Author Topic: "The Trouble With Nintendo" (Read 43628 times)

nolimit19 · « **Reply #75 on:** December 22, 2003, 05:09:44 AM »

From: Dec 8 - Dec 14, 2003
System     Sales this week    Total Sales in 2003
PlayStation 2     116,400    2,645,500
GameCube     53,600    777,600
GameBoy Advance SP     51,900    2,046,700
Xbox      2,600     96,000

same old story in japan. nintendo is whooping xbox, but ps2 is whipping gc.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #76 on:** December 22, 2003, 07:08:39 AM »

That depends on your definition of improve, Mario- I don't think I'll find any game better than Ocarina of Time or Super Mario 64, but that's just two games. I consider it an improvement that Nintendo has released far more games that perhaps aren't quite as good as those two titles.

Nolimit: I'm not sure why you're posting sales figures here- that's not what this thread is about.

Smashman · « **Reply #77 on:** December 22, 2003, 09:11:53 AM »

OOT is already re-released on GCN, but I prefer WW anyway. I personally think SMS is superior to SM64, but that is only my opinion.

N64 was OK, and had some memorable games, but Nintendo is really shaping up with GCN and really pumping some quality out, surpassing N64 in each of their franchises. GCN is now tied, with SNES, as my favorite system, and then Sega Genesis, then NES, then the rest!

Kyosho · « **Reply #78 on:** December 22, 2003, 10:36:20 AM »

Each system usually has their system defining games. For Gamecube, TWW and Metroid , imo, define the system. I think Nintendo is doing a good job overall in their 1st party games. I haven't really been utterly disgusted with any of them EXCEPT for Mario Kart DD which I think was a waste of 50$. Imho, in order for Nintendo to improve, they need to get more 3rd party support. Capcom, Namco, Sega, etc, are not enough. Every month I look at the release list, and it's just too easy to pick a game from the rest to buy. I like having more than 1 choice per month for a quality game.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #79 on:** December 22, 2003, 10:42:37 AM »

Well, would you rather not having ANY good games to choose from? That's the way I've been with my PS2 since May.

Also, 12 great games a year is more than almost any console can claim.

Radical · « **Reply #80 on:** December 22, 2003, 02:41:39 PM »

There is a problem with nintendo though. I will use the classic Zelda/"celda" debate here because I think it succintly illustrates it.

At SW2k, the next-gen zelda was shown (a short clip) and it was cool- people were saying that you would buy GCN JUST FOR THIS GAME. Then WW came out. Now, while probably everyone here loves it, the idea is that:

If everyone said it was so super cool back then, why change it? Nintendo just alienated non-hardcore fans. I am not disputing whether the game was good or not (WW), im saying that nintendo could of released something that we AND the general public would both RUSH OUT to buy.

This is the same with MANY franchises (ie. SF:A). Also, the lack of an online strategy hurt nintendo. It didn't even have to be that much- just a simple sort of online play on gamespy or something would of been sufficent. I mean there are some people blessing MK

D, but for what? LAN play? It's a joke. I bought my BBA, and I can't use it for a damn thing! What happened to all the nintendo franchises, the KILLER HITS NO OTHER COMPANY COULD COMPETE WITH. If nintendo loses the "prestige" of these franchises (ie. say starfox or mario are not respected and cool anymore, or god forbid zelda) then they will slowly die (they have no one up.) HOWEVER, having TOP QUALITY franchises will make nintendo EASILY DESTROY any other company (its like having 10 killer apps.)

Nintendo needs to make GOOD franchises, things that are SO GOOD, PEOPLE WILL PURCHASE A CUBE FOR THAT GAME ALONE. Also, they need to offer some sort of online support, even if it is some crappy free thing like gamespy, or something the equivalent of blizzards "battle.net" server, where they play matchmaker. (costs very little.)

im out

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #81 on:** December 22, 2003, 02:48:23 PM »

Bleck. :/

nolimit19 · « **Reply #82 on:** December 22, 2003, 02:56:47 PM »

well indirectly the thread is about sales. nintendo is absolutely destroying the xbox in japan right now...i just wanted to point that out. i think the key to nintendos success is not killing themselves. they just need a good, smart launch with lots of advertising and nintendo will be fine.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #83 on:** December 22, 2003, 03:01:50 PM »

Oh, I completely agree- one thing I think Nintendo really needs to work on is their launch. The N64's launch is perhaps the worst for a console ever. Luckily Nintendo knows they need to get dev kits out to more 3rd parties earlier, so hopefully that will translate into a more varied launch next time around. Not being 1-2 years behind is also a good strategy.

Press Start · « **Reply #84 on:** December 22, 2003, 03:10:46 PM »

"Gah, am I typing in French here? What I MEANT was that Nintendo is certainly not doing bad with their current 3rd party support, and they've still creating the great games they have been for decades now. I know it'd be better IF they had more 3rd party support, but what I'm trying to say is they'renot bad off without it."

I picked this out midway through reading the whole of this dicussion, and from my point of view, it's true. I'm an Xbox owner, i love the damn thing, and despite what some people in here are saying, online is great. I mean if you had the choice to play all your fave GC games online, with Nintendo fans across the world, everyone in here would. The rubbishing of online going on in this topic and others on this forum is simply because the Gamecube doesnt have it yet. HOWEVER...what the Xbox, and PS2 don't have is the Rock solid 1st party quality the Nintendo has. I got GC for that reason only, the Nintendo titles, and a few Sega ones. But mainly Nintendo ones, no matter what system i have, i'm not gonna get the feeling that takes me back to when i used to play games for fun, Nintendos image is more FUN than kiddie to me. Dont have a PS2 only an xbox, so third party titles on GC don't interest me. The GC's sole strength in my humble 17 yrs of gamings opinion...is the fact that it's Nintendo, and that means a cetain type of game, and game quality most people are always gonna buy a nintendo system for. Maybe moreso for older gamers ironically, purely for the sweet nostalgic feeling seeing the nintendo logo on y screen, or seeing Mario gives. Plus the new price drop is extremely attractive, i never bothered getting one before, because the xbox for the most part satifies my gaming needs, but theres always gonna be the hole there, of not having no nintendo style games on it...thus i now have one. A little blindly, the only games i really know are the bigger nintendo ones (Double Dash, Mario Sunshine, Pikmin..err), havent had a nintendo system since SNES, so it's a brand new time of gaming for me cos i know a lot of good stuffs already out there. Still not exacly sure what tho, but i'll find it.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #85 on:** December 22, 2003, 03:17:09 PM »

No, Press Start, online gaming quite simply isn't profitable. The Xbox is touted AS an online console- they say it in all of their commercials now, MS is constantly pushing it, there's tons of support for XBox Live, and you know how many subscribers there are? 500,000, less than a 20th of the total number of XBox owners out there. And the PS2's online system has done even worse. I'll admit it would be nice to play some GC games online, but I'd rather not pay for it, and I CERTAINLY don't want Nintendo losing money simply to please a select group of snobs who think whatever THEY want Nintendo has to give them. I am glad you recognize Nintendo's talent, and that seperates you from the thousands of Nintendo bashers out there, but online gaming is something that's not going to be worth it for quite some time.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #86 on:** December 22, 2003, 03:24:56 PM »

yea nintendo is hella smart in that sense. everyone thought they were crazy to not commit to online game. nintendo is just laughing now. xbox wanted 10 million subscribers to xbox live....they have barely sold that many consoles.

Press Start · « **Reply #87 on:** December 22, 2003, 03:46:57 PM »

Even though the Dreamcast had a go, online console gaming has only just begun. So low numbers don't surprise me. I still do think it's going to be a huuge advantage for Nintendo in the future. To have the sweet Nintendo only games that everyone wants, as well as Online play with them. Online Mario Kart? Come on. But it could be argued for now, the Gamecube doesnt need online play, as it's all only just started for consoles, and Nintendos strength as the best existing game developer can stand strong without online gaming having to support it. But, like the move from Cart to disc, it is going to have to catch up soon. But it's own games are SO strong, perhaps the online thing isn't essential right now no. On another point, i also think Nintendo should keep their style, as thats what makes them. I wouldnt have bothered picking a GC up if it wasn't for how they make their games. Why be the same as everyone else? Nintendo are still kind of old school with their approach to games. Not graphically, but gameplay wise, and i like that. We all need a break sometimes from harder stuff. These are GAMES after all.

joshnickerson · « **Reply #88 on:** December 22, 2003, 03:59:01 PM »

On-line gaming isn't that important this generation, and maybe not even next generation. The only ones whining about it are these ignorant gamers who are still playing on their free Xbox Live subscription and IGNCube (who seem to whine about it on an HOURLY basis...)
I honestly would like to see what percentage of people on Xbox Live are using the "free subscription" deal and which one are actually PAYING for it.

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #89 on:** December 22, 2003, 04:28:53 PM »

I do agree that online gaming will become big in the future, but that doesn't mean Nintendo needs to waste money researching it now- they'll get in on the action when the time is ripe. Remember, Nintendo has had more experience with online networks than anyone else.

Kyosho · « **Reply #90 on:** December 22, 2003, 07:00:25 PM »

Quote
Remember, Nintendo has had more experience with online networks than anyone else

please explain

mouse_clicker · « **Reply #91 on:** December 22, 2003, 07:08:05 PM »

Every Nintendo home console ever made has gone online- the Famicom in Japan, the Super Famicom in Japan with it's satellite linkup (you could play the original LoZ with new dungeons added every week- Radical Dreams, referenced a lot in Chrono Cross, was an online SNES game from Square), the N64 with Radnet through the 64DD in Japan, and most recently with the Gamecube when PSO was released. None were very popular at all, which is probably why Nintendo isn't embracing online play this generation.

SpeeDz · « **Reply #92 on:** December 22, 2003, 07:48:07 PM »

The advantage with first party games and the fact that they have no online play, can be a good thing let alone a badthing. Most Nintendo gamers, compared to sony and microsoft gamers, know more about the games before they buy it, if the game is good but short then rent it, if its a nice lone zelda game buy it, How can gamers play zelda and mario online? SSBM would be fun online but whose willing to pay just to kick someones ass online when u can do it to ur friends or neighbours. Xbox live is doing poorly, ps2 online is also doing poorly, the only good console online is xbconnect for xbox and thats free but it lags a lot and u can only get good pings with ppl who are near you, Nintendo games dont need to be online, they have things that microsoft and sony cant match, Quality gameplay Gamecube has the most exclusive quality games than any other console, ps2 has few good series the final fantasies but now their on gamecube and they had the gta's but thats also moved, Nintendo is smart, if they sell alot of gamecubes people will need games and a memory card making them make $$ right there, Nintendo's series rarely have an failures the Zelda series had majora's mask and the mario series had mario's time machine and mario is missing but thats 3 games out of 100. Nintendo has the best quality games and thats a proven fact

KDR_11k · « **Reply #93 on:** December 22, 2003, 10:18:25 PM »

NoA (George Harrisson or what he's called) has stated Nintendo will offer online play next generation. Maybe online play is the future and coming, but it'll be some time until it gets really large, so there's no need to hurry into that market with a badly thought out/unprofitable structure. Maybe in five years online will be the main usage for consoles, but that's still enough time to sit back, wait and devise a method to make online gaming profitable. Rushing is the worst that can happen to any product and is even moreso when the product will be on sale for many years. Online services cannot be easily shut down, if they are unprofitable they will remain like that for years to come. That's the gamble with (MM)Online services.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #94 on:** December 23, 2003, 11:26:56 AM »

i didnt know they had gone online EVERY generation...

Shadow Fox · « **Reply #95 on:** December 23, 2003, 01:26:00 PM »

Quote
Originally posted by: nolimit19
i didnt know they had gone online EVERY generation...

Well, barring the Virtual Boy, but that was a portable (or marketed as one, anyways)...

At any rate, mouse_clicker, you definately made a statement in this thread that was very profound, and again something that Nintendo fans (or just hardcore gamers in general) have always noticed about NCL and the 3rd-party situation that mainstream media and gamers are clueless about...

Somebody please spam this thread to every site you can think of...the days of people buying a PS2 or Xbox solely for Madden must end...

-Official Ninja of PGC

Ian Sane · « **Reply #96 on:** December 23, 2003, 01:39:08 PM »

"one thing I think Nintendo really needs to work on is their launch. The N64's launch is perhaps the worst for a console ever."

Well the N64 had one of the best games of all time as a launch title so I thought it was pretty good. I think the Cube's was the worst one ever, for a Nintendo console at least. I mean Luigi's Mansion? There's going to be a six month drought after launch and the big launch game they give us can be beaten in a weekend and has no replay value. Who's the moron who planned that out?

However I agree that a good launch is something Nintendo needs to work on. Personally I think the crappy Cube launch is the main reason why it never really sold well until the price cut. They will have the advantage this time that since they plan on launching with the other consoles they don't have to compete with a year's worth of games. The existing PS2 lineup really hurt the Cube launch. However they have to make sure they have both a variety of titles for launch (multiple genres, "kiddy" and "mature" titles) and have at least one big killer app that can last people through any potential droughts ie: a big Mario launch title. The Xbox had the same drought the Cube had in it's first few months but it didn't matter because it had Halo, which is still one of the big Xbox sellers, to make up for it. Nintendo has to make sure that the next console has something at launch with that type of staying power.

Hostile Creation · « **Reply #97 on:** December 23, 2003, 01:44:02 PM »

Quote
I mean if you had the choice to play all your fave GC games online, with Nintendo fans across the world, everyone in here would.

If it were free, sure. But only for making fun of the other people on it. That is fun. Otherwise I'll play alone or with my friends, who are much cooler than the rest of the world anyway.

Mario · « **Reply #98 on:** December 23, 2003, 01:46:54 PM »

I thought Luigi's Mansion had excellent replay value, and one of the reasons why is because it was short, and not dragged out. I've finished it 7 times now. It's no Super Mario 64, but was certainly good enough to keep me busy until SSBM and Pikmin arrived a few weeks later.

nolimit19 · « **Reply #99 on:** December 23, 2003, 02:39:17 PM »

yea i tend to agree that the gamecubes launch was pretty horrible....for one it launched in purple..and no matter how much i think that shouldnt matter, it did. the fact that it didnt have a dvd player also hurt it. and on top of it all, it really didnt have a good game at launch.

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Author Topic: "The Trouble With Nintendo" (Read 43628 times)