Wii

North America

New Play Control! Pikmin

by Zachary Miller - March 19, 2009, 12:08 pm PDT
Total comments: 59

8

Who picked the Pikmin before Olimar showed up?

I never played the original Pikmin for the GameCube, but my friends told me that, generally, it was a very good game. My own hesitation sprang from the fact that I may be the worst real-time strategy player on the planet. My experiences in the genre began and ended with the first two Warcraft games; Starcraft was too much of a challenge for me. Of course, I was quite young, and with age and experience comes patience, so maybe I’d like the genre more now. Even so, those early failures have prevented me from even touching the genre for years afterwards. A foolish mistake, perhaps, and one that has (until now) stopped me from experiencing the joy that is Pikmin.

Pikmin is the story of a miniature space delivery man, Olimar, and his quest to recover the scattered parts of his ruined ship after an unfortunate encounter with a meteor fragment. Olimar crash-lands on a planet not entirely unlike our own, populated by a wealth of arthropods and familiar vegetation. The problem is that Olimar is about two inches tall. Flowers tower overhead, beetles stomp around like dinosaurs, and the smallest puddles become hazardous lakes! However will our hero repair his ship? With the help of Pikmin, of course! These tiny plant-like critters eagerly follow Olimar around and are perfectly willing to do his bidding. He can command up to 100 of the little fellows at a time and dole out orders accordingly. Have your yellow Pikmin bomb a roadblock while the reds take out a giant beetle and the blues build a bridge! Each Pikmin color has its own strength: reds are fire-resistant and deal more damage than the other colors, so they are good fighters. Blues can wade through water unharmed and build bridges. Yellows can carry and use bomb rocks for blowing up roadblocks.

You recruit Pikmin by finding power pellets (they’re everywhere) and having your Pikmin drag them back to their homes (Onions). The pellet is sucked up and more Pikmin pop out and await Olimar to pluck them from the ground. The key here is that the color of the power pellet doesn’t matter very much—more important is the predominant color amongst the Pikmin who are carrying it. If you want to recruit more reds, have reds drag the power pellets! If you give a red pellet to a blue Pikmin, he will turn the pellet into more blues. However, matching pellet and Pikmin colors will yield additional troops. Pellets come in all sizes, each helpfully displaying the number of Pikmin required to move it. Some require many Pikmin to drag it back to the Onion—up to twenty! Defeated enemies can also be carried back to the Onions, and the more Pikmin than required that are carrying an object, the faster it will go!

Pikmin have three power levels: leaf, bud, and flower. The longer you leave a Pikmin seed in the ground, the more powerful it will become. Additionally, Pikmin will drink nectar they find on the ground, which powers them up. The power level determines their running speed, carrying speed, and damage potential: an army of flower Pikmin will never stray behind Olimar and haul swag fervently!

Olimar has thirty days to collect all thirty pieces of his ship, and each day lasts roughly fifteen minutes. Since each landscape you visit is so different, you can spend entire days just exploring and getting the lay of the land, and, indeed, this may be good planning on your part. Most structures and enemies don’t reset overnight, so it’s good to spend a day blowing up roadblocks, building bridges, and taking out the most headache-inducing enemies so that you’re free to roam around looking for spaceship parts in subsequent days. And if you feel like you’re lagging, you can restart your game from any previous day, although that will overwrite any progress you’ve made since then.

The game utilizes the Wii Remote wonderfully, and you really only need to worry about four commands. You move Olimar with the control stick, dismiss your Pikmin into groups (for easy sorting) with C, throw an individual Pikmin with A, tell the entire group to do something with down on the D-pad, and call your Pikmin with B. Calling Pikmin re-activates dismissed Pikmin and stops active Pikmin from whatever it is they’re doing to come back to you. The rest of the D-pad controls the camera. The Wii Remote’s pointer functionality works great for aiming your tosses and recalling distant groups of Pikmin, and really streamlines what I imagine was a more complicated process of estimation on the GameCube.

Of course, leading a group of one-hundred Pikmin has its downsides, too. With a group that large, accidentally running into sleeping enemies becomes a liability. Also, Pikmin have a bad habit of getting caught up on the environment’s geometry and automatically dismissing themselves because they aren’t brainy enough to go around a tree root instead of through it. Yellows could be a whole lot more accurate with their bomb-rock placement. If you don’t act quickly, your entire squad could get blown to smithereens because the idiot yellow placed the bomb way too close to the group. It quickly becomes apparent that the best way to do things is to take your Pikmin through levels color-by-color rather than in a mixed group, giving each color group a certain task and letting everyone work separately, but simultaneously, to accomplish a goal. There will definitely be times where you will need to oversee a group’s success—almost every enemy encounter requires your presence (which can slow things down, honestly)—but on the whole, the Pikmin are good about completing tasks given to them.

Pikmin's daily time limit is concerning, though. Rather than feeling a sense of freedom and wonder, daily searches feel more like frenzied rushes filled with worry as the sun moves across the sky (helpfully displayed on a meter at the top of the screen). If you ignore the ticking clock and don’t get your Pikmin safely to their Onions at sunset, the planet’s nocturnal horrors will run around and gobble up the stragglers. I actually restarted my game after 12 in-game days because I’d only found 10 parts, and it took me about that long to really get comfortable with a routine.

Fortunately, the game bombards you with helpful tips and tutorials, so it’s a pretty easy game to get the gist of. And once it clicks for you, Pikmin is a very fun, rewarding game. There’s just something about watching your army haul back a bounty from a hard day’s work that’s very satisfying.

Score

Graphics Sound Control Gameplay Lastability Final
8 8 9 7 9 8
Graphics
8

The graphics are barely changed from the GC version, with the only addition being true widescreen support (no sidebars here) and tutorial schematics showing the Wii Remote instead of the GC controller. Even so, the organic worlds are beautiful. The creatures you encounter look a little blocky at times, especially the red beetle things.

Sound
8

The music isn’t exactly catchy, but it’s pleasant and fits the game well. Your Pikmin make cute little sounds—it’s almost tragic when reds and yellows drown, or any of your troops are eaten by an enemy!

Control
9

The controls couldn’t be simpler, although you may have to move the camera around to get the best view of where the pointer is in relation to an enemy. Using the on-screen cursor to toss Pikmin onto larger enemies takes some getting used to because you have to estimate how high a Pikmin will go, not how far.

Gameplay
7

I can’t stand the time limit! Luckily, achieving your goals is always fun and satisfying, which motivates you continue playing. But really, just five or ten more days would have given Pikmin a much more relaxed pace.

Lastability
9

It will take you a pretty long time to learn the layout of the levels with enough detail that you can successfully acquire all 30 parts of your ship without a hitch. And after playing the main game for awhile, Challenge mode gives you a whopper of a variation on the main game. I won’t ruin that surprise.

Final
8

Pikmin is a great game that’s weighed down by the frustrating time limit and hiccups in Pikmin behavior. It's hard to imagine how people played the original game with a GC controller, because the Wii setup is just so elegant. It can take a while to get into the flow of the game, but once you do, you're hooked. If you already have Pikmin for the ‘Cube you probably don’t need this version, but if you’ve never played it before, now’s your chance!

Summary

Pros
  • A simple RTS that anyone can get into
  • Beautiful levels and enmies that are both comical and fearsome
  • The elegant control scheme makes commanding your army a snap
Cons
  • Pikmin often get stuck or goof off
  • The time limit feels artificial and is frustrating
Review Page 2: Conclusion

Talkback

GoldenPhoenixMarch 19, 2009

Quote:

especially the red beetle things

AHEM, it is called a Bulborb, and I'm not even a big fan of Pikmin (though the Bulborb are adorable). Let's be a bit more professional ehhe, instead of calling it the red beetle thing. ;)

j/k

AVMarch 19, 2009

i love the game i bought it yesterday. Using down on control pad doesn't seem to be as functional as I would have liked.

I don't mind the time limit I always liked the idea of being rushed. I hope Pikmin2 New Play control add online to 2 player and clean up the frame-rate which sometimes dropped.

PaleMike Gamin, Contributing EditorMarch 19, 2009

I honestly can't believe people still hope that Nintendo will add online to old games.  It won't happen Vega. Don't get your hopes up.

GoldenPhoenixMarch 19, 2009

Quote from: Pale

I honestly can't believe people still hope that Nintendo will add online to old games.  It won't happen Vega. Don't get your hopes up.

True, though I do think there is a chance the framerate could be cleaned up in Pikmin 2, they seem to be "enhancing" the visuals a bit.

TJ SpykeMarch 19, 2009

Has anybody here who played the GameCube version played the Wii version? I loved the original and am thinking about getting this since it's $30 (although I am waiting for "New Play Control! Pikmin 2" more).

TansunnMarch 19, 2009

I was hoping the review would have been done by someone who'd played the original so we could get a feel for how well the controls were adapted.  At least they seem to be good enough that a Pikmin newbie can get them figured out.

Mop it upMarch 19, 2009

Quote:

The time limit feels artificial and is frustrating

That's not what I wanted to hear. You had to restart after 12 game days? Bummer. That's the kind of thing that would really bother me.

I just can't make a decision on this one. I'm not that into strategy games but with this one sounding more unique and less difficult than your average RTS it might be okay. However, that whole system of the 30-day time limit sounds like the type of thing which could destroy the game for someone like me, as the time system in The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask completely prevented me from getting into the game.

Still, it's a Nintendo series I've never played before... Surely I must try it out? Augh... indecision...

ZapMarch 19, 2009

Weak sauce. There are time limits in real life and the game is short enough that a second playthrough isn't so daunting

UltimatePartyBearMarch 19, 2009

Quote from: GoldenPhoenix

Quote from: Pale

I honestly can't believe people still hope that Nintendo will add online to old games.  It won't happen Vega. Don't get your hopes up.

True, though I do think there is a chance the framerate could be cleaned up in Pikmin 2, they seem to be "enhancing" the visuals a bit.

With a whole extra GameCube taped on, fixing the framerate should be free.


Is hitting down on the D-pad supposed to replace shifting the Pikmin horde with the C-stick?  I'd really like to hear about how that compares.

NinGurl69 *hugglesMarch 19, 2009

Nintendo provides an opportunity for players to exercise critical thinking and develop time management skills, yet people bottle up in fear and avoid it.  Nintendo gamers fail, again.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterMarch 19, 2009

Quote from: Mop_it_up

Quote:

The time limit feels artificial and is frustrating

That's not what I wanted to hear. You had to restart after 12 game days? Bummer. That's the kind of thing that would really bother me.

I just can't make a decision on this one. I'm not that into strategy games but with this one sounding more unique and less difficult than your average RTS it might be okay. However, that whole system of the 30-day time limit sounds like the type of thing which could destroy the game for someone like me, as the time system in The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask completely prevented me from getting into the game.

Still, it's a Nintendo series I've never played before... Surely I must try it out? Augh... indecision...

TRY...IT.

Dude, we have told you time and time again that the only way you can understand Pikmin is if you play it yourself.

We have already told you that there are many ways of playing game even with the time limit. What Halbred says is merely HIS OPINION and, no offense Hal, shouldn't be taken as fact. Pikmin is an experience that differs from person to person so its hard to determine.

Once more, play it. Rent it, buy it, borrow it, steal it whatever. Just play it because you'll be confused and drenched in fear and won't understand it. And when you do don't be scared and just enjoy. Hell, use a guide or YouTube videos if you have to.

Mop it upMarch 19, 2009

But... What about Pikmin 2? Not only do most people claim it's the better game, but it has also done away with the thirty day limit. If I like the game, I could then buy the first one at that point and would likely be able to handle the 30-day limit because I'd already be used to the game. It might be best if I just wait for it to be released instead.

Although... I hear your point about overcoming fear to reach enjoyment. It reminds me of a famous quote, "Until you're brave enough to lose sight of the shore, you'll never experience the fear of being lost at sea." Wait, I don't think that's right...

StratosMarch 19, 2009

Quote from: Mop_it_up

But... What about Pikmin 2? Not only do most people claim it's the better game, but it has also done away with the thirty day limit. If I like the game, I could then buy the first one at that point and would likely be able to handle the 30-day limit because I'd already be used to the game. It might be best if I just wait for it to be released instead.

Although... I hear your point about overcoming fear to reach enjoyment. It reminds me of a famous quote, "Until you're brave enough to lose sight of the shore, you'll never experience the fear of being lost at sea." Wait, I don't think that's right...

I'm with Pap, try it. With all due respect to Halbred -whose review was well done and did a great job explaining the game and it's Wii features- the time limit is not a big issue. Hal didn't need to restart the game. 10 parts in 12 days is great progress and he could still have 'beaten' the game within that time frame. Go get it, it is fun and well worth it for the uninitiated. And just to clarify, you don't need to get all of the parts to leave the planet. There are about five parts that are not essential to leaving the planet successfully. And even if you don't get enough parts, the alternate ending in that case isn't horrible. I won't spoil it but it is an interesting ending. Worth seeing once I would say.

NinGurl69 *hugglesMarch 19, 2009

Pikmin 2 is RPG-FREAKING-LONG even with the skills developed in Pikmin 1.  Having a "time limit" doesn't make sense with respect to Pikmin 2.

Pikmin 1 can be beaten in a COUPLE SCHOOL NIGHTS, but it's still a very pure embodiment of its concept and features.

Mop it upMarch 19, 2009

Fine, fine, I'll get it, it's been over seven years after all. However, I'll probably get the original GameCube version because it is cheaper, though we'll see...

Quote from: Stratos

And even if you don't get enough parts, the alternate ending in that case isn't horrible. I won't spoil it but it is an interesting ending. Worth seeing once I would say.

If it in any way involves Olimar dying then I don't want to see it...

I'd just like to clarify that I wasn't getting crap done during my initial playthrough because I was busy trying to figure out the game mechanics and the best way to get multiple things done at once. On day 12, it finally "clicked" for me, and I restarted so that I could enjoy myself. And yeah, I'm getting parts a LOT quicker now, usually I stay about one day "behind," in that if it's day 10, I've collected 11 or 12 parts. Which is awesome.

It's really a game of discovery. For example, if you're having trouble getting your Pikmin up a slope or across a narrow stretch of land (bordered by water), try tossing them instead of leading them. Much safer. Spent a whole day cleaning out baddies with reds, blowing up roadblocks with yellows, and building bridges with blues. The next day, hike your Pikmin out in separate units and haul back like three or four ship parts at once. It really pays off! These are all things I discovered LATE in my first playthrough, so I started again with that information fresh in my mind, and I really, REALLY love the game now.

So yeah, Mop, you've gotta try it. Like I said, it takes a little while to "get" the game, but once you do, it's a whole new experience. The time limit still kind of sucks in that there might be times where you have to "waste" an entire day going after one or two parts (that you didn't get to the previous day) but you can spend the rest of that day increasing your numbers and upgrading your troops (with nectar).

You'd be surprised at how quickly a 15-minute day passes you by!

No! Mop! The Wii version is only $30, and according to Mike Cole, who edited the review and has played the GC game, the controls on the Wii are far superior, if for no other reason than the ability to aim your throws and call dismissed Pikmin from a distance!

GoldenPhoenixMarch 19, 2009

Quote from: NinGurl69

Pikmin 2 is RPG-FREAKING-LONG even with the skills developed in Pikmin 1.  Having a "time limit" doesn't make sense with respect to Pikmin 2.

Pikmin 1 can be beaten in a COUPLE SCHOOL NIGHTS, but it's still a very pure embodiment of its concept and features.

And Pro presents us with the reason why time limits are implemented in games, it is a way to extend the length of a game that is considered short, but unlike other game extenders the time limit is the lamest.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterMarch 19, 2009

Quote from: Mop_it_up

Fine, fine, I'll get it, it's been over seven years after all. However, I'll probably get the original GameCube version because it is cheaper, though we'll see...

Quote from: Stratos

And even if you don't get enough parts, the alternate ending in that case isn't horrible. I won't spoil it but it is an interesting ending. Worth seeing once I would say.

If it in any way involves Olimar dying then I don't want to see it...

The Wii version is far more forgiving, get this version instead.

StratosMarch 19, 2009

Quote from: Mop_it_up

Fine, fine, I'll get it, it's been over seven years after all. However, I'll probably get the original GameCube version because it is cheaper, though we'll see...

Quote from: Stratos

And even if you don't get enough parts, the alternate ending in that case isn't horrible. I won't spoil it but it is an interesting ending. Worth seeing once I would say.

If it in any way involves Olimar dying then I don't want to see it...

Mop_it_up I'm spoilering the response about Olimar but He doesn't die, that's for sure. He also doesn't leave the planet.

NinGurl69 *hugglesMarch 19, 2009

Quote from: GoldenPhoenix

Quote from: NinGurl69

Pikmin 2 is RPG-FREAKING-LONG even with the skills developed in Pikmin 1.  Having a "time limit" doesn't make sense with respect to Pikmin 2.

Pikmin 1 can be beaten in a COUPLE SCHOOL NIGHTS, but it's still a very pure embodiment of its concept and features.

And Pro presents us with the reason why time limits are implemented in games, it is a way to extend the length of a game that is considered short, but unlike other game extenders the time limit is the lamest.

Not really.  When the game "clicks" with you, you have no trouble racing against the clock, and you end up overwhelming the game with your prowess and you end up finishing the game with time to spare, making the game shorter than its own "time limit."  This game's time limit is set, and does not make the initial run last longer.

When time limits are carefully designed for defined bursts of gameplay, like a race lap, that encourages REPLAY thru the player's own desire for practice/personal accomplishment/personal improvement/personal best/things like that.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterMarch 19, 2009

The "bad" ending to Pikmin is quite comical. I actually managed to screw my days just to see it, and it wasn't as depressing as I thought.

StratosMarch 20, 2009

Quote from: pap64

The "bad" ending to Pikmin is quite comical. I actually managed to screw my days just to see it, and it wasn't as depressing as I thought.

It would have made for an interesting sequel if that ending was the real one.

TJ SpykeMarch 20, 2009

The bad ending, that is the one you get if you fail to get the 25 required parts in 30 days, right? That was pretty funny.

For those new to the game, you only need 25 of the 30 parts. The problem is that if you don't use a guide you could end up wasting time getting one of the 5 non-needed parts (like the Massage Machine). I was just checking GameFAQs and apparently it's possible to beat the game in just 9 days. That is not an easy task though since it's basically a speed run.

broodwarsMarch 20, 2009

Just out of curiosity, did they fix that glaring bug from the original version involving bomb-carrying Yellow Pikmin?  In the original, when you whistled for Pikmin carrying bombs, they wouldn't drop their bombs and run over to Olimar like every other Pikmin does.  Instead, they'd just drop their bombs and stand right where they were, so you had to whistle again to get them to run over and usually you lost a couple that didn't get out of the blast radius in time.  Man, that was obnoxious.  Your review seems to hint that that stupid bug is still in the game, but I'd just like that clarified.

broodwarsMarch 20, 2009

Incidentally, I far prefer the original Pikmin to its extremely bloated and boring sequel (randomly-generated dungeon crawling 4 de boardum!).  The time limit gives a huge sense of urgency, as does Olimar's daily logs.  And agan, unless your name is Persona nothing good ever comes of randomly-generated dungeons.

TJ SpykeMarch 20, 2009

It wasn't that bad, you just had to make sure you blew your whistle right away the second time. If they didn't change it then I would suspect it wasn't a bug, but rather designed that way on purpose.

I liked the random dungeons in Pikmin 2 (except when I got a particularly bad design that would make it almost impossible to beat).

roger6106March 20, 2009

I played through the first game a few times, and I really liked it. I tried the second game, but it annoyed me so much I never finished it. In the first game there was always quite a few parts that you could get, even if you didn't have all the Pikmin types yet. In the second game you can get a little bit on one level, then you had to go to the next level and get a new Pikmin type, etc. I hate it when games force lots of running around just to make it a longer game. I also didn't like the dungeons. It seemed to me like most of the changes were made just to lengthen the game.

broodwarsMarch 20, 2009

Quote from: roger6106

I played through the first game a few times, and I really liked it. I tried the second game, but it annoyed me so much I never finished it. In the first game there was always quite a few parts that you could get, even if you didn't have all the Pikmin types yet. In the second game you can get a little bit on one level, then you had to go to the next level and get a new Pikmin type, etc. I hate it when games force lots of running around just to make it a longer game. I also didn't like the dungeons. It seemed to me like most of the changes were made just to lengthen the game.

The second game also featured a big emphasis on tedious grinding, since you had to train a large swarm of disposable Pikmin just so you could sacrifice them for White and Purple Pikmin.  Yeah, you had to do a little bit of grinding in the first game to get your army back in shape after a big boss fight or something, but nowhere NEAR to the extent it's required in Pikmin 2.  Combine grinding and randomly generated dungeons and you had a game I just couldn't get into.  And man, I wanted to get into it since it took me around 1 1/2 years to actually find a copy in retail back in the day.

GoldenPhoenixMarch 20, 2009

Correct me if I'm wrong, Brood, but it seems you don't really enjoy many games. ;)

In regards to this game I'll probably give it another shot though I know I will not love it because of the time limit, which is contrary to my play style of wanting to take my time and explore a world.

broodwarsMarch 20, 2009

Quote from: GoldenPhoenix

Correct me if I'm wrong, Brood, but it seems you don't really enjoy many games. ;)

In regards to this game I'll probably give it another shot though I know I will not love it because of the time limit, which is contrary to my play style of wanting to take my time and explore a world.

I just expect more than "mediocre" or "ok" from Miyamoto games.  You've just been unfortunate to see me posting when I feel like ranting, which considering the sad state of the Wii the past year has been disproportionately high.  You'll see me gush if we start seeing some real quality Adventure/RPG titles on Wii (which are my two favorite genres), like say...they don't completely Phantom Hourglass-ize the inevitable Wii Zelda, or the XSeed decides to bring over Arc Rise Fantasia and Fragile.  Or hell...Telltale Games decides to finally start working on Season 3 of Sam & Max and 2DBoy on World of Goo 2...and Capcom decides they actually do care about Wii.

TJ SpykeMarch 20, 2009

I wouldn't call Pikmin mediocre or just OK. Maybe if you hate RTS games, but otherwise no. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it's a good game.

What is up with the hate come people are getting fro Capcom all of a sudden? Other than the sloppy port of Dead Rising, they have done a great job so far.

Xseed announced way back at the Tokyo Game Show in October that Arc Rise Fantasia is coming out here sometime in 2009.

broodwarsMarch 20, 2009

Quote from: TJ

I wouldn't call Pikmin mediocre or just OK. Maybe if you hate RTS games, but otherwise no. I know everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it's a good game.

What is up with the hate come people are getting fro Capcom all of a sudden? Other than the sloppy port of Dead Rising, they have done a great job so far.

Xseed announced way back at the Tokyo Game Show in October that Arc Rise Fantasia is coming out here sometime in 2009.

Let's not drift off-topic in this topic about PIkmin 1 but...

1.  I didn't call the first Pikmin "mediocre or just Ok."  I called the second one that, and I actually love RTS games and really liked the first Pikmin game.  Pikmin 2 just has too many tedium-inducing elements that make it hard to care about anything in the game and keep me from enjoying what it does well.

2.  That's what they get when the most exciting thing they've announced in 2 years is an on-rails interpretation of the one game the Resident Evil fanbase all wanted redone in the RE4 style.  You don't get the love from the fans when you take all their cash and use it on projects for other systems.  Capcom was fantastic that first year, but they've been rather unexciting since.

3.  So Arc Rise Fantasis is coming to the US, eh?  Man, how'd I miss that?  Well, that's 1 of 2 games I want them to bring over (let's go, Fragile!).  :D

Mop it upMarch 20, 2009

Quote from: Halbred

No! Mop! The Wii version is only $30

But the GameCube version could be had for, like, $10. I know the Wii version seems to be better, but... I'm a cheapskate!

Quote from: pap64

The Wii version is far more forgiving, get this version instead.

How so? By the sound of things, being able to restart a day doesn't seem to be of much help.

Quote from: TJ

The problem is that if you don't use a guide you could end up wasting time getting one of the 5 non-needed parts.

Wait, you can't just collect any of the 25 out of 30 parts but rather there are 5 specific parts you don't need? That's not good...

Quote from: GoldenPhoenix

In regards to this game I'll probably give it another shot though I know I will not love it because of the time limit, which is contrary to my play style of wanting to take my time and explore a world.

Same here. However, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if you just take your time and explore the world not worrying about collecting anything, then after you discover how to traverse certain areas and have located most of the parts, you start over from the beginning and try to beat it from there?

GoldenPhoenixMarch 20, 2009

Quote:

Same here. However, perhaps it wouldn't be so bad if you just take your time and explore the world not worrying about collecting anything, then after you discover how to traverse certain areas and have located most of the parts, you start over from the beginning and try to beat it from there?

I see your point but I still don't like being rushed, that is one reason why I like but don't love games like Harvest Moon either. The day reset could help sooth the wounds a bit though.

StratosMarch 20, 2009

The non-essential parts are a bit harder to find. One of the non-essential parts is on the last boss level so it is out of the way.

Quote from: broodwars

Incidentally, I far prefer the original Pikmin to its extremely bloated and boring sequel (randomly-generated dungeon crawling 4 de boardum!).  The time limit gives a huge sense of urgency, as does Olimar's daily logs.

I agree completely.  Pikmin 1 is by far my favorite of the two, for exactly these reasons.

KDR_11kMarch 20, 2009

I recall reading about the NPC! version allowing you to rewind to specific days instead of starting over completely?

decoymanMarch 20, 2009

I have to somewhat agree w/ broodwars and Jonny... the first Pikmin was simply magical. That sort of magic doesn't happen often – Wind Waker is one of the few other games that gave me that same feeling.

But I disagree that Pikmin 2 was "mediocre or just Ok." It injected some neat new ideas into the equation, and I disagree about the grinding thing... maybe it's because I was always so careful with my Pikmin (they make you love them with their weird mix of loyalty and cuteness) – I was mad if even a few died on a boss fight, so I had TONS of excess Pikmin built up by the end.

Something I wanted to correct, about getting Pikmin back to Onions at the end of the day. You don't HAVE to get them back to the Onions  in order for them to be safe. All you have to do is have them under your control when the day ends. That means you can be clear across the map, but as long as you've called the Pikmin to you and they're following you, they'll be safe. I remember having awesomely exciting "leave no 'Min' behind" missions where I realized there was like one little guy who got left over on the other side of the map at the end of the day (each pikmin shows a little dot on the map)... I'd get my remaining Pikmin to safety, then run across the world, racing against nightfall, just to get to the little bugger right before time ran out... It was exhilarating, let me tell you. :)

Ian SaneMarch 20, 2009

I like Pikmin 2 better because I love exploring and without the time limit it encourages that more.  Though I actually would have preferred more areas like in the original Pikmin than all the caves.  If Pikmin 3 had the freedom of Pikmin 2 but had just more areas to explore instead of caves it would be fantastic.  I love both Pikmin games though and would consider both of them essential.

The 30 day limit can be frustrating but you have 30 parts to get in 30 days.  So just make certain to get at least a part a day.  If you can't then reset the day.  That's what I did and there was no fear that I would have to restart the whole game.  Resetting the day is really no different than dying and restarting a level in other games.

I find it really shocking that so few Nintendo fans have played the Pikmin games.  These were made by Miyamoto and did quite well in reviews.  Why wouldn't you have checked them out?  Is it because it wasn't an established franchise?  Are publishers actually right about that?

GoldenPhoenixMarch 20, 2009

Quote:

I find it really shocking that so few Nintendo fans have played the Pikmin games.  These were made by Miyamoto and did quite well in reviews.  Why wouldn't you have checked them out?  Is it because it wasn't an established franchise?  Are publishers actually right about that?

Yeah that is it, people hate games on Nintendo consoles that aren't established franchises like Animal Crossing, Professor Layton, Wii Sports, Wii Fit etc etc. Seriously the realistic explanation is that it was such as a strange game that may not appeal to most people.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterMarch 20, 2009

Golden and Mop: Play the game before deciding that the time limit will ruin your game.

Like we have said over and over again, the experience will differ from person to person and hell, the time limit might not be that big of a problem.

Mop: Read back what I said on the NPC Pikmin thread, you DON'T NEED to restart days.

In my honest opinion, I think both Golden and Mop are looking for excuses to not play the game because they fear the time limit WILL ruin the game.

Its understandable. Whenever a new experience rolls by it can be intimidating and start to wonder the worst. Hell, when I was younger I FEARED RPGs because the gameplay and the stats intimidating me, and I thought I would never get it or even enjoy them. But then I played Super Mario RPG, which is a basic RPG, and once I understood the concept of RPGs I enjoyed them and I stopped fearing them.

Not to sound condescending, but my nephew was 7 years old when he first played Pikmin. He was very young, still learning to play games and couldn't speak English. Yet, he understood the game, was NOT scared by the time limit and beat the game several times, even before the days were up. And he barely asked for my help.

If a young kid with no English skills could play Pikmin and enjoy it despite the time limit I think the two of you, experienced videogame playing adults, could have no problem. Just stop looking for excuses and play it.

GoldenPhoenixMarch 20, 2009

Quote:

Golden and Mop: Play the game before deciding that the time limit will ruin your game.

I freaken BOUGHT the game when it first came out. I KNOW the time limit ruined it as it has ruined every game I've ever played that gives you X amount of time to beat it. Not to mention it has nothing do with fear but being rushed through a game that is padded by a time limit to make it seem longer then it really is. It is a matter of what gameplay experiences you enjoy, and I find time limits to be the most artificially stupid way to extend the length of a game. With Pikmin I think I almost got to the end of the game and quit because I wasn't having fun being rushed through it to get the last few spaceship parts.

I don't like tomatoes either, doesn't mean I'm scared of them (except for the Killer Tomato kind)

decoymanMarch 20, 2009

I understand how a time limit in a game can make one feel sort of claustrophobic...

but I don't get the argument that a time limit makes a game longer, artificially or otherwise... ???

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterMarch 20, 2009

Quote from: GoldenPhoenix

Quote:

Golden and Mop: Play the game before deciding that the time limit will ruin your game.

I freaken BOUGHT the game when it first came out. I KNOW the time limit ruined it as it has ruined every game I've ever played that gives you X amount of time to beat it. Not to mention it has nothing do with fear but being rushed through a game that is padded by a time limit to make it seem longer then it really is. It is a matter of what gameplay experiences you enjoy, and I find time limits to be the most artificially stupid way to extend the length of a game. With Pikmin I think I almost got to the end of the game and quit because I wasn't having fun being rushed through it to get the last few spaceship parts.

I don't like tomatoes either, doesn't mean I'm scared of them (except for the Killer Tomato kind)

If you felt rushed it was because you wanted to feel rushed.

Both Majora's Mask and Pikmin are games that may have time restrictions but they are flexible enough that you can get the most out of each game before time runs out. I was able to beat the dungeons before the three days were up and it is possible to get all items in Pikmin before the days were up.

Pikmin is an exercise in strategy and critical thinking. It is certainly possible to manage time in your favor and that's where the game truly shines.

I think you hold strong memories of the mistakes you did the first time and never accepted the fact that the game could have been enjoyable despite the time limit.

I hate to force people to play new games, but considering I played the original game to death, saw my nephew play through it and learned strategies which made the game playing a breeze, the time limit excuse it silly.

Ian SaneMarch 20, 2009

I fully understand that games where you can permanently screw yourself and make the game unwinnable are intimidating.  Resident Evil's infamous limited saves is a big reason why I never really got into the series.  In Pikmin you can screw yourself.  I think it's a lot easier to avoid screwing yourself in Pikmin than in other games that can allow you to do that but still the issue remains.

Fortunately Pikmin 2 exists and has no such issue.  If your lone beef with Pikmin was the time limit than you really have no excuse to not play Pikmin 2.

Majora's Mask doesn't have the same issue though failing to finish a dungeon in time would be very frustrating.  You can't make Majora's Mask unwinnable.  Fire Emblem is a potential "screw yourself" game though.

roger6106March 20, 2009

The time limit never bothered me in Pikmin. In fact, it may have even improved the game.

I definitely agree with decoyman about the first game being magical. The music, the levels, and the journal entries at the end of the day all enhanced the mood of the game. I loved Olimar's ramblings about missing his family, etc. To me the second game seemed to be missing this.

StratosMarch 20, 2009

Quote from: decoyman

I understand how a time limit in a game can make one feel sort of claustrophobic...

but I don't get the argument that a time limit makes a game longer, artificially or otherwise... ???

Maybe it is because if you fail it takes twice as long to beat it? That's the only thing I can think of that GP is referring to.

I love going back and playing the first Pikmin, but I have yet to do so with the second other than playing multiplayer with my little sister. The first just feels better when I run through it again. Maybe I like it because it is an easy game to do a run through of in a short amount of time? Plus I am now waiting for Pikmin 2 NPC so that I can play it again that way.

KDR_11kMarch 20, 2009

So what about the day rewind feature, is that in?

The game basically saves your stats for every day, so you can go back to a previous day (at the "select a save file" menu) and restart from there. However, if you save your game after that, any previous progress will be saved over.

EXAMPLE: Let's say I was doing pretty well up until Day 10, and then things start going haywire. I don't accomplish crap for three days, then finally figure out what I'm supposed to be doing on Day 14. Next time I start up the game, I can choose to start from Day 10 again, and I'll know what to do, so things will go smoother.

Mop it upMarch 21, 2009

Quote:

I hate to force people to play new games, but the time limit excuse it silly.

That's not the only reason, it's when you combine that element with the game being a strategy game, which don't really interest me, nor are they anything I've ever had success with. The time limit was somewhat manageable in Majora's Mask because it was a type of game I was familiar with.

Quote from: pap64

If a young kid with no English skills could play Pikmin and enjoy it despite the time limit I think the two of you, experienced videogame playing adults, could have no problem.

Kids can learn anything faster than adults because their minds are still developing and they have no established mindset or comforts. Also, just because I have experience with games doesn't mean I have any amount of skill with them.

AdrockMarch 21, 2009

Quote from: Mop_it_up

But the GameCube version could be had for, like, $10. I know the Wii version seems to be better, but... I'm a cheapskate!

That's what I've been saying. While I'm not sure about Gamestop's policies, I know Game Crazy can special order the game from a different store, assuming at least one store in the entire company has a copy of the game and it's a request within reason (i.e. no special orders for Secret of Mana on SNES).

StratosMarch 21, 2009

Quote from: Adrock

Quote from: Mop_it_up

But the GameCube version could be had for, like, $10. I know the Wii version seems to be better, but... I'm a cheapskate!

That's what I've been saying. While I'm not sure about Gamestop's policies, I know Game Crazy can special order the game from a different store, assuming at least one store in the entire company has a copy of the game and it's a request within reason (i.e. no special orders for Secret of Mana on SNES).

I've never done it, but I have looked on GameStop's web site and they appeared to be able to check if a used game was in stock at a different store and you could have it sent to your preferred store if you wanted from what I understood.

That would be funny if people did try to special order games like Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana. There would be long and expensive wait lists.

Mop_it_up, if the word strategy game is concerning you because you don't like Warcraft and Star Craft then don't worry. There are very few direct comparisons between those core RTS games and Pikmin. Pikmin could better be considered an RTS for people who don't play RTS type games. It is very approachable and nowhere near the level of play style and complication that you would find in any game like the 'craft series or Warhammer or Battle for Middle Earth or C & C series. Think of it like a hands on ant farm simulator.

NWR_pap64Pedro Hernandez, Contributing WriterMarch 21, 2009

Quote from: pap64

If a young kid with no English skills could play Pikmin and enjoy it despite the time limit I think the two of you, experienced videogame playing adults, could have no problem.

Kids can learn anything faster than adults because their minds are still developing and they have no established mindset or comforts. Also, just because I have experience with games doesn't mean I have any amount of skill with them.

Mop it upMarch 21, 2009

I'm not questioning whether or not it is a great game, because I'm sure it is, I'm questioning whether or not it is a game for me. You're right though, I am looking for excuses because this game's been out for over seven years now and I'm trying to justify my never buying it before. It isn't working. I think the question has now become "which version should I get", though to answer that I just need to read a comparison and decide if the new features are worth paying for.

In any case, I apologize for any annoyance my indecisiveness has caused you.

AdrockMarch 21, 2009

Quote from: Stratos

That would be funny if people did try to special order games like Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana. There would be long and expensive wait lists.

You'd be surprised. Game Crazy gets the oddest requests.

Quote from: pap64

Excuses, excuses, excuses and more excuses. I know we are talking about a game, but I personally can't stand people who do nothing but say excuses just to get out of stuff....

...Just do whatever the hell you want.

Jeez, really? On a message board. Calm down, man.

Anyway, as for NPC Pikmin, I'll probably rent it since I didn't pick it up on Gamecube and it's free. The choice was simple: Super Smash Bros. Melee > Anything. I'm generally average to above average at videogames so I'm iffy on the whole time limit thing. Majora's Mask was a painfully easy game (that one side quest was a pain in the ass though), mostly because the time limit is barely one, especially if you devote the entire 3 days just trying to accomplish ONE thing. Pikmin never really interested me, but then again, I never played. I'm curious what the big deal is and it's one of the few Miyamoto games I haven't at least tried.

TJ SpykeMarch 21, 2009

Guys, lay of mop. It's OK if he is not interested in the game. While I think the game is great, I understand that not everybody will like every game. I do hope he will give the Wii version a chance, but it's no big deal if he doesn't.

TJ SpykeMarch 22, 2009

I just got the game at Wal-Mart. I haven't played it yet, but at least the box looks nice (the NPC art doesn't look as bad in person, but I still think I will flip it and use the normal boxart).

TJ SpykeMarch 22, 2009

I started playing the game today. My first 5 days were fine. I have gotten used to the controls, but I do miss the GameCube controller (moving Pikmin around with the C-Stick felt great). Graphics look about the same, but that is not a problem since the game still looks good today.

I also have already used the feature of re-playing a day. Day 6 was going fine until I was trying to get a ship part and ran into a whole group of Burrowing Snagrets and lost about 80 Pikmin (inlcuding most of my yellow Pikmin). That was un-acceptable, so I chose to go back.

I do agree with Jonny and Broodwars that the underground caves in Pikmin 2 were not much fun, but the overworld levels in Pikmin 2 are far superior to the ones in Pikmin 1, and there's more of them.  I like Pikmin 2 better than Pikmin 1 simply because there's MORE game to love.  Pikmin 1 holds a special place in my gaming library, and I'll always be very fond of it, but Pikmin 2 is one of the very very few video games that I've ever played 100% through TWICE.  And yes, there can be a bit of grinding if you want to 100% the game, but the game is so much fun to play, that this didn't bother me at all. 

Anyone who hasn't tried to play any of the Pikmin games yet, I would seriously suggest trying the series out.  It's one of my favorite Nintendo franchises.

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Wii de Asobu Pikmin Box Art

Genre Strategy
Developer Nintendo
Players1
Controllers

Worldwide Releases

na: New Play Control! Pikmin
Release Mar 09, 2009
PublisherNintendo
RatingEveryone
jpn: Wii de Asobu Pikmin
Release Dec 25, 2008
PublisherNintendo
RatingAll Ages
eu: New Play Control! Pikmin
Release Feb 06, 2009
PublisherNintendo
Rating3+
aus: New Play Control! Pikmin
Release Feb 26, 2009
PublisherNintendo
RatingParental Guidance
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