Topic: "The Trouble With Nintendo"

[Berny]

Well, SSBM was CLOSE to launch...it made the pre–Christmas rush. But yeah, they coulda done better.

Next round though, things will be very different. First, DVD playing will not be necessary. Ask you neighbor if he has a DVD player. He will have either a PS2, a computer that plays DVDs or, (dare I say it) an ACTUAL DVD player. (OMG!!! ) Also, that fabled generation of consoles in which "graphics don't matter" draws closer every day. Also, Ninty has learned the importance of a good lookin' piece of hardware; if there is an Indigo NES V, I will personally paint black every Indigo NES V that a PGC forum user buys. Finally, Ninty will have an excellent library at launch or so I hope. We've not heard anything of Too Human of late and it is pretty much set in stone that it will not be coming to the GCN, leaving two options: either its been scrapped or it is on NES V. That alone will hook the now vital mature audience. hopefully we'll get one with a Nintendo mascot, too. Mario 64 did wonders for its console.

That's about all I have to say on the matter.

[Rich]

Guys I'm sorry but I simply don't want online at all, half the reason I love multiplayer games is because its a great way to be with my friends. Honestly i cant imagin having that much fun play SSB:M online. Being seperated would just kill the joy for me.

[Hostile Creation]

My philosophy exactly.  I don't want to play any game with a bunch of pimply, annoying nerds that live thousands of miles away from me.  Where's the fun in that.

No offense to any of you, of course

[mouse_clicker]

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My philosophy exactly. I don't want to play any game with a bunch of pimply, annoying nerds that live thousands of miles away from me.

As opposed to a bunch of pimply, annoying nerds that are sitting in the same room.

[Ian Sane]

"Honestly i cant imagin having that much fun play SSB:M online. Being seperated would just kill the joy for me."

You know you could still, I don't know, play the game with your friends in the same room.  SSB:M online would still have four player multiplayer but it would also have online multiplayer for those that want to use it.  I know I wouldn't mind playing with some of you guys online.  I would also use it to play with my close friends more since they're not at my house all the time.

I really hate it when people use "well I'm not interested in online" as a valid excuse for Nintendo not going in that direction.  Who cares if you're not interested?  Some people are so in the future that option should be there.  Just because a game has online support doesn't mean that you have to use it or that it will ruin the game.

[Hostile Creation]

I admit, it would be cool to try my hand against some of you in Super Smash Brothers, but I'd know who you are, and I've talked to most of you quite extensively.  I won't deny that there are uses (making fun of people via internet will always be a nice past-time) to online gaming, but as a gaming experience, I am not interested for the most part.  You people are the only exception, and I probably wouldn't even want to be playing with all of the people on this board.  Just those of you that I know fairly well and like.

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As opposed to a bunch of pimply, annoying nerds that are sitting in the same room.

Exactly.  I like to be able to see their pimples and know that they exist while I play with them.

[KnowsNothing]

how many times do I have to tell all of you?  it's not a pimple!  It's a giant....scab.....yeah...

I'd like to play online with anybody BUT you guys because I don't want any of you finding out how bad I suck, 'mkay?

[mouse_clicker]

Sad to see even PGC is getting in on the Nintendo's going down wave- am I the only one who actually had the foresight to write something different?

[jaz013]

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Originally posted by: mouse_clicker
Sad to see even PGC is getting in on the Nintendo's going down wave- am I the only one who actually had the foresight to write something different?

Sadly, bashing is always easier, it doesn't matter if the one you are ramping againts it's in firts or last place. Besides, you can always come with the hipocrital face of "I knew they'll do well, really". Faith, pals, it's all you need (even when I don't take it anymore).

[KnowsNothing]

NINTENDO IS TEH SUXXOR

GAMECUBE MORE LIKE GHEYCUBE LOL HRHHRHRH

[Berny]

Well mouse, I finally read your editorial and all I can say is I agree with you wholeheartedly. I hope they post your editorial too.

[Kyosho]

Is it always a crime to look down on Nintendo in situations like this? Numbers, stats, sales, people, publicity, etc. are depicting Nintendo in a negative way DESPITE whatever pros you guys have to offer.  If a Nintendo fan has something to complain about, then the whole thing about Nintendo appealing to Nintendo fans + more is downright hypocritical.  

[mouse_clicker]

Kyosoho, have you even LOOKED at those stats you claim are painting Nintendo in a negative light? Do your research before you make a claim like that- sales in general, be they hardware or software, are WAY up. I find it odd you can come in here and disprove my entire 1,000+ word post simply by saying it's wrong, citing no facts, and then muttering something about hypocrites. Do you have any idea what we're even talking about?

[Berny]

Some people were saying that they don't want to play games with a bunch of weirdo strangers. Well I have at least 2 people whom I know who would love to play online with me. But I don't have a broadband adapter so it looks like that won't be happening.

[Shift Key]

Time to ramble on:

1. The GCN has done well, but it needs to do more to win back fans.
I consider three games to be the best work that Nintendo has put out. Mario 64 and Zelda: OoT were the best games of the last era, and I also add Metroid Prime to that group from the current era. I consider these games to be great because they pushed Nintendo's franchises to new heights, which are still hard to match. The jump to 3D gaming is certainly memorable, and I spent much of my days playing OoT and SM64. MP is a personal favourite, because I know some people don't consider it as a classic, but compared to Super Metroid, I'd say they did great things with it.

I agree that the third party situation is not as successful, probably better than the N64 days, but that doesn't matter to me. I don't like sports games on consoles. The last one I owned was NBA Live 98 on the N64, so it's not significant to me.

2. Advertising and slight images changes will bring success next time around. I guarantee a launch colour that isn't purple will sell more systems! *shudders*

3. I have Manhunt. I DIDN'T buy it for the violence. I bought it because the reviews painted it as a game where the world is out to kill you, and you need to use anything available to hunt them, such as wits, patiences, opportunity and luck. Those things make it a great game, and the people who want violence can also have that too.

4. Online? No, I don't see this as the next big thing. You might have unlimited broadband access now, but the rest of the world doesn't. Does that mean its cool to be on 512K? Of course not.
Not everyone wants to play RPGs online, despite what Square says. I can see more LAN-style games being developed, so that more players can be active at the same time, like the MK DD LAN feature. My main reason of thinking is that ping times can be minimised when the consoles are directly connected, sharing processing power and information to keep up with the advances in game design. It also would allow for more styles of games to be supported, not just MMORPGs. I'm not going to discuss how it could be used, because I'm not making the games

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why are we singling out Nintendo when their games are still leagues ahead of everybody else's?

*raises hand* Because everyone is so damn critical of Nintendo's games! They have a reputation to keep, and every time they do something out of the ordinary, the media and other commentators go crazy, like sharks to a bloody corpse.

[Kyosho]

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Kyosoho, have you even LOOKED at those stats you claim are painting Nintendo in a negative light? Do your research before you make a claim like that- sales in general, be they hardware or software, are WAY up. I find it odd you can come in here and disprove my entire 1,000+ word post simply by saying it's wrong, citing no facts, and then muttering something about hypocrites. Do you have any idea what we're even talking about?

Not saying your 1000+ word post is wrong, I am just saying you consider Nintendo's positives higher weight than Nintendo's negatives.  Their sales have INCREASED, but for dear sakes, have you looked at why they increased? I bet you one of the reasons (in the US specifically) was due to Nintendo dropping the GCN to 99$ to get rid of inventory.  There are probably other reasons such as Mario Kart DD, etc, but the 99$ drop seems to hold much more weight in that regard when I look at the average gamer's reaction.  

For those people/media that I'm talkin about, I don't look at their accusations as being wrong.  I look at the reasons behind their accusations as they explain what Nintendo is not addressing properly in their image/games.  

[mouse_clicker]

I ddin't say the increases were high- I don't recall saying they were high at all. I DO recall saying they were high enough. As for Nintendo's games and image, that's what this whole editorial is about. You've read it, right?

BTW, that price drop is what we in the biz like to call "strategy".  

[Kyosho]

Look at this line

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Do your research before you make a claim like that- sales in general, be they hardware or software, are WAY up

Nintendo's "strategy" - get rid of inventory

My opinion on the reasons for their "strategy" - Nintendo experiencing poor sales resulting in inventory not moving quick enough.  

Further analyzation - System/software sales were far from expected/hoped.  Nintendo experiencing heat from the media.  

SO yes it's a strategy, that's quite obvious.  But I look at the reasons more so behind their strategy for further explanations than just looking at it concretely.

As for the editorial, I had to go back and read it just now because your opinions outside the editorial appear to be largely PRO-nintendo and not much from a neutral perspective.  For almost every CON that is said about Nintendo, you attempt to refute it.

[mouse_clicker]

Oky, I said they were way up- I hold by that comment and not the one I mae in the post right above yours, becausee they ARE way up. I believe for the week of the price drop Gamecube sales quadrupled, and the Gamecube nearly outsold the PS2 in the US for the month of November, and completely crushed the XBox. Nintendo didn't have to drop the price- the Gamecube was still outselling the XBox worldwide and wasn't far behind in the US specifically, and Nintendo was still making a nice profit. They dropped the price because they knew Sony didn't care enough or want to to lose the money on a price drop, and that Microsoft physically could not match it. Son, that's what's called good business.

As for your last paragraph, I have no idea what you're trying to say, that I think Nintendo's perfect? Far from it- I've stated as such in this thread myself. Since you're so good at finding quotes, find some of them.

[Kyosho]

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I have no idea what you're trying to say, that I think Nintendo's perfect?

I am saying despite almost every problem people point out, you and others try to refute that argument in favor of Nintendo.  Never said you thought Nintendo's perfect.  Perhaps it's your optimistic view on the whole situation.  

Here are some random quotes you've put up:

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Who says Nintendo is the loser? I think you completely missed the point of my editorial- what I was trying to say is that who cares if Nintendo isn't the sales leader? They still sell well enough to keep them going and continue to reward their fans with incredibly good games

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yes, I agree that Nintendo isn't the most supportive of them, but they HAVE adressed the issue and DO plan to change. And in any case, it's the third parties that are unwilling to change to get sales on Nintendo consoles

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thought you'd say this, but I also thought you'd realise why it as irrelevant- I'm not saying Nintendo SHOULDN'T be the sales leader, but I see it more as a bonus than a necessity, because I have all I could ever need or want from Nintendo with them being in a strong but distance second

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And Nintendo is not a dickhead to 3rd parties- they're not angels, either, but don't exaggerate

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Any better Nintendo gets is just icing on the cake.

It goes on and on.

[mouse_clicker]

Kyosho, I have to say, you're really confusing me. So you're saying I'm being optimistic? Well, that's nothing to debate about- this whole thread has been optimists debating with the pessimists. Are you trying to prove anything else?

[Hostile Creation]

Aha, quotes prove your point I bet.  I am convinced that you are right because you took what MC said (out of context, too) and said it again.  Yup.

What's that quote I've seen on adult swim?  Something like: Fondness of quotation facilitates thought.  Or something.

[Shadow Fox]

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Originally posted by: Kyosho
I bet you one of the reasons (in the US specifically) was due to Nintendo dropping the GCN to 99$ to get rid of inventory.

Be glad you didn't bet- else you'd owe mouse_clicker some serious ducats.

Nintendo RESTARTED GCN production some TWO MONTHS before a price drop was announced- so obviously Nintendo "cleared inventory" well before then (think July/August).

So not only did they "clear inventory" WITHOUT the price drop, they are also selling MORE GCN's directly from retailers- four times more.

And to think, even at $99, NCL STILL MAKES A PROFIT on every console sold.  Now where does that leave Microsoft?  I can tell you:

-There is a profit LOSS on every console purchased
-The console is 3rd in sales globally
-Software sales are last from 1st parties
-XboxLive only accounts for 500k+ of some 9.4 million Xbox owners

What Xbox game outsold GTA:VC in the number of preorders sold (a Guinness Book Record previously held by an earlier Zelda- Ocarina of Time)?  What Xbox game topped 500k in TWO weeks like Mario Kart in the US (and already has 1 million globally)?  Why have only 4 Xbox games sold over a million copies worldwide?

Damn Nintendo's troubles; "The power of "X"" got some serious issues.  Keep in mind that while this is a Microsoft product, it runs off of Microsoft Games Studios' budget, and not Bill Gates' or Microsoft Windows'.

Sorry for ranting, but the "downward spiral" of BOTH consoles need to be seen on BOTH sides.

-Official Ninja of PGC  

[mouse_clicker]

Exactly, Shadow- the only reason Nintendo's being hounded is because it's known it'll cause a stir. Yet Microsoft is doing much worse, and we honestly want Nintendo to be more like them? I find that very odd.

Also, Mario Kart sold 500,000 copies in 2 weeks? Damn, I didn't know that.

[The Omen]

As far as i can tell, from a business prespective, Nintendo are head and shoulders above their competitors.  People like to dump on Nintendo because its fashionable to do so.  As for me, even with the problems i have with their advertising, lack of aggressiveness in 3rd party relations, {though Nintendo is changing}etc...i just see to much that is good to ever doubt them.