Topic: New article on Nintendo´s future! Must-read!!!

[Lecter]

Nintendo isn't going party, thats just nuts to think about. People want to develop for the Xbox over the GameCube because they feel the Xbox is better hardware wise, has more potential (spelled that wrong I know), and because no matter what the Xbox is going to be around. Like it or not, Microsoft has entered the console race and isn't leaving.

[AgentSeven]

Wow, Nintendo has failed to evolve?!  They are the leaders in video game innovation and evolution.  All the competition has done since it entered the market was to steal the Big N's best ideas.  You would have to be in denial not to see that. I can list several examples as proof.

Also, units shipped means nothing.  Period.  Do you know how many stores sit on piles of unsold Ps2's?  The main reason the Ps2 has shipped so many units is because it is a peice of defective garbage.  Do a search for "defective Ps2" on any search engine and see what I mean.

You know another reason Ps2 and X-Box have shipped so many units?  It's because there are mod chips for both.  People like systems that can be chipped.  Much of the X-box's sales have come from the fact that it is so easy to mod.  I don't approve of this activity, but many are doing it.  If you look at the abysmal sales of almost every single X-box game you'll know why.  People are buying the system but not buying games.

If any company needs to evolve its that joke of a company called Sony.  We get endless sequels and clones.  Now we even get sequels of sequels.  When will it end?!  Now there is talk that Sony plans to employ "Generic Game Engines" in the development of Ps3 games.  Meaning the same engine would be used for several driving games, platform games, Fps games and more.  That's gonna be really good for gaming! (MASSIVE SARCASM)

Lecter, you seem like a bitter person with an axe to grind.  Don't like Nintendo?  Well tough.  Maybe you're the problem.

Nintendo is doing fine, even in the face of a massive global recession.  I'm sure they'd like to sell more units, and they will, slow and steady, just give them time.  No one even mentions that there are more GameBoy's worldwide than all the other systems combined.  

As for innovation, I'm sure Nintendo will be providing both Microsoft and Sony with their best ideas in the years to come, lol!

[Mario]

Wow, you said it all Agent Seven. *claps* Great post

[nonjagged]

Quote
Originally posted by: Lecter
Nintendo isn't going party, thats just nuts to think about. People want to develop for the Xbox over the GameCube because they feel the Xbox is better hardware wise, has more potential (spelled that wrong I know), and because no matter what the Xbox is going to be around. Like it or not, Microsoft has entered the console race and isn't leaving.

M$, have rapidly become the oppressors of the console gaming community, more often than not, for some arrogantly jelous reason try to put down the loyal Nintendo fanbase, with the use of critical statements in their interviews/*cough* propaganda *cough* that somehow off-topic & out of frustration, manage to sneak critisism against Nintendo.
Heck, M$ even now belatedly claim that their set-top-box isnt competing with the Gamecube platform yet somehow M$ can never find the courage (as they are beyond embarrest) to actually publically state anything critical against $ony's PSX platforms, the platform M$ is actually directly competing against because M$ are beyond embarrest. Embarrest that their delusion they will convert million$ of Japanese gamers from the PSX platforms.
In my opinion the Xbox is one of the biggest bombs ever to launch in the Japanese market and M$ should tuck their spade-tipped tale between their legs already and leave the console industry alone before M$ becomes a public laughing stock.
There is no point Steve Balmer's Xbox division billion dollar losses hiding behind the overpriced M$ O/S software division.
Notice how Seamus Blackley quite his position (LOL) after Xbox launch day which fell short of a few billion dollars compared to ps2 launch day.

To now come in here and claim M$ is here to stay is so ridiculously idiotic if thats exactly what Nintendo have been doing for decades.
The point is Nintendo is no longer directly & fanatically aiming to have the biggest console userbase or the biggest 3rd party lineup, Nintendo is aiming to keep refreshing its franchises (even if it means that getting a cel-shaded Zelda on GCN before a Realistic Zelda on GCN2 will hurt many fanboy's anticipations).
Nintendo has been doing risks and will continue to support risky unknown franchise if they have substance.
As for the rest of platforms. Expect many ports and sequels keeping their platforms afloats.

Its ok for M$ to lose billion$ on the Xbox so it can get a userbase to build on future platforms, however can anyone provide conclusive evidence that the fanbase will always remain on Xbox platforms? Exactly. Actually theres a large proportion of Xbox users that are actually hackers or Linux users turning the Xbox into other types of devices. And then theres the huge underground Xbox market dont buy games anymore because pirates are their new distributor of games.
Considering the GCN is a gaming-only platform which means doesnt appeal to Mainstreamers wishing for Multi-media entertainment or DVD, and considering that the GCN userbase can only purchase software at retail prices instead of underground pirate prices and considering that the Xbox has bombed-out bigtime in Japan, I think the GCN has actually wholloped the Xbox and then some. Home run.
M$ will now beg ATI to concentrate on making the XBox2 GPU more powerful than the GCN2's GPU and observers such as myself will be having a barrel of laughs.

The majority of the markets dont want the Xbox (poor Japan M$ is alreadygiving up on translating US NTSC games for the Japanese Territory) and then Lecturer threatens us that M$ is here to stay they are not leaving the console industry LOL I honestly cant stop laughing.

Well the concilation is at least japanese gamers get a manual thats in their language.
Talk about M$ pleasing its userbase/fanbase. LOL

M$ will never ever surpass $ony's console stranglehold. Never.
M$ should look into a new entertainment device, it will never compete with $ony because $ony is universally accepted especially in the crucial Japanese market. M$ however is a joke universally.
Square and Nintendo have already declined M$'s offers for many years now and the closest M$ will EVER come to exclusively owning a decent Japanese developer is Sega which has made it clear they will remain Mulit-Platform for the time being.



And Im currently not playing 1 year old PC ports, because ........finished them a year ago on PC not Xbox.

[thecubedcanuck]

nonjagged

you seriously need to seek professional help asap.

[Hostile Creation]

Nah, he just doesn't spell very well.  You're a jerk, however.  Seldom can you ever say anything worth being said.

[nonjagged]

Quote
Originally posted by: thecubedcanuck
nonjagged

you seriously need to seek professional help asap.

LOL upon seeking immediate professional help by a doctor with electrotherapy devices and a rubber glove, I was asked by the Doc to pass a box of tissues onto thecubedshmuck to help him wipe the tears from his saddened eyes.

Ohhhh poor baby. M$ is already giving up in the Japanese territory (about 2 years too late) for this generation, and $ony have a handheld and PSX server coming to keep you occupied while you wait for imaginary ps3 launch date, while GCN2 of course naturally will be despised by you because it specialises better in delivering realtime loading of Games, not DVD etc.

Ohh poor baby.

[Hostile Creation]

Okay, that wasn't exactly a great comeback, nonjagged, but I suppose I'll stay out of it from now on.  This thread was a waste of time anyway.

[Rhoq]

The way I see it is this - Planet GameCube and other sites devoted to Nintendo products wouldn't exist if there were people like us that are still Nintendo loyalists.

Am I disappointed that the GameCube is not as popular or successful as it should be? Hell yeah.

Will I buy the Cube's successor? You better believe it!

Aside from the Atari 2600, ColecoVision, Commodore 64, Sega Master System and Atari Lynx, I have never owned anything but Nintendo (going back to the Game & Watch series). With the exception of the Atari Lynx, All of the other systems were owned prior to me getting an NES and we all know how fast the Lynx came and went. I missed out on the SNES and did not own a system during that generation, although I played plenty of Super Nintendo when I visited friends. I also played Sega Genesis during that time, but I prefered the SNES. For some reason, Nintendo was just more appealing and the controller was more comfortable.

When the N64 came out, I bought it. It felt so good to be a console owner once again. I loved that machine. I would even go so far as to say that it was greatest console ever (so far). At that time the Sega Saturn, Sony PlayStation and Sega DreamCast were around. Although I have never played a DreamCast, I have experienced the Saturn and PlayStation (again through friends). I was not impressed.

As soon as the news of Nintendo's "Dolphin" broke, I was excited. I couldn't care less about any other system. PlayStation 2 - who cares? X-Box? Fu*k Bill Gates. Sony's system bores me. X-Box seemed like a joke a few years ago and I'm still laughing at that thing. Neither system ever interested me, but the Cube always did - even before it was called the "GameCube".

Nintendo has never let me down. Even in the current generation, while I may be a bit disappointed that Nintendo lacks proper 3rd Party support, the GameCube library has a stronger line-up in terms of quality games than the Playstation 2 and X-Box combined (IMHO).

Do I think that Nintendo has a problem? Yes, absolutely. Poor advertising and an unfair (but justified) reputation of being a "kiddie company" have tarnished Nintendo's image in the eyes of many current generation gamers. I am confident that Nintendo is aware of their current situation and I believe that they are already trying to correct the problem with their latest advertising campaign (Soul Caliber II, Rebel Strike, WrestleMania X9, F-Zero GX, etc.)

Instead of pointing out all of Nintendo's faults, I think we should just sit back and watch what they do as we near the end of the GameCube's life and enter the next generation of console gaming. (Do I think the GameCube is dying - Hell No!)

[nonjagged]

Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
Okay, that wasn't exactly a great comeback, nonjagged, but I suppose I'll stay out of it from now on.  This thread was a waste of time anyway.

Who would bother making a greatcomeback to someone who never offers their opinion of why they are directly negative towards you?

Quote
Originally posted by: Hostile Creation
This thread was a waste of time anyway.

You mean this thread or thecubedcluck is a waste of your time?

[mouse_clicker]

"nonjagged

you seriously need to seek professional help asap."

Cubed, if you're going to insult someone like that, don't just take a hit and run. You better be ready to have a counter argument to the guy you're bashing otherwise it just makes you look like a jerk. While I may not agree with all of nonjagged's views (I think), he's at least adressing anything people throw at him instead of just taking low blows at them.

[nonjagged]

Quote
Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
"nonjagged

you seriously need to seek professional help asap."

Cubed, if you're going to insult someone like that, don't just take a hit and run. You better be ready to have a counter argument to the guy you're bashing otherwise it just makes you look like a jerk. While I may not agree with all of nonjagged's views (I think), he's at least adressing anything people throw at him instead of just taking low blows at them.

I didnt have a great comeback because he normally just says something stupid during the spur of the moment and never follows it up, other than Nintendo should go 3rd party or I think Nintendo dont concentrate on gimmicky aesthetics etc.

Actually I welcome any criticism or in his case insults, but normally those that cant handle something that unfortunately goes against their gaming beliefs and therefore just sniper-on-the-run with no substancial argumentative backup, is whats funny. They then become self-inflicted prime targets.

Hence the offering of tissues. ......<end>bait</end>

[KDR_11k]

As long as the N consoles offer games that are radically different from what my PC can deliver, I'll buy the next one.

Debating whether or not the current situation can be called a failure for N is mostly pointless. Just laugh at the fools who don't know what they're missing. BTW, all that impressing-friends-with-GC stuff doesn't work for me... Friends too narrowminded. Although... I've never tried Zelda or Metroid on them, just multiplayer titles...

To phrase it like Pooch from Sinfest: Me loves me Cubey!

[mouse_clicker]

I don't mind if someone callsme a raving lunatic if they at least point out why they think so and what they disagree about. People who sit on the side lines and toss out insults annoy me.

[Hostile Creation]

Ah, good point, nonjagged.

The thread in general was pointless, since all the article did was bash Nintendo (with a lot of prejudice and using inaccurate facts) and make me aware of stuff that I already knew (intentional (oxy)moron).  But thecubedcanuck was particularly annoying.

[theRPGFreak]

People! People! People! This discussion has gone nuts! I do think, however, that whoever wrote this, however, made intresting points however.
To start off, lets look at Acclaim. I am suprised that tehy are not on life-support like 3DO is! They put so much hype over BMX XXX saying how a huge success it was going to be, when it turned into a huge flop! I have seen that game new for $10.00! I don't have a problem with Acclaim, but I don't that there problems are just because of their games not doing well with Nintendo. I think that the main problem is that they need to make new and uniqe games. Vexx was a real cool game, if that was a gamecube exclusive, with more hype around it, I think that it would have been a huge success.
Another thing that they stated about Square Enix, I find not true. The company is looking forward towards Final Fantasy Crystal Cronicles, which other people are, and I think that Capcom is looking at Viewtiful Joe and seeing how well that title went in Japan.
Another thing that I do not like is this whole "connectivity" idea. Sure it sounds good, but what I don't like about the idea is that if you want to enjoy these games, you need to get another 3 people over who each have GBAs, linkcables, and all who own the same game! If they want this idea to work, then it should also have online play with it. I dont want all of this "safe idea" crap, because this is the same thinking that was why the Nintendo 64 was put on cartrages, and got their butts kicked by Sony!
Another thing that Nintendo needs to do is evolve. I keep hearing people complain that if they change then it wouldn't be the "true Nintendo" but the way I see it, if Nintendo took the changes that it needs to do, then they might stand a good fighting chance against the PS3. Also, how does Nintendo think that they will stand a chance against this PS3?! From what I have heard about the whole"cells" in the system, it sounds like they would not stand a chance. If someone could reply to that it would be helpful!
I also did NOT like the Wind Waker's story. They screwed it all up!
Later

[thepoga]

some the stuff that the article said was true, BUT its just REPEATING the stuff that most people have already realized a long time ago. its same old same old stuff.

Qoute from Lecter
People say OH Viewtiful Joe is gonna rock! Yeah it probably will but the majority of gamers out there wont buy it, and as good of a game it is, sales wont do so great in the US.

It sold out in japan. if it sells mildy well here it will still make a profit.

[ThePerm]

everyone recognises that Nintendo will be a forced to recon with next generation...

you know alot of devlopment tiem goes int othe creation of objects and levles..well did...but certain objects in the levels are high enough poly enough to move over to the next console. Also, you'll note that it will be so much easier to make characters..because you wont have to cut back on the models and it iwll allow the same models used in promotional work(like sunshines or mario 64's) to b e used in game.
Think of how metroid looks now...next generation?

the bridge between square and Nintendo is beign healed..if we dont get final fantasy #, we will prolly get chrono trigger sequals, or new exclusive series.

god knows how crazy silicon knights will become

zelda hyper realistic..we coudl be seeing an all new link next gen..or hero of time with ultra super graphics

the bridge is being built between Konami and Nintendo

Nitnendo has a good relationship with Capcom and Namco

all this triforce stuff and sega

really what nintendo is done is made this generation the "im sorry i made you sad" third party gen and next will be the super mega glory gen

and then you got all these hyper 17-19 year old hardcore nintendo fans who will have jobs in hte industry soon

put that together...

[Usul]

Here is what Nintendo needs to do if it wants to achieve market-domination with its next-gen-console "Gamecube 2":

1. Backward-Compatibility with "Gamecube 1", and backward-compatibility with "playstation 1&2". Backward-compatibility was the only thing that let the playstation2 outsell the dreamcast a few years back. Yes that means no loger special-mini-optical-disc but the full dvd one, better still the new blue-ray-dvd that can store up to 50 Gigabytes data, better still make it a recordable one, with a TV-tuner, so everyone can store his game-progress right on the game-dvd, just like in the good old cartridge-time.

2. Stop doing remakes or ports of old games. That means no more Mario or Zelda, but actively creating new characters and new sorts of games.

3. Stop using cell-shading. Sure it saves time and money, but it's ugly, and it surely turns off new customers. Go instead for as much realism as is possible with the hardware, while still maintaining 60 fps. Yes, 60 fps are very important, not like the 30 fps in Mario Sunshine or Waverace.

4. Reduce the percentage you require the thirdparty-developers to pay for every selled game on your platform from now 20% to 5%. Then you can reduce the price-point for new games from now 50$ to 35$. At the start it means less money for you and the thirdparty-developer/publisher, but in the long-run, it means more people will buy consoles and games, and it will surely make up for the loss.

5. Every single commercial or advertising you do should promote thirdparty-games and not your own. Your own will be made known anyway.

6. The Gamepad is the most important thing for gaming, because through that the interaction with the game-world occurs. So, you must absolutely take care that the most improtant genres are played as well as possible with it. The "Gamecube 1"-pad failed really miserable, because it was espescially build to work perfectly with certain games(espescially Nintendo-games like Mario and Zelda), but to be a pain in the ass for others, because of the face-buttons, that are not useful for trendsport games, or beat-them-ups where you are required to use more than one button simultaneusly, and in a timed manner.
For racing-games the R and L - buttons aren't optimal. The triggers that the dreamcast-pad used were much better in that regard.

7. Offer broad-band-built-in-Online-capability right from the start. Even though it's not very useful for gaming-fun, because the gamers are not physically in the same room, but it's very important for the public mind. the buyer wants to buy a console that has the capability right out of the box, even though he won't use it very often.

8. Buy Sega for its knowledge in building consoles, and off course for the sports-series it offers, and off course for Sonic, Monkeyball and espescially for Virtua Tennis.

That's it.

Usul

[thecubedcanuck]

Ok, here is the problem I have with nonjagged.

His posts are nothing more than fanbot rhetoric. They make some very good points if look at things from only one side, I also have a very hard time respecting anyone who uses 50 $$$$ to say Microsoft and Sony, as this simply magnifies his already evidient bias.

Yes, he loves Nintendo, good for him, but his arguments about them are made up of emotion and not fact.
It is nice to think that Nintendo will dominate the next generation, but at this point it is a very unlikely scenerio based on the current market trends.

I have been a Nintendo console owner from the very beginning, and  own 19 games for my gamecube, and as hard as it is for some to believe I am not a nintendo basher, I am simply a long time customer who has seen a drop in quality, and has grown tired of what Nintendo has to offer. I honestly dont get the feeling I use to get from nintendo games. Zelda was way to easy, repetitive, and downright boring, Sunshine was a disaster, and I have never like games such as Mario party and pokemon. This is all my opinion, and is not right or wrong, but it appears to be a more common opinion than the opposite one,  as sales clearly reflect.

 

[Hostile Creation]

cubed, as usual you have me trying to decide if I hate you or like you.  That post was good, though I must disagree (Zelda was enjoyable; I'm currently trying to finish everything possible in the game.  Sunshine I found to be a lot of fun as well.  Mario Party is not my favorite, but I'll play it if it's on.) on many points.

As for how sales are going. . . quite frankly, I'd rather them stay down than Nintendo change their style (though if they can get the best of both, all the better).  In general, Nintendo games are mainly the only video games I like.  Sure, I play others on occassion, and even own some (there are always exceptions, and in this case, a fair deal of them), but I still end up preferring Nintendo to the competition.  I've said it before, it's as if they tailor specifically to my needs.  It's bizarre, nearly unnerving.  So while it's perfectly dandy for you to be a bit disappointed now, I must confess that I'm as pleased as ever.

[mouse_clicker]

"This is all my opinion, and is not right or wrong, but it appears to be a more common opinion than the opposite one, as sales clearly reflect."

Yes, because Zelda became the most preordered game in history because EVERYONE thought it was boring and repetitive. Look, I'm lgad you finally said what you thought instead of tossing out one-liners, but don't go assuming everyone shares your opinions because we DON'T. I don't know why people have come to the conclusion that sales are bad- like I said, Nintendo's performing at least as well as MS but you don't hear any discontent on that side of the fence. Nintendo's not doing as well as they should be doing but to say they're doing bad is downright idiotic. And sales don't indicate quality, cubed- you should know that. Most games nowadays sell on marketing alone- I think you'll find 99% of Gamecube owners love their system and all the games Nintendo has given them. From what I'VE seen, you're in the minority when it comes to your opinion of Nintendo's quality.

[thecubedcanuck]

Hostile

Quote
quite frankly, I'd rather them stay down than Nintendo change their style (though if they can get the best of both, all the better).

Yes, they can get both quite easily, however, they are too damn stubborn to do so.
Keep the Mario and the Zelda's for the loyalists, but get a third party to make a blood bath game like GTA.
Nintendo is the only company that can really pull this off (if they havent waited to long already), they have a loyal following like no other gaming company has ever had or probably ever will, and as long as they keep giving those loyalists what they want, they will stick around. Now if you add a few games in the style of GTA (hell make one even more violent) you will draw in the so called mainstream gamer. This is benefitial two fold, not only does it sell consoles, but is also gives them a chance to expose the new generation of gamers to their own classics, like Mario, which in turn "may" create more loyalists.
Many will argue that this would be selling out, I strongly disagree. This wont drive away loyalists because they will still have their favorites, and it may bring in new comers, if anything it is sound business practice. Give your current customers what they want but also add a few new things for the rest of them.
Sounds simple.

[thecubedcanuck]

Quote
Yes, because Zelda became the most preordered game in history because EVERYONE thought it was boring and repetitive.

Pre-orders have nothing to do with the game being boring. How many of the 600,000 pre-orderer's played the game prior to ordering it?
If you look through these threads you will find a quite a few people saying that Zelda was far to easy, thus making it boring. Plus, I never used the word everyone, again you need to mis quote to prove a point.

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but don't go assuming everyone shares your opinions because we DON'T.

I never assumed that at all, that is why I clearly stated it was my OPINION and not a right or wrong fact.

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I don't know why people have come to the conclusion that sales are bad- like I said, Nintendo's performing at least as well as MS but you don't hear any discontent on that side of the fence.

Sales are well below expectations, this is very much obvious to most everyone with an open mind. As for MS, this is their first kick at the console cat, for them to be tied with a long time console giant is a plus. Nintendo has seen dropping sales on their last 2 consoles, for them to be neck and neck with the new guy isnt a plus at all.

Quote
And sales don't indicate quality, cubed- you should know that. Most games nowadays sell on marketing alone-

I never said they do. What I said was, Nintendos games have been diminishing in quality, at least from my perspective, you have every right to disagree with me on this as it all opinion. Personally I didnt find Zelda or mario to be of any better quality than the good games on rival systems. As for marketing selling games, yes it does. However I think you read to much into it. Marketing sells games to it target market, people are buying those games because those are the kind of games they want. Just because you dont like a certain game doesnt mean it is of lesser quality. GTA3 is a great example, many here say they hate it when in fact it is very much a quality title, no less than say Zelda of Metroid, it just isnt what many here like.
Remeber Nintendo markets as well, however their games just dont appeal to as much of an audience, giving them the appearence of being less marketed.

Quote
So while it's perfectly dandy for you to be a bit disappointed now, I must confess that I'm as pleased as ever.

Good for you.

[egman]

I read this article a while ago so I have had time to really think about the issues.

The one thing that annoys me about some of these rants is the relativity of success. Yeah, Nintendo is not doing as great as they would like, but people seem to make it out as if being anything other than number 1 is a shame. No, it's not. I much rather Nintendo ensures it health rather than recklessly pursue the same things that their competitors are. Some may disagree with me on that point, accussing Nintendo of cheapening out for their bottom line instead delivering the goods to the users. My response would be that I would rather have some Nintendo than none at all or in a form that is drastically different.

Another thing that gets under my skin is overblown expectations. Nintendo has made excellent games and still does, but we can't forget that there are humans behind the content. They are not gods, and like other humans they have their creative walls. The industry as a whole has come up against a creative wall. If you don't agree, I suggest you look over the list of games at E3 and tell me that no one is not playing it safe.

Admittedly, Nintendo hasn't helped themselves much in this case by pouring much of resources into EAD. I think Nintendo has less of an image problem and more of a problem of forcing similarily themed content down consumers throats. The best way to solve this problem is to give back EAD's deadline freedom while stepping up game production from other internal groups. It's pathetic that halfway through the GC life we have had yet see to likes of groups like Intelligent Systems or Camelot Software outside of GBA titles or spin-off games. I'm hoping that news of Fire Emblem coming to GC is a sign that Nintendo realizes that they have a lot of other content they can provide on their system that can be even more appealing to the consumer.

The last thing I want to talk about is the direction of the industry. I get so sick about people saying this and that about Nintendo not doing online or some sh*t. First of all, online gamers are a miniscule minority. A very vocal minority, but a small one. Just because they think online is the future, that doesn't make it so in reality. The same thing can be said about Nintendo and connectivity, so don't fool yourself and buy into the hype of online. Internet growth has slowed down, which works against plans for making online connectivity the killer app for consumers outside of the hardcore gaming block.

Sony and Microsoft are still trying to sell the idea of convergence. I have yet to see evidence  that this is going to be the path of the industry, which is why I get annoyed when shots are taken at Nintendo for not believing in the same vision. What makes Sony's and Mircosoft's vision of convergence more valid than Nintendo's idea of simple game appliances? Again, just because forum users want online or convergence devices, that doesn't mean that it's a smart venture. The mainstream consumer is the one that's needs to be sold on these ideas, and so far nothing can be said about acceptance of these concepts because they are currently aimed at early adopters and hardcore users.