Topic: Super Smash Bros. Brawl

[Pale]

I don't know if you were implying this Spak, but Jill from Drill Dozer is first party all the way.

[Smash_Brother]

Kojima "begged" Nintendo to get Snake into the game.

I think it will give Nintendo fans more of a reason to appreciate the character than it will give Snake fans a reason to buy SSBB.

I'm sure it'll help from both sides, but the character will get exposure from players who were going to buy Brawl anyway: the Nintendo fans.

If anything, we might see a sales spike in MGS:TS for GC (from 0 to something).

[Athrun Zala]

Quote
Originally posted by: Smash_Brother
If anything, we might see a sales spike in MGS:TS for GC (from 1 to something).

fixed (I have the game afterall )

[Dirk Temporo]

Oh yeah, about Capcom:

Viewtiful Joe>Megaman. He would fit so much more than Megaman would.

[Luigi Dude]

But the Viewtiful Joe series isn't very popular.  Megaman is a videogame icon who's known by millions, Viewtiful Joe is know by a small group of us hardcore gamers and that's it.

[Spak-Spang]

Pale:  No I knew that Jill was first party...I just didn't know how well received the game was...and I think I was focusing on new female characters for the game.

Luigi Dude:  Actually Viewtiful Joe is very popular...you don't get an animated television show based off your game, unless there is some popularity surrounding it.  

I am not comparing Viewtiful Joe to Mega Man though.  Mega Man is a iconic now.  I beat you can show the character Mega Man around and people will recognize the character even if they don't play video games.  They may not be able to name the character, but they will recognize it.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Athrun Zala fixed (I have the game afterall )

Oh, I meant right now, like the present sales of MGS on the Cube.

I hope lots bought it. I've bought it twice now.

Great game, it's just that the director happens to make Tingle look straight and serious.

[Smash_Brother]

From the Sept Nintendo Power:

Michel Ancel on Rayman Raving Rabbids and Wii: “(Wii) It’s so different from the other consoles that we decided to reconsider everything…We believe in the Wii and building gameplay around the controller. So now we are designing Raving Rabbids specifically (It’s an EXCLUSIVE!) for the Wii. It’s not just an adaptation. It’s a very special project, because this is really a revolution for us. Now we have to focus on one version - the Wii version.�

That cinches it. If Ubi contributes a character to SSBB, it's going to be Rayman.

In the interest of this news, I rented Rayman 3 and I have to say it ain't bad at all.

I have no IDEA how the hell it got an "E" rating because not only are some of the characters making off-color jokes but there's some blatant sexual innuendo to boot. The game is loaded with voices, with every character having something to say, and it's there that you'll find these jokes.

The game is relatively fun, as well, though the plot hangs together a bit on the loose side. It was an all-console release which would explain why it lacks some polish, but there have been a few gameplay segments which make me sit forward on the couch and grin with excitement (like the between level warps were you jump rapidly from track to track on a snowboard and when you take control of a "mech" of sorts and press the A button to stop on enemies).

The camera is pretty loose, as is the control scheme, but overall, it's a pretty fun game thus far. Now that I know a bit more of Rayman's story and his abilities, I wouldn't mind seeing him in SSBB, especially if Ubi is willing to make Rabids a Wii exclusive.

Rayman has always seemed like a background mascot to me: I never knew much about him, only that he was kinda "there". Now that I've tried one of his games, he seems like he'd fit right into SSBB and he'd likely give SSB fans more of a reason to pick up Rabids (which I'm guessing will be quite good as well).

I have more faith in games which are single console. Aside from the fact that Rabids being designed for the Wii will no doubt control better overall, I've never seen a game be all console and not have it's quality suffer from it somewhat. It's only logical: having to spread your resources over three different architectures cannot help but divert resources from polishing the game.

It's this lack of polish I see in Rayman 3. Not only would Rabids likely be better graphically if it's exclusive, but I'm betting we'll see an overall better quality to the game.

Also, I wouldn't be surprised if it was the inclusion of Rayman in SSBB which would push Ansel and Ubi over the edge when it came to making it a Wii exclusive. Nintendo knew that adding Marth and Roy to SSBM would garner interest in FE in the states (and it did).

I should have seen this coming, honestly. Not too long ago, I was pointing out that Nintendo is making more of an effort to reach out to 3rd parties when it comes to supporting their consoles, with Iwata being the diplomat that he is. At E3 press conferences past, it would have been highly unlikely that Nintendo would have a 3rd party (Ubi) up on stage presenting a game.

No doubt, putting Rayman into SSBB would have enough of an effect that hardcore Nintendo fans would be more likely to pick up Rabids. It's kind of Nintendo's way of saying "These guys are our friends, too. Try their games." and continues to bolster 3rd party support on the Wii.

[KDR_11k]

Rayman was released on the PC, PS, Jaguar and Saturn. But then again Snake had his first appearance on the MSX...

[Smash_Brother]

I know, but I think Ubi's current support bodes quite well for Rayman to appear in SSBB.

I'm considering more the here and now than past. Rayman has appeared on a few Nintendo consoles and Ubi and Nintendo have apparently become rather close.

[Smoke39]

I like the idea of Rayman in SSBB.  He could have his old-school boomerang fist thingy.  And helicopter hair. O:

Capcom should give us Harmen Smith.

[Smash_Brother]

On the subject, I'd like to see a character from either Ouendan or Elite Beat Agents.

In fact, I was kinda hoping Captain Kai would also be the leader of the EBAs because then he could be in both games and all his attacks would look like dance/cheers.

If you haven't played Ouendan, do yourself a favor and give EBA a try when it's released: the games are AWESOME.

[Spak-Spang]

Hehe.

HOw about an Odama item...where the giant ball falls on the field and rolls one direction or the other Smashing everything in its site.  That could be fun...and quite scary.  

[vudu]

Does anyone have a video (or a link to one) of all the character entrances to the original Super Smash Bros?  For the life of me I can't remember what they look like, and I don't have my N64 handy.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Snakes doesn't fit.  He's just plain ugly.

Jill Valentine would already fit cuz she already has a silly moves arsenal from the VS. Capcom games.  Summon zombies and launch rockets! HOOOOOOOOOOOOO

VJ would not fit on a gameplay basis.  His gameplay style is too distinct and flexible to force SSB mechanics onto.  It'd hurt him.

Simon Belmont would simply be badass.  He's look into his mirror all day and pose and stuff.

and stuff and stuff and stuff

oh, and Mega Man, a MEGA MAN X TRANSFORMATION SUPER CHARGO BLASTO would be his super move.  Or some ultimo Beat + Rush combo =D

[Dirk Temporo]

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666
VJ would not fit on a gameplay basis.  His gameplay style is too distinct and flexible to force SSB mechanics onto.

Huh? VJ plays exactly like SSBM Adventure Mode version 2.

[Spak-Spang]

I don't get how Viewtiful Joe doesn't fit either.

Yes, we would have to figure out a means to balance his Slowmo, and Fast movements, but it is possible.

For instance:  Slowmo could be used when he blocks.  Instead of a shield, you see him doing his awesome slowmotion dodges.

Zoom In: Could be used when he throws someone, his size gets slightly bigger (not mushroom bigger) and it shows the special throw attack.

Fast Forward:  This could be one of his special moves.  Like Bowser he can trigger it and untrigger it at the push of a button, but it is timed how long you can use it...and if you use it too long you turn into regular Joe, and lose that power.

Actually, the whole idea of incredible power but balanced with the chance of turning into Regular Joe would make a great character for Smash Brothers Brawl.  It would be something new.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

1.  Joe pretty much punches and kicks without restrictions.  The frames are fast, the moves end as quickly as they begin, for easy enduring chaining.  Practically all historic SSB characters don't have this luxury.

2.  He punches AND kicks.  that's 2 buttons.

3.  His special moves are "selfish" and require the game attention to center on HIM, and his VFX abilities work well not simply because Joe gets snazzy powers, but because Slow & Mach-Speed (the 2 important ones) AFFECT THE GAME WORLD.  VJ is about taking "center stage," literally, which does not fall in line with the "common canvas" nature of SSB.

I personally think Joe's gameplay is too defined and elaborate to fit into SSB's rules.  Crippled novelty versions of the abilities would be weak.

Particularly Slow-Mo.  That ability is used SO MUCH throughout the game that it's awkward to not use it, and it's awkward to rely on VJ's standard, non-enhanced moves.

The grand scheme works for Mario, Link, Samus, Belmonts, Mega Men, etc. cuz mechanically they haven't CHANGED MUCH since their golden days.

But Joe's not your classic walk-jump-attack 8-bit character, as is the mold which govern's SSB's core mechanics.  Joe(including the game itself) was designed to go beyond that with substantial twists.  The dependence on his special abilities RATHER than his core/default abililties sets him apart from the classics.

He'd end up like Ganondorf -- stripped of his flare (why must you deprive him of his pieces of flare?), rebuilt, and much less exciting.

WEAKNESS.

[Smash_Brother]

Quote
Originally posted by: Professional 666 He'd end up like Ganondorf -- stripped of his flare (why must you deprive him of his pieces of flare?), rebuilt, and much less exciting.

I'm glad someone agrees with me on that.

The "Great King of Evil" getting his ass kicked by Pikachu is fundamentally wrong.

[Spak-Spang]

Professional 666:  I think you have to let the game how each character is crafted, not the character define each game.  

Smash Brothers is a game that has taken several different game design structures and characters and somehow managed to get them all to meld together into a beautiful fighter.  I could use the exact same logic and say Pikachu, Marth, Roy, Blue Falcon, and more shouldn't be in Smash Brothers...because their original incarnations were never meant for Smash Brother type designed game.

I took the concepts behind what made Viewtiful Joe an interesting character and morphed it into something that fit Smash Brothers.

For instance:  You don't have to have a kick and punch button.  You can develop kicks and punches with the single attack button.

The SlowMo can be to represent his shield as he dodges attacks in style.  A variation of the same skill he had in the game, but done in a new manner.  Basically, he slows down to dodge, but the action doesn't....or the action around his frame does.  Simple.

Fast Forward can be  a special move that gives him a temporary speed and strength boost.

Viewtiful Joe can be done.  He would be different, but still Joe.  You just aren't willing to think outside the box...which is totally neccessary when creating putting existing characters in new situations.

Just look at Solid Snake, do you actually believe he will play in the same manner or even style as he would in his own games?

[Smash_Brother]

If we got a character from Capcom, it'll probably be Megaman. He fits into the mold of the "mascot" and has been around much, much longer.

He and Nintendo have a longer history as well, though I'm not 100% sure we'll see a Capcom character.

[KDR_11k]

Joe can't use his special moves in Red Hot Rumble AFAIK (only played the preview build at the GC Leipzig), they are only available through powerups.

[Spak-Spang]

Oh we will get a Capcom Character.  I feel it in my bones.  Capcom will have some Smash'N Love.

[NinGurl69 *huggles]

Viewtiful Joe is what it is because it was designed outside the box to begin with.  I say putting Joe in SSBB is shoving him INTO a box.

See, I can see Snake working really well cuz there ISN'T MUCH TO TAKE AWAY from him.  He's another "classic," who does things at a "normal" pace with a straightforward mechanics.  He doesn't rely on complex chains of moves.   Move, duck.  Move, punch-punch-kick.  Move, drop explosive.  Move, toss grenade.  Hell he's been closely tied to the ground in his past 3D incarnations, and that makes him worlds simpler than 3D Mario (tho I always thought MGS's running/ducking mechanics need an overhaul cuz it's quite stiff if Twins Snakes tried to tell me anything).  And adding new moves should be easy since Snake's existing moves in his EXISTING games still work after removing one dimensional plane -- a lot like guiding him through a narrow hallway.

It should be stressed that the way Movie Land responds to VFX Powers goes hand-in-hand with Joe's actions, meaning Joe by himself isn't the complete character.  Clover believed in this, and they tried to maintain the VFX effects in Red Hot Rumble (which I do not have yet) in a multiplayer setting, but apparently the media elite determined the game was BROKEN in it current scheme.

HAL did such a great job adapting NINTENDO'S characters to the SSB formula.  The vast majority of SSBM's classic cast are VERY MUCH like their in-game renditions (excluding weird character adaptations that involved introducing a unique move set and personality, such as Captain Falcon; this would be "new" rather than "different").

You say Joe would be different, the point I'm making is Joe SHOULD NOT be different.  I don't want another Ganondorf.  And SLOW would just make Joe a sitting duck if everything around him didn't slow down.  I hear SSBM is a fast game.

Hands off Joe.

~~~~~

Capcom will include Arthur and SSBB will be the worst game ever.

[Smash_Brother]

It's going to be Megaman if Capcom makes any kind of contribution.

Megaman is a mascot who has represented Capcom since the earliest days of its existence on the NES. If Capcom has a contribution, it'll more than likely be him.