Topic: People Need To Stop Bitching

[Adrock]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/For_Want_of_a_Nail_%28proverb%29

And? You linked to a proverb. I'm not having trouble understanding what you mean. I just disagree with you.

[Luigi Dude]

You have to keep in mind the clock is ticking for when the competition show up. Even if people will "figure it out eventually", the longer it takes them to figure it out the more likely it is they will start hearing about the PS4 and 420 with its shiny casual friendly Kinect 2.0 or whatever, and so the danger here is by the time they finally figure out that the Wii U is a new console it may be too late because by then the casual blue ocean market will have lost interest and their attention will have shifted over to the competition. You don't think that would hurt Nintendo in the long run?

Once again, Nintendo is launching the Wii U with NSMB U, Wii Fit U, and Nintendo Land which they're advertising as a  spiritual successor to Wii Sports.  The last game in each series sold this many copies.

Wii Sports Resort - 30 million

NSMB Wii - 26 million

Wii Fit Plus - 20 million

Just because some of you aren't interested in these games, doesn't change the fact that millions of other people will be.  These three games have huge appeal to the current Wii audience and if they were to go to a store thinking these games are still Wii games, they'll discover this holiday that these are Wii U games and they'll need to buy a Wii U to play them.

[Louieturkey]

Reggie is a PR guy, so its his job to make this clearer to consumers. But from what we've seen on Jimmy Fallon he doesn't seem to be doing a good job of driving this important fact home to people. He spends most of his time focusing on the Tablet, but its actually the console itself that people need to be sold on.

Do you really think that Reggie ignored the fact that Jimmy thought it was a Wii peripheral?

If so, you are wrong.  He corrected him immediately and made it clear that this was a new system with HD graphics and would have new gaming experiences that were not possible on the Wii.

[Ian Sane]

If they can avoid potential confusion, why not do it?  They might not have time now and that is an acceptable reason for not changing anything at this point.  But if they can do something still, why not do it?  They have two examples of someone assuming the Wii U is just an accessory.  They aren't running ads yet.  They can make sure the ads emphasize that it's a new system.  If they seriously just changed the colour of the system to blue or something the problem would solved.  It really isn't hard, unless they're already manufacturing these things.

We know this is a potential problem and have real examples of someone making the wrong assumption.  No one is going to be mistaken about this stuff in the longrun but it could affect early sales.  Why risk it if you can fix it?  Why just blow that off?  They probably still have time to correct it so why shouldn't they do it?  Obviously Jimmy Fallon thinking it was a Wii accessory was not their intention.  Better to find this out now before launch.  Finding out now is a gift.  They've been warned about a potential mistake before they went through with it.

So maybe they'll ignore it and assume it doesn't matter.  Is that sort of "eh... good enough" attitude going to be limited to this?  If they can't fix something this obvious how are they going to get the less obvious stuff right?  When Nintendo goofs up the routine stuff that any idiot could get right it hurts my faith in them.  If you can't get the easy and obvious stuff right how they hell will you get the hard stuff right?  Nintendo should strive to be as perfect as economically feasible.

Nintendo should assume that no one cares about the Wii U.  If no one cares will they tolerate lame excuses?  Is it worth the risk of them making the incorrect assumption about it?  This is what killed the Gamecube.  Nintendo lost ground with the N64 so no one cared about the Gamecube and Nintendo just offered lame excuses for stupid avoidable mistakes, didn't really make any sort of splash to attract attention, and often seemed to play specifically to their detractor's criticisms.  No one cares unless you give them a reason to and never assume that anyone will make an exception for you.  Nintendo should act like no one cares about the Wii U and that they have to convince the world to get one.  If they're blowing off the fact that the Wii U has twice been mistaken for a Wii accessory, they're not acting like that.  They're acting like the world will make an exception for their easily avoidable mistake.

[Stogi]

You know what tells people somethings new more than a name? Price and product placement. Look at any carlot to confirm.

[Chozo Ghost]

they'll discover this holiday that these are Wii U games and they'll need to buy a Wii U to play them.

Considering that almost no store will accept returns on opened media, this will be a pretty costly lesson for consumers. If they make the false assumption that these games will play on their Wiis (and why wouldn't they when they come in the same pearl white dvd cases as old school Wii games?) they will have plunked down $50 or $60 on a game which is incompatible with their system and cannot be returned once its been opened.

Gamestop and other used retailers will probably benefit because they can take all these opened unreturnable Wii U games as trade-ins, but with a trade in you don't get the full value of the game back, so that sucks for consumers.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that this is going to frustrate, anger, and possibly even disenfranchise consumers. Definitely not a good opening move by Nintendo to start off this next generation.

[UncleBob]

Is that a whole lot different when Game Boy Color games and Game Boy Advance games came in virtually the exact same box but wouldn't play on the old system?

And why won't these green-cases XBox games play on my XBox?  I have an "XBox Live" and this game says right on it "XBox Live".  What's a 360?

[broodwars]

Wii Sports Resort - 30 million

NSMB Wii - 26 million

Wii Fit Plus - 20 million

Something that I think is worth noting is that all 3 of those games will have released over 3 years prior to the Wii U's projected launch.  The casual market's changed a lot in 3 years.  3 years ago, I'd go to a public place and I'd see a large chunk of people playing Sodoku (or some other casual experience) on their DS.  Just yesterday I was at a doctor's office, and half the waiting room (of about a dozen or so people) were browsing the internet or playing solitaire on their smart phones.

My point is that just because something sold exceptionally well to the casuals 3 years ago, that doesn't mean it will necessarily sell to that extent now (especially with the economy only having gotten worse).  Just observe how Wii hardware and software sales have plummeted in the last few years as the mobile gaming market has soared.  3 years ago, a program like Wii Fit would have seemed a useful way to track exercise.  These days, my mother's phone has half a dozen Apps dedicated to exercise.  The various mobile games stores have flooded the market with casual experiences, as well.  Are these experiences as good as something Nintendo might make?  No, but the casuals generally seem to consider them "good enough" for their needs.

Maybe Nintendo's casual gamble will pay off again with these Wii U launch games, but I definitely wouldn't treat it as a "sure thing" at this point.  Nintendo still has a lot to do between now and the launch to prove that the Wii U is a device that people who don't ordinarily follow games need to buy.  And considering right now they seem to have a continual problem convincing casuals that the Wii U is a new console, I'd say they have their work cut out for them.

[Chozo Ghost]

Is that a whole lot different when Game Boy Color games and Game Boy Advance games came in virtually the exact same box but wouldn't play on the old system?

And why won't these green-cases XBox games play on my XBox?  I have an "XBox Live" and this game says right on it "XBox Live".  What's a 360?

Well, first off two wrongs don't make a right. Just because this was done in the past with the GBC doesn't mean it was right then either. Second, the market has grown a lot larger since then, and the bulk of the Wii U market is made up of ignorant blue market casuals who don't read up on this stuff. With the GBC it was less of an issue because only gamers played the games, but now grandma and mom and dad and aunt jill are playing with Wiis, and are they going to know the difference?

And I'm not really sure, but back in 1998 a lot of stores might have still accepted returns on used media, because this was back before piracy really took off. So back then if you bought a GBC game and mistakenly thought it would play on your Gameboy you could probably return it and get your money back so it was no big deal. Nowadays you can't though.

[UncleBob]

Here's what just their million sellers for their last fiscal year were. (April 1st 2011 to March 31st 2012)
New Super Mario Bros Wii - 4.32 million  (26.26 million lifetime total)
Wii Sports - 2.84 million  (79.60 million lifetime total)
Wii Fit Plus - 2 million  (20.48 million lifetime total)

Those "3 year old" games are still selling multi-million.  I know that in a world where Call of Duty sells a bajillion copies on launch day, selling a measly 4.32 million doesn't sound like a lot... but consider that most games DO NOT SELL even a million copies in their lifetime.  Selling 4.32 million more copies, three years later, with 26 million copies already in the wild?  And in the case of NSMBWii, at $50/pop, not as re-release or at a price reduction?  I seriously doubt you'll find a publisher in the world that wouldn't be thrilled with those results.

Second, the market has grown a lot larger since then, and the bulk of the Wii U market is made up of ignorant blue market casuals who don't read up on this stuff. With the GBC it was less of an issue because only gamers played the games, but now grandma and mom and dad and aunt jill are playing with Wiis, and are they going to know the difference?

Heh.

Back then, the market was made up of little kiddies playing their Game Boys on the school bus with these grandmas, moms, dads and aunts buying little Timmy a new game for his birthday.  And then, they were buying the game for someone else and had even less of an idea what was going on.

And I'm not really sure, but back in 1998 a lot of stores might have still accepted returns on used media,

They didn't.

because this was back before piracy really took off.

The Piracy angle is only a small part of why you can't bring back games, movies, music, etc.  Basically, they don't want you to play the media, then return it.  Stores had no-return except for defective policies back in the Atari/Intellivision days.

[Chozo Ghost]

Well, like I said I'm not really defending Nintendo's handling of the GBC either. Personally, I think they should have done more to distinguish that handheld's appearance also. They also could have added a few more buttons. But the GBC is ancient history. What matters right now is the Wii U.

[UncleBob]

Ancient History and Recent History show that your concerns are that big of a deal.

You have to go back to the stone age of video gaming to determine why.

To see the effects of what you're describing (mass consumer confusion), you'd have to hop in the Waybac machine all the way to 1982.  That's when Atari first introduced the 5200.  A superior console in every way.... except that it didn't play Atari 2600 games.  Confused and angered people to the point where the next system, released "too little, too late", the Atari 7800 actually included backwards compatibility with the 2600 - but not even the 5200.

However, this was a defining point in gaming history.  Consumers were educated about the way technology works - and when the Super Nintendo was released, there was virtually no major backlash due to brand confusion.

[Evan_B]

Soooo... I'm hearing more and more about the Wii U being, essentially, on-par with current gen offerings. What's the consensus on this? How do you feel about the console if this is the case...?

[Luigi Dude]

Wii Sports Resort - 30 million

NSMB Wii - 26 million

Wii Fit Plus - 20 million

Something that I think is worth noting is that all 3 of those games will have released over 3 years prior to the Wii U's projected launch.  The casual market's changed a lot in 3 years.  3 years ago, I'd go to a public place and I'd see a large chunk of people playing Sodoku (or some other casual experience) on their DS.  Just yesterday I was at a doctor's office, and half the waiting room (of about a dozen or so people) were browsing the internet or playing solitaire on their smart phones.

My point is that just because something sold exceptionally well to the casuals 3 years ago, that doesn't mean it will necessarily sell to that extent now (especially with the economy only having gotten worse).  Just observe how Wii hardware and software sales have plummeted in the last few years as the mobile gaming market has soared.  3 years ago, a program like Wii Fit would have seemed a useful way to track exercise.  These days, my mother's phone has half a dozen Apps dedicated to exercise.  The various mobile games stores have flooded the market with casual experiences, as well.  Are these experiences as good as something Nintendo might make?  No, but the casuals generally seem to consider them "good enough" for their needs.

Maybe Nintendo's casual gamble will pay off again with these Wii U launch games, but I definitely wouldn't treat it as a "sure thing" at this point.  Nintendo still has a lot to do between now and the launch to prove that the Wii U is a device that people who don't ordinarily follow games need to buy.  And considering right now they seem to have a continual problem convincing casuals that the Wii U is a new console, I'd say they have their work cut out for them.

Even if the games I mentioned only sell half of what they did on the Wii which would be a huge drop, that would still give the Wii U 3 titles at launch that will end up selling over 10 million copies and ensure the system has a great launch.

Of course the saying that smart phones have for some reason taken away much of Nintendo's casual audience still hasn't been proven at all.  If this was true, then why has the 3DS been selling better then the DS was at this point in it's lifespan and games like Mario Kart  7, which was very popular with the casuals on the DS and Wii was able to sell over 5 million copies in just a few months after release and still selling.  It's already outsold Super Circuit lifetime total for the GBA which was the last handheld Mario Kart before MKDS and will easily outsell the last console Mario Kart before the Wii, Double Dash lifetime total of around 7 million well before the end of this year.  This shows that a good amount of the large audience Nintendo picked up with the DS and Wii are still buying their systems.  It also shows that the 3DS name wasn't a large cause of confusion just like the Wii U name won't be a large cause of confusion because a big game like Mario Kart was able to convince a large number of people.


Now yes, some of the casuals Nintendo picked up might be satisfied with the apps on smart phones now and won't buy a new console, but the 3DS has shown quite clearly a large amount will buy a new Nintendo system because they still want the games Nintendo is releasing on them.

[Ian Sane]

If the possibility of people confusing the Wii U for a Wii accessory was merely hypothetical and I would say that the concern is overblown.  But both CNN and Jimmy Fallon thought at one point that it was a Wii accessory.  I think those two independent incidents suggest that it might be an issue.

Regarding the GBC, at the very least a lot of GBC games were playable on a regular Game Boy so if someone bought a game for the wrong system they likely could still play it, just without colour.

I'm less concerned with people buying the wrong game as I am with the possibility of lesser interest in the Wii U because people think it's just a new controller.  That is not nearly as exciting as a new system.  A new controller might be just seen as unessential.

[Stogi]

But they aren't selling the controller, they are selling a system with a new controller. You can't buy it separately.

[Chozo Ghost]

But they aren't selling the controller, they are selling a system with a new controller. You can't buy it separately.

Consumers will want to know why they can't just buy the controller separate because they already have the Wii console.

[Adrock]

That's probably when many of them will realize that they have to buy a new console.

I hope at some point we'll be able to buy them separately, at least directly from Nintendo. Accidents (and cats) happen.

[Kairon]

I personally don't think Nintendo's messaging on the Wii U is right where it needs to be. However, I would be surprised if it doesn't improve dramatically between now and launch.

[Stogi]

But they aren't selling the controller, they are selling a system with a new controller. You can't buy it separately.

Consumers will want to know why they can't just buy the controller separate because they already have the Wii console.

Is that before or after they realize it costs $300? And if it's after then Nintendo is winning because perceived valid then shoots through the roof.

[Chozo Ghost]

I wonder how many people on ebay are going to take advantage of consumer ignorance by selling old Wii systems and lying and saying they are actually Wii U's.

[Stogi]

But the controller is the face of the system. If there is no gamepad then there is no system.

Kairon is right, an as campaign will solve all of this and should be expected.

[Ian Sane]

But they aren't selling the controller, they are selling a system with a new controller. You can't buy it separately.

I mean like someone sees a commercial for the Wii U, thinks "eh, I don't really care enough about a new controller for my Wii" and then doesn't look further into it.  They don't try to buy it and find out it's a new system, they just don't care at all because it's just some minor peripheral in their mind.

[Adrock]

I mean like someone sees a commercial for the Wii U, thinks "eh, I don't really care enough about a new controller for my Wii" and then doesn't look further into it.  They don't try to buy it and find out it's a new system, they just don't care at all because it's just some minor peripheral in their mind.

What makes you think they would suddenly care if they knew it was a new console? If they see the controller and aren't impressed enough to find out more, that's no sale whether they think it's for the Wii or a new console.

[Evan_B]

I wonder how many people on ebay are going to take advantage of consumer ignorance by selling old Wii systems and lying and saying they are actually Wii U's.

You view the world quite negatively.