Topic: FIRST REV SCREENSHOT SCANS!!!!!

[bustin98]

I see where Ian is coming from and it causes concern for me as well. Its not that the controller should do certain actions just because it can, it should make what needs to be done better than what can currently be done. The drawing shapes in the air is cool by me as long as it can be more than what you can do with a controller, say draw an 'X' then pull the controller close to you, point it straight forward, then push out. That could be mimicked on screen and be immersive. But shaking and nodding to answer is just a bit silly. Now, say pushing the buttons will perform other actions while you have the choice to answer, that would be better.

[Kairon]

We'll have to see how it's implemented then. &P

It can go well, or not well, according to how Ubisoft executes it. Until then we're complaining about hypotheticals.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[mantidor]

The mapping of button functions to gestures is ok for me as long as its sporadic and it seems in this case it is. The nodding part is interesting, is just a neat g!immick, and no, that doesnt mean is bad, g!immick is such a negative word, but its original meaning could be applied to almost any gameplay mechanic to be honest, and specially to the controller itself.

[Michael8983]

I don't see what the concern it.
Sure tilting the controller to nod your head or drawing an X in the air for a special move may break from the realism of the game but the alternative is to use the traditional face buttons which, though much more familiar, would be just as unrealistic and would be much more cumbersome.
Would you rather simply tilt the controller to respond to a question or use the d-pad and A button to respond in classic RPG style? The former is simply faster and more in tune with the rest of the game. I suppose special moves could be left out of the game entirely for the sake of realism but I'd glad that's not the case. I'm looking forward to slashing various shapes in the air to unleash massive attacks. It will add depth and, let's face it, make the game much cooler.

Certain uses of the Revmote may seem sparkling innovationy just because we'e not familair with them.
After playing games with buttons and sticks all these years, utilizing hand motions as an alternative will be strange at first but someday it could be the standard. People may look back one day and wonder how we ever put up with controllers with a dozen buttons.

[Ceric]

That was a very long read.  So very long...

Graphic = not worried about.
Gameplay = Looks cool.

Did anyone else noticed the the Ubisoft employee stated that the magazine was slated to hit next week and what this implies?
If it implies what I think it does then next week we will be getting a lot of new information.   It's probablly the end of an NDA precluding developers from totally talking about there games except for the online component.  Its a very exciting implication.

Now don't get me wrong.  I personally think that Nintendo themselves will wait until E3 to shows us any real information about the first party games and let the 3rd party games have a field day for the next month.  Nintendo's name is built up such that we all notice they can easily overshadow 3rd party games.  So the extra starting time could be just what the doctor orders.

This is an intersting start of things.

(A side note I don't think Nintendo has ever forced developers to play favorites to NP.  I mean it makes sense for them to get 1st party because there the same company.)

[Michael8983]

I suspect we will see a few more Rev titles before E3 hits. Third-parties know most of the focus at E3 is going to be on Nintendo's own titles so they'd be wise to reveal their own before then. Red Steel wouldn't be getting nearly as much attention if they'd waited to reveal it at E3, putting it up against MP3.  

[Bill Aurion]

Did anyone else noticed the the Ubisoft employee stated that the magazine was slated to hit next week and what this implies?  If it implies what I think it does then next week we will be getting a lot of new information. It's probablly the end of an NDA precluding developers from totally talking about there games except for the online component. Its a very exciting implication.

Word from credible sources say April 20th is when 3rd party NDAs end...

[zakkiel]

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It really depends how it's done I guess. If the special attack goes along with your moves then it's cool. If there's a delay where I trace the shape and then the guy in the game just automatically does the move then it's kind of lame.

My belief is that you are executing the combo as you trace the shape, and stopping the trace stops the combo. I think there would be a lot of visceral thrill to smoothly moving that remote and watching your character slice threw enemies like hot butter. Gives a feeling of power no button-press could match.

[zakkiel]

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I don't see where you're getting that idea. When you point off screen, your view will rotate towards that direction until you point back at the screen. You don't have to keep turning the remote to turn around in game, nor is your character actually facing the same direction as the remote. It's being used as a pointing device.

According to the suggestion, if you point off-center but on-screen the screen will rotate to center on the cursor. Thus, the cursor will wind up centered on the screen, but your remote will still be pointed off-center. Do this a coupe of times and it gets way out of sinc.

[Requiem]

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Originally posted by: Ian Sane
This game is sounding really cool.  Smash Brother mentioned a whole bunch of bullet pointed details and the game just sounds amazing.  WAY better than anything I would usually expect from Ubisoft.

There are a few things that kind of bug me.
"-Tracing an X in the air, for instance, will unleash a devastating attack
-You signal 'yes/no' answers by nodding the controller up or down or shaking it from side to side"

Those two features sound very much like assigning gestures for actions.  Is there really any need for this sort of stuff?  It just looks like using the remote just because it's there.  It's not emersive to trace an X or nod with the controller.  That's the sort of stuff I don't want to see that much because it's just g!mmicky and lame.  But this game clearly makes up for it with the aiming which makes perfect sense.  I figure some remote usage will be like analog stick gas pedals in that initially everything will use the remote and then over time they'll balance things out as it becomes clear that in some cases a different method would work better.

I agree mostly with what you said, but your argument lacks foundation.

Your annoyed by the fact that gestures may replace buttons. That is a good reason to bitch. Honestly, that's basically all you ever talk about when the NRC is brought up...but I digress.

You must first notice that the "X" comment was most likely a simple example.

Now, I am almost positive you will not make gestures in the traditional sense of the word. Instead, as you are swinging from top left to bottom right with your NRC, you can make the reciprical motion to start a devastating flurry that may need you to continue attacking. The comment (paraphrased) "you can stop the combo when ever you like to defend by simply stopping your motion" backs up this belief.

I truly believe that these combos only need special activation swings because they involve an insane amount of sword skill and aerobatics that most likely noone who plays videogames posseses.

[Michael8983]

"According to the suggestion, if you point off-center but on-screen the screen will rotate to center on the cursor. Thus, the cursor will wind up centered on the screen, but your remote will still be pointed off-center. Do this a coupe of times and it gets way out of sinc."

I think they meant the camera will ATTEMPT to center the cursor. I don't think it will truly re-center untill the remote returns to its neutral position. So if you pointed the cursor just slightly off-center to the right, the character would slowly turn in that direction until you position the cursor at the center of the screen. Basically just like how it would play with an analog stick.  

[MaryJane]

I think not only is the X more immersive but so is using the revmote to nod and shake ur head. If the game completely rely on using the revmote, then no silly button pop ups saying press a for this action and such therefore leading to smoother, and more immersive gameplay, it'll feel a lot less like playing a game, than if you cut someone's head off and it's all gorey and realistic, then all of a sudden this little green icon says press A to agree or B to disagree, instead you act out all of the actions, quicker, smoother, immersive, better all around. At least imo.  

[UltimatePartyBear]

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Originally posted by: zakkiel
According to the suggestion, if you point off-center but on-screen the screen will rotate to center on the cursor. Thus, the cursor will wind up centered on the screen, but your remote will still be pointed off-center. Do this a coupe of times and it gets way out of sinc.

Ah.  Now I see where you got it.  Remember that the controller is being used as a pointing device.  It doesn't care about it's orientation except to compute where it's pointing on the screen.  After the camera pans, if you haven't moved away, you'll still be pointing to the same spot on the screen, not necessarily at the same target in the virtual environment.  It isn't clear whether the camera will continue to pan or wait again (my guess is it will keep panning so you can circle strafe), but if you move the controller, you'll find that pointing it at the center of the screen will require the exact same positioning as before.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: zakkiel

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I don't see where you're getting that idea. When you point off screen, your view will rotate towards that direction until you point back at the screen. You don't have to keep turning the remote to turn around in game, nor is your character actually facing the same direction as the remote. It's being used as a pointing device.

According to the suggestion, if you point off-center but on-screen the screen will rotate to center on the cursor. Thus, the cursor will wind up centered on the screen, but your remote will still be pointed off-center. Do this a coupe of times and it gets way out of sinc.

No it won't. You're "pointing" at something on the screen. You will always be pointing at something on the screen.

Thus, I think the cursor will get "dragged" along with the screen as it re-centers. But you can dynamically re-aim since it's such an intuitive interface, and the delay is there so that the screen will only really re-center when you're trying to take your time to aim at something intensely. Understand that if there are four enemies on the screen, you can shoot all four without the camera moving. I'm thinking that the camera will only move for deliberate turns or within natural breaks in the action.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[zakkiel]

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No it won't. You're "pointing" at something on the screen. You will always be pointing at something on the screen.

You're mistaken, but I'm not sure how to explain clearly. If you have the screen move with the remote - even with a delay - this throws off the the zero setting for the cursor. If you keep doing this eventually it will have zero set to where the controller is pointing ina completely different direction. Imagine that the screen was directly tied to the remote; in order to turn around, you would have to turn the remote backwards. Using a combination of a screen tied directly to the remote and one which rotates when you point off-screen will reduce the problem, but not eliminate it.

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I think they meant the camera will ATTEMPT to center the cursor. I don't think it will truly re-center untill the remote returns to its neutral position. So if you pointed the cursor just slightly off-center to the right, the character would slowly turn in that direction until you position the cursor at the center of the screen. Basically just like how it would play with an analog stick.

That would be edge-sensitivity taken to its logical extreme. It might be the best solution.

[UltimatePartyBear]

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Originally posted by: zakkiel

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No it won't. You're "pointing" at something on the screen. You will always be pointing at something on the screen.

You're mistaken, but I'm not sure how to explain clearly. If you have the screen move with the remote - even with a delay - this throws off the the zero setting for the cursor. If you keep doing this eventually it will have zero set to where the controller is pointing ina completely different direction. Imagine that the screen was directly tied to the remote; in order to turn around, you would have to turn the remote backwards. Using a combination of a screen tied directly to the remote and one which rotates when you point off-screen will reduce the problem, but not eliminate it.

You're assuming there's a zero point to be reset when there isn't one.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Artimus
Words cannot describe how frustrating your comments are. How ignorant, how pathetic, how childish.

Hey, come on! We got Ian to say something POSITIVE! As far as I'm concerned, the day is won.

As for the question, if you move the Revmote up and down and the screen moves with it while you're talking to someone, then that is indeed better for immersive purposes. It sounds like your character might very well be a cipher, but I'm willing to forgive it if the game is done in such a way that I TRULY feel as though I am the character in the game.

So if I use an actual gesture to nod and shake my head, then sure, I'm cool with that, if the camera moves when I do it then it simulates exactly what I'm going to do. I like the idea of having no cutscenes as it will further enhance the immersion potential of the game.

As for special moves, I think the idea was that the game would be controlled primarily with motion and as such would attempt to perform every action possible with the Revmote. I can guarantee that controlling a point in 3D space will be more immersive than moving a stick around. I loved lightgun games because when you were actually aiming the gun, the game did a far better job of pulling you into it then moving a cursor around with a controller.

Thus, I could say that, when I want to unleash a devastating attack, I can channel my character's energy with a gesture of my blade, something which isn't terribly far-fetched in the world of samurai swordplay, and it'll keep me more in the game than pressing a button or, god knows, selecting from a list of attacks I wish to perform.

I think it'll aid in immersion so I don't think it'll feel unnatural.

As for Ubi, Splinter Cell was a take on MGS, BG&E was a Zelda-like adventure. The only game from them which was truly original was PoP, which stayed true to the original PoP games by being an acrobatics based adventure which won plenty of awards because nothing like it has been seen this generation.

This is a completely new franchise and something which has yet to be done in the world of gaming, hence why I was surprised when I heard it from Ubi.

[TrueNerd]

Random Thought: This game better have the best melee attack ever in an FPS. I want it to feel like like I'm really smackin' a dude in the head with the butt of my gun.

As for the yes/no, nodding/shaking thing, meh. Is that really that much better or worse then hitting "A" for yes or "B" for no? It could be better if a menu asking you the question doesn't come up at all and the NPC asking the question demands you to nod or shake your head until you do.  

EDIT: Bill mentioned that April 20th is the day 3rd party NDA's expire and I thought I would add that the 20th is the exact day that Game Informer Unlimited, the extra content magazine subscribers can see on their website,  goes live. Obviously, Red Steel content will be the big thing this month. Could just be a coincidence though.  

[IceCold]

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Originally posted by: Ceric
Now don't get me wrong.  I personally think that Nintendo themselves will wait until E3 to shows us any real information about the first party games and let the 3rd party games have a field day for the next month.  Nintendo's name is built up such that we all notice they can easily overshadow 3rd party games.  So the extra starting time could be just what the doctor orders.

I wholeheartedly agree.. Mario and Metroid are enough to overshadow anything and everything, so letting third parties reveal their games in a staggered fashion is brilliant. It's good advertising, and it may even make them sell better come Revolution time. And, of course, we expect that when Nintendo shows their games, they will be even better than the 3rd party offerings, and we will continue to be amazed.

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: TrueNerd
Random Thought: This game better have the best melee attack ever in an FPS. I want it to feel like like I'm really smackin' a dude in the head with the butt of my gun.

As for the yes/no, nodding/shaking thing, meh. Is that really that much better or worse then hitting "A" for yes or "B" for no? It could be better if a menu asking you the question doesn't come up at all and the NPC asking the question demands you to nod or shake your head until you do.

Yeah, I was always saying how insanely fun the melee attack in Halo would be with the Revmote.

Maybe the character will be mute in this game, making him even more of a cipher, hence why all he can do is nod or shake his head.  

[MaryJane]

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Originally posted by: TrueNerd
Random Thought: This game better have the best melee attack ever in an FPS. I want it to feel like like I'm really smackin' a dude in the head with the butt of my gun.

As for the yes/no, nodding/shaking thing, meh. Is that really that much better or worse then hitting "A" for yes or "B" for no? It could be better if a menu asking you the question doesn't come up at all and the NPC asking the question demands you to nod or shake your head until you do.  

EDIT: Bill mentioned that April 20th is the day 3rd party NDA's expire and I thought I would add that the 20th is the exact day that Game Informer Unlimited, the extra content magazine subscribers can see on their website,  goes live. Obviously, Red Steel content will be the big thing this month. Could just be a coincidence though.

point 1: I'm really hoping that the revmote uses some sort of technology that will somehow offer resistance when using it to hit things, I don't even know if its possible, but it'd be great.

point 2: I just thought, the nodded and shaking will make no difference if text is the only option, or not able  to be turned off in favor of voice only, cuz then they might as well have button presses.

point 3: April 20th is always one of the best days of the year  

[Michael8983]

"point 1: I'm really hoping that the revmote uses some sort of technology that will somehow offer resistance when using it to hit things, I don't even know if its possible, but it'd be great."

Even if that was possible I don't see how it could be feasible without making the Revmote WAY too expensive.
I do suspect it will come with an enhanced rumble feature which will be the next best thing.

[jasonditz]

Even if there's some way to pull it off, which is easier said than done, I would think the power consumption would be far too prohibitive for a wireless controller.

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: PartyBear

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Originally posted by: zakkiel

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No it won't. You're "pointing" at something on the screen. You will always be pointing at something on the screen.

You're mistaken, but I'm not sure how to explain clearly. If you have the screen move with the remote - even with a delay - this throws off the the zero setting for the cursor. If you keep doing this eventually it will have zero set to where the controller is pointing ina completely different direction. Imagine that the screen was directly tied to the remote; in order to turn around, you would have to turn the remote backwards. Using a combination of a screen tied directly to the remote and one which rotates when you point off-screen will reduce the problem, but not eliminate it.

You're assuming there's a zero point to be reset when there isn't one.

Quoted for truth.

~Carmine M. Red
Kairon@aol.com

[Smash_Brother]

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Originally posted by: Michael8983
Even if that was possible I don't see how it could be feasible without making the Revmote WAY too expensive.
I do suspect it will come with an enhanced rumble feature which will be the next best thing.

It's an interesting idea.

What if the vibration unit (which does exist in the controller) gave force feedback in a specific direction rather than simply vibrating?

If your sword clashes with that of your enemy, the controller could vibrate in the direction opposite of where your sword hit, simulating the feel of the handle pushing into your palm on an impact. When the gun fires, you could have actual recoil instead of just vibration.

It might very well be doable, as the controller was noted as being the most expensive part of the whole system, but we'll have to wait and see in that regard.

Personally, I think it would make games like this just that much better.