked would happen to be on it than they would buy that. We could go back to the 2 platforms. Which would simplify it for all of us. That third party support..it would come back again. Its a weird position to be in where both Nintendo and Xbox are at. Ps4 is doing the combined sales of both platforms. Nintendo needs to upgrade its hardware already, but what if you could just absorb already released hardware? What if the main concern of Nintendo wasn't what you played it on, but how you played it?

and Why NX, does it just sound cool, or is there meaning behind it?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ceric on July 09, 2015, 10:30:32 PM
So there is rumors for the spec of the Lumia 940 XL.  Screen Resolution rumored as 1440x2550, fully DirectX 11 capable, 8 cored, 3GB Ram (Considering everything else that feels low).

The funny part is I don't really doubt those specs.  It doesn't have to have a 4k display on the Nintendo Handheld but being able to reliable drive a 60fps 1080p display would allow to push to 4k if you really wanted to on the screen.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Shaymin on July 09, 2015, 11:06:23 PM
I believe the term being thrown around for the handheld screen is "more than we expect, less than what we want".

I'm thinking 960x540 for the handheld screen, which would allow console versions of the software a clean path to 1080p.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Enner on July 16, 2015, 10:42:14 PM
http://venturebeat.com/2015/07/16/more-hints-that-amd-is-building-nintendo-nxs-processor/

The Nintendo NX featuring an x86-based AMD APU makes sense. Nintendo has a good relationship with the company since they have been supplying them with GPUs since the ArtX/ATI days. Also, AMD supplies APUs for the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One. The experience and resources will keep costs down for AMD and Nintendo. Lastly, AMD hasn't been faring well in the market against Intel and other chip manufacturers. While making APUs for video game consoles has low margins, it is a niche that AMD is comfortably in. AMD may feel incentivized to solidify their position.

Of course, Nintendo may hang a wild turn in to nVidia or something ARM-based.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Enner on July 28, 2015, 06:12:56 AM
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/40829/dragon-quest-xi-announced-for-nintendo-3ds-and-nx (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/news/40829/dragon-quest-xi-announced-for-nintendo-3ds-and-nx)

There are two paths I see in this latest news:

"NX is the hybrid" - The NX version of Dragon Quest XI is an upgraded version of the Nintendo 3DS version. Which means the NX is the low-powered, portable-focused, can-stream-to-a-HDTV hybrid console that some people are guessing.

"NX is a home console or has a home console component" - The NX version of Dragon Quest XI is the PlayStation 4 version of the game. That means the NX has computational power comparable to the PlayStation 4 and supports Unreal Engine 4.

Oh, and the controller will have enough buttons, pads, and sticks to play this Dragon Quest game in either scenario.

While there is a chance of the former being true, all the currently available talk and rumor indicates to me the latter.

Still, taking the announcement in a vacuum or as a whole, the news still leaves NX as a mystery.

EDIT:
http://www.siliconera.com/2015/07/28/dragon-quest-x-and-xi-are-in-development-for-nintendo-nx/ (http://www.siliconera.com/2015/07/28/dragon-quest-x-and-xi-are-in-development-for-nintendo-nx/)

Dragon Quest X (the MMO) will also see an NX version.
This falls in line with Mr. Iwata talking about how the NX will absorb the Wii U architecture in some fashion. That doesn't mean that the NX version of DQX will be some quick and dirty port, though.

Again, there is that 3DS version of DQX that uses cloud streaming to function. But to think that is what the NX version will be based on is absurd given the launch troubles of the 3DS version.

So, I guess that means at the very least the hybrid console will be as powerful as the Wii U? I know we live in a world where the PlayStation Vita and the latest tablets exist, but the thought of a portable Wii U impresses me a bit.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Shaymin on July 28, 2015, 07:02:05 AM
Or "NX is an operating system" and DQXI is releasing on two handhelds next year.

Officially, SE is only "considering" the NX: http://www.jp.square-enix.com/company/ja/news/2015/html/8e4134b8203fc226980d056951e0aac0.html
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Enner on July 28, 2015, 07:19:54 AM
Well, the NX has to run on some piece of hardware. If it was only a regular handheld console, that would be underwhelming.

I was just about to write that the NX version is not set in stone. That might indicate that Square Enix doesn't know that much more about the NX than we do.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Soren on July 28, 2015, 11:32:21 AM
Or "NX is an operating system" and DQXI is releasing on two handhelds next year.


My money is on the possible NX version of DQXI being a port of the PS4 version, regardless of whether its a handheld or a console. We'll get to see the "scaleability" of the new OS, and maybe see how much easier it is to port than Wii U/3DS.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Louieturkey on July 28, 2015, 08:47:27 PM
Anyone else think the NX could be a very slight incremental bump in specs to accommodate the ability to use 2 or more touch screen controllers.  This is what the Wii was compared to the GCN.  Nintendo even stated that they originally tried to get four wiimotes working on the Gamecube and it just wasn't powerful enough. So they created the Wii so it had enough power for that and that's pretty much all they added.

Could the NX just be a Wii U, but with enough power to stream to four touchscreens at once and possibly add multitouch?  I'm hoping it's more and it can have the PS4 version of DQXI ported to it with no problem.  But with the way Iwata mentioned that the NX would somehow absord the Wii U, they may look at what they did from GCN to Wii and think they could replicate that and have success.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on July 28, 2015, 08:53:33 PM
SURPRISE! NX is a Nintendo branded line of shoes & bread.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: lolmonade on July 28, 2015, 09:39:59 PM
Anyone else think the NX could be a very slight incremental bump in specs to accommodate the ability to use 2 or more touch screen controllers.  This is what the Wii was compared to the GCN.  Nintendo even stated that they originally tried to get four wiimotes working on the Gamecube and it just wasn't powerful enough. So they created the Wii so it had enough power for that and that's pretty much all they added.

Could the NX just be a Wii U, but with enough power to stream to four touchscreens at once and possibly add multitouch?  I'm hoping it's more and it can have the PS4 version of DQXI ported to it with no problem.  But with the way Iwata mentioned that the NX would somehow absord the Wii U, they may look at what they did from GCN to Wii and think they could replicate that and have success.


Oh trust me, whatever NX turns out to be, it can't get anywhere close to the wild imaginations of NWR forum goers.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: nickmitch on July 28, 2015, 10:56:50 PM
Anyone else think the NX could be a very slight incremental bump in specs to accommodate the ability to use 2 or more touch screen controllers.  This is what the Wii was compared to the GCN.  Nintendo even stated that they originally tried to get four wiimotes working on the Gamecube and it just wasn't powerful enough. So they created the Wii so it had enough power for that and that's pretty much all they added.

Could the NX just be a Wii U, but with enough power to stream to four touchscreens at once and possibly add multitouch?  I'm hoping it's more and it can have the PS4 version of DQXI ported to it with no problem.  But with the way Iwata mentioned that the NX would somehow absord the Wii U, they may look at what they did from GCN to Wii and think they could replicate that and have success.

But would they really make that mistake AGAIN?  I mean, yeah, they would but. . .

Nevermind.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 29, 2015, 12:02:16 PM
Anyone else think the NX could be a very slight incremental bump in specs to accommodate the ability to use 2 or more touch screen controllers.  This is what the Wii was compared to the GCN.  Nintendo even stated that they originally tried to get four wiimotes working on the Gamecube and it just wasn't powerful enough. So they created the Wii so it had enough power for that and that's pretty much all they added.

Could the NX just be a Wii U, but with enough power to stream to four touchscreens at once and possibly add multitouch?  I'm hoping it's more and it can have the PS4 version of DQXI ported to it with no problem.  But with the way Iwata mentioned that the NX would somehow absord the Wii U, they may look at what they did from GCN to Wii and think they could replicate that and have success.

That seems like an idea that is 100% guaranteed to fail.  If the touchscreen was such a great idea I figure the Wii U wouldn't have flopped in the first place.  Plus how expensive would it be for someone to own four touchscreen controllers?

Of course it's Nintendo so while I don't think they'll do this, I wouldn't be shocked if they did.  My expectation of the NX is that it will not be what I think it should be.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Adrock on July 29, 2015, 12:54:18 PM
The only way I can see NX being an incremental bump is if its a literal hybrid. That's the sacrifice that has to be made for a product like that to be even remotely viable. Battery life and heat instantly limit handheld electronics. Again, Iwata has already said more than once that Nintendo isn't going the hybrid direction. Unless that's just misdirection, I believe it. Nintendo still wants to sell two pieces of hardware even if they play the same games. Why? Because schmucks like myself would totally still buy both.
Plus how expensive would it be for someone to own four touchscreen controllers?
Not much more expensive than it costs to own four controllers on the other consoles as long as Nintendo doesn't get too greedy. At launch, Nintendo was trying to make like $100 per replacement which can promptly get the **** out of my face. These companies make a killing on controllers because the console is worthless without them. Even with an upgraded GamePad, I still see Nintendo having the Pro Controller around which it will similarly make a killing on.

The Wii U Pro Controller probably costs Nintendo less than $10 in parts and manufacturing. I've always felt Nintendo set the price at $50 for profit margins and for parity. It wants the controller to seem on par with the others even if it's missing key pieces. It also makes the GamePad seem like a luxury item even it isn't. Such is life, I guess.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: lolmonade on July 29, 2015, 02:32:11 PM
So much speculation here.  Ill be honest, the most I expect, and it's evidenced by some things that have already been written, is:
 
The wildest i'd be willing to speculate:
All together, that seems like pretty wild too, huh?  But I'm willing to wager at least one or two of those are accurate as it gets unveiled.
 
 
 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: sudoshuff on July 29, 2015, 11:13:41 PM
One of my guesses (and one for many people) is that they will expand on the idea of using the handheld as a controller for the console.  The 3DS works great as a smash controller.  This would allow them to do backwards compatibility for Wii U games. Instead of of bundling a gamepad with the new NX console, they could just say "if you buy the NX handheld, it will function as a gamepad." 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Evan_B on July 30, 2015, 11:03:15 PM
At first, I laughed at the possibility of the NX being a Wii U able to stream to multiple gamepads- but now that I think about it, it does make sense. They clearly spent a lot of development time on the streaming capabilities of the Wii U and while it didn't take off quite as well, if they dedicated themselves towards pushing that idea further and doing this "NX family" sort of idea, where the handheld streams to the home console, it might just work.

But how do they sell this sort of thing? I think telling people to buy two separate sets of hardware is a risky venture. Two SKUs, one for a handheld NX and one that has the console version isn't viable, especially if the console version is lacking features the handheld version has, or vice versa. Therefore, I believe that the console version will come with a disc drive/tv-connection device but also be a NX handheld as well.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Louieturkey on July 31, 2015, 05:23:26 PM
I'm hoping they bring the cost down of the gamepads to at max $70 as that would get it closer to the price of other controllers and still be considered a premium due to the screen.  That way it's more likely people would want this style of system.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Ian Sane on July 31, 2015, 07:07:47 PM
Multiple Gamepads is the same concept as games like Crystal Chronicles and Four Swords Adventures and, though I thought Four Swords is one of the best Cube games, the general reaction to those games was "meh".  The whole appeal is that everyone has their own screen... except that's like the norm these days with online multiplayer.  Even back in 2003 the concept seemed like a solution to a problem Nintendo invented, like the whole thing was some workaround for the online play Nintendo for some goofy reason refused to support.  Today when kids probably see local multiplayer as some archaic design from their parents' days it looks even sillier.  Online with voice chat offers essentially the same concept and Nintendo's idiotic anti-voice chat attitude doesn't change that.

So you take a concept that flopped over ten years ago that seems WAY less necessary today, paired up with the trademark concept of a console that was a bomb.  That's such a recipe for failure that it seems on purpose, like it's some weird insurance scam or something.  The Wii U was not some solid concept that was one or two little details away from being a hit.  It was completely the wrong product.

The only way I could MAYBE see such a concept work is if you have multiple Gamepads and all of them can do off-TV play at the same time with completely different games and sessions.  So the idea is that the family buys one system with multiple Gamepads, that are at a much lower price then separate handheld game systems would be, and all of them can use the console at the same time for different things in different parts of the house.  Someone is using Netflix in this room, two other people are playing a multiplayer game together in another, and another is playing a completely different game in another.  Of course that would require some impressive horsepower to pull that off.  That concept could possibly sell.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: MagicCow64 on July 31, 2015, 10:17:28 PM
Multiple Gamepads is the same concept as games like Crystal Chronicles and Four Swords Adventures and, though I thought Four Swords is one of the best Cube games, the general reaction to those games was "meh".  The whole appeal is that everyone has their own screen... except that's like the norm these days with online multiplayer.  Even back in 2003 the concept seemed like a solution to a problem Nintendo invented, like the whole thing was some workaround for the online play Nintendo for some goofy reason refused to support.  Today when kids probably see local multiplayer as some archaic design from their parents' days it looks even sillier.  Online with voice chat offers essentially the same concept and Nintendo's idiotic anti-voice chat attitude doesn't change that.

So you take a concept that flopped over ten years ago that seems WAY less necessary today, paired up with the trademark concept of a console that was a bomb.  That's such a recipe for failure that it seems on purpose, like it's some weird insurance scam or something.  The Wii U was not some solid concept that was one or two little details away from being a hit.  It was completely the wrong product.

The only way I could MAYBE see such a concept work is if you have multiple Gamepads and all of them can do off-TV play at the same time with completely different games and sessions.  So the idea is that the family buys one system with multiple Gamepads, that are at a much lower price then separate handheld game systems would be, and all of them can use the console at the same time for different things in different parts of the house.  Someone is using Netflix in this room, two other people are playing a multiplayer game together in another, and another is playing a completely different game in another.  Of course that would require some impressive horsepower to pull that off.  That concept could possibly sell.

I mean, I mostly buy this analysis, but I think they were more so gambling on local multiplayer still being the most enjoyable way to play videogames with other people. That was the Wii's big hook, and a huge awakening while it lasted, though the energy quickly went elsewhere. There's a reotroactively sad logic to them doubling down on unique/convenient local multiplayer experiences while integrating the tools of the previous iteration.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Steven9wii on July 31, 2015, 10:50:29 PM
i think it's too early for another system.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 01, 2015, 02:25:41 AM
i think it's too early for another system.

If it comes out holiday 2016 it'll have been 4 years, which seems reasonable considering how much of a flop the Wii U has been.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Shaymin on August 01, 2015, 09:00:00 AM
i think it's too early for another system.

If it comes out holiday 2016 it'll have been nearly 6 years, which seems reasonable considering how much of a flop the 3DS was at launch.

FTFY
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: ShyGuy on August 01, 2015, 12:42:28 PM
Orginal Xbox had four years before the 360. GBA was three years before the DS came out.
Wii ran six years instead of the "typical" five, so a four year life cycle seems okay to me.


I speculate Nintendo could be replacing the typical console life cycle with a more frequent and incremental release schedule for successors, keeping the same basic software base. Something like the iPad has.

For example:
Fall 2016: NX portable
Spring 2017: NX home
Fall 2018: NX Lite
Summer 2019: NX home advanced

This was  hinted at by Iwata before: http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/nintendo-president-satoru-iwata-discusses-the-future-of-nintendo-hardware-beyond-wii-u-and-nintendo-3ds/
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (July 2016 Release? $150? Third Parties?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on August 02, 2015, 02:45:01 AM
I have a mock up/ prototype of what this system is and I'll post is 2maro.


The NX will play:


Two types of media Both Disc based and 3DS like cartridges on 1 singular system.


Have and advanced AR functionality (think that april fools gag from 2014 with both Google maps and Pokemon, my incredibly unreliable sources say Nintendo was most impressed with the response from consumers and have thought this to be the natural progression of gaming and NOT VR.




And whom ever said that the NX maybe a OS is really close to the mark. Think of the NEW 3DS XL with a docking station the makes it a home console.  Far more powerful than the 3DS but not quite a PS4.. DOCKING STATION is the Cloud, meaning the Home version of the game can be "paired" with the  "Go" version.
 







Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Soren on August 10, 2015, 10:18:43 AM
Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn NX port?

Yoshida says it's possible, depending on the release date and cross-platform gameplay. More importantly though, negotiations have not started yet.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2015/08/nintendo_nx_could_get_a_port_of_mmorpg_final_fantasy_xiv_a_realm_reborn




Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Enner on August 10, 2015, 05:32:07 PM
That Final Fantasy 14 consideration... ah!
Negotiations not being started leaves some room that Square Enix doesn't know what the NX is in terms of technical specifications.

But what if Square Enix knows how much power the NX has? That these considerations of Dragon Quest 10, Dragon Quest 11, and now Final Fantasy 14 are not some carelessly spoken idle chatter but serious business?

This latest rumbling gives a bit of hope to the camps that want the NX or a component of the NX to have technical prowess on par with PlayStation 4 or Xbox One.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on August 10, 2015, 05:58:56 PM
One good thing to take away from this is that a third party like Square Enix is open to the idea of supporting the NX.  They haven't written it off as something they would never support because they would presume it would fail.  I fully expected somebody like EA or Ubisoft to have that attitude after they so quickly abandoned the Wii U.  Just somebody that actually matters not dismissing Nintendo outright is encouraging.

Though right now it's just talk so we shouldn't get our hopes up too high yet.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ThePerm on August 10, 2015, 07:34:04 PM
Well it could be some developers dropped support of Wii U because they were already in the loop for NX. Square Enix is kinda a good canary when it comes to support. Generally, they are a well regarded studio that makes (currently mediocre) games, the games won't sell themselves so they rely on user-base and Square name recognition to keep themselves afloat. If they support wii u that usually means others will too.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on August 10, 2015, 07:54:34 PM
I would hope Square Enix knows what the NX is since it was allegedly shown to third parties at E3.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Evan_B on August 19, 2015, 12:52:24 AM
Give me Final Fantasy XV on NX and I'll reconsider Square's support.

Nintendo has shot themselves in the foot yet again with the announcement of the NX, so much so, that I believe they screwed Wii U sales further by making everyone anticipate a successor- which the NX will be, there's no doubt. I think NX has great potential to be the console that helps Nintendo rise from the ashes as long as they appreciate backwards compatability for the system.

I'm fully convinced at this point that NX will be a hybrid and it will play 3DS and Wii U games.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on August 19, 2015, 06:23:58 AM
Nintendo painted itself into a corner so announcing NX in March was its best move. Given Wii U's performance, Nintendo couldn't reasonably announce its mobile partnership with DeNA without also reassuring everyone that it isn't leaving the hardware business. Sure, Nintendo was forced to throw Wii U under the bus, but that's better than throwing Wii U under the bus AND leaving its future in hardware in question. All things considered, Nintendo (surprisingly) handled that as well as it could.

Anyway, I'm surprised anyone can still be so confidently on the hybrid train despite all evidence to the contrary. On more than one occasion, Nintendo has essentially said, "No, we're not making a hybrid."
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Shaymin on August 19, 2015, 07:03:42 AM
Give me Final Fantasy XV on NX and I'll reconsider Square's support.

You're asking for a game that's not launching until Nintendo's next NEXT console at the current pace. I'm sure they'll get around to it, though.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Evan_B on August 19, 2015, 10:26:10 AM
Anyway, I'm surprised anyone can still be so confidently on the hybrid train despite all evidence to the contrary. On more than one occasion, Nintendo has essentially said, "No, we're not making a hybrid."
Can I have a source for that? Because I follow news pretty religiously and I've heard nothing of the sort.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Soren on August 19, 2015, 12:28:14 PM
March 2014 investor meeting: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/140130qa/02.html

Quote
In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Miyamoto at E3 2014: http://kotaku.com/miyamoto-can-imagine-nintendo-making-hybrid-console-han-1594989023

Quote
Certainly from a development standpoint there is some challenge to it, because if you have two devices that have different specs and you're being told to design in a way that the game runs on both devices, then that can be challenging for the developer—but if you have a more unified development environment and you're able to make one game that runs on both systems instead of having to make a game for each system, that's an area of opportunity for us.

The Wii U and 3DS will each get a successor. Console and handheld, two different products but united under the same operating system.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on August 19, 2015, 12:39:18 PM
Also
Iwata: Unified Console And Handheld Division Could Lead To More Platforms (http://nintendoeverything.com/iwata-unified-console-and-handheld-division-could-lead-to-more-platforms/)
Quote
In terms of our platform integration, as I explained to you a short while ago, we are not saying that we are planning to integrate our platforms into one. What we are saying is that we would like to integrate software development methods, operating systems, and built-in software and software assets for each platform so that we can use them across different machines.
And from the same investor's meeting Soren linked to:
Iwata on integrating handheld/console teams, next system will “absorb the Wii U architecture adequately” (http://nintendoeverything.com/iwata-on-integrating-handheldconsole-teams-next-system-will-absorb-the-wii-u-architecture-adequately-more/)
Quote
Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 19, 2015, 12:53:47 PM
Those last two sound less like declarations that they're not doing that and more like them saying that they're not saying they're doing that right now, though, which they've done numerous times shortly before they've then done that thing.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on August 19, 2015, 01:34:53 PM
Typically, Nintendo does that when it's trying to shut down a rumor which then ends up being true a couple weeks later. In this instance, Nintendo has been dropping hints that it's planning a handheld and console that play the same games for nearly three years now. And every time the subject comes up again, Nintendo gives a little more. I get what you're saying considering Nintendo's history of denying the existence of handhelds that it ends up releasing (e.g. just about every redesign). It could be misdirection. I doubt it though. I don't remember Nintendo being this forthcoming (albeit still coy) about its future platforms before. It's as if Nintendo wants to talk about them and move on from Wii U but can't justifiably do so this early.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 19, 2015, 01:42:57 PM
Nintendo tried to be secretive the last couple times they had new hardware and both times ended up with huge leaks forcing their hand early. Maybe they're trying something different to avoid that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on August 19, 2015, 02:51:57 PM
I get the feeling that if Nintendo releases a new handheld and a new console and they both play the same games that the handheld is going to sell really well and the console is going to bomb.  They had the problem this gen that they kept releasing 3DS games that were very similar to Wii U games so that diminished the need for a Wii U.  I prefer consoles so I would buy the console but the general public trusts Nintendo for handhelds but absolutely not for consoles.  So if the console doesn't offer much distinct from the handheld there isn't much of a selling point beyond appealing to people like me that don't like handheld gaming and only buy handhelds for their exclusives.  The hybrid concept works better because it's just one purchase and the customer uses it in the way that suits them.

Sony's handhelds tend to have virtually the same games as their consoles and what happens?  Everyone buys their console and not the handheld.  PlayStation is a strong console brand name but a weak handheld one so with very little to differentiate between the two systems the one with the stronger reputation is the successful one.

I think ultimately people will buy one handheld or one console or one of each.  Nintendo's console needs to come across as an obvious choice OVER the PS4 and XB1.  If it's just a console version of the "4DS" then people will gladly get their preferred combination of a Nintendo handheld and a Sony/MS console.  If the NX console has the same games as the handheld then someone with that combo misses out on virtually nothing.  At least right now if they go 3DS/PS4 they miss out on Wii U exclusives.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: MagicCow64 on August 19, 2015, 03:22:25 PM

Sony's handhelds tend to have virtually the same games as their consoles and what happens?  Everyone buys their console and not the handheld.  PlayStation is a strong console brand name but a weak handheld one so with very little to differentiate between the two systems the one with the stronger reputation is the successful one.


That's a good point. I also thought the PSP was wrong-headed from the get-go, and didn't know why anyone would want to play complex 3D games (that were also inferior to console counterparts by most metrics) on a small screen  while on the go. And based on the collapse of the Vita, it would seem that most of the market agrees at this point, especially when simple and accessible phone games are universally available. While people do obviously have much more confidence in Nintendo's handhelds, they essentially have the same problem, and the 3DS, while still doing pretty well against the mobile juggernaut, is nowhere near as successful as the DS.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Enner on August 19, 2015, 04:47:19 PM
If what killed the Wii U was 3DS games being too similar overall from content to quality, then that situation will repeat itself regardless as the power and value of handheld hardware improves.

If a repeat of the 3DS and Wii U come to the NX Handheld and NX Home, then at least Nintendo is better off in this situation by more easily being able to produce games for both systems.

While Japan is veering more towards portable means of play, North American, European, Australian, and some other territories show a preference for home consoles. In the hypothetical situation of the NX Handheld and NX Home, Nintendo is in an easier place to provide enough software for both platforms. This also avoids the potential worst-of-both-worlds pitfalls of an NX Hybrid.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on August 19, 2015, 07:09:33 PM
The hybrid concept works better because it's just one purchase and the customer uses it in the way that suits them.
And a customer would just buy the hardware, handheld or console, that suits them without having to deal with the compromises of a hybrid. You continually bitch about hardware power and you're championing Nintendo going with weaker hardware? And you're not even going to use it as a handheld because you admittedly don't like handheld gaming? What the what?

In a scenario in which Nintendo released a console and handheld that played the same games, I'd imagine Nintendo would adjust manufacturing accordingly, namely that far more handhelds would be made. The console underperforming certainly isn't ideal, but the entire point of this is to consolidate Nintendo's development resources while still giving third parties the most options.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Evan_B on August 19, 2015, 09:08:28 PM
Yeah, so none of those quotes proved a thing about a hybrid console. A hybrid console can mean something that plays games from both systems or utilizes the same tech.

And let's be honest, the console in the most people's hands right now is the 3DS. Nintendo should play to their strengths and not do this ridiculous strategy of releasing the same installments on two systems, especially after the a Wii U had three very iterative hallmark titles that looked like their 3DS versions with better graphics. As said before, Nintendo trying to cover their bases in terms of software library on both consoles has been a bad move- I never play Mario Kart 7 because it doesn't do anything different enough from MK8. I didn't even buy MK7 for the same reason. And when your biggest franchise, Mario, has games that look identical on two systems (thankfully the Wii U version isn't utter garbage like the 3DS), that's a big problem, and something that a unification or hybrid style device that unites the libraries of both consoles would be extremely beneficial.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 20, 2015, 12:22:42 AM
The hybrid concept works better because it's just one purchase and the customer uses it in the way that suits them.
And a customer would just buy the hardware, handheld or console, that suits them without having to deal with the compromises of a hybrid. You continually bitch about hardware power and you're championing Nintendo going with weaker hardware? And you're not even going to use it as a handheld because you admittedly don't like handheld gaming? What the what?

In a scenario in which Nintendo released a console and handheld that played the same games, I'd imagine Nintendo would adjust manufacturing accordingly, namely that far more handhelds would be made. The console underperforming certainly isn't ideal, but the entire point of this is to consolidate Nintendo's development resources while still giving third parties the most options.

Except we should not be looking at it from the consumer perspective but from Nintendo's business perspective.

Here is what having a hybrid system or 2 different systems that play the same games would do for Nintendo. 

1) Customers would pick which console they want, but if both are priced at a profit Nintendo doesn't care, because Nintendo gets a big user base for 3rd party and 1st party games.
2) Nintendo gets instant credibility back in the market because 3rd parties and gamers have not abandoned Nintendo's portable market.
3) Nintendo doesn't have to compromise resources on two different consoles...instead one game for two systems, means that Nintendo can release more games a year....since both systems can play both games.
4)Nintendo can be freed up to make more original games and IPs.  Just imagine Nintendo doesn't have to make a Zelda, Mario, Mario Kart, Smash Bros, Animal Crossing for each different system...that Nintendo can make one version to play on all systems...that means Nintendo can release more games like Splatoon.

Yes a hybrid system or even 2 systems that run on the same OS might offer compromises for the player and for Nintendo, but it also gives both huge advantages that shouldn't be ignored.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: MagicCow64 on August 20, 2015, 01:26:43 AM
Another issue is that if the scalable games between handheld and console thing is true, it places a pretty significant cap on the types of games that will be made. I'm not super up on the specs of stuff, but I'd assume that a new handheld wouldn't be too much stronger than a Vita, which from my understanding is spec-wise a gimped PS3. So we'd be looking at games broadly targeted at WiiU-level specs, with maybe a few exclusives on the console side of the NX equation. Granted, Nintendo doesn't greatly emphasize pushing technical boundaries at this point (and frankly I've yet to see anything "next gen" that really introduces new design concepts based on processing power), but something has to break that ceiling at some point.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 20, 2015, 01:40:13 AM
It's also possible that not all games will work across both platforms, with a more poweful console SKU that is required for certain things, like how some iPad games won't work on iPhones.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Soren on August 20, 2015, 05:47:42 AM
I don't think a 3DS successor will be anywhere near Wii U level specs. You want enough contrast between your handheld and your console so it doesn't end up being a Vita situation. I think you can make that distinction in games like insano said but I don't think the 4DS goes over 480p.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on August 20, 2015, 06:14:25 AM
It's also possible that not all games will work across both platforms, with a more poweful console SKU that is required for certain things, like how some iPad games won't work on iPhones.
That's one of the main reasons why I think the two-platforms-that-play-the-same games concept is a better solution for both Nintendo and consumers. Nintendo's bread and butter is its first party content. Scaling games wouldn't stifle its creativity since it has been known to still make great games on any sort of hardware. It's mainly an option for third parties. Some games can be scaled, but third parties won't get locked out entirely if certain games can't be scaled down enough to work on the handheld. That brings up the question of whether the console would have a large enough user base for third parties to bother. However, consumers having access to all of Nintendo's current software makes it an easier sell to consumers. I don't know if Nintendo will ever completely shake the stigma that people who own its hardware only buy first party games, but if porting is made easy, it might be worth it to test the waters.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Shaymin on August 20, 2015, 07:14:30 AM
I don't think a 3DS successor will be anywhere near Wii U level specs. You want enough contrast between your handheld and your console so it doesn't end up being a Vita situation. I think you can make that distinction in games like insano said but I don't think the 4DS goes over 480p.

The NX-running next handheld actually might have a good reason to go 960x540. That's probably the upper limit.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on August 20, 2015, 10:50:00 AM
Well everyone keeps tell console gamers that PC is the master race...well as PCs have been doing scaling for years now...and it seems to work just fine without truly limiting the scale of the game. 

If the cards or discs or download size allotment isn't a problem then they could just download models and scales that fit the device.  Cross buy could even be a motivating factor for consumers.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on August 20, 2015, 01:33:44 PM
The hybrid concept works better because it's just one purchase and the customer uses it in the way that suits them.
And a customer would just buy the hardware, handheld or console, that suits them without having to deal with the compromises of a hybrid. You continually bitch about hardware power and you're championing Nintendo going with weaker hardware? And you're not even going to use it as a handheld because you admittedly don't like handheld gaming? What the what?

I don't necessarily want the hybrid as much as I just think that's a better strategy than two products that are effectively the same thing.  Now if the console and handheld were clearly different with different games then I think that also would be a good strategy if Nintendo was able to fix their third party support and expanded their resources so that supporting two platforms isn't too difficult for them to do.  But we know they're not interested in that.  They want to bring the two platforms together in some way.  In that scenario I think a hybrid has more sales potential.

Of course I'm also thinking of typical Nintendo goofiness that will muddle up the concept.  Best case scenario you have two platforms with scalable games and cross-buy and the specs on the console are powerful enough that it allows for easy PS4/XB1 third party ports.  Most games are on both platforms but you can have exclusives that take full advantage of the specific hardware.  Nintendo themselves makes some console exclusives where they really push the hardware.  Worst case scenario - no cross-buy and outdated console specs so the NX console is basically nothing more than a console version of the handheld that you have to rebuy the same games for.  Third party support does not improve (aside from up-ports of handheld games) and Nintendo intentionally scales back all of their games to work on the handheld.  Which scenario seems more like what Nintendo would do?  They're greedy so I can see them not offering universal cross-buy and they're cheap so I can see them cheaping out on the specs.

And I'm also just thinking about the damage they've done to their brand name in the console space.  We might sadly be at the point of no return where Nintendo could do everything perfectly but no one will notice because they've already written them off for good.  In that case a hybrid works as a Trojan horse to get a Nintendo "console" in the house of someone who was just intending on buying a Nintendo handheld.  If they're separate then it needs to be such that Nintendo is both the number one choice for handheld and console and it's going to be a lot of work to make it seem like the Nintendo console is worth getting over a PS4 and XB1 (and those consoles now have a several year head start).  Nintendo handheld games with nicer graphics isn't going to cut it.  Nintendo's exclusives have consistently been the best part of their consoles and if the exclusives are all shared with the handheld then they lose the one thing we can probably assume Nintendo will do well.  Nintendo pretty much has to do everything else right and, while I would like that, I don't see that as a realistic scenario.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Evan_B on August 20, 2015, 02:37:19 PM
I don't care if Nintendo handhelds share exclusives because I'm sick of the current lazy trend they've made of slight graphical updates for their 'go-to' franchises and one or two added gimmicks that differentiate a handheld version from a console version.

NSMB and NSMBWii felt different enough because of the co-op and larger, more-polished level design (and the sizable difference in graphics), but then NSMB2 and NSMBU were insulting, MK7 and MK8 were insulting, and I suffered through Nintendo getting everything WRONG with the 3D Land formula the first time around before finally being able to enjoy it on Wii U. That's not to mention the blatant similarities of Return to Dreamland and Triple Deluxe, Returns 3D and Tropical Freeze (though I do love the latter)... it doesn't even feel like Nintendo's trying with these franchises anymore and that's frustrating to me because I don't want to have to buy the inferior handheld edition to justify my purchase of the handheld only to be screwed when the updated sequel comes out.

Huh, I guess I just gave the soapbox speech of every gamer that buys a yearly release franchise, or plays video games in general. I just expected more from Nintendo, and for every step in the right direction like XCX or Zelda, where the effort is clear, they make a stupid mistake with a game like Smash Bros.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Enner on August 21, 2015, 03:50:30 PM
Patents!
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=47643.150

A 2015 patent. Patents are very dry, but the interesting takes here are a console that lacks an optical disk drive and another controller with a display screen. It's a Nintendo Go, sans the portability.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Parallax Scroll on August 21, 2015, 07:19:39 PM



(http://abload.de/img/opnxkm4.png)

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1099932


http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/08/21/nintendo-files-patent-for-console-with-no-optical-drive


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2015-08-21-nintendo-nx-leak-suggests-it-wont-include-a-disc-drive-report


http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidthier/2015/07/24/nintendo-just-filed-a-patent-for-a-bizzare-new-device/







Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ThePerm on August 21, 2015, 08:12:00 PM
well there goes backwards compatability.....

does it rely on the server for processing to some degree?

then again why not release a usb 3.0 external optical drive for classic games? People who want it buy it, people who don't do not. There were only 3 generations of optical drives for Nintendo. There's still time to make Wii U backwards compatible with GameCube too.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Enner on August 21, 2015, 08:40:52 PM
This is a reminder that patents could mean anything or nothing, and that they are terribly vague because patent law is messed up.

So patents are smoke and mirrors... until they aren't!


well there goes backwards compatability.....

does it rely on the server for processing to some degree?

then again why not release a usb 3.0 external optical drive for classic games? People who want it buy it, people who don't do not. There were only 3 generations of optical drives for Nintendo. There's still time to make Wii U backwards compatible with GameCube too.
There's always eShop versions of games.


As for cloud processing, that is definitely a very un-Nintendo thing to guess in a time when eShop gets taken down every Christmas.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: MagicCow64 on August 21, 2015, 09:01:48 PM
One of the external threads I read about this was speculating about references to comparability with optical drives or devices with optical drives, as well as a feature of the processor that would control its speed to sync up properly with (theoretically) an external optical drive or hard drive.

If that's the case, I'm wondering based on Perm's post if they couldn't indeed have a say ~$100 optical add-on that would also have some of its own processing power that could emulate Wii and WiiU games natively. Would keep the cost down on the new console unit, while providing an option to new adopters to take advantage of the WiiU's strong (if small) library. This would be an annoying backwards compatibility option for WiiU owners, but there aren't that many and while the Xbone's upcoming feature is better, this NX option would be preferable to the lousy streaming rental system on PS4.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Evan_B on August 21, 2015, 10:46:29 PM
I'm guessing that the memory card comment is for SD cards, and not actual memory cards or game carts.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ShyGuy on August 22, 2015, 03:20:01 AM
It could be both
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on August 22, 2015, 08:04:58 AM
I can't see Nintendo dropping physical media before Sony and Microsoft do if only because it has the worst online presence of the three. This would be a ballsy move, but it isn't the kind Nintendo would make.

Nintendo never wanted to adopt optical media in the first place. Even when forced to by an evolving market and consumer expectations, it refused to embrace it entirely with smaller discs on GameCube and a staunch refusal for music and movie playback. The writing was on the wall once cards reached DVD-levels of storage. Capacity and speed continue to rise while cost drops. It still costs more than optical discs, but Nintendo never cared about cost when it came to physical media (maybe Nintendo should). It cared about control. Nintendo likes controlling its media even at the expense of third parties. Digital releases allows Nintendo to have its cake and eat it too though having a physical presence in stores helps tremendously.

If anything, this lends credence to the handheld-and-console-play-the-same-games concept. Optical media doesn't make sense in a handheld.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 22, 2015, 08:52:39 AM
Nintendo's online presence is the worst in terms of multiplayer (and even then, the Wii U got it up to fairly close), but I'd argue navigating the eShop is a significantly more pleasant endeavour than going through Sony or Microsoft's store. If DeNA don't screw up the account system, I'd argue they're probably in the best position to make that move. Also, with the way Nintendo designs hardware, they'd be in the best position to offer retailers better margins to get them to stock the system without physical games.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on August 22, 2015, 11:34:47 AM
This could be 2 things:


"New" Wii U Slim: This would allow Nintendo to continue to support the Wii U brand and offer those few hold outs that are waiting for a price drop to jump in at a discounted price. $199.99 preloaded with "Select Nintendo games" I'd put this at about 35%.




Nintendo ibrydia : (Codename NX)


I 'm in line with the Hybrid console and there are a few bits in that patten that tend to point there for me. The most is the memory card with first and second basic programs(mobile and console code). Server App could mean the docking station, which I am a firm believer is a part of this unit. Also the mass-produced price of new age cartridges and not so out of line with Vita and 3DS that Nintendo could be going back. Plus you can't really max out a cart and they have faster speeds than Blu-ray Disc



Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ShyGuy on August 22, 2015, 01:06:23 PM
Dropping the optical drive means:

- less power needed
- more reliable
- cheaper to build

Nintendo loves all those things
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on August 22, 2015, 01:15:06 PM
"New" Wii U Slim: This would allow Nintendo to continue to support the Wii U brand and offer those few hold outs that are waiting for a price drop to jump in at a discounted price. $199.99 preloaded with "Select Nintendo games" I'd put this at about 35%.
I'm not sure Nintendo would deem a digital only slim model viable or necessary. That's a lot of time, effort, and money to try to eek out some extra sales of a faltering product.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Evan_B on August 22, 2015, 01:19:55 PM
Dropping physical media would be a retail suicide, as far as I'm concerned. Something Microsoft and Sony actually do well is dominate shelf space in stores like GameStop while Wii U takes up a sad corner. It would only be another nail in the coffin.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Shaymin on August 22, 2015, 01:34:42 PM
This is a reminder that patents could mean anything or nothing, and that they are terribly vague because patent law is messed up.

So patents are smoke and mirrors... until they aren't!

This.

The next console is going to have some sort of support for physical media, whether it's BluRays, carts or frickin' SD cards.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on August 22, 2015, 03:13:00 PM
I don't imagine Nintendo is dropping physical media for the NX. I speculate that future support for the Wii U will be significantly scaled down. Also this might be the console they are preparing for the new Chinese market.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Stratos on August 22, 2015, 03:20:58 PM
"Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix" makes me worry it will be like EA's "unprecedented partnership" this gen.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 22, 2015, 05:33:57 PM
"Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix" makes me worry it will be like EA's "unprecedented partnership" this gen.

Well it wouldn't be unprecedented then.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Shaymin on August 22, 2015, 05:57:17 PM
Square supporting a Nintendo console to the point they're dropping numbered Final Fantasies on it as a second choice behind PlayStation? That's the unprecedented part.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Parallax Scroll on August 22, 2015, 05:59:34 PM
I do not believe in the hybrid theory because it goes against what Iwata had consistently said in 2013 and 2014.

Quote
As you might already know from some newspaper reports, we will reorganize our development divisions next month for the first time in nine years. Two divisions which have independently developed handheld devices and home consoles will be united to form the Integrated Research & Development Division, which will be headed by Genyo Takeda, Senior Managing Director.
Last year we also started a project to integrate the architecture for our future platforms. What we mean by integrating platforms is not integrating handhelds devices and home consoles to make only one machine. What we are aiming at is to integrate the architecture to form a common basis for software development so that we can make software assets more transferrable, and operating systems and their build-in applications more portable, regardless of form factor or performance of each platform. They will also work to avoid software lineup shortages or software development delays which tend to happen just after the launch of new hardware.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/05.html (http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library/events/130131/05.html)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 22, 2015, 06:14:54 PM
Beyond that, Nintendo at least tries to make money from hardware sales, which means they'd very much prefer to sell you two pieces of hardware than just the one.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Parallax Scroll on August 22, 2015, 06:51:37 PM
Yep^
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on August 22, 2015, 07:03:33 PM
Beyond that, Nintendo at least tries to make money from hardware sales, which means they'd very much prefer to sell you two pieces of hardware than just the one.

There is still two hardware pieces in my theory. The NX I and and NX II. The I will be a self-sufficient portable device capable of working independent of the NX II. The II is a docking station that "unlocks" the beta code (second basic program) and creates the scalable assets needed for high resolutions and more complex algorithms. In theory this would be like a built in cross buy system. My theory has huge wrinkles in it but the basic premise is there. There also may be a Server/Set Top Box required for the long anticipated NINTENDO ON DEMAND STREAMING SERVICES.

Believe you me, Nintendo has plenty of hardware to sell us.  Also I predicted Amiibo (not in name but in design and execution over a year before official announcement... there is a natural progression to Nintendo's thinking and I have cracked the code.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Enner on August 23, 2015, 04:18:16 AM
Dropping physical media would be a retail suicide, as far as I'm concerned. Something Microsoft and Sony actually do well is dominate shelf space in stores like GameStop while Wii U takes up a sad corner. It would only be another nail in the coffin.

Think of all that Wii U and 3DS shelf space that could be amiibo and other Nintendo merchandise! Also, new game discs are a low margin anyway, so Wal-Mart and Target probably wouldn't mind carrying less of those. And GameStop sees the writing on the wall for used game discs.

For Nintendo in particular, they have always kept the size of their games very small relative to their peers. Only games like Bayonetta 2, Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, and Xenoblade Chronicles X break the 10/20 GB barrier.

This has me revisiting a daft idea I had that is a compromise between the all-digital future and retail stores. The idea is kiosks in the store that locally stored the data for a lot of video games. You can purchase games from the kiosk, have it loaded on to your special cartridge, USB stick, or (maybe special?) SD card faster than it would take to download it, and then bring that data back home to your system. Of course, there will be redundancies to ensure the purchase is tied to your Nintendo account; the locally stored data is for those with poor (or maybe no) internet connections. These kiosks can have chain-specific sales too.

I say this is daft because there are security issues, you still have a retailer as a middle-man, you will need to train retail staff to operate and maintain the kiosk, and this process is too complex compared to buying a disc or from the eShop.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on August 23, 2015, 09:28:53 AM
This has me revisiting a daft idea I had that is a compromise between the all-digital future and retail stores. The idea is kiosks in the store that locally stored the data for a lot of video games. You can purchase games from the kiosk, have it loaded on to your special cartridge, USB stick, or (maybe special?) SD card faster than it would take to download it, and then bring that data back home to your system. Of course, there will be redundancies to ensure the purchase is tied to your Nintendo account; the locally stored data is for those with poor (or maybe no) internet connections. These kiosks can have chain-specific sales too.

I say this is daft because there are security issues, you still have a retailer as a middle-man, you will need to train retail staff to operate and maintain the kiosk, and this process is too complex compared to buying a disc or from the eShop.
I don't think that's a daft idea if only because Nintendo already tried a similar service with the iQue Player in China which was meant to curb piracy in that region (as well as circumvent the now lifted console ban). Perhaps security can be handled similarly to how eshop cards have no value until purchased. Say you buy a download card from the store employee then you go to the kiosk and insert the card like you would an ATM, it reads the barcode (so you're not actually typing anything) then a slot opens for an SD card or USB port.

The main issue I see is how long will it take to copy multiple GBs of data from a kiosk. I recently backed up a few GBs of music onto an SD card and it took 20 minutes. Synching pretty much the same data onto an iPod Touch via USB was much faster. My MacBook Pro is roughly five and a half years old. With newer tech, this may not be a problem. I'm hoping Nintendo adopts USB Type-C.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on August 23, 2015, 10:43:16 AM
No way Nintendo goes all Digital with this console, no way.


We are not (yet) in a world where all info and advertisements come from online.

Posted by: Enner

For Nintendo in particular, they have always kept the size of their games very small relative to their peers. Only games like Bayonetta 2, Super Smash Bros. for Wii U, and Xenoblade Chronicles X break the 10/20 GB barrier.


If Nintendo wants the NX to succeed they must adapt to the wants of the developers that create content. 50GB should be the standard, which poses a real problem from an all digital standpoint. There are legit Millions of DS, Wii and owners who only have DSL or less. Not a really good option for those folks who could just drive to walmart, gamestop and best buy. Hell I get pretty solid speeds in Philly and I hate having to download and wait.


Welcome Back Cartridges! My old friend, you have been missed.

Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 23, 2015, 10:49:36 AM
Yeah, designing hardware based on how Nintendo makes games and ignoring what everybody else wants is what got them into this mess in the first place. They need to make something so easy for third parties to work with that they see it as worth porting things to even if they don't expect it to sell huge. Assuming it's going to have physical media, it pretty much has to be discs to fit that criteia.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Stratos on August 23, 2015, 11:03:51 AM

This has me revisiting a daft idea I had that is a compromise between the all-digital future and retail stores. The idea is kiosks in the store that locally stored the data for a lot of video games. You can purchase games from the kiosk, have it loaded on to your special cartridge, USB stick, or (maybe special?) SD card faster than it would take to download it, and then bring that data back home to your system. Of course, there will be redundancies to ensure the purchase is tied to your Nintendo account; the locally stored data is for those with poor (or maybe no) internet connections. These kiosks can have chain-specific sales too.

I say this is daft because there are security issues, you still have a retailer as a middle-man, you will need to train retail staff to operate and maintain the kiosk, and this process is too complex compared to buying a disc or from the eShop.
I don't think that's a daft idea if only because Nintendo already tried a similar service with the iQue Player in China which was meant to curb piracy in that region (as well as circumvent the now lifted console ban). Perhaps security can be handled similarly to how eshop cards have no value until purchased. Say you buy a download card from the store employee then you go to the kiosk and insert the card like you would an ATM, it reads the barcode (so you're not actually typing anything) then a slot opens for an SD card or USB port.

The main issue I see is how long will it take to copy multiple GBs of data from a kiosk. I recently backed up a few GBs of music onto an SD card and it took 20 minutes. Synching pretty much the same data onto an iPod Touch via USB was much faster. My MacBook Pro is roughly five and a half years old. With newer tech, this may not be a problem. I'm hoping Nintendo adopts USB Type-C.

Nintendo also used the idea of special re-loadable cartridges in Japan as well with the N64DD. I'm not sure how far it was implemented since the system failed, but that was supposed to be a key concept for the system. I don't see it flying because technology is quickly passing any need for that type of system.


If they truly want to go all digital I see them still supporting retail by shipping boxes that have download codes in them, but no actual discs.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on August 23, 2015, 11:59:32 AM
Furthermore, no big retailer is going to sell hardware and accessories for a console that they can't sell games for.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 23, 2015, 12:09:49 PM
Furthermore, no big retailer is going to sell hardware and accessories for a console that they can't sell games for.

People always say this, and I really don't get the logic. New games at retail have the smallest margins of anything in the game business, whereas they could stand to make good money on hardware and especially peripherals. GameStop wouldn't like it because it would cut off the used market, but most of the big retailers either aren't in that business or treat it as a relatively minor thing.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 23, 2015, 12:23:20 PM
I will make this prediction. If the patent filing is actually telling us something, and the console actually will not use physical games, then it will run some form of Android. An extremely locked down version of Android, but it will be Android.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Stratos on August 23, 2015, 12:40:41 PM
If that leads to better support for Android phones by Nintendo (versus only supporting Apple) then I will be all for it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 23, 2015, 12:49:50 PM
That doesn't strike me as something Nintendo would want to do. They'd want something that was completely theirs.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Mop it up on August 23, 2015, 01:53:49 PM
Also this might be the console they are preparing for the new Chinese market.
That's what I was thinking. They've made something similar in the iQue Player for China.

This has me revisiting a daft idea I had that is a compromise between the all-digital future and retail stores. The idea is kiosks in the store that locally stored the data for a lot of video games. You can purchase games from the kiosk, have it loaded on to your special cartridge, USB stick, or (maybe special?) SD card faster than it would take to download it, and then bring that data back home to your system.
I don't think that's a daft idea if only because Nintendo already tried a similar service with the iQue Player in China
Nintendo have also done something similar in Japan with the rewritable cartridge called the Nintendo Power for the SNES and Game Boy. Of course, most of its games were only 1 MB or less back then...
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: MagicCow64 on August 23, 2015, 02:04:13 PM
That doesn't strike me as something Nintendo would want to do. They'd want something that was completely theirs.

I'd be inclined to think so too, but the DeNA partnership thingy is a big question mark in my mind. If it's really embedded in the new systems, I thinks it's possible DeNA would have had some stipulations about using an OS platform that would have some continuity with phones.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 23, 2015, 02:15:26 PM
Yeah, I almost added that as a caveat to my post. If they really trust DeNA to do this for them, and DeNA wants to do it that way, they might go along with it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ThePerm on August 23, 2015, 05:49:36 PM
Nintendo has an e-shop section at gamestop for classic games. Nintendo doesn't have to get rid of retail sales, they just have to get rid of discs and boxes. They could just sell cards with activation codes at the store and still occupy the same amount of retail space.

Nintendo could also sell preloaded SD cards, or non write non copy sd cards. Doesn't Nintendo already have a system in place so you cant copy your save files over and use them on a different console?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on August 23, 2015, 06:30:08 PM
Hmm, the Wii U basic was practically a disc only system without a hard drive, and then the premium was geared towards digital with it's extra storage but Nintendo being Nintendo messed it up with only 32 gigs, although the intent was there. Not really anything to do with the patent but a possibility for NX is a similar launch with one with a disc drive and then one without. They could even sell the discless system at a massive loss since all software purchases would be at full price through Nintendo rather than some middle man, and also it would cut down on preowned games sales since a lot of the user base is now exclusively digital.
How did retailers react to the PSP Go?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ThePerm on August 23, 2015, 06:44:03 PM
the only 32 gigs argument....you can just buy an sd card or usb stick and it takes care of that problem pretty quickly. These things are a very low price now.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on August 23, 2015, 06:49:39 PM
We are the 1% when it comes to Nintendo. Ask yourself  "Do I want a Nintendo system with no physical format?" Neither do I. I don't want any System without a physical format. As I've said before now is not the time for Nintendo to pioneer but reflect and adjust course.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ThePerm on August 23, 2015, 06:50:43 PM
if this was the thing Nintendo was pioneering..thats like better than other things it could pioneer

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B011MLR1RA/ref=olp_product_details?ie=UTF8&me=

is this real?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 23, 2015, 07:26:07 PM
No.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on August 23, 2015, 07:42:18 PM
the only 32 gigs argument....you can just buy an sd card or usb stick and it takes care of that problem pretty quickly. These things are a very low price now.
Well you can't store Wii U games on an SD card since it's only for Wii mode and Smash screenshots for whatever reason. And Nintendo strongly recommends against using USB sticks as storage since there are issues with how many times you can rewrite them.
Last year I managed to get a 500gb harddrive with a y power cable and a white Wii U with 4 games for just under the price of a black premium bundle. I see no noticeable difference between games on the HDD or ones on the flash memory in terms of loading, so yeah I think flash memory was a very silly idea on their part.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: nickmitch on August 23, 2015, 07:54:36 PM
I always thought it was inevitable that all video game systems would go back to cartridges.

Clearly Nintendo is with me on that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on August 24, 2015, 12:25:38 AM
Nintendo also used the idea of special re-loadable cartridges in Japan as well with the N64DD. I'm not sure how far it was implemented since the system failed, but that was supposed to be a key concept for the system. I don't see it flying because technology is quickly passing any need for that type of system.
It isn't so much the technology's existence itself than it is people's access to it. For those that do not have a fast, consistent connection, store kiosks are pretty much the only viable way to buy games on a console without physical media.
I always thought it was inevitable that all video game systems would go back to cartridges.

Clearly Nintendo is with me on that.
Yeah, I've dealt with discs due to the lack of options. My preference is cards/cartridges. A digital only future is inevitable, but I'd holding onto physical media for as long as I can. I'd be elated if Nintendo went with cards for its next home console.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on August 24, 2015, 01:13:44 PM
I won't buy an all-digital console and especially not one that uses any cloud based processing.  That goes for any company, not just Nintendo so I'm not holding them to a special standard.  I figure someday the industry will move in that direction but I'll be older and probably have less time for games anyway.  This concept is pretty similar to what MS first presented for the XB1 and it was so poorly received they completely backpedaled on it.  So Nintendo is now going to bust out concepts that were poison only a few years ago?  And again it's NINTENDO.  The guys that think voicechat is bad are going to suddenly be so competent with online gaming that they're going digital-only?  I'm not saying they won't for sure but you know they would completely **** it up.  If Nintendo is ever going to get up to speed on online stuff it will be noticeable over a period of several years.  They won't go from the clueless dipshits they are today to savvy online-only guys tomorrow.  They could try but they would fail for certain.  I don't think they have enough confidence in the online concept to even want to try that.  If anything I would expect them to continue being followers.  Online in general seems like something they never wanted to do and were more or less forced to by the market.

Yeah, designing hardware based on how Nintendo makes games and ignoring what everybody else wants is what got them into this mess in the first place. They need to make something so easy for third parties to work with that they see it as worth porting things to even if they don't expect it to sell huge. Assuming it's going to have physical media, it pretty much has to be discs to fit that criteia.

I think we're well aware of what they NEED to do but that doesn't mean they'll do it.  If anything doing some goofy Nintendo-specific thing that completely screws up third party support is what I expect.  Should they use discs?  Yes.  Will they?  Beats me.  "That's stupid" is never a valid justification for assuming Nintendo is not doing something.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: broodwars on August 24, 2015, 01:48:34 PM
I suspect the main reason Nintendo would want to go back to cartridges is that it means 3rd parties have to pay them for the only supply of the stuff. Hard to say one way or the other how I would feel about this patent being NX, especially since it's basically a glorified PSP Go. I prefer physical copies of my games where possible, but assuming the HDD size is right I'm not exactly opposed to a digital-only console. I just don't see the likes of Gamestop and Walmart stocking the thing, and bandwidth isn't really where it needs to be right now to support that kind of console.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on August 24, 2015, 02:52:11 PM
I suspect the main reason Nintendo would want to go back to cartridges is that it means 3rd parties have to pay them for the only supply of the stuff.
Nintendo gets so little support on its consoles that third parties probably aren't factoring much into such a decision. I'd say it has more to do with Nintendo not wanting to have to pay Panasonic for the disc drive and discs.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on August 24, 2015, 02:53:06 PM
I could see digital only games because Nintendo loves to try and emulate Apple. Provided the interface to download is as "friendly" or at least as familiar as Apple's is for the average consumer, I could see people being OK with it because they are already used to it. And I can see Nintendo emulating Apple on the hardware side with releasing differently positioned devices (home and handheld) with basically the same OS environment. Just like Apple does with the iPad and the iPhone/iPod.
And retailers have no issues stocking Apple devices and also the iTunes cards that folks use to buy the digital games, music and other Apps. And don't forget, retailers are loving stocking Amiibos and will also probably love stocking the Happy Home Designer cards and similar "Amiibo 2.0" products.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: broodwars on August 24, 2015, 02:59:17 PM
And retailers have no issues stocking Apple devices and also the iTunes cards that folks use to buy the digital games, music and other Apps. And don't forget, retailers are loving stocking Amiibos and will also probably love stocking the Happy Home Designer cards and similar "Amiibo 2.0" products.

Well, don't forget that Apple releases new versions of their devices every year, so retailers see a lot of new & used hardware sales from Apple. But why should Gamestop stock an NX when they can't sell Used games and Nintendo will probably only release a new hardware version every 2-5 years?

Plus, Apple's more perplexingly popular than Nintendo will likely ever be again, if we're being perfectly honest with ourselves.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on August 24, 2015, 03:51:53 PM
Target wont sell it flat out. Plus Nintendo knows that the bandwidth  infrastructure for all digital platform is not quite there yet. Also you must remember, retail space and physical media is also advertising. And lets not forget, most Apple downloads aren't near the 50GB mark and that's the future if Nintendo wants 3party support. DLC is one thing.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on August 24, 2015, 05:36:52 PM
No one ever sold used Mac software, at least not at a level where their business model pretty much revolves around it.  That's a big difference between Apple and Nintendo.  Unsurprisingly I didn't see record stores where their whole business was selling CDs pushing the **** out of the iPod like the general electronics stores were.

Thinking about it, Nintendo games rarely drop in price so I wouldn't be surprised if for GameStop used Nintendo games probably sell pretty well, at least if you take into account the smaller userbase.  I'm not going to bother to buy a game that it's in the Wal-Mart discount bin used but Nintendo games are practically never in there.  You want a cheaper Mario Kart you get it used.  When the Wii was hot GameStop probably made a killing on parents looking for used first party titles.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Louieturkey on August 24, 2015, 05:40:35 PM
Where do you get the idea that Target won't sell it?  Target sells (or at least sold) Kindles and they are digital only.  They also sell iPads.  Those don't have physical media either.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on August 24, 2015, 05:50:33 PM
Yeah, if anybody's going to refuse to stock it it'd be GameStop, as it'd kill used games. Even then, I doubt they would. No games means it wouldn't take much shelf space to sell it, so as long as the margins on the hardware and accessories are decent I think they'd carry it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on August 24, 2015, 07:20:39 PM
Target can be quite petty when it comes to these things. While its not the same thing, When Target was left out on the Beyoncé album that iTunes had first, they refused to sell it at all. Walmart stop selling the kindle... because of "reasons". My point (if there is such a thing) Retailers matter in media until the day the don't, and I don't see that day coming before Nintendo releases the NX.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on August 24, 2015, 07:23:58 PM
I presume Walmart stopped selling the Kindle for the same reason Target stopped selling it: Kindle is owned by Amazon, a direct competitor. People treat brick and mortar stores like Amazon showrooms then buy it for cheaper online.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ThePerm on August 24, 2015, 07:49:09 PM
Target sold Ouyas.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: broodwars on August 24, 2015, 07:55:54 PM
Bear in mind that Walmart sells used games now, as does Best Buy. I can't see either being happy stocking NX like this, though Best Buy might be happy just getting people in the door these days.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: nickmitch on August 24, 2015, 08:43:29 PM
Target can be quite petty when it comes to these things. While its not the same thing, When Target was left out on the Beyoncé album that iTunes had first, they refused to sell it at all. Walmart stop selling the kindle... because of "reasons". My point (if there is such a thing) Retailers matter in media until the day the don't, and I don't see that day coming before Nintendo releases the NX.

Target has a policy where they don't sell albums was were initially released digitally.  It wasn't anything personal against Beyonce.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on August 24, 2015, 10:14:58 PM

Target has a policy where they don't sell albums was were initially released digitally.  It wasn't anything personal against Beyonce.


That fine, but the point remains that Target has had anti-digital tendencies and there has been push back from retailers on digitals since the fall of Tower Records. They gain nothing from it, especially when the ps4 is selling like hotcakes. Unless the NX is some amazing new tech, (HD.AR) or the likes, big box stores have virtually nothing to gain.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: nickmitch on August 24, 2015, 10:29:11 PM
That's a good point.  But Target does sell a whole host of Apple products that digital only.

Retailers can still profit on the hardware and accessories sales.  Plus, there's value to having the foot traffic in the stores.

Not everything sold at a store is sold for a profit.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on August 24, 2015, 10:59:10 PM
Target sold Ouyas.

Bingo. Target would sell a digital-only Nintendo console. Nintendo isn't going to make one though.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Soren on August 25, 2015, 12:27:32 AM
It's not digital-only. It's not a hybrid. Great last 2 pages.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Stogi on August 25, 2015, 11:19:05 AM
Looking at the patent I really think this is just a new system with a 'GBA player' built-in. The new console and the handheld might share the same media, but you won't be able to play a console game on your handheld.It does, however, offer developers the chance to easily port between both.

So when you come home, if you want to the continue the game you were playing on the train, you can plug it in to the console. And if you want to play your eshop game on the go, you could pay a small fee to do so.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on August 25, 2015, 11:34:28 AM
And lets not forget, most Apple downloads aren't near the 50GB mark and that's the future if Nintendo wants 3party support.
This is a very good point. In fact, pretty much all "Nintendo Retail" and third-party "retail" games (as opposed to "smaller" indie or e-shop games) are in the order of GBs now, aren't they? That is the exception for things downloaded to Apple devices, right?

Unless the NX is some amazing new tech, (HD.AR) or the likes ...
Reading that quickly I saw "(HD.AR)" as saying "hardee har har", as in you commenting on the unlikeliness of Nintendo ever having amazing new tech. :)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BlkPaladin on August 25, 2015, 12:40:46 PM
Well Nintendo has just got another US patent, this time for a achievement system/game recording. Though it has a slight chance of being retrofitted for the 3DS and Wii U, we will probably see it on the NX.
http://mynintendonews.com/2015/08/24/nintendo-has-registered-achievement-sharing-with-recording-patent/
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on August 25, 2015, 12:49:22 PM
Well Nintendo has just got another US patent, this time for a achievement system/game recording. Though it has a slight chance of being retrofitted for the 3DS and Wii U, we will probably see it on the NX.
http://mynintendonews.com/2015/08/24/nintendo-has-registered-achievement-sharing-with-recording-patent/ (http://mynintendonews.com/2015/08/24/nintendo-has-registered-achievement-sharing-with-recording-patent/)
That patent is for NES remix 2, knowing Nintendo I doubt they will ever really use it again.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Soren on September 01, 2015, 09:54:57 AM
Just to add a little more fuel to the fire:

http://www.amazon.com/b/ref=vg_homepage_quicklinks_nintendodigital?ie=UTF8&node=12597678011&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=merchandised-search-leftnav&pf_rd_r=0YSMFKQ3P9BDRZEVQHKM&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=2187870802&pf_rd_i=468642

Amazon is now offering direct digital downloads for Wii U and 3DS. You buy it from Amazon, enter your NNID and the code auto populates. You click redeem and it gets sent directly to your device. Who's to say Nintendo isn't working on this kind of service with other retailers?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: broodwars on September 01, 2015, 11:55:48 AM
Well Nintendo has just got another US patent, this time for a achievement system/game recording. Though it has a slight chance of being retrofitted for the 3DS and Wii U, we will probably see it on the NX.
http://mynintendonews.com/2015/08/24/nintendo-has-registered-achievement-sharing-with-recording-patent/ (http://mynintendonews.com/2015/08/24/nintendo-has-registered-achievement-sharing-with-recording-patent/)

Is that really something they can patent considering Sony already does that with the PS4?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Parallax Scroll on September 03, 2015, 05:52:50 PM

This doesn't even qualify as rumor, but on NeoGAF a member posted information about NX, originally in Italian, from someone who says he has sources inside NCL. Very easily could've been completely fabricated. That said, an interesting read:


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=177463814&postcount=2847


Quote
- He's under strict NDA with Nintendo Japan


- Informations are from march 2015, with some updates from june-july


- He received a bunch of patents (some of them are publics now), info about what Nintendo is planning and a list of games potentially in development (some of them may or may not have been cancelled), third parties included


- NX is a platform, not tied with a single device


- Wii U is still in the picture thanks to good software results for games like Splatoon, will still be the main home console in 2016


- 3DS is a bit old, they're planning of replacing it. Some games will still come out on it, but big projects are being moved on portable NX


- With NX, Nintendo wants to create a platform where they can develop software for multiple devices with ease, from the home console to the portable to smartphone and tablets. They'll have a big catalogue available for multiple platforms, with cross buy, cross saves and cross play, similar to what Microsoft is doing with Xbox One and PC thanks to Windows 10 (that allows to play many Xbox games on PC, which is also getting a bunch of ports from Xbone). Each platform will still have exclusive games


- NNID is tied to the single device, but it will allow to share details between platforms, like friend list, contents, local coop games, etc. Thanks to the new membership program (the successor of Club Nintendo), we'll benefit from the new Nintendo policies in terms of rewards


- They'll show the portable in spring 2016, will be out for the end of the year or spring 2017 max. Specs will be higher than PS Vita but nothing mindblowing, screen resolution should be 540p, considering 720p if costs go down. BC with 3DS was problematic


- Wii U successor will not have an optical drive, which will be optional. It will sync with the portable (not obligatory). Specs won't be super high, but close to PS4/X1 (doesn't know how much, like with the portable this is still subject to change anyway). Cross games will look better on the home


- Nintendo is focusing a lot on the anti-piracy system


- Big focus on the OS as well. They hired people that worked for Google on Android, the guys who worked on the Gamecube OS and Wii U browser are there too. Optimized versions of the same OS for every NX platform (think, again, W10), each with its set of specific functions. Updates will come out at the same time, they're focusing on making the OS blazing fast on every platform


- The home console can connect with the portable to send to it its own version of the games you buy, will use the same tech as the Wii U-Wii U Gamepad streaming to do that, or the internet connection


- The home will have bc with the Wii U. Gamepad should be compatible as a controller, considering selling it standalone. Can connect with the portable for offtv and bc. WiiMote compatibility is being considered too. As for support, since the new home won't have an optical drive, they're considering an external one. Also being considered NNID/eShop bc for titles bought on the eShop. Seems they're considering digital games sharing too, but this bit is not perfectly clear


- The portable will have its own internal memory, which will be expandable


- There will be a complete overhaul of online infrastructures, but Nintendo is determined to hold successful operations as Miiverse, extending it even further and making it a central hub for communications by developers and a meeting place for players. It will be even more interactive with the ability to upload videos and screenshots in an integrated system and not dependent on the game


- Voice chat and interactions between users will be revisited too, much will depend on the users age though, to protect the minors


- The home will be out 6-12 months after the portable, creating the "NX system" that will allow Nintendo to better use their resources in games development


- They approached third parties during E3. Capcom, Square-Enix, Ubisoft and Electronic Arts already have devkits. Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Sonic, F-Zero and Metroid are in development, doesn't know if these are main episodes or spin offs. Zelda is currently a Wii U only title due to high development costs, but they can reconsider to have another big game at NX launch


- Prices will be low, 200-300€ (for the home?), considering a bundle with both for no more than 500€


- Many of these things will be discussed in future Nintendo Directs, which will have a different host in every market if Nintendo can't find a new CEO by october


- A new 3D Mario will be shown, along with a new Zelda trailer. Retro moved their project on NX, will not be unveiled before 10-18 months


- They'll talk about a new "Club Nintendo", which will be in full function with NX


- Considering making agreements with phone carriers in order to better manage applications like Miiverse, Club Nintendo and the ability to purchase software by phone. Some of these will be out by March 2016


- Is everything set yet? Yes, but with Nintendo you'll never know. If he has updates he will share them with us.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 03, 2015, 06:42:11 PM
I'm not really digging that rumoured design.  It's actually the lack of an optical drive that really turns me off.  If I can't do physical media I won't buy it.  The rumour says it optional so can you buy an external drive?  Doesn't matter anyway.  If that's an optional accessory then most games won't support it.  I want it standard so that the big games pretty much HAVE to have a physical release and it will be indie and niche titles that don't, like we have now.

If Nintendo releases the handheld NX first then the console NX is not going to sell worth a ****.  The sheer idiocy of this company to look at an embarrassing disaster like the Wii U and think "we'll replace THAT one second" just drives me up the wall.  So there will be exclusives but that's just going to make the two systems only sort of necessary.  Nintendo typically has enough exclusive to their handhelds and consoles that it is worth it to own both.  But if it's just a little handful of exclusives for each with most of the content being for both then it isn't really going to be worth the cost to own both.  People will pick one and most of them will pick the handheld because they trust Nintendo handhelds and the handheld is coming FIRST so any killer app will sell handhelds but will be old news if it shows up on the console a year later.  The console should come first and should come out next year.  You want your best titles to have a period of console exclusivity to encourage its sales as the handheld will sell itself to the market that likes handheld games.  "Console gaming on the go" is a selling point, "handheld gaming on your TV" is not.

The rumour sounds plausible (usually they throw in ridiculous over-the-top wish fulfilment stuff but this doesn't have that) but then most of it sounds like stuff that's already been rumoured or is a logical conclusion based on the existing rumours.  So it might be someone that isn't a moron creating a credible forgery.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2015, 07:14:13 PM
Console gaming on the go" is a selling point, "handheld gaming on your TV" is not.

Oh really?

*Metaphorically glances at the Super Gameboy, the GBA & DS games on the Wii U VC, and the copy of Danganronpa: Another Episode - Ultra Despair Girls he's currently playing on his Vita TV.*
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on September 03, 2015, 07:22:01 PM
That sounds quite reasonable as far as rumours go. However one thing I just can't get my head around is the lack of an optical disc drive, just why? I really don't understand, are they too expensive for Nintendo now in this authors fantasy land? Games just sell more at retail than they do on the eshop, it's just a fact. I'm sure Nintendo could give consumers the option to go digital only with a cheaper sku, but to force people to get N or get out just seems like suicide and goes against what makes Nintendo Nintendo.

The piece of evidence that damns this for me though is backwards compatibility, I would not be able to accept a reality in which Nintendo goes through the tremondous monolithic amount of effort and money to make the NX backwards compatible with Wii U, but you can only play your physical games through the use of an external optical disc drive. Hahahahahahah no.

On another note I think the hand held being replaced before the console isn't stupid. The 3ds came out basically 2 years before the Wii U came out, plans get set in motion and schedules are planned out years in advance. It's not as simple as "Oh no we need a new console, better stay up and design one up overnight!" Nintendo would have realised that the Wii U was a failure and beyond saving around December 2013, if the theoretical NX console isn't ready before the theoretical NX handheld then there is nothing they can do about that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 03, 2015, 07:54:26 PM
Console gaming on the go" is a selling point, "handheld gaming on your TV" is not.

Oh really?

*Metaphorically glances at the Super Gameboy, the GBA & DS games on the Wii U VC, and the copy of Danganronpa: Another Episode - Ultra Despair Girls he's currently playing on his Vita TV.*

I think the fact my brother just bought a Vita TV in clearance for $50 and it came with a PS3 controller demonstrates my point pretty well. :)

I like playing handhelds on my TV but I don't think it's a big selling point.  Plus there is very much the idea that handheld games are scaled down and "inferior" to console games.  So if Nintendo released some new Mario game on the NX handheld first and then a few months it showed up for the NX console launch I worry it would be seen as a handheld game and thus the NX console (already I'm seeing a major annoyance in this naming convention) is offering "inferior" handheld games while the competition has "real" console games designed specifically for consoles and not compromised in any way to accommodate handheld limitations.

Increased hardware doesn't just make the graphics prettier.  It allows for more items on screen and larger areas and more complicated AI and physics.  Go play some HD remaster of a PS2-era game and while the graphics look nice you'll notice that everything else seems somewhat subdued compared to the large open areas of current console games.  Play a game like MGS: Peace Walker on the PS3 and it is obvious that it was originally designed for the PSP.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 03, 2015, 11:09:14 PM

This doesn't even qualify as rumor,


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=177463814&postcount=2847 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=177463814&postcount=2847)


Quote

LOTS O STUFFS









This is pretty much what I've been saying. I think you can bank 75% of this as rock solid.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: azeke on September 03, 2015, 11:29:56 PM
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=177463814&postcount=2847
According to this rumour NX project is enormous, a Project Manhattan of gaming.

On hardware side Nintendo has to marry directly contradicting demands of handhelds and home console in one standard with possibility to build multiple SKU from it.

OS alone should take them many, many years. Especially if they want to make it fast from the get go.

This all sounds like a lot of wishful thinking.

Reminds me of gif from a few years back, during similar Project Cafe rumour frenzy:
(http://www.twinfinite.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Ruby-Rhod.gif)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Parallax Scroll on September 03, 2015, 11:36:33 PM
I remember that gif, it was and still is absolutely F'ing hilarious.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: broodwars on September 03, 2015, 11:44:00 PM
What's funny about that GIF now is that most of those games listed are on PS4 now. :P
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: azeke on September 03, 2015, 11:53:32 PM
^ also on my years old PC rig ;p

Gotta love x86 architecture.

I think it's crucial NX to be one as well, otherwise at this point you can kiss third parties goodbye.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Enner on September 04, 2015, 03:59:21 AM
That laundry list mostly has things that sound good and what is desired with very few potential **** ups (no disc drive, heavy focus on anti-piracy). Which means I think it is complete horseshit, because we all know there has to be at least one obvious **** up for it to be a Nintendo console.

But it is nice to dream.

The piece of evidence that damns this for me though is backwards compatibility, I would not be able to accept a reality in which Nintendo goes through the tremondous monolithic amount of effort and money to make the NX backwards compatible with Wii U, but you can only play your physical games through the use of an external optical disc drive. Hahahahahahah no.


That to me makes the most sense given Nintendo's goal of having evergreen titles. If they can't sell Wii Us, Nintendo will definitely try to sell Wii U games for backwards compatibility. Obviously, not in a way that makes sense to us, but I will be surprised if Super Mario Maker and Mario Kart 8 are unplayable on the NX Home. As for the external optical drive, Nintendo would love to sell accessories and would bundle a game/amiibo with that thing.

Lastly, the Wii U GamePad would have to be compatible somehow because of amiibo.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on September 04, 2015, 08:48:01 AM
The rumor doesn't take any major leaps of faith which makes it sound believable, but I don't know, something feels off. It seems reactionary to recent news perhaps in an attempt to seem more legitimate.
If they can't sell Wii Us, Nintendo will definitely try to sell Wii U games for backwards compatibility. Obviously, not in a way that makes sense to us, but I will be surprised if Super Mario Maker and Mario Kart 8 are unplayable on the NX Home. As for the external optical drive, Nintendo would love to sell accessories and would bundle a game/amiibo with that thing.
Considering how many people haven't played some of Wii U's best titles, I wouldn't be shocked if Nintendo releases NX versions of at least Splatoon, Mario Kart 8, and Super Smash Bros. for Wii U with all DLC included and maybe some extras (like including Ice Climbers in SSB) for $40 or $50 at/around launch. I know I'd say, "Ugh, not you too, Nintendo," then just buy the games anyway.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 04, 2015, 01:28:10 PM
When does Nintendo re-release Mario Kart and SSB games outside of the VC?  They just make a new one.  What the hell does Mario Kart 8 have that is so damn essential that Mario Kart 9 won't have.  When Nintendo did the NPC titles on the Wii they didn't have NPC SSB Melee or NPC Double Dash.

Splatoon I could see a re-release because it was something brand new for only the Wii U.  Super Mario Maker would make sense but doesn't it really need the Gamepad?  I can't see that being standard issue even if they include backwards compatibility.  Any Wii U game that gets a "remaster" would need to be something that works on a normal controller.  If you have to have the optional Gamepad to play it that's niche enough they might as well sell you the Wii U version.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on September 04, 2015, 02:43:43 PM
Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't. It isn't unreasonable to think Nintendo would consider leveraging some of Wii U's big titles to give NX more games at or around launch. Mario Kart 9 is the only sequel I could see Nintendo being ready because it released the last round of DLC a while ago, but if not, re-releasing a quality game a lot of people didn't play isn't a bad move. Just making a new Super Smash Bros. like you suggested is much easier said than done. Keep in mind Nintendo admittedly almost re-released Melee on Wii with online support had Sakurai not returned for Brawl so Nintendo at least considered a re-release. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U was in development for over two and a half years, was released incomplete, and the team is still working on content. At this rate, the soonest Nintendo could get a new Super Smash Bros out is 2018 and that's assuming Sakurai finishes DLC for the current Super Smash Bros. and immediately moves on to a sequel. He left HAL Labs because he didn't want to do that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 04, 2015, 04:44:29 PM
Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't. It isn't unreasonable to think Nintendo would consider leveraging some of Wii U's big titles to give NX more games at or around launch. Mario Kart 9 is the only sequel I could see Nintendo being ready because it released the last round of DLC a while ago, but if not, re-releasing a quality game a lot of people didn't play isn't a bad move. Just making a new Super Smash Bros. like you suggested is much easier said than done. Keep in mind Nintendo admittedly almost re-released Melee on Wii with online support had Sakurai not returned for Brawl so Nintendo at least considered a re-release. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U was in development for over two and a half years, was released incomplete, and the team is still working on content. At this rate, the soonest Nintendo could get a new Super Smash Bros out is 2018 and that's assuming Sakurai finishes DLC for the current Super Smash Bros. and immediately moves on to a sequel. He left HAL Labs because he didn't want to do that.

Yeah, it still could happen.  Though I suspect Nintendo hasn't done that sort of thing with Mario Kart and SSB because they figure having more than one title in those series on the same platform will dilute the series or hurt sales in some way.  And what could they even call a SSB port?  The game's name is literally Super Smash Bros. for Wii U!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Louieturkey on September 04, 2015, 06:14:44 PM
Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't. It isn't unreasonable to think Nintendo would consider leveraging some of Wii U's big titles to give NX more games at or around launch. Mario Kart 9 is the only sequel I could see Nintendo being ready because it released the last round of DLC a while ago, but if not, re-releasing a quality game a lot of people didn't play isn't a bad move. Just making a new Super Smash Bros. like you suggested is much easier said than done. Keep in mind Nintendo admittedly almost re-released Melee on Wii with online support had Sakurai not returned for Brawl so Nintendo at least considered a re-release. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U was in development for over two and a half years, was released incomplete, and the team is still working on content. At this rate, the soonest Nintendo could get a new Super Smash Bros out is 2018 and that's assuming Sakurai finishes DLC for the current Super Smash Bros. and immediately moves on to a sequel. He left HAL Labs because he didn't want to do that.

Yeah, it still could happen.  Though I suspect Nintendo hasn't done that sort of thing with Mario Kart and SSB because they figure having more than one title in those series on the same platform will dilute the series or hurt sales in some way.  And what could they even call a SSB port?  The game's name is literally Super Smash Bros. for Wii U!
They'll call it Super Smash Bros. For NX (or whatever the final name of the system becomes). 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 04, 2015, 07:03:04 PM
They could call it Super Smash Bros. for Wii U for NX.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 04, 2015, 07:08:14 PM
Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't. It isn't unreasonable to think Nintendo would consider leveraging some of Wii U's big titles to give NX more games at or around launch. Mario Kart 9 is the only sequel I could see Nintendo being ready because it released the last round of DLC a while ago, but if not, re-releasing a quality game a lot of people didn't play isn't a bad move. Just making a new Super Smash Bros. like you suggested is much easier said than done. Keep in mind Nintendo admittedly almost re-released Melee on Wii with online support had Sakurai not returned for Brawl so Nintendo at least considered a re-release. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U was in development for over two and a half years, was released incomplete, and the team is still working on content. At this rate, the soonest Nintendo could get a new Super Smash Bros out is 2018 and that's assuming Sakurai finishes DLC for the current Super Smash Bros. and immediately moves on to a sequel. He left HAL Labs because he didn't want to do that.

Yeah, it still could happen.  Though I suspect Nintendo hasn't done that sort of thing with Mario Kart and SSB because they figure having more than one title in those series on the same platform will dilute the series or hurt sales in some way.  And what could they even call a SSB port?  The game's name is literally Super Smash Bros. for Wii U!
They'll call it Super Smash Bros. For NX (or whatever the final name of the system becomes). 

That name is reserved for the SSB designed specifically for the NX.  Oh wait, no, they could just call that one New Super Smash Bros. for NX.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: broodwars on September 04, 2015, 07:14:07 PM
Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't. It isn't unreasonable to think Nintendo would consider leveraging some of Wii U's big titles to give NX more games at or around launch. Mario Kart 9 is the only sequel I could see Nintendo being ready because it released the last round of DLC a while ago, but if not, re-releasing a quality game a lot of people didn't play isn't a bad move. Just making a new Super Smash Bros. like you suggested is much easier said than done. Keep in mind Nintendo admittedly almost re-released Melee on Wii with online support had Sakurai not returned for Brawl so Nintendo at least considered a re-release. Super Smash Bros. for Wii U was in development for over two and a half years, was released incomplete, and the team is still working on content. At this rate, the soonest Nintendo could get a new Super Smash Bros out is 2018 and that's assuming Sakurai finishes DLC for the current Super Smash Bros. and immediately moves on to a sequel. He left HAL Labs because he didn't want to do that.

Yeah, it still could happen.  Though I suspect Nintendo hasn't done that sort of thing with Mario Kart and SSB because they figure having more than one title in those series on the same platform will dilute the series or hurt sales in some way.  And what could they even call a SSB port?  The game's name is literally Super Smash Bros. for Wii U!
They'll call it Super Smash Bros. For NX (or whatever the final name of the system becomes). 

That name is reserved for the SSB designed specifically for the NX.  Oh wait, no, they could just call that one New Super Smash Bros. for NX.

Following the tradition of stupid Japanese names (seriously, you should see how much of their anime follows this format), "Super Smash Bros.: The NX"
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Evan_B on September 04, 2015, 08:50:15 PM
What if Super Smash Bros. For Wii U will be THE last Smash Bros, and they'll just port it to each new system updating modes and DLC characters, renaming it for the next platform?

I'm just screwing around.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 04, 2015, 09:04:46 PM
Stop this madness ....besides we all know that "for Wii U" is just a pun on 4.


Behold SUPER SMASH BROTHERS 4NX!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: broodwars on September 04, 2015, 09:28:48 PM
Stop this madness ....besides we all know that "for Wii U" is just a pun on 4.


Behold SUPER SMASH BROTHERS 4NX!

No, it's SUPER SMASH BROTHER5 :P
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ShyGuy on September 04, 2015, 09:44:24 PM
Too Sm5sh Too 4urious
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Caterkiller on September 09, 2015, 12:12:07 PM
Too Sm5sh Too 4urious

Ahahahaha! This guy!

Ever since the ballot was announced I figured we would be getting SUPER Super Smash Bros NX Turbo Alpha & Knuckles. These 2 games started work in March of 2012! 2012! Both games are released and work will not finish until early 2016 at the earliest! If the ballot ends in October and they haven't decided everyone they are choosing yet it will take at least 6 months to finish all that up. (Honestly I'm certain they knew exactly who they would add 2 months after the ballot opened)

Still that is a ton work for the both games but especially the HD version that probably didn't get nearly as much sales as it deserved.

Remember that Smash 6 jobs listing that listed before the games even released? I have a good feeling that was for the DLC right now as well as getting ready for the super short Wii U life cycle. The massive amount of work that went into this game will be ported over to the NX. It will be the deluxe edition. All stages from both versions, a few new stages, Ice Climbers, 5-10 brand new characters, a few new modes, some new music, and all the DLC we have now right out of the box.

I just feel like too much work went into these games(and has yet to finish) to move on to a brand new Smash within the next 2 or 3 years.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ymeegod on September 09, 2015, 04:53:42 PM
Still believe the NX is a portable system.  The 3DS lineup (2016) is pretty damn sparse (one paper Mario game, an Zelda port, and the late translation Fire Emblem) which usually means Nintendo's gearing up for a change. 

Specs, I would place an portable system close to the power of the PS3/WIIU and top res to be no more than 720P. What's going be new--GPS, and maybe a phone contract service plan. 

Price point, $250 with one game and 16GB card.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 09, 2015, 10:46:14 PM
Still believe the NX is a portable system.  The 3DS lineup (2016) is pretty damn sparse (one paper Mario game, an Zelda port, and the late translation Fire Emblem) which usually means Nintendo's gearing up for a change. 

Specs, I would place an portable system close to the power of the PS3/WIIU and top res to be no more than 720P. What's going be new--GPS, and maybe a phone contract service plan. 

Price point, $250 with one game and 16GB card.

It most definitely is a handheld and it will be released next year,  however what s becoming increasingly more obvious is NX is more Nintendo's iOS than the name of a console. I'm starting to think that the naming convention of both devices will be the same.  EX. Handheld = DSX,  Console =NEX


Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Shaymin on September 09, 2015, 10:56:40 PM
Don't forget the 2016 Game of the Year (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/game/40470/metroid-prime-federation-force-nintendo-3ds) and the inevitable anniversary Pokemon game, plus there's always a shock localization or two.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Soren on September 10, 2015, 09:45:18 AM
Localizing Rhythm Heaven The Best will not be a shock...I hope...
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 10, 2015, 01:05:04 PM
Replacing the successful system first while leaving the unsuccessful one to fester for another year is stupid... so I'm starting to become convinced that that IS Nintendo's course of action.  The best way to predict Nintendo is to think of what you would very specifically NOT do if you were calling the shots.

What happens if their next handheld for whatever reason struggles?  Remember how the 3DS initially didn't do to well.  So imagine that occurring while the Wii U struggles for another year.  What kind of profits does Nintendo show for that year?

It seems clear that there is a unified strategy for both platforms this next time around.  If the first one fails they likely will need to rework the other one to avoid the same fate.  What if the NX concept has some key feature that is a complete disaster?  If the handheld introduces the concept first and it bombs then they don't have anything solid to fall back on.  If they did the console first and it bombed they could hang on with the 3DS for a bit while they rethink their strategy.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 10, 2015, 08:20:43 PM
The rumor that it is a platform and not a console could mean that they could update firmware to make the Wii U compatible or the 3DS compatible.  Let's say they update the handheld first.  The new handheld is around as powerful as the Wii U, however, the screen is smaller and the OS is crazy efficient, so that the CPU and RAM usage is better.  Now imagine if Nintendo do this and then upgrade the Wii U allowing the new NX platform/OS to be installed on the current Wii U while making memory usage more efficient and adding the immediate benefit of cross platform compatibility using the new handheld has a secondary tablet controller, adding system wide voice chat in the OS so that it is compatible with all games and much more...while still being able to play Wii U games.  I believe all this is possible.  That would give Nintendo a chance to have another year with Wii U on the market with some final games being released on the system.  It gives Nintendo a year for the new handheld to be out, and for Nintendo to update and fix any unforeseen problems with the new OS before the big console release.  Then in 2017, Nintendo can release a new console...it will be affordable but powerful, capable of playing Wii U games, the new portable games, and finally the new console games.     
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 10, 2015, 08:50:20 PM
The rumor that it is a platform and not a console could mean that they could update firmware to make the Wii U compatible or the 3DS compatible.  Let's say they update the handheld first.  The new handheld is around as powerful as the Wii U, however, the screen is smaller and the OS is crazy efficient, so that the CPU and RAM usage is better.  Now imagine if Nintendo do this and then upgrade the Wii U allowing the new NX platform/OS to be installed on the current Wii U while making memory usage more efficient and adding the immediate benefit of cross platform compatibility using the new handheld has a secondary tablet controller, adding system wide voice chat in the OS so that it is compatible with all games and much more...while still being able to play Wii U games.  I believe all this is possible.  That would give Nintendo a chance to have another year with Wii U on the market with some final games being released on the system.  It gives Nintendo a year for the new handheld to be out, and for Nintendo to update and fix any unforeseen problems with the new OS before the big console release.  Then in 2017, Nintendo can release a new console...it will be affordable but powerful, capable of playing Wii U games, the new portable games, and finally the new console games.   




Very solid. Introduce a Brand New OS that can be scaled to current working tech. Seems difficult but very plausible. Nintendo seems to believe in the "tech" of the Wii U (Maybe to a fault) and if this is indeed possible, it would be very "Apple" like. Including old hardware in new tech is a very "blue ocean" type strategy. Building the "NX" brand to include multiple devices is a dangerous but logical step,
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 10, 2015, 08:56:31 PM
Also, if NX has a monthly streaming service that can be a Netflix meets the shop and that service is scalable to all NX devices...well, that will be an interesting day.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 10, 2015, 09:08:15 PM
They have completely different hardware architecture, that would not work unless there was some (seriously performance degrading) CPU emulation going on. The OS doesn't matter. A program that runs on Red Hat on an x86 is not going to run Red Hat on a PS3 unless it's recompiled for the Cell processor. Even if this was possible, then the new OS would still have to be compatible with all preexisting games and apps on both systems (and the old DS). This would also be a terrible idea on its own in general. A new console family with a new OS and similar architecture would be great.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 10, 2015, 10:06:21 PM
They have completely different hardware architecture, that would not work unless there was some (seriously performance degrading) CPU emulation going on.




What has different architecture? Wii U and 3DS, or the 2 NX platforms? I can understand discounting the 3DS in the NX equation, adding BC to the next handheld can be added through a different method. However I firmly believe the Wii U could be added to the  "NX" platform. Most rumors point to the console being a "4k WiiU" (not in terms of output but an extension of existing tech) It could absolutely be done.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 10, 2015, 10:33:28 PM
I guess I misread what Spak-Spang was saying. I read it as a new OS for the 3DS *and* the Wii U as being what NX will be. But to answer the question, Wii U and 3DS have completely different architecture. Sure if they made a new console that had similar architecture as the Wii U, then they could do an OS upgrade on the Wii U (or just do the same OS with a different look on the new console) to make games compatible with both consoles, but that seems extremely unlikely. Sure that would be possible, but the new console would either have to be yet anther extension of the tired GameCube architecture, or again, CPU emulation on the new console. After all, that's basically what they did with the GameCube, Wii, and Wii U, as well as the DS and 3DS (same hardware architecture, not emulation).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 11, 2015, 12:59:07 PM
Well Nintendo can stick with the Cube architecture which benefits literally themselves alone and then the third party support can continue to be virtually non-existent or they can go with x86 architecture and stand a chance of getting including in multiplatform development.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 11, 2015, 01:02:33 PM
That was my point. I imagine AMD is going to cut Nintendo off at this point though, unless they go with x86-64 in their next console. I think Nintendo would be wise to partner with Intel and/or Nvidia on their next console.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 11, 2015, 08:43:27 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the Xbox360 based on the PowerPC and the Xbox One based on x86?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 11, 2015, 10:11:19 PM
Yes, and the original Xbox is x86, which is why there was originally no BC on the XBone, and very limited BC on the 360, and the reason there is no BC on the PS4 (PSX, PS2, PS3 are all PowerPC, PS4 is x86).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 11, 2015, 10:47:57 PM
So if  Microsoft can have BC on 360 to ONE whats to say Nintendo can't have BC on Wii U to NX(HOME) even if they change to an x86 platform...which I agree they should really consider.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 13, 2015, 03:41:37 PM
I didn't say they couldn't have it, it would just be difficult. The NX console would also have to either support the Wii U Gamepad, or have a gamepad nearly identical to it that uses the same protocols. It's probably not a very good idea to build upon the Wii U, after all, the userbase is pretty low, so limiting your system architecture, or spending the resources on allowing BC probably wouldn't be worth the effort. Wii U is a Nintendo-base user console, so they'll mostly be sold on the next console already.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 13, 2015, 04:30:39 PM
I didn't say they couldn't have it, it would just be difficult. The NX console would also have to either support the Wii U Gamepad, or have a gamepad nearly identical to it that uses the same protocols. It's probably not a very good idea to build upon the Wii U, after all, the userbase is pretty low, so limiting your system architecture, or spending the resources on allowing BC probably wouldn't be worth the effort. Wii U is a Nintendo-base user console, so they'll mostly be sold on the next console already.


Gotcha. I do think Nintendo will build on what they have with the Wii U, including the Gamepad. With that being said I think the NX will not require the Gamepad and also provide an improved HD option. The tech used in the GamePad isn't a problem as far as compatibly. I believe (as well as Nintendo) that the Wii U's failure was not due to tech for a either or standpoint (x86, AMD. PowerPc) but from a lack of robustness of that tech (lack of usable ram and OS) and software that shows the point


But for the sake of arguments, lets say Nintendo goes with IBM one more time, the benefits of that decision based merely on a technical standpoint and not looking at what the competition does could be quite nice. Graphically you could achieve similar results to the PS4/XBONE and even mid range alienware alpha with cheaper components and still keep your BC since the that chipset requires less robust RAM. (Still would require 4GB DDR5 dedicated to the CPU/GPU). Not sure about the NX Handheld and that makes me worry about how the 2 will interact





Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 13, 2015, 04:41:20 PM
The new system really needs to be x86 to have any hope of third party support. Whatever benefits there might be to sticking with the same architecture pale in comparison to what they'd stand to lose.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ShyGuy on September 13, 2015, 04:43:14 PM
x86 is holding technology back as a whole.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 13, 2015, 04:48:27 PM
That's true in some respects, but in terms of gaming that's the standard right now and developers aren't going to go out of their way to support Nintendo consoles given their historically weak third party sales, so they need to accommodate them.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: MagicCow64 on September 13, 2015, 07:44:50 PM
Isn't there some emerging legal issue regarding the patents or somesuch behind x86 that's going to potentially cause a big shift away from it as a PC standard?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Enner on September 14, 2015, 02:52:28 AM
Hey, who knows. Maybe the NX consoles will be powered by ARM architecture.

(DISTANT SCREAMING)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 14, 2015, 03:22:45 AM
Hey, who knows. Maybe the NX consoles will be powered by ARM architecture.

(DISTANT SCREAMING)

If they were going to insist on doing something other than x86 for some insane reason, that'd at least be a better choice than iterating on the GameCube a third time.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 14, 2015, 11:01:40 AM

If they were going to insist on doing something other than x86 for some insane reason, that'd at least be a better choice than iterating on the GameCube a third time.






That is crazy  talk my friend. You want 3rd party support form the mobile void? Maybe NX Handheld but no way in hell for the Home Console!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ThePerm on September 14, 2015, 03:12:30 PM
this is all crazy talk. The cpu type wont matter much in this upcoming generation. If NX can manage to have better graphics than ps3 and xboxone then it will be fine. If not, than no 3rd party support.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 14, 2015, 03:42:54 PM
I think the real important thing is that some very specific effort is made to try to win third parties back.  They should be acknowledging that they have completely fucked that up over the last few generations and that it should be the top priority to fix that.  With the Wii U it comes across like they just designed the thing primarily for their own personal needs and if third parties could shoehorn in, great.  They stand a chance to improve it if they actually make some real effort to do so.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 14, 2015, 04:06:50 PM
With the Wii U it comes across like they just designed the thing primarily for their own personal needs and if third parties could shoehorn in, great. 


Yup. They built a "My first HD console." And this is coming from a staunch Wii U supporter. They took such a "good enough" approach that by the time they figured out the tech, It was already 3 years outta date. With that being said, IAN GO BUY A WII U NOW!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Stratos on September 14, 2015, 04:42:30 PM
Agreed. There are enough games on the system to justify the purchase. And since it is in a poor sales position a lot of the best games are heavily discounted if you look in the right places.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ThePerm on September 15, 2015, 04:26:57 AM
Maybe this is what NX is? NX could be basically a ps4 equivalent powered system with a mobile controller. The controller when away from the system can play games. The controller uses SD cards and games can be transferred from console to controller. When playing games on the controller the graphics are downgraded to about Ouya/WiiU quality. Price $500

Basically what would happen if you bought an upgraded DS and Wii U system, but they're just bundled together and the games work on both systems.

Also new advantages would be...multiscreen play, more co-op modes, no worry about reach for netflix. The thing has a wifi connection too.

this works into the nx operating thing because of scalable games.   NX home, NX mobile. They could sale the NX mobile separately to people who don't want the console.

Also gives Nintendo a chance to get into the mobile market(phones not this thing) and not feel guilty for abandoning its cash cow.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 15, 2015, 08:55:00 AM
Maybe this is what NX is? NX could be basically a ps4 equivalent powered system with a mobile controller. The controller when away from the system can play games. The controller uses SD cards and games can be transferred from console to controller. When playing games on the controller the graphics are downgraded to about Ouya/WiiU quality. Price $500

Basically what would happen if you bought an upgraded DS and Wii U system, but they're just bundled together and the games work on both systems.

Also new advantages would be...multiscreen play, more co-op modes, no worry about reach for netflix. The thing has a wifi connection too.

this works into the nx operating thing because of scalable games.   NX home, NX mobile. They could sale the NX mobile separately to people who don't want the console.

Also gives Nintendo a chance to get into the mobile market(phones not this thing) and not feel guilty for abandoning its cash cow.




Yup! Just add a switch on The NX II to switch from Handheld mode to controller mode and we're in business. (switch could be virtual)


Also, I am now expecting AR HD/4k from Nintendo.


Having  HD/4K AR is a lot more feasible since what ever device is rendering the frame doesn't have to do an entire 1980 x 1080p screen.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 15, 2015, 01:24:22 PM
Perm, that is an awesome idea!  The only problem I see is the price might be too high.  Essentially they're forcing someone to buy both the handheld and console at the same time when they might just want one.  I think some ability to buy just the handheld needs to be available for parents wanting to buy their kids an inexpensive handheld for Pokémon.  The idea needs good marketing too to really make people aware of how the one system serves as a handheld and console.

Of course Nintendo is totally not going to do this.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ThePerm on September 15, 2015, 04:10:50 PM
but what if they stumbled upon it on accident? I can imagine the R&D people being like just screwing around with the WiiU remote and throwing some power in it and then being like...hey?!!

As far as the price...that's how much Xbox one cost when it came out. I don't like the price, but if I were predicting Nintendo's systems have been continually going up since Wii. They could sell the system separately for $300, but it would only come with a WiiU pro controller.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 17, 2015, 05:25:55 PM
New Rumor:


New Nintendo patent reveals shoulder button that also scroll on GamePad lite type controller.
(http://images.nintendolife.com/news/2015/09/new_nintendo_controller_patent_features_scrollable_and_clickable_shoulder_buttons/attachment/0/630x)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on September 17, 2015, 05:59:47 PM
I don't think that resembles the NX controller, It seems like it 's just a generic controller they slapped together that uses very simple geometry to get the point across. Patent illustrations are never exactly works of art and the Wii U gamepad is just very easy to draw compared to something like a pro controller.

I see this as a cool feature they could easily include in the next device without adding much to the cost, not every game would use it but it's an extra feature you can put on the box. It would integrate well with the next web browser, you could use it to zoom in and out with a camera, switch weapons quickly in a shooter and maybe even use it for Atari 2600 games for the virtual console.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 17, 2015, 06:51:34 PM
Nintendo has entered the videogame equivalent of the Tyson Zone (maybe it should be the Mr. Dream Zone).  For those unaware the Tyson Zone is when a celebrity (ie: Mike Tyson) has such a reputation for being wild and crazy and you can make up anything about them and it sounds plausible.  While Nintendo isn't quite at that stage, in regards to general competency within the videogame industry they are at that point where the most ludicrous and idiotic ideas sound plausible.

So the NX being literally just the Wii U with a new hat scrolling L&R buttons would be such an idiotic idea but because Nintendo is in the Mr. Dream Zone it sounds totally like something they would do.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: MagicCow64 on September 17, 2015, 07:21:16 PM
It seems like the patent is purely for the scrolling L and R buttons (which also include some kind of rotor mechanism for feedback), and would probably be included in both forms of NX if they're as share-y as is speculated. They just used a generic Gamepad/Gameboy type thing for the mock-up, it would be dumb to think they'd relay any more information in a patent application than they had to.

Also, it seems like a cool idea, like a less extreme version of the Steam controller.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Mop it up on September 17, 2015, 07:24:22 PM
What does it mean to "scroll" for a button? Is it like the scroll wheel on a computer mouse?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ShyGuy on September 17, 2015, 09:39:41 PM
Let's just state for the record: NINTENDO STOLE MY IDEA

You know what I would like added to a controller? A scroll wheel, like off of a mouse. Maybe put it where the Z button is. So instead of having to use the directional pad to go through inventory, you can use the much easier wheel.

And I'm sure Miyamoto would find clever new uses for it as well.
http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=9337.75 (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=9337.75)

I knew Nintendo read these forums!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Adrock on September 17, 2015, 09:55:06 PM
What does it mean to "scroll" for a button? Is it like the scroll wheel on a computer mouse?
That's what I was thinking. I'm having a hard time imagining myself using such functionality in a game as I never press down on the scroll wheel on my mouse. The problem may be that I'm comparing it to something that isn't used for gaming purposes. I held a Gamecube controller (since it has the largest L/R buttons of any Nintendo controller), and there's definitely room for additional functionality. And let's not forget that patents regularly go unused.


Companies keep trying new things with controllers, and I appreciate the effort. Sony had pressure sensitive face buttons for two generations before deciding no one actually used them.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Spak-Spang on September 17, 2015, 10:41:15 PM
I think a scroll wheel could be a very interesting mechanic for certain games.  Imagine, a realistic shooter where you focus the sniper gun.  Or you could use it to set an exact speed in racing games.   Or you could use it for precision aiming. 

Ok...I can't think of that many ideas.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ThePerm on September 17, 2015, 10:52:43 PM
I can see this happening, but think its a terrible idea.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ShyGuy on September 18, 2015, 01:14:12 AM
Blue sparks in Mario Kart just got sparkier!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 18, 2015, 01:49:07 PM
If Nintendo is making some game and they're thinking "how do we map this mechanic to the controller" and a scroll wheel seems like the way to do it then I'm all for this.  That's how the N64 analog stick came about.  I don't like this Wii/DS approach where they're thinking "what if we added.... THIS?!" and then they assume that some new controller doodad is going to inspire all sorts of great ideas but it doesn't and we just get it forced into games where it isn't needed.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 18, 2015, 03:11:04 PM
If Nintendo is making some game and they're thinking "how do we map this mechanic to the controller" and a scroll wheel seems like the way to do it then I'm all for this.  That's how the N64 analog stick came about.  I don't like this Wii/DS approach where they're thinking "what if we added.... THIS?!" and then they assume that some new controller doodad is going to inspire all sorts of great ideas but it doesn't and we just get it forced into games where it isn't needed.




To be fair, the only time their "innovation" with a controller didn't inspire was the Wii U.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 18, 2015, 03:40:16 PM
If Nintendo is making some game and they're thinking "how do we map this mechanic to the controller" and a scroll wheel seems like the way to do it then I'm all for this.  That's how the N64 analog stick came about.  I don't like this Wii/DS approach where they're thinking "what if we added.... THIS?!" and then they assume that some new controller doodad is going to inspire all sorts of great ideas but it doesn't and we just get it forced into games where it isn't needed.




To be fair, the only time their "innovation" with a controller didn't inspire was the Wii U.

And even then, it's had its positives. Super Mario Maker wouldn't work without the GamePad.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 18, 2015, 03:43:51 PM
If Nintendo is making some game and they're thinking "how do we map this mechanic to the controller" and a scroll wheel seems like the way to do it then I'm all for this.  That's how the N64 analog stick came about.  I don't like this Wii/DS approach where they're thinking "what if we added.... THIS?!" and then they assume that some new controller doodad is going to inspire all sorts of great ideas but it doesn't and we just get it forced into games where it isn't needed.




To be fair, the only time their "innovation" with a controller didn't inspire was the Wii U.

I personally disagree but no matter what there are always really lame tech demo-ish growing pains which you don't get from a natural controller evolution.  This approach is where dumb **** like blowing into the mic comes from.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: EasyCure on September 18, 2015, 04:14:25 PM
I think a scroll wheel could be a very interesting mechanic for certain games.  Imagine, a realistic shooter where you focus the sniper gun.  Or you could use it to set an exact speed in racing games.   Or you could use it for precision aiming. 

Ok...I can't think of that many ideas.

-Adjusting zoom for a scope / on-screen maps
     -Shooters: Would allow for mobility (left stick) and aiming (right stick) if zoom was controlled by the scroll wheel.
     -Open world games: Assuming there's no Gamepad like device with a screen (and even if there was) you could zoom in/out of a map without interrupting the action



-Inventory scrolling / scrolling through abilities
     -Shooters: Scroll through weapons (assuming you have scroll wheels on each shoulder, left could be for grenade types / right could be for main weapons)
     -Xenoblade: scroll through your skills while still being able to move your character
     -Zelda: do away with the point and click, scroll through your items and click to select

-Misc. Functions / "gimmicks":
     -Racers: change radio station/song, gear shift
     -Shooters: activate weapons secondary function, (very specific Western themed shooter) scroll wheel acts like spinning a revolvers cylinder
     
eh... that's all I got too
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ian Sane on September 18, 2015, 04:39:43 PM
So are these scroll wheels replacements for the L&R buttons so that the button is now a clickable scroll wheel?  I can see issues with that if scrolling the wheel and pressing it do different things.  In the middle of intense play it may be difficult to accurately press the scroll wheel without also rotating it.  If both functions are used then you might accidently trigger the scrolling when you just intend to push it.

When people are really into a game they can tend to start waving the controller around and start really jamming on the buttons.  A good controller allows for accurate input within this sort of "stressful" playing.  I can't stand motion control or touchscreens because they're too ambiguous.  Did you swing the controller to do that action or are you just having difficulty keeping the controller still?  And I'll gladly also **** on the PS2 analog face buttons which had this horrible squishy feeling which made it ambiguous if you actually pushed the button or didn't.  You don't want that.  So a scroll wheel removes the "sturdiness" of a button and introduces two ways to push one button.  That suggests input ambiguity.  No good.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 19, 2015, 12:07:44 AM
Even for you this is overly negative. It seems rather simple to make a button that is sturdy enough to not slide by mistake but still easy enough to press like a button.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: MagicCow64 on September 19, 2015, 12:44:52 AM
Also, according to the patent, it will have feedback/locking capability. It would be able to stop at the end of a scroll "list", move by itself as feedback, or even freeze altogether. So long as there are L2/R2 buttons, it seems like it could only add interesting functionality and not remove anything.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: azeke on September 19, 2015, 02:35:35 AM
People use scrollable wheel as a third button in mouse for a decade now.

In gaming included.

It will be totally fine.

Just like touchscreen and motion controls.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Enner on September 19, 2015, 03:44:11 PM
That touchscreen stuff really took off. Motion controls, not much.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on September 19, 2015, 03:50:25 PM
They just weren't capable enough. If they'd had the Motion+ tech from the beginning I think that might have gone differently.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ShyGuy on September 19, 2015, 05:05:10 PM
That touchscreen stuff really took off. Motion controls, not much.

Well, the PS3 and 360 had major addons that were inspired by motion controls. Plus motion controls seem to be playing an important part in VR controllers.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 19, 2015, 06:00:07 PM
Motion control and touch screen on the Wii/DS changed digital  media not just gaming. "everything starts somewhere"
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 19, 2015, 09:09:51 PM
The new console will have a mouse-like scroll wheel so you can fine tune just how quickly Nintendo will go out of business.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 19, 2015, 11:07:54 PM
The new console will have a mouse-like scroll wheel so you can fine tune just how quickly Nintendo will go out of business.

The Force is strong with this one.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ShyGuy on September 22, 2015, 11:24:20 PM
So there are some strong indications that the NX platform will be based on Linux.

Michael Larabel, the man behind the website and graphics testing suite Phoronix, has signed an NDA with Nintendo.
http://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/linux-graphics-x-org-drivers/opengl-vulkan-mesa-gallium3d/817222-the-platforms-initially-supporting-vulkan

Phoronix is a website devoted to Linux Hardware and you may know it as the site that broke the news that Valve was releasing Steam on Linux. Gabe Newell used Michael as a referral contact for Linux support when they ran into issues out of the gate. http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=MTA3OTY

Phoronix is a very hard core Linux techy website ran by one guy. I'm a regular visitor, and they don't video game or even mainstream electronics coverage. The only reason I can think Nintendo would have him sign an NDA is if they had been talking to him about the development side of things.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: azeke on September 22, 2015, 11:58:05 PM
I wonder how will they will be able to merge Linux's "free software" paradigm and DIY somewhat chaotic open-ness with Nintendo's wish to keep the system as closed as they can.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ShyGuy on September 23, 2015, 12:04:59 AM
I wonder how will they will be able to merge Linux's "free software" paradigm and DIY somewhat chaotic open-ness with Nintendo's wish to keep the system as closed as they can.

Well Android and ChromeOS are both Linux based and OSX was based on BSD, so I suppose it's possible.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Soren on September 23, 2015, 12:07:51 AM
Tech niche companies stick together!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 23, 2015, 01:17:17 AM
Linux = REDHAT = MARIO




So clear the whole time!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 23, 2015, 08:23:12 PM
Linux has lots of software that is not free.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 24, 2015, 05:46:06 PM
Also, my comment about the scroll wheels is not getting the respect it deserves (thank you, Nile Boogie Returns).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ceric on September 24, 2015, 09:06:33 PM
Free OS is Free OS.  I mean being an ix can get you a lot of Software.  It also makes you more vulnerable because by default there is more information out about how your system works.  *shrug* Its like a phone using Android.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 24, 2015, 09:57:24 PM
It doesn't really make you any more vulnerable, unless you intentionally disable security features like stack randomization. Right now PS4 and Xbone are the only consoles out that haven't fallen to a stack overflow vulnerability at this point (Wii U has been "hacked" recently...but no one seems to really care). Also, this Linux thing is just a rumor for now...but if Nintendo did go with some form of Linux, unless they didn't want any support, it wouldn't be free to them.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Ceric on September 24, 2015, 10:10:51 PM
Freer than writing from scratch.  Security through obscurity isn't security but it still some.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ShyGuy on September 25, 2015, 12:17:27 AM
Also, my comment about the scroll wheels is not getting the respect it deserves (thank you, Nile Boogie Returns).

You're not getting respect about scroll wheels? I posted proof that I invented the things TEN YEARS ago, and nobody has batted an eye!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: OakesJu on September 25, 2015, 12:24:54 AM

First, it shows the Samsung Galaxy s6 cover (http://www.casesam.co.uk/category-galaxy-s6-case-cover-15.html) is simply impossible. WII your game on it? On the console you lost? Not exactly. The Samsung Galaxy s6 edge cover (http://www.casesam.co.uk/category-galaxy-s6-edge-case-cover-10.html) of the screen can not be.
People will buy Nintendo Nintendo really want to buy buy Nintendo reasons.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: ThePerm on September 25, 2015, 06:37:13 AM
im confused.....
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on September 25, 2015, 07:43:36 AM
Makes sense to me - he's clarifying for people who think the function is possible. Of course you can't WII your game on the console you lost, because the rotation of the screen, no matter what you try, can not be - at least not on the consle you lost. I used to also be under the assumption that people will buy Nintendo Nintendo even if they really want to buy buy National Geographic reasons, but in reality it's because they really want to buy buy Nintendo reasons.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Unprecedented partnership with Square Enix?)
Post by: Stratos on September 25, 2015, 02:48:57 PM
Of course! I buy Nintendo brand Nintendo amiibo for Nintendo Nintendos.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CONFIRMED:You can't WII your game on it.)
Post by: ThePerm on September 26, 2015, 04:16:39 PM
http://nerdist.com/somebody-recreated-the-legend-of-zeldas-kakariko-village-in-unreal-engine-4/

again hopefully Nintendo becomes as productive as random internet people.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CONFIRMED:You can't WII your game on it.)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on September 26, 2015, 05:50:02 PM
Also, my comment about the scroll wheels is not getting the respect it deserves (thank you, Nile Boogie Returns).

You're not getting respect about scroll wheels? I posted proof that I invented the things TEN YEARS ago, and nobody has batted an eye!


Zelda TP having Forward Compatibility, Wii remote being an upside down optical mouse, Shenmue III days before E32015. All the things I predicted on this board. Prophet Confirmed!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CONFIRMED:You can't WII your game on it.)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on October 16, 2015, 10:21:49 AM

AND SO IT BEGINS...


(WALL STREET JOURNAL)




TOKYO— Nintendo Co. has begun distributing a software development kit for its new NX videogame platform, people familiar with the matter said, suggesting the company is on track to introduce the product as early as next year.The kit is used by third-party software developers to modify existing games for the platform or create new ones. Videogame console makers such as Nintendo like to have popular game titles ready when they start selling new devices.Nintendo’s current flagship products are the Wii U, a console typically used in the living room, and the portable 3DS device. Both have been out for several years, leading analysts to predict that the Kyoto-based entertainment powerhouse will move fairly swiftly to bring out the NX.“We are increasingly of the idea that Nintendo might launch the NX in 2016 because of the softness of 3DS and Wii U,” said David Gibson, an analyst at Macquarie Capital Securities.A Nintendo spokeswoman said the company plans to disclose details of NX next year.Square Enix Co. said in July that it planned to make the latest version of its blockbuster role-playing game Dragon Quest for the NX. That version, called Dragon Quest XI, is also planned for the 3DS and Sony Corp.’s PlayStation 4.The exact shape of the NX hardware isn’t yet clear. People familiar with the development plans said Nintendo would likely include both a console and at least one mobile unit that could either be used in conjunction with the console or taken on the road for separate use. They also said Nintendo would aim to put industry-leading chips in the NX devices, after criticism that the Wii U’s capabilities didn’t match those of competitors.Nintendo’s former president, Satoru Iwata, said in March that NX “is a platform dedicated for videogames.” Mr. Iwata died in July, and his post was assumed in September by Tatsumi Kimishima, a former banker who served as one of Mr. Iwata’s top lieutenants at Nintendo.Mr. Kimishima is expected to carry forward the strategy of Mr. Iwata, a legendary figure for many videogame fans. In the months before his death, Mr. Iwata laid out plans to put Nintendo characters in games for mobile devices under a partnership with DeNA Co. and made a deal with amusement park operator Universal Parks & Resorts, which is part of Comcast Corp.“Nintendo is no longer just a traditional videogame company,” said industry veteran Hirokazu Hamamura, a director at Kadokawa Dwango Corp., which publishes magazines about videogames.






Rejoice!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CONFIRMED:You can't WII your game on it.)
Post by: Evan_B on October 16, 2015, 10:49:58 AM
The end of the Wii U is upon us.

If this article is to be believed, we might see the NX rear it's head in 2016. I won't be buying it- in fact, I find it hard to believe most of this information, as it is very un characteristic of Nintendo. As it is, they have utterly failed with the Wii U and if they even dare to end it's life without a Zelda game of its own I'll be quite annoyed. Anyway, I'm interested by these comments, especially that it's believed the NX will release with some sort of portable element. I hope, for Nintendo's sake, that they can gracefully move away from Wii U and 3DS, which don't seem to be maintaining any sort of substantial presence.

Even so, I'm not going to be an early adopter for NX. Nintendo needs to prove they have a good plan moving forward, not just one that relies on Amiibo, mobile, and rehashed IPs.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CONFIRMED:You can't WII your game on it.)
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on October 16, 2015, 10:53:47 AM
As it is, they have utterly failed with the Wii U
Oh puh-leez with this. You don't wanna buy an NX? Fine. But the rhetoric, ugh.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CONFIRMED:You can't WII your game on it.)
Post by: Soren on October 16, 2015, 11:03:45 AM
If Dev kits are going out today(or close to today) to people, can that really mean the console is launching in 2016? Can you make a game for the NX in a year?

I see headlines calling it a hybrid but to me it looks like what I predicted, a dedicated handheld and a console running on the same OS.

The end of the Wii U is upon us.

...As it is, they have utterly failed with the Wii U...

Blah blah blah. Two things.

1- I'm pretty sure the Wii U's end was somewhere around Jan-Feb 2014, when it was pretty clear sales forecasts were never going to be matched and almost all third parties had abandoned plans for the console.
2- The Wii U was only a failure in a commercial sense. It was a success in terms of games released. Ever single year the Wii U had a competitive GOTY candidate. The top 15 Wii U games match well with the top 15 games released on any other console past or present.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 16, 2015, 11:10:51 AM
Make a new game no...but if it is similar enough to the other consoles or PC gaming perhaps you can modify an existing game, or game in development to play on it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CONFIRMED:You can't WII your game on it.)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on October 16, 2015, 11:51:04 AM
If Dev kits are going out today(or close to today) to people, can that really mean the console is launching in 2016? Can you make a game for the NX in a year?





I would think that you could if you moved development from Wii U to NX. Don't know why but I don't think Nintendo is moving to X86 chipset and this still a IBM chip. In that, context you could launch in 2016 summer with a decent lineup, no one expects a summer launch but in 2016 you can launch electronics basically at anytime.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Soren on October 16, 2015, 12:59:00 PM
I would think that you could if you moved development from Wii U to NX. Don't know why but I don't think Nintendo is moving to X86 chipset and this still a IBM chip. In that, context you could launch in 2016 summer with a decent lineup, no one expects a summer launch but in 2016 you can launch electronics basically at anytime.

I'm assuming 1st party devs have had kits for a while now. I'm talking more about indie devs and 3rd parties.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on October 16, 2015, 01:29:43 PM
I find it hard to believe most of this information, as it is very un characteristic of Nintendo.

If the NX is to not share the same fate as the Wii U then it needs to be uncharacteristic of Nintendo.

I like what the article is stating.  It has important stuff like comparable hardware with the competition.  If they failed on that again the NX would be DOA.

While I never had any faith in the Wii U, I felt it was doomed once Sony revealed that they weren't going to be anti-consumer with the PS4 and then MS backpedaled and followed suit with the Xbox One.  There was this hope at the time that Sony and MS were going to have anti-consumer features that would force always-online authentication and lock out used games and stuff like that and that the Wii U would benefit from being consumer-friendly.  Once that was not the case, the Wii U was finished.  All Nintendo had was an outdated console with a weird controller, no third party support, and a price that was not THAT much cheaper than the other guys.  The one hope it had was that the market would reject the new generation Sony and MS were offering and that didn't happen.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on October 16, 2015, 01:50:29 PM
Oh sure, the only comment anyone cares about in my post is how the Wii U is a complete failure- which it is. The "Games of the Year" on other consoles are in genres that the Wii U simply doesn't have. I'd be interested to hear what games you DO think are GOTY quality from the Wii U's lifespan, too- what did Wii U have in 2013? Pikmin 3? The Wonderful 101? 2014, maybe I can give you, with Bayonetta 2.

The Wii U is more than just a commercial failure. Third Party relations are no better, the library is worse (in terms of variety and value, just because you have a bunch of acceptable Nintendo titles doesn't make up for the lack of titles), and the system is overpriced and a misguided attempt to ride on the coattails of its successor without even Nintendo having a decent idea of a killer app. It will hopefully be remembered as a awkward HD growing pain.

Most importantly, it's going to be abandoned. Quickly. Which means Nintendo is screwing over the fanbase they had who actually bought into the whole thing, and would be likely to adopt a new system. What success does the Wii U have? It raised the amount of indie ports while simultaneously allowing the lowest quality games to appear there? The introduction of Amiibo? Is that really a victory? You're right, the end of the Wii U was two years ago, and that's because- not just my opinion- it didn't work. What is my opinion is that it never got a proper chance to get interesting ideas come from the hardware because it never stood one.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on October 16, 2015, 01:54:28 PM
I don't get the disbelief at this news. Is it the Nintendo using latest chipset or is it the hybrid console / Handheld  concept? Although not graphics wise but Nintendo has always been at the forefront of game technology.

Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on October 16, 2015, 02:54:59 PM
Oh sure, the only comment anyone cares about in my post is how the Wii U is a complete failure- which it is. The "Games of the Year" on other consoles are in genres that the Wii U simply doesn't have. I'd be interested to hear what games you DO think are GOTY quality from the Wii U's lifespan, too- what did Wii U have in 2013? Pikmin 3? The Wonderful 101? 2014, maybe I can give you, with Bayonetta 2.





You're right about 2013 (although 3DWorld is solid and Lego City and Wonderful 101 is outstanding). The first year of a console is never the best year. PS4 is just starting to catch Wii U in terms of software and has yet to leave it in the dust .


Star Fox Zero, Zelda U and possibly Retro's game are all Hybrid NX/U games.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on October 16, 2015, 04:57:07 PM
Star Fox and Zelda maybe, but Retro? I doubt it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Enner on October 16, 2015, 05:13:37 PM
Oh sure, the only comment anyone cares about in my post is how the Wii U is a complete failure- which it is. ...

Well, it's what you get when you aren't expressing enough happiness with your consumer purchase among those that do. :p

Anyway, all that Wall Street Journal stuff is soft confirmation on the ideas and hopes of what has been discussed previously in this thread. It sounds good.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on October 16, 2015, 06:53:44 PM
Evan, do you have a Wii U?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on October 16, 2015, 07:26:02 PM
I do. I own... Hmm. Let's see. 13 full retail games for it, and that doesn't count the 5 I've returned because I found them to be dissatisfying. I also have a number of eShop titles too, and my Wii library is quite large.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on October 16, 2015, 10:24:44 PM
OK. The reason I ask is that I assume you are more than disappointed with the Wii U (forgive me if I'm mistaken). I've never seen someone who owns a Wii U be very dissatisfied with their purchase. I like it more than most but I take issue with the idea that the system is a failure, but thats an issue for another thread.


BOT:


Nintendo Magic allows them to get "an hour out of 15 minutes" graphically (Mario Kart 8, Kirby Rainbow Curse ) I am excited to see what they can do with top notch (relatively) hardware.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on October 17, 2015, 12:46:16 AM
In some ways, I am not dissatisfied. I think there's plenty of things to love about the Wii U. But I am dissatisfied with its untapped potential.

I am not sure Nintendo will get much more out of the upgraded hardware- they've just finished their first big leap into HD and it was quite nice, but obviously time consuming. I hope they don't work themselves to death just because there's the potential to do so...
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: alegoicoe on October 17, 2015, 02:46:59 AM
I find it hard to believe most of this information, as it is very un characteristic of Nintendo.

If the NX is to not share the same fate as the Wii U then it needs to be uncharacteristic of Nintendo.

I like what the article is stating.  It has important stuff like comparable hardware with the competition.  If they failed on that again the NX would be DOA.

While I never had any faith in the Wii U, I felt it was doomed once Sony revealed that they weren't going to be anti-consumer with the PS4 and then MS backpedaled and followed suit with the Xbox One.  There was this hope at the time that Sony and MS were going to have anti-consumer features that would force always-online authentication and lock out used games and stuff like that and that the Wii U would benefit from being consumer-friendly.  Once that was not the case, the Wii U was finished.  All Nintendo had was an outdated console with a weird controller, no third party support, and a price that was not THAT much cheaper than the other guys.  The one hope it had was that the market would reject the new generation Sony and MS were offering and that didn't happen.


well said
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Fatty The Hutt on October 17, 2015, 10:00:19 AM
In some ways, I am not dissatisfied. I think there's plenty of things to love about the Wii U. But I am dissatisfied with its untapped potential.
Now this I agree with
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ThePerm on October 17, 2015, 05:37:18 PM
Speculation: Maybe the NX is an Oculus rift type device. People have been speculating and rumoring all Nintendo consoles to be Virtual reality headsets. Now is actually the time where it would be most likely. Having seen Star Wars Battlefront and Silent Hills the possibility of actual really awesome console virtual reality is possible.

An Oculus rift costs $350. A Wii U controller strapped to your face costs $90. Maybe Nintendo is one of the few companies able to get the price down.

Also note, Nintendo has been experimenting with the Wii U remote in this regard. The 3d videos, Nintendo land in some ways. The wii U already has all the tech to be a VR headset. It just isn't uncomfortably tethered to your face.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on October 17, 2015, 06:22:40 PM
The words "uncomfortably tethered to your face" don't inspire much confidence.

Virtual reality is just ta TV for your eyes only. It doesn't bring other people into the experience with you and Nintendo is about social gaming. I believe last E3 Reggie commented that it wasn't the sort of experience they thought was necessary.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on October 17, 2015, 06:36:13 PM
Speculation: Maybe the NX is an Oculus rift type device. People have been speculating and rumoring all Nintendo consoles to be Virtual reality headsets. Now is actually the time where it would be most likely. Having seen Star Wars Battlefront and Silent Hills the possibility of actual really awesome console virtual reality is possible.

An Oculus rift costs $350. A Wii U controller strapped to your face costs $90. Maybe Nintendo is one of the few companies able to get the price down.

Also note, Nintendo has been experimenting with the Wii U remote in this regard. The 3d videos, Nintendo land in some ways. The wii U already has all the tech to be a VR headset. It just isn't uncomfortably tethered to your face.




Nintendo as been anti-VR and pro-AR in the recent years. They tend to feel that AR is more socially and family friendly, while VR promotes isolation. As a father of 5, as shudder at the thought of how expensive that could be.




 4 years ago all I wanted was a Nintendo Console powerful as a PS3 with a Wii Motion plus. I got that in Wii U. But Evan_B  is absolutely right, it never reached its full potential and its a shame it didn't.  Wii U could be in my top 5 consoles all time IF Zelda U and Star Fox actually come out and are solid releases, although I don't expect both games to show up. IF NX is at least as powerful as a PS4 ( and by next year how could it not be?) with a Netflix style game streaming service and the Trojan Horse of the untapped hybrid console market, I'll be cool.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on October 17, 2015, 06:45:08 PM
The one real ace in the hole that Nintendo has left is that they're still the kings of local multiplayer. Going VR would basically kill that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on October 17, 2015, 08:52:29 PM
Here's hoping it's Star Fox that skips Wii U and not Zelda!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ThePerm on October 18, 2015, 10:58:30 PM
you could still do local multiplayer with vr. One player gets the head set, the other gets a tablet controller and a tv. Another type of asymmetric gameplay.

I prefer AR over VR.

why not include the option to buy VR headsets for the console though? The more people have them, the cheaper the price will go down. I imagine a day in the future where these vr headsets cost $60.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Soren on October 19, 2015, 12:33:09 AM
Keep Talking and Nobody Explodes is a great example of local multiplayer with VR.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on October 19, 2015, 01:54:05 AM
I imagine Nintendo'slast dance with VR didn't sit so well with them. You know, the Virtual Boy.

I think they'll include it when the tech is manageable and enjoyable. Right now, I hear too many whispers of motion sickness, high prices, and little addition to gameplay.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Enner on October 19, 2015, 04:56:43 AM
At the moment, I believe in the enthusiastic impressions of those who have tried and are eagerly anticipating VR to be genuine. Even at the base level of a change in perspective and head tracking, I can imagine the sense of immersion to be revolutionary.

I just wonder if this sense of immersion is something a lot of people will want to do on a regular basis. Or if it as excessive and impractical as a super car or a separate home theater room with a super projector and a mega sound system. That is an unfair comparison given the speculated prices of the upcoming headsets. I can't help but wonder how a VR headset will fit in to any given person's life, if at all.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: alegoicoe on October 19, 2015, 01:53:50 PM
i read some rumors over at wiiudaily that the NX could be more powerful than PS4 and Xbone, very unlikely giving Nintendo past three consoles but maybe who knows, at least the rumor is not the other way around and it was with the wii and wii u
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on October 19, 2015, 02:42:12 PM
i read some rumors over at wiiudaily that the NX could be more powerful than PS4 and Xbone, very unlikely giving Nintendo past three consoles but maybe who knows, at least the rumor is not the other way around and it was with the wii and wii u

Any console coming out a few years after the PS4 and XB1 should be more powerful than them.  That's how this stuff has worked for literally every single console ever made except the Wii and Wii U (and I guess the Atari 7800 but it was actually cancelled and resurrected two years after its intended release).  For something like the Gamecube I don't even think there was any intentional effort to be more powerful than the PS2.  It's just simply that it came out a year later and the tech was a little better and a little cheaper so they went with it.

Now I would not expect anything future proof nor do I think Nintendo should do so.  It just needs to be enough to last until the competition goes to their next consoles and last time the generation lasted seven years for Sony and eight for MS.  So release the NX in 2016 and aim to replace it in 2020 (and if the other guys don't upgrade by then, wait longer).  Nintendo ends up splitting the generation between two consoles and then is all caught up.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: MagicCow64 on October 19, 2015, 03:14:34 PM
The most current scuttlebutt I've seen is tied to the Wall Street Journal article about devkits, which says something along the lines of Nintendo being aware of the power disparity issue and taking care this time to use leading tech. Separately, awhile ago there was some investor call or whathaveyou at AMD that seemed to indicate that they had struck a deal for a large semi-custom chip order to go into production in 2016 with hints that it was videogame related. So now there's speculation that Nintendo has pulled off a deal with the ailing AMD for cutting-edge tech on the cheap, which would allow them to outperform the PS4/XBONE while maintaining a reasonable price point.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Mop it up on October 19, 2015, 04:01:37 PM
With the law of diminishing returns, I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 and XBONE are around even longer than the PS360 before getting a successor. Unless they decide to go the phone route instead, making a new one or more every year, though I don't know how well that would work for a game system.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ThePerm on October 19, 2015, 04:31:31 PM
You have to realize that NX is going to be next gen compared to ps4 and xbox one. Wii U is weird in that in most ways it is next gen compared to ps3 and xbox360 except the processor speed. IT has more ram and a superior GPU, which would mean it should be way better than those tow, but according to developers its CPU is weird and not as fast in clockrate. Developers could take advantage of the CPU in different ways, but they would have to reprogram the games.

As a programmer I understand some of this. When I write my code I test it constantly. There are some types of code you could write that's inefficient and may not be noticed on a faster cpu. On a slower CPU you might be like WTF? IT costs too much money to have someone rewrite the code just to get it running on Wii U. There is a lot of slowdown on Watchdogs, this is because what code works on ps3 and xbox 360 does not work on Wii U's cpu. I can imagine that they might have to change some gameplay to get the game running smoothly on wii U, but they didn't.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on October 19, 2015, 05:16:05 PM
You have to realize that NX is going to be next gen compared to ps4 and xbox one. Wii U is weird in that in most ways it is next gen compared to ps3 and xbox360 except the processor speed. IT has more ram and a superior GPU, which would mean it should be way better than those tow, but according to developers its CPU is weird and not as fast in clockrate. Developers could take advantage of the CPU in different ways, but they would have to reprogram the games.

As a programmer I understand some of this. When I write my code I test it constantly. There are some types of code you could write that's inefficient and may not be noticed on a faster cpu. On a slower CPU you might be like WTF? IT costs too much money to have someone rewrite the code just to get it running on Wii U. There is a lot of slowdown on Watchdogs, this is because what code works on ps3 and xbox 360 does not work on Wii U's cpu. I can imagine that they might have to change some gameplay to get the game running smoothly on wii U, but they didn't.

Gee it's like no one is making games for Nintendo's console because it's an expensive and complicated pain in the ass to do so.  But isn't all just a personal vendetta against Nintendo?  It couldn't be a BUSINESS reason, could it?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on October 19, 2015, 08:50:11 PM
I don't think anyone has said they have a personal vendetta against Nintendo. Although there were some nasty comments thrown around by Frostbite engine devs, if I recall?

I believe the age-old adage goes: "Nintendo makes consoles they can program for." But that's pretty much it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: nickmitch on October 19, 2015, 08:50:34 PM
With the law of diminishing returns, I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 and XBONE are around even longer than the PS360 before getting a successor. Unless they decide to go the phone route instead, making a new one or more every year, though I don't know how well that would work for a game system.

Yeah, the PS3 was supposed to last 10 years, right?  I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 didn't last about that long.  There's no way they'd go the phone route.  It'd be too expensive for devs unless the backwards compatibility was a given.  Plus the online system would have to carry over seamlessly, but that may not be a huge issue.  Now, Bi-annual hardware revisions, I could see happening.  Especially if they come with slight spec bumps (bigger HDDs, more RAM for the OS, etc).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 19, 2015, 09:48:32 PM
With the law of diminishing returns, I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 and XBONE are around even longer than the PS360 before getting a successor. Unless they decide to go the phone route instead, making a new one or more every year, though I don't know how well that would work for a game system.

Yeah, the PS3 was supposed to last 10 years, right?  I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 didn't last about that long.  There's no way they'd go the phone route.  It'd be too expensive for devs unless the backwards compatibility was a given.  Plus the online system would have to carry over seamlessly, but that may not be a huge issue.  Now, Bi-annual hardware revisions, I could see happening.  Especially if they come with slight spec bumps (bigger HDDs, more RAM for the OS, etc).

Honestly the PS3 could have lasted 10 years.  The problem is that once companies are making profit on the consoles and games, the buzz is gone and the market starts to dwindle...so you need new hype.  You know that one of the other companies is going to jump first, so you start planning your new system.  But honestly Xbox 1 and PS4 could last 10 years, because graphics and gameplay are already pretty amazing...do we really need more? 

I am really curious what this will do for the industry.  Basically Nintendo could be launching a new system mid-life cycle of the current generation.  This will either be great for Nintendo as Nintendo can start being a mid-generation new system for those that are interested in a slight spec jump...but it is also going to force Sony and Microsoft to end their generation earlier than they probably wanted. 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ShyGuy on October 19, 2015, 11:33:02 PM
The problem with lasting 10 years is some core gamers start moving to the PC for better performance. We saw some of this in 2011 and 2012.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ymeegod on October 20, 2015, 02:48:40 AM
"With the law of diminishing returns"

The thing was you have to recall why Sony and MS needed to extend last generation of consoles.  Both manufactures took heavy loses (Sony with the Cell processor) and MS with the *red" ring of death lawsuit.  So far this generation there hasn't been any "snag" or heavy loss for them so they are already making a profit on their returns. 

I think right now, Sony's unstoppable.  MS needs a  Japanese partner (merger or complete buyout) since it's a totally flop in Japan and has to rethink it's European pricing structure.  Can't win on NA sales alone.

Nintendo has it's own share of problems, namely 3rd parties.  Nintendo needs them to commit and I don't see that happening anytime soon.  Like MS, Nintendo's going have to money hat developers, either buy them outright or buy their support.  Sony's klling it lately, Square's deal the FFVII, Capcom's exclusive SFV, first downloadable content for Activision's BO III.  Sometimes you have to spend money to make money and Nintendo's going have to play that game in order to get back on top.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ThePerm on October 20, 2015, 08:31:33 AM
We could always bring back that

Nintendo
Xbox

rumor.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on October 20, 2015, 10:37:36 AM
Wii60 Boys.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Mop it up on October 20, 2015, 07:47:17 PM
The problem with lasting 10 years is some core gamers start moving to the PC for better performance. We saw some of this in 2011 and 2012.
Do you have some evidence of this? Those two years had some of the highest sales numbers for both PS3 and 360, so I'm not so sure...
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Soren on October 20, 2015, 09:59:59 PM
Given how certain developers treat their PC ports, I don't believe that much either.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ShyGuy on October 21, 2015, 12:49:11 AM
Just anecdotal evidence. The gaming press started playing a lot of PC version of games over the console counterparts. Far Cry 3 is an example. Skyrim, Dragon Age, etc... It's not everybody, but there are a number of people who have to have 60fps and wait for Steam sales.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ThePerm on October 21, 2015, 02:28:51 AM
It could be that developers just follow trends, not actual numbers and statistics.

I know how that sounds.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: broodwars on October 21, 2015, 03:19:25 AM
With the law of diminishing returns, I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 and XBONE are around even longer than the PS360 before getting a successor. Unless they decide to go the phone route instead, making a new one or more every year, though I don't know how well that would work for a game system.

Yeah, the PS3 was supposed to last 10 years, right?

*ahem* And it did. It launched in 2006, and it's still getting major software releases in 2016 (Persona 5).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: UncleBob on October 21, 2015, 10:16:43 AM
With the law of diminishing returns, I wouldn't be surprised if the PS4 and XBONE are around even longer than the PS360 before getting a successor. Unless they decide to go the phone route instead, making a new one or more every year, though I don't know how well that would work for a game system.

Yeah, the PS3 was supposed to last 10 years, right?

*ahem* And it did. It launched in 2006, and it's still getting major software releases in 2016 (Persona 5).

Wii launched in 2006 and still got a major release in 2015. :p
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Louieturkey on October 21, 2015, 08:21:19 PM
I'd like to point out that when Sony says 10 years, that does not preclude them from releasing another system inbetween. They stated 10 years with the PS2 and did continue support through I think 11 years with it.  PS1 lasted with them selling it for 10 years as well.   My guess is the PS3 will be sold through 2018 at this point making it a 12 year console.

I think the PS4/XB1 will last as far as MS decides to keep it on the market.  They are really the ones who have been impatient in the past and I think if they continue to be second place and continue to lose money on the XB1, they will either start the next gen earlier than most hope or sell the Xbox division and get out of the console market.  I think Sony is in the same mindset of Nintendo in that they want to ride the system as long as they can like Nintendo with the original NES.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on October 28, 2015, 04:48:09 PM
I guess with the rumor of this thing being some sort of hybrid similar to Wii U, only more portable, I think that rules out a full blown Tablet at this point?

I am thinking that this could be the system that really makes or breaks it for Nintendo. If they can somehow pull off a major system seller out the gates and pick up, and keep, strong third party support without sacrificing gameplay to some wonky control scheme only the most devoted fans will put up with, this machine could be their true return to glory.

I shouldn't be optimistic because history has taught me to be skeptical of everything Nintendo does, but I don't know with a new President and PS4 proving consoles are not dead, even in Japan, I think that suggests they just might have learned their lesson this time.

I still expect them to be light on the multimedia features as there is just no way they are going to change positions on that now, but at this point I don't think those are a real issue anymore so long as Hulu and Netflix work as expected I think that should be enough for the masses.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 28, 2015, 08:00:39 PM
I agree that this home console system is really going to be the testing point for Nintendo as a hardware console maker. 

The portable gaming market is fluctuating and mobile gaming is changing...even if people think hand phone gaming is worse than portable it is easier to carry one device.  So that is what people will do. 

So now console gaming is more important to Nintendo, but they have been losing popularity in consoles since the Nintendo 64.  The Wii was a fluke, and even then towards the end of the life cycle it wasn't performing as well.

Nintendo needs to get lucky again this next generation...because right now Nintendo looks only successful in handhelds.  A hybrid might help, but honestly, I think Nintendo needs more.  Personally, I think I would double or triple down on the motion controls and get them perfect. 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 28, 2015, 08:47:16 PM
I think my idea would be to try to make a motion controller that can do 90% of what a regular controller can do, so that the default controller can be the only controller you need.  That means you need near flawless motion control.

I think combining the Wii motion technology using the infrared lights and camera positioning but using the Wii using the sensor bar and the Wii mote as both camera and infrared projector could give better motion control calculations...you might need a dedicated chip to that but add to that two gyro sensors for best tilt tracking and put all the same technology in the new wireless nunchuk that comes WITH the controller not an add on and you have a good start.

Next move the D-Pad down to where the 1 and 2 buttons are, and put 4 buttons near the top how you hold them and have the A and X button be bean shaped curved towards the Y and B buttons to help feel the buttons is a good start.  Still have the trigger underneath, but add another trigger 2 triggers accessible only when holding the controller in the NES classic Controller setup, and now you have a Wiimote that has motion controls for pointing and mouse controls (the 2nd analog stick) 5 easily accessible buttons for one hand.  An analog nunchuk for movement and 2 more buttons...and a fully operational SNES controller.  The only thing it can't do well is N64 controls. 

This is what the Wii U should have been from the start but with comparable hardware to the Xbox One. 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on October 28, 2015, 08:57:26 PM
I agree that this home console system is really going to be the testing point for Nintendo as a hardware console maker. 

The portable gaming market is fluctuating and mobile gaming is changing...even if people think hand phone gaming is worse than portable it is easier to carry one device.  So that is what people will do. 

So now console gaming is more important to Nintendo, but they have been losing popularity in consoles since the Nintendo 64.  The Wii was a fluke, and even then towards the end of the life cycle it wasn't performing as well.

Nintendo needs to get lucky again this next generation...because right now Nintendo looks only successful in handhelds.  A hybrid might help, but honestly, I think Nintendo needs more.  Personally, I think I would double or triple down on the motion controls and get them perfect.

Everything but your last sentence I agree with but I think they need to just ABANDON motion controls altogether unless they are seriously considering entering VR which is not likely.

There was a time when Nintendo was known for working with cutting edge technology firms to bring home the best technology to their products, that time has long gone now is the time to get that reputation back.
Software alone will not save them, they need to get every single partner they can muster on board and they need to prove they are willing to bend over backwards to make everyone happy and take a loss for the first year to get this thing off the ground. With Wii U they stubbornly refused to make any sacrifices to profit for the long term and instead they lost money anyways because sales tanked.

With Steam and Oculus entering the fold hard core gamers are going to be more impressed by technology than ever before, you cut corners in this day and age you might as well throw in the towel and join Sega in nobodygivesashit land.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 28, 2015, 10:06:28 PM
Nintendo has NEVER been about cutting edge technology.  In fact no console maker except maybe Sony and the Cell Processor has been about delivering cutting edge technology. 

My point is, Nintendo can't or isn't willing to risk the costs associated with higher end technology...selling consoles below cost to keep it in a reasonable price range.  Spending budgets the size of mid-range summer blockbuster movies or more is very risky for Nintendo, and Nintendo doesn't have secondary divisions to help balance those types of losses. 

So Nintendo looks for gimmicks to differentiate themselves from the competition.  And the Wii was the ONLY system that had workable motion controls...they were not perfect, but they were workable, and the general public would assume Nintendo was the motion control specialists.  They should have followed up the Wii with the next step of motion control.  Turn the Wii U into the SNES of motion controls.  The SNES was the next evolutionary step in 2D gaming.  We needed that advancement for motion controls, because as Ian Sane would point out, motion controls were not perfectly satisfying yet.  But for many they were incredibly engaging.

Now imagine the money spent on the tablet like controller going into research and development of better motion controls and then launching the Wii U at around the same price, but having better hardware...launching I think you can see how the Wii U could have been something more approachable and even 3rd parties would have already known how to adjust for the difference between Nintendo and other platforms.

Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on October 29, 2015, 12:41:47 PM
I think people tend to forget how cutting edge the NES was.  Their goal was to make something that could run Donkey Kong nearly arcade perfect.  The Famicom came out in 1983 and compare that to the Colecovision which came out only a year earlier.  The Famicom also came out the same day as the Sega SG-1000 and ran circles around it.  It was very impressive stuff for the time.

I think motion control is a fool's errand because I think what people want, and Sony appears to have known this more than anyone, is a good flexible videogame system that is actually kind of generic in its features and abilities.  Nintendo offered something like this with the NES and SNES and those are the two consoles where they were the most commercially and culturally relevant videogame company in the world.  Those consoles did what people expected and were broad enough in their functionality that a wide variety of games and genres were present.  Since then Nintendo always has some trade-off.  Some piece of core functionality that the market expects that is cast aside in favour of Nintendo's own weird way of doing things.

N64 - no you don't get FMW or CD quality audio or lower game prices but you do get fast load times
GC - no you don't get online gaming but you do get GBA connectivity
Wii - no you don't get industry standard specifications but you do get motion control
Wii U - no you don't get industry standard specifications again but you do get a tablet controller

It is funny that Nintendo has stuck with this "compromise this to get this" routine for four console generations when it has only worked ONCE while the two consoles they had that didn't do that were hugely successful.  Meanwhile Sony has had four consoles and three of them were the industry leader simply by being incredibly conventional.  The PS3 was their one misstep and that was because they went away from their proven strategy, going with a high end luxury price product instead of something that fit the conventions of the industry.  I don't even know where Nintendo got the idea that being unnecessarily weird was somehow the key to success.  The N64 was largely seen as a misstep and you figure that when it came time to decide if the Cube goes online or doesn't that they would think "failing to follow the conventions of the market really bit us in the ass on the N64 so let's avoid making that mistake again" and instead it was "yeah, being weird for no reason and denying consumers options is the way to go even though the only previous time we did that we surrendered our market share to a non-videogame company that was a newcomer to the market."  A smart company would learn from their mistakes but Nintendo has operated like an insane person since the Virtual Boy.

So focusing on motion controls or other weird gimmicks is going to do jack **** for Nintendo because the only time it ever worked for ANYBODY was the Wii and that appears to be a one time fluke that really only lasted for the first 2/3 of the Wii's life (Wii mania was clearly over the last two years before the Wii U came out).  The market leading console of every other generation has been a very conventional product that has the flexibility to provide lots of games of different styles from different developers.  Because ultimately that's what people want - games.

If Nintendo can include such gimmicks in a console that is also conventional and it somehow doesn't make the price too high then why not do it?  But I don't think that's feasible.  Why doesn't Nintendo just try something conventional?  They haven't put in a real effort to do so in 20 years and yet it makes no sense why when the opposite approach has blown up in their face most of the time.  The only justification I can think of is that their handheld line has been very successful by not being conventional and they've made the mistaken assumption that that same formula applies to consoles, which is still weird because it completely ignores the NES and SNES.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on October 29, 2015, 01:14:50 PM
I have read articles from the time how Nintendo was doing things inside N64 that super computers at the time were not doing. Nintendo partnered with some top technology firms to make sure the N64 was in fact cutting edge, they did the same with SNES in fact they worked with SONY to develop a very high end sound chip for the SNES and compared to Genesis the specs of the SNES were pretty damn good. Nintendo compromised on one issue with SNES and that was censoring games, which bit them in the ass and they shed that, sort of, with N64.

Motion controls were a fluke I don't think perfecting those is going to bring people back, I would rather they pretend Wii never even happened and just moved on. What I can say is people who worship Wii forget that the casual market was into Wii Sports and Wii Fit, they didn't care that waggle worked in Mario because casuals had been playing NES Mario for decades and the casuals flocked to the VC. Nobody outside of grandmas and die hard fans were into motion controls. They worked for a very small handful of niche games and ruined all the traditional games.

The biggest problem with Nintendo is they fix one problem they created only to create new ones each generation. IF Wii had at least been graphically on par with 360 *or* still GC level tech but HD capable, they might have at least been able to get a few more games out of 3rd parties who didn't want to sacrifice quality to port their game down to fit Wii's platform. If you take into account how much it sold despite the 3rd party support and lack of features, imagine how much better it would have been if motion controls really were the selling point and it also had at least comparable specs if not cutting edge.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on October 29, 2015, 11:28:50 PM
The question is can Nintendo compete in this market.


Before Nintendo was top dog and they were able to manage to make a good system that could still be sold for a profit...now you can't do that.  You are hoping that the profits come from software and that a couple of years losses will benefit the company in the end. 


Well if you look at the Xbox division they have been struggling to make profits and money hatting exclusives has only made it worse.  Nintendo can't bleed money like that...because right now they are pretty much only one division video games.  Sony and Microsoft are much more and they have diversified business models.


Motion Controls were a fluke, but they introduced the world to a new means of playing games...and some games WERE better with motion controls.  Some sports games, many first person shooters, Some great puzzle and adventure games. 


I think in this market of 3 console makers one is always going to be the loser, and Nintendo has been the loser 4 generations in a row.  The Wii sold many units but the long run they were losers...because of software perception and consumers not buying more games. 


However, many of the party games and group games for casuals sold because there was a market for that kind of game...just gamers knew that the better experience for traditional games was on the other system.


What I am suggesting is perfecting the motion controls and differentiating yourself so that you can have great experiences you can't have on another system.  But not compromising on anything else.  Nintendo could have spent R&D not on a tablet but perfecting the online experience and infrastructure.  Nintendo could have saved money and given the user a more powerful console for the price, but didn't. 


Personally, I really liked the motion controls and I know other people did as well...but it could have been implemented better and that is all I wanted to see.

Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on October 30, 2015, 12:08:22 AM
N64 - no you don't get FMW or CD quality audio or lower game prices but you do get fast load times
It was the exception to the rule, but Resident Evil 2 for N64 had full motion video. So did Jeopardy, Pokemon Puzzle League, Gex 3, Wheel of Fortune, and a few others. Sure, there wasn't a LOT of FMV on any of those games (actually RE2 had a pretty long intro), due to lack of storage space, but it at least was possible. Not worth the investment in larger cartridges though.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: MagicCow64 on October 30, 2015, 01:17:26 AM
Also, FMV was and is gross. I'm glad it's gone, and that the 64 was not blighted by it for the most part. Also many games, such as Mario 64, would not have been possible due to CD streaming limitations at the time.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on October 30, 2015, 10:06:10 AM
Also, FMV was and is gross. I'm glad it's gone, and that the 64 was not blighted by it for the most part. Also many games, such as Mario 64, would not have been possible due to CD streaming limitations at the time.


I am not at all convinced this is true, Mario 64 had TINY levels compared to some games on Playstation, I think it would have been possible look at N64 games that were on Playstation for clues, also the above mentioned Resident Evil, FF7, etc.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on October 30, 2015, 12:31:07 PM
The question is can Nintendo compete in this market.

Before Nintendo was top dog and they were able to manage to make a good system that could still be sold for a profit...now you can't do that.  You are hoping that the profits come from software and that a couple of years losses will benefit the company in the end. 

Well if you look at the Xbox division they have been struggling to make profits and money hatting exclusives has only made it worse.  Nintendo can't bleed money like that...because right now they are pretty much only one division video games.  Sony and Microsoft are much more and they have diversified business models.

Well the Wii U model isn't working out so hot.  If the NX is like the Wii U where it compromises a bunch of stuff to be different then it is going to sell worse.  A console experience like the Wii U where almost every game being made is available for every console except it and the only worthwhile games are made by Nintendo themselves and months go by with nothing being released doesn't increase the customer-base, it shrinks it.  Aside from the spike of the Wii, which only spiked because it found a new audience, each Nintendo console sells less than the one before and that makes sense.  People buy the console, are disappointed by all of it's problems, and lose faith in Nintendo and switch brands.

More than anything else my disappointment with the Wii is the reason I didn't buy a Wii U.  Nintendo needed to show me that things would be different this time and they didn't.  Once I found out the specs were compromised for a weird controller yet again I knew all the third party issues I had with the Wii would continue and I was right, and I was already pretty fed up with that issue on the N64 and Cube.  So if the NX is some another Nintendo weird console then everyone who owns a Wii U and is pissed off that there are so few games for it and that Nintendo has done very little with the Gamepad is going to think "oh that's another Wii U.  I'm not buying that" and the console sells even worse.  And of course all those you wrote off Nintendo in prior generations are going to continue to not buy the console because the Wii U retained the problems of the Wii which retained the problems of the Gamecube which retained the problems of the N64.  Nothing ever is fixed and new problems get introduced and become part of the "formula".

So how long does this approach with the ever shrinking userbase and increased customer dissatisfaction and bad reputation and poor word-of-mouth keep working?  A couple years ago were they not shitting bricks about the poor Wii U sales?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on October 30, 2015, 02:25:41 PM
I think they can compete in the arms race if they focus on what matters. Can they cram in all the 1:1 tech the other two have such as voice commands, robust media options, etc, NO but they don't need to. What they need is to be on equal ground for GAMES and then let their unique set of features balance things out.


With Game Cube they should have gone with normal sized DVD's and either built in online or a better pack in with the adapter to spur sales.

They didn't so they lost 3rd party games the relied on those two features.


The main features they need is a disc drive equal to their competition so features don't get cut, they actually DO have that with Wii U, but they lack the processing power and graphics. So in order to make games look decent on Wii U requires massive programming skills and extra effort than the other two, which costs more money and nobody bothers so they lose money and move on.

IF NX has specs that do not compromise at all, I mean at all the CPU needs to be fast and it needs to be easy to program for or to port from the other two. The graphics set needs to be at least on par with or better than PS4, matching Xbox one won't cut it because they are already low end and Nintendo desperately needs to shed their low end image. They need to implament proper Blu Ray and DVD support, basic media features like Netflix, Hulu, Youtube, and a couple others, and a better online experience and they need to make Mii's optional not forced on you before they have a chance to win back enough people to really matter.


3rd parties won't take the extra time to bother with the weird features if the main game is not comparable. If you have to cut features and account for weird things like Miiverse and funky controls that don't match what the competition has, on top of scaling things down to fit the slower CPU and weaker GPU then why bother when the userbase is too small or too stubborn to matter.

The fact people even say they don't play 3rd party games is also part of the problem the whole elitist culture of Nintendo fans has become part of the problem, its like if a game doesn't play exactly like a Nintendo game or remind them of something from their childhood then forget it it's not worth playing.

A game like Diablo 3 SHOULD have been on Wii U, there desperately needs to be a Mincraft for Wii U and a Sim City or some other mainstream Sims game, but none of those are even going to happen.


Forcing things on users is Nintendo's problem and why people LOVE Playstation, because Sony gives gamers the choice, if you don't like something fine it's optional but if you do they offer the option, they had motion controls optional for those who wanted it, not forced it on those that didn't. Wii would have been just fine if Classic controller was packed in and support mandatory and Wii remote also packed in as a deluxe bundle but optional, like Zapper, for those that didn't want it. Same with the Game Pad.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ShyGuy on October 31, 2015, 03:01:19 PM
Rumor! Tekken 7 is coming to the NX.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: MagicCow64 on November 01, 2015, 02:08:14 PM
Also, FMV was and is gross. I'm glad it's gone, and that the 64 was not blighted by it for the most part. Also many games, such as Mario 64, would not have been possible due to CD streaming limitations at the time.


I am not at all convinced this is true, Mario 64 had TINY levels compared to some games on Playstation, I think it would have been possible look at N64 games that were on Playstation for clues, also the above mentioned Resident Evil, FF7, etc.

With the RE games and FF7, the Playstation took advantage of prerendered backgrounds, which was admittedly a strength largely not available to the N64. But that was also a stop-gap in game design that went away. Anyhow, I read a pretty convincing breakdown once on how certain 64 games wouldn't have been doable with the Playstation disc drive, but I can't dig it up at the moment. There was that 64DD version of Mario 64 in the works, but from what I recall the DD wasn't exactly disc based. What PS1 games compare to the scale and complexity of the bigger Mario 64 levels? Or morseo, Banjo Tooie?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on November 01, 2015, 03:10:14 PM
Mario 64 was also a lunch game, and the levels weren't supposed to be gigantic, otherwise getting stars would take too long.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on November 01, 2015, 04:49:38 PM
It wasn't that levels couldn't be done, but the experience would suffer.  Mario 64 had so little load time playing it was sheer joy.  You could run from outside the castle and be in a new level in about a minute or two.  And actually the levels are bigger than they feel, it is just moving Mario around the levels is so effortless it makes the worlds more approachable.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on November 02, 2015, 01:22:00 PM
Super Mario 64 was awesome and so were most of the first party N64 games.  But going with cartridges completely screwed up third party support.  So is each first party N64 game better than 20 good PlayStation games that presumably the N64 would have gotten if Nintendo had gone with CDs?  That's probably about the ratio for each game.  On the Wii U today is each first party game worth that?  It becomes Nintendo's handful of games vs. pretty much every other game being made.  No company can hold up to such a comparison and that's why those that are cool with that are the minority.  Most gamers want access to the broadest selection of games and they don't get that from Nintendo.

So If Nintendo sticks with that formula their consoles are going to continue to underperform sales-wise.  That tradeoff is way too much to ask of most consumers.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on November 02, 2015, 03:05:51 PM
Sony does not give players choice.

Most gamers want choice and I agree, Nintendo needs to make a console that allows them that opportunity. But Nintendo needs to be insanely aggressive if they are going to do so since they're competing with two other consoles that are two years deep and now finally have enough third party support to give their systems a decent library. And frankly, I just don't see Nintendo being that aggressive.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: MagicCow64 on November 02, 2015, 04:25:30 PM
Super Mario 64 was awesome and so were most of the first party N64 games.  But going with cartridges completely screwed up third party support.  So is each first party N64 game better than 20 good PlayStation games that presumably the N64 would have gotten if Nintendo had gone with CDs?  That's probably about the ratio for each game.  On the Wii U today is each first party game worth that?  It becomes Nintendo's handful of games vs. pretty much every other game being made.  No company can hold up to such a comparison and that's why those that are cool with that are the minority.  Most gamers want access to the broadest selection of games and they don't get that from Nintendo.

So If Nintendo sticks with that formula their consoles are going to continue to underperform sales-wise.  That tradeoff is way too much to ask of most consumers.

Yeah, I mean, I really didn't mind in the moment. I did not think the first-gen CD-based consoles were ready for prime time, and they were lousy at local multiplayer. I was jealous about Resident Evil, but 2 came to the 64. I played through 1/3 of FF7's PC release and did not care for it, and had no interest in the newly cinematic RPG renaissance. By the time the Gamecube rolled around the tech had matured to playable PS2 levels and there's where I would say the lack of software comparably was really a problem, but even then the GC got a healthy amount of ports. Wii obviously went off the rails with that, but had a great catalog in its own right with many interesting experiments. I had a 360 on the early side, but didn't hold onto it for long as the software wasn't there, and I only resorted to getting one again years later after the Wii dried up and there were enough games to go back and play through. Now with WiiU, it's basically only Nintendo, which is certainly pushing viability, but at the same time I'd argue we're in a pretty lousy software environment overall with nothing approaching the volume and diversity of releases available on the PS1 and PS2 (or even PS3), which shows no sign of getting better.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on November 02, 2015, 04:46:50 PM
Sony does not give players choice.

Care to explain? Sony has long been regarded as the default system for console games. The reality is if a game gets announced unless it is exclusive to Nintendo or Xbox then it will be on Playstation. This is mostly true for Xbox but they do lose a few notable Japanese games here and there that Sony always seems to get. With Nintendo its like you don't just have to like Nintendo games, you have to like quirky little indie games that look, play, and sound like Nintendo games or that is it.

I don't know where this whole idea that variety is somehow bad came from, but if Nintendo has embraced it, it's obvious some of their fans have too. I don't see the console war as some arbitrary date set in stone that has to be won or lost by a certain time. Nintendo doesn't have to pay any attention to what Microsoft and Sony are doing as long as they can get enough stuff going in the future. If their console wows gamers and attracts developers it won't matter what the other two are doing. Sony is about to launch a new platform anyways with their VR stuff and Microsoft is going to keep an eye on that if they want to keep up with Sony. Nintendo might be releasing NX two to three years behind the other two but so what? They can get hardware out that is better and does something unique and doesn't cost a fortune to develop for then it could work.

But if they go the second console route again they had better damn well figure out how to price their machine better to be budget friendly. Wii U would be fantastic as a second console, if it was $150 bucks, which is what it should have launched at considering it was LAST FUCKING GEN hardware when it released. There is no sane excuse for Nintendo to release a machine in 2012 that is a weak as a machine released in 2006 but costs as much as one released in 2013. Considering the specs inside Wii U if it does cost them so much to sell it for this high and turn a profit, they got ripped the **** off because MS and Sony should have brought down the cost of that level of chip specs years ago. I call bullshit n Wii U selling for a loss if they sold it for less than $200 there is nothing special about the Wii U that wasn't possible on machines released six or more years prior.

And I doubt there is enough tech in the Gamepad to up the cost as much as fanboys tend to claim either. Nintendo was greedy with Wii U because they were losing money for the first time in years and refused to take chances period, they are cowards it's as simple as that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on November 03, 2015, 12:34:41 PM
Dude, relax. I'm not going to argue with you, in just going to say that the Playstation network has offered me few options in a number of ways, Sony's lineup if games offers little variety, and saying a large library with little actual variety is missing the point of choice.

Not saying Nintendo is any better, though I would argue Microsoft is definitely worse than both other options. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: broodwars on November 03, 2015, 01:54:17 PM
Dude, relax. I'm not going to argue with you, in just going to say that the Playstation network has offered me few options in a number of ways, Sony's lineup if games offers little variety, and saying a large library with little actual variety is missing the point of choice.

What?  :Q Here's some major Sony-published titles on PS4 since launch (I cut out the remasters that were on the PS3 as well):

Killzone: Shadow Fall - 1st Person Shooter
Knack - Cartoony character action game
Infamous Second Son - Open World
Driveclub - Driving
LittleBigPlanet 3 - 2D platformer
MLB 14 & 15: The Show - Sports
The Order: 1886 - 3rd Person Shooter
Bloodborne - Character Action Game/Adventure Game
Until Dawn - Telltale-style Adventure Game
Tearaway Unfolded - 3D platformer
Everybody's Gone to the Rapture - Walking Simulator/ "Interactive Narrative"
Helldivers - Co-op Arcade-y shooter
Galak-Z - Rogue-like 2D space shooter

Yeah, there could be some more family-oriented games in there for my liking, but that's a pretty decent variety of genres represented there IMO.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on November 03, 2015, 04:03:11 PM
I would argue that most of those are subpar iterations of games and genres that already have more iconic, better crafted titles available on other systems, but then I'd be summarizing the current era of video games.

So yeah, if by "choice" you mean "the same tired stuff with familiar elements, minor additions, and a slightly better coat of paint" then yeah. I don't exactly trust Nintendo to innovate on any of those genres with how sterile their own efforts have been recently, in addition to them taking forever to do a spin on shooters that's still a gutted beast in regards to online options.

I hate video games, by the way.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on November 04, 2015, 04:12:41 PM
I would argue that most of those are subpar iterations of games and genres that already have more iconic, better crafted titles available on other systems, but then I'd be summarizing the current era of video games.

So yeah, if by "choice" you mean "the same tired stuff with familiar elements, minor additions, and a slightly better coat of paint" then yeah. I don't exactly trust Nintendo to innovate on any of those genres with how sterile their own efforts have been recently, in addition to them taking forever to do a spin on shooters that's still a gutted beast in regards to online options.

I hate video games, by the way.


I wasn't trying to start a fight man sorry if it came off that way. I just am in shock someone could claim Playstation has less variety than Nintendo, or that was how I read your post.
I also apologize if my posts are too long sometimes, I am a writer by profession sometimes I get going and I can't stop.

I can sort of see where you are coming from if you prefer say Platformers and quirky games like what Nintendo is known for, except then you get gems like Littlebigplanet, Ratchet and Clank, Minecraft, Plants vs. Zombies, and so many more that more than make up for the lack of Mario and DK games.

I agree there are gaps in Sony's line up too, nobody is perfect, but they have the least gaps of the three.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on November 04, 2015, 05:14:56 PM
I find the only thing missing on a PlayStation console is Nintendo games.  That's a pretty major gap for someone with tastes like myself but it is miniscule compared to having everything missing except Nintendo games.  For anyone that doesn't care for Nintendo's own games there is no reason to own a Nintendo console, but there is still reason to own a Nintendo handheld and there was for owning the NES and SNES.  And the only person that couldn't find something to play on a PlayStation would be someone that ONLY likes Nintendo games.  Nintendo has created this segregation of the console audience.  They're their own entity with a very devoted group of fans and little customers outside that group.  And that fanbase is so Nintendo-focused that third parties complain that their games don't sell on Nintendo consoles.

Of course I never knew an NES or SNES owner that didn't also like Mega Man or Castlevania or numerous other non-Nintendo games.  In the SNES era it was normal for someone to own one entirely for Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat.  You owned the console because it had the most games and prior to 1996 Nintendo was just one of those many companies whose games were included.  Nintendo-only fans weren't a thing then.  I want both Nintendo games and third party games and I assume I'm not some tiny little minority.  Nintendo's fanbase has become more Nintendo-only simply because those are the only people that would not be disappointed by a console with no third party support.  But is that the true audience or is there a good-sized potential audience of people like me that want a Nintendo console with good third party support and for which something like the PS4 is a compromise - the closer to what they want than what Nintendo is offering but not the modern NES/SNES equivalent that they would really like?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ymeegod on November 05, 2015, 11:13:09 PM
There's been plenty of "knockoffs" during the years though.  So while Sony doesn't have Mario Kart, it does have similar games. 

Also while the WII did bring back platformers, I find myself enjoying "indie" platform games just as much as Nintendo own Mario Games. 

======================================================================
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Shaymin on November 05, 2015, 11:28:48 PM
I'm still waiting for Unkarted from Naughty Dog. Now that they're apparently done with those brotastic action games they can get back to their strength: racing.

And no, this year's E3 demo doesn't count.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on November 06, 2015, 11:45:26 AM
So we are all assuming this is not a full on gaming tablet like an iPad with buttons are a scaled up version of the GamePad but we do assume it will feature a control scheme comparable to 3DS/Wii U correct?

We also are lead to believe it will feature leading edge chips, whatever that means CPU, GPU, some strange VR interface, or some new type of RAM exclusive to Nintendo, we don't know. But we are lead to assume it will be more powerful in someway than PS4, which some had made the ridiculous claims is itself overpowered.

We have also heard rumors that Square is interested in the console to some extent, but we haven't, or at least I haven't followed who all is supposed to be supporting it. Anyways we can assume it will have strong third party support at least  up front, or more so than Wii U if reports are to be believed.

We also know it will feature some sort of shared OS between a handheld unit and a home console unit. This could be a hybrid or it could be a Gamepad on the go situation, or a GBA-GC connectivity situation, we still don't know. Or it could be just PS Vita PS4 cross buy type deal whatever it ends up being is likely to be the central focus of the machine.

Based on what we do know there is not enough reason to be hyped yet, other than the usual hey a new Nintendo console to play more games on. Oh and as far as I can tell there should be some unified account system so we can assume that games currently on eshop and, hopefully, Virtual Console, will be compatible day one with no delays or unnecessary hoops to jump through.

We also know that it should be released sometime next year, either in one phase handheld first console latter, or all at once, we don't know yet but all signs point to something coming next year.

With all that what do we not know about the machine? What type of controls will it use? Are they going to do a more traditional style controller? Stick with the touch and button combo similar to DS and Wii U, or find some new paradigm nobody has though of yet like motion controls?

Speaking of motion controls, how do they play into this new machine? Are they going to keep it backwards compatible with Wii and Wii U software? History suggests one generation back, and Wii U is not well known for its motion controls, will they keep the feature for legacy support of a handful of games? Or will they recognize the market has moved on and finally abandon motion controls entirely?

We DO know they are sticking with Mii's and chances are with the new App coming to smart phones, they are going to really push Mii's hard. Most likely because they somehow think anything carried over from Wii is good since it was so dang popular. How popular? Well I still see commercials on TV for nursing homes that show elderly using Wii Sports so they are likely still trying to target that market, Nintendo's board is aging maybe they are all just struggling with their own age and that is why they are so concerned with reaching the old timer market? Just a thought.

We also know they have not given up their core focus of games first, so they might mis-interpret that, yet again, as a means to deny basic DVD and Blu Ray playback from their customers but they should at least try to get basic media features, not just Netflix, Hulu, and Youtube.

We also have no idea what they are doing about DS/3DS and if the new machine will be compatible with legacy software from those platforms which would be a major selling point if it were.

So all of this leaves us with a lot to speculate. Since Wii U is basically a ghost this Holiday season and 3DS is a sinking ship I think shifting all attention to NX is probably smart. Some might argue its too early to speculate or whatever but if Nintendo does have people reading forums like this one and others then they do need to see their fans discussing their machine in order to get some feedback. Or they could just, continue to ignore the fans and focus yet again on chasing some blue ocean that has been consumed by iOS and Android.

Feel free to summarize, rephrase, or correct any of my findings. Or just generally continue to bring up Dreamcast and Gamecube who are always fun topics to rehash endlessly.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ThePerm on December 13, 2015, 10:18:20 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/9HLMZ7r.jpg)

Kinda like this. IT would make the physical size of the controller smaller, the screen bigger, but you would have effectively the same setup. Its would be the same thing as wii u, but higher resolution, possibly 3d, multi touch.

(http://6.darkroom.shortlist.com/980/4c6d106dc9885b7f0fb53522e477360a:e4f8cc3513bcc1e394156773a1f475f7/nx2.png)

theres this now....

http://www.engadget.com/2015/12/13/nintendo-touchscreen-gamepad-patent/
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Soren on December 13, 2015, 11:40:39 PM
I can't wait for people to complain about the price of that thing...
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ThePerm on December 14, 2015, 12:16:52 AM
one of the key differences between the edge-less design I made and this one is, I still had buttons. For a reason. Tactile response.

Everyone is already hating on it.

Personally, I don't mind buttons going away, but not joysticks. Joysticks are important. Unless they got a layer of vibrating touch grid.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 14, 2015, 12:41:24 AM
I think this is more of a "we thought of this, so we might as well patent it" situation than something they actually intend to do in the immediate future. And even if they did use it, I wouldn't read too much into the patent design not showing buttons on it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 14, 2015, 01:05:15 AM
I think this is more of a "we thought of this, so we might as well patent it" situation than something they actually intend to do in the immediate future. And even if they did use it, I wouldn't read too much into the patent design not showing buttons on it.

I am sure Nintendo has build mock ups and if this worked and was affordable then it could be something...but I really don't see this as being the new thing.  It just doesn't pop, and Patient images are never final products it is to get the patient out there with as little evidence as possible to how you would actually use it. 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 14, 2015, 03:10:57 AM
Even if it worked great and were affordable, I'm not sure how viable it would be from a marketing standpoint. For Nintendo to get out of the gate strong next time they need to convince people they've learned their lesson and are moving forward, and trying to push something so similar to what they did with the Wii U would dilute that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on December 15, 2015, 01:23:10 PM
Even if it worked great and were affordable, I'm not sure how viable it would be from a marketing standpoint. For Nintendo to get out of the gate strong next time they need to convince people they've learned their lesson and are moving forward, and trying to push something so similar to what they did with the Wii U would dilute that.

While releasing the Gamepad AGAIN is obviously not a good idea, "that's stupid" is never a valid enough justification to write off Nintendo doing something.  They've been doing obviously stupid things for 20 years.  So I agree that this isn't a viable idea but that doesn't mean Nintendo won't do it.  I'm just hoping this is some patent for a sake of patenting an idea they brainstormed but my fear is that Nintendo, as usual, has learned absolutely nothing from their failures.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: nickmitch on December 15, 2015, 02:56:03 PM
If it's cost effective, I don't see why Nintendo wouldn't do it.  The draw backs on the Wii U game were battery, cost, and lack of meaningful use.  If Nintendo can get the cost down and make a system that supports four of these things, I don't see how that wouldn't work out better.  The asymmetrical gameplay wasn't super interesting, and multiplayer games where everyone has a screen would be awesome.  You could do Mario Kart with both players using off tv play, local multiplayer for Splatoon, I'm out ideas nevermind.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: DonkeyBilly Kong on December 15, 2015, 03:52:20 PM
It could be that the controller for the NX will have a touchscreen background, but still be more of a traditional controller than a Gamepad.  There could be some ancillary backwards compatibility, but it would be clearly distinct from the Wii U.  With the screen off, it would have the ergonomics and battery life of a standard controller.

When I first heard of a touchscreen controller for the Wii U, it seemed like a logical evolution.  It adds the ability to use custom touch controls and displays, but keeps the benefits of a traditional controller over a phone or tablet.  The Gamepad, though, was a clunky execution of the idea. similar to the strange N64 controller's design based around the analog stick.  The NX might have a more practical and streamlined execution that will set the standard for other companies to follow.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on December 15, 2015, 06:19:17 PM
Nintendo has tried to sell us on this idea that a nifty controller feature will inspire awesome game ideas since the DS and, frankly, they've failed to prove this theory.  90% of the time they either ignore the feature entirely or they shoehorn it in and you're left with some awkward-controlling gimmick game.  Even a big hit like Wii Sports is a pretty much a tech demo.

I think they're full of **** and their true intention is to mask a weak effort by passing off gimmicks as innovation.  But even if they are devoted to this theory - it has failed!  They've been putting screens on controllers since the Gamecube/GBA feature and they still have done little with it.  So what great idea is there that they could have used years ago that requires a separate screen that they for whatever reason just sat on this whole time?  If the concept was truly capable of inspiring all these great ideas we would have seen them already.  The great ideas have been sparse because the concept just isn't all that great.  Same with motion controls.

They should stop with this simply because doing so would indicate a positive change in their approach.  If they're still pushing gimmick controls then they're also going to compromise this and that and hope that the fancy controller will save the day.  And if they do that they're fucked.  No one but the most devoted Nintendo fanatic will put up with the slightest bullshit from Nintendo.  You know that if they put in some neat feature in the controller that they'll skimp on something else that's actually important.  That's the whole damn plan.  If you can fool people with a shiny gimmick you can cut corners!

Nintendo should just make a conventional console and make great games for it.  That's what made them a big deal in the first place.  And when they're not forcing weird controls they still make great games.  They don't NEED to shoehorn in dumb gimmicks to make interesting or enjoyable games.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 15, 2015, 06:34:48 PM
Nintendo has tried to sell us on this idea that a nifty controller feature will inspire awesome game ideas since the DS and, frankly, they've failed to prove this theory.  90% of the time they either ignore the feature entirely or they shoehorn it in and you're left with some awkward-controlling gimmick game.  Even a big hit like Wii Sports is a pretty much a tech demo.

I think they're full of **** and their true intention is to mask a weak effort by passing off gimmicks as innovation.  But even if they are devoted to this theory - it has failed!  They've been putting screens on controllers since the Gamecube/GBA feature and they still have done little with it.  So what great idea is there that they could have used years ago that requires a separate screen that they for whatever reason just sat on this whole time?  If the concept was truly capable of inspiring all these great ideas we would have seen them already.  The great ideas have been sparse because the concept just isn't all that great.  Same with motion controls.

They should stop with this simply because doing so would indicate a positive change in their approach.  If they're still pushing gimmick controls then they're also going to compromise this and that and hope that the fancy controller will save the day.  And if they do that they're fucked.  No one but the most devoted Nintendo fanatic will put up with the slightest bullshit from Nintendo.  You know that if they put in some neat feature in the controller that they'll skimp on something else that's actually important.  That's the whole damn plan.  If you can fool people with a shiny gimmick you can cut corners!

Nintendo should just make a conventional console and make great games for it.  That's what made them a big deal in the first place.  And when they're not forcing weird controls they still make great games.  They don't NEED to shoehorn in dumb gimmicks to make interesting or enjoyable games.

And yet when a Game Developer does take the time to include the control as a key mechanic to the game you get an amazing experience...like Zack and Wiki.  I loved that game, and it deserved a sequel.  So much fun.

However, you are right that most developers won't spend that extra time to make it right.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Adrock on December 15, 2015, 08:20:52 PM
Releasing an updated Gamepad absolutely should happen, but it shouldn't be the entire point of NX. It should be "Look, we have this." Not "LOOK! WE HAVE THIS!" Marketing shouldn't focus on it. If a game requires (or is even enhanced significantly) by the GamePad, the game's marketing should advertise it.

The key is to drive the cost down and sell it for a price people don't mind paying (e.g. $50 to $60) which means the Pro Controller would naturally have to be cheaper too (e.g. $30). Rethinking pricing is something Nintendo should be doing anyway because that could give it an advantage.

Still, I don't know if the GamePad is something that should be packed in with consoles. Sure, it would be beneficial to have it in as many people's hands for games like a sequel to Mario Maker. At the same time, Mario Maker is a big enough title that it would sell the controller. And Nintendo could also offer a controller bundle (that would be stupidly difficult to find)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 15, 2015, 08:42:04 PM
If Nintendo or any company would consider lowering the prices on items that are typically being price gouged then I would reconsider getting back into gaming.

I want games to be $40.00.  Drop the CGI movies and voice acting if you need to do...I don't want it anyway.  I just want to play some fun games.  Also Controllers need to be cheaper.  I want to play local games with my friends...it should not cost me over $200.00 to do this.  30 dollars for a full Wii controller should be fair...and 25 to 30 dollars for a Pro Controller should be manageable.  Maybe more if it is wireless or comes with a battery.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 16, 2015, 12:10:00 AM
I'd imagine Nintendo wants to include a touchscreen controller for Wii U backwords compatibly and to continue selling DS and 3DS tiles to future generations on the Virtual Console.  As long as they can keep cost down this time so the controller doesn't **** the NX price for the rest of it's lifespan like the Gamepad did the Wii U, they gain more for being able to keep selling older games to people on the NX then releasing a system with just a basic controller would.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on December 16, 2015, 03:40:20 AM
I would like to mention that Phantom Hourglass, Spirit Tracks, and Skyward Sword are flawed experiences for reasons UNRELATED to their control schemes, which are novel and make them more fun.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on December 16, 2015, 09:37:29 AM
Honestly I would prefer they make a console that pretends Wii/Wii U never even happened including NOT having backwards compatibility and no more Mii's. But that is not going to happen so they had better make the rest of the experience as worth it and as cost effective as possible because Wii U was such a hard sell.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 16, 2015, 06:37:17 PM
I I disagree about Miis.  I love Miis and when used properly Miis are a fantastic addition to any game.  Sure you can say look at them...they don't scream HD.  But who cares they are cute and a perfect personal Avatar.  If Nintendo could figure out a way to create a Mii game that lets you play in the world of games you already own that could be cool.  Like a Mii Adventure App and when you buy the new Mario game you get 2 Mario themed playground levels for your Mii.  Heck you can even program ALL Amiibos to be able to play in that world with the play mechanics from their games...it could be fun.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Soren on December 16, 2015, 07:54:07 PM
Miis are great.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on December 16, 2015, 08:01:43 PM
I associate Miis with an era of Nintendo I don't care for so if it was up to me and I was catering things to my own personal preference I would get rid of them and pretend they never existed.  I suppose their could be concern that the Miis are associated with casual gaming and that continuing to have them will turn off hardcore gamers.

But can you think of a more iconic character avatar in videogaming?  I can't.  Considering how important online gaming is today and the need to identify players online I figure you need some sort of avatar system in place so why not use the one you already have?

What Nintendo shouldn't do is give the Miis a prominent place in games where they don't fit.  And they shouldn't make games like Nintendo Land or Wii Party U with the Miis as the main characters and expect them to be system-selling killer apps because the time where they were suitable for that kind of role has passed.  Personally I would use them strictly as avatars for player profiles.  They're only appropriate for casual games and why make casual games when that audience doesn't buy dedicated videogame systems anymore?

And Nintendo should absolutely not reference old Nintendo IP in "Mii form" if there is no legitimate game in that series on the horizon.  Nintendo probably thinks that F-Zero references in Nintendo Land are something that F-Zero fans enjoy.  No.  That's seen as a "**** you, there's no real F-Zero game so eat this **** instead".  Metroid: Federation Force pissed off the fanbase for the same reason.  You either make games in the series or you don't.  No fan wants some spinoff or a themed mini-game in an unrelated title when the series they love is otherwise dormant.  Stuff like that is to compliment new releases, not act as a replacement.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on December 16, 2015, 09:13:13 PM
I wouldn't mind them if I could use my console without being forced to create a Mii and look at them all the damn time. Nintendo is bad about giving people choices instead it is always their way or nothing. Sony made an effort with Home but realized it wasn't for everybody and didn't make it mandatory like Mii's are. They were a novelty that has worn off.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ShyGuy on December 16, 2015, 11:55:57 PM
What they need to do is take my Mii and attach him to my new and improved NNID
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on December 17, 2015, 09:49:32 AM
Quote
And Nintendo should absolutely not reference old Nintendo IP in "Mii form" if there is no legitimate game in that series on the horizon.  Nintendo probably thinks that F-Zero references in Nintendo Land are something that F-Zero fans enjoy.  No.  That's seen as a "**** you, there's no real F-Zero game so eat this **** instead".  Metroid: Federation Force pissed off the fanbase for the same reason.  You either make games in the series or you don't.  No fan wants some spinoff or a themed mini-game in an unrelated title when the series they love is otherwise dormant.  Stuff like that is to compliment new releases, not act as a replacement.

That was how I felt about the Smash Bros. and Mario Party games for the longest time, they new what people wanted out of a Mario game but instead of doing it they kept trying to stick Mario into games where he didn't belong. It was frustrating it took them so long to figure out New Super Mario Bros. and it shouldn't have had to be branded as "new" just to get people's attention.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ShyGuy on December 17, 2015, 11:36:51 PM
Remove R.O.B. from Smash until we get a new Gyromite!!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Triforce Hermit on December 18, 2015, 08:46:01 AM
I don't like Miis and I hate having to have one. If they want to keep it, fine. Don't force it though. It is a major annoyance for me.



I want games to be $40.00.  Drop the CGI movies and voice acting if you need to do...I don't want it anyway.
But Zelda games still cost $60 without any of those  ;)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ThePerm on December 18, 2015, 05:07:01 PM
I like Miis. It makes iconography when saving efficient. My mii looks just like my forum Avatar.

Ideally for me, I would want Nintendo to just keep the same controller as Wii U. Some stability would be nice. What Wii U lacks is power. The new controller should be dual touch though. I want to pinch and zoom when necessary. If you really think about it? Why is Nintendo constantly changing its controllers? That means they never really trusted the last control scheme was really as innovative and revolutionary as they thought. "Try our new controller, it will change everything!" "Were getting rid of that, try this new thing!"

I think both the Wii and Wii U interfaces are good interfaces. I think Nintendo should just make a more powerful wii U with some improvements. They need to call it something totally different though. Wii U was too confusing for consumers. I'm sure 2/3 of people still think its an add on for wii. Hell when they announced it I was confused for a few minutes. Or at least I saw where people could be confused.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on December 20, 2015, 07:53:55 PM
I like Miis. It makes iconography when saving efficient. My mii looks just like my forum Avatar.

Ideally for me, I would want Nintendo to just keep the same controller as Wii U. Some stability would be nice. What Wii U lacks is power. The new controller should be dual touch though. I want to pinch and zoom when necessary. If you really think about it? Why is Nintendo constantly changing its controllers? That means they never really trusted the last control scheme was really as innovative and revolutionary as they thought. "Try our new controller, it will change everything!" "Were getting rid of that, try this new thing!"

I think both the Wii and Wii U interfaces are good interfaces. I think Nintendo should just make a more powerful wii U with some improvements. They need to call it something totally different though. Wii U was too confusing for consumers. I'm sure 2/3 of people still think its an add on for wii. Hell when they announced it I was confused for a few minutes. Or at least I saw where people could be confused.


I don't think it is so much they have no faith in their controllers I think it is a matter of them truly being totally clueless as to what they are doing wrong.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 20, 2015, 10:06:16 PM
I think it is neither.

I think Nintendo believes Graphics are not a selling point to a console.  Hardware power shouldn't be the only addition to a new console.  I personally agree with this philosophy...if there isn't something truly substantial to add then just adding more power to make prettier games isn't enough.  Now, there are times that just the added graphical level adds more than just pretty pictures.  For instance the jump from N64/PS era to PS2 and Gamecube era the graphics had a real impact on not just the visuals but how the player is effected by the game because of the visuals. 

So Nintendo believes that you need more.  Well how you interact with the game is more.  Wii motion controls were flawed, but it did bring a brand new experience to gaming.  The DS and 3DS were flawed, but also brought some new experience to how you played games.  The Wii U, did not bring enough compelling new experiences to sell the audience on the controller...but it could have worked...the market is fickle and it is hard to guess what people you like.

Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Triforce Hermit on December 20, 2015, 10:23:16 PM
The game(s) should be delivering that experience, not the controller.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Enner on December 20, 2015, 11:06:43 PM
And we all know the difficulty or reluctance of having truly new experiences from games in the console space. Of course, it depends on what you're looking for.

While there's nothing wrong with the sticks, pads, buttons, and triggers of old, new types of control can open avenues previously thought impossible. The Wii Motion+ could have been great as a 3D, six axes manipulator, but it was not meant to be. Maybe Sony's Dreams will take that up.

That said, even I feel pressed to hope for something a bit more conventional when it comes to the controls or controllers for NX. Outside of a handful of games, Nintendo's software have been best suited to the sticks and buttons.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on December 21, 2015, 09:41:52 AM
I think it is neither.

I think Nintendo believes Graphics are not a selling point to a console.  Hardware power shouldn't be the only addition to a new console.  I personally agree with this philosophy...if there isn't something truly substantial to add then just adding more power to make prettier games isn't enough.  Now, there are times that just the added graphical level adds more than just pretty pictures.  For instance the jump from N64/PS era to PS2 and Gamecube era the graphics had a real impact on not just the visuals but how the player is effected by the game because of the visuals. 

So Nintendo believes that you need more.  Well how you interact with the game is more.  Wii motion controls were flawed, but it did bring a brand new experience to gaming.  The DS and 3DS were flawed, but also brought some new experience to how you played games.  The Wii U, did not bring enough compelling new experiences to sell the audience on the controller...but it could have worked...the market is fickle and it is hard to guess what people you like.


But that is YOU, you are the minority, Nintendo has gotten stuck catering too, the vast majority just want their games to be bigger and better, they do want more game play experiences but damn Sony has been innovating in that arena for over two decades and they basically use the same controller NINTENDO invented and just perfected it. Why couldn't Nintendo perfect their own controller instead of letting their competitor who does both innovative new gameplay ideas, and bigger and better graphics while sticking to the truly tested tried and true controller people WANT. Nintendo thinks they have to abandon what worked last gen and start over fresh every time instead of keeping what worked and only adding to it, they are the only company to remove features from their last gen to their next gen all the others have only added never taken away. Unless it was something minor like CD support there are not enough people in the world left who care about.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on December 21, 2015, 01:43:36 PM
I think Nintendo believes Graphics are not a selling point to a console.  Hardware power shouldn't be the only addition to a new console.  I personally agree with this philosophy...if there isn't something truly substantial to add then just adding more power to make prettier games isn't enough.  Now, there are times that just the added graphical level adds more than just pretty pictures.  For instance the jump from N64/PS era to PS2 and Gamecube era the graphics had a real impact on not just the visuals but how the player is effected by the game because of the visuals. 

So Nintendo believes that you need more.  Well how you interact with the game is more.  Wii motion controls were flawed, but it did bring a brand new experience to gaming.  The DS and 3DS were flawed, but also brought some new experience to how you played games.  The Wii U, did not bring enough compelling new experiences to sell the audience on the controller...but it could have worked...the market is fickle and it is hard to guess what people you like.

It's interesting that you say stuff like "Hardware power shouldn't be the only addition" and "Nintendo believes that you need more".  Nintendo didn't offer "more" with the Wii or Wii U.  They substituted industry standard hardware power for a fancy controller.  The Wii is practically the Gamecube all over again with a different controller.  If Nintendo offered conventional hardware AND a nifty controller I wouldn't give a **** unless it raised the price way above the competition or the controller was so restrictive that it ruined the controls of the games (Wii controller lost functionality but the Wii U merely added to the standard controller design; one of the few things Nintendo did right with it).  What I don't like is the tradeoff because it completely destroys any chance of having half-decent third party support.

The whole concept is like theoretical ideology.  For all of Nintendo's talk about how this is the more innovative way to go the resulting games are pretty cliché stuff with the controller gimmick thrown in.  There is a reason why everyone made fun of the disproportionate amount of 2D platformers on the Wii U because they're talking about innovation and they're giving us stuff that would have been seen as retro on the N64!  The Wii was pretty a generation of Nintendo doing mostly the same stuff they've done for decades but with button presses mapped to controller shakes.  When I play games on the other consoles I'm blown away by how damn OLD Nintendo's new games feel in comparison.  Most of their games feel small and quaint, like the Cube/PS2/Xbox era was the furthest they were comfortable going.  And in the case of Mario it's like Super Mario 64 is too advanced for them and they have to go backwards with these NSMB games.

Nintendo is all talk, no action.  This "controller over graphics" is at best some naïve ideology that doesn't work in practice but I'm pretty cynical so I think it's just an outright con.  They don't WANT to keep with the times so they're hoping to fool everyone with this controller nonsense and it worked on the Wii because they appealed to a non-gaming crowd that isn't familiar enough with standard gaming conventions to notice.  Regardless of what it is, Nintendo can't feed us this crap because everyone knows it is crap.  If you're going to be stale at least be stale like the rest of the industry and follow the conventions.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 21, 2015, 08:42:40 PM
I think you misunderstood.  I was telling my opinion.  I was speaking on behave of Nintendo's ideals.  I was remembering quotes from Nintendo employees and elaborating on them. 

Whether you agree with Nintendo's ideals or not, that is what Nintendo believes.  But I will say you have to have innovation in all 3 areas, games first, hardware second...and hardware innovation is both controller/user interaction with the game and hardware as in graphical and CPU power.  The problem is Nintendo hasn't really given Nintendo users the complete package.  Maybe with the DS and 3DS Nintendo has come close...but the biggest part of the user interaction Nintendo neglects is the online user experience...but this is a pretty big oversight. 

I wonder if the Wii console had a great online experience similar to Xbox live, and graphics and hardware that made porting easier if the Wii would not have done even better.  Nintendo's biggest mistake with the Wii U was the tablet controller.  I keep on wondering if Nintendo didn't sink so much R&D in that and priced the system the same, but include more RAM faster CPU and GPU closer to the eventual PS4 and Xbox One, and pushed for more refined Motion controls what would have happened? 

And Ian for some reason Nintendo decided the easiest way to make money was to play of nostalgia...this is what lead to cheap 2D sequels...and they are good games, but the are more supplemental games and should not have been the main games for release in that year.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on December 22, 2015, 09:27:48 AM
I wholeheartedly disagree with the Nostalgia thing, look at Hollywood, walk down any toy isle in any store, everything that sells right now is based heavily on Nostalgia, the two biggest movies at the box office this year are nothing BUT nostalgia. In fact a lot of what is driving PS4 sales is the nostalgia factor, not just for the games but also the whole system reminds people of a time when Playstation just got it. I went into Wal-Mart disgusted at their selection of over priced card games, not just the prices but the awful design and was sad I wouldn't be buying my family the Uno and Skip-Bo games I wanted, went across the street to Target and they had, what do you know "retro" card decks on a shelf right next to all the "retro" toys I was looking for, including light brite and etch a sketch. retro and nostalgia is what sells right now, that will might wear off but I am not so sure. And for what it is worth the nostalgia factor alone was what got me to get a Wii U, it was NES Remix, Hyrule Warriors, New Super Mario Bros., DKC:TP, and Super Mario World that sold me, not Bayonetta that I played and didn't like on Playstation, or Wonderful 101 that reminds me too much of Disney, or Zombie U that looked like just another soulless zombie game.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on December 22, 2015, 12:11:32 PM
And Ian for some reason Nintendo decided the easiest way to make money was to play of nostalgia...this is what lead to cheap 2D sequels...and they are good games, but the are more supplemental games and should not have been the main games for release in that year.

They're perfectly acceptable games but when you're designing your console in such a way that it effectively jettisons a ridiculous amount of games that appear on every console but your's and you're talking up this controller as your big ace in the hole and the key to all this promised innovation, you can't then pretty much ignore the controller and release retro style games that could have been made 20 years ago.  I don't think it would have even mattered if the third party support was there.  Nintendo could easily get away with making good but not particularly innovative titles if they didn't set things up so that THEY ALONE have to carry the whole system.  They create more pressure on their own games to deliver and then intentionally make unambitious titles.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 22, 2015, 01:57:24 PM
Playing to nostalgia is one of Nintendo's strengths. It could be and has been argued that they emphasize that aspect too much. Also, I find it really funny you referred to Zombi U as "soulless" given how much it cribs from the Demon's/Dark Souls games.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on December 22, 2015, 02:05:18 PM
I just don't think Nintendo's style of games lend themselves very well to a big epic blockbuster type that dominates the other two. I think they hit their peek with Game Cube, they know this, and the best they can do now is bring that level into HD and hope for the best.

I honestly don't think anyone can truly predict what Nintendo is going to do because I think even Nintendo themselves are clueless as to why one thing works one time and not the next. But to be completely honest, NX is their last chance to get back into the game proper, if they fail again their brand image will be far to tainted to ever make a real come back, they will have to resort to chasing Wii gamers forever and that business model relies too much on dumb luck.

There are rumors that Sega is about to get back into the hardware game, not on the scale of what the other three are doing but what I read of it sounds more like what Nintendo should be doing, a cheap, retro style console that relies heavily on their own catalog and caters to their core demographic.

If they want to chase the hard core mainstream crowd forget it that is a losing battle, there has always only been room for one dominant console the other two fighting it out for second place, Sony pretty much figured out back in 1995 how to be that dominant console and they made ONE misstep along the way, that that quickly rectified. Nintendo has had ONE hit based entirely on blind luck to get them through and sticking to their guns on the handheld arena.

BUT if they ignore the Call of Duty/Madden/Grand Theft Auto crowd and make a console like Wii, cheap to make and cheap to make games for, with traditional controls, a name that doesn't alienate their audience, and strictly focuses on a balance of retro and modern Nintendo only stuff they will find their audience. To compete they need to be cheap and stick to their guns, this is a strategy that works for them, trying to be on the same level as Sony does not work for them because they cannot go all in. Even with Game Cube they skimped on the hardware, it was mostly on par or better than Ps2 but DVD, no serious online component and the lunch box design all turned gamers and developers away in droves.

If they refuse to go all in, then they HAVE to dig their heels in and stand their ground, and a console that closely unites their handheld division is the best they can do then that is what they will do. What they really need though above ALL is a damn traditional controller and a name that doesn't piss people off.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on December 22, 2015, 02:06:21 PM
Playing to nostalgia is one of Nintendo's strengths. It could be and has been argued that they emphasize that aspect too much. Also, I find it really funny you referred to Zombi U as "soulless" given how much it cribs from the Demon's/Dark Souls games.

I was agreeing with that aspect, Nostalgia is what they do best, it was Ian who suggested they shouldn't or something like that. As for Soulless, I hate zombie games they are stupid. I hate the whole concept of Zombies honestly.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Triforce Hermit on December 22, 2015, 02:29:51 PM
Splatoon didn't cater to nostalgia and yet it is one of the most important games Nintendo has released in years.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on December 22, 2015, 02:51:58 PM
Nintendo nostalgia appeals to the diehards that bought the Wii U at launch.  The general public does not want to spend any serious amount of money on a whole console that plays nostalgic Nintendo titles and nothing else.  I think the nostalgic angle would ironically work best if Nintendo was a third party developer.  On the PS4 a game like NSMB would probably be very popular.  It's a game that a lot of gamers would gladly buy if they had the hardware for it already but would not buy a console for.  If you want to make videogame consoles you need to offer people a real incentive to buy it.  "Hey here is some retro-style game that realistically we could have done on old hardware but we want you to buy a whole new console for" is a **** sales pitch.

Triforce Hermit pointed out that Splatoon was a brand new game and it has been a pretty big hit for a new IP on a console no one owns.  The Wii U is being talked about at my work and it's not NSMB or Mario Kart or anything like that that's created the buzz.  It's Xenoblade because it's big and ambitious.  That's the sort of stuff people buy consoles for, to see where videogames can go.

Nintendo "peaked" at the Cube simply because Iwata led them down that path.  They basically stuck with the same generation for 11 years and have been a generation behind ever since.  It's hard to make cutting edge and innovative games when you're not even caught up with the rest of the industry.  But I think titles like Splatoon show that Nintendo can be more than a nostalgia act if they actually TRY.  Besides they made Super Mario Galaxy last gen.  When they try to do something new and interesting with Mario it results in the cutting edge of platforming.  When they don't we get cliché sidescrollers.  It's their choice to focus on such titles.  There are rumours that open-world Zelda has run into development problems.  Not surprising since Nintendo was making Cube games with waggle while every other developer was branching into the open-world genre.  Nintendo's own decisions left them behind and they now have to learn the ropes and still deliver something that meets present-day expectations.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on December 22, 2015, 03:29:41 PM
Nintendo nostalgia appeals to the diehards that bought the Wii U at launch.  The general public does not want to spend any serious amount of money on a whole console that plays nostalgic Nintendo titles and nothing else.  I think the nostalgic angle would ironically work best if Nintendo was a third party developer.  On the PS4 a game like NSMB would probably be very popular.  It's a game that a lot of gamers would gladly buy if they had the hardware for it already but would not buy a console for.  If you want to make videogame consoles you need to offer people a real incentive to buy it.  "Hey here is some retro-style game that realistically we could have done on old hardware but we want you to buy a whole new console for" is a **** sales pitch.

Triforce Hermit pointed out that Splatoon was a brand new game and it has been a pretty big hit for a new IP on a console no one owns.  The Wii U is being talked about at my work and it's not NSMB or Mario Kart or anything like that that's created the buzz.  It's Xenoblade because it's big and ambitious.  That's the sort of stuff people buy consoles for, to see where videogames can go.

Nintendo "peaked" at the Cube simply because Iwata led them down that path.  They basically stuck with the same generation for 11 years and have been a generation behind ever since.  It's hard to make cutting edge and innovative games when you're not even caught up with the rest of the industry.  But I think titles like Splatoon show that Nintendo can be more than a nostalgia act if they actually TRY.  Besides they made Super Mario Galaxy last gen.  When they try to do something new and interesting with Mario it results in the cutting edge of platforming.  When they don't we get cliché sidescrollers.  It's their choice to focus on such titles.  There are rumours that open-world Zelda has run into development problems.  Not surprising since Nintendo was making Cube games with waggle while every other developer was branching into the open-world genre.  Nintendo's own decisions left them behind and they now have to learn the ropes and still deliver something that meets present-day expectations.


While I agree Splatoon is new and original, it is an idea long time Nintendo fans have been asking for a long time, it's just a unique spin on the Mario Paintball game.

And nobody is saying nostalgia is ALL they do but is sure as hell is what they do best, not just now but GBA name ten titles that weren't ports, remakes, or blatant rip offs of SNES games? It can be done but you will be naming crap nobody bought.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on December 22, 2015, 05:25:26 PM
Nintendo nostalgia appeals to the diehards that bought the Wii U at launch.  The general public does not want to spend any serious amount of money on a whole console that plays nostalgic Nintendo titles and nothing else.  I think the nostalgic angle would ironically work best if Nintendo was a third party developer.  On the PS4 a game like NSMB would probably be very popular.  It's a game that a lot of gamers would gladly buy if they had the hardware for it already but would not buy a console for.  If you want to make videogame consoles you need to offer people a real incentive to buy it.  "Hey here is some retro-style game that realistically we could have done on old hardware but we want you to buy a whole new console for" is a **** sales pitch.

Triforce Hermit pointed out that Splatoon was a brand new game and it has been a pretty big hit for a new IP on a console no one owns.  The Wii U is being talked about at my work and it's not NSMB or Mario Kart or anything like that that's created the buzz.  It's Xenoblade because it's big and ambitious.  That's the sort of stuff people buy consoles for, to see where videogames can go.

Nintendo "peaked" at the Cube simply because Iwata led them down that path.  They basically stuck with the same generation for 11 years and have been a generation behind ever since.  It's hard to make cutting edge and innovative games when you're not even caught up with the rest of the industry.  But I think titles like Splatoon show that Nintendo can be more than a nostalgia act if they actually TRY.  Besides they made Super Mario Galaxy last gen.  When they try to do something new and interesting with Mario it results in the cutting edge of platforming.  When they don't we get cliché sidescrollers.  It's their choice to focus on such titles.  There are rumours that open-world Zelda has run into development problems.  Not surprising since Nintendo was making Cube games with waggle while every other developer was branching into the open-world genre.  Nintendo's own decisions left them behind and they now have to learn the ropes and still deliver something that meets present-day expectations.


While I agree Splatoon is new and original, it is an idea long time Nintendo fans have been asking for a long time, it's just a unique spin on the Mario Paintball game.

And nobody is saying nostalgia is ALL they do but is sure as hell is what they do best, not just now but GBA name ten titles that weren't ports, remakes, or blatant rip offs of SNES games? It can be done but you will be naming crap nobody bought.

The GBA was notoriously bad for rehashed ports and probably would not have gotten away with that if it had any competition in the handheld market.  I'm pretty sure the N-Gage was the only competing handheld during the GBA's life.

I would say Nintendo does nostalgia best simply because it's what they spend a lot of time and effort doing.  No one just starts off as a nostalgia brand.  Nintendo built a legacy when those brands were all new.  They started getting a little too self-referential around the Cube era, which had disappointing sales.  Then they bounced back with the Wii which sold to a new audience and it's big killer app in Wii Sports was a completely new IP.  Then we have the Wii U which is a notorious flop.

They have this mistaken assumption that the same tired Mario stuff moves units.  Nope.  Didn't on the Gamecube, sold big on the Wii which attracted a large audience with a brand new IP unrelated to Mario, didn't on the Wii U.  Why do they think something like Mario Kart was such a massive hit on the Wii while it failed to move Cubes and now failed to move Wii U's?  It's because the nostalgia doesn't bring people to the console, it's something they get after something else inspires them to get the console.  After Wii Sports sold Wii's and created a large userbase, games like NSMB and Mario Kart Wii sold like gangbusters to that established userbase.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Spak-Spang on December 22, 2015, 06:56:38 PM
Ian Said:  "They're perfectly acceptable games but when you're designing your console in such a way that it effectively jettisons a ridiculous amount of games that appear on every console but your's and you're talking up this controller as your big ace in the hole and the key to all this promised innovation, you can't then pretty much ignore the controller and release retro style games that could have been made 20 years ago.  I don't think it would have even mattered if the third party support was there.  Nintendo could easily get away with making good but not particularly innovative titles if they didn't set things up so that THEY ALONE have to carry the whole system.  They create more pressure on their own games to deliver and then intentionally make unambitious titles."

I completely agree with this.

Triforce Hermit:  Splatoon proves that Nintendo still knows how to make great games.  They had a team explore a concept....found the simple mechanics were fun and different.  Then worked to figure out how to move those concepts into a viable game.  Their effort in development paid off, and the game is a blast.  The sequel will be even better when they add voice chat, 4 team battles and such.  Actually I love the idea of Splatoon with 4 teams battling it out.  talk about strategy and planning needed for those matches. 

At any rate, the truth is Nintendo hasn't peaked...but Nintendo did panic and started trying to just magic money as quickly as possible to prove to their shareholders Nintendo isn't irrelevant and that they management is still capable of making smart decisions for the future of the company.
 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 22, 2015, 09:35:11 PM
The issue always comes back to the fact that Nintendo is generally very conservative in their business practices. On one hand, that's allowed them to survive as a company for over a century, and to survive lean periods like they've faced recently. On the other, they rely too heavily on the things they already know work, and don't try to push the envelope as much as they should. I'm not suggesting they go full-Sony, all out ambition and overextension, but if they're going to get back to being a major player in this business they're going to have to be more willing to take risks.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 23, 2015, 01:00:05 AM
Once again people seem to forget the 3DS even exist.  The 3DS alone shows Nintendo is still one of the biggest and most popular publishers in the industry.  Many of the 3DS top sellers are the newest installments of these franchises that still sell at numbers similar to what they did 20 years ago, and some like Fire Emblem are more popular then ever.  If Nintendo was selling on only nostalgia alone which some say is making them irrelevant, then their 3DS titles should be selling worse then their GBA counterparts since that was the last system before what people like Ian say Nintendo sold out to the casuals.  But the 3DS, despite having the heaviest competition Nintendo has ever had thanks to smartphones, which some people say the casuals that made the DS and Wii popular have moved to, is still selling software at number similar to the GBA and in many cases even higher then it's GBA counterparts.

The Wii U's problem wasn't because of the games they made for it not being popular anymore, it's because they released similar games on the much cheaper 3DS earlier.  Mario 3D Land and NSMB 2 are both 10 million sellers on the 3DS, which is much better then 99% games on the Xbox and Playstation will ever sell.  Except for Minecraft, every other 10 million plus seller on a non-Nintendo consoles pretty much requires a 100 million plus budget which includes development and marketing and being released on Xbox/PS and PC combined to achieve such result.  Nintendo on the other hand can achieve these sales on just one system with less then 5% of the same budget.

Yes making more games like Splatoon is useful especially so the home console has more unique software but this logic that Nintendo is now some niche company that only it's longtime fans still support is rather ridicules.  Unless you're going to argue the current over 54 million 3DS owner are all longtime hardcore Nintendo fans, in which case, over 50 million fans is far from niche.  Either way, Nintendo is still in a pretty healthy position from a software lineup.  They just need to do a better job at giving diversity between the home and handheld again so people have a bigger reason to own the more expensive home console.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ShyGuy on December 23, 2015, 01:35:48 AM
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2015-12-21/modernizing-super-mario-how-nintendo-has-reinvented-its-star

Quote
Tezuka declined to comment whether Mario will make an appearance on the smartphone screen. He also wouldn’t talk about the successor to the Wii U console, code-named NX.

“We feel quite strongly about creating things that are in sync with the times,” he said with a smile, a hand on the plush stuffed Mario doll at his side.

What does it mean? What does it mean?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on December 23, 2015, 09:34:30 AM

2003 George Harrison: "And of course Mario will never start shooting hookers"

2015 Takashi Tezuka: "We feel quite strongly about creating things that are in sync with the times, he said with a smile, a hand on the plush stuffed Mario doll at his side."
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Triforce Hermit on December 23, 2015, 09:37:31 AM
Nintendo handhelds sell the majority based on Pokemon alone.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 23, 2015, 09:39:48 AM
Nintendo handhelds sell because the overwhelming majority of competitors they've ever seen have been massive flops, and the one that was reasonably successful had the misfortune of going against the best selling game system in the history of the industry.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on December 23, 2015, 01:02:13 PM
This is true, but Nintendo's dominance in that area isn't going to change any time soon. The NX handheld should sell like gangbusters.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on December 23, 2015, 01:21:41 PM
The issue always comes back to the fact that Nintendo is generally very conservative in their business practices. On one hand, that's allowed them to survive as a company for over a century, and to survive lean periods like they've faced recently. On the other, they rely too heavily on the things they already know work, and don't try to push the envelope as much as they should. I'm not suggesting they go full-Sony, all out ambition and overextension, but if they're going to get back to being a major player in this business they're going to have to be more willing to take risks.

Nintendo is conservative in a really weird way.  Here I am asking them to just make something conventional.  You figure a conservative company would have the problem of being TOO conventional but instead Nintendo is notorious for doing things in a weirdo Nintendo way.  The Wii was actually a HUGE risk.  Forgo a traditional hardware spec upgrade in favour of a non-traditional controller and have the controller be the only unique element of the console that would differentiate it from it's predecessor?  No one ever had done something like that before and if the controller flopped the whole thing was fucked.  But it paid off in spades and then Nintendo started being very safe with their releases.

Sticking with outdated hardware is not really conservative because it's completely different than what everyone else is doing and what everyone else had done before.  But then it really is just Nintendo's refusal to move from cartridges to discs or go online being extended to hardware.  So in that sense it is conservative but it's kind of not because Nintendo themselves always updated their hardware so they weren't going with what they always did.

Nintendo seems to be conservative on stuff where all of their competitors are moving up and they're the only ones staying behind.  And then they're very progressive on routine things where no one wants them to change what isn't broke but they force some wacky Nintendo way that generally flops.  You know what word actually describes them?  CONTRARY.  Nintendo's method is to do things different than everyone else does.  If everyone else changes something, Nintendo stays put.  If everyone else is sticking with something, Nintendo comes up with their own way to do it.  It's the sort of thing that lets them come up with brilliant ideas but 99% of the time just has them going with a stupid idea because the obvious good idea is already being done by everyone else.

What they should aim to be is to be the BETTER company.  Follow conventions when it's routine stuff that customers expect to work a certain way and then compliment that with new approaches when you think of a way to do things better - not arbitrarily different but actually better.  The games is where people want Nintendo to do new creative things, not the controller or the online infrastructure or the hardware or the stuff that's generally functional and doesn't call for creativity.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on December 23, 2015, 03:04:46 PM
The Wii wasn't really a risk from a business standpoint. Creatively it was a huge risk, but the thing was cheap to build, cheap to develop for, and had a massive profit margin from day one. Worst case scenario it flops and they quickly move on from it to something else. I guarantee you they had a backup plan for that scenario that they just never needed.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 23, 2015, 03:51:54 PM
The Wii wasn't really a risk from a business standpoint. Creatively it was a huge risk, but the thing was cheap to build, cheap to develop for, and had a massive profit margin from day one. Worst case scenario it flops and they quickly move on from it to something else. I guarantee you they had a backup plan for that scenario that they just never needed.

Yep it's the same reason the DS was considered a third pillar until its sales exploded at the end of 2005.

That is what's rather funny about this gen.  People complain Nintendo has been too conservative when from a business standpoint, they were more reckless with the 3DS and Wii U then any previous hardware.  They thought after the DS and Wii that both successors would be a sure hit and released for the first time in history two systems that were being sold for a loss at launch.  So when the 3DS sold like **** after launch, they made an emergency price cut that helped save the system, but resulted in them taking their first ever yearly loss as a result.  Because of this they've been unable to drop the Wii U's price more because such a thing would cause an even bigger loss even if hardware sales would have benefited from it.

This is why I imagine the number one goal for NX hardware is to be profitable from day one so if worst comes to worst again, they'll have room to drop the price without breaking the bank and still retain better profits.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on December 23, 2015, 07:58:21 PM
The Wii wasn't really a risk from a business standpoint. Creatively it was a huge risk, but the thing was cheap to build, cheap to develop for, and had a massive profit margin from day one. Worst case scenario it flops and they quickly move on from it to something else. I guarantee you they had a backup plan for that scenario that they just never needed.

How is having a console flop just something you move on from?  You have to design games for the replacement product for starters.  The replacement product for a Wii flop is an Xbox 360 equivalent and we know from Nintendo's Wii U experience that they can't just casually whip up some HD games at a moment's notice.  If the Wii flopped Nintendo would pretty much have to just go on console hiatus for a bit to get a replacement ready.  And there's also the damage to reputation a weirdo console that flops would have.  If Nintendo had released something conventional it could underperform like the Cube but likely not outright flop.

Nintendo was pretty much risking their whole reputation on a product that was way different than any game system ever made and had it flopped there would be no way for them to finish the generation in anything but last place due to the ground they would give up while they scrambled for a replacement.  It's was either going to take off or Nintendo would lose the generation almost immediately.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: nickmitch on December 24, 2015, 08:33:20 PM
Yeah, a new console is always a business risk.  Even from a manufacturing standpoint, you'd have unsold inventory just lying around your warehouses and factories that have to be reworked for your backup plan.  Then you have angry retailers while unsold inventory either asking that you buy back the inventory or discounting the crap out of it. 

Having a positive contribution margin mitigates risk, sure.  But you still lose money if you don't sell enough units.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Luigi Dude on December 25, 2015, 01:01:02 AM
Yeah, a new console is always a business risk.  Even from a manufacturing standpoint, you'd have unsold inventory just lying around your warehouses and factories that have to be reworked for your backup plan.  Then you have angry retailers while unsold inventory either asking that you buy back the inventory or discounting the crap out of it. 

Having a positive contribution margin mitigates risk, sure.  But you still lose money if you don't sell enough units.

That's why the Wii was so hard to find and constantly sold out the first several months of it's life.  Nintendo played it safe expecting Gamecube level sales at launch so when the system became as popular as it did it took months to ramp higher production.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ShyGuy on December 31, 2015, 06:26:21 PM
My Current theory for the NX: September '16 release of the hand held with weird screen, scroll wheel buttons, and external sensors for... something. coming in at a mass market $199.  TV/Console add on comes early '17 with added horsepower.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Parallax Scroll on January 06, 2016, 12:39:44 AM

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1166717


Quote
Nintendo slipped 5% in Tokyo after Nomura Securities said the mysterious new console NX, to be unveiled this June, will cannibalize the existing sales of 3DS and Wii U.


According to analyst Junko Yamamura, Nintendo will make NX available by 2016 year-end’s shopping season. Nomura expects Nintendo to announce the “concept” sometime between March and May, unveil the actual console in June, and launch it between October and November. “We think the NX will start to boost operating profits in 18/3, when it will have been on the market for a full year and will have a line-up of software titles, which carry high operating margins.”


http://blogs.barrons.com/asiastocks/2016/01/05/nintendo-slips-nx-to-eat-into-3ds-wii-u-nomura-cuts-target/?mod=yahoobarrons&ru=yahoo
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Shaymin on January 06, 2016, 07:02:41 AM
...no **** a new system would affect sales of the old one.

Nintendo should go private, honestly.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 06, 2016, 09:40:46 AM
Nintendo should go private, honestly.

Pretty much, of course that's one of the reasons why Iwata spent like a billion dollars to buy most of Yamauchi's shares after he died from his family a few years ago.  Nintendo is at least aware how stupid many of their investors are and made the necessary steps to insure these idiots aren't able to gain even more power, because if they did the company would pretty much turn into Konami.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: rlse9 on January 06, 2016, 12:57:47 PM
Wow, that's just ridiculous, does Apple's stock take a hit when rumors of the iPhone 7 mean that the iPhone 6 is going to take a hit in sales?  I wonder what the stock price would have done if they had announced that the NX wouldn't impact 3DS/Wii U sales.  "It's not really of interest to anyone buying the products we currently make, but it's ok because it won't impact their sales at all..."
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Parallax Scroll on January 06, 2016, 01:14:39 PM

This is interesting.


http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=191406998&postcount=614


Quote from: Kiddy Dong;191406998
For those of you hungry for some leaks, there's a guy on reddit who claims he has access to the NX's operating system. He says he's part of a group contracted by Nintendo to find exploits in the OS to run unsigned code (homebrew).


According to him, the OS build for NX compiles for ARM, and there's another build which compiles for PowerPC (likely for a Wii U OS update). There's also drivers for Google Fi, which he says lends credibility for a portable device. It also makes heavy use of Material Design in the OS.


https://np.reddit.com/r/NintendoNX/comments/3xuumg/rumor_nintendo_to_unveil_nx_in_january_at_ces/cyasp1u (https://np.reddit.com/r/NintendoNX/comments/3xuumg/rumor_nintendo_to_unveil_nx_in_january_at_ces/cyasp1u)


Of course, this is the internet and you'd be a fool to not take this information with a grain of salt. But judging from his post history, he seems like he knows what he's talking about. It's certainly believable enough, and reads like it's relevant developer information as opposed to wild fan speculation. Take it or leave it, I guess.


The guy on reddit seems to have some believable, developer-centered (not fanboy-centered) information.


As always, take with a grain of salt.

Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on January 07, 2016, 01:40:58 AM
I would just like to comment on a few statements made earlier in this thread, but first I would like to address the Wii U. Has anyone ever considered that it's stupid design and nature was an excuse to easily transition its products into handheld backwards compatibility? I mean, the clamshell design of the DS is comfortable (in my opinion), portable, and makes for great screen economy, so the Wii U being a more direct transition into NX as a handheld would justfiy a lot of its under-usage of gyro, emphasis on DS virtual console, and scaled back tech.

Eh, I'm tired. I'll tackle the other comments tomorrow.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: nickmitch on January 07, 2016, 02:17:39 PM
Splatoon didn't cater to nostalgia and yet it is one of the most important games Nintendo has released in years.

I would say Splatoon is one of the most important games Nintendo has released in years because it didn't cater to nostalgia.

Nintendo should go private, honestly.

Pretty much, of course that's one of the reasons why Iwata spent like a billion dollars to buy most of Yamauchi's shares after he died from his family a few years ago.  Nintendo is at least aware how stupid many of their investors are and made the necessary steps to insure these idiots aren't able to gain even more power, because if they did the company would pretty much turn into Konami.

Meh. Stock price doesn't really impact your financials.  Nintendo needed Yamauchi's shares to prevent them from hiring and firing management all willy-nilly. Market over reactions are always to be expected.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ShyGuy on January 08, 2016, 12:21:46 AM
As a counter argument, Splatoon caters to turn of the century Nickelodeon/Dreamcast Nostalgia.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: nickmitch on January 08, 2016, 12:22:25 PM
I don't know if you'd call it "nostalgia".  It doesn't invoke that "yearning" for an older time as much as it tries to invoke the same kinds of ideas.  The silly, messy, colorful fun doesn't make me think "Yeah, 90s stuff!" but I'd be lying if I said that bright orange paint doesn't make me think of Nickelodeon.  So, maybe it's the same.  Maybe it's just not invoking nostalgia in a way that isn't exploitative and repetitive though like those buzzfeed articles that are all, "Here's a bunch of .gifs from 90s shows!".
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on January 08, 2016, 04:46:48 PM
At one time all those games that inspire this nostalgia craze actually were cutting edge, original ideas. So what ever happened to the Nintendo that had more than ONE new franchise per generation? Is Splatoon really their only original idea for Wii U? If so then NX might be in trouble. Wii did both nostalgia and original very well, the problem was it did nostalgia too well and original wasn't always good.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: nickmitch on January 08, 2016, 06:15:12 PM
Well, they bought original ideas from Platinum.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 08, 2016, 06:28:57 PM
Well, they bought original ideas from Platinum.

That's a fair point, Nintendo has a history of commissioning outside companies to produce new ideas for them.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: nickmitch on January 10, 2016, 12:42:33 AM
Yeah, it really speaks to how Nintendo is getting "too small" to maintain two consoles.  They really need to expand either organically (hiring) or inorganically (buying).  Personally, I'd like to see both.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 10, 2016, 12:59:45 AM
That's some of the logic in setting up so that at least some games are playable across both platforms. If one team can support both of them simultaneously that increases their reach without much more in the way of resources.

What I want to see though, is build a new studio from scratch, in the vein of EAD Tokyo, on a more regular basis. Nintendo built that team over a decade ago, and it's gone on to make some of the best games the company's put out in that span, but they haven't tried to do it again. They need to be putting together a team like that every 4 or 5 years, at least.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: nickmitch on January 10, 2016, 02:45:19 PM
That's some of the logic in setting up so that at least some games are playable across both platforms. If one team can support both of them simultaneously that increases their reach without much more in the way of resources.

See, I think that will only hurt the situation, if you currently own both platforms.  Just for the sake of argument, let's say Nintendo has capacity to make 10 games a year, 5 handheld, 5 console.  A platform that scales up/down still limits you to 10 games.  However, some of those handheld games will scale up, to some degree, meaning they need extra development time (whether that's HD graphics or a splitscreen mode).  That slows down the handheld releases.  So, you kind of end up in a situation where you get more Wii U games at the expense of 3DS games.  Now, if you just had a Wii U, then that's gravy.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 10, 2016, 03:36:04 PM
Something like the next New Super Mario Bros. game could be on both without much extra work. You'd need better art assets for the console version, but you could just start with those and scale them back when necessary. I don't think it'd be much of a hindrance.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 10, 2016, 05:16:57 PM
If NX is really just an updated Wii U, and not x86_64-based (or hell, even 64-bit ARM), then they might as well not even waste their time making the system.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 10, 2016, 06:26:05 PM
If Nintendo is listening to third parties even a tiny bit there's no way Hollywood and Broadway are staying in there another cycle. ARM makes a lot of sense for Nintendo's MO, with the DS and 3DS bot using it, as well as the mobile phone platforms they're starting to support. I honestly think that's more likely than them going x86 like PS4 and Xbox One.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 10, 2016, 06:34:17 PM
This is interesting.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=191406998&postcount=614 (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=191406998&postcount=614)
Quote from: Kiddy Dong;191406998
For those of you hungry for some leaks, there's a guy on reddit who claims he has access to the NX's operating system. He says he's part of a group contracted by Nintendo to find exploits in the OS to run unsigned code (homebrew).

According to him, the OS build for NX compiles for ARM, and there's another build which compiles for PowerPC (likely for a Wii U OS update). There's also drivers for Google Fi, which he says lends credibility for a portable device. It also makes heavy use of Material Design in the OS.

https://np.reddit.com/r/NintendoNX/comments/3xuumg/rumor_nintendo_to_unveil_nx_in_january_at_ces/cyasp1u (https://np.reddit.com/r/NintendoNX/comments/3xuumg/rumor_nintendo_to_unveil_nx_in_january_at_ces/cyasp1u)

Of course, this is the internet and you'd be a fool to not take this information with a grain of salt. But judging from his post history, he seems like he knows what he's talking about. It's certainly believable enough, and reads like it's relevant developer information as opposed to wild fan speculation. Take it or leave it, I guess.

The guy on reddit seems to have some believable, developer-centered (not fanboy-centered) information.

As always, take with a grain of salt.

So what this "rumor" sounds like to me is that Nintendo is finally working closely with Google to get the base programming right, so they have a solid software foundation to Nintendofy across formats.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ThePerm on January 11, 2016, 03:39:57 PM
Its not too much to ask for to have their new console be more powerful than xbox one and ps4.

They are already 2+ year old systems. Have at least the same clock speed, have more cores, higher amount of ram. AMD should give Nintendo a discount because they have been doing business with them for a long time, it seems like they had preference over Nintendo, and then suddenly Microsoft got the good ****.

Looking at the comparison between xboxone and ps4, i never knew they were that similar! Both have the same family of APU and GPU processors, the same amount of ram....jeez.

By now using an AMD Jaguar chip in a console must be pretty cheap. With a Radeon GCN.  So millions of these related chips have been selling in 2 consoles. The more of these chips they sell the cheaper they are by economy of trade.

Nintendo could re-use these chips, double the ram, and put in the wii u processors for backwards compatibility.

That would make sense...probably not happening.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 11, 2016, 04:41:25 PM
Its not too much to ask for to have their new console be more powerful than xbox one and ps4.

This is such a frustrating sentence.  11 years ago I would never feel like asking for a console to be more powerful than ones from two years before is something that needs to be worded in a delicate way.  We didn't ask, we assumed, because there was no other way to go about it.  Yet here I find that if Nintendo is even on-par that that would be worth celebrating.  Let's not mince words.  The NX is more powerful than the other consoles or it will flop.  Not a discussion.  That is the bare minimum requirement for a success.

Looking at the comparison between xboxone and ps4, i never knew they were that similar! Both have the same family of APU and GPU processors, the same amount of ram....jeez.

I think that just demonstrates how hard it will be for Nintendo to regain any third party support if they get cute and do too many things in a goofy Nintendo way.  The other consoles get largely the same games because it is so easy to port between the two of them.  The XB1 isn't even doing that well but if it's really easy and cheap to get your game on that platform as well, why not?  If you have to jump through hoops for a console that has a small market share?  That can limit the profit margin quite a lot if you have to put any serious development time into it.  You have your sales potential, which is limited by the userbase size, and you have the development costs.  If the development costs are too high you lose money.  Simple math, simple business logic.  The sales potential is going to be low on the NX for quite a while so the development cost needs to be cheap or no one will support it and it will make perfect business sense for them not to.

Easy ports or no third party support.  No third party support, no sales.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on January 11, 2016, 04:47:52 PM
I was just going to say something similar to Ian, NX had better be more than just slightly more powerful than the other two. It needs to be DC vs. N64 at bare minimum in terms of step up, probably even higher than that. Right now the longer they wait the more my hype/hope for this machine winds down. I had been very optimistic before on the whole two consoles one OS or one machine that does both home and portable gaming, because it means more games faster. But having strong third party support also means more games faster too.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: nickmitch on January 11, 2016, 06:54:08 PM
3rd Party ports that the XBone and PS4 are getting won't save the console either.  People who want to play those games probably already have those systems.  Nintendo needs a system devs are willing to make exclusives for; good exclusives, not the crap we got on Wii.  It's gotta have a hook that makes people want to try it and that games can deliver on.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on January 12, 2016, 09:51:16 AM
3rd Party ports that the XBone and PS4 are getting won't save the console either.  People who want to play those games probably already have those systems.  Nintendo needs a system devs are willing to make exclusives for; good exclusives, not the crap we got on Wii.  It's gotta have a hook that makes people want to try it and that games can deliver on.


That is a very narrow minded view, seriously. Nintendo NEEDS those games in addition to any true exclusives they can get or else they are not going to make it. Sure a lot of people already have those machines, but a console generation can last up to ten years, there is nothing that says every single person that is going to buy an Xbox One or a PS4 already has or that every single person planning on it won't change their mind if Nintendo actually offers a true, viable, alternative. Seriously your way of thinking is the utter nonsense that has gotten Nintendo into this mess of trying too hard to be too different.

Nintendo has not made a console truly on even footing with their competition and given it the support it needs since the SNES, there is nothing to say if they did it again they couldn't be that successful especially with a sea of people buying PS4 just because they know Nintendo won't do just that. Also coming a year or two behind won't be the end of the world especially if it is B/C because that gives it a little bit to tide some people over while they make the transition and a HUGE Zelda at launch could be just the game to sway people if the console is actually capable of running the exact same games, with enhancements in some cases hopefully, in addition to exclusives.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on January 12, 2016, 10:46:36 AM
I don't know why we're arguing about power and ports when we all know the NX is a handheld.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on January 12, 2016, 11:47:21 AM
 :@
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: nickmitch on January 12, 2016, 11:51:18 AM
3rd Party ports that the XBone and PS4 are getting won't save the console either.  People who want to play those games probably already have those systems.  Nintendo needs a system devs are willing to make exclusives for; good exclusives, not the crap we got on Wii.  It's gotta have a hook that makes people want to try it and that games can deliver on.


That is a very narrow minded view, seriously. Nintendo NEEDS those games in addition to any true exclusives they can get or else they are not going to make it. Sure a lot of people already have those machines, but a console generation can last up to ten years, there is nothing that says every single person that is going to buy an Xbox One or a PS4 already has or that every single person planning on it won't change their mind if Nintendo actually offers a true, viable, alternative. Seriously your way of thinking is the utter nonsense that has gotten Nintendo into this mess of trying too hard to be too different.

Nintendo has not made a console truly on even footing with their competition and given it the support it needs since the SNES, there is nothing to say if they did it again they couldn't be that successful especially with a sea of people buying PS4 just because they know Nintendo won't do just that. Also coming a year or two behind won't be the end of the world especially if it is B/C because that gives it a little bit to tide some people over while they make the transition and a HUGE Zelda at launch could be just the game to sway people if the console is actually capable of running the exact same games, with enhancements in some cases hopefully, in addition to exclusives.

Nintendo doesn't have the mindshare that it used to.  It's past two consoles are looked at as a casual machine and a failure, respectively.  Buying a new Nintendo console is almost a risk to the consumer at this point.  I'm not saying Nintendo shouldn't get those ports, but those games coupled with another New Super Mario Bros, a barely iterative Mario Kart, and the mere promise of a new Zelda isn't going to win people over.  Especially if those games that really make the system (Splatoon, Smash, XCX) are few and far between.  Now, if Nintendo had a system where those ports could play or look better and sit alongside great Nintendo games, then they'd have something.

The console generation has already started and sales are slowing.  If you think tonnes of people will buy a Nintendo system just for the first party exclusives, then you're wrong.  The Wii U shows that.  If you think people who don't own an XBone or PS4 could be easily swayed, you'd also have another thing coming.  Those systems already have install bases, the NX would be starting from scratch.  Those systems will already have the 3rd party games (both released and in development).  Further, those systems are also going to be cheaper than a new-to-the-market console.  It's gotta have something that makes it stand out, whether it's a controller or just software design that addresses the short comings of the other consoles

The 3rd party ports are minimum requirement, sure. But I don't think Nintendo gets away with a by-the-books console on the same level as the PS4.  That console already exists.  It's the PS4. 

I don't know why we're arguing about power and ports when we all know the NX is a handheld.

Good point.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on January 12, 2016, 02:05:41 PM
The ports need to come out early and they need to be strong, otherwise there's little use in releasing an "upgraded" version of a game a year after it's original launch- hell, it's risky to do that six months after a game launches, if Watch Dogs has shown us anything.

But again, this is all if the NX is a home console. Which it isn't. I don't care what way you try to spin it, Nintendo is going to double down on its handheld success and either make something that links to a TV, or links to another device that will be released even further down the road. Because it's a stupid idea, and because that's the unconventional thing to do.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 12, 2016, 03:05:40 PM
The ports have to be there.  They won't sell anyone on the console but they have to be there.  Hell, ports isn't even the right term.  We should use "multiplatform releases".  That's what they're called on the other consoles.  It's not like the games are thought of as a PS4 release ported to the XB1 or the other way around.  Usually a developer works on a game for the PS4, XB1 and PC at the same time and releases it at the same time.  This is how the videogame market works these days.  Games are made for all non-handheld platforms at the same time and the first party exclusives are what differentiate the platforms.  Nintendo has been the lone outsider in this and that more than anything is why the Wii U flopped.  Customers expect to buy one console and have 99% of the games made show up on it with only first party releases and a handful of third party exclusives being the exception.  This is why Bayonetta fans were PISSED that the sequel was a Wii U exclusive.  It was bucking the industry convention that the first game had followed.  You're not supposed to miss out on games like that if you buy one of the "normal" consoles.

Of course Nintendo also needs really exceptional first party exclusives to make anyone want to make the switch as the expected third party games won't attract someone that owns one of the other consoles.  They need to be really impressive games, not generic 2D sidescrollers like the Wii U was trying to peddle.  It will still be hard because the time to release something like this was when the other consoles were released but Nintendo fucked that up by releasing the Wii U instead so they have to do what they can with the situation they created for themselves.  The goal of the NX should be simply to make up lost ground so that next gen they launch a console that can truly compete.  The NX's is largely a stop-gap as the Wii U is not fit to survive for a full generation, particularly when the generations are now 7 or 8 years.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ThePerm on January 12, 2016, 03:24:24 PM
If NX is only a handheld... I won't be buying it. I didn't buy 3DS because DS didn't do it for me.

Ideally NX would be a console with a controller that is as powerful as a Playstation Vita(or Wii U) when you take it on the road. When at home it's games scale up to at the bare minimum of ps4 with more ram. That was my idea months ago. The one most people liked.

probably not going to happen. I think Nintendo should for once try to do something practical.  The introductory price for ps4 was $399, the introductory price for xboxOne was $499. At that price I think they have some room to take advantage of economy of trade and Moore's law.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 12, 2016, 05:12:16 PM
Ideally NX would be a console with a controller that is as powerful as a Playstation Vita(or Wii U) when you take it on the road. When at home it's games scale up to at the bare minimum of ps4 with more ram. That was my idea months ago. The one most people liked.

Is there any way Nintendo could do something like this where the controller's specs boost the console's without causing some very weird architecture that third parties wouldn't want to support?  I'm guessing you could split the RAM between the two but not something like a CPU.  I figure this is the sort of thing Nintendo would want to do but I fear it would get into "Sega Saturn has two CPUs and no one but Sega knows what the hell to do with it" territory.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: ThePerm on January 12, 2016, 06:33:33 PM
That sounds grossly inefficient. The console can boost the handhelds specs, but not really the other way around. Like for instance. Say you were playing a game like Minecraft that requires some storage space. The console could act as a server while you are away. You can play in the world and access it via 4g or someone elses wifi. But all the stuff that is changing is happening on the consoles save file, the handheld is only accessing it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Evan_B on January 12, 2016, 07:56:47 PM
...the DS didn't do it for you? It has one of the best software libraries in video game history. What did you need it to do?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 12, 2016, 08:02:52 PM
So the ideal setup is basically a PS4 with the PS Vita as the Gamepad?  Sounds like it would be expensive.  More likely Nintendo would skimp on the specs of both to meet a lower price point (and higher profit margin; let's not BS over the REAL reason Nintendo cheaps out).  Of course if they did a skimpy spec version wouldn't it be essentially a Wii U with a 3DS controller?  Where is the appeal in that?  Doesn't seem different enough than what we currently have.

Whatever they come up with for a handheld has to be a step up from the 3DS to justify its existence and any console can't just be the Wii U again.  Any hybrid idea needs some sort of noticeable hardware boost or it's basically just a 3DS with a TV-out and a portable Wii U.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Stratos on January 12, 2016, 09:41:47 PM
NX console is a traditional, top of the line gaming console with a more traditional controller. The NX handheld can act as the gamepad for the new console. The shared framework should allow them to operate together seamlessly, but allow the handheld to operate independently as a portable system.


I would also hope for something similar to Perm's idea where the home system can act as a central hub/server for other games. Allow it to be persistent online for games like Animal Crossing, Minecraft, Tomadotchi Life, and others. Imagine being able to visit your friends AC town while they are away-or better, a shared online village that can be visited by anyone at anytime.

Then there is further encouragement for each portable version to be more about the individual person going out and exploring the world through visiting other locations or playing AR style games like Pokemon GO.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Stogi on January 12, 2016, 11:58:45 PM
I really really think it's a mistake to make the NX a $400 PS4 clone. It's also a mistake to go the gimmick route (and I mean that in the best way) as it's hard to excite a massive audience unless what you offer is truly revolutionary.

I would be conservative and make a console that pairs well with a PS4 or an Xbone. If a PS4 is steak, then NX is scotch. I'd also make it $200 max. Max. Any higher and people will have no choice but to compare it to a PS4 and Xbone, and you don't want that. Any less and people will wonder why a 3DS is so much. $200 is the perfect price point to hit a niche market between heavy hitters and handhelds.

As for features, I'd let it link up with the 3DS or 4DS to come. Better yet, I'd let it link up with phones as well. Need an extra controller in a pinch? Or having people over and want to play music and videos? Make it an AppleTV but with much, much better games. Make the thing damn easy to make games for and port games to. Focus on indie steam games, lightning fast power on - to playing transitions, and multiplayer - particularly same room multiplayer (8 controller connection at least). In terms of power, make it a notch above a WiiU. I've yet to see any reason why all of the latest and greatest games couldn't be toned down in the graphics department and still work. And besides, it's not the job of this console. The only thing that matters is the structure of the computer architecture.


Most importantly, since I'd be putting out a cheap console guaranteed to make money per sale, I'd invest in many more studios working on every type of game, from tiny even texted based games to true masterpieces. I'd aim for a game every month, small or big. I'd also offer the best profit margin to any developer willing to make a bug-free game.


As for media, I'd use the internet of course and SD cards with dual functionality. Meaning, if developers want to make a game for the NX and 4DS, they can put it on one card and the user can play it on either platform. All Nintendo would need to do is encrypt the data so publishers can decide what size the cards need to be.


And I'd make the thing tiny and usb powered. If I could have it be powered by a TV, that'd be even better but at least have it tiny. I'm thinking the size and shape of a CD but an inch thick. If it can't be that small, then make it a block.


And lastly, the controller should as comfortable as gamecube and as functional as a PS3 controller. And then allow everyone to bring their own. Allow Xbone, PS4, PS3, and 360 controllers. Allow Wii, Wii U, and pro controllers. Allow cellphones. Allow options.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Adrock on January 13, 2016, 06:40:34 AM
I don't think Nintendo really has a choice on whether NX is compared to PS4/One, regardless of price. It's going to be. End of story. The only ways Nintendo gets a console down to $200 is if it aims low on hardware or takes a bath on it. For what Nintendo needs the hardware to be capable of as far as third parties are concerned, the latter may be too steep to get the console down to $200.

I'm in the camp that Nintendo should aim high hardware-wise this time if only because it's launching mid-cycle (and that's not even the only reason). Launching higher end hardware is something Nintendo hasn't tried. While it won't magically solve every problem, it's a start and does remove one major hurdle. NX should be more capable than PS4 out of principle. At the same time, launching at $400 against a juggernaut like PS4 is setting NX up to fail. I don't normally advocate selling at a loss, but I feel like Nintendo has to out of the gate. Nintendo has to sell, consumers don't have to buy, and Nintendo is launching from an extremely weak position. Both Sony and Microsoft can drop the price so Nintendo has to anticipate that and plan accordingly. I wonder if Nintendo can take a loss and launch at $300 with better hardware than PS4.

As for the handheld, the XL model (which should be available alongside the regular one at launch) shouldn't exceed $200. No exceptions. Nintendo already played that hand, and it lost. Badly.
NX console is a traditional, top of the line gaming console with a more traditional controller. The NX handheld can act as the gamepad for the new console. The shared framework should allow them to operate together seamlessly, but allow the handheld to operate independently as a portable system.
That's how I see it based on what Nintendo has been saying for the past few years. I'm still of the opinion that console and handheld will share some games, particularly first party.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on January 13, 2016, 09:31:01 AM
Nickmitch your problem is you just assumse that PS4 console generation is arbirtraily set in stone and once committed to it people won't want to move on. I was never talking about Wii U so why did you even bring it up Wii U was a mess from the start, Nintendo has a chance to fix those mistakes. If it is JUST another Wii U, mid-generation but barely on par then no it will fail it has to be both more powerful, and support B/C with Wii U and Virtual Console, not an easy task. On top of that it needs both Nintendo exclusives, which we all agree on, and third party exclusives, which I said but you ignored somehow. And you are delusional if you think people's minds are set on a five year cycle when history has show that other consoles can launch at any time and throw everything off. N64 was a mid cycle release and it did just fine comparatively.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: nickmitch on January 13, 2016, 01:32:02 PM
Nickmitch your problem is you just assumse that PS4 console generation is arbirtraily set in stone and once committed to it people won't want to move on.

I think your problem is you ignore the current situation and think there's only a minimal impact in launching a new console so late in the generation.  You also ignore what it means for Nintendo to abandon a console mid-generation.


Quote
I was never talking about Wii U so why did you even bring it up Wii U was a mess from the start, Nintendo has a chance to fix those mistakes.

I used it as an example.  You don't have to be talking about something for me to bring it up as an example.  For instance, you bring up the N64 later. Why? No one was talking about it.  But it illustrates your point, so you talk about it.  (Which is ok.)

Quote
If it is JUST another Wii U, mid-generation but barely on par then no it will fail it has to be both more powerful, and support B/C with Wii U and Virtual Console, not an easy task.

Ok, nothing disagreeable here.  But I would like to point out that I never said Nintendo should skimp on the horsepower.  I started with saying they need a hook.

Quote
On top of that it needs both Nintendo exclusives, which we all agree on, and third party exclusives, which I said but you ignored somehow.

So, I wasn't ignoring your point.  I was saying that not enough people bought Wii Us for just the exclusives.  When I said, "Especially if those games that really make the system (Splatoon, Smash, XCX) are few and far between" I was trying to imply that you need something than just exclusives.  Wii U has exclusives, great ones.  Maybe a better way to illustrate my point is that Nintendo needs their big, shiny, sexy games to come out more frequently.  Games like NSMB U (which I intentionally mentioned earlier) and DKC:TF are great games, but nothing to get excited about.  The promise of more of those first party games could make the system.

Quote
And you are delusional if you think people's minds are set on a five year cycle when history has show that other consoles can launch at any time and throw everything off. N64 was a mid cycle release and it did just fine comparatively.

"Delusional" is a bit harsh. I never said anyone's mind was set on a five year cycle.  But the N64 was a 2 year delay.  The NX would be a 3 year delay (at least).  The N64 also paled in sales to the PS1, pretty much only beating out the Saturn, which isn't much to brag about.

Look, my initial point is that the console needs a hook.  If Nintendo put out a machine on par with a PS4, it wouldn't be enough.  The multiplatform releases are needed, sure, but that's not enough.  Normally, I'd say exclusives sell systems.  But they didn't sell the Wii U (again, just using it as an example), so I can't say that's enough either.  It needs something that makes people say, "Hey, I wanna try that" or "Wow, that looks really fun".  Admittedly, it also needs the follow through.  Wii U's hook was half-baked to say the least.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 13, 2016, 02:31:40 PM
I've yet to see any reason why all of the latest and greatest games couldn't be toned down in the graphics department and still work.

Because scaling down a game requires time and money to make an inferior version of the game that no one that owns a console with the better version would EVER bother to buy.  Such titles would only sell with people that ONLY own the NX and if that audience was worth it for third parties to target they would be releasing Wii U games.  And at it's most basic level it's the company with zero leverage demanding that third parties jump through hoops for them which is same bullshit Nintendo has been pulling for 20 YEARS and it has failed miserably all that time and suddenly NOW it's going to work?  Nintendo has no position to ask any third party developer, retailer or CUSTOMER to make any special exceptions for them.  If they require the devs to make scaled down versions they just won't get the games.  If third parties weren't willing to do that for the Wii, which is one of the best selling consoles of all time, why would they do it for the NX?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Only the best industry-leading [potato] chips!)
Post by: Stogi on January 13, 2016, 11:06:39 PM
I'm talking about game experiences, Ian and not specific games. Name one gaming experience that has to be made on the PS4 or Xbone. You can't. And like I said earlier, the NX should be a complimentary system. And it should allow the 4DS to play it's games remotely with the same gamecard. I don't see those two goals working with a huge system upgrade.

Furthermore, if you make the system architecture closely related to the PS4 and Xbone and PC, then I can see a flood of indie games coming to the NX and a few major titles. As long as it's easy to port and has the best profit margins and allows all sorts of options for control, I don't see third parties passing up an opportunity for more revenue.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 14, 2016, 08:50:39 AM
Scaling won't really be a problem if Nintendo gets on the same architecture as everyone else. It should absolutely go X86-64 on the console side (maybe even the handheld side too) because going with ARM complicates porting to NX. Assuming Nintendo takes the path of least resistance for once (e.g. X86-64), it should be aiming for NX hardware to be powerful enough that the most popular modern and current engines (e.g. Unreal Engine 4, Unity) run well on it.

NX doesn't really need more powerful hardware to run the same games as PS4 (get in the ballpark and scaling will the rest). Doing so just keeps Nintendo in a better position moving forward as a console that is launching mid-cycle. Of course, if Nintendo is planning more frequent hardware updates like some rumors suggest, maybe it doesn't think it needs to directly compete on hardware since it can just keep updating the hardware every other year or so. I don't like that strategy because that's the exact opposite reason I like buying consoles. Also, I think having different configurations is a generally bad idea because it will most likely confuse consumers.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: lolmonade on January 14, 2016, 09:42:42 AM
Glad someone updated the thread title appropriately. 


I don't envy Nintendo's situation.  The path they've paved for themselves ("hybrid' home & mobile console) sounds like it could be as costly as some of the VR solutions that are coming out, but at least for Sony/Microsoft, they can ditch support of those & focus on their core consoles if they fizzle out.  This IS Nintendo's next core business driver.


That said, I'd personally be comfortable predicting the following:


1) The NX will at best get lazy ports of Western 3rd Party developers.  At worst, it'll repeat Wii U with being primarily being the Nintendo machine.  If it's the best case scenario, Nintendo will be the only company to utilize cross functionality between NX home console & handheld in a meaningful way.


2) Nintendo's strategy isn't to be the complementary console to Sony/MSFT.  They want to be the primary machine you play on.  They may get some sales through this market, but their aim is to be the main thing you play on.


3) Lower your expectations on how capable the handheld portion will be.  While patents aren't guarantees of planned functionality (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/12/nintendo-touchscreen-controller-patent-offers-clues-about-upcoming-nx/), these patents make it look like they'd focus more on flexibility of control options rather than a core experience.  I have no expectations for a handheld portion as capable as a Vita, and moreso expect something akin to a portable accessory you can take on the go and play mobile, RPGs, RTS, & other games that require less tactile input.  I'd also expect the handheld portion to be more it's own separate console & an accessory to the home console, with the NX home portion coming with a controller similar to the Wii U Pro.


4) I expect the NX home console to have hardware comparable with PS4/Xbox One.  The Handheld to have Vita-like physical presence with more an empahsis on the front touchscreen and to not have a back touchscreen.  From a cost point, There's no way Nintendo launches NX home console over $299 - a big draw other than the killer app of motion control was the relatively cheap price point of $250.  If they want people to own both, they better find a way to get the handheld sub - $200, or at least offer a limited time discount to those who purchase the home console.



Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: MagicCow64 on January 14, 2016, 10:42:59 AM
To those expressing pre-umbrage at Nintendo's bone-headed moves: there is no solid information at all about the NX. The "rumors" are barely even that, with the most recent one haven been taken apart by people in that NeoGaf thread. Actually, the only real new information there is people mentioning that Nintendo has an especially harsh NDA for the new system(s) this time around.

Also, all this talk about porting gives way too much credence to developer complaints about the difficulty. "Oh gosh, it's just so hard! We can't do it, sorry!" I'm sure it's not as easy as porting between PS4 and Xbone, but it wasn't some crazy mountain to climb with WiiU (the guys who ported Darksiders 2 talked about how quickly they got the build running, there were plenty of other ports in the launch window), and it won't be either if the new console is Arm-based.  Third parties just don't want to do it. Removing the supposed hurdle won't start an avalanche of ports, as the publishers will just come up with some other reason or fall back on the old demographic standby. The reality is that the big houses are perfectly happy with three platforms: PS4/Xbone/PC.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: lolmonade on January 14, 2016, 12:54:47 PM
To those expressing pre-umbrage at Nintendo's bone-headed moves: there is no solid information at all about the NX. The "rumors" are barely even that, with the most recent one haven been taken apart by people in that NeoGaf thread. Actually, the only real new information there is people mentioning that Nintendo has an especially harsh NDA for the new system(s) this time around.

Also, all this talk about porting gives way too much credence to developer complaints about the difficulty. "Oh gosh, it's just so hard! We can't do it, sorry!" I'm sure it's not as easy as porting between PS4 and Xbone, but it wasn't some crazy mountain to climb with WiiU (the guys who ported Darksiders 2 talked about how quickly they got the build running, there were plenty of other ports in the launch window), and it won't be either if the new console is Arm-based.  Third parties just don't want to do it. Removing the supposed hurdle won't start an avalanche of ports, as the publishers will just come up with some other reason or fall back on the old demographic standby. The reality is that the big houses are perfectly happy with three platforms: PS4/Xbone/PC.


Just to speak briefly to the bolded above - 3rd party developers didn't quit porting to Wii U because it was too hard.  They quit porting to the Wii U because the install base is miserable, and the financial incentive isn't there.  Even if the ports of 3rd party companies made money over the cost of porting it, there's a term called opportunity cost, meaning basically "If I Port this game to Wii U, what opportunities are we missing out on by using our limited staff to focus on this instead of maybe working on project A, B, or C?".


The question may be "will this port make us money", but the bigger and right question these publishers ask are "Will this port make us more money than other projects we could have our employees working on right now?".  And the answer to that is a pretty straightforward "no". 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 14, 2016, 02:28:20 PM
Whoa whoa whoa, I'm not so sure that's the correct answer, here. Its a combination of having to make development sacrifices and loopholes for a system structured to do things efficiently in a very different way from more western-oriented philosophies, which eats up dev time and money, in addition to the system being weak, sales-wise. I believe the XBone's install base grew faster than the Wii U but they are not drastically different in terms of overall sales. Am I wrong about this?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 14, 2016, 02:57:03 PM
Nintendo is supposedly notorious for being unfriendly for third parties.  Like they won't document the console worth a **** and if you phone their support they have to contact NCL in Japan and then it takes days to get a simple response because of all the translating and back and forth between countries in different time zones.  Days and weeks of wasted time and thus wasted money go by.

So you have that plus they go with what is essentially non-standard architecture and go weak on power (prioritizing idiotic stuff like power consumption and fan noise instead) and the Wii U product itself was something that everyone but Nintendo knew was doomed to fail.  You think third party devs didn't know that Nintendo was releasing a PS3 equivalent a mere year before the PS4's launch?  They had to know in order to have time to make the PS4 launch so they knew early on that the Wii U was a dumb product and pulled out the second the weak launch sales confirmed their assumption.  The second they found out what the other guys were doing they probably realized the Wii U was screwed so they finished the projects they already started and had no intentions of supporting it further unless the launch sales were really strong.

Weak selling console with a very questionable business strategy behind it that requires MORE work to make games for than the others.  From a strictly business perspective it makes perfect sense to not bother with it.  But if it doesn't require more work and the product actually resembles something that could sell maybe they would.  It isn't like Nintendo set up this perfect product that everyone just ignored.  If Nintendo didn't give a perfectly legitimate reason to not support them would they still not get support?  Kind of hard to determine that since Nintendo never plays ball.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: lolmonade on January 14, 2016, 04:20:51 PM
Whoa whoa whoa, I'm not so sure that's the correct answer, here. Its a combination of having to make development sacrifices and loopholes for a system structured to do things efficiently in a very different way from more western-oriented philosophies, which eats up dev time and money, in addition to the system being weak, sales-wise. I believe the XBone's install base grew faster than the Wii U but they are not drastically different in terms of overall sales. Am I wrong about this?


To me at least, what you wrote is a longer version of [size=0px] [/size][/size][size=0px]"Will this port make us more money than other projects we could have our employees working on right now?".  That encompasses things like the cost of them working to understand added complexity of the Wii U.[/size]
[/size]
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Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 14, 2016, 05:46:46 PM
There is a reason why Nintendo has to abandon Wii U. Nintendo never really has abandoned a system on this level before. Things aren't working.

Nintendo's best bet is to give gamer's the system they've always wanted. The trick of the matter... What's that?

One would imagine there are five routs for that:
1 Something Weird: This is no longer working.
2 Something Practical: A clone of ps4/xbox one. This is unlikely for Nintendo.
3 High Powered Console, wii U controller that becomes portable (the price tage of which would be $400, $500, but sounds appealing.
4 Going all in on handhelds and dropping consoles.
5. A very high powered handheld, a handheld so powerful that it is more powerful than any console on the market. meaning that it is more powerful than any ipad/cellphone as well. Competing directly with Apple, but also Sony and Microsoft.
6 A powerful tablet that comes with a controller and a dongle.
7 "Bring your own tablet" console. That's one thing Nintendo with Wii u should have done was realized "hey everyone has tablets" and allowed them to hook up their controllers via usb for 2-4 players.  Microsoft has patents on some of this, but not sure what Nintendo can and cannot do.

8 Xbox One- people don't realise this, but Sony is doing way better than Microsoft. Microsoft is rumored to be selling the xbox brand. Xbox one's numbers are actually pretty comparable to Wii U's as far as units sold. Even the president said it might be a good idea publicly. All Nintendo has to do is buy the brand, throw in their new controller for xbox one, create wii u cross compatibility options, port wii u games, and piggyback on xbox's future. This would give both brands a needed push. Reunites Rare with Nintendo. Unifies some market share. If I were to announce I bought the xbox brand, the first game to announce would be a gorgeous James Bond game. This would remind all the console shooter fans where it started.  Question? whats the amount of people who have both a wii u and an xbox one in their home? Sony has 36 million consoles sold and both Microsoft and Nintendo have 10 million each. Also if they brand the xbox one Nintendo NX in Japan..sales will spike in that region.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 14, 2016, 06:01:12 PM
Nintendo's best bet is to give gamer's the system they've always wanted. The trick of the matter... What's that?

The last time they had a console that was what gamers truly wanted was the SNES.  So what's a modern SNES?  If Nintendo never went insane with cartridges on the N64 what would the Wii U have been?  Nintendo took a weird turn in 1996 and they're now miles and miles off course.  So where would they be if they didn't and how do they get there now?

What I personally want is a combination of the third party support of the PlayStation consoles with the quality first party games of Nintendo.  That's what the NES and SNES were!  It's funny that Nintendo insists on being weird all the time whole time but aside from the casual fad of the Wii (which pretty much destroyed their rep with the dedicated gamer market and sowed the seeds for the Wii U's rejection), being weird and contrary has not worked for their consoles!  The NES and SNES were incredibly straightforward.  The weird stuff like sticking with cartridges and not going online are the things that blew up in their faces yet the thought pattern that led to such idiotic ideas is what Nintendo clings to.  It's like everyone working their thinks R.O.B. is the reason the NES was successful.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 14, 2016, 06:14:25 PM
Eh, looking back I think Nintendo made the right choice with cartridges. The games are still better on n64 than on Playstation. All those FMVs look horrible(I never though much of them then anyhow) The fmvs gave allthese people a false opinion Playstation was better. It is still a false opinion. They were the gimmick.

The only thing that changed was the culture of video games. It'd be weird for Nintendo to do anything but carts. Carts work. Carts still work.  Trying to get to the second disc of your ff7? Too bad. Even if you kept your disc immaculate, chances are the drive doesn't work on your psx.

I fucking hated load times. PSX never did it for me.

Gamecube was a pretty straight forward console, but i guess it didn't have online. It didn't have shitty experimental, and slow online with generic shooters.

I think Wii hit it out of the ball park, the only problem was when they stopped making games for it 2 years early.

Wii U also was great, but third parties didn't want to have anything to do with it because it got leapfrogged by a huge margin graphically in its second year. I don't think Wii U was much more than conventional itself. They should have made it more powerful. The controller is nice, but it is expensive. It would be better if they made a straight forward power console initially, and then introduced the controller at this point.  Ideally that is what I would want. I'm still pretty satisfied with the wii u controller, if it had mult touch it would be perfect. I just want my Metroid game to have battlefront graphics.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on January 14, 2016, 07:02:53 PM
Nintendo is supposedly notorious for being unfriendly for third parties.  Like they won't document the console worth a **** and if you phone their support they have to contact NCL in Japan and then it takes days to get a simple response because of all the translating and back and forth between countries in different time zones.  Days and weeks of wasted time and thus wasted money go by.

Honestly, fixing this will likely solve their 3rd party issue more than anything.  Just having an office (or two) in NA with people trained to help developers would make a difference.  They could go all out and invite devs to workshops or make house calls.  NOA (and NOE) should have this as a core function.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 14, 2016, 07:13:24 PM
Eh, looking back I think Nintendo made the right choice with cartridges. The games are still better on n64 than on Playstation. All those FMVs look horrible(I never though much of them then anyhow) The fmvs gave allthese people a false opinion Playstation was better. It is still a false opinion. They were the gimmick.

The thing is the games left because of the cartridges and gamers followed and really that makes sense.  You just spent the last generation enjoying all these games from companies like Nintendo, Square, Capcom, Konami and then everything splits so that Nintendo is on one side and everyone else is on the other.  Unless you like Nintendo's output more than all of those other companies' combined you were going to go PlayStation.  And the people that stuck with the N64 and have stuck with Nintendo for all these years are the people the value Nintendo's output more than everyone else's put together.  Most people don't have such Nintendo-centric tastes as the Wii U demonstrates.

Really it's about money, isn't it?  Third parties didn't give a **** about load times and durability or even the superior specs of the N64.  At the core of it creating CD games was WAY cheaper so they went in that direction.  Nintendo was insisting on other businesses to spend more money on development and most of them rejected it, just like they do NOW.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 14, 2016, 07:47:11 PM
They didn't care much about making good games. You have a handful of good games on playstation. You have some games that are "good", but were overrated to me. The games that really stick out were Metal Gear,  Resident Evil, Tekken. I think ff7 is a highly flawed game, and never thought it was fun.

You have to think, it wasn't so much that Nintendo went with cartridges, they just stayed with cartridges. They had deals with companies that made cd based tech, but they fell through. You got a decade of **** not working out between Sony and Phillips. If everyone recalls it was Panasonic who finally hooked Nintendo up. CD was never going to work for Nintendo. Things finally came around in the DVD generation. Once they got situated with optical technology they were able to move forward with it.

Speaking of which. Maybe we'll be going back to carts? They're bigger than BLU-Rays now. I imagine the future is mainly digital, but there are some nice advantages to having some sort of physical media.

https://jet.com/product/detail/63f29fda27ac49ae81884a21b7668798?jcmp=pla:ggl:electronics_a2:electronics_accessories_memory_flash_memory_a2_other:na:na:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15&k_clickid=6ccd5110-69f2-4f9b-bd3a-67e75469962c&abkId=403-186666&gclid=Cj0KEQiAq920BRC8-efn57XrotYBEiQAlVlMQ-jwuUzq10vUQ-3Ex6Yv3H-EDnMsgOW8oy-ebhMUc4EaAqog8P8HAQ
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 14, 2016, 09:33:10 PM
I am prepared to give my soul to a glorious, cart-based future.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: MagicCow64 on January 15, 2016, 01:41:35 AM
Nintendo is supposedly notorious for being unfriendly for third parties.  Like they won't document the console worth a **** and if you phone their support they have to contact NCL in Japan and then it takes days to get a simple response because of all the translating and back and forth between countries in different time zones.  Days and weeks of wasted time and thus wasted money go by.

Honestly, fixing this will likely solve their 3rd party issue more than anything.  Just having an office (or two) in NA with people trained to help developers would make a difference.  They could go all out and invite devs to workshops or make house calls.  NOA (and NOE) should have this as a core function.

Yeah, that would definitely be a good move, but one that would likely end up with Nintendo taking on porting and marketing costs for these games as well, and that's probably not a climate they want to encourage. But still, I'd wager that porting between the 360 and PS3 was probably a bigger pain in the ass than porting between 360 and Wii U then/now, and probably will have been a bigger pain in the ass than porting between a theoretical Arm NX and PS4/Xbone in the future. Nintendo could certainly be a better port midwife, but I still question how many western third-parties would bother short of basically licensing games to Nintendo to port and promote themselves. Which I reiterate they probably should do anyway, but I doubt there's much Nintendo can do to attract these pinatas to the yard aside from distributing moneyhats.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on January 15, 2016, 07:59:13 AM
Speaking of which. Maybe we'll be going back to carts? They're bigger than BLU-Rays now. I imagine the future is mainly digital, but there are some nice advantages to having some sort of physical media.

https://jet.com/product/detail/63f29fda27ac49ae81884a21b7668798?jcmp=pla:ggl:electronics_a2:electronics_accessories_memory_flash_memory_a2_other:na:na:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15&k_clickid=6ccd5110-69f2-4f9b-bd3a-67e75469962c&abkId=403-186666&gclid=Cj0KEQiAq920BRC8-efn57XrotYBEiQAlVlMQ-jwuUzq10vUQ-3Ex6Yv3H-EDnMsgOW8oy-ebhMUc4EaAqog8P8HAQ

That's still $'s for a blank medium vs ¢'s on a disc.
3rd parties will still rather go multi-disc than single cartridge, just from a cost standpoint alone.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 15, 2016, 08:52:52 AM
Digital games make the cost of media less of an issue though they, admittedly, don't erase the issue. The only way Nintendo can get away with ditching optical discs from its consoles if it the physical media is cross-platform between console and handheld since optical discs just aren't practical on handhelds. Being available to both audiences also helps justify the change.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 15, 2016, 11:13:32 AM
Which is why the NX handheld should be single screen and cart based while the the home console, also cart based, unlocks dual screen capability and DS/3DS backwards compatability.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 15, 2016, 12:57:54 PM
I like carts but if they go with carts then I hope you like how the Wii U gets like six games a year because that's what will continue.  Nintendo has no leg to stand on.  No third party will be willing to pay more for development on a Nintendo console development than they do for the other consoles and cartridges cost more than discs.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Stratos on January 15, 2016, 03:33:00 PM
Unless Nintendo decides to foot the bill for the extra medium cost, which will never happen.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Stogi on January 15, 2016, 03:54:39 PM
They would if the carts were ambidextrous. If it worked for the NX and the 4DS, there's a chance they would foot the bill.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 15, 2016, 04:45:48 PM
I like carts but if they go with carts then I hope you like how the Wii U gets like six games a year because that's what will continue.  Nintendo has no leg to stand on.  No third party will be willing to pay more for development on a Nintendo console development than they do for the other consoles and cartridges cost more than discs.

I think we've established that discs are dead though, and carts still have a future/are cheap now/have storage space better than a blu-ray/are more portable/more durable.

Going back to carts only seems logical now. In a year 128GB solid state media will cost $69.99 retail...because they already do.

http://tinyurl.com/jbd2mdl

That's more than enough space to hold 4k video and whatever else you would need.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 15, 2016, 05:24:24 PM
While I strongly favor ditching optical media, I think there's potential for backlash. If third parties are looking for a reason, they'll find one. The cost of media could be one such reason. At the same time, if Nintendo is smart about it, perhaps third parties wouldn't resist such a change.

1. Flash media is pretty cheap these days, and it continues to drop in price. For example, if you're diligent, you can get a 32 GB SDHC Class 10 Card for around $10. Consider that it's still sold at a profit.

2. Nintendo sets the price of its proprietary media. An N64 cart cost third parties $20 each for what, usually like 4 or 8 MB? Most games these days are under 32 GB. Nintendo shouldn't be trying to make money this way. I'd like to see third parties purchase media directly from the company that manufactures it instead of having to go through Nintendo and get charged extra. It's certainly Nintendo's right to do what it pleases as the hardware manufacturer, but it's still a crummy way of doing business. More importantly, Nintendo isn't in the position to get away with it anymore.

3. Cut third parties a deal on licensing if they release a retail version, maybe even add incentives based on a title's sales. For example, for every million physical copies sold, Nintendo foots part of the bill on subsequent runs.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 15, 2016, 05:47:47 PM
Nintendo sets the price of its proprietary media. An N64 cart cost third parties $20 each for what, usually like 4 or 8 MB? Most games these days are under 32 GB. Nintendo shouldn't be trying to make money this way. I'd like to see third parties purchase media directly from the company that manufactures it instead of having to go through Nintendo and get charged extra. It's certainly Nintendo's right to do what it pleases as the hardware manufacturer, but it's still a crummy way of doing business. More importantly, Nintendo isn't in the position to get away with it anymore.

This here is why whenever someone defends the N64 with nonsense about Nintendo caring so much about load times compromising their games I roll my eyes.  THIS was the reason they stuck with carts more than anything.  They loved making money off of the media and had the hubris to assume third parties would put up with it despite an alternative being available from a competitor.

Nintendo operates like a penny pinching small businessman who thinks that if he "accidently" gives people the wrong change and buys cheaper toilet paper for the bathroom that that will earn him the big bucks, all while he completely ignores the mass of potential customers he turns off with his bullshit.  You earn money from third parties with license fees.  A console maker gets a cut of every game sold so it's in their best interest to have lots of third parties games that sell lots of copies.  Nintendo doesn't think like that.  They're hung up on exploiting third parties thinking that that is where the moolah will be but it backfires because it costs them support.  If third parties don't support you you make NO MONEY off of them.

Nintendo has the same philosophy with hardware.  "If we cheap out on the hardware we can have a higher profit margin on each console sold."  **** any other excuse, THAT is why the Wii was the way it was.  Of course the flaw in this reasoning is that weaker hardware results in an inferior product which is a harder sell.  A small profit margin on a better product stands to make more money in the long run by creating a larger userbase for which to sell games to.  Oh and if the third party support is healthy then THOSE games sell better too and Nintendo gets a cut of all of that.  And better third party support improves the perceived quality of the console so that increases console sales... which increase the potential sales of every game released all of which Nintendo gets some money from and the whole things perpetuates.  But Nintendo always pisses all of that away because they're hung up on exploiting everyone in the short term.

They're the creep businessman that figures that screwing over a customer once and losing him forever is worth more than years of repeat business at a smaller profit margin per visit.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Stogi on January 15, 2016, 06:01:53 PM
But my cartridges still work.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 15, 2016, 06:24:15 PM
This here is why whenever someone defends the N64 with nonsense about Nintendo caring so much about load times compromising their games I roll my eyes.  THIS was the reason they stuck with carts more than anything.  They loved making money off of the media and had the hubris to assume third parties would put up with it despite an alternative being available from a competitor.
Why exactly can't both be true? While Nintendo does indeed like having control over its hardware (that is one of the perks of being a hardware manufacturer), it isn't inconcievable that Nintendo cared about load times and such as well. Nintendo has always cared about the game experience to the point where it flat-out cancelled nearly finished games (e.g. Star Fox 2). I don't really see how you can view this as only hubris. There were a variety of reasons for sticking with cartridges. The entire SNES CD-drive saga was a mess, and Sony almost took Nintendo for a ride. Maybe Nintendo overreacted and kept its cards way to close to the chest after that. Going forward with Sony's deal would have been really awful for Nintendo. Sticking with cartridges ultimately cost Nintendo dearly, but too many things happened to blame it all on arrogance.

Personally, I think CDs sucked as a medium for video games. I've never been fond of optical media in general though, admittedly, there have been enough technological advances to make it not absolutely terrible. The original PlayStation was rocking a 2x CD-ROM drive. Ew. Optical media technology in the mid to late 90s just wasn't very good. We all dealt with it obviously. In retrospect, I don't think it was very conducive for the gameplay experiences I wanted. It was a lot of waiting, a lot of bad FMV.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 15, 2016, 11:23:00 PM
You know what was great? Me and my buddy played Mortal Kombat 4 every day. Occasionally we would go to his house. He had a playstation. I had an n64. We got right into the game to play on n64. When we went to his house, we had to wait to play.

Then another time I went over to someones house and he was showing off all the games, like Metal Gear, or Final Fantasy. He had a hard on for FF7, I just didn't see the appeal. What was even weirder was he would walk around the pre-rendered backgrounds which were just jpegs, and then the monster battle would happen and the characters would have a totally different inconsistent design. Its like one of those movies where the movie is bad, but its filled with all the special effect gimmicks.

eventually my brother won a Playstation in a raffle. I had got ff7 and metal gear. ff7 did not grow on me,. Metal Gear was an exciting adventure. Until I got to the second disc. The second disc did not work. I tried renting a game I owned, still did not work. I eventually had to finish the game on gamecube. Playstation did have Resident Evil games. Which although were similar to ff7 in design, were much more exciting. Still kinda bad because they were 3d games not designed for a 3d controller.

on n64 you had all those great n64 games and the only one that had a load time was a not so great Shadowman.

Most psx games sucked except a handful. I don't know how you can reconcile Nintendo's profit motivation with 3rd party profit motivation. It led several game companies to drop quality. The work done by developers on n64 was what I thought of as a higher pursuit. Sure, there are some shitty games on n64. Most games however hold up much better through the lens of time.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 15, 2016, 11:29:31 PM
Nintendo stuck with cartridges because could make money off of them, and they didn't want to deal with licensing and using CD-ROMs or DVD-ROMs from other companies. That's it. It had nothing to do with load times. The GameCube had excellent load times.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 15, 2016, 11:39:20 PM
Cartridges being a lot harder to pirate was a big part of it too. And the GameCube didn't have issues with load times because the tech had improved a whole hell of a lot from the 2x CD drives of the mid-'90s.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on January 16, 2016, 01:12:34 AM
I wonder how hard it will be to sell carts (as the default) to people for the next generation of consoles.  Like, it would be one of those super practical changes, but I feel like regular people would be weirded out for some reason.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 16, 2016, 02:28:00 AM
I wonder how hard it will be to sell carts (as the default) to people for the next generation of consoles.  Like, it would be one of those super practical changes, but I feel like regular people would be weirded out for some reason.

Any carts Nintendo uses would basically be like the DS/3DS ones which are still pretty common to a whole generation of people.  If Nintendo's goal with the NX is to make the handheld and home console closer to each other, sharing carts would make sense and the overwhelming majority of people who still play Nintendo games are used to them as the 3DS shows.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on January 16, 2016, 02:42:11 AM
Yeah, I had a longer version of the post until I realized Nintendo has been doing it the whole time, especially with increasing capacity of 3DS carts (that's been going up, right?).  But for "the other side" (read: people who don't play Nintendo systems) how do Sony and MS sell people on that idea? How do those people react? I try to picture myself explaining to my friends a disc-free future (which is inevitable) that still needs physical media, and all I can picture is bewilderment.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Triforce Hermit on January 16, 2016, 08:38:22 AM
You know for a fact that if Nintendo went back to cartridges for consoles, the internet would be screaming at the top of their lungs like children.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 16, 2016, 11:03:11 AM
Nintendo stuck with cartridges because could make money off of them, and they didn't want to deal with licensing and using CD-ROMs or DVD-ROMs from other companies. That's it. It had nothing to do with load times.
Well, that isn't true. Nintendo managed to get around licensing fees since transitioning to optical media by disabling movie and music playback. It never believed in optical media until technology advanced enough to allow it to not be awful. And Nintendo still talks about the advantages of ROM cartridges. Nintendo didn't stick with cartridges for any one single reason. The reasons were collectively all the things that have already been discussed.

Nintendo might have gotten away with it if it gave a damn about third parties at all. It never has outside of token attempts there and there, even in the 8-bit and 16-bit days some people look so fondly on. The article isn't available anymore besides snippets here and there, but Emily Roger's "The Sexual History Between Nintendo and Electronic Arts" illustrated this pretty well. It wasn't until Dan Adelman tried to change the culture within Nintendo when it came to indie developers that any headway was made, and he ended up leaving Nintendo about a year and a half ago.

As a company that was homegrown and family owned for decades, it's obvious why Nintendo operates in a bubble. Shigeru Miyamoto created Mario and Donkey Kong because Nintendo couldn't get the rights to Popeye. Then, Universal sued Nintendo for copyright infringement because it cornered the giant gorilla market or something. Next, Sony reached out with a "partnership" that had extremely one-sided terms. Negative dealings with other companies happens enough times and you start getting xenophobic. That doesn't make it right, but it's easy to see where the attitude comes from.

Nintendo seemed to soften its stance on many things once Hiroshi Yamauchi stepped down, but it never lost its desire to remain self-sufficient and independent. That's a different kind of problem though. Sony and Microsoft are overly reliant on third party software. That has gotten so bad that Phil Spencer said in August that Microsoft plans to focus more on first party exclusives. Nintendo's problem seems to be that it thinks it can't do its own thing while also opening the doors and giving back a little.

However, Nintendo has done a better job in recent years, not a good job but a better one. It's licensing out its IPs, making partnerships, and reaching out in unprecedented ways. It's a start, but Nintendo has to get on that. That's my hope for NX. Nintendo doesn't have to stop the good parts of what makes the company what it is to rid itself of the bad parts. Sony is buying exclusives like there's no tomorrow while Nintendo is practically asking not to be bothered. Can it find a middle ground maybe?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on January 16, 2016, 12:15:55 PM
I'm not just talking about content licensing (DVD movies), I mean actually purchasing DVD-ROM drives from other companies. Also, yes, drives had gotten faster than the PSX days, but load times on the GameCube were significantly faster than load times on the PS2.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 16, 2016, 03:26:19 PM
If Nintendo can do some marketing cornering on Japanese third parties, like what they have already done with Monster Hunter and Yokai Watch, they might be able to prove to western third parties their potential within the boundaries of that handheld.

As it stands, however, I doubt Nintendo will ever really successfully communicate with western third parties outside of indies.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 16, 2016, 03:50:59 PM
Nintendo does indeed operate in a bubble, but doesn't also seem like the other part of the industry operate in a bubble too?

Nintendo's bubble has always been off-putting, but it's also been off-putting that since Xbox came out the industry has always thought of the industry as XBOX vs PLAYSTATION. Even during the years where Wii was dominant in sales, Nintendo would have their section(which was always smaller) tucked in the back of Gamestop, or always eclipsed in Best Buy.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Stratos on January 16, 2016, 03:56:35 PM
Wasn't that just retailers following the demands of the market? Wiis sold well, along with maybe only a dozen games. Other systems had more games that consistently sold, justifying the extra shelf space.


More importantly, Nintendo was notoriously a jerk to retail partners. While other companies consistently sent reps to stores and helped in numerous ways, Nintendo made unreasonable demands such as dropping the MSRP on merchandise without warning stores. Retailers responded by giving less shelf space to Nintendo products.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 16, 2016, 04:02:33 PM
Nintendo's entire strategy has to change. The Japanese console market is on life support. Nintendo should court Japanese third party support with its 3DS successor. Get the handheld right and Nintendo will keep that support. Western third parties generally don't care about handhelds. They make games for consoles and PC. Get the console right and Nintendo merely gets their attention. Nintendo can get everything right about the hardware and that still isn't enough. Outside of just flat-out putting Steam on NX, Nintendo will have to reach out to each Western third party individually and prove NX is worth supporting. That requires Nintendo to rethink its culture from the ground up. Not everything gets tossed as Nintendo has good ideas. Miiverse, for example, is a really great idea even if it hasn't reached its full potential. However, Nintendo will have to relinquish some control, something it has historically been resistant towards. Can it, for example, deal with the fact that some people are going to be vicious cunts on its servers just to include universal voice chat, Swapnote, and Flipnote? Nintendo can't keep trying to police people's behavior for the supposed greater good if it wants to catch up with the rest of the world.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on January 18, 2016, 11:24:44 AM
I am a little behind on my responses, been busy at work.

Nickmitch, sorry if I offended you or misrepresented what you were saying, somehow I misread your post.


Personally I think there is literally nothing Nintendo can ever do to get back to the SNES days of control, third party support, and originality. The SNES was probably the last time Nintendo launched as many franchises that have stuck around since the NES.

Launching new franchises means squat when all they do is cater to the same crowd though. As much fun as Spaltoon is, it is probably the most Nintendo like game to come along. On the NES and SNES they were not just known for one type of game like they are now, they had a very broad range.

They occasionally branch out using partners but the reality is they rarely take the chances like they once did. This is the problem they have gotten themselves into. The real issue is they didn't know the NES was going to take off so they did everything they could to make sure it had every type of game that was required to sell the system. When the market accepted them then their partners flocked to release games on the system to cash in.

Nintendo needs to accept they do not NEED third parties, they need games. They need variety and they desperately need more than just a token effort in each franchise. They need to get a proper fighting game franchise on their system that satisfies the fighting game fans that attracts other fighting games to market to to compete. They need a new Killer Instinct to compete with the MK, SF, Tekken, Soul Calibur, etc, games of the world. They have Smash Bros, great I love it, we all do who doesn't? But that is not enough. They can't loan out Link to a 3rd party, stick him in a game that the other guys also have and call it a day, they need their own Eternal Champions, they need their own Virtua Fighter, they need a flagship 1 on 1 marshal arts game that has all the token gameplay and features that fighting game fans expect, set in a very not-Nintendo world that you could pick up and play and not know it wasn't a Playstation game.

Up until GameCube Nintendo also released their own line of sports games, where are those? They don't have 2K or EA so they should step things up and buy a smaller studio that does sports and re-launch some forgotten franchises or start up some new ones. Hell they missed out on this with Wii and Wii Sports was what sold the damn thing. If they had continued to focus on that maybe other companies would have followed suit.

There are just too many to name, Nintendo, when they are at their peak and all their core franchises are getting their fair shake, can carry any console on their own, they have done it before. What they need is to step away from Mario and Zelda and really ramp up 1, all their forgotten franchises, and 2, starting up brand new ones in genres they are lacking. They need their own Castlevania type game, not a clone but some sort of Golden Axe or something like Sega used to do, find a game that was not on their system and make their own.

But they desperately need to expand while they are at it. Merging the two machines into a single platform, however they manage to do that, is a start but still not enough. They don't need to stop making the quirky, fun, exotic stuff that makes them who they are, but they really need to focus on getting some games that their console is missing, and Bayonetta was not the right call that was at best a start but they should have had their own team making their own big scale God of War, Assassin's Creed, Prince of Persia clone. Why is Microsoft so successful because they see what games the market is pining for and if they can't get a 3rd party game in a genre they just make one, where would they be without Halo. Sure Metroid Prime is a MUST, but they also need a real gritty, violent, and epic space shooter FPS that can cater to that crowd.

And as lame as it sounds they need the fan service people keep begging for, Mario Paintball, some sort of World of Nintendo rpg dungeon crawler that makes use of Amiibo, a new F-Zero game, a proper Pokemon console RPG, a Kirby game that plays like Kirby, and the list goes on.

I guess bottom line is there is nothing they can do but what they already do and they know it. They need to expand or get help.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 18, 2016, 01:24:16 PM
Clearly Nintendo needs to change in some way.  I think the one thing more than anything else that they need to change is their bizarre insistence of doing everything a specific Nintendo way.  I want to see creativity like that in the games themselves and they should always be looking at industry conventions and thinking "how can we make this better?"  Those Nintendo qualities are fantastic and are the reason they even have a fanbase in the first place.

But with most things people just want something practical and intuitive and often someone else comes up with those ideas first because they're, frankly, pretty damn obvious.  There is no need to reinvent the wheel in these situations.  Customers typically don't want you to because you're mucking with something that already works great.  A truly great company would recognize when to reinvent the wheel and when to just go with the great idea someone else thought of.

Nintendo also is slow to adapt technology.  Last to use discs, last to go online, last to go HD.  So they're behind and then refuse to use other's ideas but by staying behind that all but ensures that someone else will establish the industry standard.  The two ideologies clash.  Either be the leader and set the standard that everyone else follows or play it conservatively and improve on the ideas of others.  Nintendo's approach is like operating in some alternate universe where everything everyone else did didn't happen.  But customers don't live in the same bubble.  So Nintendo is "discovering" online for example and a way to do it in a world where these discoveries were already made by other companies years before and customer expectations have adapted accordingly.  It is delusional for Nintendo to assume that customers will even tolerate, let alone accept, such an approach.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on January 18, 2016, 03:40:57 PM
I agree with your general sentiment Ian, that Nintendo is out of touch, but I disagree entirely that they need to be like everyone else to be successful. The evidence suggest they are their most successful when they aren't following what everyone else is doing. Their strength has always been their games, their weakness is primarily not enough games fast enough.

To be FAIR, completely honest and really as objective as possible, nobody expected CD rom to take off when it did, every single machine that relied on CD Rom up to Playstation, including it's direct competitors 3DO and Saturn, were all failures. PSX was a damn fluke it was the Wii of it's time. The problem is Sony saw their success and realized that in order to keep it they just needed to keep doing what they were. Nintendo is doing what they have always done, it's just the consumer have changed, the times have changed, and frankly, nobody knows what will sell anymore anyways.

I think you are also making the same mistake many of us, myself included, often make, and forget to look at Nintendo holistically instead of individual branches. As a company they are successful they are making money giving their customers what they want, they are keeping customers happy. What they are failing to do is bring in new customers to their console division. Their handheld's have always been just fine and in pretty much every way their handhelds have always been behind the times also.

Online was also brand new and Sony was barely online in the PS2 era. Dreamcast was the first to make online a central focus and it was a quick failure too. Nintendo needed to make more of an effort up front but Xbox Live was not something even Sony could match so expecting Nintendo do be able to is insane. Microsoft had the tools to go online, they had the knowledge, the infrastructure, they had the money, experience, the equipment, and they already had online gaming on the PC front. Nintendo barely had network games, in Japan, before Game Cube. Yes they should have tried harder but hell if they had gone all in online on Game Cube they would have gone the way of Sega because there was just no way to get there in 2001 with as little money and experience as they had. Even Sony struggled and it cost them dearly to do so.


Game Cube struggled for the same reason N64 did, lack of quality games. The difference was it also had fierce competition from Xbox which N64 only had Playstation to contend with, Saturn was pretty much out of the picture by the time the 64 hit it's stride. Now Game Cube might have gotten more games if not for the DVD fiasco but that was about the only thing they could have implemented without sinking their profits. Online was not even really a full market thing until Wii. Yes with Wii they should have improved but damn these things take time. It was not Nintendo's fault Microsoft did online better than them, for all intents and purposes Microsoft friggin invented online gaming.

The fact that we all go in circles trying to figure out what is wrong should be telling of how weird things have gotten, it is no wonder the people in charge can't figure it out either because we are probably the most irritatingly irrational fanbase on the planet, and that is including comparing us to the Star Wars fans.


What we can all agree on is Nintendo isn't catering to everyone's needs and we all want them to change to cater to ours. We just disagree on what is broken and thus what needs to be fixed. How they hell can they figure out how to sell to us, they are probably just glad Amiibo worked because with the way this fanbase is Amiibo should have sunk them into the depth of Amiga, Sega, and Atari by now.


I think it is us who are wrong and Nintendo who has it all figured out, We hold onto this myth they are a video game company, like Playstation, but they are not they are a toy company and they work best when they are selling toys, not interactive movies. The gaming culture has changed beyond what Nintendo can reach so they best they can do is keep their costs down so they can get as many of their own, top quality, games as they can.

Wii U was a fantastic machine, for about a year, but it stayed ridiculously over priced far longer than it should have. If it was in line with past generations in pricing it might be inline with past generations sales.

Also SNES gets brought up, but we all tend to forget that they basically had companies tied to SNES under restrictive contracts left over from the NES days when they were literally the only game in town.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 18, 2016, 04:15:20 PM
I think what it is with Nintendo is pride. They tend to play the leader when they are not the leader.  If you look at it from leader follower theory everything makes sense. Nintendo can't be a follower so they do weird **** just to go down their own path. They need to learn how to be contenders. Contender's will push people out of the way to control the path. Sometimes obviously some paths lead to peril. Nintendo is good at seeing those paths generally. Though they have gone down paths filled with thorns. They haven't fallen off a cliff yet though.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 18, 2016, 06:14:36 PM
michaelbaysuperfan I read a lot of your response as "please understand".  Lots of excuses for why Nintendo didn't do this and that.  But this is fiercely competitive market.  Excuses don't matter.  The average videogame customer is not going to care why Nintendo didn't do this or that.  They see that brand X has this and brand Y does not so they pick brand X.  And Nintendo has been behind on a LOT of stuff.  It's enough of a trend to say that Nintendo clearly is not on top of adopting industry trends when the rest of the market is.

Who thought CD would catch on?  Sony and Sega!  Every competitor in the market except Nintendo!  Who thought online would catch on?  Sega, Sony and Microsoft!  I understand if Nintendo misses the boat when almost everyone does but they're the only ones that do.  Who thought motion control could be successful?  Just Nintendo.  You can understand how Sony and MS had to play catch up there because there was only one company trying something.  But Nintendo is never behind because one trailblazer left the rest of the industry in the dust.  No, it's always everyone else going in a new direction and Nintendo refusing to go along with them.  That's a company that doesn't keep with the times.

Perm's dead on with the leader stuff.  Hell the Wii felt like a child being upset that they're losing at a sport so they create their own sport that they're the best at because they're the only one playing.  Nintendo always talks about all this "we're not in competition" stuff which is insane.  Of course they're competing with Sony and MS!  They don't even really get to decide that, the market does.  Nintendo needs to face that reality and then make decisions based on that.  If they can admit that they're in competition, whether they like it or not, they can think "how can we compete with these guys" and strategize accordingly.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 18, 2016, 06:30:57 PM
As long as Nintendo keeps making video games, I'm okay. So I just want them to do what will enable them to do just that. And I don't really care about how they do it. The Wii was fine, with me. I get that SOME PEOPLE think it was the worst thing to happen in the history of their stint as video game developers but I thought there were tons of great ideas and third party support that did a good job of communicating the use of motion controls. It's still being used, even in subtle ways like Splatoon, that justify its existence.

Anyway, have fun continuing to say the exact same stuff. I'm sure Nintendo is looking at their recent failure and saying they need to do the same thing they've always done in the same way.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on January 19, 2016, 03:22:25 AM
Honestly, I think Nintendo would be better off if they didn't half-ass their own ideas.  With Wii, everyone hoped it would have 1:1 controls, but instead we got waggle.  With Wii U, people immediately asked if there would be support for two gamepads, and that completely caught Nintendo off guard.  Nintendo was able to add M+, but it put devs in a tight spot they couldn't count on everyone having it.  They don't seem like they're doing something similar with Wii U.  In fact, Nintendo has barely been able to execute on the one gamepad.

Nintendo could be the leader, if they showed people ideas that pan out.  Not everything can be joysticks, rumble packs, or the GameBoy Camera, but they need to not be so conservative.  The half-assed risks are costing them as much as a full-assed risk would.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on January 19, 2016, 03:31:22 AM
As a company they are successful they are making money giving their customers what they want, they are keeping customers happy.

Not to be too contrarian, but from 2012 to 2015, Nintendo had a positive EBITDA (Earnings) once. Same for their Free Cash Flow.  To be fair, 2015 was the positive year, and 2016 may work out positive too, but they're living and dying by amiibo now.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 19, 2016, 05:41:39 AM
Honestly, I think Nintendo would be better off if they didn't half-ass their own ideas.  With Wii, everyone hoped it would have 1:1 controls, but instead we got waggle.  With Wii U, people immediately asked if there would be support for two gamepads, and that completely caught Nintendo off guard.  Nintendo was able to add M+, but it put devs in a tight spot they couldn't count on everyone having it.  They don't seem like they're doing something similar with Wii U.  In fact, Nintendo has barely been able to execute on the one gamepad.
There's merit to each of these points which, admittedly, have been brought up before. It's difficult to argue any of them. The GamePad is a great idea (for certain games) executed poorly. I can't play Splatoon's best mode (turf war) locally which is partially why I can't get into it. Launching yourself to your teammates is a big part of that mode and it can only be done with the GamePad. Removing the GamePad requirement would actually change the integrity of the game. This is one of those instances where the hardware severely limited game design. Had Nintendo not half-assed its own idea, it'd have a much better game.

I hope Nintendo truly and completely commits to whatever "new concept" it has planned with NX. Go all in or stay the hell home. Nintendo doesn't have a lot of room for error here. If it's going to tease a new idea for nearly a year, it better deliver. This is likely Nintendo's last chance as a console maker (not hardware in general, however). NX doesn't have to beat PS4, but it has to be compelling enough to keep Nintendo in the conversation which is a tall order in and of itself.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on January 19, 2016, 09:47:29 AM
Ian, no you misread what I wrote. I am not saying they deserve a pass on those things or that those are not mistakes, but those are things we see in hindsight, I was saying to be fair they couldn't have predicted CD would take off when every CD console that came before, INCLUDING the Saturn, were all failures. Yes they probably had a lot of reasons for not sticking to CD but there were other companies still doing carts too, not successful either but nobody can say that is what mattered. Yes you can point to a dozen reasons why each of those early cd machines failed but when you had, Turbo CD, Sega CD, Neo Geo CD, CD-i (something Nintendo had a small hand in) CDX, CD32, 3DO, Saturn, Jaguar CD, and I am sure one or two more I am forgetting, ALL be complete duds in a three to four year span, you can understand why Nintendo was hesitant. Sega didn't go with CD on Saturn because they saw it as the future, they already did that with Sega CD and took a hit on that, they were already invested in the technology they already had drives, suppliers, etc, things Nintendo didn't have. Sony, give me a break of all the companies that could take a hit on CD it was them, they hold half the patents on the technology so for them it was much cheaper than it would have been for Nintendo.


Dreamcast was the first console to do online out of the box, but Sony and Nintendo had the same strategy at first, wait and see. Sony was better prepared because hey once again they were already invested in it, they had Sony Online before Playstation 2 came along. Sega also had online with Saturn so again they already had investments. Yes it is Nintendo's fault for not investing in those technologies earlier if they wanted to stay relevant but again, Sega died doing those things you praise them for doing, MS almost died, hell Sony ALMOST died doing what they did to topple Nintendo.

These last couple years they were not so profitable, but that was mostly Wii U's fault. I was not apologizing for them just saying that we have hindsight now, they didn't have that then. In the mid 90's everyone, including Nintendo, thought VR was the future and investing in that hurt Atari and Sega and lead Nintendo to their biggest true failure in their video game history.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 19, 2016, 12:54:34 PM
Not to be too contrarian, but from 2012 to 2015, Nintendo had a positive EBITDA (Earnings) once. Same for their Free Cash Flow.  To be fair, 2015 was the positive year, and 2016 may work out positive too, but they're living and dying by amiibo now.

The main reason for their losses for the 2012-2014 fiscal year was because they were spending a shitload of money to do the biggest restructure the company had seen in over 20 years and the 3DS price cut really fucked them up for 2 years since they were selling that thing at a huge loss.  Then of course they spend a lot to buy back Yamauchi's stocks after he died. 

These weren't exactly the typical things that Nintendo usually has to deal with that caused the majority of these losses.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 19, 2016, 12:55:38 PM
Honestly, I think Nintendo would be better off if they didn't half-ass their own ideas.  With Wii, everyone hoped it would have 1:1 controls, but instead we got waggle.  With Wii U, people immediately asked if there would be support for two gamepads, and that completely caught Nintendo off guard.  Nintendo was able to add M+, but it put devs in a tight spot they couldn't count on everyone having it.  They don't seem like they're doing something similar with Wii U.  In fact, Nintendo has barely been able to execute on the one gamepad.

This is a great point.  The whole hook for the Wii U is the damn gamepad.  It has nothing else that consoles from the prior generation weren't already doing years ago.  So the Gamepad better be put to a lot of use or else why didn't we get better specs instead, right?  Now the idea of using the Gamepad extensively in every game freaks me out but that's only because I don't have faith in the concept so I assume that if they used it that much it would be forced and the games would suffer as a result.  I hated when motion control was the only option in a game on the Wii for example but that was because I felt the concept itself SUCKED.  Nintendo didn't half-ass implementing the analog stick on the N64 and it took off and became the industry standard but it was also great idea.

Nintendo's weak Gamepad usage suggests to me two things:
1. They don't have very many ideas for how to use it.
2. They don't have enough confidence in the feature to put it in every game without it ruining otherwise good titles.

But if you have squat for ideas for something and don't feel it is a good enough feature that it can be used all over the place then DON'T base a product around that feature!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 19, 2016, 05:13:57 PM
Nice to see my post promptly ignored. I'm glad people keep trucking with their general disdain.

I wanted to touch on the implementation of the Gamepad and why it SHOULD be less "feared" by those who aren't sold on the concept.

The problem with the Wii U was primarily marketing- Nintendo tried to play the Gamepad as "the next big thing" to justify its lack of power. Now, from a technology standpoint the Wii U is impressive- its streaming capabilities are top-notch and I think we won't see the time and effort Nintendo put into that go to waste. However, the Wii U is a more grounded and controlled look at the Wii's successful aspects- it implements "motion control" better than the previous console and uses it more for practical implementations, as well as adding touchscreen interface and dual display. For example, here are some of the "best" implementations of the Gamepad:
-User Interface Streamlining, Super Mario Maker, Xenoblade Chronicles X, and Zombi U
-Enhanced Map Control and detail, Xenoblade Chronicles X, Splatoon
-Split Screen Co-Op Streamlining, Call of Duty (BlOps 2?), Minecraft, Hyrule Warriors, etc
-Gyro Aiming, Splatoon, Nintendo Land, Zombi U, Fatal Frame, Sonic: Lost World, etc
-RTS Unit and Task management, Pikmin 3
-Spectator enhancements, Kirby and the Rainbow Curse, Scram Kitty and His Buddy on Rails, Nintendo Land, etc
-Touchscreen interfacing (primarily drawing), Art Academy, Super Smash Brothers, Super Mario Maker, various independent titles

Most of these are not "earth-shattering" concepts, but they are generally improvements to a gaming experience. But Nintendo, who situated themselves in a "masters of innovation" position after the success of the DS and Wii, boasted that the Gamepad would have many implementations. While it DOES, it's underused because of the lack of support the system is getting, which in turn causes Nintendo to cut corners on ideas and Gamepad implementation. Could we get a DND-like mapping game on Wii U? Maybe if people thought the market was healthy enough to justify a title like that, or if Nintendo had the time to properly think through a concept like that instead of just trying to put out games in the vacuum that is the Wii U release schedule. The sad thing is, even titles like Hex Heroes, a Kickstarter-cooked Wii U title, had to add PC as one of their platforms despite the game being designed for Wii U because the console was made for ideas like it.

But ultimately, Nintendo has toned down their gimmickry with the 3DS and Wii U, Amiibo non-withstanding. Their pitches with these two consoles have been focused more on presentation and gameplay streamlining, not introducing unnecessary aspects. I don't know why people hate on the Wii U's execution, especially when they buy up Xbone and PS4s which add little to the streamlining of any sort of gameplay. People expect Nintendo to make the next big thing, but are disappointed when they do or when their idea "doesn't live up" to their promise- i.e. being shoehorned into everything. It's awfully contrarian.

Of course, that's not the main issue. Blah blah third party relations, blah blah unconventional design, blah blah Nintendo doesn't make games for me anymore.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 19, 2016, 06:24:36 PM
Evan I feel like you've done a good job of selling the Gamepad features as a good compliment to gaming.  But the problem is that they had to cut corners in other areas to implement it and if they're going to do that then it HAS to be earth-shattering.  No one buys a console for something that is merely complimentary and a nice feature.  The whole design of the Wii and Wii U is that Feature X HAS to go over big because aside from it you're looking at a last gen console and you can buy one of those from one of the other guys at a discounted price.  Nintendo is essentially saying that the Gamepad, not specs, is the TRUE new generation so they have to deliver on that.

And I don't feel I'm being contrarian in feeling they need to use the concept all the time and not wanting it shoehorned in.  A good controller idea begs to be used in almost all games and is such a good concept it doesn't FEEL forced.  If it feels shoehorned in then the concept is too one-dimensional and therefore basing your whole console around it doesn't make sense.  There are two qualifications here.  If you're basing a console around a controller concept then you should be using the feature the vast majority of the time and the concept should be strong enough that doing so does not feel forced.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on January 19, 2016, 07:05:37 PM
Evan, while you bring up great points, I have a few counterpoints.  For Kirby and the Rainbow Curse, the game is played and controlled on the gamepad, so if I'm playing alone, I can't fully enjoy the visuals.  (Not huge, but it bothers me.)  And the co-op examples would be great(er) if more than one gamepad would be supported.

Not to be too contrarian, but from 2012 to 2015, Nintendo had a positive EBITDA (Earnings) once. Same for their Free Cash Flow.  To be fair, 2015 was the positive year, and 2016 may work out positive too, but they're living and dying by amiibo now.

The main reason for their losses for the 2012-2014 fiscal year was because they were spending a shitload of money to do the biggest restructure the company had seen in over 20 years and the 3DS price cut really fucked them up for 2 years since they were selling that thing at a huge loss.  Then of course they spend a lot to buy back Yamauchi's stocks after he died. 

These weren't exactly the typical things that Nintendo usually has to deal with that caused the majority of these losses.

Stock buyback isn't an income statement transaction, but it does affect your cash flows. The restructuring costs are probably what took them into the red (if that what the non-operating expenses were those years).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 19, 2016, 08:29:32 PM
There is no true new generation. Saying that the PS4 and the Xbone are "next-gen consoles" is not a valid descriptor. "Watered-down PCs" is a better function. Also, when I said "spectator enhancements" I meant: player two or a non-player gets an enhanced look at the game, where player ONE is the person holding the gamepad. Kirby's visuals are sadly sacrificed for the Gamepad player but player two gets a much nicer look at things. The other games I cited were perfect examples.

Now, I'd argue that most of the gamepad implementation is featured in a number of titles and is quite unobtrusive in most of them. I would agree that Nintendo's focus was on the Gamepad and it justified their lack of power in other areas, but I don't think that power matters all that much these days, considering the graphical difference between certain games is not as massive as the SD-HD comparison. We can argue that all we want, but I'll take a step back and call that one "my opinion". As for the Gamepad, I'mm done trying to sell it. But I think, in concept, it is a better controller than its competitors, and has more function and use than they do with its screen alone, but lacks the support.

When you look at a Wii U game, many of them perform better than their competitors and have better art design, too. The main problem with that, of course, is that Nintendo caters to a Japanese audience where those aspects are more important (though game performance should be a standard EVERYWHERE and I find it insulting that people justify low framerates, pop-in, and the like because it "looks better"). If they wanted to appeal to an American audience, their first online shooter would have been militaristic, or perhaps SMTxFE would have been a darker and more graphic RPG. Nintendo is catering to a niche audience- one that buys its games. I find it odd that third party publishers would have trouble selling games since many of them look so drastically different, but again, maybe it comes down to the quality of those titles. Or maybe even the style- I mean, I'd hardly call No More Heroes a polished experience but the art style and gameplay resonated with people and caused them to buy it.

Something relatively disturbing to me is how we've seen several examples of Nintendo diversifying their IP by making it MORE Japanese centric. Triforce Heroes and Federation Force, for example, feature staples of the Monster Hunter genre, and of course we've seen how Miitomo is an ideal product for the Japanese market but makes no sense to the rest of us. Even Splatoon's success is largely because of its function as a Japanese phenomenon. It's clear that we've reached a crossroads where Nintendo can either pinpoint their market or try to broaden it and I worry it's going the other way. Then again, they need to be in touch with Japanese third parties right now, who are begging for a console resurgence, and hopefully use that as a way to connect with Western audiences.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: MagicCow64 on January 19, 2016, 11:10:23 PM
I largely agree with Evan here, especially his points about the lackluster exploration of the Gamepad. Nintendo must have known pretty early that the WiiU was tanking. Had it done decently, the multipad support would have come. Had it done a respectable fraction of Wii sales, we'd have seen third party experimentation with the concept, like we saw with the Wii, with plenty of engaging results. But the WiiU was a bomb, and they had to pull back from the concept, and focus on features that are technically extraneous and/or will be replicatable without the pad in the future. This is part and parcel with the death of local multi-player, in my mind, as I had some enchanting play sessions with Nintendoland, and it's not hard to imagine how many of those use cases could've been expanded into full-on games. But the market wasn't there, and I don't think it can be blamed on marketing. The market for hand-drawn 2-D animation is largely gone, too. I've said this before, but markets are shitty mechanisms for determining the value and production of art.

But the conversation is largely eliding how great the pad streaming works, and how great off-screen capabilities are for people sharing a TV. I got a lot of use out of that while I was sharing various living spaces. I had a multi-hour flight delay once and was able to play Toki Tori 2 on the pad out of my luggage, which was fucking boss, no matter how lame I must of looked doing it. Toward the actual dual technology, I find the map implementation in Xenoblade X to be pretty critical given how often it's used; you could easily rework the game to include a map on the main screen, but it would really blow comparatively. I think the same can be said of Splatoon.

Overall, I dunno what to say, other than to repeat the previous barb of wishing everyone joy repeating the same criticisms over and over again. I don't get the impulse. I feel like there are a number of folks who got called babies in middle school for playing Nintendo games and have never been able to get over it, while nonetheless subconsciously understanding that the company is the best in the business in terms of core gameplay. A closet, of sorts!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 20, 2016, 12:58:20 AM
Nintendo wanted to bring people together with the Gamepad, for people to watch the TV and use the screen in the same room, while also create something that would function well for single player experiences. In not having the sales to justify multi-Gamepad implementation (which, at one point they said they were looking into), we can't have nice things like local Splatoon.

And yet, we CAN have nice things like Co-Op that isn't splitscreen, and a competitive fighter which drastically different camera angles that doesn't destroy the TV screen. But Nintendo couldn't please everyone with the way the Gamepad worked, which is unfortunate. We could have had decent local party games and healthy online ones. But the thing didn't sell.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: lolmonade on January 20, 2016, 12:33:14 PM
To me, there are two BIG distinctions as to why the Wii was a rousing success compared to Wii U flailing despite having some great games (arguably better) comparably.


1) Wii Remote motion control's tapping into a casual market that otherwise wouldn't buy a console.  I've always seen jokes about how the Wii was a console for babies, but honestly, it wasn't, it was a console for your parents and grandparents so they could convince their kids & grandkits to come over & Wii Bowling.


2) Price - It's clear to me that the Wii U would have had a much better chance of success had there been one base model at the $299 price, or more ideally, the $249.99 price.  That casual market has moved on (I assume Nintendo knows this too, given their foray into mobile), they're fine with the Wii, and the dedicated gaming market didn't find the Wii U tablet a compelling enough accessory to justify a price tag so close to the competition that looks better and has distinctive features.  You can either be a premium product or a discount alternative, there isn't room for middle ground in this market, and Wii U tried to have discount graphics at a premium price, using a controller as justification for that premium price that didn't compel customers.




What I worry about is that Nintendo hasn't learned these lessons and they'll make the same error on bullet two.  I expect I'll get hyped about the NX at E3, but I'm going to temper my enthusiasm and wait out the initial sales period, I'm just not excited by the NX like I have been for previous Nintendo consoles.



Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 20, 2016, 01:15:18 PM
As much as I hate to admit it, the Wii U name is also a reason casual gamers didn't attach. I have seen the horror of a customer not knowing the difference. It's true, and it's terrible.

I am surprised about the price remarks. I mean, I think it's absurd that the price hasn't been dropped since, but the Wii U is the least expensive console on the market. I hope, after the whole Nintendo Ambassador program thing, that Nintendo will be a little smarter about pricing their handhelds (which is what the NX is, by the way), and I don't really feel that the price was too high for Wii U. Initially. If it had taken off after that initial launch, with third parties flocking to it, it would have been a great price. But since then, we've seen the opposite, and the price isn't justifiable for a console with such a small library.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: lolmonade on January 20, 2016, 02:08:31 PM
My argument isn't just "price too high", it's price compared to perceived value.  The Wii at $250 seemed like a good deal at the time because it was 1) Scarce, 2) cheap compared to their competitors, and 3) had an accessory that had a perceived value that justified its cost to the consumer despite a discrepancy in graphics and other features.


The Wii U was 1) in good supply, 2) almost same price at competitors, and 3) has an accessory that isn't valued enough to justify graphics & features that don't have parity with their competition.



Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 20, 2016, 06:28:31 PM
Right, and I agree with you.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: MagicCow64 on January 21, 2016, 01:15:45 AM
Not to go full apologist here, but I think placing the blame of the WiiU's failure on the name/marketing isn't quite fair. Consumers don't seem to have had trouble with the equally silly naming conventions of the Xbox brand. I believe there was casual-level misunderstanding about the WiiU, but I don't really think it would have made a huge difference if it was just called Wii 2. Those consumers who would have been enlightened as to the true nature of the system would still have largely skipped the purchase. I can't imagine there were a ton of people eager to purchase a tablet add-on to the Wii who then balked when they discovered it was a unique console. And I'd wager the majority of the ~50 million people who own Xbones and PS4s know exactly what the WiiU is. A tablet-themed console just wasn't going to cut it no matter what.

Likewise, I don't see how a $400 gimmick-less PS4 equivalent would have done much better, either at the launch of the WiiU or later this year with the launch of the NX. For any number of reasons, Nintendo has been pretty well bounced from the "traditional" console market, and the secular outlook for handhelds is pretty dismal. They've got to go in a significantly different direction to keep rolling, as aping (way too late) the dictates of the increasingly ossified PS4/Xbone market is futile. I'm hoping the NX will be a genuine surprise and outside-the-box success, as there's pretty much no way Nintendo will be able to continue making best-in-class software at the volume they do in a world where they become Sega 2.0 or focus on phone games.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 21, 2016, 06:46:52 AM
Likewise, I don't see how a $400 gimmick-less PS4 equivalent would have done much better, either at the launch of the WiiU or later this year with the launch of the NX.
It wouldn't, and it won't because Nintendo's problems as a console manufacturer extend far beyond hardware. If it ever wants be taken seriously in the console space again, it will have to address everything. Honestly, I think it begins with beating Sony and Microsoft at their own game, not by copying (since that won't work) but by changing the rules, namely becoming absurdly third party-centric in a different way.

For example, rather than shelling out for exclusives, cut third parties deals on licensing and offer incentives for meeting sales goals which is advantageous for every game, not just the exclusives. Essentially, it's addition by subtraction. Right now, Nintendo gets minimal support and doesn't make a lot on licensing as a result. Find out what Sony charges then charge less. Once Sony and Microsoft catch wind of this, it's a race to the bottom. The goal is to get to the point where most games are released on all consoles with the added benefit of cutting off a stream of revenue from the competition which may discourage buying exclusives. Nintendo makes most of its profits from software, and it's been without support (and the revenue that comes with it) for so long that it's best bet may be to get the playing field as even as possible and let its first party titles speak for themselves.

Anyway, AMD mentioned supplying an APU to a new console in the second half of 2016 in its Q4 financial results briefing. Very subtle. "I don't want to say it's for NX, but it's not not for NX............... It's for NX. Sorry."
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on January 21, 2016, 10:35:08 AM
Honestly their best bet, and they won't do this, is to just make a proper, Nintendo Tablet a true gaming tablet that runs just the apps a gamer needs, maybe a few media apps, a decent web browser, and something like Game Pad where there are buttons on the side and include HDMI output, then done a merging of the console and handheld division.

That won't happen though so we are right back to where we started, speculating on what is plan, what are we on no E, F, I lost count because they keep changing things.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 21, 2016, 01:35:28 PM
I don't get this idea that Nintendo has to have some different hook or some nonsense to compete with the other guys and that making something conventional won't work.  Nintendo has an advantage in one major area - they're probably the most talented game makers in the world.  If they made something conventional that attracted comparable third party support then the comparison would be the first party games.  That's a comparison that, presuming they doesn't waste time with waggle party nonsense or 2D games that could be done on 20 year old hardware, Nintendo can win.  But instead they make it so that their first party games have to compete against damn near every other game being made and they can't compete with that because of the sheer numbers.

It feels Nintendo is just trying to avoid admitting their mistakes and improving.  "No it can't be that we always **** up simple stuff that any idiot with the slightest familiarity with videogames could get right or that we jerk around our customers and business partners and cut corners and cheap out.  It must be that competing with Sony and MS is completely impossible and hopeless so we need some special gimmick to differentiate ourselves that conveniently allows us to avoid self-improvement, keep up all our bad habits, and never admit we've ever done anything wrong."

When Nintendo puts in an actual effort to release a console that isn't fucked over by some obvious mistake or compromise and it fails THEN you can say it's hopeless and they need to do something different.  But I call bullshit.  They've haven't tried for real in 20 years.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 21, 2016, 02:08:44 PM
What's not to get? Nintendo games appeal primarily to Nintendo fans. Releasing essentially identical hardware as Sony and Microsoft is Nintendo asking consumers to abandon PlayStation or Xbox for no good reason. Is Nintendo's software appealing enough to convince people to leave their friends, digital purchases, and familiarity behind? I don't think Nintendo even believes that. It wants to be the "and" company. Nintendo doesn't care if you buy PlayStation or Xbox as long as you buy its hardware too. I'm not saying I agree with that strategy (for the most part, I don't). However, I don't know what you don't get about it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 21, 2016, 02:46:56 PM
What's not to get? Nintendo games appeal primarily to Nintendo fans. Releasing essentially identical hardware as Sony and Microsoft is Nintendo asking consumers to abandon PlayStation or Xbox for no good reason. Is Nintendo's software appealing enough to convince people to leave their friends, digital purchases, and familiarity behind? I don't think Nintendo even believes that. It wants to be the "and" company. Nintendo doesn't care if you buy PlayStation or Xbox as long as you buy its hardware too. I'm not saying I agree with that strategy (for the most part, I don't). However, I don't know what you don't get about it.

Nintendo always groups their games with giving up literally everything else.  Give up industry standard features, give up third party support, give up whole genres - give up all of this for Nintendo games.  That is crazy and, yes, only the most devoted Nintendo nutbar would ever put up with that.  Their games do not get to be compared on even footing, while the decision between MS and Sony comes down largely to first party titles.  Go onto GameRankings and look at the top reviewed games of all time and Nintendo holds the TOP THREE spots!  Their games are very highly regarded and not just from Nintendo geeks.

I understand their strategy but I think it's idiotic (the only time it ever worked was when they targeted a new audience with no familiarity with videogames and thus complete ignorance of Nintendo's shortcomings) and insincere because I think the whole thing is that Nintendo is so far up their own ass they base business decisions on delusional ideas that deflect any responsibility for their own failings.  Coming up with excuses to not actually try and hoping some dumb gimmick catches on is easier than addressing legitimate problems rooted deep in the company culture.

If the idea is that Nintendo is some luxury brand that people should buy a second console for then that just demonstrates the strength and marketability of their first party titles.  Why would anyone buy such a product otherwise?  So why should people buy a PlayStation and a Nintendo console to get both Nintendo games and everything else if they could buy ONE console that had it all?  That's what I would rather buy.  It seems arbitrary that I need to buy two.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: MagicCow64 on January 21, 2016, 03:08:59 PM
Again, Ian is repeating the same things he's been pissed off about since someone called him a nerd in the 8th grade for reading a Nintendo Power in the cafeteria.

To make it even harder to pretend not to understand:

Ignore all past history, decision making, alternate realities, etc. This year, Nintendo essentially has to launch a new console. They could maybe squeak by into 2017, but at even greater risk of cementing their irrelevancy. Right now, in today's world, with everything having already played out as it has, there are about ~30 million Playstation 4 owners and ~20 million Xbone owners, and who knows how many equivalent level PC owners. These numbers will all be up by the time the NX launches in late 2016. At that time, what compelling reason would anyone have to spend $400 on another bog standard current gen console with (in a best case scenario for this asinine scenario) feature parity and equivalent third party support? There is a small core of super enthusiasts who will buy everything that's out, but those same people bought the WiiU, which will probably finish at around 15 million sales.

As Adrock pointed out, you'd have to really, really want everything a PS4 offers, plus Nintendo games as well to an extent that you would ignore the network effects of the established PS4/Xbone ecosystems, friend preferences, etc. Who is holding out on buying into this current generation until Nintendo puts out an expensive and mostly redundant console? And if the NX was a second console for you, why would you buy third party games on the NX instead of the other systems? Would anyone buy a $400 Nintendo box? Very few are going for the $300 Nintendo box. The $99 Nintendo box (with great first party games and comparatively storng 3rd party support) only moved ~20 million units.

Nintendo can't wait toil 2020 to jump in with the PS5/Xtooth and hope that they'll suddenly become popular again with a demographic and business ecosystem they don't even like. Nor is there any sense in pushing out a me-too attempt halfway through this generation.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 21, 2016, 03:37:26 PM
Ignore all past history, decision making, alternate realities, etc. This year, Nintendo essentially has to launch a new console. They could maybe squeak by into 2017, but at even greater risk of cementing their irrelevancy. Right now, in today's world, with everything having already played out as it has, there are about ~30 million Playstation 4 owners and ~20 million Xbone owners, and who knows how many equivalent level PC owners. These numbers will all be up by the time the NX launches in late 2016. At that time, what compelling reason would anyone have to spend $400 on another bog standard current gen console with (in a best case scenario for this asinine scenario) feature parity and equivalent third party support? There is a small core of super enthusiasts who will buy everything that's out, but those same people bought the WiiU, which will probably finish at around 15 million sales.

As Adrock pointed out, you'd have to really, really want everything a PS4 offers, plus Nintendo games as well to an extent that you would ignore the network effects of the established PS4/Xbone ecosystems, friend preferences, etc. Who is holding out on buying into this current generation until Nintendo puts out an expensive and mostly redundant console? And if the NX was a second console for you, why would you buy third party games on the NX instead of the other systems? Would anyone buy a $400 Nintendo box? Very few are going for the $300 Nintendo box. The $99 Nintendo box (with great first party games and comparatively storng 3rd party support) only moved ~20 million units.

I'm the guy who would have replaced the Wii U in 2014 if I could have so I'm the last guy who would suggest that Nintendo doesn't need a new console now.  If anything the fact that the other consoles have grown so much demonstrates the problem in Nintendo waiting as long as they did.

If Nintendo doesn't have something that comes across as a "real" effort then I don't think anyone will take them seriously in the future when the next generation starts and a comparative console is necessary.  Some half-baked cheap pseudoconsole is just going to re-enforce the idea that Nintendo sticks with last gen hardware and dumb gimmicks and is not worth any serious consideration from anyone but the same audience that bought the Wii U.  This is the time for the apology console.  This is the time for them to show everyone they figured their **** out.  Anyone turned off by the Wii U would be equally turned off by another Nintendo console that is essentially following the same design as the Wii and Wii U.

There is to be no more fucking around.  Nintendo plays ball or they're finished as console makers.  To make it with something totally incompatible and different it will have to be really impressive.  I think a better strategy is to win over the Wii U owners (many of which are probably pissed at Nintendo for dropping the ball; each gen Nintendo turns off more of their fanbase with their bullshit) and those who haven't bought a console yet and those that have no beef with owning multiple consoles regardless of price and slowly build things so that next gen they can really attract some attention.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 21, 2016, 05:09:26 PM
The Market is still about 100 million. If there are 30 million ps4 owners, and 20 million xbox one owners then there would still be 50 million people left. Also shiny, new, and if Nintendo is thinking about future glory/past mistakes more powerful then those two. 

Theres talk of a 900p support for the next console, that could be the screen on the controller.  the current one is 854x480

1080p is 1920x1080

Ipads are like 1024x768

900p is probably 1600x900 (based on photoshop's constrain proportion algorithm)

IF I were Nintendo and I wanted to make a beast, but wanted to be lazy about it my specs would be

1.3 ghz amd radeon processor
2 ghz amd 16 core jaguar apu
16gb ram. Divided in some convenient way.
1.24 GHz Tri-Core IBM PowerPC "Espresso" for backwards compatability

so bumping power up about 30% and then doubling the ram. Sony and Microsoft have probably made those family of processors really cheap, and also Nintendo would benefit by getting a newer generation of them.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Luigi Dude on January 21, 2016, 11:15:16 PM
The thing is, Nintendo isn't going after Microsoft and Sony's main audience which is 18-34 males.  Nintendo's main audience has always been and will remain kids and families, the ones who bought the majority of their previous systems and currently make up the majority of the over 55 million 3DS that have been sold.  It doesn't matter if some of you like to pretend Nintendo's handhelds don't exist, Nintendo views the home console and handheld audience as the same thing and thanks to handhelds Nintendo is still a major force in the industry.

No surprise that's probably the biggest reason why the NX is shaping to be something where the handheld and home console are more deeply connected even sharing the same OS.  The goal with the NX isn't to take away Microsoft and Sony's audience, it's to make more of Nintendo's own audience buy home consoles again. 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 21, 2016, 11:37:16 PM
Okay so now that we've gotten the whole "Nintendo needs to stop fucking around" and "they've alienated their fanbase" thing down, let's move the conversation in another direction (even though I could argue I don't want "everything a PS4 does" because all it does means jack **** to me).

I believe that, if we're talking a handheld screen, those 900p resolution numbers sound pretty good to me. Which is honestly where I'd expect them since no sane person would tout that as a feature of a home console. To me, the idea of interconnected handheld (which is what the NX we'll be seeing this year is, by the way. Don't forget that) makes so much sense with how Nintendo has handled GBA cables, DS/Wii engine sharing and connectivity, and though Wii U hasn't had much of it, the controller itself is a pretty key example, as well as instances like the 3DS Smash Controller (which has deeper implications, especially getting a handheld engine that mimics a console one down so well and then selling that separate).

I know I've said that a billion times before but that seems to be the theme of this thread anyway.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on January 22, 2016, 10:16:09 AM
I, and I am sure a majority of Nintendo fans, would be more than happy of they exited the home console business entirely and just made a really kick ass handheld that ALSO allowed TV connectivity and that would be all they needed to do. But no they won't see that either. The console business isn't even MS and Sony, it's all Sony has been since 1995. Microsoft is just pretending to matter all they want is to use Xbox to keep their bigger name relevant.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: broodwars on January 22, 2016, 10:35:06 AM
I, and I am sure a majority of Nintendo fans, would be more than happy of they exited the home console business entirely and just made a really kick ass handheld that ALSO allowed TV connectivity and that would be all they needed to do. But no they won't see that either. The console business isn't even MS and Sony, it's all Sony has been since 1995. Microsoft is just pretending to matter all they want is to use Xbox to keep their bigger name relevant.

Thing is, handheld-only simply isn't viable. That market has shrunk tremendously since even the 3DS' launch, to the point where Western dev support has been 0 for quite some time. What little support dedicated handhelds have in Japan is rapidly dwindling due to devs focusing all their resources on mobile. I see no reason to believe that another on-the-cheap Nintendo handheld would change that. Honestly, heresy and unrealistic though it may be, it would actually make much more sense for Nintendo to get out of the handheld market entirely and just have a console that can go mobile. Outside Nintendo, console sales are on the rise and games like Splatoon showed that even Japan could still get drawn into console games if you provide enough doujinshi/hentai material.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 22, 2016, 01:05:39 PM
Nintendo opened Pandora's Box with the Wii and DS, essentially creating the casual market.  But that essentially just opened the door for non-gaming companies to step in and steal their market.  It's pretty obvious from the initial struggles of the 3DS and the weak sales of the Wii U that the casual market isn't interested in a dedicated videogame device now that electronic devices they already own for other purposes can play games.

So consoles and handhelds are for dedicated gamers now.  It's for the person for which videogames are more than a mindless distraction and mobile games are not enough.  That is the market that Sony and, to a lesser extent, MS have.  If Nintendo doesn't target that same audience, who do they truly have left?  Even with kids if parents buy them a phone and they still want a 3DS they're thinking "why am I buying him this when he already has a phone that can play games?"  Dedicated videogame devices are for people that know the difference between a good game and a F2P piece of **** and those people are not impressed with half-assed efforts with flashy gimmicks.

The market is splitting between dedicated videogame enthusiast and indifferent casual user looking to kill time.  Nintendo seems to be hovering in this no one's land between the two.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 22, 2016, 02:11:54 PM
Really? A lot of the stuff you just cited as qualities that embody the Sony/MS audience don't really match up with what I see at all.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: lolmonade on January 22, 2016, 02:37:34 PM
Quote
[size=0px]Nintendo opened Pandora's Box with the Wii and DS, essentially creating the casual market.  But that essentially just opened the door for non-gaming companies to step in and steal their market.  It's pretty obvious from the initial struggles of the 3DS and the weak sales of the Wii U that the casual market isn't interested in a dedicated videogame device now that electronic devices they already own for other purposes can play games.[/size]


Nintendo didn't create the market, those people who gravitated to Wii & DS that aren't dedicated gamers were ones who were the same people who likely didn't play anything other than snake on their phone or solitaire & Snood on their PC. 


Wii to Wii U Sales are also different IMO than when you're talking DS to 3DS.  For the Wii to Wii U, Nintendo had tapped into that market for various reasons with the Wii(scarcity, low price, word of mouth, social aspect & easy introduction into Wii Sports, simplicity in focus of system) that they were afraid to re-tread with their follow-up, or felt like the mass market would adopt the Wii U because of people's familiarity with tablets by then.


For the DS to 3DS, through most of the DS' lifespan, I think most people didn't have a smartphone competing for that space of gaming a LOT of people bought one for (Nintendogs, Brain Age). By the end of DS & start of 3DS, it was almost hard to find a non-smartphone in stores, and all of them have a robust app store that had many games similar to those that were a fraction of the cost or ad supported.  The reality of Mobile gaming is that the actual market left for the kind of games 3DS offers has likely shrunk to the same "core" gamers that mostly go to consoles.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 22, 2016, 03:53:35 PM
I was playing with both an Ipad and a Vita at best buy yesterday. I was thinking their border dimensions were not that different.  I'm ok with smaller joysticks. The smaller buttons were never much of a problem on DS.  If they just take a wii U controller, then enlarge the screen by 20%, change the buttons and just sticks to the smaller ones, then they can keep the controller comfortable and have a bigger/more tablet sized screen.  Or actually they could leave the buttons the same size and shrink the joysticks. I don't know if small joysticks could have click though, you could add a function button next to the joysticks just so games could be ported over.

(http://i.imgur.com/7JAYxBR.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/GlKYuIG.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/A9y3wII.jpg)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: rlse9 on January 23, 2016, 01:02:20 AM

Theres talk of a 900p support for the next console, that could be the screen on the controller.  the current one is 854x480

1080p is 1920x1080

Ipads are like 1024x768

900p is probably 1600x900 (based on photoshop's constrain proportion algorithm)

That's accurate for the older generation of iPads but all of the newer models are 2048x1536.


The gamepad could have been good.  Every time I use it I can't help but notice how incredibly low resolution it is and using for off-TV play on anything other than virtual console games feels like a waste because Wii U games look so much better on the TV than on the Gamepad.  And even in a small apartment with the Wii U centrally located, I couldn't use the Gamepad in my bedroom to play games or watch Netflix in the kitchen while making dinner.  If it had decent resolution and range, I would have been much happier with it.  There have definitely been some good uses for the Gamepad but it has never felt revolutionary or game changing.


I've been reading this thread throughout but haven't posted much because I don't have any idea what Nintendo is going to do with the NX and don't have an idea of what they should do but it's been interesting reading everyone's ideas.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 23, 2016, 03:30:09 AM
I had meant to put 1st generation up there. But I also thought it was moot. I ran my computer at 1024x768 for years, and its a good resolution. Even for some 13 inch screens. It looks shitty on this monitor, but this one is like a 24 inch one or something like that. On a 9 inch or less screen 900p would actually look pretty good.

They definitely need multi touch. Not being able to pinch and zoom sucks.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 23, 2016, 07:39:59 AM
I thought the 900p "leak" was false. 900p is too high for a handheld Nintendo releases for $200. 540p on a less than five in screen (on both regular and XL models) is more likely with 720p being the absolute highest and that's pushing it. For comparison's sake, Vita has a five inch qHD screen. Assuming Nintendo goes with a similar size screen as DS XL and 3DS XL's 4.88 inch 240p top screen (though I'd expect the aspect ratio to be 16:9 rather than 5:3), 540p is a marked improvement.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: The Lucky Moose on January 23, 2016, 01:20:48 PM
At this point I believe we're either talking a hybrid device that requires only one purchases (imagine you could plug the Vita into a TV and use it as a controller rather than having to buy a PSTV to play Vita games on a TV - that's what I think it would be like) or simply two devices that share only some games (again, much the like the PS4 and Vita). All the more esoteric guesses, especially the ones we have heard the last few days, seem absolutely crazy to me, given actual market realities and Nintendo's corporate culture.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 23, 2016, 06:49:06 PM
Well If Nintendo is planning its handheld with its console. They could just be sold separately. $129 for the handheld.
$300 for the console. They put in a traditional controller + wii mote support.

The traditional controller is a Gamecube controller with joystick clicks and an extra Z button.

The Gameboy as it would be called is a single screen handheld with a fat big screen.

The console is called NES 7 or Gamecube 2 or gamecube 4. Hopefully not 3dwii
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 23, 2016, 07:53:32 PM
Wii U Pro Controller > GameCube Controller

At this point, NX has been known as "NX" for so long Nintendo should just keep the project name. It works and it's easy to pronounce. Since the console and handheld will undoubtedly be connected, maybe NX-Home and NX-Mobile.

Also, I can't imagine Nintendo going back to a single screen handheld. After so many years with a second supplementary screen, it's hard to imagine a Nintendo handheld without it. I'm playing through Majora's Mask 3D and it's just a significant improvement with the second screen.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 23, 2016, 09:40:51 PM
I have become quite fond of the Wii U Pro Controller, but the Gamecube Controller has an amazing design that is extremely comfortable despite hindering the utility of certain buttons.

In any case, I could imagine moving away from a dual screened design but only if the handheld was compatible as a controller for the home console, thus allowing backwards compatibility.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 23, 2016, 09:46:25 PM
Nintendo usually has the project names for a long time, and also the project names are usually cooler names for the consoles then the real names

Ultra 64, Dolphin, Revolution, Cafe, NX

It doesn't even feel like that long ago Wii U was Cafe and all the developers were getting on board. Always amazed that they are on board and abandon the console 1 year later.

As far as the second screen goes... Why do you need 2 screens if you have just one big screen?  1 large screen could act as 2 screens if you just split the screen.

What would be kind of interesting is a 2 part handheld. 1 part are the controls and the other part is the screen. Where depending on if the game is letterbox or portrait you can connect the controller part up in different ways.

(http://i.imgur.com/2XgErZ5.jpg)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 24, 2016, 08:07:57 AM
In any case, I could imagine moving away from a dual screened design but only if the handheld was compatible as a controller for the home console, thus allowing backwards compatibility.
I can see Nintendo going back to a single screen handheld if it doesn't care about backwards compatibility on the handheld though I get the impression that it does. Since Nintendo is undoubtedly moving away from PowerPC, it probably wants to emulate every previous generation of console and handheld to be playable on both handheld and console. Based on vague comments by Iwata and the fact that Nintendo released a cross-buy game in 2014, cross-buy Virtual Console is the logical next step. Outside of a few more intensive games, I think every first party title will be shared between console and handheld.
Nintendo usually has the project names for a long time, and also the project names are usually cooler names for the consoles then the real names
The project names certainly bucked console naming conventions though I really can't imagine Nintendo getting away with "Dolphin" or "Cafe." I rather liked the names "Nintendo 64" and "Gamecube." "Revolution" was badass, but it wouldn't work in Japan. "NX" is good branding. It doesn't need an abbreviation. It's easy to remember and universally easy to pronounce.
Quote
As far as the second screen goes... Why do you need 2 screens if you have just one big screen? 1 large screen could act as 2 screens if you just split the screen.
Portability.
Quote
What would be kind of interesting is a 2 part handheld. 1 part are the controls and the other part is the screen. Where depending on if the game is letterbox or portrait you can connect the controller part up in different ways.
I think that creates more problems. The best part of a handheld is that it's a self-contained gaming unit.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 24, 2016, 01:02:51 PM
Do remember, Nintendo patented a handheld with customizable (i.e. replaceable) button configuration.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 24, 2016, 02:12:55 PM
But Nintendo (and most companies for that matter) patents most ideas just in case. Look back at how many patents it hasn't used over the years.

EDIT: auto-correct
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on January 24, 2016, 02:46:59 PM
This is true.

However, a customizable handheld could overcome developer issues with specific control schemes. I truly think western support was lost without the inclusion of a second stick on the 3DS.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 24, 2016, 03:30:49 PM
Western third parties generally don't care about handhelds. Their bread and butter is on PC and consoles. Even if the right circle pad is really a problem, I expect NX-Mobile to have it for parity with NX-Console. Nintendo just has to figure out how to add the click to the circle pads which shouldn't be too much trouble.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 24, 2016, 05:11:59 PM
Maybe Nintendo still sees 3rd pillar. It continues the DS line, revives the Gameboy line, continues the console line with improved connectivity. Then it binds them all together with unified steam style accounts. Play Mario anywhere.

Or maybe if they just made a phone? Gameboy MP
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 24, 2016, 05:21:02 PM
One of their biggest issues right now is that they don't have the resources to adequately support two separate platforms, so I really don't think adding a third is the way to go.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on January 24, 2016, 07:33:28 PM
Yeah, they had to pull in people to make mobile games for them, so I don't think a third pillar is the way to go.

I'm thinking the NX portable still has 2 screens, not only for backward compatibility, but also because I think Nintendo will improve on the gamepad concept.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 24, 2016, 08:40:27 PM
Would that be an issue with a unified platform?

What if the platform was being held up by pillars?

Honestly during this portion of development I just speculate wildly.

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=16688.0

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/forums/index.php?topic=16688.msg667008;topicseen#msg667008

some people got pretty close

(http://i.imgur.com/sqjW5.jpg)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on January 28, 2016, 02:21:58 PM
https://twitter.com/serkantoto/status/692755598497046528

Quote from: @serkantoto on twitter

Bandai Namco is currently developing several NX titles. Smash Bros is planned to be a launch title. I am not sure about the date - yet ;).

People seem to be believing this tweet, so I wanted to drop it here.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on January 28, 2016, 02:25:33 PM
I still think the NX is a handheld.  Smash 4 can gain a lot more from being on a more powerful handheld than a more powerful console.  I'm also hoping this paves the way for the Ice Climbers to come back.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 28, 2016, 02:51:06 PM
NX collectively is both a handheld and console. It's just a matter of which one Nintendo releases first because there's a case to be made for each. On one hand, Wii U is languishing. Nintendo should try to replace it with a worthy and more importantly finished successor sooner rather than later. On the other hand, Nintendo essentially has the handheld market to itself again with Sony essentially bowing out quietly. Nintendo should be trying to protect that market with a successor as 3DS has been showing its age and New 3DS hardly picking up the slack. Wii U at least has a major holiday release as it continues to tout Zelda as a Wii U game though I think we can expect an NX version. Currently, 3DS has nothing announced for Q4.

Personally, I think NX-Console should launch this year (if not both) since Wii U is in such bad shape, but NX-Handheld is probably more likely. New 3DS, as expected, didn't rejuvenate sales the way Nintendo hoped it would. To date, it has one exclusive. Nintendo knows what its money maker is hardware-wise and will try to capitalize on it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on January 28, 2016, 03:14:55 PM
I think there's two games playable on nN3DS that aren't on the regular 3DS. I remember someone correcting me when I said there was only one.  Not that it's significantly better.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 28, 2016, 03:48:35 PM
My bet is the handheld SKU launches this holiday, with the console in the first half of 2017.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Stratos on January 28, 2016, 04:27:53 PM
As much as we want it, and as much as it would benefit Nintendo, they will not be able to get their console out this year if they want to launch it properly and with good support.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 28, 2016, 05:17:42 PM
Console should go first since the 3DS is successful enough to hang on for a bit longer and the Wii U clearly is not but Nintendo are morons so they'll do handheld first.

The Wii U seemed to sell a lot better once games like Mario Kart and SSB showed up for it.  Perhaps Nintendo noticed that and think it would be important to get SSB available on the NX from day one.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on January 28, 2016, 05:48:11 PM
Console should go first since the 3DS is successful enough to hang on for a bit longer and the Wii U clearly is not but Nintendo are morons so they'll do handheld first.

The Wii U seemed to sell a lot better once games like Mario Kart and SSB showed up for it.  Perhaps Nintendo noticed that and think it would be important to get SSB available on the NX from day one.

I think the handheld needs to go out first for reasons you stated in the second paragraph.  Let the console games cook a little longer.  Wii U had to wait for it's bigger, sexier, more notable titles.  Wait until those are absolutely ready before launching.  Wii U can ride out the year (and probably thus its existence) on Star Fox and Zelda.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on January 28, 2016, 06:17:37 PM
Console should go first since the 3DS is successful enough to hang on for a bit longer and the Wii U clearly is not but Nintendo are morons so they'll do handheld first.

The Wii U seemed to sell a lot better once games like Mario Kart and SSB showed up for it.  Perhaps Nintendo noticed that and think it would be important to get SSB available on the NX from day one.

I think the handheld needs to go out first for reasons you stated in the second paragraph.  Let the console games cook a little longer.  Wii U had to wait for it's bigger, sexier, more notable titles.  Wait until those are absolutely ready before launching.  Wii U can ride out the year (and probably thus its existence) on Star Fox and Zelda.

The Wii U doesn't just have to ride out "the year".  When do you think in 2017 it would launch?  Nintendo usually launches consoles around November so it's really riding things out for almost TWO years.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Stratos on January 28, 2016, 06:32:51 PM
Nintendo has released consoles in the Spring before. I could see them doing it again if they pull it off right.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on January 28, 2016, 06:48:09 PM
Console should go first since the 3DS is successful enough to hang on for a bit longer and the Wii U clearly is not but Nintendo are morons so they'll do handheld first.

The Wii U seemed to sell a lot better once games like Mario Kart and SSB showed up for it.  Perhaps Nintendo noticed that and think it would be important to get SSB available on the NX from day one.

I think the handheld needs to go out first for reasons you stated in the second paragraph.  Let the console games cook a little longer.  Wii U had to wait for it's bigger, sexier, more notable titles.  Wait until those are absolutely ready before launching.  Wii U can ride out the year (and probably thus its existence) on Star Fox and Zelda.

The Wii U doesn't just have to ride out "the year".  When do you think in 2017 it would launch?  Nintendo usually launches consoles around November so it's really riding things out for almost TWO years.

I was thinking closer to the summer.  But you're right.  However, I think Nintendo's got a few more unannounced games to pad it though.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 28, 2016, 08:43:33 PM
Nintendo launched 3DS in February in Japan and in March in North America and Europe so it isn't afraid to launch new hardware outside of November.

Targeting different territories with specific hardware is something Nintendo should consider, and it would match up to that rumor that Nintendo is planning to ship 20 million units in 2016. Maybe Nintendo can reach that number with two separate NX products. Handhelds are more popular in Japan so naturally, it'd make sense to get NX-Handheld out there as soon as possible. It would launch with virtually no competition from other dedicated gaming products. Then, Nintendo launches NX-Console in North America and Europe. That's why it'd be really, super helpful if Zelda Wii U became NX exclusive rather than pulling another Twilight Princess and launching on both (with the NX version releasing first). Anyone who would get mad probably already attended the Internet Rage School of Boycotting, where they learned to complain, threaten to boycott then just buy the game and console anyway. Pair Zelda with Metroid and Super Smash Bros. for NX and Nintendo has a really strong first party launch lineup.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 29, 2016, 08:46:44 AM
This generations there should be no excuses for a drought. The games that are supposed to come out on NX should have been in development in early 2014 or late 2013.

That's how I would plan it anyhow.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on January 29, 2016, 12:42:03 PM
Nintendo has moved around their handhelds and other devices but have they ever released a home console outside of the holiday or Fall window? Closest I can think of was N64 that came out end of September. I am still not convinced NX has to be two separate machines, but I am convinced something from that initiative is launching this year for sure.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Mop it up on January 29, 2016, 03:21:06 PM
Nintendo launched 3DS in February in Japan and in March in North America and Europe so it isn't afraid to launch new hardware outside of November.
The 3DS also sold poorly in its first year, so Nintendo might consider this was a factor and not just the price.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 29, 2016, 04:33:39 PM
Nintendo has moved around their handhelds and other devices but have they ever released a home console outside of the holiday or Fall window?
I checked Wikipedia. Nintendo launched NES in Japan in July and SNES in North America in August.
The 3DS also sold poorly in its first year, so Nintendo might consider this was a factor and not just the price.
Nintendo knows it makes most of its money in Q4. With 3DS and Wii U, Nintendo has both met and missed releasing in that quarter. 3DS was delayed to 2011 because it wasn't ready. Wii U was rushed in 2012 despite not being ready. That said, I think Nintendo understands the common thread there. When you launch only matters if people actually want what you're selling. Both launches lacked compelling software and were priced out of what consumers deemed acceptable which is especially troubling for Wii U because at least the Basic Set was sold at a loss.

The $80 price drop helped exponentially though 3DS sales naturally improved once Nintendo actually released some software. Nintendo closed 2011 with Mario Kart 7 and Super Mario 3D Land. Depending on the territory Nintendo's first party launch lineup was Nintendogs + Cats, Steel Diver, and Pilotwings Resort. That won't get it done by any metric. Nintendo had more and better games on 3DS in nine months than Wii U did in double that time.

That why NX is probably getting a shared library for first party games. Portable games these days are similarly as complicated and costly as console games, and Nintendo can't keep up.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 29, 2016, 05:02:19 PM
Yeah, I think the 3DS would have sold just fine right out of the game if it had been $200 instead of $250 and the software came quicker. It sold better early in its life than the DS, which had a November release, even as it was.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Mop it up on January 29, 2016, 05:07:44 PM
I'm just saying, you never know what kind of conclusions Nintendo will come to. Not always the obvious ones. I'm not convinced that they fully understand why the Wii U was not successful, but that's tough to tell until their next system is released.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Shaymin on January 29, 2016, 08:24:36 PM
This generations there should be no excuses for a drought. The games that are supposed to come out on NX should have been in development in early 2014 or late 2013.

That's how I would plan it anyhow.

I would wager that the big teams would be ready for launch. We know Retro's next game (may it be DKC3 for the gigantic salt mine) is showing up on the "next console", EAD Tokyo has only put out Captain Todd since 3D World... wasn't the reason there were so many spinoffs last year because they're saving as much as possible for the next system?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on January 30, 2016, 03:27:44 PM
Magnetic Resistive DPAD and Buttons

Today is February 1st 2016 (I post from the future) I'm ready to make my NX prediction. The NX Go will have Magnetic Resistive DPAD and Buttons. I'm not even sure what that means.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Stratos on January 30, 2016, 07:02:16 PM
That's actually a brilliant idea! Use electromagnetism to create tactile resistance based on what you are doing in the game.


Example: New Donkey Kong Country game has a windy level where the winds push your character back and forth. The greater the wind, the stronger the magnetic resistance in the buttons when you press down the direction you want to go.


Another example: Yet-Another-Mario-Sonic-Olympic-Title has a swimming game where you repeatedly press a button to kick your legs. The lower your stamina gets, the stronger the resistance is against your pressing.


I believe the old Shockwave Force Feedback joysticks did something similar to create resistance in stick controls to better simulate winds in flight games. I think it could even force the stick to move on its own as well.


This could be a great way to return gaming immersion back to its roots. The rumble pack was the last time there was a genuine (and successful) attempt to create immersion in "traditional" style gaming.

Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ShyGuy on January 30, 2016, 10:38:43 PM
I look forward to resistive force feedback from Sony and Microsoft at E3 2017.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: MagicCow64 on January 31, 2016, 12:56:03 AM
I look forward to resistive force feedback from Sony and Microsoft at E3 2017.

I mean, it's kind of funny how Microsoft and Sony both responded really droolly to the Wii with the Move and Kinect, and then even after the WiiU flopped there is still quiet acknowledgement about the value of the companion screen with various apps.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on January 31, 2016, 04:20:13 AM
Sony jumped on that bandwagon well before it flopped.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on January 31, 2016, 04:21:46 PM
Here's a question that popped into my head as I was glancing over my collection, what colour do you think NX games will be if any?

Xbox and PlayStation both have their iconic colours, the closest Nintendo has is white although that went away with Wii U, probably to try to differentiate it from Wii. While 3ds boxes are still white the 3ds has that red motif going on that differentiates it from DS.

I like Xenoblade 3d with it's black box in Europe so personally I'd go with something like that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on January 31, 2016, 04:32:40 PM
Honestly, indigo. Just the game cases, not the actual console (black should be marketed for obvious reasons even if Nintendo released different colors). It's eye catching. The only potential problem is that Kinect cases were purple.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on January 31, 2016, 07:27:20 PM
I think NX should be Light Grey, Dark Gray, and a hint of Red for lettering. There should be like a black stripe somewhere.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 01, 2016, 02:12:42 AM
I liked the white clean look for everything on the Wii and Wii U.  However, I can see why Nintendo could want to distance themselves from that.  It really depends on what Nintendo will do with games.  Are they cartridge based, download only?  Disc? 

They should try to make sure the NX section looks distinct and easy to see in a store. 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on February 01, 2016, 05:58:32 AM
Most Wii U game cases are blue. Nintendo made the mistake of not using Blu Ray cases though it generally did a terrible job of differentiating itself from Wii so no surprises there. If Nintendo exclusively uses game cards for NX, it definitely should use smaller game cases in addition to a different color. Not does this help distinguish and distance NX from Wii and Wii U, but it also saves money on packaging and shipping. It doesn't seem like much looking at an individual game, but multiply that a few million times and the savings adds up which also helps drive the cost of Game cards are smaller and inherently more durable than optical discs. They don't need big, hard cases. 3DS game cases are noticably thinner and lighter due to using fewer materials than DS cases, mainly because they don't need to. In fact, 3DS cases are probably too big.

Nintendo shouldn't make the game cases too small because it stands to make NX games look insignificant. Packaging is important in the retail space. When facing forward on shelves, the box art should be large enough to draw attention to itself without consumers having to lean on and squint.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on February 01, 2016, 09:37:09 AM
Why not go all the way down to CD sized cases? Nobody had a hard time buying CD's when they were new, or cassettes back in the dark days either. Just saying casing isn't that important in today's digital world, it needs to stand out but they can afford to take risks here because they need to look as different from the other guys as possible, if they are going for different, or as similar to the other guys if they are going for just better. They cases should be black Blu Ray sized or CD sized cases if they are discs, or RED, red makes the most sense as Nintendo color, but whatever the packaging is the least important feature to worry about so thanks for putting it out there now Nintendo will fixate on the packing at the expense of everything else.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Mop it up on February 01, 2016, 03:43:43 PM
I think that red is the most iconic/classic colour that Nintendo have, so that would make for good case design.

To that end, I think it's about time to bring back the "Entertainment System" name. It would actually make even more sense now than it did back then, since game consoles no longer just play games, they also have things like movie and TV services, so they truly are entertainment systems now. I'm not entirely sure what would be good to add to "Nintendo Entertainment System" since they can't use the exact same name again, though. NES 7, maybe?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 01, 2016, 04:48:33 PM
Red must be a accent color.  It can never be the dominant color.  I like the idea of making the cases the size of CD cases even if it for a disc game.  It also saves room for the person storing the games. 

White, Grey and Red could be good. 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Stogi on February 02, 2016, 08:41:36 AM
I still don't think the NX will be all that big, at least not as big as a PS4 or XBONE. So I think an all red console with white and grey highlights would look great. It's distinct, immediately recognizable, and intriguing. If I saw a red box next to my friends TV, I would ask "what the hell is that?" It's color would have done its job.

And they should definitely bring back the NES name. It's nostalgic, easily understandable, and speaks to the features. They could get away with calling it the "NES" if they wanted to, but I do think they should call it the "Next Nintendo Entertainment System" or the NNES. It rolls off the tongue and it doesn't fight the war of numbers like it's rivals. There's probably a better original name out there, but it's hard to argue against using "NES" again.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on February 02, 2016, 08:50:01 AM
They could use Microsoft logic and called it the Nintendo 8, or Nintendo Entertainment System 2 or Nintendo Entertainment System 8 and they beat PS4 and Xbox One in the name by numbers category. They really do need to let people know that they are still making consoles, when I tell people I own a Wii U they ask me what is it, so I stopped explaining it and instead of saying I own a Wii U I just say the new Nintendo system and they say, oh cool I didn't know they had a new one and then I can talk about it.

The fact they are the ONLY gaming company left from the early days still going is something they need to flaunt, they don't just have nostalgia on their side, if they play it right they have longevity on their side and they could use that in their marketing, not some silly "Mario grew up with you too" mushy crap but more like the Play it Loud, Now You Are Playing with Super Power, thing, something like, Hey Remember Atari, Sega, Coleco, Amiga, no well that's because you were too busy playing Nintendo and guess what we are still here, alive and kicking. It doesn't need those words but that message, they survived the the crash, they survived the 90's barrage of endless gaming devices, they survived the ipads and the androids, and they put Microsoft in their place. Nintendo needs to capitalize on that and get their damn balls back. This always apologizing hurts their image, if they really believe in the Wii U fucking have the back bone to show it, if they do NOT believe in the NX to have the balls to come out and say hey don't get a stupid out dated nothing PS4 that only plays the same tired **** your getting bored of by now, but a fucking NX that has all this new exciting plus really cool retro schick stuff you forgot how much you loved, and play off that, whatever the new feature is FUCKING OWN IT. They need their damn balls they need confidence that is all everything they do will be better if they act like they believe in it and stop apologizing for their **** ups.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: alexdickdyke on February 02, 2016, 11:12:04 AM
I think that red is the most iconic/classic colour that Nintendo have, so that would make for good case design.

To that end, I think it's about time to bring back the "Entertainment System" name. It would actually make even more sense now than it did back then, since game consoles no longer just play games, they also have things like movie and TV services, so they truly are entertainment systems now. I'm not entirely sure what would be good to add to "Nintendo Entertainment System" since they can't use the exact same name again, though. NES 7, maybe?




NESX
XNES
NXES


X as in cross.
I really like the Nintendo Cross for some reason. And it would help to explain the dual platforms, if that is in fact what they are doing. 
Nintendo Cross Entertainment System? some form of this seeing as they (japan) like using cross in their game titles lately.
I like the blue colored cases, and purple could be cool too.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on February 02, 2016, 01:28:42 PM
I find the macho posturing of Sega in it's heyday and Sony in its entirety to be absolutely asinine. While I agree that Nintendo should use their logevity to drive home the pint that they have been consistently profitable and a presence in the medium, they can pull it off with more finesse than "LOOK AT HOW FUCKING GREAT WE ARE". At the same time, they shouldn't rely too heavily on nostalgia as they have with recent 25/30th anniversary promotions.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Mop it up on February 02, 2016, 05:29:49 PM
Red must be a accent color.  It can never be the dominant color.
Eh, they've made red cases for Mario games and I see no problem with those.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Stratos on February 02, 2016, 08:05:37 PM
Grey with red and black accents for the consoles and the cases. And bring back the old racetrack logo to the forefront.


I like the Nintendo Cross Entertainment System (NXES). Or Nintendo's Cross Entertainment System (NCES / Nintendo's CES). Heck, The Nintendo System (TNS) would be a nice, simple name.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ShyGuy on February 02, 2016, 08:55:50 PM
A tidbit from President Kimishima - it seems that NX might interact with Miitomo somehow.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 02, 2016, 09:20:51 PM
Grey with red and black accents for the consoles and the cases. And bring back the old racetrack logo to the forefront.


I like the Nintendo Cross Entertainment System (NXES). Or Nintendo's Cross Entertainment System (NCES / Nintendo's CES). Heck, The Nintendo System (TNS) would be a nice, simple name.

I think it is wise to give your console a name not totally associated with your corporate brand.  I think this is a lesson Nintendo learned wisely around the Nintendo 64 era, when people complained about game prices.  If Nintendo used The Nintendo System then if that system fails the name Nintendo is also associated with that failure.  However, right now, only Wii U and Wii by name association could be considered a failure.  Even though it is the Nintendo Wii...people just think Wii because of marketing.

So a Name like the Nintendo Cross Entertainment couldn't work because to fully understand what people are talking about you have to say Nintendo Cross.  Otherwise, you could just have a Cross because you are religious. 


Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on February 03, 2016, 10:26:35 AM
A tidbit from President Kimishima - it seems that NX might interact with Miitomo somehow.

I'm thinking Miitomo will interact directly with Miiverse, so the NX should be able to interact that way.  Let you add people, post, check your 'yeahs', etc.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on February 03, 2016, 07:19:26 PM
They might be able to keep the Cross in the name in Japan but I could see some group claiming it was religious propaganda in the west.

I like the idea of making the game cases red. But I want the console to be slick and black like everything else. The only color I would be okay with other than black is maybe silver or a shiny gray.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on February 03, 2016, 07:47:04 PM
I'm going to guess that if you asked 99% of the population to read the title "Namco × Capcom" out loud they would say "Namco EX Capcom".  X = cross is not even close to a typical English language convention.  So using something like that would actually be worse than confusing names like Wii U and New 3DS because almost everyone would pronounce the name wrong.  Or, even worse, they hear someone saying the name right but then can't correlate it with this X named system they see in the store.  "Hey you have the N-Cross-ES?" you ask the misinformed store clerk and he says "no, I have the NXES?  Is that the same thing?" and confusion ensues.

I would call it Nintendo [Insert distinct name here].  Put Nintendo in the front so everyone knows that Nintendo's making it and then have something distinct that has nothing to do with Wii or DS or could be confused for some competing product (ie: NX would be naturally confused with Xbox) or a prior Nintendo console.  Nothing like Xbox 1 where you make it near impossible for someone to clarify if they mean your current product or the very first one you ever made.  Nothing that resembles potty talk in the English language so no Nintendo Dik or Nintendo Pu.  It's hard to come up with something catchy or cool but it is NOT hard to avoid something idiotic.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Spak-Spang on February 03, 2016, 09:44:35 PM
I am one of those people Ian.  EX or just Versus
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on February 03, 2016, 10:26:46 PM
What about the XES? I like that. Then hipsters can say the Cross Entertainment System and normies can say EX EE ES.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Shaymin on February 04, 2016, 12:02:00 AM
And the first smartass to flip that acronym around is...
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on February 04, 2016, 01:01:58 AM
X = cross is not even close to a typical English language convention.
Wait, what? There are xing signs all over the United States: school xing, ped xing, deer xing etc.
Quote
Nothing like Xbox 1 where you make it near impossible for someone to clarify if they mean your current product or the very first one you ever made.
Was this ever really a problem? The original Xbox came out in 2002. Was anyone even still talking about it in 2013 let alone now in 2016. The problem with the name "Wii U" is that Nintendo did a terrible job communicating that the console itself was a new and more importantly, separate thing from its predecessor. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck...

Anyway, I rather like the name Nintendo NX (as in en-ex, though I don't hate en-cross). It's a good name for a family of systems. Since DS, Nintendo has had some weird philosophy attached to the name of its hardware. It could easily say "The 'X' represents 'cross,'" and then everyone forgets about it except on message boards when it's randomly brought up in discussions of about product names like how "'DS' stands for 'dual screens' or 'developer's system.'"

Speaking of, Nintendo DS was the original codename which was changed to Nitro then changed back to Nintendo DS before becoming the official name. That said, it's entirely possible that Nintendo keeps the name NX.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Stratos on February 04, 2016, 01:55:31 AM
And the first smartass to flip that acronym around is...


Hah! I totally missed that one. I could see them stumbling into a hole in that manner.


Maybe get rid of the S? Nintendo Entertainment Platform? Nintendo Gaming System?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on February 04, 2016, 02:04:21 AM
Oh! Even better! It promotes the hybrid between the consoles. The SYSTEM ENTERTAINMENT CROSS!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on February 04, 2016, 09:58:37 AM
"Nintendo Games Machine"
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on February 04, 2016, 11:34:27 AM
With how long the NX name has been out there, I wouldn't be surprised if they kept it, honestly. I know someone expressed a similar thought earlier in the thread, but I don't think Nintendo has every really been this open about the code name of a system prior to this.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on February 04, 2016, 12:14:48 PM
Has it been a year since they said "NX"?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on February 04, 2016, 12:18:32 PM
When was the DeNA acquisition? I believe sometime in February or March.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on February 04, 2016, 01:02:38 PM
X = cross is not even close to a typical English language convention.
Wait, what? There are xing signs all over the United States: school xing, ped xing, deer xing etc.

Never for a second thought about those.  Still I think 99% of the population will be read it as the letter X, not as cross.  It's EX-Men, not Cross-Men.  If they made it the Nintendo xing then people might get it but NXED or something like that?  No.  Why even use something that is open to interpretation when it's not necessary?  They can come up with something that has no risk of confusion.  Nintendo's margin of error on the NX is miniscule.  They shouldn't risk anything on something as trivial as a name.  There is no reason to get cute with something so basic.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on February 04, 2016, 01:26:56 PM
A particular solution to this, which was emphasized with the DS logo design, is showing a literal image of the concept- the two boxes next to the DS in the logo represent the dual screens. If you put an image of one console in the top "arrow" of the X and one in the bottom, you have them being led towards a centerpoint.

Another answer could be the current Monster Hunter logo- emphasize the first two letters of the words, or even insert "Cross" into the X to better communicate it.

I'll definitely be putting together some mockups.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on February 04, 2016, 05:48:06 PM
Nintendo did such an exceptionally poor job of communicating with consumers that an absurd amount of people didn't even know Wii U was a thing. That's why naming the console "Wii U" was a bad move. The name may have been okay had Nintendo bothered to explain that it was a brand new console. Then, it went to places like Pottery Barn to market Wii U. It was like Nintendo was trying to keep the thing a secret.

It isn't so much about what Nintendo calls the console as it is people knowing it exists. Being part of public consciousness is the important bit. Even if a consumer doesn't walk into a store looking to buy NX; they should at least know what it is.

Nintendo can do a lot worse than NX. I'm not convinced it can do better, just similarly.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Mop it up on February 04, 2016, 06:18:12 PM
I've always felt that "Xbox" was a stupid name, and adding 360 or One doesn't make it any better. But the brand (eventually) did fine despite that.

Now, "PlayStation" I think is an okay name. It's simple and gets the point across. I dunno if it helped the system's success, but it certainly didn't hurt it. Also, I think naming a system with its name and then a number is fine (PS2, PS3, PS4); why do systems need a new name every time? It's never made much sense to me that new systems had new names. This convention is simple and easy to understand that PS4 is the new system to PS3. Why should there even be any need to explain a name or that something is a new system?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on February 04, 2016, 06:36:14 PM
Are you suggesting the Wii U 2?

Because I like where your head is at.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on February 04, 2016, 07:05:28 PM
NES8: The Ocho.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on February 04, 2016, 07:19:52 PM
I've always felt that "Xbox" was a stupid name, and adding 360 or One doesn't make it any better. But the brand (eventually) did fine despite that.
"Xbox" sounds sillier without the history behind it. The console was originally pitched as the "DirectX Box," named after Microsoft's API. Had it stuck, DirectX Box would have been the most utilitarian console name ever. It was named after exactly was it was, more so even than GameCube which wasn't an actual cube.

The meaning behind the original name is practically lost with the truncated "Xbox" label. At the same time, it still works. A product name doesn't have to mean anything so if you aren't going with something literal like "DirectX Box," something simple is a good choice.
Quote
Why should there even be any need to explain a name or that something is a new system?
I think that's why NX works. It doesn't even need to mean anything. Nintendo is weirdly attached to assigning some philosophy to the branding of its products yet the best names are the ones that are practical even without said philosophy. For example, Nintendo DS is good branding because its easy to remember and easy to say in most languages, not because DS means anything. 3DS works because its sequential and utilitarian. It's a DS follow-up with 3D capabilities. That said, NX could mean something, but even if you strip that away, you're left with two letters that are, again, easy to say and easy to remember.

I am a fan of simplicity and sequentiality. I think "Wii 2" would have been a better name for Wii U even if that wouldn't have fixed Nintendo's inability to explain what Wii U was. I was in favor of calling a successor Nintendo 7 just because it's so stupidly simplistic. The main purpose of branding is so people know what to call it then it should get out of the way.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 04, 2016, 08:54:32 PM
nickmitch wins.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on February 04, 2016, 10:05:04 PM
Are you guys counting right?

1. NES
2 SNES
3 n64
4 GCN
5 wii
6 wii u
7 NX

or do you count ColorTVGame?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 04, 2016, 10:41:36 PM
Well, Nintendo does have a precedent for starting to name things by number when they get to 7.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on February 04, 2016, 11:58:24 PM
NX is a stupid name for a console it is obviously a code name. Nintendo System X would be okay but they need the Nintendo brand in the name, they need to avoid X though it is too similar to Xbox. That got them in trouble with Game CUBE.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 05, 2016, 12:01:31 AM
I don't see how NX is any worse of a name than DS, which was also a code name, and they sold like 170 million of those.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on February 05, 2016, 12:06:02 AM
It wasn't DS, it was Nintendo DS, people knew it was a Nintendo console, NX is too vague. If they called it Nintendo X it could be confused for X box, if they called it Nintendo Cross there are people in the US anyways who might mistake it for a religious thing, see some of the talk back threads. DS stood for Dual Screen, they made that clear when they were talking about it before hand, so far we know literally nothing about "NX" so what does it supposedly stand for? It is terrible in that regards. It sounds cool and people have gotten used to it but Revolution sounded a thousand times infinity better than that idiotic, piece of ****, no good, nothing, stupid ass, lame, crap fest name they went with.

DS didn't sell one console because the name, not calling it Game Boy had no impact either DS was like the Nintendo Piss, it was right place, right time, but the damn was lame.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 05, 2016, 12:19:48 AM
I wasn't arguing that it sold based on the name, just that the name clearly didn't have any negative effect on sales. Also they said DS stood for Developer's System as well as Dual Screen, and never referred to it as either in any kind of marketing or really anywhere outside very gamer focused settings like E3 roundtables and such.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on February 05, 2016, 12:36:25 AM
Well sure, but there was something out there for gamers to reference. All I said was the name is kind of lame, gave my reasons why I felt that way and you replied with DS was a code name, the same old example people point to but DS did have dual meaning, we have nothing official on what the hidden meaning behind NX is, is it NExt Generation, Nintendo Extra, N Cross, it could be anything we don't know. It is really odd they are taking this long to talk about it though, no news at all on this, or any official word on new games. What about QoL are they still working on that if so when do they start talking about it?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on February 05, 2016, 10:39:06 AM
Nintendo: Dual Significance.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Mop it up on February 05, 2016, 01:36:57 PM
"Xbox" sounds sillier without the history behind it. The console was originally pitched as the "DirectX Box," named after Microsoft's API.
Ah, I'm sure I probably heard about that back in 2001, but wouldn't remember it now. The name makes more sense with that history, but I still think it sounds stupid. But that's my point, it doesn't matter if a name sounds stupid, as long as it isn't confusingly stupid.

Of course, when it comes to sequentiality, they need to come up with a decent enough name in the first place. And if a company has a system that isn't very successful, I could see wanting to move away from that branding and trying something new. Wii U 2 won't work for both those reasons, as well as possibly getting themselves into legal trouble with the band U2. Then again, being associated with U2 may also make the system more popular... But yeah, in the past most systems got new names even when the predecessor was successful; I don't see what would be wrong with NES 2, Genesis 2, etc. Though Super NES wasn't bad.

Also, as dumb as it sounds, I do think they shouldn't use the letter X in the name because of the Xbox. Microsoft sort of "own" the letter as part of a name for a game system, so you never know what kind of perception that would lead to. And why risk it?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on February 05, 2016, 02:29:47 PM
Here are some personal anecdotes related to Nintendo names.  My brother didn't know the Wii U even existed until last year when I started expressing interest in trying to find a cheap Wii U for Mario Maker and Xenoblade.  He sure as hell knew about the Wii but had no knowledge of the Wii U and had to clarify with me what the difference between it and the Wii was.

Although the DS was very successful I always have to explain to my parents what the hell it or the 3DS is if I mention it in conversation.  I usually say "eh... Game Boy" and they're like "Oh yeah I know what a Game Boy is".  I think for their age group a short acronym comes across as too technical and thus too complicated.  "Game Boy" consists of clear words that they already know so it's easier to remember and put into context.  Hell my parents just hear "DEE-ESS" and have no idea what weird made-up word I just said.  The DS brand is over ten years old and yet every time my parents see me playing it and ask what it is and I respond "DS" they get this confused stare like they don't understand my answer.  And there is no point explaining the difference between a Wii and Wii U.  One made up word now appended with another one that sounds like the English words "we" and "you" but arranged in a way that makes them gibberish?  The **** they were ever going to understand that.  Names like PlayStation, Xbox and even Gamecube are actually pretty good because they just combine words that everyone of any age knows.  Sony has it best.  PlayStation is an easy word for all ages to grasp, gives an indication that it is at least entertainment based and the whole 1,2,3,4 naming convention is really intuitive.  PlayStation 4?  Hmmmm, must have been released after the PlayStation 3.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on February 05, 2016, 03:19:09 PM
I got tired of explaining to people Wii U was a whole new console so I stopped calling it Wii U and just say the new Nintendo system. My parents had a Wii they loved it, when I got the Wii U they asked me to hook it up to their Wii. I still can't get them to understand it is not a attachment for Wii. Doesn't help that it plays Wii games and I happen to have a few of those too. Mom wanted me to get Mario Maker for her Wii and I had to once again explain how it won't work on hers, and she wanted me to get her a tablet for her Wii.

I know anecdotal but naming wise Wii U was a mistake. Hell I just had the cable guy at my house and was telling him I am a gamer, I have a PS3, a PS4 and a Wii U and he said I have a Wii too, its great and I showed him mine he was confused why mine was bigger than his and I said it was a Wii U not a Wii and he asked whats the difference.


To be fair not everyone is going to get it though, my dad used to tell people I had an Xbox back when I had a Game Cube and I always corrected him and he would invite people over to play games and they would show up expecting Halo and I pulled out a GC, we would play some Smash Bros or some Mario Kart.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on February 05, 2016, 11:01:25 PM
Honestly, at this point, I wonder how many people would reply, "What's that?" or "Nintendo still makes videogame systems?" if Nintendo didn't reuse the 'Wii' name.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on February 05, 2016, 11:29:48 PM
I don't see why Reggie can't be like "that's a stupid name!" and not get fired.

I'm in favor of naming systems after things that are cool; like animals.

It works with cars

Mustang Jaguar Cobra Sable Viper Beetle Impala Ram Bronco Gremlin Firebird Thunderbird

Nintendo Ninja, Nintendo Neptune, Nintendo Nirvana,

Nintendo NX sounds cool too
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Caterkiller on February 05, 2016, 11:56:49 PM
I was Amiibo shopping around Christmas and over heard a mom confused about Wii and Wii U. I couldn't believe it was still happening.

I like the NX code name but I understand the idea that it could be troublesome with the Xbox brand floating around. I like Nintendo Cross as well but would religious freaks really get up in arms about it and have it result in something meaningful?

Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 06, 2016, 10:03:37 AM
Nintendo has the awkward situation of inserting the name of the company into their product names, but they don't have to say that the 'N' in NX stands for Nintendo. But anyway, michaelbaysuperfan616, your argument has no merit. They can call it the Nintendo NX, and everyone else will just call it the NX. No one talks about their Microsoft Xbox One, or their SONY PlayStation 4, they call them Xbox One (or just Xbox, or Xbone) and PS4. DS does not officially stand for anyting - some people assume that it means "Dual Screen" but Nintendo used the acronym as shorthand for "Developer's System" - and if it did mean the former, then 3DS means "3 Dual Screen" - which makes no sense. They never said what the 'i' in "DSi" meant either, but one rep said it means "individual."

My point: quit whining. If they call it "Nintendo NX", or just "NX," then that's what they call it. If they call it something else, then that's what they call it. NX is not any worse than DS. No one is going to confuse it with Xbox. Seriously. You see two consoles in the store and think they're the same thing? You don't have internet? Maybe some grandmothers might buy the wrong game for their grandson on his birthday, but the grandson will realize the difference before he opens the game and exchange it at the store, or online, or whatever. Wii U and Wii - those are stupid, and potentially confusing, names - largely due to the "non-gamers" that bought so many Wii consoles.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on February 06, 2016, 11:56:57 AM
Ah, I'm sure I probably heard about that back in 2001, but wouldn't remember it now. The name makes more sense with that history, but I still think it sounds stupid. But that's my point, it doesn't matter if a name sounds stupid, as long as it isn't confusingly stupid.
Absolutely. When I think about it, "Xbox" is a stupid name, but when I talk about it in regular conversation, I don't think about the name being stupid. It's just "Xbox." Even if DirectX Box stuck, people likely would have just called it "Xbox" anyway because it's easier which was probably the entire reason behind truncating it. The branding isn't as important as the message. Give people something they want, and it doesn't matter what the thing is called. We'll all get used to it.
DS does not officially stand for anyting - some people assume that it means "Dual Screen" but Nintendo used the acronym as shorthand for "Developer's System"
It does on both counts. The explanation is on Nintendo's website: "To our developers, it stands for 'Developers' System,' since we believe it gives game creators brand new tools which will lead to more innovative games for the world's players. It can also stand for 'Dual Screen.'" I'm only bringing this up because:
Quote
Nintendo has the awkward situation of inserting the name of the company into their product names, but they don't have to say that the 'N' in NX stands for Nintendo... They can call it the Nintendo NX, and everyone else will just call it the NX...

If they call it "Nintendo NX", or just "NX," then that's what they call it. If they call it something else, then that's what they call it. NX is not any worse than DS. No one is going to confuse it with Xbox.
Agreed. I would like to add that even if Nintendo insists on an explanation for the name, it stops being a thing because most people won't remember it if they were even privy to that information in the first place. Outside of these meager forum discussions, no one ever talks about why Nintendo called its handheld "Nintendo DS" or its console "Wii." They're just what we call them now.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: ThePerm on February 06, 2016, 08:16:21 PM
also, don't forget the x in Xbox also means X as in unknown variable. When people used to discuss consoles made by companies other than Nintendo, Sony, or Sega we would call it an X box. We didn't know who would make the xbox ultimately and we didn't know what they would call it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 07, 2016, 09:24:55 AM
It does on both counts. The explanation is on Nintendo's website: "To our developers, it stands for 'Developers' System,' since we believe it gives game creators brand new tools which will lead to more innovative games for the world's players. It can also stand for 'Dual Screen.'" I'm only bringing this up because:
That's kind of my point (and maybe you're agreeing with me?) - yes, to Nintendo, internally, and among developers, it means "Developer's System" but the system itself, its packaging, or its marketing, has never explained what it stands for. It's just "DS" and "3DS" and people buy it because of what it is, without regard to what it's supposed to mean.
Give people something they want, and it doesn't matter what the thing is called. We'll all get used to it.
Exactly.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on February 07, 2016, 09:28:27 PM
Xbox and Playstation don't need the company names in them because they're brands.  I think Nintendo was trying to make "Wii" to a brand (not just a name).

Personally, I think Nintendo is best off throwing their name back into the title of the system, but giving it a strong enough name to carry itself and be iterated upon (if desired).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Dasmos on February 08, 2016, 12:50:02 AM
I don't see why Reggie can't be like "that's a stupid name!" and not get fired.

I'm in favor of naming systems after things that are cool; like animals.

Nintendo Thundercougarfalconbird?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on February 08, 2016, 10:22:56 AM
They could just call it "The Nintendo" or even "Nintendo X" and it would be OK.
I don't think the name matters at all in terms of sales either, never said it does, but it does matter in consumer confusion and the last thing Nintendo needs is any excuse for customers to not get excited for the machine. Instead of taking the approach of just make a machine that fits Nintendo's definition of a console and throw it out there quirks and all, they desperately need to make something that checks ever box and gets everyone excited without any major hold up that causes them to think twice. The name is trivial but it can affect perception which can be hard to overcome. Say what you will about Wii sales, it DID NOT have good perception it sold well despite that, mostly, no entirely on the strength of Wii Sports. Everything else was the same old Nintendo we have been dealing with 1996. 20 years of crap Nintendo coming off barely 10 years of Great Nintendo, no wonder Nostalgia isn't enough to keep them a strong force anymore, they are running out of good will when it comes to that nostalgia.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on February 08, 2016, 12:04:11 PM
If you have consumer confusion, you have a sales problem.  One can cause the other.  The name is a factor in that.  Yeah, yeah; marketing, news coverage; blah, blah, blah.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on February 08, 2016, 03:33:24 PM
It could lead to some loss of sales but not really, it then falls on the sales rep to explain the difference. With Wii and Wii U yes it can be confusing, but with a brand new console, unless they name it the Nintendo Power Station or the Nintendo Box there isn't going to be confusion between their machine and their competitions machine.

Damn you Nintendo gives us SOMETHING so we can stop bickering over what the name is or isn't going to not be.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Mop it up on February 09, 2016, 04:02:32 PM
There will always be at least some confusion over new products, be it from indifference, ignorance, or whatever else. They can still try to choose a name that would result in less of it than some others might, and I personally feel they can do better than NX. Sure, they could also do a lot worse, but still.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: sudoshuff on February 09, 2016, 09:12:06 PM
I would actually be OK "The Nintendo", or some variation of their name, with some really cool Kanji in the logo.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2016, 12:16:12 AM
NintenGen (http://www.nintengen.com/) is run by this dude who posts on neogaf as Trevelyan9999 (he also goes by SuperMetalDave64 on The Youtube). He posted two interesting NX stories recently. The first is a rumor that both Final Fantasy VII Remake and Final Fantasy XV are being ported to NX. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDWlNBk9eow) He doesn't claim this as anything but a rumor. His source has supposedly been right about things in the past. The second is a bit juicier as he's passing it off as news rather than rumor: NX is definitely launching in 2016 and Zelda Wii U is a launch window game. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RYJiVUgcSdE) He claims to have received this information from a verified source within Nintendo.

Is there any reason to believe him?

Well, he has something to lose. He runs his own website and a Youtube channel that would immediately lose traffic if he's a fraud. He also faces being perma-banned from neogaf. My understanding of neogaf is that if you claim to have sources or actually be an insider, they make you prove it via private message to the moderators. He sent his proof earlier today and is pending approval. In fact, he's been pretty adamant about wanting to get this done which is the exact opposite behavior of someone dicking around.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. He didn't have to start posting on neogaf again where his credibility would immediately be called into question. Sources reaching out to Youtubers isn't a new thing either. Liam Robertson/Tamaki/Unseen64 started by doing his own investigative work on cancelled games and slowely built contacts over the years. Robertson was a guest on a podcast I listened recently, and he detailed how he got started. Sometimes developers reach out to him because they like his channel and his work.

Neither of these NX bits are that surprising. Cloud appearing in Super Smash Bros. made an NX port of the Remake seem like something that could actually happen. If Nintendo drops optical media, it would be so fitting for Nintendo to not only get the game but get it on a cartridge/card. I'm not that excited about the Remake; I just want that to happen. I would definitely buy it if all the episodes were on a single card.

NX launching in 2016 with a port of Zelda Wii U at or around launch isn't particularly sexy news. I figured both would happen once NX was announced last year. I'm not bragging; it just seems like common sense.

Anyway, here's an idea I've been noodling around for a few days: what if NX-Handheld supported Google Chromecast? I feel like that's the closest to a hybrid device that one can hope for. This begs the question: if the console and handheld have a largely shared library, why would anyone bother with the console? Because the handheld is still just the handheld. It'd be stretching the picture, and it's definitely not HD. That will be good enough for some people, not everyone. I think Nintendo knows that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on February 21, 2016, 12:45:28 AM
I'm only buying Zelda Wii U for one console.

If Final Fantasy XV comes to the system, that would be neat, but not if its a year-and-a-half late bloomer like some Wii U ports were. The Final Fantasy VII remake is going to suck so there's no reason to be excited for that.

It's weird- if the NX ends up being a handheld, I'll be really excited, but honestly, if it's a console, there's no way I'm picking it up close to launch. The Wii U has been such a sore spot and I don't really think I can get myself all excited for a new console just yet. It needs to have a bit of promise.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on February 21, 2016, 09:29:42 AM
Chromecast (at least the first generation) has a little lag if you cast a game to it (though it isn't *horrible* - at least not for games where maybe 50ms lag is acceptible - a 2D Mario game would be unplayable though), at least with my Nvidia Shield Portable. Could be be cause it only supports 2.4Ghz WiFi, the newer model does ac.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on February 21, 2016, 10:13:08 AM
The Final Fantasy VII remake is going to suck so there's no reason to be excited for that.
Why do you think it going to suck? I'm not going to argue; I'm just curious.
Chromecast (at least the first generation) has a little lag if you cast a game to it (though it isn't *horrible* - at least not for games where maybe 50ms lag is acceptible - a 2D Mario game would be unplayable though), at least with my Nvidia Shield Portable. Could be be cause it only supports 2.4Ghz WiFi, the newer model does ac.
I was trying to come up with some "brand-new concept" ideas. With Nintendo embracing mobile, it'd be a good for NX to support different technologies. Nintendo could always make its own streaming dongle, but the point was to keep cost down as in this could be an extra thing the handheld could do if you already had a Chromecast or wanted one. The handheld and streaming dongle would close the price gap with the console. I suppose this wouldn't be a terrible thing since if you want a console, you'd get the console, and the dongle would still be optional.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Soren on February 21, 2016, 12:44:53 PM
Has Nintendo unveiled a console/handheld and then released it in the same calendar year?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Shaymin on February 21, 2016, 01:38:44 PM
The closest they would have come would have been the GBA/Gamecube, which were both unveiled in the same year (2000) and released the next year. So if two form factors of NX come out this year, it'd be unprecedented.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on February 21, 2016, 02:10:14 PM
As far as I can recall, we didn't know anything at all about the DS until early 2004, and it came out in November of that year. And we didn't really know much of substance about the Wii until 2006, with effectively nothing shown at E3 2005 and the controller at TGS that year.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on February 21, 2016, 04:04:32 PM
So if FF7 remake is supposedly coming to the system and so is the next proper full HD console release along side Zelda Wii U, doesn't that pretty much prove NX is going to be a full console? They just released New 3DS last year, there is no reason for them to abandon that so soon. Wii U is the machine that is slipping into a coma.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Soren on February 21, 2016, 11:22:07 PM
I have no where else to put this so here it is. Mistwalker (The Last Story) and Silicon Studio (Bravely Default) have just announced they're working on a new game. Sakaguchi teased some new concept art for a game coming to current gen consoles at a University of Hawaii class earlier this year. Throw NX in the pile somewhere in there and profit.

That is all.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Lucario on February 21, 2016, 11:35:41 PM
So if FF7 remake is supposedly coming to the system and so is the next proper full HD console release along side Zelda Wii U, doesn't that pretty much prove NX is going to be a full console? They just released New 3DS last year, there is no reason for them to abandon that so soon. Wii U is the machine that is slipping into a coma.
This is how I feel about the NX
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Soren on February 22, 2016, 07:47:11 AM
Quote
My source informed me that it was ok to reveal that they are an Employee that works for Nintendo of America’s Marketing.

Ok, now I know it's BS. You may resume your regular rumor mongering.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: ShyGuy on February 28, 2016, 09:11:52 PM
RIDICULOUS Rumors:

http://dualpixels.com/2016/02/27/rumor-new-information-on-next-gen-nintendo-nx-console/

Probably fake, but it all sounds so exciting!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 28, 2016, 11:18:57 PM
RIDICULOUS Rumors:

http://dualpixels.com/2016/02/27/rumor-new-information-on-next-gen-nintendo-nx-console/

Probably fake, but it all sounds so exciting!

-Wireless HDMI... play on any screen w/ a HDMI port....
so ultra portable console?

- Full Haptic feedback and motion controls
that sounds good. wireless controllers will no longer last 30hrs on a single charge though.
if the controller is another uPad, then it better come with a MUCH larger battery from the start.

- Bluetooth EVERYTHING
that sounds pretty awesome actually. I like that Nintendo finally decided to take an idea and not halfass it as it was only included for some very specific feature in a flagship game. Do it all out.
that goes for this, the motion controls (now w/ Haptic)

- Powerful enough to handle anything the PS4 & XBone can handle, and extremely easy to code/compile games for.
I guess that's good for 3rd party parity... until PS5/XBtwo comes out. I know we aren't trying to chase power here, and more power cost more money, time & effort, but I don't want 3rd parties to have the same excuses as before for not supporting a major player.

- Increased Social/Multi-player aspects built in, with a very power and user friendly Android-like OS that allows you to use the device to connect to whatever and interact with whatever so that the device is useful for more than just gaming, but becomes a kind of Persona Entertainment/Social HUB  that you can use all the time.
As I said before, assuming this is all true, a large step in the right direction for Nintendo to go all in on an idea and push it to it's potential, instead of marginalizing the idea down to it's usefulness for a very specific function/idea/game.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on February 29, 2016, 12:17:05 AM
Yeah, I'm skeptical. If one of these things turned out to be true I would be happy.

Just one.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: MagicCow64 on February 29, 2016, 12:44:49 AM
There's just no way they could roll out a portable device that could run PS4-level games at anything approaching a viable price point.

I like the streaming dongle idea in theory, and have myself proposed something similar to salvage the proprietary Wii U tech, but if anything that would be a "GBA player" type bonus that would let you play handheld NX games on a TV if you didn't own the console. But even then it's questionable why they would want to discourage adoption of the dedicated home unit out of the gate.

As for the other stuff, I mean, whatever I guess either way. It seems to me that trying to roll every possible app or widget or activity into a video game ecosystem is futile and really only appeals to weirdo video game identity types who want to route everything through their systems just to do it, not because it's actually more convenient than using the phone that they already have on them at all times. I'd wager most people are good with a handful of video streaming services (which they can just run through their TVs at this point anyway).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 29, 2016, 01:06:56 AM
If Nintendo is taking the idea of making an everyday use device, or a all-in-one social entertainment system, then they better make sure it operates quickly and smoothly.

I also hope they leave in an expansion slot, as the FCC is trying to push new regulation that will open up the set-top box market to everyone. Which means that Nintendo can have a cable card add on, that will allow your NX to be your new cable box, and then that TVii App Nintendo tried on the Wii U would actually make sense and be useful.

I don't know what NX is supposed to be.... portable console? handheld? hybrid/combo?
but if they are aiming to take the place of a centralized everyday use machine for the house, to replace something like the Roku, while also interacting w/ your cellphone, replacing your remotes, and to be your videogaming device - it has to function quickly, smoothly and intuitively.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on February 29, 2016, 04:05:30 AM
So this time it's 200 GameCubes strapped together, this makes total sense!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on February 29, 2016, 11:55:04 AM
I like this bluetooth everything idea.  I think an updated Wii Fit that could connect to my FitBit would be pretty sweet.  I like Wii Fit for the interface/weight tracking, but it's easier to wear a FitBit than keep the Wii Fit tracker in my pocket.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on February 29, 2016, 01:01:58 PM
Seems too well executed to be a Nintendo console.  It's a shame that we're at the point where the idea of a Nintendo console that isn't a complete fuckshow is not believable.  I fully expect that NX to be a complete disaster that doubles down on every bad idea Nintendo has had for the last 20 years, while introducing some new bad habits and getting rid of a few good ones.  I don't want to feel this way but I just don't trust this company at all and they have yet to demonstrate any real change that suggests that they're getting their **** together.  Hell, this is supposedly all stuff Iwata put into motion before he died so it isn't even like the new management would abruptly change the company's direction this soon.

This rumoured idea seems like it could work and it seems like a much more legitimate effort to actually compete.  I'm skeptical of the cost and battery life for some of these ideas.  The haptic feedback where the analog stick forces back on you sounds neat but that would cost money and how worthwhile is such an idea?  I imagine we would all be wowed by it for the first few days and then grow sick of it and forget it's even there.  I really don't see the point in investing in minor gimmicks like that that really don't add much value but affect the cost.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on February 29, 2016, 04:09:44 PM
Ian has low expectations.

Water is wet.

Mind you, I don't have great confidence in the system either. But if it had full bluetooth integration I'd see that as a smart step forward from Nintendo.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Louieturkey on February 29, 2016, 07:47:14 PM
I think if it is as powerful as PS4, then it'll compete directly with it through at least 2020.  I think both Sony and Microsoft want at least 7 years out of these consoles and probably would prefer even more.  Nintendo has usually been on a 5 year cycle for their consoles.  The Wii U and the Wii together will be 10 years (if the console version comes out this year). So it'll line up well if their next console comes out in 2021, a year after or right with the PS5/NeXtBox.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on February 29, 2016, 10:41:35 PM
Water is wet.

I've always been bothered by this expression. Can water really be "wet"? Isn't wetness defined by the presence of water in a solid?  I mean, you add water to a towel, you have a wet towel; you add water to water, you just have. . .more water.

This rumoured idea seems like it could work and it seems like a much more legitimate effort to actually compete.  I'm skeptical of the cost and battery life for some of these ideas.  The haptic feedback where the analog stick forces back on you sounds neat but that would cost money and how worthwhile is such an idea?  I imagine we would all be wowed by it for the first few days and then grow sick of it and forget it's even there.  I really don't see the point in investing in minor gimmicks like that that really don't add much value but affect the cost.

To me, it depends on the cost of the gimmick.  There's the cost to the player in controller costs and battery life.  I certainly wouldn't want to pay materially more for haptic feedback, but it'd be neat to have.  I also don't like losing battery life.  What would get me though, is a feature that Nintendo bets the farm on that falls flat.  I don't think this is it, however.  Not that it wouldn't wow a crowd, but that it would cost Nintendo the metaphorical farm.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on February 29, 2016, 11:48:41 PM
I'm as skeptical as anyone when it comes to Nintendo taking a great idea and making it all it can be, and that's from the last few console cycles of experience of being burned by "innovation" for a very specific use and a singular idea that could have been so much more had they just let it be.
 
Yeah, most times they supposedly held back due to cost, which is a necessity since Nintendo has not been very good at branching out of just videogames to diversify their revenue stream and strengthen the brand.
But sometimes an idea wears thin quickly if you don't see it all the way through. (case in point - the wiimotes w/o motionplus built in from the start - the upgrade 4 years down the road should have been the motion tracking camera system and Nintendo could have completely dominated the motion game and maybe it wouldn't have mostly died out like it did. Had they eaten the cost up front, the success of the Wii would have more than paid off on that gamble, and since they were offered that 3D motion camera that MS bought, before MS bought it, they could have rejuvenated new interest to keep pushing sales over the top, but they didn't want to spend the money or look like they got an idea from somewhere that wasn't in-house developed)

Other times Nintendo just focuses on things that no one really gives a damn about and tries to push it like they are doing everyone else a favor. (like the gamecube's ultra portable smallness with mini dvd's designed for low power consumption.... who gives a ****. We want fun, good looking games. I don't travel w/ my GC, and I don't care that my GC saves me $50 a year in electricity if I gave it equal play to my PS or Xbox... but I do care that the latest game from my favorite 3rd party doesn't come on your system, because it would need 3-5 mini disc to fit. All of that might have been worth it had Nintendo taken the next logical step and released a portable GC, making use of small disc and low power consumption, but nope... never seeing a "good" idea through to it's full potential seems to be one of Nintendo's proudest qualities of recent times.)

So yes, I am very skeptical of any of that rumor, but I'm also an eternal optimist, even amongst all my pessimism. So I want to believe that Nintendo is capable, and I honestly hope they surprise me by following through on those beliefs, but I'm just no longer surprised when it all turns out to be a mere gimmick of an idea than the true revolution they were too short sighted to push for.

So with that being said, here's hoping Nintendo actually comes through on this one.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on March 01, 2016, 08:33:47 AM
The dual pixels rumor was (unsurprisingly) debunked.

Nintendo has managed to keep its cards extremely close to the chest. NX is reportedly under the strictest of NDAs. Most fan discussions are centered around following bread crumbs. It seems like Nintendo is waiting until the new fiscal year to start talking about NX. Unveiling and launching a new platform in an eight month span is a rather tall order.

Who knows what Nintendo's strategy is? If I had to guess (based on these bread crumb discussions), it's going after Japanese third parties hard (and indies to a lesser extent). It makes sense for Nintendo. 3DS got most of its notable third party support from Japanese publishers, and if the partially shared library thing proves true, Nintendo should be doing everything it can to leverage that. It's nice to get the Final Fantasies and Monster Hunters, but I think it's also a good deal to lock up the Bayonettas and other smaller, niche games. That's how Nintendo can lock up exclusives. That way, NX isn't just the Mario machine. It's the place people can get content that may get lost on PS4. Maximizing an obvious advantage on 3DS is a good start. I don't know if that can translate to getting Western third parties to care, but it's leagues better than where Wii U currently stands on third party support.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Soren on March 01, 2016, 09:40:03 AM
Who knows what Nintendo's strategy is? If I had to guess (based on these bread crumb discussions), it's going after Japanese third parties hard (and indies to a lesser extent). It makes sense for Nintendo. 3DS got most of its notable third party support from Japanese publishers, and if the partially shared library thing proves true, Nintendo should be doing everything it can to leverage that. It's nice to get the Final Fantasies and Monster Hunters, but I think it's also a good deal to lock up the Bayonettas and other smaller, niche games. That's how Nintendo can lock up exclusives. That way, NX isn't just the Mario machine. It's the place people can get content that may get lost on PS4. Maximizing an obvious advantage on 3DS is a good start. I don't know if that can translate to getting Western third parties to care, but it's leagues better than where Wii U currently stands on third party support.


How much impact do indies have in Japan? Aside from the ones headed by former big name employees of major companies. I can see the indie push as a big strategy from NoA, but not NCL. To be honest, I still don't know what NoA can do to grab western devs aside from having an impressive spec list and more open lines of communication and support.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on March 01, 2016, 09:50:42 AM
The dual pixels rumor was (unsurprisingly) debunked.

Nintendo has managed to keep its cards extremely close to the chest. NX is reportedly under the strictest of NDAs. Most fan discussions are centered around following bread crumbs. It seems like Nintendo is waiting until the new fiscal year to start talking about NX. Unveiling and launching a new platform in an eight month span is a rather tall order.

Who knows what Nintendo's strategy is? If I had to guess (based on these bread crumb discussions), it's going after Japanese third parties hard (and indies to a lesser extent). It makes sense for Nintendo. 3DS got most of its notable third party support from Japanese publishers, and if the partially shared library thing proves true, Nintendo should be doing everything it can to leverage that. It's nice to get the Final Fantasies and Monster Hunters, but I think it's also a good deal to lock up the Bayonettas and other smaller, niche games. That's how Nintendo can lock up exclusives. That way, NX isn't just the Mario machine. It's the place people can get content that may get lost on PS4. Maximizing an obvious advantage on 3DS is a good start. I don't know if that can translate to getting Western third parties to care, but it's leagues better than where Wii U currently stands on third party support.


All you described was their entire strategy with Game Cube, remember they vetted Capcom hard there too, and Sega, and Namco, and it didn't translate that well. Japanese companies are irrelevent in today's market pretty much out side of Final Fantasy, having just that and a few Japanese exclusives is going to win Japan, nothing else, if that is all they want then screw them.

They better get the big three westerns back on board AND vet the ones that used to love them, like Warner/Midway, and whatever is left of T*HQ's properties and Bethesday or even Rock Star, or whoever is making GTA now. No GTA no dice, that has been the big bane since N64. But Nintendo might have to actually beg on hands and knees to get GTA and that is as likely to happen as a Sega console rising from the ashes and taking the industry by storm.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on March 01, 2016, 10:58:28 AM
How much impact do indies have in Japan? Aside from the ones headed by former big name employees of major companies. I can see the indie push as a big strategy from NoA, but not NCL. To be honest, I still don't know what NoA can do to grab western devs aside from having an impressive spec list and more open lines of communication and support.
I was referring to Nintendo as a whole. Regardless of impact in Japan, Nintendo needs content.

And Nintendo hired Doug Bowser last May from EA. Maybe Nintendo hopes that connection can help rebuild that bridge.
All you described was their entire strategy with Game Cube
Did I? I don't any have fond memories of playing Final Fantasy X and the original Monster Hunter on GameCube. PS2 got the vast majority of Japan's top third party games, usually exclusively, on top of almost all the niche games also usually exclusively. Nintendo already has a foot in the door with Japanese third parties who have enjoyed success on 3DS. Japanese third party support may not be what it once was, but NX needs games. It needs more than Nintendo's first party titles. Getting as many of them on board is a good strategy and good start.
Quote
having just that and a few Japanese exclusives is going to win Japan, nothing else, if that is all they want then screw them.
Did anyone imply otherwise?
Maximizing an obvious advantage on 3DS is a good start. I don't know if that can translate to getting Western third parties to care, but it's leagues better than where Wii U currently stands on third party support.
Nintendo cares about Japan primarily because portable gaming is strongest there. I don't think Nintendo cares about "winning" so much as it cares about profits. You may disagree (even I have some quibbles with it), but that's a separate discussion. Protecting and cornering the Japanese market then using the support gained there to make its platforms more attractive in other markets is a good strategy for what Nintendo wants to do at the basest level. That shouldn't be Nintendo's only strategy, but no one is saying that. It's an upward battle for Nintendo; it should take any victory it can get.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 01, 2016, 11:22:37 AM
If Nintendo is making a home console (which I'm not entirely convinced is the case), they require the support of the ENTIRE Japanese gaming market, period. Console gaming is losing relevance in Japan and Japanese developers know that, which is why a powerhouse system with loads of content would be great for them and for Nintendo.

As for indies, the truth is, unless you adopt early or heavily emphasize exclusivity, your game is at risk on a console. Look at Jools Watsham's Mutant Mudds- it sold obscenely well during the early days of the 3DS and most of Renegade Kid's more recent releases have not shared the same success, simply because the market has become larger and more varied. Despite having a large amount of coverage in the eShop, lots of indies cite struggles to make profits on these systems. This results in products feeling a bit over-inflated in price or timed-exclusivity because they cannot afford to publish on one system. So while NoA has done well enticing a group of indies to their systems, I worry that it's not ultimately a viable option.

Nintendo just needs to make a system that can handle current gen western titles and also sell successfully, which is a tall order. However, it isn't enough to just make something easy to develop considering the poisonous reputation Nintendo has gained for cannibalizing sales. It's their great struggle as a hardware and software developer. Sure, one could argue that Sony and Microsoft also have first party titles, but not in the number or quality of Nintedo titles.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 01, 2016, 12:31:04 PM
This rumoured idea seems like it could work and it seems like a much more legitimate effort to actually compete.  I'm skeptical of the cost and battery life for some of these ideas.  The haptic feedback where the analog stick forces back on you sounds neat but that would cost money and how worthwhile is such an idea?  I imagine we would all be wowed by it for the first few days and then grow sick of it and forget it's even there.  I really don't see the point in investing in minor gimmicks like that that really don't add much value but affect the cost.

To me, it depends on the cost of the gimmick.  There's the cost to the player in controller costs and battery life.  I certainly wouldn't want to pay materially more for haptic feedback, but it'd be neat to have.  I also don't like losing battery life.  What would get me though, is a feature that Nintendo bets the farm on that falls flat.  I don't think this is it, however.  Not that it wouldn't wow a crowd, but that it would cost Nintendo the metaphorical farm.

You figure after the Wii U and 3DS Nintendo would know not to bet the farm on a gimmick that could fall flat.  That bit both systems in the ass.  With the 3DS they at least could offer the 3D-less model in the 2DS but the Wii U was just stuck with this expensive controller no one wanted.  There really wasn't a safety net.  Everything relied on gimmick X taking off and if it didn't Nintendo was fucked.  If I was Nintendo I wouldn't risk something like that happening again but this is Nintendo so they might look at how it worked for the Wii and think that the Wii U was the fluke and that THIS time it will work.  At the very least if they try something like that again they have to look more at the 3DS where they could axe the feature and still have a pretty worthwhile product.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on March 01, 2016, 01:25:04 PM
This rumoured idea seems like it could work and it seems like a much more legitimate effort to actually compete.  I'm skeptical of the cost and battery life for some of these ideas.  The haptic feedback where the analog stick forces back on you sounds neat but that would cost money and how worthwhile is such an idea?  I imagine we would all be wowed by it for the first few days and then grow sick of it and forget it's even there.  I really don't see the point in investing in minor gimmicks like that that really don't add much value but affect the cost.

To me, it depends on the cost of the gimmick.  There's the cost to the player in controller costs and battery life.  I certainly wouldn't want to pay materially more for haptic feedback, but it'd be neat to have.  I also don't like losing battery life.  What would get me though, is a feature that Nintendo bets the farm on that falls flat.  I don't think this is it, however.  Not that it wouldn't wow a crowd, but that it would cost Nintendo the metaphorical farm.

You figure after the Wii U and 3DS Nintendo would know not to bet the farm on a gimmick that could fall flat.  That bit both systems in the ass.  With the 3DS they at least could offer the 3D-less model in the 2DS but the Wii U was just stuck with this expensive controller no one wanted.  There really wasn't a safety net.  Everything relied on gimmick X taking off and if it didn't Nintendo was fucked.  If I was Nintendo I wouldn't risk something like that happening again but this is Nintendo so they might look at how it worked for the Wii and think that the Wii U was the fluke and that THIS time it will work.  At the very least if they try something like that again they have to look more at the 3DS where they could axe the feature and still have a pretty worthwhile product.

I don't know if the 3DS really relied on the 3D.  Sure, it was the novelty that set it apart, but the 3DS was also a new and improved NDS.  It had the widescreen up top, a better eShop, the circle pad, and specs.  It could actually house better games than its predecessor. The Wii U kind of needed developers to be inspired by and make really great games surrounding the uPad, but no one really did.  That lack of support contributes to the Wii U's lack of sales, but I don't really see how the 3D cost the 3DS.  It may have driven up the price, but I still contest that the early price drop was caused by a lack of software initially.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Stratos on March 01, 2016, 03:57:04 PM
The dual pixels rumor was (unsurprisingly) debunked.


How was it debunked? I thought that the source was already deemed credible? Or was it the site themselves who made the source up?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on March 01, 2016, 04:24:15 PM
How was it debunked? I thought that the source was already deemed credible? Or was it the site themselves who made the source up?
It was debunked on neogaf. Someone discovered that the Dual Pixels rumor was copied word for word from a 4chan thread from December. Before that, other posters with greater technical knowledge were calling out hardware power part of the rumor (e.g. The closest in terms of “power” it gets to is the Xbox One, but an app idea is Wii U x50 and Playstation Vita x100) as nonsensical.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 01, 2016, 04:28:54 PM
This rumoured idea seems like it could work and it seems like a much more legitimate effort to actually compete.  I'm skeptical of the cost and battery life for some of these ideas.  The haptic feedback where the analog stick forces back on you sounds neat but that would cost money and how worthwhile is such an idea?  I imagine we would all be wowed by it for the first few days and then grow sick of it and forget it's even there.  I really don't see the point in investing in minor gimmicks like that that really don't add much value but affect the cost.

To me, it depends on the cost of the gimmick.  There's the cost to the player in controller costs and battery life.  I certainly wouldn't want to pay materially more for haptic feedback, but it'd be neat to have.  I also don't like losing battery life.  What would get me though, is a feature that Nintendo bets the farm on that falls flat.  I don't think this is it, however.  Not that it wouldn't wow a crowd, but that it would cost Nintendo the metaphorical farm.

You figure after the Wii U and 3DS Nintendo would know not to bet the farm on a gimmick that could fall flat.  That bit both systems in the ass.  With the 3DS they at least could offer the 3D-less model in the 2DS but the Wii U was just stuck with this expensive controller no one wanted.  There really wasn't a safety net.  Everything relied on gimmick X taking off and if it didn't Nintendo was fucked.  If I was Nintendo I wouldn't risk something like that happening again but this is Nintendo so they might look at how it worked for the Wii and think that the Wii U was the fluke and that THIS time it will work.  At the very least if they try something like that again they have to look more at the 3DS where they could axe the feature and still have a pretty worthwhile product.

I don't know if the 3DS really relied on the 3D.  Sure, it was the novelty that set it apart, but the 3DS was also a new and improved NDS.  It had the widescreen up top, a better eShop, the circle pad, and specs.  It could actually house better games than its predecessor. The Wii U kind of needed developers to be inspired by and make really great games surrounding the uPad, but no one really did.  That lack of support contributes to the Wii U's lack of sales, but I don't really see how the 3D cost the 3DS.  It may have driven up the price, but I still contest that the early price drop was caused by a lack of software initially.

The 3DS was too expensive at first and Nintendo felt the need to give early adopters free games to make up for a quick price cut.  I think they thought that this glasses 3D thing was just so damn cool that everyone would trip over themselves to pay the high price and it didn't happen and they were really caught off guard by it not happening.  And while the 3DS is a new and improved DS isn't the Wii U also a new and improved Wii so it's a similar approach.  I don't know exactly how much the 3D feature cost but the existence of the 2DS suggests that Nintendo thought they had priced the thing out of the "buy it for your kids for Pokémon" price range and getting rid of the feature was necessary to make the cheaper model.

Now the 3DS also had a pretty weak initial lineup and then so did the Wii U.  Gimmicks are usually used to hide deficiencies and I think Nintendo had taken from the Wii/DS years the bad lesson that a cool gimmick will draw attention away from other problems.  Nintendo clearly did not have the resources to properly support both platforms without expanding since they've been alternating between each platform getting stronger support at the expense of the other one.  The idea was probably that 3D and the Gamepad were such cool features that consumers would be so impressed by them that they wouldn't notice other issues like a lack of games or high prices.  When the gimmicks flopped Nintendo had to work hard to make those platforms appear worthwhile to consumers.  You don't have to do that if you have a platform that can attract healthy support and you have the resources to develop games on a frequent schedule.  Something like that doesn't need a gimmick and even you had one, the product wouldn't be in trouble if the gimmick flopped.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 01, 2016, 05:33:55 PM
The Wii U is a drastically different piece of hardware in comparison with the Wii, the two do not go hand-in-hand.

The 3DS is a more powerful DSi. Touchscreen, Wifi, camera, SD card slot. The 3D was a selling point, for sure, but can only enhance the display, not detract from the experience.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 01, 2016, 06:12:58 PM
The Wii U is a drastically different piece of hardware in comparison with the Wii, the two do not go hand-in-hand.

The 3DS is a more powerful DSi. Touchscreen, Wifi, camera, SD card slot. The 3D was a selling point, for sure, but can only enhance the display, not detract from the experience.

What does the Wii do that the Wii U can't?  Seems to have all the same features as the Wii plus better specs and the Gamepad, same as how the 3DS can do everything the DS could and more.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 01, 2016, 07:48:03 PM
The 3DS's improvements are largely iterative. The only exception to that might be gyro, as the DSi had AR gaming.

The Wii U's gamepad is a completely different type of hardware with different utilization than the Wii Remote. Wii remotes working on Wii U =/= Gamepad working on Wii.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: BranDonk Kong on March 01, 2016, 08:17:34 PM
Why would I buy this when I can just buy 100 PS Vitas?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Stratos on March 02, 2016, 12:08:57 AM

Why would I buy this when I can just buy 100 PS Vitas?

Do you have that much duct tape lying around? Stuff doesn't grow on trees where I am from, hence why Nintendo has hit a gold mine with this idea. Gen after this they should try taping some Gamecubes... oh wait.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on March 02, 2016, 03:19:27 PM
This rumoured idea seems like it could work and it seems like a much more legitimate effort to actually compete.  I'm skeptical of the cost and battery life for some of these ideas.  The haptic feedback where the analog stick forces back on you sounds neat but that would cost money and how worthwhile is such an idea?  I imagine we would all be wowed by it for the first few days and then grow sick of it and forget it's even there.  I really don't see the point in investing in minor gimmicks like that that really don't add much value but affect the cost.

To me, it depends on the cost of the gimmick.  There's the cost to the player in controller costs and battery life.  I certainly wouldn't want to pay materially more for haptic feedback, but it'd be neat to have.  I also don't like losing battery life.  What would get me though, is a feature that Nintendo bets the farm on that falls flat.  I don't think this is it, however.  Not that it wouldn't wow a crowd, but that it would cost Nintendo the metaphorical farm.

You figure after the Wii U and 3DS Nintendo would know not to bet the farm on a gimmick that could fall flat.  That bit both systems in the ass.  With the 3DS they at least could offer the 3D-less model in the 2DS but the Wii U was just stuck with this expensive controller no one wanted.  There really wasn't a safety net.  Everything relied on gimmick X taking off and if it didn't Nintendo was fucked.  If I was Nintendo I wouldn't risk something like that happening again but this is Nintendo so they might look at how it worked for the Wii and think that the Wii U was the fluke and that THIS time it will work.  At the very least if they try something like that again they have to look more at the 3DS where they could axe the feature and still have a pretty worthwhile product.

I don't know if the 3DS really relied on the 3D.  Sure, it was the novelty that set it apart, but the 3DS was also a new and improved NDS.  It had the widescreen up top, a better eShop, the circle pad, and specs.  It could actually house better games than its predecessor. The Wii U kind of needed developers to be inspired by and make really great games surrounding the uPad, but no one really did.  That lack of support contributes to the Wii U's lack of sales, but I don't really see how the 3D cost the 3DS.  It may have driven up the price, but I still contest that the early price drop was caused by a lack of software initially.

The 3DS was too expensive at first and Nintendo felt the need to give early adopters free games to make up for a quick price cut.  I think they thought that this glasses 3D thing was just so damn cool that everyone would trip over themselves to pay the high price and it didn't happen and they were really caught off guard by it not happening.  And while the 3DS is a new and improved DS isn't the Wii U also a new and improved Wii so it's a similar approach.  I don't know exactly how much the 3D feature cost but the existence of the 2DS suggests that Nintendo thought they had priced the thing out of the "buy it for your kids for Pokémon" price range and getting rid of the feature was necessary to make the cheaper model.

Now the 3DS also had a pretty weak initial lineup and then so did the Wii U.  Gimmicks are usually used to hide deficiencies and I think Nintendo had taken from the Wii/DS years the bad lesson that a cool gimmick will draw attention away from other problems.  Nintendo clearly did not have the resources to properly support both platforms without expanding since they've been alternating between each platform getting stronger support at the expense of the other one.  The idea was probably that 3D and the Gamepad were such cool features that consumers would be so impressed by them that they wouldn't notice other issues like a lack of games or high prices.  When the gimmicks flopped Nintendo had to work hard to make those platforms appear worthwhile to consumers.  You don't have to do that if you have a platform that can attract healthy support and you have the resources to develop games on a frequent schedule.  Something like that doesn't need a gimmick and even you had one, the product wouldn't be in trouble if the gimmick flopped.

I think the initial software drought hurt the 3DS more than the price did.  Sure, it was a little more expensive than it needed to be, but the lineup of games just made it not worth having with so little to play on it.  I wouldn't say the 3DS gimmick flopped, either.  It didn't take the market by storm, but it was a down market for the industry anyway.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: ShyGuy on March 03, 2016, 10:09:10 AM
Man, I hope this rumor is true:

http://www.destructoid.com/rumor-nintendo-funding-beyond-good-and-evil-sequel-346059.phtml?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Come to where we love you, Michel Ancel!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: michaelbaysuperfan616 on March 03, 2016, 10:27:39 AM
I would be less excited for another failed game from the Cube era making a return than I was with Wind Waker. Nintendo has some strange priorities reviving commercial failures just because some small group of fans can't let go. Nintendo doesn't have a good track record of investing in mature titles they should just stay out of it. They gave up Rare they need to move on. Rare was their best avenue for getting mature titles and they blew that.


BUT I will say this, someone will argue any exclusive is better than nothing but I disagree, the right exclusives matter the wrong exclusives paint a bad picture. Still the first game was good hence why I doubt Nintendo can make a sequel good.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: ShyGuy on March 03, 2016, 02:10:13 PM
I just want a sequel to one of my favorite games.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Louieturkey on March 03, 2016, 02:29:59 PM
I just want a sequel to one of my favorite games.
I'm with ShyGuy, BG&E was one of my favorite games.  I've been patiently waiting for a sequel that Ubisoft actually announced like 10 years ago. If Nintendo funding it gets it made faster, I'm all for that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 03, 2016, 02:43:59 PM
Was Bayonetta 2 a bad exclusive?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on March 03, 2016, 03:23:18 PM
Apparently the Beyond Good and Evil 2 rumor is from the same source as the Dual Pixels rumor so make of this what you will.

I think it would be a good idea for Nintendo to pick up Beyond Good and Evil 2. The point is to rebuild bridges and forge new partnerships. That's what made picking up Bayonetta 2 worthwhile besides getting a really solid game. This is the kind of goodwill that is worth investing in because it targets a passion project. It isn't just a paycheck for the developers; it's something they really believe in. You can't just look at Bayonetta 2's sales for the whole picture. For example, when these creators want to pitch a new project, there's a greater chance of looking Nintendo's way first. Or in Platinum Games' case, Nintendo invited them to revive Star Fox.

Again, Nintendo needs content. And collecting exclusives from proven talent is a good place to get it. Nintendo still needs the multi platform tent pole games like Madden and Call of Duty, but it also needs more than first party exclusives in order to have an attractive and well rounded platform.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 03, 2016, 03:26:12 PM
BG&E2 is a good game to get.  You will sell some systems with it as an exclusive, though not that many.  Getting a good game exclusive to your console is never a bad thing (unless you paid so much money for it that you can't possibly make it back) but I don't want Nintendo to feel that a token effort like that is enough.  Bayo 2 was a great pick up but that's like the whole extent of Nintendo attracting third party support on the Wii U.  They funded this one game and that's better than nothing but it means jack **** in comparison to all the third party games the Wii U didn't get and one game is way too few to have any real effect on sales.  If Nintendo wants to try to secure some exclusives they have to do that a lot and also have a platform that is inviting for third parties and so that Nintendo will just attract some general decent support without having to go specifically set it up.

Bayo 2 just sets a bad precedence of Nintendo getting a cool third party exclusive but doing literally nothing else.  I don't want to see that kind of token effort again so while BG&E 2 would be cool I'll get excited if we see Nintendo funding the development of MANY games like this.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Soren on March 03, 2016, 03:26:30 PM
Nintendo picking up the tab for cult/niche franchises sounds like a better way to build trust with the likes of Ubisoft/EA/Activision than outright moneyhatting third party ports of multiplatform games.

They funded this one game and that's better than nothing but it means jack **** in comparison to all the third party games the Wii U didn't get and one game is way too few to have any real effect on sales.

They also rescued Devil's Third from oblivion (regardless of whether or not it was worth rescuing) and funded an exclusive Lego game and another exclusive Platinum game with a new IP. They also had an exclusivity agreement with Sega which yielded Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom(again, not talking about quality). It wasn't just one game.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 03, 2016, 04:58:02 PM
Nintendo picking up the tab for cult/niche franchises sounds like a better way to build trust with the likes of Ubisoft/EA/Activision than outright moneyhatting third party ports of multiplatform games.

They funded this one game and that's better than nothing but it means jack **** in comparison to all the third party games the Wii U didn't get and one game is way too few to have any real effect on sales.

They also rescued Devil's Third from oblivion (regardless of whether or not it was worth rescuing) and funded an exclusive Lego game and another exclusive Platinum game with a new IP. They also had an exclusivity agreement with Sega which yielded Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom(again, not talking about quality). It wasn't just one game.

I don't really think of Wonderful 101 as a third party game.  Who owns the IP for that, Platinum or Nintendo?  If Nintendo does then it's a first party game.  Okay so let's include it and we get six games and three of them suck.  This is still not a good strategy.  Still seems like the mistaken idea that a few token titles makes up for real support.

Yeah if something like this butters up Ubisoft and ensures Nintendo gets all of Ubisoft's multiplatform games as well that's fantastic but if it's just Nintendo getting this one game then it's borderline useless in the grand scheme of things.  And Nintendo's track record since the Cube with such deals usually has resulted in only getting those token games.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Mop it up on March 03, 2016, 09:41:12 PM
They also rescued Devil's Third from oblivion (regardless of whether or not it was worth rescuing) and funded an exclusive Lego game and another exclusive Platinum game with a new IP. They also had an exclusivity agreement with Sega which yielded Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom(again, not talking about quality). It wasn't just one game.
There was also Fatal Frame V, though it still has the questionable quality...
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 03, 2016, 11:09:03 PM
Damn, I still need to get Fatal Frame. I actually liked the demo.

So we're all in agreement, then? Bayonetta 2 was a bad exclusive?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 03, 2016, 11:15:28 PM
The problem is getting exclusive titles that are niche games or unknown titles or even new IPs are not the solution.  If you want to make an impact you need to get the known franchises and desired franchises on your system.  It doesn't even matter if you get timed exclusivity or none...you just need them. 

Bayonetta 2 was a good exclusive that if it came out when the Wii U launched would have helped.  Nintendo actually needs to radically change how they consider doing releases.  They are too slow to release their games and that can be a problem in the market.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Shaymin on March 04, 2016, 12:04:44 AM
Damn, I still need to get Fatal Frame. I actually liked the demo.

So we're all in agreement, then? Bayonetta 2 was a bad exclusive?

Ask your mum.

I don't think BG&E2 would garner the same heat that Bayo got - maybe half as much. Given this game's uh, checkered history I think anyone would be happy to play it. (Basically Nintendo would be pulling a Devil's Third except the game isn't a flaming s**tpile.)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: azeke on March 04, 2016, 12:14:07 AM
So, i've been reading some people who are disappointed about their supposedly favourite series getting sequel on NX.

All the while other long-awaited sequel was announced just last year as exclusive to two platforms that previous games were never on while BG&E actually was on Nintendo).

And the reception was -- thunderous standing ovation.

And their Kickstarter (the gall of these people -- claiming they are reviving the series -- and then immediately take people's own money to do it!) was the most successful kickstarter to date.

(http://awesomegifs.com/wp-content/uploads/i-feel-like-im-taking-crazy-pills.gif)

Do these people have zero self-awareness?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 04, 2016, 12:28:49 AM
What sequel are we talking about here? I gotta keep up with Kickstarter campaigns.

You know, I haven't played Bayonetta 2 (or the first, for that matter) yet, so I can't comment on the game. The 30 dollar pricepoint is really tempting though.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on March 04, 2016, 06:04:02 AM
What sequel are we talking about here? I gotta keep up with Kickstarter campaigns.
I'm thinking Shenmue III.

My understanding of this revival is that Sega freely gave Yu Suzuki the rights to use the IP, but it was on Suzuki and Ys Net to secure funding for the game because Sega had no interest in developing the game itself (clearly, since it has been dormant since 2002). Sony is helping fund marketing while the Kickstarter was for actual development.

I'm not sure azeke's comparison is fair since the same people praising Shenmue III aren't necessarily the same people disappointed in the NX-exclusive Beyond Good and Evil 2 rumor. Additionally, Shenmue III will be released on the most popular console as well as PC, reaching a much larger audience than a yet-to-be-released successor to Nintendo's least popular home console. Admittedly, there is likely some anti-Nintendo bias because people don't want to buy an entire console for one game though that disregards other titles that would be available on it.
Quote
You know, I haven't played Bayonetta 2 (or the first, for that matter) yet, so I can't comment on the game. The 30 dollar pricepoint is really tempting though.
But you won't get the port of the original... Nooooooooooo...
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Enner on March 04, 2016, 06:05:19 AM
What sequel are we talking about here? I gotta keep up with Kickstarter campaigns.

Shenmue 3.

Do these people have zero self-awareness?

They do not. Also, they don't have to when Sony is pretty much giving them what they want.
Even less than my expectations for the NX, I don't see Nintendo's PR and marketing getting better in the near future.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 04, 2016, 02:12:22 PM
So we're all in agreement, then? Bayonetta 2 was a bad exclusive?

Nah, good exclusive.  :)  But just a drop in the bucket in regards to securing the kind of third party support that's expected of any decent console.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Louieturkey on March 04, 2016, 08:02:34 PM
They also rescued Devil's Third from oblivion (regardless of whether or not it was worth rescuing) and funded an exclusive Lego game and another exclusive Platinum game with a new IP. They also had an exclusivity agreement with Sega which yielded Sonic Lost World and Sonic Boom(again, not talking about quality). It wasn't just one game.
There was also Fatal Frame V, though it still has the questionable quality...
According to Ian that doesn't count because Nintendo co-owns the IP.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Soren on March 04, 2016, 08:28:47 PM
I don't really think of Wonderful 101 as a third party game.  Who owns the IP for that, Platinum or Nintendo?  If Nintendo does then it's a first party game. 


Just for clarity: while Nintendo owns the IP, the original idea came from Platinum president Tatsuya Minami and the game was being developed by Platinum for the Wii before the partnership with Nintendo was announced.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 06, 2016, 11:16:58 AM
Can someone do me a HUGE favor and catch me up on everything NX up to this point?

A single post that tells and separates the facts of what we "know", from the rumors and speculations that we discuss.

If this is potentially coming out at the end of the year, I'd like to know what it is.

thanks.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Soren on March 06, 2016, 12:35:04 PM
Here's all we know for sure.

- Iwata described the project, code-named “NX” as “a dedicated game platform with a brand-new concept.” More details were promised for 2016. Then Miyamoto talked about creating games that run on both handhelds and consoles.
- Squeenix is thinking about porting games to it.
- There was a market survey made by British firm GfK.
- Dev kits are out in the wild, but not everyone has one.
- Nintendo has registered patents that may or may not have anything to do with NX.
- There's a chance it will be region-free.
- It's not the next version of Wii or Wii U
- Something about potato chips.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 06, 2016, 04:51:37 PM
That's most of the non-speculation info.

The only other bit I can think of:

-Statements from/reporting on a certain chip maker and Foxconn indicate an SKU being released in late 2016.

Oh, and there is apparently a generational-curse level NDA in place that has successfully prevented any substantive leaks from occurring thus far.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 06, 2016, 07:57:32 PM
so other than knowing that its coming, some are working on it, and it might appear/launch this year. we don't  know anything about it.

I thought NX itself was the software platform, much Like AndroidOS/iOS that is used to develop cross platform on whatever Nintendo's next hardware formats may be?

is that inaccurate?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 06, 2016, 08:12:59 PM
That's a distinct possibility, heavily rumored, but we don't know enough to have a clear picture as to how accurate it is.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 06, 2016, 08:27:17 PM
Man... wish I still had a connect to someone in the industry that knew something. Not that i got anything out of the last person I knew other than a backstage pass to E3 that one time.

So in summary, what are the most credible rumors up to this point?
I honestly have barely read anything videogame related in a very long time, so I have no idea what's going on with the industry right now, other than Nintendo isn't doing too hot and is about to launch something new soon.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 06, 2016, 09:59:00 PM
Don't believe the hype.

Sony is in their last throes, Nintendo decided to double down on Wii U and 3DS.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on March 06, 2016, 11:18:46 PM
So in summary, what are the most credible rumors up to this point?
1. NX will release this year with a port of Zelda Wii U at or near launch.

2. Square Enix is porting both Final Fantasy VII Remake an Final Fantasy XV.

3. Nintendo is apparently meeting with EA this month regarding support for NX. EA wants some assurance from Nintendo that there's a market for sports title on NX. This includes advertising during sports games, getting apps for the major sports leagues, and hardware bundles including EA titles. That last bit sounds unreasonable except when you consider that Nintendo has packaged third party software in console bundles, and Microsoft and Sony regularly offer EA bundles.

4. Panasonic wasn't on the list of NX suppliers late last year suggesting that NX doesn't have an optical disc drive. I can't remember if this was leaked or rumored. This also doesn't mean there won't be an optical disc drive. The supplier list could be for the handheld only.

Macronix was on the supplier list. The company has provided Nintendo with ROM chips for DS and 3DS (not sure if it had dealings with Nintendo before DS). Macronix confirmed its involvement with NX in late January.

AMD has been hinting involvement with NX as far back as December 2014 though without mentioning Nintendo nor NX by name. It has been dropping vague hints here and there, most recently at an investor call in January. Yeah, this is news, not particularly interesting news considering everyone and their mother expected AMD to be involved again. Nintendo and AMD (or teams/companies absorbed by AMD) have been partners for over 20 years.

Moon Studios (developer of Ori and The Blind Forest) recently expressed frustration with Nintendo's secrecy. The dude was pretty salty. Justified? Maybe. The only thing confirmed there is that Moon Studios does not have development kits though it has talked to Nintendo about NX.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: BlackNMild2k1 on March 07, 2016, 02:49:24 AM
 I don't know who Moon Studios is, or the games they made, but they are salty why?

Because they want to know more but aren't in the circle of devs Nintendo deems worthy of early attention? Or because they want to bring a game and can't talk about it? combination of both?

and the FFVII remake rumor for Big N is still alive huh?

also, do we know anything about the new Zelda for Wii U?
I think I remember hearing something about it being open world style play, w/ large areas like Xenoblade/WoW or something.   
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on March 07, 2016, 06:14:34 AM
Because they want to know more but aren't in the circle of devs Nintendo deems worthy of early attention? Or because they want to bring a game and can't talk about it? combination of both?
Not sure. Maybe closer to the former though. Thomas Mahler addressed frustration with getting development kits from all hardware manufacturers but focused primarily on Nintendo likely because Nintendo is so historically awful at getting development kits out in a timely manner. Based on some rudimentary googling, Moon Studios has one game to its name which was acquired by Microsoft. That said, if the developer wanted to support NX, it'd have to make a brand new game. Moon Studios is an independent studio so I can see why it would want development kits sooner rather than later to get a new game out as soon as possible. It doesn't have the cash reserves to be sitting idly waiting for development kits to be sent out.
Quote
and the FFVII remake rumor for Big N is still alive huh?
For now. The person who leaked this (SuperMetalDave64 on The YouTube, trevelyan9999 on Neogaf) wasn't as sure about the authenticity of this rumor thus flat-out labeled it a rumor, not a leak. He stated the source for this rumor in particular was right about other things without giving specifics. Make of that what you will. For what it's worth, SMD64 had a different source verified by Neogaf mods and his leaks were right on the money regarding the new Pokemon game that was just announced. The Pokemon/Nintendo release schedule source was good though he did an arguably poor job of protecting the source's identity (no name, mentioned the source worked for Nintendo's marketing department).

He also didn't cross verify it without another source. He seems pretty new to this. Everyone has to start somewhere. Emily Rogers admittedly slept with a source to get some info. I'd say SMD64 has a long way to go. Not that he necessarily has to sleep with a dude to score some juicy info. Rather, he has to build up his credibility in order to be taken more seriously. I mean, if he wants to sleep with a dude for leaks, that's on him. Literally.

Ultimately, the verdict is out on Final Fantasy VII Remake/XV, and we probably won't know until E3 at the earliest because Nintendo would undoubtably push these games as part of its presentation. The thing to take away from this is that SuperMetalDave64 already leaked good info and he trusted this other source enough to post the Final Fantasy rumor. I'm not especially excited about either game, but they would be big for Nintendo.
Quote
also, do we know anything about the new Zelda for Wii U?
I think I remember hearing something about it being open world style play, w/ large areas like Xenoblade/WoW or something.
Very little. The horse will automatically avoid obstacles like trees. Link can vault off the horse and enter a bullet-time-esque slow down to shoot arrows. Link can use the sail cloth to glide off high platforms. You can place markers on the map and a light will appear there, making it easier to find. That's about it. There has been talk of providing a female Link option to play as (not Linkle from Hyrule Warriors) though Aonuma may have just been musing about that.

Another rumor: Namco Bandai is porting Super Smash Bros (most likely the Wii U version) to NX. It also has other games in the works. Not surprising considering Nintendo has collaborated with Namco Bandai a lot on Wii U. I'm not entirely sure about the source of this rumor, but I really wouldn't be surprised if this ended up being true. Nintendo wants in on the competitive gaming scene and a new Super Smash Bros. wouldn't be ready for a few years. Porting the game that just had its last set of DLC last month makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on March 07, 2016, 10:39:52 AM
Dragon Quest X and XI were also pretty much confirmed during a Square Enix event but they had to backpedal and now say that they're thinking about it.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (Your guess is as good as mine EDITION)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on March 17, 2016, 10:13:09 PM
Magnetic Resistive DPAD and Buttons

Today is February 1st 2016 (I post from the future) I'm ready to make my NX prediction. The NX Go will have Magnetic Resistive DPAD and Buttons. I'm not even sure what that means.


(http://i.imgur.com/pAusBD4.jpg?1)


What say you family, Real or Fake? (From reddit, to Destructoid)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 17, 2016, 10:39:53 PM
Hmmm.

Do not like those touchscreen buttons. Joysticks look really, really weird.

It looks real to me. It also looks like it's a terrible idea that nobody wanted. The joystick appearance makes it seem semi-portable, but that shape... I don't get it. It looks less comfortable to me than the Gamepad, which could be saying something. But WHY touchscreen buttons? And what's the purpose of the weird sized screen? It looks like it will narrow the ability to see things... it looks worse than the gamepad screen.


I just don't get it. But then again, I won't be buying the console, so I guess I'm not their target audience.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Enner on March 17, 2016, 10:57:31 PM
If it's cheap enough to mass produce, I'll be inclined to believe it.

Without that knowledge, this looks too close to that patent filing to be anything but rumor mill baiting.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Dasmos on March 17, 2016, 11:01:05 PM
Wow, that thing looks ridiculous.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Stratos on March 17, 2016, 11:10:41 PM
I call it fake. I don't want touch screen buttons. This could have easily been photoshopped.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Shaymin on March 17, 2016, 11:22:34 PM
Fake spectrum:

Pro wrestling
Soap operas
Figure skating
Boxing
That thing
2006 NBA Finals
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 17, 2016, 11:45:54 PM
What if it IS real, and the note is a hint?

"The Nintendo WOU"?!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 18, 2016, 12:02:26 AM
This is too much like the other leaked screen that I think was from a patient idea.  One of the things that is important to take from patients is the shape and design is never what they present.  They don't want others stealing their ideas and designs. 

This is super fake.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 18, 2016, 12:05:40 AM
Sorry for the double post.  Looking at the controller again, you can tell it is a fake, because the camera should be on the top of the controller, but look at the buttons.  If that is the case then the button labels are upside down.  Also if that is the case, then their are no buttons on the side of the controller that normally has the action buttons.  This isn't just a fake it is a poor one.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on March 18, 2016, 03:44:33 AM
I can't make heads or tail of what I'm looking at here. Is it covered in tinfoil?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Lucario on March 18, 2016, 03:47:04 AM
Looks stupid
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on March 18, 2016, 08:29:03 AM
According to the original story, the picture was ran through a program that test for inconsistencies often associated with Photoshop and other altering programs and while the lighting is suspect, they claim the photo is legit.




I think its real. I don't think it's the final product but I believe this is a true component of the NX. Plus, when have I ever been wrong about this kinda thing.? (hey, don't answer that. That time doesn't count either it was all Rick Powers fault!)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: ShyGuy on March 18, 2016, 10:01:37 AM
I think the picture is real, but somebody made a fake piece of hardware and took a picture.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 18, 2016, 12:27:55 PM
It also looks like it's a terrible idea that nobody wanted

Unfortunately to me this is the best argument that Nintendo is doing this.  While I hope the NX can be Nintendo's comeback console they have shown pretty much zero sign of learning, well, anything from their mistakes over the last few years so I expect the NX to be even more out-of-touch and insane than the Wii U.  I don't really feel excitement for the NX, it's more cautious "please don't **** this up" hope.

Touchscreen buttons would be borderline useless for any game with any real reflex oriented gameplay as you need tactile feedback to play them.  Think of what sort of games work on touchscreens and which ones don't and the same thing applies for touchscreen buttons on controller.  Turn based games and visual novels and stuff like that will work fine.  Any platformer or FPS or fighting game or shmup will control like complete ****.  The problem is that these days Nintendo designs controllers as a marketing gimmick first, practical tool to control the game second.  I can totally see them completely fucking up the controller in a vain attempt to recapture the Wii audience they lost.

They go with this controller and the NX is finished before it comes out.  The casuals will never return and touchscreen buttons will **** up the controls so bad that dedicated gamers will stay away.  Such a controller would restrict a console to mobile level game quality.  No sane person will ever buy a dedicated videogame system for that sort of ****.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: MagicCow64 on March 18, 2016, 12:45:05 PM
Well, according the the "leaker" the touch screen would also have advanced haptics to help solve the tactile feedback problem.

But after scanning the last few pages of the NeoGaf thread on this leak, they've come up with the exact frame from a UE4 demo that appears to have been cropped for the NX controller image, in a way that wouldn't make sense if it was running live, so looking very likely to be fake.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Soren on March 18, 2016, 01:37:40 PM
Sony might be getting ready to throw a big curveball soon.

http://kotaku.com/sources-sony-is-working-on-a-ps4-5-1765723053 (http://kotaku.com/sources-sony-is-working-on-a-ps4-5-1765723053)

IB4 NX is already obsolete...


EDIT: Patrick Klepek also just said Microsoft might be working on something similar. Nintendo could very well be swimming against the tide once again.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 18, 2016, 02:03:43 PM
PS4.5?  Oh great we're moving into cellphone territory where our consoles get replaced after only a few years with minor updates?  Thanks a lot to every drooling idiot that rushed out and bought a DSi or New 3DS and setting the trend.  Of course we have no idea that this idea will even take off, particularly when consoles cost a lot more than handhelds.

Nintendo is pretty bad at guessing where things are going to go so they actually would benefit a lot from launching last and seeing what everyone else does but with the Wii U being such a poor seller they don't have that flexibility.  Interestingly enough the Wii U is the first time since the NES (which doesn't really count since there essentially was no console market when it launched) that Nintendo wasn't one of the last ones to launch.  The SNES, N64, Gamecube and Wii all came out after a least one major competitor had already released their console so Nintendo knew what they were up against.  The Wii U was really the first time they had to guess... and they really flubbed it bad.

With the PS4 I was thinking more that the VR would be the X factor.  If that takes off what does Nintendo have to combat it?  Have they taken into account the possibility that with all these VR products due to come out soon that that may shift the gaming industry significantly?  Is Nintendo at least factoring in the possibility that it might be something they need to at least have the "hooks" in place to implement on the NX?  The whole thing might bomb but if it doesn't then I'm going to assume VR will be an expected feature, like how Sony and MS felt compelled to have their own motion controls to combat the Wii.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 18, 2016, 03:22:13 PM
God, I hope this isn't the future for consoles. I don't want to have to buy the Wii U 7 for a chance to play the latest games...
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Luigi Dude on March 18, 2016, 03:29:32 PM
With the PS4 I was thinking more that the VR would be the X factor.  If that takes off what does Nintendo have to combat it?  Have they taken into account the possibility that with all these VR products due to come out soon that that may shift the gaming industry significantly?  Is Nintendo at least factoring in the possibility that it might be something they need to at least have the "hooks" in place to implement on the NX?  The whole thing might bomb but if it doesn't then I'm going to assume VR will be an expected feature, like how Sony and MS felt compelled to have their own motion controls to combat the Wii.

The price of PSVR has already guaranteed that thing to be DOA.  VR still has a ways to go before it's ready for mass consumption because right now the price is just too damn high for anyone that isn't a hardcore tech head to take seriously.  The motion controls on the Wii took off because it only cost $250 to get a system, that came with said motion controller, and a killer app like Wii Sports all in one.  Right now, VR of any kind has no sort of value with system, controller and a killer app for that kind of mass market price.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on March 18, 2016, 03:55:50 PM
This PS4.k rumor makes me think that the NX is more of an OS than and actual console. With that "controller " also being the handheld.  Long as that controller is at least 6" wide I'm good!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: alegoicoe on March 18, 2016, 04:58:09 PM
This PS4.k rumor makes me think that the NX is more of an OS than and actual console. With that "controller " also being the handheld.  Long as that controller is at least 6" wide I'm good!


I rather have the NX be a service rather than a console. Consoles are basically becoming PCs anyways, why would i want a console thant i have to upgrade in orde to get the full experience, for that i have my pc with an nvidia 980ti.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 18, 2016, 05:38:30 PM
This PS4.k rumor makes me think that the NX is more of an OS than and actual console. With that "controller " also being the handheld.  Long as that controller is at least 6" wide I'm good!


I rather have the NX be a service rather than a console. Consoles are basically becoming PCs anyways, why would i want a console thant i have to upgrade in orde to get the full experience, for that i have my pc with an nvidia 980ti.

For home use phones and tablets are replacing PCs so the average consumer's not going to have a device to use the service on... unless it also supports tablets and phones but then they have to severely compromise the specs to meet such a lowest common denominator.  A console today is basically a pre-built gaming PC at a mass market price point.  That's what the average consumer is going to be interested in.  If the NX was a service Nintendo would still need some sort of base hardware SKU for those that don't want to figure out the hardware requirement themselves.

For obvious reasons I feel the console industry wants us to buy new consoles with less significant hardware updates more frequently.  I don't like it, I won't support it, but my lone "vote" will mean jack ****.  In a world where F2P scams and microtransactions are a sustainable business model I can see this approach being successful enough to become the new standard.  The industry has clearly shifted over the last ten years to one that seeks to exploit their customers.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 18, 2016, 05:45:23 PM
Ehhh, I think the industry will find quite a bit of resistance if they attempt to make us buy 400 consoles every 3 years. Then again, that's what some mad PC users do, sooooo...
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on March 18, 2016, 06:01:55 PM

For home use phones and tablets are replacing PCs so the average consumer's not going to have a device to use the service on... unless it also supports tablets and phones but then they have to severely compromise the specs to meet such a lowest common denominator.  A console today is basically a pre-built gaming PC at a mass market price point.  That's what the average consumer is going to be interested in.  If the NX was a service Nintendo would still need some sort of base hardware SKU for those that don't want to figure out the hardware requirement themselves.

For obvious reasons I feel the console industry wants us to buy new consoles with less significant hardware updates more frequently.  I don't like it, I won't support it, but my lone "vote" will mean jack ****.  In a world where F2P scams and microtransactions are a sustainable business model I can see this approach being successful enough to become the new standard.  The industry has clearly shifted over the last ten years to one that seeks to exploit their customers.




When I say NX is an OS, I'm talking both hardware and software. What I've always said is there will be:


A base handheld (that picture is the prototype)
A base console
A Rebranded Wii U Powered by NX
A Steam-like app that is has  both iOS and Android base standards.




___________________________________________________________




That device, if legit gives the best of both worlds. Physical Buttons, click wheel buttons and force feedback touch. That would allow for scalable cross-development.


edit: example of how it might work from NeoGaf.


(http://i.imgur.com/2AlzoTS.jpg)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: alegoicoe on March 18, 2016, 06:28:54 PM
This PS4.k rumor makes me think that the NX is more of an OS than and actual console. With that "controller " also being the handheld.  Long as that controller is at least 6" wide I'm good!


I rather have the NX be a service rather than a console. Consoles are basically becoming PCs anyways, why would i want a console thant i have to upgrade in orde to get the full experience, for that i have my pc with an nvidia 980ti.

For home use phones and tablets are replacing PCs so the average consumer's not going to have a device to use the service on... unless it also supports tablets and phones but then they have to severely compromise the specs to meet such a lowest common denominator.  A console today is basically a pre-built gaming PC at a mass market price point.  That's what the average consumer is going to be interested in.  If the NX was a service Nintendo would still need some sort of base hardware SKU for those that don't want to figure out the hardware requirement themselves.

For obvious reasons I feel the console industry wants us to buy new consoles with less significant hardware updates more frequently.  I don't like it, I won't support it, but my lone "vote" will mean jack ****.  In a world where F2P scams and microtransactions are a sustainable business model I can see this approach being successful enough to become the new standard.  The industry has clearly shifted over the last ten years to one that seeks to exploit their customers.


exaclty my point, consoles are becoming obsolete ot glorified steamboxes
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 18, 2016, 06:29:37 PM
All right, now controller buttons and my damn hands are in the way of the screen!  What I've always wanted!

Seriously in that mock up your missile count is right under where your hand would be.  What is the damn selling point in having the screen in all sorts of nooks and crannies you actually can't see?  How is having joysticks interfering with the display a good thing?  Why would anybody WANT this?  A more logical mockup would be to have the game in the center of the controller and the only screen usage in the sides is for the controls.

Though why are touchscreen buttons an idea that has gained any ground?  Phones have that to make up for inadequate controller options.  Controllers these days have two analog sticks, a d-pad, 4 face buttons, 4 triggers and at least two "admin" buttons.  Do you need more than that?  Because if a game doesn't need more than that then you don't have to have a display that changes the buttons.  I suppose buttons could disappear but are you so inept at games that extra buttons that do nothing confuse you?  Do you need the button to clearly identify what it does like an overlay?  Who needs this other than the most helpless casual gamers?  The whole idea seems like something that sounds cool in theory before you give it five minutes of thought and realize the "need" for it is pretty much non-existent.  In that Metroid mock up the touchscreen buttons literally recreate what every standard controller has so what is the point?!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Caterkiller on March 18, 2016, 07:02:11 PM
The NX platform already sounded like it was going to adopt the way of the upgrades like phones. Nintendo isn't being left behind on that front I'm sure. With all that talk from Iwata about having to always restart from zero and such the message was clear to me. Not really worried and honestly I welcome this future. Give us 10 years of the same device, maybe upgrade it a bit every 3 years like a PC or something, but it still plays all the games only if you've got all the new gadgets the newer games run best.

Anyway about that controller, Rosti on Neogaf has more or less said that thing is legit. Now he doesn't know if it's a final product or just some dev kit prototype. I know people are picking it apart and if we got something like that it would take a lot of convincing for me. Hopefully the final product has handles and physical buttons to go along with all the touch buttons.

I will say that the mock up posted above does look kind of cool and modern. Especially when compared to the U Pad, that really gave off clunky Game Gear vibes. But I just can't imagine getting that oval shape and that be it.

Then when it comes to actually blocking part of the screen I feel like games will be designed with that in mind. You get a lot of extra view around your fingers but it's something that would otherwise never be there without such a screen. I suppose I imagine playing a game any normal old way, be it on the 3DS or Wii U, slap that on the middle of this controller and then expand that same image around your fingers to see what would have originally been unseeable. I guess like when you take an old movie and it's remastered to include Wide Screen?

I'm cautiously optimistic but if this thing releases without physical buttons or an equivalent that feels just as good and is just as responsive, I have a feeling a ton of people will reject the idea more so than the Wii U Gamepad.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 18, 2016, 07:28:33 PM
The NX platform already sounded like it was going to adopt the way of the upgrades like phones. Nintendo isn't being left behind on that front I'm sure. With all that talk from Iwata about having to always restart from zero and such the message was clear to me. Not really worried and honestly I welcome this future. Give us 10 years of the same device, maybe upgrade it a bit every 3 years like a PC or something, but it still plays all the games only if you've got all the new gadgets the newer games run best.

To me that's not a 10 year device, it's a 3 year device so we're worse off then we were with 5 year cycles.  To me the whole selling point of a console is you buy it once and everything works the same on it for the entire lifecycle of it.  I've always found little add-ons like the Sega CD or N64 expansion pack annoying since they go against this concept.  Considering how long the PS3 and Xbox 360 lasted before getting replaced I would argue that now is the silliest time in videogame history thus far to adapt such a model.  The obvious benefits from improved hardware is plateauing.  The jump from PS3 to PS4 was way less noticeable than that from PS1 to PS2 or NES to SNES.  The last generation lasted longer because there was less need for new hardware than in prior generations.  So why do we need any sort of upgrade after only three years?  In the 90's if you had a hardware gap of only three years you would notice it.  These days you wouldn't.  We're now at the point where we can stretch a generation longer.  It is some real snake oil nonsense for a console maker to convince you that you need shorter gaps between hardware purchases.

One thing I can see the model working is for handhelds since portable tech is always behind console tech.  If they want to adopt this approach for a handheld model where every so many years it gets a little closer to matching the standard console hardware, I can live with that.  Then one can get the one-time-purchase console like always and let the handheld gamers deal with the ticky tacky updates which they're already willing to deal with with phones and stuff like the DSi and New 3DS.  People are used to buying handheld tech on a regular basis but not so much with consoles.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Caterkiller on March 18, 2016, 09:04:05 PM
I actually think this potential upgrade future will be a little more elegant than what the DSi and n3DS were doing. I know you don't like the add ons like the N64 expansion pack but I am all for it. I would much rather have our base systems longer than replacing them every 5 years or so with little increases in power throughout the years.

I'm one of those who was pushed into a cell phone kicking and screaming and don't get me started on upgrading. Every 2 years to upgrade an entirely new phone really burns me up. I have no idea how or why people do it annually. So I can get where you are coming from but I figure if we aren't completely replacing an entire device like Nintendo's handhelds it's not such a big deal.

I'm talking mostly out of ignorance and to an extreme but isn't this PC gaming life in a nut shell? If my understanding is correct many games still run on older hardware, they just run better on the high end stuff.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: sudoshuff on March 18, 2016, 09:05:27 PM
edit: example of how it might work from NeoGaf.


(http://i.imgur.com/2AlzoTS.jpg)


I quite like the way this looks!  I'm completely on board with the idea if it has physical buttons.  It's basically a gamepad 2.0, expect much more ergonomic and manageable.  Plus, if the persistent rumors are true, I would love to throw that thing in my bag and continue to play NX games on the go with it.


I do seem to be in the minority of optimists on this thread, though...
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: sudoshuff on March 18, 2016, 09:14:36 PM
I'm one of those who was pushed into a cell phone kicking and screaming and don't get me started on upgrading. Every 2 years to upgrade an entirely new phone really burns me up. I have no idea how or why people do it annually.


1.They break them.
2. They see their friends with the fancy new version (I mean who wouldn't love it if their photos were actually little videos and were unlocked with a fingerprint scan ;)
3. They get suckered in to it with clever hidden subsidies, monthly payments making the new version "free" (I'm lookin' at you AT&T NEXT plan!).


None of the three reasons above seem like they would apply to the NX for the following reasons: 
1. Nintendo products are designed to be practically unbreakable and handled by small children. 
2. Nintendo has a chance of going viral again with a popular new device, but it won't feel like a fundamental part of your person like a cell phone does.
3. Nintendo would just charge you for the full price of the device up front.


I think NX will be designed to be upgradeable, but I can't see them matching the cell phone makers by coming out with a new version every year.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Mop it up on March 20, 2016, 03:50:26 PM
It looks fake to me, and the only thing which makes it seem plausible is how stupid it is.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 20, 2016, 08:08:19 PM
It looks fake to me, and the only thing which makes it seem plausible is how stupid it is.

Ha.  This is the quote of the day. 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: supermario2k on March 21, 2016, 11:45:36 AM
I am not sure Nintendo would be smart to release a controller that would absolutely not work with VR and not be gearing up for VR when that is where the industry appears to be heading. Sure this new round is going to be expensive and appeal mainly to enthusiasts but at least it is affordable this time compared to the 90's. Also it will help launch the next round which will be when it really kicks off. I see parallels to when CD technology was starting. The 90's VR, i.e. Virtual Boy, arcade machines, PC headsets, is similar to the Sega CD and all those other add-ons, the tech was there but not quite ready for market. I see this round as PS1 and Saturn, the tech is there and the industry and market are finally ready.


If Sony dominates with VR and Nintendo sits on the sidelines pushing touch screens then it will be worse than N64 ditching CD's for the C-stick. Ever since playing Super Mario 64 for the first time VR is what I always wanted to come next and with Wii motion controls I thought yes Nintendo is finally pushing for real VR and then they backtracked on motion controls and now think touch is the future I hope they get this figured out soon. That controller would be sweat for a handheld but not a console if there is any hope for it to support VR.

Bring on the NX news already Nintendo what are you all waiting for it's close to the end of March already.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 21, 2016, 12:23:01 PM
Nintendo just needs to make it so that the NX is adaptable enough that if VR catches on they can implement it later on.  There was no SNES CD but they were working on the idea with Sony and later Phillips but didn't do it.  But the SNES itself has a port where some hypothetical CD attachment could have attached.  They didn't design the thing so restrictive that a CD add-on could not have been done without replacing the whole console.  VR is not certainly going to catch on this gen but it is being attempted so Nintendo needs to not handcuff the NX so that it is completely incapable of handling VR.  A good design for a console is to be able to have some adaptability to the market.

One thing about this controller mock up is that it is a very similar idea to the Wii U Gamepad.  That concept flopped.  What sense is there in repeating it?  I figure the best chance the NX has is for it to remind people of the Wii U as little as possible.  Doubling down on the screen controller concept that was soundly rejected and the obvious cost issues that will come with it is pretty damn stupid.  So what trade off on important stuff will the NX have to accommodate the return of the unpopular screen controller idea?  Or will the price just be stupidly high for a console that will have to fight tooth and nail for anyone to even give it the time of day?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on March 21, 2016, 02:46:47 PM
The console flopped, but the controller idea could still be viable, if the games can be there.  Multiple gamepads would be one of the main ways you get the idea going.  Moving on from Wiimotes is another.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 21, 2016, 04:34:01 PM
The console flopped, but the controller idea could still be viable, if the games can be there.  Multiple gamepads would be one of the main ways you get the idea going.  Moving on from Wiimotes is another.

Multiple Gamepads sounds expensive.  Plus this screen-in-the-controller idea was also promoted as this big ace in the hole for the Gamecube and no fucks were given then either.

I think it is very telling that after a generation of motion controls and guitar controllers, the PS4 won this generation almost instantly by simply being a conventional videogame console.  Sony didn't ask anyone to compromise hardware or pay extra for controller gimmicks, while Nintendo and Microsoft did, and the PS4 cleaned their clocks.  I can't think of a more clear rejection of such concepts as that.

The time for bullshit is over.  No gimmicks, no distractions, no tradeoffs, no "please understand"s.  Nintendo needs to make a great console with great games that meets the expectations of video game customers in 2016 and the years to come.

Plus Nintendo failed to deliver on all their promises of innovation and such for both the Wiimote and Gamepad.  Both ideas end up being pretty half-baked and generally restricted to glorified tech demos, regardless of how many Wii's were sold.  So you don't think that consumers aren't going to remember that?  That after a generation of the Gamepad failing to meet it's potential that they're going to think that THIS time it will be different and the truly brilliant and innovative games are going to come?  No, they're going to quite reasonably assume a repeat of prior generations.  If Nintendo had such awesome ideas for a screen in a controller they would have done them on the Wii U.  Why would they sit on great ideas while the Wii U struggled?  Why would they launch the console with a glorified tech demo and a 2D platformer if they had something better in mind?  And if they just needed time to develop that great idea it would have shown up by now.

Something that was just a great console with no bullshit would be quite out-of-character for Nintendo.  That would suggest Nintendo has changed and that is what will get people interested in them again.  The same old Nintendo is the Wii U and no one bought it.  They're not going to buy anything that suggests a repeat of recent Nintendo generations and doubling down on the screen controller idea would be doing exactly that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on March 22, 2016, 08:00:25 AM
Multiple Gamepads sounds expensive.  Plus this screen-in-the-controller idea was also promoted as this big ace in the hole for the Gamecube and no fucks were given then either.
A Dual Shock 4 is $59.99 MSRP. Expensive controllers has been the cross gamers bore if they've wanted to play multiplayer.

And GameCube-Gameboy Advance connectivity is not comparable to the GamePad beyond "there's a screen." The latter provides far more freedom from a gameplay and development standpoint. It's really weird that you keep bringing this up. It's especially convenient that you ignore all the reasons why the connectivity didn't catch on because you can't simply reduce it to people giving no fucks about a screen on a controller.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 22, 2016, 08:13:20 AM
Of all the reasons the Wii U failed, I think the use of the GamePad is pretty far down the list. Releasing hardware more in line with the standards of the industry, with better support for developers, that wouldn't be obsolete just a year later would have gone a long way toward success, whereas I doubt dropping the GamePad would have helped much.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on March 22, 2016, 10:28:41 AM
Sony didn't make the Move a major part of the PS4, but it's part of their VR thing, right?  I'd say Sony is still doing the gimmicks, but they're just doing it halfway, as always.  And that VR is expensive.

I think the GC/GBA thing didn't work because not as many people had GBAs as Nintendo thought, and, IIRC, the cables were kinda hard to find (though you got on free with a game).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: supermario2k on March 22, 2016, 10:39:27 AM
I can't comment on why GBA-GC failed because I ate it up, I loved it I had a GBA and cable and thought it was awesome so what do I know. I also really love the Wii U but I get why someone who keeps bringing up the SNES doesn't.

I guess that probably doesn't make my excitement for VR amount to much either except I do see a lot of hype around it, and it's not looking like just a gimmick this time it looks like the industry has figured out how to do it right and make it affordable, sure $399 is a lot for an add on but it's not like it will be at that price forever. I read an article that Move was created with VR in mind and that Sony has been taking incremental steps for decades to get where they are because that was what the industry needed. Wii was pretty close to VR minus the headset and it sold pretty well.

I would love to play Zelda, Metroid, Mario, Kirby, DK, all in VR and I hope Nintendo prepares for that. This round of VR is like the current round of 3D, everyone was ready for it but just waiting for the technology to catch up and we are finally there. It is going to be pricey at first but not so expensive people won't buy it. This round of VR will set up the next round which will be more affordable with all the bugs worked out. This is PS1 for VR, next gen will be PS2 for VR that is when it will really take off.

I also don't think Sony won this gen just by having a traditional controller their Dual Shock 4 is the most unconventional controller they have ever bundled with a console sure it feels similar enough to traditional but it's done some new things too.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 22, 2016, 12:23:54 PM
Putting a screen in a controller costs money, right?  That money has to come from somewhere.  In the case of the Gamecube the cost was covered by the customer.  You had to own a GBA, which was a fully featured handheld videogame system and therefore was a fair chunk of change, and you had to buy the cable to connect the two.  With the Wii U, Nintendo tried to keep the costs to the customer lower but they had to compromise the hardware to do it.  Why else do you think Sony and MS lapped them in a year?  And why with their clearly inferior hardware that shouldn't cost nearly as much to produce as the XB1 and PS4 do Nintendo never cut the price of the Wii U despite it floundering at the price point it STILL is at with the NX at our door step?  They couldn't because the controller was too expensive.  It's not a matter of getting rid of the controller after the fact.  The problem with the Gamepad is that it shouldn't have been there in the first place and all the compromises that had to be made to adopt it made the overall product undesirable to consumers.

And that's my point about the concept as a whole.  Some sort of compromise has to be made for an idea like this.  Consumers will not pay extra for it and they will not accept expected features being cut or hardware being compromised.  If Nintendo had been able to demonstrate the feature as something truly worthwhile then maybe consumers would be willing to deal with some sort of tradeoff, but they didn't.

So if the NX has this touchscreen controller then either the price is going to be higher or the hardware will be compromised and why would anyone put up with that when history suggests the feature will barely be used?  How is that worth what the consumer has to give up for it?  So unless Nintendo eats the cost of this thing themselves or immediately sells us on this concept they've failed to sell us on after years of opportunities to do so, the concept is poison.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on March 22, 2016, 12:30:49 PM
You're still leaving out the fact that the system was, and very much still is, hurting for games.  While the Wii U has a number of very solid releases, the schedule very sparse over the past few years.  Most of that was Nintendo's fault for not getting over the HD learning curve because of the Wii, and not the gamepad.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 22, 2016, 01:28:46 PM
I don't get the appeal of VR gaming for classic franchises. I don't want to play a third person adventure game on a VR screen, that makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 22, 2016, 01:37:56 PM
VR seems similar to motion control to me in that for a small subset of games it could be really cool, but in most cases it's either not an improvement at all or is atively worse.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 22, 2016, 02:31:43 PM
You're still leaving out the fact that the system was, and very much still is, hurting for games.  While the Wii U has a number of very solid releases, the schedule very sparse over the past few years.  Most of that was Nintendo's fault for not getting over the HD learning curve because of the Wii, and not the gamepad.

Releasing a last gen console a mere one year before the actual next generation destroyed third party support and that more than anything made the console hurting for games.  If Nintendo's approach is to compromise hardware again for some wacky controller then they're not making a real effort to improve third party support so they're not making a real effort to fix the Wii U's biggest problem.

And Nintendo is facing irrelevance here.  What chances do they have to ever have a viable console again if this one flops as well?  And the handheld market is drying up so they won't have that as safety net anymore.  So this is NOT the time to get cute or push their luck by doubling down on failed ideas or asking consumers to compromise this or that.  This is "put up or shut up" time.  Hell I fear their brand might be so damaged that even a perfect effort might fail.  But to even entertain the idea of going with gimmicky bullshit yet again or anything even resembling the Wii U is nuts.  Nintendo can play ball or they can leave the videogame industry for something else WHEN the NX fails because of their utter refusal to learn any lessons from their past failures.  A failure like the Wii U is a wake up call that you're on the wrong path, not a suggestion that you're just a few tweaks away from the same concept working out.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on March 22, 2016, 02:48:51 PM
I wouldn't say the hardware being underpowered was the number one killer of support.  Nintendo has a reputation of being hard to deal with for 3rd parties.  That's something they need to fix.  They also upset EA at some point, so their ability to build and maintain relationships isn't up to snuff.  When 3rd parties are trying to put games on the system but can't because they have to communicate on a time lag and through a language barrier, then you don't have a hardware issue.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 22, 2016, 03:57:09 PM
The hardware being significantly different from the standard third party developers were used to and Nintendo's less-than-stellar relationships with those developers were much bigger factors than the relative power of the system. If the NX is an x86, basically just standard PC components kind of box like Sony and Microsoft are doing and Nintendo works with publishers more closely and effectively than they have in the past, they'll be fine.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Soren on March 23, 2016, 01:15:43 PM
I know this sounds like a total overreaction, but I will not buy NX if that ends up being the controller. A life without buttons to press is not worth living.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Parallax Scroll on March 23, 2016, 01:25:02 PM
New pictures of the NX controller:



(https://i.imgur.com/pkfWmFK.jpg)


(https://i.imgur.com/GB8lTkz.jpg)



Quote
- Only the upper 'nubs' of the sticks move. The bottom part is static (kind of like the circle pad, but it moves along the bottom 'sphere'.
- The rollers on the top feel and look pretty much identical to a mouse scroll-wheel. Though I do don't believe this will be the final design.
- Haptic feedback is feels like Apples 'taptic' engine. Not like regular rumble.
- 3.5mm headphone jack on the bottom


https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoNX/comments/4bn6nm/nx_controller_pictures/













Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on March 23, 2016, 01:33:19 PM
It's true...all of it!




Magnetic buttons people!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 23, 2016, 01:37:19 PM
What sort of sensation would "magnetic buttons" create? I'm kind of confused by this concept.

The design is kinda attractive without the handles. Is this the "mobile" iteration, with the handles being used for the home console? Or the handles might just be a shell to fit on the thing.

I'm still skeptical about the whole thing though.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on March 23, 2016, 01:38:19 PM
CONFIDENTIAL PROPERTY
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on March 23, 2016, 01:43:01 PM
Macbook has Sweedish (I think) button layout. Quick, who's a big, European developer? 
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on March 23, 2016, 01:45:10 PM
What sort of sensation would "magnetic buttons" create? I'm kind of confused by this concept.

The design is kinda attractive without the handles. Is this the "mobile" iteration, with the handles being used for the home console? Or the handles might just be a shell to fit on the thing.

I'm still skeptical about the whole thing though.


Magnetic buttons is a term I coined to mean the buttons/dpad are wherever you want them to be.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: TOPHATANT123 on March 23, 2016, 01:56:29 PM
On Neogaf a guy called Guevara matched up the tree reflected on the screen in picture 1 with a tree outside Massive Entertainment's headquarters, which is fucking insane, but coupled with the Swedish on the laptop I'm pretty certain it's them. They haven't made any games for Nintendo systems in the past, are owned by Ubisoft and just recently released Tom Clancy's The Division.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 23, 2016, 02:04:24 PM
Oh. That's silly.

I want my buttons to be press-able.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (The rumor well is drying up! EDITION)
Post by: Soren on March 23, 2016, 02:05:58 PM
On Neogaf a guy called Guevara matched up the tree reflected on the screen in picture 1 with a tree outside Massive Entertainment's headquarters, which is fucking insane, but coupled with the Swedish on the laptop I'm pretty certain it's them. They haven't made any games for Nintendo systems in the past, are owned by Ubisoft and just recently released Tom Clancy's The Division.

Look at the photo on Massive's wikipedia page. Major lulz.

I am on Team Buttons. I cannot see myself playing anything with that as the controller. Nintendo's silence has reached the point of harming public opinion on the NX.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 23, 2016, 02:29:08 PM
There are too many pictures of this "thing" now for it not to be something real.  But is if the NX controller or some completely unrelated device being passed off as such?  Or is it even something involved with Nintendo?  Or has someone is just so committed to a hoax that they created a mockup and have taken multiple photos of it instead of going the photoshop route?

I sure hope this isn't it.  I won't buy it.  Games need good controls and I don't for a second believe that this will be anything but a frustrating pain in the ass to use.  I didn't have a lot of hope for the future of the Wii U but at least good games were possible with it.  A bad controller can potentially ruin every game on a system.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 23, 2016, 02:42:54 PM
I just want to press buttons, guys.

I get that Nintendo has faith in the touchscreen, especially after DS. But touchscreen + buttons is the best way to play. Wii had motion controls and buttons. Wii U had touchscreen and buttons... why you so dumb, Nintendo?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 23, 2016, 03:32:32 PM
Another flaw with touchscreen buttons is what is the selling point?  Touchscreen buttons are popular with phones and tablets.  Core gamers stick with dedicated videogame systems partially because they feel they need buttons to have decent controls.  If Nintendo takes that away then why would we buy their product?  It is missing one of the key selling points of a dedicated videogame system.  If I'm okay with touchscreen controls my phone is right in my pocket.  What do I need an NX for?  Now a naïve corporate suit would think "Touchscreen buttons are popular!  Let's use them on our videogame system." but making a videogame system more similar to a phone is going to make it less of an essential purchase.  It needs to do the opposite and prove that it has a reason to exist by being different from a phone.

And let's be really optimistic and assume Nintendo somehow revolutionizes how touchscreen buttons work and that videogames can be done right with them.  So why doesn't Apple just copy that for the next iPhone/iPad and put Nintendo out of business?  These are devices people are already going to buy.  If you lower games to their level then people will just stick with phones and tablets.  If you make better gaming possible within the limitations of those platforms then people will just stick to them.  "You need buttons" is an important "fact" for Nintendo to promote because it demonstrates that phones and tablets aren't good enough.  You need to buy a real videogame system, preferably from Nintendo.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 23, 2016, 03:46:13 PM
Nintendo might be aiming for a sleeker, more portable and savvy look. A screen with no holes in it for buttons to protrude might fit that image. Also, relying less on buttons means that the iphone/ipad target audience might respond a it better to the device, so there's that.

For games, especially action-centric titles like- oh, I don't know, platformers, character action games, and many others- tactile feedback is much more rewarding and responsive. Unless these touch buttons come with some sort of haptic feedback that is centralized around a specific area(since "rumble" on the entire device for one button press would be stupid), it is a clear step back, and not one I'm remotely interested in toying around with.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on March 23, 2016, 03:50:44 PM
I sure hope this isn't it.  I won't buy it.
Just like you didn't buy Wii U after spending years complaining about it? Understand that no one believes you.

Anyway, I'm holding out hope that thing isn't the controller or at least the only controller. I can't see it being even remotely useable for Super Smash Bros. in particular due to the precision required for fighting games. I guess I wouldn't mind it being an optional accessory for... things. I'm also on #TeamButtons. Without more information, it just seems weirdly shaped for the hell of it while also lacking all the benefits of the GamePad.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Nile Boogie Returns on March 23, 2016, 04:14:15 PM
This thing will be awesome. just enough control to standout from the iOS/Android crowd without abandoning the hardcore us. Nintendo hasn't had a single control scheme in over 15 years. They are not about to change that now. I'd wait a few weeks (maybe days) before the next Direct  and make a judgement after a bit more information.


Edit:


Expect this to to connect directly to the TV with via a HDMI dongle (chromcast like)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 23, 2016, 04:37:50 PM
relying less on buttons means that the iphone/ipad target audience might respond a it better to the device, so there's that.

See my point is that that strategy doesn't make sense.  Why would the iPhone/iPad audience give a ****?  "See now we're just like your phone... except without the ability to text and phone and run apps... uh...."  That audience already has a phone.  They will not NOT have a phone unless Nintendo themselves offer one.  So you buy a Nintendo device that plays games with crappy touchscreen controls when you already have a phone and/or tablet that can play games with crappy touchscreen controls?  Why would anyone do that?

If Nintendo still thinks the old Wii/DS blue ocean crowd is just around the corner ready to come back they're fools.  With so many options for casual games in mainstream electronic devices that everyone already owns the only audience that will buy dedicated videogame systems are hardcore gamers, who will soundly reject trading buttons for a touchscreen.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: nickmitch on March 23, 2016, 04:53:25 PM
I am also #TeamButtons. They're what separate true gamers from the filthy mobile casuals.

Also, scroll wheel shoulder buttons? I thought we all realized that the GC had the right idea for shoulder buttons?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Mop it up on March 23, 2016, 06:51:39 PM
I think it would be funny if Splatoon did a Splatfest, Buttons vs Touchscreen. The former would probably win popularity... or would it?

Anyways yeah, as someone who doesn't like the GamePad, this thing somehow manages to look even worse. Way worse. I'm already super skeptical of Nintendo's next system(s) due to how many disappointing products they've released in the past five years, and so anything that looks like Wii U all over again would mean the first Nintendo system I don't buy (at least not for years, who knows what I'd buy at heavy discounts).
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 23, 2016, 07:11:34 PM
See my point is that that strategy doesn't make sense.  Why would the iPhone/iPad audience give a ****?  "See now we're just like your phone... except without the ability to text and phone and run apps... uh...."  That audience already has a phone.  They will not NOT have a phone unless Nintendo themselves offer one.  So you buy a Nintendo device that plays games with crappy touchscreen controls when you already have a phone and/or tablet that can play games with crappy touchscreen controls?  Why would anyone do that?

If Nintendo still thinks the old Wii/DS blue ocean crowd is just around the corner ready to come back they're fools.  With so many options for casual games in mainstream electronic devices that everyone already owns the only audience that will buy dedicated videogame systems are hardcore gamers, who will soundly reject trading buttons for a touchscreen.
Because Nintendo desperately believes that the blue ocean DOES exist. That was the key reason they were successful in the days of the Wii, that's likely the only way they'll gain a new audience, seeing as the older one is shrinking.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Spak-Spang on March 23, 2016, 07:52:36 PM
Magnetic buttons could work, but that is strange...do we have remove and configure the button layout with each new game?  If they were going to do this controller design I wish they would have put the analog sticks like Sony did off to the bottom. 

That could still just be a prototype design and the final controller could have more buttons.  ( I think shoulder buttons and trigger buttons could work.  )

But I am not feeling confident.  Maybe it at a force touch feature like the new Iphones?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: ShyGuy on March 23, 2016, 09:48:47 PM
Is there any proof in these pics that this is a Nintendo device?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Lucario on March 23, 2016, 10:09:52 PM
I'm a bit sceptical too, Magnetic buttons that you could move to wherever you want, now THAT would be cool.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on March 23, 2016, 10:17:45 PM
Is there any proof in these pics that this is a Nintendo device?
No. I suppose they were taken next to a Wii U GamePad to be cheeky. I'm not ready to believe this, and if it's fake, it's better than most due at least partially to not being taken on a flip phone from over 10 years ago. I read claims that this might be 3D printed. That sure would be a lot of trouble to go through.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: ShyGuy on March 23, 2016, 10:32:51 PM
I wonder if this is some weird Chinese electronic device that controls a bluetooth stereo or something. Maybe it is real though, who knows?

Reggie Knows
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: pokepal148 on March 23, 2016, 11:04:20 PM
Anyone wanna guess what that random switch on the front there is supposed to be?
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: ShyGuy on March 23, 2016, 11:12:32 PM
I think that's a camera. I wonder what that taped over part is.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Evan_B on March 24, 2016, 12:03:27 AM
It's the A button, obviously.

#TeamButtons wins!
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on March 24, 2016, 06:56:16 AM
According to Liam Robertson per a friend at Nintendo of Europe (who is apparently "a public figure"), the controller images are fake. And since so few people actually have access to NX prototype hardware or even know what it is, any leaks should be taken with "a pinch of salt." Make of that what you will. A few things:

1. Robertson is known to have good sources.
2. He has been slipped bad or slightly off info in the past (e.g. Shovel Knight Amiibo was not for Super Smash Bros.)
3. This was not cross-verified, just something he posted on The Twitter.
4. He isn't digging for NX info. Nintendo is so secretive that most people won't even tell him what they think of NX for fear of getting traced back.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Shaymin on March 24, 2016, 07:16:19 AM
Also, cats. (http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/feature/42335/rumor-cats-nx-controller-edition)
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: NWR_insanolord on March 24, 2016, 07:49:01 AM
And since so few people actually have access to NX prototype hardware or even know what it is, any leaks should be taken with "a pinch of salt."

If this is true, it makes me a lot more worried than the controller images did. It's way too late in the game for Nintendo to be that secretive with developers. I get wanting to avoid leaks, but unless it's not launching until late 2017 (which would bring its own problems), they need dev kits and detailed info to be in the hands of as many developers as possible.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Adrock on March 24, 2016, 08:53:47 AM
Nintendo absolutely should be more forthcoming with information if it hopes to launch this year. At the same time, that doesn't guarantee support. With Wii U, Nintendo got a bunch of third parties to go on record and talk about how excited they were about the platform. What it got was empty praise and late ports then nothing. This is largely Nintendo's fault for once again sending out development kits late and releasing a half-baked console.

I imagine the people Robertson spoke to are mostly in the West where Nintendo is in a weird position. The vast majority of those big publishers care less about the handheld market where Nintendo is strongest. It's an uphill battle. That doesn't mean Nintendo should do nothing. However, separate reports had Nintendo targeting Japanese publishers. They have apparently had development kits for quite some time now. I think it's conceivable that Nintendo is working closely with them to get content out at or around NX launch. It may end up being a situation in which Nintendo gets less but better support. Ideally, Nintendo could lock down a variety of good third party support, but as we've seen in the last 20 years, it hasn't been able to do that. If those select Japanese third party titles perform well, Nintendo can use that to appeal to Western third parties because right now, it has very little to bring to the table.

Of course, Western publishers could still argue that only Japanese titles sell on Nintendo platforms then the problem is that they just don't want to support Nintendo, and there's really no solution for that.
Title: Re: NX Rumors and Speculation Thread (CSI:Sweden Zoom and Enhance! EDITION)
Post by: Ian Sane on March 24, 2016, 12:27:22 PM
The only time I ever wanted to arrange the placement of buttons was when Nintendo arranged them in an unconventional way on the Cube.  So solution to a problem Nintendo created themselves?  Actually that's like the easiest way to make a Nintendo rumour believable.