Topic: Why are people still whining that there aren't enough games?

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

ps3 doesn't even have a StarFox Adventures.

[GoldenPhoenix]

The PS3 situation is not that great. It has like 3 or 4 exclusives that are somewhat decent and the rest are a mix of multi platform games and sometimes even those are inferior to the 360 one. PS3 needs a big kick in the butt which will probably start with MGS, but beyond that, I'm not sure what else there is (Whatever happened to LittleBigPlanet?).

[DAaaMan64]

It says Fall 2008 but has been delayed several times.  Although I doubt it'll go past this winter.

[animecyberrat]

I don't think Sony cares one flying %$&* how the PS3 does on it's own merits. All they wanted to do was get BRD is peoples living rooms and they pulled that off with flying colors.


As for Nintendo, and their 3rd party "problem" I still have mixed feelings. Truth is yes there are a lot of games for Wii, and 360 that interest a lot of people. Truth is Wii has a ton more 3rd party support than GC had, truth is *I* am more than satisfied with VC and WiiWare is looking to keep me interested enough to keep the Wii hooked up and powered on regularly.

Truth is also that there are tons of games and genres NOT represented on Wii and I think they are on their way but until they get here a lot of what is on Wii doesn't interest *me* and Mario's comments are laughable because taste and preference are both subjective and a lot of Wii games just don't seam "amazing" to me. But There are plenty of games that do interest me and a lot of "fun and interesting" things being done for the system, but there are very few of the hard core action games, very few fighting games, next to no RPG's and only a couple of bear em ups.

 I like games like Brawl and Metroid, I really do, but I also like they kinds of games that Wii isn't getting. My favorite game series of all time is MK, and looks like Wii is getting shafted when it comes to that. Not to mention the lack of other fighting games. So far there are a couple of DBZ games and a couple of Naruto games. I don't care for Naruto and one DBZ game is the same as another.


I personally will be more satisfied once games like that Conduit and Disaster start showing up. See where I am torn is event hough GC support was lacking I never had trouble finding games to play, Wii is getting heaps more games, but most of them are games I didn't care for on PS and I don't care for now.


Sad thing is there are already too many games on Wii I don't have the money for so I am honestly ok with the gaps in releases cuz it gives me more time to come up with the money to buy the games I want.

[BigJim]

But then we've essentially abandoned the issue and said, "well it's subjective!" I mean, the same criticism can, and has, been levelled at the XBox 360.

I don't really think it's abandoned, there's just no benchmark that's going to resolve anything specific (as sort of demonstrated by anime's post). Acknowledgment is progress over some of the thickheadednesses that hasn't even accepted the existence of the debate before as it relates to Wii.


Also, nice post, anime. I feel very much the same way.

[Nick DiMola]

Well if we want to say that certain genres aren't seeing the coverage that they should on the Wii, I will completely agree with that. But to say that there aren't a bunch of fantastic games on the Wii being offered by 3rd parties, that's just wrong.

As far as certain genres not seeing representation on the Wii (Fighting, RPG, FPS), I say give it time. Unfortunately the PS3, due to the PS2's success and the graphical power of the PS3, it will likely be the home to many of the best RPGs. FPSs seem to have found a home on the 360, but I think this has the most potential to pick up on the Wii due to the superior control scheme. Fighting games have really been on the decline lately, with only a few key franchises still existing and releasing games consistently. The Wii will probably never see good representation of fighting games because of it's lack of graphical prowess in comparison to the other systems.

There isn't much to say other than that. If Nintendo made a choice to included more horsepower in the Wii I think it would have been more successful with the "hardcore gamer" crowd, but apparently Nintendo felt there was more progress and money to be made with casuals, and clearly they were right. So what do you do if you are one of these people? Simple, you either expand your tastes or you buy a 360/PS3 to complement your Wii. Maybe next generation things will be different because Nintendo will have no choice but to bump the graphics to at least the 360's quality. But for now, you are going to have to grin and bear it.

[DAaaMan64]

Didn't we all already know the Wii was there to compliment complement other systems? Or vice versa depending on who you are?

I enjoy the Wii a lot, way more than most of the systems in the past. Just look at my library, Mario Kart Wii is my 29 game    That is easily the fastest growth rate of any of my gaming libraries. AND none of the games suck. haha really great.

[Nick DiMola]

Didn't we all already know the Wii was there to compliment complement other systems? Or vice versa depending on who you are?

I thought so, but apparently not as per this entire thread.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"As far as certain genres not seeing representation on the Wii (Fighting, RPG, FPS)"

Oh look at that, the 3 genres responsible for making the current industry stale, risky, and fragile.

I thought Wii was here to combat stale gaming, yet stale gaming is apparently what the hardcore betrayed n-gamers want.

[Nick DiMola]

I enjoy the Wii a lot, way more than most of the systems in the past. Just look at my library, Mario Kart Wii is my 29 game    That is easily the fastest growth rate of any of my gaming libraries. AND none of the games suck. haha really great.

Agreed and ...

"As far as certain genres not seeing representation on the Wii (Fighting, RPG, FPS)"

Oh look at that, the 3 genres responsible for making the current industry stale, risky, and fragile.

I thought Wii was here to combat stale gaming, yet stale gaming is apparently what the hardcore betrayed n-gamers want.

Agreed

The only other library I've had grow as quick as the Wii's is the DS, go figure.

[Ian Sane]

Oh look at that, the 3 genres responsible for making the current industry stale, risky, and fragile.

I thought Wii was here to combat stale gaming, yet stale gaming is apparently what the hardcore betrayed n-gamers want.

This is such a typical attitude of Nintendo fans that I find very annoying and I don't relate to.  I think it stems from the N64 and Gamecube years.  Certain genres are not represented practically at all and thus it's decided they're not worth having anyway.  It's like a weird devotion.

Every genre is worth having.  A good console provides options.  The guys who were going nutso over GTA and Madden probably weren't playing R-Type Final.  Hell that game was a sequel to series in a genre that's no longer very popular.  It was a high quality title of clearly limited appeal.  But the PS2 still had it along with mass-market games.

The Wii, if it's to be even compared with the best consoles of all time, should have that kind of variety.  No genres left out.  No target demographics neglected.  Something for everybody doens't mean Wii Fit and Wii Sports.  It means that everyone willing to play a videogame can find some stuff that really fits their tastes.  Nintendo NEVER gets this anymore.  They think "something for everyone" means "everything for everyone".  They fill a lineup full of games that anyone COULD like instead of a variety of games that certain groups of people absolutely will like, even if no one else does.

And why does a genre automatically need to be stale?  There's no rule.  Nintendo is one who has this narrowed minded view that anyone who isn't down with non-games wants the same crap again and again.  That's bullsh!t.  It's too black and white.  It's too extreme.  What's to stop someone from innovating with a fighting game?  Just because Capcom won't or SNK won't doesn't mean no one CAN.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Ian your argument isn't even true for 360 and PS3 which really neglect the casual market, more so than the Wii neglects the "hardcore" market. Every system has a philosophy and games that they "specialize" in. We are in an era where companies can't slap together a game for a relatively small budget like the NES and SNES era (to a certain extent).

[ShyGuy]

I already have three games in my need-to-buy-for-the-Wii backlog.

I hope we have a bit of a game drought this summer.

[EasyCure]

Just because Capcom won't or SNK won't doesn't mean no one CAN.

This is just my opinion but i think the problem is that no one HAS. If it weren't for Soul Caliber on GC being $20 bucks and having Link as a character I wouldnt of had the desire to buy a game since the SNES era.
SFII:T was awesome, MK3 was pretty good and Killer Instinct was a must have.

Everything after that seemed like a step backwards to me. Virtua Fighter and Tekken were too slow, it just didnt make sense to me. It's like an action movie: Would you go see one where all the martial arts moves are slow and cool but dull blocks/dogdes/reversals, or would you want to see something fast paced with people performing sh*t you've never seen at a lightning speed?

Then the 2d fighters started coming back into the mainstream with the SNK and Marvel Vs Capcom games but by then they all felt too redundant. Pick up any one of those and input down-to-forward + (button) and you'll perform a move you've seen a million times before with a new coat of paint and some new over the top character doing it. The Combo systems became ridiculous as well as those ultimate/team moves in the Marvel Vs Capcom game. You'd think Cyclops shooting a beam covering most of the screen would be a KO to your opponent but nope; he blocks what would of been a 72hit combo...wtf?

Then you had things like Soul Calibur which inroduced weapon-based combat but by then i was just burnt out on all of it. It all just got old so fast. I tried to get excited for the new MK games that wanted to introduce on the fly martial art technique changes but i couldnt.

I'd hate to say it but Smash Bros  games are the only "fighters" i care for now (not counting a few retro games of SF and KI) and thats because they didn't follow a formula. I remember first reading about it in an old NP mag and thinking "oh god, another "X vs X" type game until more information came out on it. The second i read "4 player simultaneaus matches" my eyes lit up thinking "ok.... this is getting interesting." Then the end product comes out and the mechanics were so a breath of fresh air.

Now i'm not saying Nintendo is the only company who CAN re-invent the fighters, nor am i saying they're the only ones who HAVE. I'm just saying that to me, who used to be a fan of fighters back in the day when you'd go to the arcades to see whats new and challenge that kid who's still on a single quarter, Nintendo with Smash Bros. has been the only series to do something to catch my attention. To me every thing else really does feel stale.

Before i end this, i'd like to give an honorable mention to the DBZ game that came out at/around wii's launch. I'd never been into DBZ so i've never played the fighting games in that series, but it was pretty unique and had me hooked the few hours i played it at a friends house. Too bad i dont care for the (dbz) series enough to want to purchase the game.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"This is such a typical attitude of Nintendo fans that I find very annoying and I don't relate to."

You forgot to acknowledge it's also the state of the industry.

"No genres left out.  No target demographics neglected."
"And why does a genre automatically need to be stale?  There's no rule."
"What's to stop someone from innovating with a fighting game?"

I don't remember Nintendo saying "no, your popular genre is not allowed on our system";
I also don't see 3rd parties stepping up to fill those genre gaps (you know, historically, that's WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO, CUZ THAT'S HOW THEY MADE NAMES FOR THEMSELVES IN THE FIRST PLACE);
Despite what a console maker "neglects", it's the paying customers who do the real neglecting;
I remember reading something about genre saturation, when the market is saturated, only the blockbuster "genre kings" consistently get the big sales, while the 2nd-rank copycats fall into low-sales quicksand and obscurity, hurting the bottom lines of the publishers;
Aside from genre kings, the market pretty much has its fill, and collective sales/attention decline sharply after;
To the play-it-safe 3rd parties out there, a disinterested market is enough to stop them from "innovating" (or at least halt the yearly iterations);
To the play-it-safe 3rd parties out there, "emerging markets/genres" probably make better business opportunities, adding more fuel to the "leave those old franchises behind" approach to profitability.

Luckily for Nintendo, they not just own, but REVIVED several genre kings, AND they're the master of the emerging market.

Gaming is doomed.

Eat it.

"I'd hate to say it but Smash Bros  games are the only "fighters" i care for now."

hur

[Kairon]

Now i'm not saying Nintendo is the only company who CAN re-invent the fighters, nor am i saying they're the only ones who HAVE. I'm just saying that to me, who used to be a fan of fighters back in the day when you'd go to the arcades to see whats new and challenge that kid who's still on a single quarter, Nintendo with Smash Bros. has been the only series to do something to catch my attention. To me every thing else really does feel stale.

Ironic isn't it?

[EasyCure]

Now i'm not saying Nintendo is the only company who CAN re-invent the fighters, nor am i saying they're the only ones who HAVE. I'm just saying that to me, who used to be a fan of fighters back in the day when you'd go to the arcades to see whats new and challenge that kid who's still on a single quarter, Nintendo with Smash Bros. has been the only series to do something to catch my attention. To me every thing else really does feel stale.

Ironic isn't it?

Very.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Stale Oreos are soft.  I like.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Wow, Pro has a serious response and it is GOOD.

[EasyCure]

oreos are seirous business

[KDR_11k]

Of course the hardcore wants stale genres, how do you think those genres got stale in first place? There was a lot of demand for those genres and people didn't care how similar a game was to the previous one so publishers delivered what the market bought.

[Spak-Spang]

KDR makes a valid, and highly cyincal point.

We are forced to remember that although gaming is an artform, it is also a business...and games that sell get sequels.  Innovative genres get ripped off and copied, and anything deemed risky isn't worth the chance in most developers and publishers eyes.

It is just like movies, we get mostly crappy romantic comedies, and really cheesy action films, because that is what sells in the theaters.  And truthfully, would you rather see King Kong or Star Wars in a theater or Magnolia?  King Kong/Star Wars will have a bigger effect on the big screen, while the superior film Magnolia will be just as great at home.

And this is basically the analogy of the Wii vs. Xbox 360 and PS3.  I do not believe there are very many games that could not be made for the Wii that are being made for the Xbox 360 or PS3.  Yes, sacrifices would be made, but the core experience of the game would be the same...and perhaps gameplay even better. 

Yet, as a developer and a consumer, look at what can be accomplished with the higher graphical capabilities of 360 and PS3.  They are stunning, and if you had to choice of which version you would play, it would always be the nicer looking and sounding of the two.  So the Wii misses out on some of the big games like Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare, and such...however we are getting more original game designs and indie games, because of cost factors, and innovations of the Wii itself.  Basically, the Magnolia's of the game world will be just as enjoyable on the Wii if not more than on the big screen. 

[KDR_11k]

And let's not forget that art and fun are not related. A game that breaks with all conventions, inovates everywhere, etc still isn't necessarily fun while a generic sequel can be great fun.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

"There was a lot of demand for those genres and people didn't care how similar a game was"
They do care (in terms of what's actually purchased).  They flock to the genre kings, and the rest of the games get you $4 cash back at GameStop.

[ShyGuy]

A site called Lost Garden had an excellent four part article about game genres a few years back that I think nailed the problem with the hard core audience today.

http://lostgarden.com/2005/05/game-genre-lifecycle-part-i.html