Topic: Episode 237: Shiny New Toy

[Yoshidious]

Some of us have 3DS, and all of us have your provocative emails. Are Nintendo fans too negative about Nintendo?

http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/rfn/25942

With 3DS now available around the world, it makes a perfunctory debut in New Business. James sucks at Street Fighter and frowns upon Ubisoft's lackluster port of Rayman 2, while he and Greg are both enjoying PilotWings Resort. Greg also provides an update on the Japanese Virtual Console and gets very excited (as he should be) for Mega Man X. Jon has been sick lately, but he does bring a report on the PS3 Move Sharpshooter, a high-quality cross between the SNES Super Scope 6 and Wii Zapper. Jonny caps the segment with his thoughts on Beyond Good & Evil HD, and the validity of comparisons to the Zelda franchise.

After the break, we get into somewhat serious territory with an email about negativity among Nintendo fans (particularly your devoted RFN crew). Why are we so critical of Nintendo, and is there anything that still excites us? Further adventures in Listener Mail take us through enhancement devices like Game Genie and Game Shark, one fan's impressions of 3DS and its launch titles, and the unusual backwards-compatibility feature of 3DS.

Finally, we've selected the next RetroActive game: Legend of the Mystical Ninja! This bizarre, fun SNES classic is available everyone on Virtual Console, so we hope you will consider playing along. Join the official forum discussion and let us know what you think!

[TurdFurgy]

I usually listen to this here but, today I'm gonna listen to it on my 3DS.

[NWR_Lindy]

That's pretty awesome.

[pookyrune]

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LittleIrves]

You know what would be amazing?  If you could take 3D pictures and use them as the images for each section of RFN (I don't know the terminology), and when listening to RFN on your 3DS, the 3D image would show up on the top-screen.  That would be amazing.  Make it happen, Greg AKA Editing Wizard.

[lolmonade]

It's funny, I just posted this morning on the 3DS discussion topic the same thing James did regarding seeing my computer monitor and the false effect of 3D on text for my screen.  While I find it funny overall, it makes me wonder if my eyes focusing on the 3DS screen a certain way is bad for my eyes :-/

[happyastoria]

Is it just me or is this whole generation kind of sucky? The only games I fully enjoyed were: SMG 2 (never played the original), Oblivion, and Demon's Souls. Every other game has been pretty meh these last couple of years. In fact, I can count with one hand the amount of games I finished this generation. The Wii doesn't have that many games, but the ones it does have are more interesting than what the HD systems offer. For instance, Lost in Shadow offers a nice little experience.

[Retro Deckades]

happyastoria, I have to agree with you about Lost In Shadow. I just played through the game these past two weeks, and I actually enjoyed every minute of it. I clocked in around 13 hours. I think it's a game Greg would enjoy (despite not being incredibly challenging) and I know he has expressed interest in the title. Maybe he has already tried it. I think it's a good swan song for Hudson.

As far as the question about negativity on RFN, there are a couple of reasons why I don't perceive it as such. Comparatively, I have to say that the RFN podcast (and other NWR podcasts) is the only one these days that actually gets me excited about Nintendo games. To begin with, RFN actually talks about Nintendo games, which is more than I can say about so many others. I would rather listen to someone negatively critique a game instead of put up with ignorance. Secondly, I appreciate the critical nature of the podcast because it is informed and the crew justify their reasons. Whenever someone on another podcast says that a game sucks without proceeding to tell me why they think so, I want to turn it off.

While the podcast may take a negative turn once in a while, I think there is much more to like about the discussion itself.

[Jonnyboy117]

happyastoria, it's very sad that you have enjoyed so few games considering that you apparently own all three major consoles. I think it has been a very good and quite interesting generation, especially with new avenues opening for smaller games to fill in gaps left by big-budget releases. I might not feel that way if I owned any single consoles or only played PC or handheld games, but I'm quite satisfied on a multi-platform basis.


Edit: I just realized you could have played Oblivion on PS3, although it was released much earlier on 360. Still, even 2/3 consoles would give you pretty good coverage on interesting games this generation.

[happyastoria]

Lost in Shadow accomplished what Limbo couldn't. You really do get a sense of isolation when playing the game. It's funny, I made a strong effort to only play that game at night.

[happyastoria]

happyastoria, it's very sad that you have enjoyed so few games considering that you apparently own all three major consoles. I think it has been a very good and quite interesting generation, especially with new avenues opening for smaller games to fill in gaps left by big-budget releases. I might not feel that way if I owned any single consoles or only played PC or handheld games, but I'm quite satisfied on a multi-platform basis.

Jonny, there are -no- games for the PS3. I regret buying that sorry excuse of a gaming machine - what a waste of money. The Wii is fun and the 360 has a lot of interesting games, but none too interesting that I can finish. I exaggerated how many games I finished, but it wasn't many; I can tell you that for certain.

The DS is a different beast all together - it may be the best system ever- and I'm optimistic the 3DS will do the same.

[happyastoria]

happyastoria, I have to agree with you about Lost In Shadow. I just played through the game these past two weeks, and I actually enjoyed every minute of it. I clocked in around 13 hours. I think it's a game Greg would enjoy (despite not being incredibly challenging) and I know he has expressed interest in the title. Maybe he has already tried it. I think it's a good swan song for Hudson.

As far as the question about negativity on RFN, there are a couple of reasons why I don't perceive it as such. Comparatively, I have to say that the RFN podcast (and other NWR podcasts) is the only one these days that actually gets me excited about Nintendo games. To begin with, RFN actually talks about Nintendo games, which is more than I can say about so many others. I would rather listen to someone negatively critique a game instead of put up with ignorance. Secondly, I appreciate the critical nature of the podcast because it is informed and the crew justify their reasons. Whenever someone on another podcast says that a game sucks without proceeding to tell me why they think so, I want to turn it off.

While the podcast may take a negative turn once in a while, I think there is much more to like about the discussion itself.

Don't get me wrong - I love this podcast. RFN may be the best gaming podcast ever! What I love is their honesty. No BS is involved in this podcast what-so-ever. I would echo everything you just said, OneTwenty.

[Killer_Man_Jaro]

I'm fairly sure I said this in the Talkback to the episode with the Wii Report Card feature, but to re-iterate:

There's no denying that the Wii's release schedule has ebbed and flowed throughout its life cycle. There's no denying that the Wii has to deal with technical problems that the HD systems do not. Yet the Wii is the only console I own (unless you count handhelds or the PC). Why? I thought about that and the answer came to me almost word for word as Greg said it: "Nintendo makes the kind of experiences I like with more frequency than anybody else." In fact, I could go beyond that and say that many of the upper-tier Wii exclusives in terms of quality, both from first and third parties, would probably not exist without the Wii. They've created a culture around the platform where it's okay to put a 2D game on a disc, it's okay to not to have bleeding-edge graphics but rather a style that's artsy and unusual, it's okay to be quirky and experimental, and it's okay to resurrect game designs that died in the 80's or 90's. On the PS3 and 360, where publishers take the 'follow the leader' strategy and the emphasis on production values is huge, you would never see these kind of titles - at least, not at retail.

So yeah, the droughts are not pleasant, and the online infrastructure is sub-par, but overall, I'm happy with the Wii.

[happyastoria]

What Jonny said about Galaxy, Sin and Punishment, DKCR, etc. Is the same exact thing I would say about Red Dead redemption, Call of Duty, Halo, Killzone, Uncharted (how can a game so pretty; be so boring and uninspired?) etc.

He his right about Dead Space though- a game with no originality what-so-ever was a pretty fun and engaging experience.

[KDR_11k]

Using a color gradient between pixels IS interpolation. Interpolation means taking two points and calculating values for the points in between from them. Using a straight color gradient is bilinear interpolation.

[Yoshidious]

Using a color gradient between pixels IS interpolation. Interpolation means taking two points and calculating values for the points in between from them. Using a straight color gradient is bilinear interpolation.

I think you may have misunderstood what Jonny was saying with respect to this issue. Jonny was making the point that a DSiXL does not have the same visual "softness" of the 3DS when running original DS games (despite having massive screens) because it does not have to use interpolation as a 3DS does (due to the resolution difference). He then described the interpolation process by referring to the creation of colour gradients--i.e. he did not say they are two different things.

When someone's jumping around from what one device does to what another device doesn't do and so on, it's easy to infer something different from what's being said than what was originally intended, but having edited the episode I can tell you that Jonny seems to be already well aware of the point you raise here.

[KisakiProject]

@ Johnny

I doubt Pikmin 3 will be on Wii.  It will likely be stillborn given the Wii's situation.  I bet Pikmin 3 will be 3DS with AR support.  It would generate the most hype and likely sell more copies.  It probably wouldn't be hard to take whatever Wii planning they have and move it over.  But maybe I'm just hoping.

I wasn't sure of the ghosting was just me in Pilot Wings.  I guess everybody else notices that.  Its annoying.

[Crimm]

About AR support. After the show it hit me I missed one OBVIOUS AR style game.

Greg mentioned Chosoju Mecha MG as a game that could put its control scheme down on the bottom screen and make use of the shiny and now unencumbered top screen. We listed a few other options as well.


I should have thought of it then, but Custom Robo is amazingly perfect for the 3DS.

• Controls on the bottom screen skinned to look like the remotes players in the game use
• Top screen 3D battles
• AR cards used to create the arena and the bots on the ground (remember the custom robos are actually quite small)

It's so stupidly perfect that it has no chance of happening.

[KisakiProject]

I loved Custom Robo on GCN.  The DS one was kinda meh.  I doubt Nintendo will bring this franchise back but we can hope.

Plus I think 3D depth would make the controls alot better.  There definitely issues with the others.

Really the thing that killed me about the DS one was the fact that everyone online had illegal parts so unless you beat the single player there was no point to going online.

[Jonnyboy117]

Custom Robo is a two-button action game; mapping controls to a touch screen-based control panel would drastically change how the game is played and probably what kind of game it is in the first place.

[NWR_insanolord]

I never played the GC version but I absolutely loved the DS Custom Robo. I don't care how they do it as long as they make one for 3DS.

[noname2200]

Enjoyable show as always, especially the discussion about negativity and positivity.  I guess that might explain why my own reaction to the Wii's library is so different than what most bloggers write, since by and large I actually like a lot of the games I've played on the system.

In any case, James mentioned having difficulty with the jetpack in Pilotwings, especially when it comes to momentum and height.  One thing that would remedy much of that is to remember that the jetpack has several intermediary settings, so you don't have to just go up or straight.  I usually just hold the stick about 3/4 of the way up, which results in going perfectly straight without losing any altitude.  The second key thing is to stab the hover button whenever your momentum's carrying you too far, since it's extremely effective at arresting all your movement (perhaps too effective, but then the jetpacks and planes are way too easy in this game for my taste).

One last Pilotwings related note: there's supposedly a pretty sweet bonus if you get a perfect score on each stage, unlocking the bonus vehicle for use on any level, so there's added incentive for score attack fans to shoot for perfects.  It doesn't make up for the lack of wind, or the inexplicable removal of skydiving, but it's something.

[jimwood27]

Thanks for the good words, gentlemen.  Kicking cancer's ass gets difficult from time to time and its nice to hear good things.


I definitely should have used the word 'skepticism' instead of 'negativity' because it is the much more appropriate word to describe you guys.  I felt you defended yourselves quite nicely and very even-handedly, what I expect from your discussions.  What I didnt expect was James leading the positivity train but I sure loved it.


As for Pikmin 3, I cannot wait for this game.  And it had better be for the Wii.  The pointer capabilities would shine with that game.  I dont know why people would want to deal with a 100 Pikmin and any enemies all on that tiny screen at the same time (though it would look cool).

[NWR_insanolord]

I agree with James that it's good that Nintendo learned their lesson about the supply issues on the Wii and ensured that that isn't a problem now with the 3DS, but I'm afraid all the people criticizing Nintendo for not being able to sell out all their launch inventory may mean they won't do that again.

[Chocobo_Rider]

Another great episode, guys.  Listening to RFN is my favorite gaming-related-but-not-actually-gaming activity.

Responses to this week...

1. Agree with "Jim" completely!!  Oh my goodness, buddy.  It's like you spoke my mind.  Shameless plug, there's a website linked in my sig whose small but awesome community is composed of people who don't really feel the same negativity you inquired about.

2. I don't know if the crew just didn't want to burn bridges, but I was interested in someday hearing their take on why nearly all other gaming media treats Nintendo as if Miyamoto ran over their cat.  Also*

3. I completely understand about the nerves, etc surrounding the PAX panel.  It's been discussed in other threads and as far as I'm concerned everything is AOK in regard to that discussion.

However, I wanted to draw attention to the "if PAX had been a month later" concept.  This is an issue that I feel Nintendo faces much more frequently than they should.  In other words, it seems like the general media gets down on Nintendo, then Nintendo does something cool which pleasantly surprises them, and then a week later the media is back to "so? that was totally last week, bro. from now on Nintendo is dooooooomed!"

*I understand people have been let down by Nintendo in many ways over the years.  But it seems like ALL companies make mistakes, and Nintendo is the only company that never gets forgiven about it.  Sixaxis? RROD? Heating issues? Outrageous price tags? The PSP Go? The coveting of the expanded audience.  .... they're allll distant memories, right?  Historical anecdotes with no modern relevance.  Yet, I don't have to go back more than 3 days to find a major gaming media site making "waggle" jabs.

4. It's true.  Third party support on the Wii has not been as strong as on the HD twins.  No one seems to have trouble blaming Nintendo for this - no HD, clunky friend codes, less horsepower - my god, how can 3rd parties be expected to make a good game under these awful conditions?!?!

Yet, no one finds the courage to hold 3rd parties' feet to the fire about putting their top tier games on the Wii.  SF4 can run on the 3DS but not the Wii?  RE4 was brilliant on the Wii, but RE5 is out of the question?  Given RE4, the Dead Space Wii game couldn't POSSIBLY have been a 3rd person shooter? Really?

In fact, whenever 3rd parties DO put quality games on the Wii, they are bombarded with "why isn't this on the PS3/60?"  And that is considered a completely legitimate question.  For a while I was closely following interviews with HighVoltage about Conduit 2 and I gotta say they fielded that question in EVERY interview.
I bet third party games would perform better at market if the media didn't make each quality Wii game seem like such a tragic waste until an HD port might smile down upon us!

5. Totally agree with Greg on long-standing companies and their choice in game content.  The saddest part is (and also the biggest the reason why Nintendo still rarely ever has me worried) is that when these companies DO try to bring back classic franchises or classic approaches to gaming, the result is often some grotesque deformity of the original.  To paraphrase from The Monkey's Paw: "Bionic Commando was caught in the machinery!"