Topic: Nintendo doesn't listen to western devs after all (EGM Iwata/Miyamoto interview)

[IceCold]

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Damn! I actually prefer the original idea of having an otherwise normal controller with a detachable remote for use when needed. I think such a design would remain innovative but would result in less games that use motion control just because it's there even though it makes no sense to (ie: Zelda). Dang NCL guy! It's his fault the controller is short on buttons.

Um.. ever wonder how an FPS would be played with the shell and a remote stuck in?

[Ian Sane]

"Um.. ever wonder how an FPS would be played with the shell and a remote stuck in?"

Like how console FPS games were controlled before.

[Deguello]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
"Um.. ever wonder how an FPS would be played with the shell and a remote stuck in?"

Like how console FPS games were controlled before.

and hopefully you oppose this, right?

Seriously, even after playing that pile of glitch Red Steel I can't go back to some Console FPS.  Dual analog is almost... archaic now.

[ShyGuy]

console FPS game control sucked 99% of the time before.

[Requiem]

1% = N64 FPS / Time splitters

[ShyGuy]

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Originally posted by: Requiem
1% = N64 FPS / Time splitters

QFT

[Ian Sane]

"and hopefully you oppose this, right?"

Only when the game was designed as if it was a PC FPS.  When a FPS is actually designed for a controller, instead of a mouse/keyboard and then shoe-horned into a controller, it usually works fine.  Personally I think the PC way of controlling an FPS needlessly complicates things by focusing too much on aiming and less on visceral action.  Doom plays like a first person Contra and that's why it's so awesome.

[Hostile Creation]

It seems mantidor caught Ian-itis.  Which means taking one small detail (usually a PR statement) and blowing it totally out of proportion.  If we weren't their focus anymore, mantidor, we wouldn't be getting Super Mario Galaxy, Metroid Prime 3, Twilight Princess, Super Smash Brothers Brawl, Starfox DS, the Virtual Console, Yoshi Island 2, and god only knows what else.  WiiSports is really the only Wii game that really focuses (as in more than usual) on the nongamer crowd.
So seriously.  Stop whining about nothing.

Also, dual analog was archaic from the day it was created.

[Requiem]

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Also, dual analog was archaic from the day it was created.

Yes, but now EVERYBODY will know it!

[mantidor]

why do I have to repeat it again? Im not angry and whining about the non-gamer aproach, Im just not a supporter of it, thats all. I don't know why people got to the same conclusion, I was just commenting about it, not arguing against it, its perfectly underestandable why Nintendo is doing it and so far I don't see a problem with it.

[MaryJane]

wii = me

Traditional Japanese businesses run their businesses internally.

When Nintendo takes a suggestion from western developers it would be the equivalent of... i don't know something that doesn't usually happen or make sense in a situation similar to this one.

bring on the games and non-games alike.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: mantidor Im very dissapointed with Nintendo's attitude, I don't see why I should root for a company that tells us in our face we are not their focus anymore.

Actions speak louder than words, and unless Nintendo has an assload of unannounced games which they didn't bother to mention at E3, then their talk of "non-gamer games" is just that: talk.

The Wii will launch with one of the best GAMER lineups a Nintendo console will ever have: Zelda, Metroid, Wario Ware, Red Steel (a non-game, it ain't), a FF:CC, a Dragon Quest, a Madden, likely a Rayman game, and several others.

The only game in this entire lineup which holds true to the mantra of "non-game" is Wii Sports, and that may very well be a pack-in with the console to demonstrate the Wiimote functionality.

I'm not saying it's a good thing that Nintendo is preaching one thing but doing another, but don't give them crap about catering to non-gamers when nothing could be further from the truth.

Hell, I'm still stunned to not have seen a Nintendogs Wii at E3, the game which, without a doubt, was the DS's biggest "non-game" and the one which truly pushed it forward into the market as a "non-gaming" device (until the arrival of the Training games later on to continue the trend).

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Smash_Brother

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Originally posted by: mantidor Im very dissapointed with Nintendo's attitude, I don't see why I should root for a company that tells us in our face we are not their focus anymore.

Actions speak louder than words, and unless Nintendo has an assload of unannounced games which they didn't bother to mention at E3, then their talk of "non-gamer games" is just that: talk.

The Wii will launch with one of the best GAMER lineups a Nintendo console will ever have: Zelda, Metroid, Wario Ware, Red Steel (a non-game, it ain't), a FF:CC, a Dragon Quest, a Madden, likely a Rayman game, and several others.

The only game in this entire lineup which holds true to the mantra of "non-game" is Wii Sports, and that may very well be a pack-in with the console to demonstrate the Wiimote functionality.

I'm not saying it's a good thing that Nintendo is preaching one thing but doing another, but don't give them crap about catering to non-gamers when nothing could be further from the truth.

Hell, I'm still stunned to not have seen a Nintendogs Wii at E3, the game which, without a doubt, was the DS's biggest "non-game" and the one which truly pushed it forward into the market as a "non-gaming" device (until the arrival of the Training games later on to continue the trend).

I really think nintendo's "non-gamer" strategy more so reflects how the user interacts with the games. As of now the current generation of systems have way too many buttons for a newcomer to get into (especially those 30 and above), and it scares them off. With that said, I feel that shortly after launch we will start getting more of the "non-game" games but I doubt they will overtake traditional playing games, it will probaly end up being a situation like DS.  

[nemo_83]

they're listening right now, hide!



some times I feel like they don't listen, like they live in a bubble of yes men (and thus we get ideas like Wii24 and friend codes instead of universal friends list, and we get GBA connectivity, or simply the choice of the name PrePackagedPeckerJoke, I mean Wee which some how in their minds describes the play mechanics of their console).

Nintendo likes to learn lessons the hard way (N64 cart).  

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: nemo_83
they're listening right now, hide!



some times I feel like they don't listen, like they live in a bubble of yes men (and thus we get ideas like Wii24 and friend codes instead of universal friends list, and we get GBA connectivity, or simply the choice of the name PrePackagedPeckerJoke, I mean Wee which some how in their minds describes the play mechanics of their console).

Nintendo likes to learn lessons the hard way (N64 cart).

I'm sorry but the validity of someone's arguments goes out the window now when I hear them still mocking the name with juvenile jokes (heaven forbid it also referencing the "we"). But I'll attempt to overcome that mental block for this post, I think Wii24 is interesting, and I think we should wait before we come to any judgments regarding its quality. I'll admit the friend code thing is bothersome, but once again I want to hear more about how it will be implemented into Wi. Before you doom NIntendo, how about waiting a bit until more is known about their features!

[Kairon]

I personally believe that Nintendo's just the sort of company that would rather fail because they followed their ideals instead of failing because they followed their marketting department's focus groups.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Spak-Spang]

I think the logic is flawed.  

You are basically saying Nintendo doesn't listen to American developers because they didn't talk to Retro about the analog attachment to the Wiipointer?  Umm...all that proves is that Nintendo didn't talk to Retro.

I believe the fact that Nintendo has been going to key developers both in the West and Japan to demonstrate using the Wiipointer in games, and helping spark new ideas by helping create sample game ideas shows a huge commitment from Nintendo to all game developers.

Do you actually believe Sony or Microsoft goes up to all the American and Japanese developers and talks to them.  What do you want in our next system.  What do you really need to make games better?  It is highly unlikely.  

What really makes us perceive Nintendo as doing such, is Nintendo's drastically different philosophy for gaming.  Sony and Microsoft have pushed for gaming to become mature games.  This has worked because the original gaming audience has matured along with the industry...and they have introduced new people to games.  Younger ages want to be like their older brothers or what not, so they begin to play mature games at an older age.  A great business model I guess.

Except it has no responsibility.  I am not one to censor gaming, or say that video games cause violence.  However, violent images and actions do affect the brain.  This should ultimately be a parents responsibility to watch over their kids.  But, with some systems, it is really hard to find kids games that are equally appropriate and fun for older gamers.

Nintendo has always been about making games everyone can enjoy.  Despite Mario being a cartoon character, his games are sophisticated and includes the depth that any gamer can enjoy.  A simplistic control system that younger and older gamers can actually play.  The same tries to be true with every Nintendo published game.  Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, F-Zero, Wario Ware, Zelda, Metroid, Kirby, ect.

Nintendo has basically said.  We will ALWAYS try to reach the broadest market with our games, and truly provide family entertainment.  This noble idea has led to identity crisis of a sort because compared to the other systems, Nintendo's image just gets lost to just for kids.  Its sad.

So now we complain Nintendo doesn't listen to the American gamers.  Nintendo doesn't want the typical gamer market anymore.  Nintendo is just for kids.  Its really false.  And we also say that Nintendo isn't supporting American 3rd parties or 3rd parties in general.  Well the truth is...the gamers and the 3rd parties aren't understanding Nintendo's vision because they want these supposedly more mature games...but the truth is they have never undestood Nintendo's stance...and have already missed some very mature and sophisticated games on Nintendo because of ignorance.

[Hostile Creation]

Yeah, the idea coming from NCL rather than Retro really means nothing at all.  It's not that Nintendo isn't listening to Western devs.  It's that the Japanese guys had the ideas, and the western devs didn't even think of it.  Which only proves the other point, really.

[Ceric]

I personally find that a lot of technology is developed over here in the west and then the East finds it a home or refines it.  In the end I can say it is safe to say that someone outside of the normal Nintendo developement click pushed for this broad of vision because they honestly believed that in the long run this will work out better then a splitty standard controller.  I have to agree.  

[IceCold]

Also, I forgot to mention - if you recall, when we first heard about Red Steel, Ubisoft said that Nintendo showed them the controller before E3 2005. I was pleasantly surprised by this, as it was probably shown as soon as it was finalised. This shows that Nintendo is accommodating Western developers much better - at E3 2005 we didn't know anything at all about the remote. Claiming that it is a fantasy simply because Retro itself didn't develop the analogue attachment is misguided; something like this shows clearly that the opposite is true.

[Kairon]

WELL... I think Ubi only found out about the specifics of how the controller worked (beyond the idea of "motion-sensing") around August 2005. They surely heard of the motion sensing at E3 2005, but the controller wasn't at all near-final at that time.

But yeah, they knew of the whole "motion-sensing" aspect at E3 2005.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[majortom1981]

Actually. I submitted this as news but it never got posted.

Nintendo has a patent on  a nintendo cell phone that plays games. IT was just granted to them

[Requiem]

And that pertians to this discussion -- how?

[Kairon]

This interview sheds new light on Nintendo's relationship with Ubisoft over Red Steel:

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The first contact between Ubisoft & Nintendo was at E3 2005. At that time Nintendo wanted a third party team to work on a first person view game for the Wii. We only got basic info about the concept of the pad, the capture device & the relative power of the console. No real technical data were supplied at that stage.

Full Interview

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com