Topic: More Sony Lies

[Myxtika1 Azn]

OMFG, I've just thought of a great idea for those of us who hate having to go rounds with the camera!  Give Link a water pack a la Mario Sunshine and problem solved!

[Pryopizm]

Sony's sales numbers came out recently.  I got this from the IMDb:

Sony today (Thursday) reported its worst half-year ever, saying profits plummeted 72 percent to $184 million. While the primary loser for the company was its consumer electronics division, Sony also noted that its movie business had sustained an operating loss of $57 million compared with last year's profit of $238 million, largely due to its blockbuster hit Spider-Man 2. By contrast, this year's Stealth, a $130-million production starring Jamie Foxx, earned only $31.7 million domestically. The company's only bright light appeared to be its new PlayStation Portable, which has been selling strongly.

It seems as if the PSP is actually selling very well since it's the most profitable item Sony has.  Despite its profits plummeting (some blame is due to R&D for the PS3) $184 million in profits alone is still a pretty sizeable chunk of change.

[OptimusPrime]

The PSP being profitable is actually a complex and genuis corporate construction by good ol crazy Ken Kuturagi. While Sony's electronics division has been losing money for almost a decade, they're also the ones that actually make all the parts of the PSP and selling them to the gaming division against huge loss. Gaming division sells the PSP at minor loss in their books then adds up income from games and UMD's and hopla, fictional profit get!

And 184 million isn't impressive if you know that Nintendo's expected profit for this year (with R&D for the revolution) is actually higher (220 million or something) and they only do games.

[Avinash_Tyagi]

Also they state the PSP is selling well (or do they actually mean shipping well )but they don't mention anything about the R&D for the systems...and heres why:

from: Gamesindustry.biz
Electronics giant Sony has seen a 46 per cent slump in its profit for the three months ended September 30th, with the enormous cost of developing the PlayStation 3 console fingered as a key factor in the decline.

Also:
NY TIMES
Sony also reiterated its outlook for a loss of nearly $87 million for the fiscal year ending in March. It would be the company's first annual loss in more than a decade.

So not just a loss for the gaming divsion but also the entire company.

[Pryopizm]

There's no mistaking Sony's current losing status (profit-wise), but I wouldn't get too excited about rooting against them.  Personally I'm a fan of software, not corporate giants, since I'm not a shareholder in any of these companies it doesn't really affect me in any other way except available games.  But, like the article said, the biggest loser is Sony's film division and much of its consumer electronics.  Sony is getting the beat down by Apple and the PSP is no longer viable competition since the iPod video has come out.  Since the PSPs best sellers are the UMDs, it's going to hurt them quite a bit.  

But consumer electronics is Sony's bread and butter, and so long as they continue to profit off of it at all, of course they'll continue with it, especially in video games.  They'll simply cut their losses elsewhere.  Don't be surprised if they sell off their films division.  They can't subsist on Spiderman alone.  (Also, is it wrong for me to take great joy in Stealth being such a failure?  Not because it was a Sony movie, but because it was yet another big, bad, and stupid action flick.)

The big question is what will Nintendo do to market and position the Revolution to take advantage of Sony's weaknesses?  And that's not their only hurdle, since both XBox and Playstation own so much of the populace's mindshare.  

[King of Twitch]

They can cut the secrecy crap and start trash talking again

[Ymeegod]

"nintendo should start offering shipped numbers; play Sony's dirty game"

?  Actually nintendo has used "shipped" numbers as well :0.  Love how these fanboys seem to jump down Sony's back when nintendo uses the same damn tactics when it suits them.  

Hell I can give you quite a few links to Reggie's interviews where he gives shipped units or you can just google it in for yourself.

[Myxtika1 Azn]

I would like such links please.

[Gamebasher]

Pryopizm, to answer your question about what Nintendo will do to take advantage of Sony´s weaknesses and how it will counter the mindshare owned by Sony and Microsoft. Here is my view of what will happen, and I expressedly state that this will depend on Nintendo coming out with some unmissable first-party and second-party titles and joined by some 3. party titles as well to show people the fabulous potential of the new controller interface kicking of the Revolution! So here goes:

They will expand their existing userbase, eating their way into the marketshares of the other two consolemakers, and in that way gradually own more and more public mindshare! For instance, families planning to own two of the next-generation consoles buying a Revolution and XBOX360/PS3, will rather quickly be able to see how much greater is the ease of gamecontrol with the Nintendo Revolution thanks to Miyamoto´s ingenious invention of the TV-remote handcontrol. The ease of use will have instant appeal with a lot of people in the families, and will bring people in them together for intense gameplay sessions which will be unrivalled in terms of  fun- and entertainment value. The Super Smash Brothers game with the new controller will rock the houses!

This is sure to make the old-school control of the XBOX360 and the PS3 pale in comparison, and the majority of people will favour Nintendo over them! Why bother with handling a big, clumsy controller during- and after each gameplay session, when you can just use a simple remote controller and after the end of the game place it back on top of the tv? People will like this a lot.

Nintendo will henceforth nolonger be viewed as only being for children, since the new gaming revolution will attract more and more adults who will reenter gaming with the Nintendo Revolution changing the overall perception of the company very quickly. The complexity of existing consoles alone, will mean that these people will just love the new machine! Being mostly inactive bystanders for a decade, or so, only either watching by as their kids played or only superficially playing rarely, they will grab the opportunity of the new Nintendo machine to seize the instant opportunity of compensating for the many years of not playing games.

This will cement the status of Nintendo as a company making games to all agegroups - all-access gaming in the words of Reggie himself - and their phenomenal success is assured for all the future! Their marketpenetration is already now starting the show with the DS! This will only get better when the parent machine comes out. Not to mention the online capabilities of both! Only one of the other two consolemakers will survive the nextgeneration console war, and my bet is that this will be Microsoft! So there you have it!

All this talk about there only being room for two consolemakers in the market, is true. Only it won´t be Nintendo bowing it! That is 110% sure. Call me a fanboy or what you like. I love Nintendo not for loves sake alone, but because I can see they make more sense than anybody else does!


 

   

[KDR_11k]

They will expand their existing userbase, eating their way into the marketshares of the other two consolemakers, and in that way gradually own more and more public mindshare!

How?

All this talk about there only being room for two consolemakers in the market, is true. Only it won´t be Nintendo bowing it!

Really?

[Gamebasher]

Yes, really!

And I do feel I have explained the "how" of it!

It may not go precisely like that, but overall Nintendo should be OK for the future, and more so than now. So I don´t think Iwata has anything to worry about in terms of sales of the Nintendo Revolution!

 

[King of Twitch]

So I don´t think Iwata has anything to worry about in terms of sales of the Nintendo Revolution!

-Besides saying they don't care if consumers buy their competiton's systems, selling off most of their 2nd party studios, launching last, and not caring about 3rd parties cancelling their games?  

[KDR_11k]

Besides saying they don't care if consumers buy their competiton's systems, selling off most of their 2nd party studios, launching last, and not caring about 3rd parties cancelling their games?

They sold Rare and?

[OptimusPrime]

Hell, if Nintendo is doing anything they're making stronger ties with (mostly japanese) developers. As someone else already mentioned, no one notiticed how many Nintendo published DS-games are not being made by Nintendo but by some (mostly) small and unknown team?
They sold Rare and broke the contract with SK, in the meantime they're expanding Retro, building ties with Kuju, GCSoft and other teams and expanding their japanese 2nd parties nobody knows about....but they're out there!

[Gamebasher]

Yes, they´re here and they´re here to stay!

Thank the great videogame God for that! Thank him until you can´t say "thank you" anymore that day, and then go on to start thanking him again untill you drop on the next!

Nintendo saves us all from videogame annihilation!

[KDR_11k]

Ah, so you're a missionary for some kind of videogame religion, eh? Or just an acid salesman?

[TMW]

Videogame religion?  

That doesn't sound too bad.  

Well, except for the endless thanking of Him and prostrating myself.  I don't think I could get into a religion like that.

[Gamebasher]

No, KDR_11k I am not an acid salesman!

But I think you are, with all that negativity you always throw in my face when I state my positivity towards all things Nintendo! And by the way, I think you not only sell acid, you´re also on it no doubt since you are so convinced that I am so wrong about Nintendo! YOU are the one living in a world of illusion, not me!

But that will be seen shortly, of course. And that is where I think I will finally have some peace from your negativity.

There is absolutely nothing wrong about being wonderfully positive about Nintendo´s future, in particular if it is based on fact and not fiction!

I always kind of wonder what you are doing here in a Nintendo Forum, when you are so pessimistic about Nintendo´s future! Me painting too rosy a picture of them for you, huh? Too bad if you think so, because I think you paint one which is too negative!

[KDR_11k]

Why shouldn't I be on a Gamecube forum if I have a Gamecube? This isn't a forum to frolick and praise Nintendo, it's a forum for discussion.

Your writing style is very "praise be!" style, too much proclaimation. Plus you're always claiming that Nintendo winning next gen is a fact whereas it really is nothing but speculation. You think everything will work out the way Nintendo wants, I think that no plan survives contact with the enemy and that this plan in particular won't go perfect. Nintendo did not even deliver a decent performance over the last few years, piling disappointment on disappointment (they kept making games but made so many mistakes business wise and especially when it comes to third party relations) and Fils-Aime has done more talking than acting. Talking about Nintendo being an "and" company is worthless if he can't show anything that has come from this philosophy. The public oppinion is rightfully against Nintendo because while they may deliver many great games themselves they cannot make up for the lack of major third party exclusives and haven't made up for idiotic decisions like the tiny non-volatile media on the GC. Gamers want games and sadly the games are on the PS2.

[ThePerm]

gamebasher is me a  few years ago

[stevey]

"videogame religion"

That's a good idea nintendo need a cult ... I mean religion of the reggielution! Were all you do is pray the Holy Trinity of Miyamoto, reggie, and Iwata ghost and kick the butt of infidel MS $ony fanboy and take their names.

[Gamebasher]

"Talking about Nintendo being an "and" company is worthless if he can't show anything that has come from this philosophy. The public oppinion is rightfully against Nintendo because while they may deliver many great games themselves they cannot make up for the lack of major third party exclusives and haven't made up for idiotic decisions like the tiny non-volatile media on the GC. Gamers want games and sadly the games are on the PS2. "

Firstly, Hiroshi Yamauchi isn´t with the company anylonger. OK? His old-school hard-line hand of control is gone, but not the sense of direction of the company. This alone means that Nintendo is going in a new direction which is clearly seen in the lightningly fast initiatives by Iwata (he started the day he became President) with fast follow-up to change the old-school Nintendo into a reborn company which will if things go according to plan (and so it seems) will put them back as the marketleader in 2007 and forward. So they CAN show something which is coming from "this philosophy"! And that is what I read in the news daily continues. Nintendo DS, free online (a first for the industry), Revolution with revolutionary control changing consolegaming forever and new as of yet unseen initiatives from Nintendo to be revealed at the end of the year. So it does indeed look rosy, doesn´t it! At the same time they are trying very hard to make it easier to make the games themselves, lowering licensing fees, enabling developers to think in diferent ways towards gamecreation which will significantly lower the
production cost of each game made, thus helping struggling developer companies to gain some much needed ground in the industry awakening hope in the world of consolegaming when it is being dominated by a company which has held dominance for far too long, perhaps flooding the market with games but in the process lowered the overall perception of gameplay quality, and overall morality as goes for paying for the software releases. They entered the market like a hurricane, and left a trail of destruction like a real hurricane does, and now they will leave the same market like a hurricane also does after raging on for only so long.

Don´t believe me? That is your decision. I have heard the rumblings of the market where developers are seeing the New Light being turned on by Nintendo (and to some extent Microsoft) which in contrast makes the old-school Sony style of management and marketing attitudes look less and less compelling to developers. Were it not for Nintendo, there would be no changes in the all-time high- and rising costs of videogame developement! They are a most welcome and fresh influence in the industry. In a way they have always been, but the hard-as-nails perception that they are only for kids has unfairly weghed them down for too long, probably also being the very reason why too many third-parties didn t give them a fair chance. I read about all of these things daily, weekly in the videogame news and I believe that what I read on trustworthy websites like this one, Kikizo.com, IGN.com, Revo-europe.com is to be taken as ample proof that they put action behind their promises! The Revolution is already rolling, and I believe it will continue to roll and take a lot of gamers with it. A lot more than in this generation!

[IceCold]

You know, I think KDR should take Gamebasher's name; I'm not sure that he really even likes games.

BTW, is it "kill death ratio"?

[KnowsNothing]

I don't care what he's talking about, Gamebasher sounds like an over zealous nut-head trying to shove his religion down my throat.  His "praise-be" attitude is very irritating.  I'm a very positive person concerning Nintendo, but at least I can sound sane about it.  

Is this guy even for real.

[KDR_11k]

Not even the most enthusiastic PR drones claim that Nintendo has a chance at becoming #1. They aren't trying to be and therefore won't become.

This alone means that Nintendo is going in a new direction which is clearly seen in the lightningly fast initiatives by Iwata (he started the day he became President) with fast follow-up to change the old-school Nintendo into a reborn company which will if things go according to plan (and so it seems) will put them back as the marketleader in 2007 and forward.

What initiatives were those? Except for that Capcom 5 deal I don't remember any. None of them have panned out.

Nintendo DS, free online (a first for the industry)

*coughPCcoughPS2hackDreamcastwheeze* Sorry.

At the same time they are trying very hard to make it easier to make the games themselves, lowering licensing fees, enabling developers to think in diferent ways towards gamecreation which will significantly lower the production cost of each game made, thus helping struggling developer companies to gain some much needed ground in the industry awakening hope in the world of consolegaming [...]

Nintendo is still pretty anal about who gets their SDKs, asccording to their own site you need to be a big developer to even apply. Contrast this with Microsoft who is signing on independent studios to populate XBox Live Arcade with games (and these games are nowhere near the cost of an "EAwood" title, many simple 2d games and stuff). Why don't I see Nintendo snagging all the indies for the Rev? There's a large industry of independent developers in Japan that trades IP and sometimes breaks into the mainstream (Air, Kanon, Tsuki Hime, just off the top of my mind) with many highly polished and/or innovative games on sale. Nintendo doesn't seem to sign any indies on. Considering that these indies happen to cover the arcade(like) market and that Nintendo seems to be lacking in these genres that would be a major asset.

a company which has held dominance for far too long, perhaps flooding the market with games but in the process lowered the overall perception of gameplay quality, and overall morality as goes for paying for the software releases. They entered the market like a hurricane, and left a trail of destruction like a real hurricane does, and now they will leave the same market like a hurricane also does after raging on for only so long.

I don't see it. Sure, there are many bad games on the PS2 and there's no way Nintendo would allow crap like Aquaman or Charlie's Angels on the Gamecube, right? Oh, wait. If publishers wanted their junk published on the Gamecube Nintendo would rubberstamp 'em OK. There are only two ways, 1. to control the market and not allow bad games to be published or 2. to open up the market and let the customers sort out the bad games. People don't like to be controlled so developers and publishers will gravitate towards markets that follow the latter rule. SCEA has its restrictive policies as well and I think that's the reason so many japanese devs have signed up with MS so they can publish their games in the US without any trouble but western studios don't notice these policies that much so I wouldn't expect them to abandon the PS3.

I have heard the rumblings of the market where developers are seeing the New Light being turned on by Nintendo (and to some extent Microsoft) which in contrast makes the old-school Sony style of management and marketing attitudes look less and less compelling to developers.

Microsoft is a bigger draw for publishers than Nintendo because they offer better conditions.

I believe that what I read on trustworthy websites like [...] IGN.com,

EXCUSE ME?

Lastly, a great console won't sell if it doesn't have a good public perception and lots of marketing. Look at the Dreamcast, even if Sega had continued making it the DC was selling very badly compared to any other current gen console.


EDIT: Because I'd have had my post right below Gamebasher's if it weren't for you meddling kids:

IceCold: Nope, originally it stood for "KronoDisRuptor" with the 11k added because the BFG was already 10k but by now it has become "Dave's rather unique username" . Plus it fits nicely into the highscore tables of arcade games.