Topic: Zelda DS: Phantom Hourglass

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
I'm not done with the game yet, but I feel like it's been pretty inventive so far. For instance, the (boss spoiler)courage boss is so awesome because it's been the first time I can recall of that we actually see Link through the boss' eyes and actually have to change how we think of our controls in order to use the dual viewpoints to navigate Link(end boss spoiler).

PH stole from Turtles in Time Shredder boss= Confirmed

[Kairon]

Really? I gotta play that game again because I don't remember any awesome trickery for Shredder!

[GoldenPhoenix]

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Originally posted by: Kairon
Really? I gotta play that game again because I don't remember any awesome trickery for Shredder!

Haha, it was from his perspective though and you had to throw foot soldiers at him.

[Kairon]

...this was the SNES version? OH!!!!

I think I know what you're talking about. Haha. Not the same thing, but thanks for jogging the memory GP! I'm DEFINITELY buying TMNT IV:Turtles in Time if it comes out for VC!

[Kairon]

OMG beat the game!

Again, I really, really like this Zelda. It had almost nothing to drag my experience down, it was pure game, and I actually died on the final (multipart!) boss sequence through a combination of wear and tear and having to learn strategies. This game may technically be scaled back a bit for the DS, but that fight sure as hell wasn't, and it's a testament to Nintendo that they could get such an epic and unique mechanic in, in addition to the 3D, on the Nintendo DS hardware.Toweards the end the game practically sends you hurtling to the climax, and I was sorely tempted to tempted to keep pressing forward instead of drawing back whenever I died or got in a bad spot, tempted to try again  even though I was out of potions and had three hearts left.

[KDR_11k]

Stylus for NSMB? That was a simple button, I just used my thumb for that. Most people do NOT tolerate switching between buttons and stylus control. With touch screen controls I can throw the boomerang, immediately start slashing with the sword and still not develop a cramp from the dpad use.

Also remember that NSMB got panned for not improving the formula. Zelda is a puzzle-based game and you can only do so many puzzles with the items included in past games without resorting to context sensitive actions (which are the real failure of a puzzle game mechanic, once you resort to introducing new verbs to create puzzles you have reached failure). Changing the item mechanics allows for new puzzles.

[Mashiro]

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With touch screen controls I can throw the boomerang, immediately start slashing with the sword and still not develop a cramp from the dpad use.

I never got cramps doing that . . .

To each their own I guess I don't see the benefits of full on touch controls, it just doesn't appeal to me. It will never appeal to me in its current form and well that's that.

Oh and yeah I used the stylus for NSMB I can't stand getting my touch screen messed up with finger prints =)

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
Oh and yeah I used the stylus for NSMB I can't stand getting my touch screen messed up with finger prints =)

I don't understand why people don't get screen protectors. It's a simple solution that gets you TONS of peace of mind.

Oh, but even without one, this is a Nintendo product. If a little skin oil is gonna do more damage to the touchscreen than a sharp jab by the hard, unforgiving, plastic spear, then things are already beyond redemption.

[Mashiro]

I wasn't talking about damage just getting smudges on the screen, otherwise I am anal and have to clean it constantly.

If I don't have a problem taking out the stylus on the fly why wouldn't you understand me not getting a screen protector? I don't need one =)

ITT: People who can't stand how other people play their games.

[KDR_11k]

I've played Tingle (dpad for movement, stylus for actions), longer sessions make my left hand hurt because I have to counteract the force I exact on the dpad with one hand (similar effects with the analog sticks on the Wii classic controller but that's with two hands). This is why I don't want dpad+stylus. I have no such problem with PH.

I use the tip of my fingernail to avoid smudges, it's precise enough for games like Cv DoS (seal drawing).

[Nick DiMola]

I'm just about done with this game, and I must say I'm really disappointed by it. The controls were pretty crappy IMHO, I would much rather have used the D-Pad and buttons. The controls as a result dumb down the combat and made it frustrating to switch weapons on the fly without getting hurt. I felt like the game didn't have a ton of substance and it was far too linear. Redoing the Temple of the Ocean King 10 million times was just flat out irritating and pointless. Give me back my traditional Zelda. Slapping on a new control scheme doesn't all of sudden make the game innovative. 7.5 really was a spot on review and I couldn't agree more with the points made by Zach.

[GoldenPhoenix]

Mr. Jack you bring up a good point about getting hit when switching weapons. Even the boomerang left you vulnerable, I would have thought things would stop until you drew your line.  I also found switching to weapon use was somewhat cumbersome, definitely not as easy as previous Zeldas which utilized button selection.  

[Crimm]

See, once I got used to the fact there was some delay I would plan better.  I would go into a place after stunning the nearest guy with the boomerang.  Or I'd go in with the sword and rampage or somethin'.  I never tried to change weaposn when I'm in the middle of HELL!

[Mashiro]

So . . .  yeah got the boomerang . . . item controls . . . suck.

I'm not having any fun with this game, gonna trade it in within the hour.

[Kairon]

This is amazing how this game divides opinions!

Edit: How and where do you guys play your DS? Maybe that has something to do with our conflicting experiences. I play my DS in bed most of the time, meaning I don't really have to support anything: I just lie on my stomache, prop a pillow under my chest, and rest my forearms on the bed while I play. I have a perfect lighting situation and don't really need to support anything, and I never need to hold up the DS in mid-air.

Could trying to use touch screen controls with just the left hand supporting the DS in mid-air with no help be bothering you guys?

[Mashiro]

Actually as opposed to trading it in maybe I'll ebay it . . . trading it in would be kinda silly unless they give me like 25 dollars for it which I doubt.

[Kairon]

It's a pity you only got in as far as the boomerang Mashiro. Still, I guess if you're this opposed to the game, you'd know by now... *sigh*

For further proof of how this game is splitting opinions, look no further than a discussion between Newsweek's N'Gai Croal and MTV's Stephen Totilo, where some quotes involve:

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N'Gai Croal:...
And until the Phantom Hourglass, I'd never played a Zelda game--not for more than 20 minutes or so, at any rate. This shouldn't come as a surprise to careful readers of Vs. Mode, as I freely volunteered this in our very first exchange.
...
By contrast, I'm very much enjoying the controls for Phantom Hourglass. I wasn't worried that I'd feel differently--unlike those for Twilight Princess, they've been universally praised--but is it possible that they're even better than advertised? I think so. If the overwhelming sensation upon firing up Phantom Hourglass were charm, I'd say that its charm extends to its controls as well, because moving Link about using the stylus is at once precise and delightful. Because I kept dragging the stylus across the screen to direct Link's movements, it actually took me a while to consciously realize that Link moves to the point where I'm holding down the stylus as if drawn towards it by a magnet, but subconsciously, I'd figured that out from the start; proof of the Zelda team's intuitive setup.

I love the boomerang, especially the way that its sound effect makes me feel as though I'm slightly out of control whenever I trace out a trajectory for it to follow once I throw it. Ditto for swirling the stylus for Link's circle strike; tapping for his basic attack, firing his ship's cannon or making his ship jump over obstacles. The game has just enough twitch to engage and challenge my hands, but so far, not so much that it ever degenerates into stylus mashing. And as compelling as it is here, I hope that third party DS creators are taking copious notes, because the mechanics in Phantom Hourglass are both a revelation and a lodestar as to how action-adventure games for the platform should henceforth be developed. Eiji Aonuma and his team have cleverly figured out how to combine the stylus-driven controls and an isometric view in a way that replicates the feel of a 3-D game without the attendant camera issues. It reminds me of what Guerilla achieved on a much lesser scale with Killzone PSP, similarly opting for an isometric viewpoint rather than the first-person POV of its console predecessor. (Would that more developers followed suit rather than insisting on shoehorning FPS games onto the single-analog nub PSP.)
...

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Stephen Totilo...
Now, it may not have shocked life-long Vs Mode subscribers that The Legend of Zelda: Phantom Hourglass was your first Zelda. But it could just about hospitalize a few to find out that I think Phantom Hourglass could well be my last.
...
This Zelda brings new things that refine old traditions. Instead of maps being generated automatically, the game invites the player to write part of the maps themselves (the island that requires the player to do all of the mapping is among the game's most charming areas). This game uses touch control to finally ensure that bombs land where you were trying to throw them. This is all good.

But the game also back-steps on some fundamentals. The older games' telltale audio clank of a sword knocked against secretly breakable wall is replaced with telltale patterns on floors that might as well include a signs that read: "place bomb here." The signature Zelda move of forward-rolling to bash, to dodge or just to fill time has been mapped to the one touch-control misfire, an exercise in futile edge-of-screen stylus-scribbling.
...

Oh... but wait a second. Stephen Totilo LOVES the controls too, so I don't know what's up with you guys. &P:

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It's polished. Its graphics are splendid. Its controls are sublime--the main impetus for me nominating it as the best game of E3. It shows that Aonuma and team can make fantastic, enjoyable action-adventure. I mainly bristle at this game being a Zelda, because I am now ready to so thoroughly question the world's need for a new Zelda game. Someone like you comes along and says, if this is Zelda then what am I missing? You're missing Zelda at its finest. Technically it hits all the notes, but it doesn't sound them as well as previous Zelda games.

...Like I said, this game is something else...

[Mashiro]

Well look on the bright side, I'm going to trade in a bunch of my games and get guitar hero III for like 10 dollars if the prices on their site for trade ins are accurate =D

[Kairon]

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Originally posted by: Mashiro
Well look on the bright side, I'm going to trade in a bunch of my games and get guitar hero III for like 10 dollars if the prices on their site for trade ins are accurate =D

Yay third party sales!

Oh, and check out my editted post including some quotes from N'Gai Croal and Stephen Totilo about their views on PH.

[Mashiro]

Haha just got back, and I played Mario Galaxy too!

Man Galaxy controls like crap . . . LOL jkjk the game plays BEAUTIFULLY I can't wait to get it <3

I traded in a lot of heavy hitter games too which I rarely do but I am sure GHIII is worth it. going to rock out for a bit now bbl

[GoldenPhoenix]

Well Kairon, even I don't agree with all Mashiro's points. Personally from what I've played I'd probably give the game a solid 8 to 8.5. It is a let down but far from terrible. I would place it around Majora's Mask as one of my least favorite Zelda's (But still a good game, unlike Zelda 2 which is TERRIBLE).

[LuigiHann]

Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
ITT: People who can't stand how other people play their games.

Nah. More like: ITT, people who state their opinions as fact. People do it all the time ("this game sucks" etc) but it only becomes obvious in situations like this where the split in opinions is so  drastic. People simply expect others to agree with what they treat as fact, so it comes as a shock to hear someone disagree, and the natural reaction is to "correct" them.

[Kairon]

And what better way to correct them than with WORDSWORDSWORDS!!!

Walls of text are my correctional weapon of choice!

[GoldenPhoenix]

Quote
Originally posted by: LuigiHann

Quote
Originally posted by: Mashiro
ITT: People who can't stand how other people play their games.

Nah. More like: ITT, people who state their opinions as fact. People do it all the time ("this game sucks" etc) but it only becomes obvious in situations like this where the split in opinions is so  drastic. People simply expect others to agree with what they treat as fact, so it comes as a shock to hear someone disagree, and the natural reaction is to "correct" them.

Nah, I think people just like debating.

[Mashiro]

On an unrelated but related note . . . I am LOVING Guitar Hero III.

I am still not the best at it (anything above easy mode so far is a little challenging haha) but I am blasting my way through easy mode and loving every second of it.

So this week wasn't a total loss in gaming.

Between GHIII and Zack and Wiki (which I do enjoy ) I'll be putting my Wii to a lot of use!