Author Topic: Zelda DS: Phantom Hourglass (Read 93118 times)

LuigiHann · « **Reply #275 on:** October 27, 2007, 11:38:36 AM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
yeahhh you can't sit there and tell me touching the screen to attack which also makes you move is more accurate than traditional controls.

Have you tried, you know, tapping the enemies? That's extremely accurate, and the sort of instantaneous targeting that would be pretty difficult to do with traditional controls. If you're trying to draw lines to slash while fighting enemies, then yeah, I can see how that would be a problem, but it's a pretty dumb and avoidable problem.

Kairon · « **Reply #276 on:** October 27, 2007, 12:02:52 PM »

Yeah, tapping the enemies is an instant way to initiate the leap attack, almost like an instant lock-on system attack. If the enemy is too close though you'll just thrust.

Mashiro · « **Reply #277 on:** October 27, 2007, 12:06:28 PM »

I have done the whole taping the enemies thing but I try doing the slash as well because well that's more traditional to me as a move (including swiping at bushes and stuff). It's the slashes that don't work well and that's what's annoying.

And to me, just tapping enemies to insta-lock on and kill them isn't all that fun nor challenging tbh.

Quote
Oh, and if you want to roll don't make little circles. Just slide tap the stylus into the side of the screen twice in your desired direction. I can do it on demand.

Then the game should tell me to do that instead of telling me circles so I don't feel like an retard while trying to do the move. Thank you for the advice though.

I think they are a step backwards I don't see what the great thing is about touch controls for this traditional Zelda game. I just don't get it. It's not that they are overly difficult or anything it's just not a "wow this is a logical move for the zelda series!" it feels more tacked on than anything else.

Edit: With that said the parts with the touch screen that are welcome is the map drawing, but so far I'm just not digging this Zelda adventure.

Mario · « **Reply #278 on:** October 27, 2007, 12:47:10 PM »

I agree with Mashiro from the 5 minutes I played of this at a demo kiosk, it felt really lame, but I know that's not the best indicator.

Kairon · « **Reply #279 on:** October 27, 2007, 01:07:13 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
I think they are a step backwards I don't see what the great thing is about touch controls for this traditional Zelda game. I just don't get it. It's not that they are overly difficult or anything it's just not a "wow this is a logical move for the zelda series!" it feels more tacked on than anything else.

Why is it a step backwards if you don't think that they are overly difficult or anything? They're just different, that's all. They're a sidewats move in a lot of ways, and a move to suit the hardware and to be more accessible to new players who would find the SNES layout difficult, I'm sure.

Quote
And to me, just tapping enemies to insta-lock on and kill them isn't all that fun nor challenging tbh.

Besides, why complain about the tapping on enemies to kill them? You say that it isn't difficult, and that's EXACTLY what controls should be: not difficult. You shouldn't have difficulty fighting enemies, because Zelda is about figuring out how to fight them instead of the act of actually fighting them. The fun isn't in killing the enemies, it's in the figuring out how to. This isn't an FPS, after all.

Also, very soon you will find enough enemies who you CAN'T defeat by tapping on. They literally block ALL your sword attacks... unless... hehe.

Anyways, I really believe that complaints about touch screen controls in this game are complaints about them being DIFFERENT, not worse. Though I will give you that the game told you the bad way to roll...

Mashiro · « **Reply #280 on:** October 27, 2007, 01:35:36 PM »

Quote
Besides, why complain about the tapping on enemies to kill them? You say that it isn't difficult, and that's EXACTLY what controls should be: not difficult. You shouldn't have difficulty fighting enemies, because Zelda is about figuring out how to fight them instead of the act of actually fighting them. The fun isn't in killing the enemies, it's in the figuring out how to. This isn't an FPS, after all.

Half the fun of Zelda games of old was dodging enemies with quick controls, swiping and hitting them in the right way and trying not to take damage.

I just don't see that happening with these controls.

It's a slight downgrade. It's different in a bad way to me. It's nothing fantastic. It feels dumbed down with far less possibilities for moves.

Not impressed at all and the more I play it the more I regret my purchase.

optimisticlimbo · « **Reply #281 on:** October 27, 2007, 01:53:52 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Quote
Besides, why complain about the tapping on enemies to kill them? You say that it isn't difficult, and that's EXACTLY what controls should be: not difficult. You shouldn't have difficulty fighting enemies, because Zelda is about figuring out how to fight them instead of the act of actually fighting them. The fun isn't in killing the enemies, it's in the figuring out how to. This isn't an FPS, after all.

Half the fun of Zelda games of old was dodging enemies with quick controls, swiping and hitting them in the right way and trying not to take damage.

I just don't see that happening with these controls.

It's a slight downgrade. It's different in a bad way to me. It's nothing fantastic. It feels dumbed down with far less possibilities for moves.

Not impressed at all and the more I play it the more I regret my purchase.

I'm a huge Zelda fan, and I'll be honest, the games to me at least, have never been about combat. 'Fighting' enemies to me has always been like a mobile puzzle. The fighting possibilities were definitely upped with all the moves that were put into Wind Waker, but these just expanded the 'how do I take this enemy down' repertoire.

Kairon · « **Reply #282 on:** October 27, 2007, 02:45:14 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: optimisticlimbo
Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Quote
Besides, why complain about the tapping on enemies to kill them? You say that it isn't difficult, and that's EXACTLY what controls should be: not difficult. You shouldn't have difficulty fighting enemies, because Zelda is about figuring out how to fight them instead of the act of actually fighting them. The fun isn't in killing the enemies, it's in the figuring out how to. This isn't an FPS, after all.

Half the fun of Zelda games of old was dodging enemies with quick controls, swiping and hitting them in the right way and trying not to take damage.

I just don't see that happening with these controls.

It's a slight downgrade. It's different in a bad way to me. It's nothing fantastic. It feels dumbed down with far less possibilities for moves.

Not impressed at all and the more I play it the more I regret my purchase.

I'm a huge Zelda fan, and I'll be honest, the games to me at least, have never been about combat. 'Fighting' enemies to me has always been like a mobile puzzle. The fighting possibilities were definitely upped with all the moves that were put into Wind Waker, but these just expanded the 'how do I take this enemy down' repertoire.

Yeah, as a Zelda fan myself I never considered the enemies as anything other than easy to dispense of once you know what tool to use. I mean, seriously, the only Zelda game which required gamer skill to fight in was Zelda 2, and that Zelda... well... and I guess you could say Zelda 1, but that was because of the difficulties inherent in any oldschool NES game. And my MOM played the NES game, so even there the enemies couldn't have been that worrisome.

Mashiro · « **Reply #283 on:** October 27, 2007, 03:37:33 PM »

Quote
so even there the enemies couldn't have been that worrisome.

Someone's never played through the original Zelda lol

Kairon · « **Reply #284 on:** October 27, 2007, 03:46:34 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Quote
so even there the enemies couldn't have been that worrisome.

Someone's never played through the original Zelda lol

The original Zelda enemies were never hard, old-school 2D controls and paradigms were. Notice how much easier enemies were in LTTP, where it was still 2D, but they had worked out the kinks of 2D control mechanics?

Mashiro · « **Reply #285 on:** October 27, 2007, 03:56:29 PM »

Quote
The original Zelda enemies were never hard, old-school 2D controls and paradigms were. Notice how much easier enemies were in LTTP, where it was still 2D, but they had worked out the kinks of 2D control mechanics?

ALttP didn't have groups of those crazy wizards that's all I will say.

Edit: In any case I still am not seeing what's so amazing about this game outside of it's visuals.

Double Edit: Where's GP lol

Kairon · « **Reply #286 on:** October 27, 2007, 04:04:39 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
Quote
The original Zelda enemies were never hard, old-school 2D controls and paradigms were. Notice how much easier enemies were in LTTP, where it was still 2D, but they had worked out the kinks of 2D control mechanics?

ALttP didn't have groups of those crazy wizards that's all I will say.

Sounds like Somebody didn't play the Misery Mire dungeon in Lttp dark world!

Also, in LttP the like-like's had TONGUES that SHOT out at you!

Quote
Double Edit: Where's GP lol

I already had an epic discussion with her through PMs. I don't know if she wants to revive it here though, lol.

Mashiro · « **Reply #287 on:** October 27, 2007, 04:11:06 PM »

Those wizards had nothing on the ones in the NES version. Hence CRAZY wizards lol.

The NES wizards were in a class all their own. They just raped your face off!

Still PH seems like watered down wind waker in a bad way so far.

IceCold · « **Reply #288 on:** October 27, 2007, 04:35:57 PM »

Wow, Kairon's defending a good game for once..

Mashiro · « **Reply #289 on:** October 27, 2007, 05:08:29 PM »

7.5 was generous that's all I can say!

just kidding

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #290 on:** October 27, 2007, 05:33:03 PM »

Hey, sorry I have been playing a really great game, Ratchet and Clank for PS3, so I have been absent. In regards to the touch controls, I think they work fairly well, though I would have much rather had seen a more traditional control scheme with touch control used sparingly for weapon use along with note taking.

Kairon · « **Reply #291 on:** October 27, 2007, 05:53:13 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: IceCold
Wow, Kairon's defending a good game for once..

Hey, I ALWAYS defend games worth defending!

... they're not always THIS good, but they're ALWAYS worth defending.

Kairon · « **Reply #292 on:** October 27, 2007, 06:33:25 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
The NES wizards were in a class all their own. They just raped your face off!

Haha, I didn't hate them as much as I hated NES darknuts though!

Quote
Still PH seems like watered down wind waker in a bad way so far.

I don't agree at all. To me, it seems like a handheld successor to LTTP.

GoldenPhoenix · « **Reply #293 on:** October 27, 2007, 08:05:43 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: Kairon

I don't agree at all. To me, it seems like a handheld successor to LTTP.

I think I almost puked.

Kairon · « **Reply #294 on:** October 27, 2007, 08:54:37 PM »

*shakes fist*

KDR_11k · « **Reply #295 on:** October 27, 2007, 11:28:01 PM »

lern2play nub. After I got some pratice I'm now capable of stabbing enemies with little trouble even without aimed taps.

The touchscreen controls were a wise decision. After all, what would be the alternatives while maintaining the functions the touchscreen provides for items? I bet you'd complain if you had to drag out the stylus every time you want to throw the boomerang so full button controls are out (unless you want to return the items to LttP level and make it 8-way aiming again). Permanent dpad use while using the stylus for everything except movement hurts after an hour of playing. Really, how would you have designed the controls instead without making it Lttp with 3d graphics?

Mashiro · « **Reply #296 on:** October 28, 2007, 03:24:56 AM »

Quote
I think they work fairly well, though I would have much rather had seen a more traditional control scheme with touch control used sparingly for weapon use along with note taking.

Agreed.

Quote
I don't agree at all. To me, it seems like a handheld successor to LTTP.

. . . yeah I shall puke as well . . .

Quote
lern2play nub. After I got some pratice I'm now capable of stabbing enemies with little trouble even without aimed taps.

You told me to l2p lol . . . what is this the WoW forums? Seriously, it's not overly difficult to use the controls but as I said it's not like a "wow this is amazing and totally a logical step in advancing the zelda series!". I just don't think it merits replacing the old play style at all.

Quote
The touchscreen controls were a wise decision. After all, what would be the alternatives while maintaining the functions the touchscreen provides for items? I bet you'd complain if you had to drag out the stylus every time you want to throw the boomerang . . .

I did the same thing with New Super Mario Bros. in regards to the taking out the stylus (see: item power ups). I wouldn't complain if it was like that I wouldn't mind it like that at all actually.

Quote
Really, how would you have designed the controls instead without making it Lttp with 3d graphics?

I would have vastly preferred that they DID make it more like a LTTP with 3D graphics. They stuck with nearly all traditional controls for NSMB so why couldn't they have done the same here? The only thing I really think is great with the touch pad so far is marking your maps.

Kairon · « **Reply #297 on:** October 28, 2007, 04:40:41 AM »

Interestingly enough, I've NEVER wanted to own or play NSMB...

Adrock · « **Reply #298 on:** October 28, 2007, 08:34:17 PM »

Just beat the game...

Phantom Hourglass NEEDED to have touchscreen controls. There, I said it. Despite the 3D engine, PH is essentially a 2D Zelda game and as such, needed to be something different from A Link to the Past. For me, LttP was the ultimate 2D Zelda, the epitome of its design. Every 2D Zelda post-LttP failed to capture the same feeling. That said, I appreciate and applaud the decision for touchscreen controls though the mapping items to the shoulder buttons was an welcome option.

Still, the new control method does not itself make the game original. Over half the game is typical Zelda fare. Same items, same puzzles, same structure (go to dungeon-->find weapon+keys-->beat boss-->get shiny thing-->repeat until final boss) and so on. The controls are also not perfect. Close, but still not perfect. There are times when the game doesn't register input. Not enough to ruin the experience, but it's still a minor nuisance.

The story was weak, but no surprises there (Zelda with a weak plot... you don't say?). It was kind of like the plots of Wind Waker and Link's Awakening arguably the 2 strongest Zelda plots combined into one much lamer storyline. Ocean King's true form = Fake Wind Fish.

In conclusion: Good game, weak story... most original Zelda in a while though not by much. Touchscreen controls are nice, but they don't change the series which is still too attached to its same old design and structure.

Kairon · « **Reply #299 on:** October 28, 2007, 09:05:11 PM »

I'm not done with the game yet, but I feel like it's been pretty inventive so far. For instance, the (boss spoiler)courage boss is so awesome because it's been the first time I can recall of that we actually see Link through the boss' eyes and actually have to change how we think of our controls in order to use the dual viewpoints to navigate Link(end boss spoiler).

News:

Author Topic: Zelda DS: Phantom Hourglass (Read 93118 times)