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Episode 238: RFN Backstage Assault!

by James Jones, Greg Leahy, Jon Lindemann, and Jonathan Metts - April 10, 2011, 12:01 pm PDT
Total comments: 59

More 3DS, more Pokemon, more cult favorite Wii games, and a secret RetroActive?

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It's time for another action-packed episode of your favorite Nintendo podcast! James is up first in New Business with After Burner Climax, Ridge Racer 3D, and Protect Me Knight. Jon has an update on Pokemon Black/White and even claims to have made progress in Chrono Trigger. Greg wraps up Pilotwings Resort and launches a roundtable discussion on Mega Man X, which just hit Japan's Virtual Console. Both Jonny and James celebrated this event by digging out the Mega Man X Collection for GameCube, which also prompts some hardware impressions of the famous and wildly overrated Hori Digital Controller. After an extensive MMX conversation that could probably qualify as an impromptu RetroActive in its own right, Jonny concludes the segment with brief but damning observations on Fragile Dreams for Wii.

After a quick break, we jump into your fantastic Listener Mail. Topics include old games that may never be released again, specifics on 3DS implementation for DSiWare, the future of wrasslin' games on a certain new handheld, and the possibility of patches for buggy games like Tom Clancy's (TM) Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars.

RetroActive properly returns next week with Legend of the Mystical Ninja (SNES) -- be sure to play it for yourself and leave a few comments in the official forum thread! It's available worldwide on Virtual Console.

This podcast was edited by Greg Leahy.

Music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is used with permission from Jason Ricci & New Blood. You can purchase their newest album, Done with the Devil, directly from the record label, Amazon (CD) (MP3), or iTunes, or call your local record store and ask for it!

Additional music for this episode of Radio Free Nintendo is copyrighted to Nintendo, and is included under fair use protection.

Talkback

Retro DeckadesApril 10, 2011

When I saw the "Secret Retroactive" tag line, I immediately thought it would be Gradius (or at least it's first level).

happyastoriaApril 10, 2011

Jonny, I am surprised you didn't like Fragile Dreams. It makes me kind of sad.

Also, how can you say the character designs were ugly?! You're on crazy pills, man.

The main character, Seto, is a teen boy wearing some kind of bell-bottom vinyl dress with a huge man-purse (or fanny pack) hanging around his neck in front. Maybe this is normal in the world of anime androgyny, but it's still terrible character design.

happyastoriaApril 10, 2011

Quote from: Jonnyboy117

The main character, Seto, is a teen boy wearing some kind of bell-bottom vinyl dress with a huge man-purse (or fanny pack) hanging around his neck in front. Maybe this is normal in the world of anime androgyny, but it's still terrible character design.

Ugh, it's called style, Jonny. 

Matters of fashion taste aside, I'm interested to hear what you actually like about Fragile Dreams. I found the old NWR forum thread about the game, and despite many months of hype, it appears that most of the people in that thread were disappointed after actually playing the game.

happyastoriaApril 10, 2011

Fragile Dreams has many problems, but the story, atmosphere, and art direction more than make up for it. The voice acting is pretty good, and yeah, the guy who voices Seto sounds kinda cheesy, but I still enjoyed it.

What I love about the game is the little objects you find scattered around and how each of these object reveal a story, almost like a poem. I can go on but it's a bitch to write this on my phone, lol.

I agree that story, atmosphere, and art design are the game's best assets. I disagree, heartily, that they offset the mechanical problems or that they are particularly noteworthy. I stopped reading or listening to the "memories" after a while, because they weren't written or voiced well enough to hold my attention.

Adrock¸April 11, 2011

Blargh. So picky with your writing and acting. I kid. I regularly indulge in anime and anime-ish stuff and I admit there are shortcomings in the base material. That's not getting in to localization troubles or (sub)culture shocks.

Quote:

The main character, Seto, is a teen boy wearing some kind of bell-bottom vinyl dress with a huge man-purse (or fanny pack) hanging around his neck in front.

Looking at the art assets that are on site, it looks like the pack is attached to belt harnesses that go over the shoulder and around the side to connect to a back bag. As for the long blue outfit, I assume it gets chilly in the post-apocalypse and this was the way have an extra layer around his torso and thighs. That, or maybe this was the best he could find and got attached to it. Hmm, I must be far off the deep end if I make no objection to the fact that a boy is practically wearing a blue dress with a skirt. Even farther off that I think said dress looks a bit cute and looks a bit cute on him. Heh, a cute, creepy and melodramatic post-apocalypse story. I have yet to play the game but I imagine my guess as to its narrative isn't drastically far off.


I really enjoyed the Mega Man X discussion. I hope it makes it to North America's Virtual Console. I've never played much of the Mega Man X or the X series. Most of my Mega Man experience has been Mega Man 6, Mega Man Zero 1, and Mega Man Zero 4.



Also just to note. In Pokemon you can click on the new attack to see its stats.

LolmonadeApril 11, 2011

I don't recall having to use the shotgun ice charge move to get any E tanks in MMX. Let's see if I can remember them:

Storm Eagle: Use one of those cannon pillars to ride up to a tower, smash the glass and get the tank. (BTW, I'm pretty sure it's the airport that disables the powerplant, you see some debries from the airship at the end scattered in the plant)
Flame Mammoth: In a large room (after the buster upgrade IIRC) jump to the left wall and climb up until you reach the destructible blocks.
Spark Mandrill: Take the lower route at the start and use the boomerang to collect the tank.
Armored Armadillo: Drop to the left of the big mining machine and collect it.

Didn't use it for any heart tanks either:
Chill Penguin: Smash an igloo with a charged buster shot (or was it the flamethrower?)
Launch Octopus: Destroy the second ship and explore the cavern inside the crater it creates.
Storm Eagle: Boost-jump off the first platform lift to the left.
Armored Armadillo: Outrun the drilling machine enough and smash the ceiling with the helmet upgrade.
Boomer Kuwanger: Use the boomerang.
Flame Mammoth: Kill Chill Penguin first, walk across the lava.
Chameleon Sting: Before the falling rock tunnel/armor upgrade drop down into the hole, break the wall on the right and then boost-jump to the upgrade. Requires killing Launch Octopus first to make the water appear.
Spark Mandrill: Boomerang or just a well timed boost jump.

I used an ASCII pad back in the day, autofire really helped with many of the enemies in MMX.
The shotgun ice charge shot seems like it could have helped to get the buster upgrade early but you need the buster upgrade if you want to use it... Also it's pretty assholish that they give you the buster upgrade just before you fight a boss that you want to hit with the lv2 charge shot in his very short vulnerability window (I learned recently that a normal shot fired during the dash move will deal double damage...). BTW, Zero dies whether you have the buster upgrade or not. I guess they just wanted to show those special weapon charge shots off without praying that everybody grabs the hard to get buster upgrade capsule.

BTW, talking about Little Nemo, was I the only one who initially thought Disney made the movie?

farnhamApril 11, 2011

The attitude in the discussion about fragile dreams enraged me.

James made it clear in his review that the game is not for everyone. And some of the complaints that Johnny mentioned were legitimate (although James clearly warned anyone interested in the game about those aspects in the review). Indeed the silent hill and resident evilesque control scheme is not adequate anymore after RE4 and even aside of that the combat system is just plain bashing with sticks ie very boring

Yet i feel that a lot of the charming aspects were just degraded as.. strongpoints that only people that like "anime shit" would be interested about and any objections from james were just shut down by johnny in the end with a simple "i dont want to talk anymore about it". It feels like a conversation between friends that have different tastes and dont want to fight over it in sake of their friendship. but this is a podcast and i believe discussions over the pros and the cons are very important. especially as nobody outside of james actually cared for this game (which is very sad. i love tricrescendo and i loved the game as well)

Especially the mentioning of the bad writing or the horrible voiceacting got me wondering. I dont remember many games that moved me as much as fragile dreams did in some instances (the scene with the PF "dying" or the background story of various other characters as well as the background story of small objects in the game or in general how seto was left alone again and again and again). also this game has a dual language option and i still played it in english because i thought the english voiceacting was really good.

I dont demand anyone to like this game. I think it has flaws and I believe that it caters to a small portion of the world population. but degrading anyone that likes this to anime nerds liking anime shit and not even wanting to discuss the game after shitting on it is just going to far imo

I would have discussed Fragile Dreams for longer, but our segment was running quite long, and I was afraid that the more I talked about it, the more negative it would go. The phrase I used, hastily, was that you might like this game if you are "a whore for anime shit, like James." This was meant to be a personal jab at a friend, not an actual generalization.


I think numerous comments made on RFN have established my skepticism of anime and its brand of storytelling and character design. I also think most anime is poorly localized for English audiences. However, I am not strictly opposed to anime. I've seen every Miyazaki film and a couple of other Studio Ghibli films as well. I also enjoy some other anime films like Metropolis, and one of my favorite movies as a kid was Unico: The Last Unicorn. I also like Dragon Ball Z, at least up to the Cell Saga (haven't seen beyond that). Some of my favorite video games are the Trauma Center series, which very much has an anime presentation.


There are elements of the anime style that bug me, and the go-to stable of English voice actors used in many anime are anathema to my ears. James has a much higher tolerance for these things, as we've previously discussed for games like Sky Crawlers. So, I apologize for not being clear that I was poking fun at James, rather than launching a blanket insult to anime fans.


One of the major impediments to my enjoyment of Fragile Dreams is that most of the story elements are not presented while you're actually playing the game. I wouldn't be so critical of the writing, maybe even of the voice acting, if they were incidental and offered while I was controlling Seto and doing other things. Instead, you go to a save point and begin scrolling through pages of voiced text, which is mandatory and requires pounding buttons to skip through. At this point, you are essentially reading a book, and Fragile Dreams doesn't meet my standards for that format.


So here's my experience with Fragile Dreams: I play for five minutes through a third-person adventure with poor controls and boring mechanics, then sit down for a break to read dull, out-of-context personal memories narrated in an annoying manner. Sorry, I'd rather read through The Road again, or just play a different game.

happyastoriaApril 11, 2011

Jonny, you're crazy! First off, The Road is a masterful use of words; words so simple that you understand everything the second you read it. How can you insult that book? Ugh, secondly, I hate anime and I still enjoyed this game, unllike super meat boy which just leaves me flaccid everytime I play it.

farnhamApril 11, 2011

This is the scene i was talking about btw (mild spoiler alert)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybKsYzJ2z_M&feature=related#t=04m30s

you can judge by yourself if this qualifies as horrible writing, horrible voice acting, horrible presentation etc. etc.

also these are the short stories that were a big part of the narration in this game

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmCL417L5K4&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13vtK7iByPM&feature=related

once again i believe those are far from dull.. but whatever

Adrock¸April 11, 2011

Oh dear. It looks like more fragile nerves have been struck.

Quote from: happyastoria

Jonny, you're crazy! First off, The Road is a masterful use of words; words so simple that you understand everything the second you read it. How can you insult that book? Ugh, secondly, I hate anime and I still enjoyed this game, unllike super meat boy which just leaves me flaccid everytime I play it.

:( Hate is a strong word to level at a country's input in a medium where said input covers a vast array of genres and themes.

A little aside on the go-to stable of English VAs: While Fragile Dreams has VAs that I'm familiar with (Johnny Young Bosch being the most prominent), Sky Crawlers: Innocent Aces had voices that were new to me. I guess it doesn't matter much in the bigger auditorium of things since both games seem to have the same styles and pitches in their English voice work.

Quote from: farnham

This is the scene i was talking about btw (mild spoiler alert)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybKsYzJ2z_M&feature=related#t=04m30s

you can judge by yourself if this qualifies as horrible writing, horrible voice acting, horrible presentation etc. etc.

Ah, the death speech. Always seems to take so long even after you would think they would be dead already. It is par for course as anime-ish stuff goes.
This scene reminds me of something very much like it. (WARNING massive Valkryia Chronicles spoiler)
Valkyria Chronicles cutscene - A Dream Interrupted

I don't recall any of the podcast hosts who have Valkyria Chronicles for the Playstation 3 in their backlog digging in to. As I said before when the game was mentioned, I look forward to their impressions and thoughts on the quirky game.

Not to ignite anything else, but Jonny's distaste for Fragile Dreams make me glad I never tried it. He confirmed every reservation I had.

It seems like the kind of game that some people adore, and the majority of people don't care for.

farnhamApril 11, 2011

Quote from: NWR_Neal

Not to ignite anything else, but Jonny's distaste for Fragile Dreams make me glad I never tried it. He confirmed every reservation I had.

It seems like the kind of game that some people adore, and the majority of people don't care for.

I dont really care if people like or dislike something i like or dislike. different people different tastes. simple as that.

but calling people that like anime "anime shit" is just crossing the line imo.

farnhamApril 11, 2011

Quote from: Jonnyboy117

I would have discussed Fragile Dreams for longer, but our segment was running quite long, and I was afraid that the more I talked about it, the more negative it would go. The phrase I used, hastily, was that you might like this game if you are "a whore for anime ****, like James." This was meant to be a personal jab at a friend, not an actual generalization.

Just out of curiosity.

Nintendos games are mostly developed by japanese people. The art designer are often heavily influenced by "anime ****". Games like pokemon, zelda, kirby, donkey kong, mario, metroid all have that anime **** style all over them. the only games that are not really like anime **** are the realistic games (1080, wave race. although the illustrations for those games are borderline anime **** as well) and games that have simple styles like puzzle games or games with miis (which also feature a lot of anime **** googly eyes and super deformed porportions)

In other words, Nintendo games mostly feature art design that is essentially "anime ****".

why do you like nintendo games again ?

Quote from: Jonnyboy117

One of the major impediments to my enjoyment of Fragile Dreams is that most of the story elements are not presented while you're actually playing the game. I wouldn't be so critical of the writing, maybe even of the voice acting, if they were incidental and offered while I was controlling Seto and doing other things. Instead, you go to a save point and begin scrolling through pages of voiced text, which is mandatory and requires pounding buttons to skip through. At this point, you are essentially reading a book, and Fragile Dreams doesn't meet my standards for that format.

actually a lot of story fragments ar offered while you are controlling seto. there is a lot of stuff in the environment (drawings on the wall or abandoned shopping malls etc.) that makes you wonder about the events that happened or lead into a new section of the story.

Quote from: Jonnyboy117

There are elements of the anime style that bug me, and the go-to stable of English voice actors used in many anime are anathema to my ears. James has a much higher tolerance for these things, as we've previously discussed for games like Sky Crawlers. So, I apologize for not being clear that I was poking fun at James, rather than launching a blanket insult to anime fans.

the thing is.... you can just switch the japanese voices on.

cricarraApril 11, 2011

One of the worst podcasts in recent memory. The pokemon discussion was terrible. I'm not the EV/IV guys (Only ever played Red and Black) but a lot of the stuff you said just blew my mind. You guys dont know how to check the stats of the new move? Really? The evolution bitching? There is only one positive in not evolving a pokemon and the game DOES tell you. I also don't understand how the obssessive community can ruin your experience. That's just stupid. The annoying as **** fighting community has never taken away the fun of playing Street Fighter or any fighting game from me. I just play em the way I want and have fun. Pokemon is as simple or as complicated as you want it to be and you guys are trying to play it the complicated way even though you really wanna play it in the simplest form. It's your own fault not pokemons.

I also can't understand how you can bitch about Fragile Dreams story/character design but drool for anything and everything Final Fantasy and DragonQuest. My tastes and opinions usually never line up with Jonny and Jon/John so I'm not surprised, but it just bugs me when Greg and James don't throw in their two cents in and just let the conversation end with your opinion coming across as the final one that matters.

One a positive note I just realized three of you have J names wtf and hurray for a Zune marketplace feed.

farnhamApril 11, 2011

Quote from: cricarra

One of the worst podcasts in recent memory. The pokemon discussion was terrible. I'm not the EV/IV guys (Only ever played Red and Black) but a lot of the stuff you said just blew my mind. You guys dont know how to check the stats of the new move? Really? The evolution bitching? There is only one positive in not evolving a pokemon and the game DOES tell you. I also don't understand how the obssessive community can ruin your experience. That's just stupid. The annoying as **** fighting community has never taken away the fun of playing Street Fighter or any fighting game from me. I just play em the way I want and have fun. I also can't understand how you can bitch about Fragile Dreams story/character design but drool for anything and everything Final Fantasy and DragonQuest.

yeah i dont even want to bitch about the pokemon stuff but man i loled when i heard that you supposedly cant check the new move.. james and greg seem to be the only ones that actually play pokemon casually while the rest probably just beat one or two gyms and said f. it im outta here.

the whole community discussion was astounding as well. i mean you have a great source to go to if you have problems with the game. beating the game is easy enough to do it without a source (as james mentioned you can grind your way through the elite 4 anyways).

also i believe having hardcore communities actually helps enjoy a game a lot. i play a lot of starcraft 2 and i enjoy watching pros play the game (GSL and stuff) to improve my own strategy. I know i will never be able to beat someone like Slayers Boxer. But I enjoy watching him play and emulate his style in my own ladder matches

Quote from: cricarra

I also can't understand how you can bitch about Fragile Dreams story/character design but drool for anything and everything Final Fantasy and DragonQuest. My tastes and opinions usually never line up with Jonny and Jon/John so I'm not surprised, but it just bugs me when Greg and James don't throw in their two cents in and just let the conversation end with your opinion coming across as the final one that matters.


He just cut the discussion because "they had no time".

Wow, misunderstandings abound.


happyastoria, I do not hate The Road and did not say that I did. I love that book and in fact have another novel signed by Cormac McCarthy.


farnham, you are focusing on a phrase that I already explained was a joke, aimed at James. As noted, I do not think that all anime is ****.


cricarra, I was not complaining about devoted fan communities or about games with a lot of depth and choice. I was saying that I often regret looking at detailed, nuts-and-bolts guides to games like Pokemon and Demon Souls because the complexity of their gameplay systems is intimidating and makes me second-guess how I play the game. Of course it's a good thing that such guides exist.


It's not really James's style to pick apart what someone else has to say, but he probably would have defended Fragile Dreams in more detail if we hadn't been running so long on that segment. However, as he and Greg noted on the show (at my expense), his praise and caveats for that game have already been laid out thoroughly in past episodes and in the NWR review.

...and in every other review ever written about the game.

Ever.

In history.

It's like not knowing who won World War I.

Quote:

  He just cut the discussion because "they had no time".

Quote:

One of the worst podcasts in recent memory. The pokemon discussion was terrible. I'm not the EV/IV guys (Only ever played Red and Black) but a lot of the stuff you said just blew my mind. You guys dont know how to check the stats of the new move? Really? The evolution bitching? There is only one positive in not evolving a pokemon and the game DOES tell you. I also don't understand how the obssessive community can ruin your experience. That's just stupid. The annoying as **** fighting community has never taken away the fun of playing Street Fighter or any fighting game from me. I just play em the way I want and have fun. Pokemon is as simple or as complicated as you want it to be and you guys are trying to play it the complicated way even though you really wanna play it in the simplest form. It's your own fault not pokemons.

Quote:

Nintendos games are mostly developed by japanese people. The art designer are often heavily influenced by "anime ****". Games like pokemon, zelda, kirby, donkey kong, mario, metroid all have that anime **** style all over them. the only games that are not really like anime **** are the realistic games (1080, wave race. although the illustrations for those games are borderline anime **** as well) and games that have simple styles like puzzle games or games with miis (which also feature a lot of anime **** googly eyes and super deformed porportions)

In other words, Nintendo games mostly feature art design that is essentially "anime ****".

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee445/JD31797/pinata.jpg

lol.

I, too, have downloaded Mega Man X on the Japanese VC. I generally get burned every time I give Mega Man another try, but figured I hadn't really given Mega Man X a fair chance in the past. So far I'm moderately enjoying it, in spite of the problems you point out on the podcast (which apparently bother me more than they bother most). I find that I'm enjoying roughly half of the game a lot, and surviving through other parts. Like other Mega Man games, I find the level design to be too cynical at times. I suspect I'll grow fed up once I reach the castle stages, as I have with other Mega Man games. I don't like dying several times at bosses and then having to play an entire level over, particularly when I feel like I haven't learned anything about the boss patterns that I can bring forward to my next attempt. I don't like spikes of death, especially when sinisterly placed such as in the water level's mini-boss.

Anyway, yeah, It's a Mega Man game  :-\

Adrock¸April 11, 2011

Quote from: Jonnyboy117

...
I was saying that I often regret looking at detailed, nuts-and-bolts guides to games like Pokemon and Demon Souls because the complexity of their gameplay systems is intimidating and makes me second-guess how I play the game. Of course it's a good thing that such guides exist.
...

It was already mentioned in the show, but it's really important to not have such anxiety from reading game guides and reading too much of them. I have limited experience with Demon's Souls despite owning it. From what I've seen and played, a player can be alright by treating the guides as recommendations and not something to be a slave to. Sure, you will make mistakes and won't have a perfect story run, but I think that can be part of the RPG fun. I guess in Demon's Souls case such anxiety can't be easily relieved due to the game's well-earned reputation of severely punishing any mistake or impatience from the player.

Quote from: TheYoungerPlumber

....
Anyway, yeah, It's a Mega Man game  :-\

Mmm, sounds tasty. I almost beat Mega Man Zero without using any of the cyber elves. The last level(s) proved to be too frustrating with plain Zero so I bit the grade demerits and powered up. No regrets!

Kytim89April 11, 2011

Who does the Randay Savage impression at the end of the episode?

Retro DeckadesApril 11, 2011

It sounds like Jonny to me.

And speaking of Jonny, didn't he mention pining for some of the old, obscure 16-bit RPGs during the first listener mail response? I've recently acquired cartridges of SoulBlazer, Illusion of Gaia, Paladin's Quest (after his recommendation on Radio Trivia), Robotrek, and Secret of Evermore.

Excluding the last title, how awesome would it be to see some of these games show up on a retail release of an Enix Collection, or something of the sort? If priced right, it could even be a smart business move. Instead of releasing each game individually for 8 bucks on the Virtual Console, why not bundle a bunch and sell it for 35 or 40 bucks? You might get people spending more on the collection than buying them individually, especially if they only pick up one or two titles. Hell, pull a Kirby Super Star Ultra and release them on the VC once the collection has sold as much as it is going to.

farnhamApril 12, 2011

I dont want to shit anymore on this episode but i want to make a few things clear about wrassling games.

1. AKI did have 3 games on GC. Def Jam Vendetta and Fight for New York (Vendetta is a wrassling game. FFNY is not) and Muscle Man (Kinniku Man) which has gameplay similar to the WWE Allstars games (Airjuggles and such)
2. GC had 4 WWE Wrassling games and they were all developed by Yukes. But Yukes actually managed to make them very similar to the No Mercy line of WWE games. especially DOR and DOR2 are widely considered to be spiritual successors to that games due to similar grappling systems and similar reversal systems (and with similar i mean identical)

NinSageApril 12, 2011

An interesting episode.  I really think that most of it was quite good and enjoyable - the kind of RFN quality that I enjoy week in and week out.

I have but one gripe and then a few responses...

Gripe:
You really gotta know about things like checking new moves in pkmn before people go off on how atrocious the game design is.  I mean, hey, people make mistakes, but c'mon, you guys are better than that!

Responses:
1. I understand not wanting to play games "the right way" more than you guys could ever know.  But believe me, PKMN is the opposite of that kind of game.  The thing I love most about pkmn is the fact that you have NEAR INFINITE ways to craft the team YOU enjoy using most!  Even if you want to get into all the EV/IV/UV/TV bullsh*t, you still can choose what kind of TACTICS to employ.  Trust me.  Screw the guides, just relax and feel the game out for yourselves - you won't regret it.

2.  As for the MMX series.  1-3 are solid.  I thought X4 was friggin' BAD ASS.  X5 and 6 were kinda like "mmm, ok... wha?" and X7 was a cluster eff.  BUT .... X8 was an absolute return to glory as far as I'm concerned.  I loved that game so much and found it waaaaay better than every other game in the series except for X4.  I know that once a series starts to go downhill everyone assumes it just gets worse and worse.  But in my experience, X8 was truly the exception to that rule.

3. Jonny is absolutely entitled to his opinion on Fragile Dreams.  I consider myself pretty sensitive to unfair criticisms, and unnecessary jabs, but I think Jonny was justified in his critiques and I think it was obvious that he was poking fun more at his friend James than at the game or anime in general.

I, for one, am still greatly looking forward to playing the game as everything I've seen and heard makes me think I'll really love it.  The mechanics are apparently really bad, but, what can I say, things like atmosphere, story and aesthetic are where I derive the most enjoyment from my games!

4. I am very proud of the fact that I beat Solar Jetman back in the day.... it was an amazing gaming experience for its day and, to this day, still remains quite unique!!  .... I'd kind of love a modern remake ^_^

5. As for the "day one patch" mentality.  To me, the only reason it is an absolutely UNFORGIVABLE problem is because it means the developers cared more about getting the game out the door than they cared about me being able to play it in 10 years when that game-non-breaking patch is somehow unavailable.

One of the biggest ways the modern gaming industry is shooting itself in the foot is by making its products seem so fleeting in value. So many companies release a new iteration every year.  The multi-player competitive fixation makes the retail disc little more than a map pack with new weapons... and that's a real shame.

I appreciate my beloved games like classic films and I admire developers who create games with a similar mentality.  So I can't respect developers who start treating their products like direct-to-dvd films.  Made to cash in immediately but completely ignoring any long-term value. (granted, I understand actual budgets do not fit this analogy!)

Nintendo gets a lot of flak for taking a long time between games from a given franchise, but, lo and behold, when the games come out, they tend to become instant classics instead of flash-in-the-pan wonders! Go figure!

KisakiProjectApril 12, 2011

I really enjoyed Fragile Dreams.  In fact last spring RFN read my letter to James Jones.  Its to bad you can't appreciate it Johnny.  But to each his own.  But you encouraged other people not to play it instead of stating something like "if your tastes are like mine you won't enjoy this." Seems a bit hostile? But I'm not here to hate.  I think people should play it.  Sorry you didn't like it and felt like you wasted your time.

anandApril 12, 2011

Hey, I'm playing the exact same games as James! Weird. (Maybe not, since one was on sale, and the other is a launch game, but still...)

And I agree with Jonny about the Hori controller. The D-Pad is just too stiff, although maybe it would be better once worn in. I didn't know it was valuable, either. I should sell mine, as well.

Have you guys ever played GBA games on the GB Player with an arcade stick? Pretty awesome.

KisakiProjectApril 12, 2011

Thanks for the Panzer Dragoon plug.  I love those games.  I played all of them.  Also Johnny the story is the best.  Dunno why you don't enjoy it.  I love those games.  I literally just after 10 years of meaning to do it bought saga.  Its gotta be the most Unique 32 bit JRPG I've ever played.  I dunno if its worth $200 (unless your a hardcore Panzer fan like me) but from playing through the first disc of it this may be the best 32 bit game I've ever played.  After I beat it I'll make a topic for it in the non Nintendo forums.

I'll buy a Kinect to Play Project Draco if that wasn't vaporware.

anandApril 12, 2011

AfterBurner Climax is kind of like Panzer Dragoon.

NinSageApril 12, 2011


You know, I admittedly did not pay much attention to Nintendo in the N64/Gamecube days.  What can I say? I loved me some PlayStation.  Thus, I had never seen that Hori controller-ma-bob before.  It looks so awesome!! I know it's a bit gimmicky and the retention of the GC-style buttons is a bit silly... but I love the concept of it!

I remember when the GC came out I played it in an EB games and thought to myself: "this is unquestionably the strangest (worst?) controller I've ever held."  So that Hori deal might have been just what the doctor ordered!

Also, I played one of the Panzer Dragoon games at a friend's place in college.  It was really fun.  perhaps even more fun than the StarFox games I've played. .  Did SEGA have the rights to that franchise? I would love to see it make a comeback with controls like S+P2!

FZeroBoyoApril 12, 2011

Sometimes, I get a bit concerned about "playing the game wrong" which is why I tend to avoid guides. That said, I only go to Serebii.net to figure out which Pokemon can be found where, when and how they evolve, etc. I hardly use them for battle strategies and whatnot.


I really enjoyed the talk of wrestling games (Backstage Assault and the resulting stinger was priceless.) and I have played some of the N64 wrestling titles which were pretty good. I agree that they have to capture the feeling of wrestling more than trying to make it into a fighting game because it's really not as you said.

Killer_Man_JaroTom Malina, Associate Editor (Europe)April 12, 2011

Quote from: FZeroBoyo

Sometimes, I get a bit concerned about "playing the game wrong" which is why I tend to avoid guides. That said, I only go to Serebii.net to figure out which Pokemon can be found where, when and how they evolve, etc. I hardly use them for battle strategies and whatnot.

Same here. My use of guides for Pokémon is almost exclusively for the evolutions; in recent games, especially the Diamond and Pearl generation, a lot of the methods for evolving the new Pokémon have been really obscure. As well as there being new evolutions for Pokémon who didn't have them in previous generations, there's a lot of weird stuff like levelling up with a empty space in the party, or levelling up in a very specific location. I do wonder how anybody can be expected to figure some of that out for themselves.
Battle strategies, on the other hand, I'm not concerned about. I generally just try to keep my team as varied as possible in terms of types so that all my bases are covered.

KisakiProjectApril 12, 2011

How is it blasphemy to say Panzer Dragoon is better than Starfox?  Starfox is a cool engine form Dylan Cuthbert with some cute non offensive characters thrown on it.  Its basically an overly glorified tech demo.

PD is a tech demo to show off Saturn.  However Team Andormeda and Smilebit put in huge efforts.  They invented a language.  There are thousands of pages of art and back story.  I love Starfox but its sophomoric effort compared to Panzer Dragoon.

So nothing wrong with your statement Ninsage.

Also Sega does own the rights.  That's why the new game from M$ by the some of the key people from Team Andromeda is called "Project Draco."  Sega still has rights but god knows they would ruin a new PD unless it was the Valkyria Chronicles team doing an RPG of it.  But hell they woudls till ruin it cause they woudl replace th Moebius inspired art with MOE anime crap.

twingloxxApril 12, 2011

Regarding the bug in Ghost Recon Shadow Wars. It can be avoided simply by turning the wifi off while playing.


Not to excuse the exceptionally poor QA by Ubisoft, but it would be a shame if anyone missed out on one of the best 3DS games so far thinking it was unplayable.

gojiraApril 12, 2011

I have to disagree a bit with Jonny about being able to play Pokemon wrong.  With the inclusion of the move deleter, the move relearner and the option to buy many of the best moves in the game you can fix any goof you might have made.  And as someone mentioned earlier, you can see the stats of a new move.

Because of this I always play Pokemon 99% of the way through just using the ones I think look cute or cool or whatever.  Once I get to the Elite 4 then I usually need to look to the web to tweak my team a bit.

I think some of those features are new to the series? I played many hours of Diamond, but over half of that was digging for fossils. The actual Pokemon gameplay disappointed me, as it hadn't changed much since I'd played Blue and Crystal. That's why I have skipped the series ever since and am still waiting to see if they ever overhaul it.

NinSageApril 12, 2011

Ah, I suppose that could be.  I've only played Platinum, SoulSilver and now White.  So maybe it was a change for Generation 4+?  Can any long, long timers confirm/deny??

As for the inch-worm's pace at which the franchise makes improvements, I have to say that there are some aspects of the games that remain frustratingly unchanged.  So much so that not long ago I made a blog post about not playing anymore PKMN games until they made an official MMO.  Which, I really think is the "manifest destiny" of the series.  I know some poke-fans would wildly disagree with me.  But, doesn't the franchise seem like it's basically just an MMO where everyone plays separately?

But, not long after that post, I saw some of the artwork for the game and heard about some of the new online features and well, I bit hook line and sinker.  As of right now, I don't regret it at all.  I'm loving the new game and am loving crafting my perfect team.

Killer_Man_JaroTom Malina, Associate Editor (Europe)April 12, 2011

Quote from: NinSage

Ah, I suppose that could be.  I've only played Platinum, SoulSilver and now White.  So maybe it was a change for Generation 4+?  Can any long, long timers confirm/deny??

I'm fairly sure all of those elements have been around since at least the Gold and Silver generation, and you've always been able to check your stats during the forget/learn move process even going back to Red and Blue.

Anyway, the majority of gameplay advancements to the Pokémon franchise that I yearn for are related to the structure of the game. The battle system, at this point, is totally sound in my view.

gojiraApril 13, 2011

The move deleter was definitely added in Silver.  Because I had taught my Mewtwo strength.  :-[  And I was able to transfer him over to silver to have him forget it

VuduApril 13, 2011

I thought PKMN was short for Pikmin, not Pokemon. I feel like I just cracked the Nintendo Da Vinci Code.

VuduApril 13, 2011

Fragile is what Ico wishes it was.

As for the Xbox Live Indie Game making you blow the dust out of the cartridge, Dark Void Zero on DSiWare (great game, by the way) makes you do that too, and you actually have to blow into the microphone to do it. As you might expect, it's cute the first couple times, and then just annoying.

BroodwarsApril 14, 2011

I have the Hori Digital controller which I bought, ironically, on a stop I made when slogging through the snow to UncleBob's Faceball event and I have never used it.  I don't even know where its at right this sec.

Formula for an X game:

1.  Start with Superflous intro stage.
2.  Scattered enhancements away from boss.
3.  Make Animal Robots Villians.
4.  Add some Angst.
5.  Kill Zero.

Mammoths leaping ability are like Leopards didn't you know that.

There is a lot of X in Zero series.  Not sure about the newest one.

RE4 is the first one I liked to.  Even though I didn't slaughter through it till the Wii version.

I hate when they send you back like that.  One of the reason I didn't finish WW.

A SpaceShip Bird ;D .

If your going to do an Info Break I demand Funny Ads come back.

Like the BBC losing Doctor Who things.

Quantum Fighter.

Yes Dear god Yes.  Blast Corp and Jet Force Gemini.

Like Ratchet and Clank a lot on the PS3. Need to get the second game.

We did get a Pong Remake back in the day and it was good.

Intillevision was the one with the dial on it right and the slide in overlays. (How else would you play Tron with its native controls?)
There was a Robber and Burglar sort of like Pacman game that was really good. 

Seen Claymates but that whole Claymation on SNES was sort of weird.  There was a game like that with an environmental theme on the NES that I remember being good but I can't remember the name.

Crystalis was a pain till the God Sended guide the Nintendo Power was released. (Wish the old style comics from then would come back.)

I like to play all of the Mother series.

Little Nemo is a game I always wantted to play.

I don't remember the world getting destroyed, everyone mutated, and a floating city in 1999 I think that was the date in the original Crystalis.

I want the Panzer series.

Have you tried the Download stations with the 3DS.  A DS download station connection will throw you into the DS operating system.  I figure the DSiWare shop will be the same.

I hate the point system.  I had to get 1000 point to buy the 800 point game for the Retroactive.

Thats not true.  They gave us a video with dogs in it in an update.

It is expensive and I was at the DS launch this has to be better then that.

Zelda will fulfill the tradition set by TP and have a dual Wii/Super Wii launch. :P: : : : : : : : : :

Conduit Forever.

Pandora for eShop Confirmed :P: : : : : : : : : .  Seriously would you rather have the PS3 first FF where you see it for years?

Of course wrestling will use 3D.  I hope it uses the motion sensing and the Camera.

and I would love the N64 Boomerange control come back.. (Still mad Sony copped out on changing the PS3 controller.)

Just putting in the depth would be nice in a wrestling game.  Just don't force it in.

I hear that Shadow War has a problem.  Ah there it is.  I like to see every version of the Advance War series have a show on 3DS.

You said it. Ubisoft is a big company.  Lets of Process and Red tape.

What stops from writing directly to the cart for patches?  It is flash in the end.

Honestly you have a known system and with known input.  There shouldn't be any game breaking problems in a shipped game.  I'm ok with patches to fix artifacting bugs and like but not gamebreaking bugs.

Every game most people play today on PC so you have to first thing get a patch of some sort.

I know people to this day can't get wired and don't have wireless to a console.

Yes you would.  Later game comes with that patch.

The formula for a Mega Man Zero game is the same as an X game, but replace Zero with X and X with Zero


1.  Start with Superflous intro stage.
2.  Scattered enhancements away from boss.
3.  Make Animal Robots Villians.
4.  Add some Angst.
5.  Kill X.

BroodwarsApril 14, 2011

Quote from: Crimm

The formula for a Mega Man Zero game is the same as an X game, but replace Zero with X and X with Zero


1.  Start with Superflous intro stage.
2.  Scattered enhancements away from boss.
3.  Make Animal Robots Villians.
4.  Add some Angst.
5.  Kill X.

Except add in "Throughout give away the huge secret."  The First Zero game was much better when I played it in Japanese and didn't know it was       X    at the end.

Yeah, what should have been a secret final boss...not so much.

Fiendlord_TimmayApril 14, 2011

It's virtually impossible to screw yourself over in Pokemon. There is no random stat generation between levels, so the only reason you would ever worry about evolution is when considering what moves you want to learn. And with things like the move relearner, there is really no "optimal level" at which to evolve a pokemon. Also, TMs are now reusable, which makes it even easier to teach your pokemon good moves.

I do agree that the game does a poor job of teaching you these mechanics, but honestly anything works ingame. If you care enough about the more complex aspects of the game, you're probably using a guide anyway.

BroodwarsApril 14, 2011

TM's are re-useable now.  Then what is the purpose of HMs??

Adrock¸April 14, 2011

Quote from: Ceric

TM's are re-useable now.  Then what is the purpose of HMs??

To be keys to locked doors.

Fiendlord_TimmayApril 14, 2011

Yeah, but why can't we just overwrite them with another move? Gamefreak insists on keeping the tradition of the move deleter alive. Oh Gamefreak. They're moving in the right direction, but they're moving about 10 years slower than everyone would like them to.

yoshi1001April 14, 2011

Jonny-The Big Lebowski may not be coming to Blu-Ray (at least in the US), but guess what is. The world is fair.  ;D

BroodwarsApril 14, 2011

I remember when the original movie came out and I had to sneak to see it with my Dad where no one would catch me because I was in High School at the time and I also wanted the Mew card just to have it.

Adrock¸April 14, 2011

Quote from: yoshi1001

Jonny-The Big Lebowski may not be coming to Blu-Ray (at least in the US), but guess what is. The world is fair.  ;D

Hmm. Miramax has rights for the 4th (Celibi) movie and 6th (Jirachi) movie so I wonder why it's the 5th and 7th movie. Hmm, maybe the 4th one already has a Blu-Ray.
I'm tempted to get it if only in the hopes of color fixes to the 5th movie. However, the lack of the Japanese version is disappointing. Expected, but disappointing for my Japanophile heart. Oh, it's in 16:9? Hmm, I gotta dig up my DVD copy to see if/when they started having the widescreen version on DVD.

LolmonadeApril 15, 2011

16:9 is widescreen on a DVD? I thought these days all movies are 2.35:1.

BroodwarsApril 15, 2011

Quote from: KDR_11k

16:9 is widescreen on a DVD? I thought these days all movies are 2.35:1.

Annoys the snot out of me remember back when I first got my HD TV somethings would do 16:9 but know that HDTV's are more prevalent I get a bunch of Widescreen with black bars.

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